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View Full Version : Rod on the telly tonight ?



down-the-slope
06-03-2012, 06:50 PM
Looks like the Tache is on the panel :greengrin

crewetollhibee
06-03-2012, 06:53 PM
Just saw Rob Mclean talking about the debate tonight on BBC at 10.35. I'm sure that was our Rod sitting next to Steven Pressley in the background. Anyone confirm ?

Hibercelona
06-03-2012, 06:56 PM
Not sure.

But I could just picture Rod on the TV attempting an Oxfam style advert pleading for a donation of just £400 per season. :wink:

The Falcon
06-03-2012, 07:09 PM
Just saw Rob Mclean talking about the debate tonight on BBC at 10.35. I'm sure that was our Rod sitting next to Steven Pressley in the background. Anyone confirm ?


Rod is on.


With Levein and Pressley, along with Stewart Regan and Traynor, so it should be interesting to say the least.

Hibercelona
06-03-2012, 10:48 PM
Cringeworthy already.

Petrie the only one so far not showing any level of sympathy. :agree:

down-the-slope
06-03-2012, 10:48 PM
introduction part undersatndably all about Rangers...Too much bum nosing for me...until Rod who would not answer 'yes' to the question does Scottish football need a strong Rangers...Talked about the need for sporting integrity :not worth

HiBremian
06-03-2012, 10:51 PM
The Tache refused to say that Scotland needs the Huns, and instead talked about being "sporting".:agree:

Mon Dieu4
06-03-2012, 10:52 PM
Well done Rodders, as for Potter the best way to qualify for a tournament would be pick the best striker we have you fudd

SteveHFC
06-03-2012, 10:52 PM
Peter Houston - We need the old firm in Scotland :rolleyes:

Hibrandenburg
06-03-2012, 10:52 PM
Hibs class Rod. No ass kissing there and showed his displeasure without being overly dramatic or emotional.

Alex Trager
06-03-2012, 10:52 PM
Any links? what channel is it on?

SteveHFC
06-03-2012, 10:53 PM
Any links? what channel is it on?

It's on BBC 1

HiBremian
06-03-2012, 10:53 PM
Any links? what channel is it on?

BBC1 Scotland

FranckSuzy
06-03-2012, 10:53 PM
Peter Houston - We need the old firm in Scotland :rolleyes:

He's got to say that though - Rangers are due his club thousands :wink:

Barney McGrew
06-03-2012, 10:54 PM
He made a perfectly valid point about teams that played them earlier in the season (i.e. us) played a full strength Rangers, whereas teams now are playing a depleted Rangers team.

Mon the tache :greengrin

Hibernia&Alba
06-03-2012, 10:54 PM
The Tache refused to say that Scotland needs the Huns, and instead talked about being "sporting".:agree:

i.e. not using taxpayer money to cheat. In tae them, Rodders.

FranckSuzy
06-03-2012, 10:55 PM
In Rod We Trust :agree:

SteveHFC
06-03-2012, 10:59 PM
Potter is still a tosspot :aok:

FranckSuzy
06-03-2012, 11:00 PM
Pressley canny stand Potter either by the looks of it :greengrin

down-the-slope
06-03-2012, 11:00 PM
I'm half expecting Rodders to get an word in for ST renewals......

'Scotland needs to have lots of well run clubs who run within the budget they have'.....:na na: right in the nads to Huns / Mini Huns

Baldy Foghorn
06-03-2012, 11:01 PM
Cringeworthy already.

Petrie the only one so far not showing any level of sympathy. :agree:

Good on Rod for that statement.......

Did Rod just smirk at Levein and Pressley disagreeing?

Hibercelona
06-03-2012, 11:01 PM
Craig Levein is a t!t.

"Footballs about winning at all costs".

Aye, thats why playing 4-6-0's work so well. :confused:

HiBremian
06-03-2012, 11:01 PM
Levein and Traynor both a pain - Potter Trayning:greengrin

Mikeystewart
06-03-2012, 11:02 PM
How do you get to the show via bbc site, changed my location but hasn't changed the stream :-(

down-the-slope
06-03-2012, 11:02 PM
Another Rod Rapier about the lack of reserve league and new even worse U20 + proposal

HiBremian
06-03-2012, 11:02 PM
Craig Levein is a t!t.

"Footballs about winning at all costs".

Aye, thats why playing 4-6-0's work so well. :confused:
:top marks

Hibercelona
06-03-2012, 11:02 PM
Good on Rod for that statement.......

Did Rod just smirk at Levein and Pressley disagreeing?

It's certainly a first for RP. :greengrin

Elephant Stone
06-03-2012, 11:03 PM
http://assets1.wordansassets.com/wordansfiles/images/2011/11/18/108473/108473_340.jpg?1321658922

FranckSuzy
06-03-2012, 11:03 PM
How do you get to the show via bbc site, changed my location but hasn't changed the stream :-(

I know, I tried that too but it's about Lewis Hamilton's brother :rolleyes:. I'm watching on the TV.

Mikeystewart
06-03-2012, 11:05 PM
I know, I tried that too but it's about Lewis Hamilton's brother :rolleyes:. I'm watching on the TV.

Any idea when it will be on Iplayer?

Barney McGrew
06-03-2012, 11:05 PM
Another Rod Rapier about the lack of reserve league and new even worse U20 + proposal

For someone who has been regularly lampooned on here for not being a 'football man', he's making much more sense than those who have played and managed in it :wink:

FranckSuzy
06-03-2012, 11:08 PM
Any idea when it will be on Iplayer?


Sorry, I've no idea MS.

FranckSuzy
06-03-2012, 11:09 PM
http://assets1.wordansassets.com/wordansfiles/images/2011/11/18/108473/108473_340.jpg?1321658922


:thumbsup: :not worth

FranckSuzy
06-03-2012, 11:11 PM
Rod :not worth 3pm Saturday k.o's

thekaratekid
06-03-2012, 11:11 PM
Petrie is the only person talking sense at the moment.

It's a fairly bizarre setup this debate thing.

HibeeSince85
06-03-2012, 11:11 PM
Check Rod out eh? Think he reads .net?

down-the-slope
06-03-2012, 11:11 PM
Rods a master..asked about TV revenue manages to say how vital ST income is

An point out fan displeasure at TV dictating KO times

Barney McGrew
06-03-2012, 11:12 PM
Rod on his soapbox about TV scheduling now.

He's clearly decided to come out swinging at his irritations tonight :greengrin

HiBremian
06-03-2012, 11:12 PM
Rod :not worth 3pm Saturday k.o's

Aye, another dig at the establishment, there. Good on ya, Rodders.

CallumLaidlaw
06-03-2012, 11:12 PM
RP making more valid points about the tv deals. As is the Killie fan :agree:

Rod no advertising our new season ticket deal. Bless him :greengrin

Mon Dieu4
06-03-2012, 11:13 PM
Haha yes Rod he got the season tickets in there

Baldy Foghorn
06-03-2012, 11:13 PM
Doing his bit for renewing Season Tickets now.........

Westie1875
06-03-2012, 11:13 PM
Advertising STs now :greengrin

Hibernia&Alba
06-03-2012, 11:13 PM
Rod on his soapbox about TV scheduling now.

He's clearly decided to come out swinging at his irritations tonight :greengrin


His tache is bristling. He'll be offering square goes next :greengrin

WindyMiller
06-03-2012, 11:13 PM
Rod read's .net.



:thumbsup:

HibeeSince85
06-03-2012, 11:13 PM
Plugging the st's:greengrin:

PaulSmith
06-03-2012, 11:14 PM
Seemingly it's £12 a game for next season..

Barney McGrew
06-03-2012, 11:14 PM
£12 a game Rod?

Not unless we're playing 34 games at home next year it's not

Hibercelona
06-03-2012, 11:14 PM
Making full use of the broadcast time to advertise our great ST offer.

Thats oor Rod! :faf:

HiBremian
06-03-2012, 11:14 PM
Rodder's defo playing to the fans. And Elvis is backing him. Interesting partnership there?

easty
06-03-2012, 11:14 PM
How long till the tache rips off his shirt to show his new "GET YOUR HIBS 2012/13 SEASON TICKETS NOW" chest tattoo, with a wee wink and nod of the head to the camera?

down-the-slope
06-03-2012, 11:14 PM
Captain Caveman going up in my estimation.....:cb

johnbc70
06-03-2012, 11:15 PM
How is he getting £12 a game?

