Generic Sevco / Rangers meltdown thread

[Kaiser1962]

Sandy Jardine in the Evening Times on why players should be queuing up to sign for Rangers:

"Why not? You have got the best stadium in Scotland, the best training ground in Scotland, the best supporters in Scotland and the best crowds in Scotland. It is a no-brainer."

Is he not forgetting one important factor ....... the quality of football they play week in week out for THREE YEARS.

As usual Sandra is wrong as Celtic have bigger crowds. The other three points are subjective and, generally, Celtic's Lennoxtown and our own East Mains are equally highly regarded by professionals within the game, if not more so than Murray Park.

[Seveno]

This has little relevance for TRFC now.

If OldCo win their appeal, there will be more cash available for the other creditors.

If they don't, HMRC may have ammunition to go after some of the OldCo directors personally, although I think that's unlikely. They may also have some precedence for dealing with other clubs and EBT's; even then, IIRC, FTT decisions don't have the same value in precedent terms as "full" Courts.

I beg to differ. If the FTT comes out in favour of HMRC then it provides further evidence for the dual contracts investigation. As I understand the deal to allow Sevco the SFA registration, they had to accept liability for the sins of Oldco.

[grunt]

The position now is that Sevco have obtained the 'best' stadium and training ground in Scotland for £1.5m while Hibs paid £3.5m for a single stand and £5.5m for their training ground and Hearts paid £2.5m plus an annual rental for their training ground and can't afford to upgrade their stadium. Sevco also paid a single pound for the goodwill of the 'best' fans in Scotland - if that's not gaining an unfair sporting advantage nothing is. Sadly, although there's plenty to get the blood vessels popping there's not much the law or football regulations can or will do about it.And at the same time their predecessor company has stiffed the UK taxpayer by something approaching £100m, as well as stiffing myriad local businesses and some football clubs of varying amounts. This thread has become a really depressing read recently.

[Kaiser1962]

This has little relevance for TRFC now.

If OldCo win their appeal, there will be more cash available for the other creditors.

If they don't, HMRC may have ammunition to go after some of the OldCo directors personally, although I think that's unlikely. They may also have some precedence for dealing with other clubs and EBT's; even then, IIRC, FTT decisions don't have the same value in precedent terms as "full" Courts.

The financial aspect rgarding the tax case may be over but I recall there were a number of discussions that The Rangers accepted (a degree of) responsibility for the double contracts scam that their predecessors operated. I am sure this was part of the agreement by which they obtained SFA membership.

[AndyM_1875]

I beg to differ. If the FTT comes out in favour of HMRC then it provides further evidence for the dual contracts investigation. As I understand the deal to allow Sevco the SFA registration, they had to accept liability for the sins of Oldco.

Sevco can argue that as they are paying and planning to pay all Oldco Footballing Debt then they are doing so.

[Ozyhibby]

I think the only development that really matters now is the investigation into dual contracts.
A guilty verdict there can see the SPL dish out any punishment it sees fit. This could include a ten year ban from Europe, a million pound a year fine for ten years, expulsion from the league etc.
Anyone waiting for BDO to unwind the purchase etc will be disappointed. They will bleed what's left of the old rangers dry and then wind it up without a second thought for the creditors.
Our only hope is that the spl decide that a debt free Rangers in 2015 is too much and impose a significant financial penalty on them for cheating for ten years.
This is what green is most anxious to avoid which is why they are making so much noise about stripping of titles as if this is the worst that could happen to them.
Stripping of titles would not effect his business going forward one bit.

[CropleyWasGod]

I beg to differ. If the FTT comes out in favour of HMRC then it provides further evidence for the dual contracts investigation. As I understand the deal to allow Sevco the SFA registration, they had to accept liability for the sins of Oldco.

One would hope that the evidence would be the same.:greengrin

[ballengeich]

The financial aspect rgarding the tax case may be over but I recall there were a number of discussions that The Rangers accepted (a degree of) responsibility for the double contracts scam that their predecessors operated. I am sure this was part of the agreement by which they obtained SFA membership.

Much will depend on the exact terms of the deal that was struck. They've accepted that they should pay the outstanding transfer debts to other clubs, but I don't know how much more is expected of them.

Removal of historic titles can be carried out regardless. However, it would appear fair to me that any prize-money won using incorrectly registered players should be returned, and that there should be additional financial and points penalties in the future. Have the SFA insisted on an agreement that allows this to happen? I hope so, but I doubt it given the way they've bent rules to help Green's new company in other areas.

The attitude of UEFA in future could be interesting. They're treating the club as a completely new entity for entry to Europe, hence the three year exclusion while they build an accounting history. If it emerges that Rangers were fielding ineligible players for years, and arguably depriving defeated opponents of money by progressing further than would have been the case without these players, will UEFA say they're a new club and nothing further can be done?

[AndyM_1875]

I think the only development that really matters now is the investigation into dual contracts.
A guilty verdict there can see the SPL dish out any punishment it sees fit. This could include a ten year ban from Europe, a million pound a year fine for ten years, expulsion from the league etc.
Anyone waiting for BDO to unwind the purchase etc will be disappointed. They will bleed what's left of the old rangers dry and then wind it up without a second thought for the creditors.
Our only hope is that the spl decide that a debt free Rangers in 2015 is too much and impose a significant financial penalty on them for cheating for ten years.
This is what green is most anxious to avoid which is why they are making so much noise about stripping of titles as if this is the worst that could happen to them.
Stripping of titles would not effect his business going forward one bit.


I have little faith in the SPL to do anything else and a feeling that Green will deliver exactly what you suggest in 2015. A debt free Rangers to the SPL.

Trying to put sanctions on them again then will fail. I have little doubt that Rangers lawyers will be ready to pounce and I'd question if by then there will be the stomach for contunuing to sanction Rangers three years from now.

[ballengeich]

Our only hope is that the spl decide that a debt free Rangers in 2015 is too much and impose a significant financial penalty on them for cheating for ten years.
This is what green is most anxious to avoid which is why they are making so much noise about stripping of titles as if this is the worst that could happen to them.
Stripping of titles would not effect his business going forward one bit.

Green would be delighted by stripping of titles. His sales pitch is based on poor Rangers being persecuted, and he'll play this one for every £million it's worth.

[jgl07]

I have little faith in the SPL to do anything else and a feeling that Green will deliver exactly what you suggest in 2015. A debt free Rangers to the SPL.

Trying to put sanctions on them again then will fail. I have little doubt that Rangers lawyers will be ready to pounce and I'd question if by then there will be the stomach for contunuing to sanction Rangers three years from now.

If they don't pay off Rapid Vienna, Chelsea, Manchester City etc, FIFA will be on their case and the European ban could run a lot longer.

[Seveno]

One would hope that the evidence would be the same.:greengrin

Yes, it's called corroboration. :greengrin:greengrin

[CropleyWasGod]

Yes, it's called corroboration. :greengrin:greengrin

The very rock of Scots justice which we're about to kick into touch. :rolleyes:

Actually, I was being sardonic (sarcastic?) in hoping that each of the FTT and SPL would see the same bits of paper, unshredded, with the same things written on them, leading to the same conclusion...... am I being too naive? :cb

[CropleyWasGod]

I think the only development that really matters now is the investigation into dual contracts.
A guilty verdict there can see the SPL dish out any punishment it sees fit. This could include a ten year ban from Europe, a million pound a year fine for ten years, expulsion from the league etc.
Anyone waiting for BDO to unwind the purchase etc will be disappointed. They will bleed what's left of the old rangers dry and then wind it up without a second thought for the creditors.
Our only hope is that the spl decide that a debt free Rangers in 2015 is too much and impose a significant financial penalty on them for cheating for ten years.
This is what green is most anxious to avoid which is why they are making so much noise about stripping of titles as if this is the worst that could happen to them.
Stripping of titles would not effect his business going forward one bit.

That's quite a charge. Have you had previous dealings with them, or do you have other reasons for saying that?

[Seveno]

The very rock of Scots justice which we're about to kick into touch. :rolleyes:

Actually, I was being sardonic (sarcastic?) in hoping that each of the FTT and SPL would see the same bits of paper, unshredded, with the same things written on them, leading to the same conclusion...... am I being too naive? :cb

I would never accuse you of that. All the FTT and SFA had to do was to write a nice letter to Mark Daly for the evidence. I did not grudge one penny of my TV Licence fee this year. :greengrin

[Winston Ingram]

Green would be delighted by stripping of titles. His sales pitch is based on poor Rangers being persecuted, and he'll play this one for every £million it's worth.

He's certainly used the 'victim' approach well so far. There appears to be far less resistance to him now in the Hun support:agree:

[LeighLoyal]

He's certainly used the 'victim' approach well so far. There appears to be far less resistance to him now in the Hun support:agree:



Poor them, eh? A possible £140m in unpaid debts, probably a lot more when you factor in Murray's personal debt mountain that underwrote the failed share issue. A compliant, corrupt SFA, bending the rules at every turn to accommodate his mysterons dodgy purchase from an even dodgier administrator. The only victims in this are the honest people who did business with Murray and Whyte, and Scottish football, not his scandalous newco.

[AndyM_1875]

He's certainly used the 'victim' approach well so far. There appears to be far less resistance to him now in the Hun support:agree:

Things are ticking over nicely for Charlie boy.

The debt has been shed and the Bluenoses are pretty much onside and turning up in their droves whilst the dopey Sellik muppets (despite having a team in the Champions League) continue to obsess, whinge and greet about his every utterance. He's painted the SFA as Rangers enemy and the Huns love that.

If the SPL come knocking with plans for reconstruction and SPL2 he's got them all exactly where he wants them.

[Northernhibee]

http://bleacherreport.com/articles/1323474-glasgow-rangers-scottish-footballs-century-old-obsession

This is deluded beyond belief.

[PatHead]

He's certainly used the 'victim' approach well so far. There appears to be far less resistance to him now in the Hun support:agree:

Funny when Romanov did it we call him a deluded muppet. Chickie is a hero with DR/Sun

[Hibernian Verse]

http://bleacherreport.com/articles/1323474-glasgow-rangers-scottish-footballs-century-old-obsession

This is deluded beyond belief.

I think that was written by a small child.

[PatHead]

What a load of cack and they wonder why everyone hates them!

"In fact, the Celtic faithful have gone to the extent of making infamously sectarian writer Phil Mac Giolla Bhain (or Phil Gillivan if you are a Government official)’s new book a top seller on Amazon."

If I was him I would be reaching for the phone to call my lawyer

[LeighLoyal]

Sally slavering some serious pish in the The Hun this morning. Apparently it's 'absolutely ridiculous' that Simpleton and his even simpler mates signed up with Sevco 2012 for the 7k a week. The 7k a week was just a wee added on bonus then, eh Sally?



He's also still under the false impression that Div 3 is a punishment. Div 3 is where any new club starts, Sally!



Man is a total erse!

[Onion]

Sally slavering some serious pish in the The Hun this morning. Apparently it's 'absolutely ridiculous' that Simpleton and his even simpler mates signed up with Sevco 2012 for the 7k a week. The 7k a week was just a wee added on bonus then, eh Sally?



He's also still under the false impression that Div 3 is a punishment. Div 3 is where any new club starts, sally!



Arse!


“That’s absolutely ridiculous, to be honest with you.

“And even if it was the case then they’re quite entitled to because in any other profession you’d look after yourself and your family financially."

McCoist contradicting himself as usual, but at least he's being honest :confused:

[Part/Time Supporter]

I think that was written by a small child.

It was. In the comments he says he was born in 1995.

[EdinMike]

It was. In the comments he says he was born in 1995.

I still stand by my credo that you shouldn't be allowed an opinion on Anything, until you are at least 21.

And so I read said article, and also as in my credo I shall now print it and put it next to the toilet for when it is next needed.

[PatHead]

I think we're going to have to accept that The Ranger supporters will see everything that has happened to their club as punishment .
It's difficult to find a single post anywhere where one of them accepts there has been little to zero punishment and all that has happened is a consequence of recent events.

From a position of ambivilance I'm starting to dislike them which is falling into their trap of 'everbody hates us so we are the oppressed' but it is difficult to ignore them when they are publicly paraded at every opportunity. Suppose that isn't their fault but they are being played by the press and the The Rangers management.

I steer clear af calling them sevco as they can rightly say that is not what they are called, emphasisng 'The' pisses them off though, that'll do.

I did ask on this site a week or two ago why Rangers and Celtic were referred to as 'The Old Firm' but didn't get a response, depends on the reason but the mantle may have shifted and we should be referring to another fixture as the Old Firm match, again that would piss them off but couldn't be argued against.

Re the "Old Firm" I am sure I once heard it was coined after a Cup final in which both teams didn't try to score at the end thus ensuring another gate from the replay. (Maybe 1920s) A newspaper reporter referred to them as behaving like 2 sides of an Old Firm and the name stuck

[Seveno]

Re the "Old Firm" I am sure I once heard it was coined after a Cup final in which both teams didn't try to score at the end thus ensuring another gate from the replay. (Maybe 1920s) A newspaper reporter referred to them as behaving like 2 sides of an Old Firm and the name stuck

So basically the name was born out of cheating ? How appropriate.

[PatHead]

So basically the name was born out of cheating ? How appropriate.

Thought that myself.

[Seveno]

Sally slavering some serious pish in the The Hun this morning. Apparently it's 'absolutely ridiculous' that Simpleton and his even simpler mates signed up with Sevco 2012 for the 7k a week. The 7k a week was just a wee added on bonus then, eh Sally?



He's also still under the false impression that Div 3 is a punishment. Div 3 is where any new club starts, Sally!



Man is a total erse!


I would love the BBC to do a 'Who do you think you are ?' programme on him. I'm sure that if they dug back far enough, it would reveal that he is related to Craig Levein.

[StevieC]

I did ask on this site a week or two ago why Rangers and Celtic were referred to as 'The Old Firm' but didn't get a response

Why wait a week? Google is your friend :wink:


Re the "Old Firm" I am sure I once heard it was coined after a Cup final in which both teams didn't try to score at the end thus ensuring another gate from the replay. (Maybe 1920s) A newspaper reporter referred to them as behaving like 2 sides of an Old Firm and the name stuck

My understanding was it was down to the financial gain from the two meeting (on regular occassions), although I suspect the above scenario is more likely to be a myth.

[PatHead]

Why wait a week? Google is your friend :wink:



My understanding was it was down to the financial gain from the two meeting (on regular occassions), although I suspect the above scenario is more likely to be a myth.

Looks like you could be right though I definately read fairly recently the term came from one game.

