Generic Sevco / Rangers meltdown thread

[Tynie01011973]

This was posted on P & B earlier today

From Charlotte,


Quote


The last set of Audio Releases had the aim of promoting that the words and actions of those who benefited most from the administration process at RFC, needed to be challenged.

Court cases are looming and it's important that the character of those who wish to pursue claims against others are closely scrutinised wherever possible, in order to avoid any possible conflict of interest.

Duff and Phelps have emphatically denied, and on public record, that they were aware of the total sum advanced by Ticketus, and that they were the primary funders, until some point in August 2011.

That position is still untenable and I've yet to see D&P withdraw their claims. Grier is documented as being aware in March 2011 and was in effect the Financial Director (by proxy) as soon as the takeover was complete.

He participated in the takeover talks with the Independent Committee and offered comfort that the funds were available. Yet it is Duff and Phelps who are suing Collyer Bristow for the alleged deceitful transaction.

D&P have lodged claims that RFC lost out on a valid investment opportunity led by Paul Murray and that RFC should recover this loss of investment.

That's a very strange position to maintain as the basis of a valid claim. D&P were already aware that the banks and Sir David Murray had dismissed the Paul Murray proposals. As for the reasons to reject, I'm not aware at this time.

Had David Grier disclosed the funding sources to the Independent Committee at any time, this deal could not have proceeded on the terms offered. The term 'duped' would not be available to use by anyone close to the deal either. Handy that.

Their attempts to pass the buck and blame others as being solely responsible, i.e. Gary Withey, is a step too far in my opinion.

So before any Drama Queens get further engrossed in the shock and horror of my 'Sun' type expose on Grier/Duff and Phelps, do consider the bigger picture.

Thousands of investors, debenture holders and fans suffered real distress and loss when RFC went into administration and subsequent liquidation. Many businesses were also damaged. The impact was far reaching and had and would have had a direct hit on many families, including those who may also be subject to litigation.

So please, spare me the moans and groans that my disclosures were a step too far.

Instead, convert that 'shock' into genuine concerns for the wider communities who suffered more due to rogue actions.

This wasn't an 'eye for an eye' type release. It was an intention to make it clear that those involved in the scandal are the ones who should bear responsibility for their actions.

Here we have a team, commonly known as 'The Rolex Boys' during the MCR years, having their secrets spilled. Ones which seem to cover extra marital relationships, prostitutes, cars and foreign holidays masked as corporate away days.

This team participated in probably the worst administration process known to many. Their actions are worthy of much closer inspection regardless of the general unease it might cause to a few.

[1875er]

I see it hasn't taken long for Zaliukis to slither along the M8 and start training with their big cousins Sevco.....

[Pedantic_Hibee]

Bombscare centre-back hyped up beyond belief by a club with delusions of grandeur. Much like their fantastic youth team that have won hee haw for years.

Brannimir Kostadinov where are you?

Charity robbers.

[#FromTheCapital]

I expect a goal rush next time we play the rangers.

Hibs 7 - 0 The Rangers

(Zaliukas OG 6,15,24,40,54,62,70)

[hfc rd]

Did he play in the recent friendly?

[derek0762]

Did he play in the recent friendly?

I really really hope he did :-) #RomanovsLoveChild

[Dunderhall]

If he gets a contract, he could start putting something towards Saving Hearts in Trouble.
Shocked he hasn't at least pulled a couple of pints at least whilst on expenses. :cb

[Deansy]

So after seven years in the 'reserves', a 31-year old finally gets promotion to the first-team - pretty much typical of the 'Dark-Side's levels these days.

[Centre Hawf]

Brannimir Kostadinov where are you?

Charity robbers.

Leave him alone, he worked wonders in my Accrington Stanley team on FM2010.

[Brooster]

Did he play in the recent friendly?

No he didn't.

[OsloHibs]

I can't believe even Rangers would waste thousands a week on him :confused: They really have lost the plot, eh.

[joe breezy]

Surprised nobody has picked up on the Jim Spence story here....

http://www.heraldscotland.com/news/home-news/bbc-says-sorry-over-spences-rangers-comments.22092189

He's been pulled up by the BBC for telling the truth - hunbelievable

[joe breezy]

I've complained to the BBC for apologising over a journalist who simply stated the facts

[green glory]

Phil Mac is adamant the BBC is going to back Spence over this.

[CentreLine]

Surprised nobody has picked up on the Jim Spence story here....

http://www.heraldscotland.com/news/home-news/bbc-says-sorry-over-spences-rangers-comments.22092189

He's been pulled up by the BBC for telling the truth - hunbelievable

You would have thought that the BBC would have learned its lesson about failing to get to the truth. Almost fifty years of denial over Jimmy Saville. I wonder how long the The Rangers will get?

[EuanH78]

Angela haggarty reckons that herald story references an apology to an email complainant earlier and that the bbc's atance has hardened since.
There's an interesting guest post on paul mcconvilles blog about the tortured make up of sevco5088 and sevco scotland and thus the rangers. Would link but not so easy on my phone.
Also spotted some news item about the police having to investigate themselves re leaks relating to media house - has come up in the charlottefakes investigation.

[EuanH78]

scotslawthoughts.wordpress.com/2013/09/09/mystery-directors-and-the-rangers-sevco-5088-switcheroo-by-ecojon/

[EuanH78]

scottishlaw.blogspot.co.uk/2013/09/police-scotland-to-investigate-itself.html?m=1

Ok, got them both. Sounds serious. Happy days :)

[Treadstone]

scotslawthoughts.wordpress.com/2013/09/09/mystery-directors-and-the-rangers-sevco-5088-switcheroo-by-ecojon/

http://scotslawthoughts.wordpress.com/2013/09/09/mystery-directors-and-the-rangers-sevco-5088-switcheroo-by-ecojon/


scottishlaw.blogspot.co.uk/2013/09/police-scotland-to-investigate-itself.html?m=1



http://scottishlaw.blogspot.co.uk/2013/09/police-scotland-to-investigate-itself.html?m=1

[EuanH78]

Thanks treadstone. Linking aint easy on phone

[Keith_M]

EGM at Ibrox (http://www.heraldscotland.com/news/home-news/rangers-egm-announcement-looms-as-board-impasse-continues.1378805451) is again looking likely, as they can't come to an agreement.

[Just Alf]

with all the stuff going on I keep thinking it's a good idea to remember things like this.....

13/06/12 – DAILY RECORD
“They’ll slip into liquidation within the next couple of weeks with a new company emerging but 140 years of history, triumph and tears, will have ended. No matter how Charles Green attempts to dress it up, a newco equals a new club. When the CVA was thrown out Rangers as we know them died. They were closed and a newco must start from scratch.”
- (Jim Traynor)

[Andy74]

EGM at Ibrox (http://www.heraldscotland.com/news/home-news/rangers-egm-announcement-looms-as-board-impasse-continues.1378805451) is again looking likely, as they can't come to an agreement.

That's nice but there's no such thing as EGMs any more!

[Keith_M]

That's nice but there's no such thing as EGMs any more!


Que?

[carnoustiehibee]

http://m.thedrum.com/news/2013/09/10/bbc-scotland-presenter-jim-spence-remain-backing-management-and-nuj-after-rangers

[Andy74]

Que?

Wasn't aimed at you! They keep talking about EGMs. They are now just GMs.

[Broken Gnome]

with all the stuff going on I keep thinking it's a good idea to remember things like this.....

13/06/12 – DAILY RECORD
“They’ll slip into liquidation within the next couple of weeks with a new company emerging but 140 years of history, triumph and tears, will have ended. No matter how Charles Green attempts to dress it up, a newco equals a new club. When the CVA was thrown out Rangers as we know them died. They were closed and a newco must start from scratch.”
- (Jim Traynor)

But he said sorry after reviewing the evidence and deciding he was wrong. Absolutely nothing to do with the fact he was getting paid by them and had to do a right good bit of grovelling to placate the people....

[Keith_M]

Wasn't aimed at you! They keep talking about EGMs. They are now just GMs.


I thought that had something to do with dodgy wheat.



Have they been bought over by Monsanto?


:dunno:

[Pedantic_Hibee]

My email address is banned from FollowFollow. Not sure why as I've never registered with them before.

Some ******nugget with a predilection for Hunular activity has written a complaint to the BBC regarding Jim Spence. Fellow FollowFollow fudknockers have congratulated him for his letter.

I simply sought to copy and paste quotes from Walter Smith, James Traynor, Richard Gough and Chuckles Green similarly saying what Jim Spence said.

Why are the Huns not taking them to task for their comments?

[green glory]

My email address is banned from FollowFollow. Not sure why as I've never registered with them before.

Some ******nugget with a predilection for Hunular activity has written a complaint to the BBC regarding Jim Spence. Fellow FollowFollow fudknockers have congratulated him for his letter.

I simply sought to copy and paste quotes from Walter Smith, James Traynor, Richard Gough and Chuckles Green similarly saying what Jim Spence said.

Why are the Huns not taking them to task for their comments?

Because they're thick gullible forelock tuggers who believe what they're told to believe by any voice which emanates from Ibroke.

[lapsedhibee]

Because they're thick gullible forelock tuggers who believe what they're told to believe by any voice which emanates from Ibroke.

Forelock a bit superfluous there. :wink:

[degenerated]

Forelock a bit superfluous there. :wink:

More like an Eddie Large perm or perhaps a mullet.

[DaveF]

My email address is banned from FollowFollow. Not sure why as I've never registered with them before.

Some ******nugget with a predilection for Hunular activity has written a complaint to the BBC regarding Jim Spence. Fellow FollowFollow fudknockers have congratulated him for his letter.

I simply sought to copy and paste quotes from Walter Smith, James Traynor, Richard Gough and Chuckles Green similarly saying what Jim Spence said.

Why are the Huns not taking them to task for their comments?

They'll do an email check. You should probably change your address from pedantichibbypape@greenandwhitefenian.com then you might get in :agree:

[greenginger]

http://www.londonstockexchange.com/exchange/prices-and-markets/stocks/summary/company-summary.html?fourWayKey=GB00B90T9Z75GBGBXASQ1

Gremlins in the Exchange this morning ?

Rangers International drop 100% a fall of £ 48 Billion ! :greengrin


Error discovered and page taken down on Stock exchange site Pity!

[green glory]

For the experts. I'm assuming the figure at the bottom of the page is literally all they have?



10968

[CropleyWasGod]

For the experts. I'm assuming the figure at the bottom of the page is literally all they have?



10968

No, it's not. It's the amount of their share capital.

There's no indication from that Annual Return as to how much cash they have. That would come from the accounts.

[green glory]

No, it's not. It's the amount of their share capital.

There's no indication from that Annual Return as to how much cash they have. That would come from the accounts.

Ok cool. You might enjoy this rather more.

http://www.bailii.org/uk/cases/UKUT/TCC/2013/B6.pdf

[matty_f]

Was there ever an outcome to the big tax case appeal appeal?

[JeMeSouviens]

Was there ever an outcome to the big tax case appeal appeal?

See link in previous post. The appeal has been considered and referred on to the Upper Tier Tribunal. It could have been referred back to the original FTT (the Huns requested that) but the judge rejects that approach based on a couple of things, that it would inevitably have led to a further appeal and that the FTT stuffed up:


The majority simply failed in its duty to make findings from
disputed evidence. One was left with the impression that,
since HMRC did not rely on an
allegation of sham, the majority took every document at face value and did not ask itself
what was the true purpose of the arrangements. HMRC’s submissions on that point
were
recited but not addressed.


Another interesting snippet:


Before coming to the detail of the case it is worth making a preliminary
observation.
I have referred above to the strong feelings of many football supporters.
Perhaps because of such feelings, professional football clubs are often regarded as having a special status.
In some respects that may be the correct view; but it should nevertheless
not be overlooked that a modern professional football club is not a “club”, in the sense of
an unincorporated association of members who join together in pursuit of a common
purpose, but a commercial enterprise whose function is to generate profits for its
shareholders. From that perspective it has no special status, and there is no reason why
its tax affairs should not be as open to scrutiny as those of any other profit making
organisation. The players, too, have no greater right to conceal their tax affairs from
public scrutiny than any other taxpayer. The fact that they are in the public eye is
irrelevant.

Huns'll no like that. :na na:

Also, other than HMRC officers and others who only gave evidence on condition of anonymity, the persons involved (mainly Huns) will be named and shamed in future reports.

[Leithenhibby]

See link in previous post. The appeal has been considered and referred on to the Upper Tier Tribunal. It could have been referred back to the original FTT (the Huns requested that) but the judge rejects that approach based on a couple of things, that it would inevitably have led to a further appeal and that the FTT stuffed up:



Another interesting snippet:



Huns'll no like that. :na na:

Also, other than HMRC officers and others who only gave evidence on condition of anonymity, the persons involved (mainly Huns) will be named and shamed in future reports.

Good start to the weekend :wink:

[green glory]

10969

[Part/Time Supporter]

Ok cool. You might enjoy this rather more.

http://www.bailii.org/uk/cases/UKUT/TCC/2013/B6.pdf

Curious this seems to have only come to light today. Deloittes were talking about it three weeks ago.

https://www.taxpublications.deloitte.co.uk/tis/dtp.nsf/0/9411904947B5D4FA80257BD000527F30?OpenDocument

Good old Scottish media on the ball as usual.

