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down-the-slope
21-03-2012, 06:49 PM
All kicking off now...with 10 holding meeting on April 12th to try and change voting:not worth

CallumLaidlaw
21-03-2012, 06:50 PM
Great to hear but let's see if we bottle it again

stokesmessiah
21-03-2012, 06:52 PM
Great to hear but let's see if we bottle it again


I fear this may happen.

I nearly boaked at the comment that bidders for Rangers would be put off with the idea of a change to the voting system...and?

down-the-slope
21-03-2012, 06:58 PM
I fear this may happen.

I nearly boaked at the comment that bidders for Rangers would be put off with the idea of a change to the voting system...and?

All the more reason to do it then :greengrin

sh00byd00
21-03-2012, 06:59 PM
The problem with Scottish football is it's full of short sighted money grabbing losers. the Scottish game was in a better place before rangers decided to strangle any sort of competitiveness out of our game. Our current business model is heavily reliant on the OF and this needs to change. there's leagues out there that get nowhere near the amount of cash we get and they still manage to out perform us. That says more about our game than anything i can say.

Time to stand up to the OF and take a financial hit in the short term becasue it can only be good in the long term for scottish fitba'.

NAE NOOKIE
21-03-2012, 07:02 PM
The whole reason for this voting system was due to OF greed. If a new system puts off Rangers buyers frankly who cares, they didnt care about the financial health of everybody else when they were using this system to keep all the cash And Celtic can GTF too.

If it comes to the 10 resigning from the SPL they should do it.

I would like to see what the cash split percentage is in England or Spain or Italy. I would bet that the top clubs get more TV cash coz they are on more and they finish high up the leage, but I bet its not written in stone that they get a Lions share of the cash from the initial agreement before a ball is kicked and even at that I bet their percentage of the whole pot is less than the OF here.

Beefster
21-03-2012, 07:17 PM
I bet its not written in stone that they get a Lions share of the cash from the initial agreement before a ball is kicked and even at that I bet their percentage of the whole pot is less than the OF here.

There's a lot of myth about the TV money.

Around half of the money is split equally between the clubs and the other half is divvied up by league placing AFAIK. Yes, the top two places get a disproportionate percentage of the 50% (although the percentage of the total isn't that big) but there is nothing written in stone that the 'lions share' has to go to the Old Firm. If Motherwell finish 2nd, they'll get the bigger share (as Hearts did when they finished 2nd).

down-the-slope
21-03-2012, 07:20 PM
Apparently Celtic are furious about this....:cb


They wouldn't even look back if they were given any encouragement to pursue English leagues....Hell mend them

I just hope Well make a shed load out of CL next year and Celtic get pumped out at first opportunity.....

Time for change or SPL is busted

ballengeich
21-03-2012, 07:39 PM
Catch 22 is that a change to the 11-1 voting system needs an 11-1 vote if favour of the change.

greenginger
21-03-2012, 07:50 PM
At the moment the rule changes the 10 want to implement require to be passed by a " Qualified Resolution " ( 90% in favour ) of the whole of the SPL.

However the 10 do have a gun to point at the head of Rangers ( in administration ). Under clause 14 (2) of the SPL Articles of Association a member in administration can be expelled from the league by a Qualified Resolution which I would think they would not have a vote on.

Beefster
21-03-2012, 07:57 PM
At the moment the rule changes the 10 want to implement require to be passed by a " Qualified Resolution " ( 90% in favour ) of the whole of the SPL.

However the 10 do have a gun to point at the head of Rangers ( in administration ). Under clause 14 (2) of the SPL Articles of Association a member in administration can be expelled from the league by a Qualified Resolution which I would think they would not have a vote on.

Don't Rangers lose their voting rights whilst in administration? If so, they're, just, over the 90%.

PatHead
21-03-2012, 10:01 PM
Really hope the clubs can stand up to Celtic. Last time we had any competition to OF Dundee Utd got to the European Cup semi and Aberdeen won the Cup Winners Cup. About time change happened as there are more than 2 clubs in Scotland. BBC report as follows

http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/football/17467025

CallumLaidlaw
21-03-2012, 10:09 PM
There's a lot of myth about the TV money.

Around half of the money is split equally between the clubs and the other half is divvied up by league placing AFAIK. Yes, the top two places get a disproportionate percentage of the 50% (although the percentage of the total isn't that big) but there is nothing written in stone that the 'lions share' has to go to the Old Firm. If Motherwell finish 2nd, they'll get the bigger share (as Hearts did when they finished 2nd).

