Messi

[down-the-slope]

:not worth:not worth:not worth

thats all

[Mikeystewart]

The amazing thing is no one is surprised any more he is on a completely different planet! 24 years old and he only needs 9 more to be Barca's all time top goal scorer!!!

[beensaidbefore]

:not worth:not worth:not worth

thats all

saw it, amazing. 8th hat-trick.....this season! FFS...did i hear the guy correct?

[beensaidbefore]

The amazing thing is no one is surprised any more he is on a completely different planet! 24 years old and he only needs 9 more to be Barca's all time top goal scorer!!!


so what? they've hardly had good forwards before....

[HUTCHYHIBBY]

51 goals in 49 games this season!

[NAE NOOKIE]

Reminds you that for all the rubbish surrounding it that football is STILL the beautiful game. Thanks Mr messi :not worth

[Barney McGrew]

51 goals in 49 games this season!

146 goals in his last 150 appearances before tonight. Frightening.

[Mikeystewart]

so what? they've hardly had good forwards before....

was about to reply with the list of top strikers to play for them then realised you where taking the piss :top marks

and now its 8 lol

[HUTCHYHIBBY]

This game is getting silly!

[beensaidbefore]

146 goals in his last 150 appearances before tonight. Frightening.

10 in 7 CL games, against argubly the best club teams in the world. Glad im witnessing it first hand. never mind asking the olds about Pele, we can tell about Messi!

[Alex Trager]

And another. Best player. Ever. Fact

[Wotherspiniesta]

How come we never get a thread when Ronaldo scores a hat-trick?

[hibsbollah]

Anyone who doesnt accept Barca is the best side ever is a collosal idiot.


Discuss :greengrin

[beensaidbefore]

How come we never get a thread when Ronaldo scores a hat-trick?

cos hes a plonker and couldnt lace Messi's boots perhaps??

[Pretty Boy]

How come we never get a thread when Ronaldo scores a hat-trick?

Unfair as it may seem I think its because Ronaldo comes accross as a bit of a knob whereas Messi seems to be more of a team player and a 'nice guy'.

No idea if that's what both of them are actually like, just the way they seem imo.

[Hibs90]

That and Messi is simply better.Pleasure to watch him play football.

[NAE NOOKIE]

RE ... Last nights discussion with Rod Petrie et al



Perhaps the German model aint the one to follow :greengrin

[greenlex]

Too wee.

[Monts]

Ronaldo is an outstanding player, one of my favourites.

But he just doesnt produce the goods in the big games. Messi does. Consistently.

[blackpoolhibs]

How come we never get a thread when Ronaldo scores a hat-trick?

Because he does not score as many hat-tricks, maybe if he did we would?

I wouldn't go holding your breath though, the gulf in class between both players is huge, Ronaldo will never be able to do what Messi can, or has.

[Mikeystewart]

Unfair as it may seem I think its because Ronaldo comes accross as a bit of a knob whereas Messi seems to be more of a team player and a 'nice guy'.

No idea if that's what both of them are actually like, just the way they seem imo.

This is key :top marks

[blackpoolhibs]

This is key :top marks

That and being a considerably inferior footballer. :agree:

[Barney McGrew]

And that's why he gets the plaudits and not Ronaldo :greengrin

[SteveHFC]

:not worth:not worth:not worth

[CallumLaidlaw]

How come we never get a thread when Ronaldo scores a hat-trick?

Cos he has never scored 5 champions league goals in 1 game ;-)

[Hibs90]

What a finish from Messi!

[Mikeystewart]

Cos he has never scored 5 champions league goals in 1 game ;-)

your quick :top marks

need to think of some new superlatives

[Monts]

Its interesting that Ronaldo quite often gets stick for not being as good as Messi.

Theres no doubt that Ronaldo has phenomenal talent, but it seems to be disregarded far too easily simply because (possibly) the greatest ever player is playing at the same time.

Its a bit like Andy Murray. A brilliant player, but unlucky to be playing at the same time as not one but 3 all time greats.

[Wotherspiniesta]

Because he does not score as many hat-tricks, maybe if he did we would?

I wouldn't go holding your breath though, the gulf in class between both players is huge, Ronaldo will never be able to do what Messi can, or has.

Are you sure they haven't scored as many hat tricks as each other? It's probably a bit closer than you think.

We seem to get a thread on here everytime Messi scores a goal, never mind scores a hat-trick.

But thats ok, because he's not a "bit of a knob"

[HH81]

Messi 5 now.

:aok:

[Barney McGrew]

Messi does it in the big games as well as against the lower ranked teams. Ronaldo doesn't.

There's no doubting he's a top, top player as well though. He's just not as good as Messi :greengrin

[HH81]

Are you sure they haven't scored as many hat tricks as each other? It's probably a bit closer than you think.

We seem to get a thread on here everytime Messi scores a goal, never mind scores a hat-trick.

But thats ok, because he's not a "bit of a knob"

:boo hoo: Why is everyone talking about Messi and not the ex Manchester United player Ronaldo....

I'll tell you why..... Ronaldo is average compaired to Messi :agree:

[Wotherspiniesta]

Anyone who doesnt accept Barca is the best side ever is a collosal idiot.


Discuss :greengrin

Not even top of the league.

End of discussion.

http://www.unitednews.com.pk/en/images/news/30-03-2011/Ronaldo.jpg

[blackpoolhibs]

Are you sure they haven't scored as many hat tricks as each other? It's probably a bit closer than you think.

We seem to get a thread on here everytime Messi scores a goal, never mind scores a hat-trick.

But thats ok, because he's not a "bit of a knob"

We get threads on Messi because he's the best in the world right now. And probably on the way to being the best player this planet has ever seen. Each and every time he plays, he gives his all, no diving no strops no cheating, unlike Ronaldo who does all 3 in abundance.

[easty]

Are you sure they haven't scored as many hat tricks as each other? It's probably a bit closer than you think.

We seem to get a thread on here everytime Messi scores a goal, never mind scores a hat-trick.

But thats ok, because he's not a "bit of a knob"

time of the month?

[Hibs90]

Are you sure they haven't scored as many hat tricks as each other? It's probably a bit closer than you think.

We seem to get a thread on here everytime Messi scores a goal, never mind scores a hat-trick.

But thats ok, because he's not a "bit of a knob"

Ronaldo is quality no doubting that but nowhere near as good a player or person as Messi.

