Stack

[Hibees07]

How any team can have confidence with this clown in goals is beyond me. To give us any chance of staying up we need to start by getting him out the team pronto.

The worst Keeper in the league by a preverbial mile.

[Jonnyboy]

How any team can have confidence with this clown in goals is beyond me. To give us any chance of staying up we need to start by getting him out the team pronto.

The worst Keeper in the league by a preverbial mile.

Cannae deal with crosses

Has developed a habit of losing goals he should have easily saved (Hearts and United to name but two)

Distribution poor

Apart from that he's apparently ok :wink:

[IberianHibernian]

We`ve got Stack and Brown till the end of the season ( what out of contract goalie is going to be better and going to get an understanding with defence immediately ? ) so time to get behind team and hope that Fenlon and his team are looking for a better goalie for next season if they think thst`s a priority .

[Jonnyboy]

Give the lad a chance. It's the defenders' jobs to deal with balls in the six yard box. He does command his area though by shouting very loudly..

Aye ok :aok:

Edit: we should have stuck with Maka :faf:

[iain nolan]

i have said this before a goalkeeper will gain you points and can be the diffence off top 6 or bottom 2.

hibs used to have the best gk in the league under alex miller managment and pat station says roughie

kept them up in his book when he was manager. so why over the last 6 or so years we cant find a good

gk is something the fans should be asking . we have a gk coach what role does he play when we sign gk

? hibs need to start at the back and build a new team so lets start with a new goalkeeper:flag:

[brianmc]

Give the lad a chance. It's the defenders' jobs to deal with balls in the six yard box. He does command his area though by shouting very loudly..

This post HAS to receive the troll of the season award .
Command his area? NAW.
Command his six yard box-NAW.
Command his goal line-NAW
Shout a lot..... Aye sometimes-but it never to be when a defender needs the shout from him, only when it's a aimless punt up the park that's running through to him.. Or the like

By and large we have a **** defence. However, we've all seen how much of a difference Mcpake has made in steadying it. I wholeheartedly believe that having a reliable keeper would increase that by a sufficient margin to get us out of the **** we're in-sadly that won't happen before the summer.

[SMAXXA]

Give the lad a chance. It's the defenders' jobs to deal with balls in the six yard box. He does command his area though by shouting very loudly..

The goals he has lost against Celtic (Hooper), Hearts (Suso) and again today are inexcusable. All very similar and all that a half decent keeper should be saving.

Hes hopeless IMO and the quicker we get shot and bring in someone decent the better.

[R'Albin]

He needs dropped. Never seen this week but he's been poor since the Celtic game.

He's low on confidence and playing very poor at the moment, but he's not the worst keeper in the league.

[Scouse Hibee]

Anyone that says Stack is a far better keeper than Brown must be the same folk who thought Maka was a keeper!

[brianmc]

He needs dropped. Never seen this week but he's been poor since the Celtic game.

He's low on confidence and playing very poor at the moment, but he's not the worst keeper in the league.

He's low on ability first and foremost pal.

[Sas_The_Hibby]

He needs dropped. Never seen this week but he's been poor since the Celtic game.

He's low on confidence and playing very poor at the moment, but he's not the worst keeper in the league.

Does that accolade go to Mark Brown? :greengrin

[21.05.2016]

He was defiantly at fault for second goal today, however I think he has been ok for us this season. I personally prefer Mark Brown but I really don"t think Stack has been too bad, certainly compared to what we have had in the past! Mark Brown would be my first choice though tbh.

[R'Albin]

Does that accolade go to Mark Brown? :greengrin

:tee hee:


He's low on ability first and foremost pal.

I'm don't think he is. Last season when he was fit he was commanding, was coming and taking crosses(Even though folk won't admit it) and was making great saves that were winning us games.

It's not ability that he lacks imo, confidence missing at the moment.

[Newhaven]

Don't worry. He'll be on facebook tonight apologising and all will be well on Monday. Gets an easy time by many as hes seen as one of the boys..Get rid ASAP

[hfc rd]

One of the worst GK in this league. I really hope Pat is searching far and wide for a new one this summer.

[Scouse Hibee]

Yeh.. You have to wonder..Maka's stats didn't Stack up!!

Yeah Maka's stats certainly didn't match up, anyone reading them could be forgiven for believing he was a decent keeper!

[Scouse Hibee]

Our in house statistician Jack might put you right on this?

I don't need anyone to put me right, I saw it with my own eyes!

[SteveHFC]

I would like us to sign Cammy Bell and Paul Gallacher in the summer to replace Stack and Brown :aok:

[Nailrod]

Our in house statistician Jack might put you right on this?

He can save himself the bother. I'll post the link later. Over the 64 games he played for us before he was hounded out by a combination of fan ignorance and media spite, Maka's stats, both in terms of goals conceded and shutouts, were comfortably better than any other keeper who has played any significant number of games for us this century. In some cases by a country mile.

[joebakerforever]

How any team can have confidence with this clown in goals is beyond me. To give us any chance of staying up we need to start by getting him out the team pronto.

The worst Keeper in the league by a preverbial mile.

Nope - thankfully, Smith of Dunfermline is worse.

[Scouse Hibee]

He can save himself the bother. I'll post the link later. Over the 64 games he played for us before he was hounded out by a combination of fan ignorance and media spite, Maka's stats, both in terms of goals conceded and shutouts, were comfortably better than any other keeper who has played any significant number of games for us this century. In some cases by a country mile.

Just shows how stats never tell the real story! Never a decent keeper in a million years........................where is he now Barca? :faf:

[Nailrod]

Just shows how stats never tell the real story! Never a decent keeper in a million years........................

Funnily enough, you were the person who claimed his stats didn't stack up. Now that you've been told that statistically he was the best keeper we've had this century, you don't want to judge him by his stats any more.

But you're right. Never judge a keeper by his stats. Judge him by putting on a pair of donkey's ears and braying.


where is he now Barca? http://www.hibs.net/images/smilies/hilarious.gif

Where are we?

[Hibernia&Alba]

What it it with Hibs and bad keepers? The law of averages means we must be due a decent yin soon. He doesn't have to be brilliant, just capable of doing the basics.

[Perspective]

He can save himself the bother. I'll post the link later. Over the 64 games he played for us before he was hounded out by a combination of fan ignorance and media spite, Maka's stats, both in terms of goals conceded and shutouts, were comfortably better than any other keeper who has played any significant number of games for us this century. In some cases by a country mile.

:top marks

Stack's made far more mistakes than Ma-Kalambay, but seems to slip under the radar.

Little chance he'll be given a new contract so not something I'm overly concerned about. What does worry me is that we've shown little evidence of being able to adequately strengthen in any department over the past few seasons.

[Scouse Hibee]

Funnily enough, you were the person who claimed his stats didn't stack up. Now that you've been told that statistically he was the best keeper we've had this century, you don't want to judge him by his stats any more.

But you're right. Never judge a keeper by his stats. Judge him by putting on a pair of donkey's ears and braying.



Where are we?

I think you are mistaken, read my post and try again!


In fact don't I'll explain, I think you'll find I was referring to his stats showing him to be a good keeper as opposed to his performances in my eyes showing something completely different!

[Scouse Hibee]

Well.. There you go Scouse..I'm sure you'll feel better in the morning and everything will be alright. Slow steady rhythmical breaths.. Come on. You can come through this ..

Mate you're nearly as funny as Maka in goal........................................only nearly though!

[TornadoHibby]

:top marks

Stack's made far more mistakes than Ma-Kalambay, but seems to slip under the radar.

Little chance he'll be given a new contract so not something I'm overly concerned about. What does worry me is that we've shown little evidence of being able to adequately strengthen in any department over the past few seasons.

Stack is a serious weakness for us and I would prefer to see Mark Brown play in goal till the end of the season! :agree:

Stack definately won't be at Hibs next season but which league will we be playing in? :confused:

He's done enough to help our 'squad' push us to the SPL trapdoor IMO!

[Nailrod]

I think you are mistaken, read my post and try again!


In fact don't I'll explain, I think you'll find I was referring to his stats showing him to be a good keeper as opposed to his performances in my eyes showing something completely different!

You didn't judge him on his "performances". A keeper's "performances" include the number of goals he let in, and the number of shutouts he achieved. Like a large number of fans, you judged him on a small number of high profile mistakes that were blown out of all proportion by a bunch of hacks in the media, eager to create and then stoke up "a story".

Maka's errors were mostly errors of commission, when he would come out looking for a cross and miss or drop it. When a keeper does that and the opposition score, there's no "parcelling out" of the blame. It's the keeper's fault. When a keeper stands rooted to his line and the opposition score, you can never say with certainty whether it was his fault or the defence's. So the keeper attracts less attention and less criticism.

Maka was always trying to do the right thing - trying to "own" his penalty box. But he was just a kid - what was he, 22 when we gave him the boot? - and he didn't always make the right call. With decent coaching, he would have improved that part of his game, made fewer wrong calls, and conceded fewer bad goals. And he would still have been doing the right thing - coming out for crosses, cutting off the opposition's supply of ball, relieving the pressure, winning back possession.

As far as his stats are concerned, talk sense. A rubbish keeper might fluke the best performance stats this century over half a dozen games. But not over 64 games. A guy who has the best performance record over 64 games is there on merit.

[Malonga's Cat]

:top marks

Stack's made far more mistakes than Ma-Kalambay, but seems to slip under the radar.

