Sky to pull out of £80m deal if OF not in the SPL

[matty_f]

Reported on STV tonight that Sky have a get out clause in the tv deal whereby they can pull the deal if one or both of the Old Firm are not in the SPL.

The talk on the show was around how that would likely mean Sky essentially dictating that Rangers would remain in the league, regardless of anything that they are potentially found guilty of (with the obvious exception of liquidation, to which Sky have no say over.).

IMHO, the SPL have to do the right thing for sporting integrity and NOT let the potential loss of revenue come into the decision over what sanctions to take against Rangers should they be found guilty. I think that bowing to Sky's demands in something as serious as this will kill the game in Scotland far, far more than taking money out of it will.

There's already been a former Rangers director on tv this week stating that football was corrupt as it is, and if the SPL/SFA turn a blind eye to any crimes (should they be proven) that Rangers have committed for the sake of keeping a tv deal, well, then they can shove their league up their hoops, as far as I'm concerned.

It's one thing having to watch the OF dominate Scottish football for as long as they have, it's quite another to find out one half has been cheating the whole time and the'ye got free reign to carry on.

[SteveHFC]

At least without Sky and Espn. We would get more 3pm kick off's on a Saturday :cb

[snooky]

Reported on STV tonight that Sky have a get out clause in the tv deal whereby they can pull the deal if one or both of the Old Firm are not in the SPL.The talk on the show was around how that would likely mean Sky essentially dictating that Rangers would remain in the league, regardless of anything that they are potentially found guilty of (with the obvious exception of liquidation, to which Sky have no say over.).

IMHO, the SPL have to do the right thing for sporting integrity and NOT let the potential loss of revenue come into the decision over what sanctions to take against Rangers should they be found guilty. I think that bowing to Sky's demands in something as serious as this will kill the game in Scotland far, far more than taking money out of it will.

There's already been a former Rangers director on tv this week stating that football was corrupt as it is, and if the SPL/SFA turn a blind eye to any crimes (should they be proven) that Rangers have committed for the sake of keeping a tv deal, well, then they can shove their league up their hoops, as far as I'm concerned.

It's one thing having to watch the OF dominate Scottish football for as long as they have, it's quite another to find out one half has been cheating the whole time and the'ye got free reign to carry on.

Brilliant! We can get rid of a three-headed monster in one swoop. :thumbsup:

[Bishop Hibee]

Reported on STV tonight that Sky have a get out clause in the tv deal whereby they can pull the deal if one or both of the Old Firm are not in the SPL.

The talk on the show was around how that would likely mean Sky essentially dictating that Rangers would remain in the league, regardless of anything that they are potentially found guilty of (with the obvious exception of liquidation, to which Sky have no say over.).

IMHO, the SPL have to do the right thing for sporting integrity and NOT let the potential loss of revenue come into the decision over what sanctions to take against Rangers should they be found guilty. I think that bowing to Sky's demands in something as serious as this will kill the game in Scotland far, far more than taking money out of it will.

There's already been a former Rangers director on tv this week stating that football was corrupt as it is, and if the SPL/SFA turn a blind eye to any crimes (should they be proven) that Rangers have committed for the sake of keeping a tv deal, well, then they can shove their league up their hoops, as far as I'm concerned.

It's one thing having to watch the OF dominate Scottish football for as long as they have, it's quite another to find out one half has been cheating the whole time and the'ye got free reign to carry on.

I'm at the stage where I'd rather watch a competitive league of a lower standard than one where we bend over to the OF until they engineer their exit from Scottish football.

Murdoch, get tae......

[blindsummit]

I'm at the stage where I'd rather watch a competitive league of a lower standard than one where we bend over to the OF until they engineer their exit from Scottish football.

Murdoch, get tae......

Absolutely! The only ones greetin would be the OF. We get hee haw out of these deals anyway. If we can get rid of the OF and Sky that is a result. Rid the Scottish game of them and their foul stench :thumbsup:

[DC_Hibs]

I'm at the stage where I'd rather watch a competitive league of a lower standard than one where we bend over to the OF until they engineer their exit from Scottish football.
.....

You (and thousands of fans) might be but there's no fekn danger that the decision makers at the clubs would risk losing a TV deal as the majority of them would see their respective stakes in their clubs substantially drop in value as a result (Rodders 10% as an example!).

There's too many of them already filling their pants at the prospect of losing one or two lots of ticket money from the huns visit/s each season never mind losing millions from a TV deal.

Unfortunately the much needed change to Scottish football is some way off due to self preservation.


p.s Some headline writer the boy Matty is he no - scaremongering that a tabloid would be proud of.

[jgl07]

The best news for ages.

That will clear the way for SPL expansion.

[IWasThere2016]

OF GTF :bye:

[BarneyK]

p.s Some headline writer the boy Matty is he no - scaremongering that a tabloid would be proud of.

Nah, not scaremongering at all, just the truth. If Sky are allowed to dictate who is and who who isn't allowed in the league then sporting integrity is finished. Let's not forget, they probably also get a reduction if either of the old firm drop out of the top 6 and they don't get their precious 4 old firm games per season. Something stinks.

[Onion]

Nah, not scaremongering at all, just the truth. If Sky are allowed to dictate who is and who who isn't allowed in the league then sporting integrity is finished. Let's not forget, they probably also get a reduction if either of the old firm drop out of the top 6 and they don't get their precious 4 old firm games per season. Something stinks.

:agree:Any right minded person - let alone football fan - would agree with this. It's like an athlete being found guilty of drug-taking but allowed to keep their medals and run in the Olympics - madness.

However, football clubs are companies with a legal duty to grow/maintain shareholder value and so will have little option but to find a way of reinstating Rangers to the SPL if that's what it take to maintain the TV income. Abhorrent as it is, you just know this will happen. The only question left, is what non-OF fans will do about it. The non-OF fans are the ONLY ones who really care about the integrity of the game in Scotland; everyone else, Sky, the media, the OF and the 10 are "really" only interested in how much money they can squeeze out of the public.

