If we all agree Pat Fenlon fully deserves a bit of time ......

[Stanton]

then we have to give it to him ....he is relatively speaking just in the door .....if you have confidence that he will wheel & deal to make us a much improved team once he has had the opportunity to do his stuff by getting rid of the deadwood and bringing in his own guys ....we need to avoid relegation and give him the remainder of this season and the close season to see where we are going.

Do people have confidence or can you see it being midway through next season with things looking bad again .....and needing to change it again ....???

We have to get it right soon ...coz one thing is guaranteed ...continual short term appointments will result in continual upheavel ........I REALLY HOPE Pat's got it ...if he does not ....the next appointment will be crucial.

[Baldy Foghorn]

then we have to give it to him ....he is relatively speaking just in the door .....if you have confidence that he will wheel & deal to make us a much improved team once he has had the opportunity to do his stuff by getting rid of the deadwood and bringing in his own guys ....we need to avoid relegation and give him the remainder of this season and the close season to see where we are going.

Do people have confidence or can you see it being midway through next season with things looking bad again .....and needing to change it again ....???

We have to get it right soon ...coz one thing is guaranteed ...continual short term appointments will result in continual upheavel ........I REALLY HOPE Pat's got it ...if he does not ....the next appointment will be crucial.

Yip agree PF needs time. The sacking of two manager's on the eve of the last two AGM's smacked of the Board trying to deflect flak from themselves......They surely wouldnt do it a third time:rolleyes:

[truehibernian]

Very confident he will. Would also like to see a real change at the top pre-season too, with Rod stepping aside and getting someone with the same Fenlon passion at the helm.

Player wise - letting go Galbraith, Stephens, Welsh (sadly), Stack, O'Connor and Wotherspoon for me

Securing McPake, Griffiths and Francomb key for me from the loanees.

Bids for Hayes, Lee Croft and Deano would be ideal.

Then smart scouting in the Scottish lower leagues and easing in Caldwell, Handling, Forster and Stanton.

[sesoim]

Although I can't understand one or two of Fenlon's decisions and selections (eg his aversion to playing Booth on the left wing), I think Fenlon has something about him - he seems the "busy" type, that is always looking for ways to get better.

The Hibs job shouldn't need a rocket scientist, anyway. We'll have at least the 4th biggest budget next season, a blank canvas considering all the players who's contracts are ending. And the SPL is very poor. I honestly think there's a great opportunity waiting there for a manager to make himself look good.

If Fenlon gets it right it should be easy to climb the table next season. Obviously we still need still need to stay up first....

[Onion]

then we have to give it to him ....he is relatively speaking just in the door .....if you have confidence that he will wheel & deal to make us a much improved team once he has had the opportunity to do his stuff by getting rid of the deadwood and bringing in his own guys ....we need to avoid relegation and give him the remainder of this season and the close season to see where we are going.

Do people have confidence or can you see it being midway through next season with things looking bad again .....and needing to change it again ....???

We have to get it right soon ...coz one thing is guaranteed ...continual short term appointments will result in continual upheavel ........I REALLY HOPE Pat's got it ...if he does not ....the next appointment will be crucial.

Fenlon's biggest challenge now is that so many Hibs fans who have loyally stuck with the club over the last 5 years have had enough and will not renew their STs. With much less money from Penny Pinching Petrie there's no guarantee that Fenlon can improve on what we have at present. Lean times ahead, me thinks.

To put Hibs record into perspective Killie (who are a very average club in Scotland) has won both the Scottish Cup and League cup within the last 15 years and reached 2 finals in the last 5 years.

[Baldy Foghorn]

Fenlon's biggest challenge now is that so many Hibs fans who have loyally stuck with the club over the last 5 years have had enough and will not renew their STs. With much less money from Penny Pinching Petrie there's no guarantee that Fenlon can improve on what we have at present. Lean times ahead, me thinks.

To put Hibs record into perspective Killie (who are a very average club in Scotland) has won both the Scottish Cup and League cup within the last 15 years and reached 2 finals in the last 5 years.