:rolleyes:

[JeMeSouviens]

The Hun rebel "requisitioners" seem to have all but given up. Frank Blin has walked away. The Huns' nomad (nominated advisor, basically a regulator on behalf of the stock exchange) are refusing to support Paul Murray as a candidate for the board.

Looks like advantage Spivs. :wink:

[jonty]

http://scotslawthoughts.wordpress.com/2013/09/16/rangers-given-no-title-stripping-guarantee-in-secret-spl-deal-by-ecojon/

Revealed - Rangers given secret no-title-stripping guarantee

The letter: http://www.scribd.com/doc/168302228/SPL-Undertaking-Letter

[Spike Mandela]

http://scotslawthoughts.wordpress.com/2013/09/16/rangers-given-no-title-stripping-guarantee-in-secret-spl-deal-by-ecojon/

Revealed - Rangers given secret no-title-stripping guarantee

The letter: http://www.scribd.com/doc/168302228/SPL-Undertaking-Letter

WOW! Scandalous if legit. What are the chances of the MSM running with this one? Who's got the balls to do it, surely there must be some media organisation prepared to run with it.

[Part/Time Supporter]

http://scotslawthoughts.wordpress.com/2013/09/16/rangers-given-no-title-stripping-guarantee-in-secret-spl-deal-by-ecojon/

Revealed - Rangers given secret no-title-stripping guarantee

The letter: http://www.scribd.com/doc/168302228/SPL-Undertaking-Letter

That isn't correct.

The letter is a guarantee that Sevco would not have any action taken against them by the SPL for the matters considered by Lord Nimmo Smith.

If such a guarantee had been given to Rangers then Lord Nimmo Smith would not have even been able to fine them (as he in fact did).

[CropleyWasGod]

That isn't correct.

The letter is a guarantee that Sevco would not have any action taken against them by the SPL for the matters considered by Lord Nimmo Smith.

If such a guarantee had been given to Rangers then Lord Nimmo Smith would not have even been able to fine them (as he in fact did).

IIRC, it was the Old Company that was fined.

http://sport.stv.tv/football/clubs/rangers/215802-key-points-from-lord-nimmo-smiths-ruling-on-rangers/

Newco bears no responsibility for the rule breaches.

"There is no allegation that the current owner and operator of the club, The Rangers Football Club Limited (“Newco”), contravened the SPL Rules or could be held responsible for any breach by Oldco." (p1)

A fine has been imposed on Oldco covering all rule breaches.

"In all the circumstances the Commission has imposed a fine of £250,000 on Oldco." (p1)

[Part/Time Supporter]

IIRC, it was the Old Company that was fined.

http://sport.stv.tv/football/clubs/rangers/215802-key-points-from-lord-nimmo-smiths-ruling-on-rangers/

Newco bears no responsibility for the rule breaches.

"There is no allegation that the current owner and operator of the club, The Rangers Football Club Limited (“Newco”), contravened the SPL Rules or could be held responsible for any breach by Oldco." (p1)

A fine has been imposed on Oldco covering all rule breaches.

"In all the circumstances the Commission has imposed a fine of £250,000 on Oldco." (p1)

That's my point. This document reveals that the SPL gave a guarantee to Sevco that they wouldn't be punished for the crimes of oldco, which meant that any punishment by LNS would only fall upon the oldco. This effectively meant that title stripping was **more** likely, not less, because that would have been the only effective punishment on the oldco, because it was already being liquidated and the SPL will only get pennies in the £ (if that) from the fine.

Green wouldn't have minded that because it wouldn't have harmed Sevco financially. In fact it may have helped Sevco financially because of the righteous indignation it would have induced amongst the Huns. What he was concerned about was the potential for a massive fine being handed down on Sevco that they may not have been able to afford.

[CropleyWasGod]

That's my point. This document reveals that the SPL gave a guarantee to Sevco that they wouldn't be punished for the crimes of oldco, which meant that any punishment by LNS would only fall upon the oldco. This effectively meant that title stripping was **more** likely, not less, because that would have been the only effective punishment on the oldco, because it was already being liquidated and the SPL will only get pennies in the £ (if that) from the fine.

Green wouldn't have minded that because it wouldn't have harmed Sevco financially. In fact it may have helped Sevco financially because of the righteous indignation it would have induced amongst the Huns. What he was concerned about was the potential for a massive fine being handed down on Sevco that they may not have been able to afford.

Yeah, I thought that was your point. I was kinda hoping someone would tell me that my thinking was wrong. :cb

I'm not really getting the "conspiracy" thing here. Much as I'd like to believe some of the wilder stories, I am not sure this is one of them.

[Part/Time Supporter]

Yeah, I thought that was your point. I was kinda hoping someone would tell me that my thinking was wrong. :cb

I'm not really getting the "conspiracy" thing here. Much as I'd like to believe some of the wilder stories, I am not sure this is one of them.

Yup.

To quantify the massive fine concept, you had Celtic bloggers arguing that Rangers should be fined tens of millions for loss of income to the other clubs, mainly Celtic. ie if you accept that Rangers players with EBTs were ineligible, each club should have finished one position higher in the league (except Celtic sometimes and Hearts in 2005/06), then those clubs would have benefitted from greater SPL prize money, European qualification and so on. Obviously the biggest part of this would have been Champions League payments.

[Pedantic_Hibee]

Personally, I take it upon myself to correct every journalist on twitter who refers to The Rangers as Rangers. It might be futile, but I will never acknowledge The Rangers as anything other than a team who were formed in 2012 and have only one trophy to their name.

[Seveno]

Personally, I take it upon myself to correct every journalist on twitter who refers to The Rangers as Rangers. It might be futile, but I will never acknowledge The Rangers as anything other than a team who were formed in 2012 and have only one trophy to their name.

And have lost every match that they have ever played against Hibernan.

[jonty]

That isn't correct.

The letter is a guarantee that Sevco would not have any action taken against them by the SPL for the matters considered by Lord Nimmo Smith.

If such a guarantee had been given to Rangers then Lord Nimmo Smith would not have even been able to fine them (as he in fact did).

Exactly. And who holds the titles?

Allegedly, according to the font of all knowledge that is Wikipedia,
with the SPL chairman Neil Doncaster saying "it is an existing club, even though it's a new company"

[Spike Mandela]

zaliukas rejects them.....

http://sport.stv.tv/football/240875-former-hearts-captain-marius-zaliukas-rejects-rangers-contract-offer/

[Part/Time Supporter]

http://rangers.co.uk/news/headlines/item/5177-club-statement




RANGERS FC have tonight informed Police Scotland of deeply offensive and threatening comments that have been made on the Follow Follow website. These remarks have placed a director and his family in a state of fear and alarm.

This Club is shocked by the kind of physical violence being mentioned and is sure the vast majority of Rangers' support will share our alarm and disgust. This type of rhetoric can never be deemed acceptable.

Rangers FC cannot tolerate this behaviour and intend to take an extremely robust approach to this sort of conduct. The board finds it inexplicable that some so called supporters of the club are bringing Rangers into disrepute and these people are not welcome at Ibrox.

The board is also aware that certain individuals are holding meetings and inciting fans to unruly behaviour. This has also been reported to the police.


May or may not be related to this...

http://scotslawthoughts.wordpress.com/2013/09/27/guess-who-the-rangers-board-is-after-now-and-why-its-wrong-to-gag-chris-graham/


Tonight has brought some interesting news which has caused consternation and weeping, wailing and gnashing of teeth amongst the Rangers faithful.

It is not clear yet if the two stories which have come out on Twitter tonight are connected – or if the issues are separate.

Almost simultaneously the BBC’s Chris McLaughlin and famous Rangers supporter, and star of screen and the internet Chris Graham tweeted the following.

Mr McLaughlin is regularly on the ball with his scoops from Ibrox, despite the BBC being “banned”. Tonight he tweeted that Rangers had referred comments against a director to the police. The comments were from a website which he later stated was Follow Follow (a popular gathering place on the internet for post-modern humour and witty discussion about football)

Chris Graham also chipped in. He revealed to the world that “the dysfunctional Rangers Board” was “threatening to sue” him. His response? “I’ll see them in court.”

Can this be the same matter?

Well, possibly not.

The police do not deal with civil matters. In fact, if the police have the chance to classify something as a “civil matter” to get the complainer out of the police station, they will take every opportunity to do so.

A threat to sue on the other hand would come by way of a letter or email from the excellent form of solicitors engaged by Rangers.

Following upon Mr Leggat having to remove a post from his blog last week, this seems to suggest that the Board at Ibrox is taking up the fight although, much to the chagrin of Rangers supporters (or at least those on Twitter and the Internet) the targets seem to be Rangers supporters!

Considering how vocal Rangers fans are about silencing critics of their team (or “Rangers haters” as they are known down the Copland Road) it might seem ironic that the legal big guns are turned on those who love the club.

Now, regular readers will know that Mr Graham was instrumental in bringing my media career to an end before it even started by his telling the BBC he would not appear on a radio broadcast I had been asked to join. Some might think that I would be delighted at this latest occurrence. Schadenfreude is a normal human emotion (though I keep mixing that up with Schweinsteiger).

But, as someone who has already been on the receiving end of a letter from Rangers lawyers (received at 10.30 pm telling me to remove material from the blog by midnight), I must say that there is something unsavoury about efforts by big companies to gag people who are wanting to comment on the company’s affairs.

In my case it was an allegation that commenting on the terms of the supposed presentation to prospective institutional investors in the run up to the IPO was a breach of confidentiality and allegedly “market abuse”. In fact the letter included the remarkable threat that, if the IPO failed to raise the sums looked for, then Rangers would sue me for their losses! Whilst that was very gratifying in terms of my perceived influence, it was rather heavy-handed (especially as the document I was reporting on came from that excellent and secret source Mr Google).

It is ironic that websites and message boards can be a haven for some of the most vile and threatening abuse. Anyone who has put their head over the parapet of the Rangers saga in recent years will have experienced this. Almost all have been prepared to put up with it – working on the basis that there is so much of it that trying to stop it is like emptying the Clyde with a thimble. If it goes over the score though people do react and I can commend Mr Dingwall of Follow Follow for removing threads referring to me when I have drawn to his attention comments which go far, far over the score.

I have detailed knowledge of two people who made reports to Strathclyde Police, as it then was, about abusive and threatening online comments about them. Neither obtained satisfaction. One was told that he had to print all of the material off as the police could not look at it online. In the other case the police denied having received any complaint at all – until the fax receipt proving the 22 pages had reached their office was found, at which time the story immediately became one that the matter had been investigated and found not to have involved a breach of the criminal law.

But when genuine critics are being threatened with action for speaking their minds…

One other ironic feature is that reaction against the Board for this alleged action – whilst, when it was known that I had been subject of an “injunction” (which I was not – because injunctions do not exist in Scotland and no court action was ever raised) there was rejoicing and some commenters were delighted with the prospect of me ending up in Barlinnie.

It might seem hypocritical for folk to welcome gagging of one’s enemies but to condemn such action against one’s friends.

But that should not distract from the premise that Rangers could be seen as doing something which, on a larger and more notorious scale, McDonald’s did in the so-called McLibel case – with the result that the longest libel trial in English legal history ensued and the burger company’s reputation was seriously damaged.

It is fair to say that the various owners of Rangers over recent years, and those looking to be owners, have experienced allegations of all sorts of misbehaviour, some (such as many of the posts on this blog based on research, analysis and public statements) whilst others elsewhere are based on rumour, innuendo and wild unfounded speculation.

But, despite that, the move to threating and taking legal action against critics does seem to be based on economic factors, rather than anything else.

It strikes me that the Rangers Board is over-reacting – having seen off the “Rebels” at least for now – they are now striking at their own.

As readers of this blog know, I am not keen on censoring free speech – so although it might surprise some readers – I stand firmly on the side of Chris Graham here. Let him say his piece and let it be defeated by debate, if the Board can do so. Gagging people rarely works. Even when views are unpalatable, it is better to hear them and let people make their own judgements rather than create martyrs whose opinions become hidden. If someone is talking rubbish, let us hear that, so we can judge for ourselves.

Now, all we need is to see if those on the Rangers side who are being gagged appreciate that they have looked to do the same to others.

Posted by Paul McConville

[Jack Hackett]

So do we think Police Scotland will actually do something about this vile site this time?

[The Falcon]

Rangers annual results showing an operating loss of £14m on a turnover of £19.1m. They have learned a lot from their experience.

http://www.rangers.co.uk/news/headlines/item/5195-rangers-announce-annual-results

[Hibby70]

Rangers annual results showing an operating loss of £14m on a turnover of £19.1m. They have learned a lot from their experience.

http://www.rangers.co.uk/news/headlines/item/5195-rangers-announce-annual-results
Hope this new club go the same way as that similar named one.

[Weststandwanab]

Rangers annual results showing an operating loss of £14m on a turnover of £19.1m. They have learned a lot from their experience. All going to plan then.

http://www.rangers.co.uk/news/headlines/item/5195-rangers-announce-annual-results All going to plan then. I wonder if there will be another share issue to pay for the 2013/14 operating loss.

[Onceinawhile]

Their wage bill is about our turnover!

Not sure how a division 3 team spent 33 million!

[matty_f]

Their wage bill is about our turnover!

Not sure how a division 3 team spent 33 million!

