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Tyler Durden
19-02-2012, 05:17 PM
Yes, Celtic are a class side and we were always going to struggle today but 3 points in particular I think PF has dropped the ball on.

1. Tactics today. Obviously hindsight is 20/20 but going in today with 4-4-2 was naive. We should have went 5 in midfield in some fashion and played for scraps. Doyle was well out his depth and he must have known he'd toil against Wilson and Rogne.
2. On that theme, the decision to let Sodje go looks a mistake IMO. We have 4 forwards, all of similar style, none of them great at holding the ball up or offer us an aerial threat. And yet we continue to throw the ball into them in the air? If Sodje was part of this pack that were bad influences around the club, then it's the manager's job to sort him out and get a contribution from him, not just discard him. We'll continue to struggle while our forwards can't hold the ball up and bring midfield into play.
3. Continuing loss of goals from corners/set pieces. We've changed the personnel often enough and yet it's still the same results, we lose headers from 6/8 yards out. The manager has to take responsibility - whatever they do during the week hasn't fixed this and it's unacceptable.

Anyway, onwards and upwards............surely.

jamesjamieson
19-02-2012, 05:23 PM
Calderwood league record: P15, W3, D4, L8 (14 points)
No manager league record: P2, W0, D1, L1 (1 point)
Fenlon league record: P10, W1, D2, L7 (5 points)

Fenlon needs 9 points from the next 5 games to equal Calderwood's poor league record prior to his sacking. 0-5 to Celtic is Hibs worst home defeat since September 1985.

Is anyone hopeful our lovable Irishman can stop the rot? I'm not. :worried:

Betty Boop
19-02-2012, 05:25 PM
Calderwood league record: P15, W3, D4, L8 (14 points)
No manager league record: P2, W0, D1, L1 (1 point)
Fenlon league record: P10, W1, D2, L7 (5 points)

Fenlon needs 9 points from the next 5 games to equal Calderwood's poor league record prior to his sacking. 0-5 to Celtic is Hibs worst home defeat since September 1985.

Is anyone hopeful our lovable Irishman can stop the rot? I'm not. :worried:

Love your avatar ! :greengrin

stubble
19-02-2012, 05:31 PM
Outclassed. End of. No Hibs line up was ever going to stop Celtic in their current mood and form. PF can only do what he can do with the players at his disposal. Doyle was one of many lacking today. My concern with him is that he appears out of his depth at SPL level, always a yard off the pace and lightweight. He is a trier, I'll give him that.
:cb

jamesjamieson
19-02-2012, 05:33 PM
Love your avatar ! :greengrin

Cheers! Photo courtesy of Gordon ballboy (http://www.ballboymusic.com/news/).

Erm, I meant 13 points not 14 points...

Beefster
19-02-2012, 05:44 PM
Outclassed. End of. No Hibs line up was ever going to stop Celtic in their current mood and form. PF can only do what he can do with the players at his disposal. Doyle was one of many lacking today. My concern with him is that he appears out of his depth at SPL level, always a yard off the pace and lightweight. He is a trier, I'll give him that.
:cb

Fenlon signed 8 of the 14 players to feature today.

Hibs7
19-02-2012, 05:47 PM
What a load of bull the keeper was at fault for 3 of the goals, new one required ASAP.

Famous Fiver
19-02-2012, 05:51 PM
I am willing to shout from the rooftops to everyone carping on here
HIBS WILL STAY UP.

We have a goal difference four better than Dunfermline so only another 5 goal defeat at Motherwell during the week will send us to the bottom of the league.

Even then we've got enough to finish above Dunfermline.

END OF.

stubble
19-02-2012, 05:53 PM
Fenlon signed 8 of the 14 players to feature today.

And I repeat he can only do what he can do with the players at his disposal -including all the new faces. I'm impressed with some of the individuals he has signed, but it is a desperate make-shift Hibs side -designed to keep us in the SPL. PF is trying his best to gel all the new faces, but a rampant Celtic were always going to test and stretch our defence and a Hibs side thrown together so quickly.

GreenCastle
19-02-2012, 05:55 PM
Yes, Celtic are a class side and we were always going to struggle today but 3 points in particular I think PF has dropped the ball on.