[faffkid]

Well cheery-****ing-bye then!

[cad]

IMO the biggest problems in Scottish football are Celtic , Rangers , The Suits ,and Sky.

Chairmen of the other 10 teams would be better asking there own fans whats what regarding the demons above.
I think more than a few would call it a day if it continues on in a similar fashion , cut your cloth accordingly ,drop our standards because of the wages we can afford to pay , Scottish football finding its own level , 6 teams in with a shout of winning a league , getting rid of The OF and Sky , 3 o clock kick offs on a Saturday , more people would want to go ,better chance of winning a league , European football .
TBH Im afraid I don't see any down side to losing The OF ,The Suits and Sky , if I can go to Easter Road on a Saturday at 3 oclock watch my team
no having to listen to The Old Firms pish ,Im happy as for The Suits well I would think they better have there answer ready for UEFA and the shambles that has happened on there watch , Sky they can do one

[soupy]

It cany come quickly enough for me, the old firm and Sky can do one....

[Gatecrasher]

Nah, not scaremongering at all, just the truth. If Sky are allowed to dictate who is and who who isn't allowed in the league then sporting integrity is finished. Let's not forget, they probably also get a reduction if either of the old firm drop out of the top 6 and they don't get their precious 4 old firm games per season. Something stinks.
It amazes me that a deal like this is actually ALLOWED! As you say something really stinks

[bingo70]

Bear in mind we wouldn't actually lose 80m between the clubs, I'm sure another tv deal would get struck with another company and if we could combine that with better kick off times and a more competitive league we probably wouldn't be much worse off, if we actually improved on the park our gates would go up so could quite easily make up the shortfall, although I appreciate it may not be the same for other clubs.

[easty]

More chance of Kevin Kyles next job being a Justun Bieber lookalike than of the other SPL teams giving up the Sky deal.

There will be nae clause in the players contracts saying that they get less in the event of nae deal with Sky. Without the Sky money a lot of clubs just wouldn't have the money to continue.

[GreenPJ]

Bear in mind we wouldn't actually lose 80m between the clubs, I'm sure another tv deal would get struck with another company and if we could combine that with better kick off times and a more competitive league we probably wouldn't be much worse off, if we actually improved on the park our gates would go up so could quite easily make up the shortfall, although I appreciate it may not be the same for other clubs.

Any new TV deal would be a fraction of what Sky paid. You are assuming that 3:00 kick-offs will have an impact on attendances and a more competitive league too, however, both take time before you might see any increase. Clubs need money now to service debt now.

I would love Sky to disappear along with the OF (or at least an equitable share of money with the OF) but without some emergency funding being provided by the SPL/Scottish Government to clubs I just don't think the clubs will be willing to bet on a gamble when their debts needs to be paid back now.

[hibbiedon]

Reported on STV tonight that Sky have a get out clause in the tv deal whereby they can pull the deal if one or both of the Old Firm are not in the SPL.

The talk on the show was around how that would likely mean Sky essentially dictating that Rangers would remain in the league, regardless of anything that they are potentially found guilty of (with the obvious exception of liquidation, to which Sky have no say over.).

IMHO, the SPL have to do the right thing for sporting integrity and NOT let the potential loss of revenue come into the decision over what sanctions to take against Rangers should they be found guilty. I think that bowing to Sky's demands in something as serious as this will kill the game in Scotland far, far more than taking money out of it will.

There's already been a former Rangers director on tv this week stating that football was corrupt as it is, and if the SPL/SFA turn a blind eye to any crimes (should they be proven) that Rangers have committed for the sake of keeping a tv deal, well, then they can shove their league up their hoops, as far as I'm concerned.

It's one thing having to watch the OF dominate Scottish football for as long as they have, it's quite another to find out one half has been cheating the whole time and the'ye got free reign to carry on.

Who gets the lions share of the money ? OF GTF

[Steve-O]

How much do clubs actually get from Sky? It's a pretty pitiful amount is it not? Does anyone notice the difference from the days of the dirt cheap BBC deal of a few years ago? The standard is worse than it was then IMO. Sky can GTF and as others have said, a blind eye being turned to Hun wrongdoings will just see more people turning their backs on SPL.

[Onion]

The financial impact on the SPL 10 isn't even close to £80m (a good headline figure!). Firstly the vast majority of any Sky money goes to the OF. Next, Celtic and (New Rangers) will have nowhere to go, so will continue to play in Scotland - whether they like it or not. Someone other than Sky (ESPN ?, Celtic TV ? , ITV ? ANother TV) will want to cover the matches, reach the OF Fans (and non-OF Scottish audience) and WILL pay good money to the SPL 10 to do so.

[blackpoolhibs]

Bear in mind we wouldn't actually lose 80m between the clubs, I'm sure another tv deal would get struck with another company and if we could combine that with better kick off times and a more competitive league we probably wouldn't be much worse off, if we actually improved on the park our gates would go up so could quite easily make up the shortfall, although I appreciate it may not be the same for other clubs.

:agree: Its a scare story deigned to frighten us into taking it up the erse again. Football is quickly going down the pan in Scotland in its present mould, unless radical changes are made it will die.

Going back to basics, 3pm saturdays with lower prices and kids getting more chances is the only way forward. If that means a lower standard to start with, so be it. I'm pretty sure a more competitive league with kids getting their chance rather than going for the quick fix of overpriced journeymen, will bring us a better product in the end.

More of the same is not an option, its only a means of keeping highly paid losers in a job.

[NAE NOOKIE]

This situation sums it up really.

We have allowed the financial side of our game to be so tied in to the OF that we cant even punish their indiscretions without everybody else suffering as a result.

