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The Sea-gull
08-03-2012, 09:00 AM
http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/scotland/17295379

He basically says the only way any new "ashes" Rangers club can get back into Scottish football is by getting revoted into the SPL. They cannot join the SFL in div 3 so if the SPL won't have them back then they can't come back to Scottish football.

What I don't understand is, if Rangers go bust why can't the SPL promote the first division runners up or have no relegation, then the divisions below do some shuffling to create a space in the third division. This space is then put out for clubs to apply for and why could any new Rangers club (bearing in mind it is a completely new club) apply for this space along with the likes of Spartans, Gala Fairydean, Preston Athletic, Whitehill Welfare and the assorted Highland league teams who usually come forward? Could anyone not start a club and providing they can prove certain criteria (stadium to use, funds for players etc) apply for a place in the league should one come available.

I would be very dissappointed if Rangers just get to come back into the SPL as if nothing has happened, points deductions or no points deductions. This is not a strong enough message to send out.

PS - maybe I have missed some but is this not wee Chicko's first blog since the administration was announced? Funny how, if it is his first blog, it is a relatively positive piece for Rangers in that it basically says that they have an SPL future in some shape or form no matter what.

WindyMiller
08-03-2012, 09:06 AM
The new Rangers will just have to do an Airdrie United.

The other SPL clubs should take the opportunity to change the face of Scottish football for ever.

Viva_Palmeiras
08-03-2012, 09:09 AM
Weren't Gretna supposed to start back in div 3?
If so why not rangers.
And even if it were the case does he seriously think that the sfl wouldn't have them and make allowances? Sorry didn't read the article just your summary

Green&White
08-03-2012, 09:12 AM
Ive not read the article, basically cause i cant bare to read anything chick young has written but hes got to be slavering pash if hes said that a new rangers couldnt get into the 3rd div.

i dont know all the rules etc but i reckon the SFL would bite their hand off. think about how much money it would make the 3rd div and upwards with a team bringing big crowds to wee'r teams like forfar and east fife etc.

i wouldnt listen to a word that tosser says or writes.:blah:

lapsedhibee
08-03-2012, 09:13 AM
"The Ibrox following - 50,000 paying customers a home game - won't slice their loyalties and follow on elsewhere.
They will simply evaporate from our sport"

Woohoo!

CallumLaidlaw
08-03-2012, 09:15 AM
With Ross getting promoted to the spl, that would free up an sfl slot so rangers newco could apply for the slot along with any other highland/junior side. And the sfl would snap their hands off!!!

nonshinyfinish
08-03-2012, 09:15 AM
The new Rangers will just have to do an Airdrie United.

The other SPL clubs should take the opportunity to change the face of Scottish football for ever.

That's what I think will happen if the SPL don't let them back in - buy an SFL club's registration.

CentreLine
08-03-2012, 09:19 AM
Posted on another thread but I think it is more appropriate here:

I believe there has to be a certain amount of natural justice in a Newco Rangers starting again at the foot of Div3. They would bring good crowds to games by comparison to other teams. Consequently, as they progressed up through leagues 3, 2, and 1, they would leave behind a financial benefit to each of the SFL clubs. This in itself would ensure that Rangers go some way to redressing the balance for a Scottish football system that they have been cheating for years.

In the meantime the SPL would be a fairer and more competitive league which in turn might generate substantial interest from walk-up fans. I am not convinced that the TV companies would abandon that scenario although they may want to renegotiate some.

I see this being a fair and acceptable form of “punishment” that has the potential to leave a genuine legacy the entire length of the professional game in this country. The Rangers that emerged from the process might even be due some plaudits. Perhaps that is pushing the boundaries a little too far.

keep the faith
08-03-2012, 09:20 AM
Im sure i read that the sky/espn deals are dependant on the old firm being in the spl. did i imagine this?
If thats the case its a scandal that deal was signed and any decision on where a new huns will play will be loaded with self interest.
Any new team has to apply to join div 3 surely. if they liquidate and go back into the spl scottish football goes beyond a laughing stock and into the realm of pointless.

The Sea-gull
08-03-2012, 09:20 AM
Weren't Gretna supposed to start back in div 3?
If so why not rangers.
And even if it were the case does he seriously think that the sfl wouldn't have them and make allowances? Sorry didn't read the article just your summary

I think the situation with Grenta was different as they were relegated based on their league place so were an SFL club when they were demoted to the third division.

The Sea-gull
08-03-2012, 09:21 AM
Going on the tone of Rod Petrie's recent comments, he won't be for making it easy for them to slime their way back in.

Hopefully other clubs top men think the same.

down-the-slope
08-03-2012, 09:21 AM
what he is saying is true under the current rules....but we all know the rule book can be ripped up and rewritten to suit...and I suspect will be

Its part of the 'we cant live without them propaganda'...so by saying its have newco back or lose (all that money for ever) them for ever then it there to put pressure on.

For me the real balls needs to be chairmen having the voting system changed while Ranger are out the picture so that the future when some form of 'royalist' team will emerge it can't along with Celtic hold the rest to ransom.

My solution would be to void all their matches and so leave them bottom of league with no points and so relegated with RC coming up...there is an arrangement for this with no rule change...
It would then be up to SFL to decide if NEWCO could play in Div 1 / was solvent etc...


Obviously there would need to be some 'hot ball' draws to ensure cup games to suit SKY :wink:

TheEastTerrace
08-03-2012, 09:24 AM
The propaganda machine is gearing up - expect much more along these lines from the likes of the Daily Record and The Sun.

RFC may not survive as we know it but they will find a way to get them back into the SPL.

Once that's done, I'm done with Scottish football.

greenginger
08-03-2012, 09:28 AM
Rule 14 of the SPL Articles of Association state quite clearly what happens in terms of a "winding up of a member ".

The share or membership of the SPL is passed to who ever the SPL Board nominate which is decided by a general meeting of all SPL members passing a " Special Qualified Resolution" requiring 83% approval.

Thats the situation if they see the season out , if they go bust without completing their fixtures then its a simple no relegation and one team promoted to form the league quota of 12.

hibsbollah
08-03-2012, 09:31 AM
Posted on another thread but I think it is more appropriate here:

I believe there has to be a certain amount of natural justice in a Newco Rangers starting again at the foot of Div3. They would bring good crowds to games by comparison to other teams. Consequently, as they progressed up through leagues 3, 2, and 1, they would leave behind a financial benefit to each of the SFL clubs. This in itself would ensure that Rangers go some way to redressing the balance for a Scottish football system that they have been cheating for years.

In the meantime the SPL would be a fairer and more competitive league which in turn might generate substantial interest from walk-up fans. I am not convinced that the TV companies would abandon that scenario although they may want to renegotiate some.

I see this being a fair and acceptable form of “punishment” that has the potential to leave a genuine legacy the entire length of the professional game in this country. The Rangers that emerged from the process might even be due some plaudits. Perhaps that is pushing the boundaries a little too far.

Good sensible post, agree completely. I still hope they collapse in a massive and messy wreckage though.

blackpoolhibs
08-03-2012, 09:35 AM
With Ross getting promoted to the spl, that would free up an sfl slot so rangers newco could apply for the slot along with any other highland/junior side. And the sfl would snap their hands off!!!

Exactly, its just another hun loving journalist spouting scare stories to frighten folk. I dont understand why these journalists are not concentrating on the real story coming out of this, and thats a bigoted club, who would be quite happy to shaft every tax payer, and numerous clubs in their quest for football dominance in our country, while being quite happy to jump ship to the EPL at the drop of a hat?

And none are saying just how much a shot in the arm it would be for every club in the lower leagues to play them at least twice a season, while they made their way back to the SPL?

How often do we hear just how great it is for the minnows to draw one of the old firm at home or indeed away in the cup.

Imagine just how lucrative this would be for every team in the 3rd division up to the 1st?

I'd be quite happy fo forfeit the delights of having them visit easter road twice a season, for the benefit of the whole of Scottish football.

JeMeSouviens
08-03-2012, 09:45 AM
It's absolute drivel based on his naive interpretation of Neil Doncaster's remarks on Radio Scotland the other night. There is no direct route into the SFL in the sense that there is for a relegated SPL team. However, if the Hun go bust then there's a space in the league. If it's not in the SPL then it's in the SFL and they would invite applications for a new member to join in Div3. PhoenixHuns could apply with anybody else (Spartans, Gala etc) to get that space.

The propaganda machine is in full swing but nobody should be in any doubt that if the current Rangers entity is liquidated, then there is absolutely no legal connection between old Huns and a new Phoenix Huns. If they are allowed straight into the SPL, it's a blatant bending of the rules and would prove once and for all that Scottish football is corrupt beyond redemption.

Like many others have said, if that happens, I'm out.

truehibernian
08-03-2012, 09:45 AM
I would ignore Chick and perhaps concentrate more on info wee Jim Spence got from an insider in the SPL.......an off the record statement that regardless of what happens, they would no doubt make moves to have Rangers reinstated.

Transparency, integrity, honesty, fair play, 'for the good of the game' - sadly the SFA and SPL have none of these attributes if that is to be the case. Rangers should not be treated differently - this notion that they are 'part of the fabric' of Scottish society sicken me to the core - they are a Scottish football club who are known all over the world yes. But in the last two decades they have been a large part in the disintegration of so called 'Scottish society' what with bigotry, hatred, riots and anti-social behaviour (on and off the field of play).

Hibernian, Heart of Midlothian, Dundee, Queen's Park, Brechin City......all can lay rightful claim and take a place at this 'part of the fabric of Scottish football' table. Each has their history, their following, their past and future. Why are Rangers being treated so differently in all this ? Jesus, Woolworths had a place in 'British society' but no one bailed in to help them - Rangers are a business, a busted flush of a business and should be left in their own mire. For me it will be for the good of the game if the worst happens. Let them reapply, but they should do it from the lower leagues up.