Out of the 2nd 50%, 1/3 goes to the top 2, with the other 2/3 getting it shared, based on league positions. An example of a share of £7.5m
1st - 1.3m
2nd - 1.2m
3rd - £760k
4th - 700k
5th - 640k
6th - 580k
7th- 520k
8th - 480k
9th - 420k
10th - 360k
11th - 300k
12th - 240k

So most league positions are a difference of £60k but there is a half a million pound difference between 2nd and 3rd

green glory
21-03-2012, 10:10 PM
The OF have spent years telling the rest of us they don't need us and they want to play in Ingerland. Celtic have been talking about it as recently as this week. They can both ***** off.

Brebners Bookie
21-03-2012, 10:11 PM
Really hope the clubs can stand up to Celtic. Last time we had any competition to OF Dundee Utd got to the European Cup semi and Aberdeen won the Cup Winners Cup. About time change happened as there are more than 2 clubs in Scotland. BBC report as follows

http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/football/17467025

Good to hear those noises coming from the chairmen. Big changes are needed.

Bishop Hibee
21-03-2012, 10:34 PM
Really hope the clubs can stand up to Celtic. Last time we had any competition to OF Dundee Utd got to the European Cup semi and Aberdeen won the Cup Winners Cup. About time change happened as there are more than 2 clubs in Scotland. BBC report as follows

http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/football/17467025

Agree 100% K. We need our Chairman to lead the way. The article is promising. I love it when the OF squeal :greengrin

Jonnyboy
21-03-2012, 10:48 PM
There's a lot of myth about the TV money.

Around half of the money is split equally between the clubs and the other half is divvied up by league placing AFAIK. Yes, the top two places get a disproportionate percentage of the 50% (although the percentage of the total isn't that big) but there is nothing written in stone that the 'lions share' has to go to the Old Firm. If Motherwell finish 2nd, they'll get the bigger share (as Hearts did when they finished 2nd).

Indeed. Makes it all the more confusing that folk opposed to the OF leaving and/or increasing the size of the SPL invariably say that such moves would threaten the TV deal. Most Chairmen, our own included, will tell you that it is season ticket money that is vital and not TV money.

Good post Beefster :aok:

Jack Schmidt
21-03-2012, 11:08 PM
The one thing we all agree on is the ugly sisters get too much cash as it is...we need the other 10 to show some bottle and get this changed...whilst one of them is in a mess this could be a once-in-a-lifetime chance to make a serious change to the established order....

Hibrandenburg
21-03-2012, 11:14 PM
The one thing we all agree on is the ugly sisters get too much cash as it is...we need the other 10 to show some bottle and get this changed...whilst one of them is in a mess this could be a once-in-a-lifetime chance to make a serious change to the established order....

Some of the 10 are also in a mess. 1 of them is fielding players it can't afford to pay and is living well beyond their means. We need to have a major clean out before we have the clear out. Agreed?

Hibs Class
22-03-2012, 08:39 AM
At the moment the rule changes the 10 want to implement require to be passed by a " Qualified Resolution " ( 90% in favour ) of the whole of the SPL.

However the 10 do have a gun to point at the head of Rangers ( in administration ). Under clause 14 (2) of the SPL Articles of Association a member in administration can be expelled from the league by a Qualified Resolution which I would think they would not have a vote on.


I like that analogy. However if I had a gun to Rangers Football Club's head I know what I'd be doing (and it wouldn't be waiting to find out which way they were going to vote) :greengrin

Onion
22-03-2012, 08:53 AM
Really hope the clubs can stand up to Celtic. Last time we had any competition to OF Dundee Utd got to the European Cup semi and Aberdeen won the Cup Winners Cup. About time change happened as there are more than 2 clubs in Scotland. BBC report as follows

http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/football/17467025

That's a great article. Glad to see the Celtic so upset about this, and the fact that they are say it all really. Some of the (unattributed) quotes from the 10 spokesmen capture the situation perfectly. Good to see they have the same concerns as the fans - for once. My two fears are 9-3 may not even be enough as wouldn't put it past the OF to bung another (smaller) club a few quid to vote with them. The other fear is that this is just posturing by the 10 and all they expect and looking for is a bit of slack from the OF - and will negotiate a half way house with watered down powers i.e. no real change.