From Kevin McArra in the Guardian 2009

"In the annals of misconduct by Old Firm fans, however, the most fascinating episode occurred in the replay of the 1909 Scottish Cup, when they were provoked to cause mayhem jointly. Conspiracy theories abounded then because there had been a history of draws between the clubs in the Glasgow Cup, which made sceptics wonder if the results had been rigged to generate more money in replays. The Scottish Cup final of 1909 ended 2-2. There was some discussion as to whether there should be extra-time if required in the next attempt to settle the contest. Some of the public might even have supposed that an agreement had been reached, but the SFA stuck by its policy that there could only be an additional half-hour if the final went to a third game.
The players, too, were in a muddle and lingered on the pitch at full-time following a 1-1 draw in the next encounter. Spectators made a decision of their own when it was apparent that there would be no further football. An attempt by them to break into the pavilion was repelled, but no one could stop the fans from pulling down the posts and crossbars. Souvenir hunters used their penknives to cut themselves pieces of wood as souvenirs.
A bonfire was started in front of the north enclosure, with wooden barriers from the terracing taken down and set alight. Twenty-seven turnstile booths were also ablaze. The fire brigade were foiled as some of the 6,000 rioters pelted them with stones and cut the hoses. The SFA happily accepted the Old Firm request that there should be no further replay."

See there behaviour hasn't really changed judging by Belfast this week.

[jacomo]

Celtc fans have been trying to argue for a while now that there is no such thing as the Old Firm anymore, as they are at a different level to Rangers.

For that reason alone, I think it best to reference the Old Firm at every possible opportunity.

[Suburban Hibby]

http://rangers.co.uk/news/headlines/item/2036-%C2%A31m-crossbar-challenge

One million quid crossbar challenge.....

[adhibs]

£1.50 a text soon adds up, wouldnt be surprised if a few of the new signings are after a go

[silverhibee]

£1.50 a text soon adds up, wouldnt be surprised if a few of the new signings are after a go

:faf:

[edinburghhibee]

Good idea I think will make them a lot of money.... Until someone wins, then they tell them that they are getting 6p to the £1.

[easty]

Good idea I think will make them a lot of money.... Until someone wins, then they tell them that they are getting 6p to the £1.

Aye, or it bankrupts The Rangers and they have to start again The Rangers II. Who will they blame then? The boy that won the million will be outed as a Celtc fan nae doubt.

We should have an even bigger money comp, £2m to the first Hibs fan who can skelp John McGlynns big shiney heid in the away dugout, with a pizza from anywhere in the East Stand.

[CraigHibee]

We should have an even bigger money comp, £2m to the first Hibs fan who can skelp John McGlynns big shiney heid in the away dugout, with a pizza from anywhere in the East Stand.

can i get first shot at uncle fester please? :greengrin

[Gettin' Auld]

Good idea I think will make them a lot of money.... Until someone wins, then they tell them that they are getting 6p to the £1.

Ha Ha Ha :top marks

[cam75]

can i get first shot at uncle fester please? :greengrin

Are you allowed frozen pizza into the ground?

[Seveno]

The prize money will be insured. It's called Prize Indemnity.

They will soon cover the premium with the 'entry fee'.

[Viva_Palmeiras]

Is it just me or do they go out their way to write "Rangers" ?

I mean written by "Rangers Football Club" is that a ghost writer?

[crewetollhibee]

Are you allowed frozen pizza into the ground?

Or can the pizza come wrapped in a big Domino's lorry ?

[LeighLoyal]

Winner gets the floating charge rights after the CVA.

[hibees 7062]

Aye, or it bankrupts The Rangers and they have to start again The Rangers II. Who will they blame then? The boy that won the million will be outed as a Celtc fan nae doubt.

We should have an even bigger money comp, £2m to the first Hibs fan who can skelp John McGlynns big shiney heid in the away dugout, with a pizza from anywhere in the East Stand.

Oot a cannon :yw:

[Onceinawhile]

http://rangers.co.uk/news/headlines/item/2036-%C2%A31m-crossbar-challenge

One million quid crossbar challenge.....

Presumably the rangers will actually pay the winner rather than just leaving it to the SPL?

[s.a.m]

http://news.sky.com/story/981908/exclusive-rangers-plots-stock-market-return

[LeighLoyal]

http://news.sky.com/story/981908/exclusive-rangers-plots-stock-market-return



Tells you Green knows they can't survive three years in purgatory without the hun thicks buying overpriced, worthless stock. More grounds for a gross alienation of assets, also.

[HUTCHYHIBBY]

Re the "Old Firm" I am sure I once heard it was coined after a Cup final in which both teams didn't try to score at the end thus ensuring another gate from the replay. (Maybe 1920s) A newspaper reporter referred to them as behaving like 2 sides of an Old Firm and the name stuck

I remember Hibs being penalised against Celtic in the final of the soccer sixes for not trying to score, I'm sure the ref said it was unsportsmanlike conduct, its always made me chuckle!

[jgl07]

I remember Hibs being penalised against Celtic in the final of the soccer sixes for not trying to score, I'm sure the ref said it was unsportsmanlike conduct, its always made me chuckle!

Aye they were ahead and running down the clock. The referee gave a free kick and Celtic scored.

[PatHead]

THE commission probing Rangers’ alleged undisclosed payments to players will hold procedural hearings next week.
The Scottish Premier League announced that the independent panel would sit for its first two days.
A statement read: “The Scottish Premier League today announced that the independent commission to inquire into alleged EBT payments and arrangements made by Rangers in relation to players during the period from 2000 until 2011 will sit on Tuesday 11 and Wednesday 12 September.
“The hearing will be chaired by Lord Nimmo Smith and will consider submissions from parties on various procedural matters.
“It will not be a hearing of the merits of the case.”
The three-man group, which also features Charles Flint QC and Nicholas Stewart QC, will eventually decide whether Rangers broke SPL rules regarding payments made through their controversial Employee Benefit Trust scheme.
The payments are also the subject of a tax tribunal, which is yet to be decided.
The tax tribunal will have no impact on the current Ibrox regime, which bought the assets and business of the soon-to-be-liquidated club.
But the SPL probe could lead to Rangers being stripped of league titles, although there are more than a dozen other potential sanctions

[Jack Hackett]

THE commission probing Rangers’ alleged undisclosed payments to players will hold procedural hearings next week.
The Scottish Premier League announced that the independent panel would sit for its first two days.
A statement read: “The Scottish Premier League today announced that the independent commission to inquire into alleged EBT payments and arrangements made by Rangers in relation to players during the period from 2000 until 2011 will sit on Tuesday 11 and Wednesday 12 September.
“The hearing will be chaired by Lord Nimmo Smith and will consider submissions from parties on various procedural matters.
“It will not be a hearing of the merits of the case.”
The three-man group, which also features Charles Flint QC and Nicholas Stewart QC, will eventually decide whether Rangers broke SPL rules regarding payments made through their controversial Employee Benefit Trust scheme.
The payments are also the subject of a tax tribunal, which is yet to be decided.
The tax tribunal will have no impact on the current Ibrox regime, which bought the assets and business of the soon-to-be-liquidated club.
But the SPL probe could lead to Rangers being stripped of league titles, although there are more than a dozen other potential sanctions

They need to throw the book at them....Nothing less than a censure and a suspended sentence :rolleyes:

[Spike Mandela]

They need to throw the book at them....Nothing less than a censure and a suspended sentence :rolleyes:

Let us review the punishments doled out so far by the authorities in this country during this shameful episode........

- 10 point penalty (rangers finished 2nd instead of errrr, 2nd in the league)
- £160k fine (not bad for witholding £14m PAYE, more of a business plan than punishmennt really)
- 1 year transfer embargo ( delayed till end of transfer window, rangers spend millions)
- 3 match ban for McCoist ( suspended for 1 year)
- Censure for Green (slap on wrist)


Confident now that SPL will hand out a weakened punishment for EBT's that will ensure Rangers FC have 'got away with it'. The biggest scandal in Scottish football EVER!

[Since90+2]

Let us review the punishments doled out so far by the authorities in this country during this shameful episode........

- 10 point penalty (rangers finished 2nd instead of errrr, 2nd in the league)
- £160k fine (not bad for witholding £14m PAYE, more of a business plan than punishmennt really)
- 1 year transfer embargo ( delayed till end of transfer window, rangers spend millions)
- 3 match ban for McCoist ( suspended for 1 year)
- Censure for Green (slap on wrist)


Confident now that SPL will hand out a weakened punishment for EBT's that will ensure Rangers FC have 'got away with it'. The biggest scandal in Scottish football EVER!

Is it not the three independent QC's / Lord who will decide the punishment and not the SPL? :confused:

[Spike Mandela]

Is it not the three independent QC's / Lord who will decide the punishment and not the SPL? :confused:

It was independent QC's/Lords that issued the transfer embargo, it was SFA that made it ineffective and weak.

Don't hold your breath for any tough sanction ever being implented. Ranges have been punished enough don't ya know! Anyway McCoist won't accept it so, that's that.

[StevieC]

Confident now that SPL will hand out a weakened punishment for EBT's that will ensure Rangers FC have 'got away with it'. The biggest scandal in Scottish football EVER!

I think the biggest issue, if they are found guilty (which is surely a "given"), is the potential cases filed by the teams that missed out on additional prize money and further progression in cup competitions.

I think that this may have been the reason that the SFA/SPL were so intent on The Rangers accepting any punishments from outstanding charges.

If (when) the EBT's are proven to be against the rules, you'll have teams saying "hang on, we missed out on £200k(?) prize money that season, we want it now". If The Rangers had received their SFA membership with no santions then it might be the SFA/SPL that would have had to answer to (refund) potential compensation charges.

[Seveno]

I think the biggest issue, if they are found guilty (which is surely a "given"), is the potential cases filed by the teams that missed out on additional prize money and further progression in cup competitions.

I think that this may have been the reason that the SFA/SPL were so intent on The Rangers accepting any punishments from outstanding charges.

If (when) the EBT's are proven to be against the rules, you'll have teams saying "hang on, we missed out on £200k(?) prize money that season, we want it now". If The Rangers had received their SFA membership with no santions then it might be the SFA/SPL that would have had to answer to (refund) potential compensation charges.

I doubt that any clubs will have the balls to pursue a claim.

[StevieC]

I doubt that any clubs will have the balls to pursue a claim.

Why not? :confused:

Isn't there a Portugese team that has already said they are looking into making a claim?

[Kaiser1962]

Any losing team against Rangers coul equally have been beaten against another team but not had the benefit of the gate money.


They could have but the players concerned would have gotten their win bonus, which they may have been denied by Rangers subterfuge. I am thinking mainly of the teams that lost in semi-finals or finals to Oldhun, where the bonus to players may have been significant, or as Steve says, those that lost in European competition (in the run to the final?) where we may well be talking really big bucks. All it needs is one of these clubs to raise the issue with UEFA.

This could be extended to bookies whose punters bet against Oldhun and lost. Can of worms and lid spring to mind.

[Spike Mandela]

We can hum and haw but no matter the verdict and/or punishment, who arrives at it and when its is arrived at the one thing that is for certain is that newco Rangers will get off lightly in the end.

They have so far and they are laughing at all of us.

[Jack Hackett]

We can hum and haw but no matter the verdict and/or punishment, who arrives at it and when its is arrived at the one thing that is for certain is that newco Rangers will get off lightly in the end.

They have so far and they are laughing at all of us.

Someone pointed out slightly earlier in the thread, that Charley would probably be delighted if the titles were stripped, giving him a massive 'They're all agin us' rallying cry for his hordes. He's a businessman with no allegiance to anything other than profit and couldn't give a tinkers cuss about a few titles being removed.

FWIW I think the titles will be struck from the record...and that will be it...end of. Loads of bile and gnashing of teeth from Mordor, but at the end of the day, they'll still claim they won them on the park, and nobody can take that away from them....not to mention still being the worlds greatest club, with the greatest supporters to boot.

They make me :sick:

[LeighLoyal]

Someone pointed out slightly earlier in the thread, that Charley would probably be delighted if the titles were stripped, giving him a massive 'They're all agin us' rallying cry for his hordes. He's a businessman with no allegiance to anything other than profit and couldn't give a tinkers cuss about a few titles being removed.

FWIW I think the titles will be struck from the record...and that will be it...end of. Loads of bile and gnashing of teeth from Mordor, but at the end of the day, they'll still claim they won them on the park, and nobody can take that away from them....not to mention still being the worlds greatest club, with the greatest supporters to boot.

They make me :sick:




Vile, disgusting institution that brings shame on us all, and Chuckie will have to put up token resistance to placate the horde when the titles are stripped. But I like their "new" anti Scotland stance, the civilised majority in Scotland can get on with supporting the national team and leave the social underclass that supports Sevco 2012 to support... Sevco 2012, in their exciting third division adventure. :aok:

[Dan Sarf]

Coming up on Sky Sports 1 now (12.30ish).

Be interesting to hear his spin! :greengrin

[Alex Trager]

What's he saying?

[Viva_Palmeiras]

The politician or the football manager?

[Deeklipse]

The politician or the football manager?

Ex-football manager

[Dan Sarf]

What's he saying?

He'll punch anyone who comes to collect his medals. His lawyer approved all his deals. And "we did nothing wrong."

So that's alright then.

[Kato]

He'll punch anyone who comes to collect his medals. His lawyer approved all his deals. And "we did nothing wrong."

So that's alright then.

Did he say whether he had repaid his loans from the EBT scheme?

Saying that I doubt he'd be asked such a pertinent question.

Your average journalist doesn't seem to do pertinence on this subject.

[Kaiser1962]

He'll punch anyone who comes to collect his medals. His lawyer approved all his deals. And "we did nothing wrong."

So that's alright then.


He's about to find out, if he dosent already know, that nearly everybody outside Rangers, including HMRC and probably the Court, disagrees.

[StevieC]

He'll punch anyone who comes to collect his medals.

Nobody is going to touch his medals.
They'll soon be worthless though.


His lawyer approved all his deals. And "we did nothing wrong."

He's right.

However, the CLUB did do something wrong, and that is about to be dealt with.

[Purple & Green]

Did he say whether he had repaid his loans from the EBT scheme?

Saying that I doubt he'd be asked such a pertinent question.

Your average journalist doesn't seem to do pertinence on this subject.

I don't understand why not a single person who received money through the ebt has been asked this. Especially the likes of billy dodds who aren't exactly very far from the bbc sportsound team.

[neilmartinrocks]

He'll punch anyone who comes to collect his medals. His lawyer approved all his deals. And "we did nothing wrong."

So that's alright then.

I would like to put my name forward for that job.:greengrin

[Since90+2]

We can hum and haw but no matter the verdict and/or punishment, who arrives at it and when its is arrived at the one thing that is for certain is that newco Rangers will get off lightly in the end.

They have so far and they are laughing at all of us.

IF they are stripped of the titles am I right in thinking Celtic will be awarded the titles and they will become the most successful club in terms of league titles? If so they wont be the ones doing the laughing.

[Brando7]

IF they are stripped of the titles am I right in thinking Celtic will be awarded the titles and they will become the most successful club in terms of league titles? If so they wont be the ones doing the laughing.

Linfield would become the most with League titles at 51 times

[greenginger]

I don't understand why not a single person who received money through the ebt has been asked this. Especially the likes of billy dodds who aren't exactly very far from the bbc sportsound team.

