A more Irish Hibernian?

[Hibernia&Alba]

Just thought I'd pose the question to the support in 2012. In relation to the club's heritage and how its future may develop, do you think the club today projects itself in a way that strikes the appropriate balance between its Irish roots and its place in twenty-first century Scottish society? Could our heritage be utilised more and to the club's advantage? Or do you think we actually make too much of the whole thing?

As a new member of the forum, it wouldn't be surprising if this topic has been discussed numerous times before and that some of you old hands are saying "not this again" or something similar. I apologise in advance if this is the case, but as a newbie I'm not to know, and would like to hear your thoughts.

I sometimes feel we play down the club's Irish heritage and influence, perhaps for fear of being dragged into the whole sectarian mire that surrounds the Old Firm. Such a concern is of course understandable, though I can't help think we're missing out a wee bit. Celtic, of course, play up to their Irish history to the hilt and reap the rewards of a huge Irish support. From the outset I would say that I definitely do not advocate Hibernian being a Celtic in miniature. I'm not talking about the support adopting a particular political or religious stance in the way it sometimes manifests itself at Parkhead. Hibernian is a fully inclusive and open club, welcoming all who wish to join, and this must always be paramount. The personal beliefs of the individual are of no consequence. Nor am I talking about turning ER into a tacky Irish theme park. I just sometimes think we hide our light under a bushel and don't make enough of the special 'selling point' we have; and apologies for phrasing that in the marketing sense. Our uniqueness is there in the name - Hibernian - and I think we could a bit more to explain what makes it special and the values it represents. 'More than a club' is how Barcelona put it regarding their Catalan heritage, and surely a club called Hibernian has a sense of identity that also goes beyond just eleven guys kicking a ball around. Or does it? Perhaps it doesn't. If it does, how should that be represented?


I'd like to hear what our Irish supporters think. Is there a potential pool of support in the country that we're missing out on? Would a greater role for the Irish dimension of the club's heritage be tokenistic?

Inclusive, progressive, broadminded. A celebration of cultural diversity. These are traits that I'm proud to say represent the Hibernian support in general and must always be upheld. Anything that underlines this should always be welcome.

Just a few thoughts. More questions than answers, granted.

:flag:

[CropleyWasGod]

We have a harp in our badge.

We also have a castle, a football, and a ship.

That's a fair representation of our roots and our place for me.

[nonshinyfinish]

We have a harp in our badge.

We also have a castle, a football, and a ship.

That's a fair representation of our roots and our place for me.

:agree: This, plus the rather large clue in our name, is plenty for me. Not hiding our heritage, not banging on about it either.

[Saorsa]

http://i19.photobucket.com/albums/b168/jamie1971/FLAGALERT.gif :greengrin









http://i19.photobucket.com/albums/b168/jamie1971/4flags.gif

[Bad Martini]

We use an amendment of the Roman word for Ireland as our team name. We have green and white strips and as noted above, we have a harp in our badge and were formed by Irish Catholics in the Cowgate and never shirk or disguise this fact (note: We were formed in Edinburgh as when I last checked, St Pats and the Cowgate were in the city boundaries, even of old, just :greengrin) and then moved to Leith....and then to Easter Road (also in Edinburgh).

That said, we are a Scottish club as we are based in Edinburgh which is the capital city of Scotland. We compete in league run by the Scottish Football Association and we compete internationally (rarely) as a Scottish team.

I see no need to try and be plasticated and kid on to be what we are not. For that, you have one Glasgow Celtc. They play up to oirishness, kid on they're Irish/wish they were Irish yet are also similar to ourselves in regard to their Scottishness, much to their pity and to our annoyance.

We know who we are. Why know where we come from and we know where we are going. We dont sign players based on anything other than fitba ability and (recently) cost :cb but, we're certainly no sectarian.

Im happy with Hibs as they are. Everyone's money is welcome at Easter Road and there's nae hassle with ANYONE supporting the cause.

Everything else, is pish.

ENDOF

[Elephant Stone]

We have a harp in our badge.

We also have a castle, a football, and a ship.

That's a fair representation of our roots and our place for me.

:agree:

[Pretty Boy]

We use an amendment of the Roman word for Ireland as our team name. We have green and white strips and as noted above, we have a harp in our badge and were formed by Irish Catholics in the Cowgate and never shirk or disguise this fact (note: We were formed in Edinburgh as when I last checked, St Pats and the Cowgate were in the city boundaries, even of old, just :greengrin) and then moved to Leith....and then to Easter Road (also in Edinburgh).

That said, we are a Scottish club as we are based in Edinburgh which is the capital city of Scotland. We compete in league run by the Scottish Football Association and we compete internationally (rarely) as a Scottish team.

I see no need to try and be plasticated and kid on to be what we are not. For that, you have one Glasgow Celtc. They play up to oirishness, kid on they're Irish/wish they were Irish yet are also similar to ourselves in regard to their Scottishness, much to their pity and to our annoyance.

We know who we are. Why know where we come from and we know where we are going. We dont sign players based on anything other than fitba ability and (recently) cost :cb but, we're certainly no sectarian.

Im happy with Hibs as they are. Everyone's money is welcome at Easter Road and there's nae hassle with ANYONE supporting the cause.

Everything else, is pish.

ENDOF

Well said that man.

Proud of our history, proud of our present.

[JimBHibees]

Looks like the sort of OP a Yam section N type would post to try and justify their bigotry by fishing for Hibs fans as bigoted as them.

[humins]

well put & balanced question by the op, but for me the main thing about hibs is that we exist in the 21st century not the 17th & we are inclusive, a hibee is a hibee because they support hibs, not because they have gone to the the "right" school or are a member of the "right" religious organisation /cult. I would like to think that Richard Dawkins would be a hibs fan. It's about the football not the personal belief in an ethereal mystical uber being.

[Famous Fiver]

Hibernia & Alba

If you want an Irish club go to Ireland.

No Irish heritage or connection in our family, all protestants, no catholics, but we are on fourth generation Hibernian fans and have a direct family member who was in the famous five.

We're in it for the FOOTBALL.

Sorry to be so blunt. It's just the way I feel.

[Tha Cabbage Kid]

Just thought I'd pose the question to the support in 2012. In relation to the club's heritage and how its future may develop, do you think the club today projects itself in a way that strikes the appropriate balance between its Irish roots and its place in twenty-first century Scottish society? Could our heritage be utilised more and to the club's advantage? Or do you think we actually make too much of the whole thing?

As a new member of the forum, it wouldn't be surprising if this topic has been discussed numerous times before and that some of you old hands are saying "not this again" or something similar. I apologise in advance if this is the case, but as a newbie I'm not to know, and would like to hear your thoughts.

I sometimes feel we play down the club's Irish heritage and influence, perhaps for fear of being dragged into the whole sectarian mire that surrounds the Old Firm. Such a concern is of course understandable, though I can't help think we're missing out a wee bit. Celtic, of course, play up to their Irish history to the hilt and reap the rewards of a huge Irish support. From the outset I would say that I definitely do not advocate Hibernian being a Celtic in miniature. I'm not talking about the support adopting a particular political or religious stance in the way it sometimes manifests itself at Parkhead. Hibernian is a fully inclusive and open club, welcoming all who wish to join, and this must always be paramount. The personal beliefs of the individual are of no consequence. Nor am I talking about turning ER into a tacky Irish theme park. I just sometimes think we hide our light under a bushel and don't make enough of the special 'selling point' we have; and apologies for phrasing that in the marketing sense. Our uniqueness is there in the name - Hibernian - and I think we could a bit more to explain what makes it special and the values it represents. 'More than a club' is how Barcelona put it regarding their Catalan heritage, and surely a club called Hibernian has a sense of identity that also goes beyond just eleven guys kicking a ball around. Or does it? Perhaps it doesn't. If it does, how should that be represented?


I'd like to hear what our Irish supporters think. Is there a potential pool of support in the country that we're missing out on? Would a greater role for the Irish dimension of the club's heritage be tokenistic?

Inclusive, progressive, broadminded. A celebration of cultural diversity. These are traits that I'm proud to say represent the Hibernian support in general and must always be upheld. Anything that underlines this should always be welcome.

Just a few thoughts. More questions than answers, granted.

:flag:

my perseption that celtic are well supported is due to them being a good team. and winning medals. And obviously half there fans are plastic. if we were winning most of our games our stadium would be packed too.

we have irish roots too but that doesnt make a difference if we bigged it up or not. IMHO

[HUTCHYHIBBY]

Hibernia & Alba

If you want an Irish club go to Ireland.

No Irish heritage or connection in our family, all protestants, no catholics, but we are on fourth generation Hibernian fans and have a direct family member who was in the famous five.

We're in it for the FOOTBALL.

Sorry to be so blunt. It's just the way I feel.

Quite right too!

[Hibernia&Alba]

Looks like the sort of OP a Yam section N type would post to try and justify their bigotry by fishing for Hibs fans as bigoted as them.


With a decade on this forum, I'm sure you know the signs of enemy agent, though in case you're incorrect, sire. I wouldn't waste my time.