FIFA have a rule that any country where the government interfere in the running of the national team will ( and has ) result in that country being suspended from FIFA competitions.

It would appear however that TV companies can interfere in the running of domestic football and get away with this. UEFA should have a system in place where no TV deal can be agreed which effectively gives the TV company the power to say who is or isnt allowed to be in the league.

This isnt the fault of SKY who were only going for a deal which they thought would maximise their viewing figures. The SPL and UEFA are to blame for allowing such deals to be made without thinking of the possible consequences.

The only answer is to do the right thing and rip the erse out of the deal and put up with the result. Anyway, the whole deal might not be dead, just worth a hell of a lot less money.

We have to do the right thing NOW no matter how painfull or just admit that Scottish football is run by the OF and we all go home !!!

[CentreLine]

Reported on STV tonight that Sky have a get out clause in the tv deal whereby they can pull the deal if one or both of the Old Firm are not in the SPL.

The talk on the show was around how that would likely mean Sky essentially dictating that Rangers would remain in the league, regardless of anything that they are potentially found guilty of (with the obvious exception of liquidation, to which Sky have no say over.).

IMHO, the SPL have to do the right thing for sporting integrity and NOT let the potential loss of revenue come into the decision over what sanctions to take against Rangers should they be found guilty. I think that bowing to Sky's demands in something as serious as this will kill the game in Scotland far, far more than taking money out of it will.

There's already been a former Rangers director on tv this week stating that football was corrupt as it is, and if the SPL/SFA turn a blind eye to any crimes (should they be proven) that Rangers have committed for the sake of keeping a tv deal, well, then they can shove their league up their hoops, as far as I'm concerned.

It's one thing having to watch the OF dominate Scottish football for as long as they have, it's quite another to find out one half has been cheating the whole time and the'ye got free reign to carry on.

:agree: Scottish football dies on the altar of credibility if Rangers are found to have been corrupt and they fail to take action. If that happens I'm out

[keep the faith]

It amazes me that a deal like this is actually ALLOWED! As you say something really stinks

Yes. the Spl signed a deal dependant in two club being in the division.

How is that fair play? How could you argue being independant when you sign a deal making your main source of income dependant on the sucess of two teams??

Peter lawell accuses the spl of wanting a competitive league on a par with league of iceland or wales rather than a "different" one with the old firm. what arrogance. i would rather a smaller competitive league actually.

This is the time. for gods sake grow a pair scottish football. Take the step back financially to give us a brighter future.

[bingo70]

Any new TV deal would be a fraction of what Sky paid. You are assuming that 3:00 kick-offs will have an impact on attendances and a more competitive league too, however, both take time before you might see any increase. Clubs need money now to service debt now.

I would love Sky to disappear along with the OF (or at least an equitable share of money with the OF) but without some emergency funding being provided by the SPL/Scottish Government to clubs I just don't think the clubs will be willing to bet on a gamble when their debts needs to be paid back now.

I used to think the same as you and you're probably right about what the clubs will vote for, I think they should look at it from a different angle though.

We've got the tv deal now and the product is pish and only heading in one direction so sticking with what we've got in the hope it just improves is a far bigger gamble than taking a short term hit and losing money but long term bringing through more young players, paying less to journeymen players and hopefully attracting back fans again.

If we always do what we've always done we'll always get what we've always got and we've always bent over to the old firm and tv deals and the leagues been on a steady decline for years so why not try some proper radical changes, we've nothing to lose

[Steve-O]

At the end of the day clubs are not overspending in the same manner before Sky pulled out 10 years ago. There were some hard times back then but nobody went out of business did they? Scaremongering, Sky can shove their pishy deal.

[Jim44]

This situation sums it up really.

We have allowed the financial side of our game to be so tied in to the OF that we cant even punish their indiscretions without everybody else suffering as a result.

FIFA have a rule that any country where the government interfere in the running of the national team will ( and has ) result in that country being suspended from FIFA competitions.

It would appear however that TV companies can interfere in the running of domestic football and get away with this. UEFA should have a system in place where no TV deal can be agreed which effectively gives the TV company the power to say who is or isnt allowed to be in the league.

This isnt the fault of SKY who were only going for a deal which they thought would maximise their viewing figures. The SPL and UEFA are to blame for allowing such deals to be made without thinking of the possible consequences.

The only answer is to do the right thing and rip the erse out of the deal and put up with the result. Anyway, the whole deal might not be dead, just worth a hell of a lot less money.

We have to do the right thing NOW no matter how painfull or just admit that Scottish football is run by the OF and we all go home !!!

Last paragraph says it all but nothing's going to change. Welcome back Rangers, it' s just like you haven't been away.

[cad]

Bear in mind we wouldn't actually lose 80m between the clubs, I'm sure another TV deal would get struck with another company and if we could combine that with better kick off times and a more competitive league we probably wouldn't be much worse off, if we actually improved on the park our gates would go up so could quite easily make up the shortfall, although I appreciate it may not be the same for other clubs.



That's it exactly Bingo , I don't know what Hibs cut is from the Sky deal ,it will have been posted before but getting punters back through the gates with all the things mentioned above, would be a hell of a lot easier to sell to Hibs fans than the keek we have just now , X amount of supporters making up the shortfall .
The entire Scottish footballing arena would change over night ,6 teams with a shout of winning the league ,every other week its a 50/50 shot because your all much about the same , bigger crowds urging the boys on etc ,don't forget every other teams support in Scotland will think Hibs will be a push over,the feel good factor kicks in ,it proves its going somewhere ,the crowds are back you maybe get a TV deal but if its up and its bringing the crowds back who's going to be first at the door with a deal, because ***** as Scottish football is and cutting all ties with the SPL ,Sky's punters don't want to watch ice skating or basketball or tennis on a Saturday or whenever , they want football The Old Firm for obvious reasons was the road they went down thats there choice fine.
Always remember they would drop you like a hot brick if there was anything else the could get into and it may well happen in years to come ,WHY WAIT do them before they do you let them play in there bubble let Sky can televise it , while the rest of the normal people in Scotland get on with supporting there team and watching a GAME of football , not what these 2 clubs fans have used Scottish football for , for over 140 years, the thing is do we carry on as is , and let generation after generation put up with theyre pish because we didnt act when we had the chance or do we change .