Jim44
22-03-2012, 09:11 AM
Instead of trying to change the voting rule within the existing structure, the ten minnows should break away completely from the angry sharks and see what they do. They'll have nowhere to swim and will almost certainly ask to return, albeit to a poorer (financially) league which is not dominated by their duopoly and which has been restructured to offer opportunities for all member clubs to succeed. In the unlikely event of their deciding not to join and to go down the road of death by natural causes, hell mend them as they won't be missed. They claim that the other ten can't exist without them. Wrong! They can exist in another form but the ugly sisters can't exist without the other ten, full stop. I just wish they had the b@lls to go down this road.

Steve-O
22-03-2012, 09:15 AM
How come you don't hear the top teams in England moaning about how they bring in all the money etc etc? The Old Firm should either help contribute to Scottish Football improving as a whole, or GTF.

StevieC
22-03-2012, 09:34 AM
An example of a share of £7.5m
1st - 1.3m
2nd - 1.2m
3rd - £760k
4th - 700k
5th - 640k
6th - 580k
7th- 520k
8th - 480k
9th - 420k
10th - 360k
11th - 300k
12th - 240k

Why dont we try something radical like give every team 620k?
As a bonus for finishing first or second how about a lucrative go in the Champions league?
For 3rd and 4th how about a wee Europa Cup spot?
For 5th and 6th how about an extra couple of games against better supported teams towards the end of the season?
For 7th-12th they can try a bit better the following season, but we'll give them a wee bit more cash to help them do that?

JimBHibees
22-03-2012, 10:39 AM
Why dont we try something radical like give every team 620k?
As a bonus for finishing first or second how about a lucrative go in the Champions league?
For 3rd and 4th how about a wee Europa Cup spot?
For 5th and 6th how about an extra couple of games against better supported teams towards the end of the season?
For 7th-12th they can try a bit better the following season, but we'll give them a wee bit more cash to help them do that?

Good post, agree completely, there are already inbuilt adavantages in finishing higher up the league such as you have outlined.

GloryGlory
22-03-2012, 10:53 AM
That's a great article. Glad to see the Celtic so upset about this, and the fact that they are say it all really. Some of the (unattributed) quotes from the 10 spokesmen capture the situation perfectly. Good to see they have the same concerns as the fans - for once. My two fears are 9-3 may not even be enough as wouldn't put it past the OF to bung another (smaller) club a few quid to vote with them. The other fear is that this is just posturing by the 10 and all they expect and looking for is a bit of slack from the OF - and will negotiate a half way house with watered down powers i.e. no real change.

Celtic and Rangers have spent at least the last 10 years actively working (plotting) against the SPL and the other 10 clubs by trying to get entry to another country's league. Just last week, Celtic were reported as seeking to join League 1 in England. So the fact that they are "upset" is just tough! What goes around comes around.

It's about time the other clubs took some kind of a stand and changing the distribution of TV income to give the others a bigger share and the Gruesome Twosome less is as good a place as anywhere.

Ozyhibby
22-03-2012, 10:58 AM
I think the administrator at rangers will end up voting with the ten as they cannot afford to have the threat of them resigning from the league hanging over them while they try to sell what left of the club.

blackpoolhibs
22-03-2012, 11:21 AM
Why 9-3 and not 7-5? :confused:

Beefster
22-03-2012, 11:41 AM
Why 9-3 and not 7-5? :confused:

As a safeguard to stop change being imposed on a fair proportion of the SPL clubs, I suppose. It's used elsewhere too.

blackpoolhibs
22-03-2012, 11:56 AM
As a safeguard to stop change being imposed on a fair proportion of the SPL clubs, I suppose. It's used elsewhere too.

Thanks, i had not thought of that. Surely then it should be 8-4, that would be the fairest split?:confused:

Beefster
22-03-2012, 12:31 PM
Thanks, i had not thought of that. Surely then it should be 8-4, that would be the fairest split?:confused:

I think either 2/3 or 3/4 is generally what is used so either would be fair enough. In reality, I think that the aim is to stop the OF being able to block the will of the rest of the SPL. 9-3 will do that.

blackpoolhibs
22-03-2012, 12:47 PM
I think either 2/3 or 3/4 is generally what is used so either would be fair enough. In reality, I think that the aim is to stop the OF being able to block the will of the rest of the SPL. 9-3 will do that.

I'm not so sure the 9-3 split will be a lot better, the paranoid in me thinks the old firm just have to bribe one club, sorry talk one club round to their way of thinking?

Lix
22-03-2012, 01:00 PM
I'm not so sure the 9-3 split will be a lot better, the paranoid in me thinks the old firm just have to bribe one club, sorry talk one club round to their way of thinking?