1. Tactics today. Obviously hindsight is 20/20 but going in today with 4-4-2 was naive. We should have went 5 in midfield in some fashion and played for scraps. Doyle was well out his depth and he must have known he'd toil against Wilson and Rogne.
2. On that theme, the decision to let Sodje go looks a mistake IMO. We have 4 forwards, all of similar style, none of them great at holding the ball up or offer us an aerial threat. And yet we continue to throw the ball into them in the air? If Sodje was part of this pack that were bad influences around the club, then it's the manager's job to sort him out and get a contribution from him, not just discard him. We'll continue to struggle while our forwards can't hold the ball up and bring midfield into play.
3. Continuing loss of goals from corners/set pieces. We've changed the personnel often enough and yet it's still the same results, we lose headers from 6/8 yards out. The manager has to take responsibility - whatever they do during the week hasn't fixed this and it's unacceptable.

Anyway, onwards and upwards............surely.

Fenlon is still the one to improve us and take us forward :agree:

Today we were taking on a Celtic side top of the league and flying - best team in the SPL by quite some way.

I do agree about Sodje - but Fenlon must have not seen it that way. Doyle has great movement but still needs help up top or the ball to feet all the time.

Regarding corners and set pieces - today was like the first half of the season and not like the recent Killie game when we were solid defensively. Makes such a difference if you defend and do the basics - today that didn't happen and was very poor.

Beefster
19-02-2012, 05:55 PM
I am willing to shout from the rooftops to everyone carping on here
HIBS WILL STAY UP.

We have a goal difference four better than Dunfermline so only another 5 goal defeat at Motherwell during the week will send us to the bottom of the league.

Even then we've got enough to finish above Dunfermline.

END OF.

You do realise that the goal difference can change until the end of the season?

As for the rest, I think that that kind of "we're too big/good/better to go down" is dangerous (and totally unwarranted). We've scored less than anyone else in the SPL, our defence is only 'bettered' by Dunfermline, our recent form is no better than theirs and we've just suffered the heaviest defeat in the SPL this season.

Tyler Durden
19-02-2012, 06:42 PM
What a load of bull the keeper was at fault for 3 of the goals, new one required ASAP.

When Fenlon was appointed we were losing headed goals in our own box - we're still doing so. He has to take some blame for failing to resolve this by now.

On the Sky coverage, Neil McCann was talking about how he bumped into Billy Brown pre match and Brown said "it's a tough job ahead of us". How about this muppet actually starts doing something tangible to solve our problems instead of talking about it. PF should have bulleted him when he came in.

On the positive side, at least that's the last we'll see of Celtic this season. Hopefully the likes of Soares and Griffiths coming back into the team can have an impact against Well and Killie.

smurf
19-02-2012, 07:31 PM
Naive to play two up front IMHO.

Doyle has shown promise but he's lightweight. Starting today was a mistake. His failure to hold the ball up v Aberdeen left us exposed at times.

Very surprised not to go with five in midfield.

ehf
19-02-2012, 07:39 PM
Seldom seen a striker with such poor anticipation/awareness as Doyle. Should never have let Sodje go.

NorthNorfolkHFC
19-02-2012, 07:45 PM
Naive to play two up front IMHO.

Doyle has shown promise but he's lightweight. Starting today was a mistake. His failure to hold the ball up v Aberdeen left us exposed at times.

Very surprised not to go with five in midfield.

I don't think it was naivety, many people on here like a wee greet when we stick with one up top at home.

I think the problem is wee don't have a striker who can hold the ball, this makes one up top problematic.

O'Connor cant play with his back to goal, neither can Doyle or Griffiths. We are in desperate need of a Brewster type player who can take the ball, keep possession and hold up play allowing us to gain territory up the park.

Famous Fiver
19-02-2012, 07:49 PM
Beefster

Under your name it says Coaching Staff.

Thank god you're not my coach.

Why don't you get behind your team and encourage it instead of whining like a jet engine?

blackpoolhibs
19-02-2012, 07:52 PM
We were poor today, nobody gets a mark above 6. I dont think Fenlon or the fans would have expected a performance like that from the team?