And never looked like winning a cup. Staggering.

[Hibernia Na Eir]

criminals.

Here's hoping the cockroaches are blown away this time and never to be seen again.

[PatHead]

No wonder they had to pull out of deals for Zaluskas and the other guys they had training there. Would have thought their wage bill will have gone up this season with the signing of Daly and not getting rid of anyone. How can they reduce a cost base in their first year of trading? http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-glasgow-west-24344579

[jacomo]

Rangers annual results showing an operating loss of £14m on a turnover of £19.1m. They have learned a lot from their experience.

http://www.rangers.co.uk/news/headlines/item/5195-rangers-announce-annual-results

These figures are simply staggering. I accept the company has high overheads which it can't do much about but a huge chunk of that loss will be down to the ludicrous wages they are paying.

No wonder the Board room at The Rangers is at war - if I were a shareholder I would be very concerned indeed. Judging by Craig Mather's comments though, everything is going to plan.

[Part/Time Supporter]

Jon L. Pritchett‏@tobaccoroadguy27m

@white_italy Thanks. Ha, Ha. Only in Rangers World can you spend 90% of your revenue on staff and think you've got a healthy business.

If you go back about 20,000 posts, Jon Pritchett was the guy behind Club 9 Sports. They were interested in buying Rangers, but only if they went down the newco route and got rid of all the highly paid staff and players.

Naturally, the Rangers fans preferred the spivs and chancers they've had since and got now.

[Keith_M]

I can't see any way that The Rangers will get into the top league with no debt and money in the bank.

They seem intent on having an F1 McLaren to win a Go Kart Race, no matter what it costs them.

[Treadstone]

If you go back about 20,000 posts, Jon Pritchett was the guy behind Club 9 Sports. They were interested in buying Rangers, but only if they went down the newco route and got rid of all the highly paid staff and players.

Naturally, the Rangers fans preferred the spivs and chancers they've had since and got now.

Club 9 were probably one rung above 'spivs and chancers'.

[PatHead]

I can't see any way that The Rangers will get into the top league with no debt and money in the bank.

They seem intent on having an F1 McLaren to win a Wheelbarrow Race, no matter what it costs them.

Sorted it for you :wink:. Think the go cart race is this season........

[jacomo]

More detail on TRFC finances here:

http://www.scotsman.com/news/scotland/top-stories/fans-anger-as-rangers-announce-14-4m-loss-1-3119523

Turnover less than £20m, but Chuckie Green took away £933k in salary, Swally £825k. Those figures are absolutely outrageous. I can understand both men having share options that might pay out handsomely if they turn the club around, but to take that much cash out of a business of that size is shocking.

[Lucius Apuleius]

Imagine if we were paying our guys these wages:-)

[Moulin Yarns]

Imagine if we were paying our guys these wages:-)

We would be bust!

[green glory]

They need another stupid billionaire or Scotland's youngest football club will go the way of their equally poisonous predecessors,

Personally I think a 'Rangers' in any form can't be anything other than a bigoted racist cancer.

It's time they went to the grave for the final time.

[Seveno]

With a current wage bill of £7.8m for the first team squad, at say a generous 30 players, would mean an average wage of £5,000 a week. To win League One !

[hibees 7062]

The club earned just £778,000 from broadcasting rights.

How many SPFL clubs earned that ?

[Moulin Yarns]

The club earned just £778,000 from broadcasting rights.

How many SPFL clubs earned that ?


More to the point, how much did all the other division 3 clubs get?

[green is good]

At £825 grand a year it's no surprise McCoist doesn't do walking away

[Oscar T Grouch]

Rangers annual results showing an operating loss of £14m on a turnover of £19.1m. They have learned a lot from their experience.

http://www.rangers.co.uk/news/headlines/item/5195-rangers-announce-annual-results

Love the headlines on the article, they need to keep telling themselves, the club celebrated 140 years in existence, really 140 years? I hope they keep spending like they are, the rangers will soon be in administration.

[GordonHFC]

The club earned just £778,000 from broadcasting rights.

How many SPFL clubs earned that ?

Not enough to cover McMoist's salary though.

[Part/Time Supporter]

At £825 grand a year it's no surprise McCoist doesn't do walking away

In fairness, the accounting period covered 13 months so he is on more like £750K a year to lose games against Stirling, Annan and Peterhead.


The club earned just £778,000 from broadcasting rights.

How many SPFL clubs earned that ?

That will be mostly from their overseas fans subscribing to their website. The SPL bought rights from the SFL (for games involving Rangers) but Rangers were not entitled to those funds as they were only an associate member. They will have got some TV money from Sky for the couple of games they played in the Scottish Cup.

[Keith_M]

Even they seem to be confused about the difference between the Company and the Club.




The Club was returned to operational and financial stability.



If it was the (previous) Company that went bust, owing tens of millions to all and sundry, how can The Club have returned to financial stability?


:hmmm:

[johnbc70]

For those following Charlotte Fakeovers on twitter it just posted "Suspension Lifted. Let's get to the bottom of who has most to hide. No punches pulled"

I noticed the account posted some things earlier that had been removed by lawyers - so lets hope some more info comes out.

Wonder who is behind the account - surely someone close to Craig Whyte?

[Billy Whizz]

http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/football/24382632

How many players do they actually have on their books?

[Sergio sledge]

http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/football/24382632

How many players do they actually have on their books?

http://www.soccerbase.com/teams/team.sd?team_id=2104&comp_id=14

Take away those three players and they'll be down to the bare bones at 35 players.

[jacomo]

Rangers might run out of money before they get back to the top flight, says Neil Patey:

http://www.scotsman.com/sport/football/spfl-lower-divisions/rangers-warned-cash-will-run-out-before-premiership-1-3122904

The recent accounts contain a number of "one off" items so presumably the trading position is not as bad as it looked initially. But Mr Patey seems to suggest there is reason for them to worry.

Given the vicious arguing amongst the existing shareholders at The Rangers, how likely is it they could do another successful share issue? Who would want to invest in a company that is burning through cash so rapidly and where the Board, wannabe Board members and Executive Team seem to spend most of the working day issuing statements against each other?

[CropleyWasGod]

Rangers might run out of money before they get back to the top flight, says Neil Patey:

http://www.scotsman.com/sport/football/spfl-lower-divisions/rangers-warned-cash-will-run-out-before-premiership-1-3122904

The recent accounts contain a number of "one off" items so presumably the trading position is not as bad as it looked initially. But Mr Patey seems to suggest there is reason for them to worry.

Given the vicious arguing amongst the existing shareholders at The Rangers, how likely is it they could do another successful share issue? Who would want to invest in a company that is burning through cash so rapidly and where the Board, wannabe Board members and Executive Team seem to spend most of the working day issuing statements against each other?

I read that, with half an eye on what he said before about Rangers' situation.

It's a bit of a non-statement, to be honest, and probably taken out of context. However, if they do nothing, they WILL run out of money, and much sooner than that.

They have plenty of scope, though, for raising cash. IIRC, they have no bank lending, with assets worth squillions :rolleyes:, so there is scope there. Sale and lease-back has also been mentioned. Another share issue, although possible, is unlikely.

[steakbake]

For those following Charlotte Fakeovers on twitter it just posted "Suspension Lifted. Let's get to the bottom of who has most to hide. No punches pulled"

I noticed the account posted some things earlier that had been removed by lawyers - so lets hope some more info comes out.

Wonder who is behind the account - surely someone close to Craig Whyte?

Its a fascinating account.

However, he can reveal all he likes but unless journos and football administrators listen to him/conveniently stop ignoring him, then nothing will happen.

[jacomo]

I read that, with half an eye on what he said before about Rangers' situation.

It's a bit of a non-statement, to be honest, and probably taken out of context. However, if they do nothing, they WILL run out of money, and much sooner than that.

They have plenty of scope, though, for raising cash. IIRC, they have no bank lending, with assets worth squillions :rolleyes:, so there is scope there. Sale and lease-back has also been mentioned. Another share issue, although possible, is unlikely.

No doubt someone would agree a loan with them, but probably at quite a high price given their track record (none or awful, depending on how you see it). Also, sale-and-leaseback deals are pretty discredited aren't they, certainly in the UK. Any club that's done one seems to spend the next few years desperately trying to buy their own ground back.

[CropleyWasGod]

No doubt someone would agree a loan with them, but probably at quite a high price given their track record (none or awful, depending on how you see it). Also, sale-and-leaseback deals are pretty discredited aren't they, certainly in the UK. Any club that's done one seems to spend the next few years desperately trying to buy their own ground back.

Indeed.

Where they are in a good place, though, is that they own a number of separate properties. It might be in their interests to do a deal with the training ground.

On the other hand, I think I read that Edmiston House needs a lot of money spent on it, before they can sell or lease that.

[cabbageandribs1875]

sally McCoist was getting a salary of £825k :shocked:

The results revealed McCoist's salary to be £825,000 before agreeing to a wage cut, which the manager says is now closer to a 50% reduction reported in one newspaper on Friday and not, as some have suggested, a 15% cut.



http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/football/24395665

[lapsedhibee]

sally McCoist was getting a salary of £825k :shocked:

The results revealed McCoist's salary to be £825,000 before agreeing to a wage cut, which the manager says is now closer to a 50% reduction reported in one newspaper on Friday and not, as some have suggested, a 15% cut.



http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/football/24395665




Even halved, it's way too high for middle-management in a startup company.

[monktonharp]

Even halved, it's way too high for middle-management in a startup company. :agree: unbelievable sort of wage for a manager of a new start team. how much management experience does he actually have, to earn 400k+, ? a team playing in the 3rd tier of Scottish football too.

[seanshow]

The Swansea manager is getting less apparently

lol ......Money well spent on Wally :cb

[joe breezy]

McCoist is a TV star from Question of Sport so he's worth every penny

[Keith_M]

McCoist is a TV star from Question of Sport so he's worth every penny


I think I'd prefer Sue Barker


:wink:

[Part/Time Supporter]

The clubs that were in the SPL between 2009 and 2012 got a share of £600K proceeds from the liquidation of Setanta last week.

Apart from Rangers, who died.

https://twitter.com/mcgceltic/status/387155789770919936/photo/1

:greengrin

[CropleyWasGod]

The clubs that were in the SPL between 2009 and 2012 got a share of £600K proceeds from the liquidation of Setanta last week.

Apart from Rangers, who died.

https://twitter.com/mcgceltic/status/387155789770919936/photo/1

:greengrin

Shouldn't the liquidators get it, though?

[Springbank]

I'd like to see hearts denied their share

Not for any valid accountancy reasons, just out of sheer bad will to cheats who were operating in the period in question

[Spike Mandela]

So the Desperados want Dave King back.........

http://www.dailyrecord.co.uk/sport/football/football-news/tycoon-dave-king-set-return-2356060

I wonder how many of the baying mob that were criticising the SFA for not identifying Craig Whyte as not a fit and proper person to run a football club will be demanding the same here. Certainly not McCoist who will prostitute himself to any one who will give him loads of cash to spend on players and salary....

http://news.stv.tv/scotland/237753-dave-king-settles-on-44m-bill-with-south-african-authorities/

[Keith_M]

So the Desperados want Dave King back.........

http://www.dailyrecord.co.uk/sport/football/football-news/tycoon-dave-king-set-return-2356060

I wonder how many of the baying mob that were criticising the SFA for not identifying Craig Whyte as not a fit and proper person to run a football club will be demanding the same here. Certainly not McCoist who will prostitute himself to any one who will give him loads of cash to spend on players and salary....

http://news.stv.tv/scotland/237753-dave-king-settles-on-44m-bill-with-south-african-authorities/



Yep, McCoist has now once again shown the loyalty for which he's famous, to whoever holds the purse strings. No wonder Sue Barker got shot of him...

[Hibs Class]

So the Desperados want Dave King back.........

http://www.dailyrecord.co.uk/sport/football/football-news/tycoon-dave-king-set-return-2356060

I wonder how many of the baying mob that were criticising the SFA for not identifying Craig Whyte as not a fit and proper person to run a football club will be demanding the same here. Certainly not McCoist who will prostitute himself to any one who will give him loads of cash to spend on players and salary....

http://news.stv.tv/scotland/237753-dave-king-settles-on-44m-bill-with-south-african-authorities/

It is a village of little Huns. If I was a follower of the newco then I'd be looking for as few connections to dead co as possible. In which case the reappearance of king would be most unwelcome. But apparently the resurrectionalists are trying to bring the old times back to life. Very strange.

[Gingertosser]

Re: Dave King

I was under the impression that if you were a director with a company who were liquidated, the law says you can't join the new company for 5 years ?

Can any of our more knowledgable posters shed some light on this....

[Keith_M]

Calls for Dave King, The New Saviour, are in full force now. That's Sandy Jardine in the papers today saying how much they need his money to be able to instantly compete against Celtic on their entry to the 'Premiership' **

This is the Celtic that are debt free and have tens of millions in the bank after having unchallenged entry for Scotland's place in the Champions League, which they'll have for a few years yet. There is absolutely no chance that Rangers can hope to compete financially for years to come without mega-investment.

These people really have learned nothing.




** I so hate that name.

[CropleyWasGod]

Re: Dave King

I was under the impression that if you were a director with a company who were liquidated, the law says you can't join the new company for 5 years ?