Little chance he'll be given a new contract so not something I'm overly concerned about. What does worry me is that we've shown little evidence of being able to adequately strengthen in any department over the past few seasons.

Spot on. I also agree with nailrod's analysis of Ma-Kalambay vs Stack. We were far too quick to slaughter a decent young shot stopper who took control of situations, sometimes making mistakes.
Now, we seem happy to play a journey man keeper who doesn't come for crosses, makes more mistakes, and seems happy to hide when the ball arrives in the hibs box. Stack is consistently poor. Celtic game, hearts game and yesterday, all avoidable goals with a steady keeper.

However, we can't make stack a scapegoat for how poor we are. There are others in this team not doing their jobs.

[Brooster]

Stack shat himself at least 3 times yesterday at crosses that were in the 6 yard area, his kicks were continually going out the pitch and what can I say about the 2nd goal? Most posters on here wouldve saved it easily. How can a defence play with any confidence with such a poor keeper behind them? Bin him and get Mark Brown in now.

[Scouse Hibee]

You didn't judge him on his "performances". A keeper's "performances" include the number of goals he let in, and the number of shutouts he achieved. Like a large number of fans, you judged him on a small number of high profile mistakes that were blown out of all proportion by a bunch of hacks in the media, eager to create and then stoke up "a story".

Maka's errors were mostly errors of commission, when he would come out looking for a cross and miss or drop it. When a keeper does that and the opposition score, there's no "parcelling out" of the blame. It's the keeper's fault. When a keeper stands rooted to his line and the opposition score, you can never say with certainty whether it was his fault or the defence's. So the keeper attracts less attention and less criticism.

Maka was always trying to do the right thing - trying to "own" his penalty box. But he was just a kid - what was he, 22 when we gave him the boot? - and he didn't always make the right call. With decent coaching, he would have improved that part of his game, made fewer wrong calls, and conceded fewer bad goals. And he would still have been doing the right thing - coming out for crosses, cutting off the opposition's supply of ball, relieving the pressure, winning back possession.

As far as his stats are concerned, talk sense. A rubbish keeper might fluke the best performance stats this century over half a dozen games. But not over 64 games. A guy who has the best performance record over 64 games is there on merit.

Thanks for trying to guess how I judged him, but I know better! I take it he never found a decent coach then as surely if he had he would now be a number one in a top team.

[Nailrod]

Thanks for trying to guess how I judged him, but I know better!

This is how I judged him:

Strengths:
1. A big guy, but lacking nothing in agility. An excellent shot stopper who very rarely conceded goals to shots from outside the box.
2. A guy who had confidence in his own judgement, and tried to "own" his box. Always ready to come out and look to cut out crosses.
3. An intimidating obstacle to opposition penalty takers.
4. A guy with the best goals against and clean sheets ratios of any regular keeper we have had this century. Had a better record than McNeill with the defence he inherited from McNeill, and had a better record than his own successors with the defence that he bequeathed to them. Stats were a country mile better than some of the rubbish we have had between the sticks.

Weaknesses:
1. Sometimes got his call wrong on crosses. Missed them or didn't clean them up well. Lost goals as a result.
2. Occasional howler - let in goals that he should have saved.

On the basis of my assessment, I always felt that he justified his performance stats. Since you clearly thought he was a joke keeper, and you don't like me telling you how you judged him, feel free to tell me, as precisely as you like, exactly what criteria you judged him on.


I take it he never found a decent coach then as surely if he had he would now be a number one in a top team...
Funnily enough, I can think of rather a depressing number of very promising young players who have been around ER over the last five years and whose careers have ended in failure, or who have drifted into the lower reaches of the game. In fact there are a couple of them round the first team at the moment threatening to go that way. Might be interesting to speculate why...

[Golden Bear]

I've always felt that Mark Brown was the better of our two keepers simply because he's more consistent. He's done little wrong in the games he's played and deserves to be recalled right away.

Not that it will happen of course.

[Nailrod]

Stack shat himself at least 3 times yesterday at crosses that were in the 6 yard area, his kicks were continually going out the pitch and what can I say about the 2nd goal? Most posters on here wouldve saved it easily. How can a defence play with any confidence with such a poor keeper behind them? Bin him and get Mark Brown in now.

Brooster, last time I stupidly allowed myself to be drawn into a "Maka" debate it was on a thread where somebody was calling for Brown to be reinstated, He got his wish. Brown came back in, and within the space of four games - including one against a second division team and one against the bottom team in the SPL - he had shipped 11 goals. We cannot survive on a ratio of 3+ goals against per match.

The fact is that we have a suspect defence, and both Stack and Brown, due to their style of play, multiply the problem in spades. Our goals against ratio this season is frightening. There is nothing we can do about it at this stage other than clench our buttocks, screw our eyes tight shut, and hope.

[Nailrod]

I would add that although he didn't take every cross perfectly not every misjudgment ended up a goal and the number of balls he took perfectly from every part of his box nipped countless potentially dangerous situations in the bud!

You've hit the nailrod on the head. The precise reason that his stats were good is because the possession he won for us meant that the defence was under less pressure, and fewer periods of sustained pressure, when he was between the sticks. So we conceded fewer goals.

If only the club and the fans hadn't been too blinkered to see that.

[MrRobot]

Stack had bren ***** but Brown is so much worse. IMO we need a new keeper asap, Stack as back up and Brown to leave.

[ekhibee]

What it it with Hibs and bad keepers? The law of averages means we must be due a decent yin soon. He doesn't have to be brilliant, just capable of doing the basics.

Fair point, but you could say the same about our **** SC record and **** record against Hearts, unless we've had valid excuses for the last 110 years..

[sesoim]

As well as numerous embarrassing blunders, Maka's technique was bizarre, his positioning poor, he let a lot of goals go in that he could simply have stuck a hand or foot out to save, and he constantly got into mix ups with the defence because no one knew what he was going to do next.

Stack has been poor lately, and I think his time IS up, but if Maka had been playing for us this season I seriously think there would have been a few cricket scores this season.

[calumb]

As well as numerous embarrassing blunders, Maka's technique was bizarre, his positioning poor, he let a lot of goals go in that he could simply have stuck a hand or foot out to save, and he constantly got into mix ups with the defence because no one knew what he was going to do next.

Stack has been poor lately, and I think his time IS up, but if Maka had been playing for us this season I seriously think there would have been a few cricket scores this season.

Maka was not the greatest but i fail to see how he could have done any worse that stack doing his statue impressions in the middle of our goals all season.

[Mikeystewart]

I think the goalkeeping position is the least of Hibs worries at the moment and I think he (stack) is pretty decent. His mistake for the first goal was a bit annoying but his defenders didn't do him any favours.

[SMAXXA]

I think the goalkeeping position is the least of Hibs worries at the moment and I think he (stack) is pretty decent. His mistake for the first goal was a bit annoying but his defenders didn't do him any favours.

But is it the least of our worries? If we stop chucking goals in like he has been guilty of we remain in games longer and have a better chance of getting something out of it, like saturday at 1 down there's always a chance you might nick something but at 2, heads go down and were pretty much out the game.

[blackpoolhibs]

I think the goalkeeping position is the least of Hibs worries at the moment and I think he (stack) is pretty decent. His mistake for the first goal was a bit annoying but his defenders didn't do him any favours.

It was the 2nd goal he let under his body, he saved us 2 or 3 times prior to that and was unlucky with the first goal.

Shay Given let one in very similar at the weekend.

[HH81]

Stack had bren ***** but Brown is so much worse. IMO we need a new keeper asap, Stack as back up and Brown to leave.

Stack and Brown both to leave if we are to progress. No point bringing in a new keeper who gets injuired first game and then were back to Stack. He is not good enough.

[truehibernian]

And get in a player who trains properly, doesn't drink and smoke, nor get arrested in nightclubs. Someone who cares would also be an added bonus, and doesn't play the game via Facebook soundbites.

[Andy74]

You've hit the nailrod on the head. The precise reason that his stats were good is because the possession he won for us meant that the defence was under less pressure, and fewer periods of sustained pressure, when he was between the sticks. So we conceded fewer goals.

If only the club and the fans hadn't been too blinkered to see that.

Nonsense. All the stats can't hide what we coud see with our own eyes. He wasn't good enough.

[One Day Soon]

I think you are mistaken, read my post and try again!


In fact don't I'll explain, I think you'll find I was referring to his stats showing him to be a good keeper as opposed to his performances in my eyes showing something completely different!

What a mental post.

[One Day Soon]

And get in a player who trains properly, doesn't drink and smoke, nor get arrested in nightclubs. Someone who cares would also be an added bonus, and doesn't play the game via Facebook soundbites.

That pretty much nails it for me really.

[Scouse Hibee]

What a mental post.

Well I know what I mean! :greengrin

[brog]

Well I know what I mean! :greengrin

I understand what you're saying, mind you that worries me!!
I've said all season a proper keeper was a priority but I've been shouted down by the great majority. Stack threw away our 1st conceded goal of the season, vs Celtc & he's thrown away our most recent conceded goal but paradoxically I still think he's better than Brown.
I also don't think Stack is the worst keeper in the league, thankfully Smith at Pars claims that title, & I also wouldn't necessarily swap Stack for several other SPL keepers, inc the current incumbent at PBS.
However being equal with other crap keepers in a p poor league doesn't make Stack a good keeper. As another poster said we're pretty much stuck with him for rest of the season but I'm sure PF is well aware of the need for a keeper in summer.

