Generic Sevco / Rangers meltdown thread

[Diclonius]

Wasn't the newco vote supposed to be today?

What happened to that?

[Gingertosser]

My understanding is that Mark Daly only released about 15-20% of what he knows in the last TV programme.

Some info was held back for legal reasons (phone hacking), but some has been held back to put a larger spanner in the works at a later date...that will be after the SPL do SFA against the double contracts :wink:

Tweets coming from RangersTaxCase are on the ball !!!

[calmac12000]

Oh dear you could never have predicted that move could you now. That is if your a partisan of the "Big Hoose", however to many it will appear the typically cynical tactic we have come to expect from this mob i.e. shows that Rangers people are back in charge, almost if they have never been away. Cue the demands to have their cake and eat it i.e. we are nothing to do with anything the bad man/men have done, but at the same time we want to retain our history(well actually I don't think anyone else would soil themselves with it do you?). They do not want punished for any malfeasance, expect to step right back where they left off and of course the rest of us are to welcome them with outstretched arms. No doubt singing the Sash or other traditional anthem. The arrogance of all connected with Rangers is breathtaking, and there should be no way that they are allowed to practice such an obvious con trick

[sadtom]

So we've had the Whyte knights. The blue knights. The knights who say Ng. The Green knights. Now wattie turns up with The grey Knights. (or is it the blue cardie knights?).
Anyone else think they are waiting in Jason Orange to put in a bid? :-)

[ancienthibby]

Charles Green has confirmed he has completed the purchase of the business and assets of Rangers. @BBCSport (http://twitter.com/BBCSport) 2 minutes ago

[Spike Mandela]

Charles Green completes transfer of assets deal.......

http://www.rangers.co.uk/news/football-news/article/2811902

Now expect a Brian Kennedy/Paul Murray style press conference with Sir Walter Cheat.

[joe breezy]

The King of the EBTs is going to save the Gers :flag::flag::flag::flag:



Rangers Tax-Case ‏@rangerstaxcase

Rangers Tax-Case Rangers Tax-Case ‏@rangerstaxcase
Questions for Walter: Can you tell us in comprehensive detail about all payments you received through the EBT scheme?


Rangers Tax-Case Rangers Tax-Case ‏@rangerstaxcase
Questions for Walter: Can you tell us why those payments were made?


Rangers Tax-Case Rangers Tax-Case ‏@rangerstaxcase
Questions for Walter: Can you tell us when those payments were made?


Questions for Walter: And lastly- were you the Everton and/or Scotland manager at the time? i.e. long after you left RFC employment
Expand

http://z5.ifrm.com/5902/57/0/e5032433/e5032433.gif

[s.a.m]

Sky News Newsdesk‏@SkyNewsBreakCharles Green has completed purchase of the business and assets of Rangers

Chris McLaughlin‏@BBCchrismclaug
CG: the transfer of the business and assets to the newco has taken effect immediately. #Rangers (http://www.hibs.net/#!/search/%23Rangers)



So......where does that leave the voting shenanigans? (I'm possibly just being thick, and missing the obvious.) If everything has been transferred to the Newco, can they vote?

[green glory]

My understanding is that Mark Daly only released about 15-20% of what he knows in the last TV programme.

Some info was held back for legal reasons (phone hacking), but some has been held back to put a larger spanner in the works at a later date...that will be after the SPL do SFA against the double contracts :wink:

Tweets coming from RangersTaxCase are on the ball !!!

RTC have always intimated the 'nuclear' info they have will only be made known at a pertinent time. Maybe not long to wait, and hopefully it'll be sufficient to cause mayhem for the newco.

[marinello59]

Charles Green has confirmed he has completed the purchase of the business and assets of Rangers. @BBCSport (http://twitter.com/BBCSport) 2 minutes ago

Funny how quickly Duff and Phelps managed to move this one along isn't it?

[johnrebus]

So we've had the Whyte knights. The blue knights. The knights who say Ng. The Green knights. Now wattie turns up with The grey Knights. (or is it the blue cardie knights?).
Anyone else think they are waiting in Jason Orange to put in a bid? :-)


Why not?

Billy Ocean is said to be part of the Green consortium. (although he's a Celtic fan)

You just could not write this stuff.



:greengrin

[WindyMiller]

There are 12 SPL shares in existence - that doesn't change. One of those shares is held by Rangers FC and they are proposing to transfer that share to a company that has just or will soon be set up - you can obtain a company online in about an hour for a payment of £13 now - and the impending vote is to determine whether or not the current 12 holders of the shares approve the transfer. Rangers are entitled to vote as the current holders of a share in the same way that a prime minister is entitled to vote in a general election. If RFC disappeared before a newco was formed the share would revert to the SPL board to be offered to another club, probably Dundee subject to a similar vote of the remaining 11 clubs plus the SPL board, but the share would not cease to exist.


Surely after all the hoo ha about "fit and proper" persons, the chairmen can't be seen to vote on it until the deal is completed. Then the newco would apply for membership, the SPL would take 2 weeks to gather, the new owners would be known and the chairmen can vote.

By that time time the oldco wouldn't actually exist ( no stadium no ground etc.) and would not qualify as a member of the SPL and therefore be unable to vote.

[Paisley Hibby]

Charles Green has confirmed he has completed the purchase of the business and assets of Rangers. @BBCSport (http://twitter.com/BBCSport) 2 minutes ago

So now there's nothing to stop him selling it on to Wattie's mob? He could trouser a few million for his trouble and then walk away?

[Benny Brazil]

Charles Green has confirmed he has completed the purchase of the business and assets of Rangers. @BBCSport (http://twitter.com/BBCSport) 2 minutes ago

See this really hacks me off - how can his deal to buy them lock stock and barrel for 5.5m be allowed? Why arent the HMRC trying to get the assests seperated and sell them off seperately - surely now they get absolutely zero back from what they were due?

[johnrebus]

See this really hacks me off - how can his deal to buy them lock stock and barrel for 5.5m be allowed? Why arent the HMRC trying to get the assests seperated and sell them off seperately - surely now they get absolutely zero back from what they were due?


Can still be challenged in court.


:cb

[marinello59]

Sky News Newsdesk‏@SkyNewsBreakCharles Green has completed purchase of the business and assets of Rangers

Chris McLaughlin‏@BBCchrismclaug
CG: the transfer of the business and assets to the newco has taken effect immediately. #Rangers (http://www.hibs.net/#!/search/%23Rangers)



So......where does that leave the voting shenanigans? (I'm possibly just being thick, and missing the obvious.) If everything has been transferred to the Newco, can they vote?

No they can't as the oldco still has the SPL license. It makes no difference though as the oldco will vote yes anyway.

[krobertson12]

I've tried to keep up with everything thats happen today, but here's my take (and I might have missed a few things)

RFC are no more with the CVA rejection
Duff and Phelps/Greene are seen as the baddies
Walter Smith will now try and step in asking the money grabber Greene to step aside, so becoming the saviour.

I am actually all for Walter Smith coming in and sorting the deal (but I think Greene will shaft everyone unless the fans turn against him). My reason for this? I think Smith will accept the punishment of dropping down the league, out the cup for a few years and a massive fine. I also hope he will accept this quickly and settle the whole thing down! I get this from Smith's statement. He talks about hard times ahead regarding money. To me this screams that Smith and his party are willing to take the punishment, start from the bottom and live within their means.

If this was Hibs I'd be willing to accept 3rd division, cup ban, and a fine, but I would beg to drop the trasnfer ban. This way the club would look to restructure. No debt, players asked to take a wage cut to join newco or are free to find a new club, reduce costs accordingly, and beg the fans to support. Thats how I would have thought a respectable approach to the problem could be achieved. I hope Smith is thinking along the same lines.

For the record I want Rangers punished big time, but I also want the the situation resolved quickly so football can go back to normal!

[ancienthibby]

So now there's nothing to stop him selling it on to Wattie's mob? He could trouser a few million for his trouble and then walk away?

Highly likely, Paisley!

Just wait for the BigHoose residents to turn their vile on Green as they did to Wild Bill.

The Yorkie man will happily take another million or three for his pension fund, once he ups the ante!:greengrin

[Lungo--Drom]

Jason Orange? i don't think the Rangers fans would take that....
RAOFL :D

[CropleyWasGod]

Neck sticking out time here.

I am with Cav... I don't think the £5.5M is for the lock, stock and barrel. The CVA document clearly sets out the £5.5m payment as split between £200k for the exclusivity fee, and £5.3m for Intellectual Property Rights, Goodwill and Players' Contracts. There is no element allocated to Property.

http://www.rangers.co.uk/staticFiles/c9/b3/0,,5~177097,00.pdf Page 37

Also, the fact that the deal has been done so quickly suggests that no property was involved. Conveyancing, especially of 3 different properties, one of which has Listed status, another of which has Planning restrictions, would take a lot longer.

The question has to be asked.

[Part/Time Supporter]

Neck sticking out time here.

I am with Cav... I don't think the £5.5M is for the lock, stock and barrel. The CVA document clearly sets out the £5.5m payment as split between £200k for the exclusivity fee, and £5.3m for Intellectual Property Rights, Goodwill and Players' Contracts. There is no element allocated to Property.

http://www.rangers.co.uk/staticFiles/c9/b3/0,,5~177097,00.pdf Page 37

Also, the fact that the deal has been done so quickly suggests that no property was involved. Conveyancing, especially of 3 different properties, one of which has Listed status, another of which has Planning restrictions, would take a lot longer.

The question has to be asked.

There is also a n/a beside property under the CVA scenario.

Today's events are potentially disastrous for Rangers. Civil war is likely between Green (who now holds the assets and has paid £5.5M for them) and "Rangers people" and their friends in the media. All of which makes it much more difficult to get things in place to put up a serious bid to get in a league next season.

[CropleyWasGod]

There is also a n/a beside property under the CVA scenario.

Yeah, because the property was irrelevant to the CVA. The only time the property value comes into play is when there is a liquidation.

[Part/Time Supporter]

Yeah, because the property was irrelevant to the CVA. The only time the property value comes into play is when there is a liquidation.

The liquidation and newco scenarios mention a deduction of £600,000 due to SportScotland. This relates to the failure to adhere to the terms of a grant given for building Murray Park. Ergo I believe there must be a change in ownership of Murray Park from RFC (IA) to the newco.

[Paisley Hibby]

See this really hacks me off - how can his deal to buy them lock stock and barrel for 5.5m be allowed? Why arent the HMRC trying to get the assests seperated and sell them off seperately - surely now they get absolutely zero back from what they were due?

Me neither mate. I get the bit that HMRC did not want a CVA because that would have prevented them going after the real culprits. But as biggest creditor they held all the cards anyway? So why agree to the £5.5m sale in the event of the CVA failing - it was always going to fail?

[CropleyWasGod]

The liquidation and newco scenarios mention a deduction of £600,000 due to SportScotland. This relates to the failure to adhere to the terms of a grant given for building Murray Park. Ergo I believe there must be a change in ownership of Murray Park from RFC (IA) to the newco.

If that is the case, then the intangible assets, as I said above, are valued at £5.3m... and the fixed assets at £nil.

The notes to that statement talk about a "change of use" for Murray Park triggering the repayment to the SSC. If the football assets (ie the club) are now owned by another company, there is arguably a change of use. It is no longer used by that company (RFCIA) as a football training facility... it is used by another company (NewCo), and RFCIA merely own it, and allow NewCo to use it/lease it to them.

[Paisley Hibby]

Yeah, because the property was irrelevant to the CVA. The only time the property value comes into play is when there is a liquidation.

So does that means the Newco now has the property?

[CropleyWasGod]

So does that means the Newco now has the property?

I am suggesting that they don't. In fact, I would be surprised now if they do.

However, like I say, somebody has to ask the question.

[Brando7]

Charles Green says the newco have applied for a place in the SPL but surely there is no vacancy if the original Glasgow Rangers are still in the league?????????. Should the administrators not first resign from the SPL to create a vacancy for the new club? Obviously if they were to resign, or be expelled, they would quite rightly not be able to vote on their replacement???

[hibs0666]

There is also a n/a beside property under the CVA scenario.

Today's events are potentially disastrous for Rangers. Civil war is likely between Green (who now holds the assets and has paid £5.5M for them) and "Rangers people" and their friends in the media. All of which makes it much more difficult to get things in place to put up a serious bid to get in a league next season.

The is how it will play out:


Greeny boy will state he's in it for the long haul but has little or no dosh for working capital
huns want their heroes in place so will refuse to buy season tickets
Smith will offer Green less than 5 million to take a potentially disastrous investment off his hands as season ticket sales fail to materialise
Walter will come riding in on the white charger to pick up the pieces.


However, if Green recognises this scenario quickly enough he can walk away quickly with a wee wedge for his troubles as a pay-off from Smith.