Celtic will thrash a few sides this season, they played well and we gifted them at least 3 of the goals.

Its games against the rest of the teams that will matter, i did not expect any points today, but it would have been a nice surprise if we had.

That was not the case, but we had some terrible displays from some players, players who have never played that badly before.

I'm putting today down to a bad day, roll on Wednesday. :thumbsup:

JimBHibees
19-02-2012, 07:55 PM
We were poor today, nobody gets a mark above 6. I dont think Fenlon or the fans would have expected a performance like that from the team?

Celtic will thrash a few sides this season, they played well and we gifted them at least 3 of the goals.

Its games against the rest of the teams that will matter, i did not expect any points today, but it would have been a nice surprise if we had.

That was not the case, but we had some terrible displays from some players, players who have never played that badly before.

I'm putting today down to a bad day, roll on Wednesday. :thumbsup:

Completely agree, bad day at the office. Move on the good thing about football is you have a game soon after to repair what went before. It is a reality check and hopefully will make the team more determined against Well.

bighairyfaeleith
19-02-2012, 07:56 PM
Time to get behind the team and put today behind us.

We got two good draws in recent weeks and I fancy us to cuff motherwell midweek.

Beefster
19-02-2012, 07:59 PM
Beefster

Under your name it says Coaching Staff.

Thank god you're not my coach.

Why don't you get behind your team and encourage it instead of whining like a jet engine?

I was at the game today, supporting my team.

I was criticising your thinking and saying that there is nothing to justify it. Our form is worse now than it was under Calderwood.

chrisski33
19-02-2012, 08:32 PM
http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/mobile/football/17091849

Being 2nd bottom of league should be enough of a wake call not just getting thumped by celtic

renato
19-02-2012, 08:32 PM
We were poor today, nobody gets a mark above 6. I dont think Fenlon or the fans would have expected a performance like that from the team?

Celtic will thrash a few sides this season, they played well and we gifted them at least 3 of the goals.

Its games against the rest of the teams that will matter, i did not expect any points today, but it would have been a nice surprise if we had.

That was not the case, but we had some terrible displays from some players, players who have never played that badly before.

I'm putting today down to a bad day, roll on Wednesday. :thumbsup:

Completely agree BH. Combination of quite a few factors but all in all just a very bad day at the office. Wednesday is the one that matters and we'll bring a large and noisy support again. Hopefully the players respond and we get something from the game!

marinello59
19-02-2012, 08:33 PM
We were poor today, nobody gets a mark above 6. I dont think Fenlon or the fans would have expected a performance like that from the team?

Celtic will thrash a few sides this season, they played well and we gifted them at least 3 of the goals.

Its games against the rest of the teams that will matter, i did not expect any points today, but it would have been a nice surprise if we had.

That was not the case, but we had some terrible displays from some players, players who have never played that badly before.

I'm putting today down to a bad day, roll on Wednesday. :thumbsup:

Agree. If we had taken anything today it was a bonus. Roll on Wednesday.:thumbsup:

silverhibee
19-02-2012, 08:39 PM
You do realise that the goal difference can change until the end of the season?

As for the rest, I think that that kind of "we're too big/good/better to go down" is dangerous (and totally unwarranted). We've scored less than anyone else in the SPL, our defence is only 'bettered' by Dunfermline, our recent form is no better than theirs and we've just suffered the heaviest defeat in the SPL this season.


My son just said to me that Hibs have scored 12 goals at ER this season and that celtc have scored 10, worrying if true.

NORTHERNHIBBY
19-02-2012, 08:43 PM
There is criticism that is practical and there is criticism for the sake of it. I would have said that 4-4-2 was maybe a wee bit hopeful against Celtc but TBH even if we hadn't handed them goals, they still would have found them today. Fenlon has one target for this season and that is to finish above Dunfermline. We can hoo-hah all day about top four and top six and where this club should be, but that won't happen this season.

Andy74
19-02-2012, 08:46 PM
I was at the game today, supporting my team.

I was criticising your thinking and saying that there is nothing to justify it. Our form is worse now than it was under Calderwood.

