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Monts
29-02-2012, 01:04 PM
Having read the 'Loan Cycle' thread, it got me thinking.

Could a team survive purely on loans?

Say a team started up (or an existing team changed its strategy) and stated it would not sign any players on a permanent basis, instead it would be a purely 'shop window' club. This would mean that only players clubs are looking to retain long term would come, and not players teams are just loooking to get off their books.

This could mean getting players in above their given league competitors price range (as hibs are showing now). It would also mean that their running cost could be significantly lower as the parent club pays a percentage of their players wages.

If those two criteria worked, then the club itself would be relatively successful in its league and would draw in crowds. The novelty factor would also draw initial media interest.

The more successful it is, the more larger clubs would see it as a good place for their up and coming players to go. This would also help improve the clubs standing in the game.

Obviously they would not work with loans from the same country, but lots of foreign players are looking for a way into the premiership, and if they knew of a 'shop window' team in the uk, their would likely be many players interested. The parent company would benefit through the transfer fee from any move to England.

Has anyone else thought about this? Im not suggesting hibs do this, but just wondering about the hypothetical outcome of such a scheme, which I assume has never been tried.

DC_Hibs
29-02-2012, 02:06 PM
Having read the 'Loan Cycle' thread, it got me thinking.

Could a team survive purely on loans?

Say a team started up (or an existing team changed its strategy) and stated it would not sign any players on a permanent basis, instead it would be a purely 'shop window' club. This would mean that only players clubs are looking to retain long term would come, and not players teams are just loooking to get off their books.

This could mean getting players in above their given league competitors price range (as hibs are showing now). It would also mean that their running cost could be significantly lower as the parent club pays a percentage of their players wages.

If those two criteria worked, then the club itself would be relatively successful in its league and would draw in crowds. The novelty factor would also draw initial media interest.

The more successful it is, the more larger clubs would see it as a good place for their up and coming players to go. This would also help improve the clubs standing in the game.

Obviously they would not work with loans from the same country, but lots of foreign players are looking for a way into the premiership, and if they knew of a 'shop window' team in the uk, their would likely be many players interested. The parent company would benefit through the transfer fee from any move to England.

Has anyone else thought about this? Im not suggesting hibs do this, but just wondering about the hypothetical outcome of such a scheme, which I assume has never been tried.

Bernzo, is there not limits in place on the number of loan players permitted.

Your post got me thinking about Beveren who shipped over more than a whole team from the Ivory Coast.
http://www.wsc.co.uk/content/view/5689/38/

Bad Martini
29-02-2012, 02:10 PM
Is this model not adopted by some bam with a pub team and a bunch of farmers?

Said model made further profitable by simply paying naeone :greengrin

Genius.

pentlando
29-02-2012, 02:19 PM
Having read the 'Loan Cycle' thread, it got me thinking.

Could a team survive purely on loans?

Say a team started up (or an existing team changed its strategy) and stated it would not sign any players on a permanent basis, instead it would be a purely 'shop window' club. This would mean that only players clubs are looking to retain long term would come, and not players teams are just loooking to get off their books.

This could mean getting players in above their given league competitors price range (as hibs are showing now). It would also mean that their running cost could be significantly lower as the parent club pays a percentage of their players wages.

If those two criteria worked, then the club itself would be relatively successful in its league and would draw in crowds. The novelty factor would also draw initial media interest.

The more successful it is, the more larger clubs would see it as a good place for their up and coming players to go. This would also help improve the clubs standing in the game.

Obviously they would not work with loans from the same country, but lots of foreign players are looking for a way into the premiership, and if they knew of a 'shop window' team in the uk, their would likely be many players interested. The parent company would benefit through the transfer fee from any move to England.

Has anyone else thought about this? Im not suggesting hibs do this, but just wondering about the hypothetical outcome of such a scheme, which I assume has never been tried.

