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View Full Version : Would Relegation Be a Blessing?



JohnScott
24-03-2012, 06:12 PM
I know it's touchy subject but would relegation really be such a bad thing at this moment in time? Some on here are asking for our youth players to be brought on but is that fair on them? I think not but I'm sure many of them could hold their own in the SFL.

Look at it realistically: Most of the present team will be off in the summer and PF will be trawling around Britain and Ireland for another half a dozen or so players. He'll again have a limited budget so the players will be not be world beaters. We'll plod along to January till again we'll be looking at loan signings and so it goes on. Fans want new manager, he changes squad..................

So what if we stick with Pat and drop into the First Division? Would it really be so bad? In fact I'd go so far as to suggest it would do us the power of good. Bring through our young lads and add a few experienced pros to bring them on. There's no way we're going down the route Hearts and Rangers have taken, especially with this board so we have to get real and get out there and grab the best young talent we can. A year or two in league one could be a blessing in disguise. Do you really fancy two trips next year to Dingwall?

Sean1875
24-03-2012, 06:15 PM
Relegation for Hibernian is not a good thing. In any way, shape or form.

Sammy7nil
24-03-2012, 06:18 PM
Yeah it would be GREAT I don't understand why we don.t do it more often.

P.S. no TV money waiting on our return this time around we can't buy our way out of Div 1 like last time.

Ask Dundee Falkirk Hamilton Partick how they are enjoying Div 1

hibee92
24-03-2012, 06:18 PM
No.

Hiber-nation
24-03-2012, 06:18 PM
A blessing? No way. We can't sign Sauzee, Latapy and Mixu this time. It would be an absolute disaster.

Sas_The_Hibby
24-03-2012, 06:19 PM
I know what you're saying but IMO there are so many things apparently wrong at the club, not just on the playing side, that I think there would be a high risk of us not getting back out of the First Division for several seasons, for less money to come in, for the fanbase to dwindle and for Hibs to become the Edinburgh equivalent of Dundee FC, i.e. an almost-permanently First Division club, living on faded memories of being in with the big boys..

Having said that, the alternative scenario of us fighting relegation every season in the SPL, which looks just as likely, is hardly any better.

How can a club with, presumably, the fourth largest resources in the SPL end up in such a sorry state?

Onion
24-03-2012, 06:20 PM
No:confused:

smurf
24-03-2012, 06:20 PM
No. We are Hibernian FC.

HUTCHYHIBBY
24-03-2012, 06:21 PM
No.

This.

glenn6270
24-03-2012, 06:21 PM
big IF we go down
we would not come back up
we are murder.
cant see pat fenlon turning us around at all .

Elephant Stone
24-03-2012, 06:23 PM
No.

MSK
24-03-2012, 06:28 PM
I know it's touchy subject but would relegation really be such a bad thing at this moment in time? Some on here are asking for our youth players to be brought on but is that fair on them? I think not but I'm sure many of them could hold their own in the SFL.

Look at it realistically: Most of the present team will be off in the summer and PF will be trawling around Britain and Ireland for another half a dozen or so players. He'll again have a limited budget so the players will be not be world beaters. We'll plod along to January till again we'll be looking at loan signings and so it goes on. Fans want new manager, he changes squad..................

So what if we stick with Pat and drop into the First Division? Would it really be so bad? In fact I'd go so far as to suggest it would do us the power of good. Bring through our young lads and add a few experienced pros to bring them on. There's no way we're going down the route Hearts and Rangers have taken, especially with this board so we have to get real and get out there and grab the best young talent we can. A year or two in league one could be a blessing in disguise. Do you really fancy two trips next year to Dingwall?Silly question ..

AndyM_1875
24-03-2012, 06:33 PM
Whilst it gave us time to consolidate to an extent
And I travelled to many of the away fixtures, I've no wish to go back down that road again.

Relegation cost Hibs 2.7m in 1998.

chrisski33
24-03-2012, 06:35 PM
I know it's touchy subject but would relegation really be such a bad thing at this moment in time? Some on here are asking for our youth players to be brought on but is that fair on them? I think not but I'm sure many of them could hold their own in the SFL.

Look at it realistically: Most of the present team will be off in the summer and PF will be trawling around Britain and Ireland for another half a dozen or so players. He'll again have a limited budget so the players will be not be world beaters. We'll plod along to January till again we'll be looking at loan signings and so it goes on. Fans want new manager, he changes squad..................

