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Glasgow Hibee
25-03-2012, 04:24 PM
I've blamed managers, various "poor" players over the years, I even thought at one point that one or two long serving players were somehow poisoning the moral of the others. But after a bunch of different managers and complete changes of playing staff we still seem to have a malaise within the club which manifests as a lack of passion and effort by the players.

I've run out of ideas...what is it that is has dragged capable people down when they have come to this club in the last few years?

son of haggart
25-03-2012, 04:28 PM
I've blamed managers, various "poor" players over the years, I even thought at one point that one or two long serving players were somehow poisoning the moral of the others. But after a bunch of different managers and complete changes of playing staff we still seem to have a malaise within the club which manifests as a lack of passion and effort by the players.

I've run out of ideas...what is it that is has dragged capable people down when they have come to this club in the last few years?

Bad luck + wage cap/ short term contracts - the latter two leading to a failure to build a core of high quality medium/long term playing staff

Matt92
25-03-2012, 04:33 PM
In terms of playing staff, looking at United etc, it seems from where I am sitting what we are missing is pace/skill. Griffiths is fast and Kujabi can give you a good run but it seems players like Ozzy, Claros, Doherty, Gaz, Hanlon etc are too slow.
Meanwhile teams like Celtic, Dundee, Hearts and Killie all have quick nimble players who can turn a team inside out in one swift movement whereas we can't. It is something we have struggled with for a wee while now.

Oh and we also lack a gut/heart with the exception of Griffiths, Lewis and McPake.

Glasgow Hibee
25-03-2012, 04:34 PM
Bad luck + wage cap/ short term contracts - the latter two leading to a failure to build a core of high quality medium/long term playing staff

I'm hoping it's just a run of bad luck and that moral and effort will return but we've had a few bright patches in the gloom over the past few years but they always seem to get snuffed out and we go back to a worse place than before.

I don't know about how our wages bill compares but I doubt it's much worse than many other clubs we compete with. Maybe short term contracts are a factor in not making the players think they have much invested in the club and we certainly have more than I ever remember right now, but has that been the case for the last few years ?

Glasgow Hibee
25-03-2012, 04:38 PM
In terms of playing staff, looking at United etc, it seems from where I am sitting what we are missing is pace/skill. Griffiths is fast and Kujabi can give you a good run but it seems players like Ozzy, Claros, Doherty, Gaz, Hanlon etc are too slow.
Meanwhile teams like Celtic, Dundee, Hearts and Killie all have quick nimble players who can turn a team inside out in one swift movement whereas we can't. It is something we have struggled with for a wee while now.

Oh and we also lack a gut/heart with the exception of Griffiths, Lewis and McPake.

I agree pace is an issue and has been for a while but if it was that simple I can't believe that so many different managers would not have realised and done something about it

And your right a lack of gut/heart is, imo, the crux of the problem but the question is WHY is there that lack of gut/heart ?

son of haggart
25-03-2012, 04:39 PM
I'm hoping it's just a run of bad luck and that moral and effort will return but we've had a few bright patches in the gloom over the past few years but they always seem to get snuffed out and we go back to a worse place than before.

I don't know about how our wages bill compares but I doubt it's much worse than many other clubs we compete with. Maybe short term contracts are a factor in not making the players think they have much invested in the club and we certainly have more than I ever remember right now, but has that been the case for the last few years ?

I believe hibs operated a salaries ceiling for some time (not sure if it still applies). I agree your overall wages bill is medium/high but I don't think you have a few high earners who have a longer term leadership role like Webster and (allegedly) Zaliukas have for us. Most other SPL teams have a smattering of 'old heads' who they build around. Hibs had Murray, Bamba and prior to that Jones but now I wouldn't know who to name in that category in the central area.

HibbyAndy
25-03-2012, 04:39 PM
In a word 'Qaulity'.


We have to many 'qauntity' players.



BTW Total change of subject, Newcastle fans singing 'He scores when he wants' to Cisse...Totally and utterly chored of Arsenal for Van Persie.

Halifaxhibby
25-03-2012, 04:39 PM
Time to start demanding answers from the likes of RP and SL, they're incapable of appointing a manager who can deliver results for us. Petrie is a money man, he's trying to unearth another Mowbray( someone who he can punt on in a couple of years at a profit) unfortunately til he finds one we all have to suffer the embarrasing performances and league positions til he does.