Are you Willie McKay? :greengrin

He's teamed up with Doncaster this season to trial basically the system you've outlined above, with the exception that they also look for players recently released and sign them on micro contracts e.g. 2-3 months whilst they find themselves new clubs and keep fit. If I'm right they've signed El-Hadji Diouf and Pascal Chimbonda on these sort of arrangements. Basically as you say becoming a shop window club. Here's one link I found with their ideas.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/football/15755659

Not really working for them though, they're bottom of the Championship although to be fair they were struggling before this plan was put into operation.

In my opinion loans should only be used for short-term bolstering of a squad. Part of success in football has been proved to be continuity in both players and staff (Man Utd, Barcelona etc). Part of my enjoyment being a football fan is following players development whilst at Hibs, seeing young Scottish players first breaking into the Hibs first team, establishing themselves and then (hopefully!) going onto to gain international recognition.

Monts
29-02-2012, 03:08 PM
Bernzo, is there not limits in place on the number of loan players permitted.

Your post got me thinking about Beveren who shipped over more than a whole team from the Ivory Coast.
http://www.wsc.co.uk/content/view/5689/38/

As far as I know there are only restrictions on the amount of loans you have from one team and teams within your league.

That may be wrong but thats how I understood it.

Monts
29-02-2012, 03:14 PM
Are you Willie McKay? :greengrin

He's teamed up with Doncaster this season to trial basically the system you've outlined above, with the exception that they also look for players recently released and sign them on micro contracts e.g. 2-3 months whilst they find themselves new clubs and keep fit. If I'm right they've signed El-Hadji Diouf and Pascal Chimbonda on these sort of arrangements. Basically as you say becoming a shop window club. Here's one link I found with their ideas.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/football/15755659

Not really working for them though, they're bottom of the Championship although to be fair they were struggling before this plan was put into operation.

In my opinion loans should only be used for short-term bolstering of a squad. Part of success in football has been proved to be continuity in both players and staff (Man Utd, Barcelona etc). Part of my enjoyment being a football fan is following players development whilst at Hibs, seeing young Scottish players first breaking into the Hibs first team, establishing themselves and then (hopefully!) going onto to gain international recognition.
I had heard of goings on at Doncaster, but wasnt really aware of what it was.

IMO it wouldnt work as well in the English Leagues, as they are very cash rich and in order to get any success you need to be near the top division. And in that circumstance you would be looking to take loans from your competitiors, which would be far less likely.

Where it would work IMO would be the like of the scottish league, where entry into the spl wouldnt be too difficult, and parent companies would see their players up against the good, the bad and the mediocre, without too much difficulty, and not against a competitor.

It could also work at teams with a rich history, but not rich clubs, like Ajax or Anderlecht. Where the name would be a draw to the club on its own.

pentlando
29-02-2012, 03:41 PM
I had heard of goings on at Doncaster, but wasnt really aware of what it was.

IMO it wouldnt work as well in the English Leagues, as they are very cash rich and in order to get any success you need to be near the top division. And in that circumstance you would be looking to take loans from your competitiors, which would be far less likely.

Where it would work IMO would be the like of the scottish league, where entry into the spl wouldnt be too difficult, and parent companies would see their players up against the good, the bad and the mediocre, without too much difficulty, and not against a competitor.

It could also work at teams with a rich history, but not rich clubs, like Ajax or Anderlecht. Where the name would be a draw to the club on its own.

I think that, whilst a team full of loan players is possibly too far, clubs like Hibs should be looking into formal partnerships with English or European sides. I know we've had a few informal one's before, Chelsea iirc, and we seem to have favourite clubs for sending our young players too. In this arrangement we could be sent players who are regarded as prospects but not quite ready for first team football. IMO the Scottish league in its current from is a perfect place for a young player to grow. There's the unique possibility of these youngsters being exposed to European football whilst in the SPL that they wouldn't be exposed to in the championship or lower leagues in Europe.

