Generic Sevco / Rangers meltdown thread

[garlic]

Dont shoot the messenger.
Brian Kennedy back in the frame.Will offer to buy (the club) but not the stadium and look to ground share with either Killie,Motherwell or St Mirren until Green is forced to sell the Stadium as its un-used.:dunno:

[Captain Trips]

Agreed,

I will reserve judgment on Hibs at the minute. I, for one, do not believe Rod Petrie is that stupid or lying to us. In a sense he is right about it being up to the other governing bodies now to decide Sevco's fate. The SPL has said no to Newco, it is now up to the SFL to decide the next move. I am not convinced RP has had anything to do with this 'proposal' but like I said I will reserve judgment till the facts are known.

The whole thing is very murky, that proposal is shameful and if it goes through I think would rightly sound the death knell for Scottish Football. Saying that, I'm not sure it's legit as its so ridiculously unbelievable I just cant get my head round how anybody would think the fans would swallow it?

You have a point and Hibs statement must and can only be read as it is up to the SFL after 4th of July meaning the SFL do not have any such proposal over their head as you cannot say it is up to SFL but have that proposal on table.

[Skanko79]

Hibs can have good seasons, Hibs can have bad seasons. That's up to the players and manager.

This situation is of fundamental importance - it shows whether Scottish football is sport, or business. Petrie has insisted throughout that it is a sport, but now appears to be behind a stitch-up to protect business. It's appalling.

What do you think would happen to Hibs in this situation?

To be honest mate i havent given that much thought, i would much rather get behind Hibs as a team and hope they are preparing for a far better season than last season.

I couldnt give a toss about rangers or where they will be playing next season.

I'm just of the opinion that when you come on a Hibs board and all you read about is glasgow rangers its a wee bit irritating, as rangers are. Dont get me worng, i know as well as a Hibs forum we can all discuss all forms of football but i just think going to the extent of emailing the board when im sure they have far more important issues like us improving as a team to deal with is, in my opinion, just a wee bit over the top.

[Skanko79]

If 'highest level' means a corrupt, deeply sloping playing field with 10 diddy clubs (their words) at the very bottom, you can stuff it. My fear is that there are quite a few with your attitude.


hate to say it mate but i reckon the majority have my attitude. like it or not. the 20-25 folk on here who constantly harp on about it to the point they are emailing the board certainly are not the voice of the Hibs support.

Dont get me wrong, im not doubting your passion for the club but lets get on with just supporting the club. instead of worrying about rangers.

[Part/Time Supporter]

Agreed,

I will reserve judgment on Hibs at the minute. I, for one, do not believe Rod Petrie is that stupid or lying to us. In a sense he is right about it being up to the other governing bodies now to decide Sevco's fate. The SPL has said no to Newco, it is now up to the SFL to decide the next move. I am not convinced RP has had anything to do with this 'proposal' but like I said I will reserve judgment till the facts are known.

The whole thing is very murky, that proposal is shameful and if it goes through I think would rightly sound the death knell for Scottish Football. Saying that, I'm not sure it's legit as its so ridiculously unbelievable I just cant get my head round how anybody would think the fans would swallow it?

The proposal is ridiculous enough to believe that it's been issued with the intention of it being rejected.

[Part/Time Supporter]

hate to say it mate but i reckon the majority have my attitude. like it or not. the 20-25 folk on here who constantly harp on about it to the point they are emailing the board certainly are not the voice of the Hibs support.

Dont get me wrong, im not doubting your passion for the club but lets get on with just supporting the club. instead of worrying about rangers.

Even if you're right, Hibs can't afford to piss off a substantial minority of their support.

[Skanko79]

Even if you're right, Hibs can't afford to piss off a substantial minority of their support.

I do agree with you, but what makes a happy support is a good solid team winning on the park. Not the better interests of Rangers.

[Jack]

right what??

we were absolutely hideous to watch last season, produced a team on the park that had no fight and passion and were, to be totally honest, rank rotten, and all you read on here is rangers this, rangers that???

All im saying is id much rather spend my time getting behind our team and hoping they produce a far better display on the park than last season and staying in the spl than worrying to the extent that i feel the need to email a board member about my concern about where glasgow rangers will be playing their football next season.

does that not make any sense to you like?

You are talking of two different things here.

1. No-one will disagree we were rank rotten last year. I would also say the year before that and probably most of the year before that and there were signs in the year before that. I am confident that, at last, this is being addressed by the Club.

2. Hibs are a part of an association of clubs that make up the SPL and more widely the SFA. Having an interest in Hibs I also have an interest in the environment Hibs ply there trade. This part of Hibs future is seemingly in disarray.

As many others have repeatedly said had this been any other club this situation we find ourselves in would have been done and dusted a long time ago. The fact that it has not and continues to cause uncertainty in the environment causes me concern about the future of Scottish football and the affect that will have on Hibs.

I am sure our Club are doing everything within their power to protect Hibernian FC as a Club. My concern is that not enough is being done to protect the environment we play in.

[Lungo--Drom]

Has he reached the required quantum though? :D


Dont shoot the messenger.
Brian Kennedy back in the frame.Will offer to buy (the club) but not the stadium and look to ground share with either Killie,Motherwell or St Mirren until Green is forced to sell the Stadium as its un-used.:dunno:

[lapsedhibee]

If 'highest level' means a corrupt, deeply sloping playing field with 10 diddy clubs (their words) at the very bottom, you can stuff it. My fear is that there are quite a few with your attitude.

Oi! Nuffin wrong with a deeply sloping playing field. Good enough for the famous five, tornadoes, etc etc. :wink:

[HFC 0-7]

Am I being naive or is there nothing explicit in Hibs' statement that we should be panicking about? :dunno:

It is whats not in the statement that's the problem. Petrie would know hat the fans are asking, are you involved with this plan to parachute them IMO div 1. The statement could have cleared that up but didn't. Has this Been discussed with the spl chairmen, if so, where was petries stance.

[Lungo--Drom]

Killie would do them. They can share jacuzzi time with their little pet spokesman Kenny Shiels and sing the same song all the time, "We are the Killie*/Billy* boys" *delete as applicable or maybe that should be *delete as despicable...


Dont shoot the messenger.
Brian Kennedy back in the frame.Will offer to buy (the club) but not the stadium and look to ground share with either Killie,Motherwell or St Mirren until Green is forced to sell the Stadium as its un-used.:dunno:

[greenginger]

Whilst be totally against Sevco starting its footballing life anywhere but the Third Division, this gerrymandering might have a better result for Scottish Football 5-10 years down the the line.

Green has not got the funds to sustain any New Huns in the 3rd Division and I'm sure guys like McColl, Park and others with real wealth behind them would step in and build them up from the bottom with their support behind them and it would get back to the Old Firm double act we have detested for the last 30 years.

If Green survives by getting into the 1st Division the Huns will remain divided and weak and Celtic will also weaken without the fear of being beaten by their arch rivals. Green's aim is to make money out of Rangers so I hope he has the opportunity.

Having said that I still want them in the 3rd or nowhere.

[Liberal Hibby]

As a result of this proposal I'm thinking of purchasing a season ticket, just so I can send it back.

Rangers are no more - and it is time that the SPL just accepted it and take whatever hit comes their way as a consequence.

[HFC 0-7]

I think that the wording of the statement is significant. In order for newco to get into the first under the proposals, it requires immediate relegation for oldco Rangers (I don't think oldco can be relegated after the vote as they'll have given up their share).
The statement is very definite about voting no to the newco which then ( imho) implies that the vote will go ahead and the proposal won't.
I think if they vote no first then newco would have to apply for sfl 3 as there's no mechanism to put a new team in sfl 1.

Not I so sure, if they vote no to the spl share transfer, old co still have it. At which point they will be forced to give it up through relegation or the fact they are no longer able to field a club. I think what's happening here is a complete transfer of responsibility. At the moment they are responsible for rangers old co. if they choose not to transfer the share, they can relegate old co and it becomes the sfl problem. I fear this has been the plan all along. The statement from hibs basically backs this up. We vote no and it's someone else's decision.

[Skanko79]

You are talking of two different things here.

1. No-one will disagree we were rank rotten last year. I would also say the year before that and probably most of the year before that and there were signs in the year before that. I am confident that, at last, this is being addressed by the Club.

2. Hibs are a part of an association of clubs that make up the SPL and more widely the SFA. Having an interest in Hibs I also have an interest in the environment Hibs ply there trade. This part of Hibs future is seemingly in disarray.

As many others have repeatedly said had this been any other club this situation we find ourselves in would have been done and dusted a long time ago. The fact that it has not and continues to cause uncertainty in the environment causes me concern about the future of Scottish football and the affect that will have on Hibs.

I am sure our Club are doing everything within their power to protect Hibernian FC as a Club. My concern is that not enough is being done to protect the environment we play in.

The enviroment we play play in has been deteriorating for years. Not just now. From grass roots right to the very top this country needs a complete overhaul of the way we run things. I'm fully aware of that.

The fact that everyone is only NOW jumping on the bandwagon because of the rangers situation is a wee bit cringeworthy, but if the results of it improve our game then fair play.

All im saying is im more commited to worrying about how we will play next season and hoping we improve than i am about rangers. I'm under the immpression the majority of folk on here that go on about it just want rangers out and dont give a toss about our game.

Celtic effectively changed names in the 90's and no-one batted an eyelid. whats all the fuss about now?

[green glory]

The proposal is ridiculous enough to believe that it's been issued with the intention of it being rejected.

10/10. If I was a cynic, which I am. Donkey Doncaster's last gasp attempt to save his beloved Huns. The SPL chairmen humour his 'cunning plan' in the full knowledge the SFL1 clubs will reject it out of hand, followed by their refusal to join an SPL2.

Cue league reconstruction under the SFA/SFL. Hun Newco has to apply to join SFL3 as per Stewart Milne's statement. Doncaster's position untenable. Goodbye Doncaster and SPL.

[HFC 0-7]

I do agree with you, but what makes a happy support is a good solid team winning on the park. Not the better interests of Rangers.

Wont make me happy if the authorities have engineered a way for a club that has cheated to have a season out and come back spending millions more than us and putting us further down the league.

[alexedwards]

surely the future of our own club competing at the highest level should be at the forefront of your priorities instead of worrying about rangers.

couldnt give a toss about what happens with them.


Oh dear.

[lapsedhibee]

The enviroment we play play in has been deteriorating for years. Not just now. From grass roots right to the very top this country needs a complete overhaul of the way we run things. I'm fully aware of that.

The fact that everyone is only NOW jumping on the bandwagon because of the rangers situation is a wee bit cringeworthy, but if the results of it improve our game then fair play.

All im saying is im more commited to worrying about how we will play next season and hoping we improve than i am about rangers. I'm under the immpression the majority of folk on here that go on about it just want rangers out and dont give a toss about our game.

Celtic effectively changed names in the 90's and no-one batted an eyelid. whats all the fuss about now?

Is this what you think all the anger's about? HunFC adding "The" to their name? :confused:

[HFC 0-7]

Whilst be totally against Sevco starting its footballing life anywhere but the Third Division, this gerrymandering might have a better result for Scottish Football 5-10 years down the the line.

Green has not got the funds to sustain any New Huns in the 3rd Division and I'm sure guys like McColl, Park and others with real wealth behind them would step in and build them up from the bottom with their support behind them and it would get back to the Old Firm double act we have detested for the last 30 years.

If Green survives by getting into the 1st Division the Huns will remain divided and weak and Celtic will also weaken without the fear of being beaten by their arch rivals. Green's aim is to make money out of Rangers so I hope he has the opportunity.

Having said that I still want them in the 3rd or nowhere.

They will be stronger, even with green behind the club. When they get back into the spl after a season they will be debt free apart from the 5.5 loan which green will be making money on. They will get full houses again and be spending lots of money. Green will then be in a position to sell a virtually debt free rangers in the top flight, he will double his money easy.

[StevieC]

Dont shoot the messenger.
Brian Kennedy back in the frame.Will offer to buy (the club) but not the stadium and look to ground share with either Killie,Motherwell or St Mirren until Green is forced to sell the Stadium as its un-used.:dunno:

Surely there's nothing left to buy once you take the property out of the equation?

All he needs to do is show that he has a viable business plan and permission to play in a stadium?
In fact, if he renamed a non-league team to Govan Rangers he might even manage to provide 3 years of accounts?

[Just_Jimmy]

The enviroment we play play in has been deteriorating for years. Not just now. From grass roots right to the very top this country needs a complete overhaul of the way we run things. I'm fully aware of that.

The fact that everyone is only NOW jumping on the bandwagon because of the rangers situation is a wee bit cringeworthy, but if the results of it improve our game then fair play.

All im saying is im more commited to worrying about how we will play next season and hoping we improve than i am about rangers. I'm under the immpression the majority of folk on here that go on about it just want rangers out and dont give a toss about our game.

Celtic effectively changed names in the 90's and no-one batted an eyelid. whats all the fuss about now?

Its about having your eyes on the bigger picture. Its about the greater good. Its like these folk who say "i hate politics, i dont vote it doesn't affect me".

If they get away with what they did it WILL damage the game beyond repair. Just now we have an opportunity to make repairs which just might help bring our game back to life with all the other benefits that will bring. Fail and scottish football is dead. I also disagree with you that the majority of the support dont care. Id say the majority do, and further more the majority at all scottish clubs care.

[bingo70]

They will be stronger, even with green behind the club. When they get back into the spl after a season they will be debt free apart from the 5.5 loan which green will be making money on. They will get full houses again and be spending lots of money. Green will then be in a position to sell a virtually debt free rangers in the top flight, he will double his money easy.

I thought one of the conditions of the proposals was that they paid back the footballing debt of the old company? With the money due for Wallace, Jelavic plus possibly others would that not be about £6m? then you'd think they would accrue other debts while in the first division so straight away could well be over the £10m, add that to further sanctions which i think would be in place it may be harder for them to generate cash the way they did before so may not be the easy ride it's being made out to be.

I still think they should be punted back to the third division though.

[Hibbyradge]

I do agree with you, but what makes a happy support is a good solid team winning on the park. Not the better interests of Rangers.

You're mistaken.

Regardless of the team Hibs put on the park next year, if the league is fixed, I won't be happy and I won't be back.

[Skanko79]

Its about having your eyes on the bigger picture. Its about the greater good. Its like these folk who say "i hate politics, i dont vote it doesn't affect me".

If they get away with what they did it WILL damage the game beyond repair. Just now we have an opportunity to make repairs which just might help bring our game back to life with all the other benefits that will bring. Fail and scottish football is dead. I also disagree with you that the majority of the support dont care. Id say the majority do, and further more the majority at all scottish clubs care.

As i said earlier, if it improves our game then fair enough.

And i didnt say the majority didnt care, i said the majority are more interested in the improvement of our club on the park, not rangers.

[Skanko79]

You're mistaken.

Regardless of the team Hibs put on the park next year, if the league is fixed, I won't be happy and I won't be back.

im mistaken about wanting my team to do well on the park?

if you feel that strongly about it then fair enough.

[Just_Jimmy]

As i said earlier, if it improves our game then fair enough.

And i didnt say the majority didnt care, i said the majority are more interested in the improvement of our club on the park, not rangers.

Indeed you did. My apologies for misquoting you. The sentiment remains the same however, the majority of fans throughout scotland understand the situation with sevco 5088 has a direct corrolation to the well being of their club. If hibs play in a corrupt league then why does it matter if we sign messi and ronaldo?

[Part/Time Supporter]

The enviroment we play play in has been deteriorating for years. Not just now. From grass roots right to the very top this country needs a complete overhaul of the way we run things. I'm fully aware of that.

The fact that everyone is only NOW jumping on the bandwagon because of the rangers situation is a wee bit cringeworthy, but if the results of it improve our game then fair play.

All im saying is im more commited to worrying about how we will play next season and hoping we improve than i am about rangers. I'm under the immpression the majority of folk on here that go on about it just want rangers out and dont give a toss about our game.

Celtic effectively changed names in the 90's and no-one batted an eyelid. whats all the fuss about now?

FFS. According to HMRC, Rangers owe them £92,000,000. Rangers have decided not to pay that, but want to continue trading as Rangers, playing in blue shirts at Ibrox Stadium. And you think that's okay?

[Hibbyradge]

The fact that everyone is only NOW jumping on the bandwagon because of the rangers situation is a wee bit cringeworthy, but if the results of it improve our game then fair play.

All im saying is im more commited to worrying about how we will play next season and hoping we improve than i am about rangers. I'm under the immpression the majority of folk on here that go on about it just want rangers out and dont give a toss about our game.



