Generic Sevco / Rangers meltdown thread

[Hibbyradge]

11 Team SPL Proposal.


As suggested earlier by another poster, we could just have an 11 team SPL this season. To accomplish this fairly, do away with the split and play each other 4 times, making a total of 40 games.

This would mean that each club would have one extra home game, thereby helping in a small way to make up for any missing cash from home gate v Rankers.

How does that sound?

:dunno:

I suggested this a while ago, but it didn't let much support.
Maybe folk have too many negative memories of when the SPL had 10th teams and played each other 4 times.

[blackpoolhibs]

It's not a terrible idea, but it would need 44 dates to play the 40 games, with each team being idle for the 4 games not played against the 12th team. That could cause scheduling issues because you would need to find six additional dates in the season.

They manage it easily in the english championship, they also have both FA and League cups. It can be done.

[poolman]

Fat blob Traynor to-day

But is it really the will of the people or the ignorant views of semi-literate gangs of keyboard clatterers?


Fat git, I'm not a violent person really but I defo would make an exception with him


http://blogs.dailyrecord.co.uk/jimtraynor/2012/07/no-to-rangers-newco-means-spl.html?utm_source=feedburner&utm_medium=feed&utm_campaign=Feed%3A+TheDailyRecord%2FJimTraynor+% 28The+Daily+Record+-+Jim+Traynor%29

[Jim44]

Neil Doncaster presided over the signing of commercial contract's with a get-out clause for the partner's stipulating -
"If Rangers or Celtic leave the SPL the agreement is terminated."


What it should have said.........
"If Rangers or Celtic VOLUNTARILY leave the SPL the agreement is terminated."

We keep hearing about the Sky walkaway. Has anybody actually seen the wording of the contract? I assume the word 'voluntarily' is supposition or desire on the poster's part. Show us clear evidence that they will go. Anything on the matter I've seen says they will not be walking away. Then again, if they actually did walk away, some other agency/angencies would no doubt take their place albeit on less money. All clubs would have to 'cut their cloth'.

[jgl07]

They manage it easily in the english championship, they also have both FA and League cups. It can be done.

But they don't have to keep most midweek slots before Christmas clear for European matches. I know that most of the Scottish teams will be eliminated before the season starts but they cannot be scheduled from the start.

I seem to recalls loads of mid-week matches when the Scottish Premier Division played with a 44 match season.

On the other hand it would kill stone dead any prospects of Newco getting anywhere near the SFL next season.

East of Scotland League anyone?

[McSwanky]

Fat blob Traynor to-day

But is it really the will of the people or the ignorant views of semi-literate gangs of keyboard clatterers?


Fat git, I'm not a violent person really but I defo would make an exception with him


http://blogs.dailyrecord.co.uk/jimtraynor/2012/07/no-to-rangers-newco-means-spl.html?utm_source=feedburner&utm_medium=feed&utm_campaign=Feed%3A+TheDailyRecord%2FJimTraynor+( The+Daily+Record+-+Jim+Traynor)

More of the same guff from The Blob.

He does, however, make a pertinent point about clubs losing out whether Rangers drop into the 1st division or not. Thanks to that shower of numpties (and the authorities that let them get away with it), Scottish Football is now totally stuck between a rock and a hard place. But we have to choose one, so 'sporting integrity' it is.

As for Traynor, nobody would listen to his rants if he was in his local. The fact that the Record (and the BBC) still give him a soap box to peddle his drivel is quite remarkable.

[Stevie Reid]

Fat blob Traynor to-day

But is it really the will of the people or the ignorant views of semi-literate gangs of keyboard clatterers?


Fat git, I'm not a violent person really but I defo would make an exception with him


http://blogs.dailyrecord.co.uk/jimtraynor/2012/07/no-to-rangers-newco-means-spl.html?utm_source=feedburner&utm_medium=feed&utm_campaign=Feed%3A+TheDailyRecord%2FJimTraynor+( The+Daily+Record+-+Jim+Traynor)

To prevent people having to give their website more clicks: -

No to Rangers newco means SPL have thrown their problem at SFLBy jim Traynor (http://blogs.dailyrecord.co.uk/jimtraynor/jim_traynor/) on Jul 5, 12 07:40 AM in spl (http://blogs.dailyrecord.co.uk/jimtraynor/spl/html)

NOW it's all so much clearer. The fate of the entire Scottish game lies with the SFL.

The SPL have made their decision which means the clubs they left behind must now save us.

At least and at last a degree of clarity. But hold on ... Oh My God.

Does this mean everything depends now on the view of Turnbull Hutton? And John Yorkston?
Whatever cash is left in the game we'll need for clean underwear.

Turnbull, the bold John and their mates will shape the game's future. Stand aside, women and children first.

By saying "no" to Rangers newco the SPL have thrown THEIR problem at the SFL hoping the smaller clubs will give Charles Green's venture a home.
They will find space for Rangers but it might not be in their own top division.

The SFL clubs, who still harbour a deep grudge because they were cut adrift by the top sides in 1998, are in no mood to be railroaded into helping.
They'll demand concessions and rightly so.

Their chief executive, David Longmuir, has already listed demands which will include an absolute commitment to streamline the administrations - three governing bodies is a nonsense - better governance, which would include a change to the voting structures, and a fairer distribution of whatever wealth remains in the game.

The SPL, because they neglected to craft legislation to deal with insolvency traumas, now desperately need the help and understanding of the clubs they left behind.
A number of those clubs have been waiting for this day and they'll make the most of their moment.

It would be difficult to argue they aren't entitled to be rubbing their hands gleefully but this isn't about getting even. This is about the survival of the game.
Leaders of the SPL and SFL have warned something like £16million could be lost to our football but a growing number among the SFL chairmen are sceptical about the figures.
And neither do they believe that as many as 10 clubs from the game's four levels could go to the wall.

But it is understood just more than £12m would be lost from altered TV deals and at least £4.5m could be drained from sponsorship contracts if Rangers go to the Third Division.
TV accounts for a third of the average SPL club's income and that's why it's too simplistic when fans and some misinformed - and frankly ignorant - commentators say they should wean themselves off this dependence on telly cash.

Now that we know the extent of the financial fallout, it isn't sense or pragmatism which is making hacks and chairmen stick to their sporting integrity and fair play themes.
It's a mixture of settling old scores, blind hatred and downright malice.

Of course Rangers should and would have been ordered to apply for admission via the bottom tier had the SPL regulars been more concerned with proper governance over the years rather than forming divisive cabals and little power bases.

But because Scottish football is a complete mess other factors must now be taken into
consideration.

So surely a sensible compromise rather than a spiteful one must be found. But justice is justice they all wail. We can't put a price on fair play they scream.
Get real and stop wearing out your knuckles on your keyboards. What real fan would want his club, innocents in all of this, to shut because of a desire to get at the real culprits?
Rangers did this and they are suffering. But this need to put them down further will endanger other innocent clubs.

When the greed of bankers dragged the world into this deep recession the right thing to do would have been to let them close and take the big salaries and bonuses.
But we didn't because that would have amounted to financial suicide and made life even tougher for the rest of us.

Common sense had to prevail but not here. Not in Scottish football where heads are used only to nod goals.

But if we refuse to engage our brains we will score the most damaging own goal in the history of our game. And all because when the fans railed our chairmen failed.
Instead of thinking ahead they thought only of the moment. Must sell season tickets, must listen to fans.

Just the other day one SPL chairman said: "It's hopeless. If I don't vote 'no' fans won't buy season tickets and I'll be shut.
"If I vote 'no' and Rangers are put down to the Third Division the money lost to the game will mean my club will have to be closed. It's madness."
And it is crazy. So-called fans who dominate their message boards appear to be running the show and are now pressing SFL clubs into doing the right thing, which is actually the wrong thing for the game in general.

But is it really the will of the people or the ignorant views of semi-literate gangs of keyboard clatterers?
There are still a few men at the heart of this who know a compromise has to be found and Longmuir is working away and calming members on the verge of panic.
Longmuir and one or two others realise the folly of shunting Rangers all the way down and are trying to make people step back from the brink.
Not because Rangers shouldn't be punished further but because the collateral damage would be unacceptable.
The SFL will meet next week to decide the fate of the game.

Entertaining though it is to listen to your rants Turnbull, just think. That's it, just think, and if enough of us do we just might not blow our brains out.

[Ryan91]

More of the same guff from The Blob.

He does, however, make a pertinent point about clubs losing out whether Rangers drop into the 1st division or not. Thanks to that shower of numpties (and the authorities that let them get away with it), Scottish Football is now totally stuck between a rock and a hard place. But we have to choose one, so 'sporting integrity' it is.

As for Traynor, nobody would listen to his rants if he was in his local. The fact that the Record (and the BBC) still give him a soap box to peddle his drivel is quite remarkable.

I sincerely wish he allowed comments on his blog, if only to see what people think of his 'journalism'

[LeighLoyal]

Fat blob Traynor to-day

But is it really the will of the people or the ignorant views of semi-literate gangs of keyboard clatterers?


Fat git, I'm not a violent person really but I defo would make an exception with him


http://blogs.dailyrecord.co.uk/jimtraynor/2012/07/no-to-rangers-newco-means-spl.html?utm_source=feedburner&utm_medium=feed&utm_campaign=Feed%3A+TheDailyRecord%2FJimTraynor+( The+Daily+Record+-+Jim+Traynor)


Hilarious that anyone thinks this guy has a shred of credibility left. Seriously damaged goods!

[Stevie Reid]

I sincerely wish he allowed comments on his blog, if only to see what people think of his 'journalism'

If he allowed comments on his blog he would have to put up with links to excellent articles such as this, to which he has no answer: -

http://wingsland.podgamer.com/ranging-far-and-wide/

[blackpoolhibs]

I sincerely wish he allowed comments on his blog, if only to see what people think of his 'journalism'

:agree: He commented on Thompson contributing next to nothing to this????? WTF is he on, Thompson at least asked the questions he and the other clowns wouldn't ask. He's not in their payroll, Traynor has been shown up to be what he really is, a hopeless hack.

[Stevie Reid]

Hilarious that anyone thinks this guy has a shred of credibility left. Seriously damaged goods!

True - he is clearly choosing the path of least resistance in that whilst supporters of other clubs will dismiss his insulting rants as utter nonsense, it's nothing compared to what he would face (violence, threats, intimidation) had he been brave enough to call the situation as it actually is, and piss off the neanderthal knuckle draggers in the "Rangers" support.

What isn't hilarious sadly, is the fact that in his employment by the BBC, we, the tax payer, are effectively paying his wages. Many things have come out recently that have confirmed the long held suspicions of many that huge institutions are biased towards Rangers and the money that they generate - can we now add the BBC to that list?

[Moulin Yarns]

Less income from less home games.

What happens at the split?

11 team SPLtypo could give you a full 2 home and 2 away equalling 40 games (20 home and away) and no split

sorted in one simple move

:cb

[Moulin Yarns]

11 Team SPL Proposal.


As suggested earlier by another poster, we could just have an 11 team SPL this season. To accomplish this fairly, do away with the split and play each other 4 times, making a total of 40 games.

This would mean that each club would have one extra home game, thereby helping in a small way to make up for any missing cash from home gate v Rankers.

How does that sound?

:dunno:


BUT THAT WOULD MEAN THERE WOULD BE NO VACANCY IN THE SFL!!!!!

Brilliant idea :greengrin

I should have kept reading before Posted the same thing.

[hibeeleicester]

Look at this belter from my facebook....


Sky sports canceld when i told them my reason for cancelin and said am probz not the 1st phone call u have had the day with this reason the reply i got was.. Oh i didnt know that about rangers.u are the 1st i phone call ive had about that.. Think u are talkin out yer hole! ****in arse!

:rolleyes:

[BEEJ]

Fat blob Traynor to-day

But is it really the will of the people or the ignorant views of semi-literate gangs of keyboard clatterers?
:tee hee:

As someone who appears to draw a salary for being almost semi-literate, Traynor is in no position to judge anyone on that score.

[VickMackie]

Which is exactly what makes us the most powerful entity in the game!

Whats more powerful.... 10's (maybe even 100's) of thousands of football fans, or a few guys in suites with fancy titles?

We ARE the game and if they want to threaten us with their so called "proposals", then we should start fighting back with a few proposals of our own.

WE have the power to change the game for the better. Its OUR game.

Unfortunately that's not true about the power. The few control the many.

Look at things on a bigger scale, hundreds of thousand on the streets against austerity measures. 1 million marching against the Iraq war etc etc. all controlled by 600 cocks in suits.

The only power fans have is to walk away. Which we don't want to do.

[Judas Iscariot]

Look at this belter from my facebook....



:rolleyes:

I'd be embarrassed to admit to having someone so illiterate on my FB:cb

[Hibercelona]

Unfortunately that's not true about the power. The few control the many.

Look at things on a bigger scale, hundreds of thousand on the streets against austerity measures. 1 million marching against the Iraq war etc etc. all controlled by 600 cocks in suits.

The only power fans have is to walk away. Which we don't want to do.

People are only controlled because they don't want to think for themselves. They would much rather be brain dead and let somebody else think for them.

Of course, it doesn't actually have to be that way. People just accept it.

[hibeeleicester]

I'd be embarrassed to admit to having someone so illiterate on my FB:cb

Removed... :cb

[Part/Time Supporter]

They manage it easily in the english championship, they also have both FA and League cups. It can be done.

Games are very rarely postponed in England, even in lower divisions. Two seasons ago you had teams in the SPL going over a month without playing due to the weather. 44 league dates is possible in Scotland, but it removes almost all slack for bad weather and/or clubs progressing in Europe (no laughing at the back please).

[blackpoolhibs]

Games are very rarely postponed in England, even in lower divisions. Two seasons ago you had teams in the SPL going over a month without playing due to the weather. 44 league dates is possible in Scotland, but it removes almost all slack for bad weather and/or clubs progressing in Europe (no laughing at the back please).

Fair point.:agree:

[ScottB]

Really sick of them describing this as Rangers being kicked down the leagues.

RANGERS ARE NOT IN ANY LEAGUE. I felt bold capitals might attract the attentions of Traynor and co, should they wander by between smacking their own knuckles off a keyboard. Actually no, he doesn't need one, he just copies and pastes out of the newest email he's gotten from Rangers PR...

So yes, they aren't in any league, nor have any right to be in one. They tried to get straight into the SPL and rightly failed. Now they will try and get into the SFL.

In the long run, this nonsense of portraying this as being all the 'diddy' clubs ganging up to put the boot into Rangers will serve only to put a bigger divide, and more hatred into our game. The media has been outright lying to the Rangers fans for years, yet they haven't learned the lesson. Telling them everything was rosy when they were headed for the blender, now telling them they've done nothing wrong and it's all the other clubs fault strikes me as heading us towards nothing good in future. One day New Rangers will return to the SPL, but thanks to the media, it will not be one that has weathered its hard times and returned ready to participate, it will be one spitting with even more rage than before, with an almighty chip on its shoulder.

[Famous_Fifer]

I sincerely wish he allowed comments on his blog, if only to see what people think of his 'journalism'

Looks like the Daily Rancid has disabled the comments section on all stories to do with newhun. Looks like they can't handle people commenting on their amateur journalism.

[Twa Cairpets]

Worth getting some Hibs momentum behind a new twitter account thats got 400 followers in half an hour of thereabouts. @spltogether #spltogether

[Baldy Foghorn]

Fat blob Traynor to-day

But is it really the will of the people or the ignorant views of semi-literate gangs of keyboard clatterers?


Fat git, I'm not a violent person really but I defo would make an exception with him


http://blogs.dailyrecord.co.uk/jimtraynor/2012/07/no-to-rangers-newco-means-spl.html?utm_source=feedburner&utm_medium=feed&utm_campaign=Feed%3A+TheDailyRecord%2FJimTraynor+% 28The+Daily+Record+-+Jim+Traynor%29

Aye no bother Jim, Rangers leave creditors high and dry to the tune of tens of millions, and have cheated our system and national game for decades.....Yet the fans/clubs who cite sporting integrity are knuckle draggers.....Christ I thought our media could not get any lower, but you have managed succinctly, well done Jim....Lets all power high five you and bow to your superior knowledge.....

[Spike Mandela]

Aye no bother Jim, Rangers leave creditors high and dry to the tune of tens of millions, and have cheated our system and national game for decades.....Yet the fans/clubs who cite sporting integrity are knuckle draggers.....Christ I thought our media could not get any lower, but you have managed succinctly, well done Jim....Lets all power high five you and bow to your superior knowledge.....

Traynor is struggling to come to terms with the fact that he and his paper are fast becoming an irrelevance in modern sports news and comment.

We are seeing the last throes of a dinosaur.

[HibbyDave]

IF the loss of Der Hun to the world of scottish Football is to be believed at £15 million, what is the cost of running all three governing bodies (SFA,SPL, SFL) who currently could not run a menage?

If we simply bin at least two of these bodies then there must be savings to scottish football overall?

[green glory]

The vote on Newhun's entry (or not) into SFL1 has been brought forward to 10th. Something to do with folks being busy on the 12th with bowler hats and sashes I think.

In order to even think about an application to join any league in Scotland though, more rules will have to ignored.

https://twitter.com/spartansfc/status/220604853544685568

[green glory]

The vote on Newhun's entry (or not) into SFL1 has been brought forward to 10th. Something to do with folks being busy on the 12th with bowler hats and sashes I think.

In order to even think about an application to join any league in Scotland though, more rules will have to ignored.

https://twitter.com/spartansfc/status/220604853544685568

My apologies, it's now been changed to the 13th. Jeezus!

[Lungo--Drom]

More than likely exactly the reason he doesn't allow comments. There would be a constant stream of people commenting on his **** 'journalism' and he is probably just intelligent enough to know that.


I sincerely wish he allowed comments on his blog, if only to see what people think of his 'journalism'

[Spike Mandela]

My apologies, it's now been changed to the 13th. Jeezus!

Friday 13th! Aggggggggghhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh! Armageddon, disaster, meltdown, end of the world, doomsday aggggggggghhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh:panic::panic::panic::f aint:

[Newry Hibs]

My apologies, it's now been changed to the 13th. Jeezus!

