PDA

View Full Version : Yams Audited accounts?



Ozyhibby
11-03-2012, 10:43 PM
Do they have to submit audited accounts by the end of the month to be able to play in Europe?
Not seen any mention of it in the press.

down-the-slope
11-03-2012, 10:48 PM
Yes

jgl07
11-03-2012, 10:54 PM
Do they have to submit audited accounts by the end of the month to be able to play in Europe?
Not seen any mention of it in the press.

I don't think you will either.

For the past two or three years, maybe more, Hearts have been technically insolvent. The only reason the auditors signed up for the past two years is that they have accepted assurances that UBIG are backing Hearts financially. This was a leap of faith because UBIG themselves have not produced any accounts for some time.

Now since Romanov has publically stated that UBIG will no longer continue to pump money into Hearts, the Auditors would be foolish to accept any such assurances this time even if they are forthcoming.

Hence no audited accounts so far. Hence no Hearts in Europe even if they do qualify.

They are not currently in a qualifying position anyway.

Ozyhibby
11-03-2012, 11:01 PM
Good, just that with rangers out the picture there would be an extra place available, so it's nice to know it's not going to them.

CropleyWasGod
11-03-2012, 11:03 PM
It's all part of Rod's master plan.

Sod good fitba....good Balance Sheets will get us into Europe :cb

inglisavhibs
11-03-2012, 11:03 PM
Do they have to submit audited accounts by the end of the month to be able to play in Europe?
Not seen any mention of it in the press.

They are between a rock and a hard place as they can't go into administration (ubig would lose a lot of money as they are by far the main creditor) and they can't really afford to keep hearts going. The only positive is that they take over 2m in interest from Hearts each year. Can't see how UbIG can get out of this.

CropleyWasGod
11-03-2012, 11:05 PM
They are between a rock and a hard place as they can't go into administration (ubig would lose a lot of money as they are by far the main creditor) and they can't really afford to keep hearts going. The only positive is that they take over 2m in interest from Hearts each year. Can't see how UbIG can get out of this.

I can't see them going into administration tbh. I think it will be straight to the morgue, whenever the cash runs out.

Saorsa
11-03-2012, 11:12 PM
I can't see them going into administration tbh. I think it will be straight to the morgue, whenever the cash runs out.:pray:

http://i19.photobucket.com/albums/b168/jamie1971/smilies%202/dead.gif

greenginger
12-03-2012, 12:05 AM
I think they have to produce their audited accounts for the SPL's scrutiny by the end of April or they could be refused entry to the league next season.:agree:

Jones28
12-03-2012, 12:25 AM
I can't see them going into administration tbh. I think it will be straight to the morgue, whenever the cash runs out.

:agree:

Just like Gretna, the cash stopped and it was a scarily short time after that they went to the wall. Hopefully :pray:

jgl07
12-03-2012, 12:36 AM
:agree:

Just like Gretna, the cash stopped and it was a scarily short time after that they went to the wall. Hopefully :pray:

That's not how I recall it. Gretna went into Administration when the financial plug was pulled. They were propped up by the SPL until the end of the season.

Hopefully there will be a double liquidation by the end of the season?

huggie1875
12-03-2012, 01:31 AM
So thats why theres been all the talk about a 10 team league :lolyam:

Kaiser1962
12-03-2012, 07:34 AM
I can't see them going into administration tbh. I think it will be straight to the morgue, whenever the cash runs out.


The administration process would serve no purpose as creditor and debtor are, to all intents and purposes, one and the same.

That said, however, if rumours of EBT's being used in Campbell Ogilvie's time then HMRC may have a role to play in their eventuall demise although Vlad has managed to keep the wolves at arm's length, thus far at least.

Caversham Green
12-03-2012, 09:04 AM
I don't think you will either.

For the past two or three years, maybe more, Hearts have been technically insolvent. The only reason the auditors signed up for the past two years is that they have accepted assurances that UBIG are backing Hearts financially. This was a leap of faith because UBIG themselves have not produced any accounts for some time.

Now since Romanov has publically stated that UBIG will no longer continue to pump money into Hearts, the Auditors would be foolish to accept any such assurances this time even if they are forthcoming.

Hence no audited accounts so far. Hence no Hearts in Europe even if they do qualify.

They are not currently in a qualifying position anyway.

