Generic Sevco / Rangers meltdown thread

[Leithenhibby]

Would anyone else s****** ever so slightly if its now announced that the Big Tax Case has went in Rangers favour? Be honest.....


Honestly, I'd be gutted. I don't want, and never will want them to get anything.

This has been coming for a good long time now and sadly the end to this thread also.

Bring on the next contestant :aok:

[Lungo--Drom]

I would accept Govan Hun FC being accepted into SFL Division 3 too, but if they are allowed straight into the SPL then I will refuse to recognise them and never attend or watch a match that they play in. The SPL chairmen must stand together and show that they too are not crooks and dodgy dealers and fast buck merchants but chairmen of sports clubs.

All hail The Tache, all hail sporting integrity!

:not worth




Answered few pages up...SPL dual contract investigation could still leave them open to 'charges'...From Hectors point of view its over (other than seeking to nail historical owners / directors)



To be fair to D&P (hard as that is) Rangers made themselves toxic and worth diddly squat...like selling pork for a Jewish wedding feast




Div 3 would be my favoured route---and should ensure all those saying they would not go back without punishment will fill ER to the brim

[Bishop Hibee]

BDO the liquidators of Rangers FC have made a statement

BDO partners Malcolm Cohen and James Stephen will be appointed joint-liquidators to the old company, although no timescale for when this will happen has been made available.

Cohen said: "Once BDO is formally appointed, the joint liquidators will be seeking to protect any remaining assets, maximise recoveries for the benefit of creditors, and investigate the reasons behind the failure of the company.

"It is right that there is a full and robust investigation into why the company failed, together with concerted efforts to recover monies for creditors and the taxpayer. This may include pursuit of possible claims against those responsible for the financial affairs of the company in previous years."

David Murray could be in for some hard labour. Wonder if Campbell Ogilvie will get off scot free?

Happy day K. Hopefully BDO will be thorough in their investigations. Ogilvie is as guilty as sin in my opinion and hopefully Hertz will be drawn into the mire at some point.

We need Petrie and 3 other SPL Chairmen to do the right thing and then the coffin lid will be closed with the stake firmly driven through the heart of the beast.

[GreenCastle]

The SPL doesn't need Rangers - several media outlets have printed reports over the last few weeks explaining the amount of money Rangers bring is isn't as much as people make out. The chances are season ticket sales will improve if Rangers are fairly kicked out :agree:

Can someone answer these questions please -

1. When is the vote of the clubs to say whether or not they want Rangers in the SPL ? (Do Dunfermline or Ross County vote?)
2. T.V deal - what happens to this ? Will it be re-negotiated if Rangers are kicked out ?
3. If Rangers are kicked out - how does that affect the other teams in the club ? Youth Teams / Women's Team ?
4. Who would take their position in the SPL if they are booted out ?
5. Will the SPL release fixtures on Monday and will the SPL kick off on time?
6. Will Rangers be banned from competing in the League and Scottish Cup ?

Thanks :aok:

[GordonHFC]

So Rangers last 2 owners where Green & Whyte and the last player they signed was Celik. You really couldn't make this up. :faf:

What are the chances of Victor Gold coming in with a late bid to partner Green and Whyte :greengrin

[monktonharp]

The year we went from 10 to 12 teams the Dons finished bottom, but obviously there was no relegation. This wasn't done to save them.

In any case, Rangers haven't finished bottom, they've ceased to exist.correct,:agree: Rangers is now a non-word:greengrin

[Moulin Yarns]

If it comes to liquidation, all the assets will be sold. IIRC, there will be no value in the players, as I think their contracts are cancelled or revert to the SFA.

The proceeds of those sales will be distributed amongst the creditors pro rata. HMRC will still get much less than their original claim, as will everyone else, but almost certainly more than they would have under the CVA.


For the record, RFC are not yet in liquidation. D&P are still administrators, and still have much of their job to do.

I was saying the very same to one of our finance folks at lunchtime. by selling off the assests at realistic prices more will be raised.

a quick question. after Thursday's confirmation that the CVA is dead, do Duff and Phelps get added to the list of creditors, or do they still get all that's due them?

