A Match For Europe

[BroxburnHibee]

Anyone watching this?

Some stunning points being made about the state of our game - embarrassing tbh.

When someone of the quality of Frank De Boer says the most important thing in Scottish Football is being aggressive rather than technical ability, that says a lot!

Really interesting stuff.

[HiBremian]

Watching it here, a few hundred yards from Werder Bremen's ground. The programme made the point that Werder have something like 40 teams covering all ages. If you go for a walk around the stadium, you can see just how many pitches and other community facilities there are. Even my neighbour's 1 year old kid goes there every Friday for "baby sport". Great setup.

[frazeHFC]

Got it on record. The preview looked interesting so will give it a watch. :agree:

[bingo70]

I was fairly sceptical about mcleish's report but listening to them speaking is giving me some more hope that I might be wrong.

Long overdue but hopefully we're finally learning our lessons

[Mon Dieu4]

Nothing in it most people didn't know already in my opinion, all the powers that be are like politicians and talk a good game but that's about it, needs more of an overhaul the sfa from top to bottom but that Will never happen

[Gatecrasher]

It was better than I thought it was going to be and it's good to hear about a lot of the hard work going on behind the scenes from clubs a cross the country. It was also interesting to hear what foreign players said about our league

I am always interested in what Doncaster has to say as following points from players, managers and chairman from different clubs supporting the idea of a bigger league, he just trots out with the usual pish we have all heard before. Progressive my arse.

[BroxburnHibee]

Nothing in it most people didn't know already in my opinion, all the powers that be are like politicians and talk a good game but that's about it, needs more of an overhaul the sfa from top to bottom but that Will never happen

Its not just the SFA thats the problem though and therin lies a big chunk of the problem.

Unless they can understand that every part of the game has to play its part in restructuring the whole system then your right it will never happen.

They have to act though - the signs are there that the game is dying - ignore it and they wont have a league/system to run

[zlatan]

Nothing in it most people didn't know already in my opinion, all the powers that be are like politicians and talk a good game but that's about it, needs more of an overhaul the sfa from top to bottom but that Will never happen

Yup.

What's the point giving someone like Yorkston a voice in this when today he's saying he'll happily bend over backwards to keep Rangers in the SPL despite all their cheating? We have a half decent national team just now because they're all buggering off to England at the right age to develop, the real problem Scottish football faces right now is the complete apathy both the players and fans have for the league system right now. This is bringing less and less money in for clubs to be able to properly nurture and keep the youth players.

[HiBremian]

Nothing in it most people didn't know already in my opinion, all the powers that be are like politicians and talk a good game but that's about it, needs more of an overhaul the sfa from top to bottom but that Will never happen

Have to agree. They knew what the problems were 20 years ago - immediate success more important than youth/skills development, 12 team league purely for financial reasons but causing regular panic amongst coaches etc etc. Today we still have a 12 team league, a team that cheated its way to success and another struggling to pay over-inflated wages. The culture reflects the people who own the game.

One honorable exception seems to be Falkirk FC:agree:

[BroxburnHibee]

It was better than I thought it was going to be and it's good to hear about a lot of the hard work going on behind the scenes from clubs a cross the country. It was also interesting to hear what foreign players said about our league

I am always interested in what Doncaster has to say as following points from players, managers and chairman from different clubs supporting the idea of a bigger league, he just trots out with the usual pish we have all heard before. Progressive my arse.

Exactly - they keep trotting out this 'cant afford to lose X' - how much has it lost since the days of the big money Sky deals I wonder? Is the league still there?

Same old story - money, money, money.

How hard is it to understand that a stronger more attractive league setup will bring the rewards - we are not gonna get that with the status quo.

[Mon Dieu4]

None of the other countries that have implemented it have such a draconian governing body as ours, it is purely geared up for two teams and money

i bet you Will hear better ideas from the public tomorrow night in the debate than anything they come out with

these countries also had proper football men like Beckenbaur and Cruyff helping, we get Neil and Stuart!!!

[Jack]

Yup.

What's the point giving someone like Yorkston a voice in this when today he's saying he'll happily bend over backwards to keep Rangers in the SPL despite all their cheating? We have a half decent national team just now because they're all buggering off to England at the right age to develop, the real problem Scottish football faces right now is the complete apathy both the players and fans have for the league system right now. This is bringing less and less money in for clubs to be able to properly nurture and keep the youth players.

I would agree with you to a point but Yorkston also has a point in that if after all due legal process they come out of administration soon there's very little anyone else can do. We all know that's there's very much more to it though.

I thought it was a well considered piece.

That and he probably isn't that keen to receive death threats.

[NAE NOOKIE]

Some interesting stuff.

The trouble is it is the same interesting stuff as 20 years ago. The ideas were pretty well the same, the programme should have been called ' why didnt we listen 20 years ago '

The most cutting remark was by the current Falkirk manager who said that there is too much fear in a small league, so how can you give young players a chance, or words to that affect.