[LancsHibs]

The way I see it our Irish/Catholic roots are interesting and it's reflected in our name & crest but is history and has little relevance to the modern football cllub
Other clubs have interesting and unique origins, Hearts were formed from the members of a dance hall and Kilmarnock like many clubs were formed by members of a cricket club looking to take up a sport for the winter months. I'm sure you not have to like ballroom dancing to be a Jambo or a be a keen cricketer to support Killie:greengrin
I think if the club started to promote the Irish heritage any more it could ailianate some of the Hibs support who the majority I would suspect have no Irish catholic connections. The current status quo Is fine by me and seems to work.
Glory glory:flag:

[Sodje_18]

The way I see it our Irish/Catholic roots are interesting and it's reflected in our name & crest but is history and has little relevance to the modern football cllub
Other clubs have interesting and unique origins, Hearts were formed from the members of a dance hall and Kilmarnock like many clubs were formed by members of a cricket club looking to take up a sport for the winter months. I'm sure you not have to like ballroom dancing to be a Jambo or a be a keen cricketer to support Killie:greengrin
I think if the club started to promote the Irish heritage any more it could ailianate some of the Hibs support who the majority I would suspect have no Irish catholic connections. The current status quo Is fine by me and seems to work.
Glory glory:flag:
Calum Elliot was awfy keen to celebrate their roots :greengrin

[fatbloke]

Just thought I'd pose the question to the support in 2012. In relation to the club's heritage and how its future may develop, do you think the club today projects itself in a way that strikes the appropriate balance between its Irish roots and its place in twenty-first century Scottish society? Could our heritage be utilised more and to the club's advantage? Or do you think we actually make too much of the whole thing?

As a new member of the forum, it wouldn't be surprising if this topic has been discussed numerous times before and that some of you old hands are saying "not this again" or something similar. I apologise in advance if this is the case, but as a newbie I'm not to know, and would like to hear your thoughts.

I sometimes feel we play down the club's Irish heritage and influence, perhaps for fear of being dragged into the whole sectarian mire that surrounds the Old Firm. Such a concern is of course understandable, though I can't help think we're missing out a wee bit. Celtic, of course, play up to their Irish history to the hilt and reap the rewards of a huge Irish support. From the outset I would say that I definitely do not advocate Hibernian being a Celtic in miniature. I'm not talking about the support adopting a particular political or religious stance in the way it sometimes manifests itself at Parkhead. Hibernian is a fully inclusive and open club, welcoming all who wish to join, and this must always be paramount. The personal beliefs of the individual are of no consequence. Nor am I talking about turning ER into a tacky Irish theme park. I just sometimes think we hide our light under a bushel and don't make enough of the special 'selling point' we have; and apologies for phrasing that in the marketing sense. Our uniqueness is there in the name - Hibernian - and I think we could a bit more to explain what makes it special and the values it represents. 'More than a club' is how Barcelona put it regarding their Catalan heritage, and surely a club called Hibernian has a sense of identity that also goes beyond just eleven guys kicking a ball around. Or does it? Perhaps it doesn't. If it does, how should that be represented?


I'd like to hear what our Irish supporters think. Is there a potential pool of support in the country that we're missing out on? Would a greater role for the Irish dimension of the club's heritage be tokenistic?

Inclusive, progressive, broadminded. A celebration of cultural diversity. These are traits that I'm proud to say represent the Hibernian support in general and must always be upheld. Anything that underlines this should always be welcome.

Just a few thoughts. More questions than answers, granted.

:flag:

Why not just leave this nonsense to our West of Scotland neighbours. Guys like you should be horsewhipped. Away and find a cure for cancer or an answer to child poverty.:rolleyes:

[LancsHibs]

Calum Elliot was awfy keen to celebrate their roots :greengrin

:faf: exception to the rule :dancer:

[Hibernia&Alba]

Why not just leave this nonsense to our West of Scotland neighbours. Guys like you should be horsewhipped. Away and find a cure for cancer or an answer to child poverty.:rolleyes:


With due respect, I don't think you've understood the original post correctly. 'Leave this nonsense to our west of Scotland neighbours'. Do you mean using football clubs for religious prejudice and political extremism? I agree one hundred per cent.

[JimBHibees]

With a decade on this forum, I'm sure you know the signs of enemy agent, though in case you're incorrect, sire. I wouldn't waste my time.

Ok then thats proven it you are not a Hearts fan on the windup. :greengrin

[Keith_M]

Why not just leave this nonsense to our West of Scotland neighbours. Guys like you should be horsewhipped. Away and find a cure for cancer or an answer to child poverty.:rolleyes:


Bit over the top, no?

I'm not sure you read the OP, or have decided to ignore most of it, but he specifically mentioned he didn't want the 'nonsense' of the West of Scotland. His was one of the most balanced posts I've read on here. Yours, on the other hand..........

[Cabbage East]

If we were any more Irish we'd have to get a Tayto logo in the badge :greengrin

[hibbymac]

Shaun, SHAUN, ..... is that you Shaun. :duck:

[N.Wales Hibby]

[QUOTE=Famous Fiver;3125988]Hibernia & Alba

If you want an Irish club go to Ireland.

No Irish heritage or connection in our family, all protestants, no catholics, but we are on fourth generation Hibernian fans and have a direct family member who was in the famous five.

We're in it for the FOOTBALL.

Sorry to be so blunt. It's just the way I feel.[/QUOTE


It does not matter what religion you are to be a Hibby. Nobody cares. That in itself is part of our Heritage.

[cabbageandribs1875]

Why not just leave this nonsense to our West of Scotland neighbours. Guys like you should be horsewhipped. Away and find a cure for cancer or an answer to child poverty.:rolleyes:

not really necessary

[fatbloke]

not really necessary

Yes it is. We are all descended from monkeys but our strip is not a gorilla or a chimp outfit. We are a football team nowt more nowt less. I find like this boring and a waste of space. This whole Irish non Irish, wee celtic claptrap should be consigned to history. It is and always will be while dafties keep the debate going. From a football sense we cannot sell hibs to the locals never mind outside our shores so for me whole thing is mince.

[surreyhibbie]

I support a football team, and have done so for about 45 years. I have no interest in religion at all, and I couldn't care less to be honest. I have very good friends of all religious persuasions.

Don't understand the fascination myself, but each to his own.

Sorry, but this looks like a wind up to me. Fat bloke has a point.

[fatbloke]

I support a football team, and have done so for about 45 years. I have no interest in religion at all, and I couldn't care less to be honest. I have very good friends of all religious persuasions.

Don't understand the fascination myself, but each to his own.

Sorry, but this looks like a wind up to me. Fat bloke has a point.

Have you no work to do B.

I'm just bored of all this irish crap that gets thrown about. Irish people are not interested in Rankgers Sellick or Hibs, many find the whole fascination with Ireland etc embarrassing.

I was told in the Hibs Club on Saturday that because I prefer Rangers to Celtic I wasn't a real Hibby etc etc. What a crock o . I am a football fan first and last and would not care if Hibs lined up with 11 sash wearing flute playing drum bashing er5es if they scored more goals than the opposition. Posts that mention anything to do with heritage or Ireland or Shamrocks etc etc should be banned.

Anyway how are you doing??

[Hibernia&Alba]

I support a football team, and have done so for about 45 years. I have no interest in religion at all, and I couldn't care less to be honest. I have very good friends of all religious persuasions.

Don't understand the fascination myself, but each to his own.

Sorry, but this looks like a wind up to me. Fat bloke has a point.

Nor I, and I did disassociate the premise of religion from support for the club. What I didn't say in the OP is that I'm a convinced atheist myself, and that's because it isn't anybody else's business. But as you wish to keep introducing religion for some reason.....

[Sodje_18]

I support a football team, and have done so for about 45 years. I have no interest in religion at all, and I couldn't care less to be honest. I have very good friends of all religious persuasions.

Don't understand the fascination myself, but each to his own.

Sorry, but this looks like a wind up to me. Fat bloke has a point.
How exactly does a tricolour or an Erin go brah flag represent religion? I believe a couple of flags is all the OP was hoping for, and I'd happily see that at ER.

[fatbloke]

The way I see it our Irish/Catholic roots are interesting and it's reflected in our name & crest but is history and has little relevance to the modern football cllub
Other clubs have interesting and unique origins, Hearts were formed from the members of a dance hall and Kilmarnock like many clubs were formed by members of a cricket club looking to take up a sport for the winter months. I'm sure you not have to like ballroom dancing to be a Jambo or a be a keen cricketer to support Killie:greengrin
I think if the club started to promote the Irish heritage any more it could ailianate some of the Hibs support who the majority I would suspect have no Irish catholic connections. The current status quo Is fine by me and seems to work.
Glory glory:flag:

:top marks:agree:

[fatbloke]

How exactly does a tricolour or an Erin go brah flag represent religion? I believe a couple of flags is all the OP was hoping for, and I'd happily see that at ER.


what do either have to do with my club in the year 2012.

[Hibernia&Alba]

what do either have to do with my club in the year 2012.


But that's exactly the question I posed! :confused:

[Golden Bear]

The way I see it our Irish/Catholic roots are interesting and it's reflected in our name & crest but is history and has little relevance to the modern football cllub
Other clubs have interesting and unique origins, Hearts were formed from the members of a dance hall and Kilmarnock like many clubs were formed by members of a cricket club looking to take up a sport for the winter months. I'm sure you not have to like ballroom dancing to be a Jambo or a be a keen cricketer to support Killie:greengrin
I think if the club started to promote the Irish heritage any more it could ailianate some of the Hibs support who the majority I would suspect have no Irish catholic connections. The current status quo Is fine by me and seems to work.
Glory glory:flag:

Spot on.

Let's have none of this "celebrate our cultural diversity" pash.

We're a football team - that's where it begins and that's where it ends.