[monktonharp]

What are the chances of Victor Gold coming in with a late bid to partner Green and Whyte :greengringreen white and gold, oh, the bells o' hell go ting-a-ling-a-ling ...............fur you ya ex-hun b.......s

[ScottB]

If New Rangers want their old clubs history as there own, fine, but they should have to take the lot, its many punishments with it. I object to the notion that they can buy just the good bits.

Also at this stage, with the Tribunal possibly likely to suspend or terminate the Oldco's SFA licence, how can there possibly be a transfer? The Newco needs to start from scratch with its own licence and apply for entry into Division 3. Anything else is simply unacceptable.

[Leithenhibby]

I was saying the very same to one of our finance folks at lunchtime. by selling off the assests at realistic prices more will be raised.

a quick question. after Thursday's confirmation that the CVA is dead, do Duff and Phelps get added to the list of creditors, or do they still get all that's due them?


I understand that they do! :rolleyes:

********* shysters ...

[cwilliamson85]

What way do you see the votes going? Below is how I think the voting will go.

Aberdeen - No to getting back in.
Celtic - No to getting back in.
Dundee Utd - No to getting back in.
Hearts - Yes to getting back in.
Hibernian - No to getting back in.
Inverness CT - ??
Kilmarnock - Yes to getting back in.
Motherwell - ??
Rangers - Yes to getting back in.
Ross County - ??
St Johnstone - ??
St Mirren - Yes to getting back in.

[GordonHFC]

If New Rangers want their old clubs history as there own, fine, but they should have to take the lot, its many punishments with it. I object to the notion that they can buy just the good bits.

Also at this stage, with the Tribunal possibly likely to suspend or terminate the Oldco's SFA licence, how can there possibly be a transfer? The Newco needs to start from scratch with its own licence and apply for entry into Division 3. Anything else is simply unacceptable.

Wouldn't it be tremendous if the SFL told them to bolt as well :thumbsup:

[CropleyWasGod]

I was saying the very same to one of our finance folks at lunchtime. by selling off the assests at realistic prices more will be raised.

a quick question. after Thursday's confirmation that the CVA is dead, do Duff and Phelps get added to the list of creditors, or do they still get all that's due them?

As I said above, D&P will still be administrators. Plan B will be put into operation.

Their fees are secured.

[Bishop Hibee]

Colin Hendry "the Old Firm are the SPL"
Alex Rae "HMRC have done us over"
Gordon Smith "we were told the CVA would be accepted" eh by who? your Mum.

These guys are muppets and the most ignorant men on the planet.

These morons need to get their heads out the sand. The 'wearapeepol' mentality is such that it still hasn't sunk in with most of the ******s that they are in deep crap and it's hopefully going to get deeper.

C'mon Petrie, say no to a newco :agree:

[ancienthibby]

What way do you see the votes going? Below is how I think the voting will go.

Aberdeen - No to getting back in.
Celtic - No to getting back in.
Dundee Utd - No to getting back in.
Hearts - Yes to getting back in.
Hibernian - No to getting back in.
Inverness CT - ??
Kilmarnock - Yes to getting back in.
Motherwell - ??
Rangers - Yes to getting back in.
Ross County - ??
St Johnstone - ??
St Mirren - Yes to getting back in.

If Stewart Gilmour is still Chairman at St Mkirren, then his recent words would suggest a large NO!

[Andy74]

What way do you see the votes going? Below is how I think the voting will go.

Aberdeen - No to getting back in.
Celtic - No to getting back in.
Dundee Utd - No to getting back in.
Hearts - Yes to getting back in.
Hibernian - No to getting back in.
Inverness CT - ??
Kilmarnock - Yes to getting back in.
Motherwell - ??
Rangers - Yes to getting back in.
Ross County - ??
St Johnstone - ??
St Mirren - Yes to getting back in.

There is no danger Celtic will vote no.

[Kato]

When will the ex-Rangers players, the (now ex:na na:) Rangers fans and the (now ex:na na:) Rangers sympathetic journalists going to realise they were shafted by one person, and one person only. Sir (but not for long) David Murray? When does their ire turn on him?