Perhaps the actual run of results is worse. I don't really care as the performances behind them have been far better. Today apart we are actually creating things and competing. We didn't do that under CC.

Part/Time Supporter
19-02-2012, 08:46 PM
My son just said to me that Hibs have scored 12 goals at ER this season and that celtc have scored 10, worrying if true.

That's more or less correct if you count their four in the league cup tie, but does not count the goals Hibs have scored in cup ties at home.

Wheat Hound
19-02-2012, 08:51 PM
My son just said to me that Hibs have scored 12 goals at ER this season and that celtc have scored 10, worrying if true.

Have they not actually scored 11? 0-2,1-4 and 0-5? Depressing regardless.

Beefster
19-02-2012, 08:52 PM
Perhaps the actual run of results is worse. I don't really care as the performances behind them have been far better. Today apart we are actually creating things and competing. We didn't do that under CC.

I've already said that our form was better under Calderwood - that's not an opinion. How that doesn't count as competing or creating things but poorer form does is beyond me.

And I'd suggest that we need to start worrying about results rather than performances pretty soon.

Tyler Durden
19-02-2012, 09:01 PM
There is criticism that is practical and there is criticism for the sake of it. I would have said that 4-4-2 was maybe a wee bit hopeful against Celtc but TBH even if we hadn't handed them goals, they still would have found them today. Fenlon has one target for this season and that is to finish above Dunfermline. We can hoo-hah all day about top four and top six and where this club should be, but that won't happen this season.

I'm not calling for Fenlon's head or anything, I think he could well be the man to take us forward. It's not going to happen over night but I think he's made things more difficult for himself in some regards.

I do think however, that the failure of the coaching team to improve our defending from set pieces is pretty criminal. No point in our overall performances improving if we keep gifting goals each time we concede a corner. Seems quite practical to expect this is resolved.

HKhibby
19-02-2012, 10:20 PM
I'm not calling for Fenlon's head or anything, I think he could well be the man to take us forward. It's not going to happen over night but I think he's made things more difficult for himself in some regards.

I do think however, that the failure of the coaching team to improve our defending from set pieces is pretty criminal. No point in our overall performances improving if we keep gifting goals each time we concede a corner. Seems quite practical to expect this is resolved.


still sceptical about Fenlon!, didnt think he was the right choice from the beginning...and still dont!, but giving the guy a chance, hope he works out for his sake and especially for Hibs sake!, but we shall see come end of the season

Greenblood70
19-02-2012, 10:36 PM
In the last couple of games prior to today i thought we were back to doing the basics well, today we seemed to give Celtic far too much space all over the pitch and conceeded cheap goals again. I'm hoping it was a bad day and we'll turn up again midweek, lets face it we need at least a point against Well.

carlos70
19-02-2012, 10:43 PM
Hibs didn't turn up today but let's face it, Celtic have done that to their last few opponents: Inverness and Hertz spring to mind. I remember when Hibs used to play like that, and it wasn't too long ago...

Newhaven
19-02-2012, 10:46 PM
My son just said to me that Hibs have scored 12 goals at ER this season and that celtc have scored 10, worrying if true.

Excludes the cup games but that is a shocking stat :boo hoo:

matty_f
19-02-2012, 10:49 PM
He should have gone 5 in the midfield, however that's easy said in hindsight and if we did that and got cuffed I'm sure a lot of us would have been on saying that he should have stuck with 4-4-2 and had a go. Who'd be a manager, eh?

Truth is that the tactics didn't work today. I don't think the team selection was right either, though it was understandable given the players available and how those players performed against Killie and Aberdeen.

We gifted Celtc goals, the first was poor defending at the corner. Stack should have come for it though he did have Hooper blocking him. He needed to be stronger and go for it, chances are he'd have got a free-kick if he came for it and was blocked.

Second goal came from a poor pass on the edge of Celtc's penalty area, and again slack defending gave a good striker an opportunity he wasn't going to pass up.