[Sodje_18]

what do either have to do with my club in the year 2012.
So we just abandon our roots? I'm not suggesting people should go way out of their way to do this, but I certainly wouldn't oppose if I seen the occasional flag every game.

[Golden Bear]

So we just abandon our roots? I'm not suggesting people should go way out of their way to do this, but I certainly wouldn't oppose if I seen the occasional flag every game.

:agree:


The Lion Rampant is always fine by me.

[Hibernia&Alba]

Spot on.

Let's have none of this "celebrate our cultural diversity" pash.

We're a football team - that's where it begins and that's where it ends.

And I respect your opinion. It answers the thrust of my OP at least. Nothing to do with religion or a particular political creed.

[Sodje_18]

:agree:


The Lion Rampant is always fine by me.
And I think we should be celebrating both. 'Tic park looks tacky and plastic on match day which is why I would never suggest 1000 tricolours. 1 or 2 is fine by me.

IIRC from the game against Celtc isn't there are large Erin go brah-esque flag in the famous 5?

[hailhail22]

The way i look at it its good to see more hibs fans trying to find ways to bring abit of colour and atmosphere to easter road however this isnt a topic which goes down well with the support, Most supporters dont want this at ER because we are not a sectarian club nor do we not want to come across as a sectarian club as there is no place in football for it, when people see a tricolour at football it sends across stronger messages than you might think.

[surreyhibbie]

Have you no work to do B.



Anyway how are you doing??

Playing with an iPad at work, Chas, looks like I am working.... :greengrin

[hibsbollah]

Looks like the sort of OP a Yam section N type would post to try and justify their bigotry by fishing for Hibs fans as bigoted as them.


Nonsense. Its a perfectly reasonable and well phrased question.

[Dashing Bob S]

I personally won't sleep until our emblem is a balaclava and an AK 47 assault rifle with 'IRA' underneath.


Failing that an open book, a quill with HMRC underneath.


No, I think we do a good job with representing our past off the field, it's reping our present on it that's the big problem. As somebody said, if we get that right and have sustained success, then the glory hunters will come flocking, pretending to be Irish, as they do at Smellytic.

If we were in a bigger league, I would say 'go for it' as a marketing ploy. St Pauli rebranded themselves as a progressive, anti-racist, leftist club, and no have a boutique store on the Reeperbahn which is like Harvey Nicks. Moreover, they have gone from having less than 2,000 people attending their games to over 25,000. But this is Scotland, and we would look ridiculous if we tried that approach.

[Vini1875]

Yes I would like to see more Irishness in the club and support, however not the way celtc do it. celtc have selected a small part of Irishness to represent and that is the part which involves the troubles. Most of the Irish I know don't burst into rebel songs at the sight of a pint of guiness.

The way celtc protray Ireland is unrecognisable to most Irish people just as the kilt wearing, hey jimmy wigs, steaming drunk tartan army are not truly a representation of Scotland.

I think there is much to be celebrated in our roots and I think as a support we are more like the Ireland that I know than what I see in Glasgow.

The way to get more Irish supporting Hibs is to win more games, which is true of the Poles, Asians, English and Scots etc.

[Andy74]

Yes it is. We are all descended from monkeys but our strip is not a gorilla or a chimp outfit. We are a football team nowt more nowt less. I find like this boring and a waste of space. This whole Irish non Irish, wee celtic claptrap should be consigned to history. It is and always will be while dafties keep the debate going. From a football sense we cannot sell hibs to the locals never mind outside our shores so for me whole thing is mince.

Sounds like you might have the issue? It's responses like yours that bring the politics into it. The opening post was nothing to do with that.

[Dashing Bob S]

Sounds like you might have the issue? It's responses like yours that bring the politics into it. The opening post was nothing to do with that.

It's strange, but I recall when this debate started around the time when we changed the crest back to incorporate the Harp emblem. I was all for this, in fact, I wanted the Harp as a sole emblem as it would be punchier and easier to market, but I remember being worried that a lot of plastic Oirish republicans would come along and unload their obsessions.

In the event, it's the people who appear to have sectarian issues with Ireland that seem to the most belligerent when this issue comes up. Having a go at the OP is out of order, its a highly intelligent and reasoned post and I agree with you that it deserves to be either discussed in that manner or ignored as is one's wont.

[Hibrandenburg]

I always find it cringe worthy when Yank politicians try and find an Irish connection in their past. With Hibs I feel the same. Yes it's part of our make-up but a part that is no more important than everything that makes up Hibs.

We are fortunate to have a reasonably rich heritage, but please let's not over do the Irish connection.

[Andy74]

It's strange, but I recall when this debate started around the time when we changed the crest back to incorporate the Harp emblem. I was all for this, in fact, I wanted the Harp as a sole emblem as it would be punchier and easier to market, but I remember being worried that a lot of plastic Oirish republicans would come along and unload their obsessions.

In the event, it's the people who appear to have sectarian issues with Ireland that seem to the most belligerent when this issue comes up. Having a go at the OP is out of order, its a highly intelligent and reasoned post and I agree with you that it deserves to be either discussed in that manner or ignored as is one's wont.

Indeed. The ability to bang on about religion and politics at the mere mention of Ireland says a fair bit about the prejudices of those people. Wrapped up as criticism of sectarianism as well and not getting that they are demonstrating this themselves.

[Brizo]

It's strange, but I recall when this debate started around the time when we changed the crest back to incorporate the Harp emblem. I was all for this, in fact, I wanted the Harp as a sole emblem as it would be punchier and easier to market, but I remember being worried that a lot of plastic Oirish republicans would come along and unload their obsessions.

In the event, it's the people who appear to have sectarian issues with Ireland that seem to the most belligerent when this issue comes up. Having a go at the OP is out of order, its a highly intelligent and reasoned post and I agree with you that it deserves to be either discussed in that manner or ignored as is one's wont.

:agree:

I feel the reintroduction of the harp into a crest which recognised all aspects of what makes Hibs what they are , was a long overdue move. I feel weve got the balance right with the harp on the badge and of course our name and colours which unlike Dundee Utd we never abandoned.

i dont think theres anything to be gained finacially by marketing the club as more Irish , however that would be done. Ive worked with Irish boys and Irish diaspora in London. They couldnt give a monkeys chuff about Hibs. Its all Liverpool . Man U , Arsenal and QPR with Celtc a very distant second. We dont remotely feature on their radar. Same with boys ive worked with in the "ould country" its those clubs plus the toffees , Leeds and a surprising number of Chelsea given their hun connections. Your average Irish fitba fan is an armchair EPL fan with Celtc as their second armchair team.

Marketing Hibs in that manner would achieve nothing other than wind up a few hibbyhuns :wink: .... maybe its a good idea after all :greengrin

[hibs0666]

Just thought I'd pose the question to the support in 2012. In relation to the club's heritage and how its future may develop, do you think the club today projects itself in a way that strikes the appropriate balance between its Irish roots and its place in twenty-first century Scottish society? Could our heritage be utilised more and to the club's advantage? Or do you think we actually make too much of the whole thing?

As a new member of the forum, it wouldn't be surprising if this topic has been discussed numerous times before and that some of you old hands are saying "not this again" or something similar. I apologise in advance if this is the case, but as a newbie I'm not to know, and would like to hear your thoughts.

I sometimes feel we play down the club's Irish heritage and influence, perhaps for fear of being dragged into the whole sectarian mire that surrounds the Old Firm. Such a concern is of course understandable, though I can't help think we're missing out a wee bit. Celtic, of course, play up to their Irish history to the hilt and reap the rewards of a huge Irish support. From the outset I would say that I definitely do not advocate Hibernian being a Celtic in miniature. I'm not talking about the support adopting a particular political or religious stance in the way it sometimes manifests itself at Parkhead. Hibernian is a fully inclusive and open club, welcoming all who wish to join, and this must always be paramount. The personal beliefs of the individual are of no consequence. Nor am I talking about turning ER into a tacky Irish theme park. I just sometimes think we hide our light under a bushel and don't make enough of the special 'selling point' we have; and apologies for phrasing that in the marketing sense. Our uniqueness is there in the name - Hibernian - and I think we could a bit more to explain what makes it special and the values it represents. 'More than a club' is how Barcelona put it regarding their Catalan heritage, and surely a club called Hibernian has a sense of identity that also goes beyond just eleven guys kicking a ball around. Or does it? Perhaps it doesn't. If it does, how should that be represented?


I'd like to hear what our Irish supporters think. Is there a potential pool of support in the country that we're missing out on? Would a greater role for the Irish dimension of the club's heritage be tokenistic?

Inclusive, progressive, broadminded. A celebration of cultural diversity. These are traits that I'm proud to say represent the Hibernian support in general and must always be upheld. Anything that underlines this should always be welcome.

Just a few thoughts. More questions than answers, granted.

:flag:

What would you suggest?

[Kato]

what do either have to do with my club in the year 2012.


It's not just your club.

[SRHibs]

Looks like the sort of OP a Yam section N type would post to try and justify their bigotry by fishing for Hibs fans as bigoted as them.

You've got pretty poor reading comprehension.

[fatbloke]

:agree:

I feel the reintroduction of the harp into a crest which recognised all aspects of what makes Hibs what they are , was a long overdue move. I feel weve got the balance right with the harp on the badge and of course our name and colours which unlike Dundee Utd we never abandoned.

i dont think theres anything to be gained finacially by marketing the club as more Irish , however that would be done. Ive worked with Irish boys and Irish diaspora in London. They couldnt give a monkeys chuff about Hibs. Its all Liverpool . Man U , Arsenal and QPR with Celtc a very distant second. We dont remotely feature on their radar. Same with boys ive worked with in the "ould country" its those clubs plus the toffees , Leeds and a surprising number of Chelsea given their hun connections. Your average Irish fitba fan is an armchair EPL fan with Celtc as their second armchair team.