However, with a bit of luck, these shenanigans will take weeks to play out.

[greenginger]

http://www.sportyou.es/blog/futbol/2012/06/14/el-glasgow-rangers-desaparece-416012.html


This Spanish site already has the Rangers in the 3rd division next season. Hope they are ahead of our media. :thumbsup:

[poolman]

Good article.......apologies if already posted


http://www.scotsman.com/sport/football/top-football-stories/tom-english-on-planet-charles-everything-is-somebody-else-s-fault-1-2352653

[Gus Fring]

STV are claiming that Green DOES on the Stadium and Training ground. http://sport.stv.tv/football/clubs/rangers/106284-charles-green-asks-spl-and-scottish-fa-to-transfer-rangers-memberships/

[CropleyWasGod]

STV are claiming that Green DOES on the Stadium and Training ground. http://sport.stv.tv/football/clubs/rangers/106284-charles-green-asks-spl-and-scottish-fa-to-transfer-rangers-memberships/

STV also said, earlier in this whole affair, that CW was taking VAT off players' wages. :rolleyes:

I wouldn't necessarily rely on them, in other words. They don't mention the Albion car park either.

[Captain Trips]

Rangers: Definitely not the smartest guys in the room.

[Caversham Green]

Surely after all the hoo ha about "fit and proper" persons, the chairmen can't be seen to vote on it until the deal is completed. Then the newco would apply for membership, the SPL would take 2 weeks to gather, the new owners would be known and the chairmen can vote.

By that time time the oldco wouldn't actually exist ( no stadium no ground etc.) and would not qualify as a member of the SPL and therefore be unable to vote.

The oldco will exist for some time yet - as CWG pointed out liquidations can take years to complete - it just won't have any assets. It will continue to be the SPL share owner until such time as a transfer is approved or it surrenders the share to the SPL board.

[Paisley Hibby]

I am suggesting that they don't. In fact, I would be surprised now if they do.

However, like I say, somebody has to ask the question.

Thanks CWG. I'd love you to be right but the property issue is so fundamental it must be covered somewhere else - or Greene's advisers have made the most enormous cock up...

[IFONLY]

Rangers latestLIVE (http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/scotland/18440161)Former manager Walter Smith leads a new bid to buy Rangers as the club decline to comment on speculation regarding manager Ally McCoist.

[HIBERNIAN-0762]

Who cares?, and anyway where's he getting all the money from?

[johnrebus]

STV are claiming that Green DOES on the Stadium and Training ground. http://sport.stv.tv/football/clubs/rangers/106284-charles-green-asks-spl-and-scottish-fa-to-transfer-rangers-memberships/


Going to get very messy now.

Over to you Wattie, are you just going to stand there and take this?


:take that

[CropleyWasGod]

Thanks CWG. I'd love you to be right but the property issue is so fundamental it must be covered somewhere else - or Greene's advisers have made the most enormous cock up...

I am sure that HMRC/BDO will be asking the relevant questions, even if STV aren't :rolleyes:

[IFONLY]

Who cares?, and anyway where's he getting all the money from?


I think a lot of people WILL care!!!!!!!

[Steve20]

It's too late. The guy Green already has bought the club.

[Golden Bear]

It's too late. The guy Green already has bought the club.

That's the news from the Beeb anyway.

You really wonder what is going on what with the timing of Walter's bid and the supposed imminent departure of Fat Ally.

[CropleyWasGod]

The oldco will exist for some time yet - as CWG pointed out liquidations can take years to complete - it just won't have any assets. It will continue to be the SPL share owner until such time as a transfer is approved or it surrenders the share to the SPL board.

What's your latest view on the "assets", Cav? Do you think the property is in there?

[Gus Fring]

Charles Green claimed that Ian Hart was a member of his consortium only for Ian Hart to flat out deny it and say he is actually supporting Walter Smith! Crazy!

[Spike Mandela]

Going to get very messy now.

Over to you Wattie, are you just going to stand there and take this?


:take that


He managed to take it for four months until the club he loves is liquidated.:cb

[Viva_Palmeiras]

All that were missing here is a seriously nasty hostile takeover bid. Has Spotty run out of puppets?

[johnrebus]

He managed to take it for four months until the club he loves is liquidated.:cb

Ach, give him a break. His wife only just woke him up.

:rolleyes:

[oxymoron]

This is just the start. It's clear to everyone that a 'clean' Rangers (Oxymoron I know!) that retains Ibrox and Murray Park will, in the medium term, be an investment worth considering.

I fully expect a significant amount of interest in securing the assets and goodwill and Green will be left well out of the picture. There is also an intersting prospect of rival newco's being set up, each purporting to be the new Rangers and each attempting to get a hold of the assets...the picture being painted is one of a complete package being sold to a single investor or group but I see nothing stopping one investor gettign a hold of Murray park, another one Ibrox but neither actually having an interest in running a football club, that may be left to a third (or fourth) party to do and provide the rental income for the new owners of the physical assets.

Considering the above scenario it's patently clear the £5.5m figure is bolloc*s and a sale on the open market (sealed bids for the different parts by a set deadline would be very interesting!) would provide signifcantly more to the creditors.

I think Green's moaning yesterday was driven by the realisation his moment had come and gone and the chance to fill his troosers with cash off the back of Rangers was gone.

Lastly I don't see how any of this can be resolved in time for the new season and I think there is a significant chance there will be no Rangers at all in Scottish football next year. Now that would be a real shame.

...Hey, keep me out of this - I was an innocent bystander enjoying the banter!

[down-the-slope]

The oldco will exist for some time yet - as CWG pointed out liquidations can take years to complete - it just won't have any assets. It will continue to be the SPL share owner until such time as a transfer is approved or it surrenders the share to the SPL board.

:aok: thanks Cav saved me posting as you have...

Question to think about...could the SPL share not be considered an asset? (potentially very valuable) as Any NewCo (Greens / Wattys etc) will want RFCIA to vote Yes for it...that surely has a 'value' :greengrin...presumably its D&P who have that Vote as they still Administer RFCIA and they should act in best interest of creditors....so......

[Spike Mandela]

I actually feel sorry for Charles Green now. The media love in with Sir Walter Cheat and Ally McCrook will allow these sneaks to let others take the heat through administration and liquidation then step in and buy the club at a snip. He's being shafted as much as the creditors.

[Phil D. Rolls]

I truly hope they can sort out this mess very quickly. Scottish football needs to know what is happening, as they have a fixture list to publish very quickly. It would be terrible if Glasgow Rangers couldn't say what is happening, as the league would need to know that the club is on a strong footing before making any decisions about them.

For Rangers not to know where they will be playing next season will surely be disastrous. They've been selling a new strip and everything - it's not like a new team could just put those strips with their iconic badge on, if they weren't the same people.

The alternative is to tell them to come back at such point as they are stable again, and let another team into the league. Moan The Spartans!

[Jim44]

This is becoming such a prolonged public mess that Rangers should face a further charge of bringing the game into disrepute.

[heretoday]

The gloves are off for a right keelie fight for supremacy in the midden!

[greenginger]

Charles Green says the newco have applied for a place in the SPL but surely there is no vacancy if the original Glasgow Rangers are still in the league?????????. Should the administrators not first resign from the SPL to create a vacancy for the new club? Obviously if they were to resign, or be expelled, they would quite rightly not be able to vote on their replacement???

Hope the New Club, ( not Newco ) has enclosed its 3 years certified accounts with the application or will Doncaster ignore the SPL rules again .

[Jim44]

I actually feel sorry for Charles Green now. The media love in with Sir Walter Cheat and Ally McCrook will allow these sneaks to let others take the heat through administration and liquidation then step in and buy the club at a snip. He's being shafted as much as the creditors.

Who's to say that the lot of them haven't stitched the whole thing between them?

[Hibees07]

This whole Walter Smith thingy really makes me boak.

They have sat on the sidelines awaiting the outcome of the CVA and now when Green & CO take the club through the process they try and turn the support against them so they can step in and get a debt free club on the cheap.

There are some seriously wealthy individuals backing Walter Smith and whilst there will be sanctions & possible embargo's etc I can see some serious money being pumped into the club and if the other SPL teams fail to throw them into the 3rd Division then I can see them coming straight back in and winning the title.

The thought of that happening after all the cheating & corruption that has gone would be bad enough, but the sheer gloating that would prevail from the hun masses would be stomach churning.

The other SPL clubs must for the sake of Scottish football vote NO to 'The Rangers Football Club' getting back in the SPL.

[bighairyfaeleith]

So we now have two rangers or one?

whose board does green sit on, just the newco?

does this mean the liquidators get the spl vote rather than duff and phelps?

[thefifer1959]

surely if the Rangers are a new co then they shouldn't have any vote on who replaces them in the league ( thats if they do go bye bye and other league chairmen don't vote with their wallets)

common sense should prevail with the meeting on who can vote on who comes up.


I think this meeting will be a stitch up and, Rangers will not go down, that way the SFA can go to the FIFA and say they wanted this and that but that the other chairmen wanted to keep them in the SPL for the so called invisible financial benifits to the other SPL clubs. (THEY SAID THEY CANT LIVE OR FUNCTION WITHOUT THE FINANCE FROM THE RANGERS GATE RECEIPTS)

Aberdeen fans ahve submitted paper work to their board saying that just another 300 season tickets will make up the lost revenue from Rangers if they go down.

[The Falcon]

Hope the New Club, ( not Newco ) has enclosed its 3 years certified accounts with the application or will Doncaster ignore the SPL rules again .

Do I recall seeing somewhere that Green's bid was dependant on the club retaining it's SPL status?

[Just Alf]

Ya know, the more I think about it the more I worry :-/

I defo want no rangers in the SPL next year but

Looking at what Watties saying he has a grand plan
Take the punishment, get into SFL 3 and make yer way back up, 3 year European ban doesn't even register.
During those years you'll make loads of cash from a loyal support so that when you do hit the SPL again your gonna win, then it's Europe and with the cash that's come in over the previous 3/4 years v's the relatively low outgoings your now in a position to spend big and remain within the new financial FairPlay rules.... Putting them top of the pile across Europe.

CWG or someone PLEASE tell me this is a crock of sh*t? ..... (nicely)

:-(

[s.a.m]

So we now have two rangers or one?

whose board does green sit on, just the newco?

does this mean the liquidators get the spl vote rather than duff and phelps?

:paranoid: Two. It's like a Dr Who episode: The Master is cloning them. New Murrays are being produced by the busload to take charge of these NewHun mini-pods. At some point (possibly on the 12th of July), they're all going to rip their masks off, and they're all going to look strangely like John Simms.....

[jonty]

:paranoid: Two. It's like a Dr Who episode: The Master is cloning them. New Murrays are being produced by the busload to take charge of these NewHun mini-pods. At some point (possibly on the 12th of July), they're all going to rip their masks off, and they're all going to look strangely like John Simms.....
:singing: There's only four Andy Gorams.....

[Onion]

This whole Walter Smith thingy really makes me boak.

They have sat on the sidelines awaiting the outcome of the CVA and now when Green & CO take the club through the process they try and turn the support against them so they can step in and get a debt free club on the cheap.

There are some seriously wealthy individuals backing Walter Smith and whilst there will be sanctions & possible embargo's etc I can see some serious money being pumped into the club and if the other SPL teams fail to throw them into the 3rd Division then I can see them coming straight back in and winning the title.

The thought of that happening after all the cheating & corruption that has gone would be bad enough, but the sheer gloating that would prevail from the hun masses would be stomach churning.

The other SPL clubs must for the sake of Scottish football vote NO to 'The Rangers Football Club' getting back in the SPL.

The analogy of the bully is evident. For years they've thrown their weight around, thick as two short planks, but still steal your dinner money without remorse. The head teacher (played by the SFA/SPL) is too scared ****less to tackle the problem, so it pervades. Finally, the victims have their opportunity to fix the bugger at long last. What will the 10 victims do ? Cower away sheepishly while the bully threatens them outside ?

So to the 10 chairmen who have an opportunity to do the right thing... I say....

Aye, fight and you may die. Run, and you'll live... at least a while. And dying in your beds, many years from now, would you be willin' to trade ALL the days, from this day to that, for one chance, just one chance, to come back here and tell the Huns that they may screw our clubs, but they'll never take... OUR SPORTING INTEGRITY ! :greengrin

[lapsedhibee]

...Hey, keep me out of this - I was an innocent bystander enjoying the banter!