:agree::agree:

[Alfred E Newman]

I don`t like Fenlons long ball game but I am prepared to put up with it in the short term if it keeps us up. What I don`t understand is playing a long ball game with no big front man like Beattie or Higdon who can hold the ball up and spread the play. Thumping the ball back to front to the likes of Griffiths, O`Donovan or Doyle is a waste of time.

[bingo70]

I like fenlon and think he'll be a good manager for us, however that doesn't make him immune from criticism.

I've not been impressed by some of his chat before the derbies, considering our record I don't want to hear its just another game worth 3 points coming from the manager, I want him bigging the game up saying its worth more than the three points, downplaying the importance of derbies when we've not won one in 9 was the last thing I wanted to hear.

[Jonnyboy]

I don`t like Fenlons long ball game but I am prepared to put up with it in the short term if it keeps us up. What I don`t understand is playing a long ball game with no big front man like Beattie or Higdon who can hold the ball up and spread the play. Thumping the ball back to front to the likes of Griffiths, O`Donovan or Doyle is a waste of time.

:agree: and you could add O'Connor to that list

[silverhibee]

His record so far. Played 15. Won 2 Drawn 3. Lost 10.

Needs to start getting the team to win more game's at ER. :agree:

[woodythehibee]

I firmly believe that Pat Fenlon is the man to bring good times back to Hibernian.

His signings already show that he has an eye for a player and similarly to Mowbray, he can talk a very good game. Next season we will see this put into practice after he has his first full pre season with his own players.

I'm very much looking forward to next season with Pat at the helm (providing we are in the SPL which I am also confident of)

[truehibernian]

:agree: and you could add O'Connor to that list

JB, you could lump a beachball in the direction of Garry and he'd still struggle to bring it under control to be honest.

[PISTOL1875]

Pat Fenlon I feel is the man for the job. I have the utmost confidence in him to get it right.. I also think that he like CC underestimated the job he has on his hands.. Both CC and PF have came in and straight away had to change the personnel that is the playing squad which tells its own story..

WE must give him time to get his own players in and stamp his authority and his own mark on the squad..

The most important thing he has to change is the mentality of the squad.. I believe Hibs have a crap mindset and this contributes to our poor record against Hertz.. Roy Keane said a few years ago now that teams are beat in the tunnel and I feel that its the case here...

PF has the biggest challenge of his Hibs just now trying to keep us up but he also faces the massive job of re-building the squad over the summer when the vast majority of the loanees leave and if any players out of contract leave the club... This will be where Petrie comes in.. Will RP back PF in the summer and allow him to bring in the players he wants or will it be yet another case of holding off until the last minute and waiting to see if we can find some decent players at the lower end of the wages bracket ???

[matty_f]

I think Pat has a huge amount of goodwill amongst the fans, and most (if not all) of us are on his side. His record has to improve though, and like it or not, he has to start turning up for, and winning derbies.

Probably his biggest challenge right now is convincing enough of us that there's grounds for optimism for next season so that the stadium isn't empty.

Hibs have to wake up to the fact that the season ticket proposition isn't that attractive to a large number of fans, and while a lot of us will renew regardless, many won't.

The responsibility now really lies on Pat's shoulders to deliver performances and results that will entice people back to Easter Road.

I genuinely like Fenlon, and believe that he's more than capable of turning us around, but unless he finishes the season strongly, he's going to have a mountain to climb next season when he starts trying to bring in quality en mass, on a shoe-string budget.

[Hibernia&Alba]

I think Pat has a huge amount of goodwill amongst the fans, and most (if not all) of us are on his side. His record has to improve though, and like it or not, he has to start turning up for, and winning derbies.

Probably his biggest challenge right now is convincing enough of us that there's grounds for optimism for next season so that the stadium isn't empty.

Hibs have to wake up to the fact that the season ticket proposition isn't that attractive to a large number of fans, and while a lot of us will renew regardless, many won't.

The responsibility now really lies on Pat's shoulders to deliver performances and results that will entice people back to Easter Road.

I genuinely like Fenlon, and believe that he's more than capable of turning us around, but unless he finishes the season strongly, he's going to have a mountain to climb next season when he starts trying to bring in quality en mass, on a shoe-string budget.