I've obviously missed something here - but are there 2 SFL votes?

First one on 13th where all current SFL1 clubs only decide if newco can get into SFL1? (minus Dunf or Dundee). Does this need a 5-4 majority? Surely with all the clubs statements it's a 'no'.


Second one (only if first is a 'no') at a later date to decide if newco enter SFL at all (i.e. SFL3) or indeed another club is preferred?

[CropleyWasGod]

I've obviously missed something here - but are there 2 SFL votes?

First one on 13th where all current SFL1 clubs only decide if newco can get into SFL1? (minus Dunf or Dundee). Does this need a 5-4 majority? Surely with all the clubs statements it's a 'no'.


Second one (only if first is a 'no') at a later date to decide if newco enter SFL at all (i.e. SFL3) or indeed another club is preferred?


Vote 1 is all SFL clubs (except Dundee) voting on whether Sevco can come into SFL1. It needs >50% to be passed, ie 15 votes. Thus far, 11/12 clubs are voting against.

Vote 2, if needed, is to consider all new applications to the SFL for the vacant place.

[jgl07]

I've obviously missed something here - but are there 2 SFL votes?

First one on 13th where all current SFL1 clubs only decide if newco can get into SFL1? (minus Dunf or Dundee). Does this need a 5-4 majority? Surely with all the clubs statements it's a 'no'.

Second one (only if first is a 'no') at a later date to decide if newco enter SFL at all (i.e. SFL3) or indeed another club is preferred?

They have no vacancy at the moment and therefore no opportunity for other clubs to apply.

I assumed that it was all SFL clubs that took the decision.

[Crazyhorse]

Friday 13th! Aggggggggghhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh! Armageddon, disaster, meltdown, end of the world, doomsday aggggggggghhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh:panic::panic::panic::f aint:

Maybe on the assumption that the orcs will be too hung over after celebrating religious and political liberty for all to cause any 'social unrest' the day after the glorious 12th.

I hope that's not the real reason.

[Newry Hibs]

Thanks CWG & Jgl07. I'm away on my hols for a week, so God knows how it's going to take to catch up with all this. It's about an hour a day every day and the bosses are wondering why the work rate has dropped.

[VickMackie]

Worth getting some Hibs momentum behind a new twitter account thats got 400 followers in half an hour of thereabouts. @spltogether #spltogether

Had a look at this and whilst I've just followed I believe the stance should be pro SPL and selling the benefits rather than the negative view we don't need gers.

It's the same thing but should be cast in a positive light rather than just anti rangers, IMO.

That's why I don't sign a lot of the petitions that go around.

[silverhibee]

Aye no bother Jim, Rangers leave creditors high and dry to the tune of tens of millions, and have cheated our system and national game for decades.....Yet the fans/clubs who cite sporting integrity are knuckle draggers.....Christ I thought our media could not get any lower, but you have managed succinctly, well done Jim....Lets all power high five you and bow to your superior knowledge.....


Just read that and a we thought came in to my head, may be a lot of tom kite i am thinking here, but here goes, McGregor and Ferguson both embarrass the Scottish Nation and should never have played for there country again after the way they conducted them self's in a hotel and then at the national Stadium during a Scotland game, now both were Rangers players at the time, one is back playing for Scotland and the other turned us down after Potter done his hardest to get him back in to the Scotland squad, :rolleyes: now had that been a Motherwell Kille Hibs etc player doing that i am sure that would have been the end of there national football, do/did Rangers have that kind of power in the SFA that made sure these two players got back in to the Scotland squad and if i remember right even though the press said it was disgusting behaviour regarding there two fingered salute(which was allegedly aimed at the press :rolleyes:) the press still wanted them back in the squad and made a big deal about it, sure Jim Traynor had plenty to say about it.

Now Steven Fletcher who has no connections with Rangers at all, decides to text an administrator at the SFA to ask to be excluded from a game as his own team (Wolves) had important games coming up and asked to be excluded for that reason, Potter took the huff and has now basically said he will not play for Scotland again while Potter is in charge.

Here is my thoughts, imagine if Fletcher was playing for Rangers, do you think he would still be excluded from the Scotland squad, no chance he would be straight back in to the squad, and yet a guy who has just had a £10m price tag slapped on him cannot get a sniff at the Scotland team. :rolleyes:

It seems the SFA will do anything for Rangers and probably celtc too, but for everyone else there is a different set of rules for them.

[Baldy Foghorn]

Just read that and a we thought came in to my head, may be a lot of tom kite i am thinking here, but here goes, McGregor and Ferguson both embarrass the Scottish Nation and should never have played for there country again after the way they conducted them self's in a hotel and then at the national Stadium during a Scotland game, now both were Rangers players at the time, one is back playing for Scotland and the other turned us down after Potter done his hardest to get him back in to the Scotland squad, :rolleyes: now had that been a Motherwell Kille Hibs etc player doing that i am sure that would have been the end of there national football, do/did Rangers have that kind of power in the SFA that made sure these two players got back in to the Scotland squad and if i remember right even though the press said it was disgusting behaviour regarding there two fingered salute(which was allegedly aimed at the press :rolleyes:) the press still wanted them back in the squad and made a big deal about it, sure Jim Traynor had plenty to say about it.

Now Steven Fletcher who has no connections with Rangers at all, decides to text an administrator at the SFA to ask to be excluded from a game as his own team (Wolves) had important games coming up and asked to be excluded for that reason, Potter took the huff and has now basically said he will not play for Scotland again while Potter is in charge.

Here is my thoughts, imagine if Fletcher was playing for Rangers, do you think he would still be excluded from the Scotland squad, no chance he would be straight back in to the squad, and yet a guy who has just had a £10m price tag slapped on him cannot get a sniff at the Scotland team. :rolleyes:

It seems the SFA will do anything for Rangers and probably celtc too, but for everyone else there is a different set of rules for them.

I think we all thought that silv, however the reality is now the SFA are actually showing it to be the case....Scottish Football = Old Firm, the rest don't matter.....

PS sent STV Edinburgh news an email about Derhun being reported on constantly... Bog standard reply about how Scottish Football was changing and it was mainstream news

[givescotlandfreedom]

We now know without any doubt, those at the top of OUR game are corrupt. Where does this corruption stop, every dodgy decision that goes against us now, every penalty?

The seed of doubt has gone, we know the SPL and the SFA will fight to give rantic preferential treatment. Could referee's and linesmen be next on their radar, make sure both teams win, we cant have any teams beating their favorites, am i wrong or too late?

They employ Craig Thomson...

[green glory]

I've obviously missed something here - but are there 2 SFL votes?

First one on 13th where all current SFL1 clubs only decide if newco can get into SFL1? (minus Dunf or Dundee). Does this need a 5-4 majority? Surely with all the clubs statements it's a 'no'.

Second one (only if first is a 'no') at a later date to decide if newco enter SFL at all (i.e. SFL3) or indeed another club is preferred?

I don't think the SFL have specified if the vote on SFL3 is also taking place on the 13th. Can they seriously adjourn again in the event if a no vote for SFL1?

As I posted previously, Newco doesn't meet the criteria for an SFA license. Any duscussions on where they will play should be academic unless the SFA fails to apply it's own rules AGAIN. They didn't meet the financial criteria last year. Will the SFA repeat the error?

[CropleyWasGod]

I don't think the SFL have specified if the vote on SFL3 is also taking place on the 13th. Can they seriously adjourn again in the event if a no vote for SFL1?

As I posted previously, Newco doesn't meet the criteria for an SFA license. Any duscussions on where they will play should be academic unless the SFA fails to apply it's own rules AGAIN. They didn't meet the financial criteria last year. Will the SFA repeat the error?

They would have to, I reckon. Otherwise, it would be unfair on those other teams who may wish to apply for the vacancy.

[SJNB Hibby]

I presume Rangers are not competing in the U-19 League next year? Moot point if all the kids are in the first team I suppose:wink:

[RyeSloan]

I presume Rangers are not competing in the U-19 League next year? Moot point if all the kids are in the first team I suppose:wink:


Even more moot when its an U21 league :greengrin

[Onion]

I was mystified that Regan could put out that interview, which on a first reading (and indeed second reading) is astonishing.

However, for the sake of debate (and because I admit to being a bit of a Regan apologist as I'm impressed with other stuff he has done for the grassroots of the game), I think it warrants further analysis:

1) He doesnt say that Rangers need to be in because of an affection for or allegiance to Rangers. I dont think he has any. It isnt a case that we need Rangers to help Rnagers, it is that he belives we need Rangers for the sake of everyone else. (I dont agree with him, but thats opinion).
2) Assuming the above, it doesnt indicate corruption at all.
3) Assuming he believes that the financial implications of no hun would result in the administration/liquidation of several member clubs, he presumably has a duty to work in th einterest of those clubs if he genuinely believes them to be at risk.
4) The "social unrest" related to no hun, not div3 hun. Stupid thing to say either way, bit not scaremongering to ge tthem to div 1
5) I agree with the tribalism element. Of course thats what football is.

I believe he is wrong - I'd stress that. I think allowing the hun back into div 1 will absolutely kill the game because of the strength of feeling, but I can see where he is coming from when you take the understandable distaste for hundom out of the consideration process.

The two main problems I have with Regan's statement are:

1. Stating in no uncertain terms that the game in Scotland is DEAD if Sevco don't get put into Div 1 has joined him at the hip to that event. If Sevco do not get elected into Div1, Regan will have to resign. We simply cannot have someone who believes that there is no positive future for the game in charge of the SFA. No company, organisation or club in the world would accept that.

2. Regan's desperate comments suggests that he has simply FAILED to convince the majority of the 30 SFL Chairmen of the need to place Sevco in DIV1. If the arguments are so compelling (as he's suggesting) or they held his views in high regard, then there would be no debate the SFL would be going along with this. The FACT is Regan and Doncaster have completely cocked this up. You win hearts and minds through logic, reason and persuasion but Regan & Doncaster have reverted to threats, emotive language, exaggeration and unsubstantiated claims - which basically means they have already lost the argument.

[Piqué]

http://www.stenhousemuirfc.com/news/2012/07/05/790/

Stenhousemuir will vote yes to newco

[s.a.m]

Stenhousemuir have issued a statement. They're opting for Div 1 (or at least, that's what he implies)

Rangers Newco We refer to the above and take this opportunity to make a statement on behalf of the club. Firstly we appreciate that there have been numerous calls for us to produce such a statement specifically outlining our voting intentions with regard to Rangers Newco entering the SFL. We have been of the opinion that we did not wish to issue a statement when a) we had no actual proposal and therefore no decision to make, and b) more importantly, until we were in full receipt of all the facts. We are now in a more enlightened position.
Many clubs have made statements, some shorter than others. We believe that in this statement, we have set out clearly the options that are currently facing the game with regard to Rangers Newco and the impact this situation will have on the game.
As a Board of Directors, our first priority is the wellbeing of Stenhousemuir Football Club. Therefore, in assessing the various options, we have evaluated each in the following order of priority, a) the impact on Stenhousemuir Football Club, b) the impact on the Scottish Football League (SFL)c) the impact on the overall game in Scotland including the impact on the Scottish Premier League (SPL). Our statement therefore is lengthy but we felt you would appreciate this level of detail given the complexities.
As you will be aware, the club was represented at a meeting on Tuesday 3rd July at Hampden with our fellow SFL members. This meeting was called purely to provide members with a thorough account of the facts and presentations were delivered by David Longmuir (Chief Executive of the Scottish Football League), Neil Doncaster (Chief Executive of the Scottish Premier League) and Stewart Regan (Chief Executive of the Scottish FA). It was not a call to vote on any proposals despite media suggestions to the contrary.
David Longmuir presented us with the options from an SFL standpoint but the main factual presentation in terms of finance was delivered in detail by the SPL, information which was verified by the other associations. The financial information set out by the SPL summarized the impact on the SPL clubs firstly and the subsequent impact on the SFL clubs.
In essence there were two main options outlined in terms of their financial implications:
1. Rangers Newco playing in Division 3 of the SFL
The financial impact of this would be:

Loss of Sky broadcasting payments of circa £10m/season
Loss of ESPN broadcasting payments of circa £5m/season
Loss of Sportfive broadcasting payments of £2.7m/season (overseas broadcasters)
Loss of sponsorship of £1m/season
Additional new broadcasting deal with income of £3m/season
The net loss of income therefore would total £15.7m/season. The above is on the basis that each of the contracts have termination clauses should either of the Old Firm not be involved in the SPL.
The financial effect on most SPL clubs would be a reduced income of around £1m/season. More importantly for us, the settlement agreement payment (the annual payment from the SPL to the SFL agreed when the SPL was established) of approximately £2m would not be paid. The reason this would not be paid would be due to the reduced SPL income, the money to meet this obligation would no longer be there.
2.Rangers Newco playing in the second tier of Scottish Football.
(This would be either Division 1 of the SFL or a newly formed SPL 2)
The financial impact of this would be:

Sky and ESPN have committed to retain their deals but include Rangers Newco content during the season
Loss of Sportfive broadcasting payments of £2.7m/season (no requirement if no Old Firm games)
Loss of sponsorship of £1m/season
The loss of income therefore would total £3.7m/season. The SPL confirmed that in this situation the settlement payment between the SPL and the SFL would be paid.
Should Rangers Newco be in Division 1 of the SFL, in order to satisfy Sky and ESPN, the SPL would make a payment to the SFL of £1m/season for the broadcasting rights for Rangers Newco matches for as long as Rangers Newco remain in Division 1. This therefore was not a payment for accepting Rangers Newco into the SFL division 1 but instead a straight business deal to purchase SFL broadcasting content.
Subsequently there was a lengthy discussion on the impact of these options and we take this opportunity to set these out together with the likely impact on our club. Again, we have evaluated each option in the following priority, a)the impact on Stenhousemuir FC, b) the impact on the SFL, and c) the impact on the SPL and the game in general.
Rangers Newco in Division 3
The impact for Stenhousemuir FC of this option would be the loss of the SFL central payment aligned to the SPL settlement payment. That would total £50,000/season. This is a significant amount of money for the football club and we would have to find ways to cut our costs to cover this shortfall. Given that we have made commitments to playing staff for this season the playing budget cannot be reduced, therefore, the only option open to us to make significant savings would be in scrapping our youth system to release the pitch for hire to the general public, together with a reduction in staff who oversee our community programme.
Dependent on the success of hiring the pitch we would potentially reduce the playing budget in year 2. We are also unclear on the impact of the changes on East Stirlingshire FC which may affect their ability to meet the hire costs of Ochilview.
The impact for the Scottish Football League will vary from club to club and it is clear from the meeting that some clubs would be unable to accommodate this reduction in income and others would reduce their costs in a similar manner to us. Many clubs suggested their youth development element would be a most likely casualty. Some smaller clubs suggested this reduction would lead to their inability to meet their costs for the season with administration a possibility.
The impact on the SPL clubs is well documented with a number of them admitting they would move to administration very quickly as their debts to the banks in particular could not be serviced. Whilst this may be of lesser significance to our supporters, it is reasonable to assume that the standard of player in our game will reduce significantly, leading to further and future erosion of TV contracts and sponsorship. Again, youth development expenditure was seen as an area for cost savings.
Rangers Newco in Division 1
The impact for Stenhousemuir FC would potentially be financially positive given the additional media rights payment and the retained settlement agreement.
The impact for the Scottish Football League would potentially be positive from a financial position given the media rights payments. However, it is acknowledged that the implications of supporters not returning to the game due to the adverse reaction of this could have a financial and lasting impact.
The impact for the Scottish Premier League would be a reduction in their income of approximately 30%, a reduction which the SPL appear ready to accept and accommodate.
Rangers Newco in SPL2
This option is less clear and although it was not used as a threat, it is a genuine option for the SPL. A limited number of clubs would be invited from the SFL to join the SPL2 which would incorporate Rangers Newco. It was clear from the meeting and subsequent discussions that if the SFL clubs were faced with this option then a sufficient number of full time clubs could take up this invitation to form a viable SPL2 despite the many statements being made by clubs who would most likely be invited.
In this scenario the settlement payment from the SPL to the SFL would be reduced proportionately to the number of clubs who have left the SFL. On the surface therefore it may be assumed that there would be no reduced benefit to Stenhousemuir FC. However, the reduced payment would be a serious reduction in income for the SFL and threaten its ability to cover its running costs. In addition, the SFL would be unable to organise and run the Scottish League Cup, further reducing the SFL income. It is unclear what the actual financial impact on the club would be but is expected to be at or greater than the impact of Rangers Newco in Division 3. Our need therefore to reduce our running costs as set out in the Division 3 scenario would be similar. In football terms, if Stenhousemuir was not part of the new SPL2 which is almost certain, then the club would in effect drop down to playing in the third tier of Scottish football.

Part 2 follows.....