:greengrin

[jabis]

:paranoid: Two. It's like a Dr Who episode: The Master is cloning them. New Murrays are being produced by the busload to take charge of these NewHun mini-pods. At some point (possibly on the 12th of July), they're all going to rip their masks off, and they're all going to look strangely like John Simms.....

strangely enough Sue,the episode of Dr Who that gave me the heebie geebies was the one(circa 1970)that involved a teddy bear,it climbed over the frontseat of a car,and strangled the driver.For a 6 inch bear,it scared the **** out of me.

aaaanyway.....the huns won't buy any season tickets till Green gives way to the soon to be sainted(:rolleyes:)Sir Walt.

[s.a.m]

strangely enough Sue,the episode of Dr Who that gave me the heebie geebies was the one(circa 1970)that involved a teddy bear,it climbed over the frontseat of a car,and strangled the driver.For a 6 inch bear,it scared the **** out of me.

aaaanyway.....the huns won't buy any season tickets till Green gives way to the soon to be sainted(:rolleyes:)Sir Walt.

:wink: ....teddy bear. 'nuff said.

[thefifer1959]

As it says on the tin

http://m.stv.tv/news/scotland/west-central/297387-rangers-to-go-into-administration/


Rangers have signed up there 1st new sponsor for new season in the SPL
http://www.robot-food.com/wp-content/uploads/2010/10/1001.png

[jgl07]

Do I recall seeing somewhere that Green's bid was dependant on the club retaining it's SPL status?

It was conditional on competing in all domestic competitions.

A Scottish Cup ban could scupper the deal.

What could force Green out is if the support fail to buy season tickets. They would run out of money very quick and open the way for Walter Smith.

[Jim44]

The natives overby are bolstered by the Walter Smith consortium and in the space of a few hours they think they're calling all the shots. They are debating whether they should accept a place in the SPL and fight despite any sanctions, go down to the 3rd division and bankrupt as many clubs as possible or accept the compromise of a place in the 1st division. I hope enough club CEO's have the balls to put them in their place ...... Something tells me they won't.

[down-the-slope]

The Rangers Supporters Trust has urged fans not to renew season tickets in a bid to put pressure on Mr Green to sell to Mr Smith's consortium.

:rolleyes: There will be scottish teams playing Euro matches before this gets resolved.........

[Sylar]

Scotland Tonight special starting about it all on ITV.

[GreenCastle]

So what is the new club (newco for short) called now ?

Rangers are dead so ? :confused:

[Sylar]

So what is the new club (newco for short) called now ?

Rangers are dead so ? :confused:

The Rangers Football Club

[joe breezy]

It's online too, quite funny already - I've missed so much news coverage living in London...

[GreenCastle]

The Rangers Football Club

Just heard that on STV - :jamboak:

Surely they will need to rebrand the stadium and kit they wear from now on ?

The leagues will still have just Rangers - it's like nothing has changed :rolleyes:

When is the SPL vote ? Has this been confirmed yet ?

[SteveHFC]

The Rangers Football Club

I thought their new name was gonna be Willem III :(

[Matty_Jack04]

Zzzz this programme is just reminding me of why I hate them so much

[joe breezy]

Yes see them all disgusted at signing a catholic

[joe breezy]

It's gonna get worse when the apologists and sycophants start speaking

[jabis]

Just heard that on STV - :jamboak:

Surely they will need to rebrand the stadium and kit they wear from now on ?

The leagues will still have just Rangers - it's like nothing has changed :rolleyes:

When is the SPL vote ? Has this been confirmed yet ?

if those cheating sitehawks come back with the same badge,and the stars above it,I will never set foot in a football park again !




unless Hibs are playing echlefechine 2nd string,in the final of the Scottish cup:greengrin

[HUTCHYHIBBY]

This is a spew inducing joke so far.

[Captain Trips]

It's gonna get worse when the apologists and sycophants start speaking

:agree:

[hibernianyank]

Quoted rangers fan off the tv " I haven't slept for 3 months" haha

[Sylar]

This is a spew inducing joke so far.

What, you mean your passion for the legendary, proud and historic institution of the mighty Glasgow Rangers hasn't been invigorated by this past 18 minutes?! :greengrin

I for one am ready to get out there and pledge allegiance :rolleyes:

[Cabbage East]

This programme is utterly disgusting.

[joe breezy]

Gordon Smith total bawbag

[SuperTortolano]

This thread is full of what other people should / should not do. Rod is standing up to them, what about us, the "ordinary" supporters, lets get together with other Scottish supporters and let the SFA, know that Rangers are DEAD. They have no place in the top flight of Scottich football no matter what they or the Scottish media say. For a start lets stop drinking tennants, lets get our voice heard. Once they're gone more people will be back to support the game bringing more money (legal this time) and things will get so much better, we, the people that put money into Scottich football know this, it's time everyone knows that Scotland don't need / want The Rangers Football Club or what ever the new tax dodging, bill paying call themselves! How can we make sure that the vote is NO TO A TEAM OF CHEATS IN THE SPL?

[Cabbage East]

"Rangers should have been fined."

:faf:

Riiiiiiiiiight :rolleyes:

[GreenCastle]

The fixtures come out Monday with Rangers in them...a team that doesn't exist any more....only in Scotland :rolleyes:

[Kyle A]

This thread is full of what other people should / should not do. Rod is standing up to them, what about us, the "ordinary" supporters, lets get together with other Scottish supporters and let the SFA, know that Rangers are DEAD. They have no place in the top flight of Scottich football no matter what they or the Scottish media say. For a start lets stop drinking tennants, lets get our voice heard. Once they're gone more people will be back to support the game bringing more money (legal this time) and things will get so much better, we, the people that put money into Scottich football know this, it's time everyone knows that Scotland don't need / want The Rangers Football Club or what ever the new tax dodging, bill paying call themselves! How can we make sure that the vote is NO TO A TEAM OF CHEATS IN THE SPL?

Easy now. Thats on offer in Asda! :cool2:

[HUTCHYHIBBY]

This programme is utterly disgusting.

When are we going to get a programme with people that know whats going on to discuss the salient points of the issue? I mean Archie and Colin Jackson, really?

[Diclonius]

The fixtures come out Monday with Rangers in them...a team that doesn't exist any more....only in Scotland :rolleyes:

I would expect two sets of fixtures will be made, one with Dundee and one with Rangers.

[Kato]

This programme is utterly disgusting.

What do you expect? There are many things with the word "Scottish" attached which are embarrasing. None more so than STV. My mate calls it "RiddyTV" he finds it so cringeworthy.

[Spike Mandela]

Toe curlingly bad programme which is like an advert for promoting Rangers with no dissenting voices present. Pathetic.

[down-the-slope]

When are we going to get a programme with people that know whats going on to discuss the salient points of the issue? I mean Archie and Colin Jackson, really?


The decent options are all on Newsnight on BBC2 thats why :greengrin

[snooky]

Twice tonight I've heard Walter's name mentioned with the fact that he was the most successful Rangers manager with 10(?) SPL titles.
Eh, am I missing something? Have they not been listening to the news? You would think they would have at least a red face mentioning the 'titles' won given the revelations that are coming out and are still to come out.
The media have already started the "Business as usual, boys".

No humility, no apologies, no sense of remorse. Nothing of that ilk has been forthcoming from RFC and its cronies.

[blackpoolhibs]

What a bunch of bawbags, Tom English the only one who knows what he's talking about.

[SmashinGlass]

Absolute f***ing stitch up. Where is the balanced argument here?

[calmac12000]

STV showing their true colorrs with this remarkably unenlightening programme on the glorious Glasgow Rangers- oh sorry an objective look at the whole sorry Rangers saga. Christ with the honourable exception of Tom English, its a complete Hunfest. Still not one iota of contrition, not to even mention the unmentionable spectre at the feast that of the old Rangers record of bigotry, sectarianism and hooliganism.

[hibernianyank]

Fans point of view next, this should be entertaining!

[HUTCHYHIBBY]

The decent options are all on Newsnight on BBC2 thats why :greengrin

I'll get it on Catch Up. ;-)

[SmashinGlass]

I'm struggling to actually comprehend how ridiculous this is

[green glory]

CG and CWG can we say now categorically RFC's history lies with Oldco and will die with it? Legally speaking? I need a reassuring hug.

[Del Boy]

Disgraceful from stv. Spencey telling it as it is on BBC. No one wants them in the SPL.

[HUTCHYHIBBY]

If bairns had made that bollocks as a media project at school you would've felt embarassed for them!

[James.]

What an absolute load of scheidt this is.

That comment about who'd want to play in Brechin/Dumfries totally sums up what's wrong with the Old Firm centric media. Absolute no respect for any other club - the clubs who have played by the rules, the clubs with integrity.

[Spike Mandela]

Wow that was as poor a debate on the Rangers saga I have ever witnessed. STV should be embarrassed. Newsnight Scotland provides proper coverage of this issue.

[Jonnyboy]

Time to advise STV that those initials don't stand for Save The Vermin

viewerenquiries@stv.tv

[Del Boy]

Celtic better not bottle it when it comes to voting.

I'm confident Hibs, united and aberdeen wil do the right thing. We need 2 more...l

[Paisley Hibby]

What do you expect? There are many things with the word "Scottish" attached which are embarrasing. None more so than STV. My mate calls it "RiddyTV" he finds it so cringeworthy.

"RiddyTV" :greengrin I like that - and so accurate :top marks

Mind you, I gave up watching it a while ago - tabloid TV run by amateurs.

[Del Boy]

Time to advise STV that those initials don't stand for Save The Vermin

viewerenquiries@stv.tv

Bombard the morons.

[Baldy Foghorn]

What an absolute load of scheidt this is.

That comment about who'd want to play in Brechin/Dumfries totally sums up what's wrong with the Old Firm centric media. Absolute no respect for any other club - the clubs who have played by the rules, the clubs with integrity.

Exactly.....Embarrassing that they have such a lack of respect. Sporting integrity does not even come into it with these morons......They flouted the rules, cheated blatantly, but we are all to feel sorry for them, and let them back in.....Sorry state of affairs....

[SmashinGlass]

This is where we need to ensure that fans from the remaining 11 SPL clubs unite to ensure a sustained campaign that ensures these ****s do not get allowed re-entry. That survey from a few weeks back would be a good start

[johnrebus]

What a crappy little country we live in.

[s2hart]

Personally I think they will be in the SPL next season, after all the crawling they are and will do given the first opportunity them and their ugly sister will jump ship, they wouldn't give two hoots about Scottish football.

Get them kicked out, be it to the 3rd division or out of the league altogether, they have embarrassed Scottish football with all that's going on and with the court case over ruling the transfer embargo, this is a great opportunity for a revolution in the Scottish game, the clowns that are at the SFA, SFL or SPL need to step out of the dark ages and get there finger out and change our game for the good.

In reality it will still be the same mundane league in years to come and the game will go even further backwards.

RIP Scottish football.

On another note, when the current team eventually resigns from the SPL leaving a vacancy, can't any other SFL or football team apply to fill the vacancy not just the newco?

[Jones28]

Get newsnight on lads!

Fair, balanced, comprehensive and knowledgeable panel: Mark Daly, Duncan Fraser (BBC Business editor), Jim Spence, Sports Finance expert, Liquidator, Rangers hsitorian, Sport Finance guy from Stirling Uni and a Journo from the Herald.

Spencey telling it how it is, that they probably won't get back into the SPL.

STV programme sounds like utter pish!

Basically the jist of what was said was that Greene is now in charge of a new company, The Rangers Football club, which he will try to sell off ASAP. It will be debt free and have the assets still in their possesion - stadium and training ground - and so will be worth a bit more and Greene will make a profit. That was my understanding, but I don't get how the debt will work and where that will go if it works out that way. Will that still mean the stadium is sold off and the only thing left will be the naming rights?
This leaves oppertuntists like Smith and his consortium free to get the club for £6.5 million.

[blackpoolhibs]

I switched over to the bbc show, and one of the gimps there said, rangers cant be relegated, they are too big a club to fail. :rolleyes:

[Matty_Jack04]

3rd division no promotion for 2 years, history goes with oldco and on return to SPL 75% of prize money gained for the first 5 years split between the other clubs.

If that's not acceptable then the league placing goes up for grabs for the likes of Spartans/gala and there oot

Not one club is bigger than the leagues and associations and they should be punished accordingly minimum of 10years worth of cheating the above is 10years worth of punishments.

This STV programme is the most disrespectfill peice iv ever seen the Celtic man wants to keep them in the league because the league won't survive, nothing to do with 3 years worth of loss of trading on bigotry then...but strip them of there titles to leave his club the most successful it's ridiculous! Even the Italians sorted there cheats out harsher than us

This whole situation dragging on is only gathering momentum before it explodes in the faces of the SPL/SFA, I'm quite confident the NO vote will happen how prepared does that leave Dundee or Dunfermline for an SPL campaign and the same for further down the leagues, a fixture list is about to be published with a club that no longer exists in it, a SFA secretary who has benefited from EBTs and dodged tax still employed, the whole country's media no longer impartial in any sense after months of Hun @rse kissing

Its a farce a total shambles.......and we're no closer to league reconstruction :)

Rant n a half but I'm massively peeved off

[calmac12000]

I have to admit to being so disgusted by STV's partiality that I turned it off for a much more objective discusion on Newsnight. What outrages me even more is the complete lack of comprehension by the Huns and their apologists as to why we all dare to be upset about the continuing membership of the SPL by the cheating ****.:flag::flag::flag::flag::flag::flag:

[HibbyAndy]

Celtic better not bottle it when it comes to voting.