[ekhibee]

Well at least we are consistent in our choice of goalies, for some time I thought I hadn't seen as pish a gk as Gottskallson, then along came Zibi,Simon Brown, McNeill,Maka, Stack and Brown. There is obviously different levels of pishness here, but 2 things stand out for me: Mowbray extending Zibi's contract, and anybody who thinks Stack is anymore than a journeyman keeper.

[NOLA]

whats Maka up to these days, theres a player in there somewhere!

[blackpoolhibs]

whats Maka up to these days, theres a player in there somewhere!

:greengrin

[Dr Jimmy]

The goalie is the least of our problems, we could still be playing Utd and won't have scored.
Anyone know where our next goal is coming from? This is the issue that will drag us closer to dunfermline not the keeper chucking one in during what was frankly a hiding despite the scoreline against Utd.

[Nailrod]

Nonsense. All the stats can't hide what we coud see with our own eyes. He wasn't good enough.

Hmm..

Maka. The most successful keeper we've had this century.

Alan O'Brien. Almost certainly the worst and least successful forward ever to make more than 50 appearances for Hibs. Ever. If you can find a forward who played fifty-three games for Hibs and ended up with less than zero goals and one assist, I'd love to know who it might have been.

Which one did you send two years telling us was 'a player'? Mind you, by your logic, since his stats were absolutely appalling, O'Brien must have been brilliant.

I think if I wanted a pair of eyes to judge a player with, yours would probably be the last ones on the planet I would use. I'd rather use Stevie Wonder's.

[Hibercelona]

Aye, lets blame the keeper..... again.

I'm sure if Stack wasn't our goalie this season, we'd be sitting up the table quite comfortably with the great squad of players we have....

[Andy74]

Hmm..

Maka. The most successful keeper we've had this century.

Alan O'Brien. Almost certainly the worst and least successful forward ever to make more than 50 appearances for Hibs. Ever. If you can find a forward who played fifty-three games for Hibs and ended up with less than zero goals and one assist, I'd love to know who it might have been.

Which one did you send two years telling us was 'a player'? Mind you, by your logic, since his stats were absolutely appalling, O'Brien must have been brilliant.

I think if I wanted a pair of eyes to judge a player with, yours would probably be the last ones on the planet I would use. I'd rather use Stevie Wonder's.

The most successful keeper this century in what way exactly?

Stats show next to nothing about a keeper.

I defended Maka for far longer than I defended O'Brien by the way. I thought Maka had all the attributes to be a grewat keeper and thought he would learn and cut out the mistakes.

He had some great games when he put it all together but after a while, when he clearly wasn't cutting out the mistakes and was letting some horrendous efforts in I had to accept that he wasn't cut out for it after all.

With O'Brien I didn't ever suggest he had played well or consistently well for us. My argument was only that he was not as bad as was being made out and had been very unlucky with injury. There were many questioning why he had ever made a professional footaller but he had previously done well with Newcastle, had international caps and had started very well for us in pre season. He did have some games where he put things together and looked very decent.

I have a laugh as much as anyone else about backing O'Brien to come good but I accepted that he hadn't done enough here and that his injuries, confidence, whatever had ruined his career.

Still, some are still clinging to Maka being a good keeper. If you are going to bring previous backing of other players into it then put it in perspective, eh?

[bawheid]

We've had this debate a lot over the years but needless to say, IMO Nailrod is owning this thread.

Makalambay was a fabulous young goalkeeper who had the ability to pull off the kind of saves we'd not seen since Leighton. He was one of those goalkeepers who was capable of making a special save. He made saves Stack or Brown could only dream of.

Being 20,21,22 he also made a few errors. Unfortunately for him, some of these errors were in high profile games being watched by a media obsessed with the "Hibs' goalkeepers" story. Lazy, ignorant hacks who couldn't see past the hospitality pies at the end of their noses.

Sadly a lot of fans were taken in by Allan Preston's screeching on Open All Mics and eventually Maka was replaced with "somebody who can do the basics"... :yawn:

[Andy74]

We've had this debate a lot over the years but needless to say, IMO Nailrod is owning this thread.

Makalambay was a fabulous young goalkeeper who had the ability to pull off the kind of saves we'd not seen since Leighton. He was one of those goalkeepers who was capable of making a special save. He made saves Stack or Brown could only dream of.

Being 20,21,22 he also made a few errors. Unfortunately for him, some of these errors were in high profile games being watched by a media obsessed with the "Hibs' goalkeepers" story. Lazy, ignorant hacks who couldn't see past the hospitality pies at the end of their noses.

Sadly a lot of fans were taken in by Allan Preston's screeching on Open All Mics and eventually Maka was replaced with "somebody who can do the basics"... :yawn:


Oh dear. Why haven't we been taken in by the rest of Allan Preston's many ravings?

Why haven't the press being using the Hibs goalkeepers story in the last few years?

How has Maka progressed now that he is through those early years?

I thought some of the recent support for Maka was a bit of a wind up. I'm now thinking some of you are being serious. :confused:

[bawheid]

Oh dear. Why haven't we been taken in by the rest of Allan Preston's many ravings?

Why haven't the press being using the Hibs goalkeepers story in the last few years?

How has Maka progressed now that he is through those early years?

I thought some of the recent support for Maka was a bit of a wind up. I'm now thinking some of you are being serious. :confused:

Deadly serious. :agree:

It wasn't just Preston. It was the rest of the BBC Sportsound crew as well, quietly guffawing behind their hands at Makalambay's irregular (but effective) playing style.

The press are the press - that story was fashionable for a while and they milked it to death. As soon as we installed "shut-out" Stack and he "did the basics" for a few games in a row they moved onto something else. If they'd bother to check though, they'd have plenty ammunition to reignite the story.

Maka went to Swansea as an understudy to their No 1, and is currently performing the same role in the Belgian top division for KV Mechelen. Still a young man (by goalkeeping standards) he's got every chance still to make it.

Maka was a Hibernian goalie - he had a bit of flair about him. With that came a few errors, but I'd have him over either of the duds we have masquerading as Hibs goalies now.

[BEEJ]

Maka was a Hibernian goalie - he had a bit of flair about him. With that came a few errors, but I'd have him over either of the duds we have masquerading as Hibs goalies now.
A likeable big fella. But rarely one to use his stature as a means of physically dominating his territory.

Certainly made some excellent saves in his time; but it's amazing how readily folks erase the lad's gaffs and moments of chronic indecision from their memory banks. It's no coincidence that he's been a back-up keeper since he left ER.

If Maka is the best that Hibs can aspire to as their No.1, then we might as well accept now that Division 1 is our destiny.

[winnipeg jets]

it's no surprise that the two teams with the worst goalkeepers are sitting at the bottom of the league by a distance

[Don Giovanni]

it's no surprise that the two teams with the worst goalkeepers are sitting at the bottom of the league by a distance

No 'keeper (or any other player for that matter) is without mistakes but I've always thought Mark Brown and Paul Gallacher (sp.?) are decent SPL-standard goalies.

Can only guess whether the Pars would be better off, but given Gallachers experience, his (probable) influence as an auld heid and the quality of his replacements then I'd wager we might have been in even more trouble than we currently are had he not sustained a season ending injury. :bitchy:

As far as our two goalkeepers are concerned there are / have been more pressing issues elsewhere on the park than who is between the sticks.
Sad to say but Hibs continue to be a poor side all over the pitch.

P.S. Just had a squint at Pars home page and it would appear that they are hoping to sign a Spanish goalkeeper.

http://www.dafc.co.uk/articles/20120329/pars-going-for-new-goalkeeper_2207955_2704020

[SMAXXA]

it's no surprise that the two teams with the worst goalkeepers are sitting at the bottom of the league by a distance

Thats quite a good point, mind its so surprise the 2 teams with the worst players in general are bottom. On a side note Ive always thought that Samson at St Midden was pretty gash aswell.

[Skanko79]

Is maka still at swansea?

[SRHibs]

Never rated Stack. He's God awful.

[BEEJ]

Is maka still at swansea?
He's in Belgium, I believe. Still a back-up keeper there at this point.

[Newhaven]

Mechelen.... Belgian first division. Believe they have a European trophy in their cabinet and a team that would hammer us right now if they were blindfolded and had their feet tied together and were locked out of the stadium where the match was taking place!

Christ Spartans could probably beat us just now.

Folk harking back to give Maka a chance should take a second and reflect on his blunder after blunder and his speciality of going off 'injured' when the going got tough and he had to play in front of those nasty Hearts fans at the holy ground.

Maka was only good at signing autgraphs for the kids at half time and posing for snaps. As a goalie he was Tom Kite.

[Broken Gnome]

We've had this debate a lot over the years but needless to say, IMO Nailrod is owning this thread.

Makalambay was a fabulous young goalkeeper who had the ability to pull off the kind of saves we'd not seen since Leighton. He was one of those goalkeepers who was capable of making a special save. He made saves Stack or Brown could only dream of.

Being 20,21,22 he also made a few errors. Unfortunately for him, some of these errors were in high profile games being watched by a media obsessed with the "Hibs' goalkeepers" story. Lazy, ignorant hacks who couldn't see past the hospitality pies at the end of their noses.