That's an outrageous post.

You may not care about fairness and integrity, but please don't judge others by your low standards.

Clearly, it's you that doesn't give a toss about our game, if you're prepared to put up with corruption and greed and injustice.

To dismiss people's sincerely held beliefs as just "jumping on the bandwagon" is naive and suggests a total lack of awareness.

[greenginger]

They will be stronger, even with green behind the club. When they get back into the spl after a season they will be debt free apart from the 5.5 loan which green will be making money on. They will get full houses again and be spending lots of money. Green will then be in a position to sell a virtually debt free rangers in the top flight, he will double his money easy.

Disagree with you there. They are not buying Season Tickets because they don't trust Green, various factions have action campaigns going on, proposals today for another NewCo Hun playing at Hampden. The list goes on.

Also the fix to get them into the 1st Div. includes the NewCo being responsible for past sins etc.

I don't agree with the proposed fix but if it results in a weak and divided club for the next 10 years some good might come out of it.

[Hibbyradge]

im mistaken about wanting my team to do well on the park?



Read what I quoted.

[Skanko79]

FFS. According to HMRC, Rangers owe them £92,000,000. Rangers have decided not to pay that, but want to continue trading as Rangers, playing in blue shirts at Ibrox Stadium. And you think that's okay?

as said earlier. i couldnt give a toss about rangers.

[Skanko79]

That's an outrageous post.

You may not care about fairness and integrity, but please don't judge others by your low standards.

Clearly, it's you that doesn't give a toss about our game, if you're prepared to put up with corruption and greed and injustice.

To dismiss people's sincerely held beliefs as just "jumping on the bandwagon" is naive and suggests a total lack of awareness.

complete and utter drivel. thats all that merits.

sincerely held beliefs?? get a grip, i can count on one hand the ammount of folk on this board, you being one of them that come out with complete tosh regarding the rangers situation.

get behind your own team for a change.

[BarneyK]

complete and utter drivel. thats all that merits.

sincerely held beliefs?? get a grip, i can count on one hand the ammount of folk on this board, you being one of them that come out with complete tosh regarding the rangers situation.

get behind your own team for a change.

What is the "complete tosh" out of interest?

[Part/Time Supporter]

as said earlier. i couldnt give a toss about rangers.

Alright then, what do you give "a toss" about? Do you think it's alright for a Scottish football club to deprive schools and hospitals of £92 million?

[HFC 0-7]

Disagree with you there. They are not buying Season Tickets because they don't trust Green, various factions have action campaigns going on, proposals today for another NewCo Hun playing at Hampden. The list goes on.

Also the fix to get them into the 1st Div. includes the NewCo being responsible for past sins etc.

I don't agree with the proposed fix but if it results in a weak and divided club for the next 10 years some good might come out of it.

If rangers go IMO division 1 they wouldnt that many of their season ticket holders to renew to win that league. As soon as they are back in the spl they will flock back just to get it right up all, in heir eyes, that tried to kill rangers. Green could even sell before the start of the spl season and the hoarders will be back angrier than ever. The deal is that they take their past punishments, ie the fine. I am not sure the transfer ban is even still on the table.

[Hibbyradge]

complete and utter drivel. thats all that merits.

sincerely held beliefs?? get a grip, i can count on one hand the ammount of folk on this board, you being one of them that come out with complete tosh regarding the rangers situation.

get behind your own team for a change.

Excellent well thought out remarks.

As I said, a total lack of awareness.

I've supported Hibs since the 60's. I've been across Europe following them and I have years of season ticket books which I keep for some sentimental reason.

Giving up Scottish football is no easy option, but my sincerely held belief in fairness and integrity will not allow me to put up with what you seem perfectly happy to ignore.

If you want to kid yourself on that you're watching real competition in a real league, feel free, but don't criticise those who can see the truth.

You might as well watch WWF wrestling and pretend that's genuine too.

[sairheid]

The thing is, if you’re a businessman (which most chairmen are) it’s a good idea for the clubs. The ‘new’ Rangers are forced to take on the responsibilities of the old Rangers – pay their debts and take their punishment. And you’re not cutting out 50% of your main two income streams for longer than a year, so you’re not putting the future of your club at risk. Perfect.

Except football is not a business for the fans. We’ve seen Scottish football being hopelessly unbalanced for well over a century because of rancid bigotry. We’ve known that everything is twisted to favour the Old Firm and now we’ve proof that one half of them at least has been cheating and lying for years. And we’ve now got a once in a lifetime chance to make them pay, to redress the balance – even if just for a short time.

That’s what it’s all about. And that’s, hopefully, what the suits will come to understand. That it doesn’t matter how clever or financially sound the plan is. It won’t wash with the fans and it never will.

[HFC 0-7]

I thought one of the conditions of the proposals was that they paid back the footballing debt of the old company? With the money due for Wallace, Jelavic plus possibly others would that not be about £6m? then you'd think they would accrue other debts while in the first division so straight away could well be over the £10m, add that to further sanctions which i think would be in place it may be harder for them to generate cash the way they did before so may not be the easy ride it's being made out to be.
y are due mon
I still think they should be punted back to the third division though.


Yes they will need to pay back the Wallace money. The jelavic money is different, they are due money from everton which they can't pocket they will need to pass to rapid. Even still, I think rangers are owed more from everton than they owe rapid. Don't think they will lose money in division 1. Even if only 20% of rangers fans renewed they could still win the league easy spending less than they bring in. Green will not put the club into any more debt IMO when the league gets underway. He want to make a profit. If he gets rangers into the spl virtually debt free he will make a mint. He could make a profit selling the club now.

[hibsmad]

right what??

we were absolutely hideous to watch last season, produced a team on the park that had no fight and passion and were, to be totally honest, rank rotten, and all you read on here is rangers this, rangers that???

All im saying is id much rather spend my time getting behind our team and hoping they produce a far better display on the park than last season and staying in the spl than worrying to the extent that i feel the need to email a board member about my concern about where glasgow rangers will be playing their football next season.

does that not make any sense to you like?

Don't you get it? We were hideous to watch last season (and many other seasons) because we play by the rules and live within our means. Im not saying thats the only reason but it played a large part. If we were willing to cheat like Rangers then do you think we would have been watching pish football culminating in a footballing disaster against our biggest rivals? Does it not bother you to think back on all the games you have attended where Rangers have gubbed us and we have had to put up with their neanderthal supporters taunting us with their sectarian fueled bile.

Now they are trying to get off lightly and you say you couldn't care!!!

Does none of that make sense to you like?

[Caversham Green]

Not I so sure, if they vote no to the spl share transfer, old co still have it. At which point they will be forced to give it up through relegation or the fact they are no longer able to field a club. I think what's happening here is a complete transfer of responsibility. At the moment they are responsible for rangers old co. if they choose not to transfer the share, they can relegate old co and it becomes the sfl problem. I fear this has been the plan all along. The statement from hibs basically backs this up. We vote no and it's someone else's decision.

They can't relegate them. The SPL board would instruct Rangers FC to give up their share to whoever the board nominates. That would result in both Rangers FC and Sevco not having a league to play in and one or both can apply to the SFL for entry at whatever level the SFL sees fit, but that should be out of the SPL's hands.

[dangermouse]

Apparently the SPL is threatening to set up SPL 2 (incl new Huns) if SFL votes against reform.

What was Doncasters quote? "Without fear or favour." Looks like they are now using fear to favour one. :grr::grr::grr:

[Skanko79]

Alright then, what do you give "a toss" about? Do you think it's alright for a Scottish football club to deprive schools and hospitals of £92 million?

thats a wee bit over the top is it not?

i dont give a toss about where rangers play there football next season, thats what ive said all along.

some of you folk really need to take a long hard look at yourselves.

no point replying to any of my posts, i'll stick to getting involved in the more hibs related threads, you lot are a complete joke.

someone comes along with a different set of opinions to you and your on it like a bunch of wee fairys with your facts and fugures, is there no a seperate forum for folk like you lot to go and have your wee stat partys with your facts and fugures cos your boring me to complete tears, and probably the majority of folk on the forum.

The majority of HIBS SUPPORTERS ive spoken with regarding it, and believe me, its just been brief conversation becuase its not the be all and end all of our game, and im talking about folk that have supported the club through thick and thin since the 40's and 50's couldnt give a TOSS about it. they just want Hibs to do well and get behind there team.

what part of that is so difficult for you folk to understand???

emailing the board because your worried about rangers......get a grip. have you not got a job to go to or something istead of hassling our board at 1 in the morning??

[Brooster]

Excellent well thought out remarks.

As I said, a total lack of awareness.

I've supported Hibs since the 60's. I've been across Europe following them and I have years of season ticket books which I keep for some sentimental reason.

Giving up Scottish football is no easy option, but my sincerely held belief in fairness and integrity will not allow me to put up with what you seem perfectly happy to ignore.If you want to kid yourself on that you're watching real competition in a real league, feel free, but don't criticise those who can see the truth.

You might as well watch WWF wrestling and pretend that's genuine too.

Do you really feel the need to tell everyone this about 12 times every day? Stop boring people.

[Skanko79]

Excellent well thought out remarks.

As I said, a total lack of awareness.

I've supported Hibs since the 60's. I've been across Europe following them and I have years of season ticket books which I keep for some sentimental reason.

Giving up Scottish football is no easy option, but my sincerely held belief in fairness and integrity will not allow me to put up with what you seem perfectly happy to ignore.

If you want to kid yourself on that you're watching real competition in a real league, feel free, but don't criticise those who can see the truth.

You might as well watch WWF wrestling and pretend that's genuine too.

so, in your well football educated mind then have these problems with our game just come about now with the rangers situation? our games been a shambles for years if not decades.

and the fact that you have watched hibs since the 60's and been all over is good, i didnt once doubt your commitment as a fan, just maybe urged you to get behind Hibs rather than worrying about rangers.

[greenginger]

The thing is, if you’re a businessman (which most chairmen are) it’s a good idea for the clubs. The ‘new’ Rangers are forced to take on the responsibilities of the old Rangers – pay their debts and take their punishment. And you’re not cutting out 50% of your main two income streams for longer than a year, so you’re not putting the future of your club at risk. Perfect.

Except football is not a business for the fans. We’ve seen Scottish football being hopelessly unbalanced for well over a century because of rancid bigotry. We’ve known that everything is twisted to favour the Old Firm and now we’ve proof that one half of them at least has been cheating and lying for years. And we’ve now got a once in a lifetime chance to make them pay, to redress the balance – even if just for a short time.

That’s what it’s all about. And that’s, hopefully, what the suits will come to understand. That it doesn’t matter how clever or financially sound the plan is. It won’t wash with the fans and it never will.

The only future for Scottish Football outwth Rangers and Celtic is for their their power duopoly and dominence of the game to be terminated .

Consigning them to the 3rd division and them climbing back on top in 5 years time will be as damaging to other clubs as leaving them in the SPL.

[Hibbyradge]

Do you really feel the need to tell everyone this about 12 times every day? Stop boring people.

I'm replying to someone who is insulting everyone who doesn't agree with him. It's relevant and it justifies repeating.

I can't help it if you find it boring.

[HFC 0-7]

They can't relegate them. The SPL board would instruct Rangers FC to give up their share to whoever the board nominates. That would result in both Rangers FC and Sevco not having a league to play in and one or both can apply to the SFL for entry at whatever level the SFL sees fit, but that should be out of the SPL's hands.

The bit I am not sure about is the spl board instructing them to give up the share. If the spl are intent on letting rangers get the best possible deal what is stopping the from relegation? the vote is only for will we allow rangers to transfer the shre to a newco. If its a no then i think it's pretty unclear what happens with old rangers and their share.

[Aldo]

Our Chairman has spoken of sporting integrity whilst (it appears) he has orchestrated change to our game which lacks integrity. NewCo have been given lenient and preferential treatment thus - rightly IMHO - leaving many fans (Hibs and others) to question the credibility of any form of integrity in our game. I have principles - it appears many others have also - I am not about to develop another set of principles when its convenient to do so. NewCo in Div 1 is insufficient punishment, and unacceptable to me.

I will say this id his position at the SFA us clashing with his interests at Hibernian then he should resign from one of the posts. He's either all for Hibs or hes not. ( o and fwiw I am a RP backer ) if he has had ulterior motives in his position at the SFA then he contradicts what he says as Hibs chairman then surely his integrity is in question.

[scoopyboy]

Thing that cheeses me off with this thread and others is that Hibs fans are arguing with each other over f****** Rangers.

It's been hard enough the last two seasons without falling out over those Glasgow *****.

This thread is fair enough but most other threads is hijacked with Rangers nonsense, I went into the signings thread and actually came back out it because I thought I had opened the wrong one by mistake.

[Part/Time Supporter]

thats a wee bit over the top is it not?

No, it's a fact.


i dont give a toss about where rangers play there football next season, thats what ive said all along.

some of you folk really need to take a long hard look at yourselves.

no point replying to any of my posts, i'll stick to getting involved in the more hibs related threads, you lot are a complete joke.

someone comes along with a different set of opinions to you and your on it like a bunch of wee fairys with your facts and fugures, is there no a seperate forum for folk like you lot to go and have your wee stat partys with your facts and fugures cos your boring me to complete tears, and probably the majority of folk on the forum.

The majority of HIBS SUPPORTERS ive spoken with regarding it, and believe me, its just been brief conversation becuase its not the be all and end all of our game, and im talking about folk that have supported the club through thick and thin since the 40's and 50's couldnt give a TOSS about it. they just want Hibs to do well and get behind there team.

what part of that is so difficult for you folk to understand???

emailing the board because your worried about rangers......get a grip. have you not got a job to go to or something istead of hassling our board at 1 in the morning??

Keep your head in the sand then.

[green glory]

Regardless what happens. I intend to do the above. Just wanted to say my piece.

[Skanko79]

I'm replying to someone who is insulting everyone who doesn't agree with him. It's relevant and it justifies repeating.

I can't help it if you find it boring.


point out please where i have insulted anyone?

im sure if i had youd be all over it like a shot reporting it to the admins.

[Brooster]

I'm replying to someone who is insulting everyone who doesn't agree with him. It's relevant and it justifies repeating.I can't help it if you find it boring.

I beg to differ, you and Desperate Dan are basically typing the same stuff in every post you write. Im not saying I disagree with you but please give us a break.

[silverhibee]

You're mistaken.

Regardless of the team Hibs put on the park next year, if the league is fixed, I won't be happy and I won't be back.


And for once i agree with you Mr Radge, a fixed league and i am finished with Scottish football, i will not be back either and i am sure there will be thousands of supporters from SPL clubs doing the same as us.

[green glory]

https://twitter.com/tonymckelvie/status/218650590295764992

The proposals start to fall apart.

[Hibbyradge]

so, in your well football educated mind then have these problems with our game just come about now with the rangers situation? our games been a shambles for years if not decades.



There's always been inequality in football, I know that, but that applies to every league in the world.

Big teams have more money, wield more power and get more breaks.

But that's accepted as part of the deal. Small clubs exist to beat these giants, fairly and squarely.

But Rangers didn't even allow that. They stole that from us by their cheating.




and the fact that you have watched hibs since the 60's and been all over is good, i didnt once doubt your commitment as a fan, just maybe urged you to get behind Hibs rather than worrying about rangers.

I'm not worried about Rangers.

I'm worried about the sport that I committed myself to, emotionally and financially, for over 40 years.

[silverhibee]

That's an outrageous post.

You may not care about fairness and integrity, but please don't judge others by your low standards.

Clearly, it's you that doesn't give a toss about our game, if you're prepared to put up with corruption and greed and injustice.

To dismiss people's sincerely held beliefs as just "jumping on the bandwagon" is naive and suggests a total lack of awareness.



:applause::applause:

[alexedwards]

Doncaster, Regan (who is up to his neck in it now), Ogilvie, Petrie, Topping, Lawwell and a few other Chairman sincerely believe in their naivety the threat by fans to not attend matches is not real.
The above "leaders" and possibly a few others believe if they think it enough and say it enough you will believe it...because after all we are just a football fan and we'll swallow any old line.
The SPL was designed for the benefit of 2 clubs by those 2 clubs, and Jim McLean will maintain to this day he regrets the day he was sold on this by Celtic/Rangers.
And with gers out of the picture (not completely) it has to be Celtic who are driving this. Now I don't have access to any Celtic fans sites but would like to know for sure Celtic's fans are aware Lawwell is selling them and their dearly held beliefs right down the Clyde as we write.