I'm confident Hibs, united and aberdeen wil do the right thing. We need 2 more...l


:agree:



Im sure St.Mirren will boot these morons oot tae:agree:

[ScottB]

Wonder how long it took them to find someone from Celtic to come out and say to keep them in the league... Of course he was far more excited to demand all the trophies to go to the runners up... Wonder who would get most of them then? Oh right...

It was, as expected, largely nonsense. When you get moron ex players trying to talk over the one person on the panel qualified to talk about liquidations, valuations and the like, that tells you all you need to know.

Also as expected, it hinted at, but glossed right over the Old Firms previous attempts to escape, the idea that the league is doomed without them, as apparently Archie reckons TV is 'the only source of income' totally ignoring that it is TICKET SALES that is the single biggest income stream, certainly for the rest of us.

Also sick of the line 'we need to stop punishing Rangers.' We have stopped. They no longer exist. What we, the vast majority of football fans in this country, the ones the media seem determined to ignore and fob off, want, is for the new football club that is calling itself Rangers to be treated for what it is, a new club. We need to stop talking about 'demoting' them, because there is nothing to demote. New clubs apply and join at SFL3 level. That would satisfy us and maintain the integrity of the game.

[stoneyburn hibs]

Newsnight Scotland , did i imagine it or did Mark Daly have a wee smirk on his face everytime he spoke about Rangers dirty dealings ? . Like this guy.

Aberdeen will surely be more encouraged by their fans to vote no after the Rangers historian had a dig at them regarding sporting integrity .

[Ryan91]

Celtic better not bottle it when it comes to voting.

I'm confident Hibs, united and aberdeen wil do the right thing. We need 2 more...l

Celtic's fans would have their directors head's if they voted yes. Their fans say that they can live without Rangers and want them gone, so Celtic I'm going to put down as a No to Newco along with Hibs, Utd. and Aberdeen. I think that Well might vote No too, as their fans have made rumblings about not getting STs/returning them if the chairman votes Yes. It's far too tight for my liking at the moment, as we've almost certainly got 4 'No' votes off the bat. Hearts are on the fence, I hope the Hearts fans let their club know their feelings on this situation (I'd like to think that they would want the club to vote 'No') and threaten them with return/non-purchase of season tickets if they vote Yes. Even though we may not see eye to eye, I would hope the Hibernian fans who are opposed to a Newco may join forces with the Hearts fans opposed to a Newco, as a resounding 'No' from the fans of both Edinburgh teams would surely be enough to make clubs sit up and take notice.

[Niffy]

Ignorant old firm dicks.
How do Divs 1-3 survive without the old firm then ?

Like they showed in one of the clips , they wanted to leave the SPL , now one of them has the chance to do it.

**** off to Div 3 huns.

[calmac12000]

Personally I think they will be in the SPL next season, after all the crawling they are and will do given the first opportunity them and their ugly sister will jump ship, they wouldn't give two hoots about Scottish football.

Get them kicked out, be it to the 3rd division or out of the league altogether, they have embarrassed Scottish football with all that's going on and with the court case over ruling the transfer embargo, this is a great opportunity for a revolution in the Scottish game, the clowns that are at the SFA, SFL or SPL need to step out of the dark ages and get there finger out and change our game for the good.

In reality it will still be the same mundane league in years to come and the game will go even further backwards.

RIP Scottish football.

On another note, when the current team eventually resigns from the SPL leaving a vacancy, can't any other SFL or football team apply to fill the vacancy not just the newco?
According to my understanding, even if they are shown in the fixture list no club representing Rangers in any form EXISTS at this moment in time.

[Jones28]

I switched over to the bbc show, and one of the gimps there said, rangers cant be relegated, they are too big a club to fail. :rolleyes:

The same one that said Aberdeen are ones to talk about sporting integrity? Ie the Rangers Historian :greengrin

[Niffy]

And as for the idiot Kelly saying strip them of titles & cups and give them to the 2nd place teams.... Whoopdi doo.

And punished already ?? 10 points deduction in a league they were going to loose anyway and a ****ty wee fine ?

It was Ueafa that deals the European ban is it not ?

[DH1875]

Can't believe I wasted an hour watching that crap. What a total stitch up :fuming:.

[Brando7]

Can't believe I wasted an hour watching that crap. What a total stitch up :fuming:.

Same here....an hour wasted i'll never get back

So if Rangers (oldco) still have the membership to SPL how can Green submit to join SPL as the oldco note dead yet as they still alive for another 8-10wks

Green has a staduim +training ground but no players or SPL membership...now Watty appears from nowhere n tries to steal his thunder...wonder wot happens next

[The Harp Awakes]

Celtic's fans would have their directors head's if they voted yes. Their fans say that they can live without Rangers and want them gone, so Celtic I'm going to put down as a No to Newco along with Hibs, Utd. and Aberdeen. I think that Well might vote No too, as their fans have made rumblings about not getting STs/returning them if the chairman votes Yes. It's far too tight for my liking at the moment, as we've almost certainly got 4 'No' votes off the bat. Hearts are on the fence, I hope the Hearts fans let their club know their feelings on this situation (I'd like to think that they would want the club to vote 'No') and threaten them with return/non-purchase of season tickets if they vote Yes. Even though we may not see eye to eye, I would hope the Hibernian fans who are opposed to a Newco may join forces with the Hearts fans opposed to a Newco, as a resounding 'No' from the fans of both Edinburgh teams would surely be enough to make clubs sit up and take notice.

I agree. I think Celtic, Hibs, Aberdeen and Dundee United will almost certainly vote No. St Mirren, St Johnstone and Motherwell are all possible 'No's'. ICT, Killie & Ross County are likely yes's. Hearts, consistent with their owner, are unpredictable - so could go either way.

I'd take a punt at 6 no's (Celtic, Hibs, Aberdeen, St Mirren, Motherwell and Dundee United) V 6 yes's (the rest) with Newco to go down.

[Emerald]

They say that 3 years ban from Europe is a punishment but what about the 15 years or more that we and other clubs could have missed out on Europe if they hadn't been cheating? How many clubs have lost to them in Scottish cup ties never mind finals and missing finals that could have qualified a club for Europe just for getting there? So no, they've had enough punishment for now, let them start up debt free and right away gain an advantage on every other team in the SPL who is servicing their debts at a huge percentage of their turnover. In three years time they are back in Europe and all is forgiven.

How much revenue have other clubs lost because of them? How many Scottish Cup final tickets, t shirts, videos etc have other missed out on, but hey they've been punished enough. Lets get back to the status quo where none of the other clubs really matter and sweep this little accident under the carpet, run along now!

The STV programme just about tipped me over the edge with the old blood pressure. I hope they rot in hell.:grr::grr::grr:

[Viva_Palmeiras]

Will the clubs voting be done as a secret ballot or a show of hands ?
If secret then folks could claim one thing do another.
Will the voting decisions per club then be made known to the wider public?

Drawing this saga out probably favours the status quo as budget decisions, sponsorship, season ticket purchases and fixture lists loom large.

[Spike Mandela]

The new SPL season starts 7 weeks on Saturday. Can this all be sorted in time?

[Emerald]

Celtic's fans would have their directors head's if they voted yes. Their fans say that they can live without Rangers and want them gone, so Celtic I'm going to put down as a No to Newco along with Hibs, Utd. and Aberdeen. I think that Well might vote No too, as their fans have made rumblings about not getting STs/returning them if the chairman votes Yes. It's far too tight for my liking at the moment, as we've almost certainly got 4 'No' votes off the bat. Hearts are on the fence, I hope the Hearts fans let their club know their feelings on this situation (I'd like to think that they would want the club to vote 'No') and threaten them with return/non-purchase of season tickets if they vote Yes. Even though we may not see eye to eye, I would hope the Hibernian fans who are opposed to a Newco may join forces with the Hearts fans opposed to a Newco, as a resounding 'No' from the fans of both Edinburgh teams would surely be enough to make clubs sit up and take notice.

I think the Hearts fans are in agreement and would be up in arms too if der hun got back into the SPL. The problem is that the media would put all the blame on the teams that voted no and blame them for the fiasco and making them the scapegoats for the oncoming 'fall' of Scottish football. Hearts are snakes (and I'm not on this occasion refering to the fans) and will do whatever it takes to protect them and their (haha) investment. I think they will vote to allow them in. Just a hunch!

[1875godsgift]

Time to advise STV that those initials don't stand for Save The Vermin

viewerenquiries@stv.tv

Dear sir/madam,
Your so called documentary tonight on the ongoing criminal investigations surrounding Rangers football club was lamentable.
The continued praising of Walter Smith as being a ‘ 9 in a row ‘ winning manager was laughable because, if you haven’t realised, the only way he won all these trophies was due to the fact his club were cheating.
I was under the obviously false assumption the people making this programme were impartial journalists, but unfortunately it’s apparent it was made by those sympathetic to the supporting of sectarianism in our society.
The burden of shame lies firmly in your court, I really can’t see how you can defend a football club who have robbed the tax payer of upwards of £100 million pounds. Do you realise how many schools, policemen, nurses or doctors this money could have funded?
I hope you can justify your choice, sectarian bigotry above sporting integrity and social obligations.

Sent mine off!

[silverhibee]

Will the clubs voting be done as a secret ballot or a show of hands ?
If secret then folks could claim one thing do another.
Will the voting decisions per club then be made known to the wider public?

Drawing this saga out probably favours the status quo as budget decisions, sponsorship, season ticket purchases and fixture lists loom large.


It has to be done this way, a show of hands of who voted which way, the clubs that vote no will be more than happy to let the press know how they voted as they walk out the front door of Hampden while the rest that voted yes will be sneaking out the back door not wanting to talk to the waiting press.

If they are voted back in it will more than likely be the end of Scottish football, nobody will want to go and watch a rigged SPL. :agree:

[silverhibee]

Dear sir/madam,
Your so called documentary tonight on the ongoing criminal investigations surrounding Rangers football club was lamentable.
The continued praising of Walter Smith as being a ‘ 9 in a row ‘ winning manager was laughable because, if you haven’t realised, the only way he won all these trophies was due to the fact his club were cheating.
I was under the obviously false assumption the people making this programme were impartial journalists, but unfortunately it’s apparent it was made by those sympathetic to the supporting of sectarianism in our society.
The burden of shame lies firmly in your court, I really can’t see how you can defend a football club who have robbed the tax payer of upwards of £100 million pounds. Do you realise how many schools, policemen, nurses or doctors this money could have funded?
I hope you can justify your choice, sectarian bigotry above sporting integrity and social obligations.

Sent mine off!

:top marks

[bighairyfaeleith]

Just sent my complaint to STV as well

Dear Sirs,

May I congratulate you on airing this great piece of propaganda, while the BBC made the obvious mistake of presenting both sides of the argument, you quite rightly went for the route of keeping this show to being a rangers only affair.

Congratulations on failing to discuss the fact that Rangers have successfully stolen over £100 Million pounds from the Scottish people, money which would only have been wasted on schools and the like. Congratulations on pushing the message that cheating in sport is ok, that in fact cheats do prosper if they are the peepul.

Scotland is so very proud of STV this morning, so very very proud.

I bet thats the email you hoped for, well sorry but last nights programme was a disgrace, I have written to virgin media this morning to request that STV be removed from virgin media package as I don't want my children to accidentally turn this channel on and hear the sort of propaganda that was aired last night. That was not journalism, it was not balanced reporting, it was not representative of the majority of scotlands views, it was simply nauseating.

I expect STV to air an apology for this show, if this does not happen then I will, and I would expect many others, be contacting Ofcom to take this matter further.

I'm still raging at that programme and the general way that the peepul think they can railroad rangers back into the SPL.

It's time for the real scottish football fans, those interested in watching a fair contest, a game where two teams have an equal chance of winning, get together as one voice and take on the rangers, the SFA, and the SPL and let them know exactly how big our voice is, anyone interested pm me. I'm not an elegant enough speaker to lead this sort of thing but I will certainly help in other ways, we need to get fans from all the clubs involved.

If this is already happening please send me details so I can get involved. Last night tipped me over the edge, time to get off our settees and get our game back.

[Pete]

And as for the idiot Kelly saying strip them of titles & cups and give them to the 2nd place teams.... Whoopdi doo.