Where are all the good youth players that usually come through the ranks?, seems to me that since the state of the art training facilities have been built we have become less fit, skillful and the average player doesn't look at all motivated.

Worrying times ahead folks, I see no end to this in the near future.

:confused::confused::confused::confused::confused: :confused::confused::confused:

GGTTH
FTHMFC

Glasgow Hibee
25-03-2012, 04:43 PM
Time to start demanding answers from the likes of RP and SL, they're incapable of appointing a manager who can deliver results for us. Petrie is a money man, he's trying to unearth another Mowbray( someone who he can punt on in a couple of years at a profit) unfortunately til he finds one we all have to suffer the embarrasing performances and league positions til he does.

Where are all the good youth players that usually come through the ranks?, seems to me that since the state of the art training facilities have been built we have become less fit, skillful and the average player doesn't look at all motivated.

Worrying times ahead folks, I see no end to this in the near future.

:confused::confused::confused::confused::confused: :confused::confused::confused:

GGTTH
FTHMFC


You seem about as depressed as me....:agree:

Glasgow Hibee
25-03-2012, 04:46 PM
I believe hibs operated a salaries ceiling for some time (not sure if it still applies). I agree your overall wages bill is medium/high but I don't think you have a few high earners who have a longer term leadership role like Webster and (allegedly) Zaliukas have for us. Most other SPL teams have a smattering of 'old heads' who they build around. Hibs had Murray, Bamba and prior to that Jones but now I wouldn't know who to name in that category in the central area.

Sounds sensible. Certainly on the park we have been missing "leadership" for some time in my opinion. Maybe that also applies to the dressing room, training, etc

Maybe an outsiders point of view is what's needed here. Thanks for the input.

matty_f
25-03-2012, 06:17 PM
I think that the routine and wholesale changes at the club have had a hugely damaging effect on the club. I don't know if it's accurate to say that there's a bad culture at the club. I think there is virtually no culture at the club.

I agree that we need some senior pros in the side, but they have to be the right senior pros. Yogi tried Hart and De Graff and they added to the problems rather than helping with them.

We haven't had a team in the way that United, Killie, Motherwell etc have had, since probably Mixu's time at the club. Unfortunately he came when the last of Mowbray's side were making it known they wanted to go, and Mixu wasn't able to find players that were the right fit for the club and cracks started becoming harder to paper over. Yogi brought some good players to the team but lost Jones who was probably the last really influential player we had. Since then we've churned players at an alarming rate and have failed to have even as few as two or three key players to help the management team set standards at the club and create the right culture. Maybe we can keep someone like McPake who appears to have the right attitude and then bring another few to the club for a couple of years and actually build a team, then we'll be able to stop looking for who to blame for it all.

stanton_4
25-03-2012, 06:28 PM
I believe hibs operated a salaries ceiling for some time (not sure if it still applies). I agree your overall wages bill is medium/high but I don't think you have a few high earners who have a longer term leadership role like Webster and (allegedly) Zaliukas have for us. Most other SPL teams have a smattering of 'old heads' who they build around. Hibs had Murray, Bamba and prior to that Jones but now I wouldn't know who to name in that category in the central area.

I was in the company of BB last Monday evening and asked him why he thought Hibs haven't done well in recent years. His answer was simple. Hibs don't pay a decent enough wage to attract players of a better quality. He went on to say that Hibs wage "ceiling" is what has held them back. In his opinion player A should receive more money than player B if he is a better player. He also thinks the manager should be given a pot of money to work with as he sees fit. This does not happen at ER. He did state however that he hoped this would change for next season.

LeithBoozy
25-03-2012, 07:19 PM
Matty f says above, Mixu came in just as the last of Mowbrays side were making it known they wanted to go. Which makes me wonder if we are doing enough to keep our better players for longer?, maybe the madman at gorgie does not get everything wrong. Certainly any Jambo player who does not show 100% commitment is Immediately canned and unless it is an offer that cant be refused, no way should our good players end-up at the old-firm. I dont for one minute think we would be in this position, if we still had Stokes banging them in.:rolleyes:

Viva_Palmeiras
25-03-2012, 09:30 PM
John Park to Celtc shouldn't be underestimated.