:agree: The key issue here is 'going concern'. GC is fundamental to any audit and is probably the single most important matter auditors need to consider. Since 2005-06 the accounts and/or audit reports have carried statements to the effect that the club was dependent on the continued financial support of UBIG to remain a going concern. Since the last accounts were issued there have been press reports and a statement on the club's own website suggesting that funding from UBIG was no longer available, so the obvious conclusion is that the club is no longer a going concern.

If the auditors choose to provide a report (unless Mr Romanov can pull something out of the bag PDQ) they will have to state that preparing the accounts on a going concern basis was inappropriate and summarise the difference between the figures as they stand and how they would be on a liquidation basis. That involves a lot of extra work and, besides the questionable ethics of incurring costs which the client can't afford, they are unlikely to be paid for it ....as the club is not a going concern.

I'll be interested from a professional point of view to see how it all pans out.

Caversham Green
12-03-2012, 09:13 AM
The administration process would serve no purpose as creditor and debtor are, to all intents and purposes, one and the same.

That said, however, if rumours of EBT's being used in Campbell Ogilvie's time then HMRC may have a role to play in their eventuall demise although Vlad has managed to keep the wolves at arm's length, thus far at least.

I reckon the club itself would benefit from administration, but the truth is that Mr Romanov/UBIG can achieve the same result (for themselves) without incurring the costs - in fact it could be argued that they are already doing that by stopping the funding, trying to sell players and 'advertising' the club for sale. They have far less chance of finding a buyer than Rangers (I agree with Phil McGullible's view on that BTW) and, unless Mr Romanov has a 'Road to Yamascus' moment, the only other likely scenario is liquidation.

Ozyhibby
12-03-2012, 09:14 AM
Is it the SFA or EUFA who enforce this? Is it likely to happen?

Caversham Green
12-03-2012, 09:18 AM
Is it the SFA or EUFA who enforce this? Is it likely to happen?

As I understand it it's a UEFA guideline, but the SFA have the option to put a club forward even if they are in default. Can't see them doing that in the current climate though.

johnrebus
12-03-2012, 09:29 AM
Vlad has been remarkably quiet recently - upstaged by the Huns obviously.

However, it is only a matter of time before he goes off on another one.

But who is to say he won't have a volte face and start pumping cash back into the club? He is as unpredictable as the Scottish weather.



:Romanov:

jgl07
16-03-2012, 12:48 AM
As I understand it it's a UEFA guideline, but the SFA have the option to put a club forward even if they are in default. Can't see them doing that in the current climate though.

Given the news that hearts players will not be paid on time yet again this month will add to the factors that the auditors will need to consider before signing off the Hearts' Accounts.

It will make it even less likely that Hearts will be put forward for a European place even if they do finish in a qualifying position.

IWasThere2016
16-03-2012, 07:00 AM
It's all part of Rod's master plan.

Sod good fitba....good Balance Sheets will get us into Europe :cb

Sensible conttingency given his ability to appoint decent managers :wink:

The Yams could still qualify for Europe via the Cup, and I'm sure Vlad's watching very closely the situation at the Big(oted) Hoose :

NYHibby
16-03-2012, 07:51 AM
The Yams could still qualify for Europe via the Cup, and I'm sure Vlad's watching very closely the situation at the Big(oted) Hoose :

The same UEFA rules apply if you qualify via the cup versus if you qualify via the league.

Viva_Palmeiras
16-03-2012, 07:57 AM
I can't see them going into administration tbh. I think it will be straight to the morgue, whenever the cash runs out.

What if Vlad does a debt for equity swap taking his controlling interest to over 90% ?
Can he then not make the company private and therefore have no need to publish accounts for public scrutiny?
as I understand it Bransons empire is/was run in a similar way - so noone really knows what the secret of success is. Gives more flexibility and less constraints/obligations re stock exchange?

DOH! See it's accounts for the Spl scrutiny..

NYHibby
16-03-2012, 08:06 AM
Yeah, regardless of any Companies Act requirements, he would still need to comply with SPL/SFA/UEFA rules.

Kaiser1962
16-03-2012, 08:23 AM
I reckon the club itself would benefit from administration, but the truth is that Mr Romanov/UBIG can achieve the same result (for themselves) without incurring the costs - in fact it could be argued that they are already doing that by stopping the funding, trying to sell players and 'advertising' the club for sale. They have far less chance of finding a buyer than Rangers (I agree with Phil McGullible's view on that BTW) and, unless Mr Romanov has a 'Road to Yamascus' moment, the only other likely scenario is liquidation.

