How do we break the loan cyccle?

[Forza Fred]

Stability, or the lack of it in regard to our manaegrial appointmnets is often quoted as one reason for our current demise.

But is it also fair to say that when it comes to stability, how can we achieve such a thing ON the park when a fair proportion of our players are not ours, but loanees?

I acccept that the financial landscape of Scottish football has changed and is rockier than ever, but if we are to break away from being a side who is desperately raking the embers of the January transfer window for short term 'fixes, then our esteemed leaders in whom we have no other option than to place our trust, need to start some kind of transition planning.

The challenge of course is to maintain our SPL place while improving our..and I mean óur' squad as opposed to short term émergency'signings.

I've lost count of those in our squad who ARÉ on loan by the way...but I know we would be a rag tag side without them.

However, its something we should be actively seeking to avoid in future.

Exactly how many are on loan by the way, anybody know - and in these loan deals..can an ówning'club recall their player at any time if they have say an emergency due to injuries?

[Andy74]

Stability, or the lack of it in regard to our manaegrial appointmnets is often quoted as one reason for our current demise.

But is it also fair to say that when it comes to stability, how can we achieve such a thing ON the park when a fair proportion of our players are not ours, but loanees?

I acccept that the financial landscape of Scottish football has changed and is rockier than ever, but if we are to break away from being a side who is desperately raking the embers of the January transfer window for short term 'fixes, then our esteemed leaders in whom we have no other option than to place our trust, need to start some kind of transition planning.

The challenge of course is to maintain our SPL place while improving our..and I mean óur' squad as opposed to short term émergency'signings.

I've lost count of those in our squad who ARÉ on loan by the way...but I know we would be a rag tag side without them.

However, its something we should be actively seeking to avoid in future.

Exactly how many are on loan by the way, anybody know - and in these loan deals..can an ówning'club recall their player at any time if they have say an emergency due to injuries?

What cycle? This is the first time we've had a few loans in. Bizarre on a day that the loan players have won us this game. In the summer we replace them with permanent players and if we can also still get better than we have on loan then great.

[007 Mickey Weir]

I think we need to mix in some loan players. Only way we can afford them. If we can have 2 or 3 at a time to help bring on the youngsters. Dundee Utd have done it for years and it helped them!

[cabbageandribs1875]

i'm kinda hoping that the summer transfer window shall see our board finally investing in QUALITY and not quantity, if they dont it will be deja vu next season :agree: dont take the chance RP/SL whoever.





p.s. what loan players are here just till the end of the season ?

[CallumLaidlaw]

What cycle? This is the first time we've had a few loans in. Bizarre on a day that the loan players have won us this game. In the summer we replace them with permanent players and if we can also still get better than we have on loan then great.

Agreed. Before this season we've probably moaned that we haven't taken advantage of the loan system enough. We've certainly made up for it to be fair

[Forza Fred]

What cycle? This is the first time we've had a few loans in. Bizarre on a day that the loan players have won us this game. In the summer we replace them with permanent players and if we can also still get better than we have on loan then great.

'Developing'cycle then if you prefer Andy.

I've acknowledged in my originalpost that the current 'loan players' have added value to the side.

My concern is that we accept as 'normal practice 'that we will field a number of 'loan'players in the years to come, much like Albion Rovers or Alloa or Cowdenbeath do, when we loan out players.

While there are pluses and minuses in such long term loans it could be argued (ie I have no doubt we'd all like Lionel Messi for a month or so) I would hope that it would not be seen as 'normal practice' in a couple of seaons, as I really view it as a short term fix..

[jonny]

At the moment we have
Matt Doherty, James McPake, Georgie Francomb, Richie Towell, Jorge Claros, Tom Soares, Roy O'Donovan and Leigh Griffiths on loan.

7 out of the 8 started the game today.

Not too many quality players within our budget come available in the January window - Fenlon realised this and saw the loan deals as a way to improve the squad and stave off the prospect of relegation.
It's the first time I can remember that we've had more than a couple of loanees at one time. I think that we'll make a few permanent signings in the summer and have less loan players next year.