A well balanced view, IMO, Matty. We all want Pat to have a long and happy stay as Hibs manager, but you're right, it's a big ask. Massive changes are needed to the squad, and maintaining crowds won't be easy. It's a chicken and egg situation - the club needs the fans to put their money in, the fans want something to cheer about before committing so much money. Success in his first few months means retaining SPL status. Right now I ask nothing more, though of course if he won the cup he'd be a legend for all time. Next season he must produce an improvement on the pitch. We'll be wanting the groundwork laid for a settled team and a respectable place in the table. It's very early days and he's been trying to rectify a shambles. Give him time to get this season out of the way and to really crack on in the summer. I'm hopeful he can take on this huge challenge. Another change of manager a few months down the line, which of course would mean starting over yet again, is a dreadful prospect.

[NORTHERNHIBBY]

The time to judge Fenlon is next season. I am sure that Dunfermline will go down, but the Ross County side coming up will be a different prospect.

[Hibees07]

How much is enough time?.

I personally expected much more than what I have witnessed so far.

Plenty new players, with very little improvement.

[mca]

The time to judge Fenlon is next season. I am sure that Dunfermline will go down, but the Ross County side coming up will be a different prospect.


We let the wrong man leave.. should have been calderwood that went to county..


i always knew / reckoned - that derek adams would come and bite hibs on the erse..:aok:

[Ozyhibby]

I think he needs to be given time, not because of anything I see in Fenlon but because we can't keep changing managers every few months.
The fact is Fenlon's start to his Hibs career has been nothing short of abysmal.
And I don't subscribe to the view that he has a good eye for a player. Soares and O'Donovan were the worst players on the park on Sunday and Doyle should be playing Sunday league. Doherty and Mcpake were badly exposed for hearts 1st and taoull skint Claros for the 2nd. How he got the name 'the pitbull' I don't know. If that's a good eye for a player then we are in trouble this summer.
Hope I'm wrong but I doubt it.

[lucky]

It's early days for PF, but the jury is still out. If we were out the cup already I don't think he would be getting off so lightly. Both games against the Yams have been awful. The old firm both hammered us. Failure to win games at home is also worrying. But a big win at the pars was good. His signings are ok. McPAKE, Francombe, Doherty and Kujabi all look decent. Undecided on Soares. Not impressed by Claros or Doyle, both look to slow for the SPL. As I said mixed bag but will give him time but renewing ST is another matter. Ugly losing football is not worth the money Hibs want

[Northernhibee]

I don't think Pat Fenlon needs a bit of time, I think he needs a considerable amount of time. Hughes followed by Calderwood has been the perfect storm for us and we've seen a lack of youngsters break through into the first team - Booth aside.

Once we're safe from relegation we have to stop looking short term. Get a bunch of talented youngsters in. Get them passing the ball on the deck, passing and moving, playing with a smile on their faces. Get the basics right, engage local schools and get a constant supply of youngsters coming through who are skilled, know the basics and are desperate to play in the green and white. Stop getting on players backs if they have an off-day and instead encourage good attractive football. Be open and have the fans as part of the team, and show those that have chosen to not come back that we have a new attitude and that we want them back and their attendance only improves Hibs.

Let's put together a good, young team that will only improve in time and inspire the next generation of young Hibees.

[The Green Goblin]

I worry that the job is too big for one man, no matter how good he is. I like Fenlon though, and I hope he succeeds.

[rossi]

Nah! let's hound him out then moan about the board sacking a manager before an AGM. It's what we do isn't it? Look how much things have improved since we hounded Mixu out. :wink:

[MWHIBBIES]

How much is enough time?.

I personally expected much more than what I have witnessed so far.

Plenty new players, with very little improvement.Yeah, that's right, lets just keep punting managers until one of them wins their first 10 games.

There has also been a lot of improvement, amazing how one result makes a lot of people forget that.

[Part/Time Supporter]

Fenlon's biggest challenge now is that so many Hibs fans who have loyally stuck with the club over the last 5 years have had enough and will not renew their STs. With much less money from Penny Pinching Petrie there's no guarantee that Fenlon can improve on what we have at present. Lean times ahead, me thinks.

To put Hibs record into perspective Killie (who are a very average club in Scotland) has won both the Scottish Cup and League cup within the last 15 years and reached 2 finals in the last 5 years.