Can any of our more knowledgable posters shed some light on this....

Pretty sure that's not the case, unless the director has been served with a disqualification order.

There has been no suggestion of that in the Rangers situation yet.

[ballengeich]

Outside the world of football, investor means someone who puts money into a business with the intention of receiving annual income and eventually selling shares for at least the purchase price. When King is being asked to invest in Rangers the fans' expectation is that he will pour millions in with no hope of ever seeing it again.

It's possible that King wants to do this and run the club as a personal project. If he does he's going to have to deal with earlier investors, who are actually there to make money. Genuine instituational investors will want to see a business plan which includes payment of dividends. In addition there may be still be people like Green and his associates who were just there to take as much as they could out in the short term and don't care what sort of a mess the club is left in (see - everyone has some good in them if you look hard enough).

There'll probably be a cash crisis during the next couple of seasons, though I don't think it's going to be as severe as a lot of people hope. Once that's dealt with there's the potential for plenty of conflict between investors looking for a return on their money and the fans and others who think that someone will come in and spend vast sums on players without getting anything back. I reckon Rangers can afford their current spending levels once they're back in the top division, but the bears will expect a warchest and international stars and they're not likely to get that.

[SurferRosa]

Calls for Dave King, The New Saviour, are in full force now. That's Sandy Jardine in the papers today saying how much they need his money to be able to instantly compete against Celtic on their entry to the 'Premiership' **

This is the Celtic that are debt free and have tens of millions in the bank after having unchallenged entry for Scotland's place in the Champions League, which they'll have for a few years yet. There is absolutely no chance that Rangers can hope to compete financially for years to come without mega-investment.

These people really have learned nothing.




** I so hate that name.

It gets even more desperate. The bit about just ignoring his past financial irregularities is astonishing! but the section about Kings wealth, his wine cabinet and all his servants but that he`s just a normal, down to earth guy.........is pure comedy gold.

http://www.dailyrecord.co.uk/sport/football/barry-ferguson-dave-king-returning-2360162

[Pedantic_Hibee]

It gets even more desperate. The bit about just ignoring his past financial irregularities is astonishing! but the section about Kings wealth, his wine cabinet and all his servants but that he`s just a normal, down to earth guy.........is pure comedy gold.

http://www.dailyrecord.co.uk/sport/football/barry-ferguson-dave-king-returning-2360162

"it's been robbed a little of its old class". Haha, for a start, it's a completely different club and number two, the old Rangers didn't have any class.

Why do journalists refer to them as the same club? Why are Trading Standards allowing the Rangers to release decanters depicting 140 years of unbroken history when they've only been in existence just over a year? Baffling.

[Treadstone]

"it's been robbed a little of its old class". Haha, for a start, it's a completely different club and number two, the old Rangers didn't have any class.

Why do journalists refer to them as the same club? Why are Trading Standards allowing the Rangers to release decanters depicting 140 years of unbroken history when they've only been in existence just over a year? Baffling.

To be fair its Barry Ferguson but i realise how it could be mistaken for a 'Record Journalist'.:greengrin

[Pedantic_Hibee]

To be fair its Barry Ferguson but i realise how it could be mistaken for a 'Record Journalist'.:greengrin

If Barry is so concerned about The Rangers being financially secure, perhaps he could start repaying his EBT to help them out?

[Treadstone]

If Barry is so concerned about The Rangers being financially secure, perhaps he could start repaying his EBT to help them out?

Barry would rather say 'its a new club' than front up to that!

[Pedantic_Hibee]

Barry would rather say 'its a new club' than front up to that!

Exactly the trap I'd hope he fall into. It can't be a new club as and when it suits them.

I sincerely hope that if and when The Rangers make it to the Premiership that Hibs refer to them as The Rangers. They are a completely new club and I think it's absolutely disgraceful the way they are allowed to carry on with their stars on the strips etc. It's false advertising for a start.

[Deansy]

Exactly the trap I'd hope he fall into. It can't be a new club as and when it suits them.

I sincerely hope that if and when The Rangers make it to the Premiership that Hibs refer to them as The Rangers. They are a completely new club and I think it's absolutely disgraceful the way they are allowed to carry on with their stars on the strips etc. It's false advertising for a start.

Can someone with better knowledge of these things explain why these 'people' (things) are allowed to do this - I thought there was something called 'Phoenix Companies Law' (?) that makes this illegal ?

[CropleyWasGod]

Can someone with better knowledge of these things explain why these 'people' (things) are allowed to do this - I thought there was something called 'Phoenix Companies Law' (?) that makes this illegal ?

Nothing illegal in it.

Company A owns, and trades as Brand X.

Company A goes bust.

Company B buys Brand X from Company A.

Company B now owns, and trades as, Brand X

[SurferRosa]

Nothing illegal in it.

Company A owns, and trades as Brand X.

Company A goes bust.

Company B buys Brand X from Company A.

Company B now owns, and trades as, Brand X

Just a question. Why then were Airdrieonians not allowed to call themselves that, couldn`t adopt the same badge and had to change their name to Airdrie Utd? I know that they`ve recently sneaked the old badge back on the jerseys and changed the name back but their history now officially only stretches back to 2002. Just curious as to what the difference is that forced them to accept they were brand new and why SevCo and the Scottish media seem to think that the same rules that affected Airdrieonians dont apply to them.

[jgl07]

Just a question. Why then were Airdrieonians not allowed to call themselves that, couldn`t adopt the same badge and had to change their name to Airdrie Utd? I know that they`ve recently sneaked the old badge back on the jerseys and changed the name back but their history now officially only stretches back to 2002. Just curious as to what the difference is that forced them to accept they were brand new and why SevCo seem to think that the same rules that affected Airdrieonians dont apply to them.

Very strange. Maybe it was because Jim Ballentyne did not purchase the clubs name and crest from the receivers KPMG? Ballantyne registered the names Airdrie FC Ltd and Airdrie Football Club Ltd and KPMG then withdrew the clubs name and crest from sale.

I recall Jim Ballentyne being interviewed a couple of years back on this very topic. He stated that he would love for Airdrie United to play with the old crest and original name but the receiver told him that for that to happen the creditors from the insolvency of Airdrieonians would have to be repaid.

[SurferRosa]

Very strange. Maybe it was because Jim Ballentyne did not purchase the clubs name and crest from the receivers KPMG? Ballantyne registered the names Airdrie FC Ltd and Airdrie Football Club Ltd and KPMG then withdrew the clubs name and crest from sale.

I recall Jim Ballentyne being interviewed a couple of years back on this very topic. He stated that he would love for Airdrie United to play with the old crest and original name but the receiver told him that for that to happen the creditors from the insolvency of Airdrieonians would have to be repaid.

To my knowledge, the countless people and businesses owed rather a lot of money by Rangers Football Club Ltd ( Dead Co ), have never been paid a single penny back. Strange indeed.

[CropleyWasGod]

Just a question. Why then were Airdrieonians not allowed to call themselves that, couldn`t adopt the same badge and had to change their name to Airdrie Utd? I know that they`ve recently sneaked the old badge back on the jerseys and changed the name back but their history now officially only stretches back to 2002. Just curious as to what the difference is that forced them to accept they were brand new and why SevCo and the Scottish media seem to think that the same rules that affected Airdrieonians dont apply to them.

As JGL says, the new Airdrie company didn't buy the brand. Sevco, on the other hand, bought the Rangers brand.

[SurferRosa]

As JGL says, the new Airdrie company didn't buy the brand. Sevco, on the other hand, bought the Rangers brand.

Yes, but he also said that Ballantyne was told by the liquidators that in order to "buy the brand", the NewCo would have to pay the money owed to the OldCo`s creditors. So why wasn`t SevCo forced to follow this same rule? They seem to have just decided that they paid for another clubs history and that`s that. Why didn`t D&P tell Green the same, if that`s the rule?

[CropleyWasGod]

Yes, but he also said that Ballantyne was told by the liquidators that in order to "buy the brand", the NewCo would have to pay the money owed to the OldCo`s creditors. So why wasn`t SevCo forced to follow this same rule? They seem to have just decided that they paid for another clubs history and that`s that. Why didn`t D&P tell Green the same, if that`s the rule?

I am not familiar with the Airdrie story, but the liquidator/administrator (not sure which.. JGL says "receiver") wasn't following any "rules" as such. I can only guess that he had decided that the price for the brand was the full payment of all creditors. Nothing legally wrong with that... and the "receiver" did't get what he was asking.

In Rangers case, the price for the brand was £1, which was set by the administrators. Again, nothing legally wrong with that.....

The only question for me, as has been raised many times before, is whether the brand was undervalued. That may yet be tested in the Courts. However, there is nothing legally wrong with the transaction itself.

[SurferRosa]

I am not familiar with the Airdrie story, but the liquidator/administrator (not sure which.. JGL says "receiver") wasn't following any "rules" as such. I can only guess that he had decided that the price for the brand was the full payment of all creditors. Nothing legally wrong with that... and the "receiver" did't get what he was asking.

In Rangers case, the price for the brand was £1, which was set by the administrators. Again, nothing legally wrong with that.....

The only question for me, as has been raised many times before, is whether the brand was undervalued. That may yet be tested in the Courts. However, there is nothing legally wrong with the transaction itself.

That`s fair enough but does it not make it very dangerous if there is no set rulebook on this and an admin/liquidator can make the rules up as they see fit? Why are there no definitive rules for admins/liquidators to follow? To me that opens up possibilties of corruption and dodgy deals being struck by unscrupulous types, not that i`m suggesting that was the case in the SevCo situation of course........

[CropleyWasGod]

That`s fair enough but does it not make it very dangerous if there is no set rulebook on this and an admin/liquidator can make the rules up as they see fit? Why are there no definitive rules for admins/liquidators to follow? To me that opens up possibilties of corruption and dodgy deals being struck by unscrupulous types, not that i`m suggesting that was the case in the SevCo situation of course........

Of course there are rules. There are rules for administrators, and there are rules for liquidators. Most of these rules are backed up by legislation.

What I am trying to describe, though, is the commercial reality. The Airdrie guy didn't want to pay the price, which was clearly too high. Sevco paid the price that was on offer; whether that was the correct market price may yet be questioned.

[jgl07]

As JGL says, the new Airdrie company didn't buy the brand. Sevco, on the other hand, bought the Rangers brand.

The point I found puzzling was that Ballentyne suggested that to buy the brand, the creditors would have to be paid off in full. He was specifically asked that question in a radio interview. Maybe he was covering his tracks for being too tight-fisted to make a reasonable offer and going down the route of registering a new club?

Having said that Ballentyne always came across as a straightforward guy. He handed over the Clydebank brand to their supporters to enable them to use it in Junior Football.

[Keith_M]

I thought Sevco had to register the club as The Rangers, not Rangers because of an SFA ruling. Or have I got it wrong (again)?


Airdrie recently managed to overturn the ban on using the original name and badge as the SFA had no defence due to the lenient way they treated (The) Rangers.

[SurferRosa]

Of course there are rules. There are rules for administrators, and there are rules for liquidators. Most of these rules are backed up by legislation.

What I am trying to describe, though, is the commercial reality. The Airdrie guy didn't want to pay the price, which was clearly too high. Sevco paid the price that was on offer; whether that was the correct market price may yet be questioned.

Fair enough Crops. :aok:

[CropleyWasGod]

The point I found puzzling was that Ballentyne suggested that to buy the brand, the creditors would have to be paid off in full. He was specifically asked that question in a radio interview. Maybe he was covering his tracks for being too tight-fisted to make a reasonable offer and going down the route of registering a new club?

Having said that Ballentyne always came across as a straightforward guy. He handed over the Clydebank brand to their supporters to enable them to use it in Junior Football.

Yeah, seems strange to me, too.

Maybe, as you say, he was trying to justify his own (in)action. Or perhaps the liquidator was trying it on. Maybe there were other factors at play that neither would disclose.

It always puzzled me, too, why that whole scenario took years (7?) to finalise.

[goosano]

My heads still shaking from reading Walter Smith's interviews in the Scotsman on Sunday/Scotsman from last week. It starts with

With losses of £14.4million announced last week and in-fighting between directors and rebel shareholders showing no sign of letting up, Smith struggled to see a light at the end of this particular tunnel.

Smith's response

"However, Smith dismisses suggestions that Rangers should not have made high-profile signings such as Cammy Bell, Jon Daly, Nicky Law and others on elite-division salaries while the club is losing money in Scottish football’s third tier.

“At Rangers it’s a difficult scenario,” he said. “You talk about cutting their cloth but, at the start of last season Rangers had to have a team that was fairly recognisable in terms of the level of player.

“Even during the season when they were winning there was a whole raft of discontent over the way they were playing. But, this year, what do you do with that?

“Do you say: ‘We are going to go with the same team again?’ You couldn’t do that. They had to [improve] the team. They had to bring in different players.

“People come out and say: ‘It’s not necessary for them to have that in that division’ but it’s not just the division that matters at Rangers, it’s the fact you have 45,000 people coming to watch something on a football pitch.

“That’s where Rangers have to make the difference and, in fairness to Alistair, he has done that this season. They are still losing money but when you make a decision to become involved at Rangers there is no common sense to it.

“There is no common business sense. Yes, there is money going out, it’s a fact. But what do you do?