And punished already ?? 10 points deduction in a league they were going to loose anyway and a ****ty wee fine ?

It was Ueafa that deals the European ban is it not ?

I'd be well up for that. We would have won Three Scottish cups in 1979!

[theonlywayisup]

No point in complaining to STV. Better to direct as many complaints as possible to Ofcom. Section 5 in their document refers to Due impartiality and due accuracy and undue prominence of views and opinions.

This guidance below relates to the Ofcom Broadcasting Code (February 2011) and applies to all programmes broadcast on or after 28 February 2011.

http://stakeholders.ofcom.org.uk/broadcasting/guidance/programme-guidance/bguidance/

http://stakeholders.ofcom.org.uk/binaries/broadcast/guidance/831193/section5.pdf

[theonlywayisup]

Re The Rangers getting a vote in the decision of whether they are allowed into the SPL or not, are we sure that they will get a vote? Who has confirmed this in the media?

The reason why I ask is that Green is quoted as saying "The big challenge is that as we sit here today we are no longer in the SPL. We’re not a member of the SFA. We’re a newco who are applying – and letters have gone off already to the SPL and the SFA – asking them to consider the transfer of the shares to allow us to become members." So as I read that I would be surprised if they get a vote as they are not now in the SPL. I am sure that Rod is on the case!

http://www.scotsman.com/sport/football/spl/rangers-liquidation-i-m-the-best-chief-exec-this-club-s-had-in-years-1-2353744

[Onion]

Toe curlingly bad programme which is like an advert for promoting Rangers with no dissenting voices present. Pathetic.

:agree: I started watching but could only stomach 15 mins. It was the most one side piece of blatant propaganda I think I've ever seen on TV.

[Onion]

Celtic's fans would have their directors head's if they voted yes. Their fans say that they can live without Rangers and want them gone, so Celtic I'm going to put down as a No to Newco along with Hibs, Utd. and Aberdeen. I think that Well might vote No too, as their fans have made rumblings about not getting STs/returning them if the chairman votes Yes. It's far too tight for my liking at the moment, as we've almost certainly got 4 'No' votes off the bat. Hearts are on the fence, I hope the Hearts fans let their club know their feelings on this situation (I'd like to think that they would want the club to vote 'No') and threaten them with return/non-purchase of season tickets if they vote Yes. Even though we may not see eye to eye, I would hope the Hibernian fans who are opposed to a Newco may join forces with the Hearts fans opposed to a Newco, as a resounding 'No' from the fans of both Edinburgh teams would surely be enough to make clubs sit up and take notice.

Whichever way this goes, this will rip Scottish Football apart. It is obvious that the only sensible answer is if Newco to volunteer to start again in Div 3 - taking away any decision to be made by the Chairmen. It is the right thing to do for all concerned. But sadly, when was the last time the Huns did the right thing ?

[R'Albin]

Aberdeen will surely be more encouraged by their fans to vote no after the Rangers historian had a dig at them regarding sporting integrity .

I severely doubt Stewart Milne gives a toss about what anybody say about Abereen. The only reason that he will, IMO, vote no is that there will be a massive boycott from the fans.

[Pete]

:agree: I started watching but could only stomach 15 mins. It was the most one side piece of blatant propaganda I think I've ever seen on TV.

The old celtic guy was great value. He was going on about how rangers should stay in the SPL for a while...only then to suddenly come out with the condition that they should be stripped of all their titles and cups!

He sounded like an old man who had downed one too many nips.

[Moulin Yarns]

Re The Rangers getting a vote in the decision of whether they are allowed into the SPL or not, are we sure that they will get a vote? Who has confirmed this in the media?

The reason why I ask is that Green is quoted as saying "The big challenge is that as we sit here today we are no longer in the SPL. We’re not a member of the SFA. We’re a newco who are applying – and letters have gone off already to the SPL and the SFA – asking them to consider the transfer of the shares to allow us to become members." So as I read that I would be surprised if they get a vote as they are not now in the SPL. I am sure that Rod is on the case!

http://www.scotsman.com/sport/football/spl/rangers-liquidation-i-m-the-best-chief-exec-this-club-s-had-in-years-1-2353744

~And you have hit the nail on the head as to why The Rangers (Charles Green) should not be allowed to vote on their entry into the SPL, because they are not in the SPL and are applying to the SPL.

[bighairyfaeleith]

~And you have hit the nail on the head as to why The Rangers (Charles Green) should not be allowed to vote on their entry into the SPL, because they are not in the SPL and are applying to the SPL.

It's a technicality, but he isn't allowed to vote, duff and phelps get the vote as rangers plc administrators, there vote should be cast in the best interests of the creditors, but it won't be

[Caversham Green]

What's your latest view on the "assets", Cav? Do you think the property is in there?

Sorry, I was out last night and didn't see this till now.

I've never been entirley convinced about my own interpretation here, but the Estimated Outcome Statement really couldn't be clearer - the properties are excluded from the £5.5m price. I've noticed that the bracket round the other assets is hand drawn (very professional) and is carefully drawn up short of the properties, so it's not a typo or drafting error, it's deliberate. Getting something like that wrong would be a sacking offence in most of the places I've worked, but I'm pretty sure they all had more professional dignity than Duff & Phelps. Your arguments earlier on in the thread are also very convincing but....

The fact that the proposal makes no mention of what will happen to the properties means that if my interpretation is right the document is incomplete and does not give a true picture of the choices facing the creditors to the extent that it is wilfully misleading. In addition pretty much everything that's been said so far suggests the properties have gone across and general logic would also suggest that (that's not a strong argument in this case though).

So I remain not entirely convinced either way, but if I was a creditor I would have requested clarification in writing to myself and all other creditors.


:aok: thanks Cav saved me posting as you have...

Question to think about...could the SPL share not be considered an asset? (potentially very valuable) as Any NewCo (Greens / Wattys etc) will want RFCIA to vote Yes for it...that surely has a 'value' :greengrin...presumably its D&P who have that Vote as they still Administer RFCIA and they should act in best interest of creditors....so......

The SPL share has no sell-on value, because the recipient can only receive it with the consent of the other members and the SPL as a commercial concern has no residual value. However there's nothing to prevent the other member clubs insisting that a payment be made towards the oldco liquidation fund as a condition of admitting the newco into the SPL.

[Moulin Yarns]

It's a technicality, but he isn't allowed to vote, duff and phelps get the vote as rangers plc administrators, there vote should be cast in the best interests of the creditors, but it won't be

even then, Rangers 1872 are in liquidation, so technically no longer exist, so why would D&P or even BDO be allowed a vote when the future of oldco is already assured (DEATH)

[s.a.m]

Sorry, I was out last night and didn't see this till now.
.....
.

:I'm waiti

Is CWG meant to handle this all by himself? :greengrin

[bighairyfaeleith]

even then, Rangers 1872 are in liquidation, so technically no longer exist, so why would D&P or even BDO be allowed a vote when the future of oldco is already assured (DEATH)

I think technically they are not in liquidation yet, that is several weeks away. Just enough time for a vote. Sure someone can confirm or deny this though??

[johnrebus]

Whichever way this goes, this will rip Scottish Football apart. It is obvious that the only sensible answer is if Newco to volunteer to start again in Div 3 - taking away any decision to be made by the Chairmen. It is the right thing to do for all concerned. But sadly, when was the last time the Huns did the right thing ?


I don't get all the clamour to have them in Division Three.

They should be expelled completely or, at the very least, be suspended for three years.


I would prefer expelled, then the air we all breath would be that little bit cleaner.

:agree:

[Caversham Green]

CG and CWG can we say now categorically RFC's history lies with Oldco and will die with it? Legally speaking? I need a reassuring hug.

Here you go:

:hug:

In legal terms it is a new club with no history, but as I posted on another thread in footballing terms it can be viewed in one of two ways:

- Either the newco is an entirely new club, in which case it has no history and no place in Scotland's top league because it is not a leading football, having never even played a game of football yet, or

- It is a continuation of the old club, which has been found guilty of bringing the game into disrepute to the extent that only match-fixing would be considered more serious and stands accused of fraudulent returns regarding players contracts - if proven, that's a far more serious offence in my view than the first one. Such a club has no place in Scotland's top league or indeed anywhere in Scottish football.

As far as I'm concerned there is no middle ground, but the second option would allow them to keep their history at least in philosophical terms. They would no longer be a football club though.

[Paisley Hibby]

[QUOTE=Caversham Green;3263827]

The fact that the proposal makes no mention of what will happen to the properties means that if my interpretation is right the document is incomplete and does not give a true picture of the choices facing the creditors to the extent that it is wilfully misleading. In addition pretty much everything that's been said so far suggests the properties have gone across and general logic would also suggest that (that's not a strong argument in this case though).

If the bit in bold is correct, who do you think D&P would have been trying to mislead and why?

[Caversham Green]

:I'm waiti

Is CWG meant to handle this all by himself? :greengrin

:greengrin Funnily enough there were a couple of fellow professionals in the company and one is just getting up to speed on the Rangers case, so guess what the main topic of converation was.

[Caversham Green]

[QUOTE=Caversham Green;3263827]

The fact that the proposal makes no mention of what will happen to the properties means that if my interpretation is right the document is incomplete and does not give a true picture of the choices facing the creditors to the extent that it is wilfully misleading. In addition pretty much everything that's been said so far suggests the properties have gone across and general logic would also suggest that (that's not a strong argument in this case though).

If the bit in bold is correct, who do you think D&P would have been trying to mislead and why?

Undoubtedly they would be trying to mislead the creditors to convince them to accept the CVA. If the properties were included in the newco option at any reasonable value then that option becomes far more attractive to creditors than the CVA.

[StevieC]

Property?

Is it conceivable that Craig Whyte will own the property upon liquidation and he had entered into a pre-liquidation agreement with Green? Ticketus have also taken a step back which leads me to believe, rightly or wrongly, that they may have some sort of post liquidation deal for season tickets if there is some sort of Green & Whyte collaboration?

It just seems strange that there is so much uncertaintity surrounding the ownwrship of Ibrox, especially given how cozy the relationship between D&P and Green and Whyte seems to have been.

[AllyT]

Why don't Rangers just apply to join the English Conference North? Everyone wins then, we get rid of them and they fulfill their dream of playing in Engerland. :greengrin

[CropleyWasGod]

Property?

Is it conceivable that Craig Whyte will own the property upon liquidation and he had entered into a pre-liquidation agreement with Green? Ticketus have also taken a step back which leads me to believe, rightly or wrongly, that they may have some sort of post liquidation deal for season tickets if there is some sort of Green & Whyte collaboration?

It just seems strange that there is so much uncertaintity surrounding the ownwrship of Ibrox, especially given how cozy the relationship between D&P and Green and Whyte seems to have been.

If, big IF as we've discussed, the property is still in the OldCo, the liquidation process would put it up for sale in the open market. CW may have his eyes on it, but 1. so might others 2. does he have the cash, especially given that Ticketus are now after him personally?

[Paisley Hibby]

[QUOTE=Paisley Hibby;3263850]

Undoubtedly they would be trying to mislead the creditors to convince them to accept the CVA. If the properties were included in the newco option at any reasonable value then that option becomes far more attractive to creditors than the CVA.

Sorry, still trying to understand. Are you saying that the document may have been written in a way that would lead the creditors to think that the property was not included in the £5.5m Newco purchase but in fact it was?

I can't believe that D&P would think they could get away with that or that the main creditors' advisers would be taken in by it - especially as Green has been claiming since before the CVA vote that the Newco would still play at Ibrox.

[ancienthibby]

If, big IF as we've discussed, the property is still in the OldCo, the liquidation process would put it up for sale in the open market. CW may have his eyes on it, but 1. so might others 2. does he have the cash, especially given that Ticketus are now after him personally?

Via his front man, Yorkie bar??:greengrin

[dangermouse]

Why don't Rangers just apply to join the English Conference North? Everyone wins then, we get rid of them and they fulfill their dream of playing in Engerland. :greengrin

Because they don't want them either. There are links further back in this thread to support my claim.

[CropleyWasGod]

[QUOTE=Caversham Green;3263852]

Sorry, still trying to understand. Are you saying that the document may have been written in a way that would lead the creditors to think that the property was not included in the £5.5m Newco purchase but in fact it was?

I can't believe that D&P would think they could get away with that or that the main creditors' advisers would be taken in by it - especially as Green has been claiming since before the CVA vote that the Newco would still play at Ibrox.

The very fact that you don't understand.... and that I am swithering, and that Cav is sitting on the fence so much he has splinters in his erse :greengrin.... is indicative of how crucial this question is. No Fricker has asked the question publicly yet!!

