Our Scouting System????

[edinburghhibee]

I've been thinking about this a fair bit over the last few weeks and I am begining to wonder if its not so much the coaching staff that need replaced but the guys trawling the country telling the past and present managers about players. I'm sure we do have a scouting system in operation somewhere, but what are they doing? who have they picked up over the past few years that have been any good (I mean since the Thommo's, Browns and Murphy).

Do we scout abroad? The Scandanavian league is constantly getting players taken from it without very many games under the young players belt in the first team e.g. Ibrahimovic, Marcus Berg, Kalstrom. Now I fully realise that hibs cannot compete with Ajax, Lyon PSV and these fairly big European clubs when it comes to offering these players or there clubs the money, but surely we can get them at a young age before they break through. Gothia Cup for instance clubs from all over the world attend this tournament and do we send a scout to it? I don't know.

Can we set up our own tournament like this were we get in touch with African, South American, Asian clubs invite them over play the games at EM with the final being held in ER... the benefits of this would be creating bonds with other international clubs, kids who come over here to play see the club and what its about, may even start dreaming about coming and joining the mighty hibees, and most importantly we get to see who the stars of the future are before anyone else.

What do you guys think or know about our scouting? because I don't have a clue I'm just putting this out there?

[Mikey]

There were questions asked about the scouting system in the Q&A we put together. Unfortunately we haven't had any answers back yet!

[PaulSmith]

Mikey, do we know when any questions will be answered?

[Mikey]

Nope!

[PaulSmith]

To answer the OP I believe we're now behind Hearts, Celtic, Dundee Utd, Rangers and perhaps even Falkirk/Livi in terms of being at attractive proposition for 12 or 13 yo's.
Another issue locally is Ipswich's tie up with Hutchie Vale, the calibre of player at HV 14's has scouts from the very top of the UK there, two players in particular are simply outstanding.
Hard to take when they are on our door step but perhaps this is now the reality or do we need an overhaul to make a concentrated effort to get every top player into ER within 50 miles of east mains.
Just up for debate this and I'm sure there will be different opinions

[mca]

Do we scout abroad? - surely we can get them at a young age before they break through.



Did we not have a problem with the Claros signing - due to him not playing enough senior/country football to get a work permit !!


Thinks there is also another goverment rule that stops us shipping in loads of foreign youngsters :greengrin


sounds a good idea all the same - some kind of normal work permit would only last a year or so anyway - so there would probably be no resale value on the kids that might have done really well..

just an opinion btw :wink:

[PaulSmith]

Nope!

Lol, "we're accessible, want to listen to the fans and regardless of popular opinion don't live in an ivory tower"

Or something like that from the AGM and listening groups :)

[cabbageandribs1875]

WHAT scouting system :( and when was the last time we brought through a big solid centre half from youth to first team(answers in decades), or even a good solid GK :rolleyes:

[edinburghhibee]

Did we not have a problem with the Claros signing - due to him not playing enough senior/country football to get a work permit !!


Thinks there is also another goverment rule that stops us shipping in loads of foreign youngsters :greengrin


sounds a good idea all the same - some kind of normal work permit would only last a year or so anyway - so there would probably be no resale value on the kids that might have done really well..

just an opinion btw :wink:

Is that just our gov that apply these rules of is it an EU thing? Just asking because France seems to be fill with cracking young african players, and Messi has been at Barca since the age of 12 or something I've heard, so why can't we?

[Pretty Boy]

Lol, "we're accessible, want to listen to the fans and regardless of popular opinion don't live in an ivory tower"

Or something like that from the AGM and listening groups :)

To be fair they are probably having to think quite hard about the answers.

Even they must know 25 answers of 'together we are stronger' might not cut it.

[PaulSmith]

Is that just our gov that apply these rules of is it an EU thing? Just asking because France seems to be fill with cracking young african players, and Messi has been at Barca since the age of 12 or something I've heard, so why can't we?

Dual nationality in plenty of ex French colonies in Africa.

[Part/Time Supporter]

Park going to Celtic was the start of the slippery slope. The likelihood is we would have got first look at James Forrest, to name but one, if Park was still here.

Him specifically, not likely, because he was associated with Celtic long before Park moved there. I agree with your general point the drop in quality of Hibs' recruitment since Park left is stark. In the 3-4 years before he left, Hibs signed a high number of real bargains (eg signing Murphy for free and selling him for best part of £2M). In the years since Park left, Hibs have actually been spending more money, but getting less quality.

[mca]

Park going to Celtic was the start of the slippery slope. The likelihood is we would have got first look at James Forrest, to name but one, if Park was still here.