BEEJ
25-03-2012, 09:43 PM
I believe hibs operated a salaries ceiling for some time (not sure if it still applies). I agree your overall wages bill is medium/high but I don't think you have a few high earners who have a longer term leadership role like Webster and (allegedly) Zaliukas have for us.


I was in the company of BB last Monday evening and asked him why he thought Hibs haven't done well in recent years. His answer was simple. Hibs don't pay a decent enough wage to attract players of a better quality. He went on to say that Hibs wage "ceiling" is what has held them back. In his opinion player A should receive more money than player B if he is a better player. He also thinks the manager should be given a pot of money to work with as he sees fit. This does not happen at ER. He did state however that he hoped this would change for next season.
In times gone by such claims would have been met with vehement denial on this Board.

I've always felt that the Hibs Manager does not have the same say on the use of his player budget as his peers have at their clubs. Mixu certainly alluded to having greater freedom at Killie than he enjoyed when at ER. Collins' criticism on that score was very public when he left.

Sammy7nil
25-03-2012, 09:52 PM
In times gone by such claims would have been met with vehement denial on this Board.

I've always felt that the Hibs Manager does not have the same say on the use of his player budget as his peers have at their clubs. Mixu certainly alluded to having greater freedom at Killie than he enjoyed when at ER. Collins' criticism on that score was very public when he left.

Should the manager be the accountant ?

I think it is enough for him to identify a player and for the salary to be negotiated by someone else.
The manager must state how desperate he is to sign a player and is he willing to axe players to sign that individual.

BEEJ
25-03-2012, 09:55 PM
Should the manager be the accountant ?

I think it is enough for him to identify a player and salary to be negotiated by someone else.
The manager must state how desperate he is to sign a player and is he willing to axe players to sign an individual.
It requires just basic arithmetic to work out how you might allocate a given annual player budget in such a way as to accommodate two or three key players in the squad on higher salaries.

No accountancy qualification necessary (or desired).

Sammy7nil
25-03-2012, 09:58 PM
It requires just basic arithmetic to work out how you might allocate a given annual player budget in such a way as to accommodate two or three key players in the squad on higher salaries.

No accountancy qualification necessary (or desired).

Well Harry Redknapp said during his court case he had never used a computer, could not write a letter and had the arithmetic skills of a 5 year old. I am not sure Harry would manage count the millions he has available :greengrin:greengrin:greengrin:wink:

blackpoolhibs
25-03-2012, 10:31 PM
I was in the company of BB last Monday evening and asked him why he thought Hibs haven't done well in recent years. His answer was simple. Hibs don't pay a decent enough wage to attract players of a better quality. He went on to say that Hibs wage "ceiling" is what has held them back. In his opinion player A should receive more money than player B if he is a better player. He also thinks the manager should be given a pot of money to work with as he sees fit. This does not happen at ER. He did state however that he hoped this would change for next season.

The board have said many times there is no wage ceiling, and its up to the manager how he spends his budget.

Someone is telling porkies?

NAE NOOKIE
25-03-2012, 10:47 PM
Its interesting to see the posts regarding Hibs wage structure.

If the quote attributed to Billy Brown is accurate then I for one agree with him. Most clubs operate a system where the best & most influential players get more money. For instance Wayne Rooney is on a lot more than most of the Man Utd team.


If Hibs were prepared to pay 3 players between 5 and 7 thousand a week and the rest on 3 to 4 thousand we would perhaps have a hell of a lot better team. Mind you, that would give us a wage bill of £3,796,000 for a squad of 16 before bonuses.

If we sold 8000 STs at an average of £300 thats £2,400,000 a deficit of £1,396,000

Whoops !

But whats wrong with paying a basic £2000 then paying a win bonus of £2,000 for home wins £500 for a home draw and £1000 per away point.

Or an even more radical idea. A basic £2000 but a bonus based on £700 per away point and a bonus based on the size of the home gate every time we play at ER .... Say 30% of the home crowd ( not including away fans ) that means the more we win the bigger the home crowd and the more money the players make.