Unbelievable. More from the man

His comments on the financial waste at Ibrox, under his watch in part, demanded explanation. “I knew they [Rangers] would make a loss [for the financial year ended 30 June] but I wasn’t sure exactly what it would be. It was quite a surprise when it came out to be such a large figure.”

Well, what is your job as chairman? And to finish

On the football side of it, it’s pretty clear that Smith had no issue with McCoist earning £825,000 a year. Also, he has said that giving a player a wage of £7,500 a week (Ian Black, for one) while in the Third Division was not such a big deal. Presumably he had no truck with other deals, like the one given to Fran Sandaza that would have seen the Spaniard’s salary rise to £10,000 a week in the final year of his contract.

The overall wage bill in the Third Division was £7.8 million. Smith said: “People come out and say ‘Ah, it’s not necessary for them to have those players in that division’. But it’s not just the division that matters at Rangers, it’s the fact that you have 45,000 people coming to watch something on a football pitch…They are still losing money. But when you make a decision to be involved at Rangers, there is no common sense to it. The financial bit of Rangers Football Club and common sense don’t often go together.

Heads still firmly stuck in sand. I hope The Rangers go exactly the same way as Rangers. they quite clearly haven't learnt a thing/have a shred of humility

[Springbank]

My heads still shaking from reading Walter Smith's interviews in the Scotsman on Sunday/Scotsman from last week. It starts with

With losses of £14.4million announced last week and in-fighting between directors and rebel shareholders showing no sign of letting up, Smith struggled to see a light at the end of this particular tunnel.

Smith's response

"However, Smith dismisses suggestions that Rangers should not have made high-profile signings such as Cammy Bell, Jon Daly, Nicky Law and others on elite-division salaries while the club is losing money in Scottish football’s third tier.

“At Rangers it’s a difficult scenario,” he said. “You talk about cutting their cloth but, at the start of last season Rangers had to have a team that was fairly recognisable in terms of the level of player.

“Even during the season when they were winning there was a whole raft of discontent over the way they were playing. But, this year, what do you do with that?

“Do you say: ‘We are going to go with the same team again?’ You couldn’t do that. They had to [improve] the team. They had to bring in different players.

“People come out and say: ‘It’s not necessary for them to have that in that division’ but it’s not just the division that matters at Rangers, it’s the fact you have 45,000 people coming to watch something on a football pitch.

“That’s where Rangers have to make the difference and, in fairness to Alistair, he has done that this season. They are still losing money but when you make a decision to become involved at Rangers there is no common sense to it.

“There is no common business sense. Yes, there is money going out, it’s a fact. But what do you do?

Unbelievable. More from the man

His comments on the financial waste at Ibrox, under his watch in part, demanded explanation. “I knew they [Rangers] would make a loss [for the financial year ended 30 June] but I wasn’t sure exactly what it would be. It was quite a surprise when it came out to be such a large figure.”

Well, what is your job as chairman? And to finish

On the football side of it, it’s pretty clear that Smith had no issue with McCoist earning £825,000 a year. Also, he has said that giving a player a wage of £7,500 a week (Ian Black, for one) while in the Third Division was not such a big deal. Presumably he had no truck with other deals, like the one given to Fran Sandaza that would have seen the Spaniard’s salary rise to £10,000 a week in the final year of his contract.

The overall wage bill in the Third Division was £7.8 million. Smith said: “People come out and say ‘Ah, it’s not necessary for them to have those players in that division’. But it’s not just the division that matters at Rangers, it’s the fact that you have 45,000 people coming to watch something on a football pitch…They are still losing money. But when you make a decision to be involved at Rangers, there is no common sense to it. The financial bit of Rangers Football Club and common sense don’t often go together.

Heads still firmly stuck in sand. I hope The Rangers go exactly the same way as Rangers. they quite clearly haven't learnt a thing/have a shred of humility

As someone with Scottish Football at heart, I can only shake my head at this sheer stupidity from an otherwise respected and respectable figure (Walter Smith)

As you say, no lessons have been learned.

In hearts case the authorities had to step in when it became clear the club and directors were too immature to take hard decisions to live within their means and to take responsibility to explain this action (and the reasons for it) to their supporters. In the hearts case that meant a transfer ban.

The Rangers are clearly needing this type of reality check too, or else it's liquidation mark 2, inevitably

[Keith_M]

....

In hearts case the authorities had to step in when it became clear the club and directors were too immature to take hard decisions to live within their means and to take responsibility to explain this action (and the reasons for it) to their supporters. In the hearts case that meant a transfer ban.

The Rangers are clearly needing this type of reality check too, or else it's liquidation mark 2, inevitably


Didn't you realise that The Rangers also had a transfer ban? It started on the day after the Transfer Window closed and has been really effective in preventing them signing players.

[Pedantic_Hibee]

Looks like two clubs with the word "Rangers" in it will be going into liquidation in the space of 18 months. Stunning coincidence. It's a curse.

[Tynie01011973]

Didn't you realise that The Rangers also had a transfer ban? It started on the day after the Transfer Window closed and has been really effective in preventing them signing players.

Sure it started ONE MONTH after it was announced

:rolleyes:

[Keith_M]

Sure it started ONE MONTH after it was announced

:rolleyes:


That's the one :greengrin

[Spike Mandela]

What the **** is all this about? Nice to see them explicitly called THE Rangers football club though.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/football/24518160

[Part/Time Supporter]

What the **** is all this about? Nice to see them explicitly called THE Rangers football club though.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/football/24518160

In their desperation to give the hordes some good news (King is free of his South African tax problems and could come on board), the Sevco board forgot to tell the stock exchange first.

[Scott Allan Key]

My heads still shaking from reading Walter Smith's interviews in the Scotsman on Sunday/Scotsman from last week. It starts with

With losses of £14.4million announced last week and in-fighting between directors and rebel shareholders showing no sign of letting up, Smith struggled to see a light at the end of this particular tunnel.

Smith's response

"However, Smith dismisses suggestions that Rangers should not have made high-profile signings such as Cammy Bell, Jon Daly, Nicky Law and others on elite-division salaries while the club is losing money in Scottish football’s third tier.

“At Rangers it’s a difficult scenario,” he said. “You talk about cutting their cloth but, at the start of last season Rangers had to have a team that was fairly recognisable in terms of the level of player.

“Even during the season when they were winning there was a whole raft of discontent over the way they were playing. But, this year, what do you do with that?

“Do you say: ‘We are going to go with the same team again?’ You couldn’t do that. They had to [improve] the team. They had to bring in different players.

“People come out and say: ‘It’s not necessary for them to have that in that division’ but it’s not just the division that matters at Rangers, it’s the fact you have 45,000 people coming to watch something on a football pitch.

“That’s where Rangers have to make the difference and, in fairness to Alistair, he has done that this season. They are still losing money but when you make a decision to become involved at Rangers there is no common sense to it.

“There is no common business sense. Yes, there is money going out, it’s a fact. But what do you do?

Unbelievable. More from the man

His comments on the financial waste at Ibrox, under his watch in part, demanded explanation. “I knew they [Rangers] would make a loss [for the financial year ended 30 June] but I wasn’t sure exactly what it would be. It was quite a surprise when it came out to be such a large figure.”

Well, what is your job as chairman? And to finish

On the football side of it, it’s pretty clear that Smith had no issue with McCoist earning £825,000 a year. Also, he has said that giving a player a wage of £7,500 a week (Ian Black, for one) while in the Third Division was not such a big deal. Presumably he had no truck with other deals, like the one given to Fran Sandaza that would have seen the Spaniard’s salary rise to £10,000 a week in the final year of his contract.

The overall wage bill in the Third Division was £7.8 million. Smith said: “People come out and say ‘Ah, it’s not necessary for them to have those players in that division’. But it’s not just the division that matters at Rangers, it’s the fact that you have 45,000 people coming to watch something on a football pitch…They are still losing money. But when you make a decision to be involved at Rangers, there is no common sense to it. The financial bit of Rangers Football Club and common sense don’t often go together.

Heads still firmly stuck in sand. I hope The Rangers go exactly the same way as Rangers. they quite clearly haven't learnt a thing/have a shred of humility

It'll be The the Rangers soon enough. Won't take much of a mind bomb for the average Hun's head to explode.

[PatHead]

It'll be The the Rangers soon enough. Won't take much of a mind bomb for the average Hun's head to explode. But they will be the same team with the same history likes because they don't do walking away. (unless it from debt)

[Just Alf]

Cara Sulieman ‏@carasulieman now
Lord Tyre has granted an interim interdict preventing the AGM from going ahead on Oct 24.

[green glory]

Was just going to post that. I've only been keeping one eye on the The Rangers soap opera recently. Can someone give some idea of the implications of today's rulings.

The worse the better IMO.

[Just Alf]

Cara Sulieman ‏@carasulieman 5m
Judge also ordered Rangers to pay petitioners' expenses.

[Just Alf]

Was just going to post that. I've only been keeping one eye on the The Rangers soap opera recently. Can someone give some idea of the implications of today's rulings.

The worse the better IMO.

good question!

I think it means that the existing board didn't get their own way and that the infighting goes on, hopefully, leaving them a little tight for maneuvering room re sorting their finances?

I HOPE! :cb

[Keith_M]

What the **** is all this about? Nice to see them explicitly called THE Rangers football club though.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/football/24518160


The Rangers decided to allow this guy to use the club's own website to state his desire to join the Board. Considering they've gone to court to try to prevent other people from having appointments to the board even discussed at the AGM, just how desperate must they be to get King into Ibrox.


IMO, this bodes well for the future of The Rangers.... at least from our point of view :wink:

[CropleyWasGod]

good question!

I think it means that the existing board didn't get their own way and that the infighting goes on, hopefully, leaving them a little tight for maneuvering room re sorting their finances?

I HOPE! :cb

That's my take on it.

The old regime are hanging on in the hope that they can get Dave King (and, more importantly, his money) involved to get them out of the hole they're in.

On the DK thing, I don't get why he would go back there, especially since he's already lost £20m.

[ancient hibee]

If King paid £44 million just to get off the hook in South Africa it makes you wonder what he was really up to.Does anyone who is innocent really say cheerio to forty four million smackeroos?Can't see the Isdales being too keen on King after they've got themselves into top dog position.

[green glory]

If King paid £44 million just to get off the hook in South Africa it makes you wonder what he was really up to.Does anyone who is innocent really say cheerio to forty four million smackeroos?Can't see the Isdales being too keen on King after they've got themselves into top dog position.

Could get messy. People might get their fingers burnt. I think there's some form involving fire isn't there?

Anything is possible in this whole sorry saga.

[Keith_M]

Could get messy. People might get their fingers burnt. I think there's some form involving fire isn't there?

Anything is possible in this whole sorry saga.


It's usually buses

[jgl07]

It's usually buses

It could be McGill's buses if the Easdales take control!

Remember that Sandy Easdale couldn't plea-bargain his way out of a jail sentence for tax fraud (unlike Dave King). He was sentenced to 27 months of bird for a mere £1.5 million scam. King paid £40 million!

Add in Craig White and Rangers certainly have some track record on tax fraud.

[monktonharp]

Of course there are rules. There are rules for administrators, and there are rules for liquidators. Most of these rules are backed up by legislation.

What I am trying to describe, though, is the commercial reality. The Airdrie guy didn't want to pay the price, which was clearly too high. Sevco paid the price that was on offer; whether that was the correct market price may yet be questioned. that makes it a bigger sham than most people think! if the market price was offered at around £1, I would have offered £1;10p, bought them and closed them down.

[CropleyWasGod]

that makes it a bigger sham than most people think! if the market price was offered at around £1, I would have offered £1;10p, bought them and closed them down.

That was for the brand only, though. It was part of the package including the properties and the playing staff.

[Keith_M]

20th June, 2011 - Mysterious Fire (http://www.manchesterwired.co.uk/news.php/163593-Fire-at-Greenock-bus-depot-treated-as-wilful) at Wilson's Coaches in Greenock.

19th Feb 2012 - Mysterious Fire (http://www.inverclydenow.com/news/local/6544-three-buses-damaged-in-deliberate-blaze) at Scott Ellis Travel in Inverclyde

-----

Witness report from an unrelated bus fire (http://www.dumbartonreporter.co.uk/news/dumbarton/articles/2013/06/12/460592-dramatic-blaze-on-dumbarton-bus/) (no suspicious circumstances) in Dumbarton

"Coming from Greenock it's not the first bus fire I've seen - I used to work for McGill's buses (:greengrin) in the depot there, I just wanted to keep people away in case there was a lot of diesel on board.

-----


11143

...Gers Bus (not supplied by the Easdales)


11144
....an Easdales bus goes on fire shortly after (total coincidence)

[grunt]

Douglas Fraser ‏ (‏@BBCDouglas)@ (‏@BBCDouglas)BBCDouglas (‏@BBCDouglas) #Rangers (https://twitter.com/search?q=%23Rangers&src=hash)' chief executive Craig Mather quits with immediate effect. So does non-exec director Bryan Smart. #rfc (https://twitter.com/search?q=%23rfc&src=hash)

[down-the-slope]

not read this thread in months - and i'm sure its been said in many ways....

What is it that flies tend to congregate round again ...