So what if we stick with Pat and drop into the First Division? Would it really be so bad? In fact I'd go so far as to suggest it would do us the power of good. Bring through our young lads and add a few experienced pros to bring them on. There's no way we're going down the route Hearts and Rangers have taken, especially with this board so we have to get real and get out there and grab the best young talent we can. A year or two in league one could be a blessing in disguise. Do you really fancy two trips next year to Dingwall?

Hmmmm the obvious and sensible answer is that no it wouldnt be a blessing! Theres no proof that we have youth players who would get us back up and if so why arent they getting a look in now? Id take trips to dingwall over relegation any day! No hibs fan wud see relegation as a good thing!

The_Todd
24-03-2012, 06:36 PM
It wouldn't be the end of the world, life would go on, and we'd probably go through a whole season without the embarrassment of being beaten 3 times by Hearts. We would be by no means assured of a straight bounce back up to the SPL, but this is Hibs and I'd still be along for the ride.

sleeping giant
24-03-2012, 06:42 PM
Good grief :rolleyes:

Albion Hibs
24-03-2012, 06:45 PM
Anyone that thinks relegation is a good thing is stupid, end of.

Financially it would kill us, and there is nothing like a guarantee we would come back up. Last time we spent our way back into the top league, we would have not a chance of doing this now.

SkintHibby
24-03-2012, 06:52 PM
If getting relegated means the end for Rod Petrie then I'd be ok with it.:agree:

As for not coming straight back up - nonsense, we'd be the RanTic of that league and would absolutely romp it (like last time).:agree:

IberianHibernian
24-03-2012, 06:52 PM
It wouldn`t be a blessing but if point is that it`d be easier to start building a new team there might be something in it . Problem is that there don`t seem to be many young players waiting to walk into first team even in first division - Stevenson , Hanlon and GOC were only players in squad today who came through youth system and players on loan are in 3rd division except Welsh . Also would Fenlon not be hounded out if we`re relegated ? Presumably relegation would bring other changes further up club which might change other aspects of club too . Anyway , time for everyone to rally round ( what about club doing something to boost crowds for reamaining matches - free / subsidised transport for away matches , free tickets for home matches for season ticket holders to give to friends and relatives etc ) so we don`t find out benefits of relegation IF there are any .

The_Todd
24-03-2012, 06:54 PM
If getting relegated means the end for Rod Petrie then I'd be ok with it.:agree:

As for not coming straight back up - nonsense, we'd be the RanTic of that league and would absolutely romp it (like last time).:agree:

Assuming of course we signed a Sauzee and a Latapy like last time. I have serious doubts about that. Make no mistake if we go down we may well stay for for a good while.

Sammy7nil
24-03-2012, 06:54 PM
If getting relegated means the end for Rod Petrie then I'd be ok with it.:agree:

As for not coming straight back up - nonsense, we'd be the RanTic of that league and would absolutely romp it (like last time).:agree:

Step back in to the real world :cb

There is NO Chance we would romp that league it would be very difficukt and with home crowds around the 7000 mark ER would be like a ghost ground

SkintHibby
24-03-2012, 06:58 PM
Assuming of course we signed a Sauzee and a Latapy like last time. I have serious doubts about that. Make no mistake if we go down we may well stay for for a good while.

We'd have about 4 times the income of the next closest club so we'd easily be able to recruit the best players to get out of that division. No problem.:agree:

SkintHibby
24-03-2012, 06:59 PM
Step back in to the real world :cb

There is NO Chance we would romp that league it would be very difficukt and with home crowds around the 7000 mark ER would be like a ghost ground

I was at the 15,000 v Falkirk game. Nuff said.

jdships
24-03-2012, 07:05 PM
Good grief :rolleyes:

My thought's too ! :rolleyes:

Sammy7nil
24-03-2012, 07:14 PM
I was at the 15,000 v Falkirk game. Nuff .said.

That was then this now :cb

It is a myth we had massive crowds last time around we only had 2 or 3 big crowds.

Trust me we would struggle we may get out but it would be a struggle.

woodyloon
24-03-2012, 07:30 PM
No it would bad for the club. The last we went down we were in a far better shape than we are just now, and I would really fear that we would not necessarily come straight back up.

But going by todays attitude and performance there is something wrong and has been ******ing away at the club for a while now, and we look like relegation favourites. I know a lot of fans think we will never go down, maybe the players think the same way, and maybe thats why we get such a lacklustre performance in matches as important as todays game, no matter how well United have played recently, you still need to make them work for a win, thats the hardest thing to swallow.

proud_and_green
24-03-2012, 07:34 PM
I know it's touchy subject but would relegation really be such a bad thing at this moment in time? Some on here are asking for our youth players to be brought on but is that fair on them? I think not but I'm sure many of them could hold their own in the SFL.