You could set a target for the end of the season where if the home crowds at ER get above a certain level there is a bonus for that too.


Probably unworkable I suppose, but it would certainly give the players a stake in the success of the club.

snooky
25-03-2012, 11:05 PM
Well Harry Redknapp said during his court case he had never used a computer, could not write a letter and had the arithmetic skills of a 5 year old. I am not sure Harry would manage count the millions he has available :greengrin:greengrin:greengrin:wink:

His dug can though :wink:

s.a.m
26-03-2012, 05:43 AM
I think that the routine and wholesale changes at the club have had a hugely damaging effect on the club. I don't know if it's accurate to say that there's a bad culture at the club. I think there is virtually no culture at the club.

I agree that we need some senior pros in the side, but they have to be the right senior pros. Yogi tried Hart and De Graff and they added to the problems rather than helping with them.

We haven't had a team in the way that United, Killie, Motherwell etc have had, since probably Mixu's time at the club. Unfortunately he came when the last of Mowbray's side were making it known they wanted to go, and Mixu wasn't able to find players that were the right fit for the club and cracks started becoming harder to paper over. Yogi brought some good players to the team but lost Jones who was probably the last really influential player we had. Since then we've churned players at an alarming rate and have failed to have even as few as two or three key players to help the management team set standards at the club and create the right culture. Maybe we can keep someone like McPake who appears to have the right attitude and then bring another few to the club for a couple of years and actually build a team, then we'll be able to stop looking for who to blame for it all.

That's pretty much how I see it.

SlickShoes
26-03-2012, 08:59 AM
I think its to do with the wage structure and the wholesale changes.

I really hope that we give Pat Fenlon a good couple of years to do something with hibs, we all want over night success but changing manager every year is getting us nowhere, we are in no better a position now than if we had kept on yogi or mixu when they were given the heave. Pat needs time with the club to try and do something, however I am sure there will be people calling for him to be sacked in October if we are still in this league and not doing well. I am sure there are some people that even want him sacked now.

Mowbray was a revelation, but not every manager is going to be like that, I was brought up during the Alex Miller time and having the same manager for 10+ years we were in Europe, in cup finals, winning a cup and we were also relegation candidates some seasons. All of that was under one manager so to currently only be giving managers 1 year to turn everything around and then firing them, I think is ridiculous.

Saorsa
26-03-2012, 09:25 AM
I think its to do with the wage structure and the wholesale changes.

I really hope that we give Pat Fenlon a good couple of years to do something with hibs, we all want over night success but changing manager every year is getting us nowhere, we are in no better a position now than if we had kept on yogi or mixu when they were given the heave. Pat needs time with the club to try and do something, however I am sure there will be people calling for him to be sacked in October if we are still in this league and not doing well. I am sure there are some people that even want him sacked now.

Mowbray was a revelation, but not every manager is going to be like that, I was brought up during the Alex Miller time and having the same manager for 10+ years we were in Europe, in cup finals, winning a cup and we were also relegation candidates some seasons. All of that was under one manager so to currently only be giving managers 1 year to turn everything around and then firing them, I think is ridiculous.Somebody has tae get the blame before the AGMs and it'll never be those who are ultimately responsible for the running of the club so they let the managers carry the can entirely for our dismal showings.

Famous5forever
26-03-2012, 11:36 AM
I was in the company of BB last Monday evening and asked him why he thought Hibs haven't done well in recent years. His answer was simple. Hibs don't pay a decent enough wage to attract players of a better quality. He went on to say that Hibs wage "ceiling" is what has held them back. In his opinion player A should receive more money than player B if he is a better player. He also thinks the manager should be given a pot of money to work with as he sees fit. This does not happen at ER. He did state however that he hoped this would change for next season.


Wishful thinking RP Has a vice like hold of the finances at the club and that wont change we all know and accept that we have to give him credit for financing the new players that came in in January which would not have been cheap.

Scouse Hibee
26-03-2012, 12:22 PM
Financial stability off the park and outstanding ability on the park.....................is it possible? :dunno:

Phil MaGlass
26-03-2012, 12:36 PM
Were missing a good BOARD with football knowledge....

stanton_4
26-03-2012, 04:13 PM
The board have said many times there is no wage ceiling, and its up to the manager how he spends his budget.