[Baldy Foghorn]

Exceptional talent, was watching him after final whistle and it looked as if he never broke sweat.

As an aside when they were 6-0 up, they missed a chance, and a couple of them looked genuinely gutted, quite awesome to watch them play.......

[The_Sauz]

Seen the thread title and thought Petrie was on a roll and we had him signed up for next season :grr:














































:na na:

[Hibs90]

Not even top of the league.

End of discussion.

http://www.unitednews.com.pk/en/images/news/30-03-2011/Ronaldo.jpg

http://1.bp.blogspot.com/_l2VT7bYUEaY/TSUPnJ6fyJI/AAAAAAAAQsQ/8XPZOLKDYjk/s1600/problem+%25282%2529.jpg

[blackpoolhibs]

Exceptional talent, was watching him after final whistle and it looked as if he never broke sweat.

As an aside when they were 6-0 up, they missed a chance, and a couple of them looked genuinely gutted, quite awesome to watch them play.......

:agree: I think we are witnessing the best player this planets ever seen. I saw Pele in the flesh, but he was finished when he played for New york cosmos against Los Angeles Aztecs, but i saw Maradonna in his pomp, and these two are supposed to be the best ever, and its one or the other who's best.

In my opinion Messi is better than Maradonna, and he's only 24. :not worth

[down-the-slope]

Human after all...Not a single header among goals :rolleyes:

[essexhibee]

Insane. I agree with the above imo he's better than ronaldo because he's scored in the big games. Always seems to pop up in el classico matches unlike ronaldo.

[Andy74]

Messi won't be the best player ever until he does something at international level.

[down-the-slope]

Just asked Mrs DTS if she fancies a trip to Barcelona - might invest my ST cash in that instead :greengrin It would be sad not to see him play in the flesh when its possible....

[Wembley67]

Dunno why folk are arguing....should be honoured that you are witnessing the best player in the world ever and in Ronaldo someone who runs him pretty damn close - love watching them both, as someone mentioned before if Ronaldo wasn't such a wee play acting nancy boy he would be running him even closer.

[HUTCHYHIBBY]

Are you sure they haven't scored as many hat tricks as each other? It's probably a bit closer than you think.

We seem to get a thread on here everytime Messi scores a goal, never mind scores a hat-trick.

But thats ok, because he's not a "bit of a knob"

I think it just further reflects peoples prejudices against Man Utd! ;-)

[Monts]

An apt program about to come on itv 4!

[blackpoolhibs]

I think it just further reflects peoples prejudices against Man Utd! ;-)

WTF has this to do with Man United?:confused:

[Andy74]

Dunno why folk are arguing....should be honoured that you are witnessing the best player in the world ever and in Ronaldo someone who runs him pretty damn close - love watching them both, as someone mentioned before if Ronaldo wasn't such a wee play acting nancy boy he would be running him even closer.

Yep. Ronaldo also a top class player. Different types of course. Ronaldo is a pure athlete and Messi just a natural ball player.

[down-the-slope]

I think it just further reflects peoples prejudices against Man Utd! ;-)

Is predudice when people kiss the badge and then bugger off to a bigger club as soon as they come calling :rolleyes:

[HUTCHYHIBBY]

I think it just further reflects peoples prejudices against Man Utd! ;-)

Oops! shouldve read the whole thread first!

[frazeHFC]

Messi is just unreal. :thumbsup: :not worth

And can't believe someone said Ronaldo is 'a bit of a knob'. :bitchy: Complete understatement. :greengrin

[Barney McGrew]

Messi won't be the best player ever until he does something at international level.

22 in 67 starts and another 20 assists isn't too shabby :wink:

[HUTCHYHIBBY]

WTF has this to do with Man United?:confused:

Calm down BH, see the wee wink at the end of the post!

A couple of the images posted by others will probably tell you why Wothers is after some Ronaldo threads tho!

[jdships]

Putting aside the Messi adoration society comments ( all deserved by the way ) anyone else think that Barca used two "wide men" to devastating effect tonight ?
There was always a man wide on both sides of the park and this stopped the German back four closing down the middle . If you replay/watch the game again every time the ball went wide Barca pushed three/four men down " channel one" :thumbsup:
Absolutely brilliant tactics

As a neutral this was IMO football entertainment at its best :top marks

[easty]

Messi won't be the best player ever until he does something at international level.

wrong.

[1two]

And I seen him at Hampden

[thekaratekid]

He'll have to do it in a World Cup at least once for him to surpass Maradona IMO

[frazeHFC]

And I seen him at Hampden

A lot of us have seen him at Murrayfield. :greengrin



I agree about International, i feel if he leads them to winning the WC, he will officially become THE best of all time.

[1two]

A lot of us have seen him at Murrayfield. :greengrin



I agree about International, i feel if he leads them to winning the WC, he will officially become THE best of all time.

:doh:

[ScottB]

Just sat watching the goals... Incredible. That long ball he runs on to, the control! One touch and it's glued to his feet, it's incredible. Wherever he gets the ball, he's just dangerous, doesn't matter where, how many defenders are around him, he can score or create a chance.

I'd quite possibly venture him as the best player who ever lived already, given the quality of opposition he regularly does it against. The scarier point is that he will likely get better over the next few years...

[Jonnyboy]

Messi won't be the best player ever until he does something at international level.

He's getting there Andy although disappointingly he only scored three in his last match for his country :wink:

[Sean1875]

Scary thing is hes probably only going to get better :dizzy:

[Wotherspiniesta]

Insane. I agree with the above imo he's better than ronaldo because he's scored in the big games. Always seems to pop up in el classico matches unlike ronaldo.

Hmmm...

In the last few El Classico's?

[Judas Iscariot]

Where's Falkirkhibee to add to the ex manure player *****fest?

[frazeHFC]

Hmmm...

In the last few El Classico's?

Give it up. :rolleyes:

[1two]

Hmmm...

In the last few El Classico's?

Look, lionel messi is the unquestionably the greatest player in the world.
He's possibly the greatest player ever.

Ronaldo is great player, but he's no messi.

End of

[essexhibee]

Hmmm...

In the last few El Classico's?

Seem to remember he had but if I'm wrong then I apologize....profoundly.

[Wotherspiniesta]

Give it up. :rolleyes:

It's just a general wondering. In the last few El Classico's Ronaldo's scored more goals.