That's one way of spinning it. Sunday's result was also the first time Killie had beaten Celtic in Glasgow since the 1950s (!) and the first time they had won a cup final at Hampden since 1929.

[Onion]

I think Pat has a huge amount of goodwill amongst the fans, and most (if not all) of us are on his side. His record has to improve though, and like it or not, he has to start turning up for, and winning derbies.

Probably his biggest challenge right now is convincing enough of us that there's grounds for optimism for next season so that the stadium isn't empty.

Hibs have to wake up to the fact that the season ticket proposition isn't that attractive to a large number of fans, and while a lot of us will renew regardless, many won't.

The responsibility now really lies on Pat's shoulders to deliver performances and results that will entice people back to Easter Road.

I genuinely like Fenlon, and believe that he's more than capable of turning us around, but unless he finishes the season strongly, he's going to have a mountain to climb next season when he starts trying to bring in quality en mass, on a shoe-string budget.

Signs of sustained improvement are needed to start giving Hibs fans reasons to believe in the team again. The odd win against Killie and draw against St Mirren gives us short respite, but that's all undone when we get hammered by celtic and beat again by the yams. IMHO the ONLY thing that will make any positive difference to ST sales will be if we WIN the cup.

Petrie has no idea how bad ST sales are going to be next season - IMHO they will fall off a cliff. Many people have simply had enough.

[truehibernian]

You don't have to look to far away from the word continuity if you want to apportion blame on performance.

Hibernian have had 3 managers in two seasons. Twice last season the team was transformed half way through the season, and we survived by the skin of our teeth. Twice this season the team has received surgery. Essentially four different teams in two seasons, taking into consideration the windows. That revolving door must take some amount of WD40 to keep people coming and going.


That's why Pat should be given the length of his contract, even if the worst happens. That is also why those at the top need to have their behinds kicked and STF needs to examine whether or not the club needs a 'new broom' to take us forward into the next chapter. I said two weeks ago......for the club to be fully re-energised, there needs to be an overhaul at the top, as many many fans I speak to remain unconvinced at Rod, Scott and Fyfe. Nothing to do with penny pinching, reputations for being miserly - I think that's both unfair and untrue to be honest. But they, for me, typify where we are - unemotional in defeat (really - we have become accepting these days), lacking real enthusiasm and verve, and very stuffy. The boardroom needs (like a football team) a youthful energy and someone who is a far better link to the fans. Our board have become detached - to the point where I honestly don't think they listen to the fans. Well they do, it's just they go ahead and do what they had intended anyway. The season ticket prices are an example of that - absolutely missed a trick not cutting prices and using that as an acknowledgment for their failing the fans - show empathy, give something back, the fans will take that as a show of good faith. Instead Rod made me cringe using the football debate programme to shamelessly plug our 'costs' to watch football and plug the season ticket. Strange how he didn't take that opportunity to say we are one of the most expensive teams to follow in the SPL ?

So for me, continuity on the football side of things for 3 seasons, let the team settle and develop. But at the top, their comfort zone needs shaken a little.

[Ozyhibby]

You don't have to look to far away from the word continuity if you want to apportion blame on performance.

Hibernian have had 3 managers in two seasons. Twice last season the team was transformed half way through the season, and we survived by the skin of our teeth. Twice this season the team has received surgery. Essentially four different teams in two seasons, taking into consideration the windows. That revolving door must take some amount of WD40 to keep people coming and going.


That's why Pat should be given the length of his contract, even if the worst happens. That is also why those at the top need to have their behinds kicked and STF needs to examine whether or not the club needs a 'new broom' to take us forward into the next chapter. I said two weeks ago......for the club to be fully re-energised, there needs to be an overhaul at the top, as many many fans I speak to remain unconvinced at Rod, Scott and Fyfe. Nothing to do with penny pinching, reputations for being miserly - I think that's both unfair and untrue to be honest. But they, for me, typify where we are - unemotional in defeat (really - we have become accepting these days), lacking real enthusiasm and verve, and very stuffy. The boardroom needs (like a football team) a youthful energy and someone who is a far better link to the fans. Our board have become detached - to the point where I honestly don't think they listen to the fans. Well they do, it's just they go ahead and do what they had intended anyway. The season ticket prices are an example of that - absolutely missed a trick not cutting prices and using that as an acknowledgment for their failing the fans - show empathy, give something back, the fans will take that as a show of good faith. Instead Rod made me cringe using the football debate programme to shamelessly plug our 'costs' to watch football and plug the season ticket. Strange how he didn't take that opportunity to say we are one of the most expensive teams to follow in the SPL ?