GGTTH

[Hibrandenburg]

Someone else said it on another thread and I thought the comparison was quite fitting. But if the driving force behind Scottish football remains to be TV money instead of competition and sporting excellence, then the game here is no better than American Wrestling. I for one have no interest in watching a sport where the winners are decided before a ball has even been kicked.

[blackpoolhibs]

Someone else said it on another thread and I thought the comparison was quite fitting. But if the driving force behind Scottish football remains to be TV money instead of competition and sporting excellence, then the game here is no better than American Wrestling. I for one have no interest in watching a sport where the winners are decided before a ball has even been kicked.

:agree: Football in Scotland is at a crossroads, take the wrong road and they could lose a lot of fans for ever.

[Killiehibbie]

Sky can withdraw from Scottish football and take those two with them because if they are allowed to dictate who plays in what league I and many others will not be back.

[Ritchie]

This is the perfect time to reform!

Tell the OF and Sky to gtf, combine the 10 non-old firm Teams with the first division and combine the 2nd and 3rd division to form two20 team leagues with proper play-off systems and a chance for non-league teams to be promoted into the league.

That would get a bit of much needed interet back in the game.

Never going to happen though

[Craig_in_Prague]

Summer football, bigger leagues, more promotions and play-offs, no OF and pishy kick off times for TV, safe standing terraces as much as possible, better surfaces, more Scots coming through into teams and hopefully an enjoyable competitive set-up.

We are scared of change though in Scotland and get all weak at the knees and nod to whatever the OF want. Fk them and let's get out and rebuild our footballing nation!!

[blackpoolhibs]

Summer football, bigger leagues, more promotions and play-offs, no OF and pishy kick off times for TV, safe standing terraces as much as possible, better surfaces, more Scots coming through into teams and hopefully an enjoyable competitive set-up.

We are scared of change though in Scotland and get all weak at the knees and nod to whatever the OF want. Fk them and let's get out and rebuild our footballing nation!!

:agree:

[cad]

Summer football, bigger leagues, more promotions and play-offs, no OF and pishy kick off times for TV, safe standing terraces as much as possible, better surfaces, more Scots coming through into teams and hopefully an enjoyable competitive set-up.

We are scared of change though in Scotland and get all weak at the knees and nod to whatever the OF want. Fk them and let's get out and rebuild our footballing nation!!




Maybe you could take it to another scenario , being a professional footballer ,diet training a full commitment to your career ,rather than playing at it with the beer and a pie brigade ,JC ,Paul Le Guen change the players dont like it , change The OF and Sky they dont like it,
who's suffering here ,the punters you, me, why do we pay for it ,if you did your job badly your boss would kick your arse ,a warning or 2 then oot the door , if hes got more than one your all doon the road.
For a nation that has inventivness in abundance , has been and is at the forefront of most things medicine ,engineering computing ,etc its a pity our football is stuck in the dark ages , will it continue to do so because at TV company gives you some silver for TV ratings so they can show the world the zoo in Glasgow close up 6 or more times a year , the supporters are Scottish football not Sky our various clubs and boards should remember this come season ticket time.

[SetonClapper]

We may believe, rightly or wrongly, that we might be able to plug any gaps caused by losing Sky TV money with increased attendances at 3:00 pm. However, I suspect that many of the teams smaller than Hibs will not be able to. I don't what the distribution of Sky TV money is, but I would imagine that the smaller the club, the greater their reliance on that money. Even in a smaller league without the OF, they probably won't be competitive. Sadly, after many years of capitulation, the non OF clubs have backed themselves into a corner.

[erskine-hibby]

Any club worth their salt would not have their financial situation centred around TV money. If they have then they have learned nothing from the last time Sky pulled out...more shame on them.
Apart from the fact that the TV deal is not the best, I would predict that, if the league was more competitive (with or without the OF), that more people would attend and therefore revenue would increase anyway.
I for one would not care a hoot if Sky pull out as it is only there to service the OF.

[StevieC]

The thing is that SKY have not said, to be best of my knowledge, that they are going to pull out.

"Reported on STV tonight that Sky have a get out clause"

This is something that we all knew weeks ago when Doncaster was going on about how we "needed" a 10 team league and how a larger league wasn't possible because of the SKY deal (and 4 OF games a season).

This sounds to me like Doncaster/Rangers/Celtic (take your pick) have once again tried a bit of scaremongering on the back of the SPL 10 meeting to try and shake things up.

I dont doubt that there IS a clause but I suspect it would result in a reduced deal rather than no deal at all. If the deal was even halved though then Hibs, in their current position, might only notice a difference of £150k-£200k. Personally I think we're looking at a bigger loss from lost season ticket holders not renewing than a clause in a TV deal, so it's not the huge issue that "they're" trying to make out.

I certainly dont think the SPL 10 should be backing down on the basis of a reduced TV deal.

[green&left]

No SKY, please be true.

'Mon the Rebels.

[down the slope]

Yes. the Spl signed a deal dependant in two club being in the division.

How is that fair play? How could you argue being independant when you sign a deal making your main source of income dependant on the sucess of two teams??

Peter lawell accuses the spl of wanting a competitive league on a par with league of iceland or wales rather than a "different" one with the old firm. what arrogance. i would rather a smaller competitive league actually.

This is the time. for gods sake grow a pair scottish football. Take the step back financially to give us a brighter future.

The bit Lawell said about having a league like the welsh or Iceland he could have said we get a league like Denmark or Norway or Sweden all who do better internationally than we do . Call their bluff is say.