I would think its one of their few ways out of this, if not the only one.

I perhaps should have said that I couldnt see how administration would benefit Vlad/UBIG/Ukio which may explain why Vlad, unlike Whyte, has kept HMRC at arms length and ensured the taxman has been paid at the expense of the staff when the Hun did it the other way round.

HIBERNIAN-0762
16-03-2012, 08:28 AM
So, after all this legal mumbo jumbo about this what I want to know is...


WHEN ARE THE S.F.A. GOING TO DO SOMETHING ABOUT THEM??


:confused:

:rolleyes:

Caversham Green
16-03-2012, 09:13 AM
What if Vlad does a debt for equity swap taking his controlling interest to over 90% ?
Can he then not make the company private and therefore have no need to publish accounts for public scrutiny?
as I understand it Bransons empire is/was run in a similar way - so noone really knows what the secret of success is. Gives more flexibility and less constraints/obligations re stock exchange?

DOH! See it's accounts for the Spl scrutiny..

They'd still have to publish audited accounts in any case - slightly less detailed, but they're still required.

Caversham Green
16-03-2012, 09:15 AM
I would think its one of their few ways out of this, if not the only one.

I perhaps should have said that I couldnt see how administration would benefit Vlad/UBIG/Ukio which may explain why Vlad, unlike Whyte, has kept HMRC at arms length and ensured the taxman has been paid at the expense of the staff when the Hun did it the other way round.

:agree: All administration would do is reduce the amount of money Mr Romanov can recover from the rotting corpse of HoMFC.

magpie1892
16-03-2012, 09:41 AM
Vlad has been remarkably quiet recently - upstaged by the Huns obviously.

However, it is only a matter of time before he goes off on another one.

But who is to say he won't have a volte face and start pumping cash back into the club? He is as unpredictable as the Scottish weather.



:Romanov:

Is he not skint? He's not the financial force he once was, that's for sure.

Kato
16-03-2012, 09:53 AM
I just hope we give them a damn good auditing over the weekend.

IWasThere2016
16-03-2012, 10:11 AM
The same UEFA rules apply if you qualify via the cup versus if you qualify via the league.

Correct - but an earlier posts said they were unlikely to qualify for Europe.

Whilst I agree - that is the case - it is possible they may still quality.

Mon the Buddies! :wink:

happiehibbie
16-03-2012, 10:29 AM
I dont know about the accounts etc but what i do know is that Mad Vlad is having meetings with the SPL and SFA to discuss the distribution of Monies to all teams in the SPL he is asking for change in several things and if he gets these changes he HAS told them he will ivest in Scottish football

pentlando
16-03-2012, 10:48 AM
I dont know about the accounts etc but what i do know is that Mad Vlad is having meetings with the SPL and SFA to discuss the distribution of Monies to all teams in the SPL he is asking for change in several things and if he gets these changes he HAS told them he will ivest in Scottish football

The day we break free of the Old Firms dominance to become reliant on a Lithuanian maniac will be just as an bleak outcome.

Golden Bear
16-03-2012, 10:49 AM
I dont know about the accounts etc but what i do know is that Mad Vlad is having meetings with the SPL and SFA to discuss the distribution of Monies to all teams in the SPL he is asking for change in several things and if he gets these changes he HAS told them he will ivest in Scottish football

I suppose they had better listen then.

:rolleyes:

greenginger
16-03-2012, 10:49 AM
I dont know about the accounts etc but what i do know is that Mad Vlad is having meetings with the SPL and SFA to discuss the distribution of Monies to all teams in the SPL he is asking for change in several things and if he gets these changes he HAS told them he will ivest in Scottish football


I wonder what changes he will be wanting ?

May'be being allowed to appoint his referees like he demanded in the Lith. League a couple of years ago.

Or may'be demanding the SFA build a new Yam-Dome now that our Council have taken cold feet on that one.