Gatecrasher
06-03-2012, 11:15 PM
Mr Pressley speaking for the fan

CallumLaidlaw
06-03-2012, 11:15 PM
Have to say, Steven Pressley has been excellent tonight. Bigger leagues required, need to listen to fans, football needs played on the deck. Fair play to captain caveman.

Westie1875
06-03-2012, 11:15 PM
£12 a game Rod?

Not unless we're playing 34 games at home next year it's not

Being a bit creative with the numbers there, I think he whispered it was an average of £12 per game, presumably this is across all STs, i.e. kids ones too which will bring the average way down.

SteveHFC
06-03-2012, 11:15 PM
Rodder's defo playing to the fans. And Elvis is backing him. Interesting partnership there?

Pressley - Future Hibs Manager :greengrin

Holmesdale Hibs
06-03-2012, 11:16 PM
Good on him advertising the season tickets. Sounds like a good deal as well.

Surprised the never asked Rod more about youth football given some of the players we've produced.

Barney McGrew
06-03-2012, 11:16 PM
Captain Caveman going up in my estimation.....:cb

Aye :agree:

Him and Rodders are the only ones on the panel that are making any sense. Doncaster in particular comes across as a wet blanket.

down-the-slope
06-03-2012, 11:17 PM
I'm half expecting Rodders to get an word in for ST renewals......

'Scotland needs to have lots of well run clubs who run within the budget they have'.....:na na: right in the nads to Huns / Mini Huns

Where do I collect my winnings...

HiBremian
06-03-2012, 11:17 PM
"Redistribute the wealth in the game to create more competition" - supporters' rep :agree:

WhileTheChief..
06-03-2012, 11:17 PM
Check Rod out eh? Think he reads .net?

Was thinking the same thing. I think he is right on the money regarding the fans' views. Seems to be saying a lot of the things that folk on here moan about.

Hibbylad86
06-03-2012, 11:17 PM
The tache couldnae help himself there eh. Was odds on he would mention season tickets! That's oor Rodders

Twa Cairpets
06-03-2012, 11:17 PM
Captain Caveman going up in my estimation.....:cb

Yes, have to agree, much though it pains me to say.

And he seems to think potter is a fud, which is worth a point or two.

easty
06-03-2012, 11:17 PM
Doncaster in particular comes across as a wet blanket.

Looks like he's had a wet blanket on his heid.....wet look gel, I didn't think that existed post 2000.

smurf
06-03-2012, 11:17 PM
Our best performance on the telly this year....

From Rodders!!

Gatecrasher
06-03-2012, 11:17 PM
GTF Doncaster ya bawbag

SteveHFC
06-03-2012, 11:18 PM
GTF Doncaster ya bawbag

This :agree:

Barney McGrew
06-03-2012, 11:18 PM
Doncaster is a clown.

GreenPJ
06-03-2012, 11:18 PM
Steven Pressley has gone up leaps and bounds in my estimation. The only one really who is not just really paying lip service but is genuinely trying to challenge the status quo and the problem is when you look at Doncaster, Levein and co they will have a good talking shop but very little will happen if left to this lot.

Saorsa
06-03-2012, 11:19 PM
Doncaster is a clown.:agree:

Hibbylad86
06-03-2012, 11:21 PM
Doncaster is a total welt!! What is he all about? Three organisations into one with SFA running the show. It has to happen, the status quo ain't working!

CallumLaidlaw
06-03-2012, 11:22 PM
GTF Doncaster ya bawbag

:agree: what a fud. Why is he head of our league?

If 16 teams isn't enough, make it 18 teams, so we play 34 games, introduce a winter break or revamp the league cup. Old firm, Edinburgh, dundee derbies will be more exciting as there will on be 1 home and 1 away. Bottom goes straight down, next 2 go into a playoff with 2nd and 3rd in the 1st division. That will also generate interest!!!

HiBremian
06-03-2012, 11:22 PM
Steven Pressley has gone up leaps and bounds in my estimation. The only one really who is not just really paying lip service but is genuinely trying to challenge the status quo and the problem is when you look at Doncaster, Levein and co they will have a good talking shop but very little will happen if left to this lot.

Doncaster's cushy job IS the status quo.

PaulSmith
06-03-2012, 11:22 PM
Doncaster is a clown.

Completely out of touch, can only see short term £££ and cannot see beyond his current tenure.
Wrong man for the job.

down-the-slope
06-03-2012, 11:23 PM
The PR guys will be bricking it now after Rods creative use of the £12 a game line...yes thats the average over all STs.. but you would need a load of cup home games to get near that with a standard adult ticket...

I am going to email and request the Rodders ST...£238 by my reckoning :greengrin

sambajustice
06-03-2012, 11:23 PM
Pressley turning out to be a bit of a ledge!

Potter = knob

joebakerforever
06-03-2012, 11:24 PM
£12 a game Rod?

Not unless we're playing 34 games at home next year it's not

Cleverly worded spin as average cost of a ST as £12 per game :wink:

Will be arrived at by including average of all categories, rather than quoting the separate price bands for adults and the various concessions, which would appear less favourable.

SteveHFC
06-03-2012, 11:24 PM
Pressley has been spot on. :aok:

Elephant Stone
06-03-2012, 11:25 PM
The Wizard: "Hibs have continually produced players"

So he has noticed, who'd have thought it.

HiBremian
06-03-2012, 11:26 PM
Pressley has been spot on. :aok:

:agree: Didn't Elvis tell Mad Vlad to GTF when he was at the Yams?

Barney McGrew
06-03-2012, 11:26 PM
The Wizard: "Hibs have continually produced players"

So he has noticed, who'd have thought it.

Shame he tries to avoid picking any of them for Scotland though :greengrin

FranckSuzy
06-03-2012, 11:28 PM
Potter trying to pass off clubs debt (i.e. Hearts) as historical :crazy:

Mon Dieu4
06-03-2012, 11:28 PM
Well done Rodders and more so for a diving yam, Elvis was the star of the show

HiBremian
06-03-2012, 11:29 PM
Not a bad debate in the end, but you get the feeling the suits will just carry on as per usual, and Pressley will be "kept in his place".:cb

Barney McGrew
06-03-2012, 11:30 PM
Well I certainly feel a lot more confident over the future of Scottish football having listened to the great and the good say their piece tonight :fibber:

Until we rid ourselves of the likes of Doncaster then the game here is going to continue to slide deeper and deeper into the brown stuff.

Hibercelona
06-03-2012, 11:30 PM
Rodders and Elvis +10

Potter and Doncaster GTF!

StevieC
06-03-2012, 11:31 PM
Captain Caveman going up in my estimation.....:cb

Me too. Not scared to confront the others about them choosing cash over the wishes of the fans.

down-the-slope
06-03-2012, 11:31 PM
Well done Rodders and more so for a diving yam, Elvis was the star of the show

:agree: Same passion he had as a player that would drag his team over the line when it was not working....would never get a job in the establishment...has too much balls not to keep stum when others are talking rubbish

Billy Whizz
06-03-2012, 11:33 PM
Potter goes on to mention that clubs have had success with youth systems and goes onto mention Hearts and the Old Firm. What a fud

Jonnyboy
06-03-2012, 11:38 PM
Potter goes on to mention that clubs have had success with youth systems and goes onto mention Hearts and the Old Firm. What a fud

I'm no Potter fan but in fairness he did mention Hibs too

down-the-slope
06-03-2012, 11:42 PM
I'm no Potter fan but in fairness he did mention Hibs too


Aye but only after he looked left and got the Tache Poker stare :greengrin

Hibbie_Cameron
06-03-2012, 11:44 PM
Well I certainly feel a lot more confident over the future of Scottish football having listened to the great and the good say their piece tonight :fibber:

Until we rid ourselves of the likes of Doncaster then the game here is going to continue to slide deeper and deeper into the brown stuff.

Every time Pressley raised a great point he was cut off. Doncaster is only interested in Tv money and pandering to the Old Firm

Billy Whizz
06-03-2012, 11:45 PM
I'm no Potter fan but in fairness he did mention Hibs too

I must have missed that bit!

andy1875
06-03-2012, 11:48 PM
Did I hear our Rodney say there was child season tickets available for £1 a game?!?

I was posting about this earlier on and was curious as to why we dont adopt this model. Apologies to the board if this is in fact the case!

I may have misheard mind, it's been a long day :greengrin

monktonharp
06-03-2012, 11:49 PM
Potter was a complete knob,tae the enth degree, an embarasment for Scotland manager. Petrie stood his ground and did well imho, Pressley stood out and spoke like a fan,but wi' a bit mair info than most. Doncaster was a total undivided 1st class fudd.

monktonharp
06-03-2012, 11:51 PM
Did I hear our Rodney say there was child season tickets available for £1 a game?!?