Also, their strike rates are very similar, yet we never see a thread gushing over Ronaldo's scoring expolits. Or even Van Persie's for that matter.

[frazeHFC]

It's just a general wondering. In the last few El Classico's Ronaldo's scored more goals.

Also, their strike rates are very similar, yet we never see a thread gushing over Ronaldo's scoring expolits. Or even Van Persie's for that matter.

They score goals, but the way they do it, and their general skill, is not near Messi's level at all imo.

[Jonnyboy]

It's just a general wondering. In the last few El Classico's Ronaldo's scored more goals.

Also, their strike rates are very similar, yet we never see a thread gushing over Ronaldo's scoring expolits. Or even Van Persie's for that matter.

Maybe they just don't have as many admirers as Messi?

Anyway, you could always start such threads :wink:

[Monts]

It's just a general wondering. In the last few El Classico's Ronaldo's scored more goals.

Also, their strike rates are very similar, yet we never see a thread gushing over Ronaldo's scoring expolits. Or even Van Persie's for that matter.

Serious question, but who takes the penalties for real and barca?

[frazeHFC]

Serious question, but who takes the penalties for real and barca?

Is it not Xavi or Fabregas for Barca? Not too sure either.

[Wotherspiniesta]

Serious question, but who takes the penalties for real and barca?

Ronaldo and Messi.

[Killiehibbie]

It's just a general wondering. In the last few El Classico's Ronaldo's scored more goals.

Also, their strike rates are very similar, yet we never see a thread gushing over Ronaldo's scoring expolits. Or even Van Persie's for that matter.Maybe because Ronaldo's a snivelling jessie.

[--------]

146 goals in his last 150 appearances before tonight. Frightening.


That's the sort of record Puskas had - goal a game or near as makes no difference, in top-level comnpetitive matches.

The boy's a legend.

[frazeHFC]

That's the sort of record Puskas had - goal a game or near as makes no difference, in top-level comnpetitive matches.

The boy's a legend.


I just looked at Puskas record, unreal, but what i don't get is, he scored 84 goals in 85 games for Hungary, then played for Spain? Could you play for more than one in those days? :dunno:

[jimmy-adjovi]

Ronaldo is an outstanding player, one of my favourites.

But he just doesnt produce the goods in the big games. Messi does. Consistently.
Are you being serious???????

[frazeHFC]

Are you being serious???????

I have never seen a game and said "Messi wasn't in it", but i have seen a fair few Madrid games where Ronaldo is nowhere to be seen. I don't see many of the Spanish games, but i have noticed that. Not saying Ronaldo isn't good, he is amazing, but he does better against the smaller teams imo aswell.

[Wembley67]

I just looked at Puskas record, unreal, but what i don't get is, he scored 84 goals in 85 games for Hungary, then played for Spain? Could you play for more than one in those days? :dunno:

I'm guessing he took the spanish nationality after staying/playing there for such a long time...I've no idea if that could still be done now, I don't think you could, but interesting question all the same.

[frazeHFC]

I'm guessing he took the spanish nationality after staying/playing there for such a long time...I've no idea if that could still be done now, I don't think you could, but interesting question all the same.

You can still get the nationality and play now, but must have been an old rule where you could do this even having played for another country.

Would be very interested if anyone knew the year the rules changed. :agree:

[hfc rd]

The greatest player of this generation by a country mile. Words simply can't describe this lad.

[jimmy-adjovi]

He won and scored in the 2008 champs league final with man u, or we only counting el classico games as the big ones? Copa del rey final last year? Who gets the winner?

[PISTOL1875]

Messi won't be the best player ever until he does something at international level.

:thumbsup::thumbsup::agree::agree::top marks:top marks


Maradona and Zidane have both done it at club and International level.. To be the greatest , you have to be able to do it at the greatest level..

Messi has a bit to go before he's there but he will get there.. There's no doubt about it....

[--------]

I just looked at Puskas record, unreal, but what i don't get is, he scored 84 goals in 85 games for Hungary, then played for Spain? Could you play for more than one in those days? :dunno:


He played for Honved, the Hungarian Army side, with the rank of major. They were playing an away tie in the European Cup when the Soviets sent the tanks into Budapest in 1956. He and a number of other Honved players immediately asked for political asylum, and they were granted it.

Real Madrid, being no fools, signed him up pronto. He couldn't return to Hungary, so after he took Spanish citizenship in 1962, he qualified to play for Spain. By that time he was past his prime, though.

He wasn't the only one. Di Stefano played for Argentina before coming to Spain; then he played for Spain. And there was Jose Altafini who was born in Brazil but played for Italy. He played for Napoli against us in 1968 - in the first leg. He didn't come to ER, or we probably wouldbn't have beaten them TBH. Italy and Spain in particular had a habit of capping South Americans of Spanish or Italian extraction.

All my life I've held fast to the opinion that Puskas was THE GREATEST ever. Better than Pele, better than Maradona, better than Best. Messi, however, is beginning toi make me wonder. If he starts doing it at international level for Argentina, I may have to revise my opinion.

[frazeHFC]

He played for Honved, the Hungarian Army side, with the rank of major. They were playing an away tie in the European Cup when the Soviets sent th e tanks into Budapest in 1956. He and an number of other Honved players immediately asked for political asylum, and they were granted it.

Real Madrid, being no fools, signed him up pronto. He couldn't return to Hungary, so after he took Spanish citizenship in 1962, he qualified to play for Spain. By that time he was past his prime, though.

He wasn't the only one. Di Stefano played for Argentina before coming to Spain; then he played for Spain. And there was Jose Altafini who was born in Brazil but played for Italy. He played for Napoli against us in 1968 - in the first leg. He didn't come to ER, or we probably wouldbn't have beaten them TBH. Italy and Spain in particular had a habit of capping South Americans of Spanish or Italian extraction.

All my life I've held fast to the opinion that Puskas was THE GREATEST ever. Better than Pele, better than Maradona, better than Best. Messi, however, is beginning toi make me wonder. If he starts doing it at international level for Argentina, I may have to revise my opinion.

Cheers for that. Could it still happen now if a player played for their South American country then moved to Spain or Italy to play for their national side?

[Barman Stanton]

I think Messi has to win the World Cup to be the best of all time. But he has probably 3 more chances and Brazil may not be a bad bet. Already the best of his generation by a mile.

Some amazing scoring records mentioned in this thread. Shows you how good Joe Baker was as his Hibs record was similar.