[Thecat23]

It's just like a school bully being expelled. The bully was taking everyone's lunch money and buying a roast while we were left with no frills beans everyday. Just because he changes his name and offers us say 10p to every £1 he's taken, doesn't mean he's allowed back in. Boot the bullies out and take a stand.

[Leithenhibby]

What way do you see the votes going? Below is how I think the voting will go.

Aberdeen - No to getting back in.
Celtic - No to getting back in.
Dundee Utd - No to getting back in.
Hearts - Yes to getting back in.
Hibernian - No to getting back in.
Inverness CT - ??
Kilmarnock - Yes to getting back in.
Motherwell - ??
Rangers - Yes to getting back in.
Ross County - ??
St Johnstone - ??
St Mirren - Yes to getting back in.

The dead ones don't get a vote!! .. Do they? ... :rolleyes:

[magpie1892]

If I was married to the state of his bird I'd be keeping my head under the parapet.

[PatHead]

What way do you see the votes going? Below is how I think the voting will go.

Aberdeen - No to getting back in.
Celtic - No to getting back in.
Dundee Utd - No to getting back in.
Hearts - Yes to getting back in.
Hibernian - No to getting back in.
Inverness CT - ??
Kilmarnock - Yes to getting back in.
Motherwell - ??
Rangers - Yes to getting back in.
Ross County - ??
St Johnstone - ??
St Mirren - Yes to getting back in.

Dundee Utd will vote yes to getting back in but with additional sanctions.

I think most clubs will go down this route and it will depend on whether Rangers accept the sanctions or feel they would be better off in D3 "weakening" the opposition in the process. A lot of horse trading and brinkmanship will take place with both sides trying to not lose face.

[Leithenhibby]

Dundee Utd will vote yes to getting back in but with additional sanctions.

I think most clubs will go down this route and it will depend on whether Rangers accept the sanctions or feel they would be better off in D3 "weakening" the opposition in the process. A lot of horse trading and brinkmanship will take place with both sides trying to not lose face.


I'm not so sure, we still have the "dual contracts" (maybe), and they have still to be punished for going to Court.. + BTC

Perhaps this thread will run for another month or two :greengrin

[PatHead]

Alex Thompson interrupts his holiday with a blog

http://blogs.channel4.com/alex-thomsons-view/rangers-taxman-walk/1899

[MyJo]

The SPL doesn't need Rangers - several media outlets have printed reports over the last few weeks explaining the amount of money Rangers bring is isn't as much as people make out. The chances are season ticket sales will improve if Rangers are fairly kicked out :agree:

Can someone answer these questions please -

1. When is the vote of the clubs to say whether or not they want Rangers in the SPL ? (Do Dunfermline or Ross County vote?)
2. T.V deal - what happens to this ? Will it be re-negotiated if Rangers are kicked out ?
3. If Rangers are kicked out - how does that affect the other teams in the club ? Youth Teams / Women's Team ?
4. Who would take their position in the SPL if they are booted out ?
5. Will the SPL release fixtures on Monday and will the SPL kick off on time?
6. Will Rangers be banned from competing in the League and Scottish Cup ?

Thanks :aok:

1 - when it's clear that rangers are non-existing and any new club set up in thier place applies to be readmitted to the spl, your guess is a s good as mine basically.

2 - tv deal stipulates 4 old firm games a season are required, if that isn't the case then I would assume it would be withdrawn by sky/espn or renegotiated.

3 - they are all kapoot!

4 - fairest decision would be to allow dunfermline back in to the spl.

5 - spl will release fixtures with rangers there provisionally I would assume and In the event of them being booted out then Dunfermline just take over thier fixtures in the list

6 - doubt it

[KdyHby]

Hopefully, Hibs will take this opportunity to rebrand the season ticket deal

http://www.hibernianfc.co.uk/page/seasonticketmemberships

[PatHead]

1 - when it's clear that rangers are non-existing and any new club set up in thier place applies to be readmitted to the spl, your guess is a s good as mine basically.

2 - tv deal stipulates 4 old firm games a season are required, if that isn't the case then I would assume it would be withdrawn by sky/espn or renegotiated.