[scoopyboy]

At the moment we have
Matt Doherty, James McPake, Georgie Francomb, Richie Towell, Jorge Claros, Tom Soares, Roy O'Donovan and Leigh Griffiths on loan.

7 out of the 8 started the game today.
Not too many quality players within our budget come available in the January window - Fenlon realised this and saw the loan deals as a way to improve the squad and stave off the prospect of relegation.
It's the first time I can remember that we've had more than a couple of loanees at one time. I think that we'll make a few permanent signings in the summer and have less loan players next year.

Doherty and Doyle didn't start.

[Forza Fred]

At the moment we have
Matt Doherty, James McPake, Georgie Francomb, Richie Towell, Jorge Claros, Tom Soares, Roy O'Donovan and Leigh Griffiths on loan.

.

Thanks for that Jonny.

I'll repost a question, hoping someone knows the answer, as opposed to thinks they know...



Can a loan player be recalled by his club at any time - without notice as it were?

[jonny]

Doherty and Doyle didn't start.

Doyle's not on loan.
It was 6/8 though, Doherty and Towell started on the bench.

[BEEJ]

Thanks for that Jonny.

I'll repost a question, hoping someone knows the answer, as opposed to thinks they know...



Can a loan player be recalled by his club at any time - without notice as it were?
Within Scotland it depends upon the terms of the loan agreement. Sometimes 'yes; sometimes 'no'.

Cross-border (e.g. with England), they stay until the next window.

[Andy74]

Thanks for that Jonny.

I'll repost a question, hoping someone knows the answer, as opposed to thinks they know...



Can a loan player be recalled by his club at any time - without notice as it were?

No they can't.

[Andy74]

'Developing'cycle then if you prefer Andy.

I've acknowledged in my originalpost that the current 'loan players' have added value to the side.

My concern is that we accept as 'normal practice 'that we will field a number of 'loan'players in the years to come, much like Albion Rovers or Alloa or Cowdenbeath do, when we loan out players.

While there are pluses and minuses in such long term loans it could be argued (ie I have no doubt we'd all like Lionel Messi for a month or so) I would hope that it would not be seen as 'normal practice' in a couple of seaons, as I really view it as a short term fix..

I wouldn't say doing something once is evidence of a developing cycle that we need to find some way to break.

Why be concerned about something that hasnt happened??

[Forza Fred]

I wouldn't say doing something once is evidence of a developing cycle that we need to find some way to break.

Why be concerned about something that hasnt happened??

The logcal extension of your argument is then I guess....


Dont get concerned over relagation 'this season because'we havent been relegated'..


I guess some think reactively, and some indulge in what is sometimes referred to as potential problem analysis.'

If you dont consider'numerous loan players possibly being considered 'normal practice'' is a potenital issue..fine, as you say no need to worry about it.

[matty_f]

Fenlon acknowledged going into January that the bulk of business done would be loan deals because clubs don't want to let their players go, generally, in the January window. As the window progressed and it became apparent that our league position was a stumbling block for attracting players permanently, I think Fenlon realised that the reliance on loans was going to have to be greater than anticipated.

We need to first of all stay up, then we need to do what we can to keep Fenlon at the club for more than 18 months so that we can start to see some stability and continued building of the playing squad, as opposed to the high player turnover we've witnessed with the cycle of replacing managers frequently.

We need a settled starting 11. I mind as a kid being able to rattle off the Hibs players by position - it's nigh on impossible to do that now because of the amount of chopping and changing that goes on. I could be wrong, but it's my observation that most of the other SPL clubs pretty much have a steady 11 and that brings with it a fluidity, understanding, and consistency in performance that we've been lacking for a long time.

I don't think there's anything wrong with loan deals but they should supplement the squad rather than form a significant part of it. Getting good quality on loan to bring through good players tied down to the club is a pretty good idea and if done well, can be successful.