Isn't it 2 clubs? Wouldn't they need 4 votes to veto? or am I being thick??:confused:

HibbyRod
22-03-2012, 01:04 PM
Isn't it 2 clubs? Wouldn't they need 4 votes to veto? or am I being thick??:confused:

Pretty sure you are correct Lix. they would have to 2 other clubs voting with them. :agree:

blackpoolhibs
22-03-2012, 01:09 PM
Isn't it 2 clubs? Wouldn't they need 4 votes to veto? or am I being thick??:confused:

It seems i'm the one who's being thick Lix. :greengrin

Part/Time Supporter
22-03-2012, 01:11 PM
The hypocrisy of Celtc is outstanding.

If 75% of Celtic plc shareholders voted for any motion (including dissolving the company!) at a general meeting, the motion would pass. If their wet dream was ever realised and they joined the (English) Premier League, they would have to put up with a voting system where only 2/3 approval is needed for any resolution. Why is 75% approval good enough for them, more than good enough for the EPL, but not for the SPL?

Tha Cabbage Kid
22-03-2012, 02:06 PM
Apparently Celtic are furious about this....:cb


They wouldn't even look back if they were given any encouragement to pursue English leagues....Hell mend them

I just hope Well make a shed load out of CL next year and Celtic get pumped out at first opportunity.....

Time for change or SPL is busted

THIS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

they would sooner sh*t on us than look to help us! they wont united with us to help the game so ***** them. im in favour of scottish football and i want it to be as competitive as possible. without the the domination of the glasgow two i would be happy. fairness is what its all about!!!!!

i hope rangers invite them to their doom party!

CallumLaidlaw
22-03-2012, 05:16 PM
Look at this -
#Celtic chief exec Peter Lawwell says the current SPL voting structure will stay as they, #Rangers and SKY will stand shoulder to shoulder

That is UNBELEIVABLE. Just goes to show their arrogance. Talk about self preservation!

Ozyhibby
22-03-2012, 05:21 PM
If the ten threaten to resign from the SPL the the administrator at the Huns will be in a very tricky situation.
How do you try to negotiate a CVA or try to sell the club which is losing £1m a month and has no league to play in?
I think they will reluctantly vote with the 10 as their job is to get them out of admin as soon as possible. They can't afford a long battle.

Beefster
22-03-2012, 05:24 PM
Look at this -
#Celtic chief exec Peter Lawwell says the current SPL voting structure will stay as they, #Rangers and SKY will stand shoulder to shoulder

That is UNBELEIVABLE. Just goes to show their arrogance. Talk about self preservation!

If the 'Ten' don't ram this down Lawwell's throat and take this opportunity to radically change things then they deserve all the shaftings that they get from the OF.

blackpoolhibs
22-03-2012, 05:42 PM
Look at this -
#Celtic chief exec Peter Lawwell says the current SPL voting structure will stay as they, #Rangers and SKY will stand shoulder to shoulder

That is UNBELEIVABLE. Just goes to show their arrogance. Talk about self preservation!

I cant see why Sky are involved in this, i'd imagine they dont give a toss how the moneys divided up, as long as they get the product shown at their ridiculous days and times?

NAE NOOKIE
22-03-2012, 06:17 PM
Look at this -
#Celtic chief exec Peter Lawwell says the current SPL voting structure will stay as they, #Rangers and SKY will stand shoulder to shoulder

That is UNBELEIVABLE. Just goes to show their arrogance. Talk about self preservation!


WOW !!!

I dont know if I'm being over dramatic, but to me that one statement is probably one of the most seismic events in Scottish football since I became aware there was such a thing as Scottish football.

This more or less says to every other club in Scotland ( not just the SPL ) WHO CARES ABOUT YOU !!!

Celtic football club and Rangers football club have by their actions in the past shown that as far as they are concerned they are Scottish football and the rest only exsist as a necessary evil so that they have a league to play in until the EPL notice their faces pressed to the window and let them in.

These two clubs have been at pains to say that the do care about the game here, though this only extends as far as encouraging the myth that what is good for them is good for the game.

If the actions by the 10 have done anything it has enabled everybody to finally see the OF and especially Celtic in their true colours.

The colours of self serving greed and selfishness.

C'MON YOU 10 .... DONT GIVE AN INCH ..... If the OF make any kind of threat then call their bluff. Resign from the SPL, bin the current SKY deal and tell the OF to either sign up to any new league and abide by that leagues rules or go cap in hand to the English leagues and see if they will be let in.