[s.a.m]

Stenhousemuir part 2:

The impact on the Scottish Football League could potentially lead to its demise. It would be very difficult to retain the organisation as it stands and ultimately would lead to some new structure or league being agreed, potentially with the existing non-league organisations. Should this happen then the implications for Stenhousemuir FC would eventually to be part of another league structure. The impact on the SPL would appear to be minimal other than agreeing a new payment regime with the SPL2 clubs.
The meeting was then addressed by Stewart Regan. He set out the SFA position very clearly. As the governing body they considered that the punishment forRangers Newco needed to be significant. The punishment they are proposing of relegation from the SPL, a one year transfer embargo, a significant fine and the related EUFA 3 year ban from Europe was fair and just. This did not include any subsequent punishments which may or may not be raised re the dual contracts enquiry.
Due to the financial implications, the Scottish FA stated that they cannot allow Rangers Newco to be relegated to Division 3, given the likely ramifications for the game including a number of clubs either moving to administration and potentially subsequent liquidation as well as the impact on the playing standards etc which would emanate from reduced investment. Scottish Football would ‘wither on the vine’ and the Scottish FA could not, in their position, allow that to happen.
The SFA stance is that Rangers Newco moving to Division 1 is absolutely the only decision to be made but that it must come with a resultant list of structural changes in the league set up including:

Merging the two league bodies (SPL and SFL) into one new league
Newly structured governance to a more equitable approach
Potential new payment distribution model
Introduction of play-offs into the top division
This would lead to a better future for the game and potentially a stronger overall position from that previous to the start of this episode.
Should the SFL vote not to accept Rangers Newco into Division 1, the Scottish FA would expect the SPL 2 proposals to be tabled. Whilst this is not the preferred option of the Scottish FA it would be the most likely outcome. In this situation however the Scottish FA would allow Rangers Newco current appeal against sanctions to be heard by the appellate committee.
With the Scottish FA’s position fully laid out it was evident that some of the options which were under consideration would not be supported by them and in fact limited our ability to affect the final outcome.
In reality therefore the only decision open to us and the other clubs is to a) accept Rangers Newco into the SFL, or b) refuse Rangers Newco admittance to the SFL. If accepted then Rangers Newco would be in Division 1. If not accepted into Division 1, it is apparent that SPL 2 will be the outcome.
Our view
The Board members have therefore discussed the above options. We have also taken into consideration the comments and views put forward by the Trust and our supporters. These comments were very effectively asserted at the meeting, similar as they were to the majority of other clubs.
In deciding how to move forward and given the two straightforward options now available, the club does not feel any decision should be based on ‘punishing’ any other football clubs; that is neither our role nor our priority. Instead, we believe we have a duty to move forward with whichever option we believe will be in the best interests of Stenhousemuir Football Club. In this situation and having considered the consequences for the club primarily, but also that of the many other clubs who would suffer significantly, we will support Rangers Newco joining the SFL on the strict proviso that the various elements of restructuring and merging of the league are agreed to our satisfaction. For the reasons stated above, we would anticipate that the Rangers Newco would be entering at Div 1.
We have met as a board formally on two occasions to discuss this in depth and there have been numerous other communications between Directors. Be assured that the implications for the club represent an honest assessment of the scenarios and are not over dramatised or overstated.

We are a strong club with our own initiatives and identity which would be heavily impacted by any other outcome. However, the positives of this can be a stronger and more equitable league structure going forward and you have our assurance that we will apply every pressure to the authorities to achieve this outcome.

Bill Darroch
Chairman

[Piqué]

Stenhousemuir part 2:

The impact on the Scottish Football League could potentially lead to its demise. It would be very difficult to retain the organisation as it stands and ultimately would lead to some new structure or league being agreed, potentially with the existing non-league organisations. Should this happen then the implications for Stenhousemuir FC would eventually to be part of another league structure. The impact on the SPL would appear to be minimal other than agreeing a new payment regime with the SPL2 clubs.
The meeting was then addressed by Stewart Regan. He set out the SFA position very clearly. As the governing body they considered that the punishment forRangers Newco needed to be significant. The punishment they are proposing of relegation from the SPL, a one year transfer embargo, a significant fine and the related EUFA 3 year ban from Europe was fair and just. This did not include any subsequent punishments which may or may not be raised re the dual contracts enquiry.
Due to the financial implications, the Scottish FA stated that they cannot allow Rangers Newco to be relegated to Division 3, given the likely ramifications for the game including a number of clubs either moving to administration and potentially subsequent liquidation as well as the impact on the playing standards etc which would emanate from reduced investment. Scottish Football would ‘wither on the vine’ and the Scottish FA could not, in their position, allow that to happen.
The SFA stance is that Rangers Newco moving to Division 1 is absolutely the only decision to be made but that it must come with a resultant list of structural changes in the league set up including:

Merging the two league bodies (SPL and SFL) into one new league
Newly structured governance to a more equitable approach
Potential new payment distribution model
Introduction of play-offs into the top division
This would lead to a better future for the game and potentially a stronger overall position from that previous to the start of this episode.
Should the SFL vote not to accept Rangers Newco into Division 1, the Scottish FA would expect the SPL 2 proposals to be tabled. Whilst this is not the preferred option of the Scottish FA it would be the most likely outcome. In this situation however the Scottish FA would allow Rangers Newco current appeal against sanctions to be heard by the appellate committee.
With the Scottish FA’s position fully laid out it was evident that some of the options which were under consideration would not be supported by them and in fact limited our ability to affect the final outcome.
In reality therefore the only decision open to us and the other clubs is to a) accept Rangers Newco into the SFL, or b) refuse Rangers Newco admittance to the SFL. If accepted then Rangers Newco would be in Division 1. If not accepted into Division 1, it is apparent that SPL 2 will be the outcome.
Our view
The Board members have therefore discussed the above options. We have also taken into consideration the comments and views put forward by the Trust and our supporters. These comments were very effectively asserted at the meeting, similar as they were to the majority of other clubs.
In deciding how to move forward and given the two straightforward options now available, the club does not feel any decision should be based on ‘punishing’ any other football clubs; that is neither our role nor our priority. Instead, we believe we have a duty to move forward with whichever option we believe will be in the best interests of Stenhousemuir Football Club. In this situation and having considered the consequences for the club primarily, but also that of the many other clubs who would suffer significantly, we will support Rangers Newco joining the SFL on the strict proviso that the various elements of restructuring and merging of the league are agreed to our satisfaction. For the reasons stated above, we would anticipate that the Rangers Newco would be entering at Div 1.
We have met as a board formally on two occasions to discuss this in depth and there have been numerous other communications between Directors. Be assured that the implications for the club represent an honest assessment of the scenarios and are not over dramatised or overstated.

We are a strong club with our own initiatives and identity which would be heavily impacted by any other outcome. However, the positives of this can be a stronger and more equitable league structure going forward and you have our assurance that we will apply every pressure to the authorities to achieve this outcome.

Bill Darroch
Chairman
Beat you today :wink:

[s.a.m]

Beat you today :wink:

:greengrin


I'd have been there first if my first attempt hadn't been rejected for being too long :grr:

[VickMackie]

I just read the division 3 part. Basically a yea vote to keep their 50k they're being blackmailed for.

[mayo hibee]

Summary of Stenhousemuir press release:

"We have been bullied into accepting Sevco as a new club into a division two levels above where they should be. We are willing to allow this to be done to us and are not interested in standing up for ourselves or sporting integrity."


No mention of calculating how much they could have gained from hosting Sevco twice in their deliberations either.

[Matty_Jack04]

Summary of Stenhousemuir press release:

"We have been bullied into accepting Sevco as a new club into a division two levels above where they should be. We are willing to allow this to be done to us and are not interested in standing up for ourselves or sporting integrity."


No mention of calculating how much they could have gained from hosting Sevco twice in their deliberations either.

My thoughts exactly

[CropleyWasGod]

Summary of Stenhousemuir press release:

"We have been bullied into accepting Sevco as a new club into a division two levels above where they should be. We are willing to allow this to be done to us and are not interested in standing up for ourselves or sporting integrity."


No mention of calculating how much they could have gained from hosting Sevco twice in their deliberations either.

No chance that they might actually believe what they are saying, then?

[Emerald]

http://www.stenhousemuirfc.com/news/2012/07/05/790/

Stenhousemuir will vote yes to newco


This is a disgrace, they are being blackmailed by the SFA and SPL, its a joke.

I suspect and hope he is going to have a very full in box. :agree:

[marinello59]

Summary of Stenhousemuir press release:

"We have been bullied into accepting Sevco as a new club into a division two levels above where they should be. We are willing to allow this to be done to us and are not interested in standing up for ourselves or sporting integrity."


No mention of calculating how much they could have gained from hosting Sevco twice in their deliberations either.

The problem should never have been dumped on them in the first place. If the SPL and SFA didn't have the gumption to deal with it I wouldn't blame any lower league team taking the chance to profit from the situation. Sporting Integrity was flouted in the SPL, not their league where every single penny is a prisoner. It's between the SFL clubs and their fans now.

[JeMeSouviens]

In reality therefore the only decision open to us and the other clubs is to a) accept Rangers Newco into the SFL, or b) refuse Rangers Newco admittance to the SFL. If accepted then Rangers Newco would be in Division 1. If not accepted into Division 1, it is apparent that SPL 2 will be the outcome.

No it's not. At least 7 SFL clubs would have to agree to join and at least 8 of the existing SPL clubs (I'm sure it should actually be 11 but let's assume another Herculean rule-bending attempt from the DonkMeister) would have to agree to change the structure of the SPL.

Why are they so sure they'll manage to get those votes given how well they've done so far?

[JeMeSouviens]

The problem should never have been dumped on them in the first place. If the SPL and SFA didn't have the gumption to deal with it I wouldn't blame any lower league team taking the chance to profit from the situation. Sporting Integrity was flouted in the SPL, not their league where every single penny is a prisoner. It's between the SFL clubs and their fans now.

No, it really isn't. It's between those who would see corruption enshrined in Scottish football versus those who still cling to the last vestiges of hope that it's a proper sport.

They cannot get this *******isation of the game through without coercion from the SPL clubs in the shape of threatening not to pay the SFL settlement.

[EuanH78]

This is a disgrace, they are being blackmailed by the SFA and SPL, its a joke.

I suspect and hope he is going to have a very full in box. :agree:

Absolutely.

The Stenny statement is an instructive one - At least they bothered to break everything down properly rather than with bullet points. Seems to be missing some minor comment though.

On what grounds can the SPL withhold payments to the SFL clubs (that the SPL does not have the ability to pay at the end of the season is irrelevant, the SPL itself must be put into administration surely?) A flawed business model from the outset so should be scrapped and started again.

It does show why Doncaster and Reagan are so insistent on the Division 1 option but that does not excuse the threats and intimidation. Assuming ZombieHuns get into division 3 Stenhousmuir could expect 2 home gates versus them to cover the shortfall.

[StevieC]

http://www.stenhousemuirfc.com/news/2012/07/05/790/

Stenhousemuir will vote yes to newco

So based on that statement they are voting YES based on the Doncaster/Regan threat to renege on their legal, and morale, obligation to pay the SFL £2m a season.

Rather than take the SPL/SFA to task on this threat, and their legal obligations, they have rolled over to get their tummy tickled!

To be honest it smacks of a boardroom full of hun apologists, rather than a genuine concern for the Scottish game.

I can see the SFL vote developing into an East/West divide to be honest.

I think that these SPL threats to the SFL need to be properly aired in public. How can the SPL get away with saying they WONT pay their dues? Surely if they've got money, which they will have, then they have to pay their bills first, before dividing up the remainder for the SPL clubs? If they fail to pay then surely the SFL can simply take them to court for payment? What are the SPL going to do other than pay it? Go into administration??

[lord bunberry]

Summary of Stenhousemuir press release:

"We have been bullied into accepting Sevco as a new club into a division two levels above where they should be. We are willing to allow this to be done to us and are not interested in standing up for ourselves or sporting integrity."


No mention of calculating how much they could have gained from hosting Sevco twice in their deliberations either.


its a disgrace that these clubs are being put in this position by the spl this should have been dealt with months ago. I now think that rangers will end up in division 1 and every spl chairman should hang there head in shame

[CropleyWasGod]

its a disgrace that these clubs are being put in this position by the spl this should have been dealt with months ago. I know think that rangers will end up in division 1 and every spl chairman should hang there head in shame

On what grounds? Thus far, the score is 11-1 against that happening. It only needs 3 more clubs to say No.

[...WentToMowAnSPL]

Can someone tell me why the broadcasters are smart enough to insert clauses or agree to terms that name two specific clubs as permanently part of the top tier and we have numpties in charge of sporting governance who don't see a problem with this picture....


Who the f**** agreed and voted on those deals sold Scottish football down the river

Imagine if the BBC walked away from Wimbledon if the top seeds didn't get through

Jesus wept

[Waxy]

If they are allowed to enter div 1 then i'm boycotting sky tv.
They're causing alot of this rubbish.
who wants to watch a pantomime league anyway.
Scottish football RIP

[lord bunberry]

On what grounds? Thus far, the score is 11-1 against that happening. It only needs 3 more clubs to say No.

I get the feeling some clubs will change there minds the nearer we get to the vote. Reagan is on ssn right now making threats about financial meltdown the pressure is going to cranked up in the next week the threats will get worse and teams with little to gain but plenty to lose will start to wonder whats the point. Its only my opinion and i hope im wrong but after reading stenhousemuirs statement i cant really blame them for voting yes to newco in division 1

[Hibstrooper]

If they are allowed to enter div 1 then i'm boycotting sky tv.
They're causing alot of this rubbish.
who wants to watch a pantomime league anyway.
Scottish football RIP

:agree: We are at the mercy of the broadcasters. I said a few pages back though it should be the bbc we are after though for a proportionate share of the £75m they spend a year on English football given we pay the same license fee.

I currently pay about £90 a month to sky which I'll cancel if rangers go into 1st

[EuanH78]

:agree: We are at the mercy of the broadcasters. I said a few pages back though it should be the bbc we are after though for a proportionate share of the £75m they spend a year on English football given we pay the same license fee.

I currently pay about £90 a month to sky which I'll cancel if rangers go into 1st

Sky Help Team ‏@SkyHelpTeam (https://twitter.com/#%21/SkyHelpTeam) @tambritton (https://twitter.com/#%21/tambritton) @StewartRegan (https://twitter.com/#%21/StewartRegan) We have no plans to pull out of covering the Scottish Premier League.

[JeMeSouviens]

On what grounds? Thus far, the score is 11-1 against that happening. It only needs 3 more clubs to say No.

A lot of the 11 were before the alleged financial meltdown was laid out and in particular before the SFL clubs were threatened with the non-payment of the SPL settlement. Based on statements since then I would say we have:

Defo No: Raith, Dunfermline, Cowdenbeath, Morton

Lean No: Clyde, Falkirk, Livingston

Defo Yes: Stenhousemuir

Lean Yes: Hamilton, Partick

[Leishy1995]

Another club that has revealed their intentions. Not really sure about the rest.

[frazeHFC]

A board outside of a shop in Dunfermline said that their chairman was for Rangers in the SFL1.

[Leishy1995]

The SFL are looking like they're gonna crumble to them now.

[degenerated]

Fat blob Traynor to-day

But is it really the will of the people or the ignorant views of semi-literate gangs of keyboard clatterers?


Fat git, I'm not a violent person really but I defo would make an exception with him


http://blogs.dailyrecord.co.uk/jimtraynor/2012/07/no-to-rangers-newco-means-spl.html?utm_source=feedburner&utm_medium=feed&utm_campaign=Feed%3A+TheDailyRecord%2FJimTraynor+% 28The+Daily+Record+-+Jim+Traynor%29

He's just bitter cause at best he's going to end up being a first division correspondent and at worse he'll end up like that boy that used to read out the highland league scores on radio Scotland years back, just less amusing.

[fife hfc]

If you read their statement I don't blame them. The shocking bullying and threats have left clubs like Stenny no choice and they can't take risks like the bigger clubs.

[Waxy]

Hibs
Hearts
Aberdeen
Dundee utd
St Mirren
Motherwell
St Johnstone
Ross Co
ICT

Should all resign from the SPL and ask to join the SFL.

Leave the other 3 (plus a couple of the above perhaps) to play in the funny handshake league by themselves.

To say i am fuming is an understatement.

[Hibercelona]

If you read their statement I don't blame them. The shocking bullying and threats have left clubs like Stenny no choice and they can't take risks like the bigger clubs.

But what risks?

They've never needed Rangers before, why would they need them in their league now?

[Saorsa]

If you read their statement I don't blame them. The shocking bullying and threats have left clubs like Stenny no choice and they can't take risks like the bigger clubs.The SPL are obligated tae pay that money from what money they have. If I were running any of those clubs I'd be seeking legal advice, no giving in tae their threats and blackmail.

[s.a.m]

He's just bitter cause at best he's going to end up being a first division correspondent and at worse he'll end up like that boy that used to read out the highland league scores on radio Scotland years back, just less amusing.

Bill McAllister!

I doubt very much that Traynor has his mastery of world events and current affairs.

[StevieC]

The SPL are obligated tae pay that money from what money they have. If I were running any of those clubs I'd be seeking legal advice, no giving in tae their threats and blackmail.

:top marks

[rcarter1]

Hibs
Hearts
Aberdeen
Dundee utd
St Mirren
Motherwell
St Johnstone
Ross Co
ICT

Should all resign from the SPL and ask to join the SFL.

Leave the other 3 (plus a couple of the above perhaps) to play in the funny handshake league by themselves.

To say i am fuming is an understatement.


That would be brilliant!

[Hibrandenburg]

Can't see Rangers getting many votes from the SFL. If they were to get voted into Div1 then the teams in Divs 2&3 won't get a pop at them and therefore no pay-day if they don't play them. The teams in the lower leagues will vote them out to ensure they don't miss out on a piece of the pie.

[Stevo1875]

Hibs
Hearts
Aberdeen
Dundee utd
St Mirren
Motherwell
St Johnstone
Ross Co
ICT

Should all resign from the SPL and ask to join the SFL.

Leave the other 3 (plus a couple of the above perhaps) to play in the funny handshake league by themselves.

To say i am fuming is an understatement.

:aok:

[bighairyfaeleith]

I'm a little bit confused how a new company with no audited accounts, never mind three years worth, can get SFL membership. Has sevco ever fielded a football team in a competitive football match?

If the SFL give in, and I won't blame them if they do, we need to insist to our clubs that the SPL impose a three year ban on sevco entering the SPL. Otherwise the cheats win and they can stick there league.

[LeighLoyal]

Can't see Rangers getting many votes from the SFL. If they were to get voted into Div1 then the teams in Divs 2&3 won't get a pop at them and therefore no pay-day if they don't play them. The teams in the lower leagues will vote them out to ensure they don't miss out on a piece of the pie.I hope and prey they are barred all entry from the SFL or at the very worst enter in SFL3. Any other result is wholly unacceptable. The fact they have stopped Dundee from voting is a disgrace. Sevco, not even a football club, voted in the SPL decision on behalf of a liquidated, dead club. I still don't get the legality of that.

[Future17]

But what risks?

They've never needed Rangers before, why would they need them in their league now?

They don't. They apparently need the share of 2m which they get from the SPL.

[Kaiser1962]

I would also be concerned that whoever had struck this kind of deal in the full knowledge that Rangers were suspected, now proven by W. Dodds esquire, of fiddling the tax system. This was first brought to their attention in 2006.