And Mr Doncaster - could you, for the fans, break down this mystical £20 million pounds figure you so regularly quote when being asked about the cost of league expansion ? Into individual chunks please and be quite empirical about it......I think that is a load of nonsense personally. It might cost your colleagues a few jollies, a few large salaries, and have many of you joining the dole queue - is that the real reason my friend ?

League of 14 please, play-off's at end of season, an SPL2, and regionalise the lower leagues for fans to travel and support easier. Reintroduce the Reserve League, have each SPL side having to field at least 3 U21's in their starting line up for each game they play - away with the League Cup, and again reintroduce a Euro place for the Scottish Cup (and don't seed teams making SPL clubs go into the first round pots -no byes), and summer football (given our clubs now have to participate in Euro comps in qualifying rounds), entry into all SPL grounds for those under 12 free with adult, those under 16 £5 (or less than a trip to the cinema).

WindyMiller
08-03-2012, 09:53 AM
Exactly, its just another hun loving journalist spouting scare stories to frighten folk. I dont understand why these journalists are not concentrating on the real story coming out of this, and thats a bigoted club, who would be quite happy to shaft every tax payer, and numerous clubs in their quest for football dominance in our country, while being quite happy to jump ship to the EPL at the drop of a hat?

And none are saying just how much a shot in the arm it would be for every club in the lower leagues to play them at least twice a season, while they made their way back to the SPL?

How often do we hear just how great it is for the minnows to draw one of the old firm at home or indeed away in the cup.

Imagine just how lucrative this would be for every team in the 3rd division up to the 1st?

I'd be quite happy fo forfeit the delights of having them visit easter road twice a season, for the benefit of the whole of Scottish football.


:agree:

Leithenhibby
08-03-2012, 09:58 AM
Posted on another thread but I think it is more appropriate here:

I believe there has to be a certain amount of natural justice in a Newco Rangers starting again at the foot of Div3. They would bring good crowds to games by comparison to other teams. Consequently, as they progressed up through leagues 3, 2, and 1, they would leave behind a financial benefit to each of the SFL clubs. This in itself would ensure that Rangers go some way to redressing the balance for a Scottish football system that they have been cheating for years.

In the meantime the SPL would be a fairer and more competitive league which in turn might generate substantial interest from walk-up fans. I am not convinced that the TV companies would abandon that scenario although they may want to renegotiate some.

I see this being a fair and acceptable form of “punishment” that has the potential to leave a genuine legacy the entire length of the professional game in this country. The Rangers that emerged from the process might even be due some plaudits. Perhaps that is pushing the boundaries a little too far.

Top Post :agree:

This is pretty much how I see it, and pretty much how it should be. If I'm honest I can't see this happening as many of us know from the past decades of supporting the Scottish game.

I fear that there will be some plan that will allow RFC to come back into the SPL, and If, that is allowed to happen them my days at Scottish grounds are over. Very sad, but I can't see how our game can come out of this with any credibility whats-so-ever. Yes, cutting off my nose to spite my face. I have always believed in fairness in justice and life, but should they (Huns) remain in the SPL then it's just WRONG..........

Bighoose
08-03-2012, 10:08 AM
Just to play devils advocate for a minute.

What would be preferable?, NewCo Huns starting in Div3 or NewCo Huns back in SPL but with no TV money for 5 years and at least a 10-20 points deduction per season for those 5 years also.

Personally if they disappeared completely, never to come back in any form would be my option.

Steve20
08-03-2012, 10:10 AM
Personally if they disappeared completely, never to come back in any form would be my option.

I don't agree at all. I find it hard to understand why any football supporter would want other supporters to lose their club.

Part/Time Supporter
08-03-2012, 10:10 AM
http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/scotland/17295379

He basically says the only way any new "ashes" Rangers club can get back into Scottish football is by getting revoted into the SPL. They cannot join the SFL in div 3 so if the SPL won't have them back then they can't come back to Scottish football.

What I don't understand is, if Rangers go bust why can't the SPL promote the first division runners up or have no relegation, then the divisions below do some shuffling to create a space in the third division. This space is then put out for clubs to apply for and why could any new Rangers club (bearing in mind it is a completely new club) apply for this space along with the likes of Spartans, Gala Fairydean, Preston Athletic, Whitehill Welfare and the assorted Highland league teams who usually come forward? Could anyone not start a club and providing they can prove certain criteria (stadium to use, funds for players etc) apply for a place in the league should one come available.

I would be very dissappointed if Rangers just get to come back into the SPL as if nothing has happened, points deductions or no points deductions. This is not a strong enough message to send out.

PS - maybe I have missed some but is this not wee Chicko's first blog since the administration was announced? Funny how, if it is his first blog, it is a relatively positive piece for Rangers in that it basically says that they have an SPL future in some shape or form no matter what.

Chick is talking complete bollocks.

If Rangers go bust and the SPL refuse to allow the SPL share transfer to SPL newco, then there is a vacancy in the SPL. At the end of the season there would be no relegation from the SPL and the first division winner would be promoted as normal, giving 12 teams in the SPL.

This would then leave the SFL with 29 teams. To give a round number of 30 teams, the SFL would hold an election for a new member to enter the third division. Rangers newco would be allowed to apply for that vacancy.

blackpoolhibs
08-03-2012, 10:14 AM
I don't agree at all. I find it hard to understand why any football supporter would want other supporters to lose their club.

WTF you on about, this is the huns we are talking about here?

The most vile club in the world, with the most vile supporters in the world.

The country, nay the world would be a much better place without this particular football club.

Steve20
08-03-2012, 10:17 AM
WTF you on about, this is the huns we are talking about here?

The most vile club in the world, with the most vile supporters in the world.

The country, nay the world would be a much better place without this particular football club.

No, WTF are YOU on about. I have close family and friends who are Rangers supporters and follow them home and away so I would hate them to lose the club that they support.

blackpoolhibs
08-03-2012, 10:19 AM
No, WTF are YOU on about. I have close family and friends who are Rangers supporters and follow them home and away so I would hate them to lose the club that they support.

I feel for you.

Steve20
08-03-2012, 10:20 AM
I feel for you.

Why?

Kojock
08-03-2012, 10:21 AM
Make no mistake about it Rangers will be in the SPL for numerous years to come because football is all about money.

Rangers will easily be voted in by the present SPL clubs as the whole TV deal depends on the OF being in the SPL. No Rangers = No TV deal. Clubs would then stand to lose £500,000 per year. As much as it pains me to say it a lot of SPL clubs would not survive without the TV money. Its all about self preservation and that is why Club Chairmen will re-elect Rangers.

If that were to happen we need to bring them in on our terms ensuring that the money is divided more equally across the board.

Personally I would like to see

Rangers starting minus 10 points per season for 5 years.
Rangers must pay an annual dividend of say 5 million split equally amongst the other SPL clubs.
No European place for them for 5 years
Equal share of all TV money for all SPL clubs
A share of home gate money goes to away team
Expenditure cannot exceed income

blackpoolhibs
08-03-2012, 10:22 AM
Why?

It must be hard having hun friends?

CropleyWasGod
08-03-2012, 10:23 AM
No, WTF are YOU on about. I have close family and friends who are Rangers supporters and follow them home and away so I would hate them to lose the club that they support.

This is the downside of it all for me. Although it's easy for us to generalise and stereotype, there are decent supporters out there who follow RFC for the "right" reasons.

Captain Trips
08-03-2012, 10:23 AM
Quote from Chic Young

"Motherwell can prepare themselves for the Champions' League qualifiers, that's for sure. If, that is, they can keep ahead of the chasing pack in the Scottish Premier League"

So are these the terrible times ahead for at least a few seasons if they are punished as they should? Clubs like Motherwell/Hearts/Dundee Utd and hopefully us with the chance be it very slim but the chance to make more money than we could hope for if we got through?

One of the main positives that is just brushed past.

Stand up kick them out and lets move on, lets us not allow Rangers back into our league.

I 100% believe we can survive without them so lets see if it is true lets see if the powers at be have the bottle to do the right thing, the right thing they would be doing to every other club out with OF.

Steve20
08-03-2012, 10:24 AM
It must be hard having hun friends?

Not really. I have friends of alot of teams, including Rangers, Celtic and Hearts. My dad and my brother are also season ticket holders at Ibrox.

No need to feel sorry for me about it.

blackpoolhibs
08-03-2012, 10:28 AM
This is the downside of it all for me. Although it's easy for us to generalise and stereotype, there are decent supporters out there who follow RFC for the "right" reasons.

I disagree, they brush the problems under the carpet, and when things go wrong as they are now, the first game against Killie was a bigotfest with the WHOLE ground singing the bigoted songs. They revert to type at the drop of a hat.

The country would be much better off without the team and its supporters.

IWasThere2016
08-03-2012, 10:28 AM
The new Rangers will just have to do an Airdrie United.

The other SPL clubs should take the opportunity to change the face of Scottish football for ever.

:agree: and this must be seized!


Going on the tone of Rod Petrie's recent comments, he won't be for making it easy for them to slime their way back in.

Hopefully other clubs top men think the same.

I think you can add Stephen Thompson in the "no" camp if there is a vote.

IWasThere2016
08-03-2012, 10:29 AM
Typical Weegie denial .. GTF Rangers! :agree:

Andy74
08-03-2012, 10:32 AM
Typical Weegie denial .. GTF Rangers! :agree:

Agree. So frustrating though that no-one in the media has looked past the basic argument that cash will be lost. Aye, but we get virtually none of it and we can't really do that much with the stuff we have in terms of winning stuff.

No one has spent any time looking at the potential increase in crowds if the likes of the teams mentioned were competing for actual prixes each year.

johnrebus
08-03-2012, 10:34 AM
Not really. I have friends of alot of teams, including Rangers, Celtic and Hearts. My dad and my brother are also season ticket holders at Ibrox.

No need to feel sorry for me about it.


The law of averages says there has to be some decent Rangers fans on the planet, so I'll assume your close family members fall in to this category.