So for me, continuity on the football side of things for 3 seasons, let the team settle and develop. But at the top, their comfort zone needs shaken a little.

That would have been an easier sell if he had at least improved results a little bit from calderwood. He hasn't.

[Beefster]

That's one way of spinning it. Sunday's result was also the first time Killie had beaten Celtic in Glasgow since the 1950s (!) and the first time they had won a cup final at Hampden since 1929.

Yours is definitely more spin that Onion's. I'm fairly sure that the fact that Kilmarnock won the Scottish Cup at Ibrox matters as much to them as winning the League Cup at Celtic Park in 1993 would have mattered to us.

[truehibernian]

That would have been an easier sell if he had at least improved results a little bit from calderwood. He hasn't.

I hear what you are saying mate, but break it down a little (beyond the stats) - Pat has taken us to a Scottish Cup semi final. Yes some will argue the route was 'easy' - however we faced the top side in the Second Division off the back of a poor run when everyone and their auntie were willing Hibs to fail (even after a goal conceded from kick off). We negotiated our way past Killie who have earned plaudits all season for their play. And we beat Ayr United convincingly when again folk had the 'cup shock' result on their coupons.

In the league, he has steadied us at the back. We are a few games in after the window where he had the chance to get some in. Beat Killie well again, beat Dunfermline with a bit of grit and fight, should have beaten Aberdeen and Saints, and were unlucky versus a vibrant Well. Against Hearts - he'll be both unhappy and disappointed that they froze and didn't turn up.


For me, the football is better, it's taking better shape than under Calderwood, and it's absolutely clear he loves his football. There is passion there - we are all (I think) still rousing from the coma that was Calderwood (in many senses).

[Baldy Foghorn]

His record so far. Played 15. Won 2 Drawn 3. Lost 10.

Needs to start getting the team to win more game's at ER. :agree:

Win more games at ER, one or two would be be nice:greengrin

[Robinho08]

I have every faith in Nutsy, he's the man for the job.

[IWasThere2016]

Yours is definitely more spin that Onion's. I'm fairly sure that the fact that Kilmarnock won the Scottish Cup at Ibrox matters as much to them as winning the League Cup at Celtic Park in 1993 would have mattered to us.

:agree: WTF does it matter where they won the SC???

An after ET and pens win v Gala Fairydean on the moon would do me nicely!!

[Part/Time Supporter]

Yours is definitely more spin that Onion's. I'm fairly sure that the fact that Kilmarnock won the Scottish Cup at Ibrox matters as much to them as winning the League Cup at Celtic Park in 1993 would have mattered to us.

Well, he was making a big deal about how Killie have won 2 trophies in 15 years. You could also say they've only won 3 trophies in over 80 years.

[IWasThere2016]

Well, he was making a big deal about how Killie have won 2 trophies in 15 years. You could also say they've only won 3 trophies in over 80 years.

Save that's irrelevant as none of us were there to see it and the context is current/recent years as we have grossly under-achieved!

[Part/Time Supporter]

Save that's irrelevant as none of us were there to see it and the context is current/recent years as we have grossly under-achieved!

Compared to whom, and over what time period?

Last two seasons, yes. Beyond that, no.

[IWasThere2016]

Compared to whom, and over what time period?

Last two seasons, yes. Beyond that, no.

We are IMHO the biggest under-achievers in Scotland given our size/support etc

[Part/Time Supporter]

We are IMHO the biggest under-achievers in Scotland given our size/support etc

Any factual basis for that opinion?

[Ozyhibby]

We are IMHO the biggest under-achievers in Scotland given our size/support etc

100% agree

[The Sea-gull]

When CC left I felt we needed an experienced SPL manager to steer us clear of the drop. We didn't get that, we got PF which may prove to be a forward thinking long term good option but could be an absolute disaster of an appointment if we go down.