I was posting about this earlier on and was curious as to why we dont adopt this model. Apologies to the board if this is in fact the case!

I may have misheard mind, it's been a long day :greengrinthink he actually said:some kids will get in fur nowt, did'nt quite catch any neck muscle reactions after he said it though:wink:

blackpoolhibs
06-03-2012, 11:53 PM
Every time Pressley raised a great point he was cut off. Doncaster is only interested in Tv money and pandering to the Old Firm

I did not see the programme tonight, but thats been my view on him since he took the job.

Football in Scotland is knackered, we have to start again with a clean slate and every penny divided up evenly, if that means clubs have to take a hit so be it.

Clubs will just have to adjust accordingly, and give the kids a chance. It might not be pretty for a while, and crowds may go down, but its crap now and most clubs are playing to empty stadiums anyway.

More of the same is not an option, and cheating needs to be punished fairly whether its Cowdenbeath or Rangers.

edinburghhibee
06-03-2012, 11:55 PM
Not entirely impressed with that debate, Pressley was the stand out. I just felt Potter, Doncaster and Regan (is that his name?) treated Pressley like a child, shoowing him away when he was making his comments about passing football or expanding the league, all the things the fans have been shouting for. I think surely Doncaster must now take a long hard look in the mirror and decide whether or not he is up to the job of repairing our game.

Pete
06-03-2012, 11:57 PM
The league structure can't change as it will cost £20million.

Apparently.:confused:


As Pressley said: Try thinking about it the other way. That won't suit the TV companies and the old firm though.

konte's one-two
07-03-2012, 12:03 AM
IMO We need to get rid of the SPL,

The SPL is nothing but a self important elitist group, which is ran at a complete biased towards old firm. With a total disregard to everyone else!

the SFA Should have three divisions, youth development, the leagues, and national teams.

Every club has 1 vote, all clubs vote on all issues,

3 leagues of 16 plus a Pyramid league structure introduced

All money split FAIRLY

Play off's in all divisions

Strict financial fair play (only spend what you earn)

Bring this in next season and we have a winner!!!!

hfc rd
07-03-2012, 12:03 AM
Presley was an absolute stand-out in that debate. He spoke and stood up for all us supporters. Doncaster, levien and regan showed their true colours. They don't give a damn, what us fans think or want. I'm sure after watching that debate, they still don't realise that without us fans, Scottish football is dead once and for all. The three of them still think as if we are one day going to turn into a Germany, but we are still a long way away from that, when we struggle with the basics.

Hibbie_Cameron
07-03-2012, 12:04 AM
The league structure can't change as it will cost £20million.

Apparently.:confused:


As Pressley said: Try thinking about it the other way. That won't suit the TV companies and the old firm though.

Thats just another way of saying tv companies will lose out on a couple of Old Firm games.

I mean who cares? Sometimes you need to make sacrifices in order to improve the product.

One other thing: What is Craig Levien going on about with styles of play and developing youth? This is the guy who played the 4-6-0, a formation the likes of San Marino have not even considered. He also plays 1 man up front and defensive, in home qualifiers against minnow nations

Saorsa
07-03-2012, 12:19 AM
with ****wits like Doncaster in charge the game in this country is doomed.

Pete
07-03-2012, 12:22 AM
I think Levien is getting a bit of an unfair roasting. I actually agreed with what he said at the end and what needed to be done.

I think what he was trying to say to Pressley is that sometimes you need to teach players to play in every type of style and situation. Sometimes you need to play a long ball game in certain circumstances and players should be taught how to do this...it doesn't mean that there shouldn't be a basic grounding of a certain style as Pressley suggested.

Pressley has big ideas and some very good ones about style of football etc...but he hasn't been in the game as long as Levien has. Pressley has the freedom right now to be able to do that but in higher pressure circumstances, which Levien knows about, you sometimes have to change your philosophy and players must have the ability to adapt. When we are as far down the line as Holland or Germany at youth development maybe then we can rely on our total football to dig us out of holes but until then we have to be flexible.

I think the only ones to come out of this in a bad light are the SPL and their top-heavy, self-serving, financially-driven policies and structure.

Saorsa
07-03-2012, 12:24 AM
Think I'll stick with my opinion of potter being a complete tit all the same

R'Albin
07-03-2012, 12:27 AM
I think Levien is getting a bit of an unfair roasting.

I don't. I never seen but there is no such thing as Levein getting an unfair roasting :greengrin

Hibercelona
07-03-2012, 12:29 AM
I think Levien is getting a bit of an unfair roasting. I actually agreed with what he said at the end and what needed to be done.

I think what he was trying to say to Pressley is that sometimes you need to teach players to play in every type of style and situation. Sometimes you need to play a long ball game in certain circumstances and players should be taught how to do this...it doesn't mean that there shouldn't be a basic grounding of a certain style as Pressley suggested.

Pressley has big ideas and some very good ones about style of football etc...but he hasn't been in the game as long as Levien has. Pressley has the freedom right now to be able to do that but in higher pressure circumstances, which Levien knows about, you sometimes have to change your philosophy and players must have the ability to adapt. When we are as far down the line as Holland or Germany at youth development maybe then we can rely on our total football to dig us out of holes but until then we have to be flexible.

I think the only ones to come out of this in a bad light are the SPL and their top-heavy, self-serving, financially-driven policies and structure.

Levein completely contradicts himself. He bleats on about how teams need to "win win win" but sets out a losing Scotland formation to ensure we don't take a battering. He's more concerned about his managerial job security than anything else.

Leveins been in the game for far too long and it's his type of thinking that poisons the game.

Pressley was bang on about everything he said.

basehibby
07-03-2012, 01:16 AM
Very much enjoyed the program as it brought together a lot of individuals representing key interests in the Scottish game.

Petrie, sat in between Potter and Pressley, made a solid contribution sticking up for what I hope is a POV of most non-OF club chairmen - well done to him for stressing the importance of sporting integrity looking forward into the future post-rangers debacle, the implication being that no Rangers Newco should be allowed to swan in to dine at the top table, debt free as if nothing had happened :aok:

Star of the show though, was undoubtably Captain Caveman! - spoke with great passion and perception to force through the point that the most important voice of all - that of the fans - has been ignored for far too long. Made sense in his arguments for larger leagues focused on producing better football and better players.

Disagree that Potter was a fud though. Whatever you think of his style he is clearly passionate about his Football, and his stance as devil's advocate recognising the must-win pressures on any football manager brought a healthy dose of reality to the debate.

Thought the Football League guy made a good case for their ongoing contribution at community level and correctly highlighted the problems caused by the lack of ANY exposure and the resultant lack of funding. Couldn't help wondering myself how with all the many channels now on freeview there's no room at all for a weekly lower leagues highlights package (as there used to be ages ago when we only had 4 channels:confused:) Also couldn't help hoping that their TV cash problems might soon be resolved by the presence in their lower division of a certain high profile club from Govan :devil:

If there was a prize fud of the evening then it had to be Doncaster. He may be a whizz at bringing in sponsorship for the SPL etc but showed a total lack of imagination with regard to the big picture going forward for Scottish Football as a whole which is what the program was about afterall.

Sunny1875
07-03-2012, 03:59 AM
I did not see the programme tonight, but thats been my view on him since he took the job.

Football in Scotland is knackered, we have to start again with a clean slate and every penny divided up evenly, if that means clubs have to take a hit so be it.

Clubs will just have to adjust accordingly, and give the kids a chance. It might not be pretty for a while, and The old firm crowds may go down, but its crap now and most clubs are playing to empty stadiums anyway.

More of the same is not an option, and cheating needs to be punished fairly whether its Cowdenbeath or Rangers.


fixed that for you

cocopops1875
07-03-2012, 04:33 AM
I'm assuming the 12 quid a game is worked out at roughly 400 ST renewal -40 free home shirt -117 for free old firm tickets, also free kids ST (if you go to the famous five stand) rod won't be a million miles away, I cant believe anyone would doubt the tash on exact money matters lol

Gatecrasher
07-03-2012, 06:53 AM
After watching that last night I'm more convinced than ever that Scottish football isnt going anywhere, plenty of good points were raised (mostly from Pressley) and were brushed aside by the same boring excuses we have heard over and over. While it seems they make it look as if they are happy to make changes the reality is they care about their self interests too much and preserving the old firm dominance.

truehibernian
07-03-2012, 07:18 AM
After watching that last night I'm more convinced than ever that Scottish football isnt going anywhere, plenty of good points were raised (mostly from Pressley) and were brushed aside by the same boring excuses we have heard over and over. While it seems they make it look as if they are happy to make changes the reality is they care about their self interests too much and preserving the old firm dominance.