Seriously how thick do you have to be to strike a deal under those circumstances?




Can someone tell me why the broadcasters are smart enough to insert clauses or agree to terms that name two specific clubs as permanently part of the top tier and we have numpties in charge of sporting governance who don't see a problem with this picture....


Who the f**** agreed and voted on those deals sold Scottish football down the river

Imagine if the BBC walked away from Wimbledon if the top seeds didn't get through

Jesus wept

[CropleyWasGod]

I'm a little bit confused how a new company with no audited accounts, never mind three years worth, can get SFL membership. Has sevco ever fielded a football team in a competitive football match?

If the SFL give in, and I won't blame them if they do, we need to insist to our clubs that the SPL impose a three year ban on sevco entering the SPL. Otherwise the cheats win and they can stick there league.again....they don't need three years audited accounts to join the SFA . They have applied for a licence from the SFA...which they need to join the SFL

[bighairyfaeleith]

again....they don't need three years audited accounts to join the SFA . They have applied for a licence from the SFA...which they need to join the SFL

So the only criteria to join the SFL that they don't have is the SFA membership?

[CropleyWasGod]

I hope and prey they are barred all entry from the SFL or at the very worst enter in SFL3. Any other result is wholly unacceptable. The fact they have stopped Dundee from voting is a disgrace. Sevco, not even a football club, voted in the SPL decision on behalf of a liquidated, dead club. I still don't get the legality of that.
Sevco didn't vote. RFC voted ...they are not in liquidation and held an SPL share

[CropleyWasGod]

So the only criteria to join the SFL that they don't have is the SFA membership?

AFAIK ....

They applied for an SFA licence last week. but there had been no decision yet.

One of the things they do need for the licence is one years approved accounts ...not audited...which they won't have

[fife hfc]

Yes legally they are due money but can they afford to take legal action if the Sfa/SPl do the dirty on them and with hold it for a significant period?

My gripe is not with them its with the blackmailers. Stenhousemuir etc are the ones who are going to suffer most from the Spl/ SFAs lack of courage.

[StevieC]

Yes legally they are due money but can they afford to take legal action if the Sfa/SPl do the dirty on them and with hold it for a significant period?

Individually some may struggle, but collectively I couldn't see it being a problem.

[greenginger]

If Sevco F C are the cash - cow they are claimed to be why don't the SFL hang on to them for a few years.

Put them into SPL 1 if they must but introduce a few new rules to the SFL set-up.

Sectarian Singing by supporters - 15 point penalty

Manager arguing with Officials - 5 point penalty

Being plain Obnoxious - 3 point penalty



These rules could ensure the survival of the SFL for the next few years by retaining Sevco F C and allow the SPL to return to a footballing competition. :greengrin

[RyeSloan]

Can someone tell me why the broadcasters are smart enough to insert clauses or agree to terms that name two specific clubs as permanently part of the top tier and we have numpties in charge of sporting governance who don't see a problem with this picture....


Who the f**** agreed and voted on those deals sold Scottish football down the river

Imagine if the BBC walked away from Wimbledon if the top seeds didn't get through

Jesus wept
Have they though? Have we seen ANY confirmation that the deal due to run to the end of the coming season has any such clause?

There has also been speculation about a re-negotiation on the extension to that deal. But again nothing confirmed from either party and therefore any loss associated with that re-negotiation can only be estimated.

The figures used in the SPL/SFA presentation seem to assume a TOTAL loss of TV revenue. I fail to see the logic in that assumption and would suggest that either ESPN or the BBC would be prepared to take weekly live Scottish Football albeit maybe at a reduced sum.

There is also the total lack of vision in terms of increasing the attraction of the league through a proper restructuring of the SFA/SPL/SFL which would surely have as it's central tenant a more competitive top league. This could quite easily be considered as a more attractive proposal to broadcasters and could outweigh any loss they see in the loss of Rangers

In summary the presentations given are clearly biased in terms of ramping up the lost revenue figures, have done nothing to confirm the loses will be immediate (i.e there is x y and z clauses in the current contract that the broadcasters have informed us they will invoke) and in no way look at alternative avenues of revenue or mitigation of loss. Total and absolute sham and the more you hear of the details the more you know it stinks.

[Saorsa]

There is also the total lack of vision in terms of increasing the attraction of the league through a proper restructuring of the SFA/SPL/SFL which would surely have as it's central tenant a more competitive top league.There is a total lack of vision period, the only vision these ***** have is OF 1 & 2 again as quickly as possible and **** everybody else. They've nae interest in a competitive league.

[NAE NOOKIE]

I don't think the SFL have specified if the vote on SFL3 is also taking place on the 13th. Can they seriously adjourn again in the event if a no vote for SFL1?

As I posted previously, Newco doesn't meet the criteria for an SFA license. Any duscussions on where they will play should be academic unless the SFA fails to apply it's own rules AGAIN. They didn't meet the financial criteria last year. Will the SFA repeat the error?

I presume this goes towards the school of thought that the newco should be denied entry to the SFL at any level. I'm sure the rules governing an SFA license could be used as a stumbling block to that.

There is an old saying ... Rules are made for the guidance of wise men and the obeyance of fools.

FWIW ... I detest the apparent move by the SPL to bully the SFL clubs into allowing a newco into the first division by threatening to withhold money the SFL is due ..... that is the sort of thinking that got us into this mess in the first place. It should be up to the SFL with no pressure from outside to decide what league to admit them to. If its the 3rd division then fine.

But to put a block on a license is bonkers.

As somebody said on here a million posts ago ... If it looks like Rangers and Smells like Rangers ...it is Rangers. Having to come back as a newco and start in Division3 I would have thought is punishment enough.

[lucky]

I can understand the financial pressure clubs are under but Rangers should go into division 3. If other clubs can't afford this then they should face similar fate as Rangers. If tv pulls the plug on Scottish football then its up to us to pull the plug on them. Murdoch and his Sky organization have held to much away over UK society for too long. It's up to us as fans to balance the threat back in favor or our game

[DH1875]

How come Dundee aren't allowed to vote but Rangers where :confused:. Another case of 1 rule for them and 1 rule for the rest of us.

[bighairyfaeleith]

[/B]
I presume this goes towards the school of thought that the newco should be denied entry to the SFL at any level. I'm sure the rules governing an SFA license could be used as a stumbling block to that.

There is an old saying ... Rules are made for the guidance of wise men and the obeyance of fools.

FWIW ... I detest the apparent move by the SPL to bully the SFL clubs into allowing a newco into the first division by threatening to withhold money the SFL is due ..... that is the sort of thinking that got us into this mess in the first place. It should be up to the SFL with no pressure from outside to decide what league to admit them to. If its the 3rd division then fine.

But to put a block on a license is bonkers.

As somebody said on here a million posts ago ... If it looks like Rangers and Smells like Rangers ...it is Rangers. Having to come back as a newco and start in Division3 I would have thought is punishment enough.

I agree, however rather than making out like div3 is terrible and div 1 would be better, the SFA should be pointing out that sevco are getting a good deal just by getting back into a professional league, not pushing for them to get into our second top league

[Saorsa]

1 rule for them and 1 rule for the rest of us.That's already patently obvious tae anybody, even blind Harry. And if there isnae a rule tae suit them yet, then they'll just make one up. :rolleyes:

[EH6 Hibby]

I personally think that Kilmarnock knew their yes vote was worthless and would anger their fans, and Stenhousemuir know fine well that Rangers are not going to get into division 1, so both teams decided not to vote against Rangers in the hope that if they fail to get into division 3 which is looking more and more likely, the Rangers fans with no team to watch will go along to watch the only teams not to vote against them.

[rcarter1]

In summary the presentations given are clearly biased in terms of ramping up the lost revenue figures, have done nothing to confirm the loses will be immediate (i.e there is x y and z clauses in the current contract that the broadcasters have informed us they will invoke) and in no way look at alternative avenues of revenue or mitigation of loss. Total and absolute sham and the more you hear of the details the more you know it stinks.[/QUOTE]

Quite right, every time Im tempted to think that Div 1 might be for the best, I think about how the fact that our 'leaders' have not even suggested any solution to lost revenue other than Sevco Div1. Until the exact details of what will happen, to whom, why, and what can be done to avert it, were not in a position to judge this properly. Ive said it before, a mortgage type loan by individual clubs or the SPL collectively could smooth the pain of lost revenue should Sevco go to Div 3. Some clubs are basically on the brink regardless, and should probably be dealing with administration or at least mass player exodus to deal with those debts.

On the other hand, we could let Sevco into the SPL (whoops...:rolleyes:), with a 25 point penalty for three seasons, and a hefty fine to be paid to all SPL clubs over a number of years (Like a few million/year for the number of years that Rangers were eventually found cheating).

Regardless of ANYTHING, Doncaster and probably Regan need to go - to be replaced by people who amongst other things know how to sign a contract..

[RyeSloan]

[/B] As somebody said on here a million posts ago ... If it looks like Rangers and Smells like Rangers ...it is Rangers. Having to come back as a newco and start in Division3 I would have thought is punishment enough.

But it's not Rangers. Rangers are soon to be liquidated. The right to play in the SPL and their SFA membership goes with them.

As someone pointed out there is no punishment here it is merely a consequence of Rangers going bust.

The newco may be taking on some of Rangers old assets but in a football and legal sense they are a new entity therefore they must be treated as one. No punishment, no retribution simply following the logical order of a team going out of business.

It transpires however the SPL and the SFA are now telling us they have built the whole of Scottish football on top of two teams and the consequence of one of those teams being removed will bring the whole house of cards down....this may or may not be true but even if it is the question surely has to be, now that we are in possession of the facts, why would anyone wish to reassemble the house of cards when that clearly implies the rest of Scottish football will be treated differently to the two 'that matter'. For the house of cards to remain stable it will necessitate an institutionalised favouritism to two teams to ensure they remain bigger and better than any other team and any threat to that would be dealt with in whatever manner was required

This is what Reagan is telling us and that's why his position and his association can no longer be considered fit to oversee the sport. Their desire to save the house of cards and their inability to understand why supporters and clubs are indeed prepared to face the consequences of starting again has brought the whole game into disrepute and they should go now before they cause any more damage (if that’s even possible)

[Waxy]

Any SFL team which votes for Sevco into div 1 are going against their own principles and are all thats wrong with Scottish football.
Blatent cash for votes campaign by what are laughingly meant to be our leaders.

If only they followed the rules Scottish football (after a small period of hardship)could flourish better than ever before for many many years.
But our Blind leaders have not and are Killing our game.

Very sinister goings on.

[vanNISHtelroy]

Statement from the Killie Trust:


The Killie Trust would like to disassociate themselves from the actions of the Kilmarnock Football Club Chairman at the SPL meeting on Wednesday. It was important that we, as a club, were seen to be taking a moral stance as opposed to acting in self interest, and it is felt that we have been misrepresented by our majority shareholder and sole board member in this case. His refusal to vote was clearly not in the best long term interests of the club as it cast a shadow of doubt over our own integrity in this sorry affair.

We hosted an open meeting in conjunction with our Supporters Association last week which Michael Johnston attended and a unanimous show of hands from the floor should have left him in no doubt that Kilmarnock supporters were not in favour of any new club being allowed entry directly into the top division based purely on financial reasons. This was also backed up by various on line polls which indicated that 98% of those whom voted were also of the same mind, and we are more than certain that the "consultation", which the club paid for and then apparently decided not to act upon, would have reflected the same; although the results of said "consultation" were kept out of the public domain and not made available to those whom voted.

The decision taken by the SPL is indeed a momentous one and we hope that the fans of the clubs affected can now concentrate on getting behind their teams and ensuring that the embarrassing scare-mongering predictions of Neil Doncaster and Stewart Regan, who should be considering their own positions at this time, do not come to fruition. If ever it was more clear that we need only one governing body for a country our size it is now. We sympathise with all football fans out there who have been victims of so-called business men that have systematically taken their club apart and we hope that such supporters will have a major say in how their club is run from here on in. The only good thing to come out of all this has been the refreshing way in which most clubs have responded to the wishes of their fan base and we hope that the clubs in the SFL will respond in a similar fashion and not be bullied into accepting change they do not want, when it comes to doing the right thing there can be no compromise.

We have the opportunity over the coming season to start getting our house in order and we hope that Supporters Direct and fans in general will be given a say in the direction that Scottish football will take. The major stake-holders in our game cannot and will not be ignored any longer because without the fans there would be no clubs and the time has come for us to reclaim our place at the table and ensure that commercial greed and self interest no longer dictate the decisions that have to be made. We are all in this together and together we can get Scottish football back on its feet, from the bottom division to the top, anything less is simply unacceptable.

[stokesmessiah]

Statement from the Killie Trust:

Great statement. I feel sorry for the Killie fans as they truly have a walloper for a chairman.

[Onion]

Sevco didn't vote. RFC voted ...they are not in liquidation and held an SPL share


Like a guy who has just got fired for incompetence, choosing his replacement. Only in Scotland :rolleyes:

[grunt]

The SPL are obligated tae pay that money from what money they have. If I were running any of those clubs I'd be seeking legal advice, no giving in tae their threats and blackmail.Indeed. And furthermore, I'd want to see these mythical broadcasting agreements. I don't believe a word uttered by Doncaster or Regan, and I would want documentary evidence of what would happen to the deals in the event of no Sevco. Actually, when I think about it, Rangers aren't Rangers anymore, so legally the broadcasting agreement would be dead anyway. If that's what it says, which I'm far from sure of. Like Dan, I'd also be encouraging an SFL-wide investment into a legal review of the settlement agreement to prove that the SPL can just decide not to pay it if they don't have any spare cash. I've never seen a contract yet that says you don't pay it if you can't afford it.

[grunt]

The impact on the SPL clubs is well documented with a number of them admitting they would move to administration very quickly as their debts to the banks in particular could not be serviced. Looks to me as though Stenny have bought the whole Regan / Doncaster story, hook line and sinker.

[ronaldo7]

Statement from the Killie Trust:

Well done the Killie Trust. More power to your elbow.:aok:

[At The Edge]

Fat Ally wants Sevco to start their new life in Division 3
link to bbc (http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/football/18730809)

[theonlywayisup]

A lot of the 11 were before the alleged financial meltdown was laid out and in particular before the SFL clubs were threatened with the non-payment of the SPL settlement. Based on statements since then I would say we have:

Defo No: Raith, Dunfermline, Cowdenbeath, Morton

Lean No: Clyde, Falkirk, Livingston

Defo Yes: Stenhousemuir

Lean Yes: Hamilton, Partick

Airdrie United to abstain

http://sport.stv.tv/football/clubs/airdrie-united/108921-airdrie-united-to-abstain-from-rangers-vote-over-conflict-of-interest/

Also thought Partick were a defo NO - "Partick reiterated that parachuting Rangers into Division One was “clearly unacceptable” and said that a “radical overhaul” of the game was needed."

[ekhibee]

Airdrie United to abstain

http://sport.stv.tv/football/clubs/airdrie-united/108921-airdrie-united-to-abstain-from-rangers-vote-over-conflict-of-interest/

Also thought Partick were a defo NO - "Partick reiterated that parachuting Rangers into Division One was “clearly unacceptable” and said that a “radical overhaul” of the game was needed."

Don't think I need many more excuses to despise Airdrie, but in this particular case, the clubs who are in a promotion posible scenario are in an awkward position. I still hate Airdrie though.

[Onion]

Fat Ally wants Sevco to start their new life in Division 3
link to bbc (http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/football/18730809)


Love this bit from AM .....

"Our good friends at Celtic across the city issued a statement that stated that integrity was of paramount importance to Scottish football and we totally agree with that, and I would imagine the vast majority of all SPL chairmen agree with that statement."

Just 48 hours ago, he and RFC voted YES to placing Newco straight into the SPL - where's your integrity in that ? If integrity is of paramount importance, why did RFC and Newco not volunteer to go straight into Div 3 weeks ago ? If integrity is key, why are you still working for a thieving, cheating, manipulating institution who has basically stolen money from the general public, small businesses and other football club who have tried to run their affairs properly ? McCoist should't use words he doesn't understand - it just makes him look like a Silly Billy Boy.

[HFC 0-7]

What is strange about the stenhouse statement is that in it they say the financial amounts that could be lost if rangers are not in div 1 have been verified by other bodies. In then goes on to talk about IF a clause is in the contracts of sky etc that would allow them to cancel. Doncaster, regan etc should know if there is a clause, they must have signed them!

[joe breezy]

[/B]
I presume this goes towards the school of thought that the newco should be denied entry to the SFL at any level. I'm sure the rules governing an SFA license could be used as a stumbling block to that.

There is an old saying ... Rules are made for the guidance of wise men and the obeyance of fools.

FWIW ... I detest the apparent move by the SPL to bully the SFL clubs into allowing a newco into the first division by threatening to withhold money the SFL is due ..... that is the sort of thinking that got us into this mess in the first place. It should be up to the SFL with no pressure from outside to decide what league to admit them to. If its the 3rd division then fine.

But to put a block on a license is bonkers.

As somebody said on here a million posts ago ... If it looks like Rangers and Smells like Rangers ...it is Rangers. Having to come back as a newco and start in Division3 I would have thought is punishment enough.

It's not a punishment it's a consequence of pending liquidation

Please stop talking hunspeak

[Onion]

Great statement. I feel sorry for the Killie fans as they truly have a walloper for a chairman.

:agree: They need to get shot of that guy so they can be be welcomed back into the fold.

[Eyrie]

"Our good friends at Celtic across the city"

No surprises there.

[Magnifique]

It really is. People are so thick they just go along with whatever Sky Sports tell them. It's the same mindset that sees Scottish fans now 'supporting' English clubs. Utterly pathetic.


IF NEwco get into anything other than Div 3 I shall be doing exactly that I will buy a season ticket for St Jamesies immediately

[Dashing Bob S]

In a way, Regan, Doncaster etc have been successful, in that, by their refusal to implement their own rules, they have made this about a lot more than Rangers. I think that whatever happens at RFC, many fans of other clubs (and probably a lot of RFC fans too, tbh) won't be back until those comedians are removed from office, and replaced with men who have the spine to enforce the rules of sporting association, and the vision to develop the game in this country.