[Nando™]

Fingers firmly lodged in the lugs for some idiots, "Laa laa laa not happening laa la laaaaaaaaa."

[alexedwards]

Doncaster, Regan (who is up to his neck in it now), Ogilvie, Petrie, Topping, Lawwell and a few other Chairman sincerely believe in their naivety the threat by fans to not attend matches is not real.
The above "leaders" and possibly a few others believe if they think it enough and say it enough you will believe it...because after all we are just a football fan and we'll swallow any old line.
The SPL was designed for the benefit of 2 clubs by those 2 clubs, and Jim McLean will maintain to this day he regrets the day he was sold on this by Celtic/Rangers.
And with gers out of the picture (not completely) it has to be Celtic who are driving this. Now I don't have access to any Celtic fans sites but would like to know for sure Celtic's fans are aware Lawwell is selling them and their dearly held beliefs right down the Clyde as we write.

[silverhibee]

complete and utter drivel. thats all that merits.

sincerely held beliefs?? get a grip, i can count on one hand the ammount of folk on this board, you being one of them that come out with complete tosh regarding the rangers situation.

get behind your own team for a change.



So you think its right for cheats to prosper in Scottish football.

Tell me this, would you go to the casino where you no the tables are rigged, the machines are rigged, the whole place is set up to rip you off and take your money, would you still go in and gamble your money or even be daft enough to go back the next week and gamble your money again.

[Renfrew_Hibby]

What a sorry sorry mess this is :rolleyes:

Now having to work and trying to get on and have a life, I haven't been able to keep up to speed with this fast moving and ever changing farce so I could be well off the mark but this is how i see it:

Yes Rangers have done wrong and so need to be punnished - SPL club chairmen come out and say they have listend and will vote NO to a newco but for me it was quite noticable the clubs that haven't said NO as of yet. Celtic, Lawells played a blinder here as by not sying anything he hasn't yet upset his own clubs support and also defused a possible public disorder catasrophy. Now the other noticable nay sayers are the small clubs in the greater Glasgow are, St.Mirren, Well and Killie. These are the three clubs who would suffer the most from a boycote of Old Firm fans.
It seems like Clubs are working together to best please their fans and defuse Gers fans anger.

Now this is where Sky enter the equation:
Yes we want to demote Gers/Sevco to the bottom and that is what should happen but we know Sky will rip up the contract so we propose 1st division as the solution.
We know this is wrong and SFL clubs know its wrong but i think that if we dont do this then Sky walks and Killie and Motherwell (at least) go to the wall overnight.
The banks will be using the Sky contract as insurance for their continued support of the clubs and without it they will pull the plug on the clubs.

So basically Sky have us over a barrell and we have somehow created a situation where SPL clubs are under so much pressure from the banks to keep the deal that we are now blackmailing SFL clubs into supporting Newco for 1st Div or else! If the SFL dont vote for it then SPL2 is created and the whole pyramid proposal and and hope and dreams of lower league sides die forever.

I genuinely think that Petrie and co would want to do exactly what we all want them to do but they fear if they do clubs will pay the ultimate price with the banks and so therefor they can't. Sadly by doing what is being proposed they could die a slower death, Petrie is caught between a rock and a hard place and feels he couldn't win no matter what he did.

It's my day off and i was going to drive through and get the new top but now i'm just totally scunnered with the whole sorry saga i just don't know what to do. What i do know is that i will neve subscribe to Sky but i also know that i could never walk away from Hibs. GGTTH

[GreenCastle]

thats a wee bit over the top is it not?

i dont give a toss about where rangers play there football next season, thats what ive said all along.

some of you folk really need to take a long hard look at yourselves.

no point replying to any of my posts, i'll stick to getting involved in the more hibs related threads, you lot are a complete joke.

someone comes along with a different set of opinions to you and your on it like a bunch of wee fairys with your facts and fugures, is there no a seperate forum for folk like you lot to go and have your wee stat partys with your facts and fugures cos your boring me to complete tears, and probably the majority of folk on the forum.

The majority of HIBS SUPPORTERS ive spoken with regarding it, and believe me, its just been brief conversation becuase its not the be all and end all of our game, and im talking about folk that have supported the club through thick and thin since the 40's and 50's couldnt give a TOSS about it. they just want Hibs to do well and get behind there team.

what part of that is so difficult for you folk to understand???

emailing the board because your worried about rangers......get a grip. have you not got a job to go to or something istead of hassling our board at 1 in the morning??

Oh dear :rolleyes:

Think your in the minority about your opinions - if you can't see the bigger picture here there is a problem and I would start reading more about it and the consequences it will have for the game in the future.

[silverhibee]

Excellent well thought out remarks.

As I said, a total lack of awareness.

I've supported Hibs since the 60's. I've been across Europe following them and I have years of season ticket books which I keep for some sentimental reason.

Giving up Scottish football is no easy option, but my sincerely held belief in fairness and integrity will not allow me to put up with what you seem perfectly happy to ignore.

If you want to kid yourself on that you're watching real competition in a real league, feel free, but don't criticise those who can see the truth.

You might as well watch WWF wrestling and pretend that's genuine too.


What the WWF is rigged, you never, shocked at that news so i am. But others tell me its the real deal. :wink: :greengrin

[Dashing Bob S]

Excellent well thought out remarks.

As I said, a total lack of awareness.

I've supported Hibs since the 60's. I've been across Europe following them and I have years of season ticket books which I keep for some sentimental reason.

Giving up Scottish football is no easy option, but my sincerely held belief in fairness and integrity will not allow me to put up with what you seem perfectly happy to ignore.

If you want to kid yourself on that you're watching real competition in a real league, feel free, but don't criticise those who can see the truth.

You might as well watch WWF wrestling and pretend that's genuine too.


This is exactly how I feel. The truth is that Scottish Football is crap and utterly corrupt, but a love of my local team and a belief that they are at least playing in a semblence of a real and fair competition, where everybody is bound by the same rules, even if the financial odds are stacked against most of them, is all that is keeping me in this circus.

If that goes out the window, then I won't be involved in the ridiculous farce left behind. Why would any sane person want to be?

[Skanko79]

So you think its right for cheats to prosper in Scottish football.

Tell me this, would you go to the casino where you no the tables are rigged, the machines are rigged, the whole place is set up to rip you off and take your money, would you still go in and gamble your money or even be daft enough to go back the next week and gamble your money again.

your post is a perfect example of my point.

the rangers situation is not the be all and end all of life.

ive not in ANY of my posts used the word cheat, nor said i want them to prosper in our game.

the minute someone comes along with a different set of opinions its not the end of the world.

[silverhibee]

thats a wee bit over the top is it not?

i dont give a toss about where rangers play there football next season, thats what ive said all along.

some of you folk really need to take a long hard look at yourselves.

no point replying to any of my posts, i'll stick to getting involved in the more hibs related threads, you lot are a complete joke.

someone comes along with a different set of opinions to you and your on it like a bunch of wee fairys with your facts and fugures, is there no a seperate forum for folk like you lot to go and have your wee stat partys with your facts and fugures cos your boring me to complete tears, and probably the majority of folk on the forum.

The majority of HIBS SUPPORTERS ive spoken with regarding it, and believe me, its just been brief conversation becuase its not the be all and end all of our game, and im talking about folk that have supported the club through thick and thin since the 40's and 50's couldnt give a TOSS about it. they just want Hibs to do well and get behind there team.

what part of that is so difficult for you folk to understand???

emailing the board because your worried about rangers......get a grip. have you not got a job to go to or something istead of hassling our board at 1 in the morning??

I can only laugh at that :faf::faf::faf::faf::faf::faf::faf::faf:

[Caversham Green]

Firstly I'm finding it hard to believe that the document in the STV report was published by the SFL. The standard would embarrass a local pub quiz league and many of the statements are at best spurious. This is the future of Scottish football we're talking about and it deserves a full report, not a handful of trite bullet points with absolutely no foundation. If this is the standard of its governing bodies Scottish football started dying a long time ago. As far as the subject matter goes, it warns of meltdown - if the future of the game is dependent on the existence of a single, institutionally corrupt club then meltdown is both necessary and deserved.

As I've said before, the way ahead is clear and obvious and already decided upon by the people who are now trying to change it. No doubt it will be damaging, but in my view they have to contemplate the difference between damage and death, because deviation from the path will kill the game. I'm cursed with the ability to see both sides of most arguments, but in this case I can see only one.

I'll reserve comment on Rod Petrie until his full involvement in this process comes to light, but he does seem to need reminding of his comment about sporting intergrity being beyond purchase. At the moment those word look worse than empty.

To those saying they won't be back, can I make a suggestion? I fully agree with your stance and I would be saying the same thing if I was a regular, but remember if SPL2 is formed it will be because the SFL clubs rejected the admission of Rangers into SFL1. These clubs will deserve support, so get yourselves along to your nearest SFL club and get your footy fix there instead of the corrupt SPL.

[Big Frank]

Our Chairman has spoken of sporting integrity whilst (it appears) he has orchestrated change to our game which lacks integrity. NewCo have been given lenient and preferential treatment thus - rightly IMHO - leaving many fans (Hibs and others) to question the credibility of any form of integrity in our game. I have principles - it appears many others have also - I am not about to develop another set of principles when its convenient to do so. NewCo in Div 1 is insufficient punishment, and unacceptable to me.


Without appearing rude, isn't it the case that you don't actually turn up to watch Hibernian? -but you will attend when we visit Tannadice - (not a dig at not turning up by the way - each to their own) - the point I'm making is that insufficient punishment to rangers being unacceptabel to you makes absolutely not a jot of difference to Hibernian FC?


Come to check this thread out for genuine signing rumours and spend most of the time trailing through pages of complete guff about the huns and other pish.

Can we please try keep to the topic of the thread.

Sorry SMAXXA :greengrin

[Hibbyradge]

I beg to differ, you and Desperate Dan are basically typing the same stuff in every post you write. Im not saying I disagree with you but please give us a break.

Jeez, Brooster, if repetition was banned, there would be a fraction of the posts on here. :wink:

It's not my intention to irritate you, merely to discuss issues and give my opinion, but if you're finding them too difficult to bear, I won't be offended if you put me on ignore.

[Jim44]

Skanco, you've made your point over and over and over. As far as I can see you've failed to convince anyone that your blinkered, simplistic viewpoint is the way to go. If you believe that the turning a blind eye to corruption and cheating is the majority viewpoint of all Hibs supporters, God help us. You, as is your right, have condemned the other viewpoint. There doesn't seem to be any common ground ( except that we all have the same aim). Since the admins have religiously condensed all the 'Rangers' posts into one or two threads, it surely makes it simple for you to ignore the 'moaning minority'.

[PatHead]

Dont shoot the messenger.
Brian Kennedy back in the frame.Will offer to buy (the club) but not the stadium and look to ground share with either Killie,Motherwell or St Mirren until Green is forced to sell the Stadium as its un-used.:dunno:

Heard the same but it was Hampden he enquired about>

[hibsmad]

your post is a perfect example of my point.

the rangers situation is not the be all and end all of life.

ive not in ANY of my posts used the word cheat, nor said i want them to prosper in our game.

the minute someone comes along with a different set of opinions its not the end of the world.

Exactly! You have not used the word because you seem to either be in denial, or in your own words you "couldn't give a toss".

Quite simply a lot of people do not want to overlook a crucial fact that you seem happy to.

[Skanko79]

Skanco, you've made your point over and over and over. As far as I can see you've failed to convince anyone that your blinkered, simplistic viewpoint is the way to go. If you believe that the turning a blind eye to corruption and cheating is the majority viewpoint of all Hibs supporters, God help us. You, as is your right, have condemned the other viewpoint. There doesn't seem to be any common ground ( except that we all have the same aim). Since the admins have religiously condensed all the 'Rangers' posts into one or two threads, it surely makes it simple for you to ignore the 'moaning minority'.

im most certainly not the one trying to convince anyone of anything.

and your right, 400 odd pages of the same people blowing smoke up each others @rses about the rangers situation is NOT appealing.

[Skanko79]

Exactly! You have not used the word because you seem to either be in denial, or in your own words you "couldn't give a toss".

Quite simply a lot of people do not want to overlook a crucial fact that you seem happy to.

alot of people? judging by the posts on this forum it would seem somewhere in the region of about 8 or 9.

[hibsmad]

alot of people? judging by the posts on this forum it would seem somewhere in the region of about 8 or 9.

Well judging by the posts on this forum that's about 7 or 8 more people than those who share your view.

[Caversham Green]

The bit I am not sure about is the spl board instructing them to give up the share. If the spl are intent on letting rangers get the best possible deal what is stopping the from relegation? the vote is only for will we allow rangers to transfer the shre to a newco. If its a no then i think it's pretty unclear what happens with old rangers and their share.

The articles and rules are very clear - the board would have no option but to give that instruction - Rangers FC are no longer a football club and so are not eligible. The SFL are a separate body and the SPL cannot force them to accept any club beyond the already agreed promotion/relegation arrangement of one up/one down.

Rangers FC cannot be relegated they can only be expelled from the SPL - unless the articles/rules are changed which is what they seem to be cntemplating now.

[Skanko79]

Well judging by the posts on this forum that's about 7 or 8 more people than those who share your view.


so, if Rangers get to stay in the SPL or get to go to the 1st division are you going to stop supporting Hibs and going to Easter Road?

[Bad Martini]

so, if Rangers get to stay in the SPL or get to go to the 1st division are you going to stop supporting Hibs and going to Easter Road?

Really? I suppose this here, is representative of 8 or 9 folk on Hibs.net whae are pissed off with the hun situ?

http://www.hibernianfc.co.uk/page/FeaturedContent/0,,10290~2639653,00.html

I suggest, at least a portion of that 2,500 punters who had season tickets last year are NOT renewing until this ***** is cleared up.

Nobody likes being made a **** out of. And rangers/the media/spl/sfl and SOME clubs are attempting to make a **** out of us all, the rules and sporting integrity.

Bottom line; Gretna and others went bust (and under FAR less devious circumstances) - they disappeared. They would not have been offered immediate entry into the 1st division so why the **** should rangers? Their contribution to the cause of progressing Scottish Football all over the world - Im sure the folk of Manchester would welcome them back? Dodgy salutes? Dodgy songs?

Its NOT that anyone doesny care aboot Hibs more than Rangers....its all aboot being made to look stupid and most folk, rate that right up there with what matters.

RANGERS TO THE THIRD DIVISION. ANYTHING ELSE, IS PISH AND ****ING CHEATING.

GGTTH.

ENDOF

[BarneyK]

so, if Rangers get to stay in the SPL or get to go to the 1st division are you going to stop supporting Hibs and going to Easter Road?

http://www.hibs.net/showthread.php?228245-Rangers-In-Administration-(latest-SPL-trying-to-force-newco-into-SFL1)

Does this poll answer your question as to the thoughts of people on this matter?

[Skanko79]

if you guys want to stop supporting hibs over it then on you go. its you that will be the death of our club if you do so.

good luck with that.

[BarneyK]

if you guys want to stop supporting hibs over it then on you go. its you that will be the death of our club if you do so.

good luck with that.

Nobody wants that. We want to be treated as equals, not to be treated as second class. If we don't speak up this will go through.

[Barney McGrew]

http://www.saintmirren.net/pages/?p=13398

St Mirren now confirm their intention to vote no, but more interestingly throw their weight behind a 16 team top division.

[Skanko79]

Nobody wants that. We want to be treated as equals, not to be treated as second class. If we don't speak up this will go through.

and your willing to sacrifice the future of your own club for that of another?

[EskbankHibby]

I'll reserve comment on Rod Petrie until his full involvement in this process comes to light, but he does seem to need reminding of his comment about sporting intergrity being beyond purchase. At the moment those word look worse than empty.




:agree:, it's such an obvious contradiction that i find it very hard to believe that RP, having been very consistent on the sporting integrity front, would try such a crass manouevre.

He will no doubt though be looking into the least worst option for Hibs, it's his job. The proposal for Rangers directly into first division is such a contemptable, clumsy idea that i can't see Petrie orchestrating it - I am prepared to stand corrected on this though.

How about a solution of say :

14 team SPL
14 team SPL2/Div 1
14 team SPL3/Div 2 (with pyramid system)

Rangers still get pumped to the lowest possible league in Scottish Senior Football, a consistent punishment (i.e. Livingston) but could be back in SPL in 2 years
League reconstructioin with pyramid system, play offs and more (?2-3) automatic relegation/promotion places
For this structure to be adopted the OF would have to agree to EQUAL share of the broadcasting money pot and an EQUITABLE voting structure


Perhaps a tad simplistic but possibly a way of ensuring the fair change necessary for the game in Scotland, punishing Rangers maximally but with a smaller stick to beat them with in terms of only 2 leagues below SPL.