[Gus]

All these folk saying sky is the route of all evil i assume will be cancelling their monthly subscriptions?

[blackpoolhibs]

All these folk saying sky is the route of all evil i assume will be cancelling their monthly subscriptions?

Not had sky for years, much prefer dodgy streams now.

[Saorsa]

Summer football, bigger leagues, more promotions and play-offs, no OF and pishy kick off times for TV, safe standing terraces as much as possible, better surfaces, more Scots coming through into teams and hopefully an enjoyable competitive set-up.

We are scared of change though in Scotland and get all weak at the knees and nod to whatever the OF want. Fk them and let's get out and rebuild our footballing nation!!:top marks


As far as I'm concerned SKY TV and the OF can GTF :bye:

If the stickies come out of this unscathed and in the top division then Scottish fitba is finished as far as I'm concerned, it'll lose any shred of credibility and integrity it has left and I'll certainly be finished with it.

[Steven_Hibs]

If Sky have this kind of deal then shame on them. Shows how pathetic they are really. Hope Al-Jazeera outbid them for the EPL, and then come in with a nice wee tidy bid for the SPL (one its reformed without Rangers and Celtic) :greengrin

[Vini1875]

I agree there needs to be reform but it is daft to exclude a couple of clubs. The system is skewed in favour of the OF, but it was the SPL clubs who allowed this to happen and bottled it the last time we arrived at this point. They must stand firm now and sort out the mess, but still include the OF.

I think the deal is worth a fair bit to the clubs. £20M a year of which half is divided evenly and the the other half is distributed according to league position. So to Hibs it is worth about £1M a year. If that is way off then someone with the figures could correct me, but I am sure it works out around ten percent of our income.

The question has to be can we make up that ten percent through the gates if we had 3pm kick offs every sat?

[JimBHibees]

Summer football, bigger leagues, more promotions and play-offs, no OF and pishy kick off times for TV, safe standing terraces as much as possible, better surfaces, more Scots coming through into teams and hopefully an enjoyable competitive set-up.

We are scared of change though in Scotland and get all weak at the knees and nod to whatever the OF want. Fk them and let's get out and rebuild our footballing nation!!


Could live with that great post.

[TheEastTerrace]

I think there's an over-estimation on here about how much the SKY deal favours the Old Firm.

FWIW, we need a TV deal and the clubs need the income. The smaller clubs can't suddenly lose that income, it would finish them. Look at the fine margins clubs are living on - DAFC had to delay player wages on the basis of only £80,000 owed by RFC.

What needs readjustment is the distribution of funds for TV 'prize money'. The clubs share a percentage of the income from SKY equally and then put the rest into a pot for distribution based on final league standings. Where the problem lies is the significant jump in TV 'prize money' from finishing 3rd place to 2nd & 1st. This was the agreement the OF pushed through to justify their importance to the SPL in terms of income.

That is where it needs sorted out.

All that said, I think it's a big eye-opener that the TV deal is dependent on membership of the OF in the SPL. The four OF games we knew about, but effectively the SPL agreed a deal that stated the OF must stay in the league. This goes against all sporting integrity in my book

What isn't up for debate is the voting structure. Must be changed .

[Keith_M]

I think this really is the time to re-shape Scottish Football for the better. The current set up is NOT working and it's good to see the clubs (with the exception of Celtc) finally realise this.


Celtc really are throwing the toys out of the pram big time, just because of one proposal to change the numbers required for voting. If they're soooo happy with the current set-up, why have they been trying so hard to leave?

[Purple & Green]

I still think Rangers will be liquidated at some point; and they will have to be relegated - I simply don't see that UEFA would wear any lesser sanction.

As stated above though how is the TV money divvied up and is it going to change?

£80m over 5 years, equates to £16M a season.

Winners get 17% - 2.72M
Runners up get 15% - 2.25M
third get 9.5% - 1.52M
sixth get 7.5% - 1.2M
twelfth get 4.5% - 0.72M

If the above figures are accurate, and I'm sure someone must have the info then the average payout to non of teams is just over £1M? That being the case, even if we had to settle for a £12M a year deal (£60M over 5 years) and split it equally then the non of teams wouldn't lose out.

But as I said at the start when Rangers get liquidated and relegated then SKY are going to rip up the deal anyway, which only re-iterates the absolute disgrace of the complete lack of governance at RFC, SPL & the SFA.

[richard_pitts]

:agree: Football in Scotland is at a crossroads, take the wrong road and they could lose a lot of fans for ever.

Absolutely :agree: If they are allowed to get away with corrupt practice or are liquidated and remain in the SPL, it says that teams like Hibs who have cut their cloth to fit their budgets are being asked to play by different rules than the b(h)igot brothers or indeed, the Yams (goal scored against us by a player they can't afford to pay :confused:).

We have taken a kicking on the park from these teams (look at who we sold since Mowbray's years - a championship winning side) because others have lived beyond their means and we refused to. We would be being asked to accept more of the same. I will not come back and will not bring my kids - instead I'll take them to EPL games when time and money affords. The SPL will not be worth it. I suspect I will not be the only one.

Oh and the English FA can have their team GB as well because if Scotland accepts the above it is saying that Mad Vlad is right ( :grr:) and Scotland is a corrupt dung heap of a footballing nation and frankly we don't deserve a national team.

[allezsauzee]

Hibs should join the English league. Scottish League football is dying a slow painful death.

[blackpoolhibs]

Absolutely :agree: If they are allowed to get away with corrupt practice or are liquidated and remain in the SPL, it says that teams like Hibs who have cut their cloth to fit their budgets are being asked to play by different rules than the b(h)igot brothers or indeed, the Yams (goal scored against us by a player they can't afford to pay :confused:).