Tha Cabbage Kid
22-03-2012, 06:31 PM
Catch 22 is that a change to the 11-1 voting system needs an 11-1 vote if favour of the change.

i dont know if this has been though about or if even possible. but...................

if this 11-1 vote has to be made for the system to be changed. (so obviously not turning out like we want) Can we not then go with changing the league to a 14 team or 16 team league therfore changing the ratio for 11-1 to something like 13-3 or 12-2??????

because lets face it any other teams who will be invited into the new league system will no doubt vote in favour of magority no?

offshorehibby
22-03-2012, 06:51 PM
Strangely just heard Lawwell on the tea time news saying he would be interested in a 14 team league. Not sure if this has any significance with the 10 meeting.

NAE NOOKIE
22-03-2012, 07:42 PM
Strangely just heard Lawwell on the tea time news saying he would be interested in a 14 team league. Not sure if this has any significance with the 10 meeting.

Yeh ...... I heard that too on Reporting Scotland, the tears of gratitude are still running down my face. It was just after he had been quoted as saying that the 10 clubs were " being disrespectful " like some Mafia godfather chiding an underling !!!

When you have a situation where 80% of the whole want change and as a result are described as " rebels " then that whole must be run as a dictatorship. Coz it sure as hell aint democracy !!!

Seems to me like Celtic are beginning to sweat a bit and the 14 team thing is a sop to try and deflect us from the real issue here. Still how nice of them to say they are prepared to allow a change to the size of the SPL.

What they seem to have missed here ( and Rangers too ) is that to a large degree the actions of the 10 are driven by growing discontent from their supporters with the status quo and that what the 10 are doing has the backing of every supporter in Scotland outside of the OF.

We are simply fed up to the back teeth of a system which is so loaded in favour of two clubs that nobody else can even come close to getting a look in.

The_Todd
22-03-2012, 08:03 PM
So Celtic, Rangers and Sky pull the plug. Let them do it, quite frankly. You think Celtic and Rangers (especially Rangers) would turn off such an important revenue stream to them? Rubbish bluff, call them.

Even if they do go suicidal and pull the Sky deal I don't care. The Sky TV money hasn't got us any quality players, it hasn't helped foster a competitive league so screw it, let the Sky deal die. And while we're at it, ESPN being owned by Disney could easily afford to offer a deal in Sky's absence. I don't buy this as a serious threat.

Moulin Yarns
22-03-2012, 08:05 PM
Strangely just heard Lawwell on the tea time news saying he would be interested in a 14 team league. Not sure if this has any significance with the 10 meeting.

Hang on a wee minute. If the league increases the SPL will lose £20 million.


Sky will do one, the same Sky that love the OF so much.

offshorehibby
23-03-2012, 12:41 AM
Think this is celtic running scared already offering us a few scraps.

Had to laugh at Lawwel with the '10 clubs being disrespectful' quote. Is this the same cltic/lawwel that were touting thier can we join you in englandshire article in the paper last week.

The Green Goblin
23-03-2012, 12:46 AM
Think this is celtic running scared already offering us a few scraps.

Had to laugh at Lawwel with the '10 clubs being disrespectful' quote. Is this the same cltic/lawwel that were touting thier can we join you in englandshire article in the paper last week.

It beggars belief. Talk about wanting to have your cake and eat it...

Time for the others to man up and band together. Celtic are feeling exposed and a bit powerless without their hun pals to divvy up the spoils and dictate terms. The 10 may never get a better opportunity with one of the ugly sisters in such bad shape. I'm getting the delicious feeling that they all realise this too....

offshorehibby
23-03-2012, 12:55 AM
It beggars belief. Talk about wanting to have your cake and eat it...

Time for the others to man up and band together. Celtic are feeling exposed and a bit powerless without their hun pals to divvy up the spoils and dictate terms. The 10 may never get a better opportunity with one of the ugly sisters in such bad shape. I'm getting the delicious feeling that they all realise this too....

Hopefully the 10 hold their nerve and go for the OF jugular.

greenginger
23-03-2012, 08:35 AM
The Rangers admins think they would be working for the good of the Club if they vote against the 10 clubs move for a fairer league.

Duff and Duffer should have it explained to them their will be no New - Co Huns in the SPL if they vote against these changes and see what that does for potential bidders for the Rangers 1873 in Admin.

The Huns should be told they must vote with the 10 if they want to be considered as candidates for the SPL.

Then vote the ********s out anyway ! :greengrin