Win/Win.:dunno:

[Steve20]

All im saying is im more commited to worrying about how we will play next season and hoping we improve than i am about rangers. I'm under the immpression the majority of folk on here that go on about it just want rangers out and dont give a toss about our game.


Agree with this. If it had been any other team but Rangers, the majority of people threatening to never go back wouldn't even bother. It's just that there is such hatred towards them on here that people want them gone.

I couldn't care less if they're in Division 1 or Division 3, as long as Hibs are doing well.

[McSwanky]

if you guys want to stop supporting hibs over it then on you go. its you that will be the death of our club if you do so.

good luck with that.

No. It won't only be our club that dies. It will be Scottish football. Because this conversation is mirrored across fans of teams the length and breadth of this country. Teams that aren't doing quite as well as Hibs financially. I admire your blind loyalty to Hibernian, but the club are part of a bigger picture.

I have a question for you. If Rod decided that Hibs were going to change direction and start playing rugby in the SRU leagues (or whatever they're called), would you still go? Or would you desert your club at that stage?

[Skanko79]

Agree with this. If it had been any other team but Rangers, the majority of people threatening to never go back wouldn't even bother. It's just that there is such hatred towards them on here that people want them gone.

I couldn't care less if they're in Division 1 or Division 3, as long as Hibs are doing well.

I know, been searching for a 500 page thread for when it happened to gretna and dundee and livvy but im struggling to find one somehow.....................

[BarneyK]

and your willing to sacrifice the future of your own club for that of another?

In many ways, it's nothing to do with Rangers anymore. It's to do with believing in your club and that they are competing in a fair and just competition. Many people will just lose the heart for participation in a league where a club can do whatever they like and face no punishment, where they are not allowed to be relegated, where, if you listened to early media reports, they aren't even allowed to finish outwith the top 6 - because that would knackers Sky's 4 old firm games. It leaves too many questions unanswered. If they dinnae stroll through the first division and face a last match battle for that promotion place, is the other club expected to throw the game? If they get back to the SPL and Hibs are sitting in 4th, 3 points away from Europe and they are sitting bottom needing a win to stay up, are WE supposed to throw the match? If, unlikely as it would be, they decided to try their hand at proper match fixing, our powers that be have already confirmed for them that there is not a thing that we could do that would punish them fully. Basically we are giving them carte blanche to do whatever the Hell they like, yeah, much like it's always been, but it somehow sticks in the craw when it is this blatant, and that is what many are struggling with.

[Hibbyradge]

Agree with this. If it had been any other team but Rangers, the majority of people threatening to never go back wouldn't even bother. It's just that there is such hatred towards them on here that people want them gone.

I couldn't care less if they're in Division 1 or Division 3, as long as Hibs are doing well.

Hibs haven't been doing well for decades.

It now transpires that part of the reason for that is Rangers' cheating.

How much are you willing to put up with before walking away?

[BarneyK]

I know, been searching for a 500 page thread for when it happened to gretna and dundee and livvy but im struggling to find one somehow.....................

You're looking for the thread where Livvy and Gretna were parachuted into the first division and the whole of Scottish football was restructured to get them there? Good luck with that.

[Captain Trips]

I know, been searching for a 500 page thread for when it happened to gretna and dundee and livvy but im struggling to find one somehow.....................

It didnt need one as the rules where in place and it was dealt with, on this occasion the rules are in place and it is far from dealt with.

[Part/Time Supporter]

I know, been searching for a 500 page thread for when it happened to gretna and dundee and livvy but im struggling to find one somehow.....................

That's probably because the authorities didn't try to bend (if not break) the rules to "accommodate" them.

[Skanko79]

No. It won't only be our club that dies. It will be Scottish football. Because this conversation is mirrored across fans of teams the length and breadth of this country. Teams that aren't doing quite as well as Hibs financially. I admire your blind loyalty to Hibernian, but the club are part of a bigger picture.

I have a question for you. If Rod decided that Hibs were going to change direction and start playing rugby in the SRU leagues (or whatever they're called), would you still go? Or would you desert your club at that stage?

right, so ive now been faced with possible scenarios comparing this situation to one in a casino and now rugby. that for me about sums it up.

im NOT trying to change anyones views on this, just a bit stumped as to why people are prepared to walk away from our club.

scottish football has been a complete farce for years im affraid. the sooner some folk here realise that the better.

[Hibbyradge]

I know, been searching for a 500 page thread for when it happened to gretna and dundee and livvy but im struggling to find one somehow.....................

Exactly.

Because they were dealt with as per the rules.

They also didn't rob £140m in order to win countless championships and trophies and get to a UEFA Cup Final!

The SFA, SFL and SPL are bending the rules to let Rangers off. It's corruption and you're condoning it.

[Skanko79]

Hibs haven't been doing well for decades.



fancy going into a wee bit more detail with that?

[Captain Trips]

right, so ive now been faced with possible scenarios comparing this situation to one in a casino and now rugby. that for me about sums it up.

im NOT trying to change anyones views on this, just a bit stumped as to why people are prepared to walk away from our club.

scottish football has been a complete farce for years im affraid. the sooner some folk here realise that the better.

It is our club when the club are doing things as per the rules in place, it then becomes something else if it is involved in any form of bending rules for a club that has cheated on every club it has played, that is not Hibs to me that is just another wing of the OF and I am not going to support that.

If Hibs are having nothing to do with it in anyway shape or form I am with them 100%.

[InchHibby]

[QUOTE=Bad Martini;3279506]Really? I suppose this here, is representative of 8 or 9 folk on Hibs.net whae are pissed off with the hun situ?

http://www.hibernianfc.co.uk/page/FeaturedContent/0,,10290~2639653,00.html

I suggest, at least a portion of that 2,500 punters who had season tickets last year are NOT renewing until this ***** is cleared up.

Nobody likes being made a **** out of. And rangers/the media/spl/sfl and SOME clubs are attempting to make a **** out of us all, the rules and sporting integrity.

Bottom line; Gretna and others went bust (and under FAR less devious circumstances) - they disappeared. They would not have been offered immediate entry into the 1st division so why the **** should rangers? Their contribution to the cause of progressing Scottish Football all over the world - Im sure the folk of Manchester would welcome them back? Dodgy salutes? Dodgy songs?

Its NOT that anyone doesny care aboot Hibs more than Rangers....its all aboot being made to look stupid and most folk, rate that right up there with what matters.

RANGERS TO THE THIRD DIVISION. ANYTHING ELSE, IS PISH AND ****ING CHEATING.
:confused:
I totally agree,
and just to clarify things, its not only what Rangers have done that's irritating most Fans, its the blatant rule changing to accommodate them.
As we all know they have been suffocating Scottish Football for decades now and we along with all other clubs, out with the Old firm, have had to
accept it and get on with it, but now that we have a chance of change, albeit through a serious breach of rule breaking, change which can only
be good for Scottish Football, but alas the SPL and SFA dont want that change to be as drastic as the current rules state, rules that they would
quickly and severely implement if it were any other club outwith the Glasgow Clubs.
This only tells me that there is fear, within the powers that be and the Glasgow Clubs, in allowing the other Clubs to compete on a fairer and
level basis.
If we allow these proposals put forward by the SPL and SFA to go ahead, what is the point of carrying on only to once again play second fiddle
to and again be playing for third spot in a League that is already a laughing stock throughout Britain and European football.
And mark my words those Rangers fans will like nothing better than to see other clubs go to the wall and if they can assist in that by boycotting
grounds who had the audacity to vote against them on an issue they themselves would not be blinkered to if it was another Club rather than
themselves then they will do this.
Third Division or the games up.
GGTTH

[Skanko79]

listen guys, if im being totally honest with you im getting abit bored listening to your facts and figures and your dates and deadlines with rules and regulations.

the long and short of it is that if your going to walk away from the club you have apparantley "supported" all your life then good for you.

just do it quietly. Because when you realise that the majority of the 2500 folk that signed that petition completely bottle it beacuse they signed it purely down to the fact they hate rangers (as i do as well by the way) and renew anyway and your left twiddling your thumbs on a saturday afternoon dont say i didnt warn you.

no point replying to this by the way cos im done.

[Newry Hibs]

How can there even be a possibility of restructuring the leagues with only 5 weeks until the SPL kicks off?? Surely there are too many plans in place for the current fixtures? Police / stewarding / catering / travel plans by clubs. Let alone season tickets being sold; club budgets being set.
I would feel for the three teams 'awarded' a promotion. How can they possibily hope to challenge in a league they weren't expecting to be in. This, of course, depends on TRFC being in div 3.


I am so angry at all this being done to save one cheating club. Just what a poor state of affairs is Scottish football in, that it just can't do without a team that has been sh*tting on them for years and years. It feels like we are a victim of abuse who keeps taking it because they can afford to buy a few trinkets occassionally to keep us thinking they aren't so bad and will probably change, maybe tomorrow.

Hopefully teams like Morton see a big pick up in their attendances.

[JeMeSouviens]

I know, been searching for a 500 page thread for when it happened to gretna and dundee and livvy but im struggling to find one somehow.....................

That's because all those situations were dealt with under the rules. That's all anybody is asking for now. What we're getting is a series of attempts to bend the rules or just make up new ones to keep some form of Hun club at the top of the Scottish game.

You're right that the game has been getting more and more ****ed for years, but this would be the straw that breaks the camel's back as far as I'm concerned. You're totally free to disagree, keep attending, do what you like, up to you. You're perfectly entitled to your different opinion.

[McSwanky]

right, so ive now been faced with possible scenarios comparing this situation to one in a casino and now rugby. that for me about sums it up.

im NOT trying to change anyones views on this, just a bit stumped as to why people are prepared to walk away from our club.

scottish football has been a complete farce for years im affraid. the sooner some folk here realise that the better.

What I was trying to do (and clearly failing miserably) is show you that everyone has a line they draw as to where they decide that enough's enough. At that point they walk away from Hibernian. I was hoping for an answer from you on the rugby thing, but clearly you're not in a mood to answer my question.

If you have enough time and disposable income to continue to watch a game of which the result has, to all intents and purposes, been decided off the pitch, then you go for it. Nobody's stopping you.

What gets me is not the fact that Scottish football has been a farce for years, it's the fact that we're now getting that confirmed to us and our faces rubbed in it into the bargain.

[Big Frank]

well done sellick for leading the way here :thumbsup:


Not a ****ing jot from them! :rolleyes:

[Captain Trips]

listen guys, if im being totally honest with you im getting abit bored listening to your facts and figures and your dates and deadlines with rules and regulations.

the long and short of it is that if your going to walk away from the club you have apparantley "supported" all your life then good for you.

just do it quietly. Because when you realise that the majority of the 2500 folk that signed that petition completely bottle it beacuse they signed it purely down to the fact they hate rangers (as i do as well by the way) and renew anyway and your left twiddling your thumbs on a saturday afternoon dont say i didnt warn you.

no point replying to this by the way cos im done.

Well it appears this thread is more important to you than you like to think, sure your focus is on Hibs, about 80-90% of the topics on front page are nothing to do with this issue, so I assume you are all over them or starting your own discussions?

If I am not interested in a topic I read it once and leave it, you cannot tell us enough how board you are with it which seems strange as you have spent a lot of time on it.

[Twa Cairpets]

right, so ive now been faced with possible scenarios comparing this situation to one in a casino and now rugby. that for me about sums it up.

im NOT trying to change anyones views on this, just a bit stumped as to why people are prepared to walk away from our club.

scottish football has been a complete farce for years im afraid. the sooner some folk here realise that the better.

Tell me, did the irony bypass hurt much?

Why has it been (it now appears) to be a farce, at least in part. Becuase of the antics of Rangers. If the actions taken support the continuance of the farce, then it defies logic to me to implicitly defend it by continuing to go to games. I'm not a Hibs fan to see an endless procession of silverware, but a big element of motivation of going is that sports sometimes updet the odds. When the odds become ludicrously stacked against everyone in favour of one (or two) teams, then it ceases to be worthwhile.

[Peevemor]

That's because all those situations were dealt with under the rules. That's all anybody is asking for now. What we're getting is a series of attempts to bend the rules or just make up new ones to keep some form of Hun club at the top of the Scottish game.

You're right that the game has been getting more and more ****ed for years, but this would be the straw that breaks the camel's back as far as I'm concerned. You're totally free to disagree, keep attending, do what you like, up to you. You're perfectly entitled to your different opinion.

Instead of changing the set up to suit the huns/newhuns, could it not be that the other clubs are using the current situation to push through changes (league reconstruction) that would otherwise have been vetoed by a powerful old firm?

[Hibbyradge]

fancy going into a wee bit more detail with that?

Well, since you ask so nicely...

Hibs last won the league in 1954 - 6 decades ago.

Last time we were second was 1975, 3 decades ago.

We've been relegated twice since then.

We've won the league cup 3 times in our history.

I don't need to mention the other cup.

In the 13 years since we last were last relegated, we've managed only 2 third place finishes and finished the bottom 6 five times.

If you think that's doing well, then I'm starting to understand why you're prepared to overlook the corruption in Scottish football.

[Big Frank]

Tell me, did the irony bypass hurt much?

Why has it been (it now appears) to be a farce, at least in part. Becuase of the antics of Rangers. If the actions taken support the continuance of the farce, then it defies logic to me to implicitly defend it by continuing to go to games. I'm not a Hibs fan to see an endless procession of silverware, but a big element of motivation of going is that sports sometimes updet the odds. When the odds become ludicrously stacked against everyone in favour of one (or two) teams, then it ceases to be worthwhile.

:tee hee:

[Dave-O]

Cant help thinking oor rod may have shot himself in the foot here, cause when the dust settles and the NO voters are triumphant there will be some SFA hierarchy who's positions will become untenable and rodders could have been in prime position as a man of integrity to take advantage, but it looks like he shot his bolt and he might not be the supertache we all think he is, he's certainly had enough time to rubbish the claims and as yet nowt. :agree:

[Moulin Yarns]

I've probably missed this appearing here in the time I went out for my lunch, but this is on the ESPN web site.


The Scottish Football League (SFL) has denied reports that it has reached any agreement over proposals for the 'newco' Rangers to play in the First Division.
As the uncertainty over Rangers' future continued to deepen, the SFL said it had not reached any deal with any other footballing body to enable the club to take a place in the second tier of Scottish football.
The SFL was responding to reports suggesting Charles Green's club would be placed into the First Division with immediate effect. In a statement, it said: "The Scottish Football League can confirm that no agreement has been reached between the SFL and any other body regarding the position of the Rangers 'newco' in the First Division. Consultation will continue to take place, primarily with our clubs, as previously advised."

[Spike Mandela]

More analysis of the SFL proposal document.......

http://wingsland.podgamer.com/the-lead-parachute/

[Moulin Yarns]

I notice from the Poll at the top of this thread that the poster known as 'Blueisthecolour' has cast his vote :greengrin

[Seveno]

Personally, I think that it is time to calm down at wait to see what happens. The most likely thing is that the Hun are going to self-destruct in any case.

Let's concentrate on backing our Club for the new season. If PF does not have the funds then he is going to find it that much harder to make the progress we all want. And there is only one way that he can get funds - through sales of STs and money at the gate.

[Callum_62]

More analysis of the SFL proposal document.......

http://wingsland.podgamer.com/the-lead-parachute/

:agree: the whole proposal is bonkers

[Jim44]

The Scottish Football League can confirm that no agreement has been reached between the SFL and any other body regarding the position of the Rangers 'newco' in the First Division. Consultation will continue to take place, primarily with our clubs, as previously advised.

Yes we know that no decision has been taken. The problem is that the decision boils down to the option of two courses of action, both of which are unacceptable. They're using ambiguous words to take the heat out of the situation. The numpties are saying, 'we haven't decided which of the two evils we will decide on.'

[Twa Cairpets]

More analysis of the SFL proposal document.......

http://wingsland.podgamer.com/the-lead-parachute/

That's an excellent review of the "document" (which grows worse every time I read it).

It looks like someone has issed the bullet points from a Doncasted led "brainstorming session", where no idea is considered stupid but ultimately some - incontrovertibly - are.

[Moulin Yarns]

The Scottish Football League can confirm that no agreement has been reached between the SFL and any other body regarding the position of the Rangers 'newco' in the First Division. Consultation will continue to take place, primarily with our clubs, as previously advised.