However, I have obviously been pretty unlucky in life and have moved in the wrong circles, because I struggle to think of any Rangers fans who could be termed, 'normal fitbaw fans'.

Glory hunters at best, catholic hating bigots the rest.

No offense intended. Just my experience.


:cb

Kojock
08-03-2012, 10:35 AM
As I have posted on another thread.

IMHO Rangers will be in the SPL for numerous years to come because football is all about money.

Rangers will easily be voted in by the present SPL clubs as the whole TV deal depends on the OF being in the SPL. No Rangers = No TV deal. Clubs would then stand to lose £500,000 per year. As much as it pains me to say it a lot of SPL clubs would not survive without the TV money. Its all about self preservation and that is why Club Chairmen will re-elect Rangers.

Our own Rodney boy will vote for the re-instatment of them, :wink: but will ensure that there will be big changes and they will only be brought in on our terms ensuring that the money is divided more equally across the board.

Personally I would like to see

Rangers starting minus 10 points per season for 5 years.
Rangers must pay an annual dividend of say 5 million split equally amongst the other SPL clubs.
No European place for them for 5 years
Equal share of all TV money for all SPL clubs
A share of home gate money goes to away team
Expenditure cannot exceed income

Steve20
08-03-2012, 10:37 AM
The law of averages says there has to be some decent Rangers fans on the planet, so I'll assume your close family members fall in to this category.

However, I have obviously been pretty unlucky in life and have moved in the wrong circles, because I struggle to think of any Rangers fans who could be termed, 'normal fitbaw fans'.

Glory hunters at best, catholic hating bigots the rest.

No offense intended. Just my experience.


:cb

Fair enough, maybe you have been unlucky or I've just been lucky. The majority of Rangers fans I've met have been normal perfectly well behaved football fans.

Yes, I have met some Rangers fans who behave like morons. Just like I've met some Hibs/Hearts/Aberdeen fans who do the same.

JoJo_07
08-03-2012, 10:38 AM
According to the SPL rule book (http://www.scotprem.com/content/mediaassets/doc/SPL%20Rules%20as%20at%2019-Dec-11%20(CURRENT).pdf) they have to be members of the SFA to be members of the SPL. According to the SFA if they become insolvent membership will be terminated/suspended see page 33 (SFA Handbook) (http://www.scottishfa.co.uk/resources/documents/SFAPublications/ScottishFApublications2011-12/Scottish%20FA%20Handbook.pdf). So surely the Newcos first port of call on reforming is with the SFA. I would imagine the SFL are the same and that even to get into the SFL they need membership of the SFA.

Captain Trips
08-03-2012, 10:39 AM
As I have posted on another thread.

IMHO Rangers will be in the SPL for numerous years to come because football is all about money.

Rangers will easily be voted in by the present SPL clubs as the whole TV deal depends on the OF being in the SPL. No Rangers = No TV deal. Clubs would then stand to lose £500,000 per year. As much as it pains me to say it a lot of SPL clubs would not survive without the TV money. Its all about self preservation and that is why Club Chairmen will re-elect Rangers.

Our own Rodney boy will vote for the re-instatment of them, :wink: but will ensure that they will be big changes and they will only be brought in on our terms ensuring that the money is divided more equally across the board.

Personally I would like to see

Rangers starting minus 10 points per season for 5 years.
Rangers must pay an annual dividend of say 5 million split equally amongst the other SPL clubs.
No European place for them for 5 years
Equal share of all TV money for all SPL clubs
A share of home gate money goes to away team
Expenditure cannot exceed income

If Rangers are not in SPL I think a new deal would actually be agreed I still think there would be interest in the league.

Andy74
08-03-2012, 10:40 AM
If Rangers are not in SPL I think a new deal would actually be agreed I still think there would be interest in the league.

And more people might actually turn up to watch their own team playing in real competitive games?

Kojock
08-03-2012, 10:41 AM
If Rangers are not in SPL I think a new deal would actually be agreed I still think there would be interest in the league.

We will only move from a Duopoly to a Monopoly, because Celtic will still have the lions share of the income.

Kojock
08-03-2012, 10:43 AM
And more people might actually turn up to watch their own team playing in real competitive games?

So instead of fighting for 3rd as just now all the other clubs will be competing for 2nd. Cant see how that would get more bums on seats.

Captain Trips
08-03-2012, 10:44 AM
We will only move from a Duopoly to a Monopoly, because Celtic will still have the lions share of the income.

That may or may not be case but it is better to finish 2nd than 3rd, in time the SPL would be good, if Rangers start in 3rd it would be business as usual after a few years but I have no doubts not as much money would be lost as made out, there has been not 1p in what possible money would be gained discussed at the higher level for clubs just what we lose.

sambajustice
08-03-2012, 10:44 AM
If Rangers get liquidated and put straight back into the SPL (two big if's), I, like many others have stated on this board, will be through with Scottish football completely.

Its almost a catch 22, clubs cant survive without the money from the huns but while they are here none of the other clubs can overtake them because they have too much money.

Let them drop to Div 3 and work their way back up. If they do that then fair play, no arguments, but if they get liquidated and re-admitted straight away then thats it, it will be a complete farce!

No-one needs them to survive, cloth is cut accordingly and we just get on with it. Stuff the TV money and stuff the 1 or 2 extra big crowds per season.

Andy74
08-03-2012, 10:46 AM
We will only move from a Duopoly to a Monopoly, because Celtic will still have the lions share of the income.

A start thogh eh? The alternative is just what we have now.

Kojock
08-03-2012, 10:49 AM
Its almost a catch 22, clubs cant survive without the money from the huns but while they are here none of the other clubs can overtake them because they have too much money.

That statement says it all for me it IS a catch 22. That is why we have to ensure that if re-instated they come back on our terms which ensures the money is divided equally and not the case just now where the rich get richer.

Celtic would have to toe the line as well becuase we would get rid of the 11-1 voting system which ensured that Rantic gained the lions share of the cash.

Captain Trips
08-03-2012, 10:49 AM
So instead of fighting for 3rd as just now all the other clubs will be competing for 2nd. Cant see how that would get more bums on seats.

It is though more likely to get bums on seats than fighting for 3rd, and if Celtic are having an off time it might be fighting for more.

Kojock
08-03-2012, 10:52 AM
The alternative is just what we have now.

No its not, the alternative is they come back in on OUR terms, whereby every club gets an equal share of the cash. That would make the league more even and a lot more competative.

Captain Trips
08-03-2012, 10:55 AM
No its not, the alternative is they come back in on OUR terms, whereby every club gets an equal share of the cash. That would make the league more even and a lot more competative.

We can do that after they come back up after their 3 promotions, **** them for a few years and let somebody else have a crack at it.

Newry Hibs
08-03-2012, 10:56 AM
The new Rangers will just have to do an Airdrie United.

The other SPL clubs should take the opportunity to change the face of Scottish football for ever.

Presumably there is a club willing to die to save them? Or one in such financial trouble they are just about to go bust? I can't remember anything about the Airdrie Utd takeover, but were Clydebank just about to fold anyway? If a club is in such dire atraits, maybe a visit or 2 from New Huns next season might see them through.

Brebners Bookie
08-03-2012, 10:57 AM
:agree: and this must be seized!



I think you can add Stephen Thompson in the "no" camp if there is a vote.


If so his manager would be none too happy, going by his comments the other night.

The only way for Scottish football to deal with a rangers liquidation is for them to start in Div 3 (which is clearly an option chick, despite what you would have us believe), Give every SFL club a boost in their 3 seasons in the lower leagues, and turn the SPL into a league where 5/6 clubs will see Champs league football as a real possibility.

It will also force the SPL clubs to revert back to the fans instead of TV money.

I don't doubt this will cause a dip in income and on field quality, but will also re-structure the game for the better.

I also have no doubt that the powers that be will do everything in their power to avoid this situation.:rolleyes:

I can't believe im saying this but i wish we had more men like Steven Pressley in charge of our game.

speedy_gonzales
08-03-2012, 10:57 AM
So instead of fighting for 3rd as just now all the other clubs will be competing for 2nd. Cant see how that would get more bums on seats.

Maybe I'm being a bit too simplistic, but as it stands both Rangers and Celtic HAVE to win the league/cups each season. Due to the unfair agreements and fan base they can pay a higher wage that attracts, allegedly, a higher calibre of player.
These better teams in turn will generally beat all clubs around them and the Old Firm games decide titles(off course they don't win all games and cups don't always go their way).
This disparity is what gives Celtic/Rangers their average 20 point lead on the 'best of the rest' by the end of the season, a top 6 team will play the OF 8 times, the OF will probably get around 20pts out this.

Now, with no Rangers, the points advantage of the remaining top team will be cut to 10, assuming it's Celtic, couple that with the drop in wages they will expected/afforded to pay to win the same titles, then competition is back, ergo more bums on seats!!

Kojock
08-03-2012, 11:00 AM
We can do that after they come back up after their 3 promotions, **** them for a few years and let somebody else have a crack at it.

No we cant, in three years time we will be back to where we are just now with a Duopoly as the rules will not have changed. Lets seize this opportunity now and change the rules so that all SPL clubs get an equal share.

TBH I was like the majority on here, "Let them burn and die" but the more I have discussed it with people I see it as our one and only chance to change Scottish football for the better.

Kojock
08-03-2012, 11:08 AM
Maybe I'm being a bit too simplisitc, but as it stands both Rangers and Celtic HAVE to win the league/cups each season. Due to the unfair agreements and fan base they can pay a higher wage that attracts, allegedly, a higher callibre of player.


Exactly, Rantic get the lions share of the money so they will always be stronger than other teams.

This is why we have to do something NOW.

Get back to the time where gate money was split 50/50 (after costs)
Split all the TV money equally amongst all SPL clubs.

If Rangers dont agree then tough they dont get in. Celtic can jump up and down all they want but they will have to agree as well as they will be heavily out voted.