Or make a simple proposition to the EBT beneficiaries like,

" If you are so against Rangers losing their Titles because of this misunderstanding, perhaps if you were to pay the tax ---

[Since90+2]

Linfield would become the most with League titles at 51 times

I meant in Scotland.

Does anyone know if the titles will be passed to Celtic or would the titles Rangers won just be voided off? :confused:

[malcolm]

HMRC update on EBTs (http://www.hmrc.gov.uk/news/ebt-news0812.htm) making it easy to settle

[grunt]

HMRC update on EBTs (http://www.hmrc.gov.uk/news/ebt-news0812.htm) making it easy to settleI think it has rather got past that stage...

[Kaiser1962]

HMRC update on EBTs (http://www.hmrc.gov.uk/news/ebt-news0812.htm) making it easy to settle

Could this mean that those that received payments from Rangers EBT are individually liable for Income tax and NIC's? Unless Minty fizzes up and says that tax was already deducted and that he (Murray, Rangers, Rangers director's) are actually guilty of sharking the tax raised?

Either scenario should be good for a chuckle or two.

[bighairyfaeleith]

HMRC update on EBTs (http://www.hmrc.gov.uk/news/ebt-news0812.htm) making it easy to settle

You have to admit fault to settle.

Wonder if hearts will settle

[erin go bragh]

Would take Mcleish in a heart beat to replace Harry Potter :cb



ggtth

[Kaiser1962]

Or make a simple proposition to the EBT beneficiaries like,

" If you are so against Rangers losing their Titles because of this misunderstanding, perhaps if you were to pay the tax ---


Semms like something an honourable person would offer to do............

[Caversham Green]

We can hum and haw but no matter the verdict and/or punishment, who arrives at it and when its is arrived at the one thing that is for certain is that newco Rangers will get off lightly in the end.

They have so far and they are laughing at all of us.

It's a bit of a curate's egg for me Spike. I reckon Rangers/Sevco in the bottom tier is a reasonable outcome - I'm not sure how much more we could realistically expect, and if we can call it 'lower league obscurity' by the end of this season so much the better. If those connected with Rangers had any morals, sense or intelligence they would also be humiliated, but that's probably too much to hope for. They're only laughing because they're thick.

On the other hand, the way we've got to this position is depressing. The behaviour of pretty much everyone connected with Rangers/Sevco has been disgusting and the actions of the football authorities has generally been a disgrace to the game. The MSM has shown just how much in thrall to the OF and therefore ineffectual they are, but at least the blog medium and fan power have had a real and lasting effect.

And the fans of opposing clubs have a new big stick to beat the bigots with for the next century or so. We must use it at every opportunity.

[greenginger]

You have to admit fault to settle.

Wonder if hearts will settle



Stripping of Titles Part 2 ? Bring it on !:greengrin

[Winston Ingram]

http://www.amazon.co.uk/product-reviews/1904684262/ref=dp_top_cm_cr_acr_txt?ie=UTF8&colid=2QN8Q9F5GR1QE&coliid=I1NKBQNFB5AJ00&showViewpoints=1

Phil Mac Giolla Bhain's book was only released on Saturday but the Hun masses are currently caning it on Amazon.

Not surprising down to their 'We are the Victims' mentality but what's probably more surprising is how people have had the chance to get it delivered and then read the whole thing since it's launch on Saturday.

Clearly a thread floating about on Follow Follow telling everyone to go and attack it
:agree:

[Hibercelona]

He's a sectarian pro-IRA bigot don't you know?


Amazon comments never lie! :deal:

[Pretty Boy]

How bad is the spelling in some of those reviews?

If anyone should know how to spell 'biggot' its surely a Rangers supporter

Might give the book a read though, even if it is written by a man who 'revealed himself as an IRA supporting biggot'.

[neilmartinrocks]

http://www.amazon.co.uk/product-reviews/1904684262/ref=dp_top_cm_cr_acr_txt?ie=UTF8&colid=2QN8Q9F5GR1QE&coliid=I1NKBQNFB5AJ00&showViewpoints=1

Phil Mac Giolla Bhain's book was only released on Saturday but the Hun masses are currently caning it on Amazon.

Not surprising down to their 'We are the Victims' mentality but what's probably more surprising is how people have had the chance to get it delivered and then read the whole thing since it's launch on Saturday.

Clearly a thread floating about on Follow Follow telling everyone to go and attack it
:agree:

I told my mate I was reading it the other night and asked if he wanted to borrow it when I was done.
You want to have seen his puss, rember the purple away top? Same colour. He's never read it but "it's Fenian *****" "not a word of truth" and my favourite "should be banned because it's sectarian":greengrin

[Winston Ingram]

How bad is the spelling in some of those reviews?

If anyone should know how to spell 'biggot' its surely a Rangers supporter

Might give the book a read though, even if it is written by a man who 'revealed himself as an IRA supporting biggot'.

I was concerned about the author but because Alex Thompson has given it his endorsement that'll do for me:agree:

[Hibs Class]

"even the Scottish Sun have called him a biggot and banned his book"

You couldn't make it up.

[LeighLoyal]

How bad is the spelling in some of those reviews?

If anyone should know how to spell 'biggot' its surely a Rangers supporter

Might give the book a read though, even if it is written by a man who 'revealed himself as an IRA supporting biggot'.



Most of them are lucky if the can spell their own names. Average Orc IQ must be 70-80 max. A result of inbreeding in their hun towns I would guess. They shame Scotland on so many levels.

[Hibercelona]

"even the Scottish Sun have called him a biggot and banned his book"

You couldn't make it up.

However, the Sun probably could....

[Peevemor]

By

Alex Tomo No 1 Fan (http://www.amazon.co.uk/gp/pdp/profile/AUIMIWJB8G09H/ref=cm_cr_rdp_pdp)




This review is from: Downfall: How Rangers FC Self Destructed (Paperback)

As a Celtc man, through and through I have had hunners of sleepless nights wae a bottle waiting on this book on Rangers Football Club (Sevco) coming out.

The story of Rangers FC (Sevco) for me and probably all Celtc fans has taken over our lives even more than usual the past 12 months. I know guys who chucked their jobs incase they missed anything

It has been our obsession, but a healthy one. Its good to keep the brain active and that.

Alex Thomson of Channel 4 who is a real hero of mines after his reporting of bloody sunday and even more after he tweeted a pure funny image of Ibrox disaster memorial rites a pure amazing foreword to book. Here we go a tell the wife, 1-0 to the hoops!

The family all took a turn in the reading the book, staying up with a bottle reading it aloud. There are hunners of us so i only had to read a wee bit once. Minted, 2-0 to the hoops!

Phil and Alex - yous are forever the heroes of the Celtc support. There should be statues of yous together at Celtc park. We'll soon have anough statues to do a big huddle roon paradise.

It was the first book I've ever read and it touched me and the rest of the family in ways you couldn't imagine.

A've cut out the book cover and stuck it on top of the picture in the hallway of Newco Jesus so next time the polis kick the door it will be first thing they see. Haha, yer no laughing noo masons!. Boom 3-0 tae ra hoops!

TAL

Hail Hail

Pray for Lenny

Jinky was Innocent

PS. Entered my first star - do i get a free book when I get to five?

:tee hee:

[Seveno]

Stripping of Titles Part 2 ? Bring it on !:greengrin


And the 2012 Scottish Cup is awarded to ................................... :greengrin

[TheEastTerrace]

Well, the comments on Amazon sure make for interesting reading.

FWIW, from the very beginning and throughout the course of the Rangers saga, the author was regularly on the money with his reporting of what was and what would happen to RFC, so in some ways, his creditibility has already been established before this book was published. He had sources very close to the situation at Ibrox and I'm sure the book would stand up to scrutiny in terms of reporting the facts.

As for the obsession with Rangers and him being a sectarian bigot, I don't know. All I know is that when I read all the skullduggery designed to undermine or discredit antagonists of the two OF clubs online, it makes me glad I wasn't born and raised in Glasgow as a Rangers or Celtic fan.

[Hibiza]

made their own downfall. over many decades. mostly on hate , bile and self glorification.

[grunt]

Keith Downie‏@STVkeith Rangers say they won't cooperate with the SPL investigation into alleaged use of dual contracts, becuase they are no longer an SPL member.

[grunt]

Here's their full statement:


CHARLES GREEN, Chief Executive of Rangers, issued the following statement today:
“The Rangers Football Club Limited will not attend tomorrow’s hearing (Tuesday, September 11) of the SPL-appointed Commission investigating the circumstances surrounding the use of Employee Benefit Trusts by previous owners of the Club.
"The Club cannot continue to participate in an SPL process that we believe is fundamentally misconceived.
“Neither the SPL, nor its Commission, has any legal power or authority over the Club because it is not in the SPL.
"For that reason it has no legal basis on which to appoint its Commission. The Club ceased to be subject to the SPL’s rules when it was ejected from its league.
"Our lawyers have made that point repeatedly to the SPL in correspondence and yet our requests for an explanation from the SPL have been completely ignored. The SPL’s silence on these issues is deafening. The outcome of the SPL’s process will have no legal effect.
“First and foremost, I would like to explain this decision to our supporters across the world whose loyalty and commitment to the Club in very difficult times has been unwavering and heart-warming for all those involved at the Club. Our decision regarding this commission is approved unanimously by the Board and the Manager Ally McCoist.
“Since the decision was taken by HMRC on June 14 to reject administrators’ proposals for a Company Voluntary Arrangement, the fate of Rangers FC lay firmly and clearly in the ability of the consortium I led to form a new company and corporate entity that would ensure that Rangers had a future as a football club.
“At all times we were fully transparent in our dealings with the football authorities, be they the SFA, SPL or the SFL.
"There was no ambiguity whatsoever regarding the status of the company when it made an application to join the SPL.
"As we all know, 10 SPL clubs decided against the admission of the new company to the league and The Rangers Football Club Limited subsequently applied to the SFL for membership and we are grateful for their acceptance.
“In short, what was decided by the SPL membership is that Rangers was finished as a member of the SPL.
"Despite this, the SPL now see the new owners of the company, and the new company itself, which owns all the assets of Rangers FC - including SPL championship titles – as fair game for punishment for matters that have nothing to do with us at all.
"And let’s be very clear about what this Commission is. Although the SPL goes to great lengths to emphasise the independence of its Commission, the Commission is not independent of the SPL. It has been appointed by the SPL. It follows SPL rules and its process is managed by SPL staff.
"I don’t question the impartiality of the individual panel members but whatever decision they reach is a decision of the SPL.
“To make it crystal clear, the new owners purchased all the business and assets of Rangers, including titles and trophies.
"Any attempt to undermine or diminish the value of those assets will be met with the stiffest resistance, including legal recourse.
“Furthermore, we ask the question genuinely. Why did the football authorities do nothing to address an issue that was public knowledge for at least two years, and was reported in the Club’s accounts for several years, before the Club went into administration and was subsequently taken over by new owners?
"HMRC contacted the SPL regarding EBT matters in October 2010, they met to discuss what documentation the Club had lodged with the SPL.
"Did the SPL launch an investigation? Did they appoint a Commission? Did they ask to see EBT correspondence? Did they ask any questions at all? No. They did absolutely nothing.
“What compounds the breathtaking hypocrisy of the SPL in this whole saga, is that the SFA, the SPL and us - as the new owners - took part in numerous discussions regarding the new company’s league status during which it was made clear that a deal was there to be done where ‘the EBT issue’ would be dealt with as part of a package of sanctions which would be implemented in return for membership of the SFA and a place in either the SPL or Division One.
"We do not accept that people who are willing to come to an agreement on such matters then have a right to instigate a full blown inquisition when matters do not unfold as they thought they would.
“In our view, it beggars belief that an authority which can be heavily involved in these discussions to the point that the Chief Executive Neil Doncaster repeatedly stated he was not interested in stripping titles from Rangers can lurch from that position to setting up its own Commission under the chairmanship of Lord Nimmo Smith.
"I must make it clear that we are not questioning for a moment the integrity of Lord Nimmo Smith and his colleagues but we believe the SPL have been hypocritical in their approach to this matter.
"Quite apart from their negotiations with our consortium, I know the SPL were well advanced in their discussions with another bidder and his representatives where EBT issues were raised and there was again an understanding that the EBT issue could be dealt with by agreement if new owners were to take over at Ibrox.
“Why is the SPL rushing to judgement now when it has been sitting on the matter for two years? Their haste is particularly difficult to understand when the tax tribunal judgement is imminent.
"The factual issues in both cases are identical. We have to ask why is the SPL so anxious to issue a judgement in this matter before the tax tribunal’s findings are made public.
"The position is even harder to understand when one of the reasons the SFA did not pursue any form of disciplinary charge on EBT matters following Lord Nimmo Smith’s April report was because it was felt unwise for the SFA to pursue the matter when the tax tribunal judgement had not been made public.
"Nothing has changed as the judgement still has not been made public. Why is the SPL rushing ahead when in April the SFA felt it unwise to do so?
“Rangers was not the only club in Scotland to use EBTs yet nothing was done and little has been heard about it. Also, Rangers stands accused of achieving sporting advantage unfairly – yet there is little debate over the fact in all the years EBTs were in existence at Ibrox, the Club often failed to win either the league title, or the main cup competitions.
"Furthermore, the period concerned saw a significant downsizing of the playing squad both in money spent on transfers and players wages.
“The decision we have taken has not been taken lightly. There are powerful representatives from Clubs within the SPL – not all of them by any means – who appear hell bent on inflicting as much damage on Rangers as possible.
"It is lamentable that the Board and executive of the organisation have not been able to deal with this appropriately. We do not hold every SPL club in the same regard. Several clubs were placed in an invidious position and we believe their interests were not best served by those in more powerful positions.
“Furthermore, as a Club we are not satisfied that the issue of conflict of interest relating to advisers to the SPL has been satisfactorily dealt with.
“Once again I would thank our supporters for their patience and tolerance. They have been asked to take it on the chin time and again and we stand united in saying: No more.
"As far as I am concerned, Rangers Football Club has won a world record 54 league titles, and, whatever the decision of the SPL Commission, these titles cannot and will not be taken away from us and our Manager Ally McCoist is in total agreement.”

[grunt]

"Aye, fight and you may die. Run, and you'll live... at least a while. And dying in your beds, many years from now, would you be willin' to trade ALL the days, from this day to that, for one chance, just one chance, to come back here and tell our enemies that they may take our lives, but they'll never take... OUR TITLES!"

[greenginger]

Just wait until they climb back into an SPL promotion position then tell them they ain't getting promotion for refusing to co-operate.

Simples !

[LeighLoyal]

Who are this "Rangers Football Club" he keeps referring to? Is that the one that liquidated in the summer? :confused:




And Sally says: you's ur aw biggoted agaanst us...