Sadly a lot of fans were taken in by Allan Preston's screeching on Open All Mics and eventually Maka was replaced with "somebody who can do the basics"... :yawn:

Can we have examples of these special saves? I'm not saying he didn't have good games, but I can't think of many miraculous efforts that seem to have been ten a penny. And less of the 'fabulous' eh. Doesn't do your argument many favours.

Stack and Brown both having made a save each as good as any I've seen from a Hibs keeper since Danny Andersson as it happens over the last year.

[CallumLaidlaw]

I've never seen a keeper drop as many crosses as maka did. He would come for the ball and completely miss it. Now surely stacks decision of not coming at all is better. I even remember maka apologising after an Aberdeen game cos his gaffe was that hideous. The guy was huge so had the right to win every ball that came into the box but rarely did. He seemed a decent bloke but he's done nothing since to say he was a big loss

[SMAXXA]

His record and performances against Hearts and the old firm was not bad from memory..And I've no idea where you dig the blunder after blunder crap from...

Booting it off the guys back against aberdeen that went in, beat at his near post by kenny millar in front of the famous 5 stand were 2 shockers that come to mind.

He was a bombscare let's not forget, people have short memories that one of the worst keepers we have had at Hibs is suddenly not bad and we should have kept him. Naaaa not for me, I remember him for what he was.

Imagine him playing with this team, at least he had better players in front of him back then.

[GreenCastle]

Keepers that aren't good enough for Hibs :rolleyes:

Stack, Mark Brown, Maka, Simon Brown,
Greame Smith, McNeil, Ali Brown, Zibby, Tony Caig, David Grof, Oli Gottskalksson, Colgan,

Keepers that I would take any day of the week if still playing :agree:

Goram, Leighton, Anderson,
John Burridge,
Szamotulski,


Bottom line - we need to produce or source better keepers. The yams have found several over the years and even youngsters coming through are better than we have - a good keeper makes the back 4 stronger and won't get your relegated.

[JimBHibees]

I've never seen a keeper drop as many crosses as maka did. He would come for the ball and completely miss it. Now surely stacks decision of not coming at all is better. I even remember maka apologising after an Aberdeen game cos his gaffe was that hideous. The guy was huge so had the right to win every ball that came into the box but rarely did. He seemed a decent bloke but he's done nothing since to say he was a big loss

Yep remember that game, he made two horrific errors in a game Hibs were dominating in ended 3-3 with Deano scoring late on for a draw.

Truly awful goalie IMO with the mental strength of a newt. :greengrin

[Spike Mandela]

Keepers that aren't good enough for Hibs :rolleyes:

Stack, Mark Brown, Maka, Simon Brown,
Greame Smith, McNeil, Ali Brown, Zibby, Tony Caig, David Grof, Oli Gottskalksson, Colgan,

harsh, thought Nick Colgan was decent.

[Auckland Hibs]

This thread reeks of Yam pish. End of.

[GreenCastle]

harsh, thought Nick Colgan was decent.

Colgan was probably in the middle - did a job most of the time (can't remember any howlers?) Something which I would take right now. So maybe a bit harsh yes.

[Ritchie]

Hmm..

Maka. The most successful keeper we've had this century.

Alan O'Brien. Almost certainly the worst and least successful forward ever to make more than 50 appearances for Hibs. Ever. If you can find a forward who played fifty-three games for Hibs and ended up with less than zero goals and one assist, I'd love to know who it might have been.

Which one did you send two years telling us was 'a player'? Mind you, by your logic, since his stats were absolutely appalling, O'Brien must have been brilliant.

I think if I wanted a pair of eyes to judge a player with, yours would probably be the last ones on the planet I would use. I'd rather use Stevie Wonder's.

Surely McNeil is the most successful keeper we've had this century considering he's the only one with a medal to show for his time at Easter Road

[Nailrod]

The most successful keeper this century in what way exactly?
Stats show next to nothing about a keeper.
Stats show next to nothing about a keeper. That's clever. That makes as much sense as saying "Stats show next to nothing about a striker."

I thought Maka had all the attributes to be a great keeper and thought he would learn and cut out the mistakes.

So did I.

Maka. First 20 games for Hibs. Defence was basically McCann, Hogg, Jones, Murphy.

20 games
29 goals conceded
5 shutouts
1.45 goals per game
25% shutouts

Maka. Last 20 games for Hibs. Defence was basically Bamba, Murray, Mccormack, Hanlan

20 games
21 goals conceded
8 shutouts
1.05 goals per game
40% shutouts

A friggin joke that we binned a 23-year old keeper with 1.05 goals against and 40% shutouts in his last 20 matches.

But then, what do I know compared with Chick Young, Alan Preston, the Hearts support, and you?

[Franck is God]

Stats show next to nothing about a keeper. That's clever. That makes as much sense as saying "Stats show next to nothing about a striker."


So did I.

Maka. First 20 games for Hibs. Defence was basically McCann, Hogg, Jones, Murphy.

20 games
29 goals conceded
5 shutouts
1.45 goals per game
25% shutouts

Maka. Last 20 games for Hibs. Defence was basically Bamba, Murray, Mccormack, Hanlan

20 games
21 goals conceded
8 shutouts
1.05 goals per game
40% shutouts

A friggin joke that we binned a 23-year old keeper with 1.05 goals against and 40% shutouts in his last 20 matches.

But then, what do I know compared with Chick Young, Alan Preston, the Hearts support, and you?


Sorry mate, your just wasting your time arguing with people on this board, one they've made up their mind that's it. They are the same 'fans' that insist that Derek Riordan is a better player than Steven Fletcher or Bamba was a bombscare or Ian Murray is the greatest Hibs captain there has ever been. They also moaned that Whittaker was never a right back and were happier with Rob Jones than Gary Caldwell.

I find it best to ignore them and not worry about it. For what its worth I completely agree with your assessment of Maka, best keeper I have seen at ER since Leighton and I firmly believe that he will play at a higher level than Hibs play at for the majority of his career.

[Scouse Hibee]

Sorry mate, your just wasting your time arguing with people on this board, one they've made up their mind that's it. They are the same 'fans' that insist that Derek Riordan is a better player than Steven Fletcher or Bamba was a bombscare or Ian Murray is the greatest Hibs captain there has ever been. They also moaned that Whittaker was never a right back and were happier with Rob Jones than Gary Caldwell.

I find it best to ignore them and not worry about it. For what its worth I completely agree with your assessment of Maka, best keeper I have seen at ER since Leighton and I firmly believe that he will play at a higher level than Hibs play at for the majority of his career.

Interesting! Do you mean actually playing games or sitting on the bench for a team that are at a higher level than Hibs?

[Franck is God]

Interesting! Do you mean actually playing games or sitting on the bench for a team that are at a higher level than Hibs?

He'll play plenty games and has a lot of time to do it, keeper is a specialist position on the pitch and you can only use one at a time which means good ones will miss out at times.

Dudek saved the last penalty in the shoot out to win Liverpool the Champions League, within weeks he signed for Real Madrid and has pretty much sat on the bench ever since. Craig Gordon got injured at Sunderland and hasn't been able to win his place back, Shay Given had to leave City to play again, there are loads more examples I could name if you want.

I am confident that the fans of Stack at ER were also not keen on Maka but Hibs are the first side in his career that he has been considered first choice for, does it matter to them how many benches he has warmed up until this point?

[Scouse Hibee]

He'll play plenty games and has a lot of time to do it, keeper is a specialist position on the pitch and you can only use one at a time which means good ones will miss out at times.

Dudek saved the last penalty in the shoot out to win Liverpool the Champions League, within weeks he signed for Real Madrid and has pretty much sat on the bench ever since. Craig Gordon got injured at Sunderland and hasn't been able to win his place back, Shay Given had to leave City to play again, there are loads more examples I could name if you want.

I am confident that the fans of Stack at ER were also not keen on Maka but Hibs are the first side in his career that he has been considered first choice for, does it matter to them how many benches he has warmed up until this point?



Dudek,Given and Gordon have all made the grade as number one at clubs considerably higher than Hibs regardless of what they are doing at the moment. I suppose only time will tell if Maka will ever make the grade as a number one at such a high level.

[Holmesdale Hibs]

Stats show next to nothing about a keeper. That's clever. That makes as much sense as saying "Stats show next to nothing about a striker."



I don't think stats tell you much about a keeper either. Based on stats, Andy Goram must be one of the worst keepers we've ever had?

I think Stack is ok, so is Brown. Both are as good as or better than anything we've had since Daniel Andersson. A new goalkeeper, or at least one that we could realistically hope to sign, wouldn't improve our league position.

[blackpoolhibs]

Stack was my man of the match today, made some teriffic saves and came for crosses and punched clear each one. a 10/10 performance. :top marks

[essexhibee]

Stack was class today. That's how to shut up the boo boys. Massive performance in a massive win. :not worth

[Big Frank]

He's been utterly gash for most of the season imo.

But not today. Well done.

[HUTCHYHIBBY]

Howler for their second

I hope thats a wind up, if so, I'll take the bait!

Bollox!

[blackpoolhibs]

Howler for their second..And the two or three he flappy punched at were a "must" to come for even for a fanny like him..

:na na:

[Danderhall Hibs]

I hope thats a wind up, if so, I'll take the bait!

Bollox!

I'm sure Maka let in a similar goal away to St Mirren a couple of seasons ago. Think the folk that will be claiming a Stack howler today were saying it was a fluke when it happened to Maka.