Marketing Hibs in that manner would achieve nothing other than wind up a few hibbyhuns :wink: .... maybe its a good idea after all :greengrin

The large harp on the wall outside Easter should never have been taken down but should have been maintained, repaired relocated as the situation and times saw fit.

[Sir David Gray]

Our club name means "Ireland" in Latin, the predominant colour on our strip is green, which represents Ireland and we have a harp incorporated within our club badge, which of course is a symbol of Ireland.

That, for me, is enough of a link with Ireland. We are, after all, a Scottish football club, based in the capital city of Scotland and the majority of our fans are Scottish.

If people from Ireland choose to follow Hibs then they should feel free to come along to a game some time or buy season tickets etc. However, they should be made to feel no more, and no less, welcome at Easter Road than people from any other part of the country are.

The day that Easter Road becomes a mini version of Parkhead is the day I'll be packing it all in.

That's a 'no' from me, by the way!

[barcahibs]

We honour our roots every time we run out onto the pitch in green and white with a harp on our badge. Thats enough for me, we're a Scottish club, playing in the capital city of 21st Century Scotland.

As a Scot with no Irish connection I'd probably feel a bit of a disconnect with the club if that aspect was promoted any further. It's also an unfortunate fact that in this country any attempt to promote Irish links by the use of tricolours etc will be used to tar us with the same brush as celtc - and the farther we can stay away from them in ethos and public perception the happier I'll be.

I do however vaguely remember hearing a story when I was wee about some sort of curse that was supposedly put on the club when the harp was removed from display on the outside of one of the stands? Supposedly we'd never win the Scottish Cup til it was returned. As a modern, rational, scientifically minded person who has no truck with any sort of religion or superstition... I think a big Hibs badge with its nice prominent and purely coincidental harp in it would look lovely on the outside of the new East. In fact maybe best to put one on all the stands just to be sure.

[The Harp Awakes]

Just thought I'd pose the question to the support in 2012. In relation to the club's heritage and how its future may develop, do you think the club today projects itself in a way that strikes the appropriate balance between its Irish roots and its place in twenty-first century Scottish society? Could our heritage be utilised more and to the club's advantage? Or do you think we actually make too much of the whole thing?

As a new member of the forum, it wouldn't be surprising if this topic has been discussed numerous times before and that some of you old hands are saying "not this again" or something similar. I apologise in advance if this is the case, but as a newbie I'm not to know, and would like to hear your thoughts.

I sometimes feel we play down the club's Irish heritage and influence, perhaps for fear of being dragged into the whole sectarian mire that surrounds the Old Firm. Such a concern is of course understandable, though I can't help think we're missing out a wee bit. Celtic, of course, play up to their Irish history to the hilt and reap the rewards of a huge Irish support. From the outset I would say that I definitely do not advocate Hibernian being a Celtic in miniature. I'm not talking about the support adopting a particular political or religious stance in the way it sometimes manifests itself at Parkhead. Hibernian is a fully inclusive and open club, welcoming all who wish to join, and this must always be paramount. The personal beliefs of the individual are of no consequence. Nor am I talking about turning ER into a tacky Irish theme park. I just sometimes think we hide our light under a bushel and don't make enough of the special 'selling point' we have; and apologies for phrasing that in the marketing sense. Our uniqueness is there in the name - Hibernian - and I think we could a bit more to explain what makes it special and the values it represents. 'More than a club' is how Barcelona put it regarding their Catalan heritage, and surely a club called Hibernian has a sense of identity that also goes beyond just eleven guys kicking a ball around. Or does it? Perhaps it doesn't. If it does, how should that be represented?


I'd like to hear what our Irish supporters think. Is there a potential pool of support in the country that we're missing out on? Would a greater role for the Irish dimension of the club's heritage be tokenistic?

Inclusive, progressive, broadminded. A celebration of cultural diversity. These are traits that I'm proud to say represent the Hibernian support in general and must always be upheld. Anything that underlines this should always be welcome.

Just a few thoughts. More questions than answers, granted.

:flag:

Well done on a very well written and reasoned post.

There is undoubtedly an opportunity for Hibs to build a bigger fan base in Ireland and I'm surprised that the Club have not done more to build links with potential Irish supporters over the years. However, we aint going to attract hoards of fans from Dublin and beyond when we can't even get our local fan base to attend games due to the poor quality of football on show at Easter Road.

I do think the present Board are more comfortable in displaying our roots than Hibernian Boards of the past, and if we can get it right on the park, then the upcoming friendly with Bohemians added to an increased awareness in Hibs in the Emerald Isle due to our Irish Manager, might just start to build up some interest.

[Dinkydoo]

I think that our club name, strip colours and badge are enough to honour our Irish heritage and that any more would be a little over the top; and needless. Simplistically (or perhaps, fundamentally), we are a Scottish team in a Scottish league founded by Irishmen.

Although needless to say, it was a well balanced and thought out post by the original poster - I wish all flag debates were this amicable :greengrin

[clerriehibs]

Just thought I'd pose the question to the support in 2012. In relation to the club's heritage and how its future may develop, do you think the club today projects itself in a way that strikes the appropriate balance between its Irish roots and its place in twenty-first century Scottish society? Could our heritage be utilised more and to the club's advantage? Or do you think we actually make too much of the whole thing?

As a new member of the forum, it wouldn't be surprising if this topic has been discussed numerous times before and that some of you old hands are saying "not this again" or something similar. I apologise in advance if this is the case, but as a newbie I'm not to know, and would like to hear your thoughts.

I sometimes feel we play down the club's Irish heritage and influence, perhaps for fear of being dragged into the whole sectarian mire that surrounds the Old Firm. Such a concern is of course understandable, though I can't help think we're missing out a wee bit. Celtic, of course, play up to their Irish history to the hilt and reap the rewards of a huge Irish support. From the outset I would say that I definitely do not advocate Hibernian being a Celtic in miniature. I'm not talking about the support adopting a particular political or religious stance in the way it sometimes manifests itself at Parkhead. Hibernian is a fully inclusive and open club, welcoming all who wish to join, and this must always be paramount. The personal beliefs of the individual are of no consequence. Nor am I talking about turning ER into a tacky Irish theme park. I just sometimes think we hide our light under a bushel and don't make enough of the special 'selling point' we have; and apologies for phrasing that in the marketing sense. Our uniqueness is there in the name - Hibernian - and I think we could a bit more to explain what makes it special and the values it represents. 'More than a club' is how Barcelona put it regarding their Catalan heritage, and surely a club called Hibernian has a sense of identity that also goes beyond just eleven guys kicking a ball around. Or does it? Perhaps it doesn't. If it does, how should that be represented?


I'd like to hear what our Irish supporters think. Is there a potential pool of support in the country that we're missing out on? Would a greater role for the Irish dimension of the club's heritage be tokenistic?

Inclusive, progressive, broadminded. A celebration of cultural diversity. These are traits that I'm proud to say represent the Hibernian support in general and must always be upheld. Anything that underlines this should always be welcome.

Just a few thoughts. More questions than answers, granted.

:flag:


There's plenty clubs in Ireland for those who want to us embrace Ireland. Why use a Scottish club?

[The Harp]

I'd say we have the balance just about right (one of the few things that is right at ER just now). We have a fair number of fans who have a family connection with Irish immigration to Edinburgh in the mid/late 19th century, myself included. We also have fans with no links to Ireland, and we seem to get on pretty well (flag debates excepted :wink:).
IMO we're never going to increase our fan base in Ireland, or anywhere else for that matter, unless we achieve success on a regular basis. I'm a lot more concerned with which league we'll be playing in next season.

[Sunny1875]

As a Scotsman with a fairly mixed Irish/Scottish and Catholic/Protestant heritage i think that I would like to see more people at Easter Road.
I would like to those people to be watching a winning team from Edinburgh, Scotland who have a Castle, Harp and a Ship on their badge.

I have no concerns as to whether the people supporting my team are Catholic, Protestant, Jewish, Muslims or any other, White, Black, Brown, Yellow or any other colour on the spectrum.

I would like the visitors to our city from abroad to know the name of Hibernian Edinburgh, instead of the current two teams they do know. For this to happen we need to be marketed on the European market by appearing there in competition regularly.

Personally I think we should try to big up our heritage and try to attract those who have Ships or Castles and maybe we could persuade them to invest some of their wealth in the club.

[Niffy]

Formed in Edinburgh , always played in the Scottish League , we're Scottish.

Go support Celtic if you want to be Irish.

[Hibernia Na Eir]

It's a fantastic history and hugely important that our past be remembered by our kids for generations to come.
Erin go Bragh!!
GGTTH

[Holmesdale Hibs]

We're as Irish as we need to be IMO. I'm all for more colour at ER but I'd rather see a green Saltire than a tri-colour.

If we played in a different league without the OF then maybe, although I'd still rather focus on being Scottish.

[J-C]

The club left the Cowgate/southside in 1893, when they moved to Easter Road and joined the Scottish League, we became a community team but as has been said, our heritage is there to be seen in badge, name and colours, that is enough.

[Golden Bear]

The club left the Cowgate/southside in 1893, when they moved to Easter Road and joined the Scottish League, we became a community team but as has been said, our heritage is there to be seen in badge, name and colours, that is enough.

