the state of Scottish football

[King Paddy]

Yes we can can sit back and laugh at the situation Glasgow Rangers find themselves in
Admin, 11 players given their jotters etc etc. Hearts spending beyond there means
and Livingston buying a leauge cup. Scottish football is in the worst state i can ever
remember.
The total lack of investment in youth has come back to bite us big time and a rethink into the
state of scottish football is badly overdue. I would introduce wage caping, clubs having to
pay wages within their means. It works in the states so why not overhere?. I would also
propose a 4 non scottish player rule, rather than the wage thiefs that come in their droves
from all parts of the globe. And let's increase the size of the spl to 14 or 16 clubs
i'm fed up playing St.Jonstone. St.Mirrin 4 times a season, a bit variety would hopefully
bring back a freshness to the staleness that exists within our present setup. I don't
presume to no all the answers to our problems but gloating at the financial set up of
The likes of Rangers and Hearts is merely papering over the cracks that we all could
find ourselves in.

[PatHead]

Yes we can can sit back and laugh at the situation Glasgow Rangers find themselves in
Admin, 11 players given their jotters etc etc. Hearts spending beyond there means
and Livingston buying a leauge cup. Scottish football is in the worst state i can ever
remember.
The total lack of investment in youth has come back to bite us big time and a rethink into the
state of scottish football is badly overdue. I would introduce wage caping, clubs having to
pay wages within their means. It works in the states so why not overhere?. I would also
propose a 4 non scottish player rule, rather than the wage thiefs that come in their droves
from all parts of the globe. And let's increase the size of the spl to 14 or 16 clubs
i'm fed up playing St.Jonstone. St.Mirrin 4 times a season, a bit variety would hopefully
bring back a freshness to the staleness that exists within our present setup. I don't
presume to no all the answers to our problems but gloating at the financial set up of
The likes of Rangers and Hearts is merely papering over the cracks that we all could
find ourselves in.

Lack of a reserve league is the biggest obstacle. Players have no-where to go after U19s. As has been commented on a lot of posts SFA/SPL have a real chance to revolutionise the game in this country.

[ScottB]

In all honesty, I don't think we can do anything, even if we all start focusing on nothing but youth, League One level clubs in England will be able to cherry pick them, never mind the Championship and EPL clubs that will also be doing it. Of course in the long run getting talented Scottish kids out of our booze obsessed unprofessional league and into the English set up (think Fletcher, Adam et all) will probably be better for the national team.

Regardless of what we do, until the English leagues reach a similar tipping point and return to a level of normality, the SPL is doomed to be a proving ground for players to head there. What happens next will determine whether anyone continues to bother turning up or not really.

[Forza Fred]

There's a salary cap imposed on all football codes out here - to ensure competitiveness.

However when it comes to fitba, cashed up Asian clubs simply wave their cheque book and the targeted players are offski - mostly to do a Deeks it must be said, but not all and the lure of the dollar or yen or whatever makes them go.

At international level Australia is ranked I think number 2 in Asia but when it comes to the Asian championship league (the equivalent of your European Championship) Aussie club sides cannot compete well - as naturally their Asian counterparts have much more money and can attract better players.

I think that is the problem with imposing a salary cap in Scotland - what it would mean would be that broadly speaking, when it came to European competition we would eventually be akin to the League of Ireland when it came to competing against the rest of Europe.

Short term people would like to see the chamionships and cups going in several different directions, but ultimately any players worth their salt would be off - even earlier than now, and teh SPL would possibly be not much more than a glorified youth league.

I don't know if there IS an answer..the EPL is basically followed worldwide, and tv resources are concentrated there - the rest of us unfortunately fight for the scraps.

[IWasThere2016]

There needs to be change - and change that is fan/game-focussed and not Balance Sheet-focussed.

League re-construction (to remove repetitive fixtures is a must)

Greater competition (to stimulate interest/attendances is a must)

Reserve football (to create. 'breeding ground'beyond 19 is required)

I like the idea of salary/squad no caps, and the Gers disappearing would help also IMHO as the next generation will hopefully support other Scottish teams (of which we have too many!)

But something must be done. Do nothing = death.

[Forza Fred]

I thnik if a' "salary cap'' is imposed per se, then the obvious criticism will be levelled that instead of attempting to ""ïmprove" clubs other than the old firm, that what we are attempting to do is simply '' penalise'' them for having the financial clout other clubs would ALL like to have.