I do hope that my former employers at BDO are on this. They will be, won't they? We can't be the only ones talking about his, can we? :confused:

[ScottB]

Because they don't want them either. There are links further back in this thread to support my claim.

Also their recent 'Operation let's **** off FIFA / UEFA as much as possible' would surely render the governing bodies a tad reluctant to sanction their moving into a different countries league.

[Caversham Green]

[QUOTE=Caversham Green;3263852]

Sorry, still trying to understand. Are you saying that the document may have been written in a way that would lead the creditors to think that the property was not included in the £5.5m Newco purchase but in fact it was?

I can't believe that D&P would think they could get away with that or that the main creditors' advisers would be taken in by it - especially as Green has been claiming since before the CVA vote that the Newco would still play at Ibrox.

I'm actually saying the opposite of that. The Estimated Outcome Statement shows very clearly that the property is not included in the sale to newco, but the document as a whole and subsequent comments by D&P and others give the impression that the property is included. If the EOS part is not a mistake then D&P have been working very hard to convince creditors that a CVA was the best possible outcome whilst not revealing the whole story - that the properties were not a part of the Newco settlement.

[HUTCHYHIBBY]

Just watched the Newsnight Scotland programme, unfortunately we never learnt anything new, although, thankfully, it was a lot more professional and balanced than the STV nonsense.
Jim Spence at least had his finger on the pulse re fans of other SPL teams, the big question is Will we be listened to?

[CropleyWasGod]

[QUOTE=Paisley Hibby;3263916]

I'm actually saying the opposite of that. The Estimated Outcome Statement shows very clearly that the property is not included in the sale to newco, but the document as a whole and subsequent comments by D&P and others give the impression that the property is included. If the EOS part is not a mistake then D&P have been working very hard to convince creditors that a CVA was the best possible outcome whilst not revealing the whole story - that the properties were not a part of the Newco settlement.

The more I read it, Cav, the more I am convinced that the latter is the case.

BUT... and this is the most frustrating thing for me... NO ONE is asking the question!!

[ancienthibby]

[QUOTE=Paisley Hibby;3263916]

The very fact that you don't understand.... and that I am swithering, and that Cav is sitting on the fence so much he has splinters in his erse :greengrin.... is indicative of how crucial this question is. No Fricker has asked the question publicly yet!!

I do hope that my former employers at BDO are on this. They will be, won't they? We can't be the only ones talking about his, can we? :confused:

Surmising a bit on this, Mr Croppers, would this not allow the Yorkie man to walk away, Watty to sail in and be the great hero, whom the SFA/SPL would never inflict any punishment on ever

Is this what the Scottish fans (excepting huns) want??

[CropleyWasGod]

[QUOTE=CropleyWasGod;3263925]

Surmising a bit on this, Mr Croppers, would this not allow the Yorkie man to walk away, Watty to sail in and be the great hero, whom the SFA/SPL would never inflict any punishment on ever

Is this what the Scottish fans (excepting huns) want??

Yes, but the property would still be in the old company.... leaving it open to purchase by someone who had no intention of using it as a football stadium.

[greenlex]

[QUOTE=Caversham Green;3263931]

The more I read it, Cav, the more I am convinced that the latter is the case.

BUT... and this is the most frustrating thing for me... NO ONE is asking the question!!
Surely a quick e-mail to a paper or the Channel 4 dude is in order just in case this has been missed.

[Caversham Green]

[QUOTE=Paisley Hibby;3263916]

The very fact that you don't understand.... and that I am swithering, and that Cav is sitting on the fence so much he has splinters in his erse :greengrin.... is indicative of how crucial this question is. No Fricker has asked the question publicly yet!!

I do hope that my former employers at BDO are on this. They will be, won't they? We can't be the only ones talking about his, can we? :confused:

And on the fence is where I'm staying.

If I didn't have personal experience of how carefully professional firms draft and check these things I'd write the EOS discrepancy off as a clerical error, but the apparently deliberate way it's been done strongly suggests otherwise. I haven't seen it discussed anywhere else though, and that also makes me doubt my own observations.

[ancienthibby]

[QUOTE=ancienthibby;3263936]

Yes, but the property would still be in the old company.... leaving it open to purchase by someone who had no intention of using it as a football stadium.

I should have said that Wattie & Co would buy the stadium and all the 'excluded' property, all the players would ignore Yorkie man and flock to Watty and Watty Junior and all would be sweetness and light at hunpox as the fans bought ST's in their tens of thousands!

As you have said, no one else have focussed on this question of 'excluded property'. Has Jim McColl been reading this thread?:greengrin

[1two]

Anyone care to summarise this weeks farce and summarise the likely out one if it all?

I'm confused

[Andy74]

Does the Green company have the players now if he has completed a purchase of the assets?

[Caversham Green]

[QUOTE=CropleyWasGod;3263935]
Surely a quick e-mail to a paper or the Channel 4 dude is in order just in case this has been missed.

Paul McConville did a blog about errors in the CVA when it first came out. I intended to email him about it then, but couldn't find a contact address and then dropped the ball a bit. I'ts actually a bit late now that the CVA is oot the windae.

[CropleyWasGod]

[QUOTE=CropleyWasGod;3263941]

I should have said that Wattie & Co would buy the stadium and all the 'excluded' property, all the players would ignore Yorkie man and flock to Watty and Watty Junior and all would be sweetness and light at hunpox as the fans bought ST's in their tens of thousands!

As you have said, no one else have focussed on this question of 'excluded property'. Has Jim McColl been reading this thread?:greengrin

Nah..he's in the gairden, tending to his beeeyootiful roases, George.

[CropleyWasGod]

Does the Green company have the players now if he has completed a purchase of the assets?

He thinks he does...but I would suggest even that is in doubt. The SPFA will want to put their oar in, I'm sure. I am no expert in employment law, but as I understand it... the players contracts CAN be transferred under TUPE legislation, but they don't HAVE to be if the players don't want them to be.

[ScottB]

I'm wondering where we are headed next.

We have Greene appearing to own the bits of the oldco that are worth owning, however the fans have been turned against him, as Tom English pointed out last night, that McCoist story was too good to be true for the sudden arrival of the Smith consortium. The succulent lamb returns already it would seem...

So, the fans want Greene out, and are being told not to buy season tickets. So Greene owns a club with no income stream, and likely no, or very few players. The big question is, does he throw in the towel and sell up to Smith, or does he dig his heels in and demand his pound of flesh for his troubles...

This could easily drag on long enough that no club emerges in time for next season, or perhaps even 2 seperate Rangers clubs try and bid for league entry, or Greene keeps Ibrox and Murray Park to lease back to a Smith Rangers.

In short. it's a mess!

[CropleyWasGod]

Ok, any tweeters out there?

I am trying to drop Alex Thomson a note, as suggested, but it seems the boy don't do emailing. Only this Tweety Pie stuff, which I don't. I don't mind drafting the question, if someone else can fire the bullet.....

[green glory]

Ok, any tweeters out there?

I am trying to drop Alex Thomson a note, as suggested, but it seems the boy don't do emailing. Only this Tweety Pie stuff, which I don't. I don't mind drafting the question, if someone else can fire the bullet.....

Already did it 10 mins ago.

[CropleyWasGod]

Already did it 10 mins ago.

What a team :greengrin

[green glory]

Actually give me your wording and I'll copy and paste into another tweet.

[sahib]

Green buys Gers for 5.5M. Sells to Walty for say 20M, almost immediately
Why was this, suddenly, desireable company/ assets not sold for more in the interests of the creditors? A public auction would have been interesting.

[Spike Mandela]

Ok, any tweeters out there?

I am trying to drop Alex Thomson a note, as suggested, but it seems the boy don't do emailing. Only this Tweety Pie stuff, which I don't. I don't mind drafting the question, if someone else can fire the bullet.....

The Scots law blog welcomes guest writers CWG and he does seem to have the eyes and ears of a few journos.

http://scotslawthoughts.wordpress.com/anyone-want-to-contribute-to-the-blog/

[ancienthibby]

I'm wondering where we are headed next.

We have Greene appearing to own the bits of the oldco that are worth owning, however the fans have been turned against him, as Tom English pointed out last night, that McCoist story was too good to be true for the sudden arrival of the Smith consortium. The succulent lamb returns already it would seem...

So, the fans want Greene out, and are being told not to buy season tickets. So Greene owns a club with no income stream, and likely no, or very few players. The big question is, does he throw in the towel and sell up to Smith, or does he dig his heels in and demand his pound of flesh for his troubles...

This could easily drag on long enough that no club emerges in time for next season, or perhaps even 2 seperate Rangers clubs try and bid for league entry, or Greene keeps Ibrox and Murray Park to lease back to a Smith Rangers.

In short. it's a mess!

He has apparently told Wattie this morning that his price is £20 million.(per BBC Gossip)

The real negotiation begins!

[jgl07]

He thinks he does...but I would suggest even that is in doubt. The SPFA will want to put their oar in, I'm sure. I am no expert in employment law, but as I understand it... the players contracts CAN be transferred under TUPE legislation, but they don't HAVE to be if the players don't want them to be.

Every expert on employment law has confirmed that after an insolvency event, the employees can choose to opt out of transferring to the Newco. Those that wish to transfer can provided that the terms are the same. Those that want to walk can do and sign for other clubs as free agents.

Green has come over as a complete idiot on this. I am sure that the Scottish PFA have got this one right.

Expect an exodus any time now.

[Spike Mandela]

https://twitter.com/frankieboyle/status/213574306028978177

[Darth Hibbie]

Ok, any tweeters out there?

I am trying to drop Alex Thomson a note, as suggested, but it seems the boy don't do emailing. Only this Tweety Pie stuff, which I don't. I don't mind drafting the question, if someone else can fire the bullet.....


He's getting it tight this morning from some rangers fans because he suggested saint watler should disclose his involvement in EBT's. Word something up for me and I will ask him. The more the merrier as they say.

[Andy74]

Every expert on employment law has confirmed that after an insolvency event, the employees can choose to opt out of transferring to the Newco. Those that wish to transfer can provided that the terms are the same. Those that want to walk can do and sign for other clubs as free agents.

Green has come over as a complete idiot on this. I am sure that the Scottish PFA have got this one right.

Expect an exodus any time now.

I think what I was asking was, as of yesterday, did the sale include the players, if so, are they sitting in Newco and they can still choose to opt out or does the actual transfer to newco take longer and they still have some time to say no thanks.

[johnrebus]

Anyone care to summarise this weeks farce and summarise the likely out one if it all?

I'm confused


Green to sell to Wattie for c. £9/10m.

The Hun to be relegated to.............,


Divison One.

:cb




However.

What has happened about the investigation into D&P?
Is it still possible for the creditors to challenge the sale of Hun to Green?

[green glory]

I think what I was asking was, as of yesterday, did the sale include the players, if so, are they sitting in Newco and they can still choose to opt out or does the actual transfer to newco take longer and they still have some time to say no thanks.

The players can opt out or in, it's their choice, not Greenies despite what he's said.

[H18sry]

Rangers Football Club PLC (in administration – or is that now in liquidation?) is no longer eligible to hold an SPL share. It does not have a ground, it cannot run a youth development system, it has major financial issues. Remember that those overdue accounts are now due today. It fails to meet many of the SPL membership criteria.

So the next Board meeting of the SPL should ask for the share to be remitted to the league. The former football club should take no more part in discussions on the future of an organisation it will not be a part of.

Sevco 5088 (trading as The Rangers Football Club) is not yet a football club. We are told that it now owns Ibrox Stadium and Murray Park, but does it employ any footballers? Does it have a youth development system? Can it meet the SPL’s financial regulations?

This is not as simple as Sevco winning 8 votes – and that should be 8 of 11 SPL members by the time a decisions is made. Before its application can be voted on it must be assessed against all of the membership criteria. :wink:

[hibbyfrankie]

Forgive me if this has already been mentioned. The sheep seem to believe that there might not even be a vote. I really hope this aint being thought of as a way out for those on the voting fence. http://www.eveningexpress.co.uk/Article.aspx/2811915

[StevieC]

If, big IF as we've discussed, the property is still in the OldCo, the liquidation process would put it up for sale in the open market.

Maybe it's been passed on to CW, in the same way that Green picked up the rest of the assets for a bargain, in order to avoid them going through the liquidation process?

It does seem strange that HMRC would let all the assets go for £5.5m knowing that the liquidator could get much more on the open market .. unless, as has been pointed out, a lot of the property assets are NOT included in the £5.5m sale.

[CropleyWasGod]

Actually give me your wording and I'll copy and paste into another tweet.

okay.. something like this.