[Kaiser1962]

Fat Ally wants Sevco to start their new life in Division 3
link to bbc (http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/football/18730809)

I suspect that reality may be dawning on the Hun in that they are unlikely to make it into SFL1 and SFL3 is now their only option and they are trying to make it appear that this what they wanted all along.

If they piss of any more SFL chairmen they may not even get that.

[Bostonhibby]

:agree: We are at the mercy of the broadcasters. I said a few pages back though it should be the bbc we are after though for a proportionate share of the £75m they spend a year on English football given we pay the same license fee.

I currently pay about £90 a month to sky which I'll cancel if rangers go into 1st

I definitely will too.

[SteveHFC]

http://forum.rangersmedia.co.uk/index.php?showtopic=230418

:faf: :faf:

[mixumatosis]

In a way, Regan, Doncaster etc have been successful, in that, by their refusal to implement their own rules, they have made this about a lot more than Rangers. I think that whatever happens at RFC, many fans of other clubs (and probably a lot of RFC fans too, tbh) won't be back until those comedians are removed from office, and replaced with men who have the spine to enforce the rules of sporting association, and the vision to develop the game in this country.

Thing is DBS, where are these men of integrity, vision and moral fibre ? It's a bit like saying because Garry O'Connor's gone Zlatan Ibrahimovic will be along shortly to take his place.

[CropleyWasGod]

http://forum.rangersmedia.co.uk/index.php?showtopic=230418

:faf: :faf:

"The Bass Rock is Europe to them..."

:greengrin

[Sergey]

"The Bass Rock is Europe to them..."

:greengrin

Thought that was quite clever, too.

[stokesmessiah]

It's not a punishment it's a consequence of pending liquidation

Please stop talking hunspeak

Correct, i dont know how many times i have read ppl saying this punishment and that punishment it infuriates me. When are they going to get in in their heads that being out of Europe is not a punishment it is instead a direct result of them no longer meeting the criteria due to their own actions.

I am sooooo bored of this whole thing now and wish it would just get dealt with.

I can't wait until the season kicks off and we can concentrate on the football.

[vanNISHtelroy]

I think from the statement released by Killie on the official site, if you didn't vote then you were happy for the club to vote to allow the NewCo in.

http://www.kilmarnockfc.co.uk/articles/20120705/official-statement_85961_2833623

Had a feeling this would happen...Baz releases the Trust's statement and then MJ releases his list of excuses the same night

[frazeHFC]

I'm loving seeing how pissed off they are with us. :greengrin Wheeeeeeeeey up ye. http://i1101.photobucket.com/albums/g439/exatera/smileys/smiley_moon.gif

[Hibercelona]

http://forum.rangersmedia.co.uk/index.php?showtopic=230418

:faf: :faf:

At least I know what site to go on now when crack is in low supply. :smokin

[DH1875]

Thing is DBS, where are these men of integrity, vision and moral fibre ? It's a bit like saying because Garry O'Connor's gone Zlatan Ibrahimovic will be along shortly to take his place.


I'd rather we'd keep Garry :greengrin.

[ballengeich]

I've just had a horrible idea worthy of Doncaster himself.

The identity of team 12 will not be announced before the SFL decision. If Rangers are not voted into division 1, the SPL decides that no replacement will be invited. The Appellate Tribunal then gives Rangers a one year suspension from competitive football, but allows them to play team 12's fixtures as friendlies. At the end of the season new Rangers are invited to fill the empty SPL slot.

Does that get me an executive post at the SFA?

[DH1875]

I'm loving seeing how pissed off they are with us. :greengrin Wheeeeeeeeey up ye. http://i1101.photobucket.com/albums/g439/exatera/smileys/smiley_moon.gif


They've got a lot hate for Dundee Utd. Very surprised and wonder where it comes from :dunno:.

[CropleyWasGod]

I've just had a horrible idea worthy of Doncaster himself.

The identity of team 12 will not be announced before the SFL decision. If Rangers are not voted into division 1, the SPL decides that no replacement will be invited. The Appellate Tribunal then gives Rangers a one year suspension from competitive football, but allows them to play team 12's fixtures as friendlies. At the end of the season new Rangers are invited to fill the empty SPL slot.

Does that get me an executive post at the SFA?

Admins... delete this post now. Everyone and their Auntie gets their news and ideas from Hibs.net.....:cb

[Rossco1875]

http://forum.rangersmedia.co.uk/index.php?showtopic=230418

:faf: :faf:

If it was us we would have been chucked out the SPL and starting a new life in the 3rd division by now.:rolleyes:

Did find the bass rock part funny.:greengrin

[Jonnyboy]

I think from the statement released by Killie on the official site, if you didn't vote then you were happy for the club to vote to allow the NewCo in.

http://www.kilmarnockfc.co.uk/articles/20120705/official-statement_85961_2833623

Had a feeling this would happen...Baz releases the Trust's statement and then MJ releases his list of excuses the same night

Johnston says ............ In the course of the SPL General Meeting, prior to the vote, it became evident that a number of clubs which had previously been ambivalent about how they would vote were leaning towards "no" to "Newco" and the result of the vote was a foregone conclusion before it was taken.

It was a foregone conclusion before these allegedly ambivalent clubs decided how to vote. Rangers needed an 8-4 win so any more than five saying no would scupper them. Six said no before the meeting was even held.

MJ is squirming and so he should be

[Jonnyboy]

If it was us we would have been chucked out the SPL and starting a new life in the 3rd division by now.:rolleyes:

Did find the bass rock part funny.:greengrin

What's a 'saction'? Should Rod be worried? :greengrin

[CropleyWasGod]

I was saying to a guy earlier that the best case for Doncaster would be that the SFL did not vote Rangers into the league at all.
Then it would be a case of 'the only place for them is the SPL'

far fetched?

Admins...... delete this one an aw!!!:greengrin

[CropleyWasGod]

What's a 'saction'? Should Rod be worried? :greengrin

It's what Celtc will have applied to them. :greengrin

[Jonnyboy]

It's what Celtc will have applied to them. :greengrin

:greengrin

[Saorsa]

http://forum.rangersmedia.co.uk/index.php?showtopic=230418

:faf: :faf::hilarious

[Bishop Hibee]

Killie Chairman's reply is embarrassing. What 'other plan' should the SPL have concocted to help newco? One that let them in with sanctions which allowed them to finish no lower than 6th thus allowing 4 OF games a season? As for 'passing the buck' to the SFL, they are two separate organisations. The SFL would be quite within their rights to deny newco entry unless through the already approved channels.

Always remember, Rangers brought sanctions on themselves by their misdeeds, no club/s did it to them.

[rcarter1]

Did find the bass rock part funny.:greengrin[/QUOTE]

So did I! Actually found a lot more sense being spoken on that forum then from Roncaster et al..

[JohnStephens91]

If it was us we would have been chucked out the SPL and starting a new life in the 3rd division by now.:rolleyes:

Did find the bass rock part funny.:greengrin

Haha we are 'taig c***s' apparently.

[DMR1875]

If it was us we would have been chucked out the SPL and starting a new life in the 3rd division by now.:rolleyes:

Did find the bass rock part funny.:greengrin

Been to the Bass rock, got shat on! That was nature though. When I was living in Rossie Place the Huns would crap in my stairwell. Get them to the third div.

[JohnStephens91]

http://forum.rangersmedia.co.uk/index.php?showtopic=230418

:faf: :faf:

Oh what on Earth can these sactions be? What are sactions? Guys I am petrified at the thought of something I do not know about!

[Jim44]

Johnston says ............ In the course of the SPL General Meeting, prior to the vote, it became evident that a number of clubs which had previously been ambivalent about how they would vote were leaning towards "no" to "Newco" and the result of the vote was a foregone conclusion before it was taken.

It was a foregone conclusion before these allegedly ambivalent clubs decided how to vote. Rangers needed an 8-4 win so any more than five saying no would scupper them. Six said no before the meeting was even held.

MJ is squirming and so he should be

Will the pies save them 'tho? :greengrin

[ronaldo7]

What's a 'saction'? Should Rod be worried? :greengrin

Saction 43 J.

Try and keep up:cb

[brydekirk]

IF NEwco get into anything other than Div 3 I shall be doing exactly that I will buy a season ticket for St Jamesies immediately
,
Thats just great, take it out on hibs.

[Lungo--Drom]

They're good at spelling aren't they? :faf:
My favourite comment was two pages on from where the link took me:
"Hibs going bust just die spl ya shower of taig loving
***** "


http://forum.rangersmedia.co.uk/index.php?showtopic=230418

:faf: :faf:

[CropleyWasGod]

I liked the bit about us having to hand back our Scottish Cups. :aok:

[Jonnyboy]

Saction 43 J.

Try and keep up:cb

:greengrin

I also liked their sting in tail final threat which read 'bee banned from signing any players'

:greengrin

[grunt]

gordonchree‏@gordonchree#Livingston (http://www.hibs.net/#!/search/%23Livingston) FC director @davidstoker_lfc (http://www.hibs.net/#!/davidstoker_lfc) says he "does not believe" Neil Doncaster's figures re possible financial implications

Good to see someone come out and openly question the numbers. I hope this develops. I am willing to bet those calculations are made of straw.

[CropleyWasGod]

gordonchree‏@gordonchree#Livingston (http://www.hibs.net/#!/search/%23Livingston) FC director @davidstoker_lfc (http://www.hibs.net/#!/davidstoker_lfc) says he "does not believe" Neil Doncaster's figures re possible financial implications

Good to see someone come out and openly question the numbers. I hope this develops. I am willing to bet those calculations are made of straw.

I think we can rely on Livi to be particularly vocal about stuff. :agree:

[Hibercelona]

They're good at spelling aren't they? :faf:
My favourite comment was two pages on from where the link took me:
"Hibs going bust just die spl ya shower of taig loving
***** "

I've always had a soft spot for Irish Catholics myself.

:nanasplit:

[Paisley Hibby]

I was saying to a guy earlier that the best case for Doncaster would be that the SFL did not vote Rangers into the league at all.
Then it would be a case of 'the only place for them is the SPL'

far fetched?

Possibly not I'm afraid.

[cabbageandribs1875]

one of a couple of threads about hibs/hibs fans on swallow swallow

Dafty Hun

Title
Lift contractor-Hibs fan


I work in Facilities Management and this Scottish guy from a lift maintenance company called to do a sales pitch on me today, I asked him in my English accent where he was from, he replied that he was from Edinburgh.

I asked him what he thought of the situation at Rangers. He could not get in quick enough with the opinion that Rangers should be made an example of and thrown out of the Scottish league completely!

I then told him he could go and get te ****, he has got no chance of getting any business off this bear!!!

I know it's a long story, but I enjoyed telling him where to go and thought I'd share it with Follow Follow....

WATP


Dafty Hun 2

I hope you then phoned the company he was working for and asked them if that was the sort of prick they employed as a matter of course.


oh dear :faf:


Dafty Hun 3

Well done. About time we took care of our bitter enemies.

original Dafty Hun

I do have a boss but he's a good NI Bear!!!!!

He'll back me up on this one......just phoned my pal who works with this pleb Hibs fan and told him his company shouldn't employ such dobbers!! And they have no chance of getting any work from us, he was pissing himself and said that the guy knows **** all about football!! lol


OMG :faf:



they really are quite precious

[mayo hibee]

David Stoker is well worth a follow on Twitter, he has spoken a lot of sense in the last two days. If other chairmen in the SFL share his views, Sevco haven't a hope in hell of being put in the first division.

[H18sry]

How on earth can the SFA really have a Chief Executive who has to be informed by Sky, via Twitter, that the Sky scare stories are b@llocks...



@SkyHelpTeam: @tambritton @StewartRegan We have no plans to pull out of covering the Scottish Premier League. Rob

Original Message:


https://twitter.com/rangerstaxcase/status/220933768020631552 :wink:

[mayo hibee]

Even Longmuir is distancing himself from the two clowns this evening. I don't think either of them will see the start of the season in their current roles to be honest.

[Baldy Foghorn]

one of a couple of threads about hibs/hibs fans on swallow swallow

Dafty Hun

Title
Lift contractor-Hibs fan


I work in Facilities Management and this Scottish guy from a lift maintenance company called to do a sales pitch on me today, I asked him in my English accent where he was from, he replied that he was from Edinburgh.

I asked him what he thought of the situation at Rangers. He could not get in quick enough with the opinion that Rangers should be made an example of and thrown out of the Scottish league completely!

I then told him he could go and get te ****, he has got no chance of getting any business off this bear!!!

I know it's a long story, but I enjoyed telling him where to go and thought I'd share it with Follow Follow....

WATP


Dafty Hun 2

I hope you then phoned the company he was working for and asked them if that was the sort of prick they employed as a matter of course.


oh dear :faf:


Dafty Hun 3

Well done. About time we took care of our bitter enemies.

original Dafty Hun

I do have a boss but he's a good NI Bear!!!!!

He'll back me up on this one......just phoned my pal who works with this pleb Hibs fan and told him his company shouldn't employ such dobbers!! And they have no chance of getting any work from us, he was pissing himself and said that the guy knows **** all about football!! lol


OMG :faf:



they really are quite precious


Stupid Huns...I despise everything about them....If they don't like the answer, don't ask the question (simples really)......

They keep saying they are being punished and its not fair, boo hoo.....Shouldn't have cheated the system and accumulated massive debts, which the creditors have no chance of recouping........

[Baldy Foghorn]

Even Longmuir is distancing himself from the two clowns this evening. I don't think either of them will see the start of the season in their current roles to be honest.

Saw his comment on the news earlier, his answer spoke volumes of what he thinks of Doncaster & Regan....I hope these numpties are forced out of their positions, IMO their positions are now untenable, and for football to prosper in Scotland, these guys need to be a million miles away from Hampden....

[Magnifique]

,
Thats just great, take it out on hibs.


Will be a very sad day but if it's corrupt I'm not interested

[Baldy Foghorn]

How on earth can the SFA really have a Chief Executive who has to be informed by Sky, via Twitter, that the Sky scare stories are b@llocks...



@SkyHelpTeam: @tambritton @StewartRegan We have no plans to pull out of covering the Scottish Premier League. Rob

Original Message:


https://twitter.com/rangerstaxcase/status/220933768020631552 :wink:

The SFA are losing credibility by the minute, this scaremongering and bullying, without foundation is really unacceptable...........

[oldbutdim]

I personally think that Kilmarnock knew their yes vote was worthless and would anger their fans, and Stenhousemuir know fine well that Rangers are not going to get into division 1, so both teams decided not to vote against Rangers in the hope that if they fail to get into division 3 which is looking more and more likely, the Rangers fans with no team to watch will go along to watch the only teams not to vote against them.

Stenny looked only at the economics of the situation as it affects them. Decent explanation on the site.


Looks to me as though Stenny have bought the whole Regan / Doncaster story, hook line and sinker.

See above.


What is strange about the stenhouse statement is that in it they say the financial amounts that could be lost if rangers are not in div 1 have been verified by other bodies. In then goes on to talk about IF a clause is in the contracts of sky etc that would allow them to cancel. Doncaster, regan etc should know if there is a clause, they must have signed them!

But they wont let the SFL guys see them! "Commercial confidentiality"
:rolleyes:

[grunt]

Stenny looked only at the economics of the situation as it affects them. Decent explanation on the site.

See above.I think you've missed my point. To me the Stenhousemuir statement indicates that they have believed what they've been told by Regan / Doncaster, without questioning it. I don't think they should necessarily believe whatever that pair puts in front of them.

[oldbutdim]

I think you've missed my point. To me the Stenhousemuir statement indicates that they have believed what they've been told by Regan / Doncaster, without questioning it. I don't think they should necessarily believe whatever that pair puts in front of them.

No I didn't miss it. They did their own research.

And they didn't necessarily believe what was put in front of them.
Or even what Regan and Doncaster refused to put in front of them.

They simply can't go forward without the cash given by the SPL.

Fact.

Endof.

[Lungo--Drom]

Me too, specially the one I see in the mirror of a morning :faf:


I've always had a soft spot for Irish Catholics myself.

:nanasplit:

[grunt]

No I didn't miss it. They did their own research.

And they didn't necessarily believe what was put in front of them.
Or even what Regan and Doncaster refused to put in front of them.

They simply can't go forward without the cash given by the SPL.

Fact.

Endof.Thanks for your reply. Any time someone says "Fact, Endof" to me I feel compelled to reply.
I've read the Stenny statement again. Nowhere does it indicate they've done their own research. Nowhere does it indicate that they haven't taken the SFA/SPL report as gospel - in fact all their arguments are based on the contents of that report. Nowhere does it state that they can't go forward without the cash from the SPL; in fact (that word again) they state the opposite - they say they would reduce their costs to manage. The Stenhousemuir view seems to boil down to the fact that since the SFA have made their mind up there's nothing Stenny can do so they may as well go along with it. The more I read their statement, the less I'm impressed with the thinking behind it. Opinion. Endof.

[StevieC]

They simply can't go forward without the cash given by the SPL.

So you would think that they would be outraged by the threat and start asking questions about WHO has made the decision to renege on the legal obligations of the SPL .. because if Sevco don't get their majority Stenny still can't "go forward"!

As I said a couple of pages back, this statement smacks of Hun apologists on the Stenny board.