[SRHibs]

i'm kinda hoping that the summer transfer window shall see our board finally investing in QUALITY and not quantity, if they dont it will be deja vu next season :agree: dont take the chance RP/SL whoever.





p.s. what loan players are here just till the end of the season ?

It's the manager that's using the budget to invest in quantity, not the board...

[brianmc]

It's simple really-at the time of the January window we didn't know what league we'd be in come August. Any signings had to take that into account(imagine we'd signed guys on 2/3 year deals on good money then been stuck with them in Div1), so we signed guys, short term to get us out this ****.
Assuming that we do indeed escape the 'specter of relegation'then we can realistically look to build a team/ squad-but definitely not before then.

[Hibernia&Alba]

As has been stated, the loanees are an emergency measure to keep the club up. Fenlon was well aware that the players he had upon arrival weren't good enough to ensure survival. Long term it wouldn't be a good thing to have so many at once, and there's sure to be an attempt to address it asap.

[J-C]

Surely the loans were our only option considering the time of year and the quality needed to get us out of this mess, I would hope to see more permanent signings in the summer.

[Franck is God]

I can see why some people could be concerned with the number of players we have on loan but I'm not.

A lot of the players that arrived have a genuine chance of playing at a higher level and the main aim of their loan is to try and win a new contract or get into their parent club first team.

The players that have arrived if they perform well have a serious chance of a permanent contract with Hibs at the end of their loan spell, would any of us be hugely surprised if the likes of Griffiths, McPake & O'Donovan became Hibs players in the summer, if Soares does well then as his contract with Stoke runs out in the summer may think that a couple of seasons with Hibs will get his career back on track?

I would also think that Norwich and Wolves are quite happy with the experience that Francome & Doherty are picking up at ER and if they don't feel that either player can break into their first teams next year then another season at Hibs would be the best place for both of them.

Unlike previous loan signings brought to ER I am actually seeing them add value and quality to the team/squad, they want to be here and for a few of them I see them starting next season for us too rather than join the list of players never to be heard of again.

[Stevo1875]

whatever brings the crowd back!

:agree:

[brog]

I think Fred poses a good question but the reality of footballing life now is that effectively every player's a loan player. An average contract is 2-3 years & 1 year before the player is out of contract he'll be touting himself or being touted as available, so effectively meaning the contract is 1-2 years. We signed Doyle 2 months ago & in 4 months time he'll be in the last year of his contract!!
From a Hibs perspective the only players we'll give long term contracts to are outstanding young players, eg the twins & Fletch & that of course is not to keep them but to realise proper value when we sell them. I'm not complaining, it's just the way it is & as other posters have said we may as well work the system. FWIW, I think, with exception of Soares, we have a chance ( if we wish ) to keep most of our current loanees & I would be delighted if we managed to hold on to Griffiths & McPake.

[Hibbyradge]

Stability, or the lack of it in regard to our manaegrial appointmnets is often quoted as one reason for our current demise.

But is it also fair to say that when it comes to stability, how can we achieve such a thing ON the park when a fair proportion of our players are not ours, but loanees?

I acccept that the financial landscape of Scottish football has changed and is rockier than ever, but if we are to break away from being a side who is desperately raking the embers of the January transfer window for short term 'fixes, then our esteemed leaders in whom we have no other option than to place our trust, need to start some kind of transition planning.

The challenge of course is to maintain our SPL place while improving our..and I mean óur' squad as opposed to short term émergency'signings.

I've lost count of those in our squad who ARÉ on loan by the way...but I know we would be a rag tag side without them.

However, its something we should be actively seeking to avoid in future.

Exactly how many are on loan by the way, anybody know - and in these loan deals..can an ówning'club recall their player at any time if they have say an emergency due to injuries?

We avoid relegation and players will be more inclined to sign.

However, although I understand your discomfort, the loan system is a legitimate way to a) boost a squad and b) give a player match practice and judicial use of it should be welcomed.