I personally think that a limit on squad numbers is one thing that could be introduced, together with the reintroduction of a reserve league.

It could be mandatory for x number of players under 20 to be in the reserve team, that way the youngsters would get the benefit of playing with/against seasoned pros and hopefully learn from them as they go..instead of sometimes being seen as 'stars'in the under 19's only to be discarded a year or so later because they could not suddenly step up, and everybody posting on Hibsnet.. '"I cant understand why we let him go, he was magic in the under 19's when I saw him etc.'"

Nobody in Scottish fitba, be it youngsters, managers or whomever these days has the luxury of time on their side, with us fans demanding almost instant success/results - so any 'development'period is curtailed.

Another alternative, but a possible painful one is to increase the size of the SPL, accept that tv revenues will be less than now, and consequently players will leave earlier/not come because of reduced wages, accept the fare on offer.....and/or be prepared to watch part time footballers once again in Scotland's top league.

I just don''t think there are any easy answers - although at the risk of stirring up a hornet's nest, there is no way in the world that I would subject myself to sitting at Easter Road or anywhere else in close to sub zero temperatures watching a match now - and that comfort of fans should also be a consideration ..eg summer fitba.

Summer football on its own will not cure Scottish fitba's ills, but how many people look out the window in January/February and decide not to go because of the conditions?

[offshorehibby]

A wage cap sounds all very well and good but it needs to be a FIFA instigated thing. A wage cap in this country alone would only mean Scottish teams attracting lower level players.
If English league 2 sides were offering more money than us then i know where most players would be off to.

[Ozyhibby]

A wage cap sounds all very well and good but it needs to be a FIFA instigated thing. A wage cap in this country alone would only mean Scottish teams attracting lower level players.
If English league 2 sides were offering more money than us then i know where most players would be off to.

A wage cap set at £5m per season would have absolutely no effect on the quality of players the SPL could attract except at the old firm. Everyone else currently spends below that.

[Malonga's Cat]

Scottish football is at a critical point. Now is the time for the SFA and SPL to sort out our top league.

>Increase the league to stop us playing teams 4 times in a season = stops boredom.

>Get rid of the split = it's stupid, i'm a traditionalist, play each other an equal amount of times.

>Re-introduce the reserve/U21 league = helps players develop beyond 19 and those returning from injury.

>Harsher penalties for clubs entering administration = what's 10 points in one season to rangers (if they recover)

>No wage cap = I can see why some folk would want it, but clubs should live within their means. If they don't it's their problem. Imagine if hibs were to sign a Sauzee type player at the end of their career and we couldn't because it would take us over the wage cap! raging! I think long term it puts a constraint on the league and it's teams competing in europe.

[bingo70]

I think part of the problem is that we're too keen to put our game down, even when we're doing things well we don't give ourselves praise, an example being if there's a high scoring game we laugh at the defending and bemoan the lack of quality but when there's a high scoring game in England everyone is creaming themselves over it.

I also think the need to compare ourselves to English football is unhealthy, its a totally unfair comparison on every level.

[Big Ed]

Scottish football has been managed appallingly for as long as I can remember. There are so many factors that require attention; it is impossible to know where to begin, but taking a laissez-faire approach will be disastrous for our game. One of the positive things about professional football in Scotland, is that supporters display a loyalty to their teams that is disproportionate to anything that the team can reciprocate. I am not so sure that future generations will be so sentimental.
Salary caps, league reconstruction, summer football and the reintroduction of reserve leagues have all been mentioned here, but even if all of these things were implemented, it is unlikely that the product on the park would improve significantly.
More practically, clubs would have to look beyond their own self interests and there is little evidence of that.
One positive that might be around the corner though is the demise of Rangers. There is increasing speculation that they might be liquidated and thus not a member of next season's SPL. The Old Firm veto (the necessity to have a 11-1 majority to implement rule changes in the SPL) means that Celtic would not be in as powerful position without their best pals (sorry, I meant bitterest rivals). There would be no better opportunity to revisit old chestnuts like distribution of money etc. and offer the chance of a more level playing field.

[hfc rd]

Just seen in one of the newspapers is that the SPL are looking into replacing the U19 setup with not a reserve league, but a U20 setup? Really makes no sense whatsoever! These are guys are absolutely fickle!