[Saorsa]

Howler for their second..And the two or three he flappy punched at were a "must" to come for even for a fanny like him..http://i19.photobucket.com/albums/b168/jamie1971/smilies 2/troll2.gif

[hibs0666]

Howler for their second..And the two or three he flappy punched at were a "must" to come for even for a fanny like him..

I feel your pain.

:party:

[cocopops1875]

I hope thats a wind up, if so, I'll take the bait!

Bollox!

In fairness I'm very pro Stack however id say he was badly positioned for the 2nd, too tight to his line/front post and under the bar he should have been squarer, out from under his bar and a full step back. However it was a freak goal and he had a great game in general :hibees:pfgwa

[LancashireHibby]

In fairness I'm very pro Stack however id say he was badly positioned for the 2nd, too tight to his line/front post and under the bar he should have been squarer, out from under his bar and a full step back. However it was a freak goal and he had a great game in general :hibees:pfgwa
I think the only place he could have been stood to have a chance of saving it would be if he was on his back post, which would of course have been a terrible position had the intended cross gone in to the box. One of those things and nothing Stack could do about it. I thought his save from Tade was particularly vital by the way almost immediately after the penalty as a goal for ICT at that point would have finished it.

[LancashireHibby]

He was a yard away from the striker.A save that a primary school keeper makes.
You're completely disregarding the fact that he was quick off his line to narrow the angle and staying on his feet as long as possible to force Tade's arm, then?

[cocopops1875]

I think the only place he could have been stood to have a chance of saving it would be if he was on his back post, which would of course have been a terrible position had the intended cross gone in to the box. One of those things and nothing Stack could do about it. I thought his save from Tade was particularly vital by the way almost immediately after the penalty as a goal for ICT at that point would have finished it.

my take is he would have/could have had it had he been no more than a yard further back (he wasn't far away from it from his starting position) the ball was curling in and dipping had he been square his only required steps would have been back as opposed to out then back, in effect he would have been 2 steps quicker :wink:

[McD]

He was a yard away from the striker.A save that a primary school keeper makes.

With respect, thats pish.

He's at his near post in the correct area, the only way to save that cross/shot would have been at least 5 yards further back, exposing the near post.

Better and more illustrious keepers have been beaten by similar attempts.

[LancashireHibby]

my take is he would have/could have had it had he been no more than a yard further back (he wasn't far away from it from his starting position) the ball was curling in and dipping had he been square his only required steps would have been back as opposed to out then back, in effect he would have been 2 steps quicker :wink:
Looked to me as though it dipped right at the last second and was as far in to the top corner as you could get it - pretty much unstoppable for something that was unintended!

[Pretty Boy]

In fairness I'm very pro Stack however id say he was badly positioned for the 2nd, too tight to his line/front post and under the bar he should have been squarer, out from under his bar and a full step back. However it was a freak goal and he had a great game in general :hibees:pfgwa

This.

Didn't cover himself in.glory for the second but overall he was outstanding.

[LancashireHibby]

A very basic keeper does that kind of stuff.
Must be a scandal how many goalkeepers can't do the basics in that case then when you consider how many one-on-one's are scored in a weekend.

[hibs0666]

A very basic keeper does that kind of stuff.

How's big Yves getting on in the Premiership these days?

[McD]

How would you explain the goal Rangers scored a couple of years ago at ER when I think it was Nacho who fluked one in at the near post?..When Maka was trying to cover that unlikely possibility and the probability of a cross?..

I would expect my keeper to cover his near post and live with the unlikelier event of a player fluking one over the goalie and in the back post.

A keeper should never get beat at his near post, the reason they usually do is trying to be cute and steal a yard or 2 to try and grab the likely cross.

To respond paraphrasing you - a very basic goalkeeper should make saves at his near post, that's something they're taught as schoolboys.

[millarco]

I'm sure Maka let in a similar goal away to St Mirren a couple of seasons ago. Think the folk that will be claiming a Stack howler today were saying it was a fluke when it happened to Maka.

And vice versa. Thought he was poorly positioned, too close to his near post. Fair enough he's covering that area, but he could have had it covered with another step or two across, where IMO he would have got a hand to the cross.

However over the course of today he had a good game, couple of very good saves and did just about enough with his punches at corners. I don't rate him at all though, hopefully a keeper (or two) will be on the priorities list for the summer.

[cocopops1875]

I would expect my keeper to cover his near post and live with the unlikelier event of a player fluking one over the goalie and in the back post.

A keeper should never get beat at his near post, the reason they usually do is trying to be cute and steal a yard or 2 to try and grab the likely cross.

To respond paraphrasing you - a very basic goalkeeper should make saves at his near post, that's something they're taught as schoolboys.

to be fair that is true however a good keeper does not stand behind his near post to stop being beaten at it :wink: he should be able to cover it while also being in a position to catch a cross/ tip it over his bar something that is a struggle standing directly below the bar. As i have said I'm a fan of stack and have debated his worth on many threads but today i felt he could have been better positioned, Would he have stopped it had he of been ? who knows :agree:

[Baldy Foghorn]

Howler for their second..And the two or three he flappy punched at were a "must" to come for even for a fanny like him..

Jeezo :rolleyes:

[cocopops1875]

Jeezo :rolleyes:

In case you are not sure A Regulator does not rate Stack:greengrin

[Baldy Foghorn]

In case you are not sure A Regulator does not rate Stack:greengrin

Thank you for clearing that up, it was ambiguous until you clarified his stance:greengrin

[Dirkster23]

How's big Yves getting on in the Premiership these days?

Playing in Belgium for Mechelen now. Having said that, he appears to only have made 1 appearance this season when the 1st and 2nd choice keepers were injured.

[Iggy Pope]

How would you explain the goal Rangers scored a couple of years ago at ER when I think it was Nacho who fluked one in at the near post?..When Maka was trying to cover that unlikely possibility and the probability of a cross?..

:trumpet:

[Scouse Hibee]

In case you are not sure A Regulator does not rate Stack:greengrin

But he rated Maka :faf:

[Scouse Hibee]

Warming the bench in Belgium for Mechelen now. Having said that, he appears to have made just 1 appearance this season when the 1st and 2nd choice keepers were injured.

.

[Baldy Foghorn]

Still does!

:confused::confused:

That tells us everything we need to know....

[cocopops1875]

Still does!

what have you thought of his recent form ?

[Jonnyboy]

Cannae be ersed reading 126 posts so I'll just say this. I think we need a better keeper but today Stack did as much as our three scorers to win the points

[silverhibee]

Cannae be ersed reading 126 posts so I'll just say this. I think we need a better keeper but today Stack did as much as our three scorers to win the points


:agree:

[leither17]

Cannae be ersed reading 126 posts so I'll just say this. I think we need a better keeper but today Stack did as much as our three scorers to win the points

Yeah he done well today came for the crosses when he was needed and made a few top class saves from tade and hayes

[Hibercelona]

It's not the first time i'd rate Stack as MOTM this season.

He may not be the finished article, but he's one of our best players IMO.

If our strikers hadn't taken those chances yesterday, Stack would be the one taking the stick yet again.

[Dashing Bob S]

It's not the first time i'd rate Stack as MOTM this season.

He may not be the finished article, but he's one of our best players IMO.

If our strikers hadn't taken those chances yesterday, Stack would be the one taking the stick yet again.

He won us the game today.

[Russ]

He won us the game today.

I agree, but he's lost us way more, this was probably his best display in Hibs jersey, but by the law of averages it had to come, as the original poster says, he is an utter clown....

[Hibercelona]

I agree, but he's lost us way more,

No he hasn't. Point me to games where he has cost us points that we deserved to take anything from.


this was probably his best display in Hibs jersey,

He's had some better displays in games that we've lost.



but by the law of averages it had to come,

Really? I'm intrigued about this "law of average" idea that you speak of. Do tell me more.


as the original poster says, he is an utter clown....

Indeed. Playing for Hibs and not being 100% flawless makes you a clown.

[Russ]

No he hasn't. Point me to games where he has cost us points that we deserved to take anything from.



He's had some better displays in games that we've lost.




Really? I'm intrigued about this "law of average" idea that you speak of. Do tell me more.



Indeed. Playing for Hibs and not being 100% flawless makes you a clown.


LOL, very interesting reply. Am thinking u haven't been to too many games if you're questioning my opinion. Anyone that has seen STACK between the sticks will know he's a clown, anyone with half a brain that is. I go to all home games, I know many Hibs fans, and not ONE want this clown at Easter Road next year.

[Russ]

No he hasn't. Point me to games where he has cost us points that we deserved to take anything from.



He's had some better displays in games that we've lost.




Really? I'm intrigued about this "law of average" idea that you speak of. Do tell me more.



Indeed. Playing for Hibs and not being 100% flawless makes you a clown.
BTW, As recently as last week against UTD he was culpable, and it started when he dropped the ball at Stokes's feet on the opening day at Easter Road to gift them a goal, the guy is nowhere near good enough

[Nailrod]

Sorry mate, your just wasting your time arguing with people on this board, one they've made up their mind that's it. They are the same 'fans' that insist that Derek Riordan is a better player than Steven Fletcher or Bamba was a bombscare or Ian Murray is the greatest Hibs captain there has ever been. They also moaned that Whittaker was never a right back and were happier with Rob Jones than Gary Caldwell.