We have taken a kicking on the park from these teams (look at who we sold since Mowbray's years - a championship winning side) because others have lived beyond their means and we refused to. We would be being asked to accept more of the same. I will not come back and will not bring my kids - instead I'll take them to EPL games when time and money affords. The SPL will not be worth it. I suspect I will not be the only one.

Oh and the English FA can have their team GB as well because if Scotland accepts the above it is saying that Mad Vlad is right ( :grr:) and Scotland is a corrupt dung heap of a footballing nation and frankly we don't deserve a national team.


:agree:
My thoughts too, the younger fan might stay on and i dare say a few of the die hards, but get this wrong and i see fans deserting in droves. The game is broke now, and if they virtually allow cheating to go on too, it will be too much for a lot of folk.

[jgl07]

All these folk saying sky is the route of all evil i assume will be cancelling their monthly subscriptions?

Well yes if my decision was based on their Scottish coverage. But it is not.

As for ESPN, I get that one free with my cable package. I would not bother to subscribe if it was not included.

[Killiehibbie]

All these folk saying sky is the route of all evil i assume will be cancelling their monthly subscriptions?Never had one and never will.

[calmac12000]

Yet another "scsre" story put round by the media, to stop Rangers being punished for cheating. Why don't we go the whole hog and just let Sky run football completely. I'm old enough to remember the late Desmond White of Celtic, who spoke of the dangers of too much live TV and of Scottish Football going the way of the League of Ireland. Unfortunatelt, both predictions seem to be coming true,

[sadtom]

Agree with what loads of folk are saying.
I think this is the perfect time to go on the attack.
So what if Sky sports are threatening to pull the plug. If we were to sell smaller packages to espn, bbc scotland, stv we could certainly recoup a fair old chunk of it. If the money was distributed more evenly then all (but the old squirm) would see even less of an impact on the tv income.
More saturday 3pm k.o.'s against a broader range of teams in a bigger league, safe standing areas and i'm sure a number of other initiative could all help soften the blow. Yep it might mean a short term drop in quality and lower wages for players, but you have to wonder how all these teams from much poorer leagues than ours all manage to play better and more entertaining fitba than we do?
There are a number of positives to this and i'm sure a lot of other strategies that could soften the blow of reduced t.v. income.
Watching more local young laddies getting the chance to play for thier team might just be biggest boost of all.

My other point has been touched on.
I, like many i'd imagine, dont like being 'threatened'. Especialy not by a ****bag ****** like murdoch.
The supporters via the internet have so much more untapped power than we've had before and we dont realise it.
If an organised - coordinated campaign to tell sky to shove it were declared, if they followed through with their threat, then that might set the cat amongst the pigeons. SWITCH OVER (or) OFF day to let them know exactly how pleased we are at their threat.
I believe that pro rata scotland has a higher dergree of sky sports subscribers than england.
When you consider the measley amount we get from sky in comparison to england then we recieve a pittence for our subscription compared to them.
If all sky subscribers were to change to on digital, or virgin (hell than might be just the opportunity beardy branson would want, pehaps he'd look to invest in our game as a result). And all Virgin users who subscibe to sky sports (includes me) were to, en masse cancell and stop contributing to the sky coffers then they would lose millions.
Yep i know we'd lose the EPL games and la liga, but that might encourage more actual attendance.
Anyway, to hell with english/spanish fitba, our game is in crisis. We have a chance to do something about it.
They want to threaten us - in time honoured Scottish tradition - lets tell them to f***in' come ahead.
Lets go on the offensive and tell murdoch we're pulling out of the deal unless we get a bigger deal and better timeslots. Or we stop lining their pockets.
WE HAVE THE POWER HERE. NOT RANTIC OR MURDOCH/SKY. DONT BELIEVE OTHERWISE. LETS TAKE THEM ON.

[Golden Bear]

I would think that cancellation of their Sky subscription would not be a option to a lot of people, as like me, they enjoy their excellent coverage of sports other than football.

[sadtom]

I would think that cancellation of their Sky subscription would not be a option to a lot of people, as like me, they enjoy their excellent coverage of sports other than football.

If you want to stand up to these b***ards and stop being a slave to their every whim. We have a chance to save our game and set it on the road to recovery. Or are we a bunch of craven pee the beds?

If there was a broad campaign by the fans of all the other clubs then p*sh excuses like that wouldn't wash wi me. Are far as i'm concerned that would be the bleatings of a 'scab'.

[Golden Bear]

If you want to stand up to these b***ards and stop being a slave to their every whim. We have a chance to save our game and set it on the road to recovery. Or are we a bunch of craven pee the beds?

If there was a broad campaign by the fans of all the other clubs then p*sh excuses like that wouldn't wash wi me. Are far as i'm concerned that would be the bleatings of a 'scab'.

Come the revolution Brother!

:smokin

[sadtom]

Come the revolution Brother!

:smokin

Lets hope so comrade. :-)
We certainly have the chance to revolutionise Scottish fitba if nowt else.
Time for as all to show a bit of fortitude.

[Onion]

The bit Lawell said about having a league like the welsh or Iceland he could have said we get a league like Denmark or Norway or Sweden all who do better internationally than we do . Call their bluff is say.

This cannot be the same Lawell who is trying to tart Celtic to the English leagues and leave us to our own devices , anyway ? Talk about hypocrisy ? Why the hell don't the press sling that back at this clown rather than repeating his garbage in the papers ? Oh wait a minute, the OF pay their wages as well....

[Phil D. Rolls]

The bit Lawell said about having a league like the welsh or Iceland he could have said we get a league like Denmark or Norway or Sweden all who do better internationally than we do . Call their bluff is say.

It's worth pointing out that Shamrock Rovers were playing in the group stages of the UEFA cup - something Scottish clubs don't do very often. I reckon the leagues are a lot closer to parity than some people think.

[Onion]

I think there's an over-estimation on here about how much the SKY deal favours the Old Firm.