[Spike Mandela]

I think from the statement released by Killie on the official site, if you didn't vote then you were happy for the club to vote to allow the NewCo in.

http://www.kilmarnockfc.co.uk/articles/20120705/official-statement_85961_2833623

Had a feeling this would happen...Baz releases the Trust's statement and then MJ releases his list of excuses the same night

Find it hard to believe his consultation vote only got a 36% "No to Newco" vote, probably more than Rangers fans voted.:confused:

Makes we wonder if he's using the union block vote tactic of major shareholders vote holding more sway than the small shareholders. 2499 voted no to newco and 1 voted yes but he holds 64% of the shares.:greengrin

[sadtom]

Somebody please stop me clicking the links to rankgersmedia. Its hunbelievable.
Its depressing i feel like dissinfecting my eyes. What a *****ty little country we live in.
This is the sort of filth that is allowed on their main messageboard.
http://forum.rangersmedia.co.uk/index.php?showtopic=230429&st=0

I've heard folk talk about celtc and rankger fans as being as bad as each other. I'm sorry but that is utter garbage.
During this whole shambolic state of affairs i've looked on kerrydale street a few times to see any info or breaking stories and from what i can see the vast majority seem to be normal fitba fans and mostly sentient human beings. Yes i can find them smug, self righteous and bloody irritating at times but, my god, the barely literate, ignorant, vermin that inhabit the hun message boards are just disgusting. (I'm led to believe that swallow swallow is even worse - but as they 'hide' their views from the public i cant confirm).
If anyone thinks otherwise please find and post anything from kds that comes close to that sort of nasty, intolerant bile.
That whole stinking club are a magnet and a natural home to all sorts of prejudices and small minded bigots. They embody everything that is wrong with society.

If celtc are itching powder, then the huns are pure f****** poison.

Hurry up and die in the gutter you backward f****** weirdos.

[Hibercelona]

Somebody please stop me clicking the links to rankgersmedia. Its hunbelievable.
Its depressing i feel like dissinfecting my eyes. What a *****ty little country we live in.
This is the sort of filth that is allowed on their main messageboard.
http://forum.rangersmedia.co.uk/index.php?showtopic=230429&st=0

I've heard folk talk about celtc and rankger fans as being as bad as each other. I'm sorry but that is utter garbage.
During this whole shambolic state of affairs i've looked on kerrydale street a few times to see any info or breaking stories and from what i can see the vast majority seem to be normal fitba fans and mostly sentient human beings. Yes i can find them smug, self righteous and bloody irritating at times but, my god, the barely literate, ignorant, vermin that inhabit the hun message boards are just disgusting. (I'm led to believe that swallow swallow is even worse - but as they 'hide' their views from the public i cant confirm).
If anyone thinks otherwise please find and post anything from kds that comes close to that sort of nasty, intolerant bile.
That whole stinking club are a magnet and a natural home to all sorts of prejudices and small minded bigots. They embody everything that is wrong with society.

If celtc are itching powder, then the huns are pure f****** poison.

Hurry up and die in the gutter you backward f****** weirdos.

If the situations were reversed and Celtic were in Rangers position instead, do you think the behaviour of their fans would really differ that much?

It's no real shock that Celtic fans seem like the far "nicer" bunch right now. Their most hated club are going down the toilet and it would be the exact same for Rangers fans if the roles were reversed.

Rangers fans would seem like decent chaps if Celtic were heading into oblivion instead.

[sadtom]

If the situations were reversed and Celtic were in Rangers position instead, do you think the behaviour of their fans would really differ that much?

Yes i certainly do. For a start they could probably string the odd sentence together and manage to organise themselves better.

It's no real shock that Celtic fans seem like the far "nicer" bunch right now. Their most hated club is going down the toilet and it would be the exact same for Rangers fans if the roles were reversed.

Rangers fans would seem like decent chaps if Celtic were heading into oblivion instead.

I think you are kidding yourself on. All you would have to do is look back 1 year on either messageboard and i'd bet the content would be similar as it is now.
Thankfully on here we can disagree with a bit of respect. If it was RM by now one of us would have called the other a f****** fenian b****** taig, tattie munching tarrier c***! (though obviously it would be littered with spelling mistakes)
As clubs or 'entities' it is perhaps true, or at least closer to being true. As for their average supporters they are NOT the same, no matter how much some people wish it were true.



If the final outcome of all this is that these simpleminded freaks dont have anywhere to congregate regularly other that cyberspace, then i'll be absolutely delighted.

[essexhibee]

Who let's these people out. And lets them use computers.


Honestly finding it baffling how they feel its everyone bar their own for the situation they find themselves in. I mean. Really!?


And why are we in financial meltdown all of a sudden BTW.

[Scott Allan Key]

Fat blob Traynor to-day

But is it really the will of the people or the ignorant views of semi-literate gangs of keyboard clatterers?


Fat git, I'm not a violent person really but I defo would make an exception with him


http://blogs.dailyrecord.co.uk/jimtraynor/2012/07/no-to-rangers-newco-means-spl.html?utm_source=feedburner&utm_medium=feed&utm_campaign=Feed%3A+TheDailyRecord%2FJimTraynor+( The+Daily+Record+-+Jim+Traynor) (http://blogs.dailyrecord.co.uk/jimtraynor/2012/07/no-to-rangers-newco-means-spl.html?utm_source=feedburner&utm_medium=feed&utm_campaign=Feed%3A+TheDailyRecord%2FJimTraynor+% 28The+Daily+Record+-+Jim+Traynor%29)

Sums up the overwhelming number of Glesgae paper journalists exactly.:agree:

[Pete]

I don't like the idea of Rangers being admitted straight into the first division but lets think logically about the options.

If Rangers start in the third division, which is where they realistically should be starting, what are the options regarding change to the game?
The SPL would now have 11 clubs that could change the way the top league works which is excellent. They could force through major changes regarding wealth distribution and ensure a more competitive league. What would happen to the structure of the SFL? Would it just not be the same old but with Rangers ploughing through the leagues back to the top division. All they would get would be a pay day or two for one season and that would be it....the SPL would still be this cut-off entity.

If Rangers, rightly or wrongly, were to start in the first the promised changes would be binding as far as the SFL is concerned. The SPL clubs would still outnumber Celtic so major changes could still be voted through in this years period that Rangers are absent. All this stuff about clubs going to the wall would go away. It might be mince but if we're talking purely money then surely clubs are more financially secure with all the "good" that Rangers and the old firm bring.

New Rangers will enter at some level and it's mental to suggest anyone like Spartans should take priority over them. Lets get real.

If they enter the third with no sanctions they will be in the top flight, free of debt and free to compete in Europe in season 15/16.

If they enter the first they will be in the SPL next season but will barred from Europe until 15/16. They will also have certain sanctions and will have to pay back all their footballing debts.

I don't think the "newco for D1" proposals are fair but if clubs were to vote for them to be admitted to the first division on the condition that HEAVIER sanctions were to be enforced, would it not suit everyone? The SPL have already blurred the lines so why not something like a 20 point penalty regardless of what division they are in for the next 4 years?

We'll all feel cleansed and like we have done something right if they are admitted to the third but think about where they will be in four years time. Regardless of how the vote goes they will be at the top of the SPL along with Celtic. Even if a perfect system of wealth distribution was to evolve in the years they are out of the top league that system would still see them near the top.
Rangers will now be OK regardless of what league they are in. Everyone at the club now wants to go to the bottom rung and you have to ask why. Is it because it will be better for them in the long run if they spend a few years in the doldrums and there is a big chance that the duopoly state of affairs and way of mind will still apply when they get back to the top?

I'm playing devils advocate big time but surely the main issues should be league reconstruction and seizing the opportunities while they exist. If the authorities are throwing deals at clubs to admit Rangers into league one then surely they have more to offer. The SFL and SPL clubs now know that the footballing authorities in Scotland are desperate so why don't we get together and go for their throats, forcing REAL change and not just these tit-bits?

The league Rangers play in is important in principal but it can also be viewed as a bargaining tool for the rest of us to use. A side-issue even when it comes to the momentous change that we can effect if we all put our heads together and realise the power we have collectively. Any board worth their salt should smell blood and be on the phone to their counterparts in the same division and discussing what changes we should be asking for...or even demanding!

[rcarter1]

How about this as a solution -

Regan/Doncaster/Longmuir (or replacements) could make a statement that says "we will work our hardest to replace any lost income to the gam should Rangers be admitted into the third, first or any other division. This will be achieved by promoting the Scottish game to the best of our ability, and seeking sponsorship and other revenue from sources that have Scottish footballs long term future at heart."

Rangers could issue a statement whereby they agree to pay Scottish football reparations over the next few years (provided they actually survive and bring in income) at a level which balances the need for them to operate competitively with their responsibility to the game overall. They should also agree to their accounts being freely available for monitoring by other clubs/governing bodies.

Celtic could back up their statement of support to the game, by providing a few million pounds per year (as a loan) to the SPL/SFL or individual clubs in order to help clubs reach a point of financial stability.

Tom Farmer could provide a few million (as a loan) to the SPL/SFL in order to help clubs reach a point of financial stability.

Vladimir Romanov could provide a few million (as a loan) to the SPL/SFL in order to help clubs reach a point of financial stability.

David Murray and Craig Whyte (and any others culpable) offer to pay reparations to Rangers/Scottish football (this is the least likely of all I accept)

Individual clubs in hardship could do their best to reorganise current financial demands to minimise their acute cash-flow problems.

Players could offer clubs in hardship, reductions or deferrals to their wages.

Supporters could express their enthusiasm for a game that is suffering a financial pressure caused by the consequences of Rangers situation.

[EuanH78]

How about this as a solution -

Regan/Doncaster/Longmuir (or replacements) could make a statement that says "we will work our hardest to replace any lost income to the gam should Rangers be admitted into the third, first or any other division. This will be achieved by promoting the Scottish game to the best of our ability, and seeking sponsorship and other revenue from sources that have Scottish footballs long term future at heart."

Rangers could issue a statement whereby they agree to pay Scottish football reparations over the next few years (provided they actually survive and bring in income) at a level which balances the need for them to operate competitively with their responsibility to the game overall. They should also agree to their accounts being freely available for monitoring by other clubs/governing bodies.

Celtic could back up their statement of support to the game, by providing a few million pounds per year (as a loan) to the SPL/SFL or individual clubs in order to help clubs reach a point of financial stability.

Tom Farmer could provide a few million (as a loan) to the SPL/SFL in order to help clubs reach a point of financial stability.

Vladimir Romanov could provide a few million (as a loan) to the SPL/SFL in order to help clubs reach a point of financial stability.

David Murray and Craig Whyte (and any others culpable) offer to pay reparations to Rangers/Scottish football (this is the least likely of all I accept)

Individual clubs in hardship could do their best to reorganise current financial demands to minimise their acute cash-flow problems.

Players could offer clubs in hardship, reductions or deferrals to their wages.

Supporters could express their enthusiasm for a game that is suffering a financial pressure caused by the consequences of Rangers situation.

Not going to knock your idea but I dont think it would work to be honest.

Personally I think its not particularly the clubs that are in danger here, it is the SPL itself. The financial model that has been used is now broken beyond repair unless the rules are wantonly broken to accommodate one of its rotten pillars.

The very fact that doing this kills the 'sport' does not concern regan and doncaster, their myopic vision does not allow for other scenarios such as a better league structure, fairer financial distribution and getting clubs to live within means. Scottish football would be able to find its own level but the heads of the game prefer to chase the TV dollar - to hell with the clubs and fans.

[Hibrandenburg]

Not going to knock your idea but I dont think it would work to be honest.

Personally I think its not particularly the clubs that are in danger here, it is the SPL itself. The financial model that has been used is now broken beyond repair unless the rules are wantonly broken to accommodate one of its rotten pillars.

The very fact that doing this kills the 'sport' does not concern regan and doncaster, their myopic vision does not allow for other scenarios such as a better league structure, fairer financial distribution and getting clubs to live within means. Scottish football would be able to find its own level but the heads of the game prefer to chase the TV dollar - to hell with the clubs and fans.

10/10 Pretty sure that's their way of thinking. They can't see the woods for their own garden hedges.

[NAE NOOKIE]

Will be a very sad day but if it's corrupt I'm not interested

If the newco end up in Div 1 the only reason will be that the people who run the game fear for the future of some clubs. Its the clubs themselves who are saying it will be hard to keep going if they are in the wilderness for more than a season, or 2 at most. This over reliance on THEM should have never been allowed to happen, but they are saying its the reality for them.

I dont think they are being corrupt I think they are trying to find a solution that punishes Rangers without punishing everybody else as well. I know they are a new club, but their loss in financial terms will be the same, newco or not. A rose by any other name as they say.


As for the EPL ...... Dont make me laugh ... most of these clubs ( in spite of the billions lavished on them by TV ) have levels of debt that would make Mad Vlad blush. If the TV pulled the plug tomorrow 2 thirds of clubs in the EPL would go tits up.

Scottish football is looking at some unpalatable decisions because they genuinely fear that losing TV income will damage the game. Do you really think the EPL would think any differently if it looked like the TV folk were going to pull out. I dont think so.

Aye ... Things are far from ideal here ... but I will stay and fight for the club and game I love as best as I can. Not look for a way out by giving my money to the greediest league in the world.

[McSwanky]

Pie in the sky thinking:

Two leagues of 16. (Rangers could go into the bottom league.)

Regional leagues below.

Proper pyramid system.

Knockout tournament (seeded, over 2 legs) for the League Championship between the top 8 in the top league, pioneering a more exciting end to the season and giving other teams a chance of winning. Culminates in a showpiece league decider at Hampden every year.

Play-offs for relegation beween top 4 in bottom league and bottom 4 in top league. At least 2 come up.

Do away with League Cup.

It must be a Friday. I'm off for a cup of tea.

[vanNISHtelroy]

Find it hard to believe his consultation vote only got a 36% "No to Newco" vote, probably more than Rangers fans voted.:confused:

Makes we wonder if he's using the union block vote tactic of major shareholders vote holding more sway than the small shareholders. 2499 voted no to newco and 1 voted yes but he holds 64% of the shares.:greengrin

I think its the 36% of the 2500 eligible voted....notice they haven't revealed the percentage who voted either way in that grouping.

And unfortunately MJ holds a lot more shares than that!

[alexedwards]

Thanks for your reply. Any time someone says "Fact, Endof" to me I feel compelled to reply.
I've read the Stenny statement again. Nowhere does it indicate they've done their own research. Nowhere does it indicate that they haven't taken the SFA/SPL report as gospel - in fact all their arguments are based on the contents of that report. Nowhere does it state that they can't go forward without the cash from the SPL; in fact (that word again) they state the opposite - they say they would reduce their costs to manage. The Stenhousemuir view seems to boil down to the fact that since the SFA have made their mind up there's nothing Stenny can do so they may as well go along with it. The more I read their statement, the less I'm impressed with the thinking behind it. Opinion. Endof.

Gers fans on the board IMHO.

[alexedwards]

Johnston says ............ In the course of the SPL General Meeting, prior to the vote, it became evident that a number of clubs which had previously been ambivalent about how they would vote were leaning towards "no" to "Newco" and the result of the vote was a foregone conclusion before it was taken.

It was a foregone conclusion before these allegedly ambivalent clubs decided how to vote. Rangers needed an 8-4 win so any more than five saying no would scupper them. Six said no before the meeting was even held.

MJ is squirming and so he should be

And yet Doncaster sais he was "surprised" with the vote?....................and we should trust a word he says?.....and we should believe his false figures? Doncaster is a ****** :cb.

[McSwanky]

Pie in the sky thinking:

Two leagues of 16. (Rangers could go into the bottom league.)

Regional leagues below.

Proper pyramid system.

Knockout tournament (seeded, over 2 legs) for the League Championship between the top 8 in the top league, pioneering a more exciting end to the season and giving other teams a chance of winning. Culminates in a showpiece league decider at Hampden every year.

Play-offs for relegation beween top 4 in bottom league and bottom 4 in top league. At least 2 come up.

Do away with League Cup.

It must be a Friday. I'm off for a cup of tea.

Got my cup of tea.

Proper winter break.

Bring back the Tennents Sixes or something similar.

Scottish football needs radically shaken up, it's time to get progressive.

[monktonharp]

Pie in the sky thinking:

Two leagues of 16. (Rangers could go into the bottom league.)

Regional leagues below.

Proper pyramid system.

Knockout tournament (seeded, over 2 legs) for the League Championship between the top 8 in the top league, pioneering a more exciting end to the season and giving other teams a chance of winning. Culminates in a showpiece league decider at Hampden every year.

Play-offs for relegation beween top 4 in bottom league and bottom 4 in top league. At least 2 come up.

Do away with League Cup.

It must be a Friday. I'm off for a cup of tea.have a slice of your sky pie while your at it:wink:

[rcarter1]

Not going to knock your idea but I dont think it would work to be honest.

Personally I think its not particularly the clubs that are in danger here, it is the SPL itself. The financial model that has been used is now broken beyond repair unless the rules are wantonly broken to accommodate one of its rotten pillars.

The very fact that doing this kills the 'sport' does not concern regan and doncaster, their myopic vision does not allow for other scenarios such as a better league structure, fairer financial distribution and getting clubs to live within means. Scottish football would be able to find its own level but the heads of the game prefer to chase the TV dollar - to hell with the clubs and fans.

I agree that the idea is about as likely to happen as a Scottish summer. However my point is that 15.7 million - should that indeed be the sum, is not as hard to get a hold as the Roncasters are making it out to be. I do however disagree with your assessment that individual clubs are not in danger. Im sure that a few clubs like Kilmarnock, Motherwell, St Mirren are squirming pretty bad at the financial consequences of Rangers starting in the third division. They may all get through without administration, but on the other hand they might not. My point is that for clubs of that size, that may be put over the edge for reasons not of their making, it should be possible to find benefactors capable of tiding them over until they can sort out their finances.

I do agree that the SPL is seriously flawed and that many of those people running the game have been found wanting. Wherever Rangers end up, the game as a whole has a mandate for orchestrating real lasting changes for the better.

[oldbutdim]

Thanks for your reply. Any time someone says "Fact, Endof" to me I feel compelled to reply.
I've read the Stenny statement again. Nowhere does it indicate they've done their own research. Nowhere does it indicate that they haven't taken the SFA/SPL report as gospel - in fact all their arguments are based on the contents of that report. Nowhere does it state that they can't go forward without the cash from the SPL; in fact (that word again) they state the opposite - they say they would reduce their costs to manage. The Stenhousemuir view seems to boil down to the fact that since the SFA have made their mind up there's nothing Stenny can do so they may as well go along with it. The more I read their statement, the less I'm impressed with the thinking behind it. Opinion. Endof.

I'm exactly the same when I see FACT ENDOF!