I find it best to ignore them and not worry about it. For what its worth I completely agree with your assessment of Maka, best keeper I have seen at ER since Leighton and I firmly believe that he will play at a higher level than Hibs play at for the majority of his career.

Thanks for the support, Franck is God, but I've belatedly come to the conclusion that I'm an idiot, and completely wrong in all this. As other posters have explained, stats tell you nothing about a keeper's perfomances.

Think of it this way. Imagine we had a striker who had played 60 games for us, and had a better goalscoring record than any other striker we've had this century. Let's say he scored 40 goals. But he also missed some absolute sitters.

Clearly the right thing to do would be to bin him, and replace him with a striker who only scored half as many goals, but who didn't miss as many sitters. The reasons why this is the right thing to do are so obvious that they don't need stating in anything as humdrum as words. Should anybody query the logic, you just need to post one of these - :faf: - and your postition becomes unassailable. You can then harp on about a couple of the sitters the guy missed, while insisting that he was useless.

Take it from me, there are much more reliable ways to judge a striker than looking at his goalscoring record across sixty matches. One obvious one that springs to mind is slaughtering a chicken and examining its entrails.

[Nailrod]

By the way, especially for the Maka-Whackers, here are some more "meaningless statistics":

Matches against OF and Hearts:

With Maka: Played 21; Won 5; Drew 7; Lost 9; Goals against 26 (Av 1.24); Shut-outs 7 (Av 33%)
Post Maka: Played 24; Won 1; Drew 3; Lost 20; Goals against 52 (Av 2.17); Shut-outs 2 (Av 8%)

[Teo10]

I wonder what half decent goalie we could get in that, A - wants to come to a club in a p*ss poor position that we are in and B - when he makes the first mistake half of the fans are going to get on his back about it?

We all know Stack has his moments but lets not forget the saves that kept us in the game......

[hibs0666]

By the way, especially for the Maka-Whackers, here are some more "meaningless statistics":

Matches against OF and Hearts:

With Maka: Played 21; Won 5; Drew 7; Lost 9; Goals against 26 (Av 1.24); Shut-outs 7 (Av 33%)
Post Maka: Played 24; Won 1; Drew 3; Lost 20; Goals against 52 (Av 2.17); Shut-outs 2 (Av 8%)

It would appear that the big guy has played five games since he left Hibs.

[hibs0666]

PS Nailrod...It makes you wonder what his record would have been like if wasn't such a "bottler" in these high profile games :))

He doesn't play in any games these days, never mind high profile ones.

[Phil MaGlass]

Maka, shat his pants in one game after fans gave him abuse, then faked injury to be substituted, tells you all you need to know about him really.
I also had high hopes for him when he played for us, but it was´nt to be. Too many mistakes, couldnt catch a cold and some of the howlers he let in/dropped, man, glad he left in the end.
As for Stack he is definitely not gods gift to goalies, but i think he is the best we have at the moment and we should all get behind him and the team from now until the end of the season, THERES TOO MANY NEGATIVE THREADS ON HERE AT THE MOMENT. If it´s not Stack its Stevenson or Fenlon or Sproule or GOC or,or,or,or,or what is it with Hibs supporters (myself included at times) that we just cannae get behind our team in bad times, nae wonder the players prefer away games, thank god Hampden is an away game.:greengrin

[J-C]

Yes Stack had a good game and made some crucial saves but unfortunately 1 decent game in every 6 isn't enough to make me want him as our regular keeper.

[Pretty Boy]

Thanks for the support, Franck is God, but I've belatedly come to the conclusion that I'm an idiot, and completely wrong in all this. As other posters have explained, stats tell you nothing about a keeper's perfomances.

Think of it this way. Imagine we had a striker who had played 60 games for us, and had a better goalscoring record than any other striker we've had this century. Let's say he scored 40 goals. But he also missed some absolute sitters.

Clearly the right thing to do would be to bin him, and replace him with a striker who only scored half as many goals, but who didn't miss as many sitters. The reasons why this is the right thing to do are so obvious that they don't need stating in anything as humdrum as words. Should anybody query the logic, you just need to post one of these - :faf: - and your postition becomes unassailable. You can then harp on about a couple of the sitters the guy missed, while insisting that he was useless.

Take it from me, there are much more reliable ways to judge a striker than looking at his goalscoring record across sixty matches. One obvious one that springs to mind is slaughtering a chicken and examining its entrails.

Stats aren't worthless but they only tell you so much.

If we only based our opinions on stats then Andy Goram and Jim Leighton probably don't look like very good goalkeepers for us.

Would you honestly say Maka was a better keeper than 2 of the best keepers Scotland has ever produced?

The reliance on stats v Hearts and and the OF, or under any stats, is also invalid as it fails to take into account any mitigating factors eg the rest of the team is now considerably weaker than when Maka was in goals.

[cocopops1875]

Stats aren't worthless but they only tell you so much.

If we only based our opinions on stats then Andy Goram and Jim Leighton probably don't look like very good goalkeepers for us.

Would you honestly say Maka was a better keeper than 2 of the best keepers Scotland has ever produced?

The reliance on stats v Hearts and and the OF, or under any stats, is also invalid as it fails to take into account any mitigating factors eg the rest of the team is now considerably weaker than when Maka was in goals. sadly pretty boy I think he is actually saying that Maka was a better Hibs keeper than both Goram and Leighton stats prove all don't you know. Oh mark browns stats at ict suggest he was the best keeper in the spl booom stats are good

[blackpoolhibs]

Maka is a fantastic keeper, just look at how few goals he's let in over the last 3 years.

[Pretty Boy]

Maka is a fantastic keeper, just look at how few goals he's let in over the last 3 years.

Aah but he's warming the bench, if he's lucky, at a far higher level than us now.

[bawheid]

Stats aren't worthless but they only tell you so much.

If we only based our opinions on stats then Andy Goram and Jim Leighton probably don't look like very good goalkeepers for us.

Would you honestly say Maka was a better keeper than 2 of the best keepers Scotland has ever produced?

The reliance on stats v Hearts and and the OF, or under any stats, is also invalid as it fails to take into account any mitigating factors eg the rest of the team is now considerably weaker than when Maka was in goals.

Jim Leighton: Appearances - 178; Goals Conceded - 220 (average 1.24); Clean sheets - 58 (33%)

Pretty decent record.

[Pretty Boy]

Let's try and simplify this for you Pretty..Firstly,Blackpool is trying to wind me up..As I must admit he succeeded in doing a couple of years ago with his " staggering about in the area like a drunk waiter" comment. Got to admit I didn't twig until I met him.:))
Secondly...Do your best to try and absorb and rationalise this.
I believe Maka can do everything stack can do.
I also believe there are things Stack can't do that Maka can do!

Cool

[cocopops1875]

Let's try and simplify this for you Pretty..Firstly,Blackpool is trying to wind me up..As I must admit he succeeded in doing a couple of years ago with his " staggering about in the area like a drunk waiter" comment. Got to admit I didn't twig until I met him.:))
Secondly...Do your best to try and absorb and rationalise this.
I believe Maka can do everything stack can do.
I also believe there are things Stack can't do that Maka can do!
Award for the most patronizing and superior post I have read goes to this

[Keith_M]

It's true that statistics aren't everything but I think people dismiss/ignore some of the things that Maka did because of some high-profile mistakes. Amongst other things, he took a wander in the box against Hearts and gave away a goal. If he'd done that against another team, I don't think there would have been quite such a clamour from the fans to get rid. I've also seem him make some saves, often quite nonchalantly, that Brown, Smith, Stack et al would have needed a step ladder to reach.

I expect I'll get slaughtered for expressing my view, as it seems some people can't accept opposing opinions, but I don't think overrall that Maka was any worse than ANY keeper we've had since.

We are NOT a big club with a massive budget so have to accept that we'll always have players that aren't the complete package. That doesn't mean that I accept the current state of the squad as being acceptable but sometimes we go overboad with certain players flaws.

[Pretty Boy]

It's true that statistics aren't everything but I think people dismiss/ignore some of the things that Maka did because of some high-profile mistakes. Amongst other things, he took a wander in the box against Hearts and gave away a goal. If he'd done that against another team, I don't think there would have been quite such a clamour from the fans to get rid. I've also seem him make some saves, often quite nonchalantly, that Brown, Smith, Stack et al would have needed a step ladder to reach.

I expect I'll get slaughtered for expressing my view, as it seems some people can't accept opposing opinions, but I don't think overrall that Maka was any worse than ANY keeper we've had since.

We are NOT a big club with a massive budget so have to accept that we'll always have players that aren't the complete package. That doesn't mean that I accept the current state of the squad as being acceptable but sometimes we go overboad with certain players flaws.

I agree he wasn't any worse than some of what we have had before or since. He's also a top bloke into the bargain.

What gets me is a select group of posters who seem hell bent on criticising the club and fans for 'driving him out'. Add to this the personal vendetta a couple of them seem to have had against keepers who have come and gone, or hung around since and it gets a bit wearing. Some of it borders on hatred.

I've been open about saying I dont particularly rate Maka and i have doubts about him plying his trade at any great level in the future. Equally I've always acknowledged he was a nice guy and never doubted he tried his best for Hibs. I certainly haven't resorted to petty nicknames and a quite worrying obsession.

Not aimed at you by the way, just a general point.

[cocopops1875]

I agree he wasn't any worse than some of what we have had before or since. He's also a top bloke into the bargain.