16 team league with an 8 / 8 split and 3 down .... you get all the big TV matches with more variety and less chance of going down.

As usual in all of their navel gazing they forgot about the bloody fans. They keep telling us what we need and forget to ask us what we want !

[Kato]

Watching it here, a few hundred yards from Werder Bremen's ground. The programme made the point that Werder have something like 40 teams covering all ages. If you go for a walk around the stadium, you can see just how many pitches and other community facilities there are. Even my neighbour's 1 year old kid goes there every Friday for "baby sport". Great setup.

Ajax do something similar for all club members. Over the years they have built up very good facilities. In Scotland we have one "initiative" after another but zero facilities. The SFA et all will talk all day about the "initiatives" but shrug their shoulders and change the subject when the question of real facilities comes up. Without the facilities all the ten year plans and "initiatives" in the world won't improve our game. But God forbid Rangers actually having to pay tax or be punished for not doing so.

[Brebners Bookie]

Some interesting stuff.

The trouble is it is the same interesting stuff as 20 years ago. The ideas were pretty well the same, the programme should have been called ' why didnt we listen 20 years ago '

The most cutting remark was by the current Falkirk manager who said that there is too much fear in a small league, so how can you give young players a chance, or words to that affect.

16 team league with an 8 / 8 split and 3 down .... you get all the big TV matches with more variety and less chance of going down.

As usual in all of their navel gazing they forgot about the bloody fans. They keep telling us what we need and forget to ask us what we want !


So there's less chance of relegation in a 16 team league with 3 relegated than a 12 team league with 1 relegated?

The problem with a small league isn't the fear of relegation hampering expression and youth development, that happens in every league and always will do. The problem is the repetitiveness of playing the same 11 teams over and over just to ensure the TV gets 4 OF matches a season.

[Andy74]

Agree that this is the same stuff we've been saying for years.

We need a huge overhaul of sports facilities across the country though and it would be useful if we didn't have teams of neds who ruin and rip part anything we do get round to upgrading.

[blackpoolhibs]

I thought it was a good programme, although it only told us what we already knew. It did ask the questions though that needed asked, and while everyone said change was needed, Doncaster still was talking about money, and how we'd lose £20m if a 16 team league was implimented.

Now i dont know if that figure is right, but we as a league must all be losing money every week/month/year. What we have NOW is not working, and is near to death.

Links with schools, and proper coaching is very important, and one of the ways forward, and imo scrapping the 12 team league is a must too.

We will have to go backwards before we can go forward, yet i just dont think we as a league have the balls to do it.

[Andy74]

I thought it was a good programme, although it only told us what we already knew. It did ask the questions though that needed asked, and while everyone said change was needed, Doncaster still was talking about money, and how we'd lose £20m if a 16 team league was implimented.

Now i dont know if that figure is right, but we as a league must all be losing money every week/month/year. What we have NOW is not working, and is near to death.

Links with schools, and proper coaching is very important, and one of the ways forward, and imo scrapping the 12 team league is a must too.

We will have to go backwards before we can go forward, yet i just dont think we as a league have the balls to do it.

We don't. I've never heard anyone within football get past the argument yet that we would all lose money if changes were made. Said with a straight face too as if we are all benefiting from that money just now.

I'm not sure they are getting the concept that we have now is not working.

[BroxburnHibee]

Any league that includes a split is ridiculous IMO

[down the slope]

Doncaster trotted out the old line that the game would lose 20 million if we had a bigger league ! , he needs to account for that sum as i don't think it would be anywhere near that figure . It's like a cinema manager saying that we know that the customer won't like this but we will only be showing repeats as WE make more money out of it !, the game is dying on it's feet and without the introduction of youngsters it can only get worse, just take a look at our team and what the fear factor has done for playing young players .

[JimBHibees]

It is all about facilities IMO. Get decent sporting facilities and kids will be able to play the game more on decent surfaces. There needs to be more and more of the latest artificial surfaces built across the country so that loads of games and training sessions can take place at all times of the day and the surface is still very good.

If there was any forward thinking in this country we wouldnt have wasted money building a new Hampden. There is no need for that stadium in a country this small when you have a 50 and 60k capacity stadium in Glasgow and a far superior 67k stadium in Edinburgh. You also have now have 2 20k stadiums in Edinburgh and Aberdeen. It was nothing more than a waste of time and money and the resources utilised in it should have been used to build numerous indoor facilities across the country which could have been used in inclement weather. In saying that it is in the past now.

I can remember playing in a football tour on the Dutch / German border area in the early 90s and every tiny village had at least one floodlit full size pitch. It would be good if the new Dutch Performance Director is given the proper support and resources to truly revolutionise football in this country as it is well overdue.