Highlighted by Levein talking about players having to have 'all the tools', to adapt if necessary to the ' long ball game' if managers ask them to, in order to win games......yep Craig, you often see Argentina, Spain, Holland, Germany, Brazil and France having to adopt long ball tactics......for me the discussion was devoid of substance.....they looked at the roof in some detail, while ignoring the roots and foundations.

And albeit his contribution was minimal, I didn't think Rod came across to well either. His criticism of Rangers was a la Rod 'veiled', and the season ticket argument came across a bit contrived. Sorry to Rod bash......but for me Pressley and Wotte were the only ones worth listening too.

down the slope
07-03-2012, 07:36 AM
Rod was telling everyone that our ST was £12 !, try multiplying that with the number of games in the SPL and hand over your wad-you will get chased !. He is nothing more than a snake oil peddler and do you know the worst part of it all is that he thinks WE are all stupid enough to swallow it . Like his defence of CC he can use figures to massage any bad news as a good accountant does but it shows you the calibre of the man who would do that to the paying public that the club depend on , a total erse !.

CentreLine
07-03-2012, 08:30 AM
Being a bit creative with the numbers there, I think he whispered it was an average of £12 per game, presumably this is across all STs, i.e. kids ones too which will bring the average way down.

No he said it loud and clear several times over that the "average" cost per game for a season ticket holder will be "£12.50". He's not hiding anything it should be clear to anyone that the figure includes ST's across the board, Adult, Hibs Kidds and Consessions. I thought RP and SP made the most sense and I have no idea what qualifies Jim Traynor to be there. If anything he should have been host

down-the-slope
07-03-2012, 08:37 AM
Rod was telling everyone that our ST was £12 !, try multiplying that with the number of games in the SPL and hand over your wad-you will get chased !. He is nothing more than a snake oil peddler and do you know the worst part of it all is that he thinks WE are all stupid enough to swallow it . Like his defence of CC he can use figures to massage any bad news as a good accountant does but it shows you the calibre of the man who would do that to the paying public that the club depend on , a total erse !.

You convieniently missed the word average...of course if you are a Hibs Kid who's ST is £85 the £12 is not your cost anymore than £12 is the cost for a £420 ST

The drive has been to make it more affordable for family groups over past few years - Similar to the tax system that benefits families but at in effect at the expense of 'Singles'...the argument for football and the country would be that Children are the future................

marinello59
07-03-2012, 08:38 AM
No he said it loud and clear several times over that the "average" cost per game for a season ticket holder will be "£12.50". He's not hiding anything it should be clear to anyone that the figure includes ST's across the board, Adult, Hibs Kidds and Consessions. I thought RP and SP made the most sense and I have no idea what qualifies Jim Traynor to be there. If anything he should have been host
That average figure has been mentioned before by the board and discussed on here several times. I would have thought any regular reader of hibs.net would have been aware of it but obviously not.

truehibernian
07-03-2012, 08:40 AM
No he said it loud and clear several times over that the "average" cost per game for a season ticket holder will be "£12.50". He's not hiding anything it should be clear to anyone that the figure includes ST's across the board, Adult, Hibs Kidds and Consessions. I thought RP and SP made the most sense and I have no idea what qualifies Jim Traynor to be there. If anything he should have been host

The show in my opinion mate was lip service, brought on by one half of the Old Firm's demise. This debate could and should have taken place post Bertie Vogts departure or before and action not words taken.

I would have been intrigued to know Rod's opinion on the recent collaboration between clubs and SFA Academies though.....given Hibs have now cut back on coaching investment, despite this being crucial for the working relationship (and coaching of kids) to work properly. Not just Hibs too to be fair - for me any proper televised debate should take place over few programmes, get coaches and fans views aired, and then a football referendum as such. Fans are being cheated by suits.

killie-hibby
07-03-2012, 08:42 AM
Rod was telling everyone that our ST was £12 !, try multiplying that with the number of games in the SPL and hand over your wad-you will get chased !. He is nothing more than a snake oil peddler and do you know the worst part of it all is that he thinks WE are all stupid enough to swallow it . Like his defence of CC he can use figures to massage any bad news as a good accountant does but it shows you the calibre of the man who would do that to the paying public that the club depend on , a total erse !.


You are more of an "erse" than Rod if you did not realise he was quoting the average cost per game. By the way all you have to do is bide your time,stay alive become an OAP and get in for £8.68p per game. If your point was that £400 plus is too expensive I fully agree with you. Maximum price for any SPL game should IMOP be £15, making an adult season £285

nonshinyfinish
07-03-2012, 09:49 AM
Any idea when it will be on Iplayer?

It's up now: http://www.bbc.co.uk/iplayer/episode/b01d23xt/Scottish_Football_The_Debate/

we are hibs
07-03-2012, 10:05 AM
Looks like the Tache is on the panel :greengrin

well done to petrie for telling it how it is its about time some one had the balls to stand up to rangers :flag::flag::flag:

pentlando
07-03-2012, 10:08 AM
Enjoyed the debate last night, although I feel there were too many influential figures there so the debate was really choppy. Maybe a more structured debate over 3 or 4 weeks would have allowed the areas to be properly debated. As for Pressley, I feel he has some really valid points but seems to think no one can disagree on him. He was frequently cutting folk off mid-sentence and not accepting the point Levein was making that football doesn't just have to be based on slow passing football. He seems good at identifying the problems but doesn't really have any well thought out solutions. He was just shouting "play passing football" and "play young players". Also, whilst he pointed out the fans desire for a larger league, he made no effort to add how clubs should make up any revenue shortfall. His point that a bigger league would make it easier for managers to play young players as there's less pressure doesn't really stand up when we want a more competitive league. At the moment teams have a 11 in 12 chance on an even slate of staying in the SPL, so surely this is the least pressurised league in Europe at the moment?? Why are managers not picking younger players at the moment?

Though Rod Petrie put his point over about Rangers very well, he managed to criticize the running of the club without appearing to have an anti-Rangers vendetta that Peter Lawell seems to ooze whenever he talks on the matter!

Benny Brazil
07-03-2012, 10:17 AM
Watched the second half of the programme last night. Not impressed.
This wasnt a debate. This was a group of people in a room who were asked questions and gave an opinion - no-one was challenged over their opinion, nobody debated over the issues in Scottish football. The only time someone did was when Potter disagreed with SP - but that was then cut short as Rob McLean moved on.

Nothing said last night makes me think that anyone in charge of our game has the balls/willpower/knowhow to change it.

Seveno
07-03-2012, 10:40 AM
I was proud our Rod. He was very dignified in the way that he made his statements on the need for sporting integrity and consideration for the fans over kick-off times.

GGTTH

Hainan Hibs
07-03-2012, 11:27 AM
Utterly priceless when Petrie started advertising season tickets :faf:

FranckSuzy
07-03-2012, 11:29 AM
Utterly priceless when Petrie started advertising season tickets :faf:

:agree: Loved his constant smirking too. Mind you, that was probably more to do with where he was sitting :wink:

The Modfather
07-03-2012, 12:19 PM
Petrie talks a good game, shame when it comes to the crunch he is found wanting. Look no further than him voting for the pound signs rather than the overwhelming opinion of not just Hibs fans, but majority of SPL fans in regards to the size of the League.

Captain Trips
07-03-2012, 12:29 PM
Shows like this p1ss me off, game has been a mess for years but hey lets now see how we can now sort it seeing as it is Rangers in trouble.

"we need a strong Rangers and Celtic" aye so we do. Some amount of utter p1sh being spouted.

Petrie gave a great answer as has been stated on here about do we need a strong Rangers/celtic, without saying no which understandably he couldnt I found that excellent and gives us good insight into how we are thinking. I hope we at least will carry through. His point about Rangers playing with depleted sqaud shows how pi55ed he is at it all.

IWasThere2016
07-03-2012, 12:43 PM
Petrie talks a good game, shame when it comes to the crunch he is found wanting. Look no further than him voting for the pound signs rather than the overwhelming opinion of not just Hibs fans, but majority of SPL fans in regards to the size of the League.

I agree - but he did refer to 3pm k.o. and the ST offer is IMHO a much improved offer to fans. It will be fascinating to see how we (RP) votes if there is a vote of the Current Bunts remaining in the SPL.

Pressley was the best on there IMHO also.