[Eyrie]

This was mentioned before on here, and I think that the proposed U20 league would allow a couple of overaged players in the team. Handy for continuing the development of a 21 or 22 year old, or for getting an player returning from injury some match practice.

[NAE NOOKIE]

There's a salary cap imposed on all football codes out here - to ensure competitiveness.

However when it comes to fitba, cashed up Asian clubs simply wave their cheque book and the targeted players are offski - mostly to do a Deeks it must be said, but not all and the lure of the dollar or yen or whatever makes them go.

At international level Australia is ranked I think number 2 in Asia but when it comes to the Asian championship league (the equivalent of your European Championship) Aussie club sides cannot compete well - as naturally their Asian counterparts have much more money and can attract better players.

I think that is the problem with imposing a salary cap in Scotland - what it would mean would be that broadly speaking, when it came to European competition we would eventually be akin to the League of Ireland when it came to competing against the rest of Europe.

Short term people would like to see the chamionships and cups going in several different directions, but ultimately any players worth their salt would be off - even earlier than now, and teh SPL would possibly be not much more than a glorified youth league.

I don't know if there IS an answer..the EPL is basically followed worldwide, and tv resources are concentrated there - the rest of us unfortunately fight for the scraps.

A lot of truth in that. But IMO things are changing fast in European football and I would be willing to bet that in a few years time a £5,000 per week wage cap will be pretty competative set against the likes of the English Championship and most of the middle sized European leagues.

Just look at the state of the English game as I type this... Coventry, Portsmouth and Port Vale are teetering on the brink and a whole host of other clubs are close to it. The EPL is one Rupert Murdoch strop away from financial meltdown.

As for Europe .... Who are we kidding ... as things stand just now we have an uncompetative league with some clubs spending way outwith their means and the one club with money ( celtic ) have done sod all in Europe for a decade.

If having an SPL with more than ( nowadays ) one club in with a chance of winning the league means punting our chances in Europe for a couple of decades until the rest of Europe sees sense, then I for one am all for it.

[hibeedonald]

Yes we can can sit back and laugh at the situation Glasgow Rangers find themselves in
Admin, 11 players given their jotters etc etc. Hearts spending beyond there means
and Livingston buying a leauge cup. Scottish football is in the worst state i can ever
remember.
The total lack of investment in youth has come back to bite us big time and a rethink into the
state of scottish football is badly overdue. I would introduce wage caping, clubs having to
pay wages within their means. It works in the states so why not overhere?. I would also
propose a 4 non scottish player rule, rather than the wage thiefs that come in their droves
from all parts of the globe. And let's increase the size of the spl to 14 or 16 clubs
i'm fed up playing St.Jonstone. St.Mirrin 4 times a season, a bit variety would hopefully
bring back a freshness to the staleness that exists within our present setup. I don't
presume to no all the answers to our problems but gloating at the financial set up of
The likes of Rangers and Hearts is merely papering over the cracks that we all could
find ourselves in.

IMO the SPL has been better than usual/more competitive this year. (outwith the OF)

[ballengeich]

I would also propose a 4 non scottish player rule, rather than the wage thiefs that come in their droves
from all parts of the globe.

That would be illegal under European Union rules on free movement of labour.

[jgl07]

A wage cap set at £5m per season would have absolutely no effect on the quality of players the SPL could attract except at the old firm. Everyone else currently spends below that.

What about Hearts?

They would spend more than £5 million assuming that they actually pay it.

[bingo70]

IMO the SPL has been better than usual/more competitive this year. (outwith the OF)

Agree, i've seen Motherwell, Dundee united, St Mirren, Killie plus obviously the old firm play some really good football this season and without knowing the facts there appears to be more young players coming through at these clubs as well but you hear very little praise getting given to these clubs that are trying to do things the right way.


That would be illegal under European Union rules on free movement of labour.

I'm no expert but as long as there wasn't any rules stopping clubs employing foreigners then that would be ok wouldn't it? Clubs could still employ more than 4 foreigners they just couldn't play them all at the same time.

Genuine question though as i don't know the answer to that, not sure if it could still be classed as discrimination if a club chose to sign a Scottish player instead of a foreigner for the reason i gave above?

[Big Ed]

IMO the SPL has been better than usual/more competitive this year. (outwith the OF)

I can't agree that the SPL has been better this year: the standard of football is rancid.