Yes we know that no decision has been taken. The problem is that the decision boils down to the option of two courses of action, both of which are unacceptable. They're using ambiguous words to take the heat out of the situation. The numpties are saying, 'we haven't decided which of the two evils we will decide on.'

this was in response to the apparent stich up announced (leaked) to the press yesterday. And I think it answers the question on most of our lips, there is NO AGREEMENT to let New Rangers play in the SFL 1. If the noises coming from other clubs, particularly SFL ones, then it is not likely to happen.

[Spike Mandela]

More analysis of the SFL proposal document.......

http://wingsland.podgamer.com/the-lead-parachute/


and more analysis....................

http://scotslawthoughts.wordpress.com/2012/06/29/latest-plan-to-save-rangers-is-an-abdication-of-responsibility-by-the-football-authorities/#more-1353

So many people picking holes in it now.

[Jim44]

Sorry for being flippant but I can't help laughing at the double irony of the 'skanko' thread, which has a go at this thread, being sucked into this thread, The second irony is that his premise echoes the now legendary line - ' We don't do walking away.'

[Moulin Yarns]

2 o'clock approaches. Damn, beter get on with some work!!

I'll pop back in later, see if they're deid yet.

[dangermouse]

I'd just ask Rod to come out and tell us the truth and what's really going on. It's starting to get confusing for me. A wee statement from Rod would go a long way for me deciding what my Hibs future will be.

The Chairman made the point that the vote should proceed without any further delay and that Hibernian FC will vote against the share transfer. The resolution will fail if four other clubs vote against it or abstain. If as a result of the vote on 4 July the Rangers newco is not voted into the SPL then it will be for other bodies to decide if and at what level Rangers might be accommodated within Scottish football.

[HibbySpurs]

listen guys, if im being totally honest with you im getting abit bored listening to your facts and figures and your dates and deadlines with rules and regulations.

the long and short of it is that if your going to walk away from the club you have apparantley "supported" all your life then good for you.

just do it quietly. Because when you realise that the majority of the 2500 folk that signed that petition completely bottle it beacuse they signed it purely down to the fact they hate rangers (as i do as well by the way) and renew anyway and your left twiddling your thumbs on a saturday afternoon dont say i didnt warn you.

no point replying to this by the way cos im done.

I've read through a fair number of the posts since you made your inital comment Skanko and to an extent I'm in agreement with your inital post re getting behind Hibs.

I've made it clear that I am oppossed to TRFC being admitted to any league other than SFL3, however I am also very tired of the whole thing now (perhaps this is what the clubs/authorities are hoping for in generrating malaise with the situation:confused:).

Personally I wnat to spend the next four weeks reading about my team are preparing for the new season, how we're putting a (hopefully) new & exciting squad together that will be a vast improvement on the last couple of years and not the ongoing trials & tribulations of TRFC.

Whilst opposed ot their admission into SFL1, a decision has to be made and soon for the benefit of the game in allowing it to progress and move on. If that decision is to somehow wedge TRFC into SFL1 with the various sanctions AND the end of the 11-1 voting rule in the SPL (this is a major issue for me) then maybe it will still be a carve up/ bitter pill to swallow but at least we'll have closure.

Then we can get back to the business of supporting HFC without any circus sideshow from Glasgow and be chatting about this player comnig or going or whatever but at least we'll be back to talking about Hibs.

For those whos are voting that they are opposed and will no longer attend football I fully respect that decision and understand. I have voted as part of the other 25% who will not be happy but will still goto football.

GGTTH.

[RIP]

If the Newco doesn't find a home, how many other SPL clubs would we see going down the tubes through the permanent loss of Huncome?

I reckon


Killie
St Mirren
Motherwell - haven't they been bust already?



Stewart Milne is talking tough but the Dons must be pretty close to administration too, despite their recent cost-cutting?

[ginger_rice]

I notice from the Poll at the top of this thread that the poster known as 'Blueisthecolour' has cast his vote :greengrin

:faf:

I wondered who the 1 vote was.

[Moulin Yarns]

:faf:

I wondered who the 1 vote was.

He's been very quiet of late, does anybody know which hospital he has been admitted to? I want to pay him a visit and give him a bunch of (sour) grapes.

[Saorsa]

Given the standard of people at the top that have been involved with running the game in Scotland for years it's hardly surprising we are where we are now. Scottish fitba is full of myopic, self serving gravy train riders who dinnae give a **** about anything or anybody but themselves.

[LancashireHibby]

If the Newco doesn't find a home, how many other SPL clubs would we see going down the tubes through the permanent loss of Huncome?

I reckon


Killie
St Mirren
Motherwell - haven't they been bust already?



Stewart Milne is talking tough but the Dons must be pretty close to administration too, despite their recent cost-cutting?

They will survive, they just have to cut their cloth. Posts like that don't exactly help the cause of punishing the Huns though!

[alexedwards]

What a sorry sorry mess this is :rolleyes:

Now having to work and trying to get on and have a life, I haven't been able to keep up to speed with this fast moving and ever changing farce so I could be well off the mark but this is how i see it:

Yes Rangers have done wrong and so need to be punnished - SPL club chairmen come out and say they have listend and will vote NO to a newco but for me it was quite noticable the clubs that haven't said NO as of yet. Celtic, Lawells played a blinder here as by not sying anything he hasn't yet upset his own clubs support and also defused a possible public disorder catasrophy. Now the other noticable nay sayers are the small clubs in the greater Glasgow are, St.Mirren, Well and Killie. These are the three clubs who would suffer the most from a boycote of Old Firm fans.
It seems like Clubs are working together to best please their fans and defuse Gers fans anger.

Now this is where Sky enter the equation:
Yes we want to demote Gers/Sevco to the bottom and that is what should happen but we know Sky will rip up the contract so we propose 1st division as the solution.
We know this is wrong and SFL clubs know its wrong but i think that if we dont do this then Sky walks and Killie and Motherwell (at least) go to the wall overnight.
The banks will be using the Sky contract as insurance for their continued support of the clubs and without it they will pull the plug on the clubs.

So basically Sky have us over a barrell and we have somehow created a situation where SPL clubs are under so much pressure from the banks to keep the deal that we are now blackmailing SFL clubs into supporting Newco for 1st Div or else! If the SFL dont vote for it then SPL2 is created and the whole pyramid proposal and and hope and dreams of lower league sides die forever.

I genuinely think that Petrie and co would want to do exactly what we all want them to do but they fear if they do clubs will pay the ultimate price with the banks and so therefor they can't. Sadly by doing what is being proposed they could die a slower death, Petrie is caught between a rock and a hard place and feels he couldn't win no matter what he did.

It's my day off and i was going to drive through and get the new top but now i'm just totally scunnered with the whole sorry saga i just don't know what to do. What i do know is that i will neve subscribe to Sky but i also know that i could never walk away from Hibs. GGTTH

Sky publicly said nothing changes if Rangers are demoted - this ain't Sky. :cb

[speedy_gonzales]

if you guys want to stop supporting hibs over it then on you go. its you that will be the death of our club if you do so.good luck with that.

the long and short of it is that if your going to walk away from the club you have apparantley "supported" all your life then good for you.

I've posted very little about this whole situation. I'm just an average fan, not an uber type. I don't hate or loathe anyone or any team, I support Hibs due to family and geography(Pilrig) and wouldn't just walk away from Hibs.

However,

If the authorities or league chiefs do anything that 'allows' Rangers to walk, rejuvenated, back into a league other than the 3rd division I won't be back at Easter Road, or any other ground, what is the point?
I've already paid for next seasons ticket, it will remain at Easter Road unwanted, and no refund will be sought after. Hibs owe me nothing!

Some say the bile, the venom and the knifes are out because it's "Rangers", they are half right, it's because it's "Rangers" that are getting treated differently than so many others that went before them, like others have said, I can't imagine any other side being treated in a similar, favourable, way.

It scares me that I find it this easy to walk away, maybe my version of right-wrong is so clear to me!

[marinello59]

If the Newco doesn't find a home, how many other SPL clubs would we see going down the tubes through the permanent loss of Huncome?

I reckon


Killie
St Mirren
Motherwell - haven't they been bust already?



Stewart Milne is talking tough but the Dons must be pretty close to administration too, despite their recent cost-cutting?

Does it matter to anybody here? Sporting integrity will have been served. :devil:

[GreenCastle]

More analysis of the SFL proposal document.......

http://wingsland.podgamer.com/the-lead-parachute/

:top marks

The claims about 16 million etc are nonsense

[Jim44]

They will survive, they just have to cut their cloth. Posts like that don't exactly help the cause of punishing the Huns though!

Your bang on the nail here. Whatever happens to them, there is going to be a complete overhaul in and rationalisation of football club income and expenditure. All clubs (Celtic to a lesser degree) are going to suffer and 'will cut their cloth accordingly'. Wages will drop and the clubs that do best will be those who can wheel and deal on a very low budget. Only one thing is certain - Rangers and Celtic will still be streets ahead in every department.

[ginger_rice]

Just heard a spokesperson (chairman?) for Stenhousemuir on Central FM stating that there would be no benefit for his club being in the same division as Newco FC I didn't catch it all but it appeared to be something to do with the added income being balanced out by extra expenditure in hosting them at Ochilview.

Not quite sure where he is coming from, as I'd no idea there was an alternative plan to parachute them into SFL2!!

Has me wondering though, if this is the view of SFL2 and SFL3 teams, then it could be that they will get voted into SFL1 after all.

[Newry Hibs]

It's quite possible that any club could be relegated (in 'normal' previous years excluding OF) and survive. One argument put forward by Hun apologists was this very point and someone (on a radio show I think) asked when was the last club that went bust after it got relegated.

[Sylar]

If any club fails to adapt accordingly to the loss of the Rangers income, hell mend them :agree:

[Part/Time Supporter]

Just heard a spokesperson (chairman?) for Stenhousemuir on Central FM stating that there would be no benefit for his club being in the same division as Newco FC I didn't catch it all but it appeared to be something to do with the added income being balanced out by extra expenditure in hosting them at Ochilview.

Not quite sure where he is coming from, as I'd no idea there was an alternative plan to parachute them into SFL2!!

Has me wondering though, if this is the view of SFL2 and SFL3 teams, then it could be that they will get voted into SFL1 after all.

If those teams perceive no financial benefit from the plan they will probably vote against it because they are being exposed to relegation from SFL3 to non-league.

[JohnStephens91]

Annan Athletic, Elgin City and Stirling Albion have all replied to my e-mail I sent to all 30 SFL clubs. The Annan chairman gave the most cohesive response:


Last night we held a meeting at our club, I cannot share the output with you as I'd prefer to share that, in the first instance, with the other 29 SFL clubs on Tuesday at Hampden. What I will say however is I have deep admiration for the resolve shown by the fans that are looking for sporting integrity to be achieved.

Hopefully we can all keep the pressure up on the fight for integrity, it is better than rolling over and accepting defeat.

[JeMeSouviens]

Edit: Newry Hibs beat me to it.

[Twa Cairpets]

Im hoping someone on here can shed some light on this for me, as it has me baffled. Now i dont want anyone having a go at me, ive explained myself and my reasons already and no matter what, my season tickets will be paid as normal. Well, they would have been...
Me and the old boy decided at the tail end of last season, it was time for a move. Weve sat in MFP for 21 seasons, times have changed, and we want to see our success from a different viewpoint. I want to stay in the main stand, just nearere the centre, or towards the copland. Anyway, phone up the ticket office and explained the situation to the guy, he explained that this season theyre notntaking requests to move seat, and you can only apply when they go on public sale. "whys that" i asked him, "i have no idea" was the reply. Anyone know why this is? With the greatest of respect to anyone hoping to become a new season ticket holder this year, and believe me we'll need every one of you, surely my loyalty should count for something. Not including the extra tickets, away games etc, 21 seasons x 2 season tickets is a fair whack. Have i not earned the right to atleast get first refusal? I couldnt even get a request put on my account, the guy hung up on me when i told him that was the f****** stupidest thing ive ever heard, and i dont blame him to be fair. But can anyone shed any light on this? Anyone help out? Or, even, anyone giving up 2 tickets in said area?
I know we've plenty more important things to worry about just now and i wont make a big issue of it, but i want beltin seats!

Dont worry son, you'll have your pick of the seats when Annan Athletic and East Stirling come calling

[The Harp Awakes]

and more analysis....................

http://scotslawthoughts.wordpress.com/2012/06/29/latest-plan-to-save-rangers-is-an-abdication-of-responsibility-by-the-football-authorities/#more-1353

So many people picking holes in it now.

A really interesting angle on the SFL proposal, which pretty much leaves the document in tatters.

One of the most significant points for me is the possibility that the proposal breaches the Bribery Act 2010. Did some training on this Act recently and I can see where the writer is coming from.

[HibbySpurs]

BEING A DIRECTOR:

Whilst we're busy villifying and deriding the board of Hibs & other clubs for apparently pandering to allowing TRFC into SFL1, I'd just like to point out (out of common interest) the real dilema these people are now in with regards to the current situation: I have pasted a brief summary of the main legal & statutory duties of a director of any Ltd or Plc in the UK (obviously this applies to all football clubs registered with companies house):

Main Legal / Statutory Duties

Some of the key legal responsibilities you will have as a company director include:

- You must complete and submit your Annual Return (Form AR01) to Companies House each year.
- You must inform Companies House if any of your company or personnel details change at any time (e.g. changes to address / name / share capital). You can submit most of these changes online via WebFiling.
- Your company must abide by all prevailing employment, health & safety, and company laws and regulations.
- You must always act in the best interests of your shareholders.
- The company directors must not enrich themselves to the detriment of the company.

You will note I have underlined and put in bold the second bottom duty as I think this is the real dilema they now face, the obligation is NOT to the businesses customers but to it's shareholders and to me this means that the director must secure the business as a viable entity therby protecting the shareholders investments in that entity.

Boards of SPL clubs therefore (IMVHO) are really stuck between a rock and a hard place here:
Kick TRFC to SFL3 and there are major financial ramifications which could cause the business to become insolvent and they have therefore failed in this duty.
Have TRFC placed in SFL1 and run the risk of alienating the fans (customers) which could have serious consequences financially as well and again possible insovency and again they've failed in this duty.

This situation is lose/lose for the directors of clubs as they cant on the face of it balance their legal obligation as a business with that of being a football club whose life blood is it's supporters?

My personal opinion is that these guys are desperately trying to balance these duties but are struggling to do so.

The above are just thoughts and not necessarily correct (legally) nor does it mean I support TRFC being placed in SFL1 (said that before).

Anyone else have any thoughts on this?

[hibs0666]

If the Newco doesn't find a home, how many other SPL clubs would we see going down the tubes through the permanent loss of Huncome?

I reckon


Killie
St Mirren
Motherwell - haven't they been bust already?



Stewart Milne is talking tough but the Dons must be pretty close to administration too, despite their recent cost-cutting?

The issue is the model by which Scottish football clubs have run themselves over the past 20 years has all of a sudden become unsustainable. The SFL document shows a desperate desire to cling onto that old model but it is unlikely to work. We are now firmly in the social media era and clubs now need to work with, rather than talk at, their customers. If clubs embrace a new model of working then they have a fighting chance of thriving. Failure to adapt will most definitely see clubs disappear.

[ginger_rice]

Annan Athletic, Elgin City and Stirling Albion have all replied to my e-mail I sent to all 30 SFL clubs. The Annan chairman gave the most cohesive response:



Hopefully we can all keep the pressure up on the fight for integrity, it is better than rolling over and accepting defeat.

I'm a part owner of Stirling Albion wonder if that will give me a say :greengrin

[HotJumBalaya]

If the Newco doesn't find a home, how many other SPL clubs would we see going down the tubes through the permanent loss of Huncome?

I reckon

Killie
St Mirren
Motherwell - haven't they been bust already?

Stewart Milne is talking tough but the Dons must be pretty close to administration too, despite their recent cost-cutting?

Undoubtedly all teams will be finiancially affected, but on the upside with the reduced budgets there will hopefully be more home grown tallent at ours and other scottish clubs. So maybe that will cause an upturn in our national sides fortunes....once harry potter gets his marching orders of course.

[carnoustiehibee]

Hopefully we can all keep the pressure up on the fight for integrity, it is better than rolling over and accepting defeat.

The annoying thing is the fans and other clubs shouldn't have to fight for the integrity of Scottish football, the fact that we've all had to shows how corrupt it is in the first place.