Hit the nail on the head - kinda springs to mind :aok:

[edinburghhibee]

Park going to Celtic was the start of the slippery slope. The likelihood is we would have got first look at James Forrest, to name but one, if Park was still here.

Yeah he was here with us during the "Golden Generation" but when he left did the scouting just stop dead.

I agree with the goalkeeper and the decent CB post though, I can't think of any decent CB or keepers if pushed for an average player in these positions Reid and Dodds but I was very young when they were around so memory of them playing are poor.

[hibsbollah]

Him specifically, not likely, because he was associated with Celtic long before Park moved there. I agree with your general point the drop in quality of Hibs' recruitment since Park left is stark. In the 3-4 years before he left, Hibs signed a high number of real bargains (eg signing Murphy for free and selling him for best part of £2M). In the years since Park left, Hibs have actually been spending more money, but getting less quality.


Aye youre right Forrest was pre-Park, my mistake.

[PaulSmith]

Yeah he was here with us during the "Golden Generation" but when he left did the scouting just stop dead.

I agree with the goalkeeper and the decent CB post though, I can't think of any decent CB or keepers if pushed for an average player in these positions Reid and Dodds but I was very young when they were around so memory of them playing are poor.

My memory of those two is good and they were poor

[edinburghhibee]

Him specifically, not likely, because he was associated with Celtic long before Park moved there. I agree with your general point the drop in quality of Hibs' recruitment since Park left is stark. In the 3-4 years before he left, Hibs signed a high number of real bargains (eg signing Murphy for free and selling him for best part of £2M). In the years since Park left, Hibs have actually been spending more money, but getting less quality.

Was hibs signing Murphy anything to do with Park though? I would have thought that the scouting system down south would have picked him, Antonio Murray and Sam Morrow up?

[edinburghhibee]

My memory of those two is good and they were poor

Agh well the point still stands our scouts have turned ***** get it sorted Petrie:grr:

[AlbertK86]

Is the chief scout not a relation of one of the board who has no football background. Sure that was quoted on here before.

IF true then a disgrace and neither wonder we are not getting the right players in

[Stevo1875]

wrt youth, we had a successful group with wotherspoon, byrne etc. too many managers through the doors with different expectations, styles of play and requirements means that if a youngster has had a shot e.g. wotherspoon, they have had to play half a dozen different positions and have therefore mastered none. the rest released because their careers had stalled. maybe this group played quite differently to the first team and were not the right type of player. maybe or lack of players with experienced and leadership qualities has resulted in them not developing. the problem seems to be that they are not making the transition into the first team. i think a settled manager would have benefited some.

[hibsbollah]

I suppose the Park story just shows what a skill a professional scout is. You'd think it was easy watching a game of footie and assessing who the best players on the pitch are and who could make it to a higher level. (lets face it, most of hibs.net think they know it all in this respect :greengrin

My ex-girlfriends dad was a scout for Glenn Roeder at Watford. No idea if he was any good or not but i know he got the job purely on the basis that they both played in a charity game for Blyth Spartans and were mates. Roeder is now chief scout at Aston Villa, also on the basis of
being mates with someone.

Maybe theres two kinds of scouts, ones like Park who can spot a player a mile off by some alchemy...and the other ones who get in on the basis of an auld boys network.

[jgl07]

Was hibs signing Murphy anything to do with Park though? I would have thought that the scouting system down south would have picked him, Antonio Murray and Sam Morrow up?

Tony Mowbray brought them in.

[GreenCastle]

To answer the OP I believe we're now behind Hearts, Celtic, Dundee Utd, Rangers and perhaps even Falkirk/Livi in terms of being at attractive proposition for 12 or 13 yo's.
Another issue locally is Ipswich's tie up with Hutchie Vale, the calibre of player at HV 14's has scouts from the very top of the UK there, two players in particular are simply outstanding.
Hard to take when they are on our door step but perhaps this is now the reality or do we need an overhaul to make a concentrated effort to get every top player into ER within 50 miles of east mains.
Just up for debate this and I'm sure there will be different opinions

Watched some of these players recently and if Hibs had any sense they would be getting them in and working with them. Yes they are young and many things can happen but was VERY impressed with the quality of these players - all very comfortable on the ball and played football the right way on the ground and passing and moving.

[BEEJ]

There were questions asked about the scouting system in the Q&A we put together. Unfortunately we haven't had any answers back yet!


Mikey, do we know when any questions will be answered?


Nope!
I can only imagine that they're waiting for the right time to go public on their responses - with results on the park a key factor in that decision.

Get the timing wrong and their answers will be viewed with even greater cynism than usual, in the light of recent events.

I would suggest that this week would not be a good time for them to 'go to print'. :rolleyes: