Generic Sevco / Rangers meltdown thread

[CabbageBoy]

The entire approach to this hinges on the nonsense lie: "what's good for Rangers (or Celtic) is good for the game in Scotland." Therefore, those club(s) are to given special treatment at any cost; even in the face of being caught cheating and swindling, the objective is restore 'normal' business as soon as possible. The reality is that those clubs and their sectarian-led duopoly has been slowly strangling the game for years, a decline the Huns have exacerbated by applying the tourniquet of theft and deceit to this shabby state of affairs.

People who do not want to take part in this circus of bigotry have been drifting away from Scottish football for years. If they finally want to destroy the game, losing the bulk of the support of every other club, will do more damage to those clubs than the loss of a few thousand Huns in each ground twice a season.

I don't think they believe the majority of Scottish football fans when they say that if they rubber stamp this WWF league, then it's game over and the kids get their EPL/La Liga/Serie A tops and two trips to the continent a year and a SKY package instead of this ***** we're looking for almost any excuse to ditch anyway.

The stupidest thing you can do when you're drinking in the last chance saloon is to start playing Russian roulette, and that is exactly what the balloons who purport to run our game are doing.

This.

Huns in 3, and I probably will buy a ST, even if I dont get a chance to go along much. Huns in 1, and MOTD will be my only football watching next year.

[SteveHFC]

http://i38.photobucket.com/albums/e135/stuartm65/baws.jpg

[Brando7]

Someone correct me here but D&P not sell assets & players to Sevco 5088? if so why has Sevco Scotland sent a membership application?

[SteveHFC]

Enter this into Google image search:

the big rangers administration thread

Bet you smile. Bet you do. Every last one of you will smile as you waft your cursor over each image. I guarantee it :agree:

[SteveHFC]

http://www.express.c...or-the-basement (http://www.express.co.uk/posts/view/329829/Gers-heading-for-the-basement) :thumbsup:

[gramskiwood]

:top marks
The entire approach to this hinges on the nonsense lie: "what's good for Rangers (or Celtic) is good for the game in Scotland." Therefore, those club(s) are to given special treatment at any cost; even in the face of being caught cheating and swindling, the objective is restore 'normal' business as soon as possible. The reality is that those clubs and their sectarian-led duopoly has been slowly strangling the game for years, a decline the Huns have exacerbated by applying the tourniquet of theft and deceit to this shabby state of affairs.

People who do not want to take part in this circus of bigotry have been drifting away from Scottish football for years. If they finally want to destroy the game, losing the bulk of the support of every other club, will do more damage to those clubs than the loss of a few thousand Huns in each ground twice a season.

I don't think they believe the majority of Scottish football fans when they say that if they rubber stamp this WWF league, then it's game over and the kids get their EPL/La Liga/Serie A tops and two trips to the continent a year and a SKY package instead of this ***** we're looking for almost any excuse to ditch anyway.

The stupidest thing you can do when you're drinking in the last chance saloon is to start playing Russian roulette, and that is exactly what the balloons who purport to run our game are doing.

[tamig]

More analysis of the SFL proposal document.......

http://wingsland.podgamer.com/the-lead-parachute/

I'm sure the boards of the SFL clubs are more than capable of seeing through the outlandish proposal doc for what it is, but this link should be emailed to each and every club - SPL and SFL. It nails it perfectly.

[SteveHFC]

Sorry if already posted but I was playing Monopoly earlier..

http://www.pieandbovril.com/forum/uploads/monthly_06_2012/post-6423-0-68238600-1341016883_thumb.jpg (http://www.pieandbovril.com/forum/index.php?app=core&module=attach&section=attach&attach_rel_module=post&attach_id=69144)

[HibeeB]

The entire approach to this hinges on the nonsense lie: "what's good for Rangers (or Celtic) is good for the game in Scotland." Therefore, those club(s) are to given special treatment at any cost; even in the face of being caught cheating and swindling, the objective is restore 'normal' business as soon as possible. The reality is that those clubs and their sectarian-led duopoly has been slowly strangling the game for years, a decline the Huns have exacerbated by applying the tourniquet of theft and deceit to this shabby state of affairs.

People who do not want to take part in this circus of bigotry have been drifting away from Scottish football for years. If they finally want to destroy the game, losing the bulk of the support of every other club, will do more damage to those clubs than the loss of a few thousand Huns in each ground twice a season.

I don't think they believe the majority of Scottish football fans when they say that if they rubber stamp this WWF league, then it's game over and the kids get their EPL/La Liga/Serie A tops and two trips to the continent a year and a SKY package instead of this ***** we're looking for almost any excuse to ditch anyway.

The stupidest thing you can do when you're drinking in the last chance saloon is to start playing Russian roulette, and that is exactly what the balloons who purport to run our game are doing.

Superb analysis and analogy.

And can I just take this opportunity to say **** the Huns.

[reservoir hibee]

Can you PM your mailing list? I think I would like to offer my support to the SFL clubs as well.

me too


also uefa and fifa and sfl.spl.sfa ones if you dont mind

time for me to get my email on!!!!!





cheers

dave

[s.a.m]

The entire approach to this hinges on the nonsense lie: "what's good for Rangers (or Celtic) is good for the game in Scotland." Therefore, those club(s) are to given special treatment at any cost; even in the face of being caught cheating and swindling, the objective is restore 'normal' business as soon as possible. The reality is that those clubs and their sectarian-led duopoly has been slowly strangling the game for years, a decline the Huns have exacerbated by applying the tourniquet of theft and deceit to this shabby state of affairs.

People who do not want to take part in this circus of bigotry have been drifting away from Scottish football for years. If they finally want to destroy the game, losing the bulk of the support of every other club, will do more damage to those clubs than the loss of a few thousand Huns in each ground twice a season.

I don't think they believe the majority of Scottish football fans when they say that if they rubber stamp this WWF league, then it's game er and the kids get their EPL/La Liga/Serie A tops and two trips to the continent a year and a SKY package instead of this ***** we're looking for almost any excuse to ditch anyway.

The stupidest thing you can do when you're drinking in the last chance saloon is to start playing Russian roulette, and that is exactly what the balloons who purport to run our game are doing.

Well put, Bob.
I heard Chris Brookmyre on the radio a few months back, saying that he can't remember a time when there was such a big disconnect between the football authorities / media and the fanbase, since the period that resulted in the creation of fanzines. I - and everyone else I know who follows a non old firm team - struggle to justify the time and money to attend. Everyone, bar those who make their money out of governing or reporting on the game, wants proper change.
I saw a Tweet yesterday from a journalist who thought it was 'astonishing' that a proportion of Motherwell fans had voted 'no' to Newco in the SPL, even if it meant their team going in to administration. I can understand where they're coming from: the game, as it is, is not worth saving. Or watching.

[Hibs07p]

What I find quite funny about all of this, is that from day 1 of administration to present day, there have been people in power bending over backwards to ensure Sevco 5088 play at the highest level next year. This has been driven by the media & SPL, condoned by the SFA and knocked back by the supporters of all clubs. It has been continually reported that Sevco 5088 through the authorities have concluded deals, whether that was agreement with HMRC over a CVA or being parachuted into division 1 after done deals with the SFA, SPL or SFL, or doomsday scenario for Scottish football is around the corner, but on closer examination they have all fell through, as is what is happening with the latest rescue plan. We are now all conditioned into accepting Sevco 5088 into Scottish football, and arguing about what level, as some sort of saviour for our game, when in reality they shouldn't be within a 100 miles of a public playing park, never mind a professional league. It has been accepted that best case (in most supporters eyes) scenario is 3rd division. What about the other teams, Gala, Spartans, etc who have more right to apply for a vacant position within Scottish football, clubs who have a history, and accounts for the last 3 years. I hope that the SFL chairmen when faced with the dilemma of choosing between a newco and a bonafide football club, are sufficiently pissed off with the SPL chairmen for trying to bully them into accepting a newco, make the right choice, and refuse newco entry. No body likes to be bullied, and the only solution to dealing with bullies is standing up to them and delivering a swift kick to the baws.

GGTTH

[EuanH78]

The proposal is ridiculous enough to believe that it's been issued with the intention of it being rejected.

After a day or two of reflection I'm beginning to like this proposal, not on it's merits though.

Either it is, as it appears a genuine effort to save zombieHuns5088 or whatever - In which case the heads of the governing bodies must roll - so out of touch with the populace as they are. This would be a win for me to be honest :greengrin

Or it is a deliberate machivellian attempt to kill the Huns stone dead. After putting everybodies back up with this crap, the percentage of clubs willing to vote them back in to any league must have dropped a little bit now, again a win :greengrin. Though if this were true I cant for the life of me fathom out why it would be done this way, except maybe... afraid to pull the trigger themselves? so the blame for the Huns total demise can be laid at the door of many people/ clubs (in a hun sense that is, we all know they brought this on themselves)

But that all seems rather far fetched maybe?

[Ozyhibby]

As Rangers depart the SPL scene I thinks it's time to look at what we want Scottish football to look like from now on.
1. First things first, we need a change to the voting system to at least a 9-3 majority required. All other reforms will flow from this.
2. Equal TV money.
3. Gate sharing. Given that some clubs have large stadiums to maintain I think that the first 17000 fans through the gate should go to the home team and all fans above this number split 50-50 with the away team. (unfortunately for Celtic this system means they would be the only losers)
3. Any prize money earned through European competition must be shared 50-50 with the league you represent. This means that in future if Celtic get a £10m champs league windfall then the other 11 SPL clubs will receive a bonus as well.
These are just some changes I can think of just now.
All of these systems are currently in use elsewhere in Europe and there are no legal obstacles to implementing them.
They would go a long way towards bringing sporting parity to our league.
Feel free to add others.

[lapsedhibee]

What I find quite funny about all of this, is that from day 1 of administration to present day, there have been people in power bending over backwards to ensure Sevco 5088 play at the highest level next year. This has been driven by the media & SPL, condoned by the SFA and knocked back by the supporters of all clubs. It has been continually reported that Sevco 5088 through the authorities have concluded deals, whether that was agreement with HMRC over a CVA or being parachuted into division 1 after done deals with the SFA, SPL or SFL, or doomsday scenario for Scottish football is around the corner, but on closer examination they have all fell through, as is what is happening with the latest rescue plan. We are now all conditioned into accepting Sevco 5088 into Scottish football, and arguing about what level, as some sort of saviour for our game, when in reality they shouldn't be within a 100 miles of a public playing park, never mind a professional league. It has been accepted that best case (in most supporters eyes) scenario is 3rd division. What about the other teams, Gala, Spartans, etc who have more right to apply for a vacant position within Scottish football, clubs who have a history, and accounts for the last 3 years. I hope that the SFL chairmen when faced with the dilemma of choosing between a newco and a bonafide football club, are sufficiently pissed off with the SPL chairmen for trying to bully them into accepting a newco, make the right choice, and refuse newco entry. No body likes to be bullied, and the only solution to dealing with bullies is standing up to them and delivering a swift kick to the baws.

GGTTH

:agree: There's no more reason for the Nouveau Huns to be accepted in to Div 3 than in to Div 1 or the SPL.

[Dashing Bob S]

Well put, Bob.
I heard Chris Brookmyre on the radio a few months back, saying that he can't remember a time when there was such a big disconnect between the football authorities / media and the fanbase, since the period that resulted in the creation of fanzines. I - and everyone else I know who follows a non old firm team - struggle to justify the time and money to attend. Everyone, bar those who make their money out of governing or reporting on the game, wants proper change.
I saw a Tweet yesterday from a journalist who thought it was 'astonishing' that a proportion of Motherwell fans had voted 'no' to Newco in the SPL, even if it meant their team going in to administration. I can understand where they're coming from: the game, as it is, is not worth saving. Or watching.

I’m now personally getting to the point where I think it’s possibly already too late for me to maintain any interest in our farce of a national sport. I say this because the game’s supporters shouldn’t need to be engaged in vociferous protest, simply in order that our administrators enforce natural justice, fair play and sporting integrity on a league of association football. But it’s difficult to have any confidence in a body of people, whom, without fan power pushing them, would almost certainly have admitted Rangers straight back into the SPL, without any serious penalties.

I was briefly proud of my own club and Rod Petrie, believing we had done the correct and only possible thing, to the extent that I immediately renewed my season ticket. Now I see that this was merely a snide, patronising concession and I regret ever having invested this confidence.

I’m truly heartbroken that Hibernian, which has been synonymous with the triumph of the underdog and an ethos of class and integrity, as exemplified by its greats such as Smith, Stanton and Sauzee, has been inextricably caught up in this undignified mess that Scottish Football has become. And it’s become this way because it has allowed a member club to become bloated on bigotry and sectarianism, and afforded it an entitled place in our national game out of all proportion to what it should be. As a result the administration of the game has attracted shysters, fellow travellers and their craven apologists. They are unfit to run football and it pains me to say this, but FIFA should kick us out of the world game right now, until we establish that we can run the sport pursuant with the ethos of fair play by pre-agreed rules.

This incident reflects shockingly on us as a country. Some will say that it only proves we cannot be trusted to run our own affairs, others will argue that the culture of dependency has made us shrink back and sit on our hands while the lunatics who have taken over this particular asylum masturbate frantically while it burns down around us. Whatever one’s view of the grubby proceedings, in retrospect it now seems as if we have been on this inevitable collision course for decades. We should not be having this discussion, not heading for this defining moment in Scottish Football, simply on the basis of the corruption of one member club. All that should happen is that the simple rules of the association are enforced. That ship has probably sailed now; it looks as though we are heading for a cataclysmic meltdown of our national game, with probable outside intervention, and that might not eventually be a bad thing, as it may offer the last chance to resurrect something positive from this mess.

I’m very angry right now, as evidently, are many other long-term supporters of Scottish football. I know so many of them who have invested financially, physically and emotionally in their clubs over the years, often at the expense of those other things in life. I know that so many of them now feel cheated and duped, like they have gone along with a scam perpetuated by mealy-mouthed confidence tricksters, who will lie, twist and squirm to maintain a wrecked and suffocating status quo. Right now, the people who run our game have a hell of a lot of work to do in order to convince me and many other soon-to-be ex fans, that there is any point whatsoever in investing in their succulent lamb, sashes-and-flutes-pandering WWF toytown league.

[greenginger]

:agree: There's no more reason for the Nouveau Huns to be accepted in to Div 3 than in to Div 1 or the SPL.



Dangerous ground there, refusing them access to Div 3 might open up the way for them to the hallowed ground of English Football.

Not that I would be against that as long as they ground shared with Carlise or somebody south of Gretna. :greengrin

[cabbageandribs1875]

http://img641.imageshack.us/img641/5739/boxo9.gif (http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/641/boxo9.gif/)


Uploaded with ImageShack.us (http://imageshack.us)

[Ozyhibby]

Dangerous ground there, refusing them access to Div 3 might open up the way for them to the hallowed ground of English Football.

Not that I would be against that as long as they ground shared with Carlise or somebody south of Gretna. :greengrin

There is no way that eufa would allow an expansion of the English FA onto Scottish soil.

[cabbageandribs1875]

Good post bob s

[greenginger]

There is no way that eufa would allow an expansion of the English FA onto Scottish soil.


Refusing them access to the Scottish Game would give them the basis of an argument for an exception to be made if they had any " friends " at EUFA.

Fortunately that is not the case.

[lapsedhibee]

Dangerous ground there, refusing them access to Div 3 might open up the way for them to the hallowed ground of English Football.

Not really. Declining their application for Div 3 would open up the way for them to apply to the West of Scotland League, where they could play for 3 years and probably pick up a few trophies (to bring their total trophy haul to a few), while acquiring the necessary accounting paperwork to put in an application to join the SFL. Completely straightforward path, imo, starting at the bottom and working their way up.

[Baba O'riley]

I’m now personally getting to the point where I think it’s possibly already too late for me to maintain any interest in our farce of a national sport. I say this because the game’s supporters shouldn’t need to be engaged in vociferous protest, simply in order that our administrators enforce natural justice, fair play and sporting integrity on a league of association football. But it’s difficult to have any confidence in a body of people, whom, without fan power pushing them, would almost certainly have admitted Rangers straight back into the SPL, without any serious penalties.

I was briefly proud of my own club and Rod Petrie, believing we had done the correct and only possible thing, to the extent that I immediately renewed my season ticket. Now I see that this was merely a snide, patronising concession and I regret ever having invested this confidence.

I’m truly heartbroken that Hibernian, which has been synonymous with the triumph of the underdog and an ethos of class and integrity, as exemplified by its greats such as Smith, Stanton and Sauzee, has been inextricably caught up in this undignified mess that Scottish Football has become. And it’s become this way because it has allowed a member club to become bloated on bigotry and sectarianism, and afforded it an entitled place in our national game out of all proportion to what it should be. As a result the administration of the game has attracted shysters, fellow travellers and their craven apologists. They are unfit to run football and it pains me to say this, but FIFA should kick us out of the world game right now, until we establish that we can run the sport pursuant with the ethos of fair play by pre-agreed rules.

This incident reflects shockingly on us as a country. Some will say that it only proves we cannot be trusted to run our own affairs, others will argue that the culture of dependency has made us shrink back and sit on our hands while the lunatics who have taken over this particular asylum masturbate frantically while it burns down around us. Whatever one’s view of the grubby proceedings, in retrospect it now seems as if we have been on this inevitable collision course for decades. We should not be having this discussion, not heading for this defining moment in Scottish Football, simply on the basis of the corruption of one member club. All that should happen is that the simple rules of the association are enforced. That ship has probably sailed now; it looks as though we are heading for a cataclysmic meltdown of our national game, with probable outside intervention, and that might not eventually be a bad thing, as it may offer the last chance to resurrect something positive from this mess.

I’m very angry right now, as evidently, are many other long-term supporters of Scottish football. I know so many of them who have invested financially, physically and emotionally in their clubs over the years, often at the expense of those other things in life. I know that so many of them now feel cheated and duped, like they have gone along with a scam perpetuated by mealy-mouthed confidence tricksters, who will lie, twist and squirm to maintain a wrecked and suffocating status quo. Right now, the people who run our game have a hell of a lot of work to do in order to convince me and many other soon-to-be ex fans, that there is any point whatsoever in investing in their succulent lamb, sashes-and-flutes-pandering WWF toytown league.

My sentiments exactly. The very fact the option of pushing that manky mob into division 1 is being considered means the damage has already been done. Whilst it would appear the chairmen of SFL clubs appear to have the integrity and bottle not to be bullied by the SPL big boys, they shouldn't even be put in that situation. The people that run football in this country should be acting in the best interest of the game at all time, and not just to protect one club who have disgraced themselves and the country in which they plied their trade. Regardless of how the SFL clubs do vote, why should my money continue to support such blatant corruption?

[Moulin Yarns]

Not really. Declining their application for Div 3 would open up the way for them to apply to the West of Scotland League, where they could play for 3 years and probably pick up a few trophies (to bring their total trophy haul to a few), while acquiring the necessary accounting paperwork to put in an application to join the SFL. Completely straightforward path, imo, starting at the bottom and working their way up.

I want to know who you are (in an Ally McCoist way) as you must be sitting looking over my shoulder as I type!! :greengrin


You got one thing wrong though. there are 4 divisions in the West of Scotland League, and they would have to join the Central Division 2 and take their chances with the other 11 clubs.

[Dave-O]

I’m now personally getting to the point where I think it’s possibly already too late for me to maintain any interest in our farce of a national sport. I say this because the game’s supporters shouldn’t need to be engaged in vociferous protest, simply in order that our administrators enforce natural justice, fair play and sporting integrity on a league of association football. But it’s difficult to have any confidence in a body of people, whom, without fan power pushing them, would almost certainly have admitted Rangers straight back into the SPL, without any serious penalties.

I was briefly proud of my own club and Rod Petrie, believing we had done the correct and only possible thing, to the extent that I immediately renewed my season ticket. Now I see that this was merely a snide, patronising concession and I regret ever having invested this confidence.

I’m truly heartbroken that Hibernian, which has been synonymous with the triumph of the underdog and an ethos of class and integrity, as exemplified by its greats such as Smith, Stanton and Sauzee, has been inextricably caught up in this undignified mess that Scottish Football has become. And it’s become this way because it has allowed a member club to become bloated on bigotry and sectarianism, and afforded it an entitled place in our national game out of all proportion to what it should be. As a result the administration of the game has attracted shysters, fellow travellers and their craven apologists. They are unfit to run football and it pains me to say this, but FIFA should kick us out of the world game right now, until we establish that we can run the sport pursuant with the ethos of fair play by pre-agreed rules.

This incident reflects shockingly on us as a country. Some will say that it only proves we cannot be trusted to run our own affairs, others will argue that the culture of dependency has made us shrink back and sit on our hands while the lunatics who have taken over this particular asylum masturbate frantically while it burns down around us. Whatever one’s view of the grubby proceedings, in retrospect it now seems as if we have been on this inevitable collision course for decades. We should not be having this discussion, not heading for this defining moment in Scottish Football, simply on the basis of the corruption of one member club. All that should happen is that the simple rules of the association are enforced. That ship has probably sailed now; it looks as though we are heading for a cataclysmic meltdown of our national game, with probable outside intervention, and that might not eventually be a bad thing, as it may offer the last chance to resurrect something positive from this mess.

I’m very angry right now, as evidently, are many other long-term supporters of Scottish football. I know so many of them who have invested financially, physically and emotionally in their clubs over the years, often at the expense of those other things in life. I know that so many of them now feel cheated and duped, like they have gone along with a scam perpetuated by mealy-mouthed confidence tricksters, who will lie, twist and squirm to maintain a wrecked and suffocating status quo. Right now, the people who run our game have a hell of a lot of work to do in order to convince me and many other soon-to-be ex fans, that there is any point whatsoever in investing in their succulent lamb, sashes-and-flutes-pandering WWF toytown league.


:top marks


Well put Bob....:agree:

[Jack]

Refusing them access to the Scottish Game would give them the basis of an argument for an exception to be made if they had any " friends " at EUFA.

Fortunately that is not the case.

They are not being refused access to the Scottish leagues, they do not fulfil the entry requirements. I'm not sure what is required for the English system but as ours are UEFA driven I suspect there's are too and will be at least the same.

The SFA would also have to sanction any match that they played while based in Scotland, so I don't even see a Govan Globetrotters playing anywhere.

[LancashireHibby]

They are not being refused access to the Scottish leagues, they do not fulfil the entry requirements. I'm not sure what is required for the English system but as ours are UEFA driven I suspect there's are too and will be at least the same.

The SFA would also have to sanction any match that they played while based in Scotland, so I don't even see a Govan Globetrotters playing anywhere.
With the current set up in Scotland, they have a lot more chance of getting in to SFL3 than anything down here. They would need to be based in England and most likely apply for step 7 (bottom division of Northern League), which is the equivalent of where FC United of Manchester began, although special dispensation was given to the 'new' Chester club to begin two league higher in the Northern Premier Division One.

[IWasThere2016]

Well said Sir Bob of Dashing :agree:

[Onion]

I’m now personally getting to the point where I think it’s possibly already too late for me to maintain any interest in our farce of a national sport. I say this because the game’s supporters shouldn’t need to be engaged in vociferous protest, simply in order that our administrators enforce natural justice, fair play and sporting integrity on a league of association football. But it’s difficult to have any confidence in a body of people, whom, without fan power pushing them, would almost certainly have admitted Rangers straight back into the SPL, without any serious penalties.

I was briefly proud of my own club and Rod Petrie, believing we had done the correct and only possible thing, to the extent that I immediately renewed my season ticket. Now I see that this was merely a snide, patronising concession and I regret ever having invested this confidence.

I’m truly heartbroken that Hibernian, which has been synonymous with the triumph of the underdog and an ethos of class and integrity, as exemplified by its greats such as Smith, Stanton and Sauzee, has been inextricably caught up in this undignified mess that Scottish Football has become. And it’s become this way because it has allowed a member club to become bloated on bigotry and sectarianism, and afforded it an entitled place in our national game out of all proportion to what it should be. As a result the administration of the game has attracted shysters, fellow travellers and their craven apologists. They are unfit to run football and it pains me to say this, but FIFA should kick us out of the world game right now, until we establish that we can run the sport pursuant with the ethos of fair play by pre-agreed rules.

This incident reflects shockingly on us as a country. Some will say that it only proves we cannot be trusted to run our own affairs, others will argue that the culture of dependency has made us shrink back and sit on our hands while the lunatics who have taken over this particular asylum masturbate frantically while it burns down around us. Whatever one’s view of the grubby proceedings, in retrospect it now seems as if we have been on this inevitable collision course for decades. We should not be having this discussion, not heading for this defining moment in Scottish Football, simply on the basis of the corruption of one member club. All that should happen is that the simple rules of the association are enforced. That ship has probably sailed now; it looks as though we are heading for a cataclysmic meltdown of our national game, with probable outside intervention, and that might not eventually be a bad thing, as it may offer the last chance to resurrect something positive from this mess.

I’m very angry right now, as evidently, are many other long-term supporters of Scottish football. I know so many of them who have invested financially, physically and emotionally in their clubs over the years, often at the expense of those other things in life. I know that so many of them now feel cheated and duped, like they have gone along with a scam perpetuated by mealy-mouthed confidence tricksters, who will lie, twist and squirm to maintain a wrecked and suffocating status quo. Right now, the people who run our game have a hell of a lot of work to do in order to convince me and many other soon-to-be ex fans, that there is any point whatsoever in investing in their succulent lamb, sashes-and-flutes-pandering WWF toytown league.

:top marks well said and we all share your pain. I can never remember a time in my 50 years of following football where so many fans of different clubs were so united in their views. The fact that the people who purport to run our National Sport are secretly, deliberately and systematically working against the views of 95% of the football public is utterly reprehensible. I also applauded Hibs for their initial stance/statement and felt a sense of pride in the club the first time is ages, but now feel contempt for the way they think they can dupe me. If this was any other business than football, a lot of these clubs would be out of business for the way they have dealt with this issue. Like, you, I now think this has gone too far and there will be significant damage done to ALL the clubs in Scotland, well beyond what would have been the case had they just dealt with Sevco/RFC in a right and proper manner. The authorities themselves are in the process of destroying the game, and you have to ask the question ...why ?

[Saorsa]

I’m now personally getting to the point where I think it’s possibly already too late for me to maintain any interest in our farce of a national sport. I say this because the game’s supporters shouldn’t need to be engaged in vociferous protest, simply in order that our administrators enforce natural justice, fair play and sporting integrity on a league of association football. But it’s difficult to have any confidence in a body of people, whom, without fan power pushing them, would almost certainly have admitted Rangers straight back into the SPL, without any serious penalties.

I was briefly proud of my own club and Rod Petrie, believing we had done the correct and only possible thing, to the extent that I immediately renewed my season ticket. Now I see that this was merely a snide, patronising concession and I regret ever having invested this confidence.

I’m truly heartbroken that Hibernian, which has been synonymous with the triumph of the underdog and an ethos of class and integrity, as exemplified by its greats such as Smith, Stanton and Sauzee, has been inextricably caught up in this undignified mess that Scottish Football has become. And it’s become this way because it has allowed a member club to become bloated on bigotry and sectarianism, and afforded it an entitled place in our national game out of all proportion to what it should be. As a result the administration of the game has attracted shysters, fellow travellers and their craven apologists. They are unfit to run football and it pains me to say this, but FIFA should kick us out of the world game right now, until we establish that we can run the sport pursuant with the ethos of fair play by pre-agreed rules.

This incident reflects shockingly on us as a country. Some will say that it only proves we cannot be trusted to run our own affairs, others will argue that the culture of dependency has made us shrink back and sit on our hands while the lunatics who have taken over this particular asylum masturbate frantically while it burns down around us. Whatever one’s view of the grubby proceedings, in retrospect it now seems as if we have been on this inevitable collision course for decades. We should not be having this discussion, not heading for this defining moment in Scottish Football, simply on the basis of the corruption of one member club. All that should happen is that the simple rules of the association are enforced. That ship has probably sailed now; it looks as though we are heading for a cataclysmic meltdown of our national game, with probable outside intervention, and that might not eventually be a bad thing, as it may offer the last chance to resurrect something positive from this mess.

I’m very angry right now, as evidently, are many other long-term supporters of Scottish football. I know so many of them who have invested financially, physically and emotionally in their clubs over the years, often at the expense of those other things in life. I know that so many of them now feel cheated and duped, like they have gone along with a scam perpetuated by mealy-mouthed confidence tricksters, who will lie, twist and squirm to maintain a wrecked and suffocating status quo. Right now, the people who run our game have a hell of a lot of work to do in order to convince me and many other soon-to-be ex fans, that there is any point whatsoever in investing in their succulent lamb, sashes-and-flutes-pandering WWF toytown league.excellent post Bob :top marks

[HUTCHYHIBBY]

Your last 2 posts have been outstanding DBS. If skanko79 is looking for reasons as to why the sevco situation is getting so many peoples backs up he need look no further.

[Eire hibs]

Apologies if posted earlier. I thought this was a good summary of just how ludicrous / pathetic the SFA proposals are. It defies belief that they have the gall to put this forward with a straight face.

http://wingsland.podgamer.com/the-lead-parachute/

[BEEJ]

More analysis of the SFL proposal document.......

http://wingsland.podgamer.com/the-lead-parachute/
As someone who is so utterly bored with this long-running circus, I confess to not having yet read the proposal document.

But this link provides an excellent summary of it, at the same time showing it up for what it really is.

That document has Doncaster's grubby paw-prints all over it. Time for him to receive his jotters.

[marinello59]

As someone who is so utterly bored with this long-running circus, I confess to not having yet read the proposal document.
But this link provides an excellent summary of it, at the same time showing it up for what it really is.

That document has Doncaster's grubby paw-prints all over it. Time for him to receive his jotters.

I read it yesterday and didn't realise that I had. I thought I was reading a spoof document posted on the internet as satire. Those responsible should be ashamed.

[BEEJ]

http://blogs.channel4.com/alex-thomsons-view/scottish-footballs-chance-saloon/2091 :aok:
That's an excellent summary as well - as all his blogs have been on this subject.

[BoltonHibee]

With the current set up in Scotland, they have a lot more chance of getting in to SFL3 than anything down here. They would need to be based in England and most likely apply for step 7 (bottom division of Northern League), which is the equivalent of where FC United of Manchester began, although special dispensation was given to the 'new' Chester club to begin two league higher in the Northern Premier Division One.

West Lancs is step 7, would want that manky mob in that league :)

[The_Sauz]

You make it sound so simplistic !
The OP I think was looking at the overall picture
This is about economics not sentiment and many of Div 3 clubs depend on the Directors putting their hands in their pockets on a regular basis to help the club simply survive.
I have friends involved with the running of three Div2/3 clubs and it is simply hand to mouth .
OK reorganisation is an option but is surely a short term fix
There are so many alternative hobbies/pastimes available that people are not drawn to football as they were in the 1960's
I played , early 50's , for a club now in Div 3 and we could look for 4/5000 for home games now it is 4/450

Sorry but can't see the problem be solved with the number of clubs we have at present .

You were a Hun..:grr:

















:na na:

[johnrebus]

I’m now personally getting to the point where I think it’s possibly already too late for me to maintain any interest in our farce of a national sport. I say this because the game’s supporters shouldn’t need to be engaged in vociferous protest, simply in order that our administrators enforce natural justice, fair play and sporting integrity on a league of association football. But it’s difficult to have any confidence in a body of people, whom, without fan power pushing them, would almost certainly have admitted Rangers straight back into the SPL, without any serious penalties.

I was briefly proud of my own club and Rod Petrie, believing we had done the correct and only possible thing, to the extent that I immediately renewed my season ticket. Now I see that this was merely a snide, patronising concession and I regret ever having invested this confidence.

I’m truly heartbroken that Hibernian, which has been synonymous with the triumph of the underdog and an ethos of class and integrity, as exemplified by its greats such as Smith, Stanton and Sauzee, has been inextricably caught up in this undignified mess that Scottish Football has become. And it’s become this way because it has allowed a member club to become bloated on bigotry and sectarianism, and afforded it an entitled place in our national game out of all proportion to what it should be. As a result the administration of the game has attracted shysters, fellow travellers and their craven apologists. They are unfit to run football and it pains me to say this, but FIFA should kick us out of the world game right now, until we establish that we can run the sport pursuant with the ethos of fair play by pre-agreed rules.

This incident reflects shockingly on us as a country. Some will say that it only proves we cannot be trusted to run our own affairs, others will argue that the culture of dependency has made us shrink back and sit on our hands while the lunatics who have taken over this particular asylum masturbate frantically while it burns down around us. Whatever one’s view of the grubby proceedings, in retrospect it now seems as if we have been on this inevitable collision course for decades. We should not be having this discussion, not heading for this defining moment in Scottish Football, simply on the basis of the corruption of one member club. All that should happen is that the simple rules of the association are enforced. That ship has probably sailed now; it looks as though we are heading for a cataclysmic meltdown of our national game, with probable outside intervention, and that might not eventually be a bad thing, as it may offer the last chance to resurrect something positive from this mess.

I’m very angry right now, as evidently, are many other long-term supporters of Scottish football. I know so many of them who have invested financially, physically and emotionally in their clubs over the years, often at the expense of those other things in life. I know that so many of them now feel cheated and duped, like they have gone along with a scam perpetuated by mealy-mouthed confidence tricksters, who will lie, twist and squirm to maintain a wrecked and suffocating status quo. Right now, the people who run our game have a hell of a lot of work to do in order to convince me and many other soon-to-be ex fans, that there is any point whatsoever in investing in their succulent lamb, sashes-and-flutes-pandering WWF toytown league.


:top marks


Probably the best post I have ever read on this site and sums up my own feelings precisely.


I've supported Scottish Football for forty five years and suffered many agonies in that time - none more so than on the nineteenth of last month, but its all too much now. Even if the Hun do start again in Division Three, the intent has always been there to get them back in the SPL at all costs with minimum punishment. That Scottish Football is corrupt there is no doubt, and it looks increasingly likely that our own chairman is one of the main driving forces behind it.

IMHO the Hun should have been allowed to die. As DBS says, this whole farce reflects badly on Scotland as a country. I grew up in a town in central Scotland where 90% of my contempories were Rangers supporters. I could not understand it then and it remains a mystery to me to this day. How can other wise - some of them - intelligent decent people switch to being vile foul mouthed bigots as soon as football is mentioned and not see how stupid the whole thing is? I have already told my son, never to give his opinion in discussions about Rangers and Celtic with people he doesn't know as he will likely end up with a sore face or worse. These two football clubs - the former especially - are nothing but a cancer at the heart of Scottish society and we would be far better off without them both.

But for me it doesn't matter anymore what happens with the Huns now because I have already had enough and bought two season tickets for myself and my son at St James Park next season.

And do know what?



Am looking forward to it so much, I can't wait.



:flamed:

[Hibercelona]

Regardless of what happens to THEM now, there will always be a bad wiff left behind.

I've always viewed the SPL as a bit of a joke, but now its gotten to the point where I can no longer view them as a football league. It doesn't deserve that title.

[Saorsa]

:top marks


Probably the best post I have ever read on this site and sums up my own feelings precisely.


I've supported Scottish Football for forty five years and suffered many agonies in that time - none more so than on the nineteenth of last month, but its all too much now. Even if the Hun do start again in Division Three, the intent has always been there to get them back in the SPL at all costs with minimum punishment. That Scottish Football is corrupt there is no doubt, and it looks increasingly likely that our own chairman is one of the main driving forces behind it.

IMHO the Hun should have been allowed to die. As DBS says, this whole farce reflects badly on Scotland as a country. I grew up in a town in central Scotland where 90% of my contempories were Rangers supporters. I could not understand it then and it remains a mystery to me to this day. How can other wise - some of them - intelligent decent people switch to being vile foul mouthed bigots as soon as football is mentioned and not see how stupid the whole thing is? I have already told my son, never to give his opinion in discussions about Rangers and Celtic with people he doesn't know as he will likely end up with a sore face or worse. These two football clubs - the former especially - are nothing but a cancer at the heart of Scottish society and we would be far better off without them both.

But for me it doesn't matter anymore what happens with the Huns now because I have already had enough and bought two season tickets for myself and my son at St James Park next season.

And do know what?



Am looking forward to it so much, I can't wait.



:flamed:Bang on with that, even if the right thing gets done now, the whole thing will be a terrible stain on Scottish fitba and leaves a bad taste in the mouth. If the right thing is done now they'll have done it because they were forced in tae it and no because it was the right thing tae dae. It's been proven that the people running (ruining) the game in this country are entirely incapable of doing the right thing. Instead they continue to come across as what they are, a bunch of twisted, myopic, self interested, gravy train riding shysters and old firm sycophants who couldn't give a toss about anyone or anything but themselves as long as they can still feather their nests.

[Brando7]

the sun reporting less than 1000 ST have been bought so far :greengrin

[GreenCastle]

I’m now personally getting to the point where I think it’s possibly already too late for me to maintain any interest in our farce of a national sport. I say this because the game’s supporters shouldn’t need to be engaged in vociferous protest, simply in order that our administrators enforce natural justice, fair play and sporting integrity on a league of association football. But it’s difficult to have any confidence in a body of people, whom, without fan power pushing them, would almost certainly have admitted Rangers straight back into the SPL, without any serious penalties.

I was briefly proud of my own club and Rod Petrie, believing we had done the correct and only possible thing, to the extent that I immediately renewed my season ticket. Now I see that this was merely a snide, patronising concession and I regret ever having invested this confidence.

I’m truly heartbroken that Hibernian, which has been synonymous with the triumph of the underdog and an ethos of class and integrity, as exemplified by its greats such as Smith, Stanton and Sauzee, has been inextricably caught up in this undignified mess that Scottish Football has become. And it’s become this way because it has allowed a member club to become bloated on bigotry and sectarianism, and afforded it an entitled place in our national game out of all proportion to what it should be. As a result the administration of the game has attracted shysters, fellow travellers and their craven apologists. They are unfit to run football and it pains me to say this, but FIFA should kick us out of the world game right now, until we establish that we can run the sport pursuant with the ethos of fair play by pre-agreed rules.

This incident reflects shockingly on us as a country. Some will say that it only proves we cannot be trusted to run our own affairs, others will argue that the culture of dependency has made us shrink back and sit on our hands while the lunatics who have taken over this particular asylum masturbate frantically while it burns down around us. Whatever one’s view of the grubby proceedings, in retrospect it now seems as if we have been on this inevitable collision course for decades. We should not be having this discussion, not heading for this defining moment in Scottish Football, simply on the basis of the corruption of one member club. All that should happen is that the simple rules of the association are enforced. That ship has probably sailed now; it looks as though we are heading for a cataclysmic meltdown of our national game, with probable outside intervention, and that might not eventually be a bad thing, as it may offer the last chance to resurrect something positive from this mess.

I’m very angry right now, as evidently, are many other long-term supporters of Scottish football. I know so many of them who have invested financially, physically and emotionally in their clubs over the years, often at the expense of those other things in life. I know that so many of them now feel cheated and duped, like they have gone along with a scam perpetuated by mealy-mouthed confidence tricksters, who will lie, twist and squirm to maintain a wrecked and suffocating status quo. Right now, the people who run our game have a hell of a lot of work to do in order to convince me and many other soon-to-be ex fans, that there is any point whatsoever in investing in their succulent lamb, sashes-and-flutes-pandering WWF toytown league.


:top marks Well written and some very good points.

This saga is rivaling the Edinburgh Tram saga - you do worry about society and the future of this country when there are people in high positions making terrible decisions.

It's a real shame as Scottish Football at a grassroots level is trying to get it's self sorted and right now all those so called role models and teams clubs these young kids want to play for are setting a terrible example.

If we think it's bad now think in 10 / 15 years and the game will be really struggling - all due to the monopoly of the Old Firm and I include Celtic as with them staying so quiet through this recently they are just as bad as that Ibrox lot.

[NAE NOOKIE]

:top marks


Probably the best post I have ever read on this site and sums up my own feelings precisely.


I've supported Scottish Football for forty five years and suffered many agonies in that time - none more so than on the nineteenth of last month, but its all too much now. Even if the Hun do start again in Division Three, the intent has always been there to get them back in the SPL at all costs with minimum punishment. That Scottish Football is corrupt there is no doubt, and it looks increasingly likely that our own chairman is one of the main driving forces behind it.

IMHO the Hun should have been allowed to die. As DBS says, this whole farce reflects badly on Scotland as a country. I grew up in a town in central Scotland where 90% of my contempories were Rangers supporters. I could not understand it then and it remains a mystery to me to this day. How can other wise - some of them - intelligent decent people switch to being vile foul mouthed bigots as soon as football is mentioned and not see how stupid the whole thing is? I have already told my son, never to give his opinion in discussions about Rangers and Celtic with people he doesn't know as he will likely end up with a sore face or worse. These two football clubs - the former especially - are nothing but a cancer at the heart of Scottish society and we would be far better off without them both.

But for me it doesn't matter anymore what happens with the Huns now because I have already had enough and bought two season tickets for myself and my son at St James Park next season.

And do know what?



Am looking forward to it so much, I can't wait.



:flamed:

St James Park is a fantastic stadium and like in many English grounds you can have a pint at half time. Its also right in the town centre so the pre and post match experience is really good too.

The Toon army are fantastic, they have been fed mostly crap for decades and yet still follow their team enthusiastically, you will be pushed to find many Man Utd, Liverpool or Chelsea glory hunters in the North East, fantastic fans.

Thats certainly what I want to see for Edinburgh The Lothians and for me The Borders .... A culture where supporting your local pro club, be that Hibs Hearts or Livingston is the natural thing to do and they day where the OF bigotry etc is a thing of the past along with unfairness and stupid voting systems.

So, to all of the fans out there who, like me, are willing to stay and fight for that ....... Cheers folks, we will get there.

[ScottB]

I'm loving how that 'document' is being punted as changing the leagues, when all it seems to be doing is adding a play off place at the top and a pyramid at the bottom.

No attempt to address the boredom that is playing 4 times a season, the ridiculous split, the arguably too many clubs competing in the national leagues, the lack of a reserve league or question of 'B' teams that have been floated in the past etc etc etc.


It is simply a fudge to get Rangers back in, but worse it will no doubt close off the prospect of real and much needed change for years to come.

[Saorsa]

I'm loving how that 'document' is being punted as changing the leagues, when all it seems to be doing is adding a play off place at the top and a pyramid at the bottom.

No attempt to address the boredom that is playing 4 times a season, the ridiculous split, the arguably too many clubs competing in the national leagues, the lack of a reserve league or question of 'B' teams that have been floated in the past etc etc etc.


It is simply a fudge to get Rangers back in, but worse it will no doubt close off the prospect of real and much needed change for years to come.Spot on. Scottish fitba is on it's erse and change is long overdue. Properly thought out change though, that will benefit all, no this hastily arranged, ill thought out sham, that as you say is for nae other reason but tae try and get newco huns in as high up the leagues as they can.

[magpie1892]

:top marks


I have bought two season tickets for myself and my son at St James Park next season.

And do know what?

Am looking forward to it so much, I can't wait.



:flamed:

Welcome. Spurs (H) opening fixture. Reckon this will be better than Kille v. Club 12.

[The Green Goblin]

I’m now personally getting to the point where I think it’s possibly already too late for me to maintain any interest in our farce of a national sport. I say this because the game’s supporters shouldn’t need to be engaged in vociferous protest, simply in order that our administrators enforce natural justice, fair play and sporting integrity on a league of association football. But it’s difficult to have any confidence in a body of people, whom, without fan power pushing them, would almost certainly have admitted Rangers straight back into the SPL, without any serious penalties.

I was briefly proud of my own club and Rod Petrie, believing we had done the correct and only possible thing, to the extent that I immediately renewed my season ticket. Now I see that this was merely a snide, patronising concession and I regret ever having invested this confidence.

I’m truly heartbroken that Hibernian, which has been synonymous with the triumph of the underdog and an ethos of class and integrity, as exemplified by its greats such as Smith, Stanton and Sauzee, has been inextricably caught up in this undignified mess that Scottish Football has become. And it’s become this way because it has allowed a member club to become bloated on bigotry and sectarianism, and afforded it an entitled place in our national game out of all proportion to what it should be. As a result the administration of the game has attracted shysters, fellow travellers and their craven apologists. They are unfit to run football and it pains me to say this, but FIFA should kick us out of the world game right now, until we establish that we can run the sport pursuant with the ethos of fair play by pre-agreed rules.

This incident reflects shockingly on us as a country. Some will say that it only proves we cannot be trusted to run our own affairs, others will argue that the culture of dependency has made us shrink back and sit on our hands while the lunatics who have taken over this particular asylum masturbate frantically while it burns down around us. Whatever one’s view of the grubby proceedings, in retrospect it now seems as if we have been on this inevitable collision course for decades. We should not be having this discussion, not heading for this defining moment in Scottish Football, simply on the basis of the corruption of one member club. All that should happen is that the simple rules of the association are enforced. That ship has probably sailed now; it looks as though we are heading for a cataclysmic meltdown of our national game, with probable outside intervention, and that might not eventually be a bad thing, as it may offer the last chance to resurrect something positive from this mess.

I’m very angry right now, as evidently, are many other long-term supporters of Scottish football. I know so many of them who have invested financially, physically and emotionally in their clubs over the years, often at the expense of those other things in life. I know that so many of them now feel cheated and duped, like they have gone along with a scam perpetuated by mealy-mouthed confidence tricksters, who will lie, twist and squirm to maintain a wrecked and suffocating status quo. Right now, the people who run our game have a hell of a lot of work to do in order to convince me and many other soon-to-be ex fans, that there is any point whatsoever in investing in their succulent lamb, sashes-and-flutes-pandering WWF toytown league.


Bob...PLEASE send this as a letter to the Scotsman/Herald or somewhere like that. It needs to be read widely. Great post!

[HibbyRod]

St James Park is a fantastic stadium and like in many English grounds you can have a pint at half time. Its also right in the town centre so the pre and post match experience is really good too.

The Toon army are fantastic, they have been fed mostly crap for decades and yet still follow their team enthusiastically, you will be pushed to find many Man Utd, Liverpool or Chelsea glory hunters in the North East, fantastic fans.

Thats certainly what I want to see for Edinburgh The Lothians and for me The Borders .... A culture where supporting your local pro club, be that Hibs Hearts or Livingston is the natural thing to do and they day where the OF bigotry etc is a thing of the past along with unfairness and stupid voting systems.

So, to all of the fans out there who, like me, are willing to stay and fight for that ....... Cheers folks, we will get there.

I'm with you BOVRIL ! :thumbsup:

[Part/Time Supporter]

Clyde opposed to reconstruction proposals (http://www.clydefc.co.uk/news/2012/06/30/4134/)

[matty_f]

the sun reporting less than 1000 ST have been bought so far :greengrin

I near shat myself there, at first I forgot what thread I was on and thought that was OUR season ticket sales!!


Then I near pished myself when I realised it was the former currant buns... :faf:

[Billy Whizz]

Clyde opposed to reconstruction proposals (http://www.clydefc.co.uk/news/2012/06/30/4134/)

Looks like SFL 3 now for Rangers if they are lucky

[HUTCHYHIBBY]

Bob...PLEASE send this as a letter to the Scotsman/Herald or somewhere like that. It needs to be read widely. Great post!

Couldnae agree more!

[BarneyK]

I near shat myself there, at first I forgot what thread I was on and thought that was OUR season ticket sales!!


Then I near pished myself when I realised it was the former currant buns... :faf:

Shame they havenae sold more...all going to the creditors, isn't it? :greengrin

[matty_f]

Shame they havenae sold more...all going to the creditors, isn't it? :greengrin

True. This boy Green's going to have to have very deep pockets to cover the running of the club for the next few years. I'd think his consortium will all have squeeky bums the now as well, what a ridiculous 'investment' buying Rangers was.

The only way he'll get any return, realistically, is to sell the property.

Can't say I'm upset about any of this, frankly.

[Saorsa]

Clyde opposed to reconstruction proposals (http://www.clydefc.co.uk/news/2012/06/30/4134/)Good, hope all the SFL clubs vote against it, that'll hopefully stuff their blackmail plans for an SPL 2 as well if naebody wants tae join it.

Any chance of a copy and paste of the statement, for whatever reason the page with the statement winnae load fo me.

[s.a.m]

Good, hope all the SFL clubs vote against it, that'll hopefully stuff their SPL 2 plans as well if naebody wants tae join it.

Any chance of a copy and paste of the statement, for whatever reason the page with the statement winnae load fo me.

Club Statement: Reconstruction Proposal
Sat, 30th Jun 2012 12:48pm
The Club has received a set of papers in advance of the SFL meeting on Tuesday. The essential intent behind those papers is to induce the SFL clubs to agree a proposal to allow a Newco to enter the SFL in the 1st Division in exchange for a range of structural changes to the current set up and some small financial inducements. Some of the proposed changes have merit in principle.
The Board believe that any proposals for change should not be rushed, as these have been. They also have to be done by consensus and not through threat or inducement, again, as these have been.
The papers include a proposal to allow a Newco to enter the 1st Division. This is contrary to the rules of the SFL and nothing within the papers justifies this proposal.
As a club owned by its supporters and recovering from having been on the brink of extinction, the Board of Clyde Football Club recognise the damage done to the credibility of Rangers Football Club by its successive owners, and the subsequent impact on staff and supporters. These proposals do nothing to restore that credibility.
It is not for us to become involved in punishment, that is a matter for the SPL and SFA. The SFL clubs are being asked to change their rules so that the SPL and SFA can apply sanctions that fit short term financial interests.
It is not for us to tell any club what they should want for themselves, but to enter anywhere other than the 3rd Division risks Rangers Football Club being burdened with the legacy of commencing its rebuilding in a manner that they later look back on with regret. Rangers Football Club does not need to be handed a competitive advantage, they are more than capable of returning to the SPL via the 3rd Division on their own merit. Rebuilding from the bottom can restore the dignity stripped from the club by its former owners.
The papers use emotive language to threaten a future of financial meltdown and they carry the implication of the destruction of the game should a Newco not be entered in the 1st Division. If things are as bad as indicated then Scottish Football is in a far worse state than is being acknowledged. In which case it is time to accept the bankrupt model needs fixed and not supported and perpetuated on the back of this proposal. The fact that other clubs might face similar financial distress because Rangers Football Club enter the 3rd Division is hardly a reason to compromise the integrity of the SFL and further compromise Rangers Football Club.
Rather than attempting to prepare a soft landing before delivering sanctions, it would be better to contemplate more radical change that might actually underpin financial stability in the long term for clubs that balance their books. Perhaps an amnesty from sanctions for clubs that are forced to face insolvency procedures in the next 2 years as a result of the current turmoil, and an automatic entry to the 3rd Division for any club liquidated and reformed in similar circumstances. This would allow 2 years to properly restructure the Scottish Game for the benefit of all and undo the damage that has been created by the current structure which encourages club directors to trade integrity for cash, and then spend beyond their means, willingly risking the very existence of football clubs. If we could believe that the game could be less self interested long enough to resolve this, then this, and other far better ideas, might be worth contemplating.
SPL clubs that have openly stated their opposition to a Newco being given immediate access to the SPL have taken the position based on their, and at times, their supporters' view of what is the right thing to do, however, the vote has still to be taken and proposals such as these are premature. If the SPL clubs vote as indicated on the basis of the increasingly discredited notion of sporting integrity, it would be questionable if the SFL clubs did otherwise.
The reality is that we are faced with unique circumstances and it would be foolish to pretend otherwise, that probably means that compromise for some is inevitable, and perhaps even worthwhile for everyone in the long term. The solution however is not this hastily cobbled together proposal.
The Board of this club sees no merit whatsoever in adopting this proposal.

[CropleyWasGod]

True. This boy Green's going to have to have very deep pockets to cover the running of the club for the next few years. I'd think his consortium will all have squeeky bums the now as well, what a ridiculous 'investment' buying Rangers was.

The only way he'll get any return, realistically, is to sell the property.

Can't say I'm upset about any of this, frankly.

...if, to bang my usual drum, he does own it.

Even if he does, if he sells it for substantially more than he paid for it, the creditors of RFC may well have a case for suing him for the profit. If he is an asset stripper, I reckon his plan was to make money from selling the players. That worked. :rolleyes:

[Saorsa]

Club Statement: Reconstruction Proposal


Sat, 30th Jun 2012 12:48pm
The Club has received a set of papers in advance of the SFL meeting on Tuesday. The essential intent behind those papers is to induce the SFL clubs to agree a proposal to allow a Newco to enter the SFL in the 1st Division in exchange for a range of structural changes to the current set up and some small financial inducements. Some of the proposed changes have merit in principle.
The Board believe that any proposals for change should not be rushed, as these have been. They also have to be done by consensus and not through threat or inducement, again, as these have been.
The papers include a proposal to allow a Newco to enter the 1st Division. This is contrary to the rules of the SFL and nothing within the papers justifies this proposal.
As a club owned by its supporters and recovering from having been on the brink of extinction, the Board of Clyde Football Club recognise the damage done to the credibility of Rangers Football Club by its successive owners, and the subsequent impact on staff and supporters. These proposals do nothing to restore that credibility.
It is not for us to become involved in punishment, that is a matter for the SPL and SFA. The SFL clubs are being asked to change their rules so that the SPL and SFA can apply sanctions that fit short term financial interests.
It is not for us to tell any club what they should want for themselves, but to enter anywhere other than the 3rd Division risks Rangers Football Club being burdened with the legacy of commencing its rebuilding in a manner that they later look back on with regret. Rangers Football Club does not need to be handed a competitive advantage, they are more than capable of returning to the SPL via the 3rd Division on their own merit. Rebuilding from the bottom can restore the dignity stripped from the club by its former owners.
The papers use emotive language to threaten a future of financial meltdown and they carry the implication of the destruction of the game should a Newco not be entered in the 1st Division. If things are as bad as indicated then Scottish Football is in a far worse state than is being acknowledged. In which case it is time to accept the bankrupt model needs fixed and not supported and perpetuated on the back of this proposal. The fact that other clubs might face similar financial distress because Rangers Football Club enter the 3rd Division is hardly a reason to compromise the integrity of the SFL and further compromise Rangers Football Club.
Rather than attempting to prepare a soft landing before delivering sanctions, it would be better to contemplate more radical change that might actually underpin financial stability in the long term for clubs that balance their books. Perhaps an amnesty from sanctions for clubs that are forced to face insolvency procedures in the next 2 years as a result of the current turmoil, and an automatic entry to the 3rd Division for any club liquidated and reformed in similar circumstances. This would allow 2 years to properly restructure the Scottish Game for the benefit of all and undo the damage that has been created by the current structure which encourages club directors to trade integrity for cash, and then spend beyond their means, willingly risking the very existence of football clubs. If we could believe that the game could be less self interested long enough to resolve this, then this, and other far better ideas, might be worth contemplating.
SPL clubs that have openly stated their opposition to a Newco being given immediate access to the SPL have taken the position based on their, and at times, their supporters' view of what is the right thing to do, however, the vote has still to be taken and proposals such as these are premature. If the SPL clubs vote as indicated on the basis of the increasingly discredited notion of sporting integrity, it would be questionable if the SFL clubs did otherwise.
The reality is that we are faced with unique circumstances and it would be foolish to pretend otherwise, that probably means that compromise for some is inevitable, and perhaps even worthwhile for everyone in the long term. The solution however is not this hastily cobbled together proposal.
The Board of this club sees no merit whatsoever in adopting this proposal.An excellent statement, it would seem after all with the statements from some of the SFL clubs there are people within fitba that know right from wrong, have a sense of fair play and justice and some moral fibre. It's a pity there are none within the corridors of power at SFA, in the SPL board room or at their clubs.

[The Green Goblin]

Bob...PLEASE send this as a letter to the Scotsman/Herald or somewhere like that. It needs to be read widely. Great post!


You might have to take out the 4th line of the 3rd paragraph though... :greengrin

[The Harp Awakes]

An excellent statement, it would seem after all with the statements from some of the SFL clubs there are people within fitba that know right from wrong, have a sense of fair play and justice and some moral fibre. It's a pity there are none within the corridors of power at SFA, in the SPL board room or at their clubs.

Yes, well done Clyde. It's heartening to hear that there are still some people with a backbone in the Scottish game.

[matty_f]

An excellent statement, it would seem after all with the statements from some of the SFL clubs there are people within fitba that know right from wrong, have a sense of fair play and justice and some moral fibre. It's a pity there are none within the corridors of power at SFA, in the SPL board room or at their clubs.

:agree: Well said.

[MyJo]

Club Statement: Reconstruction Proposal
Sat, 30th Jun 2012 12:48pm
The Club has received a set of papers in advance of the SFL meeting on Tuesday. The essential intent behind those papers is to induce the SFL clubs to agree a proposal to allow a Newco to enter the SFL in the 1st Division in exchange for a range of structural changes to the current set up and some small financial inducements. Some of the proposed changes have merit in principle.
The Board believe that any proposals for change should not be rushed, as these have been. They also have to be done by consensus and not through threat or inducement, again, as these have been.
The papers include a proposal to allow a Newco to enter the 1st Division. This is contrary to the rules of the SFL and nothing within the papers justifies this proposal.
As a club owned by its supporters and recovering from having been on the brink of extinction, the Board of Clyde Football Club recognise the damage done to the credibility of Rangers Football Club by its successive owners, and the subsequent impact on staff and supporters. These proposals do nothing to restore that credibility.
It is not for us to become involved in punishment, that is a matter for the SPL and SFA. The SFL clubs are being asked to change their rules so that the SPL and SFA can apply sanctions that fit short term financial interests.
It is not for us to tell any club what they should want for themselves, but to enter anywhere other than the 3rd Division risks Rangers Football Club being burdened with the legacy of commencing its rebuilding in a manner that they later look back on with regret. Rangers Football Club does not need to be handed a competitive advantage, they are more than capable of returning to the SPL via the 3rd Division on their own merit. Rebuilding from the bottom can restore the dignity stripped from the club by its former owners.
The papers use emotive language to threaten a future of financial meltdown and they carry the implication of the destruction of the game should a Newco not be entered in the 1st Division. If things are as bad as indicated then Scottish Football is in a far worse state than is being acknowledged. In which case it is time to accept the bankrupt model needs fixed and not supported and perpetuated on the back of this proposal. The fact that other clubs might face similar financial distress because Rangers Football Club enter the 3rd Division is hardly a reason to compromise the integrity of the SFL and further compromise Rangers Football Club.
Rather than attempting to prepare a soft landing before delivering sanctions, it would be better to contemplate more radical change that might actually underpin financial stability in the long term for clubs that balance their books. Perhaps an amnesty from sanctions for clubs that are forced to face insolvency procedures in the next 2 years as a result of the current turmoil, and an automatic entry to the 3rd Division for any club liquidated and reformed in similar circumstances. This would allow 2 years to properly restructure the Scottish Game for the benefit of all and undo the damage that has been created by the current structure which encourages club directors to trade integrity for cash, and then spend beyond their means, willingly risking the very existence of football clubs. If we could believe that the game could be less self interested long enough to resolve this, then this, and other far better ideas, might be worth contemplating.
SPL clubs that have openly stated their opposition to a Newco being given immediate access to the SPL have taken the position based on their, and at times, their supporters' view of what is the right thing to do, however, the vote has still to be taken and proposals such as these are premature. If the SPL clubs vote as indicated on the basis of the increasingly discredited notion of sporting integrity, it would be questionable if the SFL clubs did otherwise.
The reality is that we are faced with unique circumstances and it would be foolish to pretend otherwise, that probably means that compromise for some is inevitable, and perhaps even worthwhile for everyone in the long term. The solution however is not this hastily cobbled together proposal.
The Board of this club sees no merit whatsoever in adopting this proposal.

Magnificent!

[degenerated]

I read it yesterday and didn't realise that I had. I thought I was reading a spoof document posted on the internet as satire. Those responsible should be ashamed.

Regan and Doncaster should be removed from office forthwith over that document. Petrie has to come out categorically deny any involvement in this shameful episode or his position at hibs is now untenable.

[Pete]

What's the deal with voting regarding letting this newco into the football league at any level.

Do all the SPL clubs and SFL clubs vote or is it just the SFL clubs...or is it just the clubs who's league will be letting a new club in?

What percentages are needed to let them in? Could a no vote from a percentage of clubs basically leave rangers with nowhere to play?

Sorry for the questions but its quite hard to follow. Its as if its turning into a clubs vs associations situation.

[StevieC]

But for me it doesn't matter anymore what happens with the Huns now because I have already had enough and bought two season tickets for myself and my son at St James Park next season.
And do know what?
Am looking forward to it so much, I can't wait.:

It is possible to do both. :wink:

I've had season tickets for both since 1999. And hopefully with a good run in the Europa Cup you'll get football Saturdays AND Sundays.

What stand you in? I'll look out for you on the train.

[Dashing Bob S]

Regan and Doncaster should be removed from office forthwith over that document. Petrie has to come out categorically deny any involvement in this shameful episode or his position at hibs is now untenable.

Their vision for Scottish League Football, yesterday, today, and tomorrow: 4 Rangers v Celtic games per season. How can we have minimum disruption to this?

We could have a nuclear strike on our country and those buffoons would be crawling from the wreckage muttering, 'right...how are we going to get four Old Firm games...'

[weecounty hibby]

Their vision for Scottish League Football, yesterday, today, and tomorrow: 4 Rangers v Celtic games per season. How can we have minimum disruption to this?

We could have a nuclear strike on our country and those buffoons would be crawling from the wreckage muttering, 'right...how are we going to get four Old Firm games...'

Their utopia would be 36 X OF games per season in the SPL and all the rest can sort themselves out in the other divisions. Pair of jokers who are trying to con every single fan of every single club in Scotland. Thankfully it looks like the "wee" clubs seem to have some balls and are standing up to them

[LeighLoyal]

True. This boy Green's going to have to have very deep pockets to cover the running of the club for the next few years. I'd think his consortium will all have squeeky bums the now as well, what a ridiculous 'investment' buying Rangers was.The only way he'll get any return, realistically, is to sell the property.Can't say I'm upset about any of this, frankly.Would love to see that happen and the grains of sand are ticking for that outcome. Strangle this newborn devil at birth!

[alexedwards]

What's the deal with voting regarding letting this newco into the football league at any level.

Do all the SPL clubs and SFL clubs vote or is it just the SFL clubs...or is it just the clubs who's league will be letting a new club in?

What percentages are needed to let them in? Could a no vote from a percentage of clubs basically leave rangers with nowhere to play?

Sorry for the questions but its quite hard to follow. Its as if its turning into a clubs vs associations situation.


All SFL clubs vote on any amendments to their structure. As is stands there are 30 clubs as we don't know who is going to SPL.
For a change to succeed a 75% majority is required. Therefore, if 1 club moves to SPL and 29 are left then Newco will require
22 votes in their favour to get in to SFL3.
SPL clubs don't vote on SFL business and vice-versa that is why the SPL broke away in the first place.
The SFL clubs always appear to reflect the overall fans views in their own ambitions for Scottish football - and the SPL clubs
appear to do anything Celtic/Rangers want.

[One Day Soon]

This new club may well end up plying its trade in Div 3 next season - if it is very lucky. It certainly seems unlikely that it will be accepted into SFL 1.

If they go to 3 or out altogether for a period we will all be relieved and feel that justice has been done. But I'm afraid that this episode covering the slow motion car crash that is the fall of Rangers has seen taking place in parallel what I regard to be a far greater, deeper and more damaging scandal.

The people who run Scottish football have been definitively exposed in an irrecoverable way. The game is a sham. The rules are a sham. The fans are regarded as zombie bodies to be kept barely alive so that the parasites can suck our financial blood for as long as possible.

This isn't going away. This is just the beginning.

[Onion]

Club Statement: Reconstruction Proposal
Sat, 30th Jun 2012 12:48pm
The Club has received a set of papers in advance of the SFL meeting on Tuesday. The essential intent behind those papers is to induce the SFL clubs to agree a proposal to allow a Newco to enter the SFL in the 1st Division in exchange for a range of structural changes to the current set up and some small financial inducements. Some of the proposed changes have merit in principle.
The Board believe that any proposals for change should not be rushed, as these have been. They also have to be done by consensus and not through threat or inducement, again, as these have been.
The papers include a proposal to allow a Newco to enter the 1st Division. This is contrary to the rules of the SFL and nothing within the papers justifies this proposal.
As a club owned by its supporters and recovering from having been on the brink of extinction, the Board of Clyde Football Club recognise the damage done to the credibility of Rangers Football Club by its successive owners, and the subsequent impact on staff and supporters. These proposals do nothing to restore that credibility.
It is not for us to become involved in punishment, that is a matter for the SPL and SFA. The SFL clubs are being asked to change their rules so that the SPL and SFA can apply sanctions that fit short term financial interests.
It is not for us to tell any club what they should want for themselves, but to enter anywhere other than the 3rd Division risks Rangers Football Club being burdened with the legacy of commencing its rebuilding in a manner that they later look back on with regret. Rangers Football Club does not need to be handed a competitive advantage, they are more than capable of returning to the SPL via the 3rd Division on their own merit. Rebuilding from the bottom can restore the dignity stripped from the club by its former owners.
The papers use emotive language to threaten a future of financial meltdown and they carry the implication of the destruction of the game should a Newco not be entered in the 1st Division. If things are as bad as indicated then Scottish Football is in a far worse state than is being acknowledged. In which case it is time to accept the bankrupt model needs fixed and not supported and perpetuated on the back of this proposal. The fact that other clubs might face similar financial distress because Rangers Football Club enter the 3rd Division is hardly a reason to compromise the integrity of the SFL and further compromise Rangers Football Club.
Rather than attempting to prepare a soft landing before delivering sanctions, it would be better to contemplate more radical change that might actually underpin financial stability in the long term for clubs that balance their books. Perhaps an amnesty from sanctions for clubs that are forced to face insolvency procedures in the next 2 years as a result of the current turmoil, and an automatic entry to the 3rd Division for any club liquidated and reformed in similar circumstances. This would allow 2 years to properly restructure the Scottish Game for the benefit of all and undo the damage that has been created by the current structure which encourages club directors to trade integrity for cash, and then spend beyond their means, willingly risking the very existence of football clubs. If we could believe that the game could be less self interested long enough to resolve this, then this, and other far better ideas, might be worth contemplating.
SPL clubs that have openly stated their opposition to a Newco being given immediate access to the SPL have taken the position based on their, and at times, their supporters' view of what is the right thing to do, however, the vote has still to be taken and proposals such as these are premature. If the SPL clubs vote as indicated on the basis of the increasingly discredited notion of sporting integrity, it would be questionable if the SFL clubs did otherwise.
The reality is that we are faced with unique circumstances and it would be foolish to pretend otherwise, that probably means that compromise for some is inevitable, and perhaps even worthwhile for everyone in the long term. The solution however is not this hastily cobbled together proposal.
The Board of this club sees no merit whatsoever in adopting this proposal.

What an excellent, well considered response. I don't agree with it all but the logic and calm tone puts the original document to shame. Once the SPL and SFL have all voted NO to Newco and the threatened SPL2 is thrown out as a discredited piece of crap, Regan & Doncaster should RESIGN or be FIRED. They have been found out for either being corrupt or utterly incompetent. What a complete mess.

[Onion]

This new club may well end up plying its trade in Div 3 next season - if it is very lucky. It certainly seems unlikely that it will be accepted into SFL 1.

If they go to 3 or out altogether for a period we will all be relieved and feel that justice has been done. But I'm afraid that this episode covering the slow motion car crash that is the fall of Rangers has seen taking place in parallel what I regard to be a far greater, deeper and more damaging scandal.

The people who run Scottish football have been definitively exposed in an irrecoverable way. The game is a sham. The rules are a sham. The fans are regarded as zombie bodies to be kept barely alive so that the parasites can suck our financial blood for as long as possible.

This isn't going away. This is just the beginning.

:agree:Once this episode is over, we need a proper revolution in the game, lead by decent leaders (probably from the SFL) and journalists who will stand up for the good of the game and its fan base. And we can ship in some foreign refs as well :greengrin

[joe breezy]

What an excellent, well considered response. I don't agree with it all but the logic and calm tone puts the original document to shame. Once the SPL and SFL have all voted NO to Newco and the threatened SPL2 is thrown out as a discredited piece of crap, Regan & Doncaster should RESIGN or be FIRED. They have been found out for either being corrupt or utterly incompetent. What a complete mess.

Great response - if Rod Petrie has been party to the threatening document with its bribery he should say so and come out with a similar statement.

Not good enough so far I'm afraid

[keithkeith]

I'm trying to copy / paste this and do it all without a 3G connection, so apologies if this doesn't work.

As stated before in other posts, I am involved with an SFL Club, but I am a lifelong Hibs fan.

We, in the SFL, have had a gun placed to our heads and this document leaked to the BBC recently is really a disgrace. It's scaremongering at best, morally bankrupt at worst!

We have spent a long time thinking out a carefully written response across the Board members. It's a strong view on the situation we find ourselves in today in Scottish football.

It's strong and clear and to the point. We cannot lie down to Stewart Regan and Neil Doncaster's rushed proposals, whether we are Hibs or an SFL Club?

They should both step down on Tuesday at Hampden. If no-one beats me to it, I'll demand they do.


http://www.clydefc.co.uk/news/2012/06/30/4134/

[Pete]

All SFL clubs vote on any amendments to their structure. As is stands there are 30 clubs as we don't know who is going to SPL.
For a change to succeed a 75% majority is required. Therefore, if 1 club moves to SPL and 29 are left then Newco will require
22 votes in their favour to get in to SFL3.
SPL clubs don't vote on SFL business and vice-versa that is why the SPL broke away in the first place.
The SFL clubs always appear to reflect the overall fans views in their own ambitions for Scottish football - and the SPL clubs
appear to do anything Celtic/Rangers want.

So if eight third division clubs decide they don't want newco taking the vacancy that's effectively it then? Even eight clubs in total from all the SFL leagues could finish them.
The diddy teams have the SFA,SPL,SFL and newco by the balls.

[JimBHibees]

Is it clear who was behind the proposal i.e was it all the SPL clubs or a cobbled together view of SPL/SFA or a particular committee etc. Reason I ask is that when it was being released Stuart Milne came out with a statement that Rangers should be treated like any other club.

[ronaldo7]

What an excellent, well considered response. I don't agree with it all but the logic and calm tone puts the original document to shame. Once the SPL and SFL have all voted NO to Newco and the threatened SPL2 is thrown out as a discredited piece of crap, Regan & Doncaster should RESIGN or be FIRED. They have been found out for either being corrupt or utterly incompetent. What a complete mess.
Bully furra bully wee.

[jgl07]

I think there is a lot of needless panic on this thread.

Rangers are dead in the water as regards the SPL with at least seven clubs against them now that St Mirren have joined the no camp.

Their player exodus has panned out as expected with Bocanegra and Edu joining the others.The former is officially undecided but has declared he would not transfer if Rangers were not in the SPL. If that is not bad enough for Rangers, Kirk Broadfoot has turned up for preseason training.

The SFL clubs are coming out against Rangers in numbers as may be expected as they are community clubs and more likely to be in closer touch with the wishes of their supporters. So far we have Dunfermline, Partick, Morton, Falkirk, Raith, Peterhead and Clyde. Only one more is needed to block the move. Two clubs - Airdrie United and Albion Rovers - will miss out on promotion if Rangers are parachuted into Division One.

The document was certainly written on the basis of information suppliedby the SPL and appears to have Doncaster's sticky fingerprints all over it. The panic was created by the BBC reports to the effect that it was a done deal. The BBC reports, with the exception of those by Jim Spence have danced to Doncaster's tune throughout.

[PatHead]

Is it clear who was behind the proposal i.e was it all the SPL clubs or a cobbled together view of SPL/SFA or a particular committee etc. Reason I ask is that when it was being released Stuart Milne came out with a statement that Rangers should be treated like any other club.

To paraphrase Swally- We need to know the names (and addresses) of whoever has created this statement and who is trying to kill our game. In the event of the vote going against them these people should resign with immediate effect.

[Saorsa]

I think there is a lot of needless panic on this thread.

Rangers are dead in the water as regards the SPL with at least seven clubs against them now that St Mirren have joined the no camp.

Their player exodus has panned out as expected with Bocanegra and Edu joining the others.The former is officially undecided but has declared he would not transfer if Rangers were not in the SPL. If that is not bad enough for Rangers, Kirk Broadfoot has turned up for preseason training.

The SFL clubs are coming out against Rangers in numbers as may be expected as they are community clubs and more likely to be in closer touch with the wishes of their supporters. So far we have Dunfermline, Partick, Morton, Falkirk, Raith, Peterhead and Clyde. Only one more is needed to block the move. Two clubs - Airdrie United and Albion Rovers - will miss out on promotion if Rangers are parachuted into Division One.

The document was certainly written on the basis of information suppliedby the SPL and appears to have Doncaster's sticky fingerprints all over it. The panic was created by the BBC reports to the effect that it was a done deal. The BBC reports, with the exception of those by Jim Spence have danced to Doncaster's tune throughout.Nae panic as far as I'm concerned, if it does happen tae go the wrong way then it's :bye: I just want it resolved one way or the other and tae see it officially. That way I'll ken whether I'll be going tae the fitba next season or not. I winnae make a move tae spend my money though until it's a done deal.

After it's done and dusted I'd like tae see moves for all those involved in this shameless scheming tae be removed, particularly that ******* doncaster

[Seveno]

I think there is a lot of needless panic on this thread.

Rangers are dead in the water as regards the SPL with at least seven clubs against them now that St Mirren have joined the no camp.

Their player exodus has panned out as expected with Bocanegra and Edu joining the others.The former is officially undecided but has declared he would not transfer if Rangers were not in the SPL. If that is not bad enough for Rangers, Kirk Broadfoot has turned up for preseason training.

The SFL clubs are coming out against Rangers in numbers as may be expected as they are community clubs and more likely to be in closer touch with the wishes of their supporters. So far we have Dunfermline, Partick, Morton, Falkirk, Raith, Peterhead and Clyde. Only one more is needed to block the move. Two clubs - Airdrie United and Albion Rovers - will miss out on promotion if Rangers are parachuted into Division One.

The document was certainly written on the basis of information suppliedby the SPL and appears to have Doncaster's sticky fingerprints all over it. The panic was created by the BBC reports to the effect that it was a done deal. The BBC reports, with the exception of those by Jim Spence have danced to Doncaster's tune throughout.


If the Sun report is correct and they have only sold 1,000 STs then they are financially dead in the water as well. That would just about cover Alexander's wages for the season and leave nothing for the remaining 12 players. :greengrin

[tamig]

An excellent statement, it would seem after all with the statements from some of the SFL clubs there are people within fitba that know right from wrong, have a sense of fair play and justice and some moral fibre. It's a pity there are none within the corridors of power at SFA, in the SPL board room or at their clubs.

Absolutely. well done Clyde. It looks like Doncaster has underestimated the capability of the "wee clubs" to suss his outlandish gobbledygook out for themselves. Well done the Bully wee.

[Twa Cairpets]

Is it clear who was behind the proposal i.e was it all the SPL clubs or a cobbled together view of SPL/SFA or a particular committee etc. Reason I ask is that when it was being released Stuart Milne came out with a statement that Rangers should be treated like any other club.

I think this is critical, and I think you're right.

The "Document" was so appalling I find it very difficult to believe it was sanctioned by the collective SPL Chairmen. If you look a the statements put out by the majority of clubs, it is completely at odds with the tone and the content, which has generally been one of considered realism. The one issused last week was the diametric opposite. Can you really believe the 'tache would put his name to that? Have we ever seen anything even faintly similar in the years he's been at ER? I also think Regan is away at the moment. (Having seen the other stuff Regan has been invoved in within the SFA which I think is very good - the "Scotland United" plan is good, if not somewhat ironic given the current circumstances - it is also completely at odds with the considered and, for the most part, sensible stuff he has issued).

I think Doncaster is the man to blame here, fairly and squarely. It is primarily an SPL document, and I think it does bear his hallmarks of panic and tunnel vision when it comes to the Hun.

Calls for peoples heads is, as this stage premature. The only source I've seen about Petrie/Green was a report on STV without any substance as to the content of the meeting. We dont know if he was wearing a Hibs, SFA or SPL hat. We dont know what th emeeting was about, but we have rushed to 2+2 equalling 4, and condemning without sufficient evidence. I hasten to add, that if the document does turn out to have been an SFA/SPL official thing and Petrie and Regan were either driving forces behind it then their position is clearly untenable.

Despite the easy "they're all corrupt" approach, there are lots of very good people employed by the SFA at all levels, and the change has been visible in the last couple of years below the level of the Professional game, and even there the introduction of the Professional Game Board has wiped away the old committee system in a bonfire of the blazers.

If there are capable people in place, then the turmoil that will follow whatever happens to the Huns is going to need them to manage the game through.

Knee jerk reactions - even if they turn out ultimately to be right, are generally not the best for long term success in any field.

[tamig]

I'm trying to copy / paste this and do it all without a 3G connection, so apologies if this doesn't work.

As stated before in other posts, I am involved with an SFL Club, but I am a lifelong Hibs fan.

We, in the SFL, have had a gun placed to our heads and this document leaked to the BBC recently is really a disgrace. It's scaremongering at best, morally bankrupt at worst!

We have spent a long time thinking out a carefully written response across the Board members. It's a strong view on the situation we find ourselves in today in Scottish football.

It's strong and clear and to the point. We cannot lie down to Stewart Regan and Neil Doncaster's rushed proposals, whether we are Hibs or an SFL Club?

They should both step down on Tuesday at Hampden. If no-one beats me to it, I'll demand they do.


http://www.clydefc.co.uk/news/2012/06/30/4134/

The key thing for me in that document is the complete lack of justification or evidence for any of the "facts" mentioned. Figures being spouted which have been exposed as sheer bluster on other sites and this "financial meltdown" phrase. SFL clubs have survived for long enough on a shoestring. If Rangers end up playing in D3 - if at all - then that can only have a positive financial impact on them.

[Seveno]

I see that Newco have issued a statement saying that they have cancelled all Direct Debits for STs due to the confusion about where the money was going. It seems that they are banking with the Metro Bank. No, I've never heard of it either.

[alexedwards]

So if eight third division clubs decide they don't want newco taking the vacancy that's effectively it then? Even eight clubs in total from all the SFL leagues could finish them.
The diddy teams have the SFA,SPL,SFL and newco by the balls.


8 clubs from 29 SFL clubs (any vote will be for all SFL clubs not on a divisional basis) for whatever proposal - you got it. :aok:

[HibbyRod]

I think this is critical, and I think you're right.

The "Document" was so appalling I find it very difficult to believe it was sanctioned by the collective SPL Chairmen. If you look a the statements put out by the majority of clubs, it is completely at odds with the tone and the content, which has generally been one of considered realism. The one issused last week was the diametric opposite. Can you really believe the 'tache would put his name to that? Have we ever seen anything even faintly similar in the years he's been at ER? I also think Regan is away at the moment. (Having seen the other stuff Regan has been invoved in within the SFA which I think is very good - the "Scotland United" plan is good, if not somewhat ironic given the current circumstances - it is also completely at odds with the considered and, for the most part, sensible stuff he has issued).

I think Doncaster is the man to blame here, fairly and squarely. It is primarily an SPL document, and I think it does bear his hallmarks of panic and tunnel vision when it comes to the Hun.

Calls for peoples heads is, as this stage premature. The only source I've seen about Petrie/Green was a report on STV without any substance as to the content of the meeting. We dont know if he was wearing a Hibs, SFA or SPL hat. We dont know what th emeeting was about, but we have rushed to 2+2 equalling 4, and condemning without sufficient evidence. I hasten to add, that if the document does turn out to have been an SFA/SPL official thing and Petrie and Regan were either driving forces behind it then their position is clearly untenable.

Despite the easy "they're all corrupt" approach, there are lots of very good people employed by the SFA at all levels, and the change has been visible in the last couple of years below the level of the Professional game, and even there the introduction of the Professional Game Board has wiped away the old committee system in a bonfire of the blazers.

If there are capable people in place, then the turmoil that will follow whatever happens to the Huns is going to need them to manage the game through.

Knee jerk reactions - even if they turn out ultimately to be right, are generally not the best for long term success in any field.

Great post Mr Cairpets! :aok:

I really hope you are right in that this has been driven by Doncaster, and that our leader had nothing to do with this scandalous document.

The threatening of the SFL clubs was completely beyond belief, and I don't believe for a second that Rod Petrie would be involved in condoning this shambolic "document".

[Saorsa]

Great post Mr Cairpets! :aok:

I really hope you are right in that this has been driven by Doncaster, and that our leader had nothing to do with this scandalous document.

The threatening of the SFL clubs was completely beyond belief, and I don't believe for a second that Rod Petrie would be involved in condoning this shambolic "document".I agree about it being scandalous but if doncaster is out there on his own agenda with this then I'd like tae ken why we've heard nothing from the SPL chairmen after the issue of that outrageous document came tae light and why he hasnae been brought tae book by the people he's supposed tae be working for. If the SPL clubs have nae involvement in this then then I'd like tae hear that (otherwise the suspicion remains) and they should get that **** tae **** out the door.

[HibbyRod]

I agree about it being scandalous but if doncaster is out there on his own agenda with this then I'd like tae ken why we've heard nothing from the SPL chairmen after the issue of that outrageous document came tae light and why he hasnae been brought tae book by the people he's supposed tae be working for. If the SPL clubs have nae involement in this then they should get that **** tae **** out the door.

:agree: Totally agree DD! :aok:

[lapsedhibee]

We cannot lie down to Stewart Regan and Neil Doncaster's rushed proposals, whether we are Hibs or an SFL Club?

They should both step down on Tuesday at Hampden. If no-one beats me to it, I'll demand they do.


excellentexcellent

[rcarter1]

Having just read "the Document", I am similarly appalled by its contents. Well done to Clyde for its response to it. I am still unclear as to who and with what other authority prepared this document. I also agree that if Rod Petrie was involved in this his position is untenable, and I will never go to Easter Road again until he leaves. However, I generally support RP in many things and am therefore anxious to give him the benefit of the doubt until the facts are known. Those who prepared this document, I hope are expelled from the Scottish game.

[blackpoolhibs]

http://t.co/3Mcexhjz

[jgl07]

http://t.co/3Mcexhjz

Another fine mess!

[NAE NOOKIE]

Well done Clyde .... a well thought out and excellent statement.

Its no secret that I would have been prepared to tolerate the newco in Div1 ... but I would much rather they started at the very bottom, for everybodys sake. I am well aware that most Scottish fans are against Div1 entry and I cant say I'm sorry that its beginning to look like the SFL clubs are too.

Get them into Div3 and lets get on with sorting out the game in this country properly. We could start by getting rid of anybody in the SPL or SFA who have had anything to do with the fact that this bloody farce has dragged on for so long.

Its been tragic that it has taken fan power to force them to face up to the decisions they should have been making all along.

[steakbake]

Well done Clyde .... a well thought out and excellent statement.

Its no secret that I would have been prepared to tolerate the newco in Div1 ... but I would much rather they started at the very bottom, for everybodys sake. I am well aware that most Scottish fans are against Div1 entry and I cant say I'm sorry that its beginning to look like the SFL clubs are too.

Get them into Div3 and lets get on with sorting out the game in this country properly. We could start by getting rid of anybody in the SPL or SFA who have had anything to do with the fact that this bloody farce has dragged on for so long.

Its been tragic that it has taken fan power to force them to face up to the decisions they should have been making all along.

Amen to that. Once/if this all gets sorted out, Ogilvie, Doncaster and Regan should consider their positions. As administrators, they've proved themselves inept.

[Onion]

Having just read "the Document", I am similarly appalled by its contents. Well done to Clyde for its response to it. I am still unclear as to who and with what other authority prepared this document. I also agree that if Rod Petrie was involved in this his position is untenable, and I will never go to Easter Road again until he leaves. However, I generally support RP in many things and am therefore anxious to give him the benefit of the doubt until the facts are known. Those who prepared this document, I hope are expelled from the Scottish game.

IMHO once Newco find their right level (in the 3rd or lower) you will see every chairman in the SPL distance themselves from this whole sorry affair - and esp that document. Survival mode will kick in :rolleyes: It is truly a shocker that smacks of desperation/panic with no care for the consequences or the thrashings of a dying man ?

[weecounty hibby]

Amen to that. Once/if this all gets sorted out, Ogilvie, Doncaster and Regan should consider their positions. As administrators, they've proved themselves inept.
It shouldn't be up to them they should be fired from their positions. They have failed miserably to improve the SPL, SFA, SFL and their latest efforts at manufacturing a position for the Huns is nothing short of corruption.

[Caversham Green]

Having just read "the Document", I am similarly appalled by its contents. Well done to Clyde for its response to it. I am still unclear as to who and with what other authority prepared this document. I also agree that if Rod Petrie was involved in this his position is untenable, and I will never go to Easter Road again until he leaves. However, I generally support RP in many things and am therefore anxious to give him the benefit of the doubt until the facts are known. Those who prepared this document, I hope are expelled from the Scottish game.

Having given this some thought, it wouldn't surprise me if it emerged that the author of the document was Mr Charles Green.

I got the impression from the news reports that it was circulated by the SFL, but no-one seems to have actually put their name to it and that is very unusual - normally there would be a covering letter or foreword signed by the president/CEO/secretary or someone. It also doesn't read like a document produced by a committee like the SFL or other boards, nor does it look like it was produced by a solicitor like Doncaster or an accountant like Petrie.

What it reads like is a prospectus for a dodgy invesment 'opportunity' and I believe that is Green's stock in trade. He has also shown complete contempt towards the intelligence of anyone that isn't wearing his socks and this document is basically an insult to the reader's intelligence. Green also appears to be very, very stupid and appears to think he can gat away with blatant lies.

If it wasn't actually sent out by Charley, I'm becoming convinced that he was the author.

[WindyMiller]

I think this is critical, and I think you're right.

The "Document" was so appalling I find it very difficult to believe it was sanctioned by the collective SPL Chairmen. If you look a the statements put out by the majority of clubs, it is completely at odds with the tone and the content, which has generally been one of considered realism. The one issused last week was the diametric opposite. Can you really believe the 'tache would put his name to that? Have we ever seen anything even faintly similar in the years he's been at ER? I also think Regan is away at the moment. (Having seen the other stuff Regan has been invoved in within the SFA which I think is very good - the "Scotland United" plan is good, if not somewhat ironic given the current circumstances - it is also completely at odds with the considered and, for the most part, sensible stuff he has issued).

I think Doncaster is the man to blame here, fairly and squarely. It is primarily an SPL document, and I think it does bear his hallmarks of panic and tunnel vision when it comes to the Hun.

Calls for peoples heads is, as this stage premature. The only source I've seen about Petrie/Green was a report on STV without any substance as to the content of the meeting. We dont know if he was wearing a Hibs, SFA or SPL hat. We dont know what th emeeting was about, but we have rushed to 2+2 equalling 4, and condemning without sufficient evidence. I hasten to add, that if the document does turn out to have been an SFA/SPL official thing and Petrie and Regan were either driving forces behind it then their position is clearly untenable.

Despite the easy "they're all corrupt" approach, there are lots of very good people employed by the SFA at all levels, and the change has been visible in the last couple of years below the level of the Professional game, and even there the introduction of the Professional Game Board has wiped away the old committee system in a bonfire of the blazers.

If there are capable people in place, then the turmoil that will follow whatever happens to the Huns is going to need them to manage the game through.

Knee jerk reactions - even if they turn out ultimately to be right, are generally not the best for long term success in any field.



I've highlighted what I think are the important parts of your post.

Doncaster is apparently going to speak at the SFL meeting next week and is obviously continuing his desperate attempt to get the Huns back in the SPL asap.

As for RP's meeting with Green; the St Mirren chairman also met with Green last week ,and told him he'd be voting no to Newco in the SPL.

Of course RP was probably concocting some devious scheme that's totally the opposite of his statements so far.:rolleyes:

[GreenCastle]

Well done Clyde - good statement :aok:

Regarding Regan - I think he's actually a good guy from what I've heard from him and what he is trying to do.

The other ones like Doncaster - not too sure about him :rolleyes:

[CropleyWasGod]

Having given this some thought, it wouldn't surprise me if it emerged that the author of the document was Mr Charles Green.

I got the impression from the news reports that it was circulated by the SFL, but no-one seems to have actually put their name to it and that is very unusual - normally there would be a covering letter or foreword signed by the president/CEO/secretary or someone. It also doesn't read like a document produced by a committee like the SFL or other boards, nor does it look like it was produced by a solicitor like Doncaster or an accountant like Petrie.

What it reads like is a prospectus for a dodgy invesment 'opportunity' and I believe that is Green's stock in trade. He has also shown complete contempt towards the intelligence of anyone that isn't wearing his socks and this document is basically an insult to the reader's intelligence. Green also appears to be very, very stupid and appears to think he can gat away with blatant lies.

If it wasn't actually sent out by Charley, I'm becoming convinced that he was the author.

I share your scepticism about the appalling quality of the document. However, given that it has been in the public domain for long enough now, wouldn't you think that someone from the SFL (Longmuir etc.) would have denied that it came from them?

It has also crossed my mind that RP's name has been dropped in, to try and cause some split amongst the non-OF support. That part has certainly worked.... on here at least.:rolleyes:

[joe breezy]

I see that Newco have issued a statement saying that they have cancelled all Direct Debits for STs due to the confusion about where the money was going. It seems that they are banking with the Metro Bank. No, I've never heard of it either.

Supposed to be an alright bank, mostly branches in London.

Not sure about their business banking. I imagine they take people with bad credit ratings!

[Caversham Green]

I share your scepticism about the appalling quality of the document. However, given that it has been in the public domain for long enough now, wouldn't you think that someone from the SFL (Longmuir etc.) would have denied that it came from them?

It has also crossed my mind that RP's name has been dropped in, to try and cause some split amongst the non-OF support. That part has certainly worked.... on here at least.:rolleyes:

Yes, I would but I would also have expected some sort of comment from whoever issued it anyway and there has been a deafening silence from the authorities. To be honest I'm just gobsmacked about the whole thing and my Green theory is the only one that really makes any modicum of sense to me. Whoever produced it and authorised its distribution is not fit to be in a position of authority IMHO.

One point, if it was produced by the SFL then neither Petrie nor Doncaster is directly implicated and Regan seems to be on holiday but they seem to be getting all the flak. Shirley there's more to come on this.

[CropleyWasGod]

Yes, I would but I would also have expected some sort of comment from whoever issued it anyway and there has been a deafening silence from the authorities. To be honest I'm just gobsmacked about the whole thing and my Green theory is the only one that really makes any modicum of sense to me. Whoever produced it and authorised its distribution is not fit to be in a position of authority IMHO.

One point, if it was produced by the SFL then neither Petrie nor Doncaster is directly implicated and Regan seems to be on holiday but they seem to be getting all the flak. Shirley there's more to come on this.

According to the SFL website, they HAVE issued a briefing document. http://www.scottishfootballleague.com/news/article/press-statement-52/

Whether that is the one in the media, though..... :cb

[Jim44]

Having given this some thought, it wouldn't surprise me if it emerged that the author of the document was Mr Charles Green.

I got the impression from the news reports that it was circulated by the SFL, but no-one seems to have actually put their name to it and that is very unusual - normally there would be a covering letter or foreword signed by the president/CEO/secretary or someone. It also doesn't read like a document produced by a committee like the SFL or other boards, nor does it look like it was produced by a solicitor like Doncaster or an accountant like Petrie.

What it reads like is a prospectus for a dodgy invesment 'opportunity' and I believe that is Green's stock in trade. He has also shown complete contempt towards the intelligence of anyone that isn't wearing his socks and this document is basically an insult to the reader's intelligence. Green also appears to be very, very stupid and appears to think he can gat away with blatant lies.

If it wasn't actually sent out by Charley, I'm becoming convinced that he was the author.

Much as I'd love your intuition to be correct, I can't believe for a second that Green had anything to do with it. He would be well and truly out of the game if his involvement came to light.

[s.a.m]

I've kind of assumed it was from Longmuir, following discussions with SPL. I'm not sure if I came to that conclusion as a result of something I read, or if I'm just making assumptions.

[Caversham Green]

According to the SFL website, they HAVE issued a briefing document. http://www.scottishfootballleague.com/news/article/press-statement-52/

Whether that is the one in the media, though..... :cb

It's the right date so it probably is the one we've seen. I note the Clyde statement refers to a set of papers though, that would suggest there's rather more to it than has appeared in the press. Still an astonishingly bad document though.


Much as I'd love your intuition to be correct, I can't believe for a second that Green had anything to do with it. He would be well and truly out of the game if his involvement came to light.

There's nothing to prevent Green lobbying the SFL clubs, and that's really what the document we've seen does. In any case, i suspect he will be out of the game anyway if his tawdry little company has to start in SFL3.

[CropleyWasGod]

It's the right date so it probably is the one we've seen. I note the Clyde statement refers to a set of papers though, that would suggest there's rather more to it than has appeared in the press. Still an astonishingly bad document though.



There's nothing to prevent Green lobbying the SFL clubs, and that's really what the document we've seen does. In any case, i suspect he will be out of the game anyway if his tawdry little company has to start in SFL3.

Soooooo.... perhaps the one we've seen is his attempt at lobbying? :confused:

[Caversham Green]

Soooooo.... perhaps the one we've seen is his attempt at lobbying? :confused:

Could he have requested that his representations were included in the agenda that was sent out ahead of the meeting? :dunno:

It just looks so much like the sort of rubbish people like him produce and so little like something that would come from a football governing body.

[vuefrom1875]

re that many spl clubs have vetoed the newco with open arms...how strange the lesser greens are siting on the fence.Methinks, let the other members do the stuff and we'll stay neutral....bunch of phoneys...views please!

[s.a.m]

It's the right date so it probably is the one we've seen. I note the Clyde statement refers to a set of papers though, that would suggest there's rather more to it than has appeared in the press. Still an astonishingly bad document though..

Maybe it was written in crayon :dunno:

[CropleyWasGod]

Could he have requested that his representations were included in the agenda that was sent out ahead of the meeting? :dunno:

It just looks so much like the sort of rubbish people like him produce and so little like something that would come from a football governing body.

Hmmm.. perhaps.

Longmuir has always struck me as a competent, honourable guy. Maybe his silence thus far is along the lines of the Hibs' usual model.... let the facts speak for themselves, let events play out and then comment.

Then again, if he is the author of the document, I am sure there are enough decent people in the SFL that will ask for his head.

[Caversham Green]

Come on CG, Much as I'd love it to be true, surely what you're suggestion is a bit far-fetched. If it was anything along the lines you're suggesting, there would have been an immediate rebuttal from the SPL,SFA and SFL. Am I suffering from some sort of irony or humour by-pass here.:greengrin

Not at all - I'm saying if it came from the SFL then Charles Green has advised them about what they should write. The document doesn't even attempt to be impartial or balanced, and that coming from a sports regulatory body is just plain wrong.

[BEEJ]

Yes, I would but I would also have expected some sort of comment from whoever issued it anyway and there has been a deafening silence from the authorities. To be honest I'm just gobsmacked about the whole thing and my Green theory is the only one that really makes any modicum of sense to me. Whoever produced it and authorised its distribution is not fit to be in a position of authority IMHO.

One point, if it was produced by the SFL then neither Petrie nor Doncaster is directly implicated and Regan seems to be on holiday but they seem to be getting all the flak. Shirley there's more to come on this.
CG, you may be correct but in the end it matters little who actually wrote the document. They just become another guilty party.

Those that agreed to it being distributed to the SFL clubs, in doing so essentially put their names to it and sanctioned its contents. Longmuir (SFL) is certainly on that list.

And given that the issue of the document followed a high-level meeting between the SPL, SFA and SFL on matters such as reconstruction, then we can surmise that it had their unanimous approval. The SPL might argue that actually this part of the decision-making has nothing to do with them; but in fact they will consider that they have a vested interest in RFC's destiny and will have lobbied accordingly.

So Doncaster, Longmuir, Regan and now probably Green are all guilty by association with this document.

[JohnStephens91]

The Old Firm essentially come as a product and together they have bullied the rest of the clubs out of money and wealth. Now that their business partners have disappeared Celtic will be scared stiff of the changes that are about to happen in the Scottish game and most notably in the SPL. They would never vote against a Newco coming in, especially one which is a zombie Rangers, because they know it would effectively signal the reversal in their fortunes. It won't happen overnight, but it will definitely happen. Lawwell is cacking his pants.

[GreenCastle]

I brought this up the other day - they have been a disgrace but not making a statement.

A while back they came out and said they don't need them to survive but they have never actually come out and said them being in the SPL is a bad thing.

I think they have got off far too lightly - considering many of their fans have such strong views about it - surely they should demand a statement from their board.

[BEEJ]

It was suggested on BBC Sportsound this afternoon that Lawell must have been hoping that all the other SPL clubs would buckle and allow RFC back into the SPL while Celtic meantime could appease their own fans by voting 'No'.

That scenario has been well and truly blown out of the water by the intervention of non-OF supporters and their clubs responding accordingly.

Moreover change in the SPL voting system and income distribution now looks odds on as Club 12 will be likely to vote with the non-OF 10 to give an 11-1 majority on any new proposals to that end.

Celtic FC are now therefore in a bit of a quandary.

[weecounty hibby]

They are both subsidiaries of the parent company Bigots Inc. They have the same identity (The Old Firm) the same sponsor (Tennants) and have done for years, same business strategy (leave Scotland) and the same vile type of cretins who inhabit their stadiums. Why would Celtic want to see Rangers fold as their future financial stability relies on them even more so than most other Scottish clubs.

[The_Exile]

Remember Celtic have got shareholders to appease. They'll vote for whatever provides them with a better return. Or they could prove they are spineless by abstaining.

[Caversham Green]

CG, you may be correct but in the end it matters little who actually wrote the document. They just become another guilty party.

Those that agreed to it being distributed to the SFL clubs, in doing so essentially put their names to it and sanctioned its contents. Longmuir (SFL) is certainly on that list.

And given that the issue of the document followed a high-level meeting between the SPL, SFA and SFL on matters such as reconstruction, then we can surmise that it had their unanimous approval. The SPL might argue that actually this part of the decision-making has nothing to do with them; but in fact they will consider that they have a vested interest in RFC's destiny and will have lobbied accordingly.

So Doncaster, Longmuir, Regan and now probably Green are all guilty by association with this document.

I quite agree - I started out thinking that the document might not have come from the SFL at all, but the statement on their website linked by CWG suggests that it did. I still find it very odd that there doesn't appear to be a name on it though. As I say, it's just the quality and nature of the document that has me puzzled. If the author is someone from the SFA/SFL/SPL they have fatally compromised their own position IMO.

[StevieC]

Amen to that. Once/if this all gets sorted out, Ogilvie, Doncaster and Regan should consider their positions. As administrators, they've proved themselves inept.

At the moment I might be willing to give Reagan the benefit of the doubt, as he has seemed reasonable in some of his previous interviews.

[Cocaine&Caviar]

So are they signing Cousin or what?

[GreenCastle]

They are both subsidiaries of the parent company Bigots Inc. They have the same identity (The Old Firm) the same sponsor (Tennants) and have done for years, same business strategy (leave Scotland) and the same vile type of cretins who inhabit their stadiums. Why would Celtic want to see Rangers fold as their future financial stability relies on them even more so than most other Scottish clubs.

People forget that the Old Firm (can you still call them that if Rangers are dead?) have always wanted to leave Scotland and make no secret of it. Then they claim they are doing their part for Scottish football in Europe etc.

Both of them are as bad as each other :sick:

[Biggie]

Yeah I must admit I was hoping the clubs would keep schtum until the vote...that way we would see where celtc's loyalties lie. I fear they will say that the other clubs have decided, and as such no need for a vote anymore.
I have no doubt celtc supporters will say NO, but I think celtc's board would say yes, but fear the backlash of their support.
Desperately hope they all vote and we see the breakdown.

[goosefat]

People forget that the Old Firm (can you still call them that if Rangers are dead?) have always wanted to leave Scotland and make no secret of it. Then they claim they are doing their part for Scottish football in Europe etc.

Both of them are as bad as each other :sick:

Yup. Different cheeks of the same spotty botty.

[21.05.2016]

Totally agree with what someone mentioned above, celtic must have been banking on the thought that the other SPL clubs would vote "YES" so they could come out with a NO to please their supporters but know that their vote didn't make a difference. Celtic board are a bit frightened now I reckon because if they vote YES, the supporters will be up in arms yet they need rangers. I reckon though that because the other clubs have assured rangers will not get SPL status, without celtic making clear what their option is, celtic will vote NO aswel as it now doesn't matter, their vote, whichever way will make no difference.

[One Day Soon]

I agree about it being scandalous but if doncaster is out there on his own agenda with this then I'd like tae ken why we've heard nothing from the SPL chairmen after the issue of that outrageous document came tae light and why he hasnae been brought tae book by the people he's supposed tae be working for. If the SPL clubs have nae involvement in this then then I'd like tae hear that (otherwise the suspicion remains) and they should get that **** tae **** out the door.

In total agreement with this DD. It looks very like either a lone gunman is responsible or there is a wider conspiracy. Whichever it is, those involved have not just shown appalling misjudgment, they are in my view acting actively against the interests of the Scottish game. They need to go.

[Jim44]

A 'no' from Celtic will solve Celtic's short term problem, that of appeasing their own fans but will highlight the longer term problem of upsetting their special relationship with the huns. A yes vote will cause short term problems with their fans (nothing that the conniving Lawwell can't handle, however) but will maintain their bond with their ugly sister, facilitating the re-marriage after the forthcoming enforced separation. They could vote either way (I have a sneaking suspicion they will vote yes) but one thing is certain ....... they won't bother one tiny bit how their vote is received by the other clubs.

[Eyrie]

Sellick will vote "no" to appease their fans. Voting "yes" will achieve nothing at this stage beyond annoying their own fans.

However once they know who the long term owners of New Huns are, they'll have a cosy little chat to smooth this over with the sweetener of offering to help New Huns get back to where Rangers RIP used to be.

[Seveno]

Having given this some thought, it wouldn't surprise me if it emerged that the author of the document was Mr Charles Green.

I got the impression from the news reports that it was circulated by the SFL, but no-one seems to have actually put their name to it and that is very unusual - normally there would be a covering letter or foreword signed by the president/CEO/secretary or someone. It also doesn't read like a document produced by a committee like the SFL or other boards, nor does it look like it was produced by a solicitor like Doncaster or an accountant like Petrie.

What it reads like is a prospectus for a dodgy invesment 'opportunity' and I believe that is Green's stock in trade. He has also shown complete contempt towards the intelligence of anyone that isn't wearing his socks and this document is basically an insult to the reader's intelligence. Green also appears to be very, very stupid and appears to think he can gat away with blatant lies.

If it wasn't actually sent out by Charley, I'm becoming convinced that he was the author.

I think that's a good shout. It certainly fits with the mix of lies and garbage that spills out of his mouth every time he opens it. I wouldn't put it passed Rod to have agreed to it going out in the full knowledge of the reaction that it would provoke.

[Eyrie]

I'd be a lot happier with a brief statement from Hibs confirming that Petrie met with Green on behalf of the SFA and not the club, and that we are not in favour of the proposal.

Right now either Petrie has lied to us about sporting integrity, or he's hiding behind the SFL clubs who have spoken out against Sevco 5088 joining Division One. Neither is acceptable.

[Seveno]

In total agreement with this DD. It looks very like either a lone gunman is responsible or there is a wider conspiracy. Whichever it is, those involved have not just shown appalling misjudgment, they are in my view acting actively against the interests of the Scottish game. They need to go.

Apparently, it was marked with a stamp 'Texas Book Depository' so I'd go for the lone gunman theory.

[CropleyWasGod]

I'd be a lot happier with a brief statement from Hibs confirming that Petrie met with Green on behalf of the SFA and not the club, and that we are not in favour of the proposal.

Right now either Petrie has lied to us about sporting integrity, or he's hiding behind the SFL clubs who have spoken out against Sevco 5088 joining Division One. Neither is acceptable.

There is, of course, the possibility that the alleged meeting didn't take place.

[Paisley Hibby]

Just had a look at Stirling Albion website and they have a link to the document issued by SFL which they are asking their members to comment on. Content is as already seen and in powerpoint format - tacky. It seems quite clear to me that this is an SFL document because it sets out what SFL is being asked to do and then sets out the conditions under which the SFL would agree to Rangers in SFL Division 1 (subject to the clubs agreeing). Here's a link http://www.safctrust.org.uk/wp-content/uploads/2012/06/Your_Game_Your_Club_Your_Future.pdf

[Seveno]

Well that's Andy Murray won again. If he doesn't win Wimbledon, that's me finished with fitba.

:confused:

[marinello59]

Well that's Andy Murray won again. If he doesn't win Wimbledon, that's me finished with fitba.

:confused:

:tee hee:

[DH1875]

Remember Celtic have got shareholders to appease. They'll vote for whatever provides them with a better return. Or they could prove they are spineless by abstaining.

They are going to vote no. I'm not saying it's how they'd like the vote to go but as it's already a given that rangers won't be getting back in, it would be suicidal for them not to. Would have been interesting to see what they'd have done if we only had 4 clubs voting no.

[marinello59]

There is nothing astonishing about their silence. Despite what their fans think Celtic are the definition of an 'establishment' club.

[steakbake]

I think they wanted to wait so their vote wasn't seen as decisive.

[IWasThere2016]

Without appearing rude, isn't it the case that you don't actually turn up to watch Hibernian? -but you will attend when we visit Tannadice - (not a dig at not turning up by the way - each to their own) - the point I'm making is that insufficient punishment to rangers being unacceptabel to you makes absolutely not a jot of difference to Hibernian FC?



Sorry SMAXXA :greengrin

I think you got the sequence of my posts wrong. FTR, I'll be at Tanna if Rangers are suitably punished and there's integrity in the game - otherwise I won't be there (or ER).

[JohnStephens91]

When are UEFA and FIFA going to step in and tell the heads of the SFA and SPL to get the **** away from Scottish football as they are corrupt and incompetent?

[bighairyfaeleith]

Well that's Andy Murray won again. If he doesn't win Wimbledon, that's me finished with fitba.

:confused:

Quality

Sent from my GT-I9001 using Tapatalk 2

[whiskyhibby]

I think you got the sequence of my post wrong. FTR, I'll be at Tanna if Rangers are suitably punished and there's integrity in the game - otherwise I won't be there (or ER).

Sorry don't get your argument.....Rod has already stated that Hibs will not vote for Newco in the SPL, and that it's for the SFL to determine what happens to Newco, why would you punish the club you support and love? If the vote from the SFL clubs goes for Rangers in the 1st division when Hibs have no influence on this decision?

[ronaldo7]

There's not a team called Glasgow Rangers, no not one, and their never will be one:greengrin

[JohnStephens91]

There's not a team called Glasgow Rangers, no not one, and their never will be one:greengrin

There never was, they were Rangers, now they are The Rangers, so any other team can actually start themselves up as Glasgow Rangers. God help them if they do though it would be a fate worse than death.

[Hibercelona]

When are UEFA and FIFA going to step in and tell the heads of the SFA and SPL to get the **** away from Scottish football as they are corrupt and incompetent?

They wont. Because unfortunately, so are UEFA and FIFA.

[IWasThere2016]

Sorry don't get your argument.....Rod has already stated that Hibs will not vote for Newco in the SPL, and that it's for the SFL to determine what happens to Newco, why would you punish the club you support and love? If the vote from the SFL clubs goes for Rangers in the 1st division when Hibs have no influence on this decision?

That will depend where the idea came from :wink: and besides I hope the SFL sides have the sense to see the offer is a shallow bribe.

Unless the Huns are suitably and equitably punished the Scottish game will be gubbed.

[JohnStephens91]

They wont. Because unfortunately, so are UEFA and FIFA.

Alex Thomson seems to think a UEFA investigation is forthcoming. Remember Italian football was dealt with and no club was left untouched, I wait in hope.

[ronaldo7]

There never was, they were Rangers, now they are The Rangers, so any other team can actually start themselves up as Glasgow Rangers. God help them if they do though it would be a fate worse than death.

I think I said their never was a team called Glasgow Rangers:greengrin

[JohnStephens91]

I think I said their never was a team called Glasgow Rangers:greengrin

Either way, they're goosed :lolrangers:

[Part/Time Supporter]

Even by the standards of this saga, this is ****ing dynamite. One of the documents supposedly sent out by the Scottish Football League (NOT the SPL) to its clubs on Thursday was last edited by none other than Neil Doncaster.

http://kerrydalestreet.co.uk/single/?p=11558516&t=8700235

This has to be a resigning matter.

[JohnStephens91]

Even by the standards of this saga, this is ****ing dynamite. One of the documents supposedly sent out by the Scottish Football League (NOT the SPL) to its clubs on Thursday was last edited by none other than Neil Doncaster.

http://kerrydalestreet.co.uk/single/?p=11558516&t=8700235

This has to be a resigning matter.

I want him to go, but why is it dated for the 4th of April?

[jgl07]

Even by the standards of this saga, this is ****ing dynamite. One of the documents supposedly sent out by the Scottish Football League (NOT the SPL) to its clubs on Thursday was last edited by none other than Neil Doncaster.

http://kerrydalestreet.co.uk/single/?p=11558516&t=8700235

This has to be a resigning matter.

It is not conclusive however.

Someone in the SFL could have bought an old computer off Doncaster and forgotten to change the properties.?

Well I have heard that excuse before!

[JohnStephens91]

It is not conclusive however.

Someone in the SFL could have bought an old computer off Doncaster and forgotten to change the properties.?

Well I have heard that excuse before!

Maybe you are Doncaster and he has paid for your .net account? :cb Mystery solved :wink:

[jgl07]

Maybe you are Doncaster and he has paid for your .net account? :cb Mystery solved :wink:

Drat, how did you find that out!

[JohnStephens91]

Drat, how did you find that out!

Tam McCourt gave me the scoop

[joe breezy]

I want him to go, but why is it dated for the 4th of April?

Sometimes when I've written a word or PowerPoint I've used an existing doc and saved it as something else - on Taft case the 'created date' will show as an earlier date to my modification.

Neil Doncaster must resign

[joe breezy]

Celtic & Rangers - just the same?

Lots of people going on here about Rangers and Celtic being the same. I've read hundreds of posts by various Celtic fans that suggest otherwise the past couple of months, the last 2 paragraphs here being an example #justsayin


ROCCOSFATDA
30 Jun 2012, 11:43 PM
JamesM
30 Jun 2012, 11:37 PM
ROCCOSFATDA
30 Jun 2012, 11:32 PM

Quoting limited to 3 levels deep
The significance is that this was supposedly a document sent by the Scottish Football League to its members (1st, 2nd and 3rd division clubs), suggesting how they should handle the "Rangers situation". It appears to have been edited by Neil Doncaster, who is the chief executive of the Scottish Premier League and therefore should have nothing to do whatsoever with an SFL document. It's effing dynamite. Assuming the MSM don't brush it under the carpet it's a resigning matter.

..................Thanks James WoW the plot gets deeper every day now the governing body's could have saved themselves a lot of trouble by throwing the huns out of Scottish football in the first place instead of going to extraordinary and corrupt lengths to keep them going

Really the plot doesn't get any deeper. The huns are dead. The Sevco will do extremely well to put a team on the park come August 4th, and the authorities will do even better to let enable it.

There are about 4 weeks til the start of the Scottish season. My guess is that Green's Sevco, assuming it has a team, will be in administration by the end of the year.

Fretting about Ogilvie still being head of the SFA is like fretting about a dead corpse ridden with maggots still having its left ring finger intact. Every one of these guys are charlatans and crooks. We have known this for a long time. However, unlike previously, the fundamental focus of their chicanery is now deid.

The only consideration for me is Celtic's position in a post "old Firm" world. If losing cups and leagues to what have been historically smaller teams is a result of this new era of Scottish football, then I am only too happy for it to be so. Unlike the huns, Celtic have never announced or promoted themselves as some infallible institution of Scottish society. I think that our supporters in the main realise that life is about both winning and losing, and each have their benefits.

If the non-existence of the huns means a smaller budget for Celtic, 30,000 crowds but a more competitive league (and hopefully under good governance a higher standard of football) then that is fine by me. In fact, I look forward to it
Edited by nakasgirl, Today, 12:14 AM.

[joe breezy]

That Doncaster edited document transpires to be an accompanying document rather than the one that's full if threats so not so explosive after all

"for the record this is the document in question:

http://www.clydefc.co.uk/news/uploads/governance_structures_and_voting_1.doc

it's not the more widely publicised one that we've all seen

and it would kind of make more sense for Doncaster's paws to be on it as it seems to have come from the SPL anyway"

[Jim44]

Rangers find fresh support from Ron Scott of the Sunday Post. Taken from FF but presumably the actual article.


Re: Ron Scott - Sunday Post Football Editorial (a must read!)
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jan Fabel
Sums upthe situation almost perfectly.

Ron Scott – The Voice of Experience – Sunday Post - July1 2012

"The way the Scottish football authorities have allowed the Rangers scenario to unravel is nothing short of disgraceful.

The whole sorry episode should have been nipped in the bud.

Instead we're now in the situation where it's not just the survival ofRanges that's at stake, but the Scottish game itself.

As the fans and clubs become hysterical about how the Light Blues should be punished, it's worth remembering the Ibrox club has done nothing unlawful.

Employment Benefit Trusts are legal. That's why HMRC wants to close this particular loophole.
Informed sources suggest, at worst, Rangers will receive fine, and there appears no danger of having to pay back-tax on the system Sir David Murray implemented.

The SFA then decided to impose severe sanctions on Rangers after awakening to the fact that Craig Whyte was not a fit and proper person to own the club.
Yet the independent Ibrox board set up to look into Whyte while he was still negotiating with Murray decided themselves that [he] wasn't fit and proper to own the club.
They told the SFA that at least fifteen months ago,but the powers-that-be decided in their wisdom to take no action at that time.
Now the situation is like a runaway train full of explosives that's about to be derailed and blow up the whole of Scottish football.
Let's face the obvious here. Not even Celtc will be able to sustain their present level for long without Rangers.
So if they end up having to make cuts, how is the rest of Scottish football going to survive?
There are already whispers that other SPL clubs will be forced into administration.
There is even talk of part-time football at the highest level, never mind the First Division.
It's all very well to bleat on about sporting integrity. But why risk the entire future of Scottish football especially when the facts clearly show Rangers have done nothing wrong.
At the end of the day, the main villan of the piece remains Whyte, with Murray a close second.
It's totally wrong to run the risk of losing Rangers altogether and sending down the entire game with them.
It is especially wrong when the facts show there is absolutely no need for the authoeities to treat Rangers the way they appear hell-bent on doing."
Thank You Ron Scott.

[grunt]

Rangers Tax-Case‏@rangerstaxcaseRon Scott's Sunday Post article is ill-informed rubbish that reads like it used FollowFollow as its only research resource

[joe breezy]

Not only that but The Independent of all people are giving a platform to Hun fanzine writers...

http://www.independent.co.uk/sport/football/scottish/the-rangers-quiz-are-you-genned-up-on-gers-plight-7901839.html?afid=af

[Part/Time Supporter]

Rangers find fresh support from Ron Scott of the Sunday Post.

I think we can safely ignore someone who thinks that Hibs signing some players on loan is more of a breach of sporting integrity than anything Rangers have done in the last 15 years.

No, really, he wrote that on the day after the cup final (because Petrie had made sporting integrity remarks in the week before).

[lapsedhibee]

Not only that but The Independent of all people are giving a platform to Hun fanzine writers...

http://www.independent.co.uk/sport/football/scottish/the-rangers-quiz-are-you-genned-up-on-gers-plight-7901839.html?afid=af

Just Victor Meldrew having a bit of a chortle on a Sunday morning. Not in the same league as the execrable piece in the Sunday Post.

[BarneyK]

"The A ordinary shares and B ordinary shares would have different class voting rights. As at present, proposals for amendments to the Articles of Association of the Company and to Section C of the Rules (financial and commercial matters) as well as other strategic matters, which are defined as Qualified Resolutions, would require to be supported by not less than 11 clubs holding A ordinary shares."

So this big change we are to get excited about in the voting rights would be...no change at all? One season out the top flight, they hope, and then Sevco, when promoted, can swap their one B share for the relegated club's A share and we're back to their nice wee cosy self preservation pact with Celtc? I must be reading that wrong...

[Caversham Green]

Rangers find fresh support from Ron Scott of the Sunday Post. Taken from FF but presumably the actual article.


Re: Ron Scott - Sunday Post Football Editorial (a must read!)
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jan Fabel
Sums upthe situation almost perfectly.

Ron Scott – The Voice of Experience – Sunday Post - July1 2012

"The way the Scottish football authorities have allowed the Rangers scenario to unravel is nothing short of disgraceful.

The whole sorry episode should have been nipped in the bud.

Instead we're now in the situation where it's not just the survival ofRanges that's at stake, but the Scottish game itself.

As the fans and clubs become hysterical about how the Light Blues should be punished, it's worth remembering the Ibrox club has done nothing unlawful.

Employment Benefit Trusts are legal. That's why HMRC wants to close this particular loophole.
Informed sources suggest, at worst, Rangers will receive fine, and there appears no danger of having to pay back-tax on the system Sir David Murray implemented.

The SFA then decided to impose severe sanctions on Rangers after awakening to the fact that Craig Whyte was not a fit and proper person to own the club.
Yet the independent Ibrox board set up to look into Whyte while he was still negotiating with Murray decided themselves that [he] wasn't fit and proper to own the club.
They told the SFA that at least fifteen months ago,but the powers-that-be decided in their wisdom to take no action at that time.
Now the situation is like a runaway train full of explosives that's about to be derailed and blow up the whole of Scottish football.
Let's face the obvious here. Not even Celtc will be able to sustain their present level for long without Rangers.
So if they end up having to make cuts, how is the rest of Scottish football going to survive?
There are already whispers that other SPL clubs will be forced into administration.
There is even talk of part-time football at the highest level, never mind the First Division.
It's all very well to bleat on about sporting integrity. But why risk the entire future of Scottish football especially when the facts clearly show Rangers have done nothing wrong.
At the end of the day, the main villan of the piece remains Whyte, with Murray a close second.
It's totally wrong to run the risk of losing Rangers altogether and sending down the entire game with them.
It is especially wrong when the facts show there is absolutely no need for the authoeities to treat Rangers the way they appear hell-bent on doing."
Thank You Ron Scott.

Dear oh dear - where do you start.

If ever there was an endorsement for that saying about keeping quiet and letting the world think you're a fool....

[joe breezy]

Just Victor Meldrew having a bit of a chortle on a Sunday morning. Not in the same league as the execrable piece in the Sunday Post.

I expect it in the Sunday Post though...not the Independent

There should be no further debate - they're dead - SFL application should be rejected and Spartans get into Division 3

I've been enjoying it but a bit bored of it now - looking forward to the conclusion of them playing nowhere next season them maybe Division 3 next season

[Onion]

Yeah I must admit I was hoping the clubs would keep schtum until the vote...that way we would see where celtc's loyalties lie. I fear they will say that the other clubs have decided, and as such no need for a vote anymore.
I have no doubt celtc supporters will say NO, but I think celtc's board would say yes, but fear the backlash of their support.
Desperately hope they all vote and we see the breakdown.

Not a chance of this happening now. Why would any club openly vote YES when it would have no impact on the result (Newco rejected) but would infuriate 95% of their fans and probably lose them ££££ in gate receipts, boycotts, protests ?? Their shareholders would sue them for gross incompetence.

IMHO they will just have show of hands, count them and then reject the resolution. No names, no pack-drill :wink:

[lapsedhibee]

I expect it in the Sunday Post though...not the Independent


True. Not sure that any UK broadsheet has looked in to the Huns fiasco properly yet, so maybe the Indie's jocular piece is the start of something.

Still shocked to reflect that if it wasn't for the intervention of a single English journo, who just happened to be interested in fitba (well the barcodes anyway), none of this trauma would have come to any of our attentions. Rangers would still be in business, in the SPL, churning out their PR through our utterly ****ty MSM.

[Onion]

Having given this some thought, it wouldn't surprise me if it emerged that the author of the document was Mr Charles Green.

I got the impression from the news reports that it was circulated by the SFL, but no-one seems to have actually put their name to it and that is very unusual - normally there would be a covering letter or foreword signed by the president/CEO/secretary or someone. It also doesn't read like a document produced by a committee like the SFL or other boards, nor does it look like it was produced by a solicitor like Doncaster or an accountant like Petrie.

What it reads like is a prospectus for a dodgy invesment 'opportunity' and I believe that is Green's stock in trade. He has also shown complete contempt towards the intelligence of anyone that isn't wearing his socks and this document is basically an insult to the reader's intelligence. Green also appears to be very, very stupid and appears to think he can gat away with blatant lies.

If it wasn't actually sent out by Charley, I'm becoming convinced that he was the author.

Interesting take on it:agree:. You can see a situation where over the last week or so it's become clear that the SPL are going to vote NO, so Doncaster/Green/SFL get together and Green says "look lads, would it help if I drafted up some rough bullet points on the reasons for Sevco going straight into Div 1?". Doncaster, "sounds like a plan, go for it".

When the whole thing has back-fired, you can see why no one wants to take responsibility for the document. You just couldn't admit that someone else had produced it !

[Eyrie]

There is, of course, the possibility that the alleged meeting didn't take place.

True, but then it would a simple matter for Hibs to issue a statement to that effect. The ongoing silence points in the opposite direction.

[johnbc70]

The Sunday Post? My granny used to read that, if she was alive today she would be 120. Says it all.

[Saorsa]

True, but then it would a simple matter for Hibs to issue a statement to that effect. The ongoing silence points in the opposite direction.Indeed, the silence after that disgraceful document has been in the open as long as it has IMO means somebody sure has something tae hide.

I see three possibilities

Somebody out with the SPL has done it (green maybe?) without their permission in which case why have the SPL said nothing? Unless of course they are secretly happy it's been done which would be shameful.

Somebody withing the SPL has done it (doncaster maybe?) without the permission of the member clubs. In which case why have none of the clubs who claimed sporting integrity came out and said anything and brought whoever it was tae book? again shameful and giving rise tae suspicion.

The SPL board and member clubs are totally complicit in the issuing of the document in which case they are liars trying tae con their fans in tae believing they are trying tae dae the right thing so they will pay up for tickets while doing dirty deals under the table. Again shameful and the worst of the lot and their continued silence does them nae favours.

Somebody is at it, or they're all at it.

[grunt]

Andrew Smith in the Scotsman on Sunday

http://www.scotsman.com/sport/football/top-football-stories/rangers-newco-after-spl-fans-forced-rejection-sfl-hears-same-mesage-1-2386605


The “lucrative” package of reconstruction proposals – with a new Rangers thrown in – was cooked up by SFA chief executive Stewart Regan, vice-president Rod Petrie, SPL chief executive Neil Doncaster and SFL chief executive David Longmuir.

[BEEJ]

"The A ordinary shares and B ordinary shares would have different class voting rights. As at present, proposals for amendments to the Articles of Association of the Company and to Section C of the Rules (financial and commercial matters) as well as other strategic matters, which are defined as Qualified Resolutions, would require to be supported by not less than 11 clubs holding A ordinary shares."

So this big change we are to get excited about in the voting rights would be...no change at all? One season out the top flight, they hope, and then Sevco, when promoted, can swap their one B share for the relegated club's A share and we're back to their nice wee cosy self preservation pact with Celtc? I must be reading that wrong...
:agree: Exactly.

And how can the recommended structure set out in that appendix be something that only the SFL clubs can decide upon? Unless the SPL clubs have already approved it?

[Saorsa]

Andrew Smith in the Scotsman on Sunday

http://www.scotsman.com/sport/football/top-football-stories/rangers-newco-after-spl-fans-forced-rejection-sfl-hears-same-mesage-1-2386605Well if Petrie is involved he can GTF, his position at the SFA is clearly incompatible with his position at Hibs and the wishes of the supporters of that club.

And the rest of them can GTF as well, nae wonder naebody has said anything, whae'd want tae own up tae piece of disgusting garbage. Twisted *******s

[joe breezy]

Andrew Smith in the Scotsman on Sunday

http://www.scotsman.com/sport/football/top-football-stories/rangers-newco-after-spl-fans-forced-rejection-sfl-hears-same-mesage-1-2386605

If this is true Petrie's position at Easter Road is untenable - absolutely, 100% he has to resign

Need more proof perhaps but if it's not true he can easily categorically deny it, not a difficult thing to do

[grunt]

More in the same article


Gone is any pretence that the SPL clubs’ “no to newco” was a principled stand, borne out of listening to their supporters. The fact is the First Division proposal for the new Rangers was sold as a cert to them weeks ago, making these chairman seem even more scheming and dubious than if they had came out and said “look, it is wrong but we need Sky television and any Rangers in the SPL to guarantee we get it”. The latest turn of events is particularly embarrassing for Hibernian chairman Petrie. It has been reported he met new Rangers owner Charles Green to discuss plans to ease Rangers back into the First Division, despite his claim that “sporting integrity was beyond purchase”.

[Bostonhibby]

Andrew Smith in the Scotsman on Sunday

http://www.scotsman.com/sport/football/top-football-stories/rangers-newco-after-spl-fans-forced-rejection-sfl-hears-same-mesage-1-2386605

Simply terrible if this has Rod's hand in it, we really need a ststement from the club about it as its simply out of touch with what the fans want. I accept his duties to the club as a director extend to the financial but its not that simple if he alienates enough fans it will hit Hibs in the pocket too.

Me - I don't want the stigma of somehow being complicit in a deal that the rest of the non hun fans rightly don't like.

[BEEJ]

Andrew Smith in the Scotsman on Sunday

http://www.scotsman.com/sport/football/top-football-stories/rangers-newco-after-spl-fans-forced-rejection-sfl-hears-same-mesage-1-2386605


Clearly, the powerbrokers have misjudged the public mood again. There is every chance that the raft of proposals, which include play-offs to the SPL, £1 million being filtered through the three tiers of the SFL, merger of the two league bodies and a pyramid system below the senior set-up, oh and Green’s Rangers starting off life just outside Scottish football’s highest level, won’t garner the necessary support. Even when the threshold figure for forcing through this “special case” scenario seems to have dropped from 23 clubs out of 30, to 16 clubs.

I hadn't picked up that the rats had also rigged the voting system in their favour? :confused:

[Emerald]

If this is true Petrie's position at Easter Road is untenable - absolutely, 100% he has to resign

Need more proof perhaps but if it's not true he can easily categorically deny it, not a difficult thing to do

100% correct :top marks

[degenerated]

If this is true Petrie's position at Easter Road is untenable - absolutely, 100% he has to resign

Need more proof perhaps but if it's not true he can easily categorically deny it, not a difficult thing to do

Yep, unless he can truthfully and categorically deny involvement in that piece of nonsense then his head, along with that of those other ********s mentioned, must roll.

[Saorsa]

Is there anybody at the top level of the game in this country that can actually lie straight in bed.

[Matty_Jack04]

Simply terrible if this has Rod's hand in it, we really need a ststement from the club about it as its simply out of touch with what the fans want. I accept his duties to the club as a director extend to the financial but its not that simple if he alienates enough fans it will hit Hibs in the pocket too.

Me - I don't want the stigma of somehow being complicit in a deal that the rest of the non hun fans rightly don't like.

still cant quite beleive its all as corrupt as its being made out ive called rod many things over the years but in no way did i ever imagine him a liar and conman like is being made out, id rather beleive that this is all blowing up in his face because he has took such a stand against rangers and its the media involving him in more rangers biased reporting to unsettle the rest of the SPL clubs and fans

BUT

the silence from Easter Road is worrying

[degenerated]

Is there anybody at the top level of the game in this country that can actually lie straight in bed.

They should have plenty of time to practice once they have all been emptied from their jobs.

[grunt]

Warning: this is from the Daily Record. Don't read it if you're squeamish or hungover.

http://www.dailyrecord.co.uk/football/spl/rangers/2012/07/01/craig-burley-column-sending-newco-ranger-to-division-three-will-kill-scottish-game-86908-23903059/


Craig Burley column: Sending newco Ranger to Division Three will KILL Scottish game

[Bostonhibby]

still cant quite beleive its all as corrupt as its being made out ive called rod many things over the years but in no way did i ever imagine him a liar and conman like is being made out, id rather beleive that this is all blowing up in his face because he has took such a stand against rangers and its the media involving him in more rangers biased reporting to unsettle the rest of the SPL clubs and fans

BUT

the silence from Easter Road is worrying

:agree: I am pro Rod, always have been, just concerned. It doesn't feel right. Still, at least I have my question for the next AGM!

[Saorsa]

Warning: this is from the Daily Record. Don't read it if you're squeamish or hungover.

http://www.dailyrecord.co.uk/football/spl/rangers/2012/07/01/craig-burley-column-sending-newco-ranger-to-division-three-will-kill-scottish-game-86908-23903059/If I was in perfectly fine health and fit as a fiddle I wouldnae read that.

[Spike Mandela]

RP's problem is his mantra "sporting integrity is beyond purchase". If he is even so much as a co author of the proposal document to the SFL his hypocricy will haunt him for a very long time.

Like many other situations that have arose in this whole Rangers debacle, fans clamour through social media will force him in to some kind of comment to explain himself or he's finished.

[NAE NOOKIE]

I've solved the problem.

Send both Newco and Celtic to the 3rd division .... the SKY deal is for SPL matches and 4 SFL matches a season .. bobs yer uncle

[Hibercelona]

Warning: this is from the Daily Record. Don't read it if you're squeamish or hungover.

http://www.dailyrecord.co.uk/football/spl/rangers/2012/07/01/craig-burley-column-sending-newco-ranger-to-division-three-will-kill-scottish-game-86908-23903059/

I once sat through "The Thing" without looking away or blinking.

I can't bring myself to read this...

[Matty_Jack04]

Warning: this is from the Daily Record. Don't read it if you're squeamish or hungover.

http://www.dailyrecord.co.uk/football/spl/rangers/2012/07/01/craig-burley-column-sending-newco-ranger-to-division-three-will-kill-scottish-game-86908-23903059/

i dont know why i clicked on that link but 2 paragraphs nearly had me passing out

[SAUZEH]

RP - if any of this is correct then he should resign; at least a massive error of judgment, at worst deceitful. However, the smell of a **** stirring hun loving media seeking to divide and conquer hangs over the whole story. As SL is no doubt at Easter Road today it should be no problem to have the truth told through the official web site :flag:

[TrickyNicky]

There is no way Craig Burley wrote that!

Anyone who has had their teeth smashed oot thir face like he has, would know to shut up when they don't know what they're talking about!

[Leishy1995]

Does anyone know what SFL clubs have already said no the Rangers in the 1st division?

[lord bunberry]

Indeed, the silence after that disgraceful document has been in the open as long as it has IMO means somebody sure has something tae hide.

I see three possibilities

Somebody out with the SPL has done it (green maybe?) without their permission in which case why have the SPL said nothing? Unless of course they are secretly happy it's been done which would be shameful.

Somebody withing the SPL has done it (doncaster maybe?) without the permission of the member clubs. In which case why have none of the clubs who claimed sporting integrity came out and said anything and brought whoever it was tae book? again shameful and giving rise tae suspicion.

The SPL board and member clubs are totally complicit in the issuing of the document in which case they are liars trying tae con their fans in tae believing they are trying tae dae the right thing so they will pay up for tickets while doing dirty deals under the table. Again shameful and the worst of the lot and their continued silence does them nae favours.

Somebody is at it, or they're all at it.

You forgot the other possibility that a big boy did it then ran away

[At The Edge]

off the top of my head
Dunfermline, Morton, Raith Rovers, Peterhead, Clyde,
i did hear Partick Thistle but not sure if they have confirmed their no vote?

[Leishy1995]

off the top of my head
Dunfermline, Morton, Raith Rovers, Peterhead, Clyde,
i did hear Partick Thistle but not sure if they have confirmed their no vote?

I wonder what kind of vote they need to save them.

[Moulin Yarns]

Add Falkirk to the list, and they need 22 SFL clubs to approve their application.

[Leishy1995]

So only 2 more say no and they are done?

[ginger_rice]

Stirling Albion to consult trust members.

[Saorsa]

You forgot the other possibility that a big boy did it then ran awayHow remiss of me, will try tae dae better next time :wink:

[Moulin Yarns]

http://www.scotsman.com/sport/football/sfl-division-one/rangers-newco-where-the-sfl-clubs-stand-1-2376173

http://www.scotsman.com/sport/rangers-newco-even-third-division-will-object-to-club-s-presence-1-2382349

:thumbsup:

[Seveno]

The increasing alacrity with which some people either cry that they are finished with football or demand the resignation of our Chairman is staggering beyond belief. Even more so when the statements are based on reports in a media that is regularly condemned even more vehemently.

Can we just change the name of this website to kneejerk.com ?

[Twa Cairpets]

It must not be about satisfying the wishes of too many fans who are here today and gone tomorrow. Sadly, though, I do think the lunatics have taken over the asylum.

The fans are here today gone tomorrow? WTF? Beyond contempt.

[Pete]

I hadn't picked up that the rats had also rigged the voting system in their favour? :confused:

If its true that this 75% is written somewhere and its now been changed to suit newco and this suddenly necessary reconstruction I will be sick. There's absolutely no end to the corruption!

[SteveHFC]

SPL clubs are worried that Sky will cancel their five-year TV deal worth £80m if the top flight went without a Rangers team for more than a season. (Sunday Times)

Good :aok:

[Hibercelona]

http://www.scotsman.com/sport/football/sfl-division-one/rangers-newco-where-the-sfl-clubs-stand-1-2376173

http://www.scotsman.com/sport/rangers-newco-even-third-division-will-object-to-club-s-presence-1-2382349

:thumbsup:

Good to see where the Fife clubs stand. :aok:

Good ol' Fifers. :greengrin

[SPL Fans Survey]

Template of next survey
When I first had the idea for the site it was always with League reconstruction in mind, however when the Rangers story broke I put it on the back burner.

Now with it being discussed I have done some work on the idea and have attached a sneak preview based on my idea's.

Folow link to first draft: http://cl.ly/2k1q1X1B272V3U3S2l3M

The intention was to invite feedback and look to how we could structure questions relating to it as a survey, this is a a first draft.

Basically I have based it on finishing positions in Scottish leagues last season.

The idea is a 30 match league season preceded by the opening stages of the League cup in a group format similar to the old days.

However on this occasion seed teams into 8 pots based on their finish in league the previous season and the top seeds are drawn with one in each group.

Second & subsequent seeds are then placed into groups on a regional basis to create interest through derby matches which in turn will hopefully lead to increased media & sponsorship interest with hopefully bigger gates.

Doing this creates a 40 game season then knockout stages & Scottish cup ties on top.

We are looking for feedback positive or negative with suggestions on how to structure it as a survey.

Feel free to email us or post in here.

email: info@splsurvey.co.uk

Bill & Mark

[Hibercelona]

SPL clubs are worried that Sky will cancel their five-year TV deal worth £80m if the top flight went without a Rangers team for more than a season. (Sunday Times)

Good :aok:

Great news indeed. :agree:

The game has some hope yet.

[Orourke73]

The fans are here today gone tomorrow? WTF? Beyond contempt.

What should it be about then Craig? People that have never put a penny into Scottish football in their lives, like you. C*ck!

[Pete]

The increasing alacrity with which some people either cry that they are finished with football or demand the resignation of our Chairman is staggering beyond belief. Even more so when the statements are based on reports in a media that is regularly condemned even more vehemently.

Can we just change the name of this website to kneejerk.com ?

I agree about people jumping the gun about Petrie. He might well hold a position of power but let's wait until there's actual proof he had a hand in the propaganda piece.

If the media aren't pro-rangers they still like looking for sensational headlines and interesting twists...which sometimes come from nothing more than an educated punt!

Let's wait and see.

[LancsHibs]

Warning: this is from the Daily Record. Don't read it if you're squeamish or hungover.

http://www.dailyrecord.co.uk/football/spl/rangers/2012/07/01/craig-burley-column-sending-newco-ranger-to-division-three-will-kill-scottish-game-86908-23903059/

What an absolute prick of a man:grr: These people just don't get it! They just can't see past the ££££ and their love for the OF

[Saorsa]

I agree about people jumping the gun about Petrie. He might well hold a position of power but let's wait until there's actual proof he had a hand in the propaganda piece.

If the media aren't pro-rangers they still like looking for sensational headlines and interesting twists...which sometimes come from nothing more than an educated punt!

Let's wait and see.The document exists, somebody or some group of people compiled it. Any of the people refusing tae deny their involvement in it can surely expect such allegations. It would be very easy for Petrie or anybody else tae put a stop tae any allegations in their direction by coming out denying their involvement and by speaking out against it. The fact that neither Petrie nor anybody else who has been fingered has done so can only lead tae increased suspicion and further allegation of their involvement.

[Eyrie]

So far the public statements all indicate a desire to stamp on Sevco 5088 sneaking into Division One rather than stand on it.

:top marks for those clubs.

[SteveHFC]

Electronic Tims ‏@ETimsNet
SoS A Smith names @StewartRegan Rod Petrie of HIbs, Neil Doncaster & David Longmuir as men behind "threats" to SFL clubs & inc of Newco.

[whiskyhibby]

I've solved the problem.

Send both Newco and Celtic to the 3rd division .... the SKY deal is for SPL matches and 4 SFL matches a season .. bobs yer uncle

:)))

[BEEJ]

Add Falkirk to the list, and they need 22 SFL clubs to approve their application.
Looks like that might not be the case, as was pointed out by Andrew Smith in today's SoS:


Clearly, the powerbrokers have misjudged the public mood again. There is every chance that the raft of proposals, which include play-offs to the SPL, £1 million being filtered through the three tiers of the SFL, merger of the two league bodies and a pyramid system below the senior set-up, oh and Green’s Rangers starting off life just outside Scottish football’s highest level, won’t garner the necessary support. Even when the threshold figure for forcing through this “special case” scenario seems to have dropped from 23 clubs out of 30, to 16 clubs.

http://www.scotsman.com/sport/football/top-football-stories/rangers-newco-after-spl-fans-forced-rejection-sfl-hears-same-mesage-1-2386605

Incredible, if this is the case.

[Leishy1995]

I still don't see many wanting to let them in. I hope they get booted down. They've been punished and now they're starting over

[Eyrie]

I'm not in favour of adding another six clubs to the existing forty one, plus the vacancy created by the demise of the Huns which will be filled by Sevco 5088.

The simplest solution would be to have two leagues of twenty, two up/two down automatically and a play off between third bottom and third/fourth/fifth in Division Two. There would then be a regional structure below this, and two of the Third Division Clubs would have to be relegated to the regional leagues at the start.

[ScottB]

Electronic Tims ‏@ETimsNet
SoS A Smith names @StewartRegan Rod Petrie of HIbs, Neil Doncaster & David Longmuir as men behind "threats" to SFL clubs & inc of Newco.

Im in two minds here.

Either, this is true. Or, the media has a long history of having no love for Rod for various reasons, our lack of leaks to the press, playing hard ball with the Old Firm and presumably more recently for being the first Chairman to start making statements against a newco... Could they be trying to blacken his name? It's a possibility.

Of course his position at the SFA suggests he has to of at least seen this document before it went out, but again that could mean anything from he wrote it while twirling his moustache to him refusing to even proof read it.


A statement from the man himself is required.

[GreenPJ]

I can understand why some SPL clubs want to go down the route of maintaining the TV money and Div 1 will help that happen. Am guessing Dundee Utd, Kilmarnock and possibly one or two others could well follow into administration (possible liquidation) if they were to lose out on the income from TV. Should these clubs suffer from Rangers wrong doing, possibly not although how will we learn the lessons to fund our football without the same huge reliance on TV companies who do not have the interest of fans at heart.

What I struggle with is how can any governing body have any input to this proposal when there is an outstanding investigation into possible Rangers wrong doing. If they are found guilty but then created this situation where Rangers go into Div 1 then there is very limited scope for punishment as they are not then going to suspend them or demote them. Does this mean that the authorities are now not really going to follow through on their investigation and it becomes a whitewash - if that's the case I would imagine there must be scope for some sort of class action by fans to take individuals to task.

[Baba O'riley]

Beginning to believe the SFL clubs can save Scottish football. Hopefully they'll maintain their stance and vote no to newco in division 1 (would be even better if they also voted no to newco in div 3 too, but I'll settle for them starting there). Also hope that the threatened breakaway SPL2 falls flat on its face, as the revolution would hopefully see the resignation of Doncaster and Longmuir (possibly Regan too, not sure what his perceived silence actually tells us, and I've seen a few comments on here that he's not all that bad, so giving him the benefit ot the doubt for now). Petrie is an entirely different matter, and obviously from a Hibs point of view, a separate matter as to what he resigns from. But again, his silence asks more questions than gives answers.
If the SFL clubs can help us bring some integrity back to the game, I'm more than happy to head along to some SFL games to show my support. They deserve the extra cash, but not through backhanded deals of tv money or whatever else the SPL is trying to sell to them.

[pentlando]

My own views are largely correlated with what you have provided there. However IMO Scottish football doesn't have the depth for 48 league teams.

My view is that there should be two leagues of 16, two up and two down with playoffs for third spot as you have said. That would provide 3 spaces per year in Division two to be filled from the regional leagues. I think there should be three regions, Highland, West and East. The top teams in each region per season would be promoted to Division Two. Relegated teams would go down to their region based on location.

Under this scenario the League Cup would take on the Champions League format of 32 teams split into 8 groups. Teams would be seeded based on league pos and play twice, which would only add six games to the 30 league games minimum. Gate receipts would be equally shared amongst all group members. Therefore domestically, if the Scottish Cup follows the same format, a top division side would only have to play a maximum of 46 games if they reached the final of both competitions (Replays could add to this). At the moment a maximum of 48 games (minus replays again) is possible so not much variance.

[pentlando]

I understand that in my previous post there would need to be 10 teams removed from the current league setup. This would probably be the least popular thing I suggested and could be compromised with an inbetween league of some sort. Open to suggestions on that front though!!

[MyJo]

There are lots of possibilities to restructure the leagues in a way that will make scottish football unique and fresh and potentially exciting again for fans. This proposal is one that I like and have posted about doing something similar before while aligning it with a move to summer football but at the moment my personal favourite, while remaining in a winter season is something like this:

Leagues of 16, Play a round of 30 matches 1 home and 1 away.
League is split into groups of 4 based on league positions (1st to 4th, 5th to 8th, 9th to 12th and 13th to 16th) and points from previous round wiped. Mini leagues would start with the highest placed team on 3 points, 2nd on 2, 3rd on 1 and 4th on 0 and another round of 6 matches 1 home and 1 away played in each mini league giving a full 36 game season with an even number of home and away matches for each team and a few weeks in winter for a mid-season break.

at the end of the season the positions in the leagues determine who wins what:

1st - champions & CL place
2nd - CL Place
3rd - Europa League
4th - Europa League Playoff v 5th (winner of two legged match gets the europa place)

5th - Europa League Playoff v 4th (winner of two legged match gets the europa place)
6th - n/a
7th - n/a
8th - n/a

9th - n/a
10th - n/a
11th - n/a
12th - Relegation playoff v 14th (loser enters play-off tournament with 1st division sides)

13th - stay in SPL
14th - Relegation playoff v 12th (loser enters play-off tournament with 1st division sides)
15th - Auto relegated
16th - Auto relegated

1st division would be the same structure but top 2 earn promotion, 3rd 4th and 5th enter play-off tournament

4 teams in play-off tournament play each other once at neutral venues over 1 week with winners getting place in the SPL.

[Onion]

Warning: this is from the Daily Record. Don't read it if you're squeamish or hungover.

http://www.dailyrecord.co.uk/football/spl/rangers/2012/07/01/craig-burley-column-sending-newco-ranger-to-division-three-will-kill-scottish-game-86908-23903059/

This is a cracking line...

"It must not be about satisfying the wishes of too many fans who are here today and gone tomorrow."

The ONLY constant IS the fans, all of whom have been ignored for far too long. Burley is just another cheating apologist who has no concept of the crimes that the Huns have committed - only MONEY MONEY MONEY. You really have to wonder about the MORALS of Burley and his like.

[Onion]

Im in two minds here.

Either, this is true. Or, the media has a long history of having no love for Rod for various reasons, our lack of leaks to the press, playing hard ball with the Old Firm and presumably more recently for being the first Chairman to start making statements against a newco... Could they be trying to blacken his name? It's a possibility.

Of course his position at the SFA suggests he has to of at least seen this document before it went out, but again that could mean anything from he wrote it while twirling his moustache to him refusing to even proof read it.


A statement from the man himself is required.

I don't doubt that Petrie saw the SFL document before it went out, and before he made his latest statement on the Hibs website. Which makes his choice of words in that statement all the more worrying - suggesting that it was all in the hands of some other people and nothing to do with Hibs or him any more. That's just patently not true (a lie in other words). He has a lot of explaining to do, and might have to fall on his sword if he is a driver behind the SFL doc.

[pentlando]

There are lots of possibilities to restructure the leagues in a way that will make scottish football unique and fresh and potentially exciting again for fans. This proposal is one that I like and have posted about doing something similar before while aligning it with a move to summer football but at the moment my personal favourite, while remaining in a winter season is something like this:

Leagues of 16, Play a round of 30 matches 1 home and 1 away.
League is split into groups of 4 based on league positions (1st to 4th, 5th to 8th, 9th to 12th and 13th to 16th) and points from previous round wiped. Mini leagues would start with the highest placed team on 3 points, 2nd on 2, 3rd on 1 and 4th on 0 and another round of 6 matches 1 home and 1 away played in each mini league giving a full 36 game season with an even number of home and away matches for each team and a few weeks in winter for a mid-season break.

at the end of the season the positions in the leagues determine who wins what:

1st - champions & CL place
2nd - CL Place
3rd - Europa League
4th - Europa League Playoff v 5th (winner of two legged match gets the europa place)

5th - Europa League Playoff v 4th (winner of two legged match gets the europa place)
6th - n/a
7th - n/a
8th - n/a

9th - n/a
10th - n/a
11th - n/a
12th - Relegation playoff v 14th (loser enters play-off tournament with 1st division sides)

13th - stay in SPL
14th - Relegation playoff v 12th (loser enters play-off tournament with 1st division sides)
15th - Auto relegated
16th - Auto relegated

1st division would be the same structure but top 2 earn promotion, 3rd 4th and 5th enter play-off tournament

4 teams in play-off tournament play each other once at neutral venues over 1 week with winners getting place in the SPL.

I'm a fan of the 16 size league but surely competition in the middle 1/3rd of the season could be hampered if point gaps begin to develop. If a team gets too far behind the 'mini league' in front then there is less incentive to pick up points as they are all but wiped at the 30 game stage. There is also the issue of the team finishing 13th staying in SPL and team that finishes 12th having a Relegation Playoff. I understand this is to keep excitement for teams 9th to 12th but there surely has to be more incentive to finish 12th rather than 13th?

[Seveno]

The document exists, somebody or some group of people compiled it. Any of the people refusing tae deny their involvement in it can surely expect such allegations. It would be very easy for Petrie or anybody else tae put a stop tae any allegations in their direction by coming out denying their involvement and by speaking out against it. The fact that neither Petrie nor anybody else who has been fingered has done so can only lead tae increased suspicion and further allegation of their involvement.

It is a complex world and sometimes things are just not quite that easy. However, I see that you believe in the concept of guilty unless proved innocent.

[Baldy Foghorn]

Warning: this is from the Daily Record. Don't read it if you're squeamish or hungover.

http://www.dailyrecord.co.uk/football/spl/rangers/2012/07/01/craig-burley-column-sending-newco-ranger-to-division-three-will-kill-scottish-game-86908-23903059/

Burley is a thicko, and this article inforces that....He just does not get it at all.....Rangers are no more, and have to apply for status....The paragraph about the fans is laughable and stupid....Prize plum Burley.....

[Seveno]

I don't doubt that Petrie saw the SFL document before it went out, and before he made his latest statement on the Hibs website. Which makes his choice of words in that statement all the more worrying - suggesting that it was all in the hands of some other people and nothing to do with Hibs or him any more. That's just patently not true (a lie in other words). He has a lot of explaining to do, and might have to fall on his sword if he is a driver behind the SFL doc.

He said that it was now up to the SFL clubs to decide. Where is the lie in that ?

[Saorsa]

It is a complex world and sometimes things are just not quite that easy. However, I see that you believe in the concept of guilty unless proved innocent.I believe that people who have nothing tae hide should have nae fear of speaking out.


He said that it was now up to the SFL clubs to decide. Where is the lie in that ?Is that up tae the SFL clubs tae decide of their ain own volition or is it up tae the SFL clubs tae decide with bribes and threats in a document put before them? (by somebody or some group)

[SMAXXA]

Burley is a thicko, and this article inforces that....He just does not get it at all.....Rangers are no more, and have to apply for status....The paragraph about the fans is laughable and stupid....Prize plum Burley.....

What a prize plum indeed, I honestly can't believe some of the comments in that article. He slates a couple of players that have left and goes on to slate the spl chairmen and fans aswell.

Idiot of the highest order.

[blackpoolhibs]

What a prize plum indeed, I honestly can't believe some of the comments in that article. He slates a couple of players that have left and goes on to slate the spl chairmen and fans aswell.

Idiot of the highest order.

He is a dick, cant wait to slag everything about Scottish football when commentating, as if he was some superstar when he played?

He was another greedy twat too, when taking the Dundee money way back when they were throwing it about like confetti.

I agree, he's not got the ability to write something like this, even when its that poor.

[Parfect]

http://www.facebook.com/groups/317152558377256/

Over 300 members in the first day - all welcome :-)

[lord bunberry]

He is a dick, cant wait to slag everything about Scottish football when commentating, as if he was some superstar when he played?

He was another greedy twat too, when taking the Dundee money way back when they were throwing it about like confetti.

I agree, he's not got the ability to write something like this, even when its that poor.

His judgement wasnt great when he went to dundee either iirc he played one game against hibs got sent of in the first half then got made redundent on the monday morning the man is a tit who doesnt have a clue whats going on

[Saorsa]

http://www.facebook.com/groups/317152558377256/

Over 300 members in the first day - all welcome :-)afraid I dinnae use facebook but keep up the good work whatever it is :thumbsup:

[leggeto]

will rangers get into the 3rd div or is that no a bit unfair on the junior,senior,lower league teams who have been waiting to get in for years:confused:

[Saorsa]

will rangers get into the 3rd div or is that no a bit unfair on the junior,senior,lower league teams who have been waiting to get in for years:confused:They should certainly be down there applying along with those clubs that's for sure

[21.05.2016]

They should certainly be down there applying along with those clubs that's for sure

Agreed 100%

The 3rd division clubs get a vote too yea?

[alexedwards]

If its true that this 75% is written somewhere and its now been changed to suit newco and this suddenly necessary reconstruction I will be sick. There's absolutely no end to the corruption!

You would be right. I heard the SFL will need to pull in independent lawyers to identify their rules and regulations - this has all the makings of corruption.
What? - a league that does not know it owns rules? :rules:

[alexedwards]

He said that it was now up to the SFL clubs to decide. Where is the lie in that ?

Sometimes it's what you're not saying that lets everyone know if you are being truthful or not - the statement's a shocker - the guy's a liar
just like Doncaster, Regan, etc. He knew and he sold Hibs fans up the river - someone else on here said they did not believe he could lie -
do me a favour FFS - if the SFA had anything to do with this he's in it up to his neck - he's a:bandit:.

[Bostonhibby]

SPL clubs are worried that Sky will cancel their five-year TV deal worth £80m if the top flight went without a Rangers team for more than a season. (Sunday Times)

Good :aok:

:agree: Once the non Hun fans have sorted Rangers out surely its possible to then get an effective campaign going to cancel Sky subscriptions in response? You never know this might make them think about it. I'd certainly cancel mine.

[NAE NOOKIE]

will rangers get into the 3rd div or is that no a bit unfair on the junior,senior,lower league teams who have been waiting to get in for years:confused:

Aye ... right enough ... one things for sure, admittance to the SFL has got nothing to do with how long a club has waited to get in.

Let me think ... a handfull of clubs with seating for 200 and standing room for 2,000 more, with no prospect of ever growing their fanbase or ever having a hope of changing the demographics of Scottish football.

Lets look at some the clubs who have been admitted recently:

Annan Athetic ....... doing what ?

Peterhead .... what impact have they made ?

Inverness Caledonian Thistle .... most disappointing of all IMO ... there was a club from a town where you were guaranteed a good crowd for Scottish cup ties when it had only Highland league clubs. I thought it was brilliant when ICT joined the league .. heres a club who can be the next Dundee Utd and really bring something to the table was my thinking.

Instead of that they have a rubbish stadium and home crowds of about 4,000.

So lets be realistic .... newco current buns should be a shoe in for SFL membership. Its one thing cutting off your nose to spite you face. Its quite another cutting off your whole bloody head.

Dont ya think ?

[Viva_Palmeiras]

It was suggested on BBC Sportsound this afternoon that Lawell must have been hoping that all the other SPL clubs would buckle and allow RFC back into the SPL while Celtic meantime could appease their own fans by voting 'No'.

That scenario has been well and truly blown out of the water by the intervention of non-OF supporters and their clubs responding accordingly.

Moreover change in the SPL voting system and income distribution now looks odds on as Club 12 will be likely to vote with the non-OF 10 to give an 11-1 majority on any new proposals to that end.

Celtic FC are now therefore in a bit of a quandary.

Celtc abstain simples!
Qveastion next!

[Part/Time Supporter]

With friends like this, who needs enemies?

Giovanni di Stefano writes to UEFA demanding that Rangers newco should be admitted to SPL. (http://www.studiolegaleinternazionale.com/blogHome2.php)

:greengrin

[blackpoolhibs]

Aye ... right enough ... one things for sure, admittance to the SFL has got nothing to do with how long a club has waited to get in.

Let me think ... a handfull of clubs with seating for 200 and standing room for 2,000 more, with no prospect of ever growing their fanbase or ever having a hope of changing the demographics of Scottish football.

Lets look at some the clubs who have been admitted recently:

Annan Athetic ....... doing what ?

Peterhead .... what impact have they made ?

Inverness Caledonian Thistle .... most disappointing of all IMO ... there was a club from a town where you were guaranteed a good crowd for Scottish cup ties when it had only Highland league clubs. I thought it was brilliant when ICT joined the league .. heres a club who can be the next Dundee Utd and really bring something to the table was my thinking.

Instead of that they have a rubbish stadium and home crowds of about 4,000.

So lets be realistic .... newco current buns should be a shoe in for SFL membership. Its one thing cutting off your nose to spite you face. Its quite another cutting off your whole bloody head.

Dont ya think ?

No i dont think, would the same rules apply if we were talking about Hibs?

[Twa Cairpets]

Aye ... right enough ... one things for sure, admittance to the SFL has got nothing to do with how long a club has waited to get in.

Let me think ... a handfull of clubs with seating for 200 and standing room for 2,000 more, with no prospect of ever growing their fanbase or ever having a hope of changing the demographics of Scottish football.

Lets look at some the clubs who have been admitted recently:
Peterhead .... what impact have they made ?

Inverness Caledonian Thistle .... most disappointing of all IMO ... there was a club from a town where you were guaranteed a good crowd for Scottish cup ties when it had only Highland
Annan Athetic ....... doing what ?

league clubs. I thought it was brilliant when ICT joined the league .. heres a club who can be the next Dundee Utd and really bring something to the table was my thinking.

Instead of that they have a rubbish stadium and home crowds of about 4,000.

So lets be realistic .... newco current buns should be a shoe in for SFL membership. Its one thing cutting off your nose to spite you face. Its quite another cutting off your whole bloody head.

Dont ya think ?


Oh I dont know. If its 4000, that's about 7% of Inverness's population. Arabs at say 7000 is 4.5%. We run at about 2.5%
But I do agree with you about huns coming into div 3. Thats the right place.

[northgreen24]

Celtc abstain simples!
Qveastion next!

yeah but an abstain is as good as a yes so will make there supporter clubs a bit foolish as they were all for boycoting all us little clubs if we did the same!!!!!!!


morals of an ally cat :cb