3 - they are all kapoot!

4 - fairest decision would be to allow dunfermline back in to the spl.

5 - spl will release fixtures with rangers there provisionally I would assume and In the event of them being booted out then Dunfermline just take over thier fixtures in the list

6 - doubt it

Dundee have prior rights under the rules. If I was them I would be preparing an application as we speak and threatening legal action if they were declined.

[joe breezy]

I'm reporting Charles Green for tax evasion based in him attempting to buy assets of a liquidated company, those assets which should be sold to help pay creditors

Not sure what will happen but worth a shot

https://online.hmrc.gov.uk/shortforms/form/TEH_IRF?dept-name=TEH&sub-dept-name=&location=39&origin=http://www.hmrc.gov.uk

[stoneyburn hibs]

There is no danger Celtic will vote no.

Agree , not a chance as there will be far too much dough for them to lose.

Thats been about 5 hours since the news broke and i for one am gutted as i have seen not 1 Rangers fan , all i want to do is walk by and smirk.

[cwilliamson85]

There is no danger Celtic will vote no.

Even with the presuure of the fans?

[PatHead]

There is no danger Celtic will vote no.

Not so sure. They are pretty much guaranteed Champions League football for 3 years. They could make more from that than 2 home Rangers games a season and Rangers would bite their hands off for a 2 legged Glasgow Cup final.

[iwasthere1972]

Will we be able to see how each club voted or will it just be a case of being told how many said "Aye" and how many said "Naw"?

[GreenCastle]

Agree , not a chance as there will be far too much dough for them to lose.

Thats been about 5 hours since the news broke and i for one am gutted as i have seen not 1 Rangers fan , all i want to do is walk by and smirk.

Disagree - Celtic will become richer without the huns - basically winning the league every year - guaranteed European Football (Champions League) - 1st pick on players wanting to play in the SPL.

Surely their fans would be in uproar if they wanted to keep them in the league also :agree:

[Hovehibby]

According to this:

http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/football/18410999

16:29 timestamp

der new hun will have one of the 12 votes

????????:furious:

[TowerHibs]

SPL confirm that Rangers will appear in the fixture lists on Monday and that they also get to vote to get themselve back into the SPL - so already have 12.5% of the votes they need

[Hainan Hibs]

I just don't understand how they can try to defend that club.

It CHEATED the public out of money. Money which could and should have went to schools, hospitals, public projects didn't because Rangers decided to not pay tax and go for glory instead.

Division 3 is the least they should be given as punishment.

[Andy74]

Disagree - Celtic will become richer without the huns - basically winning the league every year - guaranteed European Football (Champions League) - 1st pick on players wanting to play in the SPL.

Surely their fans would be in uproar if they wanted to keep them in the league also :agree:

I think their joint sponsors would have a thing or two to say about it.

The fans might hate each other but the two clubs work together on a number of things and I just can't see them voting against them.

There's a lot of money and interest in the Old Firm aspect too - and long term I think they would be bored walking a league every year.

The rest of the SPL doesn't need Rangers, but Celtic do.

[Gus Fring]

Ally McCoist - "We don't do walking away" - 16th Feb 2012
The Taxman - "Neither do we" - 11th June 2012

[JimBHibees]

Alex Thompson interrupts his holiday with a blog

http://blogs.channel4.com/alex-thomsons-view/rangers-taxman-walk/1899

Absolutely superb. The succulent lamb has gone off. All tabloid lap dogs hang your head in shame.

[CropleyWasGod]

I'm reporting Charles Green for tax evasion based in him attempting to buy assets of a liquidated company, those assets which should be sold to help pay creditors

Not sure what will happen but worth a shot

https://online.hmrc.gov.uk/shortforms/form/TEH_IRF?dept-name=TEH&sub-dept-name=&location=39&origin=http://www.hmrc.gov.uk

They are not in liquidation.

There is no explicit tax evasion involved in buying a liquidated company's assets.

[alnewhaven]

Intersting that the Revenue are going after individuals http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-glasgow-west-18409172

I assume that their actions (or inaction in some cases?) are not covered by limited liability?