We have to be realistic. It's an unpalatable truth, but Hibs, and most other SPL clubs, can't afford to buy, or salary, half decent players, never mind real quality. The only way we'll get to see any playing for Hibs is if we bring them through the ranks, discover a "gem" in the lower leagues once in a blue moon or sign them on loan.

Does anyone know if the fans of Brechin and East Fife etc wring their hands in despair when they sign our players on loan or are they excited to have our youngsters in their teams?

[Makaveli]

We avoid relegation and players will be more inclined to sign.

However, although I understand your discomfort, the loan system is a legitimate way to a) boost a squad and b) give a player match practice and judicial use of it should be welcomed.

We have to be realistic. It's an unpalatable truth, but Hibs, and most other SPL clubs, can't afford to buy, or salary, half decent players, never mind real quality. The only way we'll get to see any playing for Hibs is if we bring them through the ranks, discover a "gem" in the lower leagues once in a blue moon or sign them on loan.

Does anyone know if the fans of Brechin and East Fife etc wring their hands in despair when they sign our players on loan or are they excited to have our youngsters in their teams?

I think there are a lot of people who still find it hard to accept that Hibs are to Coventry what East Fife are to Hibs, myself included TBH.

[NORTHERNHIBBY]

Some of the bodies we have brought in on loan, we couldn't afford to buy outright. I don't see anything wrong in miXing a couple of loanees with players we bring through. A season loan and a 12 month deal are more of less the same thing apart from the fact that parent clubs chip in with the wages. As long as it remains quality loans, that is fine.

[Hibbyradge]

I think there are a lot of people who still find it hard to accept that Hibs are to Coventry what East Fife are to Hibs, myself included TBH.

Wow, what an interpretation to put on it!

I'm sure they don't have such an arrogant view of us, but they are much wealthier and have bigger crowds.

How do you feel about Wolves, Norwich and Stoke loaning us players?

[H18sry]

I think Sparky, McPake and O'Donovan will be with us next season also add that Claros is here until January we then have a base to begin with :agree:

[hibs0666]

While there are pluses and minuses in such long term loans it could be argued (ie I have no doubt we'd all like Lionel Messi for a month or so) I would hope that it would not be seen as 'normal practice' in a couple of seaons, as I really view it as a short term fix..

I disagree. I see loans as being part of the managers toolbox and should be used accordingly.

[Makaveli]

Wow, what an interpretation to put on it!

I'm sure they don't have such an arrogant view of us, but they are much wealthier and have bigger crowds.

How do you feel about Wolves, Norwich and Stoke loaning us players?

In general terms, youngsters from Premiership clubs (Griffiths, Doherty, Francomb) are going to be good acquisitions for however long we can get them.

With more experience and a decent pedigree Soares would be an excellent permanent signing.

I don't know about you but I view Hibs as a club who could/would be competitive at mid-upper Championship level. I appreciate this season is unique and survival now all that matters but loaning 26 and 27 year-olds who aren't good enough for the 42nd best team in England isn't a long term solution.

[Andy74]

The logcal extension of your argument is then I guess....


Dont get concerned over relagation 'this season because'we havent been relegated'..


I guess some think reactively, and some indulge in what is sometimes referred to as potential problem analysis.'

If you dont consider'numerous loan players possibly being considered 'normal practice'' is a potenital issue..fine, as you say no need to worry about it.

Some analyse problems that aren't there you mean.

[RIP]

I agree with the OP and Matty's post hits the nail on the head for me.

Constantly replacing the manager and the squad every year is the reason we are flirting with relegation. I agree that loans were our only option - signing 2 year deals would have been a financial commitment too far for a relegation-threatened side like us

[Andy74]

I agree with the OP and Matty's post hits the nail on the head for me.

Constantly replacing the manager and the squad every year is the reason we are flirting with relegation. I agree that loans were our only option - signing 2 year deals would have been a financial commitment too far for a relegation-threatened side like us

That's a totally different point than saying we have a cycle of reliance on loan players that we need to break.