FWIW, we need a TV deal and the clubs need the income. The smaller clubs can't suddenly lose that income, it would finish them. Look at the fine margins clubs are living on - DAFC had to delay player wages on the basis of only £80,000 owed by RFC.

What needs readjustment is the distribution of funds for TV 'prize money'. The clubs share a percentage of the income from SKY equally and then put the rest into a pot for distribution based on final league standings. Where the problem lies is the significant jump in TV 'prize money' from finishing 3rd place to 2nd & 1st. This was the agreement the OF pushed through to justify their importance to the SPL in terms of income.

That is where it needs sorted out.

All that said, I think it's a big eye-opener that the TV deal is dependent on membership of the OF in the SPL. The four OF games we knew about, but effectively the SPL agreed a deal that stated the OF must stay in the league. This goes against all sporting integrity in my book

What isn't up for debate is the voting structure. Must be changed .

Then maybe the Scottish Government who were so quick to support Rangers would provide the remaining clubs with a bit of interim funding in our hour of need to save the "national game" in Scotland ?

[Lucius Apuleius]

Come the revolution Brother!

:smokin

Avanti popolo!!!!!!

[MCameron]

Some great ideas here but pulling a collaborative approach together is difficult. Perhaps what we need is a group made up of high profile champions for our cause. You know - respected sports figures and celebs with an interest in Scottish football. If they were prepared to spearhead the type of 'movement' being talked about here across the non-OF clubs that could be powerful.

So the Proclaimers and Pat Nevin from a Hibs persuasion..... (assuming of course they agree with this approach). Get some who support hearts, Dundee utd, Aberdeen etc. Then let them get some publicity and media attention for a fans group for change.

How does one make that happen though?

[TheEastTerrace]

Then maybe the Scottish Government who were so quick to support Rangers would provide the remaining clubs with a bit of interim funding in our hour of need to save the "national game" in Scotland ?

They haven't financially supported Rangers AFAIK. There was some ill-judged comments about how Rangers were an integral part of the fabric of Scottish society and couldn't collapse......until someone told them they'd been cheating the tax authorities. But that's it I think.

Don't expect the government to step in directly.

[jgl07]

They haven't financially supported Rangers AFAIK. There was some ill-judged comments about how Rangers were an integral part of the fabric of Scottish society and couldn't collapse......until someone told them they'd been cheating the tax authorities. But that's it I think.

Don't expect the government to step in directly.

Maybe they should hire some space under the stands at Ibrox to store pianos (copyright Eric Milligan circa 1994)?

[lapsedhibee]

Lets hope so comrade. :-)
We certainly have the chance to revolutionise Scottish fitba if nowt else.
Time for as all to show a bit of fortitude.
Haven't got a sub to Sky that I can cancel to show full fortitude, but I'd be up for twentitude or thirtitude - maybe walking into a newsagent once or twice a week and urinating on The Sun, that kind of thing?

[PatHead]

Urination is too good for that rag.

[alfieboi75]

Its a case of sticking to our guns and take the risk.....its time for the fans of scottish football to be put first....bring back that saturday feeling...3pm kick offs.....pink news on the way home......and sportscene on the telly!!! got the theme of sportscene going through my mind...

People Power!!!

oooohhhh...mustn't forget....

:pfgwa

[ancient hibee]

The very minimum any club gets from Sky is £800,000 per season-add to that the income from club sponsorship by companies wanting to appear on TV.I'm sure any ideas on how Dunfermline or St.Mirren or Motherwell could make up for the loss of that income on gates of around 3/4000 will be gratefully received.

[gringojoe]

Suits me, 3 o'clock kick off on a Saturday highlights on BBC/STV. If you want to watch the match get your butt along to ER and ditch the armchair.

[NAE NOOKIE]

Some great ideas here but pulling a collaborative approach together is difficult. Perhaps what we need is a group made up of high profile champions for our cause. You know - respected sports figures and celebs with an interest in Scottish football. If they were prepared to spearhead the type of 'movement' being talked about here across the non-OF clubs that could be powerful.

So the Proclaimers and Pat Nevin from a Hibs persuasion..... (assuming of course they agree with this approach). Get some who support hearts, Dundee utd, Aberdeen etc. Then let them get some publicity and media attention for a fans group for change.

How does one make that happen though?

I have a number of times advocated this sort of thing, but like you I dont have any way of making it happen. There are others out there who do, but for some reason they never seem to get around to it.

Its time that there was an umbrella organization covering the supporters clubs of the non OF SPL clubs, be that 10 or in the future 12 or 14 supporters clubs. The reason for being for this organization would be, from time to time, to put into the public domain the objections or approval of non OF fans regarding decisions taken by the SPL or SFA. Or to put forward our opinion of stuff in the media.

As far as I can see there is no voice for us out there apart from the disparate fans groups and supporters clubs who all have their own agenda depending on what is best for their clubs.

But there are a number of issues affecting Scottish football on which we all agree, no matter which club we support and that is where this new organization would come to the fore. Can somebody PLEASE do something about this. Hell, all it would take as far as I can see is an E Mail from the Hibs supporters club ( for example ) to the supporters clubs of the other teams in the SPL asking for a meeting.

There is no better time for this to happen than NOW !!!

[bingo70]

The very minimum any club gets from Sky is £800,000 per season-add to that the income from club sponsorship by companies wanting to appear on TV.I'm sure any ideas on how Dunfermline or St.Mirren or Motherwell could make up for the loss of that income on gates of around 3/4000 will be gratefully received.

A big chunk of that would come from an alternative tv deal, they would also have to reduce there costs and bring through more young players who could potentially have sell on value, they'd also be hoping a more competitive league and better kick off times would attract more fans back.

If we keep the status quo there crowds will be going that way anyway so have you any suggestions how we arrest the current slide?

[Albion Hibs]

Sounds like the best news I have heard in a long time.