Captain Trips
08-03-2012, 11:13 AM
No we cant, in three years time we will be back to where we are just now with a Duopoly as the rules will not have changed. Lets seize this opportunity now and change the rules so that all SPL clubs get an equal share.

TBH I was like the majority on here, "Let them burn and die" but the more I have discussed it with people I see it as our one and only chance to change Scottish football for the better.

How? Rangers will have nothing to do with any deals agreed as they are not in SPL once they get back and lets say Sky want back in if not still here any future deal will be based on the new terms we all have and new league setup also.

So are you saying we cannot change the SPL rules if Rangers are not in it?, we can only change them if we let them right back in?

I agree with all the changes you suggest I do not see why they still cannot be done with the team that gets promoted into SPL from Div 1.

Squealing pig
08-03-2012, 11:17 AM
No, WTF are YOU on about. I have close family and friends who are Rangers supporters and follow them home and away so I would hate them to lose the club that they support.

My full family except ma oldman all rangers and I couldn't care less if there team when bye bye, just what they deserve for years of cheating and stealing our players when they couldn't afford them. So gtf rangers and we will happily play on

Kojock
08-03-2012, 11:21 AM
How? Rangers will have nothing to do with any deals agreed as they are not in SPL once they get back and lets say Sky want back in if not still here any future deal will be based on the new terms we all have and new league setup also.

So are you saying we cannot change the SPL rules if Rangers are not in it?, we can only change them if we let them right back in?

Clubs cannot survive without the current TV money. If the SPL agree a new TV deal without Rangers it will be at a vastly reduced rate.

Sergio sledge
08-03-2012, 11:23 AM
Make no mistake about it Rangers will be in the SPL for numerous years to come because football is all about money.

Rangers will easily be voted in by the present SPL clubs as the whole TV deal depends on the OF being in the SPL. No Rangers = No TV deal. Clubs would then stand to lose £500,000 per year. As much as it pains me to say it a lot of SPL clubs would not survive without the TV money. Its all about self preservation and that is why Club Chairmen will re-elect Rangers.

If that were to happen we need to bring them in on our terms ensuring that the money is divided more equally across the board.

Personally I would like to see

Rangers starting minus 10 points per season for 5 years.
Rangers must pay an annual dividend of say 5 million split equally amongst the other SPL clubs.
No European place for them for 5 years
Equal share of all TV money for all SPL clubs
A share of home gate money goes to away team
Expenditure cannot exceed income

I think you are right. Much as I would love to see them gone it's not going to happen and if they get re-admitted to the SFL, within 4 years they'd be back challenging with no real sanctions.

I'd like to add to your list above:
Rangers must pay £2m a year into an SFA Youth Development Fund for 5 years to allow for further investment in youth facilities and youth development in this country.
The 11-1 voting structure must be removed for all items that it is currently used on and altered to 9-3 or 8-4.
Annual accounts must be signed off by a certain date or a transfer embargo is placed on the club, like the system they have in the Championship and Football League.

Steve20
08-03-2012, 11:24 AM
My full family except ma oldman all rangers and I couldn't care less if there team when bye bye, just what they deserve for years of cheating and stealing our players when they couldn't afford them. So gtf rangers and we will happily play on

Each to their own. I just find it pathetic.

Captain Trips
08-03-2012, 11:24 AM
Clubs cannot survive without the current TV money. If the SPL agree a new TV deal without Rangers it will be at a vastly reduced rate.

I understand that but I think you made it appear from your other post if we relegate Rangers we will be back to same place as we are now in 3yrs with a duopoly suggesting we cannot make the changes you suggest 50/50 gate split etc etc if Rangers are relegated.

Andy74
08-03-2012, 11:27 AM
Clubs cannot survive without the current TV money. If the SPL agree a new TV deal without Rangers it will be at a vastly reduced rate.

They can. It would also be a different scenario altogether as we would be without one of the duopoly.

In what sense are we all 'surviving' just now? Not in any sort of competitive sense we are not.

If all the teams had reduced incomes what would we miss from the TV money? There would also be the possibility of increased crowds to watcha more competitive product.

IWasThere2016
08-03-2012, 11:28 AM
Agree. So frustrating though that no-one in the media has looked past the basic argument that cash will be lost. Aye, but we get virtually none of it and we can't really do that much with the stuff we have in terms of winning stuff.

No one has spent any time looking at the potential increase in crowds if the likes of the teams mentioned were competing for actual prixes each year.

:agree:


Posted on another thread but I think it is more appropriate here:

I believe there has to be a certain amount of natural justice in a Newco Rangers starting again at the foot of Div3. They would bring good crowds to games by comparison to other teams. Consequently, as they progressed up through leagues 3, 2, and 1, they would leave behind a financial benefit to each of the SFL clubs. This in itself would ensure that Rangers go some way to redressing the balance for a Scottish football system that they have been cheating for years.

In the meantime the SPL would be a fairer and more competitive league which in turn might generate substantial interest from walk-up fans. I am not convinced that the TV companies would abandon that scenario although they may want to renegotiate some.

I see this being a fair and acceptable form of “punishment” that has the potential to leave a genuine legacy the entire length of the professional game in this country. The Rangers that emerged from the process might even be due some plaudits. Perhaps that is pushing the boundaries a little too far.

:top marks

Captain Trips
08-03-2012, 11:36 AM
Posted on another thread but I think it is more appropriate here:

I believe there has to be a certain amount of natural justice in a Newco Rangers starting again at the foot of Div3. They would bring good crowds to games by comparison to other teams. Consequently, as they progressed up through leagues 3, 2, and 1, they would leave behind a financial benefit to each of the SFL clubs. This in itself would ensure that Rangers go some way to redressing the balance for a Scottish football system that they have been cheating for years.

In the meantime the SPL would be a fairer and more competitive league which in turn might generate substantial interest from walk-up fans. I am not convinced that the TV companies would abandon that scenario although they may want to renegotiate some.

I see this being a fair and acceptable form of “punishment” that has the potential to leave a genuine legacy the entire length of the professional game in this country. The Rangers that emerged from the process might even be due some plaudits. Perhaps that is pushing the boundaries a little too far.


Agree, while they are on their very own adventure we can get the SPL sorted into a far fairer system so on their return it is setup with everyones terms not just 1 or 2 clubs. Indeed we may lose money through TV but I like you do not think TV will run to the hills. A TV company might even be interested in televising Rangers matches along with SPL. I think having a chance at finishing 2nd for a few seasons will do us all the power of good knowing on Rangers return they are on our terms.

StevieC
08-03-2012, 11:36 AM
Rangers will easily be voted in by the present SPL clubs as the whole TV deal depends on the OF being in the SPL. No Rangers = No TV deal. Clubs would then stand to lose £500,000 per year. As much as it pains me to say it a lot of SPL clubs would not survive without the TV money. Its all about self preservation and that is why Club Chairmen will re-elect Rangers.

Yorkston certainly wont, it could be an SPL lifeline.
Rod sounds like he wouldn't.
I doubt Stephen Thompson would.
No love lost between Rangers and Aberdeen, and I reckon their support would go ballistic if Stewart Milne voted them back in.
Mad Vlad could go either way, I'm sure he'd like to see Rangers suffer but he may have one eye on the outcome in relation to his own problems (assuming he still cares).

That might only leave 6 or 7 clubs voting yes, and while that might be a majority (thanks to the OF orientated voting system) it wouldn't be enough.

JeMeSouviens
08-03-2012, 11:38 AM
Exactly, Rantic get the lions share of the money so they will always be stronger than other teams.

This is why we have to do something NOW.

Get back to the time where gate money was split 50/50 (after costs)
Split all the TV money equally amongst all SPL clubs.

If Rangers dont agree then tough they dont get in. Celtic can jump up and down all they want but they will have to agree as well as they will be heavily out voted.

What makes you so sure Hibs, Hearts, Aberdeen would sign up to handing over 50% of our larger gates to St Mirren, Dunfermline etc?

keep the faith
08-03-2012, 11:41 AM
They can. It would also be a different scenario altogether as we would be without one of the duopoly.

In what sense are we all 'surviving' just now? Not in any sort of competitive sense we are not.

If all the teams had reduced incomes what would we miss from the TV money? There would also be the possibility of increased crowds to watcha more competitive product.

Agree with this

Kato
08-03-2012, 11:45 AM
Presumably there is a club willing to die to save them? Or one in such financial trouble they are just about to go bust?


Cue HoMFC, Vlad flogs them to allow them to form RangersNewCo , carry on in the SPL, They flog Tynie with the proceeds going to form RainjursFC transfer "Warchest".

CropleyWasGod
08-03-2012, 11:47 AM
Cue HoMFC, Vlad flogs them to allow them to form RangersNewCo , carry on in the SPL, They flog Tynie with the proceeds going to form RainjursFC transfer "Warchest".

...bringing out my bucket of cold water again....sorry :greengrin

Tynie proceeds go across the North Sea, I'm afraid.

:cb

Kato
08-03-2012, 11:48 AM
...bringing out my bucket of cold water again....sorry :greengrin

Tynie proceeds go across the North Sea, I'm afraid.

:cb

Fair do's, wouldn't care either way. :wink:

CropleyWasGod
08-03-2012, 11:49 AM
Fair do's, wouldn't care either way. :wink:

.... is the correct response. :top marks

BarneyK
08-03-2012, 11:50 AM
Clubs cannot survive without the current TV money. If the SPL agree a new TV deal without Rangers it will be at a vastly reduced rate.

The thing that sticks in the craw of many is this apparant rule that Sky must have 4 oldfirm games per season. This means that a) Neither can be relegated, and b) neither can finish lower than sixth, unless the other does too. This - if true - is unacceptable and should be challenged all the way, otherwise the whole question of sporting integrity, as pushed by oor Rod recently, is compromised. To what lengths, do we think, would the SFA go to to ensure this never happened?