[CropleyWasGod]

Who are this "Rangers Football Club" he keeps referring to? Is that the one that liquidated in the summer? :confused:

Probably this one. http://wck2.companieshouse.gov.uk/fd418f8175332f76eed3c6c6b8060795/compdetails

[Since90+2]

Probably this one. http://wck2.companieshouse.gov.uk/fd418f8175332f76eed3c6c6b8060795/compdetails

Says "The Rangers" as opposed to "Rangers Football Club" :confused:

[Sergio sledge]

Here's their full statement:

The arrogance and bitterness just oozes from every line. I found this funny though:


Despite this, the SPL now see the new owners of the company, and the new company itself, which owns all the assets of Rangers FC - including SPL championship titles – as fair game for punishment for matters that have nothing to do with us at all.....To make it crystal clear, the new owners purchased all the business and assets of Rangers, including titles and trophies. Any attempt to undermine or diminish the value of those assets will be met with the stiffest resistance, including legal recourse.

Didn't they buy the history etc. in the form of "Goodwill" for 1p? can hardly be diminished much more.


Rangers was not the only club in Scotland to use EBTs yet nothing was done and little has been heard about it. Also, Rangers stands accused of achieving sporting advantage unfairly – yet there is little debate over the fact in all the years EBTs were in existence at Ibrox, the Club often failed to win either the league title, or the main cup competitions.

So because the old co were crap at cheating and didn't manage to win in a two horse race every season it is unfair to take action against the cheating? :faf:

[LeighLoyal]

Probably this one. http://wck2.companieshouse.gov.uk/fd418f8175332f76eed3c6c6b8060795/compdetails



:fenlon

[Dashing Bob S]

Just read Green's statement on BBC website and he's entirely correct. It is absolutely nothing to do with them, they are a new club, not in the SPL, and shouldn't be called. The only people who should be invited to give evidence to the inquiry are individuals (like McCoist) who were associated with old Rangers. They should be asked to do so.

If the SFA decide to strip Rangers titles during the ETB era, this is nothing to do with the new The Rangers FC.

[grunt]

There are powerful representatives from Clubs within the SPL – not all of them by any means – who appear hell bent on inflicting as much damage on Rangers as possible.

Do they mean us?

[CropleyWasGod]

Says "The Rangers" as opposed to "Rangers Football Club" :confused:

It says The Rangers Football Club.

In much the same way as the previous company was called The Rangers Football Club plc until it changed its name.....http://wck2.companieshouse.gov.uk/debb7098ada8e6c208d8b7f8ea293fb6/compdetails..... but of course was known as "Rangers", the operating name of this company is also "Rangers".

[Billychaotic182]

Deek hinting on twitter that sevco were after him

[greenginger]

Just read Green's statement on BBC website and he's entirely correct. It is absolutely nothing to do with them, they are a new club, not in the SPL, and shouldn't be called. The only people who should be invited to give evidence to the inquiry are individuals (like McCoist) who were associated with old Rangers. They should be asked to do so.

If the SFA decide to strip Rangers titles during the ETB era, this is nothing to do with the new The Rangers FC.


But Green states quite clearly that the New Rangers have bought the titles from Old Co. It should have been obvious to Green that the purchase of Rangers goodwill and titles was a risky business and that purchasing merchandise obtained by fraud was always likely to end in confiscation of such items.

He should have adjusted the 1 penny purchase price he paid accordingly. :greengrin

[matty_f]

Just wait until they climb back into an SPL promotion position then tell them they ain't getting promotion for refusing to co-operate.

Simples !

That's the one. :agree:

Pretty easy for the SPL to get what they want with this one, either co-operate or consider yourselves unable to ever participate in the SPL.

[Onion]

Just read Green's statement on BBC website and he's entirely correct. It is absolutely nothing to do with them, they are a new club, not in the SPL, and shouldn't be called. The only people who should be invited to give evidence to the inquiry are individuals (like McCoist) who were associated with old Rangers. They should be asked to do so.

If the SFA decide to strip Rangers titles during the ETB era, this is nothing to do with the new The Rangers FC.

Yet, Green bought the Rangers "Brand" and name so has a clear interest in anything that can impact that name and brand. He also says " As far as I am concerned, Rangers Football Club has won a world record 54 league titles, and, whatever the decision of the SPL Commission, these titles cannot and will not be taken away from us and our Manager Ally McCoist is in total agreement.”

So, he chooses not to defend the position but has a clear interest and view on the outcome !! Me thinks he knows what the outcome is going to be and is in denial (hear & see no evil).

[Sir David Gray]

Charles Green and everyone else connected with Sevco 5088 need to make their minds up here.

They're either a brand new club, completely distinct from Rangers FC, or they are simply a continuation of the old company.

If it's the former then I agree with Green, the SPL have nothing over Sevco 5088 and like DBS said, they should be going after individuals associated with the old Rangers and not Sevco 5088 themselves.

However, by the same token, then Sevco 5088 cannot claim to have won 50 odd titles and should not have the same badge as Rangers FC either.

If it's the latter, which most people associated with Sevco 5088 seem to be claiming to be the case, when it suits them anyway, then the SPL have every right to pursue Sevco 5088 and to hold them responsible for the alleged wrongs of the club before liquidation took place.

They cannot pick and choose between the pros and cons of being a continuation on the old company.

They're either the same or they're not.

[Spike Mandela]

They really are a despicable club lacking in any humility or morality whatsoever. I see more veiled hints of legal recourse should the decision go against them again which The SFA backed out of acting on when they did it previously.

As I have mentioned before, this cheating institution will take every avenue it sees fit to rip the pure pish out of every single one of us and the fabric of the game in this country is compromised yet again.

[Seveno]

Just when you thought it was impossible to hate them even more.

[Gettin' Auld]

Keith Downie‏@STVkeith Rangers say they won't cooperate with the SPL investigation into alleaged use of dual contracts, becuase they are no longer an SPL member.

Judging by that, the guy is barely literate!!

[Hibrandenburg]

That's the one. :agree:

Pretty easy for the SPL to get what they want with this one, either co-operate or consider yourselves unable to ever participate in the SPL.

Do you really think that's what the SPL want? If they get their way then there'll be SPL football being played at I'mbroke next season.

[Baldy Foghorn]

Just when you thought it was impossible to hate them even more.

I hate Derhun with a passion, they should have had the book thrown at them from Day 1.......Unfortunately the SFA showed that they have no backbone, although our esteemed Chairman thought the SFA were doing their best for our game :rolleyes:

[ancient hibee]

Having picked up Rangers for nothing Green is now running rings around the Scottish football establishment -wonder if he plays midfield?

[Baldy Foghorn]

Having picked up Rangers for nothing Green is now running rings around the Scottish football establishment -wonder if he plays midfield?

He is indeed, whilst pandering to the hoardes of bigots, who probably idolise his every move.....

[blindsummit]

It says The Rangers Football Club.

In much the same way as the previous company was called The Rangers Football Club plc until it changed its name.....http://wck2.companieshouse.gov.uk/debb7098ada8e6c208d8b7f8ea293fb6/compdetails..... but of course was known as "Rangers", the operating name of this company is also "Rangers".

My head is begining to hurt again :greengrin

[LeighLoyal]

Jabba on Radio Scotland: "Green has a point... Rangers won those trophies, Sevco been punished enough, more would be bad for Scottish football, time to move on..."



Is there a more nauseating slob in all of Scotland than this pastry lover? We should just ignore a decade of CHEATING via ineligible players on dual contracts because it would be ' bad for the game'. Surely it's time this pathetic excuse for a journalist was removed from the public airwaves? He is an embarrassment.

[Biggie]

Looks like we've all been done up the arse...

[s.a.m]

James Doleman‏@jamesdoleman RT @Timmj95 (http://www.hibs.net/Timmj95): Debt? We're Newco. Titles? We're Oldco. Punishment? We're Newco. History? We're Oldco. EBTs? Newco. SFA Licence? Oldco"

[Baldy Foghorn]

Jabba on Radio Scotland: "Green has a point... Rangers won those trophies, Sevco been punished enough, more would be bad for Scottish football, time to move on..."



Is there a more nauseating slob in all of Scotland than this pastry lover? We should just ignore a decade of CHEATING via ineligible players on dual contracts because it would be ' bad for the game'. Surely it's time this pathetic excuse for a journalist was removed from the public airwaves? He is an embarrassment.

Who is Jabba?

[jgl07]

Who is Jabba?

James Traynor at a guess?

[Sir David Gray]

Who is Jabba?

Him (http://www.google.co.uk/imgres?imgurl=http://images1.wikia.nocookie.net/__cb20080409144513/starwars/images/e/e5/Jabba_Boonta_Eve.jpg&imgrefurl=http://starwars.wikia.com/wiki/Jabba_Desilijic_Tiure&h=430&w=640&sz=54&tbnid=0Go72bMSdLAtEM:&tbnh=90&tbnw=134&prev=/search%3Fq%3Djabba%26tbm%3Disch%26tbo%3Du&zoom=1&q=jabba&usg=__n_6uKYzYMfeZ5vVIQMxt8QJvAeo=&docid=TKx6mHD8wp-FVM&hl=en-GB&sa=X&ei=Kj1OULSgJ4Ts0gWmiIDoDA&ved=0CDwQ9QEwAw&dur=1532)

:dunno:

[Baldy Foghorn]

James Traynor at a guess?

Numpty, that would figure.....The only one who sounds semi decent is Tom English.....

[Billy Whizz]

James Doleman‏@jamesdoleman RT @Timmj95 (http://www.hibs.net/Timmj95): Debt? We're Newco. Titles? We're Oldco. Punishment? We're Newco. History? We're Oldco. EBTs? Newco. SFA Licence? Oldco"

It's ok for them to say that.
If they weren't "Oldco" they wouldn't have been in the SFL 3rd division.
Their "Newco" would have been on the Junior ranks if they were lucky

[LeighLoyal]

Good post on Twitter! :thumbsup:

[Just Alf]

Keith Downie‏@STVkeith Rangers say they won't cooperate with the SPL investigation into alleaged use of dual contracts, becuase they are no longer an SPL member.

Hopefully that means they've now decided they don't want into the SPL at any point in the future!

[Eyrie]

"Neither the SPL, nor its commission, has any legal power or authority over the club because it is not in the SPL. For that reason, it has no legal basis on which to appoint its commission."
The point at issue here is the actions of a member club during its time of membership. During that membership the club would be bound by the rules and that is why the SPL can investigate what happened.


"To make it crystal clear, the new owners purchased all the business and assets of Rangers, including titles and trophies," he said.
Sevco Huns bought the titles from Huns RIP (who originally bought them with taxpayers' money).


"Any attempt to undermine or diminish the value of those assets will be met with the stiffest resistance, including legal recourse."
So if the titles are stripped Sevco Huns will ask for their money back, but I'd think caveat emptor applies since they were aware of the likely investigation into the EBTs and the range of sanctions available.

The rules of the SPL are there for its members to obey during their membership and those rules cover undeclared second contracts together with the punishments for fielding ineligible players. I'm more concerned about the SPL trying to weasel out of those rules than I am about Green pandering to the loyal Hun follow-followers.

[LeighLoyal]

I note Chuckle uses the word 'new' nine times in this release. He also admitted, here, that liquidation meant the history died http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0k0IkDTPQWU&feature=player_embedded He knows that when public listed company Rangers FC (SC004276), incorporated on 27 may 1899, is officially liquidated all of its corporate business history goes with it and comes to an end, you cannot buy corporate history! This leads me onto the biggest scandal of this shameful affair: why was no vote taken on the transfer of SFA registration and why was there no vote on another club with viable accounts gaining entry? We have seen Huns in blazers control this whole fiasco.

[Cropley10]

Debt? We're Newco. Titles? We're Oldco. Punishment? We're Newco. History? We're Oldco. EBTs? Newco. SFA Licence? Oldco.

I love the fact Green said he bought the titles.

[Phil MaGlass]

Just when ah thought ah couldnae hate these ****ers anymore Green pops up with his pish.
Its really quite simple, they think they can ***** all over the SFA and the SPL. When it comes to them eventually being promoted to the SPL just say "no", WE DONT ****ING NEED YOU AND YIR BIGOT BAGGAGE" then watch their so called Loyal fans disappear like water aff a ducks back, *****.

[PatHead]

Debt? We're Newco. Titles? We're Oldco. Punishment? We're Newco. History? We're Oldco. EBTs? Newco. SFA Licence? Oldco.

I love the fact Green said he bought the titles.

Its the way Rangers have always done it. (Oldco)

[Keith_M]

I'm sorry for now asking this a third time, considering it was about six weeks since the first, but how much longer is it till the OldCo are finally Liquidated?

This waiting on BDO to take over and bury the body seems to have been going on for ever.

[greenginger]

Debt? We're Newco. Titles? We're Oldco. Punishment? We're Newco. History? We're Oldco. EBTs? Newco. SFA Licence? Oldco.

I love the fact Green said he bought the titles.


If Clyde F C had out-bid Sevco for the titles would anyone consider that Clyde F C were the proud holders of 50 odd league titles ?

Course not, and it is the same situation with the NewCo Rangers, they were not won by that club. They were not even called Rangers when the titles were bought, they were still called Sevco so they are not even second hand titles they are third hand, never mind Red Hand. :wink:

[LeighLoyal]

If Clyde F C had out-bid Sevco for the titles would anyone consider that Clyde F C were the proud holders of 50 odd league titles ?

Course not, and it is the same situation with the NewCo Rangers, they were not won by that club. They were not even called Rangers when the titles were bought, they were still called Sevco so they are not even second hand titles they are third hand, never mind Red Hand. :wink:




:aok: You can't buy corporate history from a (soon to be) liquidated entity.

[Moulin Yarns]

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-19556780

I nearly crashed the car listening to this this morning!!!!

[jgl07]

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-19556780

I nearly crashed the car listening to this this morning!!!!

Well if they think that let them stay in the SFL until they decide to co-operate.

[CropleyWasGod]

I'm sorry for now asking this a third time, considering it was about six weeks since the first, but how much longer is it till the OldCo are finally Liquidated?

This waiting on BDO to take over and bury the body seems to have been going on for ever.

I'm probably saying it for the third time, too, but it's those pesky shredding machines at D and P.... they just aren't up to the job. :wink:

On a pedantic note, BDO taking over doesn't mean that they are liquidated, it just means that they are "in liquidation". That process could take years (I think the Airdrie one took 5 years or more), depending on what transpires and, of course, available funds.

[PatHead]

I'm probably saying it for the third time, too, but it's those pesky shredding machines at D and P.... they just aren't up to the job. :wink:

On a pedantic note, BDO taking over doesn't mean that they are liquidated, it just means that they are "in liquidation". That process could take years (I think the Airdrie one took 5 years or more), depending on what transpires and, of course, available funds.

Will D & P still be charging for this or will it come out their bill?

[CropleyWasGod]

Will D & P still be charging for this or will it come out their bill?

I suspect they will come to an arrangement with BDO. All fees are subject to the approval of creditors. HMRC, being the largest creditor, will probably play hard-ball on that. After all, the less that D & P are paid, the more there is for BDO to play with.

[Spike Mandela]

Green is considering legal action if 'their' titles are stripped.