[Twa Cairpets]

Just in case you ever feel any sympathy towards the plight of the Hun, more from that repository of wit, repartee and wisdom that is Rangers Media Bear's Den.


Yeah **** these rotten *******s but are people seriously just wanting the 3rd division to watch Scottish football fall apart? I agree it is the right thing to do, work our way up from the bottom but lets face it, they can't afford to put us there so I say we accept it, then the quicker we can get back to where we belong, the very top. And gloat over those taig ****s with the knowledge the 2 titles they won mean **** all.


for once in my life the tarriers aren't the most important enemy we have

once we have danced on the grave of the diddy clubs then we can focus on the beggars. But as we have seen recently the combined diddy clubs are a bigger threat to us than that mob


...Scottish football needs us, end of story. And as much as I would laugh if several of the Diddy clubs went to the wall, I take greater pleasure in ****ing them on the pitch like we always do


I think we should just accept div1 and ignore the diddys in the passing as we collect number 55. UNLESS, they come up with a typical taig-like sanction ie stripping titles. Which I must admit is a very real possibility, hence this 'waive the right to appeal' pish

On the other hand I have some hope Mr Green will be able to work so we come away with a fine or something, which quite frankly is worth it if it means only waiting a year to get a shot at all those ****my *******s in the SPL

[Twa Cairpets]

[B][U]
...Boards of SPL clubs therefore (IMVHO) are really stuck between a rock and a hard place here:
Kick TRFC to SFL3 and there are major financial ramifications which could cause the business to become insolvent and they have therefore failed in this duty.
Have TRFC placed in SFL1 and run the risk of alienating the fans (customers) which could have serious consequences financially as well and again possible insovency and again they've failed in this duty.

This situation is lose/lose for the directors of clubs as they cant on the face of it balance their legal obligation as a business with that of being a football club whose life blood is it's supporters?

Even it comes down to straight maths, the sum is simple. Very short term gain < catastrophic long term loss and demise.
If acting on behalf of the shareholders results in the choice between potential short term difficulties and the certain death of the club in 2-3 years, then its not a difficult decision

[JimBHibees]

Maybe this supposed proposal is known by the SPL clubs to be certain to fail so that they can say to the more educated simpletons at Ibrox (well the three of them anyway :greengrin) that at least they tried to get them back to SPL as quick as possible. An attempt at appeasement of the hordes.

[Caversham Green]

BEING A DIRECTOR:

Whilst we're busy villifying and deriding the board of Hibs & other clubs for apparently pandering to allowing TRFC into SFL1, I'd just like to point out (out of common interest) the real dilema these people are now in with regards to the current situation: I have pasted a brief summary of the main legal & statutory duties of a director of any Ltd or Plc in the UK (obviously this applies to all football clubs registered with companies house):

Main Legal / Statutory Duties

Some of the key legal responsibilities you will have as a company director include:

- You must complete and submit your Annual Return (Form AR01) to Companies House each year.
- You must inform Companies House if any of your company or personnel details change at any time (e.g. changes to address / name / share capital). You can submit most of these changes online via WebFiling.
- Your company must abide by all prevailing employment, health & safety, and company laws and regulations.
- You must always act in the best interests of your shareholders.
- The company directors must not enrich themselves to the detriment of the company.

You will note I have underlined and put in bold the second bottom duty as I think this is the real dilema they now face, the obligation is NOT to the businesses customers but to it's shareholders and to me this means that the director must secure the business as a viable entity therby protecting the shareholders investments in that entity.

Boards of SPL clubs therefore (IMVHO) are really stuck between a rock and a hard place here:
Kick TRFC to SFL3 and there are major financial ramifications which could cause the business to become insolvent and they have therefore failed in this duty.
Have TRFC placed in SFL1 and run the risk of alienating the fans (customers) which could have serious consequences financially as well and again possible insovency and again they've failed in this duty.
This situation is lose/lose for the directors of clubs as they cant on the face of it balance their legal obligation as a business with that of being a football club whose life blood is it's supporters?

My personal opinion is that these guys are desperately trying to balance these duties but are struggling to do so.

The above are just thoughts and not necessarily correct (legally) nor does it mean I support TRFC being placed in SFL1 (said that before).

Anyone else have any thoughts on this?

It does seem like a dilemma, but when you consider it in more detail it becomes clearer (IMHO of course).

The best interests of the shareholders are not always financial. That is particularly so in an environment like Scottish football, where very few club shareholders are interested in making any financial gains out of their 'investment'. Their motives are generally emotional - they simply want to see their football club be the best it can possibly be and that costs money rather than making it. On top of that in the vast majority of clubs the directors are usually the shareholders as well, or if they aren't they are under the direct control of the majority shareholders (as in the case of Hibs and Hearts) so they are bound to act in their own best interests, whatever those may be.

Finally, a claim for a breach of that regulation could only be brought by the shareholders and I doubt if there's a club in Scotland where the shareholders would raise such a claim for the reasons given above.

The directors undoubtedly do have a real problem on their hands, particularly if the loss of revenues as a result of Rangers' demise threatens the future of their own club, but they also need to recognise that bending to RFC's will could
destroy their core support and hack off some of the same shareholders whose interests they are supposed to be looking after. Once they recognise that damage will be done either way they might as well do the right thing.

[cabbageandribs1875]

I notice from the Poll at the top of this thread that the poster known as 'Blueisthecolour' has cast his vote :greengrin


and then there were two

[JohnStephens91]

Dear whom it may concern,

I could not find a specific contact but I am very worried at the corruption hiding in plain sight in Scottish football. Rangers were recently liquidated and there has of course been a great deal of bending of rules to accommodate a club who had cheated their way to success.

Other Scottish teams such as Livingston and Gretna fell foul of the same financial plight as Rangers FC and were punished in accordance to the rules. Now the same rules do not apparently apply to Rangers and their new company (Newco) who will only be relegated one division below.

Smaller clubs are being threatened with not being allowed into a new league which will be formed if the proposals are not accepted, and these are coming from high ranking officials in the Scottish game. Fans of all other 41 SPL and SFL clubs fear for future of the game in the Scotland if the Newco are not punished suitably.

Will UEFA be leading an investigation into this corruption that is rife throughout the Scottish game as one club is receiving preferential treatment over all of the other clubs in the Scottish game.

Yours sincerely,
John Stephens

Hopefully I am not the only one attempting to put any kind of pressure on any of the ridiculous proposals being put forward.

[Part/Time Supporter]

It does seem like a dilemma, but when you consider it in more detail it becomes clearer (IMHO of course).

The best interests of the shareholders are not always financial. That is particularly so in an environment like Scottish football, where very few club shareholders are interested in making any financial gains out of their 'investment'. Their motives are generally emotional - they simply want to see their football club be the best it can possibly be and that costs money rather than making it. On top of that in the vast majority of clubs the directors are usually the shareholders as well, or if they aren't they are under the direct control of the majority shareholders (as in the case of Hibs and Hearts) so they are bound to act in their own best interests, whatever those may be.

Finally, a claim for a breach of that regulation could only be brought by the shareholders and I doubt if there's a club in Scotland where the shareholders would raise such a claim for the reasons given above.

The directors undoubtedly do have a real problem on their hands, particularly if the loss of revenues as a result of Rangers' demise threatens the future of their own club, but they also need to recognise that bending to RFC's will could destroy their core support and hack off some of the same shareholders whose interests they are supposed to be looking after. Once they recognise that damage will be done either way they might as well do the right thing.

:agree:

One of the minority shareholders in Aberdeen said he would call for a club EGM if Milne voted for newco.

[JohnStephens91]

My e-mail to FIFA,


Dear Fifa officials,

I am seriously concerned for the vitality of the game in Scotland due to the fiasco and constant rule bending to accommodate a new company (Newco) and after the death of Rangers Football Club.

Neil Doncaster, head of the SPL and several SFA officials have issued a threat to SFL clubs indicating that they accept proposals to allow Newco to join the First Division as opposed to the Third Division, the bottom tier of Scottish football. Gretna and Livingston were relegated this far down due to their financial problems, however Newco Rangers will not be.

Fans of every Scottish team have seen scaremongering tactics resonating from the very top of our football ladder and have also seen rules being broken to make sure that Newco Rangers have a soft landing. This amounts to cheating and I have no doubt it is also corruption as other clubs are being blackmailed by high ranking officials.

I can only hope that Fifa will have a look at this as fans of all the 41 teams in the SPL and SFL believe that something should be done.

Yours sincerely,
John Stephens

Anyone got any other suggestions for who to contact?

[joe breezy]

Hopefully I am not the only one attempting to put any kind of pressure on any of the ridiculous proposals being put forward.

I'll send a similar email - thanks for the template

[joe breezy]

My e-mail to FIFA,



Anyone got any other suggestions for who to contact?

They had a financial fair play guy called Declan so he would have been ideal but he's resigned now.

[JohnStephens91]

I'll send a similar email - thanks for the template

My sheer rage is driving me through all of this, feel free to get equally as angry! :aok:

[Caversham Green]

If Scottish football has been depending on an institutionally corrupt club like Rangers for survival then it deserves to perish.

The authorities recognised three years ago that the game had problems, spent time and money on the McLeish report and then proceeded to do absolutely sod all until Rangers got found out. Then they still did sod all until it was nearly too late and now they're running around like blue-arsed chickens finding new ways to do and say exactly the wrong things.

The fundamental changes the game needs is now being forced upon them and if that destroys some clubs so be it - harsh on the individual clubs, but the hardest-learned lessons are the best-remembered.

Scottish football needs to be re-invented - rip it up and start again.

[HibbySpurs]

Even it comes down to straight maths, the sum is simple. Very short term gain < catastrophic long term loss and demise.
If acting on behalf of the shareholders results in the choice between potential short term difficulties and the certain death of the club in 2-3 years, then its not a difficult decision

Agree that surely the "long term" business point of view has to be the decisive factor and therefore your statement is correct.
I just think that club directors are trying to forage around and find an answer that tries to do everything all at once. I think that is an impossible ask and no matter what happens they are going to have some serious issues to address when the fallout from this occurs.

In the case of the Hibs board I do sympathise to a degree. Our club has been well run as a business with it's long term security paramount in the boards strategy. Sadly this has led to a short term (hopefully) decline in the actual product offered to it's customers. I think it's a tad unfair that now these guys are being faced with this horrible dilema through no real fault of their own.

I wouldnt want to be in their shoes right now for all the tea in China, in fact I think I'd rather be CEO of Barclays Bank (then again....)

As a supporter of football I want TRFC placed in the very bottom tier of Scottish football but I can see the dilema this causes ours (& other boards) in terms of securing their clubs long term financial viability and therefore being able to discharge their duties as company directors.

Still want them papped into SFL3 mind but can see the problems this is causing the clubs.

[The Green Goblin]

so, if Rangers get to stay in the SPL or get to go to the 1st division are you going to stop supporting Hibs and going to Easter Road?

Yes.

Here's a question for YOU:

In just over a year's time, when the newly promoted, now debt-free, "Newco" team (having avoided paying 92,000,000 GBP in tax, plus untold other amounts to other creditors/businesses and having fielded illegally paid players to win titles/cups/european places in every game over almost the last 20 years) play their first SPL game of the season at ER and their nazi-saluting, sectarian-song-singing "fans" are celebrating the team pumping us silly, will you be at all bothered? Or will the thought "ach well, at least I still support Hibs" keep you warm?

:cb

[JohnStephens91]

Of 18,625 Scotsman readers who have expressed an opinion in a poll on Sevco's place in the game, 18,522 believe Sevco should start in SFL3

[green glory]

The Pars say no to Newco in SFL1.

https://twitter.com/tyronestv/status/218714210258010112

[green glory]

If this is true, and the SFA have given then till today to apply for a license, maybe Greeny has no plans to run a football club?

https://twitter.com/janelewissport/status/218718848801701888

[joe breezy]

Of 18,625 Scotsman readers who have expressed an opinion in a poll on Sevco's place in the game, 18,522 believe Sevco should start in SFL3

Probably because the poll doesn't have a 'juniors' option - I don't think they should waltz onto Division 3

[bingo70]

If this is true, and the SFA have given then till today to apply for a license, maybe Greeny has no plans to run a football club?

https://twitter.com/janelewissport/status/218718848801701888

is that the wifey that presents the sport on scotland today or reporting scotland?

[Twa Cairpets]

The Pars say no to Newco in SFL1.

https://twitter.com/tyronestv/status/218714210258010112

I cant cut and paste the text, but heres a link (http://www.dafc.co.uk/articles/20120629/dafc-board-statement-on-revised-sfasplsfl-proposals_2208030_2827302) to the pars statement.

I think it kind of defines "unequivocal".

I'm now relaxing again - Der Hun are back to being solidly f*****

[green glory]

is that the wifey that presents the sport on scotland today or reporting scotland?

Scotland today.

[greenginger]

For these propsals to be passed by the SPL, ie the passing over of £1 million of TV revenue to the SFL should require a Special Resolution (90% approval) as it is a variation to Section C of the SPL Rules which cover financial affairs of the League.

Has this been confirmed or is Doncaster going to have approved by a majority or other fiddle.

[Sunny1875]

Agree with this. If it had been any other team but Rangers, the majority of people threatening to never go back wouldn't even bother. It's just that there is such hatred towards them on here that people want them gone.

I couldn't care less if they're in Division 1 or Division 3, as long as Hibs are doing well.


I know, been searching for a 500 page thread for when it happened to gretna and dundee and livvy but im struggling to find one somehow.....................

[Saorsa]

I cant cut and paste the text, but heres a link (http://www.dafc.co.uk/articles/20120629/dafc-board-statement-on-revised-sfasplsfl-proposals_2208030_2827302) to the pars statement.

I think it kind of defines "unequivocal".

I'm now relaxing again - Der Hun are back to being solidly f*****well done the Pars :top marks

[HFC 0-7]

I know, been searching for a 500 page thread for when it happened to gretna and dundee and livvy but im struggling to find one somehow.....................


Were those teams liquidated and reformed as a newco?

[JohnStephens91]

Alex Thomson: Just had an extraordinary conversation with a senior Hampden insider. They're inundated with angry fans demanding integrity. Scottish football fanpower called the SPL bluff over R return. Will the same thing unfold over the Division 1 rule-book re-write?

[Seveno]

I'll send a similar email - thanks for the template


is that the wifey that presents the sport on scotland today or reporting scotland?

She reported it on the Radio Scotland news bulletin just after 4pm today.

[Captain Trips]

This is quite a unique situation Scotland is on the brink of being the laughing stock of football if Newco end up anywhere bar Division 3 on the other hand they have the chance to show by applying the rules no matter who it is they we have chance to come out of this with respect for our game.

[The Green Goblin]

I know, been searching for a 500 page thread for when it happened to gretna and dundee and livvy but im struggling to find one somehow.....................



The rules were properly applied in those cases. That's why.

[bingo70]

She reported it on the Radio Scotland news bulletin just after 4pm today.

So am i right in saying the Newco Huns haven't even applied to join any league yet and pressumably they need to by 5 or they're completely oot?

[green glory]

So am i right in saying the Newco Huns haven't even applied to join any league yet and pressumably they need to by 5 or they're completely oot?

Quite possibly yes. If what has been claimed on Hunmedia that Charles Green said to John Brown "I'll turn this place to dust" is true, it would explain him not bothering applying for a license.

Would loooooove that to be true lol.

Maybe Tesco have made Greeny an offer he couldn't refuse lol.

[--------]

Were those teams liquidated and reformed as a newco?



Don't think so.

The closest parallel I can think of is the case of Airdrieonians, who went completely out of existence.

Jim Ballantyne and a group of supporters applied for entry to SFL3 but were refused - Gretna got the place.

Ballantyne and Co then bought out the terminally-sick Clydebank FC, moved that club to Airdrie, re-named it Airdrie United, adopted the old Airdrie 'Diamonds' red-and-white strip, and set up to play in SFL2.

TBH, I'm surprised that no one's proposed doing that on Rangers behalf this time around - buy out some struggling SFL (or SPL!) team, and just move the whole concern back to Ibrox.

Mind you, if they tried THAT and got away with it, the ordure wouldn't half collide with the air-conditioning and no mistake ...

[jgl07]

Were those teams liquidated and reformed as a newco?

Gretna certainly were.

They joined the East of Scotland League.

[stokesmessiah]

Apparently Sevco have not lodged their documents with the SFA to apply for membership, the deadline was today.

[--------]

Gretna certainly were.

They joined the East of Scotland League.