[Hibbyradge]

In general terms, youngsters from Premiership clubs (Griffiths, Doherty, Francomb) are going to be good acquisitions for however long we can get them.

With more experience and a decent pedigree Soares would be an excellent permanent signing.

I don't know about you but I view Hibs as a club who could/would be competitive at mid-upper Championship level. I appreciate this season is unique and survival now all that matters but loaning 26 and 27 year-olds who aren't good enough for the 42nd best team in England isn't a long term solution.

I think we'd have our hands full in league 1, to be honest.

Secondly, our 2 loan players from Coventry have dramatically improved our team.

I don't think there are many players on Hibs books who aren't good enough for the first team, who would improve Coventry.

[Makaveli]

I think we'd have our hands full in league 1, to be honest.

Secondly, our 2 loan players from Coventry have dramatically improved our team.

I don't think there are many players on Hibs books who aren't good enough for the first team, who would improve Coventry.

These points are only true because we are so poor at the moment. That's the issue though - as a club Hibs are in a false position.

In every sense we are one of the biggest 5 clubs in Scotland with a fair shout for 4th and the odd run at 3rd. These type of loans aren't a long term solution.

[Hibbyradge]

These type of loans aren't a long term solution.

Until I win a triple roll over Euro lottery or a multi millionaire Hibby buys the club, the better players will head to the English league where the financial rewards are much greater and we'll be left with the rump.

If we can improve our squad by taking loan players from England, then it should be part of our long term strategy as much as developing our own talent or discovering "gems".

I do agree, however, that 8 players on loan is exceptional.

[blackpoolhibs]

Until I win a triple roll over Euro lottery or a multi millionaire Hibby buys the club, the better players will head to the English league where the financial rewards are much greater and we'll be left with the rump.

If we can improve our squad by taking loan players from England, then it should be part of our long term strategy as much as developing our own talent or discovering "gems".

I do agree, however, that 8 players on loan is exceptional.

Me too, but we have never used the loan system well. Other clubs seem to supplement their squads with good loan players, who contribute better quality. While ours have been bit part loans, hardly worthwhile even getting them.

We were in deep trouble, still are. Fenlon has used the window to get us out the mire, 8 players on loan was the only way at that time he could get the quality in he wanted?

I'd imagine we wont keep most of them, but we will make better signings in the summer, and with a few added loans, we will hopefully be onwards and upwards.

[Hibbyradge]

Me too, but we have never used the loan system well. Other clubs seem to supplement their squads with good loan players, who contribute better quality. While ours have been bit part loans, hardly worthwhile even getting them.

We were in deep trouble, still are. Fenlon has used the window to get us out the mire, 8 players on loan was the only way at that time he could get the quality in he wanted?

I'd imagine we wont keep most of them, but we will make better signings in the summer, and with a few added loans, we will hopefully be onwards and upwards.

I agree. Loaning decent players to cover weak areas or improve the squad must be an important part of a Hibs manager's strategy.

[greenlex]

Did we pay PPI with all our loans? We could be due a fortune. :agree:

[--------]

Fenlon acknowledged going into January that the bulk of business done would be loan deals because clubs don't want to let their players go, generally, in the January window. As the window progressed and it became apparent that our league position was a stumbling block for attracting players permanently, I think Fenlon realised that the reliance on loans was going to have to be greater than anticipated.

We need to first of all stay up, then we need to do what we can to keep Fenlon at the club for more than 18 months so that we can start to see some stability and continued building of the playing squad, as opposed to the high player turnover we've witnessed with the cycle of replacing managers frequently.

We need a settled starting 11. I mind as a kid being able to rattle off the Hibs players by position - it's nigh on impossible to do that now because of the amount of chopping and changing that goes on. I could be wrong, but it's my observation that most of the other SPL clubs pretty much have a steady 11 and that brings with it a fluidity, understanding, and consistency in performance that we've been lacking for a long time.