:agree:

[Hibernia&Alba]

What would you suggest?

It isn't an easy balance to strike. Hence all the question marks in my OP :greengrin



I think we do really well within the context of a Scottish society which has deep sectarian problems, to remain inclusive and welcoming to all, when we could easily have been dragged into the problem. And I also think that's something we can work with for the benefit of the club's future. In an increasingly multi-cultural country, we could be at the forefront of breaking through the old Catholic/Protestant divisions of the central belt that are all too often brought into the football stadia. Here's a club that was founded because a minority faced prejudice, and then, rather than insulate itself, looked outwards and embraced all. Celtic claim they have done same, but their political identity is very much Irish Republicanism. Now they can't have it both ways, and there is division within their support regarding this. We don't have that baggage; the support is more diverse in terms of politics and religion. The attitude here is much more each to their own. Same roots, different paths. They use their chosen path for their gain, and we could do the same. All those buses and buses of Irish fans that go to Parkhead. It could be the political dimension in addition to the success that attracts them, and I think the vast majority of us are agreed that Hibs should avoid political factionalism. But somebody mentioned the busloads that go to Old Trafford, Anfield and other English grounds. No religious or political baggage there. Some will simply be gloryhunters, but many will feel a deeper connection, and surely Hibernian can also 'sell' itself to win even a small percentage of those numbers.

Our history, IMO, provides us with an advantage that few clubs have. In Scotland we can say "here's a club that represents progressive decency. Anti-sectarian, anti-xenophobic, a history of inclusivity for minorities. Genuinely (take note Celtic) no political or religious requirements". In an ever more secular and diverse society we could be pioneers.

In Ireland we can say "here's a club that you can relate to. Whose very existence goes back to your country. Fancy playing a part in its future, free from ideological dogmatism"?

I just think there are pools of potential out there to whom we could say "guys, have you thought about Hibernian"?

These are just a few entirely personal thoughts of course. You may think they are either undesirable or unachievable. As a few replies in this thread have demonstrated, any discussion of these things can immediately raise accusations of sectarianism, but that doesn't have to be the case. Motivated by goodwill rather than division, I think we can grow, but of course it requires a team worth watching. At the end of the day we're a football club and we can't rely upon goodwill alone for future success.

[Spike Mandela]

Just thought I'd pose the question to the support in 2012. In relation to the club's heritage and how its future may develop, do you think the club today projects itself in a way that strikes the appropriate balance between its Irish roots and its place in twenty-first century Scottish society? Could our heritage be utilised more and to the club's advantage? Or do you think we actually make too much of the whole thing?

As a new member of the forum, it wouldn't be surprising if this topic has been discussed numerous times before and that some of you old hands are saying "not this again" or something similar. I apologise in advance if this is the case, but as a newbie I'm not to know, and would like to hear your thoughts.

I sometimes feel we play down the club's Irish heritage and influence, perhaps for fear of being dragged into the whole sectarian mire that surrounds the Old Firm. Such a concern is of course understandable, though I can't help think we're missing out a wee bit. Celtic, of course, play up to their Irish history to the hilt and reap the rewards of a huge Irish support. From the outset I would say that I definitely do not advocate Hibernian being a Celtic in miniature. I'm not talking about the support adopting a particular political or religious stance in the way it sometimes manifests itself at Parkhead. Hibernian is a fully inclusive and open club, welcoming all who wish to join, and this must always be paramount. The personal beliefs of the individual are of no consequence. Nor am I talking about turning ER into a tacky Irish theme park. I just sometimes think we hide our light under a bushel and don't make enough of the special 'selling point' we have; and apologies for phrasing that in the marketing sense. Our uniqueness is there in the name - Hibernian - and I think we could a bit more to explain what makes it special and the values it represents. 'More than a club' is how Barcelona put it regarding their Catalan heritage, and surely a club called Hibernian has a sense of identity that also goes beyond just eleven guys kicking a ball around. Or does it? Perhaps it doesn't. If it does, how should that be represented?


I'd like to hear what our Irish supporters think. Is there a potential pool of support in the country that we're missing out on? Would a greater role for the Irish dimension of the club's heritage be tokenistic?

Inclusive, progressive, broadminded. A celebration of cultural diversity. These are traits that I'm proud to say represent the Hibernian support in general and must always be upheld. Anything that underlines this should always be welcome.

Just a few thoughts. More questions than answers, granted.

:flag:

Will it make our players play better? If not, who cares!

[Since90+2]

It isn't an easy balance to strike. Hence all the question marks in my OP :greengrin



I think we do really well within the context of a Scottish society which has deep sectarian problems, to remain inclusive and welcoming to all, when we could easily have been dragged into the problem. And I also think that's something we can work with for the benefit of the club's future. In an increasingly multi-cultural country, we could be at the forefront of breaking through the old Catholic/Protestant divisions of the central belt that are all too often brought into the football stadia. Here's a club that was founded because a minority faced prejudice, and then, rather than insulate itself, looked outwards and embraced all. Celtic claim they have done same, but their political identity is very much Irish Republicanism. Now they can't have it both ways, and there is division within their support regarding this. We don't have that baggage; the support is more diverse in terms of politics and religion. The attitude here is much more each to their own. Same roots, different paths. They use their chosen path for their gain, and we could do the same. All those buses and buses of Irish fans that go to Parkhead. It could be the political dimension in addition to the success that attracts them, and I think the vast majority of us are agreed that Hibs should avoid political factionalism. But somebody mentioned the busloads that go to Old Trafford, Anfield and other English grounds. No religious or political baggage there. Some will simply be gloryhunters, but many will feel a deeper connection, and surely Hibernian can also 'sell' itself to win even a small percentage of those numbers.

Our history, IMO, provides us with an advantage that few clubs have. In Scotland we can say "here's a club that represents progressive decency. Anti-sectarian, anti-xenophobic, a history of inclusivity for minorities. Genuinely (take note Celtic) no political or religious requirements". In an ever more secular and diverse society we could be pioneers.

In Ireland we can say "here's a club that you can relate to. Whose very existence goes back to your country. Fancy playing a part in its future, free from ideological dogmatism"?

I just think there are pools of potential out there to whom we could say "guys, have you thought about Hibernian"?

These are just a few entirely personal thoughts of course. You may think they are either undesirable or unachievable. As a few replies in this thread have demonstrated, any discussion of these things can immediately raise accusations of sectarianism, but that doesn't have to be the case. Motivated by goodwill rather than division, I think we can grow, but of course it requires a team worth watching. At the end of the day we're a football club and we can't rely upon goodwill alone for future success.

Irish people are just not interested in the SPL even if our name is Hibernian.

This great myth that the whole of the Irish Republic like Celtic , or atleast have them as their second team , is complete nonsense IMO , I have many friends from Ireland and none of them have an affinity to Celtic who are generally successful and on TV every week so we have no chance of building a support from Ireland.

[marinello59]

Irish people are just not interested in the SPL even if our name is Hibernian.

This great myth that the whole of the Irish Republic like Celtic , or atleast have them as their second team , is complete nonsense IMO , I have many friends from Ireland and none of them have an affinity to Celtic who are generally successful and on TV every week so we have no chance of building a support from Ireland.

That's always been the impression I got. The English Premiership is what grabs the attention.

[Haymaker]

I worked with a fair few Irish lads this summer and they all supported celtc. And Leeds randomly.

By support, most of them couldn't name another SPL team than rangers mind. But they all had a shirt at least.

[Hibernia&Alba]

I worked with a fair few Irish lads this summer and they all supported celtc. And Leeds randomly.

By support, most of them couldn't name another SPL team than rangers mind. But they all had a shirt at least.

That's interesting, and must indicate there's more we could do.

[Since90+2]

I worked with a fair few Irish lads this summer and they all supported celtc. And Leeds randomly.

By support, most of them couldn't name another SPL team than rangers mind. But they all had a shirt at least.

I do find that strange TBH. If they are Celtic supporters I find it hard to believe they havent watched games on TV against Hearts , Hibs , Aberdeen ect so to not be able to name another team outside Rangers would suggest to me they arent supporters at all.

[pentlando]

If hibs made a concerted attempt to become more irish it would probably alienate me as a fan. We play, and have played in scotland throughout our history. We have the balance spot on at the moment. The irishness is in the name, badge and history books. Like a tree, our roots should be there but rarely seen. Something from our past should not become the focus of the present (which it would thanks to continuing sectarianism). If anyone wants an irish club there's plenty over the water. We don't need to become an irish franchise to attract support, just to simply win some games!

[marinello59]

It isn't an easy balance to strike. Hence all the question marks in my OP :greengrin



I think we do really well within the context of a Scottish society which has deep sectarian problems, to remain inclusive and welcoming to all, when we could easily have been dragged into the problem. And I also think that's something we can work with for the benefit of the club's future. In an increasingly multi-cultural country, we could be at the forefront of breaking through the old Catholic/Protestant divisions of the central belt that are all too often brought into the football stadia. Here's a club that was founded because a minority faced prejudice, and then, rather than insulate itself, looked outwards and embraced all. Celtic claim they have done same, but their political identity is very much Irish Republicanism. Now they can't have it both ways, and there is division within their support regarding this. We don't have that baggage; the support is more diverse in terms of politics and religion. The attitude here is much more each to their own. Same roots, different paths. They use their chosen path for their gain, and we could do the same. All those buses and buses of Irish fans that go to Parkhead. It could be the political dimension in addition to the success that attracts them, and I think the vast majority of us are agreed that Hibs should avoid political factionalism. But somebody mentioned the busloads that go to Old Trafford, Anfield and other English grounds. No religious or political baggage there. Some will simply be gloryhunters, but many will feel a deeper connection, and surely Hibernian can also 'sell' itself to win even a small percentage of those numbers.