[nonshinyfinish]

Cheers for that. Could it still happen now if a player played for their South American country then moved to Spain or Italy to play for their national side?

No. I don't know when the rules changed, but now once you have a senior cap then you can't play for another country.

[Haymaker]

Italy won the 1934 with plenty of players who won the world cup 4 years before!

[Baader]

Messi is incredible but the greatest ever accolade will only really apply once he wins the World Cup - which I imagine he probably will at some stage.

On a different note, Gerd Muller's goal ratio never ceases to amazes me, esp for Germany:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gerd_M%C3%BCller

[--------]

England played Hungary in 1953 in a friendly. Billy Wright, the England captain and centre-half, was standing beside Puskas in the tunnel before the game. He turned to his goalkeeper, Gil Merrick, and remarked, "Who's the wee fat guy? He doesn't look much like a footballer to me. We'll have no trouble today."

This is just one of the things the "wee fat guy" did to Wright on the way to a 6-3 victory.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FhoxJOAME-4

One of my absolutely favourite goals of all time.

I have the DVD of the 1960 European Cup Final. Real are immense, and Puskas and Di Stefano are sublime - they hardly look as if they've broken sweat.

And the team they dismantled 7-3 beat Rangers 12-4 on aggregate in the semi-final. I have a wee regret that Real weren't drawn against the Huns instead of Barca in the semi. Goodness knows how many goals they might have scored.... :devil:

[frazeHFC]

England played Hungary in 1953 in a friendly. Billy Wright, the England captain and centre-half, was standing beside Puskas in the tunnel before the game. He turned to his goalkeeper, Gil Merrick, and remarked, "Who's the wee fat guy? He doesn't look much like a footballer to me. We'll have no trouble today."

This is just one of the things the "wee fat guy" did to Wright on the way to a 6-3 victory.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FhoxJOAME-4

One of my absolutely favourite goals of all time.



I saw a programme on Puskas, i think on Sky Sports, and it talked about that. He certainly showed them after the tunnel comments! :greengrin

[hibee92]

Ronaldo - 124 goals in 126 games for Madrid. 96 league goals in 88.

Impressive.

[--------]

I saw a programme on Puskas, i think on Sky Sports, and it talked about that. He certainly showed them after the tunnel comments! :greengrin


Messi and Puskas share the ability to do terrible things to the opposition without ever seeming to have to exert themselves.

Just when you're asking yourself, "Is he actually playing?" Messi pops up and scores an absolute stunner, then vanishes for 15 minutes before doing exactly the same again. And again. Puskas was the same.

The other thing is that in terms of character and behaviour, they're both very level-headed. No histrionics, like Maradona or Ronaldo, no drugs or booze like Best or Maradona.




And no Viagra adverts like Pele. :cb

[nonshinyfinish]

Ronaldo - 124 goals in 126 games for Madrid. 96 league goals in 88.

Impressive.

I do feel a bit sorry for Ronaldo, a great footballer who is overshadowed by possibly the greatest ever.

I'd feel a lot more sorry for him if he didn't seem like such a preening twat.

[Hibernia&Alba]

Bugger, I decided not to bother watching the Barcelona game. :fuming:

[Haymaker]

Messi and Puskas share the ability to do terrible things to the opposition without ever seeming to have to exert themselves.

Sad thing about Puskas though Doddie is how he passed. Apparently he was in poverty and I recollect at fund-raiser for him by Real which, after all the fees for the players to appear, left Puskas around 1,000euros. If that is true, there was an article on it somewhere when he died, it is a sad ending for such a great player.

[Pete]

I think Messi has to win the World Cup to be the best of all time. But he has probably 3 more chances and Brazil may not be a bad bet. Already the best of his generation by a mile.

Some amazing scoring records mentioned in this thread. Shows you how good Joe Baker was as his Hibs record was similar.

I'll have to agree. Maradona dragged an ordinary Argentina to a world cup win in 1986.

I love watching Messi but how much of this brilliance is down to the team he plays for? He plays in a team that is undoubtedly one of the best ever seen due to their philosophy. You can stick purchased quality players into this set-up as well as youth players and they both seem to blend in seamlessly and become part of this unit. I think Messi thrives because this is his footballing home and the club and it's way of playing are a part of him and have been since he was very young.

For Messi to be considered one of the true greats he either has to leave Barcelona and still be the same player or take Argentina to World cup glory. It might sound harsh but I'd like to see him more out of this comfort zone he is in. It's one hell of a comfort zone and has no reason to leave but unless he joins another team there will always be that doubt.

[Keith_M]

I just looked at Puskas record, unreal, but what i don't get is, he scored 84 goals in 85 games for Hungary, then played for Spain? Could you play for more than one in those days? :dunno:

He defected and took out Spanish citizenship, so maybe just the circumstances.

[Keith_M]

The other thing is that in terms of character and behaviour, they're both very level-headed. No histrionics, like Maradona or Ronaldo, no drugs or booze like Best or Maradona.




And no Viagra adverts like Pele. :cb

and never did adverts ike Ronaldo where he went round saying

"Helloooooooo Laaayyydeeeeeeeezzz"

[Pete]

Ronaldo - 124 goals in 126 games for Madrid. 96 league goals in 88.

Impressive.

Ronaldo has been shoehorned into this debate for some reason and he shouldn't even be mentioned in the same breath as Messi.

I wouldn't let him lace the boots of the real Ronaldo, Gheorghe Hagi, Hristo Stoichkov, Romario or Ronaldinho. I'm sure Fergie would have even chosen Paul Gascoigne in his prime over Ronaldo in his. I would as well.

He's good looking and muscular...which unfortunately counts for a lot nowadays.

[Sunny1875]

Messi does it in the big games as well as against the lower ranked teams. Ronaldo doesn't.

There's no doubting he's a top, top player as well though. He's just not as good as Messi :greengrin


and a bit of a knob to boot

[HUTCHYHIBBY]

Ronaldo has been shoehorned into this debate for some reason and he shouldn't even be mentioned in the same breath as Messi.

I wouldn't let him lace the boots of the real Ronaldo, Gheorghe Hagi, Hristo Stoichkov, Romario or Ronaldinho. I'm sure Fergie would have even chosen Paul Gascoigne in his prime over Ronaldo in his. I would as well.

I realise this thread is a Messi love in which is fine, but, that is just going too far to be honest.