Captain Trips
07-03-2012, 12:59 PM
I agree - but he did refer to 3pm k.o. and the ST offer is IMHO a much improved offer to fans. It will be fascinating to see how we (RP) votes if there is a vote of the Current Bunts remaining in the SPL.

Pressley was the best on there IMHO also.

I have always thought Pressley has came across well in his career, he was good on the show and could be a very good manager in time.

rubber mal
07-03-2012, 01:20 PM
Enjoyed the debate last night, although I feel there were too many influential figures there so the debate was really choppy. Maybe a more structured debate over 3 or 4 weeks would have allowed the areas to be properly debated. As for Pressley, I feel he has some really valid points but seems to think no one can disagree on him. He was frequently cutting folk off mid-sentence and not accepting the point Levein was making that football doesn't just have to be based on slow passing football. He seems good at identifying the problems but doesn't really have any well thought out solutions. He was just shouting "play passing football" and "play young players". Also, whilst he pointed out the fans desire for a larger league, he made no effort to add how clubs should make up any revenue shortfall. His point that a bigger league would make it easier for managers to play young players as there's less pressure doesn't really stand up when we want a more competitive league. At the moment teams have a 11 in 12 chance on an even slate of staying in the SPL, so surely this is the least pressurised league in Europe at the moment?? Why are managers not picking younger players at the moment?

Though Rod Petrie put his point over about Rangers very well, he managed to criticize the running of the club without appearing to have an anti-Rangers vendetta that Peter Lawell seems to ooze whenever he talks on the matter!

I agree with all of this.

I've just read through this whole thread and I'm completely baffled by the love-in with Cave Man. Have people been blinded by the fact that he had a few disagreements with Levein? Yes, he made some valid points, but they generally involved stating the bleeding obvious. Most of what he said was idealistic, naive nonsense and IMO he was quite rightly shot down by Levein. He also seemed to be the only person in the room who disagreed with Stuart Lovell when he said there is a problem in the way kids are coached.

The highlight of the programme was undoubtedly RP's response to the Rangers question - absolute class and not what the arse-kissing weegie media were expecting at all. And as for Jim Traynor - "You only have to look at the money Rangers are owe Dunfermline, Dundee Utd & Hearts to see why Scottish football couldn't survive without them" Eh? That makes absolutely no sense.

Captain Trips
07-03-2012, 01:27 PM
I agree with all of this.

I've just read through this whole thread and I'm completely baffled by the love-in with Cave Man. Have people been blinded by the fact that he had a few disagreements with Levein? Yes, he made some valid points, but they generally involved stating the bleeding obvious. Most of what he said was idealistic, naive nonsense and IMO he was quite rightly shot down by Levein. He also seemed to be the only person in the room who disagreed with Stuart Lovell when he said there is a problem in the way kids are coached.

The highlight of the programme was undoubtedly RP's response to the Rangers question - absolute class and not what the arse-kissing weegie media were expecting at all. And as for Jim Traynor - "You only have to look at the money Rangers are owe Dunfermline, Dundee Utd & Hearts to see why Scottish football couldn't survive without them" Eh? That makes absolutely no sense.

I agree with part in bold, where do you start picking p1sh statements like that apart?

basehibby
07-03-2012, 03:43 PM
I agree with all of this.

I've just read through this whole thread and I'm completely baffled by the love-in with Cave Man. Have people been blinded by the fact that he had a few disagreements with Levein? Yes, he made some valid points, but they generally involved stating the bleeding obvious. Most of what he said was idealistic, naive nonsense and IMO he was quite rightly shot down by Levein. He also seemed to be the only person in the room who disagreed with Stuart Lovell when he said there is a problem in the way kids are coached.

The highlight of the programme was undoubtedly RP's response to the Rangers question - absolute class and not what the arse-kissing weegie media were expecting at all. And as for Jim Traynor - "You only have to look at the money Rangers are owe Dunfermline, Dundee Utd & Hearts to see why Scottish football couldn't survive without them" Eh? That makes absolutely no sense.

I was impressed by Caveman because of the way he pushed the fans' point of view - he was the only panelist to express the widely held fans' frustration at platitudes from suits calling us "the lifeblood of the game" only to completely ignore our wishes time and time again. He then went on to strongly argue the merits of the larger league format which is repeatedly found to be the most popular option on fans forums and surveys. In other words I felt he was speaking for me and the majority of football fans in Scotland and I appreciated his input.

Re Jim Traynor - you are bang on - his inane argument quoted above shows him up for all his bluster as nothing but an Old Firm stooge.

Andy74
07-03-2012, 05:31 PM
Are Regan and Doncaster both English?

beensaidbefore
07-03-2012, 06:13 PM
:agree: what a fud. Why is he head of our league?

If 16 teams isn't enough, make it 18 teams, so we play 34 games, introduce a winter break or revamp the league cup. Old firm, Edinburgh, dundee derbies will be more exciting as there will on be 1 home and 1 away. Bottom goes straight down, next 2 go into a playoff with 2nd and 3rd in the 1st division. That will also generate interest!!!

I agree, but the biggest factor for me in a bigger leauge only playing each team twicee the infirm dont get the chance to take 12 points from each of their rivals. They might beat us home and away in a bigger league, but we would pick up 6 points against i.e Raith, Morton etc. So the gap at the top wouldnt be so big and the possibility of a more competitive league rather than a 2 horse race come chriatmas

2 down, and 2 up possibly through a playoff. Premier league 18 teams, 1st & 2nd div either 12 teams or add extra teams, Spartans, vale of leithen, huntly etc.

Way forward in my opinon.

WhileTheChief..
07-03-2012, 06:18 PM
The bits with RP, Doncaster and Regan are coming up on Sportsound shortly which Chick Young etc discussing the impact of the Rangers situation for anyone interested...

http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/scotland/6407137.stm

rubber mal
07-03-2012, 06:26 PM
I was impressed by Caveman because of the way he pushed the fans' point of view - he was the only panelist to express the widely held fans' frustration at platitudes from suits calling us "the lifeblood of the game" only to completely ignore our wishes time and time again. He then went on to strongly argue the merits of the larger league format which is repeatedly found to be the most popular option on fans forums and surveys. In other words I felt he was speaking for me and the majority of football fans in Scotland and I appreciated his input.

Re Jim Traynor - you are bang on - his inane argument quoted above shows him up for all his bluster as nothing but an Old Firm stooge.

I take your point. I, like you, and like Steven Pressley am equally frustrated by the way the game is run is this country and also by the continual refusal by the blazers to listen to/act upon the views of the fans. I considered some of the views expressed by SP to be stating the obvious, but perhaps that was required as what seems obvious to most does not appear to register with the few that matter.

What I did take exception to though, was SP disagreeing with Stuart Lovell's suggestion that the competition should be taken out of kids' football so that more of an emphasis could be placed on developing technique. I believe that's exactly what's required.

SP then went on to contradict himself by claiming that style should be more important than results in senior football. We'd all like our teams to win by playing attractive football, but only for a small minority is that possible. Ultimately, managers (and to a lesser extent, players) live or die by their results. I am in favour of a larger league, but not if it would mean more meaningless games where managers could piss about playing youngsters who are not yet ready. SP gets far too much credit for bringing through young players, when in fact it has been through sheer necessity, not choice (and in any case, many other managers are doing the same, just without the constant bleating).

beensaidbefore
07-03-2012, 06:33 PM
I take your point. I, like you, and like Steven Pressley am equally frustrated by the way the game is run is this country and also by the continual refusal by the blazers to listen to/act upon the views of the fans. I considered some of the views expressed by SP to be stating the obvious, but perhaps that was required as what seems obvious to most does not appear to register with the few that matter.

What I did take exception to though, was SP disagreeing with Stuart Lovell's suggestion that the competition should be taken out of kids' football so that more of an emphasis could be placed on developing technique. I believe that's exactly what's required.

SP then went on to contradict himself by claiming that style should be more important than results in senior football. We'd all like our teams to win by playing attractive football, but only for a small minority is that possible. Ultimately, managers (and to a lesser extent, players) live or die by their results. I am in favour of a larger league, but not if it would mean more meaningless games where managers could piss about playing youngsters who are not yet ready. SP gets far too much credit for bringing through young players, when in fact it has been through sheer necessity, not choice (and in any case, many other managers are doing the same, just without the constant bleating).

I know what you mean, but i think he was talking about the advantages of having a bigger league, which would in theory, allow the 'middle' clubs to worry less about results and more on playing football when they knew they werent getting relegated. Relegation from an 18 team league would probably involve teams that play in the 1st div at the moment. This would allow your St Mirren, St J, ICT, Hibs etc time to play football without hoofing it up the park and score any old how. Thats how i saw it anyway...