"Thus far, there seems to be a general assumption in the mainstream media that Charles Green has purchased all of the assets of Rangers for £5.5m. Those assets, it is assumed, include all of the properties. However, no-one has actually questioned this assumption.
In the CVA proposal (page 37), there is a Expected Outcome Statement, which shows the outcomes of the three main scenarios, ie CVA, transfer to NewCo, and liquidation. Under the NewCo heading, the payment of £5.5m is split between £200k for the exclusivity fee, and £5.3m for Goodwill, Players' Contracts and Intellectual Property Rights. There is no value shown for Property. Does this mean that (a) the property is valued at £nil or (b) the property was not transferred to the NewCo. This is crucial in terms of the position of the creditors of RFC, and of course the proposed liquidation, but, as I say, nobody has aked the question.
The CVA document is confusing and possibly misleading. Was this the intention of the administrators?"

[Paisley Hibby]

[QUOTE=Paisley Hibby;3263916]

I'm actually saying the opposite of that. The Estimated Outcome Statement shows very clearly that the property is not included in the sale to newco, but the document as a whole and subsequent comments by D&P and others give the impression that the property is included. If the EOS part is not a mistake then D&P have been working very hard to convince creditors that a CVA was the best possible outcome whilst not revealing the whole story - that the properties were not a part of the Newco settlement.

Well I can't see the EOS part being a mistake. So as you have been suggesting, D&P need to be asked to explain in public why they have written an EOS that does not include the property. Unless they say it's a mistake (and how crap will they look if they do) then their answer will be interesting.

[Darth Hibbie]

okay.. something like this.

"Thus far, there seems to be a general assumption in the mainstream media that Charles Green has purchased all of the assets of Rangers for £5.5m. Those assets, it is assumed, include all of the properties. However, no-one has actually questioned this assumption.
In the CVA proposal (page 37), there is a Expected Outcome Statement, which shows the outcomes of the three main scenarios, ie CVA, transfer to NewCo, and liquidation. Under the NewCo heading, the payment of £5.5m is split between £200k for the exclusivity fee, and £5.3m for Goodwill, Players' Contracts and Intellectual Property Rights. There is no value shown for Property. Does this mean that (a) the property is valued at £nil or (b) the property was not transferred to the NewCo. This is crucial in terms of the position of the creditors of RFC, and of course the proposed liquidation, but, as I say, nobody has aked the question.
The CVA document is confusing and possibly misleading. Was this the intention of the administrators?"

Twitter limits you to 140 characters :greengrin

Have condensed it a bit and sent it over several tweets. Will see if I get any reply.

[Darth Hibbie]

It seems to me that Green is knows nothing about Scottish Football or is so argent that he thinks he can do whatever he wants!!!!!

- Claims that it is all HMRC's fault because the rejected the CVA and he thought the would accept it even though we all knew there was no way it was going to be accepted by them
- Claims that all the players transfer to newco when we know they do not
- Is going to spend millions on the team even though he appears not to have any investors and is planning on paying the creditors nothing
- An apparently misleading CVA proposal or an extremely undervalued dodgy deal with D&P

It really is nothing more than propaganda without any factual basis and the ibrox masses are taking it in hook line and sinker.

[johnrebus]

It seems to me that Green is knows nothing about Scottish Football or is so argent that he thinks he can do whatever he wants!!!!!

- Claims that it is all HMRC's fault because the rejected the CVA and he thought the would accept it even though we all knew there was no way it was going to be accepted by them
- Claims that all the players transfer to newco when we know they do not
- Is going to spend millions on the team even though he appears not to have any investors and is planning on paying the creditors nothing
- An apparently misleading CVA proposal or an extremely undervalued dodgy deal with D&P

It really is nothing more than propaganda without any factual basis and the ibrox masses are taking it in hook line and sinker.


Charles Green is a smart cookie.

He will walk away from this in a few days having trousered a few million quid for a few weeks work.


Which was always his only intention.



:cb

[Offside Trap]

Just tweeted the following to Tom English:

@TomEnglishSport (https://twitter.com/#!/TomEnglishSport) Tom are we sure Ibrox&MP incl in sale to CG? Look at CVA Page 37 Sch 4 NewCo column. Freehold property not included. Odd?!

[green glory]

okay.. something like this.

"Thus far, there seems to be a general assumption in the mainstream media that Charles Green has purchased all of the assets of Rangers for £5.5m. Those assets, it is assumed, include all of the properties. However, no-one has actually questioned this assumption.
In the CVA proposal (page 37), there is a Expected Outcome Statement, which shows the outcomes of the three main scenarios, ie CVA, transfer to NewCo, and liquidation. Under the NewCo heading, the payment of £5.5m is split between £200k for the exclusivity fee, and £5.3m for Goodwill, Players' Contracts and Intellectual Property Rights. There is no value shown for Property. Does this mean that (a) the property is valued at £nil or (b) the property was not transferred to the NewCo. This is crucial in terms of the position of the creditors of RFC, and of course the proposed liquidation, but, as I say, nobody has aked the question.
The CVA document is confusing and possibly misleading. Was this the intention of the administrators?"

Too much for a tweet, I have however sent it to his and Phil Mac's blogs, and I've tweeted the both to check my comments. Here's hoping.

[Caversham Green]

[QUOTE=Caversham Green;3263931]

Well I can't see the EOS part being a mistake. So as you have been suggesting, D&P need to be asked to explain in public why they have written an EOS that does not include the property. Unless they say it's a mistake (and how crap will they look if they do) then their answer will be interesting.

I've now emailed Paul McConville at the address linked by Spike - I'll report back if he comes up with anything interesting.

[CropleyWasGod]

[QUOTE=Paisley Hibby;3264035]

I've now emailed Paul McConville at the address linked by Spike - I'll report back if he comes up with anything interesting.

I have also made my debut on his blog.

[SMAXXA]

Just out of interest, is this the biggest thread in Hibs.net history?

[Kato]

Is Walter's Myth a fit and proper person to be owning a Scottish Football club?

[joe breezy]

Is Walter's Myth a fit and proper person to be owning a Scottish Football club?

Indeed

[WindyMiller]

[QUOTE=Caversham Green;3264060]

I have also made my debut on his blog.

He put this up earlier

http://scotslawthoughts.wordpress.com/2012/06/15/what-has-charles-green-bought-for-his-5-5-million-an-instant-profit/#more-1280

[Paisley Hibby]

Forgive me if this has already been mentioned. The sheep seem to believe that there might not even be a vote. I really hope this aint being thought of as a way out for those on the voting fence. http://www.eveningexpress.co.uk/Article.aspx/2811915

Oh FFS! I had a feeling the other SPL clubs would try to find a way out of making the decision. Why on earth would they need to pay advisers to tell them what to do here? The glaringly obvious answer is so that Newhun can take Oldhun's place in the SPL and the clubs can blame someone else for it. If this is right then they are even bigger hypocritical cowards than I thought.

[Paisley Hibby]

[QUOTE=CropleyWasGod;3264066]

He put this up earlier

http://scotslawthoughts.wordpress.com/2012/06/15/what-has-charles-green-bought-for-his-5-5-million-an-instant-profit/#more-1280

That seems pretty clear cut? Green seems to have got himself the property as well as the whole rancid club for a bargain basement price.

[MB62]

[QUOTE=CropleyWasGod;3264066]

He put this up earlier

http://scotslawthoughts.wordpress.com/2012/06/15/what-has-charles-green-bought-for-his-5-5-million-an-instant-profit/#more-1280

So he DOES now own Ibrox and Murray Park. Something stinks very badly about all of this.

[1two]

Just out of interest, is this the biggest thread in Hibs.net history?

I think so, it certainly dwarfs the calendar thread.

Has anyone else ever been overshadowed by a load of hun *****?

[Seveno]

What does Scottish football have in common with Denmark and Sweden ?

Well, they are small countries so that's a tick. Scotland has larger crowds at their games (with or without the Old Firm) so not really a tick there.

What they decidedly do not have in common though is that neither of those countries have any clubs as 'massive' as Celtic or Rangers.

Oh, and they are In the Euros.

[johnrebus]

[QUOTE=WindyMiller;3264124]

So he DOES now own Ibrox and Murray Park. Something stinks very badly about all of this.


Yes, it does, but who cares if Green trousers a few millions if it has the Hun in such a frenzy?


:not worth

[ScottB]

Allow me to go all paranoid / conspiratorial for a moment...

David Murray realises he's up the brown creek with no form of propulsion, his best buddies at the bank are gone, and if rumours are to be believed, the law is taking an interest. Rangers are even further up said creek once the taxman has done his work. His ego couldn't stand be seen as 'the man who killed Rangers' so a patsy is found to take the fall; in rides Craig Whyte. Whyte milks the club for all its worth and sets it firmly on course for liquidation, making sure an already irked Hector will be positively itching to nail them to the wall.

The inevitable happens and the club ends up in administration, in the capable hands of Whyte's good friends Duff & Phelps. Despite the absence of any logic D&P keep the club fully intact with almost no layoffs. They continually name check every bidder they can, save one, dragging out the process to the nth degree. Then suddenly Mr Greene emerges, apparently in the running since February, but never, ever mentioned by the otherwise very chatty Administrators.

As Greene's bid progresses, we begin seeing stories emerging in the press, who are his backers? Does he have the cash? A press normally happy to accept all things Rangers as gospel. Then, on liquidation day we get the clearly nonsensical story that Greene wants Super Ally out. The Blue hoards are baying for blood and then, riding to the last minute rescue comes Walter Smith and his cadre of super rich good Scottish Rangers men who were all surprisingly absent when the club was in desperate need of a serious bidder.


Now, am I the only one that at the least sees some conspiracies in that? If not one overarching one. Should Greene and his unknown investors disappear easily for a few million extra in the coming days then I think it is. Has this been a plan from day one to get a healthy, debt free Rangers back in business in the hands of men that 'Sir' Murray would approve of?

Suspicious much says I...

[calmac12000]

:top marks

Semt mine too.

[Andy74]

[QUOTE=MB62;3264138]


Yes, it does, but who cares if Green trousers a few millions if it has the Hun in such a frenzy?


:not worth

As it's money that should rightfully be paid to HMRC in the main, like what happens to a large chunk of my wages every month?

[Peevemor]

Allow me to go all paranoid / conspiratorial for a moment...



That's not so daft. I thought of David Murray as soon as Wattie stuck his head over the parapet. :agree:

[johnrebus]

[QUOTE=johnrebus;3264146]

As it's money that should rightfully be paid to HMRC in the main, like what happens to a large chunk of my wages every month?


A fair point, but why are HMRC not challenging the sale?

They - presumably - have the power?


:confused:

[Paisley Hibby]

[QUOTE=WindyMiller;3264124]

That seems pretty clear cut? Green seems to have got himself the property as well as the whole rancid club for a bargain basement price.

Should have added that CAV is right, the table comparing the financial outcome for creditors from each of the 3 scenarios (CVA, Newco and straight liquidation) is very misleading.

D&P seem to say that just the club itself (ie the goodwill, Intellectual Property rights, players contract and stock) is worth £5.5m. I say "worth" but it's not based on a valuation, it's simply the figure they have allocated against those items in the outcomes table. They also say that under pure liquidation, the real estate on its own is worth £4.59m. So a fair reading of D&Ps figures would be that under the Newco proposal, Green would get £10.09m worth of assets for £5.5m. How can D&P possibly justify legally committing creditors to such a deal in the event of CVA rejection?

[VickMackie]

If the old co are going to exist to get in the fixture plan how can they be considered if theyv sold their stadium?

[Andy74]

If the old co are going to exist to get in the fixture plan how can they be considered if theyv sold their stadium?

Agree, if they don't have any players or a stadium how can they continue to be considered as a football club?

At the moment there seems to be two companies - neither of which is set up to play football at this stage.

Dundee should be getting the invite as we speak.

[ScottB]

[QUOTE=Andy74;3264159]


A fair point, but why are HMRC not challenging the sale?

They - presumably - have the power?


:confused:

More to the point, now a new group has appeared, apparently willing to pay more, can't the creditors reverse the sale to Greene and punt it to Wattie n co?

[ScottB]

That's not so daft. I thought of David Murray as soon as Wattie stuck his head over the parapet. :agree:

Definitely, there's no way he has a vast pot of cash, and somebody must have 'brought' this group of 'Rangers men' together.

Impossible that Murray isn't involved in some capacity.

[JimBHibees]

Is it right that all the EBT's, Dual contracts, big tax case are now all dead in the water as they are linked to the old company? If so this IMO is nothing more than a massive whitewash. Ignore all the cheating something like on year out of the SPL then business as usual.

[Caversham Green]

So he DOES now own Ibrox and Murray Park. Something stinks very badly about all of this.

It's not set in stone yet, the blog is only Paul McConville's thoughts about things and he has got a couple of things wrong there. I'm still firmly on the fence about the property sales, but the amounts due to the oldco and the player transfer fees have not been purchased by Green according to the CVA proposal.