Invest in Scottish Football ? The Ukio Bankas Scottish Cup has a kind of ring to it. :greengrin

Caversham Green
16-03-2012, 02:53 PM
This might be enough to convince the auditors to give the same qualified report as last year.

http://www.heartsfc.co.uk/articles/20120316/hearts-refutes-funding-doubts_2241384_2662311

Note the last paragraph. They just can't stop themselves from having childish digs at people who won't do their bidding.

greenginger
16-03-2012, 03:09 PM
This might be enough to convince the auditors to give the same qualified report as last year.

http://www.heartsfc.co.uk/articles/20120316/hearts-refutes-funding-doubts_2241384_2662311

Note the last paragraph. They just can't stop themselves from having childish digs at people who won't do their bidding.


" Hearts have been successful with the sale of 3 first tam players raising £ 2 million for the Club."

Wallace , a doubt they will see much of the outstanding £800,000.

Stevenson , I think it was £ 50,000.

Who was the other ? Kello, he would'nt leave. Was there another ? :confused:

Caversham Green
16-03-2012, 03:14 PM
" Hearts have been successful with the sale of 3 first tam players raising £ 2 million for the Club."

Wallace , a doubt they will see much of the outstanding £800,000.

Stevenson , I think it was £ 50,000.

Who was the other ? Kello, he would'nt leave. Was there another ? :confused:

Eggfart Johnsson.

blackpoolhibs
16-03-2012, 03:34 PM
" Hearts have been successful with the sale of 3 first tam players raising £ 2 million for the Club."

Wallace , a doubt they will see much of the outstanding £800,000.

Stevenson , I think it was £ 50,000.

Who was the other ? Kello, he would'nt leave. Was there another ? :confused:

Eggert Johnson, so by their figures they took in £2m but still cant secure funding for players wages?

Yet everything is fine. :greengrin

jgl07
16-03-2012, 03:42 PM
This might be enough to convince the auditors to give the same qualified report as last year.

http://www.heartsfc.co.uk/articles/20120316/hearts-refutes-funding-doubts_2241384_2662311



Are the auditors that stupid (or that corrupt)?

Hearts only seem to be able to pay wages when they have sold a player or two.

Their actions on paying wages and tax bills seems to suggest a chronic lack of working capital.

What are the consequences for auditors who sign off misleading account should the inevitable happen soon after?

Gmack7
16-03-2012, 03:56 PM
I dont know about the accounts etc but what i do know is that Mad Vlad is having meetings with the SPL and SFA to discuss the distribution of Monies to all teams in the SPL he is asking for change in several things and if he gets these changes he HAS told them he will ivest in Scottish football

cheers ror the inside info roman:wink:

Caversham Green
16-03-2012, 04:21 PM
Are the auditors that stupid (or that corrupt)?

Hearts only seem to be able to pay wages when they have sold a player or two.

Their actions on paying wages and tax bills seems to suggest a chronic lack of working capital.

What are the consequences for auditors who sign off misleading account should the inevitable happen soon after?

You have to bear in mind that the auditors are paid by HoMFC, so they will do as much as they can to reduce the impact of the audit report whilst retaining their own integrity. The auditors can now reason that HoMFC have in the past only been able to pay wages when thay have sold a player or two, but there are now assurances on the website that funding will be available again. They have to balance that with the reality in front of them - i.e. the players are not being paid on time again and make their own judgement about what sort of qualification is appropriate. My own approach would be to wait and see how the current situation plays out, but I would now be leaning towards the same qualification as last year (given that HoMFC were my clients). However, I'm not privy to the full information so it's only guesswork on my part.

Auditors could be sued by anyone that has suffered a loss as a result of depending on their audit report (which in practice means anyone dealing with the club) and would also suffer a dent to their reputation. They are monitored by their professional bodies and could suffer fines and suspensions if they are found not to have acted impartially.

greenginger
16-03-2012, 06:06 PM
You have to bear in mind that the auditors are paid by HoMFC, so they will do as much as they can to reduce the impact of the audit report whilst retaining their own integrity. The auditors can now reason that HoMFC have in the past only been able to pay wages when thay have sold a player or two, but there are now assurances on the website that funding will be available again. They have to balance that with the reality in front of them - i.e. the players are not being paid on time again and make their own judgement about what sort of qualification is appropriate. My own approach would be to wait and see how the current situation plays out, but I would now be leaning towards the same qualification as last year (given that HoMFC were my clients). However, I'm not privy to the full information so it's only guesswork on my part.