[PatHead]

For anyone who can't open the link. Best most succulent lamb I have read.

Today’s the day the taxman, in the shape of HMRC, said not only will he not be walking away from Rangers, but that they, the HMRC, “are the people”. And the people not only want their money back from this catastrophically mismanaged “football club”, but now they want to come after the men who reduced the once proud name of Ibrox to a pathetic byword for toxic governance.
And that is the real story.
It is not often that you are on holiday and find your plans are interrupted by the Voice of the Taxman, and it is hardly ever anything but bad news, I would imagine. But I have to report barely concealed joy and enthusiasm from my contact in HMRC who once memorably told me, referring to Rangers Football Club: “Remember our Eleventh Commandment, Alex – Thou Shalt Not Get Away With It.”
Not the kind of language HMRC regularly employs, but Rangers was always going to be big for them. Very big. An example. A test case. A litmus test. Take your image, but you get their drift.
http://blogs.channel4.com/alex-thomsons-view/files/2012/06/12_rangers_r_6021.jpg (http://blogs.channel4.com/alex-thomsons-view/files/2012/06/12_rangers_r_6021.jpg)
So now it is all about a proper investigation. Bluntly, a CVA (company voluntary arrangement) would have allowed far too much to be simply swept under the carpet. Years of evidence, allegations, arguably an entire Ibrox culture of funny money and living beyond everyone’s means, can, as the HMRC put it this morning “now be properly investigated – and let me say there is no way we could have done that under any proposed CVA deal”.
When the CVA was proposed down at Portsmouth FC, the taxman was promised all kinds of phone number figures from any amount of whacky offshore accounts etc and guess what? Yes – they got a fraction of nowt out of it, in the end.
They were not minded at all to go down the same route this time.
In short, this is a warrant for the proper, detailed, lengthy and forensic investigation of just what David Murray, and to some extent Craig Whyte, were doing at Rangers and – yes – all those men who walked away from the club they professed to cherish and love and have run from any serious kind of questions ever since in the celebrated style of Glasgow football, largely unencumbered by any pursuit and awkward questions from the compliant press of that city who cannot handle the idea that Rangers was after so many years too corrupted to survive liquidation.
Well, now it is time to get used to the truth and reality so widely predicted and investigated online and by those notable journalists in broadcasting and papers around Glasgow who bucked the trend. They can all hold their heads high today after all the years of abuse.
The succulent lamb (http://blogs.channel4.com/alex-thomsons-view/succulent-lamb-menu-questions/1010) just went off. The stench will hang around Rangers for years to come.
So a CVL (creditors’ voluntary liquidation) is, the HMRC believes, a way of taking the gloves off, and getting to grips with, the former directors which a company voluntary arrangement (CVA) could never have done, in their view.
Getting away with it just became very, very much more difficult for all the directors involved with Rangers over the past 15 years or so, and nobody – least of all Rangers fans – can possibly do anything but welcome that fact, whatever it means for the club.
Today HMRC said this: “A CVL is the statutory process whereby a company’s assets are realised by an insolvency practitioner (the liquidator – BDO in this case it seems) and paid out to its creditors. If there is not enough to pay creditors in full after the costs of the liquidation, they will receive only a proportion of their claims. The directors and employees of the company play no part in the liquidation.”
Moreover, the actions across recent months of administrators Duff & Phelps might well now come under scrutiny. Given some of the more bizarre twists and turns, it would be astonishing if they did not.
The HMRC again: “Liquidators are required by regulatory best practice to undertake a certain minimum level of investigation into the actions of the directors of the company in the run up to its liquidation. These investigations may reveal legal actions which only liquidators can take whereby directors can be ordered by the court to compensate the company in respect of any wrongdoings they may have committed during the pre-liquidation period. If the liquidator considers it economic to pursue such actions he will do so. ”
Not only that. There are wide powers to investigate and take actions against directors including –
- Wrongful trading: directors can be ordered to make a payment to the company if they continue incurring debt at a time they should reasonably have known the company could not avoid going into liquidation.
- Transaction at an undervalue: where a director has caused an asset to be transferred to a connected party for less than its true value at a time when the company was insolvent, the asset can be transferred back to the company or the person benefitting can be ordered to compensate the company. An example would be a director buying his own company car for £1.