Look at it realistically: Most of the present team will be off in the summer and PF will be trawling around Britain and Ireland for another half a dozen or so players. He'll again have a limited budget so the players will be not be world beaters. We'll plod along to January till again we'll be looking at loan signings and so it goes on. Fans want new manager, he changes squad..................

So what if we stick with Pat and drop into the First Division? Would it really be so bad? In fact I'd go so far as to suggest it would do us the power of good. Bring through our young lads and add a few experienced pros to bring them on. There's no way we're going down the route Hearts and Rangers have taken, especially with this board so we have to get real and get out there and grab the best young talent we can. A year or two in league one could be a blessing in disguise. Do you really fancy two trips next year to Dingwall?

I do hope your tongue is firmly in your cheek and you are joking or perhaps playing devil's advocate.

If we go down, we will struggle to get back up in one season. And if we don't get back in one season we will be royally goosed as a club! In money terms we will lose too much and we have considerable bills to pay whatever the playing staff - East Mains and Easter Rad running costs plus loans and mortgages. Add to that to guarantee (although there is no real guarantee) promotion to the premier league you have to spend a lot more in proportion to your income than you do to stay up in the Premier League. So the implication of that is that you have to increase borrowings, which in turn means that your future spending power is reduced if you do get up because you have higher repayments ths reducing your disposable income!

Relegation will (would) be an absolute disaster for the club.

AndyM_1875
24-03-2012, 07:36 PM
We had some 5 figure crowds in Division 1 but the 2 big games were the home games against Falkirk. As Promotion started to become inevitable the crowds flooded in.
We also had the best manager , experienced hard players in the league with the biggest budget taking on the likes of Clydebank,Ayr and Stranraer.

Squealing pig
24-03-2012, 07:48 PM
Who was our starting 11 when we got relegated? Was just want to compare abit between two teams only seem to recall grant Brebner probably because he was our best player when we went down. Did we sign Franck, Russell and mixu when we got relegated?

Squealing pig
24-03-2012, 07:50 PM
We had some 5 figure crowds in Division 1 but the 2 big games were the home games against Falkirk. As Promotion started to become inevitable the crowds flooded in.
We also had the best manager , experienced hard players in the league with the biggest budget taking on the likes of Clydebank,Ayr and Stranraer.

Stranraer beat us at ER sure Clydebank done us too, we only lost the two all season I think

scuttle
24-03-2012, 07:52 PM
Relegation for Hibernian is not a good thing. In any way, shape or form.

Agreed,but IMO if we stay up next season will be just as bad.All the loans will need replaced along with the dead wood in the sqaud. Dont think Pat Fenlons style of play is attacking enough and I can see us struggling again. The future is bleak and it could take a few years to get back to somewhere near where we should be. Maybe worth giving some of the youth a try and give them experience for next season

Jim44
24-03-2012, 08:08 PM
In two separate polls on this message-board, 66% voted that winning the cup would be an acceptable consolation for demotion. I suspect that this notion was built on bravado and the belief that we would avoid relegation. With relegation now a distinct possibility, some would say probability, and a Cup Final win looking light years away, do the same numbers view the threat of relegation so lightly?

The_Todd
24-03-2012, 08:17 PM
In two separate polls on this message-board, 66% voted that winning the cup would be an acceptable consolation for demotion. I suspect that this notion was built on bravado and the belief that we would avoid relegation. With relegation now a distinct possibility, some would say probability, and a Cup Final win looking light years away, do the same numbers view the threat of relegation so lightly?

Would I prefer to win the Cup or stay up? Well, only one of those ends up in the trophy cabinet. Only one of those ends an unacceptable wait for a certain trophy and at the end of they day even if it takes 3 or 4 years to regain SPL status we'd always have Scottish Cup Winners 2012 in the record books.

Still, we won't win it anyway.

hibee_girl
24-03-2012, 09:24 PM
No it wouldn't, there's absolutely no way we'd come straight back up like last time.