It's a bit like buying a stolen car and then claiming ownership over the burgled owner because you bought it.

How will the SPL react to the threat of legal action, would UEFA take a dim view of this, are the cheating hordes actually going to get away with the biggest scandal in Scottish football, EVER.

I actually think they will as the media are trying to portray the football community in Scotland suffering from 'punishment fatigue' and that 'Rangers have suffered enough'.

Hopefully there is a strength of will from supporters to see justice done on this matter as it wouldn't take a lot for Doncaster and Regan to take a giant brush and sweep it under the carpet.

[Kaiser1962]

Green is considering legal action if 'their' titles are stripped.

The key word there is "considering". Once he has considered this for at least two minutes he will realise that Rangers (not The Rangers) were members of the SPL and ignored the rules of the SFA, Uefa and FIFA as well as probably breaking the law to boot. I think if they lose the honours won they are getting off bloody lightly.

[LeighLoyal]

The key word there is "considering". Once he has considered this for at least two minutes he will realise that Rangers (not The Rangers) were members of the SPL and ignored the rules of the SFA, Uefa and FIFA as well as probably breaking the law to boot. I think if they lose the honours won they are getting off bloody lightly.



As they have throughout this whole process. But we all know Green's rambling mess of a statement, in complete contravention to the disciplinary he's just received for his last outburst, is just sabre rattling for the horde in advance of a worthless Sevco share issue. "Huns, buy my Sevco shares... T'Rangers 2012 to you. ...." Sevco already agreed to accept oldco punishement as part of the shameful transfer of oldco SFA registration so Green is already way off base with any legal challenges. But he has to get the horde behind the share issue. Noise them up, get the hun media tub thumpers like Traynor stirring the pot. He's played the huns like a dream so far actually.


ps
I hear Ben Johnson wants back his 100m gold from Seoul 1988, he won it on the track afterall. Who are these people? Get their names!

[TheEastTerrace]

Anyone fancy dissecting Alastair Johnston's statement made via RST? I started reading but stopped when I realised that they will never accept accountability no matter what. Loathsome club no matter its constitution then and now

[grunt]

From RST


The Rangers Supporters Trust has been in correspondence with former Rangers Chairman Alistair Johnston and he has kindly agreed that we publish a synopsis of his thoughts on a variety of salient points in order that fans can have a better appreciation of the facts.

Let me explain my personal motivation here. If in any way I can spread my sentiments, which are based on a combination of knowledge of the facts, interpretation of events, and a philosophical understanding of culpability as it relates to punishment, that in some way would cause the Tribunal that is sitting to determine the destiny of Rangers heritage to pause for thought and provide more objective consideration of the case before them, then my agenda will be to a greater extent served. I just can’t sit by on the side-lines and watch a miscarriage of justice be activated by a kangaroo court. It is not my personal objective to denigrate the football institutions of Scotland, but their actions and words go a long way to influencing public opinion as to the interpretation of the events that have taken place and how members of the public frame their own opinions as a result.

The whole process has been established to satisfy a self-serving agenda by vested interests in the SPL. The SFA, however, is the supreme governing body of Scottish football and should invoke its ultimate authority to forestall the inevitable inequity that will ensue if the capital punishment decision is left to the SPL.

The SFA is complicit in all of this because they have not at least up until now had the courage to publicly acknowledge that they either ignored or did not really understand the well-publicized structure surrounding the relationship that Rangers FC had with certain of its players.

I have been reviewing my files from around April 2011 relating to the annual routine of Rangers FC applying for and being granted a license to participate in organized football in Scotland. Because of the publicity surrounding our club at the time, the SFA wrote to us asking for more details about the public speculation concerning our financial and tax situation. The latter obviously referenced the impact of the EBT schemes as creating a potential taxation liability. The club responded accordingly and provided details, as it had done in previous years, by declaring player salaries, bonuses, benefits, etc., but also payments made to a Remuneration Trust. The SFA compliance officers must have known, both from the description and context of the reports, that such expenditures had some connection to player compensation. However, without any further investigation at the time, Rangers FC received its SFA license to compete in the 2011/2012 season. Rangers, therefore, were entitled to believe that they were not in breach of any SFA regulation requiring reporting of player compensation. If there was any question that the essence of these payments to a Remuneration Trust could have endangered the proud historical record of our team, then why was it not raised long before then.

At best, the SFA is relying on inconsistent interpretation of its own rules, and to do this retrospectively is totally at odds with underlying principles of equity in the law. A lawyer representing Celtic recently was successful in having charges against that club dropped because of the inadequacy of the SFA's prescribed rules, regulations, and sanctions. The same principle should apply here. If the SFA now decide to adopt a more focused evaluation of the data they request from its members in order to be granted a license, they should ensure that the legislation upon which they rely for enforcement and the corresponding sanctions are more transparent and predictable.

Let me also address the prevailing mood in certain quarters that seems determined to pile on to Rangers when they are vulnerable as confusion over the current structure and authority has allowed allegations and conjecture to trump reality as the institution of the club seems now to be a pawn where rhetoric, no matter how real or substantiated, prevails. Inflammatory and emotional words have been used and recited to justify this rush to judgment which I believe are fundamentally ill founded and out of proportion to the realities of the events that transpired.

First, when the previous football commission reported on EBT’s in a very high profile statement, they took the view that if Rangers was indeed guilty of structuring EBT schemes that transgressed the law or the rules of the relevant federations, then this was “close to match fixing.” This is the headline that in my opinion prompted the determination to slay Rangers with capital punishment, which in the case of our club would retrospectively alter the records of our historical achievements of which we are all so proud. “Match fixing” has connotations that correctly relate to bribery and corruption involving players and referees, fielding players that did not meet the criteria and qualifications of the governing bodies, e.g. they were over the age limit, or they were registered to another club, or they were playing while they had been banned for previous misdemeanours, etc., etc. Rangers has never been accused of or been remotely involved in any activity that would justify the terminology that whatever transgressions they might be found guilty of perpetrating was close to “match fixing.”

Secondly, and this is really important to the extent that it is a phrase that is prominent in the rhetoric of those whose objective is to crucify Rangers, and that is “financial doping.” The term as I interpret it is an attempt to relate an activity that is outlawed generally throughout the world of sport and regarded as cheating and taking undue advantage of banned stimulants and conjure up a connection with the financial mechanics of a club that has acknowledged that it in the clear light of day and very transparently embraced the use of Remuneration Trusts. Our opponents maintain, illogically, that without the use of EBT’s Rangers would have been unable to afford the quality of players that they fielded and thus gained an advantage over other clubs against which they competed. As an aside, it is interesting to recognize that there has been no complaints about Rangers fielding such players in the Champions League, the Europa League, etc., but the current accusations are being promoted not coincidentally by other members of the SPL who are now attempting to act as judge, jury and executioner against their consistently most potent rival.

The reality of the situation is that Sir David Murray, who was intimately involved in the architecture of these efforts to organize the business in a way to mitigate taxation which is totally legitimate and acceptable under all tenets of the law, would have signed and paid for these very same players whether or not EBT schemes were in effect or not. The only difference being one which only has a financial consequence, i.e. it would have increased Rangers reliance on bank debt. During most of the period under investigation by the upcoming SPL Tribunal, he as well as his company enjoyed a very mutually productive relationship with the Bank of Scotland. The Rangers Board, of which I was a member, consistently believed that if and when the debt reached a level where the bank became uncomfortable, Sir David as he did in 2004 when he underwrote a subscription for Rangers shares and thus eliminated much of the bank debt, would be able and willing to repeat this recovery effort. Whether or not he ultimately would have done so is now irrelevant, but what is clear is that “financial doping” is not and could never be construed as describing a situation where a club extends its credit facilities with a recognized financial institution. The level of the debt that a club is willing to tolerate, whether you are Celtic or Manchester United, is determined by that club in conjunction with the lender. Whether the amount involved is £10 million or £600 million is irrelevant to the principle.

On the other hand, I have to acknowledge that the malfeasance created by Craig Whyte when he manifestly used funds that did not belong to Rangers, i.e. taxes withheld from employees’ wage checks that rightfully should have been transmitted to HMRC, which avoided him having to invest his own money contrary to his expressed commitment to the Rangers stakeholders to do otherwise, and being either unwilling or unable (or both) to raise any credit to invest into Rangers, exposed our club as a victim of what could be loosely determined as “financial doping.” Thus, Whyte was able to pay the club’s operating expenses including player wages, but it was Rangers which suffered by being ultimately forced into liquidation.

Keep in mind, which is not always clear in the molasses of misinformation that is currently circulating, Rangers went into liquidation and suffered all the penalties and sanctions of which we are now aware, solely because of Mr. Whyte’s failure to pay HMRC the withholding tax that the club collected during the short term of his disgraceful proprietorship.

Finally, I would hope that the panel which has been charged with investigating Rangers' activities will draw a large circle around a universe of relevant reference points that should be considered in assessing the magnitude of the allegations made against the Club. For example, was the accepted practice of mitigating players overall tax liability utilized by several of the biggest clubs in Europe by drawing up separate contracts segregating off their image rights, which essentially denied that any compensation related thereto was a function of their obligation to play football, any different in principle than the alleged actions of Rangers FC?

[grunt]

The reality of the situation is that Sir David Murray, who was intimately involved in the architecture of these efforts to organize the business in a way to mitigate taxation which is totally legitimate and acceptable under all tenets of the law, would have signed and paid for these very same players whether or not EBT schemes were in effect or not. The only difference being one which only has a financial consequence, i.e. it would have increased Rangers reliance on bank debt. And of course, the little matter of £24m of unpaid tax on the EBT payments.

[Kaiser1962]

As they have throughout this whole process.

I am not sure they have been treated differently than anyone else would have been Spike, what more could have been done on the evidence so far available? They have certainly not gotten what they wanted other than merely surviving in the SFL so I cant see where any of the outcomes reached thus far have been desirable to them.

The liquidators have still to look at things and the Tax tribunal is still to report back, about which HMRC may still have something to say and I would say Old Rangers have not walked away from this yet. Add in the investigation into the breach of SFA/UEFA/FIFA rules and this may still get more uncomfortable for the Hun yet.

[StevieC]

Anyone fancy dissecting Alastair Johnston's statement made via RST?
I'll pick out this little paragraph ..

"I have been reviewing my files from around April 2011 relating to the annual routine of Rangers FC applying for and being granted a license to participate in organized football in Scotland."

So you're ignoring the 10 previous years where you were pulling the wool over everyone's eyes then ..

"Because of the publicity surrounding our club at the time, the SFA wrote to us asking for more details about the public speculation concerning our financial and tax situation."

So once the game was up ...

"The latter obviously referenced the impact of the EBT schemes as creating a potential taxation liability."

No s**t Sherlock ..

"The club responded accordingly and provided details, as it had done in previous years, by declaring player salaries, bonuses, benefits, etc."

Fair enough ..

"but also payments made to a Remuneration Trust."

Hang on .. this sounds like you hadn't previously mentioned these payments ..

"The SFA compliance officers must have known, both from the description and context of the reports, that such expenditures had some connection to player compensation."

So you are basing this assumption on the fact that an inept SFA (your words, not mine) were able to make a connection between player salaries and a previously unannounced Trust Scheme .. a bit presumptious to say the least ..

"However, without any further investigation at the time, Rangers FC received its SFA license to compete in the 2011/2012 season."

Hold on there bald eagle .. are you complaining about the SFA bending the rules for Rangers ..

"Rangers, therefore, were entitled to believe that they were not in breach of any SFA regulation requiring reporting of player compensation."

Ah, the old "I thought it was okay to do it" defence .. best of luck with that one ..

"If there was any question that the essence of these payments to a Remuneration Trust could have endangered the proud historical record of our team, then why was it not raised long before then."

Errr .. see previous response regarding the "SFA" and "bending over backwards" ..

[Onion]

The key word there is "considering". Once he has considered this for at least two minutes he will realise that Rangers (not The Rangers) were members of the SPL and ignored the rules of the SFA, Uefa and FIFA as well as probably breaking the law to boot. I think if they lose the honours won they are getting off bloody lightly.

:agree: So the downside of outright cheating is loss of the swag they acquired ? If they applied this logic to burglars there would be anarchy.

IMHO Green making such a song and dance about stripping of titles just forces the hand of the SPL. Cos, if they didn't strip them after all this, they would be seen as backing down or being influenced by the forces of darkness :confused: The Huns have signed their own warrant :greengrin

[Hibrandenburg]

I fear the worst when they're back in the SPL or come visiting in the Cup. They're being whipped up into a right old frenzy by Green and the manky hordes will feel they have a few scores to settle. It's gonna be ugly.

[Since90+2]

I fear the worst when they're back in the SPL or come visiting in the Cup. They're being whipped up into a right old frenzy by Green and the manky hordes will feel they have a few scores to settle. It's gonna be ugly.

Will be the same when they visit Pittodrie and Tannadice aswell id imagine :agree:

That will be nothing though compared to what Glasgow will be like if they play Celtic in the cup this year. Would be absolute chaos before/after that.

[Kaiser1962]

"player compensation" sounds suspiciously like employee renumeration. How thick actually are these people? Compensation is not a loan by any definition.

SFA rules of registration state "All payments made to a player relating to his playing activities must be clearly recorded upon the relevant contract and/or agreement. No payment for his playing activities may be made to the player through a third party."


I'll pick out this little paragraph ..

"I have been reviewing my files from around April 2011 relating to the annual routine of Rangers FC applying for and being granted a license to participate in organized football in Scotland."

So you're ignoring the 10 previous years where you were pulling the wool over everyone's eyes then ..

"Because of the publicity surrounding our club at the time, the SFA wrote to us asking for more details about the public speculation concerning our financial and tax situation."

So once the game was up ...

"The latter obviously referenced the impact of the EBT schemes as creating a potential taxation liability."

No s**t Sherlock ..

"The club responded accordingly and provided details, as it had done in previous years, by declaring player salaries, bonuses, benefits, etc."

Fair enough ..

"but also payments made to a Remuneration Trust."

Hang on .. this sounds like you hadn't previously mentioned these payments ..

"The SFA compliance officers must have known, both from the description and context of the reports, that such expenditures had some connection to player compensation."

So you are basing this assumption on the fact that an inept SFA (your words, not mine) were able to make a connection between player salaries and a previously unannounced Trust Scheme .. a bit presumptious to say the least ..

"However, without any further investigation at the time, Rangers FC received its SFA license to compete in the 2011/2012 season."

Hold on there bald eagle .. are you complaining about the SFA bending the rules for Rangers ..

"Rangers, therefore, were entitled to believe that they were not in breach of any SFA regulation requiring reporting of player compensation."

Ah, the old "I thought it was okay to do it" defence .. best of luck with that one ..

"If there was any question that the essence of these payments to a Remuneration Trust could have endangered the proud historical record of our team, then why was it not raised long before then."

Errr .. see previous response regarding the "SFA" and "bending over backwards" ..