Livi were, IIRC, within a day of liquidation when a deal was sorted out to keep the club in existence.

Financial irregularities on the part of the previous owners (that's being as economical and charitable a description as I can give of what was going on) meant they were relegated to SFL3.

[Hibbyradge]

I know, been searching for a 500 page thread for when it happened to gretna and dundee and livvy but im struggling to find one somehow.....................

Were those teams allowed to parachute debt free into Div 1?

[jdships]

If any club fails to adapt accordingly to the loss of the Rangers income, hell mend them :agree:

Absolutely correct IMO
If any business , regardless who or what , loses a contract they must become more prudent until they find other ways of making up the ' lost revenue '
There may well be problems short term but in the future these clubs will hopefully become self sufficient and therefore stronger .
This is a massive opportunity to ' cleanse' Scottish football : lets hope those in charge don't ' bottle it '
:thumbsup:

[Hibbyradge]

Popular wisdom has it that there are far too many clubs in Scotland...

[Viva_Palmeiras]

My sheer rage is driving me through all of this, feel free to get equally as angry! :aok:

https://twitter.com/celticnetwork11/status/218467047238156288

Apols for the Celtc link (retweet by splfansurveys) but suggestions for email addresses are there

[franks]

Don't think so.

The closest parallel I can think of is the case of Airdrieonians, who went completely out of existence.

Jim Ballantyne and a group of supporters applied for entry to SFL3 but were refused - Gretna got the place.

Ballantyne and Co then bought out the terminally-sick Clydebank FC, moved that club to Airdrie, re-named it Airdrie United, adopted the old Airdrie 'Diamonds' red-and-white strip, and set up to play in SFL2.

TBH, I'm surprised that no one's proposed doing that on Rangers behalf this time around - buy out some struggling SFL (or SPL!) team, and just move the whole concern back to Ibrox.

Mind you, if they tried THAT and got away with it, the ordure wouldn't half collide with the air-conditioning and no mistake ...

The rules were changed after the Airdrie buy out to stop it happening again.

Mind you rules are there to be broken.

[--------]

Popular wisdom has it that there are far too many clubs in Scotland...


Yup.

Time for a bit of fire and brimstone. Take 'em down in flames.

"Blow, winds, and crack your cheeks! rage! blow!
You cataracts and hurricanoes, spout
Till you have drenched our steeples, drowned the cocks!
You sulphurous and thought-executing fires,
Vaunt-couriers to oak-cleaving thunderbolts,
Singe my white head! And thou, all-shaking thunder,
Strike flat the thick rotundity o' the world!
Crack nature's moulds, all germens spill at once
That make ingrateful man!"

... as King Lear might put it.

(Not totally sure about line 3, mind. "Thick rotundity" is an obvious allusion to Jim Jefferies.)

[jdships]

Popular wisdom has it that there are far too many clubs in Scotland...

Agree with that in as much that Scotland doesn't have the population to support four leagues of professional football.
OK the vast majority below SPL are part time but taking the operating costs into consideration are there any clubs in Div two and three that are really anything more than ' community clubs' ?
Also we have to remember the Junior sides who are competing for support .

Difficult question really to answer - $ 64000 question , methinks :greengrin

[--------]

The rules were changed after the Airdrie buy out to stop it happening again.

Mind you rules are there to be broken.

:wtf:
Rules? There are rules? :shocked:

[joe breezy]

alex thomson ‏@alextomo
SFL powerpoint document should be met with utter contempt by all decent football fans - senior source in Hampden Pk tells ‪#c4news‬


@alextomo
Source says this is nothing less than a crude takeover bid by Scottish Premier League for Football League...

@alextomo
Senior Hampden source tells #c4news cannot see how RFC were allowed to play last season at all. Doesn't believe they met finance criteria...

[--------]

Were those teams allowed to parachute debt free into Div 1?


I don't think so.

[EuanH78]

Annan Athletic, Elgin City and Stirling Albion have all replied to my e-mail I sent to all 30 SFL clubs. The Annan chairman gave the most cohesive response:



Hopefully we can all keep the pressure up on the fight for integrity, it is better than rolling over and accepting defeat.

Can you PM your mailing list? I think I would like to offer my support to the SFL clubs as well.

[gramskiwood]

alex thomson
‏@alextomo

Follow
SFL powerpoint document should be met with utter contempt by all decent football fans – senior source in Hampden Pk tells ‪#c4news‬

[jgl07]

Popular wisdom has it that there are far too many clubs in Scotland...

One of the most meaningless statements ever. Like most popular wisdom it is total rubbish.

How do you define "Too many clubs"?

Has England got too many teams? They have four senior Divisions below the EPL all operate on a national basis. Then there are several layers of regionally based leagues. There are never any suggestions that there are too many clubs.

What will be gained by 'eliminating' certain clubs?

I will answer that one by saying 'absolutely nothing'.

We had suggestions to to merge all four Fife clubs into one. That would go down really well. There were similar suggestions for Dundee, Ayrshire, Renfrewshire, Lanarkshire, etc. Hibs were nearly the victim of such a 'merger' in Edinburgh.

The only thing wrong with the lower orders in the SPL is the lack of pyramid structure to allow persistent poor performers such as East Stirlingshire to hang around and keep back ambitious teams. Inverness Caledonian were denied entry to the SFL for years because the teams did not want to travel to the Highlands. Gala have similarly been kept out.

Get a decent two division national system with a regionalized pyramid below and most of the problems will solved.

[Jim44]

So am i right in saying the Newco Huns haven't even applied to join any league yet and pressumably they need to by 5 or they're completely oot?

This was reported on the BBC News but let's not forget that this is a rule which, as in the case of Jambo eligibility, will be selectivly applied. They probably give them a week's grace to concoct something 'acceptable'. :rolleyes:

[007 Mickey Weir]

If Scottish football has been depending on an institutionally corrupt club like Rangers for survival then it deserves to perish.

The authorities recognised three years ago that the game had problems, spent time and money on the McLeish report and then proceeded to do absolutely sod all until Rangers got found out. Then they still did sod all until it was nearly too late and now they're running around like blue-arsed chickens finding new ways to do and say exactly the wrong things.

The fundamental changes the game needs is now being forced upon them and if that destroys some clubs so be it - harsh on the individual clubs, but the hardest-learned lessons are the best-remembered.

Scottish football needs to be re-invented - rip it up and start again.

Totally agree!!!

[green glory]

Alex Thomson's info is explosive. SPL dissolution round the corner hopefully.

[JeMeSouviens]

alex thomson
‏@alextomo

Follow
SFL powerpoint document should be met with utter contempt by all decent football fans – senior source in Hampden Pk tells ‪#c4news‬

No worries on that score!

[Kaiser1962]

TBH, I'm surprised that no one's proposed doing that on Rangers behalf this time around - buy out some struggling SFL (or SPL!) team, and just move the whole concern back to Ibrox.



The simple answer is that loophole was closed Doddie. The Huns made indiscreet enquiries about the possibility of buying St. Mirren before Xmas before they figured out that particular cunning plan, similar to every other one since, was against the current rules.

[Hibbyradge]

One of the most meaningless statements ever. Like most popular wisdom it is total rubbish.

How do you define "Too many clubs"?

Has England got too many teams? They have four senior Divisions below the EPL all operate on a national basis. Then there are several layers of regionally based leagues. There are never any suggestions that there are too many clubs.

What will be gained by 'eliminating' certain clubs?

I will answer that one by saying 'absolutely nothing'.

We had suggestions to to merge all four Fife clubs into one. That would go down really well. There were similar suggestions for Dundee, Ayrshire, Renfrewshire, Lanarkshire, etc. Hibs were nearly the victim of such a 'merger' in Edinburgh.

The only thing wrong with the lower orders in the SPL is the lack of pyramid structure to allow persistent poor performers such as East Stirlingshire to hang around and keep back ambitious teams. Inverness Caledonian were denied entry to the SFL for years because the teams did not want to travel to the Highlands. Gala have similarly been kept out.

Get a decent two division national system with a regionalized pyramid below and most of the problems will solved.

:faf:

Calm down dear. It's only a debating point.

[lapsedhibee]

alex thomson
‏@alextomo
SFL powerpoint document should be met with utter contempt by all decent football fans – senior source in Hampden Pk tells ‪#c4news‬

I am now very worried. I have a store of fine red and succulent lamb waiting for the day when HunFC/TheHunFC are finally no more, but have just realised that I have absolutely no idea what the appropriate steps are for dancing on a grave, and there may not now be time to learn them. What can I do in the short time available? :boo hoo:

[JeMeSouviens]

Aberdeen, Dunfermline, Raith and Morton statements all excellent. :top marks

Take note, Hibs!

[WindyMiller]

Don't think so.

The closest parallel I can think of is the case of Airdrieonians, who went completely out of existence.

Jim Ballantyne and a group of supporters applied for entry to SFL3 but were refused - Gretna got the place.

Ballantyne and Co then bought out the terminally-sick Clydebank FC, moved that club to Airdrie, re-named it Airdrie United, adopted the old Airdrie 'Diamonds' red-and-white strip, and set up to play in SFL2.

TBH, I'm surprised that no one's proposed doing that on Rangers behalf this time around - buy out some struggling SFL (or SPL!) team, and just move the whole concern back to Ibrox.

Mind you, if they tried THAT and got away with it, the ordure wouldn't half collide with the air-conditioning and no mistake ...


Cowdenbeath Rangers?

[greenginger]

Cowdenbeath Rangers?


Or the Blue-Nosed Brazil ? :greengrin

[jdships]

One of the most meaningless statements ever. Like most popular wisdom it is total rubbish.

How do you define "Too many clubs"?

Has England got too many teams? They have four senior Divisions below the EPL all operate on a national basis. Then there are several layers of regionally based leagues. There are never any suggestions that there are too many clubs.

What will be gained by 'eliminating' certain clubs?

I will answer that one by saying 'absolutely nothing'.

We had suggestions to to merge all four Fife clubs into one. That would go down really well. There were similar suggestions for Dundee, Ayrshire, Renfrewshire, Lanarkshire, etc. Hibs were nearly the victim of such a 'merger' in Edinburgh.

The only thing wrong with the lower orders in the SPL is the lack of pyramid structure to allow persistent poor performers such as East Stirlingshire to hang around and keep back ambitious teams. Inverness Caledonian were denied entry to the SFL for years because the teams did not want to travel to the Highlands. Gala have similarly been kept out.

Get a decent two division national system with a regionalized pyramid below and most of the problems will solved.


You make it sound so simplistic !
The OP I think was looking at the overall picture
This is about economics not sentiment and many of Div 3 clubs depend on the Directors putting their hands in their pockets on a regular basis to help the club simply survive.
I have friends involved with the running of three Div2/3 clubs and it is simply hand to mouth .
OK reorganisation is an option but is surely a short term fix
There are so many alternative hobbies/pastimes available that people are not drawn to football as they were in the 1960's
I played , early 50's , for a club now in Div 3 and we could look for 4/5000 for home games now it is 4/450

Sorry but can't see the problem be solved with the number of clubs we have at present .

[Sunny1875]

Try turning the question around, with feelings running so high amongst the fans of ALL SPL. If the correct and proper decision is not taken.

Will the HUNCOME be enough to sustain the clubs when their own fans are not turning up. If attendances drop by say even 10% will the Huncome make up for this shortfall. Considering teams currently hope to entertain Rangers twice a season even if the whole ground was given over to them this would not make up for the 10% shortfall.

[gramskiwood]

http://blogs.channel4.com/alex-thomsons-view/scottish-footballs-chance-saloon/2091 :aok:

[whiskyhibby]

Cowdenbeath Rangers?

A match made in heaven :-£)


---
I am here: http://tapatalk.com/map.php?cqe11p

[WindyMiller]

Or the Blue-Nosed Brazil ? :greengrin


:aok:


I did note that Donald Findlay was named as one of those supporting the Bombed Brown bid.

[joe breezy]

http://blogs.channel4.com/alex-thomsons-view/scottish-footballs-chance-saloon/2091


Let us start with something we can all agree on. The latest plan for Ibrox as a football venue shows just how late the hour really is in Scottish football’s last chance saloon. There is near-panic in the area. Immediate, urgent desperation measures and to hell with the rule-books.

Take Scottish Football League chief executive David Longmuir, not because he’s any worse or better or more or less compromised by crisis than any other of the blazers, but because his u-turning sums up the panic.


17 June: “There would be no provision for any newco (new company) Rangers to go into the First Division rather than the Third Division.”

28 June: “The SFL is trying to address the question of whether we can accommodate a solution to the Rangers FC scenario.”

Light regulation

Let us remember where all this began. Not with football but with big capitalism out of control. Remember David Cameron on the banks when he said what was needed for our banking system was:

“…light regulation and low regulation…”

And look what happened from RBS and The Shred to this week’s Bollingergate fiasco at Barclays and probably now quite a few other banks. Because were given too free a rein, were too under-regulated, too under-governed and too under-supervised, they decided to ignore the rules.

What a surprise.

So too in big sport. It just happens to be a club called Rangers – or at least it was – the final new name appears as yet uncertain. Just like the banks they thought they could ignore the rules. Just like the banks they sowed legacy-mines and time-bombs all over the park and now, one by one, they detonate.

High noon

So the once mighty Rangers over the next week perhaps, face high noon at Hampden with no certainty where the club will play although it will not be in the Scottish Premier League.

And the response from authorities charged with imposing regulation on a sport where regulation appears to have been flouted?

Incinerate the rule-book.

The Scottish Football League (SFL), Scottish Football Association and Scottish Premier League perceive Rangers as a cash cow and given their mighty support they’re right. They now consider their only option to force Rangers back into the highest point possible in their system – Division 1 – now the SPL clubs have surprised them by calling their bluff and voting no to having them back in the top flight and expelling them from the SPL as they are now pledged to do next week (seven clubs having already said no).

Let’s look at the document sent to the SFL clubs designed to force them to vote Rangers into Division 1. This is about three things when you pare it down:

1. money (business)

2. sporting integrity (morality)

3. fans (customers)

There are 16 references in the SFL document to money and business. There are four references to sporting integrity and morality in any sense. There are just two references to fans. I think ‘redemption’ gets a message. ‘Punishment’ – unless I’ve missed it – does not.

Resistance to change

Of course the authorities should consider business – but it should consider profoundly the fact that ignoring everything in the pursuit of ‘business’ is precisely what destroyed Rangers FC and created the current crisis.

This should tell us something about where the SFL is coming from and the really critical phrase is contained in the section where they are selling the Division 1 option to the SFL clubs. They call this:

“…a least-worse case financial scenario…”

Which is what the ‘deal’ or ‘threat’ is all about. Coupled with the added enticer that many Division 1 clubs in Scotland have long wanted the two-tier SPL now being punted to accommodate the Rangers newco.

But hang on a minute. Go back to the top of the document and there’s a shrill plea for change, boldness, a chance to escape the fear of change which, it is implied, has done so much to damage Scottish football. “Why does resistance to change in football exist?” it says. Then it concludes:

1. “Fear of the unknown”- yet what follows is all about fear of the unknown. The document then proceeds to play on fears of the unknown if Rangers is not placed as high as possible in the leagues ie in Division 1. It is dripping with financial fears.

2. “Lack of involvement” – yet there’s been zero meaningful involvement of the clubs, beyond being summoned to high noon at Hampden and absolutely no meaningful involvement of the customers – the fans – who let’s face it played such a large part in calling the bluff on the plan to shoehorn Rangers straight back into the SPL by pressuring chairmen into actually considering things like morality and integrity

3. “Lack of information” – yet what kind of information have fans of clubs had on all this? Where are the scary figures plucked from to justify placing Rangers in Division 1? Where are the models? Where are the costings? Details? They get one paltry line-graph and some scary sloganeering.

4. “Threat to power, or status” – yet if that is considered an obstacle to change – why produce a manifesto to enshrine the power and status of a wholly toxic football brand to the highest degree possible within the league structure?

5. “No perceived benefits” – yet the Division 3 option for Rangers is perceived in wholly negative terms. Most fans see real benefits of this, not least Rangers fans themselves, whilst accepting inevitable financial pain for all. So how come football authorities either don’t perceive these benefits or have ignored them?

6 “Unless behaviour changes, nothing changes” – somewhat ironic given this is a manifesto to manage utter catastrophe by means of the most minimal change possible. Inaction, negligence and continuing cronyism are part of what has brought Scottish football to its knees. The behaviour proposed here is to do as little as possible to rock a boat that was plainly sinking.

