370+ die in Comayagua jail fire

[Hibbyradge]

Is this being reported in the UK?

It's horrific.

[cabbageandribs1875]

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-latin-america-17038259


at least 272 prisoners dead

[frazeHFC]

Jeez that's terrible news. RIP all those that died.

[Lofarl]

No one deserves a horrific death like that.

[.Sean.]

Shame, but could've happened in far worse places than a Prison.

[easty]

Shame, but could've happened in far worse places than a Prison.

What's a worse place than prison?

[Future17]

Shame, but could've happened in far worse places than a Prison.


What's a worse place than prison?

:greengrin

[HUTCHYHIBBY]

What's a worse place than prison?

Match day @ Tynie!

[hibsbollah]

Shame, but could've happened in far worse places than a Prison.

Explain this.

[The Green Goblin]

Shame, but could've happened in far worse places than a Prison.

Hmmm. An interesting view of it. Knowing what we do now, maybe on 9/11, we should say "shame, but it could have happened in worse places than the world's financial centre, full of traders and bankers"?

Hey, I think I got the hang of it!!!

[HUTCHYHIBBY]

Explain this.

I get the feeling he means a school or hospital or something along those lines, If so, I would tend to agree.

[Pete]

Shame, but could've happened in far worse places than a Prison.

I know what you're saying but nobody deserves to die like that. Well, some people might but that's another topic.

Around 50% of people in there were on remand and hadn't even faced trial.

[hibsbollah]

I know what you're saying but nobody deserves to die like that. Well, some people might but that's another topic.

Around 50% of people in there were on remand and hadn't even faced trial.

Maybe the ones who werent on remand deserved to be burned to death?

I cant believe the direction this thread has gone in.

[Pete]

Maybe the ones who werent on remand deserved to be burned to death?

I cant believe the direction this thread has gone in.

Reign it in. :cool2:

I believe some people do actually deserve to die like that...or maybe worse. It depends on the suffering they inflicted on their victims. I would lose no sleep if Peter Tobin or Ian huntley died in that fashion.

I don't believe in capital punishment and what people "actually deserve" isn't always what the courts decide. Popular opinion sometimes gets it right...and I'm sure in the most heinous of cases judges have been bound by sentencing laws which they find can only give totally inappropriate punishments.

[The Green Goblin]

I believe some people do actually deserve to die like that...or maybe worse

I don't believe in capital punishment.

Beautiful. Self-contradiction of the year! In the same post too.

[--------]

Maybe the ones who werent on remand deserved to be burned to death?

I cant believe the direction this thread has gone in.


I can.

In this world, tools rule. :bitchy:

[Beefster]

Beautiful. Self-contradiction of the year! In the same post too.

Is it really? It can't be contradictory to be against capital punishment but be capable of effectively thinking "hey ho, karma's a bitch" when someone bad dies, surely?

Edit: I'm talking generally incidentally, not in relation to the Honduran jail.

[The Green Goblin]

Is it really? It can't be contradictory to be against capital punishment but be capable of effectively thinking "hey ho, karma's a bitch" when someone bad dies, surely?

Edit: I'm talking generally incidentally, not in relation to the Honduran jail.

That's not exactly what he said though. He said he believed "some people deserve to die like that...and worse". That is actually wishing death upon someone and not the same thing as saying "what goes around comes around" when "bad" things happen to "bad" people. Was living out their lives in such a miserable place not karma enough? Bad karma need not mean "a horrible death" or even just "death" alone. The contradiction for me lies in the fact that he proactively supported the idea of such people being killed because they "deserve" it but then stated he didn't believe in the death penalty.

[.Sean.]

Explain this.

Hospital, Orphanage, School etc would be brutal places for such a devastating fire. Prison less so.

[--------]

That's not exactly what he said though. He said he believed "some people deserve to die like that...and worse". That is actually wishing death upon someone and not the same thing as saying "what goes around comes around" when "bad" things happen to "bad" people. Was living out their lives in such a miserable place not karma enough? Bad karma need not mean "a horrible death" or even just "death" alone. The contradiction for me lies in the fact that he proactively supported the idea of such people being killed because they "deserve" it but then stated he didn't believe in the death penalty.

One of the main arguments against the death penalty is that the way human justice works, the innocent are always going to suffer random injustice sooner or later.

So I assume that this Karma bloke specialises in accurately-aimed natural disasters specifically designed to take out the bad guys and ONLY the bad guys?



Hospital, Orphanage, School etc would be brutal places for such a devastating fire. Prison less so.

I'm sure that that must be a huge comfort to the bereaved families.

You wouldn't like to post up your league table of "places where a good fire isn't such a bad thing", would you? Top Ten, maybe, Top Twenty? Where does the Bradford football stand fire come on your list? Napalming Viet Cong? (I LOVE the smell of napalm in the morning!) A couple of bankers trapped in a burning car? Lawyers, maybe?