[Eyrie]

Johnston is also being disingenous when he says that the payments by Huns RIP to the EBT were declared in their accounts. The issue here is not those payments, but the subsequent payments by the EBT to players and whether those payments were part of their wages for playing for Huns RIP.

[Moulin Yarns]

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-19569680

[Seveno]

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-19569680

With the FTT decision to be announced in October, I'd guess that the SPL enquiry conclusion and punishment will be delayed until after then.

It's going to be fun.

[grunt]

Rangers Tax-Case‏@rangerstaxcase For all the PR 'fight back' in the mainstream media from the ex-RFC establishment- Traynor, Johnston etc. the key facts remain clear...

Rangers' directors knew their implementation of EBT scheme was illegal and went to great lengths to hide how it worked from SPL & govt.

[Northernhibee]

That Charles Green interview is staggering. Talks about how they were never an SPL club, and five minutes later talks about taking Rangers "back to the top".

[PatHead]

That Charles Green interview is staggering. Talks about how they were never an SPL club, and five minutes later talks about taking Rangers "back to the top".

Don't forget that they own all the titles as well.............

[cam75]

I hear there could be stripping of knight hoods and poss jail time!!

[sahib]

Rangers Tax-Case‏@rangerstaxcase For all the PR 'fight back' in the mainstream media from the ex-RFC establishment- Traynor, Johnston etc. the key facts remain clear...

Rangers' directors knew their implementation of EBT scheme was illegal and went to great lengths to hide how it worked from SPL & govt.

They must have thought it legal at some point or else why use it? Brown paper bags would have been safer.

[CropleyWasGod]

They must have thought it legal at some point or else why use it? Brown paper bags would have been safer.

They were advised by Murray International's tax people that EBT's were a legitimate tax avoidance measure. IIRC, that advice was based on a scheme devised by..... (his name is somewhere in the dark depths of this thread)... who had had "success" with them elsewhere.

Tax avoidance schemes are devised all the time (see Carr, J. ). Some are legitimate, some are challenged by HMRC. Part of the reason they do spring up is that UK Tax Law is ridiculously complex; it then becomes a game between highly-paid experts on the one side, and civil servants on the other.

[Kaiser1962]

They were advised by Murray International's tax people that EBT's were a legitimate tax avoidance measure. IIRC, that advice was based on a scheme devised by..... (his name is somewhere in the dark depths of this thread)... who had had "success" with them elsewhere.

Tax avoidance schemes are devised all the time (see Carr, J. ). Some are legitimate, some are challenged by HMRC. Part of the reason they do spring up is that UK Tax Law is ridiculously complex; it then becomes a game between highly-paid experts on the one side, and civil servants on the other.


Is it not reasonably straightforward in that such a "loan" is a benefit in kind and should be declared as such?

All Rangers statements have admitted this, despite in the same breath also claiming that they did nothing wrong. English clubs had already settled and binned this scheme years ago. You would think that the Hun would take a hint from this.

[CropleyWasGod]

Is it not reasonably straightforward in that such a "loan" is a benefit in kind and should be declared as such?

All Rangers statements have admitted this, despite in the same breath also claiming that they did nothing wrong. English clubs had already settled and binned this scheme years ago. You would think that the Hun would take a hint from this.

Normally, if an employer makes a loan to an employee, there is deemed to be a benefit in kind if the interest rate is less than the "official" or market rate. The employee is taxed on the difference.

However, a loan is of course repayable, which is not what happened here. It's complicated by the fact that the Trust made the loan to people who were probably not its employees.

So... to answer your question, it's not straightforward :greengrin

It would be straightforward, though, if the loanees repaid the money.......:cb

[Kaiser1962]

Normally, if an employer makes a loan to an employee, there is deemed to be a benefit in kind if the interest rate is less than the "official" or market rate. The employee is taxed on the difference.

However, a loan is of course repayable, which is not what happened here. It's complicated by the fact that the Trust made the loan to people who were probably not its employees.

So... to answer your question, it's not straightforward :greengrin

It would be straightforward, though, if the loanees repaid the money.......:cb

If the loan is "written off" does it not then become taxable and incumbent on the individual who recieved the "loan" to settle the tax liabilities?

I do think that the statements of Dodds, Boumsong and now Johnson's comments that payments were "compensation" renders the discussion regarding whether the payments were legitimate EBT loans largely irrelevant. Also why did Johnson claim that the SFA were made aware for season 2011-2012 (coincidently only weeks after Murray sold to Whyte) and not ten years earlier, when they actually began using the scheme?

It appears to this poster that they have taken a very complicated and intricate tax avoidance sheme and made a total breek arse of it.

[Jack Hackett]

Is it not reasonably straightforward in that such a "loan" is a benefit in kind and should be declared as such?

All Rangers statements have admitted this, despite in the same breath also claiming that they did nothing wrong. English clubs had already settled and binned this scheme years ago. You would think that the Hun would take a hint from this.

Same as the old monkey with his paw in the jar of peanuts...too greedy and stupid to let go of the loot to get his paw out and scarper before he was caught :greengrin

[CropleyWasGod]

If the loan is "written off" does it not then become taxable and incumbent on the individual who recieved the "loan" to settle the tax liabilities?

I do think that the statements of Dodds, Boumsong and now Johnson's comments that payments were "compensation" renders the discussion regarding whether the payments were legitimate EBT loans largely irrelevant. Also why did Johnson claim that the SFA were made aware for season 2011-2012 (coincidently only weeks after Murray sold to Whyte) and not ten years earlier, when they actually began using the scheme?

It appears to this poster that they have taken a very complicated and intricate tax avoidance sheme and made a total breek arse of it.

It would do if they were employees. That's part of the issue, though. Were they employed by the trust?

And, your professional opinion, as expressed in your final paragraph, is right on the freaking button.....:top marks

[s.a.m]

What do you think has caused the delays in the tax case verdict?

[CropleyWasGod]

What do you think has caused the delays in the tax case verdict?

1. every instance of "EBTising" would have to be reviewed by the Tribunal. That takes time.

2. OldCo's tax advisers would have stopped working for them some time ago, as they wouldn't have been paid. That would delay, even stop, the dialogue that needs to happen in these situations.

[s.a.m]

1. every instance of "EBTising" would have to be reviewed by the Tribunal. That takes time.

2. OldCo's tax advisers would have stopped working for them some time ago, as they wouldn't have been paid. That would delay, even stop, the dialogue that needs to happen in these situations.

Thanks for that.

[matty_f]

He references the tribunal finding their use of ebt's as close to match fixing. That's incorrect, that particular charge, iirc, was aimed at the deliberate non-payment of tax by Craig Whyte.

[CropleyWasGod]

He references the tribunal finding their use of ebt's as close to match fixing. That's incorrect, that particular charge, iirc, was aimed at the deliberate non-payment of tax by Craig Whyte.

:agree: I don't think that the EBTs have been scrutinised by anybody "official", other than HMRC.

[Caversham Green]

He references the tribunal finding their use of ebt's as close to match fixing. That's incorrect, that particular charge, iirc, was aimed at the deliberate non-payment of tax by Craig Whyte.

He goes on to say

Rangers went into liquidationand suffered all the penalties and sanctions of which we are now aware, solelybecause of Mr. Whyte’s failure to pay HMRC the withholding tax that the clubcollected during the short term of his disgraceful proprietorship.

so he knows full well that the tribunal (which he inaccurately claims was a 'commission') didn't consider the EBTs.

Like Green's comments his statement is full of inconsistenies and half-truths - that's the real reason why they won't appear before the tribunal, because they'd get found out.

[greenginger]

Was'nt part of the deal struck between Green and the S F A, to get the OldCo license transferred to NewCo, that they would assist any SFA/SPL investigations, accept their findings and not challenge any sanctions in the Courts ?

It is all about playing to the gallery of demented bears who believe their Club should be untouchable ! - They are,of course, right in that respect. :greengrin

[DH1875]

I gave up on this thread ages ago but noticed today that they've said the tax case will be done by next month. My question is, does it really matter now? If they are found guilty and owe the tax man 50 million are the newco liable for it. As far as I knew they aren't and they have already gotten away with it.

[bighairyfaeleith]

I gave up on this thread ages ago but noticed today that they've said the tax case will be done by next month. My question is, does it really matter now? If they are found guilty and owe the tax man 50 million are the newco liable for it. As far as I knew they aren't and they have already gotten away with it.

matters for a couple of reasons I think, one it will set a precedent to go after other clubs with and they may also decide to pursue the directors of the company at the time i.e. SDM.

[StevieC]

matters for a couple of reasons I think, one it will set a precedent to go after other clubs with and they may also decide to pursue the directors of the company at the time i.e. SDM.

Hopefully soon to be simply DM

8688

[alfie]

I thought that we were refering to him simply as Minty Moonbeams now? :confused:

[JeMeSouviens]

1. every instance of "EBTising" would have to be reviewed by the Tribunal. That takes time.

2. OldCo's tax advisers would have stopped working for them some time ago, as they wouldn't have been paid. That would delay, even stop, the dialogue that needs to happen in these situations.

On pt 2: the Huns were represented by a lawyer representing the Murray Group. In fact it was a condition of the deal between Whyte and Murray that all dealings with the tax tribunal would continue to be via Murray Group reps.

[JeMeSouviens]

They were advised by Murray International's tax people that EBT's were a legitimate tax avoidance measure. IIRC, that advice was based on a scheme devised by..... (his name is somewhere in the dark depths of this thread)... who had had "success" with them elsewhere.

Tax avoidance schemes are devised all the time (see Carr, J. ). Some are legitimate, some are challenged by HMRC. Part of the reason they do spring up is that UK Tax Law is ridiculously complex; it then becomes a game between highly-paid experts on the one side, and civil servants on the other.

Paul Baxendale-Walker, a porn star lawyer *** tax adviser. Oo-er etc. ....

[steakbake]

I thought that we were refering to him simply as Minty Moonbeams now? :confused:

Can you explain that one? I've never understood what it means!

[JeMeSouviens]

Can you explain that one? I've never understood what it means!

Just before he appointed Paul Le Guen, Murray gave an interview saying "a massive moonbeam of success" was coming to Rangers. That worked out well then. :greengrin

[Liberal Hibby]

What I can't understand is given their impecunious circumstances is how they have managed to launch a new children's toy range?

Blue nose toys (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7zrklAik6dQ)

[The Green Goblin]

This thread's fair dyin' eh?

[Gettin' Auld]

What I can't understand is given their impecunious circumstances is how they have managed to launch a new children's toy range?

Blue nose toys (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7zrklAik6dQ)

Ha Ha - I thought it was called 'taxman teddy' when i first listened. :greengrin

[johnrebus]

This thread's fair dyin' eh?


Quiet for now, but not for long.


:devil:

[LeighLoyal]

Quiet for now, but not for long.


:devil:


Orcs were clinging on to the Juninho EBT in the whatabooterry stakes , that's that cuddly toy taken off the cheating inbreds! :aok: Not long now! EBT tribunal, Nimmo... the Sally and Gween whine won't stop what's coming.

[The Green Goblin]

Quiet for now, but not for long.


:devil:

Heh heh. Yup.... ;-)

[PatHead]

Orcs were clinging on to the Juninho EBT in the whatabooterry stakes , that's that cuddly toy taken off the cheating inbreds! :aok: Not long now! EBT tribunal, Nimmo... the Sally and Gween whine won't stop what's coming.

I hate the way Swally and "The Rangers" fans keep saying they are getting punished for the EBTs. They are not they are being investigated for cheating by not disclosing the earnings from dual contracts. As far as the SPL are concerned any club could have done EBTs as long as they declared them.

At this time the EBT problem is with Hector and no one else.

[Nailrod]

Latest in Sevco's inexorable rise back up the ranks of Scottish football...

Five games into the season, an amateur team is currently sitting higher in the Scottish Leagues than Sevco.

:agree:

[PatHead]

Latest in Sevco's inexorable rise back up the ranks of Scottish football...

Five games into the season, an amateur team is currently sitting higher in the Scottish Leagues than Sevco.

:agree:

Thanks for improving an awfy good day. Wee text round the huns coming up

[LeighLoyal]

Shame about Simpleton...:greengrin If I was a Div 3 window cleaner I'd be throwing hammers at them too! :aok:

[Antifa Hibs]

http://scottishfootballmonitor.wordpress.com/2012/09/10/charkes-green-we-stand-united-in-saying-no-more-what-will-footballs-authorities-do/comment-page-16/#comment-10738

Good wee post on the above link.

http://kumb.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=138488&p=3517202

Good wee read on that WHU forum tae. Hammers also must be anti-prod bigots aswell, eh Mr Green... :rolleyes:

[LeighLoyal]

Excellent post by a Hammer poster Wembley66. Sums it up very well, especially the Green shenanigans over the word EBT and newc/oldco when it suits them.


http://kumb.com/forum/styles/prosilver/imageset/icon_post_target.gif (http://kumb.com/forum/viewtopic.php?p=3517349#p3517349)by Wembley1966 (http://kumb.com/forum/memberlist.php?mode=viewprofile&u=17267) on Thu Sep 13, 2012 10:39 am

dub wrote:Cheats who perverted the course of the game in Scotland, and indeed in Europe via playing these players v every team they met in the period in question. a scandal unmatched in British (http://www.powerlinks.com/api/powerlink-click-custom?id=148&keyword=British&advertiser_intext_ad_id=191&campaign_id=1117&type=null) football history via tax dodging on a huge scale. And now this, dual contracts stuff!! FFS???

The main cheating that they have so far been found guilty of was not down to tax dodging - it was Rangers not paying income tax and VAT that had already been collected from employees and customers and not remitted to HMRC during last season (http://www.powerlinks.com/api/powerlink-click-custom?id=148&keyword=season&advertiser_intext_ad_id=292&campaign_id=1205&type=null). This resulted in the former owner, Craig Whyte being found guilty of bringing the game into disrepute (and fined which he hasn't paid) and Rangers prohibited from registering any players over the age of 18 for 12 months (Note that this is the ONLY punishment that Rangers has received throughout this whole fiasco, everything else is as a consequence of their own actions - 10 point deduction for going into administration, no longer eligible to play (http://www.powerlinks.com/api/powerlink-click-custom?id=148&keyword=play&advertiser_intext_ad_id=292&campaign_id=1205&type=null) in the SPL as they announced that they are going into liquidation, ineligible to play in Europe for 3 years as they are a new company).

