More Republican Lies - Compulsory Euthanasia in Holland

[Phil D. Rolls]

Seems that the Dutch kill their old people rather than provide them with health care.

http://www.theatlantic.com/international/archive/2012/03/the-dutch-euthanize-their-elderly-and-other-scary-gop-lies-about-europe/254462/

Why are the Americans so scared of looking after their own people?

[Jack]

40% of Americans don't have health cover; most of the rest don't have cover that matches the NHS.

Yet the Americans spend most per head of population than almost any other country on the planet.

It seems to me a lot of that money is not actually being spent on healthcare but on the insurance companies that run the current set up.

A lot of very wealthy people look set to lose their ill gotten incomes.

A close examination of the American Health Scam also shows close links between those mentioned above and those who pedal ill health, like the fast food industry among others.

Hope this clears things up for you ;-)

[Eyrie]

Usual Republican bullbleep.

They're hypocrites of the highest order who gleefully support the death penalty, yet refuse people the right to make an informed decision about their own health.

[Twa Cairpets]

I despise Rick Santorum. I loathe almost everything he represents.

If you want a bit of jaw dropping "is this really what he believes", then take a swatch at this...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=B2emBxDOY7g

[heretoday]

I listen to NPR radio from the States a lot. It's the nearest thing they have to serious news/current affairs stuff and is publicly funded. Commentators are always looking across to us and admiring our NHS.

I've been emailing them to say:"Come back in 5 years, mate, and see what's left of it!"

[Jack]

I listen to NPR radio from the States a lot. It's the nearest thing they have to serious news/current affairs stuff and is publicly funded. Commentators are always looking across to us and admiring our NHS.

I've been emailing them to say:"Come back in 5 years, mate, and see what's left of it!"

In Scotland the NHS will still be a shining jewel and an example of how the State should provide healthcare for its population.

It might not look exactly the same but with the current move to align health and social care (NHS and local authority type stuff) it will be even better than we have now. The increased use AND smart use of telehealth in all its forms (this isn't unique to Scotland) we have some fantastic stuff going on.

Most healthcare experts in the UK agree Scotland is the place to be.

As for England the reforms coming in will muck up the whole thing, unless you agree with the rest of the UK healthcare experts. The only ones I've heard being positive about it are in the direct pay of the UK Government.

It will become more important heretoday to point the difference out to your American audience :-)

[HKhibby]

In Scotland the NHS will still be a shining jewel and an example of how the State should provide healthcare for its population.

It might not look exactly the same but with the current move to align health and social care (NHS and local authority type stuff) it will be even better than we have now. The increased use AND smart use of telehealth in all its forms (this isn't unique to Scotland) we have some fantastic stuff going on.

Most healthcare experts in the UK agree Scotland is the place to be.

As for England the reforms coming in will muck up the whole thing, unless you agree with the rest of the UK healthcare experts. The only ones I've heard being positive about it are in the direct pay of the UK Government.

It will become more important heretoday to point the difference out to your American audience :-)

if you needed a life saving operation at 3am could you get it on the NHS? probably not as thats withouth the E.U. working time directive or someting! and you would wait intil the next day, good old NHS! outdated and always will be, where i live i could have an op in 60 minutes! and a quarter of the price of your beloved NHS! oh i forgot the private sytem is evil! even if it makes you better!!, when are people there going to come out of their little bubble and everything in Scotland or the UK is the best?with unions running things!!, i live in Asia and it leaves North America , Europe, and Especially the UK standing!!
we do things here without any issue and get on with life with what needs done etc.., and have little or no time for pampered little nobodys with i want and i deserve attitude!!!

[CropleyWasGod]

if you needed a life saving operation at 3am could you get it on the NHS?

Yes.

[da-robster]

Is anyone really surprised anymore when a republican says something jaw droppingly stupid?

It's not really worth worrying about though, as Santorum has zero chance of becoming president.

[Jack]

if you needed a life saving operation at 3am could you get it on the NHS? probably not as thats withouth the E.U. working time directive or someting! and you would wait intil the next day, good old NHS! outdated and always will be, where i live i could have an op in 60 minutes! and a quarter of the price of your beloved NHS! oh i forgot the private sytem is evil! even if it makes you better!!, when are people there going to come out of their little bubble and everything in Scotland or the UK is the best?with unions running things!!, i live in Asia and it leaves North America , Europe, and Especially the UK standing!!
we do things here without any issue and get on with life with what needs done etc.., and have little or no time for pampered little nobodys with i want and i deserve attitude!!!

