Next season

[dirtydirk]

Tom farmer and Petrie should proper go for it. Make a statement to the fans and give fenlon a decent budget. We are probably the only club in the spl other than Celtic who could actually spend some money. This could be a massive opportunity to actually get ourselves right in the European mix of things. Hearts and rangers are going to be considerably weaker and all the other teams don't have money to spend either. If we got Europa league even then the money we can get is a massive return. All this providing we don't get relegated

[bingo70]

It's 'proper going for it' that has got other teams in this mess, even in the off chance of doing well in Europe wouldn't give that big a return, look at aberdeen when they got through the group stages a few years ago.

What we need to do is keep on spending the most that we can afford and hope that other teams budgets continue to drop so we're still paying more than them while not increasing our budget to more than we can afford

[DC_Hibs]

Tom farmer and Petrie should proper go for it. Make a statement to the fans and give fenlon a decent budget. We are probably the only club in the spl other than Celtic who could actually spend some money. This could be a massive opportunity to actually get ourselves right in the European mix of things. Hearts and rangers are going to be considerably weaker and all the other teams don't have money to spend either. If we got Europa league even then the money we can get is a massive return. All this providing we don't get relegated

How much should we "go for it" Dirky? We made a c£900k loss in the last financial year to 31/7/2011 so should be push that out to £2m?

Our crowds have dropped further and we have again signed around 8 players in each of the two windows with others being paid off so I can't see the year to 31/7/2012 being any better unless we got to the cup final perhaps.

Come on............

[Mikey]

Will our fans "proper go for it" and bother their arse to go to the games?

[sahib]

We are on course to having, by far, the biggest budget in the 1st division.

[dirtydirk]

Our balance sheet isn't that great but that's based on the business running itself. I'm talking about farmer giving us a couple of million from his own pocket which is basically all it would take to secure a Europa place in the current setup. If we make it to the league stages, the prize money, potential sell outs and tv revenue could see him recoup this money.

[CRAZYHIBBY]

The op does have a good point. If ever there was a time to take a gamble then its now. .....unfortunately its hibs we are talking about and the gamble for us is too much to take

[Ozyhibby]

Instead of spending money we have not got and risking the future of the club, why not get together with the other non old firm clubs to vote in a salary cap of £5m per season for all clubs. This would bring Celtic back into the pack and allow far greater competition in the league.

[dirtydirk]

We as a club don't have the money but the point I'm trying to make is that if the rich lists are anything to go by, our owner clearly has the money. There is not a better time to invest than the next transfer window. Sir Tom has probably invested higher amounts in stocks and shares in the past and I understand this opportunity carries the risk of us not achieving European football, however with the rangers and hearts troubles, this risk is getting lower and lower

[DC_Hibs]

Our balance sheet isn't that great but that's based on the business running itself. I'm talking about farmer giving us a couple of million from his own pocket which is basically all it would take to secure a Europa place in the current setup. If we make it to the league stages, the prize money, potential sell outs and tv revenue could see him recoup this money.

OK so you now accept that Hibs can't afford it and the suggestion is now STF pays it from his own pocket.

Ther is even less chance of that happening than Hibs funding it.

[Andy74]

We as a club don't have the money but the point I'm trying to make is that if the rich lists are anything to go by, our owner clearly has the money. There is not a better time to invest than the next transfer window. Sir Tom has probably invested higher amounts in stocks and shares in the past and I understand this opportunity carries the risk of us not achieving European football, however with the rangers and hearts troubles, this risk is getting lower and lower

How much are you going to stick in?

[Scouse Hibee]

Tom farmer and Petrie should proper go for it. Make a statement to the fans and give fenlon a decent budget. We are probably the only club in the spl other than Celtic who could actually spend some money. This could be a massive opportunity to actually get ourselves right in the European mix of things. Hearts and rangers are going to be considerably weaker and all the other teams don't have money to spend either. If we got Europa league even then the money we can get is a massive return. All this providing we don't get relegated

Fenlon has already been given a decent budget in this window, lets see where we finish and back the manager accordingly!