Someone is telling porkies?

BB calls it a ceiling, the board call it a wage structure.

[QUOTE=BOVRIL;3160365]Its interesting to see the posts regarding Hibs wage structure.

If the quote attributed to Billy Brown is accurate then I for one agree with him. Most clubs operate a system where the best & most influential players get more money. For instance Wayne Rooney is on a lot more than most of the Man Utd team.

It is accurate I can assure you. I asked him the question and he answered me honestly in front of 50 other people.
He also said that:
1. CC is a lovely guy but too nice to be a manager.
2. CC was given every player he asked for during his time at ER.
3. Hearts are a shambles in the way the club is run.
4. Hibs are a fantastically well run club.
5. Marian Kello is the most victimised player in Scottish football.
6. Hearts would have won the league by now if Vlad had not interfered.
7. JJ was told by Vlad on a number of occasion to not field particular players.
8. Vlad is indeed mad but when his son (Hearts Chairman) suggested he should see a shrink he sent him to manage his aluminium factory in Lithuania. As a result Roman Romanov has not set foot in Tynie for the best part of 4 years.
9. Vlad has had a periscope installed in his office so that he can look out over his beloved city of Kaunas
10. Going back to Hearts for a second time with JJ was the worst mistake of their lives.

blackpoolhibs
26-03-2012, 04:18 PM
BB calls it a ceiling, the board call it a wage structure.

[QUOTE=BOVRIL;3160365]Its interesting to see the posts regarding Hibs wage structure.

If the quote attributed to Billy Brown is accurate then I for one agree with him. Most clubs operate a system where the best & most influential players get more money. For instance Wayne Rooney is on a lot more than most of the Man Utd team.

It is accurate I can assure you. I asked him the question and he answered me honestly in front of 50 other people.
He also said that:
1. CC is a lovely guy but too nice to be a manager.
2. CC was given every player he asked for during his time at ER.
3. Hearts are a shambles in the way the club is run.
4. Hibs are a fantastically well run club.
5. Marian Kello is the most victimised player in Scottish football.
6. Hearts would have won the league by now if Vlad had not interfered.
7. JJ was told by Vlad on a number of occasion to not field particular players.
8. Vlad is indeed mad but when his son (Hearts Chairman) suggested he should see a shrink he sent him to manage his aluminium factory in Lithuania. As a result Roman Romanov has not set foot in Tynie for the best part of 4 years.
9. Vlad has had a periscope installed in his office so that he can look out over his beloved city of Kaunas
10. Going back to Hearts for a second time with JJ was the worst mistake of their lives.

I'm not disagreeing with you one way or the other, but at the AGM the board have stated numerous times there is no wage ceiling, and the manager can spend his budget any way he wants, and that was in front of a lot more than 50 people.

As i said before, someone's telling porkies?

stanton_4
26-03-2012, 04:23 PM
[QUOTE=stanton_4;3160801]BB calls it a ceiling, the board call it a wage structure.



I'm not disagreeing with you one way or the other, but at the AGM the board have stated numerous times there is no wage ceiling, and the manager can spend his budget any way he wants, and that was in front of a lot more than 50 people.

As i said before, someone's telling porkies?

I'd plump for the board then.

Imagine the scenario. PF walks in to the board room.
"Eh Mr Petrie I can get this lad Messi for £5m a game"
I may be being a bit sarcastic but I really doubt Hibs dont have some kind of wage cap.

blackpoolhibs
26-03-2012, 04:28 PM
[QUOTE=blackpoolhibs;3160813]

I'd plump for the board then.

Imagine the scenario. PF walks in to the board room.
"Eh Mr Petrie I can get this lad Messi for £5m a game"
I may be being a bit sarcastic but I really doubt Hibs dont have some kind of wage cap.

Why go overboard trying to make your point more valid? I am going with what was said at the agm in front of many many shareholders, while you heard it from Billy Brown.

If Fenlon wanted 3 players at 3k a week, do you think he'd be told no chance, get 9 players at 1k instead? is that how he's been told to manage the club?

stanton_4
26-03-2012, 04:33 PM
[QUOTE=stanton_4;3160816]

Why go overboard trying to make your point more valid? I am going with what was said at the agm in front of many many shareholders, while you heard it from Billy Brown.