Kato
08-03-2012, 11:52 AM
To what lengths, do we think, would the SFA go to to ensure this never happened?

Any.

jgl07
08-03-2012, 11:52 AM
I think the situation with Grenta was different as they were relegated based on their league place so were an SFL club when they were demoted to the third division.

Gretna ceased to exist so were never admitted back into the SFL.

Their near neighbours Annan got the place in SFL3.

Gretna were formed as a new club and later joined the East of Scotland League.

killie-hibby
08-03-2012, 11:54 AM
I would ignore Chick and perhaps concentrate more on info wee Jim Spence got from an insider in the SPL.......an off the record statement that regardless of what happens, they would no doubt make moves to have Rangers reinstated.

Transparency, integrity, honesty, fair play, 'for the good of the game' - sadly the SFA and SPL have none of these attributes if that is to be the case. Rangers should not be treated differently - this notion that they are 'part of the fabric' of Scottish society sicken me to the core - they are a Scottish football club who are known all over the world yes. But in the last two decades they have been a large part in the disintegration of so called 'Scottish society' what with bigotry, hatred, riots and anti-social behaviour (on and off the field of play).

Hibernian, Heart of Midlothian, Dundee, Queen's Park, Brechin City......all can lay rightful claim and take a place at this 'part of the fabric of Scottish football' table. Each has their history, their following, their past and future. Why are Rangers being treated so differently in all this ? Jesus, Woolworths had a place in 'British society' but no one bailed in to help them - Rangers are a business, a busted flush of a business and should be left in their own mire. For me it will be for the good of the game if the worst happens. Let them reapply, but they should do it from the lower leagues up.

And Mr Doncaster - could you, for the fans, break down this mystical £20 million pounds figure you so regularly quote when being asked about the cost of league expansion ? Into individual chunks please and be quite empirical about it......I think that is a load of nonsense personally. It might cost your colleagues a few jollies, a few large salaries, and have many of you joining the dole queue - is that the real reason my friend ?

League of 14 please, play-off's at end of season, an SPL2, and regionalise the lower leagues for fans to travel and support easier. Reintroduce the Reserve League, have each SPL side having to field at least 3 U21's in their starting line up for each game they play - away with the League Cup, and again reintroduce a Euro place for the Scottish Cup (and don't seed teams making SPL clubs go into the first round pots -no byes), and summer football (given our clubs now have to participate in Euro comps in qualifying rounds), entry into all SPL grounds for those under 12 free with adult, those under 16 £5 (or less than a trip to the cinema).


Mr Doncasters £20 million is a mystery. By my calculations, an SPL free of Rangers would cost Hibs 2x3700x£28=£207200 less VAT (which Hibs always donate to Her Majesty, unlike her loyal Govan subjects) =£165,760 in gate money.Add on profit from pies,bovril and programmes at a generous £2.50p per head. Add £165760 gate money to £18500 pie,bovril and programme profits comes to £184260. Subtract from this sum the gate money for a substantial number of Hibs fans who stay away from OF matches at ER, and extra policing costs. Like Mr Doncaster I will make a guess. 500 absent fans at £28 per head (less 20%vat) and 100 extra policamen at £100 for the shift, totals £21200. Hibs net loss is now £163000. Excluding Celtic we are left with 10 SPL clubs. Considering Hibs loss of £163000 is the norm for the SPL I calculate a total SPL loss of £1,630,000 for the ten clubs.
Deduct £1,630,000 from Mr Doncasters £20,000,000 gives £18,730,000. Does the SPL get £18,730,000 from the TV companies. I doubt it. If Rangers do leave the SPL, more than likely the TV companies will want to renegotiate, they will not withdraw from Scottish football. We will get something, more than likely Hibs portion wont be much less than what we get currently. The redistribution will be fairer when ditching the 11 to 1 vote ratio.
Without Rangers the league will be more competitive with increased crowds for the aforementioned ten SPL clubs. If Hibs got an extra 500 supporters in at all of our 19 home games, at £22 per head less VAT we would have £167,200 plus pie,bovril and programme profits. Therefore my simplistic calculations show Hibs better off without Rangers by at least £4,200 a year.
I hope Mr Doncaster will respond to True Hibernians request for a breakdown on his sums. Like Young,Traynor et al he deals in emotions,not facts or reality. All they want to do is support and promote the Bigot Twins, nobody else matters.

Kato
08-03-2012, 11:55 AM
.... is the correct response. :top marks

It ain't gonna happen but I think I would wet myself laughing if our hapless Jumballo neighbours carried the (ultimate) can for Rainjurs indescretions. Vlad would sell as well.

If it happened it would be a merger, with the new team not called Heart of Midlothian and not playing in maroon or at Tynecastle.

Mercer takeover veteran people know what I'm talking about. :cb

WindyMiller
08-03-2012, 11:57 AM
Presumably there is a club willing to die to save them? Or one in such financial trouble they are just about to go bust? I can't remember anything about the Airdrie Utd takeover, but were Clydebank just about to fold anyway? If a club is in such dire atraits, maybe a visit or 2 from New Huns next season might see them through.

Clyde?
Hertz?

blackpoolhibs
08-03-2012, 11:58 AM
Its becoming clearer by the day, the media and certain high flyers in the Scottish game will allow Rangers to do anything they like, IGNORING THEIR CHEATING and want keep them in the SPL, rather than speak about what they have done wrong?

What is the point, if clubs actions are not even spoken about fairly? This Scottish football needs Rangers is pish, Scottish football needs every club, and every club to adhere to the rules, not just the rules they like, ignoring the others to the detriment of all.

Kato
08-03-2012, 12:09 PM
Its becoming clearer by the day, the media and certain high flyers in the Scottish game will allow Rangers to do anything they like, IGNORING THEIR CHEATING and want keep them in the SPL, rather than speak about what they have done wrong?


It's been clear from the start that this was route they would take imho.

BarneyK
08-03-2012, 12:26 PM
There's been a lot of talk on here and other sites about fans being finished with Scottish football if this goes through, and whilst I agree to an extent, there really has to be some kind of organised protest should it come to pass - across all the clubs. There are loads of St Mirren fans, Aberdeen fans, etc, who feel exactly the same way.

Kojock
08-03-2012, 12:31 PM
They can. It would also be a different scenario altogether as we would be without one of the duopoly.

Which then becomes a Monopoly with Celtic winning everything and the league being finished by Christmas

In what sense are we all 'surviving' just now? Not in any sort of competitive sense we are not.

Clubs are just keeping their heads above water, remove £500,000 from the budget will result in clubs making drastic cost cutting measure resulting in less money for wages which in turn will mean a poorer quality of player

If all the teams had reduced incomes what would we miss from the TV money? There would also be the possibility of increased crowds to watcha more competitive product.

Hibs fans are moaning about the product on the park and many are refusing to renew their season tickets as a result. Less money in the league will result in even worse players on the park and even lower crowds.

BarneyK
08-03-2012, 12:36 PM
Clubs are just keeping their heads above water, remove £500,000 from the budget will result in clubs making drastic cost cutting measure resulting in less money for wages which in turn will mean a poorer quality of player

There's the question. Would we rather retain the same quality of player if it means playing in a corrupt league where neither of the big 2 are allowed to finish outwith the top 6 or be relegated?

Kojock
08-03-2012, 12:36 PM
What makes you so sure Hibs, Hearts, Aberdeen would sign up to handing over 50% of our larger gates to St Mirren, Dunfermline etc?

Because over the course of a season we would make a lot more money than we hand over.

Plus it would help St Mirren, Dunfermline etc to become stronger and make the league a lot more competitive.

Kojock
08-03-2012, 12:43 PM
There's the question. Would we rather retain the same quality of player if it means playing in a corrupt league where neither of the big 2 are allowed to finish outwith the top 6 or be relegated?

Because of the uneven split of the money Rantic were never going to be relegated or finish out the top six such is there dominance.

Thats the whole point of my arguement, The duopoly started when the 11-1 voting system was introduced this enabled them to cream of all the profits leaving the rest to fight for the scraps. If the money is divided equally then everyone is in with a better chance.

I will reiterate what I said earlier. Less money means poorer players means less fans means less money means even poorer players and meaning even lower crowds. Its a vicious circle..

Kojock
08-03-2012, 12:46 PM
Yorkston certainly wont, it could be an SPL lifeline.
Rod sounds like he wouldn't.
I doubt Stephen Thompson would.
No love lost between Rangers and Aberdeen, and I reckon their support would go ballistic if Stewart Milne voted them back in.
Mad Vlad could go either way, I'm sure he'd like to see Rangers suffer but he may have one eye on the outcome in relation to his own problems (assuming he still cares).

That might only leave 6 or 7 clubs voting yes, and while that might be a majority (thanks to the OF orientated voting system) it wouldn't be enough.

Thats the thing no one knows how the SPL clubs will vote. They can make as much noise as they want just now but when it comes to the crunch they will fold like a deck of cards and go into self preservation mode.

Dont be so sure about Rod not voting them in.

Keith_M
08-03-2012, 12:49 PM
No, WTF are YOU on about. I have close family and friends who are Rangers supporters and follow them home and away so I would hate them to lose the club that they support.


I've thought about the "ordinary, un-bigoted fans" part of this and, FWIW, here's my view. I firmly believe that there are indeed vast numbers of Ranger fans that are not at all bgiotted and are reasonable people. However, they happily support a club that the vast majority of supporters are quite happy to engage in sectarian songs when they feel they'll get away with it. This has been the situation for the whole of my time on this planet.

If the Hibs support had a large percentage of people who held or gave vent to reprehensible attitudes to others based purely on their colour or religion, I would be done with that club. I'm happy to say that is not the case.

I suppose it's a case of "if you fly with the crows..."

Jim44
08-03-2012, 12:52 PM
Thats the thing no one knows how the SPL clubs will vote. They can make as much noise as they want just now but when it comes to the crunch they will fold like a deck of cards and go into self preservation mode.