[greenginger]

Douglas Fraser ‏@BBCDouglas #Rangers (https://twitter.com/search?q=%23Rangers&src=hash)' chief executive Craig Mather quits with immediate effect. So does non-exec director Bryan Smart. #rfc (https://twitter.com/search?q=%23rfc&src=hash)


Quitting with a juicy severance package no doubt ! :greengrin

[CropleyWasGod]

Quitting with a juicy severance package no doubt ! :greengrin

One would hope.... :greengrin

[Weststandwanab]

Quitting with a juicy severance package no doubt ! :greengrin That will maintain nicely their record of accumulated losses ! Cropley is this rats deserting a sinking ship or making way for a new -sorry old - bean counter ?

[CropleyWasGod]

That will maintain nicely their record of accumulated losses ! Cropley is this rats deserting a sinking ship or making way for a new -sorry old - bean counter ?

For once, I think some honour has been shown.

Mather and Stockbridge appear to have been less than professional in dealing with the attempts to have new directors appointed. It's difficult to know the whole truth, of course, but it says to me that, having been "found out", they have done the decent thing and resigned.

[ballengeich]

For once, I think some honour has been shown.

Mather and Stockbridge appear to have been less than professional in dealing with the attempts to have new directors appointed. It's difficult to know the whole truth, of course, but it says to me that, having been "found out", they have done the decent thing and resigned.

Has Stockbridge left too? I thought it was Mather and Smart (who he?). Isn't Stockbridge Ticketus's inside man?

I agree that Mather has shown some honour. I don't think he was part of the original consortium who've been cleaning up. He's put in £1m of his own money and the CEO's salary for the time he's done the job won't have covered the money he's lost on share value. I've got the impression he's one of Green's victims.

[CropleyWasGod]

Has Stockbridge left too? I thought it was Mather and Smart (who he?). Isn't Stockbridge Ticketus's inside man?

I agree that Mather has shown some honour. I don't think he was part of the original consortium who've been cleaning up. He's put in £1m of his own money and the CEO's salary for the time he's done the job won't have covered the money he's lost on share value. I've got the impression he's one of Green's victims.

The name Smart came up in one of the first reports I read, but I assumed that was a mistake and that it was Stockbridge. (IIRC, Paul Murray wanted Stockbridge out. )

I was wrong, obviously.

Bryan Smart was a non-exec, apparently. Probably "non-exec in charge of losing important documents."

[Deansy]

From 'Random Thoughts', Paul McCoville -

http://scotslawthoughts.wordpress.com/2013/10/16/it-became-necessary-to-destroy-the-town-to-save-it-craig-mathers-departure-from-rangers/

"There have been persistent rumors that the AIM has been looking at the corporate governance of RIFC PLC"


Again, if you've time, CWG, what's your take on this ??. Presumably (hopefully) it's really bad news for them ??

[CropleyWasGod]

From 'Random Thoughts', Paul McCoville -

http://scotslawthoughts.wordpress.com/2013/10/16/it-became-necessary-to-destroy-the-town-to-save-it-craig-mathers-departure-from-rangers/

"There have been persistent rumors that the AIM has been looking at the corporate governance of RIFC PLC"


Again, if you've time, CWG, what's your take on this ??. Presumably (hopefully) it's really bad news for them ??

I agree with PM that that statement is probably mischief-making. However, one might say that PM is making such mischief himself :greengrin The more these things are "suggested", the more likely that the AIM would get involved.

I hadn't realised that there are now just 2 directors on the Board of the Holding Company. (I get confused, though. I'm not sure if that applies to the Football Club Board as well.) That in itself should be grounds for concern, for the shareholders if no-one else. 2 is the absolute minimum required by law, but to have only 2 people in charge of a multi-million pound business, which is publicly traded, is not what one would call the best of governance.

[PatHead]

re Paul Murray the great saviour of The Rangers. Has he ever put money into the club or has he only ever taken it out?

[green glory]

20th June, 2011 - Mysterious Fire (http://www.manchesterwired.co.uk/news.php/163593-Fire-at-Greenock-bus-depot-treated-as-wilful) at Wilson's Coaches in Greenock. 19th Feb 2012 - Mysterious Fire (http://www.inverclydenow.com/news/local/6544-three-buses-damaged-in-deliberate-blaze) at Scott Ellis Travel in Inverclyde ----- Witness report from an unrelated bus fire (http://www.dumbartonreporter.co.uk/news/dumbarton/articles/2013/06/12/460592-dramatic-blaze-on-dumbarton-bus/) (no suspicious circumstances) in Dumbarton "Coming from Greenock it's not the first bus fire I've seen - I used to work for McGill's buses (:greengrin) in the depot there, I just wanted to keep people away in case there was a lot of diesel on board. ----- <img src="http://www.hibs.net/attachment.php?attachmentid=11143"/> ...Gers Bus (not supplied by the Easdales) <img src="http://www.hibs.net/attachment.php?attachmentid=11144"/> ....an Easdales bus goes on fire shortly after (total coincidence)



11148

There's a song in this somewhere.

[ancient hibee]

Presume that the Easedales have not been too impressed with Mather's attempt to get King to pile in with the readies which could only be done by diluting the Easedales stock holdings.No doubt they made him an offer he couldn't refuse.

[Keith_M]

Presume that the Easedales have not been too impressed with Mather's attempt to get King to pile in with the readies which could only be done by diluting the Easedales stock holdings.No doubt they made him an offer he couldn't refuse.


Has his Car gone on fire recently?

[ancient hibee]

Has his Car gone on fire recently?


Don't know but I wouldn't share the airport bus with him.

[Keith_M]

Rangers ex-charman Alastair Johnston reckons that Craig Whyte is still pulling the string at (The) Rangers (http://www.dailyrecord.co.uk/sport/football/football-news/former-rangers-chairman-alastair-johnston-2461159)


Meanwhile, Craig Mather gets whole years salary (http://www.dailyrecord.co.uk/news/scottish-news/ibrox-chief-craig-mather-walks-2461157) of 300K, despite the fact that he 'resigned'. Snoughts in the trough once again.





EDIT: Down with the thread mergers!!!

[CropleyWasGod]

Rangers ex-charman Alastair Johnston reckons that Craig Whyte is still pulling the string at (The) Rangers (http://www.dailyrecord.co.uk/sport/football/football-news/former-rangers-chairman-alastair-johnston-2461159)


Meanwhile, Craig Mather gets whole years salary (http://www.dailyrecord.co.uk/news/scottish-news/ibrox-chief-craig-mather-walks-2461157) of 300K, despite the fact that he 'resigned'. Snoughts in the trough once again.





EDIT: Down with the thread mergers!!!

And there's more :greengrin

http://news.stv.tv/scotland/244013-ex-rangers-director-imran-ahmads-bonus-claim-based-on-green-letter/

[steakbake]

And there's more :greengrin

http://news.stv.tv/scotland/244013-ex-rangers-director-imran-ahmads-bonus-claim-based-on-green-letter/

Hemorrhaging cash - good news.

[Seveno]

I see that Craig Mather has apartner in another business venure call Guy Gisborne. Would that be the baddy from Robin Hood.

Now Robin wore green. And Green is robbin .............

Stranger than fiction or what ?


Never mind, it will be all Whyte on the night.

[Keith_M]

And there's more :greengrin

http://news.stv.tv/scotland/244013-ex-rangers-director-imran-ahmads-bonus-claim-based-on-green-letter/


All hail Ahmed!



I see that Craig Mather has [a partner] in another business [venture called] Guy Gisborne. Would that be the baddy from Robin Hood..

Yep, that's the fella.


"He steals from the Bad
and gives to the...ehm... well... just as dodgy! "

Just doesn't have the same ring to it, does it :greengrin

[southsider]

He is so sad, Since old-co rangers wend bad, He's worn a frown that sudo-ibrox clown. He'll just have to learn to hesitate, to make sure his wage don't quicken up their fate, but he didn't have a single word to say, when chucky green came in and stole their club away.

[Ozyhibby]

http://news.stv.tv/west-central/244205-rangers-armed-forces-offensive-chants-police-inquiry-concludes/

All clear and looking forward to next years jamboree.
So much for this not being what the modern British army was all about.

[Keith_M]

http://news.stv.tv/west-central/244205-rangers-armed-forces-offensive-chants-police-inquiry-concludes/

All clear and looking forward to next years jamboree.
So much for this not being what the modern British army was all about.


How's the SFA/SPFL enquiry into continued sectarian singing by the Sevconians going?

[Springbank]

11148

There's a song in this somewhere.

That is genius

[ballengeich]

If King paid £44 million just to get off the hook in South Africa it makes you wonder what he was really up to.Does anyone who is innocent really say cheerio to forty four million smackeroos?Can't see the Isdales being too keen on King after they've got themselves into top dog position.

He wasn't innocent and didn't get off the hook. A 44 million fine was the alternative sentence to years in gaol.

[Spike Mandela]

http://www.philmacgiollabhain.ie/dave-king-a-man-with-convictions/#more-4072

“On 29th August 2013 at South Gauteng High Court held at Palm David Cunningham King entered a plea of guilty in the South Gauteng High Court held at Palm Ridge, on 41 counts of various contraventions of section 75 of the Income Tax Act 58 of 1962.

“The said plea is in accordance with a plea and sentence agreement in terms of section 105A (1) of the Criminal Procedure Act 51 of 1977, entered into between the accused and the National Prosecuting Authority. The High Court was satisfied that the aforesaid agreement complied with the requirements of the provisions of section 105A (1) of the Criminal Procedure Act, that the accused admitted the allegations in the above-mentioned counts and that he was guilty of the offences.

“The Court was moreover satisfied that the sentence agreement was just, whereupon the Court proceeded to convict the accused of the offences and sentenced the accused in accordance with the sentence agreement.

“In terms of the agreement, the accused was sentenced to a fine of R80, 000.00 or 24 months’ imprisonment on each of the 41 counts, being the maximum sentence provided for in the Income Tax Act read with the Adjustment of Fines Act 101 of 1991. The effective sentence, as confirmed in the agreement, is a fine of R3 280 000.00 or 984 months (82 years) imprisonment.

“The accused has, moreover, agreed to pay to the Criminal Assets Recovery Account (“CARA”) the amount of R8.75 million as contemplated in section 64(e) of Act 121 of 1998.”

For the avoidance of doubt these were criminal proceedings where Dave King pleaded guilty to criminal charges.

[Seveno]

Sounds like Mr King has the ideal qualifications to be the next Chairman of The Rangers.

[southsider]

Will the 'improper persons' regulation within Scottish football take into account King's court case in South Africa ? If so, he can't be Chairman of a lower league side.

[CropleyWasGod]

Will the 'improper persons' regulation within Scottish football take into account King's court case in South Africa ? If so, he can't be Chairman of a lower league side.

I thought that King was Mather's man.

Now that he has gone, there are only 2 directors left. One of them, Esdale, won't be too happy at the thought of someone else being top dog.

If the "rebels" get their way, they may not want King either, although they would like his money of course. Jim McColl may be their favoured money man, although I think he said he didn't want to put any more in.

[dangermouse]

I thought that King was Mather's man.

Now that he has gone, there are only 2 directors left. One of them, Esdale, won't be too happy at the thought of someone else being top dog.

If the "rebels" get their way, they may not want King either, although they would like his money of course. Jim McColl may be their favoured money man, although I think he said he didn't want to put any more in.

Everything will come up smelling like roses then :wink:

[CropleyWasGod]

Everything will come up smelling like roses then :wink:

Once him and George spread ten tons of schecht on 'em. :greengrin

[Keith_M]

.... Jim McColl may be their favoured money man, although I think he said he didn't want to put any more in.


Any more? He's spent the grand total of £3.00 on shares so far.

Some money man :greengrin

[CropleyWasGod]

Any more? He's spent the grand total of £3.00 on shares so far.

Some money man :greengrin

:greengrin

Despite what he says, it wouldn't surprise me if he puts substantial cash in once all the old guard are cleaned out.

[The Falcon]

He wasn't innocent and didn't get off the hook. A 44 million fine was the alternative sentence to years in gaol.

So if you break the law and have plenty money you can avoid jail?

Yip, that sounds just and fair. :rolleyes:

[CropleyWasGod]

So if you break the law and have plenty money you can avoid jail?

Yip, that sounds just and fair. :rolleyes:

It's fairly normal here as well. If you can't pay the fine, you must do the time.

[The Falcon]

:greengrin

Despite what he says, it wouldn't surprise me if he puts substantial cash in once all the old guard are cleaned out.

And the board will contain a few familiar faces from pre Craig Whyte and its a case of "job done" :wink:

[CropleyWasGod]

And the board will contain a few familiar faces from pre Craig Whyte and its a case of "job done" :wink:

Indeed. The same lot who ran up the massive debt in the first place. :cb

[greenginger]

And the board will contain a few familiar faces from pre Craig Whyte and its a case of "job done" :wink:

Does the rule preventing persons who were directors of a Club for up to 5 years before an insolvency event, becoming directors of another club, not bar the " familiar faces ".

A bit like that Livingston chancer who bid for HOMFC.

[lapsedhibee]

Does the rule preventing persons who were directors of a Club for up to 5 years before an insolvency event, becoming directors of another club, not bar the " familiar faces ".


Think we can all smell the loophole there. :grr:

[ancient hibee]

He wasn't innocent and didn't get off the hook. A 44 million fine was the alternative sentence to years in gaol.