Our history, IMO, provides us with an advantage that few clubs have. In Scotland we can say "here's a club that represents progressive decency. Anti-sectarian, anti-xenophobic, a history of inclusivity for minorities. Genuinely (take note Celtic) no political or religious requirements". In an ever more secular and diverse society we could be pioneers.

In Ireland we can say "here's a club that you can relate to. Whose very existence goes back to your country. Fancy playing a part in its future, free from ideological dogmatism"?

I just think there are pools of potential out there to whom we could say "guys, have you thought about Hibernian"?

These are just a few entirely personal thoughts of course. You may think they are either undesirable or unachievable. As a few replies in this thread have demonstrated, any discussion of these things can immediately raise accusations of sectarianism, but that doesn't have to be the case. Motivated by goodwill rather than division, I think we can grow, but of course it requires a team worth watching. At the end of the day we're a football club and we can't rely upon goodwill alone for future success.

We should be reaching out to the 'new' immigrants who live and work in Edinburgh if we really want to 'celebrate' our roots and build the fanbase. Look backwards at our history with pride and look forwards to build a brighter future.

[Haymaker]

I do find that strange TBH. If they are Celtic supporters I find it hard to believe they havent watched games on TV against Hearts , Hibs , Aberdeen ect so to not be able to name another team outside Rangers would suggest to me they arent supporters at all.

They didn't know much else about the SPL other than rangers, they seemed to only watch those games. A few knew other teams but not really anything about them. But they supported leeds fully for "the Irish connection".

[superbam]

Celtic's support here is nowhere near as prevalent as scottish celtic fans believe it is. The premiership is king.

There is plenty folk in Ireland who are sympathetic to Hibs due to our identity as outlined by the OP and have no time for the neo-fascist ethnic nationalism of sections of the celtic support. However, active interest ebbs and flows depending on our performance and if we are not even challenging for the top six it is unlikely there will be many more Irish supporters making the rip to Easter Road regardless of the club's marketing strategy.

Its disappointing to see how many hibs fans have fallen wholesale for celtic's propaganda and now equate irishness with celtic fc.

[Hibernia&Alba]

Celtic's support here is nowhere near as prevalent as scottish celtic fans believe it is. The premiership is king.

There is plenty folk in Ireland who are sympathetic to Hibs due to our identity as outlined by the OP and have no time for the neo-fascist ethnic nationalism of sections of the celtic support. However, active interest ebbs and flows depending on our performance and if we are not even challenging for the top six it is unlikely there will be many more Irish supporters making the rip to Easter Road regardless of the club's marketing strategy.

Its disappointing to see how many hibs fans have fallen wholesale for celtic's propaganda and now equate irishness with celtic fc.

Excellent post, IMHO.

[Scouse Hibee]

Mine is a simplistic view. I'm English with Irish roots which is something I never think of one bit unless someone brings it up because of my Surname. Likewise I live in Scotland and support a Scottish team which has irish roots which is something I never think of one bit unless someone else brings it up!

[NAE NOOKIE]

I'm a quarter Irish myself but as far as I am concerned Hibs have got the balance bang on with regard to the clubs roots. The thing about roots is that they are things you know are there, but not things you spend a lot of time thinking about. When I look at a Thistle in full bloom I think it looks fantastic and I get a wee patriotic thrill, but I dont spend a lot of time wondering what its roots are like.

Hibs for me are a Scottish football club and that is what we should celebrate. Tricolours are for the flagpole outside the Irish consulate ( if there is one in Edinburgh ) not the stands at ER lets leave that to the plastic paddys and the same goes for Erin go Bragh flags too. Also lets not forget that when Hibs were founded there was no such flag as the tricolour anyway.

If Hibs are to project an image to the wider world which involves its heritage I would like it to be by promoting the fact that the club was founded in adversity and had to face a lot of prejudice in the early years because its founder members were outsiders. IMO that makes ( or should make ) Hibs the natural club of choice for the working classes ( if such a thing exists anymore ) and folk who are a wee bit outside of the establishment.

I have always thought of Hibs as the common mans ( and womans ) club, whereas the Yams are the club of the establishment. Thats what Hibs and its supporters should really be playing on. A bit like Everton do on Merseyside.

As they say in Ireland ...... Undough yer Bragh

Oh and by the way I thought the OP got a bit of an unjustified unfair hard time from some quarters for posting what was a reasonable and well thought out question.

[stubble]

Proud of both my Scottish and Irish roots..as well as my club....Happy to see all pursuasions at ER.....Tibetan Monks; Buddhists; Converts from across the toon; Darwinists and eco-friendly warriors. Everyone's money is good money.:cb

[Hibernia Na Eir]

We should be reaching out to the 'new' immigrants who live and work in Edinburgh if we really want to 'celebrate' our roots and build the fanbase. Look backwards at our history with pride and look forwards to build a brighter future.

well said :)

[Hibernia Na Eir]

Celtic's support here is nowhere near as prevalent as scottish celtic fans believe it is. The premiership is king.

There is plenty folk in Ireland who are sympathetic to Hibs due to our identity as outlined by the OP and have no time for the neo-fascist ethnic nationalism of sections of the celtic support. However, active interest ebbs and flows depending on our performance and if we are not even challenging for the top six it is unlikely there will be many more Irish supporters making the rip to Easter Road regardless of the club's marketing strategy.

Its disappointing to see how many hibs fans have fallen wholesale for celtic's propaganda and now equate irishness with celtic fc.

re the last paragraph, I think the Hibs fans you mean are those who, like myself, are staunchly proud of our Irish roots and our clubs fantastic Irish upbringing, but find themselves at odds with a sizeable chunk of hibbies who couldn't give a monkeys about our clubs creation, founding fathers and incredibly rich and unique history. THAT is what I suggest is falling wholesale for another propaganda. I think you understand what I mean....
this debate does get very tedious!

[Hibernia Na Eir]

re the last paragraph, I think the Hibs fans you mean are those who, like myself, are staunchly proud of our Irish roots and our clubs fantastic Irish upbringing, but find themselves at odds with a sizeable chunk of hibbies who couldn't give a monkeys about our clubs creation, founding fathers and incredibly rich and unique history. THAT is what I suggest is falling wholesale for another propaganda. I think you understand what I mean....
this debate does get very tedious!

well said !

[clerriehibs]

Celtic's support here is nowhere near as prevalent as scottish celtic fans believe it is. The premiership is king.

There is plenty folk in Ireland who are sympathetic to Hibs due to our identity as outlined by the OP and have no time for the neo-fascist ethnic nationalism of sections of the celtic support. However, active interest ebbs and flows depending on our performance and if we are not even challenging for the top six it is unlikely there will be many more Irish supporters making the rip to Easter Road regardless of the club's marketing strategy.

Its disappointing to see how many hibs fans have fallen wholesale for celtic's propaganda and now equate irishness with celtic fc.

I equate Irishness with Ireland ... Hibs are Scottish.

[superbam]

re the last paragraph, I think the Hibs fans you mean are those who, like myself, are staunchly proud of our Irish roots and our clubs fantastic Irish upbringing, but find themselves at odds with a sizeable chunk of hibbies who couldn't give a monkeys about our clubs creation, founding fathers and incredibly rich and unique history. THAT is what I suggest is falling wholesale for another propaganda. I think you understand what I mean....
this debate does get very tedious!

You misunderstood me completely. I was referring to hibs fans who become extremely defensive when the Irish aspect of our club's identity is even mentioned - see some of the treatment of the perfectly reasonable OP in this thread.

I understand that there are many hibs fans to whom the irish connection does not have relevance and that is fine, we are a broad church. Much like the leith connection means a lot to some, nothing to others. But those to whom the irish dimension is important should not be considered some kind of celtic sympathisers. It has hee haw to do with celtic. I was referring to those who cannot see irish identity beyond its cartoon representation by celtic and the context of the west of scotland sectarian goldfish bowl. That is falling for celtic propaganda.

[superbam]

If Hibs are to project an image to the wider world which involves its heritage I would like it to be by promoting the fact that the club was founded in adversity and had to face a lot of prejudice in the early years because its founder members were outsiders. IMO that makes ( or should make ) Hibs the natural club of choice for the working classes ( if such a thing exists anymore ) and folk who are a wee bit outside of the establishment.
Oh and by the way I thought the OP got a bit of an unjustified unfair hard time from some quarters for posting what was a reasonable and well thought out question.

I would agree with that :agree:

[Hibernia Na Eir]

You misunderstood me completely. I was referring to hibs fans who become extremely defensive when the Irish aspect of our club's identity is even mentioned - see some of the treatment of the perfectly reasonable OP in this thread.

I understand that there are many hibs fans to whom the irish connection does not have relevance and that is fine, we are a broad church. Much like the leith connection means a lot to some, nothing to others. But those to whom the irish dimension is important should not be considered some kind of celtic sympathisers. It has hee haw to do with celtic. I was referring to those who cannot see irish identity beyond its cartoon representation by celtic and the context of the west of scotland sectarian goldfish bowl. That is falling for celtic propaganda.

I see what yer saying mate, good points. We are Hibernian, never Celtic.