I was just being sarcy.
On a serious note, I've discussed the statement at length with the Chairman of Stenny (definitely not a Hun apologist Stevie) and their view is based solely on income projections. Losing the SPL payments - which is what will happen - means they will be finished.

[Big Frank]

Pie in the sky thinking:

Two leagues of 16. (Rangers could go into the bottom league.)

Yes please!

Regional leagues below.

Yes please!

Proper pyramid system.

Yes please!

Knockout tournament (seeded, over 2 legs) for the League Championship between the top 8 in the top league, pioneering a more exciting end to the season and giving other teams a chance of winning. Culminates in a showpiece league decider at Hampden every year.

No thanks!. For any league championship, everyone should play everyone else equally. Anything else is nonsense be it playoffs/splits in the league or whatever imo

Play-offs for relegation beween top 4 in bottom league and bottom 4 in top league. At least 2 come up.

Could handle that.... but done they way they do playoffs in engerlandshire

Do away with League Cup.

No thanks! There is only 3 things to win in Scotland.

It must be a Friday. I'm off for a cup of tea.

Some good points made McS****y...

[green glory]

This is scandalous, and another indicator of the ineptitude of the footballing authorities in Scotland. The BBC pay Alan Hansen more than the entire SPL.



http://t.co/L2akVnqM

https://twitter.com/tonymckelvie/status/221146753758535680

https://twitter.com/tonymckelvie/status/221147200615485440

https://twitter.com/tonymckelvie/status/221147735565406209

[jonty]

The huge difference in sums paid by BBC for football content, with national promotion of the EPL, serves to distort the UK football market.

Between just Hanson, Lineker and Shearer, the BBC pays £3.9M per year for Presenters on MoTD, around 8 times the entire rights deal for SPL

The £500K paid by the BBC each year for SPL broadcast rights compares poorly to the £1.5M it pays to Alan Hanson to present Match of the Day

BBC pays each SPL club approx £40,000 per season for TV, Radio and Internet rights. It pays each EPL club £3M per season for TV alone.


Stevensanph on @rangerstaxcase has taken the time to compare SPL TV revenue with that of other Euro Nations here:
http://saintinasia.wordpress.com/2012/07/06/the-sfaspl-tv-myth-how-we-compare-to-europe/


Scottish football gets a bum deal. Like we didn't already know. :rolleyes:

[Part/Time Supporter]

The new Sticky Buns have only sold 250 season tickets

http://www.dailyrecord.co.uk/2012/07/06/rangers-in-crisis-charles-green-faces-15m-black-hole-after-just-250-season-tickets-are-sold-86908-23904912/

Wouldn't Regan and Doncaster look a bit stupid if they forced Sevco into the second tier and they went bust?

[jonty]

The whole Div1 thing irks me. Like it does many others :greengrin
If they're being 'parachuted' into Div1 (or any other division) because they are 'rangers' then surely, because they're carrying the historical branding, then they should be punished for historical deeds.
Let them keep their history and all the jazz, but take the punishments (if/when they're finally worked out).
If they dont want any punishments (ranging from didly squat, through to expulsion) then they shouldnt be trated any differently from any other club who are appkying for SFA licence and application for SFL.

Yes - they'll claim not be rangers, but have their fanbase, access to stadium etc etc (unless Green sells them off to cover the costs he's already incurred), and we know they'll be calling themselves 'rangers' within months. (In fact they've done it already - on the back of the SPL presentation/pamphlet it stated 'We Are Rangers'.)

On a more lighthearted note...
http://t.co/lBovRNpP
An architects 3D digital visualisation of Ibrox in 2013.

[Saorsa]

The new Sticky Buns have only sold 250 season tickets

http://www.dailyrecord.co.uk/2012/07/06/rangers-in-crisis-charles-green-faces-15m-black-hole-after-just-250-season-tickets-are-sold-86908-23904912/

Wouldn't Regan and Doncaster look a bit stupid if they forced Sevco into the second tier and they went bust?you mean they dinnae already? :wink:

[ScottB]

This is scandalous, and another indicator of the ineptitude of the footballing authorities in Scotland. The BBC pay Alan Hansen more than the entire SPL.



http://t.co/L2akVnqM

https://twitter.com/tonymckelvie/status/221146753758535680

https://twitter.com/tonymckelvie/status/221147200615485440

https://twitter.com/tonymckelvie/status/221147735565406209

I don't see the issue to be honest.

The first article there, what do attendances matter, it's number of viewers that Sky / BBC are interested in.

How much it pays it's pundits like Hansen to do 2 or 3 shows a week + tournaments, or Lineaker to host various sports shows are again largely irrelevant. In any case the stuff they present will be watched by many, many more people than ever tune into our stuff.


For the BBC and Sky, EPL football is a viewer winner. They pay top dollar to keep their access to the top ratings draw, they need to show it. They show our game because they've gotten a decent price and feel like showing it. We have no position of strength to negotiate from, and that is reflected in the prices we get. It's a business, not a charity.


Besides, we need to be moving away from dependence on TV cash that will always screw our game up with daft kick off times and the like, not get out the begging bowl for more.

[rcarter1]

This is scandalous, and another indicator of the ineptitude of the footballing authorities in Scotland. The BBC pay Alan Hansen more than the entire SPL.



http://t.co/L2akVnqM

https://twitter.com/tonymckelvie/status/221146753758535680

https://twitter.com/tonymckelvie/status/221147200615485440

https://twitter.com/tonymckelvie/status/221147735565406209


Crackin stuff! Its quite astonishing to see how undervalued Scottish football is if the figures presented are true. This is pretty concrete evidence that those responsible for representing the Scottish game have failed miserably.

[marinello59]

I don't like the idea of Rangers being admitted straight into the first division but lets think logically about the options.

If Rangers start in the third division, which is where they realistically should be starting, what are the options regarding change to the game?
The SPL would now have 11 clubs that could change the way the top league works which is excellent. They could force through major changes regarding wealth distribution and ensure a more competitive league. What would happen to the structure of the SFL? Would it just not be the same old but with Rangers ploughing through the leagues back to the top division. All they would get would be a pay day or two for one season and that would be it....the SPL would still be this cut-off entity.

If Rangers, rightly or wrongly, were to start in the first the promised changes would be binding as far as the SFL is concerned. The SPL clubs would still outnumber Celtic so major changes could still be voted through in this years period that Rangers are absent. All this stuff about clubs going to the wall would go away. It might be mince but if we're talking purely money then surely clubs are more financially secure with all the "good" that Rangers and the old firm bring.

New Rangers will enter at some level and it's mental to suggest anyone like Spartans should take priority over them. Lets get real.

If they enter the third with no sanctions they will be in the top flight, free of debt and free to compete in Europe in season 15/16.

If they enter the first they will be in the SPL next season but will barred from Europe until 15/16. They will also have certain sanctions and will have to pay back all their footballing debts.

I don't think the "newco for D1" proposals are fair but if clubs were to vote for them to be admitted to the first division on the condition that HEAVIER sanctions were to be enforced, would it not suit everyone? The SPL have already blurred the lines so why not something like a 20 point penalty regardless of what division they are in for the next 4 years?

We'll all feel cleansed and like we have done something right if they are admitted to the third but think about where they will be in four years time. Regardless of how the vote goes they will be at the top of the SPL along with Celtic. Even if a perfect system of wealth distribution was to evolve in the years they are out of the top league that system would still see them near the top.
Rangers will now be OK regardless of what league they are in. Everyone at the club now wants to go to the bottom rung and you have to ask why. Is it because it will be better for them in the long run if they spend a few years in the doldrums and there is a big chance that the duopoly state of affairs and way of mind will still apply when they get back to the top?

I'm playing devils advocate big time but surely the main issues should be league reconstruction and seizing the opportunities while they exist. If the authorities are throwing deals at clubs to admit Rangers into league one then surely they have more to offer. The SFL and SPL clubs now know that the footballing authorities in Scotland are desperate so why don't we get together and go for their throats, forcing REAL change and not just these tit-bits?

The league Rangers play in is important in principal but it can also be viewed as a bargaining tool for the rest of us to use. A side-issue even when it comes to the momentous change that we can effect if we all put our heads together and realise the power we have collectively. Any board worth their salt should smell blood and be on the phone to their counterparts in the same division and discussing what changes we should be asking for...or even demanding!

Starting in SFL3 is the best option for Rangers. They will emerge from that even stronger and Scottish Football will have gained nothing in the meantime. What a sad waste of a golden opportunity for revolutionary reform that would have benefited our game in the long term.

[Speedway]

Anyone who reckons Rod doesn't care about the club should look at the way he dressed for the Chairman's meeting at Hampden the other day:

http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/scottish-premier

[Beefster]

I'm exactly the same when I see FACT ENDOF!

I was just being sarcy.
On a serious note, I've discussed the statement at length with the Chairman of Stenny (definitely not a Hun apologist Stevie) and their view is based solely on income projections. Losing the SPL payments - which is what will happen - means they will be finished.

The SPL payment is backed up by legal documentation AFAIK and the SFA/FIFA would probably have to get involved if it was withheld. Let's call a spade a spade - the Stenhousemuir Board have pissed their pants and taken Regan/Doncaster's chat at face value without really analysing the situation much (despite their attempt to justify the decision).


This is scandalous, and another indicator of the ineptitude of the footballing authorities in Scotland. The BBC pay Alan Hansen more than the entire SPL.



http://t.co/L2akVnqM

https://twitter.com/tonymckelvie/status/221146753758535680

https://twitter.com/tonymckelvie/status/221147200615485440

https://twitter.com/tonymckelvie/status/221147735565406209

What are the viewing figures for Sportscene versus MOTD?

[Lungo--Drom]

What a way to end a hard night shift, coming across this pro-Hun drivel on the STV website:

http://m.stv.tv/sport/football/109515-rangers-fans-ask-where-is-the-sporting-integrity/

Is there no end to total pish and drivel these pro-Hun Weedgie hacks will spout? In future all sports journalists should be vetted and any personal interests should be recorded, be it fan or shareholder of a club. Hopefully that way there might be less complete pish like the above article.

[calum.mcd]

The SPL doesn't work IMO, never has. Scottish football's got steadily worse since it went to the smaller league format. We need bigger divisions, be it 16, 18 or 20 teams. My preference would be for a top league of 20 and a second division of 22 (mainly based on the number of league clubs that we had before Rangers went bust). The main reason that we can't get to that is the club's insistence that they need the four home games against the Weejies to generate income. With Newrangers out of the picture for at least three years that should finally put paid to that argument. The way I see it, it gives two or three years to sort out the league structuring and get in a system that works. The whole set-up needs revised, but they need to get it right this time. To rush changes through in a couple of weeks will just screw things up even more, to do it to benefit one club, however they dress it up, is morally wrong.

[Beefster]

What a way to end a hard night shift, coming across this pro-Hun drivel on the STV website:

http://m.stv.tv/sport/football/109515-rangers-fans-ask-where-is-the-sporting-integrity/

Is there no end to total pish and drivel these pro-Hun Weedgie hacks will spout? In future all sports journalists should be vetted and any personal interests should be recorded, be it fan or shareholder of a club. Hopefully that way there might be less complete pish like the above article.

The author isn't a "pro-Hun Weedgie hack". As it says at the bottom of the article, he's a Rangers-supporting blogger.

[EuanH78]

I agree that the idea is about as likely to happen as a Scottish summer. However my point is that 15.7 million - should that indeed be the sum, is not as hard to get a hold as the Roncasters are making it out to be. I do however disagree with your assessment that individual clubs are not in danger. Im sure that a few clubs like Kilmarnock, Motherwell, St Mirren are squirming pretty bad at the financial consequences of Rangers starting in the third division. They may all get through without administration, but on the other hand they might not. My point is that for clubs of that size, that may be put over the edge for reasons not of their making, it should be possible to find benefactors capable of tiding them over until they can sort out their finances.

I do agree that the SPL is seriously flawed and that many of those people running the game have been found wanting. Wherever Rangers end up, the game as a whole has a mandate for orchestrating real lasting changes for the better.

I think I presented my point poorly to be honest. You are right that some clubs (SPL & SFL) will struggle. However, Doncaster and Regan are acting only out of self interest - to preserve the SPL, which without Rangers is a dead duck.

The other clubs do not figure at all in their thoughts I suspect. It is a convenient tool for them to wave around though, the SPL and Scottish football are not the same thing.

The SPL has shown to be a fundamentally flawed business and needs to be scrapped - for something with less onus on the big(oted) 2. This current direction is killing scottish football and has been doing so for decades. Bring on the fallout from its demise if you ask me.

Get rid of those 2 for people with more vision, all my opinion of course.

[Hibercelona]

Anyone who reckons Rod doesn't care about the club should look at the way he dressed for the Chairman's meeting at Hampden the other day:

http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/scottish-premier

:faf:

:top marks

[jonty]

Anyone who reckons Rod doesn't care about the club should look at the way he dressed for the Chairman's meeting at Hampden the other day:

http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/scottish-premier

:thumbsup: :faf:

[Saorsa]

Anyone who reckons Rod doesn't care about the club should look at the way he dressed for the Chairman's meeting at Hampden the other day:

http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/scottish-premier:hilarious

[Peevemor]

Anyone who reckons Rod doesn't care about the club should look at the way he dressed for the Chairman's meeting at Hampden the other day:

http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/scottish-premier

Brilliant! :thumbsup:

[Lungo--Drom]

I agree with what you are saying about the wasted opportunity but do you definitely think they will just bounce up the ladder each year and be back in the SPL for the 2015/16 season? Reading some of the links to some of their forums that have been posted on here there seems to be a move from infighting that was going on last week to a growing depression and sense of the stark realities now arriving at Edmiston Drive. If Stewart Regan is to be believed they will abandon the terraces and start running amok with machetes and samurai swords looking for "taig *****", to quote one lovely fellow on one of their forums.

Back to the wasted opportunity of a ground up reconstruction, who would be able to make a success of such a plan? Clearly not the SFA or the SPL and the SFL couldn't do it alone. I admit aforehand that I might be daydreaming in a Stalinist/totalitarian frame of mind but surely only government level intervention could give a right good slap to the heid of the SPL/SFL/SFA and force through a ground upwards total restructuring of the professional game?


Starting in SFL3 is the best option for Rangers. They will emerge from that even stronger and Scottish Football will have gained nothing in the meantime. What a sad waste of a golden opportunity for revolutionary reform that would have benefited our game in the long term.

[Brightside]

Far too many "pro" team in scotland imho. One league of 20. With regional play-offs to get into it every year. 2 out every year. 2 up every year. Scottish football needs to change, and needs to stop depending on the old firm for cash.

[Lungo--Drom]

Am on my phone on a train and couldn't find the photo via the link. What was RP wearing? A green t-shirt with "**** The Huns" right across the chest? :faf:


Brilliant! :thumbsup:

[Simster]

Crackin stuff! Its quite astonishing to see how undervalued Scottish football is if the figures presented are true. This is pretty concrete evidence that those responsible for representing the Scottish game have failed miserably.The real problem is the perception elsewhere in the UK that all the other teams in the SPL are mere cannon fodder for the Old Firm. Consequently, I'd imagine the BBC are only really interested in showing Old Firm derby highlights for the benefit of everyone else. It's such a shame - back in the 80s, there was genuine competition in Scotland, until Rangers changed everything by buying English international first division players. A league with relative parity is of far more interest to everyone else than a tiresome two-team procession.

[rcarter1]

Get rid of those 2 for people with more vision, all my opinion of course.[/QUOTE]

Agreed, if they can only come up with 3 million pounds for the rights to SPL football, including Celtic and their international following is really pathetic.

[oldbutdim]

Am on my phone on a train and couldn't find the photo via the link. What was RP wearing? A green t-shirt with "**** The Huns" right across the chest? :faf:

I don't see any picture of Rod in that link.
:confused:

Ah.

Now I do...................


Very good.

[Twiglet]

What's happened with the double contracts investigation? Surely they still need to complete that? If old rangers are found guilty was the punishment not expulsion from the spl/sfa/sfa? If that's the case surely they have to wait for the outsome of that, decide the appropriate punishment and if that's expulsion then a newco couldn't replace them. Or am I completely off the mark?

[Peevemor]

I don't see any picture of Rod in that link.
:confused:

He's at the bottom of the stairway. :wink:

[oldbutdim]

He's at the bottom of the stairway. :wink:

Now I have a 'big screen' I see it. :aok:

Excellent.

:greengrin

[rcarter1]

I don't see the issue to be honest.
To be fair I think there is a pretty big issue, in terms of deciding whether Scottish football is getting value for money.

The first article there, what do attendances matter, it's number of viewers that Sky / BBC are interested in.
Attendances are used in the article to indicate level of interest in that particular league. Agreed that this is not the be all and end all, but its a useful starting point to predict what TV revenues might be.

How much it pays it's pundits like Hansen to do 2 or 3 shows a week + tournaments, or Lineaker to host various sports shows are again largely irrelevant. In any case the stuff they present will be watched by many, many more people than ever tune into our stuff.

agreed

For the BBC and Sky, EPL football is a viewer winner. They pay top dollar to keep their access to the top ratings draw, they need to show it.

agreed

They show our game because they've gotten a decent price and feel like showing it. We have no position of strength to negotiate from, and that is reflected in the prices we get. It's a business, not a charity.

You are right that they have got a decent price. In fact they may have got a bargain basement steal. They will negotiate for as little as they can. However Scottish football may not have gotten a fair price, if the deals were not negotiated by strong, intelligent, knowledgeable and experienced people.

Besides, we need to be moving away from dependence on TV cash that will always screw our game up with daft kick off times and the like, not get out the begging bowl for more.

This I totally agree with, however as a point of principle Scottish football should not undersell itself. We are a backwater of football compared to England, Spain etc. But do we compare so badly compared to Austria, Hungary, Sweden etc? Honestly, the Old Firm games have higher profile than what happens in these leagues and our leaders should have been able to secure us much more (which paradoxically could have left us even worse now).

To summarise: There is a strong and important case to be made from the figures presented that Scottish football could get more money they are currently receiving, but it requires people who are capable of realising that potential to negotiate it.