I also think Hibs should link up with a couple of European sides of a similar calibre and use some sort of youth exchange system. For example the deal could be to exchange 4 current u19's with 4 u19's of the other team for a few months each season. Therefore the young players would be gaining some insight to foreign coaching methods and styles of play that imo could only benefit them. Also the current squad would benefit from having 4 foreign youngsters playing and training with them. Adapting to play with foreign players is something that any player who makes the 1st team will likely have to do, so i don't see why this shouldn't be introduced at youth level. Any opinions?

Haymaker
29-02-2012, 05:00 PM
I also think Hibs should link up with a couple of European sides of a similar calibre and use some sort of youth exchange system. For example the deal could be to exchange 4 current u19's with 4 u19's of the other team for a few months each season. Therefore the young players would be gaining some insight to foreign coaching methods and styles of play that imo could only benefit them. Also the current squad would benefit from having 4 foreign youngsters playing and training with them. Adapting to play with foreign players is something that any player who makes the 1st team will likely have to do, so i don't see why this shouldn't be introduced at youth level. Any opinions?


Wasnt this mooted a few months back with a former hibs player in France? At Caen? IIRC.

NYHibby
29-02-2012, 05:49 PM
This idea was tried more than a decade ago in America as part of Project 40, which was part of the US's Project 2010 to be a legitimate threat to win the 2010 World Cup.

A team was formed made up of the top under 21 players and other fringe players loaned from MLS clubs. The team played in the old A-League (the division below MLS). The players elected to do Project 40 rather than play in university.

While it did give young players competitive games, it wasn't a huge success and was stopped after 3 seasons.

http://www.nytimes.com/1998/03/03/sports/soccer-notebook-project-40-boys-to-men-boost-for-us.html

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Generation_Adidas#Project-40_in_the_A-League

The big difference from what the OP is suggesting is that they played all their games on the road. They were not a "proper" club that needed to attract fans and make money.

Northernhibee
04-03-2012, 08:54 PM
As far removed from reality as it is, it's not far from my strategy on FIFA 12/Fitba Manager.

Have a small team consisting of good, talented young players often bought on a free or already at the club and look to have six or seven full season loanees from higher leagues. Keep your small core of regular players for stability and try and make sure your loan deals are all good enough for first team action.

Even if it's just a video game, I think that the original idea on a stripped back scale could work if a team were able to promote 4-5 youngsters to first squad action each year then fill the gaps with loan deals as a shop window style club.

Currently on FIFA got back to back promotions with Aldershot Town and sitting 3rd in the Championship with nine games to go, once Fenlon has had his shot I want a go of managing Hibs. Maybe use the editor to help get STF splashing the cash :greengrin

Iggy Pope
04-03-2012, 09:28 PM
Something out of nothing, but noted in yesterday's programme that the Academy coaches are linking up with Malta Hibernians and that there seems to be a desire to extend the relationship.

Not guaranteed to improve our squad of course, but I like the sound of the trip for the pre-season friendly!

Speedy
04-03-2012, 10:59 PM
As far removed from reality as it is, it's not far from my strategy on FIFA 12/Fitba Manager.

Have a small team consisting of good, talented young players often bought on a free or already at the club and look to have six or seven full season loanees from higher leagues. Keep your small core of regular players for stability and try and make sure your loan deals are all good enough for first team action.

Even if it's just a video game, I think that the original idea on a stripped back scale could work if a team were able to promote 4-5 youngsters to first squad action each year then fill the gaps with loan deals as a shop window style club.

Currently on FIFA got back to back promotions with Aldershot Town and sitting 3rd in the Championship with nine games to go, once Fenlon has had his shot I want a go of managing Hibs. Maybe use the editor to help get STF splashing the cash :greengrin

I done something similar on football manager a few years ago.

I was tamworth and had a deal with villa. Guys like clark, albrighton, mcgurk and delfouneso ran riot in the blue square league.