[Teo10]

Put it this way, home many times have you seen ronaldo go past a man (without the tap and run) without doing any stepovers and tricks?!

Yes, I am a big fan of Messi but he is a more natural ball player whereas Ronaldo, who is also a very very good player, is more of an athlete (as mentioned before)

They are very different players but what is all this Ronaldo is better nonsense just becuase ONE year out of the past 4 Real will finally win the league and ronaldo will probably end top scorer?!

The amount of times Messi can take a shot but decides to pass and set up a team mate shows he is a team player whereas Ronaldo would shoot.

I've watched alot of both Barca and Real games and you can notice the difference.

They are both amazing players but Messi is on a completely different level. How many big games has he scored in compared to Ronaldo, he bottles it too much when things dont go his way and walks about pouting with his arms crossed.

[down-the-slope]

the amazing thing with Messi - and Ronaldo...is that we are talking and comparing them to past greats now...and they stack up very well...



scary thing is they both may have 10 years still at top level left.......

[johnrebus]

the amazing thing with Messi - and Ronaldo...is that we are talking and comparing them to past greats now...and they stack up very well...



scary thing is they both may have 10 years still at top level left.......



Messi played the first half against us at Murrayfield in the 6-0 game.


I turned to my son at half time and said. ' That guy is the best I have ever seen '. We went to see Thierry Henry, but all I could do was rave about this wee guy for days afterwards.

I bet Paul Hanlon still has nightmares..........,


:greengrin

[blackpoolhibs]

I dont need to see him win a world cup to know he's the best i have ever seen.

[calumhibee1]

I dont need to see him win a world cup to know he's the best i have ever seen.

Exactly. All this pish about winning the world cup or moving to another team is ridiculous, his performances for Barcelona have been by far the best I've ever seen from any one player, and I find it hard to believe anyone else in history has been better than him. What were seeing on a weekly basis from Messi is even miles ahead of Zidane or the real Ronaldo, who for me, were better players than C. Ronaldo.

[Andy74]

Exactly. All this pish about winning the world cup or moving to another team is ridiculous, his performances for Barcelona have been by far the best I've ever seen from any one player, and I find it hard to believe anyone else in history has been better than him. What were seeing on a weekly basis from Messi is even miles ahead of Zidane or the real Ronaldo, who for me, were better players than C. Ronaldo.

Yes, but there have been players before the ones you mentioned who also had exceptional achievements or performances at an international level.

Take Pele. He scored 1281 goals in 1363 games. Over an extended period that its not a bad record.

For Brazil he scored 77 goals in 92 games.

He won 3 world cups.

At 17 years old he scored in the World cup quarter final, a hat trick in the semi final and two in the final.

As has been mentioned above Maradona almost singled handedley dragged Argentina to the 1986 World Cup where he got 5 goals and 5 assists.

So, Messi has a wee bit to go on the international stage to prove he can do it outwith the Barcelona team and be the greatest ever. I think at the last World Cup he failed to score any goals, though he did have some assists and Argentina lost 4-0 in going out to Germany.

[Steve20]

So, Messi has a wee bit to go on the international stage to prove he can do it outwith the Barcelona team and be the greatest ever.

It's all about opinions really. There is no rule that says to be the best player in the world, you MUST win a World Cup.

As far as I'm concerned, he is the best player I have ever seen.

[calumhibee1]

It's all about opinions really. There is no rule that says to be the best player in the world, you MUST win a World Cup.

As far as I'm concerned, he is the best player I have ever seen.

Exactly the point I was trying to make.

[blackpoolhibs]

It's all about opinions really. There is no rule that says to be the best player in the world, you MUST win a World Cup.

As far as I'm concerned, he is the best player I have ever seen.


Exactly the point I was trying to make.

Me too. :agree:

[johnrebus]

Yes, but there have been players before the ones you mentioned who also had exceptional achievements or performances at an international level.

Take Pele. He scored 1281 goals in 1363 games. Over an extended period that its not a bad record.

For Brazil he scored 77 goals in 92 games.

He won 3 world cups.

At 17 years old he scored in the World cup quarter final, a hat trick in the semi final and two in the final.

As has been mentioned above Maradona almost singled handedley dragged Argentina to the 1986 World Cup where he got 5 goals and 5 assists.

So, Messi has a wee bit to go on the international stage to prove he can do it outwith the Barcelona team and be the greatest ever. I think at the last World Cup he failed to score any goals, though he did have some assists and Argentina lost 4-0 in going out to Germany.


I saw Pele play. And Maradona, Best, Cruyff, etc. etc.

In my humble opinion, Messi is on a different level.

Sooner or later Argentina will get it together and pose a serious threat to Spain at the next World Cup.


:greengrin

[Andy74]

It's all about opinions really. There is no rule that says to be the best player in the world, you MUST win a World Cup.

As far as I'm concerned, he is the best player I have ever seen.

I didn't say he has to win one, you need a team around you for that anyway, but he has to start making an impact at international level.

I think somne of Pele's early achievents at 17 such as the 6 goals in the last 3 rounds of the world cup are incredible. So far we know Messi can operate in the best club team ever to play football. Maybe international football just isn't what it was, but maybe even more reason to start standing out on that stage?

[IWasThere2016]

I think the lad is Hibs class :cb

[Haymaker]

I think the lad is Hibs class :cb

If he stopped wearing they silly coloured boots maybe!

[Sergio sledge]

Yes, but there have been players before the ones you mentioned who also had exceptional achievements or performances at an international level.

Take Pele. He scored 1281 goals in 1363 games. Over an extended period that its not a bad record.

For Brazil he scored 77 goals in 92 games.

He won 3 world cups.

At 17 years old he scored in the World cup quarter final, a hat trick in the semi final and two in the final.

As has been mentioned above Maradona almost singled handedley dragged Argentina to the 1986 World Cup where he got 5 goals and 5 assists.

So, Messi has a wee bit to go on the international stage to prove he can do it outwith the Barcelona team and be the greatest ever. I think at the last World Cup he failed to score any goals, though he did have some assists and Argentina lost 4-0 in going out to Germany.

In days gone by national teams would be the pinnacle and the best teams, but that is not the case nowadays. I think that there are many club sides better than international sides at the minute, so that has to have a bearing on whether international level performance is a pre-requisite for being classed as the greatest ever.

[Big_Franck]

Look, lionel messi is the unquestionably the greatest player in the world.
He's possibly the greatest player ever.