[dirtydirk]

How much are you going to stick in?

It's not my business and it's not a charity so bit of a stupid question. Merely making a suggestion that this is a good opportunity for farmer to maybe make a slight return by investing his own money

[greenlex]

Instead of spending money we have not got and risking the future of the club, why not get together with the other non old firm clubs to vote in a salary cap of £5m per season for all clubs. This would bring Celtic back into the pack and allow far greater competition in the league.
:agree: Wouldn't cost anything either.

[CropleyWasGod]

It's not my business and it's not a charity so bit of a stupid question. Merely making a suggestion that this is a good opportunity for farmer to maybe make a slight return by investing his own money

STF hasn't got where he is today (Perrin) by throwing money where he "might make a slight return."

In other words, why would he?

[Ray_]

Will our fans "proper go for it" and bother their arse to go to the games?

They did before Mickey, when there was something worth watching, bringing not only record levels of season tickets, but also record levels of merchandise & hospitality packages sales as well. The other point is that even although the renascence didn't last too long, before players sales & diminishing quality started to hit, it had made a significant impact on income & would have continued to do so, if the upward spiral hadn't turned so decisively to downward.

P.S. This is just in answer to your question & not the post in general.

[Andy74]

It's not my business and it's not a charity so bit of a stupid question. Merely making a suggestion that this is a good opportunity for farmer to maybe make a slight return by investing his own money

It's not a stupid question. Hibs are run as a self sustaining business and you are asking someone to stick some of their own cash in there.

If it's a decent investment opportunity, as you say, then how much would you put in? You seem to think that you can accumulate from this so why not?

[silverhibee]

Will our fans "proper go for it" and bother their arse to go to the games?



Only one way to find that out Mikey. :greengrin

[dirtydirk]

It's not a stupid question. Hibs are run as a self sustaining business and you are asking someone to stick some of their own cash in there.

If it's a decent investment opportunity, as you say, then how much would you put in? You seem to think that you can accumulate from this so why not?

We are not that self sustainable when we are now reporting losses. Farmer needs to either invest and take a risk in order to try and achieve a return or basically sell up as the way things are, then he will continue to report losses. My initial point was relating to the fact that if farmer has wealth in the £75 million region, then is one or two million really going to have an impact on his day to day living.

[ScottB]

A Rangersless SPL will mean a notable drop in income, we are already spending too much. Like everyone else we'd be making big cuts.

[Wotherspiniesta]

Where do people get this idea that we have money to spend? Bottom 6 finishes, dropping attendances and early cup exits= losing money.

I'd rather we stick by our manager, back him within reason, get our best performers (Ozzy, Leigh etc) to sign up long term, blood a couple more youngsters and aim for the top 6.

Rather that than spend money, still end up no better than 3rd and end up going into administration in a few years.

[Andy74]

We are not that self sustainable when we are now reporting losses. Farmer needs to either invest and take a risk in order to try and achieve a return or basically sell up as the way things are, then he will continue to report losses. My initial point was relating to the fact that if farmer has wealth in the £75 million region, then is one or two million really going to have an impact on his day to day living.

You can be self sustaining if you can service your losses and debt.

So, Farmer has wealth? I'd ask again, are you going to start by handing over the same percentage of what you might have spare?

[proud_and_green]

We are not that self sustainable when we are now reporting losses. Farmer needs to either invest and take a risk in order to try and achieve a return or basically sell up as the way things are, then he will continue to report losses. My initial point was relating to the fact that if farmer has wealth in the £75 million region, then is one or two million really going to have an impact on his day to day living.