The point I was trying(badly)to make was that he paid the money and pleaded guilty to the Income Tax charges to avoid trial on various racketeering charges which the authorities then agreed to drop.

[Deansy]

Will the 'improper persons' regulation within Scottish football take into account King's court case in South Africa ? If so, he can't be Chairman of a lower league side.

Not beyond the realms of possibility that the SFA will belatedly decree that 'Improper Offences' only applies to offences within the UK !!

[green glory]

Think we can all smell the loophole there. :grr:

I'd be happy with that. It would mean the orcs would have to accept they're Scotland's youngest club.

[Ozyhibby]

The point I was trying(badly)to make was that he paid the money and pleaded guilty to the Income Tax charges to avoid trial on various racketeering charges which the authorities then agreed to drop.

He was found guilty. All he pleaded was his sentence. He is a convicted tax evader who should not be allowed anywhere near Scottish football if the SFA have learned anything from the Murray/ Whyte fiasco.

[lapsedhibee]

He was found guilty. All he pleaded was his sentence. He is a convicted tax evader who should not be allowed anywhere near Scottish football if the SFA have learned anything from the Murray/ Whyte fiasco.

Auntie. Baws. Etc.

[fatbloke]

Spotted near the Pleasure Beach in Blackpool on 18.10.13. I suppose they have to recoup their lost £14million somehow.11156

[jgl07]

He was found guilty. All he pleaded was his sentence. He is a convicted tax evader who should not be allowed anywhere near Scottish football if the SFA have learned anything from the Murray/ Whyte fiasco.

Well they already have Sandy Easdale!

[Part/Time Supporter]

http://www.ft.com/cms/s/0/5320d384-3754-11e3-9603-00144feab7de.html?siteedition=uk#axzz2iIQmBAkR

Financial Times - Rangers in danger of getting red card over governance



You wouldn’t run a football match the way that Rangers Plc is being managed. Indeed, you couldn’t under the laws of the beautiful game.

Even before Rangers International Football Club has completed its first full year as a public company, it has lost all but one of its original eight directors and is on its third nominated adviser, or nomad. That is the nearest thing the Alternative Investment Market has to a referee.

....

Even now, when Rangers’ governance has gone beyond normal measures of appropriateness, the LSE has not rushed in with a red card. Yet.

But the nomad will have to justify to the LSE the “appropriateness” of any board candidate. It will be tough to find someone who meets the LSE’s criteria and is willing and able to broker a long-term peace. But if it cannot, then the RIFC’s shares are likely to be suspended. And if the warring continues, the company’s Aim quote will be cancelled, stranding shareholders – including thousands of Rangers fans – with untradeable equity.

The most elegant end to this tawdry tale would be to find a buyer to take RIFC off the public market. Then at least fans will have a chance of selling out at something like a fair price.

[green glory]

http://www.ft.com/cms/s/0/5320d384-3754-11e3-9603-00144feab7de.html?siteedition=uk#axzz2iIQmBAkR Financial Times - Rangers in danger of getting red card over governance

So another stupid billionaire with 'off the radar wealth' required. Or the tribute act is in soapy bubble too.

[Treadstone]

Traynor away.

http://www.rangers.co.uk/news/headlines/item/5443-club-statement

[Sergio sledge]

Traynor away.

http://www.rangers.co.uk/news/headlines/item/5443-club-statement

He'll have trouble getting another journalism job in Scotland, well and truly burnt his bridges.

[Peevemor]

He'll have trouble getting another journalism job in Scotland, well and truly burnt his bridges.

I don't think so. The tabloids don't care what they do/who they employ, as long as it sells papers.

[Spike Mandela]

Traynor away.

http://www.rangers.co.uk/news/headlines/item/5443-club-statement

He better not end up back on the BBC. Would never listen again.

[davieh]

That statement is short and sweet, isn't it..? No "would like to thank JT for all his work/best for the future blah blah"

[hibby rae]

http://news.stv.tv/west-central/246670-james-traynor-leaves-post-as-rangers-director-of-communications/

Pr!ck.

[fatbloke]

SSN broadcasting Jim Traynor leaving Rangers. Hope RP does not see this. Traynor thinks or thought he knew it all - new manager material? Discuss:greengrin

[Pretty Boy]

Fat hun fud waste of space.

Hope he nevers works in the media again.

[Jonnyboy]

Hopefully this will prevent him getting a job in the written media .........

He had used his final newspaper column to label bloggers and journalists “despicable, pathetic little creatures” over their coverage of Rangers’ financial problems.

[Jack Hackett]

That statement is short and sweet, isn't it..? No "would like to thank JT for all his work/best for the future blah blah"

Yep!

"RANGERS today announce that Director of Propaganda James Traynor has left the Club." (fixed that for them :greengrin)

Looks like the fat fraud has been unceremoniously handed his jotters :aok:

[Keith_M]

So, the company that advise The Rangers on financial matters are themselves close to going bust (http://www.scotsman.com/sport/football/spfl-lower-divisions/rangers-ibrox-financial-advisers-may-go-bust-1-3172449). They made a loss of 1.7M last year and have apparently made massive losses since.



No wonder NewHun are already in trouble if that's the people advising them on finances :greengrin

[banarc7062]

So, the company that advise The Rangers on financial matters are themselves close to going bust (http://www.scotsman.com/sport/football/spfl-lower-divisions/rangers-ibrox-financial-advisers-may-go-bust-1-3172449). They made a loss of 1.7M last year and have apparently made massive losses since.



No wonder NewHun are already in trouble if that's the people advising them on finances :greengrin

Ma heart bleeds for them.:na na::na na::flag:

[green glory]

An interesting post on Kerrydalestreet. We've all been caught up in the saga of Butcher's bunnet since last week.


It would appear that Pinsent Masons did, in fact, do a thorough investigation into the links between Green and Whyte.
Which concluded that Sevco 5088 was a joint Green-Whyte project which attracted many millions of pounds of investment, with the Whyte shares being hidden behind the screen of Blue Pitch (Mazen Houssami - Abelas' lawyer), Norne Ansalt (Abela), Margarita Holdings (Abela), Elias Kaisar (Abela), Riad Haddad (Abela) and Asia Credit (Chris Morgan - Abela).
That's the Abela family from Beirut, Lebanon, who have links to Monaco (like Whyte) and Grasse, the perfume capital of France, where Whyte also had business connections.
Those Sevco 5088 shares were then transferred almost in total to Sevco Scotland, with Blue Pitch and Margarita seen as the most significant shareholders.
The Whyte link to Sevco 5088 is clear.
The Whyte link to Sevco Scotland is hidden behind the Abela curtain.
FC Spivco said Whyte had no link to Sevco Scotland. They said nothing about Sevco 5088.

It would appear Police Scotland now have their hands on the full Pinsent Masons report.
A moment of total panic for the Spivs.
And the Brogues.
And the SFA.

Because if the truth is revealed, the SFA membership of FC Spivco has to be rescinded.

So place your bets: Will it be Greenock Rangers or Cowdenbeath Rangers?

[neilmartinrocks]

An interesting post on Kerrydalestreet. We've all been caught up in the saga of Butcher's bunnet since last week.


It would appear that Pinsent Masons did, in fact, do a thorough investigation into the links between Green and Whyte.
Which concluded that Sevco 5088 was a joint Green-Whyte project which attracted many millions of pounds of investment, with the Whyte shares being hidden behind the screen of Blue Pitch (Mazen Houssami - Abelas' lawyer), Norne Ansalt (Abela), Margarita Holdings (Abela), Elias Kaisar (Abela), Riad Haddad (Abela) and Asia Credit (Chris Morgan - Abela).
That's the Abela family from Beirut, Lebanon, who have links to Monaco (like Whyte) and Grasse, the perfume capital of France, where Whyte also had business connections.
Those Sevco 5088 shares were then transferred almost in total to Sevco Scotland, with Blue Pitch and Margarita seen as the most significant shareholders.
The Whyte link to Sevco 5088 is clear.
The Whyte link to Sevco Scotland is hidden behind the Abela curtain.
FC Spivco said Whyte had no link to Sevco Scotland. They said nothing about Sevco 5088.

It would appear Police Scotland now have their hands on the full Pinsent Masons report.
A moment of total panic for the Spivs.
And the Brogues.
And the SFA.

Because if the truth is revealed, the SFA membership of FC Spivco has to be rescinded.

So place your bets: Will it be Greenock Rangers or Cowdenbeath Rangers?

Or maybe just the the rangers intergalactic f.c. plc :greengrin

[Ozyhibby]

An interesting post on Kerrydalestreet. We've all been caught up in the saga of Butcher's bunnet since last week.


It would appear that Pinsent Masons did, in fact, do a thorough investigation into the links between Green and Whyte.
Which concluded that Sevco 5088 was a joint Green-Whyte project which attracted many millions of pounds of investment, with the Whyte shares being hidden behind the screen of Blue Pitch (Mazen Houssami - Abelas' lawyer), Norne Ansalt (Abela), Margarita Holdings (Abela), Elias Kaisar (Abela), Riad Haddad (Abela) and Asia Credit (Chris Morgan - Abela).
That's the Abela family from Beirut, Lebanon, who have links to Monaco (like Whyte) and Grasse, the perfume capital of France, where Whyte also had business connections.
Those Sevco 5088 shares were then transferred almost in total to Sevco Scotland, with Blue Pitch and Margarita seen as the most significant shareholders.
The Whyte link to Sevco 5088 is clear.
The Whyte link to Sevco Scotland is hidden behind the Abela curtain.
FC Spivco said Whyte had no link to Sevco Scotland. They said nothing about Sevco 5088.

It would appear Police Scotland now have their hands on the full Pinsent Masons report.
A moment of total panic for the Spivs.
And the Brogues.
And the SFA.

Because if the truth is revealed, the SFA membership of FC Spivco has to be rescinded.

So place your bets: Will it be Greenock Rangers or Cowdenbeath Rangers?

It will be ignored by the SFA. Your deluding yourself if you think any different.

[cwilliamson85]

It will be ignored by the SFA. Your deluding yourself if you think any different.

It’s a Police Scotland's Economic Crime Unit investigation so the SFA will have no way of squirming out of any punishment if there has been any wrong doing.

[ancient hibee]

An interesting post on Kerrydalestreet. We've all been caught up in the saga of Butcher's bunnet since last week.


It would appear that Pinsent Masons did, in fact, do a thorough investigation into the links between Green and Whyte.
Which concluded that Sevco 5088 was a joint Green-Whyte project which attracted many millions of pounds of investment, with the Whyte shares being hidden behind the screen of Blue Pitch (Mazen Houssami - Abelas' lawyer), Norne Ansalt (Abela), Margarita Holdings (Abela), Elias Kaisar (Abela), Riad Haddad (Abela) and Asia Credit (Chris Morgan - Abela).
That's the Abela family from Beirut, Lebanon, who have links to Monaco (like Whyte) and Grasse, the perfume capital of France, where Whyte also had business connections.
Those Sevco 5088 shares were then transferred almost in total to Sevco Scotland, with Blue Pitch and Margarita seen as the most significant shareholders.
The Whyte link to Sevco 5088 is clear.
The Whyte link to Sevco Scotland is hidden behind the Abela curtain.
FC Spivco said Whyte had no link to Sevco Scotland. They said nothing about Sevco 5088.

It would appear Police Scotland now have their hands on the full Pinsent Masons report.
A moment of total panic for the Spivs.
And the Brogues.
And the SFA.

Because if the truth is revealed, the SFA membership of FC Spivco has to be rescinded.

So place your bets: Will it be Greenock Rangers or Cowdenbeath Rangers?

And is there any truth in this?

[cabbageandribs1875]

So place your bets: Will it be Greenock Rangers or Cowdenbeath Rangers?



Edinburgh Rangers









oops...we already have one of them

[BH Hibs]

Is this a fact or a Kerrydalestreet fact

[poolman]

http://news.stv.tv/west-central/246670-james-traynor-leaves-post-as-rangers-director-of-communications/

Pr!ck.


Of the very highest order :agree:

[EuanH78]

Police are definitely involved. The pinsent mason report is the basis of whatever it is they are investigating re whyte and sevco. Dont know about the rest of the kds post tho

[robinp]

Day those pesky Catholic minded polis and green minded solicitors no huv anyhing better eh day than percy cute the ra-Rangers!?

[Hibernia&Alba]

Day those pesky Catholic minded polis and green minded solicitors no huv anyhing better eh day than percy cute the ra-Rangers!?

Ssshhh, it's all a huge conspiracy


11307

[Jonnyboy]

It will be ignored by the SFA. Your deluding yourself if you think any different.

No doubt the SFA will find that none of their rules have been broken

[lucky]

It's time for all this crap to end. Rangers went bust and the new rangers are working their way back up the leagues. Who cares who owns them

[fat freddy]

It's time for all this crap to end. Rangers went bust and the new rangers are working their way back up the leagues. Who cares who owns them


T'Rangers fans care..most i know want Easdales out.

[steakbake]

The DR goes in to bat for Sevco over Whytes signature on a document - can't find the link but I reckon the MSM will be spinning this particular investigation for all it's worth.