Yes of course you can, you can also still get home visits when its serious but not as deadly as life saving.

The Hong Kong system, like the NHS, is a mixed economy of both private a state provision. We have a choice here too.

But its not just the health system in Hong Kong that makes it one on the healthiest 'nations' in the world. The education system and the lifestyle, which tend towards prevention rather than cure, will contribute to that more. IMO.

[Twa Cairpets]

Is anyone really surprised anymore when a republican says something jaw droppingly stupid?

It's not really worth worrying about though, as Santorum has zero chance of becoming president.

It is massively worth worrying about. Although you're right, Santorum wont be the next President, the platform he has for ideas and the support he has had will mean at grassroot activist level in the US - from town mayors to county level office-bearers to state legislature - his views will have been given legitimacy. Local power and authority will be bolstered by his evangelical zeal, and people will suffer.

[Phil D. Rolls]

if you needed a life saving operation at 3am could you get it on the NHS? probably not as thats withouth the E.U. working time directive or someting! and you would wait intil the next day, good old NHS! outdated and always will be, where i live i could have an op in 60 minutes! and a quarter of the price of your beloved NHS! oh i forgot the private sytem is evil! even if it makes you better!!, when are people there going to come out of their little bubble and everything in Scotland or the UK is the best?with unions running things!!, i live in Asia and it leaves North America , Europe, and Especially the UK standing!!
we do things here without any issue and get on with life with what needs done etc.., and have little or no time for pampered little nobodys with i want and i deserve attitude!!!

Ironically, many parts of the NHS are outside the European Working Time Directive. Particularly nurses - seen as an exemption in the UK.

So you get an op for 25% of zero? Not a bad deal.

As for the unions running things, I think you need to stop watching those repeats of 70s sitcoms.

The NHS gets saddled with all sorts of problems that should not be in its remit - homelessness for example. Against that, it does a not bad job at patching up the population. In fact, probably too good a job, as there seems to be a lack of incentive for people to look after themselves.

From where I am sitting, Asia seems to do very well in parts - but social care does not seem to be one of them. Just look at the number of Indians still living in abject poverty. Economic growth is not the sole indicator of a country's prosperity.

[Eyrie]

From where I am sitting, Asia seems to do very well in parts - but social care does not seem to be one of them. Just look at the number of Indians still living in abject poverty. Economic growth is not the sole indicator of a country's prosperity.
But without economic growth it is impossible to improve people's lives as the jobs aren't there and the education can't be afforded.

[da-robster]

It is massively worth worrying about. Although you're right, Santorum wont be the next President, the platform he has for ideas and the support he has had will mean at grassroot activist level in the US - from town mayors to county level office-bearers to state legislature - his views will have been given legitimacy. Local power and authority will be bolstered by his evangelical zeal, and people will suffer.

It really isn't, the Rick Santorum view of the world is dying right in front of our eyes, already more americans support gay marriage then don't.
His views have always been legitimate in the US (sad as that is) and there have always been "tea party" conservatives, but they are getting less not more acceptable, one rubbish candidate will not change anything. I understand why you're worried but Santorum and his ilk can do nothing about that, it's all just hot air, they have no power to change anything.

[Twa Cairpets]

It really isn't, the Rick Santorum view of the world is dying right in front of our eyes, already more americans support gay marriage then don't.
His views have always been legitimate in the US (sad as that is) and there have always been "tea party" conservatives, but they are getting less not more acceptable, one rubbish candidate will not change anything. I understand why you're worried but Santorum and his ilk can do nothing about that, it's all just hot air, they have no power to change anything.

I truly wish I could agree, but the impact of people on Santorums side of the GOP in power are already making life difficult for people. Have a look at what Texas requires women wanting abortions to do, or what Tennessee thinks of gay partnership. The continuing efforts to force ID into schools goes on (with some limited success) despite Dover v Kitzmuller.

Dangerous man, with dangerous ideas given a platform.

I hope you're right. I'd love to be monumentally wrong on this one!