Why should he? You have already said that HFC are not a charity, so again why should he? HFC are a company which aims to trade profitably within its own means - that is the way to future growth. What STF has provided over the last years - apart from the obvious rescue is a safety net which i have no doubt he would deploy if we were in danger, but i don't think that he could or should be expected to throw money in. Too many clubs have suffered from exactly that, big ego benefactors chucking money in, which then have long term recurring costs for the club as well as increased expectations for continued investment and ultimately a dissappointed support.

[dirtydirk]

the amount I talked about is about 3% of his wealth. Bearing in mind pay day is next week for me, I'm currently on my way down to Easter road with my novelty sized cheque for £6

[--------]

Will our fans "proper go for it" and bother their arse to go to the games?


A lot of the fans who have stayed away (including me, I admit it) have been doing so because freezing our backsides off watching a team that couldn't care less put out by a manager who couldn't care less and wondering exactly where the owner and CEO were taking us in the long run and receiving little or no information or encouragement in that regard had ceased to be an attractive way of spending Saturday afternoons, Mikey.

I have been back - once - recently, and what I saw encouraged me. I'll be back again soon, and hopefully I'll be more encouraged then. Baby steps, Mikey - Hibs have a greater propensity for pissing off their supporters than any other team I know.

I can't see a one-off gamble of £2m from Farmer's own pocket f=making any lasting difference; what I DO want to see is the team being given a higher priority - financial and otherwise - in coming seasons, now that the infrastructure is in place. The present manager seems to be sorting out the squad - long overdue, IMO - and has what appears to be an eye for a player and the ability to motivate players who hitherto have been less than fully committed to the cause. Most of our present squad are here on short-term contracts or loan agreements, so the summer transfer window will tell us a lot about how PF sees the future, and about how likely he is to achieve what he's setting out to do.

But some if us do need to be convinced that things HAVE changed decisively, Mikey.

[CropleyWasGod]

the amount I talked about is about 3% of his wealth. Bearing in mind pay day is next week for me, I'm currently on my way down to Easter road with my novelty sized cheque for £6

Again, why would he?

[proud_and_green]

the amount I talked about is about 3% of his wealth. Bearing in mind pay day is next week for me, I'm currently on my way down to Easter road with my novelty sized cheque for £6

What about the value of your car, house, furniture any other assets you have. STF's £75m isn't what he gets paid each month but the total of his wealth including property, investments etc.

What would the likely gain from this investment be for STF?

Mind you there are many threads on this board that say STF should not be allowed to make a profit from any of his investments in the club.

What about the year after that when it doesn't quite do it or we want a further investment to sustain the challenge?

What it seems to me that Hibs are building is a long term future which allows us to stay in business, mount a campaign each year and hopefully improve each year. Your proposal would not assist in any of that.

[Spike Mandela]

Why not just stop paying tax and invest that in the team. Appears to a legitimate strategy for success. Maybe if we are really lucky we could enter administration, wipe out the debt and start again. Only stumbling block is we would need to ensure we were more than 10 points off the bottom. Right who is up for it:wink::greengrin

Well why not?:dunno:

[Phil MaGlass]

Our balance sheet isn't that great but that's based on the business running itself. I'm talking about farmer giving us a couple of million from his own pocket which is basically all it would take to secure a Europa place in the current setup. If we make it to the league stages, the prize money, potential sell outs and tv revenue could see him recoup this money.

I can see the way youre thinking, were about the only club(barring sellik) that doesnt have alot of debt and a one off injection might pay good dividends next season. I would like to seee a wee bit cash injected, but the fans would have to start turning up again to cover costs. I really hope the buns are not allowed in the SPL next season

[Stevie Reid]

We are on course to having, by far, the biggest budget in the 1st division.


Fenlon has already been given a decent budget in this window, lets see where we finish and back the manager accordingly!

:agree:

The feeling around ER and the performances on the park have improved dramatically since Fenlon came in, but we are still level on points with the bottom team in the SPL with games running out. I'd prefer to think about next season when there's considerably more certainty regarding what league we will be playing in.