[Tynie01011973]

The DR goes in to bat for Sevco over Whytes signature on a document - can't find the link but I reckon the MSM will be spinning this particular investigation for all it's worth.

http://www.dailyrecord.co.uk/sport/football/football-news/rangers-claim-police-probing-disputed-2785488

[Part/Time Supporter]

http://sport.stv.tv/football/clubs/rangers/248866-rangers-to-complain-to-scottish-fa-over-celtic-chief-executives-jibe/


Rangers say they will complain to the Scottish FA following comments made by Celtic chief executive Peter Lawwell.

Asked for his thoughts by a shareholder at Celtic's Annual General Meeting on why some in the media refer to Rangers as a club in existence since 1872, rather than a new club because of the liquidation of the company operating the club in 2012, Lawwell quipped: "Rory Bremner can pretend to be Tony Blair."

In response, a statement from the Ibrox side on Friday evening read: "The club are disappointed with the comments attributed to Celtic chief executive Peter Lawwell earlier today.

"Rangers Football Club, now in its 141st year, has a proud history which has been recognised by the football authorities and was noted in a recent SPL Commission determination.

"The club will now take this matter up with the relevant football authorities."

Lawwell sits on the Scottish FA's main board as the representative from the governing body's Professional Game Board.

Not sure what's funnier tbh, Lawwell's wee jibe or Sevco throwing a hissy fit.

[steakbake]

http://sport.stv.tv/football/clubs/rangers/248866-rangers-to-complain-to-scottish-fa-over-celtic-chief-executives-jibe/



Not sure what's funnier tbh, Lawwell's wee jibe or Sevco throwing a hissy fit.

Typical Sevco... still, hopefully pursuing trivialities like this with their legal people will drain the club of nonexistent cash.

[Prof. Shaggy]

Typical Sevco... still, hopefully pursuing trivialities like this with their legal people will drain the club of nonexistent cash.

TRFC: "Hopefully Pursuing Trivialities since 2012."

Has a ring to it.

(please don't tell their legal people)

"We arra legal people"

[Springbank]

I can't wait for the resumption of the Old Friends derby

[Ozyhibby]

Raises an important question for is in how we deal with them when we eventually play them. I would hope that we make it clear that we regard them as a new club that we are playing for the first time.

[Pedantic_Hibee]

Raises an important question for is in how we deal with them when we eventually play them. I would hope that we make it clear that we regard them as a new club that we are playing for the first time.

I've been banging this drum since their inception last year and I hope every other club follows suit.

[AndyM_1875]

Raises an important question for is in how we deal with them when we eventually play them. I would hope that we make it clear that we regard them as a new club that we are playing for the first time.


In what respect? We'll have to arrange witn the police for a Category A fixture and a probable tinderbox at that. The match will be live on TV and under intense scrutiny. Our new manager whilst at ICT has already described RFC as "technically, a new club" much to the disgust of ra peepil.

There will be 3500 of them in the away end and you can shout whatever you like at them. You might want us all to regard them as a new club but I guarantee you Hibs fans will use the following words : Hun, bluenose, bigot ****.

That's about 20 months away if on league duty. I hope we stuff them.

[mca]

In what respect? We'll have to arrange witn the police for a Category A fixture and a probable tinderbox at that. The match will be live on TV and under intense scrutiny. Our new manager whilst at ICT has already described RFC as "technically, a new club" much to the disgust of ra peepil.

There will be 3500 of them in the away end and you can shout whatever you like at them. You might want us all to regard them as a new club but I guarantee you Hibs fans will use the following words : Hun, bluenose, bigot ****.

That's about 20 months away if on league duty. I hope we stuff them.



. Thought they were going to boycott every spl team (at the time) did they not boycott dundee utd.. and how did that get on ??

[Ozyhibby]

In what respect? We'll have to arrange witn the police for a Category A fixture and a probable tinderbox at that. The match will be live on TV and under intense scrutiny. Our new manager whilst at ICT has already described RFC as "technically, a new club" much to the disgust of ra peepil.

There will be 3500 of them in the away end and you can shout whatever you like at them. You might want us all to regard them as a new club but I guarantee you Hibs fans will use the following words : Hun, bluenose, bigot ****.

That's about 20 months away if on league duty. I hope we stuff them.

In the respect that we make it clear that we welcome the new club on their first visit to Easter road. The Match day program shows only the new clubs honours and makes no reference whatsoever to players of the old club or famous games against the old club. A blanket refusal by anyone at the club to acknowledge they are the same club.
As both the old and new club appear to have the same set of fans then I think any insults or abuse we used to give them is transferable.

[Brando7]

They are a new club look here and select R they not on the list only rangers (Womans team) :wink:

http://www.uefa.com/teamsandplayers/index.html

[green glory]

Today's the day BDO publish their report.

Hopefully lots of juicy details.

[AndyM_1875]

In the respect that we make it clear that we welcome the new club on their first visit to Easter road. The Match day program shows only the new clubs honours and makes no reference whatsoever to players of the old club or famous games against the old club. A blanket refusal by anyone at the club to acknowledge they are the same club.
As both the old and new club appear to have the same set of fans then I think any insults or abuse we used to give them is transferable.


You and I both know that Hibs won't even raise that topic.
Rod Petrie will insist we keep our dignity and that we are calm, rational and business like. He will have a meeting with the Match Commander whose first priority is public order will issue a list of strict instructions for Hibs who will follow them to the letter.

The Tache knows how to play the politics and will work with the manager to play everything down prior to what will no doubt be a highly charged affair. The match program will have some brief & bland filler details on Rangers current players, their current league/cup form and absolutely nothing on their trials and tribulations. The Hibs Match Announcer will also be under strict orders to do nothing more than play music and read out the teams and any scores. There will be no stupid wind ups designed to inflame.

As an aside let us watch with interest how our chums in Gorgie deal with the Rangers situation when they meet them on League business in 2014. There will be more than a few Premiership clubs looking for a precedent there.

[greenginger]

http://www.londonstockexchange.com/exchange/prices-and-markets/stocks/summary/company-summary.html?fourWayKey=GB00B90T9Z75GBGBXASQ1
Somebody just dumped over 3.3 million shares in a single trade. Somebody bailing out ?

[Ozyhibby]

http://www.londonstockexchange.com/exchange/prices-and-markets/stocks/summary/company-summary.html?fourWayKey=GB00B90T9Z75GBGBXASQ1
Somebody just dumped over 3.3 million shares in a single trade. Somebody bailing out ?

If someone is selling then there must be a buyer. Someone bailing in?

[PatHead]

See the SPFL are pursuing The Rangers for the £250,000 fine imposed for using EBTs without declaring them. They are treating it as a football debt. Can't wait to hear the screaming saying "this has nothing to do with us, it was the old club which don't exist any more except when we refer to history and trophies. We don't want any of their debts." http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/football/25023927

[monktonharp]

You and I both know that Hibs won't even raise that topic.
Rod Petrie will insist we keep our dignity and that we are calm, rational and business like. He will have a meeting with the Match Commander whose first priority is public order will issue a list of strict instructions for Hibs who will follow them to the letter.

The Tache knows how to play the politics and will work with the manager to play everything down prior to what will no doubt be a highly charged affair. The match program will have some brief & bland filler details on Rangers current players, their current league/cup form and absolutely nothing on their trials and tribulations. The Hibs Match Announcer will also be under strict orders to do nothing more than play music and read out the teams and any scores. There will be no stupid wind ups designed to inflame.

As an aside let us watch with interest how our chums in Gorgie deal with the Rangers situation when they meet them on League business in 2014. There will be more than a few Premiership clubs looking for a precedent there. I agree with what you say, or expect from Hibernian. however, I do get a bit miffed about the Hmofc derby day programme when they list us as 1875, and reformed blah blah. our club should reciprocate with a correct mention of them being formed 1874, (under a dubious name) and actually wound up, in 1905, before starting off again. silly we argument I know, but it's a fact.

[Off the bar]

new post from Paul McConville talking about the SPFL chasing the £250k fine from the Nimmo judgement, not much new but interesting enough and should keep this thread form slipping off the main page!

Just don't read the comments, I always assumed the worst of sevcos fans could'nt read or write but wow there are some morons on there. In fairness the tic fans commenting there are largely idiots but some of the huns are unreal.

http://scotslawthoughts.wordpress.com/2013/11/22/myths-and-legends-the-spfl-and-the-250k-fine-of-rangers/#more-4317

[s.a.m]

new post from Paul McConville talking about the SPFL chasing the £250k fine from the Nimmo judgement, not much new but interesting enough and should keep this thread form slipping off the main page!

Just don't read the comments, I always assumed the worst of sevcos fans could'nt read or write but wow there are some morons on there. In fairness the tic fans commenting there are largely idiots but some of the huns are unreal.

http://scotslawthoughts.wordpress.com/2013/11/22/myths-and-legends-the-spfl-and-the-250k-fine-of-rangers/#more-4317

I was shocked to read a few moments ago that Paul McConville died a few days ago. He was 47, apparently. Apologies if this has already been posted elsewhere, this is the first I heard of it.


ianssmart
Sunday, 1 December 2013

Paul McConville

It has been a bad week. Obviously the thoughts of all decent people are with those affected by the Clutha Vaults tragedy. Much has been written elsewhere about that, more eloquently than I could ever do, so I will not add to it.

But on Friday as I sat down to consider the subject of my usual Sunday blog, which inevitably will be about the White Paper, I had already decided that I also had to say something about a more private tragedy which affected me earlier in the week. In the end I decided that tacking it on to a more political piece was inappropriate so it will stand alone.

On Tuesday evening, towards the end of the Celtic Milan game word started coming through on twitter about the death of my friend, professional colleague and fellow blogger Paul McConville.

It was so sudden and unexpected that at first I couldn't be sure it was true. Tragically, it was. Suddenly and without warning of any sort he was gone, from what is suspected to have been a heart attack.

I've known Paul for more than twenty years, since he was a trainee solicitor with Hughie Trainor in Coatbridge. Although his work then took him to Courts beyond Airdrie, he remained a frequent visitor there and much regarded company by all at the local bar.

It is no secret that he had had a difficult professional career, with the collapse of his own firm several years back leading him to suffer a bout of acute depression and the inevitable round of tabloid publicity that is attracted to any lawyer "falling down on the job". But, contrary to the later malicious allegations of those who set out to harm him, he took nobody's money. His business failed and he became ill. That was all. And later he himself spoke bravely and openly about that period.

But it was in the aftermath of that trauma that he established almost a second life as an internet commentator through his "Random Thoughts re Scots Law" blog.

If you consider the topics listed on the right hand side of his site you will see the breadth of the subjects he covered. Always with wit; regularly with unique insight.

He is however probably most famous for his chronicling of the various machinations at Ibrox and in the Courts before and after the liquidation of Rangers. This was territory he must have known would lead to him attracting attention and abuse in equal measure, abuse that shamefully continued even after his death. Anybody who thinks political blogging in Scotland should not be for the faint hearted should look for a moment at some of what goes on around the Old Firm. And threats in that context cannot as easily be shrugged off as internet bravado as those made in the political world.

To all of this however, in life, Paul brought the same drollery and common sense rationality that surrounded him in the "real" world. Truth and accuracy would allow him to triumph in argument time and time again.

It even lead him to some sort of minor celebrity among the "Celtic family", although it was truly the case, as he never ceased insisting, that his first and truest football loyalty was always to the mighty Albion Rovers.

It was a celebrity he never sought, for he remained above all a modest, deeply religious, family man. He wrote only a couple of months back about the joy of celebrating his 20th Wedding Anniversary with an openness and patent sincerity, indeed, in the proper sense, love, that would have defied most West of Scotland men to express.

Any death is a tragedy but the death so young of such a patently good man is almost impossible to come to terms with.

My thoughts are obviously with Val and his girls. The days ahead will be difficult for them. But when we gather for his funeral hopefully the size of the attendance there will give them some appreciation that their great loss is one shared, in an inevitably smaller way, by so many others.

Rest in Peace big man. You'll be missed.

http://www.philmacgiollabhain.ie/paul-mcconville/
http://henryclarson.wordpress.com/2013/11/27/paul-mcconville-a-tribute/

[jacomo]

RIP indeed and condolences to his family and friends. Blimey.

[SurferRosa]

Yes, sad news about Paul McConville. His blog was always informative and never abusive. It was light-hearted and his analysis of all the shennagins at Ibrox was clear and easy to understand, even for such as me who know little about the intricacies of law and finance. Such a shame.

R.I.P. Paul.

[PatHead]

RIP. How sad he died before seeing Albion Rovers beat Motherwell.

[CropleyWasGod]

Echoed.....

[sadtom]

R.I.P. Paul.
Showed a lot of courage and provided great service by doing what so many in the mainstream shyed away from.

[Seveno]

How sad. I always enjoyed his blog and he helped to fill that huge gap left by the MSM.

R.I.P. Paul and my condolences his family.

[Spike Mandela]

The requisitioners are ****ed..........

http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/football/25423601

[Billy Whizz]

The requisitioners are ****ed..........

http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/football/25423601

I was listening to the Clyde 1 phone in tonight, and the presenters were speculating that if they didn't sell someone like Lee Wallace in January, they may run out of money before the end of the season.
How fun that would be

[Ronniekirk]

The requisitioners are ****ed..........

http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/football/25423601
What's going on in that picture Sandy Jardine looks like he has had two fingers amputated and is squirting something into his mouth Maybe all this in fighting has left a bad taste in their.