If Fenlon wanted 3 players at 3k a week, do you think he'd be told no chance, get 9 players at 1k instead? is that how he's been told to manage the club?

Going overboard? Dinnae think so. I don't even have a point to make. I was simply passing on what I was told. You suggested someone is telling porkies and I gave you my thoughts on who that might be. I'm sure you have your own thoughts on the matter. As for how Felnon manages the club I have no idea.

blackpoolhibs
26-03-2012, 04:37 PM
[QUOTE=blackpoolhibs;3160818]

Going overboard? Dinnae think so. I don't even have a point to make. I was simply passing on what I was told. You suggested someone is telling porkies and I gave you my thoughts on who that might be. I'm sure you have your own thoughts on the matter. As for how Felnon manages the club I have no idea.

You gave us the information you got from Brown, i queried it, i dont believe it but could be wrong. You then went on about signing Messi for £5m to make a point we had a wage limit. Well even i know we wont do that, thats why i said you went overboard trying to make your point, you know the wage limit.

keithkeith
26-03-2012, 06:09 PM
If Hibs were prepared to pay 3 players between 5 and 7 thousand a week and the rest on 3 to 4 thousand we would perhaps have a hell of a lot better team. Mind you, that would give us a wage bill of £3,796,000 for a squad of 16 before bonuses.

If we sold 8000 STs at an average of £300 thats £2,400,000 a deficit of £1,396,000

Whoops !

This is what happens when the media latch onto these simple arithmetic calculations and ask stories about where the money has gone.

For a start, the £2.4m will be the gross revenue. Once we pay 20% VAT, that net revenue drops to £2.0m, then take off the cost of printing & marketing the ST books. The deficit grows.

Then, the player wage will be the basic wage. You have to add N.I. (c12-13%) on top, expenses may go on top as well, pensions, then the win / draw bonuses (hopefully). So, you can add up to 50% on top of the basic.

All of a sudden, a wage bill of £3.8m can easily become £5.5m against the £2.0m revenue. A big difference to the first calculation.

Not getting at you, Bovril, just adding to your point that there is a deficit and people do not realise how big it can be.

You make an interesting point regarding the bonuses. That would be the ideal scenario - get all the players on a small basic and a higher performance-related bonus. The problem is getting the players to sign up to it. It needs an industry-wide / nationwide agreement as some other Club will always pay the higher basic and we lose the better players. It always bugs me when you see players in the stand that are not injured, just dropped, and they still pick up a high basic wage.

Glasgow Hibee
26-03-2012, 07:07 PM
It always bugs me when you see players in the stand that are not injured, just dropped, and they still pick up a high basic wage.

If you were a player you might feel differently. If you or I go to our job, work hard and do everything that is asked of us we expect a decent wage I wouldn't be happy if my manager brought in a new guy from god knows where and suddenly only gave me only half my normal income.

I admit that professional sports are a bit different and maybe sportsmen and women are motivated by competition more than most of us but I think a reasonable basic is only reasonable when there are so many variables, not under your control, that mean you might not get a game.

keithkeith
26-03-2012, 07:36 PM
John Park to Celtc shouldn't be underestimated.

Correct. He brought through a large crop of players that we have sold on for £millions. When I heard he was going, I thought this was a major blow!

keithkeith
26-03-2012, 07:42 PM
If you were a player you might feel differently. If you or I go to our job, work hard and do everything that is asked of us we expect a decent wage I wouldn't be happy if my manager brought in a new guy from god knows where and suddenly only gave me only half my normal income.

I admit that professional sports are a bit different and maybe sportsmen and women are motivated by competition more than most of us but I think a reasonable basic is only reasonable when there are so many variables, not under your control, that mean you might not get a game.

Agree. Perhaps I should say that it bugs me when players that are dropped and never getting near the first team sitting in the stands picking up the big basic wage. If you or I didn't perform as our boss expected, with basic objectives, we'd be on a performance contract and then sacked.