Hibercelona
07-03-2012, 06:40 PM
"You only have to look at the money Rangers are owe Dunfermline, Dundee Utd & Hearts to see why Scottish football couldn't survive without them" Eh? That makes absolutely no sense.

I was ripping my hair out while listening to that ballocks.

Hibercelona
07-03-2012, 06:42 PM
I take your point. I, like you, and like Steven Pressley am equally frustrated by the way the game is run is this country and also by the continual refusal by the blazers to listen to/act upon the views of the fans. I considered some of the views expressed by SP to be stating the obvious, but perhaps that was required as what seems obvious to most does not appear to register with the few that matter.

What I did take exception to though, was SP disagreeing with Stuart Lovell's suggestion that the competition should be taken out of kids' football so that more of an emphasis could be placed on developing technique. I believe that's exactly what's required.

SP then went on to contradict himself by claiming that style should be more important than results in senior football. We'd all like our teams to win by playing attractive football, but only for a small minority is that possible. Ultimately, managers (and to a lesser extent, players) live or die by their results. I am in favour of a larger league, but not if it would mean more meaningless games where managers could piss about playing youngsters who are not yet ready. SP gets far too much credit for bringing through young players, when in fact it has been through sheer necessity, not choice (and in any case, many other managers are doing the same, just without the constant bleating).

Thing is, we aren't successful regardless of what style of football we play, so we may as well play attractive looking football.

Huffing and puffing hasn't exactly taken this league anywhere.

NAE NOOKIE
07-03-2012, 06:47 PM
I know what you mean, but i think he was talking about the advantages of having a bigger league, which would in theory, allow the 'middle' clubs to worry less about results and more on playing football when they knew they werent getting relegated. Relegation from an 18 team league would probably involve teams that play in the 1st div at the moment. This would allow your St Mirren, St J, ICT, Hibs etc time to play football without hoofing it up the park and score any old how. Thats how i saw it anyway...

Thats what I thought too .... In a 16 team league if 2 go down with a 3rd possible in a play off you have less chance of going down than in a 12 team league with 1 going down ...... I think Levein deliberately missed that point.

beensaidbefore
07-03-2012, 06:55 PM
Thats what I thought too .... In a 16 team league if 2 go down with a 3rd possible in a play off you have less chance of going down than in a 12 team league with 1 going down ...... I think Levein deliberately missed that point.

i actually thought Levein was being quite thick, and seemed to be set in his way. He interrupted Pressley, and when Pressley tried to speak he had the cheeck to say let me finish. Pressley was imo talking perfect sense at the point. I also agree with previous posters that he was the one talking the most sense. If we are going to employ Dutch guys who know about football (seeing as they punch well above their weight going on population) to tell us whats wrong, why are we closing our ears when they speak.

blackpoolhibs
07-03-2012, 07:01 PM
i actually thought Levein was being quite thick, and seemed to be set in his way. He interrupted Pressley, and when Pressley tried to speak he had the cheeck to say let me finish. Pressley was imo talking perfect sense at the point. I also agree with previous posters that he was the one talking the most sense. If we are going to employ Dutch guys who know about football (seeing as they punch well above their weight going on population) to tell us whats wrong, why are we closing our ears when they speak.

:agree:

Buffalo75
07-03-2012, 07:26 PM
Any idea when it will be on Iplayer?

http://www.bbc.co.uk/iplayer/episode/b01d23xt/Scottish_Football_The_Debate/

NAE NOOKIE
07-03-2012, 07:41 PM
This debate was mostly about what to do about improving grass roots football and how to qualify for big tournaments, which is fine.

But the current problem with Scottish football is an over reliance on TV money and an unfair distribution of what TV money there is. Not to mention this insane mindset that we need to keep the Old Firm at the top in order for the game to survive.

There was NOTHING said by anybody to address this lunacy.

The only sane future for Scottish Football is to level out the playing field in relation to the quality of player that each club can put on the pitch. The Old Firm dominance of Scottish Football is killing the game and it is a testament to this nations love of football that people still go to watch non OF clubs who have no chance of ever winning the league, which has been the case for decades now.

As far as I am concerned the non OF clubs and those of us who support them should make a concerted effort to change the mindset of supporters ( especially kids ) to one that, if you do not come from Glasgow, and you support an OF club that you are less of a football fan than a guy who supports his local team Or if not his local club at least a club who are not guaranteed to win the league or cup, or both, every other season.

The very reason that our game is in the state its in is BECAUSE of the old firm and the fact that for decades the idiots who run our game from the top of the SFA, SPL and SFL to club owners and chairmen have allowed the fortunes of the game in general and our clubs in particular to be dependant on visits from the OF. They should have recognised years ago that this was a flawed business model which was bound to go badly wrong if one of the OF went under.

The fact of the matter is that Glasgow now has a population of less than 100,000 more than Edinburgh and that in reality the OF should be playing in front of around 30,000 fans at home, with the likes of Hibs and hearts getting 15 to 20 thousand. This doesnt happen because the OF entice fans from following other clubs and their unnatural success depletes crowds elsewhere as a result and we have sat back and allowed this to happen.

Not to mention that a disproportionate amount of money from a deal negotiated by the SPL ( NOT THE OLD FIRM ) is given to two clubs to the detriment of the others, this perpetuating the status quo and perpetuating a downward spiral in our game.

There are non so blind as those who will not see !!!

ancient hibee
07-03-2012, 07:57 PM
Thats what I thought too .... In a 16 team league if 2 go down with a 3rd possible in a play off you have less chance of going down than in a 12 team league with 1 going down ...... I think Levein deliberately missed that point.

If you think that 12.5% (2 out of 16) is less than 8.5% (1 out of 12)can I suggest a course in arithmetic:greengrin



Having watched a good few years of big leagues when about 50% of the games were totally meaningless I think that the idea that this would lead to a higher standard of football is the triumph of hope over experience.

NAE NOOKIE
07-03-2012, 08:34 PM
If you think that 12.5% (2 out of 16) is less than 8.5% (1 out of 12)can I suggest a course in arithmetic:greengrin



Having watched a good few years of big leagues when about 50% of the games were totally meaningless I think that the idea that this would lead to a higher standard of football is the triumph of hope over experience.

Was waiting for that one.

Ye ken fine that percentages aint the point and that you have a better chance of being 1 of 13 than 1 of 11 ask my boss if his 1% pay rise gives him the same money in his pocket than my 1% pay rise .... You can make percentages say anything :greengrin

Dont think you can class 16 as a big league ... Aye some meaningless games, but not enough to make it a disaster if you have play offs. I for one dont want the pressure off I just want to see a more diverse league.

beensaidbefore
07-03-2012, 08:46 PM
This debate was mostly about what to do about improving grass roots football and how to qualify for big tournaments, which is fine.

But the current problem with Scottish football is an over reliance on TV money and an unfair distribution of what TV money there is. Not to mention this insane mindset that we need to keep the Old Firm at the top in order for the game to survive.

There was NOTHING said by anybody to address this lunacy.

The only sane future for Scottish Football is to level out the playing field in relation to the quality of player that each club can put on the pitch. The Old Firm dominance of Scottish Football is killing the game and it is a testament to this nations love of football that people still go to watch non OF clubs who have no chance of ever winning the league, which has been the case for decades now.

As far as I am concerned the non OF clubs and those of us who support them should make a concerted effort to change the mindset of supporters ( especially kids ) to one that, if you do not come from Glasgow, and you support an OF club that you are less of a football fan than a guy who supports his local team Or if not his local club at least a club who are not guaranteed to win the league or cup, or both, every other season.

The very reason that our game is in the state its in is BECAUSE of the old firm and the fact that for decades the idiots who run our game from the top of the SFA, SPL and SFL to club owners and chairmen have allowed the fortunes of the game in general and our clubs in particular to be dependant on visits from the OF. They should have recognised years ago that this was a flawed business model which was bound to go badly wrong if one of the OF went under.

The fact of the matter is that Glasgow now has a population of less than 100,000 more than Edinburgh and that in reality the OF should be playing in front of around 30,000 fans at home, with the likes of Hibs and hearts getting 15 to 20 thousand. This doesnt happen because the OF entice fans from following other clubs and their unnatural success depletes crowds elsewhere as a result and we have sat back and allowed this to happen.

Not to mention that a disproportionate amount of money from a deal negotiated by the SPL ( NOT THE OLD FIRM ) is given to two clubs to the detriment of the others, this perpetuating the status quo and perpetuating a downward spiral in our game.