I don't think there's anything wrong with loan deals but they should supplement the squad rather than form a significant part of it. Getting good quality on loan to bring through good players tied down to the club is a pretty good idea and if done well, can be successful.


Good sense, Matty.

We HAVE to stay up this season - no question. If we do, that should make it a lot easier for PF to sign players on permanent deals in the summer window, but he had to get players in in January or we were doomed. PF did pretty well in bringing in the guys he did on loan, and I'm beginning to think that they will keep us up.

The fact that 6 started yesterday, with the others on the bench, says a lot. The fact that our goals were all scored by loanees says even more.

It may be that for the immediate future our best chance of adding the 'quality' that we all want to see in the side will be through loan deals - guys like Claros, Doherty and Soares probably aren't available on permanent deals in the way that Paatelainen, Latapy and Sauzee were 10-15 years ago. We may just have to accept loan deals as a fact of football life from now on.

And I may be wrong, but I think teams in the Football league are increasingly using 3 or 4 loanees from teams in the EPL or higher divisions of the FL to boost their squads.

IMO there's an art in managing a squad of 18-20 players as opposed to managing a team of 11 with 3-4 obvious reserves as was in the old days. That art becomes more difficult to perfect the lower the wages the players are earning, I think. A guy's much happier sitting on a bench earning £10,000 pw than sitting on the same bench earning £600 pw.

PF also needs to get the youth set-up kick-started and working efficiently - something Hughes couldn't do and Calderwood simply didn't appear interested in doing.

[Heedersnvolleys]

Sorry not read the whole thread so this point may have been already made but we could have had a problem if Wolves had got another manager rather than someone in house, as he may have wanted to have a look at all his players out on loan and took them back. All we would have needed is something similar to happen at Coventry and we would have been back in the soapy bubble!

[Andy74]

Sorry not read the whole thread so this point may have been already made but we could have had a problem if Wolves had got another manager rather than someone in house, as he may have wanted to have a look at all his players out on loan and took them back. All we would have needed is something similar to happen at Coventry and we would have been back in the soapy bubble!

No, they could not have taken them back!!

[Mac]

I am pretty sure a club can recall any player at any time unless it is clearly stated in the agreement as i remember on occasion players being recalled when teams have had an injury crisis, did Mowbray not pull a number of players from various clubs when he took over at the Riverside, it was also rumoured he was going to take Grounds back from us!! may be wrong but im pretty sure he did and Hibs had to ask to leave him where he was.

Also on the topic of loan players, how do we know that we dont have an option on some of them? reading between the lines from a few quotes i think there are one or two players who Hibs may have an option on so fingers crossed.

[tamig]

As several have mentioned before, there is no cycle of loan players at ER. However, loan deals play a big part in the modern game. Only at the top level is there any long term consistency in playing staff. We in Scotland - other than possibly the OF - are not near that level. The days of stability and players being at a club for anything more than 2-3 years are things of the past. I still think PF will be good for Hibs and will bring us real success. Hopefully that will bring us stability and make players want to stay with the club beyond their initial contract.

[Captain Trips]

As several have mentioned before, there is no cycle of loan players at ER. However, loan deals play a big part in the modern game. Only at the top level is there any long term consistency in playing staff. We in Scotland - other than possibly the OF - are not near that level. The days of stability and players being at a club for anything more than 2-3 years are things of the past. I still think PF will be good for Hibs and will bring us real success. Hopefully that will bring us stability and make players want to stay with the club beyond their initial contract.

Not true, I posted on PM board Motherwell team had most of that first team on 2yr+ deals with some already had done a few years so far, I think 1 player was on a 1 season loan/contract, this was also the case at Dundee Utd with the team that had put out against us very consistant squad.

This is where we need to get back to, in summer hopefully PF is able to keep any of our current loans/short term contracts that have done well on proper contracts. PF and his scouts are going to earn their money in summer as are the board they need to sell this club to players and get them on board. PF will get 2yrs if he is signing players for at least that to do that 2yrs with him.