Auditors could be sued by anyone that has suffered a loss as a result of depending on their audit report (which in practice means anyone dealing with the club) and would also suffer a dent to their reputation. They are monitored by their professional bodies and could suffer fines and suspensions if they are found not to have acted impartially.


I would hope getting sight of the mysterious UBIG Accounts would be request number 1 from their auditors. How can they accept that UBIG have the ability to fund HOMFC after all the wage delays and other late payments without some sort of evidence ?

Caversham Green
16-03-2012, 06:17 PM
I would hope getting sight of the mysterious UBIG Accounts would be request number 1 from their auditors. How can they accept that UBIG have the ability to fund HOMFC after all the wage delays and other late payments without some sort of evidence ?

They can use the same qualification as last year - the message is 'we have been assured that funding will be available, but we have no idea whether UBIG are in a position to give that assurance so you're on your own'.

It could be better for HoMFC that way, one company I audited a few years back was in a similar position to the yams, but they gave me the parent company's accounts. Those accounts showed that the parent did not have enough asset cover to support my client. I was advised to stop work immediately and both companies closed within six months.

greenginger
16-03-2012, 08:12 PM
They can use the same qualification as last year - the message is 'we have been assured that funding will be available, but we have no idea whether UBIG are in a position to give that assurance so you're on your own'.

It could be better for HoMFC that way, one company I audited a few years back was in a similar position to the yams, but they gave me the parent company's accounts. Those accounts showed that the parent did not have enough asset cover to support my client. I was advised to stop work immediately and both companies closed within six months.



That's exactly what I would expect and hope for ! :greengrin

Bostonhibby
16-03-2012, 08:23 PM
I think they have to produce their audited accounts for the SPL's scrutiny by the end of April or they could be refused entry to the league next season.:agree:

Given the scrutiny applied over the solvency and fit and proper person test at Ibrox until the crap actually hit the fan I wouldn't take the SPL part too seriously they couldn't spot a whale in a goldfish bowl.

grunt
16-03-2012, 08:51 PM
This might be enough to convince the auditors to give the same qualified report as last year.

http://www.heartsfc.co.uk/articles/20120316/hearts-refutes-funding-doubts_2241384_2662311
I'm guessing that little article was created solely for the benefit of the auditors.

greenginger
16-03-2012, 08:54 PM
Given the scrutiny applied over the solvency and fit and proper person test at Ibrox until the crap actually hit the fan I wouldn't take the SPL part too seriously they couldn't spot a whale in a goldfish bowl.
http://www.scottishfa.co.uk/resources/documents/ClubLicensing/PartTwo-NationalClubLicensing
/8 Legal Admin & Finance Criteria (2).pdf






I seem to have got it wrong . It would seem SPL clubs have only got until 31st March to provide audited financial statements to the SFA. :agree: Need to go to Page 11 - gold column.

CropleyWasGod
16-03-2012, 09:01 PM
http://www.scottishfa.co.uk/resources/documents/ClubLicensing/PartTwo-NationalClubLicensing/8 Legal Admin & Finance Criteria (2).pdf


I seem to have got it wrong . It would seem SPL clubs have only got until 31st March to provide audited financial statements to the SFA. :agree: Need to go to Page 11 - gold column.

The auditor’s report in respect of
the annual financial statements
shall not include an emphasis
of matter or a qualified
opinion/conclusion in respect of
going concern.

oops :greengrin

grunt
16-03-2012, 09:03 PM
http://www.heartsfc.co.uk/articles/20120316/hearts-refutes-funding-doubts_2241384_2662311
Note the last paragraph. They just can't stop themselves from having childish digs at people who won't do their bidding.I missed this first time round. That paragraph is absolutely shocking! They hired the players and agreed the contracts, and now because the players are seeing out their contracts, they get abused on the club's official website. How low can they go?

jdships
16-03-2012, 09:45 PM
They are between a rock and a hard place as they can't go into administration (ubig would lose a lot of money as they are by far the main creditor) and they can't really afford to keep hearts going. The only positive is that they take over 2m in interest from Hearts each year. Can't see how UbIG can get out of this.