The third came from our own kick off, FFS. I'm not sure it was a foul, but once it was given Stack has to do better with his positioning. It was a good free kick, but definitely save-able. Fourth goal, Wotherspoon goes chasing the ball and leaves Francombe with two to mark, he goes with one and leaves Hooper free, again the shot was poor and Stack should have saved it.

Their fifth goal, the boy knew nothing about it but it was poor defending again.

The biggest issue I have with today is just how much more up for it Celtc were than us. They worked harder than us in every single position bar none. From first whistle to last there was only going to be one winner. I wish these Hibs players had a bit of belief about them, and if they've got belief I wish they had the work ethic to go with it.

We are running out of games to sort out the season.

IberianHibernian
19-02-2012, 10:50 PM
Celtic didn`t seem to miss many chances today ( 5 goals from about 9 chances though no doubt they could have had more if they`d needed them ) but fortunately opponents in coming weeks won`t be as ruthless ( Killie , Aberdeen etc also had chances against us ) but we`ve got to take our chances too ( Stevenson , Wotherspoon and Osborne all missed good chances in first half ) .

Paisley Hibby
19-02-2012, 11:32 PM
We were poor today, nobody gets a mark above 6. I dont think Fenlon or the fans would have expected a performance like that from the team?

Celtic will thrash a few sides this season, they played well and we gifted them at least 3 of the goals.

Its games against the rest of the teams that will matter, i did not expect any points today, but it would have been a nice surprise if we had.

That was not the case, but we had some terrible displays from some players, players who have never played that badly before.

I'm putting today down to a bad day, roll on Wednesday. :thumbsup:

Spot on Blackpool :agree:

JimBHibees
20-02-2012, 04:02 PM
He should have gone 5 in the midfield, however that's easy said in hindsight and if we did that and got cuffed I'm sure a lot of us would have been on saying that he should have stuck with 4-4-2 and had a go. Who'd be a manager, eh?

Truth is that the tactics didn't work today. I don't think the team selection was right either, though it was understandable given the players available and how those players performed against Killie and Aberdeen.

We gifted Celtc goals, the first was poor defending at the corner. Stack should have come for it though he did have Hooper blocking him. He needed to be stronger and go for it, chances are he'd have got a free-kick if he came for it and was blocked.

Second goal came from a poor pass on the edge of Celtc's penalty area, and again slack defending gave a good striker an opportunity he wasn't going to pass up.

The third came from our own kick off, FFS. I'm not sure it was a foul, but once it was given Stack has to do better with his positioning. It was a good free kick, but definitely save-able. Fourth goal, Wotherspoon goes chasing the ball and leaves Francombe with two to mark, he goes with one and leaves Hooper free, again the shot was poor and Stack should have saved it.

Their fifth goal, the boy knew nothing about it but it was poor defending again.

The biggest issue I have with today is just how much more up for it Celtc were than us. They worked harder than us in every single position bar none. From first whistle to last there was only going to be one winner. I wish these Hibs players had a bit of belief about them, and if they've got belief I wish they had the work ethic to go with it.

We are running out of games to sort out the season.

I think in hindsight you are right Lewis in the middle with Claros and Ozzy would have worked better as Claros and Ozzy dont have the energy to close down well enough especially against better teams. Could have played Francomb wide right with Spoony left. It will be interesting to see if he perseveres with Claros and Ozzy in the middle as I think he played 451 quite alot when Bohemians manager. If he does then Griffiths would be my choice up front. Wouldnt be a complete shock if he started this way on Wednesday.

In saying that Hibs played some decent stuff in the first half and on another day could have scored one or two however were ultimately beaten by a better team though contributed hugely to our demise with awful mistakes.

yekimevol
21-02-2012, 11:01 AM
Of course fenlon deserves criticized his team were beaten 5-0 and during the game he did nothing to change the system.

His 4-1-3-2 was terrible in the celtic match, their midfield destroyed ours, there wide players had it easy with spoony and stevenson coming narrow to help out ozzy then having to try and get wide again to help the full backs out doherty was a great example of this spoony was nowhere to help because he was stuck in limbo trying to support ozzy in center midfield.

when your team goes two goals down you change it, as far as i remember fenlon never changed it bar making personnel changed to his 4-1-3-2. when going with a flat 4-4-2 system could have been better.

basehibby
21-02-2012, 12:31 PM
Naive to play two up front IMHO.