Bizarre document

So there it is. A bizarre document the tone of which is near-panic, which sets out to destroy all the supposed ambition set out at its top. Extraordinary prose for extraordinary times.

The fans – the customers – of course lie forgotten. Everyone says most fans want Rangers in Division 3 and most Rangers fans (for various reasons) seem to want that too. They are not listened to. They are not heard.

Like a desperate child the football authorities survey the car-crash they’ve presided over and wring their hands. Shocked by the SPL clubs calling their bluff they try desperately to get the nearest thing possible to the SPL with their SPL- lite.

The fans aren’t daft and they’ll not buy this, nor should the clubs – even those who’ve long hankered for the two-tier SPL.

It should all be about real change, real opportunities for clubs who are not toxic and for Rangers to have the chance – genuinely, credibly, cleanly – to put this behind them, do their time and come good as they surely will, with any deserved bragging rights earned the hard way in coming years.

Don’t take my word – pop up the A9 to the new hotbed of European football in Scotland – Perth.

[ballengeich]

Le Havre have now cancelled Rangers' pre-season friendly in France. It had been specially arranged to mark both clubs reaching 140 years:greengrin

[lyonhibs]

If any club fails to adapt accordingly to the loss of the Rangers income, hell mend them :agree:

This :agree:

Survival of the fittest, and if these clubs can't take the necessary steps to survive without 2 visits from the Huns every year, then they deserve everything they get.

[--------]

Popular wisdom has it that there are far too many clubs in Scotland...


One of the most meaningless statements ever. Like most popular wisdom it is total rubbish.

How do you define "Too many clubs"?

Has England got too many teams? They have four senior Divisions below the EPL all operate on a national basis. Then there are several layers of regionally based leagues. There are never any suggestions that there are too many clubs.

What will be gained by 'eliminating' certain clubs?

I will answer that one by saying 'absolutely nothing'.

We had suggestions to to merge all four Fife clubs into one. That would go down really well. There were similar suggestions for Dundee, Ayrshire, Renfrewshire, Lanarkshire, etc. Hibs were nearly the victim of such a 'merger' in Edinburgh.

The only thing wrong with the lower orders in the SPL is the lack of pyramid structure to allow persistent poor performers such as East Stirlingshire to hang around and keep back ambitious teams. Inverness Caledonian were denied entry to the SFL for years because the teams did not want to travel to the Highlands. Gala have similarly been kept out.

Get a decent two division national system with a regionalized pyramid below and most of the problems will solved.



Within an hour or so's drive of my house there are these clubs: Airdrie United, Albion Rovers, Hamilton Accies, Motherwell, Clyde, Falkirk, Livingston, and Hearts. I think I could get to Celtic Park within the hour, too. I'm not sure about the wee teams in the Falkirk area, but there are three, and it wouldn't take much more than the hour to get to Stenhousemuir, Alloa, or East Stirling.

That's 30% of the SPL/SFL clubs all within easy driving distance.

That doesn't take in the local Junior clubs, some of whom compare very well to the clubs from the lower divisions of the SFL.

How many of these clubs can be considered as seriously viable 'senior' football clubs?

So Mr Radge has a point.

But so have you - local rivalries dictate that any attempt to merge neighbouring football clubs to strengthen them is doomed to failure and will only alienate the supporters of the 'wee' clubs considered undeserving of survival.

I think your suggestion of a two-tier SPL with regional leagues feeding up into it might very well be the answer. However, the income from TV and sponsorship deriving from TV coverage (not the clubs' own sponsorship deals but sponsorship deals relating to the League as a whole) would have to be spread around a lot more fairly than in the past.

The League and FA should not exist to finance Celtic and Rangers in their pathetic attempts on European glory. They should exist to foster and prosper the sport in Scotland as a whole.

[HUTCHYHIBBY]

I know, been searching for a 500 page thread for when it happened to gretna and dundee and livvy but im struggling to find one somehow.....................

Are you for real? The rules that were in place at the time were enforced against each of these clubs, but, are not enforced against Whatever they are called because they are worth too much, its the lack of consistency that bothers most people.

[joe breezy]

"Rangers Football Club have been informed by Le Havre that they no longer wish to play us as part of their 140th anniversary celebrations on Thursday July 12. Unfortunately the match will now not take place."

:lolrangers::lolrangers::lolrangers:

[GreenCastle]

If the Newco doesn't find a home, how many other SPL clubs would we see going down the tubes through the permanent loss of Huncome?

I reckon

Killie
St Mirren
Motherwell - haven't they been bust already?

Stewart Milne is talking tough but the Dons must be pretty close to administration too, despite their recent cost-cutting?

It's heading for meltdown if they get into Div 1 - if they don't find a home other teams will survive. Just media scare tactics and a myth.

Teams get hardly any of the prize money / tv money anyway and we need a more competitive league so if more fair will hopefully bring more fans in!

[Viva_Palmeiras]

"Rangers Football Club have been informed by Le Havre that they no longer wish to play us as part of their 140th anniversary celebrations on Thursday July 12. Unfortunately the match will now not take place."

:lolrangers::lolrangers::lolrangers:

The (in)glorious 12th. Tarantino is interested in the film rights ;)

[Emerald]

The (in)glorious 12th. Tarantino is interested in the film rights ;)

Did anyone listen to Gordon Smith on SSN. He makes my blood boil. Id love to see his face when axe finaly comes down on the huns.

[Hibernia&Alba]

Rangers withdraw from pre-season friendly in France on July 12th. They're realised it clashes with their annual celebrations in Larkhall :wink:

[Coco Bryce]

Rangers withdraw from pre-season friendly in France on July 12th. They're realised it clashes with their annual celebrations in Larkhall :wink:

Annual celebrations? They've only been going a fortnight.

[HibeeMG]

Scottish FA ‏@Scottish_FA (https://twitter.com/Scottish_FA)
We have received, via our lawyers, Sevco Scotland info pack relevant to membership application. It will be reviewed in early course

[BT58]

the season ticket holders who are holding back their cash are holding back our signings......the hibernian board:wink::wink::wink:
bt

[At The Edge]

Taken from another forum, a Raith Rovers fans reply to his email to the club....

'Thanks for your email. Our position is clear.....we don't do bullying or intimidation; we dont succumb to blackmail either.
Meeting of SFL clubs this coming Tuesday......after which things will either implode totally or a clearer picture will emerge.
Keep the faith meantime. I am sure there are many like-minded clubs with a view similar to ourselves.
Regards

Turnbull Hutton'

:thumbsup:

[Spike Mandela]

Yup.

Time for a bit of fire and brimstone. Take 'em down in flames.

"Blow, winds, and crack your cheeks! rage! blow!
You cataracts and hurricanoes, spout
Till you have drenched our steeples, drowned the cocks!
You sulphurous and thought-executing fires,
Vaunt-couriers to oak-cleaving thunderbolts,
Singe my white head! And thou, all-shaking thunder,
Strike flat the thick rotundity o' the world!
Crack nature's moulds, all germens spill at once
That make ingrateful man!"

... as King Lear might put it.

(Not totally sure about line 3, mind. "Thick rotundity" is an obvious allusion to Jim Jefferies.)

Nothing should surprise me but this thread is quite possibly the last place I expected to read Shakespeare.:cb

[greenginger]

Nothing should surprise me but this thread is quite possibly the last place I expected to read Shakespeare.:cb


Next up, Club 12 th Night. :greengrin

[mrdependable]

Next up, Club 12 th Night. :greengrin
:top marks

It has all the makings of a Shakespearean play, a club brought down by hubris, treating those around with them with contempt until in the final act they realise too late that they need their support.
Definitely a comedy not a tragedy!

[Renfrew_Hibby]

Don't know if it's been posted but here's the take on it from across the pond.
http://bleacherreport.com/articles/1240521-scottish-soccer-takes-another-step-closer-to-the-professional-wrestling-ring

[Mibbes Aye]

Nothing should surprise me but this thread is quite possibly the last place I expected to read Shakespeare.:cb


Next up, Club 12 th Night. :greengrin

:greengrin

RFC's long, self-inflicted demise is surely The Comedy of Errors :agree:

[Mibbes Aye]

:greengrin

RFC's long, self-inflicted demise is surely The Comedy of Errors :agree:

Or "All's Well That Ends SFL (Three)".............

[Minder]

Division one or Division 3,
That is the questiion,
Tis nobler to start again in 3,
Or screw integrity and go in one.
Where shalll the hun play,
will they be back next May?

[MyJo]

Division one or Division 3,
That is the questiion,
Tis nobler to start again in 3,
Or screw integrity and go in one.
Where shalll the hun play,
will they be back next May?

O sevco sevco, wherefore art thou sevco
Deny thy history and refuse thy name
Or if thou wilt not Be but excluded you huns
And you'll no longer be a football team

[ancient hibee]

3 divisions of 14-Rangers to start in Div.3-sorted.

[Col2]

the season ticket holders who are holding back their cash are holding back our signings......the hibernian board:wink::wink::wink:
bt

Good news is the chairman is using the extra time to front a new sevco rescue mission while alienating virtually all Hibs fans. Hibs focus on season tickets and are dismissive of PATG punters but the irony is not only will the season ticket gap not be resolved, the punters that PATG will not bother nex season.

[ancient hibee]

Good news is the chairman is using the extra time to front a new sevco rescue mission while alienating virtually all Hibs fans. Hibs focus on season tickets and are dismissive of PATG punters but the irony is not only will the season ticket gap not be resolved, the punters that PATG will not bother nex season.

Hibs supporters are forming a new drama queen section for all the hysterics on this site.The reason Petrie saw Green should be obvious to anyone.The plan has been hatched by the SFA-Ogilvie is barred from anything to do with Rangers therefore Petrie as Vice President is at the meeting to be part of the SFA group with the officials.

[CallumLaidlaw]

3 divisions of 14-Rangers to start in Div.3-sorted.

What about a 16 team SPL, 14 team division 1 and 12 team division 2?

[ancient hibee]

What about a 16 team SPL, 14 team division 1 and 12 team division 2?

16 too many for me especially if one is not Rangers.Too many meaningless games.

[Hibbyradge]

:greengrin

RFC's long, self-inflicted demise is surely The Comedy of Errors :agree:


Or "All's Well That Ends SFL (Three)".............

Quoting yourself now, Mibbes?

Egotastic!

[Mibbes Aye]

Quoting yourself now, Mibbes?

Egotastic!

:greengrin

Constant as the northern star :agree:

[HUTCHYHIBBY]

Don't know if it's been posted but here's the take on it from across the pond.
http://bleacherreport.com/articles/1240521-scottish-soccer-takes-another-step-closer-to-the-professional-wrestling-ring

Sums the situation up quite succinctly.

[tony]

http://www.scottishfootballblog.co.uk/2012/06/rangers-newco-cowardly-compromise.html

thought this was a fairly good summary too.......

[Saorsa]

Don't know if it's been posted but here's the take on it from across the pond.
http://bleacherreport.com/articles/1240521-scottish-soccer-takes-another-step-closer-to-the-professional-wrestling-ringIt disnae have much mair credibility than wrestling now, these people running (ruining) it will make sure it ends up with far less. :bitchy:

[Saorsa]

http://www.scottishfootballblog.co.uk/2012/06/rangers-newco-cowardly-compromise.html

thought this was a fairly good summary too.......bang on :agree:

[magpie1892]

Le Havre have now cancelled Rangers' pre-season friendly in France. It had been specially arranged to mark both clubs reaching 140 years:greengrin

Hun prick I went to school with arranged time off, booked hotel and ferry.

Beautiful.

[Dashing Bob S]

It disnae have much mair credibility than wrestling now, these people running (ruining) it will make sure it ends up with far less. :bitchy:

The entire approach to this hinges on the nonsense lie: "what's good for Rangers (or Celtic) is good for the game in Scotland." Therefore, those club(s) are to given special treatment at any cost; even in the face of being caught cheating and swindling, the objective is restore 'normal' business as soon as possible. The reality is that those clubs and their sectarian-led duopoly has been slowly strangling the game for years, a decline the Huns have exacerbated by applying the tourniquet of theft and deceit to this shabby state of affairs.

People who do not want to take part in this circus of bigotry have been drifting away from Scottish football for years. If they finally want to destroy the game, losing the bulk of the support of every other club, will do more damage to those clubs than the loss of a few thousand Huns in each ground twice a season.

I don't think they believe the majority of Scottish football fans when they say that if they rubber stamp this WWF league, then it's game over and the kids get their EPL/La Liga/Serie A tops and two trips to the continent a year and a SKY package instead of this ***** we're looking for almost any excuse to ditch anyway.

The stupidest thing you can do when you're drinking in the last chance saloon is to start playing Russian roulette, and that is exactly what the balloons who purport to run our game are doing.

[Hibbyradge]

The entire approach to this hinges on the nonsense lie: "what's good for Rangers (or Celtic) is good for the game in Scotland." Therefore, those club(s) are to given special treatment at any cost; even in the face of being caught cheating and swindling, the objective is restore 'normal' business as soon as possible. The reality is that those clubs and their sectarian-led duopoly has been slowly strangling the game for years, a decline the Huns have exacerbated by applying the tourniquet of theft and deceit to this shabby state of affairs.

People who do not want to take part in this circus of bigotry have been drifting away from Scottish football for years. If they finally want to destroy the game, losing the bulk of the support of every other club, will do more damage to those clubs than the loss of a few thousand Huns in each ground twice a season.

I don't think they believe the majority of Scottish football fans when they say that if they rubber stamp this WWF league, then it's game over and the kids get their EPL/La Liga/Serie A tops and two trips to the continent a year and a SKY package instead of this ***** we're looking for almost any excuse to ditch anyway.

The stupidest thing you can do when you're drinking in the last chance saloon is to start playing Russian roulette, and that is exactly what the balloons who purport to run our game are doing.

Beautifully put.

[whiskyhibby]

The entire approach to this hinges on the nonsense lie: "what's good for Rangers (or Celtic) is good for the game in Scotland." Therefore, those club(s) are to given special treatment at any cost; even in the face of being caught cheating and swindling, the objective is restore 'normal' business as soon as possible. The reality is that those clubs and their sectarian-led duopoly has been slowly strangling the game for years, a decline the Huns have exacerbated by applying the tourniquet of theft and deceit to this shabby state of affairs.

People who do not want to take part in this circus of bigotry have been drifting away from Scottish football for years. If they finally want to destroy the game, losing the bulk of the support of every other club, will do more damage to those clubs than the loss of a few thousand Huns in each ground twice a season.

I don't think they believe the majority of Scottish football fans when they say that if they rubber stamp this WWF league, then it's game over and the kids get their EPL/La Liga/Serie A tops and two trips to the continent a year and a SKY package instead of this ***** we're looking for almost any excuse to ditch anyway.

The stupidest thing you can do when you're drinking in the last chance saloon is to start playing Russian roulette, and that is exactly what the balloons who purport to run our game are doing.

Well said that man!!!

[Saorsa]

The entire approach to this hinges on the nonsense lie: "what's good for Rangers (or Celtic) is good for the game in Scotland." Therefore, those club(s) are to given special treatment at any cost; even in the face of being caught cheating and swindling, the objective is restore 'normal' business as soon as possible. The reality is that those clubs and their sectarian-led duopoly has been slowly strangling the game for years, a decline the Huns have exacerbated by applying the tourniquet of theft and deceit to this shabby state of affairs.

People who do not want to take part in this circus of bigotry have been drifting away from Scottish football for years. If they finally want to destroy the game, losing the bulk of the support of every other club, will do more damage to those clubs than the loss of a few thousand Huns in each ground twice a season.

I don't think they believe the majority of Scottish football fans when they say that if they rubber stamp this WWF league, then it's game over and the kids get their EPL/La Liga/Serie A tops and two trips to the continent a year and a SKY package instead of this ***** we're looking for almost any excuse to ditch anyway.

The stupidest thing you can do when you're drinking in the last chance saloon is to start playing Russian roulette, and that is exactly what the balloons who purport to run our game are doing.:top marks

[calmac12000]

I think whats needed is a radical new approach to football organisation and finance in this country. To that end I propose that all senior clubs in Scotland agree a compulsory levee on gate and any other receipts to go towards ensuring the re-establishment of Rangers as the truly dominant force in Scottish football.
:wink:

[Cabbage East]

We should cancel the SPL programme for next season and each SPL club should play Rangers once and pay them a fee for the privilege. Then next season we should plan properly so that Rangers can be strong, apparently that's what's best for Scottish football.

Rangers - keeping us all afloat since 1690.