I think we should be told.

[The Green Goblin]

One of the main arguments against the death penalty is that the way human justice works, the innocent are always going to suffer random injustice sooner or later.

So I assume that this Karma bloke specialises in accurately-aimed natural disasters specifically designed to take out the bad guys and ONLY the bad guys?

I'm a bit confused at what to make of that to be honest. I didn't say I believed in karma, I simply pointed out that "karma" doesn't necessarily mean extreme misfortune. I was criticising the sentiments in the post I quoted. I genuinely can't tell if you are agreeing or disagreeing with what I wrote there. Can you let me know? Pls? cheers.

[--------]

I'm a bit confused at what to make of that to be honest. I didn't say I believed in karma, I simply pointed out that "karma" doesn't necessarily mean extreme misfortune. I was criticising the sentiments in the post I quoted. I genuinely can't tell if you are agreeing or disagreeing with what I wrote there. Can you let me know? Pls? cheers.


Sorry, GG. My bad entirely. I'm agreeing with you - though not making myself clear, obviously - for which I apologise.

I agree with those who would contend that there are offenders whose crimes are so appalling that death is an appropriate and fitting punishment, and if that's what the law decrees, then so be it, you might say.

But the problem there is that the law - human law - will ALWAYS sooner or later get it badly wrong, and hang/gas/electrocute/strangle/stone/whatever an innocent person to death. So I can't say 'so be it' to the death penalty.

Human law destroys the innocent randomly from time to time. That's the most compelling argument against judicial execution I know. I was trying to be funny and wondering whether 'this Karma bloke' was actually any more accurate in taking out only the bad guys than a human court would be. Sorry - I was being facetious and it came out wrong.

You were absolutely right - there IS a contradiction in opposing the death penalty, but approving the death of some 'bad person' in a tragedy like the one we're discussing. Those prisoners suffered, horribly, and I can't understand anyone taking pleasure in that, or even giving their consent to that suffering on the basis of what goes around, comes around.

Sorry, it's been a BAD DAY over in the Caldera. :wink:


As for the idea of it somehow being more OK for prisoners to be burned to death than other sorts of people...

Superficially I can see how someone can say that a fire in an orphanage that kills 300 plus is worse than a fire in a prison that kills 300 plus - until I start to think about the men trapped in their cells with no one coming to release them, their families outside watching, helpless to do anything to rescue their loved ones, the pain and agony and grief that all that entails.

THEN I just don't see how anyone can make value judgments about human suffering at such a level and on such a scale. I can't discount or devalue the suffering of those poor men simply because they were in prison.

[The Green Goblin]

Many thanks and no problem. Great food for thought as ever from you. I agree wholeheartedly with everything you said.

Cheers!

[Pete]

That's not exactly what he said though. He said he believed "some people deserve to die like that...and worse". That is actually wishing death upon someone and not the same thing as saying "what goes around comes around" when "bad" things happen to "bad" people. Was living out their lives in such a miserable place not karma enough? Bad karma need not mean "a horrible death" or even just "death" alone. The contradiction for me lies in the fact that he proactively supported the idea of such people being killed because they "deserve" it but then stated he didn't believe in the death penalty.


I'm afraid Beefster was more accurate interpreting what I said than yourself. I certainly don't "wish death" on anyone or "proactively support people being killed" in that fashion. I stand by my statement saying that is what some people "deserve", though. I think there is a difference between stating what people "deserve" and agreeing with the process of actually carrying out such a punishment.
For some crimes, I believe that living out your life in prison isn't punishment enough....and I don't believe it is "karma enough" either. Bad karma might actually mean a horrible death in my opinion but I wouldn't advocate the deliberate manufacture of such circumstances or take particular pleasure in the outcome. If this happened to the criminal who commited the worst possible crime I would indeed say that "he got what he deserved"....a sort of natural justice where he felt the same pain and terror that he put his victims through.

I don't believe that the state should be carrying out any sort of capital punishment though. If mistakes are made then there's no going back. Some people don't deserve to live in my opinion but I don't think any sort of civilized society should lower itself to murder.

Maybe it looked contradictory on the face of it but I think there are two different subjects here...what people "deserve" in the grand scheme of things and the states right to implement the death penalty and its limits.
Surely the two can be separated?:dunno:

[hibsbollah]

Reign it in. :cool2:

I believe some people do actually deserve to die like that...or maybe worse. It depends on the suffering they inflicted on their victims. I would lose no sleep if Peter Tobin or Ian huntley died in that fashion.

I don't believe in capital punishment and what people "actually deserve" isn't always what the courts decide. Popular opinion sometimes gets it right...and I'm sure in the most heinous of cases judges have been bound by sentencing laws which they find can only give totally inappropriate punishments.

You're the one who made the reference to the remand prisoners. Why bring it up in the first place if not to make the point that they were somehow less deserving of this karmic in-jail-roasting?