Doyle has shown promise but he's lightweight. Starting today was a mistake. His failure to hold the ball up v Aberdeen left us exposed at times.

Very surprised not to go with five in midfield.

:agree: That's my take as well and Fenlon has to take it on the chin as the man who put the team out. Regardless of improved personnel, we are still a very pale shadow of the Celtic team man for man and that's why I'm surprised he stayed with 4-4-2.

Mind you, we probably stilll would have gotten beat with a 4-5-1 - but at least you then have somewhere to go by putting extra forwards on. Most of the goals were served up on a silver platter through our own errors, but even that withswtanding we were still second best all over the pitch.

It looks like Fenlon overestimated the significance of a couple of clean sheets and underestimated the quantum leap that exists between us and Celtic at the moment - for that he should take the rap but should not lose an inch of our support. Onwards and upwards - bring on the 'well!!!

SlickShoes
21-02-2012, 01:24 PM
When Fenlon was appointed we were losing headed goals in our own box - we're still doing so. He has to take some blame for failing to resolve this by now.

On the Sky coverage, Neil McCann was talking about how he bumped into Billy Brown pre match and Brown said "it's a tough job ahead of us". How about this muppet actually starts doing something tangible to solve our problems instead of talking about it. PF should have bulleted him when he came in.

On the positive side, at least that's the last we'll see of Celtic this season. Hopefully the likes of Soares and Griffiths coming back into the team can have an impact against Well and Killie.

HAHAHAHAHAHA @ bold.

So Hibernian staff should not talk to any other people whilst we are not performing well? Get a grip mate. BB is working under PF, if PF is not happy with BB then he will get rid of him.

whiskyhibby
21-02-2012, 01:47 PM
Calderwood league record: P15, W3, D4, L8 (14 points)
No manager league record: P2, W0, D1, L1 (1 point)
Fenlon league record: P10, W1, D2, L7 (5 points)

Fenlon needs 9 points from the next 5 games to equal Calderwood's poor league record prior to his sacking. 0-5 to Celtic is Hibs worst home defeat since September 1985.

Is anyone hopeful our lovable Irishman can stop the rot? I'm not. :worried:


Your not RudyT on broke back by any chance.........

basehibby
21-02-2012, 02:43 PM
Calderwood league record: P15, W3, D4, L8 (14 points)
No manager league record: P2, W0, D1, L1 (1 point)
Fenlon league record: P10, W1, D2, L7 (5 points)

Fenlon needs 9 points from the next 5 games to equal Calderwood's poor league record prior to his sacking. 0-5 to Celtic is Hibs worst home defeat since September 1985.

Is anyone hopeful our lovable Irishman can stop the rot? I'm not. :worried:

Yes - I'm very hopeful that Fenlon can get us moving in the right direction again - admittedly Sunday's showing would have many people wondering though.

Jonnyboy
21-02-2012, 08:12 PM
Naive to play two up front IMHO.

Doyle has shown promise but he's lightweight. Starting today was a mistake. His failure to hold the ball up v Aberdeen left us exposed at times.

Very surprised not to go with five in midfield.

Crucially though Pat Fenlon accepted he'd taken a gamble and it had backfired. I found it quite refreshing that the gaffer owned up and didn't try to lay the blame on others :agree:

Tyler Durden
21-02-2012, 08:22 PM
HAHAHAHAHAHA @ bold.

So Hibernian staff should not talk to any other people whilst we are not performing well? Get a grip mate. BB is working under PF, if PF is not happy with BB then he will get rid of him.

That's not what I said. Brown did plenty of tough talking when Calderwood brought him on board, we heard how he wouldn't suffer fools gladly. He repeated all this when applying for the job about how big a task it was. He is still going on about it now nearly 6 months later. In that time he's made no discernible difference to most of our problems. We're still losing simple goals from corners for example. What exactly does Brown do on the training ground?

He's all talk IMO, a dinosaur that we're apparently keeping around for his knowledge of Scottish football. I'd be quite glad to see the back of him.