The potential tax dodging through the use of EBTs is still not decided - that is known as The Big Tax Case and is currently awaiting the results of Rangers appeal to the First Tier Tribunal (Tax) that concluded hearing the evidence at the beginning of this year and whose judgement is still awaited (expected sometime in the next month, but not definite). The Dual Contracts is related to the use of EBTs in that the EBT payments in order to be tax efficient and legal had to be in the form of discretionary payments (i.e. not fixed payments each month and not related to any performance criteria such as appearances, win (http://www.powerlinks.com/api/powerlink-click-custom?id=148&keyword=win&advertiser_intext_ad_id=292&campaign_id=1205&type=null) bonuses, etc.) and that these payments were paid as a loan. No footballer, or their agents, would accept a considerable chunk of their income being discretionary and only a 'loan' so they had side letters (which were contractual) specifying the additional payments to them through the EBTs. These side letters had to be kept from HMRC and as a result they were also not disclosed to the SFA/SPL. SFA (and FIFA) rules require that all payments made to players (http://www.powerlinks.com/api/powerlink-click-custom?id=148&keyword=players&advertiser_intext_ad_id=292&campaign_id=1205&type=null), managers, etc must be declared to them - if they're not the player is deemed not to be properly registered.

So the dual contracts has been known about for a few years, but only after the BBC documentary in May that detailed the EBT payments and which players had side letters (http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-glasgow-west-18148818) did the the SPL get around to investigating them. They asked all their clubs back in May to submit details of their use of EBTs and Rangers (or Duff (http://www.powerlinks.com/api/powerlink-click-custom?id=148&keyword=Duff&advertiser_intext_ad_id=292&campaign_id=1205&type=null) & Phelps who were the administrators of Rangers at the time) didn't bother providing any information. It was only when they were threatened with expulsion that they provided the information. Independent lawyers then decided that there was a primae facia case for Rangers to answer and now the independent inquiry to investigate Rangers use of dual contracts will be heard in November.

This has nothing to do with the Big Tax Case decision and nothing to do with whether the EBTs were legal or not. Sevco are trying to muddy the waters and continually refer to the investigation as being about EBTs when it is not, it's about undisclosed dual contracts. You'll see comments from Sevco with all sorts of references that the use of EBTs are not illegal; that the EBTs were shown in the Company accounts and therefore the SFA knew about them and did nothing about them; that it was the old club and not us; that they won't cooperate with the investigation (how can they if it was the old club and not them) and also that Celtic (http://www.powerlinks.com/api/powerlink-click-custom?id=148&keyword=Celtic&advertiser_intext_ad_id=292&campaign_id=1205&type=null) paid Juninho through an EBT and why are they not being investigated (they're not, because all the documentation relating to the EBT payments was lodged with the SFA and they also paid the tax on it).


devonshire flu wrote:Sevco Franchise are going to lose their titles. Oldco directors will be going to jail.

Sevco are now arguing that they 'bought' the titles (similar to the Daves' offereing Citeh a few bob to buy last season's Premier title from them so we can claim it as ours?), and cannot have any that were won (http://www.powerlinks.com/api/powerlink-click-custom?id=148&keyword=won&advertiser_intext_ad_id=292&campaign_id=1205&type=null)by Rangers when playing illegally registered players taken away from them - Charles Green has also said that they have never played in the SPL so any decision of the SPL cannot affect them. Well if they never played in the SPL then they are a brand new club and have no history at all.

The Oldco directors won't go to jail over dual contracts - but they might over fraud relating to the whole fiasco over the running of Rangers for the last 10 years. If the Big Tax Case goes against Rangers then HMRC and Strathclyde police will be digging deeper. Will the players (http://www.powerlinks.com/api/powerlink-click-custom?id=148&keyword=players&advertiser_intext_ad_id=292&campaign_id=1205&type=null) be forced to repay their loans or pay the tax due if they were not loans!! Why did Graeme Souness benefit from EBT payments many years after he left Rangers whilst managing other clubs that were having transfer dealing with Rangers. Also once old Rangers are formally liquidated then BDO as liquidators will start to unravel how £100+m worth of assets were sold to Sevco for £5m (the gratuitous alienation!).

[grunt]

More from Alex Thomson

http://blogs.channel4.com/alex-thomsons-view/rangers-endorsed-downfall-book/2681


Rangers: Why I endorsed Downfall bookOne or two Rangers supporters have been asking in recent weeks why I decided to write the foreword for Phil Mac Giolla Bhain’s book on Rangers, Downfall.

There’s been rather a lot of noise about this so let me stick to some clear facts which illustrate why I endorse the book and why it is telling that – as far as the publisher is aware – not one MSM newspaper in Scotland has reviewed the book as yet. Which is odd, since it is currently into a third print-run. It is billed as Scottish Book of the Month in WHSmith and has been high in the Amazon bestseller lists. It is also (small detail lost in ear-spitting hysteria) the truth about Rangers.

I’ve had the usual endearing tsunami of abuse from a small number of Rangers fans for endorsing a book most claim not to have read (yes, I know…) But not one single communication taking issue with the facts, substance and truth of Downfall. The book is the truth – and no Rangers fan reading it will disagree with that. This is why I endorsed it. I have never met Mr Mac Giolla Bhain. He was not the source for any of the major stories about Rangers Channel 4 News broke this year. He wishes to see Rangers FC obliterated as far as I can discern.
I wish to see Rangers in the Champions League again. Mr Mac Giolla Bhain supports Celtic. I (let me say this just one more time) don’t. He writes about Rangers’ downfall with undisguised glee and mirth. I write, saddened for their legions of loyal fans so badly sold out by the suits.
But as a journalist and an outsider to this cauldron I simply want the facts of Rangers’ implosion in the public domain and those responsible held to account. That is why I made this clear in my foreword. And made it clear I do not, could not, share the Celtic-driven motivation of Mr Mac Giolla Bhain and other notable bloggers.

However, though the author and I may be in very different places, we want the truth about what happened. So all those interested should have one simple question in mind – is the book the truth of the Rangers fiasco? That, ultimately, is all that matters. I believe it is. I also believe the bizarre adventures of Downfall en route from the printers to the bookshelves prove an important dimension of the book and of my investigations into Rangers. Namely, the way in which the MSM in Glasgow have been outflanked by the bloggers and their distaste for handling the truth the bloggers have consistently delivered. Time and again the bloggers got the story first, and they mostly got it right. With some notable exceptions, Glasgow’s MSM were left playing catch-up and even now, handed the story on a plate, bizarre things happen.
The Scottish Sun’s u-turn and refusal to serialise, having done a double-page spread promoting the author and the coming serialisation-that-never-was will long remain a baffling and scarcely explained episode. Apparently it was not worries about a boycott. Apparently it was not the result of intimidation. But didn’t The Sun publish two pages on the author being threatened by Rangers fans in their own pre-serialisation splash? Didn’t The Sun approach the publisher asking for serialisation rights and not the other way round? Curiouser and curiouser…

So a man comes along plainly telling the truth about Rangers. Nobody disputes that. The Sun un-serialises and starts apologising. No other paper publishes so much as a review. And a review of a book which charts many things and one is – guess what? Yup – the strange, historic reluctance of the MSM in Glasgow to handle the truth of what happened at Ibrox. Many thought that culture was something of the past, gone with Sir David and Craig, history. Many thought that things are different now in Glasgow. The bizarre conduct of the MSM over Downfall suggests to some that the fear, the deference, is alive and well. Others will say Scotland’s newspapers completely ignoring the inside story of the nation’s biggest-ever sporting business catastrophe and near ruination of a gigantic footballing culture, was, well, just coincidence.
Nothing to see here. No story. Move along please.

[poolman]

More cr@p from Fatty Traynor


Whether or not they’ve suffered enough is a debate which will still rage, mostly in the cyber domains of the deranged, but it’s nonsense to suggest they haven’t been damaged.

I take it he means people like us :rolleyes:

http://www.dailyrecord.co.uk/sport/football/powerbrokers-have-known-of-rangers-ebts-for-years-1327563

[grunt]

And a reminder that Ticketus haven't entirely gone away

http://local.stv.tv/glasgow/190615-ex-rangers-owner-craig-whyte-faces-court-date-with-ticketus-over-27m-deal/


Ex-Rangers owner Craig Whyte faces court date with Ticketus over £27m dealTicketus is expected to begin court proceedings in the coming weeks against former Rangers owner Craig Whyte over a £26.7m deal he used to fund his takeover.
The ticketing firm is pursuing Mr Whyte after he used future season ticket sales to wipe out the Ibrox club’s £18m debt to Lloyds Banking Group last May. Ticketus, which is a subsidiary of Octopus Investments, is taking legal action against Mr Whyte after administrators Duff and Phelps failed to agree a company voluntary arrangement (CVA) with creditors in June. It is unclear whether Ticketus will launch the action in Scottish or English courts, while most of Mr Whyte’s business interests are linked to the British Virgin Islands-registered firm, Liberty Capital Ltd, including Rangers FC Group, the company he used to buy Sir David Murray’s 85% stake for £1. The civil action raised by the investment company is not likely to be heard until next year.

A spokesman for the firm said on Monday: "Ticketus is continuing to pursue, through the courts, the terms of the corporate and personal guarantees agreed with Craig Whyte at the time of the original contract between Ticketus and Rangers FC in May 2011." After being appointed in February, Duff and Phelps sought guidance from the Court of Session over the contract Mr Whyte had agreed with Ticketus to effectively fund his takeover of the Ibrox club. Lord Hodge found that Ticketus did not, under Scots law, own future season ticket sales at Rangers as it had claimed. He established that the company owned "personal contractual rights" to around 100,000 season ticket sales in a deal that could be breached by administrators if it was deemed to be in the interests of the creditors overall.

In May, Duff and Phelps gave Ticketus formal notification that the deal was being terminated, which was not opposed by the London firm. As a result, the company was listed as a creditor worth £26.7m in the failed CVA, which consigned the 'oldco' Rangers to liquidation under the control of neutral insolvency firm BDO. Following the failure to strike a deal with creditors, the administrators sold the Charles Green-led Sevco consortium the club's assets in a £5.5.m deal that saw them transferred to a newco.

On Monday BDO, which will be put in place on the insistence of Rangers’ largest creditor, HM Revenue and Customs, said it did not have a date for its appointment confirmed yet. In May, Ticketus announced that it had made demands for repayment from Mr Whyte and also from his wholly-owned company Liberty Capital. Rangers were plunged into administration in February owing up to £134m, including £18.3m in unpaid VAT and PAYE during Mr Whyte's nine-month reign at the club. Previously, Mr Whyte said: "The only person at risk from the deal is me personally because I gave Ticketus personal and corporate guarantees underwriting their investment; the club and the fans are fully protected. In terms of exposure, I am personally on the line for £27.5m in guarantees and cash."

[Hibiza]

:bye:

[PatHead]

A thing not mentioned is that they (MSM) can still publish excerpts from a bigotted, wife beater ex-Rangers player without any qualms. Double standards without a doubt.

[Stevie Reid]

More cr@p from Fatty Traynor


Whether or not they’ve suffered enough is a debate which will still rage, mostly in the cyber domains of the deranged, but it’s nonsense to suggest they haven’t been damaged.

I take it he means people like us :rolleyes:

http://www.dailyrecord.co.uk/sport/football/powerbrokers-have-known-of-rangers-ebts-for-years-1327563

He's utterly pathetic - still protecting David Murray to this day.

Tube.

Also tries to write with authority on EBTs but just seems to either have been genuinely suckered in by Green's pish, or is trying manipulate the idiots as cynically as Green is.

[ballengeich]

He's utterly pathetic - still protecting David Murray to this day.

Tube.

Yes - still seeking the succulent lamb. On the Radio Scotland phone in on Saturday evening he was also supporting another misconception - that Rangers were not in any financial trouble when Whyte took over from Murray as their debt was sustainable. They could service the debt, but that was less important than the underlying trading model which depended on being the Champions' League every season. As soon as Malmo beat them a multi-million pound loss for the season was on the way and the debt was soaring again. I think Whyte actually said he should have put them into administration the day after the Malmo defeat.

This goes back to the reason why no smart Rangers-supporting business man wanted to hand David Murray a pound to take control of Rangers. They all knew that they would either have to find many more millions to support a loss-making club or make a level of spending cuts that would leave them as the Orcs' public enemy number 1 with all the hassle that would cause.

[jacomo]

He's utterly pathetic - still protecting David Murray to this day.

Tube.

Also tries to write with authority on EBTs but just seems to either have been genuinely suckered in by Green's pish, or is trying manipulate the idiots as cynically as Green is.

Traynor's article is a disgrace. Seems the Huns and their mouthpieces will spout any old incendiary nonsense to back up their argument, regardless of whether or not it's true.

Alex Thomo's criticism of the Scottish media is spot on - they have a lot to answer for.

[LeighLoyal]

Yes - still seeking the succulent lamb. On the Radio Scotland phone in on Saturday evening he was also supporting another misconception - that Rangers were not in any financial trouble when Whyte took over from Murray as their debt was sustainable. They could service the debt, but that was less important than the underlying trading model which depended on being the Champions' League every season. As soon as Malmo beat them a multi-million pound loss for the season was on the way and the debt was soaring again. I think Whyte actually said he should have put them into administration the day after the Malmo defeat.

This goes back to the reason why no smart Rangers-supporting business man wanted to hand David Murray a pound to take control of Rangers. They all knew that they would either have to find many more millions to support a loss-making club or make a level of spending cuts that would leave them as the Orcs' public enemy number 1 with all the hassle that would cause.



The guy is an absolute joke. At least Cosgrove is there to lend some impartial credibility, but please just get rid of Traynor BBC! You can also add the fact they knew, pre Whyte, that they had the wee tax bill to pay and the much bigger tax bill also despite the claims that their legal advice said otherwise. "Legal advice" from the same porn dude that set it up for them I'll guess. Shameless club.

[Baldy Foghorn]

Saw photo in one newspaper Today from Annan match.....

Was a knuckle-dragger with clenched fist, with union jack draped on barrier....The words painted on it were "SFA & SPL CORRUPT TO THE CORE"..

Amazing that it is everyone's fault bar their own Club....... And they wonder why they are hated throughout the Country :faf:

[Seveno]

Had anyone seen Jim Traynor and Charles Green at the same time ?

Thought not. :cb

[Jim44]

Continuing the 'it's never our fault them' they are putting the Templeton injury down to the plastic pitch, saying these pitches should not be used at that level. Several identical surfaces are used by Champions League clubs.

[green glory]

Continuing the 'it's never our fault them' they are putting the Templeton injury down to the plastic pitch, saying these pitches should not be used at that level. Several identical surfaces are used by Champions League clubs.

"At that level". You've got to laugh at that.

[jonty]

"At that level". You've got to laugh at that.
Correct. At their level. Wonder why the rest of the outfield players never picked up injuries caused by the pitch.

[grunt]

Chris McLaughlin‏@BBCchrismclaug#SFA (http://www.hibs.net/search/?src=hash&q=%23SFA) issue complaint against Charles Green. Charge - bringing game into disrepute by saying SPL investigation into EBT's already decided.

Chris McLaughlin‏@BBCchrismclaug Second Green charge - not acting in best interest of the game by calling into question the integrity of #SPL (http://www.hibs.net/search/?src=hash&q=%23SPL) commission. #Rangers (http://www.hibs.net/search/?src=hash&q=%23Rangers) #SFA (http://www.hibs.net/search/?src=hash&q=%23SFA)

[dangermouse]

Hopefully soon to be simply DM

8688

I've done nothing wrong :greengrin

[danhibees1875]

Someone once posted stats for teams average attendances with Rangers fixtures included and without.