For me, things were so bad his only real remit for the first 6 months of the job was and still is (given we are still right in the mire) avoid the drop. He has tried to do this by reshaping the squad with a short term focus geared towards keeping us up. If he is successful in doing this his real work starts in the summer when he has to start making signings with a long term approach, a balance of young and old, SPL players who know the league and one or two "rabbits out the hat". He also has to try and work out a style which will win first and foremost but also entertain.

The stats so far have been terrible but things have improved since CC was at the helm; not really a massive compliment though! At least this summer we will have someone who wants to be here and will work hard for the season ahead.

Regards the amount of time we give PF, if he keeps us up and if we get into the season looking like we will at least be troubling the top of the bottom 6 rather than battling relegation then that sadly is progress albeit minimal but should be enough to give him more time in the job.

If we look anywhere near like getting relegated midway through next season then he has to go. We can't afford to go down.

[Hibernia&Alba]

We are IMHO the biggest under-achievers in Scotland given our size/support etc

Yams are hardly any better. In truth, both capital city clubs haven't punched their weight through the decades, and that's even when you factor in the size and power of the Old Firm. Dundee United, too, perhaps?

[loanheadhibby]

Very confident he will. Would also like to see a real change at the top pre-season too, with Rod stepping aside and getting someone with the same Fenlon passion at the helm.

Player wise - letting go Galbraith, Stephens, Welsh (sadly), Stack, O'Connor and Wotherspoon for me

Securing McPake, Griffiths and Francomb key for me from the loanees.

Bids for Hayes, Lee Croft and Deano would be ideal.

Then smart scouting in the Scottish lower leagues and easing in Caldwell, Handling, Forster and Stanton.

I hope PF does well. We need him to do well after the last 3 years.

Does PF have the relevant eye for a player tho? We end up with O'Donovan and the tramps get Beattie. Who would you rather have in your team? I would have bet on Beattie scoring O'Donovan's chance. Would you bet on Roy finishing Beatties chance?

I don't know if PF was ever interested in Beattie but I remain to be convinced that Doyle or O'Donovan will make an impact. Which in turn makes me questions does PF really have an eye for a player?

[loanheadhibby]

one further point. For all Blunderwood's failings and there were many. The players he signed last January managed 5 wins on the bounce and got us to safety comfortably.

Is there anything to suggest that this team can win 5 league games on the bounce?

[Hibrandenburg]

I hope PF does well. We need him to do well after the last 3 years.

Does PF have the relevant eye for a player tho? We end up with O'Donovan and the tramps get Beattie. Who would you rather have in your team? I would have bet on Beattie scoring O'Donovan's chance. Would you bet on Roy finishing Beatties chance?

I don't know if PF was ever interested in Beattie but I remain to be convinced that Doyle or O'Donovan will make an impact. Which in turn makes me questions does PF really have an eye for a player?
There's having an eye for a player and there's having an eye for a player. PF is probably having to readjust his opinion on what's needed to have success in the SPL. Knowing what will win games in the LOI doesn't guarantee SPL success.

The start of next season will show if PF has got his transition right, here's hoping.

[silverhibee]

Yeah, that's right, lets just keep punting managers until one of them wins their first 10 games.

There has also been a lot of improvement, amazing how one result makes a lot of people forget that.

Its not one result though is it.

PF has been in charge for 15 games in the SPL now, he has lost 10, won 2, drawn 3, not a great record and as everyone know's it is a results business that we are in, he needs to start winning more games soon, yes things have improved slightly on the pitch and we are looking a little better competing against teams, but that counts for nothing if there is no points at the end of the 90 minutes.

Next 3 games are a big test for us, no points from these games and there will be more question asked if PF is the right man for the job.