[bingo70]

I can't agree that the SPL has been better this year: the standard of football is rancid.

Compared to what though? Other leagues or compared to how it used to be?

[Billy Whizz]

A lot of truth in that. But IMO things are changing fast in European football and I would be willing to bet that in a few years time a £5,000 per week wage cap will be pretty competative set against the likes of the English Championship and most of the middle sized European leagues.

Just look at the state of the English game as I type this... Coventry, Portsmouth and Port Vale are teetering on the brink and a whole host of other clubs are close to it. The EPL is one Rupert Murdoch strop away from financial meltdown.

As for Europe .... Who are we kidding ... as things stand just now we have an uncompetative league with some clubs spending way outwith their means and the one club with money ( celtic ) have done sod all in Europe for a decade.

If having an SPL with more than ( nowadays ) one club in with a chance of winning the league means punting our chances in Europe for a couple of decades until the rest of Europe sees sense, then I for one am all for it.

I read somewhere that 60% of Championship clubs are in serious debt. Bristol City lost £10million in their last financial year.

[Matty_Jack04]

Agree, i've seen Motherwell, Dundee united, St Mirren, Killie plus obviously the old firm play some really good football this season and without knowing the facts there appears to be more young players coming through at these clubs as well but you hear very little praise getting given to these clubs that are trying to do things the right way.



I'm no expert but as long as there wasn't any rules stopping clubs employing foreigners then that would be ok wouldn't it? Clubs could still employ more than 4 foreigners they just couldn't play them all at the same time.

Genuine question though as i don't know the answer to that, not sure if it could still be classed as discrimination if a club chose to sign a Scottish player instead of a foreigner for the reason i gave above?


doesnt seire A have some kind of foreigner rule? maybe its non EU players thoughn im unsure.

[Matty_Jack04]

Yes we can can sit back and laugh at the situation Glasgow Rangers find themselves in
Admin, 11 players given their jotters etc etc. Hearts spending beyond there means
and Livingston buying a leauge cup. Scottish football is in the worst state i can ever
remember.
The total lack of investment in youth has come back to bite us big time and a rethink into the
state of scottish football is badly overdue. I would introduce wage caping, clubs having to
pay wages within their means. It works in the states so why not overhere?. I would also
propose a 4 non scottish player rule, rather than the wage thiefs that come in their droves
from all parts of the globe. And let's increase the size of the spl to 14 or 16 clubs
i'm fed up playing St.Jonstone. St.Mirrin 4 times a season, a bit variety would hopefully
bring back a freshness to the staleness that exists within our present setup. I don't
presume to no all the answers to our problems but gloating at the financial set up of
The likes of Rangers and Hearts is merely papering over the cracks that we all could
find ourselves in.

sadly the state of scottish football runs alot deeper than wages, clubs living without there means and the size of the SPL.
the whole game across the board needs totally transformed, and I cant speak for everyone but IMO the people in charge of our game be it SPL,SFA or SFL arent up to the job or have done nothing to prove otherwise.

[HUTCHYHIBBY]

I doubt much can be done for Scottish club football, it seems to be enduring a slow, painful death. I think a lot of people are waiting to see how the Rangers situation is handled. If they get off relatively scot free, I believe it could be the final straw for many.

[Viva_Palmeiras]

Wage cap? Hearts would just use loan players onhigher wages from kaunus to get around that

[ballengeich]

I'm no expert but as long as there wasn't any rules stopping clubs employing foreigners then that would be ok wouldn't it? Clubs could still employ more than 4 foreigners they just couldn't play them all at the same time.

Genuine question though as i don't know the answer to that, not sure if it could still be classed as discrimination if a club chose to sign a Scottish player instead of a foreigner for the reason i gave above?

There used to be a rule in European club tournaments that teams could only have three foreigners on the pitch at a time, but UEFA had to abandon that. I can't see anything being different for the SPL.


doesnt seire A have some kind of foreigner rule? maybe its non EU players thoughn im unsure.

It must be for non EU players if it exists. There's hardly an Italian in the Inter team.

[Ozyhibby]

I doubt much can be done for Scottish club football, it seems to be enduring a slow, painful death. I think a lot of people are waiting to see how the Rangers situation is handled. If they get off relatively scot free, I believe it could be the final straw for many.
That will be me and quite a few other people I know.