[Hibernia&Alba]

You misunderstood me completely. I was referring to hibs fans who become extremely defensive when the Irish aspect of our club's identity is even mentioned - see some of the treatment of the perfectly reasonable OP in this thread.

I understand that there are many hibs fans to whom the irish connection does not have relevance and that is fine, we are a broad church. Much like the leith connection means a lot to some, nothing to others. But those to whom the irish dimension is important should not be considered some kind of celtic sympathisers. It has hee haw to do with celtic. I was referring to those who cannot see irish identity beyond its cartoon representation by celtic and the context of the west of scotland sectarian goldfish bowl. That is falling for celtic propaganda.

In the first post I mentioned the fact that we are sometimes reticent to discuss the issue for fear of being accused of sectarianism. One or two, who I can only think didn't read my post properly, did exactly that. This is where hiding our light under a bushel comes in. I think we can use our history to project the club in a positive way which doesn't cause divisions within the support or wider society. I agree with you regarding the illegitimate claim from some quarters at Parkhead for the support of every Irish football fan, and I think that with the right product on the pitch and with the offer of a more inclusive non-political and non-religious Hibernian, there could be potenial growth within Ireland and Scotland. Possibly not, but it's a thought. I just think that our history, in combination with our modern day values could be used to greater advantage. To me Hibernian is more than merely a football club. It's a community with a history of inclusivity; a coalition of people of goodwill. A positive alternative to what we see in the Old Firm and sometimes at Gorgie. The club was formed to help a section of society that was excluded from the mainstream - who were dispossessed. Using that example in a modern day context is a possibility. Previous posters have mentioned reaching out to Edinburgh's more recent immigrant populations. And there are other groups we could work to attract. The example of Hibernian's birth and past to demonstrate who we are today. Very few clubs could do the same with such legitimacy, even if they wanted to.

[brianmc]

I have not an Irish bone in my body-or indeed a bit of auld country DNA , however after 21 years of, East East East stand season ticket behind me then I would hope for a better ****in Hibs for Hibs sake and bollocks to the rest.

[monktonharp]

I have not an Irish bone in my body-or indeed a bit of auld country DNA , however after 21 years of, East East East stand season ticket behind me then I would hope for a better ****in Hibs for Hibs sake and bollocks to the rest.are you totally sure that you have nae connection wi Aul' Ireland?:greengrin all Hibees are searching for the same thing brother/comrade/fellow hibby but I dont see a problem with the OP'S questions. in fact it has started a very reasonable debate ,rather than a can o' worms. the one problem I do have is that far to many on here seem to think that he is saying that we should be wallowing in the fact that we originated from Ireland ,and should act like we are Irish as if that would help us be much bigger. the facts are that we did originate from Irish immagrants,and from areas like the Coo'gate,Tron Square,Soothside and surrounding areas thousands of Hibs related families have been dispersed all over the toon and outlying areas, but there is still a bond with our origins. why try and deny it. naebody was suggesting that we pick up an armelite and fight for a cause, were they? and why is there a problem with the original flag of Hibernian fc? that one really puzzles me. It's almost like trying to figure out why O'Connor is getting a start.

[Pete]

In the first post I mentioned the fact that we are sometimes reticent to discuss the issue for fear of being accused of sectarianism. One or two, who I can only think didn't read my post properly, did exactly that. This is where hiding our light under a bushel comes in. I think we can use our history to project the club in a positive way which doesn't cause divisions within the support or wider society. I agree with you regarding the illegitimate claim from some quarters at Parkhead for the support of every Irish football fan, and I think that with the right product on the pitch and with the offer of a more inclusive non-political and non-religious Hibernian, there could be potenial growth within Ireland and Scotland. Possibly not, but it's a thought. I just think that our history, in combination with our modern day values could be used to greater advantage. To me Hibernian is more than merely a football club. It's a community with a history of inclusivity; a coalition of people of goodwill. A positive alternative to what we see in the Old Firm and sometimes at Gorgie. The club was formed to help a section of society that was excluded from the mainstream - who were dispossessed. Using that example in a modern day context is a possibility. Previous posters have mentioned reaching out to Edinburgh's more recent immigrant populations. And there are other groups we could work to attract. The example of Hibernian's birth and past to demonstrate who we are today. Very few clubs could do the same with such legitimacy, even if they wanted to.

I have an Irish heritage and am quite insulted by those who point blank refuse to discuss the matter. It's as if they are embarrassed to even be associated with anything Irish. I also think a lot of people on this board are hypocritical as well as plain ignorant when it comes to matters of Irish republicanism. Perhaps they should ask people around the world their view on who the "terrorists" who "kill innocent people" are in the whole sorry saga.

The above shouldn't be replied to...it's just my opinion on certain matters and my starting point for discussions. I know Hibees who have considerably stronger republican leanings as well as others who lean the other way and are staunch unionists. You can substitute the subject of Ireland for things like politics, religion...or practically anything and I think we would find no common, specific trait apart from Hibernian FC. That's the beauty of our club.

I've enjoyed reading your posts and are 100% correct in the assessment of our club. I agree that we have a lot going for us that is untapped but I think you are looking in the wrong area and not close enough to home.

I think we have enough Irish representation. We are green to the core and will never change. It's unfortunate but any escalation will be too little, too late. Playing on Irishness is what Celtic have done to their great fortune and would be a total no-no.
The mistake they have made is that not only have they done this, they have tried to be some sort of "all things to all men" club. A left wing club for freedom fighters. However, as you pointed out, their tie in with Irish republicanism totally contradicts this stance. People who are in the armed forces aren't welcome at Parkhead...this is hardly "inclusive". I don't know one Unionist Celtic fan.

I think it's fair to say that we can command a fairly unique position in Scottish football. The only major football club in the central belt with a true history of inclusion and open-mindedness. Celtic have tried too hard recently to market themselves in a left wing manner, bending over to clubs like Liverpool, St Pauli and anyone else who they feel is worthy. It's fake and people know this.
I think Hibs, as a club, should look around Leith with a bit more savvy and then look at the city we are in when it comes to marketing the club. Edinburgh is one of the most beautiful cities in the world and people flock here at all times of the year. We also have one of the biggest student populations in the country. As for Leith...how diverse can you get? There are large foreign communities in what can be described as the most vibrant and fashionable part of the city. The top of Leith walk is frequented by the homosexual community on a nightly basis and is famous all over Scotland. It's where you want to go for a good night out if that's your way.
Celtic FC would kill to be situated in Leith as everything around our ground is exactly the market they think they are entitled to. The facts are that Celtic park is in a slum and Glasgow isn't as nice or as tolerant as Edinburgh.

All of this "family club" marketing is pointless. There's a "family club" in every town and there's a "family club" in gorgie that wins more games than we do.

We should be looking to become a "cult" club...because I think that's what we are already if a football club is a reflection of the community it is in.
Easter Road should be the venue when it comes to multi-cultural festivals. It should also be the venue for any events that celebrate homosexuality and diversity and it should also be a place where groups who campaign against discrimination of any kind are welcome to hold events.
Why not hold an annual music festival during the festival showcasing new bands and giving a platform to bigger ones? You could even have it over a weekend!


The above ideas should be the tip of the iceberg. If any other club were to come out with these plans and ideas it would be fake but for ourselves it simply wouldn't be. We are unique and so is Edinburgh and I think we have the potential to become more than a football club.

[BSEJVT]

Hibernia & Alba

If you want an Irish club go to Ireland.

No Irish heritage or connection in our family, all protestants, no catholics, but we are on fourth generation Hibernian fans and have a direct family member who was in the famous five.

We're in it for the FOOTBALL.

Sorry to be so blunt. It's just the way I feel.

Exactly as it is for me although we may go back more generations:greengrin

But dont have any famous five ancestry:not worth

[Baker9]

We should be reaching out to the 'new' immigrants who live and work in Edinburgh if we really want to 'celebrate' our roots and build the fanbase. Look backwards at our history with pride and look forwards to build a brighter future.

Ok. Let's say I have gathered 1000 immigrants together and given you the opportunity to present Hibs to them. Using our Irish roots and growth from adversity what would you actually say to them that would have them queuing at the ticket office?

[Bostonhibby]

We use an amendment of the Roman word for Ireland as our team name. We have green and white strips and as noted above, we have a harp in our badge and were formed by Irish Catholics in the Cowgate and never shirk or disguise this fact (note: We were formed in Edinburgh as when I last checked, St Pats and the Cowgate were in the city boundaries, even of old, just :greengrin) and then moved to Leith....and then to Easter Road (also in Edinburgh).

That said, we are a Scottish club as we are based in Edinburgh which is the capital city of Scotland. We compete in league run by the Scottish Football Association and we compete internationally (rarely) as a Scottish team.

I see no need to try and be plasticated and kid on to be what we are not. For that, you have one Glasgow Celtc. They play up to oirishness, kid on they're Irish/wish they were Irish yet are also similar to ourselves in regard to their Scottishness, much to their pity and to our annoyance.

We know who we are. Why know where we come from and we know where we are going. We dont sign players based on anything other than fitba ability and (recently) cost :cb but, we're certainly no sectarian.

Im happy with Hibs as they are. Everyone's money is welcome at Easter Road and there's nae hassle with ANYONE supporting the cause.

Everything else, is pish.

ENDOF

:agree: every word, this is where I am on the subject.

I have some Irish family connections but thats not how I came to support Hibs, we have an honourable history, the club was founded for the right reasons and has nearly always done things the right way, our fans care.