Dont be so sure about Rod not voting them in.

:agree: I wonder, however, what every club's attitude would be if the majority of their supporters said they would seriously boycott all matches unless they voted for acceptable and appropriate sanctions against Rangers.

BarneyK
08-03-2012, 12:54 PM
Because of the uneven split of the money Rantic were never going to be relegated or finish out the top six such is there dominance.

Thats the whole point of my arguement, The duopoly started when the 11-1 voting system was introduced this enabled them to cream of all the profits leaving the rest to fight for the scraps. If the money is divided equally then everyone is in with a better chance.

I will reiterate what I said earlier. Less money means poorer players means less fans means less money means even poorer players and meaning even lower crowds. Its a vicious circle..

Don't disagree with anything you say - and agree to your other post about the other club chairmen folding - however, the Sky deal, if there is such a clause, is a scandal, and makes the SPL worthless as a competition. I know that neither of them is realistically ever going to finish below sixth, but the fact that they are not allowed to according to the rules...that's different.

If they are voted back in with all their money and spending power intact, there must be some kind of large scale protest across the grounds. Hibs fans sickened with the whole business and staying away from Easter Road only hurts Hibs.

Hibercelona
08-03-2012, 12:54 PM
I will reiterate what I said earlier. Less money means poorer players means less fans means less money means even poorer players and meaning even lower crowds. Its a vicious circle..

I would rather we played with poorer quality with something to aim for than have better quality with nothing to aim for.

The lack of quality would effect every team in the league (bar probably celtic), which means the league would still be competitive. It would just force teams to look more into their youth systems which is exactly what the SPL needs.

blackpoolhibs
08-03-2012, 12:55 PM
Because of the uneven split of the money Rantic were never going to be relegated or finish out the top six such is there dominance.

Thats the whole point of my arguement, The duopoly started when the 11-1 voting system was introduced this enabled them to cream of all the profits leaving the rest to fight for the scraps. If the money is divided equally then everyone is in with a better chance.

I will reiterate what I said earlier. Less money means poorer players means less fans means less money means even poorer players and meaning even lower crowds. Its a vicious circle..

Thats what is happening now though HSH, and one of those in the duopoly is cheating. It might be hard for everyone, but if we all have the good of the game at heart in Scotland, we need to take the hit, relegate the huns or whats left to the 3rd division.

Then get the game sorted from top to bottom, ensuring this situation never arrises again. An emphasis on youth, proper coaching and fairness across the board is imperative, if not then the ba's burst.

Kojock
08-03-2012, 01:00 PM
:agree: I wonder, however, what every club's attitude would be if the majority of their supporters said they would seriously boycott all matches unless they voted for acceptable and appropriate sanctions against Rangers.

Thats the crux of the matter what is acceptable and appropriate sanctions ??

Lago
08-03-2012, 01:02 PM
It must be hard having hun friends?

Get a grip, take a look at your self & grow up.

Lago
08-03-2012, 01:06 PM
The law of averages says there has to be some decent Rangers fans on the planet, so I'll assume your close family members fall in to this category.

However, I have obviously been pretty unlucky in life and have moved in the wrong circles, because I struggle to think of any Rangers fans who could be termed, 'normal fitbaw fans'.

Glory hunters at best, catholic hating bigots the rest.

No offense intended. Just my experience.


:cb
Time you widened your circles me thinks.

Kojock
08-03-2012, 01:07 PM
Thats what is happening now though HSH, and one of those in the duopoly is cheating. It might be hard for everyone, but if we all have the good of the game at heart in Scotland, we need to take the hit, relegate the huns or whats left to the 3rd division.

Then get the game sorted from top to bottom, ensuring this situation never arrises again. An emphasis on youth, proper coaching and fairness across the board is imperative, if not then the ba's burst.

I totally agree BH I want Rangers to burn and die and beg to get into the third division.

However trying to look at the situation from the club chairmen point of view IMHO they will re-instate them. That is why we must change the voting system and make sure all clubs get an even share of ALL monies.

blackpoolhibs
08-03-2012, 01:08 PM
Get a grip, take a look at your self & grow up.

Thats me told, just looked in the mirror really perked me up, i look like a Greek adonis.

Thanks for the advise.

The Sea-gull
08-03-2012, 01:08 PM
If Rangers do go out of business and a reformed Rangers try to get back in the league, it would be interesting to see how the vote goes. If fans of the clubs voted it would be a resounding no to new Rangers. Trouble is it is the boards of the clubs whose votes count and they will go with the best financial option which seems to be an SPL with some sort of Rangers in it.

Aberdeen - fans hate Rangers with a passion but they are moving to a new stadium, finances are not great and would want the big home gates and tv money Rangers bring. Would probably vote "Rangers" in.

Celtic - Despite all the bravado coming out of Celtic, they know they benefit from the old firm rivalry so will want this to continue to be safe in the knowledge that they could well be top dogs for some time to come. Would probably vote "Rangers" in.

Dundee United - I actually think that Steven Thompson seems a man of principle and even if it means going without cash, he would stick it right up them. Would probably not vote "Rangers" in.

Dunfermline - Afraid they need the money, only way they might not vote for them is if it preserves their SPL status by saying no.

Hearts - Who knows? They may be thinking about precedents being set should they find themselves in a similar situation.

Hibs - Petrie won't want to make it easy for them but will go with the option that the brings most cash to Hibs. Would probably vote "Rangers" in.

ICT - No idea really but probably don't have a massive turn over and wil rely on the cash generated from Rangers. Would probably vote "Rangers" in.

Killie - Again, really need the cash. Would probably vote "Rangers" in.

Motherwell - I may be wrong but think they are actually debt free and may think they can steel a few Rangers fans looking for something to do on a Saturday. They may feel empathy towards Rangers' plight though. Would probably vote "Rangers" in.

St Mirren - No idea either but may feel they can get a few extra fans going to their games in the long term.

St Johnstone - A well run club but I suspect given their small crowds rely heavily on the OF and tv deal for income. Would probably vote "Rangers" in.

I'd love the clubs to take this chance and use it as a way of shaking up the game but I have a feeling they will go with the short term buck and have Rangers back, albeit with allsorts of sanctions.

Phil MaGlass
08-03-2012, 01:10 PM
Yorkston certainly wont, it could be an SPL lifeline.
Rod sounds like he wouldn't.
I doubt Stephen Thompson would.
No love lost between Rangers and Aberdeen, and I reckon their support would go ballistic if Stewart Milne voted them back in.
Mad Vlad could go either way, I'm sure he'd like to see Rangers suffer but he may have one eye on the outcome in relation to his own problems (assuming he still cares).

That might only leave 6 or 7 clubs voting yes, and while that might be a majority (thanks to the OF orientated voting system) it wouldn't be enough.


It would be enough because as soon the the huns are dumped out of the league it means the 11-1 voting system no longer applies due to their only being 11 teams in the league, then it would have to b restructured.NO?

JeMeSouviens
08-03-2012, 01:11 PM
I will reiterate what I said earlier. Less money means poorer players means less fans means less money means even poorer players and meaning even lower crowds. Its a vicious circle..

Not necessarily true. There are many factors behind making a team attractive to its fans. Quality of player is one but likelihood of success, attractive style of football, competitive chance in fixtures are all there as well. The Hibs team of 04/05 probably cost less than the one we have now, certainly cost a lot less than the Hearts team of 04/05. Which would you rather go and watch?

If the pain is shared equally across the SPL I don't think crowds will drop (outside of the lack of Hun away support).

JeMeSouviens
08-03-2012, 01:12 PM
[/B]

It would be enough because as soon the the huns are dumped out of the league it means the 11-1 voting system no longer applies due to their only being 11 teams in the league, then it would have to b restructured.NO?

No. No relegation (Hibs or Dunfermline saved) plus Div 1 winner comes up as normal = 12 clubs.

Andy74
08-03-2012, 01:12 PM
[/B]

It would be enough because as soon the the huns are dumped out of the league it means the 11-1 voting system no longer applies due to their only being 11 teams in the league, then it would have to b restructured.NO?

Well no, the one due to drop out the bottom wouldn't.

Andy74
08-03-2012, 01:15 PM
Not necessarily true. There are many factors behind making a team attractive to its fans. Quality of player is one but likelihood of success, attractive style of football, competitive chance in fixtures are all there as well. The Hibs team of 04/05 probably cost less than the one we have now, certainly cost a lot less than the Hearts team of 04/05. Which would you rather go and watch?

If the pain is shared equally across the SPL I don't think crowds will drop (outside of the lack of Hun away support).

Agree with that. It's hardly the quality of player that is bringing us out now, it's down to those who will go and watch Hibs whatever. The rest will come back when we start to win, regardless of quaity of player, or are playing meaningful matches that could decide leagues or european spots. If games were Saturday afternoons that would help too.

Captain Trips
08-03-2012, 01:18 PM
Agree with that. It's hardly the quality of player that is bringing us out now, it's down to those who will go and watch Hibs whatever. The rest will come back when we start to win, regardless of quaity of player, or are playing meaningful matches that could decide leagues or european spots. If games were Saturday afternoons that would help too.

:agree:, if the standards drop all round as long as we are better than most then people will come if pushing for Euroupe, I reckon same for all the clubs.

Hibernia&Alba
08-03-2012, 01:19 PM
Is wee Chick writing his blog in the secure unit where he is currently on suicide watch?

Must be hard typing through the tears. His glorious Glasgow Rangers in this state :boo hoo:

twiceinathens
08-03-2012, 01:20 PM
While I hope that I am completely wrong I will be amazed if some miracle does not happen that will allow Rangers to defy the laws of economics that apply to mere mortals and they will escape from their current apparently inescapable fate. There will then be a campaign to assure that " this can never happen again" and some other "minor" outfit will be made an example of. (But unfortunately I don't mean the Jambos )

The Sea-gull
08-03-2012, 01:25 PM
If any form of "Rangers" is give the two fingers by the SPL following liquidation, could we not be in for a long and protracted summer?