[hibstag]

the problem is deep rooted within the current system as it is keen to maintain the status quo and avoid the OF being unable to call the shots.Also I feel they dont sell the game enough

last week the media was wetting themselves that the title may be decided at the next old firm game (for the ever present non footballing reasons) other leagues thrive on the box office of such matches whilst we are activlely trying to avoid it. The TV deal is almost completely set up to cover the Old firm away matches games like the 'the new firm' derby or relegation battles (us v Dunfy a few weeks ago) that would make good viewing for the neutral observer are never shown.

we are told that the game needs a strong OF to survive due to the revenue they 'provide us with' ibut no mention is made of the cost of promoting these two as apposed to the SPL SFL as a whole package


next season for example it will be St Johnstone v Rangers 2012 on ESPN at 12.15 whilst one of the 3 o clock KO will be the the Highland Derby in Inverness what game would you rather watch ....and on sunday on SKY it will be ST Mirren V Celtc

[Hibby Bairn]

For me the best part was the interview with the Youth Coach at Feyenoord. He spoke about having no interest in winning games when the players were young and not even about the team. It was all about each player being able to develop his or her technical skills even if that meant teams they were playing in not winning. Eventually these skills build into a team where ALL of the players are technically and tactically more developed and therefore you create much better teams.

I think facilities are part of this but the main issue is adult and club attitude to what we are trying to achieve COLLECTIVELY. I think the German guy said something similar. Everyone worked together for the overall good of the country.

[Franck is God]

I watched this last night and thought most was just common sense that everyone knows but does nothing about.

Scottish football unfortunately is based around providing a platform for two clubs to be successful, most other countries are the same to an extent as well but in Scotland the difference between 2nd & 3rd place is huge in points and finances.

For me one of the biggest problems is the number of old firm fans that travel from all round Scotland to support their teams, in one way I have respect for the fact that they make the effort but in another way by choosing to glory hunt (not in all cases but most) and ignoring their local side they continue to make the gap even bigger.

Apathy amongst fans is at an all time high and the number of reasons used to avoid attending games is way too high, maybe it is a stupid loyalty but the only things that stop me going to a game are whether I can afford to go or physically can't make it. It is far too expensive and I know that it's mugs like me that go every week regardless of cost don't help things but like others its just what I do at the weekend.

I can see the fear for the SPL clubs involved every time a 16 or 18 team league is mentioned, fans say that's what they want but they also say they want cheaper tickets yet every time a team reduces prices not that many more turn up so what are they meant to do? The cost of relegation for clubs the size of Hibs could be catastrophic.

The way I see it is we need to have fewer senior clubs in Scotland, two leagues of 16 max with a regional system below it with relegation and promotion from and to all levels.
A combined sponsorhip of the league and clubs with at least 50% of the money split evenly between the clubs and by that I mean all 32 teams. The remainder can be based on league position 1-32.
Every side in the league system should by league rules have to have a youth system and be part of a 'colt' league which is primarily for players up to the age of 21 but also include a number of overage players that are coming back from injuries or in need of games.
I would impose a salary cap based on the revenue of the league not individual clubs and perhaps allow for a 'star' player to break the cap like in the MLS but only in the hope that they add respect and value to the league like Beckham or Henry.
I would switch back to the old system of combining gate receipts for the league and distributing evenly which would lead to a fixed price system where prices could be capped.

I could probably list many more things I would look at changing but the main things are to provide a system where clubs can prosper by creating their own players and not be punished by showing some ambition.

Creating a competetiveness surely must be high on the list too, every side should start the season with a chance to win, this kind of league over time will attract fans and anything that attracts fans will therefore attract further investment and as long as it is correctly distributed will make the product better for everyone.

[JIm]

For me the best part was the interview with the Youth Coach at Feyenoord. He spoke about having no interest in winning games when the players were young and not even about the team. It was all about each player being able to develop his or her technical skills even if that meant teams they were playing in not winning. Eventually these skills build into a team where ALL of the players are technically and tactically more developed and therefore you create much better teams.

I think facilities are part of this but the main issue is adult and club attitude to what we are trying to achieve COLLECTIVELY. I think the German guy said something similar. Everyone worked together for the overall good of the country.

Boom, nail on head. Coaches and parents need to be educated about long term player development as opposed to short term i.e winning matches.

Could talk all day on the subject but i'll just get myself wound up. Think its easy to and slag all the national bodies, politicians etc cause there is alot of good work going on, major problem though is coaches with a win at all cost mentality and parents trying to fulfil their dreams in their childrens footsteps.

[12AlbionPlace]

I didn't see it but I'll catch it on Iplayer.

In my opinion we haven't got things sorted at youth level yet, even at seven-a-side level there is a desire to win matches above all else which can hinder the development of players. Moving up to eleven-a-side, in this area for example there will always be large teams who are always looking to take players from other clubs. Is this being done to develop the players or just to increase their chances of winning trophies. Ultimately the solution is to remove the competitive element and just let the kids enjoy the game and develop their skills, unfortunately I think Scotland as a nation won't tolerate such a situation. I'm not looking to tar everyone with the same brush and there are some clubs out there encouraging kids to play the game properly but ultimately they will be steamrollered by bigger and more aggressive teams.

[Tha Cabbage Kid]

is there a way of watching this on the internet? as im not in the country booo hoooo!!!