There are non so blind as those who will not see !!!


I agree. Im not sure how many Primary schools there are in Edin & Lothians, Anyone? But would it not be feasable to give tickets away evry week to kids, say 10 per primary school. Child must be accompanied by an adult paying £15, and if they bring another child that child gets in free. Even if theres 300 schools, x10 x2 = 6000. I know not realistic for every game, but an example of what could be achived. If we filled ER every week, we could afford giving something to the Hibees of tomorrow for free, and at the moment we could well accommodate another few supporters through the turnstyles no matter how we get them.

tamig
07-03-2012, 10:21 PM
Did I hear our Rodney say there was child season tickets available for £1 a game?!?

I was posting about this earlier on and was curious as to why we dont adopt this model. Apologies to the board if this is in fact the case!

I may have misheard mind, it's been a long day :greengrin

That's what my boy's cost this season bud. £19 including the cup top-up.

ScottB
07-03-2012, 10:34 PM
Have to agree with others, I think Rod came across well, making the point about budgets and sporting integrity.

But yeah, it wasn't a debate, aside from Pressley, and to an extent Rod going against the 'we need Rangers and a 12 team league' brigade that were lined up against them.


It's utter madness, everyone accepts Scottish football is in the toilet, that it isn't working, that numerous clubs are in a mess (don't get me started on Traynor's 'logic' there) etc. So how can the solution possibly be to do, well, nothing.

They keep harping on about tv money, yet the report last year reckoned the primary income stream for the clubs is ticket sales. We, the fans, clearly want a bigger league, simple as that. As for £20million out the game blah blah blah well if we end up with no Rangers, presumably this is going to happen anyway, so lets go for it. This myth about needing all these home games against the Old Firm is exactly that. Bottom 6 clubs could well go through a season with only 2 or 3 visits from the Bigot Brigades, and presumably any sensible club will be basing their budget on finishing in the bottom 6 as a base line (apparently Motherwell do this for an example). So this idea that without 4 visits from the Old Firm we'd all be bust is nonsense, since only 4 clubs are getting that every year anyway!


A 16 team league, with a reformated League Cup that has a regional group stage preliminary round, packaged together and sold to the tv companies seems like a fairly easy answer to me. They get their 4 Old Firm matches, 4 Edinburgh derbies, and in fact, a whole host of other derbies. Do Sky care whether their 4 Old Firm matches are in the league, the cup or whatever? I doubt it, plus the clubs get the extra games they've lost. Job done.

rubber mal
07-03-2012, 10:59 PM
I know what you mean, but i think he was talking about the advantages of having a bigger league, which would in theory, allow the 'middle' clubs to worry less about results and more on playing football when they knew they werent getting relegated. Relegation from an 18 team league would probably involve teams that play in the 1st div at the moment. This would allow your St Mirren, St J, ICT, Hibs etc time to play football without hoofing it up the park and score any old how. Thats how i saw it anyway...

So you want a less competitive league with more meaningless games? More clubs contenting themselves with mid-table mediocrity?

TrickyNicky
07-03-2012, 11:25 PM
I was trying to find a link to watch it but to no avail - iplayer BBC doesn't do overseas unfortunately, however during my search I happened upon a kickback thread regarding " The Debate " - quite interesting actually.

http://www.hmfckickback.co.uk/index.php?/topic/108079-scottish-football-the-debate/


It starts with the usual Jambo guff, a sprinkling of praise for Petrie in some cases, as well as a " we need to look at ourselves and the mess we're in ", a hatred of Levein at times - it was like visiting a parallel universe where some Hearts fans spoke sense at times!

Admins, can we put it in the vault ??

monktonharp
07-03-2012, 11:33 PM
This debate was mostly about what to do about improving grass roots football and how to qualify for big tournaments, which is fine.

But the current problem with Scottish football is an over reliance on TV money and an unfair distribution of what TV money there is. Not to mention this insane mindset that we need to keep the Old Firm at the top in order for the game to survive.

There was NOTHING said by anybody to address this lunacy.

The only sane future for Scottish Football is to level out the playing field in relation to the quality of player that each club can put on the pitch. The Old Firm dominance of Scottish Football is killing the game and it is a testament to this nations love of football that people still go to watch non OF clubs who have no chance of ever winning the league, which has been the case for decades now.

As far as I am concerned the non OF clubs and those of us who support them should make a concerted effort to change the mindset of supporters ( especially kids ) to one that, if you do not come from Glasgow, and you support an OF club that you are less of a football fan than a guy who supports his local team Or if not his local club at least a club who are not guaranteed to win the league or cup, or both, every other season.

The very reason that our game is in the state its in is BECAUSE of the old firm and the fact that for decades the idiots who run our game from the top of the SFA, SPL and SFL to club owners and chairmen have allowed the fortunes of the game in general and our clubs in particular to be dependant on visits from the OF. They should have recognised years ago that this was a flawed business model which was bound to go badly wrong if one of the OF went under.

The fact of the matter is that Glasgow now has a population of less than 100,000 more than Edinburgh and that in reality the OF should be playing in front of around 30,000 fans at home, with the likes of Hibs and hearts getting 15 to 20 thousand. This doesnt happen because the OF entice fans from following other clubs and their unnatural success depletes crowds elsewhere as a result and we have sat back and allowed this to happen.

Not to mention that a disproportionate amount of money from a deal negotiated by the SPL ( NOT THE OLD FIRM ) is given to two clubs to the detriment of the others, this perpetuating the status quo and perpetuating a downward spiral in our game.

There are non so blind as those who will not see !!!:agree:absolutely spot on. well said Bov:aok:I'm maybe not as Literate, but tried on a few occasions to get a similar point over, on here. there are far too many so called fans in Scotland,that "follow" the OF.when I say follow, (not neccessarily meaning RFC) I mean the ones that have never been to Glasgow,never mind Ibroke or Celtic pARK, yet they like to jibe/slag other fans when they are beaten by the OF, and it's been in the same pub on telly etc.hundreds of village pubs/clubs,towns around Scotland are awash with this Ideal, I should know. Iwas brought up in one , a very few miles from ER. Imagine what it's like in the Dunfermlines,Killies,Dumbartons,and Dundees of this Scottish fitba' world.

monktonharp
07-03-2012, 11:38 PM
I was trying to find a link to watch it but to no avail - iplayer BBC doesn't do overseas unfortunately, however during my search I happened upon a kickback thread regarding " The Debate " - quite interesting actually.

http://www.hmfckickback.co.uk/index.php?/topic/108079-scottish-football-the-debate/


It starts with the usual Jambo guff, a sprinkling of praise for Petrie in some cases, as well as a " we need to look at ourselves and the mess we're in ", a hatred of Levein at times - it was like visiting a parallel universe where some Hearts fans spoke sense at times!

Admins, can we put it in the vault ??did you ever read Superman comics? you've just visited Bizzaro Universe.dc

TrickyNicky
07-03-2012, 11:42 PM
did you ever read Superman comics? you've just visited Bizzaro Universe.dc

No, I didn't - I practiced keepieuppies and did push-ups !

This is something I never thought I'd see!!

Courtesy of h-e-a-r-t-s on kickback



So to some up Neil Doncaster's position, "yes we should listen to the fans, then we should ignore them and do what we've always done"

To some up Rod Petrie, "Rangers and all the other clubs can GTF if they don't live within their means"

Pressley (surprisingly I must say), "the fans are the life blood of the game and the fans demand 3pm on a Saturday and Scottish youth...TV deal GTF"

Didn't expect to be a Petrie and and Pressley fan after tonight but I jolly well am :blink:

NOLA
08-03-2012, 01:24 AM
so which team does stuart Lovell's boy play for then? :hmmm:

SMAXXA
08-03-2012, 08:25 AM
I watched this on catch up last night and my general feeling was one of frustration more than anything. It felt rushed and they didn't focus on any topic for long enough and as for the fact it was billed as a debate, I didn't feel there was much debating going on at all. To me all we got was certain figures in scottish football giving their opinion on things, rather than debate with each other to give some substance and rational to why they feel like this and to have some debate around this.

Some really valid points raised and I would like to see them explored further in a clear and transparent way that us fans can gain an insight into.

As usual a slap dash tick in the box attempt at doing something with real promise and potential imo.

Seveno
08-03-2012, 01:31 PM
I wrote to the Board to congratukate the Chairman on what he said about integrity in sport and his support for the fans over the constant changing of kick-off times to suit TV.