Would there not be appeals to appeals courts, courts of session, European courts of law, courts of arbitration and the Queen and the Duke of Edinburgh himself?

Could all this not mean a delay the SPL season?

WhileTheChief..
08-03-2012, 01:29 PM
Whats all this talk about a fair distribution of cash about?? Are you seriously saying that all clubs should receive the same no matter where they finish in the league? That's madness. There has to be a reward for finishing higher up or whats the point?? Yes the top 2 get a bigger slice but in the scale of things it adds up to bugger all and wouldnt make any difference at all if the Old Firm recieved no TV money and it was split between the other 10 teams.

The glee with which a lot of people on here are revelling in Rangers demise is quite disturbing. Sure, Rangers should be punished and so far they have been. If they are liquidated then further sanctions will be imposed. Far too many conspiracy theories on here about the press, SFA, Sky etc going out of their way to help Rangers. They have no influence whatsover on the courts and the legal process which is where all of this will be played out.

There are plenty of decent Rangers fans out there who must be going through hell, just think back to Hands Off Hibs and remember how you felt then.

It's like some sort of competition on here to see who can hate Rangers the most.

Personally I like the games against the Old Firm and think our league would be devalued without them. I do however agree with Dave King in that a weakened, more humble Rangers emerging is probably the best outcome for the game.

WindyMiller
08-03-2012, 01:30 PM
Thats me told, just looked in the mirror really perked me up, i look like a Greek adonis.

Thanks for the advise.


http://scrapetv.com/News/News Pages/usa/images-5/fat-guy-on-beach.jpg

DH1875
08-03-2012, 01:37 PM
Just to play devils advocate for a minute. What would be preferable?, NewCo Huns starting in Div3 or NewCo Huns back in SPL but with no TV money for 5 years and at least a 10-20 points deduction per season for those 5 years also. If that were to happen then there would be every chance of them being relegated though. No bad thing but you'd be back to square one. Haven't read the blog as anything Chick has to say needs to be taken with a pinch of salt. He's the biggest Hun of the lot. There's NO reason why they couldn't scrap relegation this year and just promote the 1st division winners to take Rangers place. As for 50,000 fans, dont make me laugh. If anyone thinks they will be playing in front of crowds like that when their struggling to make top 6 and celtic are humping them, their crazy.

JeMeSouviens
08-03-2012, 01:49 PM
I do however agree with Dave King in that a weakened, more humble Rangers emerging is probably the best outcome for the game.

Humble? That's got to be the biggest laugh in all of this. The last thing these ****ers will ever be is humble.

The Mercer comparison is false. Worst case for us then would've meant a new Hibs being formed with no ground, no players, no money, no league to play in, nothing. Worst case for them is a new Huns with the same ground, same players, still by far the 2nd biggest budget in Scotland, the rules bent by a corrupt league to allow them to carry on in the top division and the same arrogant uebermenschen we-are-the-people entitlement complex pervading everything they do.

Kojock
08-03-2012, 01:51 PM
Not necessarily true. There are many factors behind making a team attractive to its fans. Quality of player is one but likelihood of success, attractive style of football, competitive chance in fixtures are all there as well. The Hibs team of 04/05 probably cost less than the one we have now, certainly cost a lot less than the Hearts team of 04/05. Which would you rather go and watch?

If the pain is shared equally across the SPL I don't think crowds will drop (outside of the lack of Hun away support).

How many threads on here have you seen that people wont go back to ER or will not renew their season tickets because of the poor fair on show at ER.

Likliehood of success - League - nil as Celtic will stroll it every year by a country mile. Cups same chance as just now. Okay there will be another place in Europe due to the demise of Rangers but what will that mean, at least three play off rounds before qualifing for the group stages. So basically most Scottish teams will be put out in the 1st or 2nd round of qualifiers to some unknown Albanian team.

Bad Martini
08-03-2012, 01:54 PM
Whats all this talk about a fair distribution of cash about?? Are you seriously saying that all clubs should receive the same no matter where they finish in the league? That's madness. There has to be a reward for finishing higher up or whats the point?? Yes the top 2 get a bigger slice but in the scale of things it adds up to bugger all and wouldnt make any difference at all if the Old Firm recieved no TV money and it was split between the other 10 teams.

The glee with which a lot of people on here are revelling in Rangers demise is quite disturbing. Sure, Rangers should be punished and so far they have been. If they are liquidated then further sanctions will be imposed. Far too many conspiracy theories on here about the press, SFA, Sky etc going out of their way to help Rangers. They have no influence whatsover on the courts and the legal process which is where all of this will be played out.

There are plenty of decent Rangers fans out there who must be going through hell, just think back to Hands Off Hibs and remember how you felt then.

It's like some sort of competition on here to see who can hate Rangers the most.

Personally I like the games against the Old Firm and think our league would be devalued without them. I do however agree with Dave King in that a weakened, more humble Rangers emerging is probably the best outcome for the game.

There are some decent rangers fans. I know some. Its not for their benefit many including me are deleriously happy at the thought of their imminent demise.

Ah dunno, call me sensitive but being spat at, called a dirty feinian ******* and having to listen to their songbook of little folk ditties whilst the masses excuse it ,might be a small part of why were all happy?

We might also be happy the institution famed for plundering all over the spl with their sellick pals, paying derisory sums and generally pissing people off, is getting theirs.

Thats before we get to the cheating and the old firm bias. And long before we get to the ***** large scale cheating by that mob with their dodgy second contracts and their dodging the tax.

****ing nae joy they got caught. Thats life. If ye break the rules and get caught and piss folk off along the way ,you canny expect too much sympathy.

Hope they go bust. Into the third division. Then stay there for a long time.

MON THE HIBS

JeMeSouviens
08-03-2012, 02:03 PM
How many threads on here have you seen that people wont go back to ER or will not renew their season tickets because of the poor fair on show at ER.

Likliehood of success - League - nil as Celtic will stroll it every year by a country mile. Cups same chance as just now. Okay there will be another place in Europe due to the demise of Rangers but what will that mean, at least three play off rounds before qualifing for the group stages. So basically most Scottish teams will be put out in the 1st or 2nd round of qualifiers to some unknown Albanian team.

Most people would count 2nd/3rd place as success for Hibs. The poor fair (sic) at ER is relative to the teams we are playing against. Anyway, us being ***** is not because we're not spending enough, all bar 3 or maybe 4 of the teams above us are spending less than we would have even without the Huns.

Plus, your plan to split the gates 50/50 might not necessarily see Hibs gain financially at all by the time we've given up half our own gates to the really poorly supported teams. (I haven't done the sums.)

And another thing! ... couldn't we agree rule changes to end the 11-1 thing with the Huns in Div3? In fact, wouldn't they be more likely to go through with the Huns in Div3?

greenginger
08-03-2012, 02:11 PM
If Rangers do go out of business and a reformed Rangers try to get back in the league, it would be interesting to see how the vote goes. If fans of the clubs voted it would be a resounding no to new Rangers. Trouble is it is the boards of the clubs whose votes count and they will go with the best financial option which seems to be an SPL with some sort of Rangers in it.

Aberdeen - fans hate Rangers with a passion but they are moving to a new stadium, finances are not great and would want the big home gates and tv money Rangers bring. Would probably vote "Rangers" in.

Celtic - Despite all the bravado coming out of Celtic, they know they benefit from the old firm rivalry so will want this to continue to be safe in the knowledge that they could well be top dogs for some time to come. Would probably vote "Rangers" in.

Dundee United - I actually think that Steven Thompson seems a man of principle and even if it means going without cash, he would stick it right up them. Would probably not vote "Rangers" in.

Dunfermline - Afraid they need the money, only way they might not vote for them is if it preserves their SPL status by saying no.

Hearts - Who knows? They may be thinking about precedents being set should they find themselves in a similar situation.

Hibs - Petrie won't want to make it easy for them but will go with the option that the brings most cash to Hibs. Would probably vote "Rangers" in.

ICT - No idea really but probably don't have a massive turn over and wil rely on the cash generated from Rangers. Would probably vote "Rangers" in.

Killie - Again, really need the cash. Would probably vote "Rangers" in.

Motherwell - I may be wrong but think they are actually debt free and may think they can steel a few Rangers fans looking for something to do on a Saturday. They may feel empathy towards Rangers' plight though. Would probably vote "Rangers" in.

St Mirren - No idea either but may feel they can get a few extra fans going to their games in the long term.

St Johnstone - A well run club but I suspect given their small crowds rely heavily on the OF and tv deal for income. Would probably vote "Rangers" in.

I'd love the clubs to take this chance and use it as a way of shaking up the game but I have a feeling they will go with the short term buck and have Rangers back, albeit with allsorts of sanctions.

Hibs ain't out of the woods yet. They should make a pact with Dunfermline now, that they both vote the Huns out no matter whose bottom.
As for Hearts, I can see Vlads pleasure at stiffing the Huns being stronger than any future concerns for Hearts. :greengrin

silverhibee
08-03-2012, 02:19 PM
Fair enough, maybe you have been unlucky or I've just been lucky. The majority of Rangers fans I've met have been normal perfectly well behaved football fans.

Yes, I have met some Rangers fans who behave like morons. Just like I've met some Hibs/Hearts/Aberdeen fans who do the same.


What like the majority of fans that descend on away grounds every other week, yep they are angels so they are, :rolleyes:., they really are well behaved football fans singing there bile, using the street as a toilet, causing grief.

Will be delighted to see them punted out of Scottish Football, they are a disease with no cure for them. Best to just put them down and put them out of there misery.

blackpoolhibs
08-03-2012, 02:31 PM
http://scrapetv.com/News/News Pages/usa/images-5/fat-guy-on-beach.jpg

:greengrin I have lost a bit of weight since then. :wink:

WindyMiller
08-03-2012, 02:38 PM
:greengrin I have lost a bit of weight since then. :wink:

Aye?



http://t1.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcSf6CknrcdS6lCMa6nYYC07CmgMdtIyJ hwN08YFbwVmYK_3MN8l

Phil MaGlass
08-03-2012, 02:49 PM
Humble? That's got to be the biggest laugh in all of this. The last thing these ****ers will ever be is humble.