[ScottB]

This I totally agree with, however as a point of principle Scottish football should not undersell itself. We are a backwater of football compared to England, Spain etc. But do we compare so badly compared to Austria, Hungary, Sweden etc? Honestly, the Old Firm games have higher profile than what happens in these leagues and our leaders should have been able to secure us much more (which paradoxically could have left us even worse now).

To summarise: There is a strong and important case to be made from the figures presented that Scottish football could get more money they are currently receiving, but it requires people who are capable of realising that potential to negotiate it.

Perhaps, but it is all about market forces.

For the EPL, Sky know that if they ever failed to get the rights, they'd lose vast amounts of business overnight. They also know that there are other companies, the most recent time 3 others (BT, ESPN, Al Jazerra) in the running too. So they will bid the most they can to make sure they keep their prize. There is no other choice for them.

Our current TV deal was negotiated when the league basically had none (the BBC deal), the only two in the running (Sky and ESPN) joined forces. They had all the strength, to win the rights just meant offering more than the BBC deal had been. Whether it was less than the league is worth doesn't really matter, because nobody else wanted the rights.


Going forward, Sky may want to bid again, and I could see BT wanting a go to bolster their football offering in the same way ESPN did when they won EPL rights. If we can get those two into a bidding war, maybe we will get a good deal. If they join forces as Sky and ESPN did, then we will just have to take whatever they are willing to bid.

[Hibbyradge]

The prospect of Rangers retaining the titles and trophies they won whilst cheating, is making me feel physically sick.

[Saorsa]

Starting in SFL3 is the best option for Rangers. They will emerge from that even stronger and Scottish Football will have gained nothing in the meantime. What a sad waste of a golden opportunity for revolutionary reform that would have benefited our game in the long term.Can we no have a revolutionary reform with them in division 3? What's wrong with having them in division 3 and then having the reform with them still starting at the bottom of the new set up!

Sorry, daft idea, there'd be nae discussion and nae will for it from the authorities if it wisnae tae try and invent a fudge for them. You ken it and I ken it. The only reform they wanted was a 10 team league tae stack things even further in favour of the OF. New teams start at the bottom, that's the rules and if we cannae have change without bending or breaking those rules why bother? What happens if they find another way tae cheat and get caught again 10 years down the line, will we change the rules and reorganise again because they must win and be at the top at all costs? No for me!

Change because it's needed, yes, change tae accommodate the return of (in all but name) cheats, NO!

[hibs0666]

When the dust settles on the Rangers shambles, and some of the main actors are inevitably moved on, the time will come to re-think the Scottish football business model.

As it stands Scottish football is attempting to go toe-to-toe with English football for eyeballs, TV deals and commercial interest. This strategy has shown to have failed and has led us into a 20 year cycle of decline. If Scottish football is to thrive it must be prepared to re-consider every aspect of the business model and be prepared to adopt radical change.

[Northern Hibby]

I don't see any picture of Rod in that link.
:confused:

Ah.

Now I do...................


Very good.

took me ages not enough caffine yet :rolleyes:

[StevieC]

I don't think the "newco for D1" proposals are fair but if clubs were to vote for them to be admitted to the first division on the condition that HEAVIER sanctions were to be enforced, would it not suit everyone? The SPL have already blurred the lines so why not something like a 20 point penalty regardless of what division they are in for the next 4 years?

I'm starting to lose track here ..

Have they actually proposed any sanctions for Division 1 entry?

Would those sanctions be enforceable (legally/NewCo)?

I still feel that Div3 is the "right" route to take, but it's NOT a punishment it's a consequence of actions.
After reading your post I might consider a Div1 entry, but ONLY if the sanctions WERE a punishment and that they were severe enough that the only ones to gain would be the other teams.
It would also have to include a larger league and fairer distribution of money.

[Saorsa]

When the dust settles on the Rangers shambles, and some of the main actors are inevitably moved on, the time will come to re-think the Scottish football business model.

As it stands Scottish football is attempting to go toe-to-toe with English football for eyeballs, TV deals and commercial interest. This strategy has shown to have failed and has led us into a 20 year cycle of decline. If Scottish football is to thrive it must be prepared to re-consider every aspect of the business model and be prepared to adopt radical change.Where dae we find these people tae implement that, I wonder, the majority of people currently involved with Scottish fitba cannae see past the end of their ain nose.

[Part/Time Supporter]

When the dust settles on the Rangers shambles, and some of the main actors are inevitably moved on, the time will come to re-think the Scottish football business model.

As it stands Scottish football is attempting to go toe-to-toe with English football for eyeballs, TV deals and commercial interest. This strategy has shown to have failed and has led us into a 20 year cycle of decline. If Scottish football is to thrive it must be prepared to re-consider every aspect of the business model and be prepared to adopt radical change.

:agree:

Yet you have Doncaster and Regan trying to re-float the Titanic, despite clear evidence that "new Rangers" will probably collapse within 12 months.

Scottish football should be trying to fill a niche. Switching to a summer season, when there are 3 months without EPL and naff all on Sky, is a no-brainer.

[hibs0666]

Where dae we find these people tae implement that, I wonder, the majority of people currently involved with Scottish fitba cannae see past the end of their ain nose.

People are naturally resistant to change. If individuals act to block change then they need to be swapped out, simple as that. Doncaster and Regan have done a stout job of defending the existing failed business model and by dint have shown that they are absolutely the wrong people to drive the Scottish professional game forward from the situation that we are now in.

More enlightened leaders would have recognised the new reality enabled by social media and created a new vision for the SPL and Scottish football that put supporters at the very core. Sadly that has not happened and, when the Rangers situation is finally played out, we will be left with a bloody great void where a compelling vision and strategic plan should be.

[Hibercelona]

The prospect of Rangers retaining the titles and trophies they won whilst cheating, is making me feel physically sick.

That can't happen, it would be illegal. :deal:










































On second thought...... :rolleyes:

[rcarter1]

I agree with all your points regarding market forces, and why the EPL is able to command the amount that they get.

Going forward, Sky may want to bid again, and I could see BT wanting a go to bolster their football offering in the same way ESPN did when they won EPL rights. If we can get those two into a bidding war, maybe we will get a good deal. If they join forces as Sky and ESPN did, then we will just have to take whatever they are willing to bid.[/QUOTE]

This sounds like the beginnings of a strategy. It would be of interest to research how and why countries of similar size to us (and the lack of the big reputations), could achieve the deals that they get. As a starting point, if Scottish football were to look into its own television package, we could then see how the likes of ESPN, Sky etc respond. If they shrug their shoulders and walk away, then fair enough they weren't that interested anyway.

[jonty]

Am on my phone on a train and couldn't find the photo via the link. What was RP wearing? A green t-shirt with "**** The Huns" right across the chest? :faf:


8414

(click for bigger picture)

[poolman]

Somebody please stop me clicking the links to rankgersmedia. Its hunbelievable.
Its depressing i feel like dissinfecting my eyes. What a *****ty little country we live in.
This is the sort of filth that is allowed on their main messageboard.
http://forum.rangersmedia.co.uk/index.php?showtopic=230429&st=0

I've heard folk talk about celtc and rankger fans as being as bad as each other. I'm sorry but that is utter garbage.
During this whole shambolic state of affairs i've looked on kerrydale street a few times to see any info or breaking stories and from what i can see the vast majority seem to be normal fitba fans and mostly sentient human beings. Yes i can find them smug, self righteous and bloody irritating at times but, my god, the barely literate, ignorant, vermin that inhabit the hun message boards are just disgusting. (I'm led to believe that swallow swallow is even worse - but as they 'hide' their views from the public i cant confirm).
If anyone thinks otherwise please find and post anything from kds that comes close to that sort of nasty, intolerant bile.
That whole stinking club are a magnet and a natural home to all sorts of prejudices and small minded bigots. They embody everything that is wrong with society.

If celtc are itching powder, then the huns are pure f****** poison.

Hurry up and die in the gutter you backward f****** weirdos.


They perhaps should stop all this in Govan :greengrin


http://nepaliaashish.wordpress.com/2007/05/30/human-inbreeding-what-are-the-consequences/

[calmac12000]

If the situations were reversed and Celtic were in Rangers position instead, do you think the behaviour of their fans would really differ that much?

It's no real shock that Celtic fans seem like the far "nicer" bunch right now. Their most hated club are going down the toilet and it would be the exact same for Rangers fans if the roles were reversed.

Rangers fans would seem like decent chaps if Celtic were heading into oblivion instead.

I disagree entirely, whilst I have no particular love for Celtic or indeed their fans I think it is erroneus and simplistic to equate both clubs as two cheeks of the same arse.
1. The present situation has absolutely nothing to do with Celtic, or indeed any other club it is entirely caused by the actions of one club i.e. Rangers.
2. The level of sectarian hatred and bile that emanates from around Ibrox is frankly unacceptable in this day and age. I am frankly amazed, as someone who practise no religion that absolutely no comment has been uttered by the football authorities or anyone else about the requirements of any NewCo to be not merely non-sectarian but positivly anti-sectarian. The efforts made officialy by Rangers have effectively been a chimera, as the contents of their fans websites reveals. The police should be looking at these website and the hate they purvey as a matter of some urgency. Their is no analogous website that I am aware of linked to Celtic or their supporters.
In my over forty years of supporting Scottish football I have only ever encountered sectarian behaviour afrom three sets of supporters namely the Huns, the Hertz and ****dee.
This is not to give a clean bill of health to Celtic, their supporters arrogance and their predilictions of some of them for the Provisional IRA are not to my mind acceotable sportingaffiliations.

[ScottB]

I agree with all your points regarding market forces, and why the EPL is able to command the amount that they get.

This sounds like the beginnings of a strategy. It would be of interest to research how and why countries of similar size to us (and the lack of the big reputations), could achieve the deals that they get. As a starting point, if Scottish football were to look into its own television package, we could then see how the likes of ESPN, Sky etc respond. If they shrug their shoulders and walk away, then fair enough they weren't that interested anyway.

Most other leagues aren't part of a larger country with a truly massive league also sharing broadcast space. That's the key difference.

While say, Denmark, Belgium etc have similar sized leagues, they are their own countries, with their own TV providers. Our TV providers are UK wide, so the attraction / distraction of the EPL reigns supreme.

[blackpoolhibs]

I wish folk would stop talking about Rangers/newco being punished, the only teams who'd be punished would be the teams whose promotion chances to the premier division are drastically reduced, should the cheats be admitted to Div 1.:rolleyes:

[Lungo--Drom]

That photo is pure comedy genius! It's like finally being able to look at that footage/photo of the JFK assassination and see who the figure is at the fence behind the grassy knoll :faf: :faf: :faf:

http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/scottish-
premier


He's at the bottom of the stairway. :wink:

[Hibercelona]

I disagree entirely, whilst I have no particular love for Celtic or indeed their fans I think it is erroneus and simplistic to equate both clubs as two cheeks of the same arse.
1. The present situation has absolutely nothing to do with Celtic, or indeed any other club it is entirely caused by the actions of one club i.e. Rangers.
2. The level of sectarian hatred and bile that emanates from around Ibrox is frankly unacceptable in this day and age. I am frankly amazed, as someone who practise no religion that absolutely no comment has been uttered by the football authorities or anyone else about the requirements of any NewCo to be not merely non-sectarian but positivly anti-sectarian. The efforts made officialy by Rangers have effectively been a chimera, as the contents of their fans websites reveals. The police should be looking at these website and the hate they purvey as a matter of some urgency. Their is no analogous website that I am aware of linked to Celtic or their supporters.
In my over forty years of supporting Scottish football I have only ever encountered sectarian behaviour afrom three sets of supporters namely the Huns, the Hertz and ****dee.
This is not to give a clean bill of health to Celtic, their supporters arrogance and their predilictions of some of them for the Provisional IRA are not to my mind acceotable sportingaffiliations.

I'm not talking about sectarianism though. I'm talking about a club thats blatantly trying to cheat their way back into the Scottish Leagues for going out of business for cheating in the first place and Rangers fans having the arrogance to think that this is the way it should be.

It would be no different if it was Celtic. Celtic fans may have a secterian element to a far lesser degree, but their fans are just as arrogant and big headed as their pals across the city.

They would be trying to cheat their way back in as well if it was them in this situation. Neither club knows anything about sporting integrity.

Personally I hope Rangers disappear forever and Celtic follow them. :aok:

[Crazyhorse]

That photo is pure comedy genius! It's like finally being able to look at that footage/photo of the JFK assassination and see who the figure is at the fence behind the grassy knoll :faf: :faf: :faf:

http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/scottish-
premier

Yes great spot. Laugh out loud moment :top marks

[VickMackie]

If we only get 3 million we should just scrap the tv deal. I'm sure that could be made up by more fans going to the games they would have watched on tv.

I don't spend 28 quid or whatever going to watch the OF against us cos it's on tv. I'll pay to go to the hearts games though.

Fuller stadiums, better atmospheres against the big teams will draw fans back. Cut tv off if that's what we are going to get.

[Hibercelona]

What stadium will Rangers be playing their home games at this season?

Or has it not been decided yet? :confused:

[poolman]

Fat Ally wants Sevco to start their new life in Division 3
link to bbc (http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/football/18730809)

Also in the Sun there was a bit more and he said this :bitchy:


“There is no one more angry, embarrassed or apologetic than me. This should not have happened to our football club".

I must have missed that :rolleyes:

[CropleyWasGod]

What stadium will Rangers be playing their home games at this season?

Or has it not been decided yet? :confused:

Nobody outside of the RFC/Sevco circle even knows who owns Ibrox. :greengrin

[Hibercelona]

Nobody outside of the RFC/Sevco circle even knows who owns Ibrox. :greengrin

Well it certainly won't be them that own it.

They couldn't own a set of goal posts without going bust right now. :wink:

[Hibernia&Alba]

Interesting reports of Rangers season ticket sales of only 250 so far. They can't get the facilities for direct debit or even card payments, so it's cash only.

[PatHead]

Is it just me. I keep hearing that the SPL have dumped the problem in the SFL's lap.

The facts are Rangers are going into liquidation and will be unable to complete their fixtures for next season. The SPL have refused to transfer Rangers share to a Newco as they don't meet criteria. A club will now be invited to join the SPL from SFL first division creating a vacancy in the SFL.

As I understand it the SFL have decided to hold a vote on which Division they are to join. This has nothing to do with the SPL. The SPL were invited to talk at an EGM and sent Doncaster along. The SFL did not need to hold such a vote, they could if they had chosen followed precedents and simply invited applications to join the SFL, considered them and invited a club to join in the 3rd division.

I just don't understand why they (the SFL) have put such pressure on their member clubs. The problem is of their own making by considering a special case for the club formally known as Rangers.

I think the head of the SFL (Longmuir) is just as culpable as Doncaster and Regan. Any weazling he does now should not excuse this and I hope to God he doesn't get the SFA job when it is vacated by Regan in the event of all these amalgamations.

[Caversham Green]

And here's why I thought Charles Green had a hand in that document...

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/sport/football/teams/rangers/9379754/Rangers-in-crisis-Friday-the-13th-could-be-particularly-unlucky-for-Ibrox-newco.html

Also an outline of the SFL voting process.

[CropleyWasGod]

And here's why I thought Charles Green had a hand in that document...

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/sport/football/teams/rangers/9379754/Rangers-in-crisis-Friday-the-13th-could-be-particularly-unlucky-for-Ibrox-newco.html

Also an outline of the SFL voting process.

"Longmuir also revealed details of the voting process that will be applied. The first vote will decide if the SFL can accept Rangers, with a simple majority required.

If that ballot is in favour of a Rangers application, it will be, according to Longmuir, “supplemented by further resolutions that we would have to implement to change our rules."

So... say 51% vote them in. They then have to change the rules to make that possible. If those rule changes require, say, 75% approval.....you see where I'm going with this :greengrin

[jonty]

Is it just me. I keep hearing that the SPL have dumped the problem in the SFL's lap.

The facts are Rangers are going into liquidation and will be unable to complete their fixtures for next season. The SPL have refused to transfer Rangers share to a Newco as they don't meet criteria. A club will now be invited to join the SPL from SFL first division creating a vacancy in the SFL.

As I understand it the SFL have decided to hold a vote on which Division they are to join. This has nothing to do with the SPL. The SPL were invited to talk at an EGM and sent Doncaster along. The SFL did not need to hold such a vote, they could if they had chosen followed precedents and simply invited applications to join the SFL, considered them and invited a club to join in the 3rd division.

I just don't understand why they (the SFL) have put such pressure on their member clubs. The problem is of their own making by considering a special case for the club formally known as Rangers.

I think the head of the SFL (Longmuir) is just as culpable as Doncaster and Regan. Any weazling he does now should not excuse this and I hope to God he doesn't get the SFA job when it is vacated by Regan in the event of all these amalgamations.

The SPL should have reported Rangers to the SFA.
The SFA should have stepped in by now and concluded the EBT/Dual contract nonsense. They should have delt with the transfer embargo/court nonsense by now too.
That way, all the SPL/SFL would have to deal with would an application to join the league.

Instead, they get an application with added pressure from SFA/SPL and little time to sort out fixtures, internal league promotions for potential gap in Div1 etc.
The SFL should also have the team ready to fill the SPL vacancy (if there is to be one). Time is marching on and no progress appears to be made.

Complete nonsense. And what happened to Hector and his investigation?

[Caversham Green]

"Longmuir also revealed details of the voting process that will be applied. The first vote will decide if the SFL can accept Rangers, with a simple majority required.

If that ballot is in favour of a Rangers application, it will be, according to Longmuir, “supplemented by further resolutions that we would have to implement to change our rules."

So... say 51% vote them in. They then have to change the rules to make that possible. If those rule changes require, say, 75% approval.....you see where I'm going with this :greengrin

Yep, that'll confuse them.

Presumably the change of rules is to let them into SFL1 rather than SFL3, so if vote 1 is less than the 75% (assuming that's the majority needed) there's no point in holding vote 2.

[green glory]

Imagine they didn't get the votes to get into the SFL at all.

The ideal scenario IMO.

[CropleyWasGod]

Complete nonsense. And what happened to Hector and his investigation?

I suspect it's in abeyance for the moment, for lots of reasons.