As you correctly point out, sportsmen are different. Something we have to live with...

stanton_4
26-03-2012, 07:59 PM
[QUOTE=stanton_4;3160821]

You gave us the information you got from Brown, i queried it, i dont believe it but could be wrong. You then went on about signing Messi for £5m to make a point we had a wage limit. Well even i know we wont do that, thats why i said you went overboard trying to make your point, you know the wage limit.

Jeezo man give it a rest. He said it... I was there. I don't give a monkey's whether you believe me or not. It happened.

blackpoolhibs
26-03-2012, 08:01 PM
[QUOTE=blackpoolhibs;3160822]

Jeezo man give it a rest. He said it... I was there. I don't give a monkey's whether you believe me or not. It happened.

Why post something on a message board if you dont want folk to read it and ask questions about what you posted?

Very odd. :confused:

stanton_4
26-03-2012, 08:21 PM
[QUOTE=stanton_4;3160939]

Why post something on a message board if you dont want folk to read it and ask questions about what you posted?

Very odd. :confused:

1. I do want folk to read it which is why I posted it.
2. You didn't ask a question, you questioned the information I gave.

Like I have already said I don't really care whether you believe me or not. Jog on.

Andy74
26-03-2012, 08:26 PM
[QUOTE=blackpoolhibs;3160813]

I'd plump for the board then.

Imagine the scenario. PF walks in to the board room.
"Eh Mr Petrie I can get this lad Messi for £5m a game"
I may be being a bit sarcastic but I really doubt Hibs dont have some kind of wage cap.

You are confusing overall budget with a wage cap. We have to have enough players to make up a squad but if the manager wanted a couple of players at £10k a week and the rest at £500 he would be allowed to do that.

stanton_4
26-03-2012, 08:28 PM
[QUOTE=stanton_4;3160816]

You are confusing overall budget with a wage cap. We have to have enough players to make up a squad but if the manager wanted a couple of players at £10k a week and the rest at £500 he would be allowed to do that.

I was being ironic. I understand the difference.

blackpoolhibs
26-03-2012, 08:32 PM
[QUOTE=blackpoolhibs;3160942]

1. I do want folk to read it which is why I posted it.
2. You didn't ask a question, you questioned the information I gave.

Like I have already said I don't really care whether you believe me or not. Jog on.

I'm jogging. :rolleyes:

stanton_4
26-03-2012, 08:37 PM
[QUOTE=stanton_4;3160963]

I'm jogging. :rolleyes:

lol fair do's.

PaulSmith
27-03-2012, 02:41 PM
Is this true...
Since Scott Lindsay was put in charge of football administration we've had more managers than home wins!?

Andy74
27-03-2012, 02:50 PM
Is this true...
Since Scott Lindsay was put in charge of football administration we've had more managers than home wins!?

Might well be but I think it was just formalising roles that were already in place.

To be fair Lindsay's role has been to give those managers the resources to do the jobs, which they have used an wasted. We' will see how Fenlon tirns out a bit longer term.

What we are really missing is continuity and patience. We need to allow players and managers to go through the ups and downs and settle into a team.

NAE NOOKIE
27-03-2012, 04:54 PM
This is what happens when the media latch onto these simple arithmetic calculations and ask stories about where the money has gone.

For a start, the £2.4m will be the gross revenue. Once we pay 20% VAT, that net revenue drops to £2.0m, then take off the cost of printing & marketing the ST books. The deficit grows.

Then, the player wage will be the basic wage. You have to add N.I. (c12-13%) on top, expenses may go on top as well, pensions, then the win / draw bonuses (hopefully). So, you can add up to 50% on top of the basic.

All of a sudden, a wage bill of £3.8m can easily become £5.5m against the £2.0m revenue. A big difference to the first calculation.

Not getting at you, Bovril, just adding to your point that there is a deficit and people do not realise how big it can be.

You make an interesting point regarding the bonuses. That would be the ideal scenario - get all the players on a small basic and a higher performance-related bonus. The problem is getting the players to sign up to it. It needs an industry-wide / nationwide agreement as some other Club will always pay the higher basic and we lose the better players. It always bugs me when you see players in the stand that are not injured, just dropped, and they still pick up a high basic wage.

Never thought you were.

I'm no mathematician or accountant for that matter so feel free.

Im led to believe that the Yam players in 1996 were paid small basic wages but big bonuses, sure I read that somewhere.