Fyfe Hyland replied on the latter subject :

The issue over KO times is something we will continue to work with broadcasters on. We did not vote for the new tv deal and want consistency and fairness for supporters moving forward.

Barney McGrew
08-03-2012, 01:34 PM
We did not vote for the new tv deal and want consistency and fairness for supporters moving forward.

That's pretty interesting. So if the SPL voting rights remain the same does that mean on their 11-1 scale that we were the only ones against it?

PeeJay
08-03-2012, 01:45 PM
I managed to watch this through iPlayer - how come there were no representative of the OF in the studio to discuss the state of the Scottish game? The cynic in me thinks: they don't give a xxxx what the other clubs and the governing bodies debate. Pre-recorded soundbites from Lennon/Smith hardly count, do they?

JimBHibees
08-03-2012, 02:08 PM
I managed to watch this through iPlayer - how come there were no representative of the OF in the studio to discuss the state of the Scottish game? The cynic in me thinks: they don't give a xxxx what the other clubs and the governing bodies debate. Pre-recorded soundbites from Lennon/Smith hardly count, do they?

What do you mean I thought Jim Traynor was part of the panel? :greengrin

SquashedFrogg
08-03-2012, 04:49 PM
so which team does stuart Lovell's boy play for then? :hmmm:

Currie Star. We thumped them 15-0 last year in a friendly. (of course it's not about the winning :wink:)

SquashedFrogg
08-03-2012, 04:57 PM
No, I didn't - I practiced keepieuppies and did push-ups !

This is something I never thought I'd see!!

Courtesy of h-e-a-r-t-s on kickback



So to some up Neil Doncaster's position, "yes we should listen to the fans, then we should ignore them and do what we've always done"

To some up Rod Petrie, "Rangers and all the other clubs can GTF if they don't live within their means"

Pressley (surprisingly I must say), "the fans are the life blood of the game and the fans demand 3pm on a Saturday and Scottish youth...TV deal GTF"

Didn't expect to be a Petrie and and Pressley fan after tonight but I jolly well am :blink:

Thought they both came across well.

Televised matches should be reduced to cup finals, big semi-finals, and maybe a couple of derby/important matches and that's all. Maybe 6 live games a season.

And bring back Sportscene on a Saturday night. And the pink paper!!

And standing, and the slope, and 2 subs, and half-time score boards that work by a pulley system....

s.a.m
08-03-2012, 05:24 PM
Thought they both came across well.

Televised matches should be reduced to cup finals, big semi-finals, and maybe a couple of derby/important matches and that's all. Maybe 6 live games a season.

And bring back Sportscene on a Saturday night. And the pink paper!!

And standing, and the slope, and 2 subs, and half-time score boards that work by a pulley system....

We had a TV deal a while back (maybe 15 years?) which inolved a Saturday night highlights package, with all of the goals, and extended highlights on two games. There were also a small number of live games - which might have been about the 6 you suggest. That would do me fine. Since the highlights got shifted to silly times, I don't know when I last watched a highlights programme. And as a result I've never been more out of touch with what's happening in the SPL.

I do actually look back with growing feeling of nostalgia to the days of two subs, and to the days when it wasn't quite as easy for bigger clubs to exploit the massive imbalance in resources. It also fair added to the intrigue of a match, and to the team selection.
And I'm not joking.

ancient hibee
08-03-2012, 06:00 PM
That's pretty interesting. So if the SPL voting rights remain the same does that mean on their 11-1 scale that we were the only ones against it?


Different voting strutures for different topics.I think the TV deal is either 9-3 or 8-4.

SquashedFrogg
08-03-2012, 06:14 PM
We had a TV deal a while back (maybe 15 years?) which inolved a Saturday night highlights package, with all of the goals, and extended highlights on two games. There were also a small number of live games - which might have been about the 6 you suggest. That would do me fine. Since the highlights got shifted to silly times, I don't know when I last watched a highlights programme. And as a result I've never been more out of touch with what's happening in the SPL.

I do actually look back with growing feeling of nostalgia to the days of two subs, and to the days when it wasn't quite as easy for bigger clubs to exploit the massive imbalance in resources. It also fair added to the intrigue of a match, and to the team selection.
And I'm not joking.

Last week was the first time I've watched sportscene in yonks and that was purely to listen to Pat Fenlon. I still couldn't tell you what night it was on.

In 'the good old days' you watched the match (at a decent price), bought a pink later on and read about all the 3pm matches on that Saturday then finished the day watching the highlights that night. Basically, throughout the entire Saturday, everyone was consumed entirely in the 'Premier League'.

You then spent the next 6 days looking forward to the next Saturday.

Now, matches span the entire weekend - a game here, a game there, then you wait until 2 or 3 days later to see any highlights. By that time you've forgotten what's happened in half the games.

The whole product is diluted down and people start to lose interest.

As for 2 subs, I was kind of joking but you're right. The introduction of increased subs benefits the teams with higher budgets. Reverting back to 2 subs (up to manager if they want a goalie or not) would decrease the bigger clubs advantage. IMO

beensaidbefore
09-03-2012, 07:10 PM
So you want a less competitive league with more meaningless games? More clubs contenting themselves with mid-table mediocrity?

or it could be seen as a competitive league which provided an atmosphere conducive with producing good footballers, thus improving the overall standard of the game in Scotland, which should benefit not only the national team but all the league clubs. The problem at the moment is when a young laddie ccomes through and has been told pass pass pass at under-19, gets into the first team and told too hoof it up the park. sensless. youth teams should play same as first team so they can slot in when required and to give them valuable experience they can take back to improve at youth level until they become established. spoony, galbraith, and hanlon are a few that could have done with that instead of dogs abuse from the crowd.

killie-hibby
09-03-2012, 07:15 PM
Thought they both came across well.

Televised matches should be reduced to cup finals, big semi-finals, and maybe a couple of derby/important matches and that's all. Maybe 6 live games a season.

And bring back Sportscene on a Saturday night. And the pink paper!!

And standing, and the slope, and 2 subs, and half-time score boards that work by a pulley system....




You forgot to mention Macaroon Bars.

Dan Sarf
09-03-2012, 07:30 PM
Thought they both came across well.

Televised matches should be reduced to cup finals, big semi-finals, and maybe a couple of derby/important matches and that's all. Maybe 6 live games a season.

And bring back Sportscene on a Saturday night. And the pink paper!!

And standing, and the slope, and 2 subs, and half-time score boards that work by a pulley system....

The PINK paper!!! Never bought it. I always bought the Green (was it the Dispatch?)

WindyMiller
09-03-2012, 07:41 PM
The PINK paper!!! Never bought it. I always bought the Green (was it the Dispatch?)


:agree:

R.s. McColls at Colinton Mains on the way home from Easter Road.:aok:

killie-hibby
09-03-2012, 07:59 PM
:agree:

R.s. McColls at Colinton Mains on the way home from Easter Road.:aok:


Aye,and standing outside Currys television shop in Leith St with two hundred other folk watching the results come through the teleprinter.

killie-hibby
09-03-2012, 08:05 PM
Aye,and standing outside Currys television shop in Leith St with two hundred other folk watching the results come through the teleprinter.


Must add that the teleprinter always looked clearer on the Sobell 17 inch deluxe model.:violin:

Saorsa
09-03-2012, 08:10 PM
You forgot to mention Macaroon Bars.& spearmint chewing gum :agree:

Dashing Bob S
09-03-2012, 08:22 PM
No, I didn't - I practiced keepieuppies and did push-ups !

This is something I never thought I'd see!!

Courtesy of h-e-a-r-t-s on kickback



So to some up Neil Doncaster's position, "yes we should listen to the fans, then we should ignore them and do what we've always done"

To some up Rod Petrie, "Rangers and all the other clubs can GTF if they don't live within their means"

Pressley (surprisingly I must say), "the fans are the life blood of the game and the fans demand 3pm on a Saturday and Scottish youth...TV deal GTF"

Didn't expect to be a Petrie and and Pressley fan after tonight but I jolly well am :blink:

LTYF.

Sorry, that's just my suspicious mind talking.

tamig
09-03-2012, 09:12 PM
& spearmint chewing gum :agree:

"20p the Macaroon and the chewing gu-um.":agree:

ancient hibee
09-03-2012, 09:37 PM
Ten bob now to buy the News! It was only six bob to see us thrash Real Madrid.

hfc rd
09-03-2012, 11:48 PM
Apologies if already posted, here is a link to all the guys who haven't watched the programme or if you want to watch it again.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/iplayer/episode/b01d23xt/Scottish_Football_The_Debate/