I don't see that religion has got anything at all do do with football, at least not in the way that some fans apply it. As a Scottish Patriot, born in Leith and living in England, throughout all these hard times on the pitch I remain very proud of my clubs generally cosmopolitan modern history and outlook and when explaining the difference between us and the OF and goings on at the diet huns to any incredulous English fan its not too difficult to differentiate between us and say why we are different.

Personally I'd like to see the club forming better links with the newly emerging Polish community in and around Leith. Potentially untapped fan base there.
GGTTH

[Lungo--Drom]

A great thread.

I am Scots-Irish descended down through ma Dad's side of the family. Some in my family support Celtic but in 1978 I decided at age 10 that I liked the Hibernian jersey colours. I decided to put an end to the ribbing and hassle at school cause numpties were always asking, "Who do you support pal, Rangers or Celtic?" Telling them Hibs usually resulted in confusion and they walked off, looking for a better victim to interrogate.

That said I am a believer in a 32 county Irish Republic and love all things Irish, apart from the current debt crisis. Like another poster though, having Irish blood is not why I started supporting Hibs, it was the jersey colours I liked as a kid.

Yes I like singing a rebel song or two but NOT at a football match. The place for rebel songs as far as I am concerned is in a Republican boozer or club, not at a sports venue. I remember Smelltic fans harassing Hibbies outside Darkheid once, shouting, "The I, the I, the IRA." To me that sums up the difference between Hibs and Smelltic supporters. The Hibbies are football supporters and I'd say 40% of the Smelltic fans are just beer swilling faux IRA plastic paddies who probably have stickers of leprechauns on their locker doors at work.

I think Hibs current badge sums it all up perfectly with the balance spot on and shows the different threads of our teams history. For anyone wanting "more Irishness" stand back a wee minute and think, just as another poster said, we have green in the home jersey, a harp in the badge and the team name is Latin for Ireland, so translated into English the team name is Irish FC.

If you need more Irishness in a football team then go and live in Ireland I suggest. Heritage is always important and must never be forgotten or hidden in shame but let's keep it about the FOOTBALL! :)

GGTTH

[NAE NOOKIE]

I have an Irish heritage and am quite insulted by those who point blank refuse to discuss the matter. It's as if they are embarrassed to even be associated with anything Irish. I also think a lot of people on this board are hypocritical as well as plain ignorant when it comes to matters of Irish republicanism. Perhaps they should ask people around the world their view on who the "terrorists" who "kill innocent people" are in the whole sorry saga.

The above shouldn't be replied to...it's just my opinion on certain matters and my starting point for discussions. I know Hibees who have considerably stronger republican leanings as well as others who lean the other way and are staunch unionists. You can substitute the subject of Ireland for things like politics, religion...or practically anything and I think we would find no common, specific trait apart from Hibernian FC. That's the beauty of our club.

I've enjoyed reading your posts and are 100% correct in the assessment of our club. I agree that we have a lot going for us that is untapped but I think you are looking in the wrong area and not close enough to home.

I think we have enough Irish representation. We are green to the core and will never change. It's unfortunate but any escalation will be too little, too late. Playing on Irishness is what Celtic have done to their great fortune and would be a total no-no.
The mistake they have made is that not only have they done this, they have tried to be some sort of "all things to all men" club. A left wing club for freedom fighters. However, as you pointed out, their tie in with Irish republicanism totally contradicts this stance. People who are in the armed forces aren't welcome at Parkhead...this is hardly "inclusive". I don't know one Unionist Celtic fan.

I think it's fair to say that we can command a fairly unique position in Scottish football. The only major football club in the central belt with a true history of inclusion and open-mindedness. Celtic have tried too hard recently to market themselves in a left wing manner, bending over to clubs like Liverpool, St Pauli and anyone else who they feel is worthy. It's fake and people know this.
I think Hibs, as a club, should look around Leith with a bit more savvy and then look at the city we are in when it comes to marketing the club. Edinburgh is one of the most beautiful cities in the world and people flock here at all times of the year. We also have one of the biggest student populations in the country. As for Leith...how diverse can you get? There are large foreign communities in what can be described as the most vibrant and fashionable part of the city. The top of Leith walk is frequented by the homosexual community on a nightly basis and is famous all over Scotland. It's where you want to go for a good night out if that's your way.
Celtic FC would kill to be situated in Leith as everything around our ground is exactly the market they think they are entitled to. The facts are that Celtic park is in a slum and Glasgow isn't as nice or as tolerant as Edinburgh.

All of this "family club" marketing is pointless. There's a "family club" in every town and there's a "family club" in gorgie that wins more games than we do.

We should be looking to become a "cult" club...because I think that's what we are already if a football club is a reflection of the community it is in.
Easter Road should be the venue when it comes to multi-cultural festivals. It should also be the venue for any events that celebrate homosexuality and diversity and it should also be a place where groups who campaign against discrimination of any kind are welcome to hold events.
Why not hold an annual music festival during the festival showcasing new bands and giving a platform to bigger ones? You could even have it over a weekend!


The above ideas should be the tip of the iceberg. If any other club were to come out with these plans and ideas it would be fake but for ourselves it simply wouldn't be. We are unique and so is Edinburgh and I think we have the potential to become more than a football club.

Agree with a lot of this. But we would do well to avoid getting ourselves associated with too many unpopular causes, only because the idea is to grow the clubs fanbase, not to alienate the general public. In saying that I'm not thinking of any particular group or groups, just that we would do well to avoid getting involved in the more extreme end of politics and such like.

But I do agree, and have said on here before, that we ( Hibs ) should do more to encourage the diverse communities in and around Edinburgh to see Hibs as their club of choice.

That is why anybody found singing the 'Edinburgh is wonderfull' song anywhere within a 100 mile radius of Easter Road should be banned for life from the stadium or anything else to do with Hibs, football or society in general. I have managed to get over the result of THAT semi final over the years, but not over the shame of hearing a bunch of neds outside the ground in Hibs colours singing that song and the thought that anybody listening would think that Hibs supporters, especially this Hibs supporter, had anything but contempt for the words of that pile of disgusting, racist bile. The last time I looked a pointy hood with eye holes cut in it was not part of the Hibs kit.

When you look at the history of this club it is quite frankly astonishing that anyone who purports to support it should act in that way. If you want to then sod off and join the KKK or the national front, but stay away from my football club !!!

Sorry for the rant ... this stuff makes my blood boil.

[ginger_rice]

Great discussion and I'm really pleased that it hasn't descended into the usual "flag debate".

I like the OP and replies by BM and Peter Douglas especially.

I'm certainly of the opinion as many are that Hibs have the balance right, the clubs name and badge tells you exactly where the clubs roots lie, they are a bit like my own, Irish decent, Scottish born and proud to be a modern Scot.

To be honest Peter I always thought Hibs were a bit of a "cult club" they were certainly seen that way in Stirling in the early '70's. I've loved this club since the first time I went to Easter Road, I've always felt that we were an inclusive club.

The fact that we have such diverse views on this subject shows just how diverse our support is......can you imagine this thread on FF, Kerrydale St or keechback?

[marinello59]

Ok. Let's say I have gathered 1000 immigrants together and given you the opportunity to present Hibs to them. Using our Irish roots and growth from adversity what would you actually say to them that would have them queuing at the ticket office?

Think about the ethos that brought our club in to existence and then you may see where I am coming from with that one. (I don't recall saying we would have people queuing at the ticket office either. :confused: It was the OP who see's this as a marketing ploy, I merely offered an alternative take for the modern day.)

[Dashing Bob S]

Formed in Edinburgh , always played in the Scottish League , we're Scottish.

Go support Celtic if you want to be Irish.

Why? By your rationale Celtic are less Irish than us.

Formed in Glasgow (as a copy of Hibs) always played in the Scottish League (despite trying to get into England with Rangers)...

[neilmartinrocks]

I always thought that for the first 15 years of our existence you had to be an Irish Catholic to play for Hibernian. Wasn't untill reforming after the Celtic tried to bury us that this was done away with.

[Baker9]

Think about the ethos that brought our club in to existence and then you may see where I am coming from with that one. (I don't recall saying we would have people queuing at the ticket office either. :confused: It was the OP who see's this as a marketing ploy, I merely offered an alternative take for the modern day.)

I was considering it from a marketing view and appreciate your OP comment. I really cannot see anything about the ethos that would do us any good at all in attracting immigrants or for that matter any 'floating' supporters in and around Edinburgh. The immigrants have come to Edinburgh, not to Ireland. They would not be in the least moved by our history (it doesn't rank very high in the history of European struggles). Sell them the Edinburgh of now and not sob stories from 100+ years ago.

[marinello59]

I was considering it from a marketing view and appreciate your OP comment. I really cannot see anything about the ethos that would do us any good at all in attracting immigrants or for that matter any 'floating' supporters in and around Edinburgh. The immigrants have come to Edinburgh, not to Ireland. They would not be in the least moved by our history (it doesn't rank very high in the history of European struggles). Sell them the Edinburgh of now and not sob stories from 100+ years ago.

:confused: Sob stories? A strange term to dismiss our history. On a thread where a potentially divisive subject has been debated reasonably that comment jars a wee bit. Probably just the way it comes across on here. You do seem to have totally misunderstood my point by the way. Where have I mentioned using 'Irishness' to sell our club to anybody? A club set up for the benefit of immigrants to Edinburgh reaching out to modern day immigrants to Edinburgh...................I know, it was a mad idea to make that sort of connection.