[Spike Mandela]

I can see the way youre thinking, were about the only club(barring sellik) that doesnt have alot of debt and a one off injection might pay good dividends next season. I would like to seee a wee bit cash injected, but the fans would have to start turning up again to cover costs. I really hope the buns are not allowed in the SPL next season

We have a large mortgage, made a near £1m loss last year and are surely heading for a huge loss this year, what makes you think we don't have a lot of debt?

[MacBean]

:agree:

The feeling around ER and the performances on the park have improved dramatically since Fenlon came in, but we are still level on points with the bottom team in the SPL with games running out. I'd prefer to think about next season when there's considerably more certainty regarding what league we will be playing in.


:confused: Are we?


Completely understand everyones comments about why would TF stick in say £2million to Hibs on a gamble that he gets a return ( it makes little sense), however you state that it would raise fan expectations etc and they would want to see the same constantly etc.

What would you say if someone had won the Euro millions and felt like sticking £2million (and not looking for a financial return) into their beloved club?

We can't use "Increased Expectations" as a reason not to invest, we just have to hope that a madman from section43 wins the euromillions on Friday so he can pump some spondoolies into ER :greengrin

[Phil MaGlass]

From what I recall we have a managable debt and made a loss last year, the reason were heading for a loss this year was poor decisions on a manager who didnae want to be here and fans that were fed up with mediocrity. We have shifted the mediocrity, the club should now be looking upwards instead of back/down and try to build on what we have at the moment,with a manager who is saying and oing all the right things at the moment, decent players on loan need to be decent players on a decent contract.
Were not saying break the bank, but a bit of investment could see good returns(granted not guaranteed) hertz house will sooner or later come tumbling down, the buns house is on the verge we have to be ready to take advantage, NO?

[Spike Mandela]

We have a large mortgage, made a near £1m loss last year and are surely heading for a huge loss this year, what makes you think we don't have a lot of debt?


From what I recall we have a managable debt and made a loss last year, the reason were heading for a loss this year was poor decisions on a manager who didnae want to be here and fans that were fed up with mediocrity. We have shifted the mediocrity, the club should now be looking upwards instead of back/down and try to build on what we have at the moment,with a manager who is saying and oing all the right things at the moment, decent players on loan need to be decent players on a decent contract.
Were not saying break the bank, but a bit of investment could see good returns(granted not guaranteed) hertz house will sooner or later come tumbling down, the buns house is on the verge we have to be ready to take advantage, NO?

Point is though Phil another big loss this year takes us in to the region of £6- 7m debt. Further investment above what we can afford has us approaching £10 m debt fast. At what point do you say our debt isn't manageable?

We had a lot of transfer income but whether you agree with building of training centre and stand or not the fact is this money has been spent. We need to stay within our budget until such times we can sell our players for big money and reinvest that in the team. I fear we may have a long wait.

[silverhibee]

What about the value of your car, house, furniture any other assets you have. STF's £75m isn't what he gets paid each month but the total of his wealth including property, investments etc.

What would the likely gain from this investment be for STF?

Mind you there are many threads on this board that say STF should not be allowed to make a profit from any of his investments in the club.

What about the year after that when it doesn't quite do it or we want a further investment to sustain the challenge?

What it seems to me that Hibs are building is a long term future which allows us to stay in business, mount a campaign each year and hopefully improve each year. Your proposal would not assist in any of that.


Gee whizz, what's he doing with it all, i was told on here by a reliable poster that he was worth £130m last month. :greengrin

[Stevie Reid]

:confused: Are we?

My mistake. Regardless, we are still in a very precarious position.

[Mikey]

If STF put in a £2m "investment" and took out say £2.2m at the end of that "investment" he'd get absolutely slaughtered.

[Eyrie]

Farmer may already have had to advance a further loan to the club to cover the losses being made this season and the surgery required to improve the manager/team.