On average does anyone know how much money we get off them each year?

Over how many years is that 80m paid?

I for one would like to see the back of sky, not because I dont want the league to be on tv but because they dicate far too much of what goes on, times, dates, no doubt how many teams are in the league and now apparently who has to be in the league. They go and people have to go to the games if they want to watch their team, I believe that will have a positive impact on crowds, the times will be as they should be, 3pm on a saturday, that will again bring more people to games. All that said I go back to my original questions, part of me says the off set of additonal crowds, potentially a sell out for a derby etc etc will off set the scraps to TV money the give to us.

Good bye sky..oh and I would certainly be cancelling my substription to them and I hope all Scottish football fans would do the same as a result of them trying to dicate and keep a team in this league that has been cheeting hibs and every other club, and their fans, for years.

[bingo70]

Another thing about the smaller clubs 'needing' the money, how come no club has folded after being relegated other than gretna, who were never a proper club anyway?

[Hibercelona]

Keeping Rangers in the league would cost us more quality than losing 80 million.

The bigot bros have been holding the quality of the league back with their constant shameful behaviour over the years.

Getting rid of them will more than make up for losing the sky deal.

[matty_f]

Another thing about the smaller clubs 'needing' the money, how come no club has folded after being relegated other than gretna, who were never a proper club anyway?

:agree: Rather than just folding, I'm sure what would happen is most clubs would have to do what we did last time the Sky money got pulled, we cut our cloth accordingly. Teams will just have to scale back, and if we're all doing it then it's all relative and so it shouldn't be a case of seeing clubs getting left behind.

One thing I was pondering earlier - if Rangers (or Celtc) had a freak season that led to them being in the position of being the team to be relegated, and Sky threatened to pull the money, the SPL would be in one hell of a predicament.

What price sporting integrity?

If the SPL/SFA don't deal with Rangers properly then we're all as well giving up. We've taken God only knows how many pumpings off of them over the years, and it turns out that they look like they've cheated to dish them out. If they get away with it, how are we going to feel when we rock up at Easter Road against them, and get turned over again? If the SPL don't dish out the harshest possible punishment, they will kill the game far more than a broadcaster pulling it's backing will.

[AustinHibee]

Lets hope for the integrity of Scottish football that all the clubs stick together
this time and call the old firms' bluff.
Lawell is running scared because he knows that UEFA won't let them join another
countries' league and no other country would want all the sectarian baggage that
comes with them,so therefore he knows he is stuck here.
So lets make sure they are here on the rest of the teams' terms.:flag:

[CFC]

Another thing about the smaller clubs 'needing' the money, how come no club has folded after being relegated other than gretna, who were never a proper club anyway?

Its all scaremongering pish.

[WindyMiller]

The t.v. money is shared thus; 1st 17%, 2nd 15% the rest is shared starting at 3rd with 9.5% down to 12th with 4.5%.

Hibs, with an average 6th place finish, would normally get 7%.

The new contract comes in to play from this Summer and will pay £80m over 5 seasons.

Hibs will likely continue to get 7% or £1.12m per season.

The equivalent of 56,000 £20 tickets.

More than 3000 more on the gate of each home match.

Bringing in another broadcaster with only a third of the money, would (IMO) still make it a feasible option.

[CFC]

If the tv money was gone as others have said clubs would just have to cut their cloth accordingly. Tv money or lack thereof woll not make ir break scottish football.

the status quo benefits no-one but the bigot brothers, the 10 have **** all to lose call the bigots on this bluff.

[Eyrie]

Another thing about the smaller clubs 'needing' the money, how come no club has folded after being relegated other than gretna, who were never a proper club anyway?

Beat me to it - I've been thinking that as I've read through this thread.

[BroxburnHibee]

I'm curious as to why Sky would have wanted that clause anyway - its not as if there was ever a chance of relegation.

Unless of course they were aware of what was going on.........

If we are now saying that a tv company can dictate who plays in our league then its game over for me.

[Green Cabbage 7]

maybe time to pull out using sky then! The 10 clubs could put there own tv channel, I'd be more than happy to pay to watch scottish football and ensure my money stays in scotland and with scottish football clubs.

[lucky]

Sky must have been aware that the OF want to leave the SPL so took no chance with the deal. The *******s have been trying to shaft the SPL for years so sky took signed the deal that covered their backs

[Green Cabbage 7]

maybe time to pull out using sky then! The 10 clubs could put there own tv channel, I'd be more than happy to pay to watch scottish football and ensure my money stays in scotland and with scottish football clubs.

[monktonharp]

I agree there needs to be reform but it is daft to exclude a couple of clubs. The system is skewed in favour of the OF, but it was the SPL clubs who allowed this to happen and bottled it the last time we arrived at this point. They must stand firm now and sort out the mess, but still include the OF.

I think the deal is worth a fair bit to the clubs. £20M a year of which half is divided evenly and the the other half is distributed according to league position. So to Hibs it is worth about £1M a year. If that is way off then someone with the figures could correct me, but I am sure it works out around ten percent of our income.

The question has to be can we make up that ten percent through the gates if we had 3pm kick offs every sat? I think you're missing the main point.that point being, that if everyone bends to the idea that RANGERS can do what they want,and get away with it and it wont change the whole scheme of things one little bit.however, if you look seriously at some of the previous posts on this thread, you will notice that there are some hard core Hibernian fans who will not be happy in any shape or form, if the SPL cotinues to allow the OF to rule the roost.quite the reverse, many,and I include myself(as a HFC FAN FOR 44 YEARS +) will find it almost impossible to go along with a "no change" situation. I am interupting the middle of this debate I suppose, as I have not followed it through, but feel strongly that most people on here are just not gonnae take much mair o' this pish about money being lost because Sky say this/Lawless says that and whoever Newrangers whogivesa**** says. IF the Status Quo remains, I'm out.