Ronaldo is great player, but he's no messi.

End of

This. Ronaldo's record against Barcelona is poor, whereas Messi's against Real is amazing. Granted, Ronaldo did score a couple of goals against Barca in the cup recently when the sub goalie was playing.

He has only ever scored one goal against a full strength Barca (ie. with Valdes in goals) in his career with both Real and Man United, and this was a penalty.

Ronaldo's performances have been so poor against Barca that in the league game at the Bernabeu earlier this season the Madrid fans had had enough of him bottling it in big games and booed his touches in the second half.

Messi consistently does it in the big games which is why he is head and shoulders above Ronaldo.

[Big_Franck]

In days gone by national teams would be the pinnacle and the best teams, but that is not the case nowadays. I think that there are many club sides better than international sides at the minute, so that has to have a bearing on whether international level performance is a pre-requisite for being classed as the greatest ever.

Agreed. This is something that the older generation seem to use a lot. It's understandable as the World Cup final was the pinnacle of football. It's arguable now that the Champions League final is at least on a par with it.

Look at the line-ups from last year's champions league final and the last world cup final. Would the likes of Steklenberg, Van der Wiel, Heitinga or Mathijsen have got a game for either Barca or Man United?

The standard of play, and the standard of player playing in the Champions League finals is now at least on a par with the World Cup final.

[Andy74]

Agreed. This is something that the older generation seem to use a lot. It's understandable as the World Cup final was the pinnacle of football. It's arguable now that the Champions League final is at least on a par with it.

Look at the line-ups from last year's champions league final and the last world cup final. Would the likes of Steklenberg, Van der Wiel, Heitinga or Mathijsen have got a game for either Barca or Man United?

The standard of play, and the standard of player playing in the Champions League finals is now at least on a par with the World Cup final.

Yes, but teams can buy players and Barcelona are an exceptional all round team.

As mentioned before Maradona essentially led a team that was not in itself good enough to win the world cup.

If the standard is overll porrer than club football then that's even more of a question mark as to why Messi has struggled to stand out in it.

It's obviously difficuly judging previous generations when most haven't seen them at their respective peaks but as it stands I think Messi has a way to go to eclipse the likes of Pele.

[blackpoolhibs]

Agreed. This is something that the older generation seem to use a lot. It's understandable as the World Cup final was the pinnacle of football. It's arguable now that the Champions League final is at least on a par with it.

Look at the line-ups from last year's champions league final and the last world cup final. Would the likes of Steklenberg, Van der Wiel, Heitinga or Mathijsen have got a game for either Barca or Man United?

The standard of play, and the standard of player playing in the Champions League finals is now at least on a par with the World Cup final.

:agree: Messi is a genius, i love watching him play, the finest player i have ever seen. And he's just 24, is there anything this lad cant do with a football?

[Barney McGrew]

They are very different players but what is all this Ronaldo is better nonsense just becuase ONE year out of the past 4 Real will finally win the league and ronaldo will probably end top scorer?

There's nothing in it - Ronaldo has 30 so far and Messi 28 so it's still too close to call.

It's also worth noting that 10 of Ronaldo's goals have been penalties, whereas Messi only has two from the spot.

[Hibernia&Alba]

Re the debate on whether Messi the greatest ever player, just a couple of points. The game today is much less physical and the pitches are much better than in the past. The ball is also much lighter. These changes have been to the benifit of the most technical players. Also, Messi is fortunate to play in what is already a brilliant Barcelona team, with players around him who are also amongst the all time greats. Maradona, for example, enabled an average Argentina team to become world champions and an average Napoli team to become Italian champions for the first time. Just worth bearing in mind, though of course Messi is certainly amongst the best ever.

[HIBERNIAN-0762]

His close control in the box is unreal, as one pundit said you simply cannot get near him in that situation, if you do then you have to bring him down and it will almost certainly mean a penalty.

I really wonder how much he is worth and who could afford him if anyone.

[Captain Trips]

Messi is excellent and certainly on course to be greatest or one of. Still for me Maradona is still the best. We are lucky enough through media to see how Messi is going about his business but in Maradona's day we were greatly restricted to seeing him and it being only really at world cup so we probably all missed some wonderful stuff week in week out at his club levels.

My understanding is that Maradona was to Napoli what Messi is now, yes he scored less than Messi but for me played in different role.

[Teo10]

There's nothing in it - Ronaldo has 30 so far and Messi 28 so it's still too close to call.

It's also worth noting that 10 of Ronaldo's goals have been penalties, whereas Messi only has two from the spot.

I still think Ronaldo will edge it, Messi is too unselfish in his play infront of goal. Something which Barca have been critisied for and rightly so, they want that extra pass and walk it in instead of shooting.

Fair play to Mourinho, Real pretty much bought a bunch of individual players and FINALLY has them playing like a team.

[Haymaker]

It's also worth noting that 10 of Ronaldo's goals have been penalties, whereas Messi only has two from the spot.

Goals are goals. Scoring penalties is still difficult, the pressure is different too.

IMO both are brilliant for different reasons. Messi has such close control, technique, so much power and pace for such a slight individual, he fits into a short passing, build up football team.

Ronaldo has the power, the pace, the strong drive and technique, the ridiculous ability to pull off skills at high pace, score from almost every angle (including a backheal the other day!), he fits into a powerful, countering football team that relies on short, fast football.

Two brilliant talents for two completely different styles of football.

[poolman]

I actually think Messi's lucky to play with such a good team hence he is being made to look better than he is.

Three of his goals last night were more good fortune than skill and I think that most good forwards would have scored five or six last night as well

A much overrated player IMO

[thebakerboy]

He played for Honved, the Hungarian Army side, with the rank of major. They were playing an away tie in the European Cup when the Soviets sent the tanks into Budapest in 1956. He and a number of other Honved players immediately asked for political asylum, and they were granted it.

Real Madrid, being no fools, signed him up pronto. He couldn't return to Hungary, so after he took Spanish citizenship in 1962, he qualified to play for Spain. By that time he was past his prime, though.

He wasn't the only one. Di Stefano played for Argentina before coming to Spain; then he played for Spain. And there was Jose Altafini who was born in Brazil but played for Italy. He played for Napoli against us in 1968 - in the first leg. He didn't come to ER, or we probably wouldbn't have beaten them TBH. Italy and Spain in particular had a habit of capping South Americans of Spanish or Italian extraction.