What gets me is a select group of posters who seem hell bent on criticising the club and fans for 'driving him out'. Add to this the personal vendetta a couple of them seem to have had against keepers who have come and gone, or hung around since and it gets a bit wearing. Some of it borders on hatred.

I've been open about saying I dont particularly rate Maka and i have doubts about him plying his trade at any great level in the future. Equally I've always acknowledged he was a nice guy and never doubted he tried his best for Hibs. I certainly haven't resorted to petty nicknames and a quite worrying obsession.

Not aimed at you by the way, just a general point.

agree with this and the post above entirely

[blackpoolhibs]

Statistics can be manipulated to an extent, but one fact that cannot be denied, is Maka did pose for a photograph much better than any keeper before or since.

[bawheid]

I agree he wasn't any worse than some of what we have had before or since. He's also a top bloke into the bargain.

What gets me is a select group of posters who seem hell bent on criticising the club and fans for 'driving him out'. Add to this the personal vendetta a couple of them seem to have had against keepers who have come and gone, or hung around since and it gets a bit wearing. Some of it borders on hatred.

I've been open about saying I dont particularly rate Maka and i have doubts about him plying his trade at any great level in the future. Equally I've always acknowledged he was a nice guy and never doubted he tried his best for Hibs. I certainly haven't resorted to petty nicknames and a quite worrying obsession.

Not aimed at you by the way, just a general point.

Agree with this. I've nothing against Stack or Brown really. They're just relatively boring middle of the road goalkeepers. Stack had a great game on Sunday, but he's also had some poor games.

There's no doubt every little mistake Makalambay made was amplified though, for whatever reason. He was a better keeper than anyone we've had since.

[cocopops1875]

Statistics can be manipulated to an extent, but one fact that cannot be denied, is Maka did pose for a photograph much better than any keeper before or since.

And also at times rocked an awesome beard

[Danderhall Hibs]

Jim Leighton: Appearances - 178; Goals Conceded - 220 (average 1.24); Clean sheets - 58 (33%)

Pretty decent record.

You got Andy Goram's stats?

[blackpoolhibs]

And also at times rocked an awesome beard

Ah but there's not been many good footballers who've sported a beard over the years, i always found his best pictures were when clean shaven.

[Danderhall Hibs]

Ah but there's not been many good footballers who've sported a beard over the years, i always found his best pictures were when clean shaven.

Did you prefer it with gloves on or off? In the photos obviously.

[blackpoolhibs]

Did you prefer it with gloves on or off? In the photos obviously.

I preferred on, with the gloves on the right hands, he looked just like a goalkeeper.

[Andy74]

Agree with this. I've nothing against Stack or Brown really. They're just relatively boring middle of the road goalkeepers. Stack had a great game on Sunday, but he's also had some poor games.

There's no doubt every little mistake Makalambay made was amplified though, for whatever reason. He was a better keeper than anyone we've had since.

No, he wasn't.

This is the crux for me. He had the attributes to be a better keeper, at times he did take crosses brilliantly and he could go a week or two looking top class.

Unfortunately that is not what being a good keeper is about. It's about minimising mistakes, concentrating and delivering largely consistent performances.

They weren't amplified with Maka, he just made more very clear errors than the keepers who have been her since then. He was a nice guy and there was and is o reason for him to be picked on other than he made it is easy with his performances.

I agree with the other posters on this though, the backing of this guy to the extent that every keeper since has been hated is crazy.

[bawheid]

You got Andy Goram's stats?

It took me ages counting it all up on ihibs.co.uk for Leighton and I can't really be arsed doing it again for Goram.

Get Falkirk to do it. :agree:

[Keith_M]

Statistics can be manipulated to an extent, but one fact that cannot be denied, is Maka did pose for a photograph much better than any keeper before or since.


You should really have finished that with FACT!

:wink:

[blackpoolhibs]

You can't rely on Blackpool to anything right! The way he's wired the lighting systems in my wife's hairdressing salons is a disgrace.I'm constantly having to call him to get his erse back round to sort it is frightening!

You should really ask your wife why she keeps calling me round too. :wink:

[blackpoolhibs]

Hahahaha...I reckon it's all down to your illuminations :))

Well she did say i certainly light up her life. :greengrin

[blackpoolhibs]

..Hehe.. Lighting up her salons is her preferred option. Believe it or not,the Gary (that i mis-dial now and again when i call you by mistake) that did all the wiring etc etc for her places is Gary Hamilton .. Son of the Hearts player of old (Johnny)?..

I know, i bumped into him a couple of times. :wink:

[Nailrod]

Stats aren't worthless but they only tell you so much...
Personally, I'm a knucklebone-throwing man, me.


If we only based our opinions on stats then Andy Goram and Jim Leighton probably don't look like very good goalkeepers for us.

A claim that has already been shown to be utter bullkeech


The reliance on stats v Hearts and and the OF, or under any stats, is also invalid as it fails to take into account any mitigating factors eg the rest of the team is now considerably weaker than when Maka was in goals.
An argument that is slightly weakened by the fact that Hearts and the OF are also considerably weaker than "when Maka was in goals..." In fact they are currently utter keech, playing in one of the weakest leagues in Europe. They were all pumped out of Europe first-go last time they played there. And they still trounce us every time they get near us. And it's not Maka's fault any more.

So it must be the chicken entrails and the knuckle-bones.

[Nailrod]

You got Andy Goram's stats?

I seem to have lost three games somewhere, but barring that error factor of 2% his stats are:

Played 160
Goals against 165
Shutouts 61
Goals against ratio: 1.03
Shutout ratio: 38%

Awesome statistics. Even better than Leighton's.

Yet again proving that when it comes to judging a keeper, long term performance statistics are useless compared with chicken entrails, knuckle-bones, and :faf:...

[bawheid]

Jim Leighton: Appearances - 178; Goals Conceded - 220 (average 1.24); Clean sheets - 58 (33%)

Pretty decent record.


You got Andy Goram's stats?


Stats aren't worthless but they only tell you so much.

If we only based our opinions on stats then Andy Goram and Jim Leighton probably don't look like very good goalkeepers for us.



I seem to have lost three games somewhere, but barring that error factor of 2% his stats are:

Played 160
Goals against 165
Shutouts 61
Goals against ratio: 1.03
Shutout ratio: 38%

Awesome statistics. Even better than Leighton's.

Yet again proving that when it comes to judging a keeper, long term performance statistics are useless compared with chicken entrails, knuckle-bones, and :faf:...

Stats for Goram from ihibs.co.uk:

Andy Goram: Appearances - 163; Goals Conceded - 165 (average 1.01); Clean Sheets - 61 (37%)

As Nailrod points out, an incredible record. In season 87/88 Goram conceded only 26 goals in 37 appearances with 16 shutouts.

From the stats, Maka is just behind two of the best goalkeepers we've ever had. As we know though, the stats mean nothing. Goram was pish.

[Hibercelona]

If statistics don't show how good a goal keeper is, then what does? :confused:

The only thing that could scew statistics is the quality of the defence at the time that goalie is between the posts.

Considered our defence at the moment, Stack has done exceptionally well. I also though Maka was a decent solid keeper also.

[bawheid]

If statistics don't show how good a goal keeper is, then what does? :confused:


A complex equation using multiple variables which include:

The number of braincells Allan Preston is using at the time of the sum.
The number of spare minutes Richard Gordon has to squeeze in a segment about Hibs goalkeepers.
The number of vague recollections about mistakes keepers make from folk on the internet.

[Hibiza]

We've had some really pathetic goalies last few years.

[Danderhall Hibs]

If statistics don't show how good a goal keeper is, then what does? :confused:

The only thing that could scew statistics is the quality of the defence at the time that goalie is between the posts.


You partly answered your own question there mate. An additional metric for judging a goalie could be number of mistakes made.

I'm amazed at the Goram stats though and also amazed that folk genuinely believe that Allan Preston and Richard Gordon tell me what my opinion is.

As most people know stats can be twisted to let you see what you want to see. If you find one you like you can really bang on about it.

I actually backed Maka up for ages on here then had to give up the ghost - just too many mistakes in the end. I used to say what he needed was to play 2 games then sit one out - he couldn't do more than 2 (maybe 3) games in a row without chucking one in. Swansea and his new team have been letting him do the sit it out bit though and sure enough his reputation is being completely re-built.

[BEEJ]

By the way, especially for the Maka-Whackers, here are some more "meaningless statistics":

Matches against OF and Hearts:

With Maka: Played 21; Won 5; Drew 7; Lost 9; Goals against 26 (Av 1.24); Shut-outs 7 (Av 33%)
Post Maka: Played 24; Won 1; Drew 3; Lost 20; Goals against 52 (Av 2.17); Shut-outs 2 (Av 8%)
Love the way this is made out to be entirely due to a one man show. :cb

You do know that in all Maka's 64 appearances he played alongside:

Rob Jones (47 times)
Stephen Fletcher (46 times)
Ian Murray (35 times)
Bamba (24 times)
Shiels (24 times)
Beuzelin (21 times)
Zemmama (21 times)

That probably had something to do with those better results when Maka was around.

And in terms of management, nether Hughes nor CC (nor yet PF) covered themselves in glory in these high profile fixtures, particularly the derbies. An important factor.