FWIW I think PF might just be that man to bring some stability to Hibs but the squad churn has to stop.

[Andy74]

I am pretty sure a club can recall any player at any time unless it is clearly stated in the agreement as i remember on occasion players being recalled when teams have had an injury crisis, did Mowbray not pull a number of players from various clubs when he took over at the Riverside, it was also rumoured he was going to take Grounds back from us!! may be wrong but im pretty sure he did and Hibs had to ask to leave him where he was.

Also on the topic of loan players, how do we know that we dont have an option on some of them? reading between the lines from a few quotes i think there are one or two players who Hibs may have an option on so fingers crossed.

They can only get players back from loans in Scotland at the end of the loan period. They cannot be recalled.

[Andy74]

Not true, I posted on PM board Motherwell team had most of that first team on 2yr+ deals with some already had done a few years so far, I think 1 player was on a 1 season loan/contract, this was also the case at Dundee Utd with the team that had put out against us very consistant squad.

This is where we need to get back to, in summer hopefully PF is able to keep any of our current loans/short term contracts that have done well on proper contracts. PF and his scouts are going to earn their money in summer as are the board they need to sell this club to players and get them on board. PF will get 2yrs if he is signing players for at least that to do that 2yrs with him.

FWIW I think PF might just be that man to bring some stability to Hibs but the squad churn has to stop.

Motherwell and Dundee Utd have had some consistency but much of their initial team building and success included a host of loan players.

Dundee Utd themselves lost a number of players last years so they have the same problem with keeping a team together.

[JimBHibees]

I am pretty sure a club can recall any player at any time unless it is clearly stated in the agreement as i remember on occasion players being recalled when teams have had an injury crisis, did Mowbray not pull a number of players from various clubs when he took over at the Riverside, it was also rumoured he was going to take Grounds back from us!! may be wrong but im pretty sure he did and Hibs had to ask to leave him where he was.

Also on the topic of loan players, how do we know that we dont have an option on some of them? reading between the lines from a few quotes i think there are one or two players who Hibs may have an option on so fingers crossed.

Agree it would depend on the terms of the loan whether they could be recalled would imagine clubs would only do this in emergency type situations as the point is to give the player games where he wouldnt have normally.

Can remember some quotes by PF which seemd to indicate one or two where Hibs had options would assume Griffiths and McPake.

[number9dream]

Primary focus is on staying up. By any means necessary...
I'm sure PF will do all he can to keep Griffiths & McPake, although both have time to run on their contracts beyond the summer.
Francombe & Doherty will fancy their chances of a breakthrough at parent clubs. If Wolves go down and jettison high earners then that makes it more likely for the latter.
Not sure of O'Donovan and Soares contract situations. Both will be on much higher wages than Hibs can afford. We need them to perform but if they do well for the rest of the season then we could well see other teams outmuscle us for their services.

[Captain Trips]

Motherwell and Dundee Utd have had some consistency but much of their initial team building and success included a host of loan players.

Dundee Utd themselves lost a number of players last years so they have the same problem with keeping a team together.

I disagree, they had few players in with the possability of a deal, what Hibs have been doing is IMO totally different. They have lostthe odd player but got fees for them. Dundee Utd still have a lot if not most on deals regardless of whom they sold.

We need to find players fit for task and I hope PF can if it is 5mths and 12mths signings, then PF will not be our manager in 12mths, I said it when CC started looking short term and will again this will fail.

HOWEVER PF hasn't done that he was left in a position where loans where all we got get, I believe in summer he will be looking for players to build on.

[Viva_Palmeiras]

Is it Scott who sorts the loans or rod

We should be told: who is the loan arranger and who is tonto ;)

[MB62]

I'll take a whole squad of loan players if they are good enough to do this biz on the park for us.

IMO, there is no such thing now as long term team building, every new season brings new players in and current players out.

Winning cups and league positions are always about the here and now and we can't build a team that might win something 3 or 4 years down the line, it just doesn't happen.