All my life I've held fast to the opinion that Puskas was THE GREATEST ever. Better than Pele, better than Maradona, better than Best. Messi, however, is beginning toi make me wonder. If he starts doing it at international level for Argentina, I may have to revise my opinion.

Somehow Di Stefano also played for Columbia between playing for Argentina and spain:confused:

[Pretty Boy]

I actually think Messi's lucky to play with such a good team hence he is being made to look better than he is.

Three of his goals last night were more good fortune than skill and I think that most good forwards would have scored five or six last night as well

A much overrated player IMO

Oh dear.

Having been lucky enough to watch Barca at close quarters for an entire season and a bit I can say that there is nothing overrated about Messi.

Barca rightly get lauded when they really click but I saw a fair few sluggish performance where Messi was the difference between a draw or defeat and a win. He dragged them over the line in some games.

The guy is different class and does a lot of 'unseen' work, not of the Brian Kerr variety, for the team that is rarely commented on but just as important as the goals and assists.

[Hibernia&Alba]

I actually think Messi's lucky to play with such a good team hence he is being made to look better than he is.

Three of his goals last night were more good fortune than skill and I think that most good forwards would have scored five or six last night as well

A much overrated player IMO

:fishin:


http://www.northwestguidesandresorts.com/report9.jpg

[poolman]

Oh dear.

Having been lucky enough to watch Barca at close quarters for an entire season and a bit I can say that there is nothing overrated about Messi.

Barca rightly get lauded when they really click but I saw a fair few sluggish performance where Messi was the difference between a draw or defeat and a win. He dragged them over the line in some games.

The guy is different class and does a lot of 'unseen' work, not of the Brian Kerr variety, for the team that is rarely commented on but just as important as the goals and assists.


GOT YE :greengrin

The guy is a genius :agree:

[poolman]

:fishin:


http://www.northwestguidesandresorts.com/report9.jpg


:wink:

[Pretty Boy]

GOT YE :greengrin

The guy is a genius :agree:

Hook, line and sinker.

[Dashing Bob S]

Did he play in the Intercontinental Classico against Hibs at Muddyfield? I can't remember.

Anyway, poor man's Brian Kerr when it comes to invisibility.

[--------]

and never did adverts ike Ronaldo where he went round saying

"Helloooooooo Laaayyydeeeeeeeezzz"


You mean the thong? :devil:



According to ESPN Soccernet, all games Ronaldo has made 446 senior appearances - starts and subs - and scored 261 goals - average 0.585goals per game. Messi has made 360 senior appearances and scored 242 goals - average 0.672.

Over that number of games that's quite a difference in Messi's favour. And he's three years younger than Ronaldo, ad at 24 he should just be coming into his prime now. In other words, all things being equal, the next 5/6 years should be the best years of his career.

There's also the question of how he influences the rest of the team, and how he contributes to the team effort as a whole, and in this I'd have to say he's better than Ronaldo, who is, let's face it more than a bit of a prima donna at times. There are times when Ronaldo doesn't turn up; I don't think you can level the same criticism at Messi.

As for winning the World Cup, Puskas didn't - the nearest he got was with Hungary as losing finalists in 1954 - and no one who saw him would doubt his credentials as one of the very best players ever to grace the football pitch. And there were a lot of folks in those days who reckoned Di Stafano was the better player.

It's all down to opinions, I'd guess, but for me it's a no-brainer - Messi is the best player playing just now by far, and his ability is just set off all the more impressibvely by the quiet way he conducts himself on the pitch.

I never thought I'd say this, but having watched the highlights again this moring, I'm not sure Messi isn't better than Puskas right now. I'm not sure that he won't prove to be better than Pele in the end.

That performance last night was just awesome, the more so because as usual he didn't even appear to have broken sweat.

[--------]

Did he play in the Intercontinental Classico against Hibs at Muddyfield? I can't remember.

Anyway, poor man's Brian Kerr when it comes to invisibility.


I can, Bob. I think Hanlon and Jones and Co still wake up screaming.

But you're right - he isn't in the same class as Brian Kerr. He really hasn't mastered the art of "unseen work". far too conspicuous - BK would never have made such a display of himself as Messi did last night.

[Hibernia&Alba]

Hook, line and sinker.

In the keep net, PB :greengrin

[nonshinyfinish]

GOT YE :greengrin

The guy is a genius :agree:

:hilarious

I admit, I was halfway through writing an irate response when I thought, 'Nah, surely not.'

[--------]

Somehow Di Stefano also played for Columbia between playing for Argentina and spain:confused:


He did indeed. It seems that FIFA were as careful about paperwork and registrations in those days as the SFA and SPL are now.

And somehow it always seemed to work out to the advantage of the BIG TEAMS even then.

[nonshinyfinish]

He did indeed. It seems that FIFA were as careful about paperwork and registrations in those days as the SFA and SPL are now.

And somehow it always seemed to work out to the advantage of the BIG TEAMS even then.

Was it actually against the rules back then? Or was it the case that if you got citizenship in a new country then you could play for them, regardless of who you had played for before?

[Haymaker]

Was it actually against the rules back then? Or was it the case that if you got citizenship in a new country then you could play for them, regardless of who you had played for before?

Basically yes. The Italians used the "rule of blood" (being under mussolini at the time!) to recruit a number of Argentines and Uruguayans who had been born in SA but their parents/grandparents and even further were italian. FIFA wasnt really a big hitter at the time and no one seemed to care other than the home nations who didnt want to play against the "lesser footballing nations" of the world.


With Puskas and the like, I get the feeling it was more political than anything else - getting one over those pesky commies in the east and the like. :cb

[--------]

Basically yes. The Italians used the "rule of blood" (being under mussolini at the time!) to recruit a number of Argentines and Uruguayans who had been born in SA but their parents/grandparents and even further were italian. FIFA wasnt really a big hitter at the time and no one seemed to care other than the home nations who didnt want to play against the "lesser footballing nations" of the world.


With Puskas and the like, I get the feeling it was more political than anything else - getting one over those pesky commies in the east and the like. :cb


I think the Honved players were seen as the same as dancers like Nureyev, Baryshnikov the Kozlovs and Makarova. At the top of their profession, so given a chance others might not have been given. Martina Navratilova was a defector; Milos Forman the film director and Alexander Korchnoi the chess grandmaster too.