Having said that, you're absolutely right about the smell. The speed with which D&P managed to get the sale through is breathtaking, particularly when player's contracts were involved and each individual employee would have to be consulted. If the properties were also included you have to add the conveyancing etc to that. I hope BDO will look very closely at D&P's involvement and take any appropriate legal action against them. Meanwhile, expecting us to believe that Walter Smith has only just decided to put in a claim now is an insult to our collective intelligence.

[jgl07]

Is it right that all the EBT's, Dual contracts, big tax case are now all dead in the water as they are linked to the old company? If so this IMO is nothing more than a massive whitewash. Ignore all the cheating something like on year out of the SPL then business as usual.

They are not dead.

The BTC and the dual contracts issue are linked anyway.

If it was a real Newco with no attempt to bring the players and intellectual property then maybe that was the case.

But The Rangers Football Club will be attempting to get in the SPL on the basis of the purchase of the assets from the Oldco. If they were a completely new club they would have to seek membership of the SFA from scratch.

All the penalties can now be transferred to the Newco. If the SPL don't reject them the SFA appeal will catch them. Then there is still the dual contract enquiry to knock them over. If all else fails, FIFA will come in over the Court of Session action.

[blackpoolhibs]

Whats to stop that guy who won the euro millions, starting a new football team, and applying to join the SPL, he has more money than Rangers?

[poolman]

It's not set in stone yet, the blog is only Paul McConville's thoughts about things and he has got a couple of things wrong there. I'm still firmly on the fence about the property sales, but the amounts due to the oldco and the player transfer fees have not been purchased by Green according to the CVA proposal.

Having said that, you're absolutely right about the smell. The speed with which D&P managed to get the sale through is breathtaking, particularly when player's contracts were involved and each individual employee would have to be consulted. If the properties were also included you have to add the conveyancing etc to that. I hope BDO will look very closely at D&P's involvement and take any appropriate legal action against them. Meanwhile, expecting us to believe that Walter Smith has only just decided to put in a claim now is an insult to our collective intelligence.



Thats a bit harsh CG

One call changed everything. He phoned his best mate at the beginning of the week and when the conversation turned to Rangers the bloke on the other end of the phone broke down.

Smith told me: “I was holding the phone listening to a mate crying because he feared for his club and I knew then I couldn’t stand idle.” He made another call and said simply: “I’m in"

He's such a sucker for a sob story dontya know :greengrin

[ac1]

Allow me to go all paranoid / conspiratorial for a moment...

David Murray realises he's up the brown creek with no form of propulsion, his best buddies at the bank are gone, and if rumours are to be believed, the law is taking an interest. Rangers are even further up said creek once the taxman has done his work. His ego couldn't stand be seen as 'the man who killed Rangers' so a patsy is found to take the fall; in rides Craig Whyte. Whyte milks the club for all its worth and sets it firmly on course for liquidation, making sure an already irked Hector will be positively itching to nail them to the wall.

The inevitable happens and the club ends up in administration, in the capable hands of Whyte's good friends Duff & Phelps. Despite the absence of any logic D&P keep the club fully intact with almost no layoffs. They continually name check every bidder they can, save one, dragging out the process to the nth degree. Then suddenly Mr Greene emerges, apparently in the running since February, but never, ever mentioned by the otherwise very chatty Administrators.

As Greene's bid progresses, we begin seeing stories emerging in the press, who are his backers? Does he have the cash? A press normally happy to accept all things Rangers as gospel. Then, on liquidation day we get the clearly nonsensical story that Greene wants Super Ally out. The Blue hoards are baying for blood and then, riding to the last minute rescue comes Walter Smith and his cadre of super rich good Scottish Rangers men who were all surprisingly absent when the club was in desperate need of a serious bidder.


Now, am I the only one that at the least sees some conspiracies in that? If not one overarching one. Should Greene and his unknown investors disappear easily for a few million extra in the coming days then I think it is. Has this been a plan from day one to get a healthy, debt free Rangers back in business in the hands of men that 'Sir' Murray would approve of?

Suspicious much says I...

Something definitely strange about it all - surely some people will be serving a sentence at Barlinie in the next few years i.e former Rangers directors/chairmans. You also imagine HMRC will be looking to chat to some former players as well.

[blackpoolhibs]

[/B]Thats a bit harsh CG

One call changed everything. He phoned his best mate at the beginning of the week and when the conversation turned to Rangers the bloke on the other end of the phone broke down.

Smith told me: “I was holding the phone listening to a mate crying because he feared for his club and I knew then I couldn’t stand idle.” He made another call and said simply: “I’m in"

He's such a sucker for a sob story dontya know :greengrin

What makes this more believable, is Ally was in the changing room of the club shop trying a track suit on. :fibber:

[johnrebus]

Whats to stop that guy who won the euro millions, starting a new football team, and applying to join the SPL, he has more money than Rangers?


Well, you know the saying, 'how do you make a million out of a football club'?

Start with a hundred million..............,


:rolleyes:

[hibbyfrankie]

http://scotslawthoughts.wordpress.com/2012/05/18/neil-doncaster-cva-and-newco-whats-the-difference-as-long-as-newco-accepts-oldcos-punishment/

The way this reads to me is that Newco are not liable if they choose not to accept it. However not excepting the liabilities will probably mean no SPL. accepting the sanctions on condition of entry.

I could be wrong i am not really great at all this legal stuff.:confused:

[Spike Mandela]

Quick question regarding UEFA ban from Europe for 3 years. With newco being formed in june 2012 thus being 3 years old in June 2015 does that mean that technically with league finishing in May2015 Rangers still don't qualify for Europe in the summer of 2015 thus actually missing 4 summers of European football?

[ScottB]

http://scotslawthoughts.wordpress.com/2012/05/18/neil-doncaster-cva-and-newco-whats-the-difference-as-long-as-newco-accepts-oldcos-punishment/

The way this reads to me is that Newco are not liable if they choose not to accept it. However not excepting the liabilities will probably mean no SPL. accepting the sanctions on condition of entry.

I could be wrong i am not really great at all this legal stuff.:confused:

Well, they seem to be arguing that it is the licence that is the important entity that needs to carry on, I would argue that the punishments that are attached or will soon be attached to that licence surely have to follow it. You can't very well say 'we are buying that licence, but only the good bits that come with it, not the bad!' Which is what they are trying to do.

[Caversham Green]

Quick question regarding UEFA ban from Europe for 3 years. With newco being formed in june 2012 thus being 3 years old in June 2015 does that mean that technically with league finishing in May2015 Rangers still don't qualify for Europe in the summer of 2015 thus actually missing 4 summers of European football?

I think it does Spike. Isn't the requirement to have three years audited accounts by 31 March? If so Y/E June 2015 will not be available for the 2015-16 European campaigns since they would have to be lodged by March 2015.

[greenginger]

The Law Thoughts article is dated 18th May and since then we have seen Darlington F C relegated 4 division because they failed to agree a CVA with their creditors. This may or may not have registered with our Neil and I think it is something he needs to be forcefully reminded of.

[s.a.m]

Chris McLaughlin‏@BBCchrismclaug#SPL (http://www.hibs.net/#!/search/%23SPL) investigation into possible dual contracts at #Rangers (http://www.hibs.net/#!/search/%23Rangers) to be put on hold until there's clarity over newco accountability. #BBCSport (http://www.hibs.net/#!/search/%23BBCSport)

We're all going to be long in our graves before this is resolved :rolleyes:
Hopefully our great-grandchildren will keep the the thread alive until justice is served.

[johnrebus]

Chris McLaughlin‏@BBCchrismclaug#SPL (http://www.hibs.net/#!/search/%23SPL) investigation into possible dual contracts at #Rangers (http://www.hibs.net/#!/search/%23Rangers) to be put on hold until there's clarity over newco accountability. #BBCSport (http://www.hibs.net/#!/search/%23BBCSport)

We're all going to be long in our graves before this is resolved :rolleyes:
Hopefully our great-grandchildren will keep the the thread alive until justice is served.


Wish they would just wave them back into the SPL so that I can buy a season ticket for St James Park and be done with it all.


:rolleyes:

[Andy74]

Chris McLaughlin‏@BBCchrismclaug#SPL (http://www.hibs.net/#!/search/%23SPL) investigation into possible dual contracts at #Rangers (http://www.hibs.net/#!/search/%23Rangers) to be put on hold until there's clarity over newco accountability. #BBCSport (http://www.hibs.net/#!/search/%23BBCSport)

We're all going to be long in our graves before this is resolved :rolleyes:
Hopefully our great-grandchildren will keep the the thread alive until justice is served.

I don't see why - the previous Rangers can have titles stripped no problem.

The licence to play in SFL 3 can have equivalent sanctions applied than would have been the case if it was the orignal Rangers - take it or leave it should be the offer on that front.

[JimBHibees]

Chris McLaughlin‏@BBCchrismclaug#SPL (http://www.hibs.net/#!/search/%23SPL) investigation into possible dual contracts at #Rangers (http://www.hibs.net/#!/search/%23Rangers) to be put on hold until there's clarity over newco accountability. #BBCSport (http://www.hibs.net/#!/search/%23BBCSport)

We're all going to be long in our graves before this is resolved :rolleyes:
Hopefully our great-grandchildren will keep the the thread alive until justice is served.

Put on hold sounds awfully like the carpet being lifted and the filth brushed out of sight.

[Andy74]

Whats to stop that guy who won the euro millions, starting a new football team, and applying to join the SPL, he has more money than Rangers?

He need to ask the club with the share to transfer it to him.

He needs some fans to watch at some stage.

Newco will have the share offered by oldco and 50,000 fans ready to come back and act like nothing has happened - only probably more arrogant than before.

[Andy74]

Put on hold sounds awfully like the carpet being lifted and the filth brushed out of sight.

Yep. Complete the review then worry about how to impose the outcomes.

[blackpoolhibs]

He need to ask the club with the share to transfer it to him.

He needs some fans to watch at some stage.

Newco will have the share offered by oldco and 50,000 fans ready to come back and act like nothing has happened - only probably more arrogant than before.

Ok whats to stop the couple buying East Stirling, and then asking to play in the spl? If its all about how rich you are, he'd have them pretty flush.

[Andy74]

Ok whats to stop the couple buying East Stirling, and then asking to play in the spl? If its all about how rich you are, he'd have them pretty flush.

The current SPL share. It needs to be offered by the party that currently has it.

If he can ask oldco to transfer it to him then he'd be on his way.

[greenginger]

Chris McLaughlin‏@BBCchrismclaug#SPL (http://www.hibs.net/#%21/search/%23SPL) investigation into possible dual contracts at #Rangers (http://www.hibs.net/#%21/search/%23Rangers) to be put on hold until there's clarity over newco accountability. #BBCSport (http://www.hibs.net/#%21/search/%23BBCSport)

We're all going to be long in our graves before this is resolved :rolleyes:
Hopefully our great-grandchildren will keep the the thread alive until justice is served.


I think UEFA/FIFA needs to be brought in on this one too. If the SFA needs to seek clarification over player's contracts and the New Football Club they can can enquire about the fraudulent players contracts at the same time.

[Ryan91]

Chris McLaughlin‏@BBCchrismclaug#SPL (http://www.hibs.net/#!/search/%23SPL) investigation into possible dual contracts at #Rangers (http://www.hibs.net/#!/search/%23Rangers) to be put on hold until there's clarity over newco accountability. #BBCSport (http://www.hibs.net/#!/search/%23BBCSport)

We're all going to be long in our graves before this is resolved :rolleyes:
Hopefully our great-grandchildren will keep the the thread alive until justice is served.

Move along - nothing to see here, this is perfectly normal procedure.

[Dalkeith]

Wish they would just wave them back into the SPL so that I can buy a season ticket for St James Park and be done with it all.


:rolleyes:

not decided if ts newcastle/sunderland or Newtongrange star for me

[ancienthibby]

I think UEFA/FIFA needs to be brought in on this one too. If the SFA needs to seek clarification over player's contracts and the New Football Club they can can enquire about the fraudulent players contracts at the same time.

Update on BBC blog by Chrismac - puts a different slant on things:


http://a0.twimg.com/profile_images/2179094491/chrisNEW_normal.jpg (http://twitter.com/BBCchrismclaug)

#SPL source: Part of newco application for membership could depend on them taking responsibility for possible past transgressions. #Rangers @BBCchrismclaug (http://twitter.com/BBCchrismclaug) 32 minutes ago

[JimBHibees]

Yep. Complete the review then worry about how to impose the outcomes.

Exactly, absolutely no reason for this decision at this stage as it could effectively make the vote null and void in that if they are clearly found guilty then it would make the decision alot easier. That this hasnt happened means to me that the Authorities dont want a clear mandate to vote them out. Only in Scotland.