He was brought in to keep us in the SPL, if he fails to do that then we may not have to wait until the next AGM for a new manager. :aok:

[iain nolan]

Pat Fenlon will only be sacked if hibs drop down and start very very badly in the 1st div and thats the way it should be . Pat aim is to show inprovement over the next 3 years nothing else . any cup win in that time would be great but his main aim is to get us in a higher league postion ever year he at the club . lets walk before we run as they say next season aim FINNISH ABOVE BOTTOM 2 next again season top 6 then season after that top 4 . will the fans accept that ??????
no we expect a top 6 place every season . we all talk about given managers time but we never give them it .
lets just say we sacked him or he left who would replace him cant see any off the currant top 6 managers coming to us and would any off the bottom 6 be any better maybe butcher but he ex rangers so that would go against him from the start. 1st div outstanding manager that seems to be derek adams and yes he was at hibs never understood why board never got rid off calderwood and let him take 1st team we maybe lost out there. all the rest off the managers are a risk in the lower leagues .
kenny shields just won cup do we go for him dont think so .

the one great thing about being a hibee is you always have high and lows with our club .

a wee scottish cup win would be nice and who ever wins it will be famous for ever:flag:

[silverhibee]

I hear what you are saying mate, but break it down a little (beyond the stats) - Pat has taken us to a Scottish Cup semi final. Yes some will argue the route was 'easy' - however we faced the top side in the Second Division off the back of a poor run when everyone and their auntie were willing Hibs to fail (even after a goal conceded from kick off). We negotiated our way past Killie who have earned plaudits all season for their play. And we beat Ayr United convincingly when again folk had the 'cup shock' result on their coupons.

In the league, he has steadied us at the back. We are a few games in after the window where he had the chance to get some in. Beat Killie well again, beat Dunfermline with a bit of grit and fight, should have beaten Aberdeen and Saints, and were unlucky versus a vibrant Well. Against Hearts - he'll be both unhappy and disappointed that they froze and didn't turn up.


For me, the football is better, it's taking better shape than under Calderwood, and it's absolutely clear he loves his football. There is passion there - we are all (I think) still rousing from the coma that was Calderwood (in many senses).

Agree with you there TH, but i could say the same thing for Yogi regarding the bit in bold, and that didn't end up to good did it,, if the unthinkable were to happen and we get relegated and get knocked out the cup then for me its not a clear out of players we need, it has to start from the top, the club like to bring out the "Hibs Family Stuff", well has our Dad been at a game this season, and do our uncles really get that upset like us after a defeat, there is no unity at the club and it doesn't look like a big happy family from where i am sitting, families are all about sticking together and pulling through the hard times, i would say that about only 10% of the players have ever met our owner, i am sure he is a busy man but he could pop along every now and again to watch his family play football or nip in to the changing room and have a chat with the players before a game or even we visits to EM to let the players know he care's about them to take time out to see how they are doing and getting on, there is no bond between the players and the Board or with the owner, that needs to change and get back to being the happy family we used to be when our owner was doing these thing i have mentioned above. imo

Or maybe the damage has been done by the people running the club for our Dad:greengrin, how many players have you spoke to past and present that have a good thing to say about RP SL and FH, not many i bet. :aok:

[IWasThere2016]

Any factual basis for that opinion?

Have you to say otherwise?

In my lifetime I have seen Aberdeen, DU, Hearts, Killie, Motherwell and St Mirren - some of this lot more than once - win the SC.

Is that factual enough to highlight our shortcomings .. I would say it definitely is!

[The Sea-gull]

Have you to say otherwise?

In my lifetime I have seen Aberdeen, DU, Hearts, Killie, Motherwell and St Mirren - some of this lot more than once - win the SC.

Is that factual enough to highlight our shortcomings .. I would say it definitely is!

All true and factual. Depends how much emphasis you want to put on the category of the cup though.

In your life time Hibs have won the league cup three times. United have won 4 trophies in this time. Aberdeen loads during their purple patch. Has any other non old firm team won three major trophies or more in your life time?

When it comes to trophies, in a Scottish context we are doing ok for the last 40 years or so - better than most, the lack of success in the "big" cup tends to mean our wins in the LC are overlooked by us, the media and fans of other clubs.

Yes we have punched below our weight in terms of league placings during this period though.

[Eyrie]

Any factual basis for that opinion?

Sure. In my lifetime (going back to season 69/70) our average league finish is 6th and for both cups we average the round before the quarter finals. In 43 seasons (including this) we've won three cups out of 85 attempts, yet are meant to be one of the five biggest clubs in Scottish football.

We are underachievers and as fans have every right to be disappointed.

I have faith that Fenlon will improve matters but he needs time.