Good post !!
For me the interesting time is going to be when we finish this season and their " cash flow" problems catch up with them.
Club day to day running costs have still to be met never mind anything else :rolleyes:
That plus new contracts will be being offered /discussed and Romanov's threat to stop funding
What sort of team are we gong to see next season at the PBS - if any :greengrin

The worrying thing is that it is becoming evident that Rangers and Hearts are not the only teams in at least some financial trouble .
Many of the clubs are living " hand to mouth" as it is.

greenginger
16-03-2012, 10:50 PM
The auditor’s report in respect of
the annual financial statements
shall not include an emphasis
of matter or a qualified
opinion/conclusion in respect of
going concern.

oops :greengrin

I kind of mis-read that piece. I thought it meant there was no need for the Auditors to include an opinion on going concern basis of a Club.

I see it really means Clubs need the triple A Fitch Rating or much grovelling and the right handshake to keep their place in the League. :greengrin

Hibrandenburg
16-03-2012, 11:00 PM
It's all part of Rod's master plan.

Sod good fitba....good Balance Sheets will get us into Europe :cb

Ah, the master plan. Mentioned this on another thread. We could play ourselves 36 times a year. Sure that on the sporting side we'd still manage to **** it up and somehow knock ourselves out of the SC.

CropleyWasGod
16-03-2012, 11:03 PM
I kind of mis-read that piece. I thought it meant there was no need for the Auditors to include an opinion on going concern basis of a Club.

I see it really means Clubs need the triple A Fitch Rating or much grovelling and the right handshake to keep their place in the League. :greengrin

Seems so. I had thought that the 31 March deadline was only for getting a licence to play in Europe. From that post, it seems to apply to Scotland as well.

Given that last year's accounts had that kind of Report, I'm presuming that this is a new requirement. Anyone?

greenlex
16-03-2012, 11:09 PM
I missed this first time round. That paragraph is absolutely shocking! They hired the players and agreed the contracts, and now because the players are seeing out their contracts, they get abused on the club's official website. How low can they go?

Here's hoping that the players they are having a go at and not paying on time make a timely complaint to the SPL about their wages not being paid.

greenginger
16-03-2012, 11:35 PM
Seems so. I had thought that the 31 March deadline was only for getting a licence to play in Europe. From that post, it seems to apply to Scotland as well.

Given that last year's accounts had that kind of Report, I'm presuming that this is a new requirement. Anyone?


Its all part of the SFA 's Club Licensing procedures. The new regulations were published on 28th Dec 2011 according to the web site so this must be the first time clubs have had to conform.

I wonder what the chances are of some of it being " lost in translation " down Gorgie way.

jgl07
16-03-2012, 11:47 PM
Seems so. I had thought that the 31 March deadline was only for getting a licence to play in Europe. From that post, it seems to apply to Scotland as well.

Given that last year's accounts had that kind of Report, I'm presuming that this is a new requirement. Anyone?

Where does that leave Rangers since they have admitted that they have no hope of getting audited accounts in before the end of this month?

CropleyWasGod
16-03-2012, 11:49 PM
Where does that leave Rangersd since they have admitted that they have no hope of getting audited accounts in before the end of this month?

I suspect that, as it's the first year of the new regs., there will be a censure and no further action this year. That would apply to both teams.

hibs0666
17-03-2012, 12:21 AM
http://www.scottishfa.co.uk/resources/documents/ClubLicensing/PartTwo-NationalClubLicensing
/8 Legal Admin & Finance Criteria (2).pdf






I seem to have got it wrong . It would seem SPL clubs have only got until 31st March to provide audited financial statements to the SFA. :agree: Need to go to Page 11 - gold column.

So both the huns and the wee huns fail to qualify even at the entry level for a national licence?

What a shambles.

greenginger
17-03-2012, 10:08 AM
This might be enough to convince the auditors to give the same qualified report as last year.

http://www.heartsfc.co.uk/articles/20120316/hearts-refutes-funding-doubts_2241384_2662311

Note the last paragraph. They just can't stop themselves from having childish digs at people who won't do their bidding.



I think they are trying to re-write history here.

Vlad's statement on the Heart's Club web-site from 5/1/2012.

" I am going to reiterate once again - I am not going to gift the Club money anymore "

grunt
17-03-2012, 11:26 AM
I think they are trying to re-write history here.
Vlad's statement on the Heart's Club web-site from 5/1/2012.
" I am going to reiterate once again - I am not going to gift the Club money anymore "I'm convinced it has been posted to placate the auditors. [Edit] ... and to upset the "fringe" players.