[RyeSloan]

I truly wish I could agree, but the impact of people on Santorums side of the GOP in power are already making life difficult for people. Have a look at what Texas requires women wanting abortions to do, or what Tennessee thinks of gay partnership. The continuing efforts to force ID into schools goes on (with some limited success) despite Dover v Kitzmuller.

Dangerous man, with dangerous ideas given a platform.

I hope you're right. I'd love to be monumentally wrong on this one!

Or the simple fact that they pull any 'moderates' further into their territory..I think you can clearly see the effect of Santorum and co's attacks on Romney's positions.

I know Santorum will not win but he is reflective of a signficant porportion of the electorate, his wins in the south show that clearly enough....not something to be dismissed as 'dying on front of our eyes', actually the opposite; I would suggest it should make people sit up and realise just how much these people are causing polarisation in American politics.

[HKhibby]

But without economic growth it is impossible to improve people's lives as the jobs aren't there and the education can't be afforded.

Exactly! how true! and it should be down to the individual to look after themselves not the state and take responsibility for yourself!

[Pretty Boy]

Exactly! how true! and it should be down to the individual to look after themselves not the state and take responsibility for yourself!

And how should people do that given the wages paid by both the private and public sector make private healthcare, amongst other things, unaffordable for large sections of the population?

[da-robster]

I truly wish I could agree, but the impact of people on Santorums side of the GOP in power are already making life difficult for people. Have a look at what Texas requires women wanting abortions to do, or what Tennessee thinks of gay partnership. The continuing efforts to force ID into schools goes on (with some limited success) despite Dover v Kitzmuller.

Dangerous man, with dangerous ideas given a platform.

I hope you're right. I'd love to be monumentally wrong on this one!

In the short term you are probably (unfortunately) right because a lot of nutcases were elected in 2010, and I would agree that it is a worry, but the GOP or Democrats (depending on the part of the country) have been pushing these socially conservative issues for years long before Santorum came about. But in the long term they will have to moderate or lose, in forty years it will seem as strange that someone like Santorum came close to winning (relatively speaking) as it does that Wallace and Thurmond got so many votes.



Or the simple fact that they pull any 'moderates' further into their territory..I think you can clearly see the effect of Santorum and co's attacks on Romney's positions.

I know Santorum will not win but he is reflective of a signficant porportion of the electorate, his wins in the south show that clearly enough....not something to be dismissed as 'dying on front of our eyes', actually the opposite; I would suggest it should make people sit up and realise just how much these people are causing polarisation in American politics.

I agree entirely that Santorum represents a lot of american people, but that percentage is dropping rapidly, anyone similar to him can not win now and is even less likely to win in the future, although they may be causing polarisation in America they are on the losing side, and will moderate in the future just to stay electable. I can understand why you'd be worried by people like Santorum now but in the long term they will fail.

[Twa Cairpets]

In the short term you are probably (unfortunately) right because a lot of nutcases were elected in 2010, and I would agree that it is a worry, but the GOP or Democrats (depending on the part of the country) have been pushing these socially conservative issues for years long before Santorum came about. But in the long term they will have to moderate or lose, in forty years it will seem as strange that someone like Santorum came close to winning (relatively speaking) as it does that Wallace and Thurmond got so many votes.

I agree entirely that Santorum represents a lot of american people, but that percentage is dropping rapidly, anyone similar to him can not win now and is even less likely to win in the future, although they may be causing polarisation in America they are on the losing side, and will moderate in the future just to stay electable. I can understand why you'd be worried by people like Santorum now but in the long term they will fail.

What is the evidence that this is the case? (not confrontational, just curious:wink:)

[Eyrie]

Exactly! how true! and it should be down to the individual to look after themselves not the state and take responsibility for yourself!

And how should people do that given the wages paid by both the private and public sector make private healthcare, amongst other things, unaffordable for large sections of the population?

Healthcare and school-age education are two key areas which should be paid for by the state and be free at the point of use to the citizen. I have no particular concern over whether they are provided by public bodies or private companies providing that standards are maintained.

[da-robster]

What is the evidence that this is the case? (not confrontational, just curious:wink:)

This is quite a nice example here:

http://fivethirtyeight.blogs.nytimes.com/2011/04/20/gay-marriage-opponents-now-in-minority/

[Phil D. Rolls]

Exactly! how true! and it should be down to the individual to look after themselves not the state and take responsibility for yourself!

Are you saying it is wrong to look after the weak and vulnerable?