Bad Martini
24-03-2012, 09:25 PM
No. It was ***** the last time and would be ***** again. It'd also cost us a fortune. Not good

Sean1875
24-03-2012, 09:29 PM
Agreed,but IMO if we stay up next season will be just as bad.All the loans will need replaced along with the dead wood in the sqaud. Dont think Pat Fenlons style of play is attacking enough and I can see us struggling again. The future is bleak and it could take a few years to get back to somewhere near where we should be. Maybe worth giving some of the youth a try and give them experience for next season

And were MUCH more likely to attract some decent talent to fill the squad with us in the SPL than the first division, yes we might struggle again for the next season or two but I have some strange confidence deep within me that within a couple seasons we will be back competing for European places, but only if we can stay in the SPL. And as said before, with half the squad disappearing I dont feel that confident we'd be able to attract good enough talent to get us to bounce straight back up a league.

brianmc
24-03-2012, 09:37 PM
We'd have about 4 times the income of the next closest club so we'd easily be able to recruit the best players to get out of that division. No problem.:agree:


We currently have a bigger player budget than the majority of our rivals in the league.
How would you say our ability to recruit better players than them its panning out??

CabbageBoy
24-03-2012, 09:47 PM
And were MUCH more likely to attract some decent talent to fill the squad with us in the SPL than the first division, yes we might struggle again for the next season or two but I have some strange confidence deep within me that within a couple seasons we will be back competing for European places, but only if we can stay in the SPL. And as said before, with half the squad disappearing I dont feel that confident we'd be able to attract good enough talent to get us to bounce straight back up a league.

Like we have this year?

Another wrong managerial appointment, a training ground that offers nothing but 19 year old loanees for Berwick and Stirling Albion's first teams, fees to agents and half a million to the board, aye the SPL gravy train is braw.

The dead hand on the tiller is dragging us down. I jumped into a lifeboat last year. Sad to see the ship go down though (have I stretched that metaphor enough?)

Sean1875
24-03-2012, 09:51 PM
Like we have this year?

Another wrong managerial appointment, a training ground that offers nothing but 19 year old loanees for Berwick and Stirling Albion's first teams, fees to agents and half a million to the board, aye the SPL gravy train is braw.

The dead hand on the tiller is dragging us down. I jumped into a lifeboat last year. Sad to see the ship go down though (have I stretched that metaphor enough?)

And you believe dropping to the first division will improve any of that..?
If we drop down a division we'll just spend the next few seasons trying to get back to this same situation were in just now, were not going to get promoted and suddenly become a top 6 force again. The SPL is the best place for us and is the place we belong. End of.

CabbageBoy
24-03-2012, 10:03 PM
And you believe dropping to the first division will improve any of that..?


No, I just believe it is inevitable, in the same way as it was in 80 and 98; you can't keep making short term decisions to stay up rather than build a proper team and it not come back to you at some point.

Hibernia&Alba
24-03-2012, 11:19 PM
It would be disastrous, possibly doing long term damage to the club and the team. Financially it would mean a really big hit, crowds would fall even further, and looking at the quality of some of the teams in Division One, we could be there for a long time. We could be in massive trouble if it happens.

21.05.2016
24-03-2012, 11:35 PM
Relegation would be a disaster and an embarrassment for this club. ENDOF IMO.

Eyrie
24-03-2012, 11:44 PM
We'd survive as a club, but unless we came straight back up again it would mean a long stay. On that basis I think Farmer and the board would be willing to incur significant losses to try to buy our way out at the first attempt, so I'd be optimistic of bouncing straight back.

Still think we'll stay up by the skin of our teeth though, and Fenlon is sharpening his axe for the summer rebuilding process.

Franck Stanton
24-03-2012, 11:46 PM
This has to be a wind-up. How anyone can seriously state relegation would be a good thing for the club really is living in cloud cookoo land. Get real .

IberianHibernian
24-03-2012, 11:59 PM
Don`t think anyone`s said relegation would be a good thing but I think there is a genuine concern that we could carry on like now , finish 11th and find ourselves in a similar situation a year from now , not just on pitch but also with even lower crowds and more apathy amongst support . Whatever some accountants may say , last relegation stimulated club from boardroom level to fans . We couldn`t afford to sign equivalent of Sauzee or Latapy in First div or SPL now but would present directors even give manager / scouts chance to look for players abroad in Div 1 or SPL ?

Baader
25-03-2012, 08:08 AM
It would be a total disaster for us. Catastrophic. There is too much empathy and ill feeling around the club already.

Forget about 1998 and watch us become Dundee...

We are fighting for our lives and cannot think losing this battle is in any way a good thing for the club

SquashedFrogg
25-03-2012, 08:24 AM
Silly question ..