Political defectors were in a slightly different position than the South American footballers co-opted by Spain and Italy to boost their national leagues and strengthen their national teams. Who they were and what they did gave them the chance to get out of the Soviet bloc, and theyt took that chance. I can't really blame them, TBH.

[Wotherspiniesta]

Ronaldo has been shoehorned into this debate for some reason and he shouldn't even be mentioned in the same breath as Messi.

I wouldn't let him lace the boots of the real Ronaldo, Gheorghe Hagi, Hristo Stoichkov, Romario or Ronaldinho. I'm sure Fergie would have even chosen Paul Gascoigne in his prime over Ronaldo in his. I would as well.

He's good looking and muscular...which unfortunately counts for a lot nowadays.

:hilarious

You're kidding right? 84 goals in 196 appearances for Man United and better than a goal a game at Real Madrid.

Ronaldo may be a bit of a knob, but he's a little better than "good looking and muscular"

He's the 2nd best player in the world.

[Wotherspiniesta]

Put it this way, home many times have you seen ronaldo go past a man (without the tap and run) without doing any stepovers and tricks?!

Yes, I am a big fan of Messi but he is a more natural ball player whereas Ronaldo, who is also a very very good player, is more of an athlete (as mentioned before)

They are very different players but what is all this Ronaldo is better nonsense just becuase ONE year out of the past 4 Real will finally win the league and ronaldo will probably end top scorer?!

The amount of times Messi can take a shot but decides to pass and set up a team mate shows he is a team player whereas Ronaldo would shoot.

I've watched alot of both Barca and Real games and you can notice the difference.

They are both amazing players but Messi is on a completely different level. How many big games has he scored in compared to Ronaldo, he bottles it too much when things dont go his way and walks about pouting with his arms crossed.

Ah, that old fable.

So what are these big games where Ronaldo "bottles it" in? I seem to remember him scoring in a champions league final a few seasons ago and if you cared to have a look, you'll see he's actually go a very good scoring record against Barcelona. Something like 5 in his last 7 or 8.

Hardly "bottling it"

Walking about pouting with his arms crossed happens near enough on a weekly basis with him because he's a "bit of a knob"

[Pretty Boy]

Ah, that old fable.

So what are these big games where Ronaldo "bottles it" in? I seem to remember him scoring in a champions league final a few seasons ago and if you cared to have a look, you'll see he's actually go a very good scoring record against Barcelona. Something like 5 in his last 7 or 8.

Hardly "bottling it"

Walking about pouting with his arms crossed happens near enough on a weekly basis with him because he's a "bit of a knob"

You seen to have taken quite a bit of umbrage to my 'bit of a knob' comment.

To clarify yes I do think he comes accross a bit like that but it doesn't detract from the fact he's a very fine footballer.

The point I was trying to make, and one I think has been proven on this thread, is that people are more willing to give praise to someone they perceive to be a 'nice guy'.

[Wotherspiniesta]

You seen to have taken quite a bit of umbrage to my 'bit of a knob' comment.

To clarify yes I do think he comes accross a bit like that but it doesn't detract from the fact he's a very fine footballer.

The point I was trying to make, and one I think has been proven on this thread, is that people are more willing to give praise to someone they perceive to be a 'nice guy'.

I was just qouting your "bit of a knob" comment as I found it quite funny. He's not a bit of a knob....he's a complete knob :greengrin

Messi's one of a kind, fore sure. An exceptional talent and the best in the world. But Ronaldo's scoring expolits are very similar.

[Since90+2]

:hilarious

You're kidding right? 84 goals in 196 appearances for Man United and better than a goal a game at Real Madrid.

Ronaldo may be a bit of a knob, but he's a little better than "good looking and muscular"

He's the 2nd best player in the world.

3rd best player in the world IMO , after Messi and Xavi.

[nonshinyfinish]

3rd best player in the world IMO , after Messi and Xavi.

This is where, for me, all this 'best player in the world', 'best player ever' stuff falls down. How do you compare Xavi with Ronaldo or Messi? To my mind, Xavi is obviously the best in his position in the world, just as clearly as Messi is. But how do you compare footballers who play in completely different positions? No one would argue that Messi is one of the greatest footballers ever, but the ongoing quest to identify The Single Greatest Footballer really equates to looking for the best attacking midfielder/forward ever.

Who was a better footballer, Franco Baresi or Dennis Bergkamp? How do you even begin to compare them?

(I should add that I'm not having a go at you, it's just that your mentioning Xavi caused me to boil over somewhat. And that's saying something, since Xavi is my current favourite footballer.)

[weonlywon6-2]

:not worth:not worth:not worth

thats all


wouldnt be surprised if Man City come in with a crazy offer for him in the summer,knowing fine they wont get him,but the publicity will make them look good:greengrin

[Hibs7]

€250m is the asking price on his contract.

[Nitten Hibee]

Messi = Hibs Class :agree:

Ronaldo would be better suited over at the pink bus shelter :na na:

Nothing to do with ability purely down to the fact Ronaldo seems a bit of a t*t

[Haymaker]

I think the Honved players were seen as the same as dancers like Nureyev, Baryshnikov the Kozlovs and Makarova. At the top of their profession, so given a chance others might not have been given. Martina Navratilova was a defector; Milos Forman the film director and Alexander Korchnoi the chess grandmaster too.

Political defectors were in a slightly different position than the South American footballers co-opted by Spain and Italy to boost their national leagues and strengthen their national teams. Who they were and what they did gave them the chance to get out of the Soviet bloc, and theyt took that chance. I can't really blame them, TBH.


I can't blame them either doddie but the difference is the time. In the 30s no one cared because it wasn't a big deal for Italy to do that, many players did it. With the honved players the did defect but at the time it was acceptable and almost definitely a score for the west. I don't blame them either but I would struggle to defend anyone who did the same today...

[Skanko79]

I think Messi is a far better player than Ronaldo just now, Ronaldo i reckon wont get any better (dont get me wrong, still a fantastic player) and is as good as he is ever going to be. He has consistency on his side but how long he can keep it up for is the question.

Messi on the other hand improves with every game and is surrounded by sheer class which also gives him a helping hand, but you can still tell that if he went into any team he would perform the same. As i said as well the laddie is always improving and i think has another 3 years of that untill he is at his best. gets better every game.

As for the greatest player ever, just now i would say Maradonna, although that could well change to Messi in the next 4 or 5 years.