[Nailrod]

Love the way this is made out to be entirely due to a one man show. :cb

You do know that in all Maka's 64 appearances he played alongside:

Rob Jones (47 times)
Stephen Fletcher (46 times)
Ian Murray (35 times)
Bamba (24 times)
Shiels (24 times)
Beuzelin (21 times)
Zemmama (21 times)

That probably had something to do with those better results when Maka was around.

And in terms of management, nether Hughes nor CC (nor yet PF) covered themselves in glory in these high profile fixtures, particularly the derbies. An important factor.

I don't recall many of these guys excellent performances as goalkeepers, so I'm not entirely sure which of them should be taking all the credit (since none of it whatsoever was in any way due to Maka) for the fact that we conceded half as many goals (26 against 52 ) and had more than three times as many shut-outs (7 against 2).

[BEEJ]

I don't recall many of these guys excellent performances as goalkeepers, so I'm not entirely sure which of them should be taking all the credit (since none of it whatsoever was in any way due to Maka) for the fact that we conceded half as many goals (26 against 52 ) and had more than three times as many shut-outs (7 against 2).
Well first of all you quoted W D L stats. You can safely say they are more to do with the entire team than with one individual within it.

As for shut-outs and goals conceded, defenders and defensive midfielders take their share of that responsibility. And if the attacking players in your side are effective then you spend more time in the opposition half than in your own, thereby lessening the goal threat of the opposing team.

If the calibre of the players that Maka was playing alongside back then was neither here nor there in the greater scheme of things then we should indeed ensure that we sign him again in the summer window.

Indeed he is the only new player we will need. It sounds like Maka combined with this season's outfield U-19s would stroll through next season.

Job done! :wink:

[Dinkydoo]

Stack should have at least tried to dive for the ball at their goal. I assume he thought it was going wide.

[Part/Time Supporter]

Stats for Goram from ihibs.co.uk:

Andy Goram: Appearances - 163; Goals Conceded - 165 (average 1.01); Clean Sheets - 61 (37%)

As Nailrod points out, an incredible record. In season 87/88 Goram conceded only 26 goals in 37 appearances with 16 shutouts.

From the stats, Maka is just behind two of the best goalkeepers we've ever had. As we know though, the stats mean nothing. Goram was pish.

Goals scored went down across the board during the 1980s and early 90s. That's why FIFA brought in the backpass rule.

[blackpoolhibs]

Stack should have at least tried to dive for the ball at their goal. I assume he thought it was going wide.

No chance with it, even Maka wouldn't have saved that. :wink:

[cocopops1875]

Stack should have at least tried to dive for the ball at their goal. I assume he thought it was going wide.
WOW just wow:confused:

[Dinkydoo]

WOW just wow:confused:

Yea, I was confused (and annoyed) too when Stack readjusted his feet, looked ready to dive to his right, and then watched the ball go into the net......

[Dinkydoo]

Yeh.. 20+ yards out..What about the cross he couldn't take under no pressure? And what about the numerous times crosses of all shapes and sizes came in and he doing the stuck to his line trick? We were very lucky Motherwell didn't take advantage on a lot of ocassions!

I actually thought he didn't do too badly today but I can't really think of many examples aside from the cross he collected in the next 'Well attack after their goal.....

I am quite hungover today and was watching the game in ESPN though!

[cocopops1875]

Yea, I was confused (and annoyed) too when Stack readjusted his feet, looked ready to dive to his right, and then watched the ball go into the net......

:aok: will get back to you once i have had the chance to see it on tv :agree:

[Eyrie]

Stack should have at least tried to dive for the ball at their goal. I assume he thought it was going wide.
As has been pointed out, you concede goals as a team. If Soares hadn't attempted the clearing header when facing the wrong direction, McPake would have cleared our lines. A communication issue, and if in doubt you have to try to clear the ball so I'm not blaming Soares for it - just pointing out how their goal arose.

[Dinkydoo]

As has been pointed out, you concede goals as a team. If Soares hadn't attempted the clearing header when facing the wrong direction, McPake would have cleared our lines. A communication issue, and if in doubt you have to try to clear the ball so I'm not blaming Soares for it - just pointing out how their goal arose.

Just watched it again; didn't see much of the build up the first time, and you're correct - any team (generally) concedes goals as a group, rather than it being all one persons fault.

Still think Stack should have made an attempt to save it though.

[cocopops1875]

Just watched it again; didn't see much of the build up the first time, and you're correct - any team (generally) concedes goals as a group, rather than it being all one persons fault.

Still think Stack should have made an attempt to save it though.

total slaver by the time it got past the defenders it was past stack :aok:

[Saorsa]

By the time it left the guy's boot it was past Stack..He saw the defenders diving in to block.But he still took a step in the wrong direction to cover a shot that was already covered .The rest is history!Nae doubt Makalamby would have saved it, eh! :rolleyes:

[blackpoolhibs]

You won't remember the "impossible" save Maka made at Ibrox a few years ago?.. His bottom left hand corner from Mendes? The ball was going in about a zillimetre inside the post.
Exceptional keepers make exceptional saves :))

:agree: Can you name me the last time maka made any sort of save, never mind an exceptional one? :na na:

[bawheid]

Goals scored went down across the board during the 1980s and early 90s. That's why FIFA brought in the backpass rule.

Makes Makalambay's stats seem even more impressive if Goram and Leighton were able to utilise the easy backpass to improve their figures.

[Hibercelona]

I think its pretty apparent now.

Any goal we ever conceed is somehow (without logic) the goal keepers fault. :rolleyes:

[Pretty Boy]

Makes Makalambay's stats seem even more impressive if Goram and Leighton were able to utilise the easy backpass to improve their figures.

The passback rule was well into being by the time Leighton played for us.

Everyone should remember that because his kicking was brutal.

[Pretty Boy]

Without checking I guess you're right on that one. Leighton's kicking was brutal in relation to his other attributes..

Back pass rule was introduced in 92, we signed Leighton in 93 so I was a bit out when I said well in place.

Leighton gave me the fear every time he kicked a ball. Was my first real football hero though along with Peter Schmeichel.

[blackpoolhibs]

Back pass rule was introduced in 92, we signed Leighton in 93 so I was a bit out when I said well in place.

Leighton gave me the fear every time he kicked a ball. Was my first real football hero though along with Peter Schmeichel.

To be fair to Jim, he was sometimes brutal with his kicking, but he put hour after hour in on the training ground, and did improve quite a lot.

[Pretty Boy]

To be fair to Jim, he was sometimes brutal with his kicking, but he put hour after hour in on the training ground, and did improve quite a lot.

Indeed.

I remember speaking to Andy Goram about Jim and he said he'd never seen a keeper work so hard on his game. Jim analysed everything and was always looking to improve.

He used to watch videos of goals he lost to see what he could have done differently.

[blackpoolhibs]

Yep.. He was very professional.I reckon those mega bandy legs made it hard for him to kick well.
I remember (think it was against the Huns) He made a penalty save or double save. Ref decided,surprisingly that a retake was in order.Leighton saved again!.... Can't remember if the double save was for the first or second penalty.. Think it was the second but remember thinking he just wasn't for having it going in.
It was at the Dumbar End.

We know why, dont we? :timebomb:

[Pretty Boy]

Yep.. He was very professional.I reckon those mega bandy legs made it hard for him to kick well.
I remember (think it was against the Huns) He made a penalty save or double save. Ref decided,surprisingly that a retake was in order.Leighton saved again!.... Can't remember if the double save was for the first or second penalty.. Think it was the second but remember thinking he just wasn't for having it going in.
It was at the Dumbar End.

Remember that.

Sure it was Brian Laudrup that took both penalties.

2-1 win for us that day i think.

[Stonewall]

The passback rule was well into being by the time Leighton played for us.

Everyone should remember that because his kicking was brutal.

Fabulous goalie though.

[Part/Time Supporter]

My take on Maka:

He had all the tools to be a really good goalkeeper. He should have stayed as 4th choice (or whatever) at Chelsea and learned his trade from top keepers there. Goalies don't need to be rushing out of a place like that at 20/21 years old to play regularly. Instead he signs permanently for Hibs without having played a senior game at any other level. Most other young keepers would go out on loan to (say) a League 1 or League 2 club first. I think his time at Hibs reflected all of that. He had the scope to perform very well at times, but would then let himself down with a bad error or two, perhaps due to that lack of experience.

He also didn't do himself any favours at times. Take for example, he played very well in a few games after the split in 2008/09. Kept a clean sheet at the PBS (1-0), then restricted the title-chasing gruesome twosome to one goal in 180 minutes (1-1 v Rangers and 0-0 v Celtic). His defenders (particularly Jones v the OF) played well in those games, but Makalambay also played very well. The kind of performances that make you think he had his time to think and learn and has now improved to a new level. Then he goes up to Aberdeen for the final game of the season and concedes that ridiculous goal by throwing the ball off Mackie's back and into the goal. Hibs appoint Yogi as manager 2-3 weeks later and one of the first things he does is look for a new goalie. He was turned down by a Spanish guy he had at Falkirk before he signed Stack. Now, it wouldn't be a stretch to suggest that if Maka had performed competently in the game at Aberdeen, finding a new first choice goalie wouldn't have been such a high priority (particularly with Jones and Fletcher being sold that summer).

[Winston Ingram]

Stack should have at least tried to dive for the ball at their goal. I assume he thought it was going wide.

Behave yersel. :rolleyes:



The only chance he would have had wi that was if he'd turned into Inspector Gadget