If we do happen to win the S.C. this season, NOBODY is going to be bothered about the amount of loan players we had, and if we do it again next year with another group of loan players we will all be equally as delighted.

I've said for long enough that a managers stay at a club is going to be about 4 or 5 years maximum, unless mid table mediocrity is acceptable (I know that would do right now but certainly hope to be fighting up the top end of the table next year). If after three years there has been little improvement in the teams fortunes, the chances are the manager will get the boot. If after 3 years he has turned things around and the team are going great guns, the chances are he will be head hunted by a bigger club from down South, that's the unfortunate reality of our situation.

So, long term planning and stability longer than a 3 or 4 year period is something that will more than likely just not happen.

Bring on the (loan) Hibees

[Captain Trips]

I'll take a whole squad of loan players if they are good enough to do this biz on the park for us.

IMO, there is no such thing now as long term team building, every new season brings new players in and current players out.

Winning cups and league positions are always about the here and now and we can't build a team that might win something 3 or 4 years down the line, it just doesn't happen.

If we do happen to win the S.C. this season, NOBODY is going to be bothered about the amount of loan players we had, and if we do it again next year with another group of loan players we will all be equally as delighted.

I've said for long enough that a managers stay at a club is going to be about 4 or 5 years maximum, unless mid table mediocrity is acceptable (I know that would do right now but certainly hope to be fighting up the top end of the table next year). If after three years there has been little improvement in the teams fortunes, the chances are the manager will get the boot. If after 3 years he has turned things around and the team are going great guns, the chances are he will be head hunted by a bigger club from down South, that's the unfortunate reality of our situation.

So, long term planning and stability longer than a 3 or 4 year period is something that will more than likely just not happen.

Bring on the (loan) Hibees

I disagree with that and so does the club or at least Mr Hyland. I have had a few email convos with him and I have to say his responses to me where thought out and not 1 bit generic. This quote from an email for me is certainly what I was looking for and was sent during the January transfer window.

"summer window allows him to secure longer term deals, to allow a settled team to be established which will remain the strategy. The Manager has already made moves on the long term basis for summer business, but needs to get the best he can in to fix the immediate problems"


I do not think we would win anything with a team of loans.

[MB62]

I disagree with that and so does the club or at least Mr Hyland. I have had a few email convos with him and I have to say his responses to me where thought out and not 1 bit generic. This quote from an email for me is certainly what I was looking for and was sent during the January transfer window.

"summer window allows him to secure longer term deals, to allow a settled team to be established which will remain the strategy. The Manager has already made moves on the long term basis for summer business, but needs to get the best he can in to fix the immediate problems"


I do not think we would win anything with a team of loans.

But what does he consider to be LONG TERM? 3, 4, 5 or six years?

We have not exactly been a humungous success with the 'long term' strategy and who knows where our loan players will take us come May :wink:

[blackpoolhibs]

Can anyone imagine the mess we'd be in if we let calderclown sign players on 2 and 3 year deals?

First up we need the right manager, then he needs to get the team out of the mess its in. If thats loans or 1 year deals so be it.

Fenlons come in, and at last fingers crossed we see a little light at the end of the tunnel.

His work, his real work will start in the summer. He knows you cant build a side with this many loans, and i'd imagine next season we will have a more settled side, supplemented with 2 or 3 loans.

[Captain Trips]

Can anyone imagine the mess we'd be in if we let calderclown sign players on 2 and 3 year deals?

First up we need the right manager, then he needs to get the team out of the mess its in. If thats loans or 1 year deals so be it.

Fenlons come in, and at last fingers crossed we see a little light at the end of the tunnel.

His work, his real work will start in the summer. He knows you cant build a side with this many loans, and i'd imagine next season we will have a more settled side, supplemented with 2 or 3 loans.

No idea as he would I am sure have been looking at different players for 2/3 years than the ones we got on loan. Like all managers you have to accept duds but a 6mth dud followed by another is as bad.