[Pretty Boy]

Stop bairns being told winning is everything at a young age and concentrate on letting them develop their technique and express themselves.

If i see and hear one more kids games where a manager screams at a player to 'cut the fancy stuff' whilst instructing his team to punt the ball to the big man up front I'll scream.

Let the laddies play, the formations and winning can come later and standards will improve.

[woody47]

Way forward IMO:

(i) 16 teams in league - two games - one home and one away.
(ii) bring back reserve league
(iii) play ONLY Saturday at 3pm for league games
(iv) tell TV companies to take a hike and only show highlights. That way if fans want to see live games, they have to go to the game.
(v) reduce entrance prices (see recent motherwell game for proof)
(vi) have a vote system that does NOT favour unfirm (majority rule ie one more vote against or for passes whatever is being voted on)
(vii) must play minimum two under 21 Scottish players (and not just have them on the bench but in the starting line up)

There are a lot of ways forward and I really don't know why the so called spl chiefs etc cannot see what is wrong and what is needed to change except the fact that they do not want to p off the unbred two. However, whilst these two bigotted giants rule the roost, nothing will change.

[SloopJB]

(i) 16 teams in league - two games - one home and one away. Sounds good
(ii) bring back reserve league. I heard that it was proposed but not enough signed up for it.
(iii) play ONLY Saturday at 3pm for league games. Might there be merit in a 7:30 pm Saturday K.O?
(iv) tell TV companies to take a hike and only show highlights. That way if fans want to see live games, they have to go to the game. Don't think there is enough evidence to suggest that the increase would equal the tv money.
(v) reduce entrance prices (see recent motherwell game for proof). The knock on is reduced revenue.
(vi) have a vote system that does NOT favour unfirm (majority rule ie one more vote against or for passes whatever is being voted on) Makes sense
(vii) must play minimum two under 21 Scottish players (and not just have them on the bench but in the starting line up). Not sure but willing to be convinced

There are a lot of ways forward and I really don't know why the so called spl chiefs etc cannot see what is wrong and what is needed to change except the fact that they do not want to p off the unbred two. However, whilst these two bigotted giants rule the roost, nothing will change.

[cockneymike]

I'll tell you what there is a lot of nonsense being posted on this thread.

1. Salaries cap V Wage Cap: They could be 2 things one is maximum wage which was gotten rid of in the 60s - do you think the PFA would allow that to be brought back - I don't think so! As for the Salaries cap of say £5m a year, it could work, but as has been shown in Oz when the Melbourne team that won the rugby league comp there a few years ago that they were cheating the system by paying their players extras through other means, teams would just get round it one way or another - the whole Rangers tax stuff is proof of that; and we don't have a wage cap!

2. Bring back reserve league - great idea; but big problem is that more than half of the SPL can't afford to pay the players as it is. So ask them to have another 6 or 7 players to play in games that they don't get any money for, how are they going to afford that?

3. I hate the Huns as much as the next Hibbie, but if they don't stay in the SPL that TV contract which is still a substantial fundraiser for us as a club, is screwed. So let's not get too excited.

4. I've only been to a couple of games this year, but really, with the exception of a couple of couple good seasons, is the SPL any worse this year than it has been in the last 25 years? We are crap, but don't let that affect our view of how poor the rest of the league is too?

5. League expansion is a no brainer though 16 with 2 up and 2 down, 1 more national division and 2 regional below it - but the E.Stirlingshires of this world don't want it, and they along with our own Petrie will kill it. It isn't the guys that run the employees of the SFA and SPL or SFL that are killing the game its the blazers at the clubs that are.

6. The long term big problem in Scotland however, is facilities and player numbers - we need 10 or 20 or 30 even Toryglen centres around the country - not just the one's in Glasgow and the similar one in Aberdeen, and summer football would be sure to have an impact - I can't believe it is a complete fluke that Shamrock did so well this year, a couple of years after Ireland went to summer football. Lots of money in Scoltand has been poured into youth development over the last 10 years, but you can't compete with the weather, if its raining and cold less folk will want to play. Especially when kids have so many other options both sporting and non. So better facilities and playing in the summer will help get more kids playing and more kids playing means we have a better chance of finding the Gordon Smiths and Kenny Dalglishs - that must be out there somewhere...