People may not agree with the OP's rationale but it's hardly a 'silly' question. :rolleyes: Our last last venture in division one ended successfully and was surprisingly quite enjoyable in the end but as is pointed out, circumstances are different this time.

I think it's fair to say no-one wants to see their team get relegated but based on the utter gash that we've had to endure over the last number of seasons in the SPL, I wouldn't be as gutted as I may once have been should we go down. I guess that sums up how fed up I am of what we have to endure each week.

I'm not that interested in the financial implications being debated either. We'd simply have to cut our cloth for the division we are in.

The question has been raised recently about the impact of the sky deal collapsing with regards to reduced finances etc and frankly I couldn't care less. I just want to turn up on a Saturday and see honest, competitive football. Couldn't really give a toss if players were only on £200 per week.

Just to clarify, I don't want us to get relegated. Worryingly, I'm just not as bothered with the prospect as I once would've been..

AFKA5814_Hibs
25-03-2012, 09:10 AM
Who was our starting 11 when we got relegated? Was just want to compare abit between two teams only seem to recall grant Brebner probably because he was our best player when we went down. Did we sign Franck, Russell and mixu when we got relegated?

Hibs team v Dundee United when we were relegated was



B Gunn (http://www.soccerbase.com/players/player.sd?player_id=3143), W Miller (http://www.soccerbase.com/players/player.sd?player_id=5462), D Elliot (http://www.soccerbase.com/players/player.sd?player_id=8995), G Brebner (http://www.soccerbase.com/players/player.sd?player_id=945), J Hughes (http://www.soccerbase.com/players/player.sd?player_id=9207),D Dods (http://www.soccerbase.com/players/player.sd?player_id=9188), A Rougier (http://www.soccerbase.com/players/player.sd?player_id=9268) (P Tosh (http://www.soccerbase.com/players/player.sd?player_id=8006), 80), S Crawford (http://www.soccerbase.com/players/player.sd?player_id=1742),B Lavety (http://www.soccerbase.com/players/player.sd?player_id=11148), P McGinlay (http://www.soccerbase.com/players/player.sd?player_id=5104), A Dow (http://www.soccerbase.com/players/player.sd?player_id=2144)




Mixu's debut was on 12 September, 2-0 defeat at St Mirren, Latapy's was 24th October, 3-3 draw at Ayr, Sauzee's was 2-1 win at Falkirk on 20th February. Fair to say that the league was all but tied up by the time Sauzee had arrived, but the signings of Mixu and Latapy were the key.

Hibs would not be able to attract the players of that calibre if we were relegated this season and I think the 1st division is a much tougher league than it was back then.

NAE NOOKIE
25-03-2012, 09:49 AM
This has to be a wind-up. How anyone can seriously state relegation would be a good thing for the club really is living in cloud cookoo land. Get real .

He wasnt saying it would be a good thing, just asking if it would turn out to be a good thing, based on our last relegation which turned the club around in the long run.

Before yesterdays game I didnt think we would beat Dundee Utd, but the difference in quality between them and us on the day, especially in the second half, was extremely worrying. We didnt have anyone in the team near the quality of Russell, Daly or McKay - Stevens and this was Dundee Utd, not the OF or the Yams.

For the most part this ( and last ) season what has been worrying is the fact that just about every team which has visited ER seems to be able to pass and move, find space and hold the ball better than us. It always seems to me that Hibs seem to be playing a different type of football where we are the team away from home trying to stop the opposition rather than making them work to stop us.

I for one think this is down to the players we have been bringing in who seem ponderous and slow compared to other teams players.

Ladies and gentlemen I give you: O'Connor, Osbourne, Spooney as examples.

The model we should be following is that of Athletic Bilbao who's workrate, passing, movement and intelligence against Man Utd was mind blowing and enabled them to humble a team who cost a fortune compared to them.

Pat Fenlon could do a lot worse than spend a month over there finding out what they are doing to achieve that. Dont give me the they are all local lads stuff, there must be more to it than that.

Sorry, thread hijacked a wee bit.

DH1875
25-03-2012, 10:07 AM
big IF we go down we would not come back up we are murder. cant see pat fenlon turning us around at all . Spot on. IF we go down, Fenlon should be nowhere near ER next season.

GreenArmy1875
25-03-2012, 11:52 AM
Ive thought about this a few times but i am not sure it would be good for us but i can see the points for this and against. There is something at the club that stinks and it has done for the last 2/3 seasons. Its as if players come to us and see it as easy; big stadium, brand new training centre, Nice wee wage and half days at training. I think we just seem to accept these season after season of these duds and teams put out.