Does anyone know where this is? Or even where I coud get the data from to recreate these statistics.

Thanks. :thumbsup:

[Seveno]

So after tonight's embarrassing defeat, how long before Chuck fires Sally ?

[matty_f]

That defeat will cost them hundreds.

[cocopops1875]

That defeat will cost them hundreds.

HAHAHAHA loved this

[Capt Mainwaring]

Is it really such a shock when a higher league team see off lower league opposition?

[LeighLoyal]

No Orcs in Ramsden! Oh they'll be no Orcs in Ramsden...

[AgentDaleCooper]

i'm confused - i hate rangers so much, but they keep on doing things that make me really, really happy. :confused:

[LeighLoyal]

NEVER forget what McCoist and Green did to this club!!!!!!




















:faf:

[frazeHFC]

I'm the googlebot, only guests see me.
Register to remove me.

[WarringtonHibee]

NEVER forget what the Queen (of the South) did to this club.






:tee hee:

[JeMeSouviens]

Attendance last night - 23000. Fair enough, it was the diddiest of diddy cups, but the defiance may just be starting to fade. :wink: Spiers in the Herald is openly questioning Fat Sally's position today. Meanwhile, I missed this last week, a nice summary from Roger Mitchell, former heid bummer at the SPL:



Does Green actually buy this stuff? Let's take a look

Roger Mitchell

For someone who claimed the Scottish Premier League was a really bad idea a few weeks ago, I found myself surprised that I felt the strong urge to defend my former organisation in the face of the bombast from Charles Green.

I truly hope by the time that this is read, someone officially representing the SPL will have done likewise. I ask myself, does Green actually buy this stuff? Let's take a look:

Claim 1 Rangers ceased to be subject to the SPL's rules when they were ejected from their league.

Fact Rangers oldco was not ejected from the SPL. The fact that Rangers went into liquidation automatically expelled them from the league. The SPL shareholders then decided not to make an exception and let them back in. Two very different things.

Claim 2 The outcome of the SPL's process will have no legal effect.

Fact What the SPL are deciding upon is whether their tournament and their trophy was assigned to the correct club in the years in question.

The SPL have every right to examine whether participants in their competition behaved within the rules. And if they find they haven't, they can apply their rule book as recourse. More Green nonsense.

I do, however, agree with him that "whatever decision they reach is a decision of the SPL". Indeed. But the SPL should be proud of that, and not hide behind the Law Lords.

The SPL are examining the conduct of the participants in their competition well before Rangers went into liquidation, in particular the conduct of the club then owned by Sir David Murray, with the club secretary role (in charge of those player registrations) held by Campbell Ogilvie (whatever happened to him?). Charles Green and Sevco have nothing to do with this. Whatsoever.

Claim 3 The new owners purchased all the business and assets of Rangers, including titles and trophies.

Fact Green said on June 2012 that if his CVA proposal was to fail (which it did) and Rangers were to be liquidated (which they are), "the history, the tradition, everything that's great about this club is swept aside".

Therefore he admits he has not purchased titles and trophies. Sevco has no titles and trophies.

By the way, Charles, I would not provoke commentators like me to dig this up, because what you said is not what the Rangers fans want to hear now, as you now correctly realise. Let it lie, Charlie, let it lie.

So, even one with a leaning towards Govan would argue that, under the most superficial scrutiny, Green's attack is less than robust. But sometimes you have to chuck a dog a bone. So, to be fair, Charlie is right with his complaint on the SPL's lack of consistency,

Green states: "The SPL took part in discussions regarding the new company's league status, where 'the EBT issue' would be dealt with as part of a package of sanctions which would be implemented in return for membership.

"We do not accept that people who are willing to come to an agreement on such matters then have a right to instigate a full-blown inquisition when matters do not unfold as they thought they would."

Sadly this falls into the general shambles of the management of the affair by the SFA/SPL. I made my own view clear on the leadership of both bodies in the summer. But I cannot see how the credibility of the current process on a simple point of law over false registration of players with Employee Benefit Trusts (being handled by independent top QCs) can be derailed by claims that the prosecutor behaved incoherently months earlier.

Good debating point, Charles, but it's not enough. Instead, all of us who love the game and who hold true sporting values in our hearts have a simple question: Did Rangers oldco gain unfair advantage by registering players on a basis where their full employment conditions were not declared to the SPL/SFA?

In my mind the answer is undoubtedly 'yes'. But let's not forget the lessons of Versailles: bloodlust rebounds.

The SPL enquiry punishment doesn't arouse great passion in me. And it shouldn't either for Celtic fans. For them I'd argue the victory is in the fact that their greatest rival died.

The 125-year long struggle ended with the collapse of the adversary. The war was won. Achilles vanquished Hector.

In closing, from Mark Anthony onwards history tells us that well-crafted oratory can influence the mob.

While Charles Green is no great speaker or statesman, I must admit, he is no dummy. And there is no doubt that his audience is the mob, whose money and favour he needs in order to exit the Rangers investment project with a financial return.

Stoking up hatred has always energised "the base", another example of which we saw in the Republican convention in these days.

Well done, Charles. Initial Public Offering of shares here we come.

For Scottish football, the days of enlightenment around the Tommy Burns funeral are long gone, and I fear the worst.

[JimBHibees]

Is it really such a shock when a higher league team see off lower league opposition?

Was thinking the exact same last night? :greengrin

[WindyMiller]

Attendance last night - 23000. Fair enough, it was the diddiest of diddy cups, but the defiance may just be starting to fade. :wink: Spiers in the Herald is openly questioning Fat Sally's position today. Meanwhile, I missed this last week, a nice summary from Roger Mitchell, former heid bummer at the SPL:



"I've spent years at Ibrox on such midweeks covering big European ties against Manchester United, Barcelona, Valencia and Inter Milan.
But not this: a grim Rangers struggle against Queen of the South which ended 2-2 after 90 minutes and a 4-3 win on penalties for the visitors, leaving mutterings again about the ability of Ally McCoist as Rangers manager.
These are times of severe humble pie at Rangers – causing great mirth for some and pain for others – and there is plenty more of it to come over the next three years.
But this game caused some to ask once more: can McCoist prevail as manager?
McCoist is adored at Ibrox, and has been a sheet-anchor in this self-inflicted fiasco at Rangers, but even he cannot remain immune from the critics you hear around this club.
On this night one voice from the main stand shouted down: “Ally, yer coat’s on a shaky nail, son!”
With Rangers stumbling in their new environment, and failing to beat such teams as Peterhead, Berwick Rangers, Annan Athletic and Queen of the South, a fresh focus has been brought to bear on McCoist’s ability.
There are many things in his favour but, right now, statistics cannot be cited among them.
McCoist’s record as Rangers manager in competitive games now reads: Played 55, Won 33, Drawn 10, Lost 12.
The Rangers boss is one of the most popular figures in the history of the club but some fans are not overly enamoured at these statistics, especially as they include 10 recent matches among the lower divisions.
Indeed, since losing to Kilmarnock in the SPL at Ibrox in February, the record of McCoist and Rangers reads: Played 22, Won 13, Drawn 4, Lost 5.
How good is all this? Not good enough for Rangers, and McCoist knows it. Having already witnessed his team being ditched from four cup competitions over 14 months – the Champions League and Europa League qualifiers, the League Cup and the Scottish Cup – McCoist’s players have shown a fragility which has continued, even now in the Ramsdens Cup.
Against Queen of the South that brittleness was evident to all. The visitors looked superior to McCoist’s team for an hour, and, even having gone 2-1 behind, they hounded and harassed Rangers and caused the home fans to become flustered at 2-2.
This was another bad moment for McCoist. For some reason Rangers, even with their batch of SPL players, are toiling in the lower regions of Scottish football. At the very least it must gnaw at the Ibrox manager.
It is absurd just now to think of Charles Green removing McCoist, just as it seems inconceivable that at some stage Rangers will not advance to the top of the Third Division and win it in comfort.
But just imagine if this laboured football continues….what then? McCoist has been central to Green’s rejuvenation at Rangers, in converting the fans’ hearts and minds to the Yorkshireman, but the manager cannot be viewed as immovable.
Green needs Rangers to be a success if he is to make money – his stated aim – from his Ibrox intervention. For that to happen, a successful Rangers manager will be the key. In this context, McCoist somehow needs to hoist himself and his team away from these months of on-field stumbling.
On the plus side, the Rangers support seem to be grinning and bearing all this through gritted teeth. The truth is, being out of Europe for four years and ploughing through the Third Division is the last place any of them want to be, yet the club’s faithful are doggedly sticking at it.
The attendance against Queen of the South was 23,932: not stellar, but it was the Ramsdens Cup. And Champions League football involving Manchester City and Real Madrid was live on television.
Not so long ago these illustrious teams might have been here at Ibrox on the European stage. But a scandal has robbed Rangers of such status and prestige.
McCoist hopes to be the man to lead Rangers back to the summit in three years’ time. Right now, though, that looks anything but certain."

[Bad Martini]

Well well well...

Dumped out the SPL. Nae history. Nae trophies. Nae decent players. Nae future. Nae mair Ramsdens Cup. Fourth in the THIRD division behind the mighty Elgin and Peterheid no less.

Scrounging about for points.

Even less people like them, universally.

And they are more skint than ever before.

Such a huge ****ing shame.

Carlsberg dont make monumental **** ups and falls from grace but if they did.......:na na:

And finally...







































NAE ****ING JOY ! :na na::na na::na na:

HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA :na na:

ENDOF

[NatureBoy]

Major LOL!! The mighty Montrose visit Castle Greyskull at the weekend I wonder if Der Hun will manage to scrape a point!
:lolrangers:

[21.05.2016]

Well well well...

Dumped out the SPL. Nae history. Nae trophies. Nae decent players. Nae future. Nae mair Ramsdens Cup. Fourth in the THIRD division behind the mighty Elgin and Peterheid no less.

Scrounging about for points.

Even less people like them, universally.

And they are more skint than ever before.

Such a huge ****ing shame.

Carlsberg dont make monumental **** ups and falls from grace but if they did.......:na na:

And finally...







































NAE ****ING JOY ! :na na::na na::na na:

HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA :na na:

ENDOF



:top marks

[Hibercelona]

Allow me to be next to stick the boot in.

:lolrangers:

[Seveno]

NEVER forget what McCoist and Green did to this club!!!!!!














:top marks

[Frazerbob]

Rangers are to reinstated into the Ramsdens Cup following news that QOTS players have dual contracts!!!! One is a brickie, one is a butcher and one is a lollipop man...........boom boom!

:lolrangers:

[JohnStephens91]

Two things:

1. Please can it be changed to 'The Rangers FC 2012' in the thread title?

2. For some laughs, here is the match thread from the game last night: http://forum.rangersmedia.co.uk/index.php?showtopic=238411

:lolrangers: :nanafunk:

[forthhibby]

can i just remember all you's in the east that Radio Clyde still have a football phone in at 6 each week day evening :greengrin

[Hibercelona]

Rangers are to reinstated into the Ramsdens Cup following news that QOTS players have dual contracts!!!! One is a brickie, one is a butcher and one is a lollipop man...........boom boom!

:lolrangers:

:top marks

[Hibercelona]

Two things:

1. Please can it be changed to 'The Rangers FC 2012' in the thread title?

2. For some laughs, here is the match thread from the game last night: http://forum.rangersmedia.co.uk/index.php?showtopic=238411

:lolrangers: :nanafunk:

Plenty of laughter threads from the orcs on here as well.

http://www.pieandbovril.com/forum/index.php/forum/116-rangers-in-the-sfl/

:greengrin

[JohnStephens91]

Plenty of laughter threads from the orcs on here as well.

http://www.pieandbovril.com/forum/index.php/forum/116-rangers-in-the-sfl/

:greengrin

The best thing about reading the match thread is the amount of their fans who are saying 'FFS the crowd is awful, I might just switch to Real vs Man City' and their location is Glasgow or the surrounding area haha. They don't do walking away because none of them have to walk back to their house because they're already there.

[jgl07]

Rangers are to reinstated into the Ramsdens Cup following news that QOTS players have dual contracts!!!! One is a brickie, one is a butcher and one is a lollipop man...........boom boom!

:lolrangers:

Yes but Rangers have at least one part-time painter and decorator on the staff.

Cue the Rolling Stones: "Paint it Black".

[R'Albin]

I'm the googlebot, only guests see me.
Register to remove me.

So why do I still see you then? :greengrin

[Apocalypso]

This is just terrific.

Do you love it?

[Flynn]

Hun Wars:

http://www.starwars.com/play/online-activities/crawl-creator/index.jsp?cs=u5gubrqw6s

[steakbake]

Two things:

1. Please can it be changed to 'The Rangers FC 2012' in the thread title?

2. For some laughs, here is the match thread from the game last night: http://forum.rangersmedia.co.uk/index.php?showtopic=238411

:lolrangers: :nanafunk:

That match thread was amazing. From misplaced dickish arrogance to despair all captured in writing. Brilliant.

[Off the bar]

''sally maccoist has been chosen to boost the town's struggling team''

life imitating art at hunbrox now

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=97ax8T7RPMs

although mercifully in real life sally does'nt get the holywood ending

:lolrangers:



:giruy:

[Captain Trips]

I have it on good authority that Rangers have been in high level meetings all of today and tonight and managed to get QOS thrown out and themselves reinstated in Ramsdens cup. There has been a leaked photo from this meeting

Evidence (http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/a/a6/Only_Fools_Chain_Gang.jpg)

[Hermit Crab]

I have it on good authority that Rangers have been in high level meetings all of today and tonight and managed to get QOS thrown out and themselves reinstated in Ramsdens cup. There has been a leaked photo from this meeting

Evidence (http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/a/a6/Only_Fools_Chain_Gang.jpg)

Carlsberg have you been on the carlsberg??

[Hibercelona]

I have it on good authority that Rangers have been in high level meetings all of today and tonight and managed to get QOS thrown out and themselves reinstated in Ramsdens cup. There has been a leaked photo from this meeting

Evidence (http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/a/a6/Only_Fools_Chain_Gang.jpg)

I know. I heard an army of Rangers fans marching down my street chanting "God bless dirty cheats".








I'll get ma coat. :hide:

[hibbybrian]

An update courtesy of DG on hibs-list

Sky Sports breaking news The Rangers are to be reinstated into the Ramsden Cup following an investigation into Queen of the South players having duel contracts, one was found to be a brickie another one a plasterer and one a lolliepop man
McCoist has been in touch with Kate Middleton's lawyers. Apparently he doesn't want his tits seen again in public either.


:greengrin

[IWasThere2016]

Sky Sports breaking news - The Rangers are to be reinstated into the Ramsden Cup following an investigation into Queen of the South players having duel contracts, one was found to be a brickie, another one a plasterer, and one a lolliepop man

[hibs0666]

Kate M anagram is naked tit model dontcha know