The Mercer comparison is false. Worst case for us then would've meant a new Hibs being formed with no ground, no players, no money, no league to play in, nothing. Worst case for them is a new Huns with the same ground, same players, still by far the 2nd biggest budget in Scotland, the rules bent by a corrupt league to allow them to carry on in the top division and the same arrogant uebermenschen we-are-the-people entitlement complex pervading everything they do.

how true, **** em let them go under and start from the 3rd division, manky bigot b------s, if people think their attitudes will change or these vermin will become more humble you should be checking yourselves into Carstairs ya bams.:greengrin
the thing is they will become even more arrogant, yi cannae keep us doon we arra ****my people.King Billy blablabla, hun *******s.

GreenPJ
08-03-2012, 02:50 PM
Agree with that. It's hardly the quality of player that is bringing us out now, it's down to those who will go and watch Hibs whatever. The rest will come back when we start to win, regardless of quaity of player, or are playing meaningful matches that could decide leagues or european spots. If games were Saturday afternoons that would help too.

And there is the problem "if you build it, they will come". A lot of clubs are already struggling to service debt based on the level of income they already have. If they take a reduction in income (no matter if its only for a season or two) then they are in danger of going to the wall. We have already seen that current cashflow is critical for Dunfermline, Utd, Hearts and probably Killie too.

The existing debt problem needs to be resolved before we get any semblance of a sensible solution imho.

blackpoolhibs
08-03-2012, 02:50 PM
Aye?



http://t1.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcSf6CknrcdS6lCMa6nYYC07CmgMdtIyJ hwN08YFbwVmYK_3MN8l

Naw, my bodys ripped.

Phil MaGlass
08-03-2012, 02:51 PM
Hibs ain't out of the woods yet. They should make a pact with Dunfermline now, that they both vote the Huns out no matter whose bottom.
As for Hearts, I can see Vlads pleasure at stiffing the Huns being stronger than any future concerns for Hearts. :greengrin

so can I

blackpoolhibs
08-03-2012, 02:54 PM
Hibs ain't out of the woods yet. They should make a pact with Dunfermline now, that they both vote the Huns out no matter whose bottom.
As for Hearts, I can see Vlads pleasure at stiffing the Huns being stronger than any future concerns for Hearts. :greengrin

He'd have a great chance to stuff the mafia as he calls it, he wouldn't want to miss that opportunity.

Dashing Bob S
08-03-2012, 02:54 PM
Time you widened your circles me thinks.

I ought to as well, though I've certainly been trying.

Have travelled the world far and wide, worked in many different countries, and have met only about a handful of Huns who don't fall into the categories Rebus described. I notice that the very few I have liked have all been from Glasgow itself, and just see Rangers as their local team. Without exception, the ones from outside the city have been poisonous bigots (small west of Scotland towns) or glory hunters with little spine, personality or character (rest of Scotland), or, on several occasions, both.

Kato
08-03-2012, 03:02 PM
I notice that the very few I have liked have all been from Glasgow itself, and just see Rangers as their local team. Without exception, the ones from outside the city have been poisonous bigots (small west of Scotland towns) or glory hunters with little spine, personality or character (rest of Scotland), or, on several occasions, both.


Describes my experience as well.

blackpoolhibs
08-03-2012, 03:10 PM
I was in Benidorm last weekend, and met what seemed like a decent hun at the bar. We got talking about their situation, and the usual sheite about how the league needs them, and how it would probably fold without their fans.

He then went on to tell me straight faced how they have always had huge crowds, and how they were so much more loyal than Celtic and indeed the rest of the league.

He started to get a little hot under the collar when i asked him how many did he think would turn up if they'd not won the league in over 60 years, and only won 3 or 4 cups in the same time?

Then to finish it off, he then said he'd not swap a thing. He'd keep all those memories the over spending and thieving had given him. **** it was his reply, Rangers will never die.

StevieC
08-03-2012, 03:12 PM
That is why we must change the voting system and make sure all clubs get an even share of ALL monies.

If they are sensible they will refuse to vote on letting them back in until they have changed the voting set-up and the distribution of monies .. otherwise they'll continue to get shafted by the OF (or should that be "OF-1+1"?).

silverhibee
08-03-2012, 03:21 PM
I was in Benidorm last weekend, and met what seemed like a decent hun at the bar. We got talking about their situation, and the usual sheite about how the league needs them, and how it would probably fold without their fans.

He then went on to tell me straight faced how they have always had huge crowds, and how they were so much more loyal than Celtic and indeed the rest of the league.

He started to get a little hot under the collar when i asked him how many did he think would turn up if they'd not won the league in over 60 years, and only won 3 or 4 cups in the same time?

Then to finish it off, he then said he'd not swap a thing. He'd keep all those memories the over spending and thieving had given him. **** it was his reply, Rangers will never die.


Did the conversation go a bit like this. :greengrin http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=H8x_59EjZOs

blackpoolhibs
08-03-2012, 03:28 PM
Did the conversation go a bit like this. :greengrin http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=H8x_59EjZOs

I think that was him. :agree:

killie-hibby
08-03-2012, 04:08 PM
And there is the problem "if you build it, they will come". A lot of clubs are already struggling to service debt based on the level of income they already have. If they take a reduction in income (no matter if its only for a season or two) then they are in danger of going to the wall. We have already seen that current cashflow is critical for Dunfermline, Utd, Hearts and probably Killie too.

The existing debt problem needs to be resolved before we get any semblance of a sensible solution imho.




The solution is simple. Live within your means. Players will have to accept wage reductions. If they refuse do not renew their contracts, play the youngsters. If you're old enough at 19 to go to war then playing for Hibs or anybody else is a dawdle in comparison. I am sick to the back teeth hearing we cant survive without the OF;we cant survive without the television money. Yes we can. Initially there might be a drop in the standard of football. This would be compensated by a more competitive and exciting league. Crowds will increase. Where I live junior clubs get decent crowds, some clubs are paying players £200/£300 a week.The OF and TV are nowhere insight.
The dependance on TV and the OF is not working thats why Dunfermline,D.Utd and Kilmarnock are in financial difficulties. The SPL is broken,now is the time to mend it. All KO's at 3pm on Saturdays. Any broadcasting money must be evenly distributed. The top club gets the same as the bottom club.
Television and the 11 to 1 voting ratio, along with the media,s sycophantic worship of, and grovelling to the OF have ruined the SPL and Scottish league.
Television and the media have unwittingly contrived in demoralising and draining all hope of success from non OF clubs and their supporters.
We need now the,will and action to rid ourselves of TV and OF dependancy.We are suffocating and need to breath again!

WhileTheChief..
08-03-2012, 06:30 PM
There are some decent rangers fans. I know some. Its not for their benefit many including me are deleriously happy at the thought of their imminent demise.

Ah dunno, call me sensitive but being spat at, called a dirty feinian ******* and having to listen to their songbook of little folk ditties whilst the masses excuse it ,might be a small part of why were all happy?

We might also be happy the institution famed for plundering all over the spl with their sellick pals, paying derisory sums and generally pissing people off, is getting theirs.

Thats before we get to the cheating and the old firm bias. And long before we get to the ***** large scale cheating by that mob with their dodgy second contracts and their dodging the tax.

****ing nae joy they got caught. Thats life. If ye break the rules and get caught and piss folk off along the way ,you canny expect too much sympathy.

Hope they go bust. Into the third division. Then stay there for a long time.

MON THE HIBS

Hmm, when you put it like that, I concur :greengrin

green is good
08-03-2012, 06:31 PM
Make no mistake about it Rangers will be in the SPL for numerous years to come because football is all about money.

Rangers will easily be voted in by the present SPL clubs as the whole TV deal depends on the OF being in the SPL. No Rangers = No TV deal. Clubs would then stand to lose £500,000 per year. As much as it pains me to say it a lot of SPL clubs would not survive without the TV money. Its all about self preservation and that is why Club Chairmen will re-elect Rangers.

If that were to happen we need to bring them in on our terms ensuring that the money is divided more equally across the board.

Personally I would like to see

Rangers starting minus 10 points per season for 5 years.
Rangers must pay an annual dividend of say 5 million split equally amongst the other SPL clubs.
No European place for them for 5 years
Equal share of all TV money for all SPL clubs
A share of home gate money goes to away team
Expenditure cannot exceed income

Don't forget that Scottish football needs a STRONG Rangers :rolleyes:

The Sea-gull
09-03-2012, 03:01 PM
Maybe I have this wrong but does this extract from an article on today's bbc website not contradict the tone of Chick Young's blog from yesterday.

What would happen to the 'new' Rangers club?

They could independently apply to the SFL for admission to the Third Division, or they could be invited to apply in the way the most recent members, Annan Athletic, did.

Given that the SFL would now be short of a club they could potentially be accepted quickly. However, the vacant space would also attract applications from other clubs.

The SFL would then vote on which club to admit to the Third Division.

Here is Chick's blog:-

http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/scotland/17295379

The middle part of his blog seems to suggest that the SFL is not an option for any Rangers newco:-

"If Rangers ultimately explode - as opposed to the current slow burn - and liquidate then it will be down to the SPL board to decide whether they would accept a new company - say Rangers 2012 or Govan United - back into the fold. If they don't then there is nowhere to run. "

Yet today's article is suggest the new co could apply to the SFL should a place be up for grabs. Maybe I am misinterpreting Chick's article but it seems to be written in a way that is designed to make everyone believe that we have to stop shouting for Rangers to go down the divisions as it is not possible but it seems it is perfect feasible this could be allowed to happen if the SPL don't vote them back in.