- Preference: where a director has paid someone with the intention of making them better off in the event of a liquidation than they would otherwise have been then they can be ordered to pay compensation to the company. An example would be a director causing the company to pay a debt that he had personally guaranteed so he would not have to meet that debt himself when the company goes into liquidation.
- Misfeasance: this covers a wide variety of breaches of duty by directors (http://blogs.channel4.com/alex-thomsons-view/rangers-saga-hide-deeper-corruption-football/964). Duties of directors are set out in the companies act and include such matters as putting the company’s interests first, and not taking account of the director’s personal interests.
And just to top it off, under the liquidation the liquidators also now have all kinds of powers to get information from directors and others with inside knowledge of the football club, and they can use the courts to do it if they have to.
Or to put it another way, Rangers directors of the recent past can run from the questions, if they like – but hiding would be futile.
So the HMRC are pretty much where they want to be in all this. And anyone who believes that if you try to thwart the taxman, they should come after you, will no doubt agree.
Questions therefore for several Scottish MSPs and First Minister Alex Salmond (http://www.channel4.com/news/alex-salmond) to answer about their blatant political interference with the HMRC – several MSPs blatantly and publicly attempting to pressure the taxman away from any liquidation. I know from sources within HMRC that basically all they managed to achieve was to antagonise the taxman who simply wanted everyone to play by the rules and for there to be no special case, no exceptions and no special pleadings.
At the time when Channel 4 News dared question whether or not their actions might not be counter-productive, given that Holyrood has no powers over HMRC, the hue and cry from said MSPs and Mr Salmond’s minders (http://www.channel4.com/news/rangers-the-complex-connections-of-a-club-in-crisis) was long and loud. I wonder if they are re-examining their actions today?
And then there’s the football side of things, for Rangers did also masquerade as a football club during the long years of apparently being a casino. In immediate terms -
1. Rangers will be banned from European competition for three years.
2. Most of their players can and will leave in the coming weeks often – many having no doubt had enough of doing their bit on wage cuts of up to 75 per cent.
3. The club still faces the Big Tax Case tribunal decision laughingly due “soon after Easter”, and on that the HMRC still have no news, this could see Rangers face a further tax bill of up to £70m in dues and penalties.
4. The Scottish Premier League (http://www.channel4.com/news/spl-boss-rules-applied-without-fear-nor-favour) will soon run out of excuses to not report on its investigation into alleged wrongful player registration which, if the club is found guilty as charged, could see the club losing much of its silverware won over the past decade or so.t
5. The liquidation makes it even more difficult for both the Scottish Premier League and its appeal body the Scottish Football Association to readmit and license Rangers to play in the Scottish Premier League.
6. Despite the Green consortium’s lofty statements about buying the club’s assets, there is no guarantee that they will in fact be bought up as a job lot. There is no guarantee about simply playing on at Ibrox. There are, as things stand, few guarantees in terms of the asset sale at all.
It is hard to see any way forward with any kind of probity except starting a clean sheet at the foot of the Third Division in Scotland and playing their way back, thereby sending a message across the sporting world, at last, that some things matter more than money – even in football.
And that is what many Rangers fans (http://blogs.channel4.com/alex-thomsons-view/rangers-fans-2/1669) – for so long ignored in all this and the people most badly sold down the river by those who “managed” their club – want to see happen. To that extent they are the people, the people who matter, and, unlike all their directors, they did not walk away and they will not.

[ScottB]

Celtic have had thousands of season ticket holders write to them to tell them they will not renew if Rangers return. They will have to vote No, their fans would never accept otherwise.

We will vote No, all Petrie's statements indicate that.

St Mirren you would think would say No, St Johnstone, like us, have suffered to stay financially viable, you'd hope they'd vote No. Beyond that, maybe the Dons and United vote No. Motherwell I have no idea, Killie will vote yes, Inverness maybe, Ross County will probably vote Yes, Hearts probably will too really. Obviously Rangers will too.

[GreenCastle]

I think their joint sponsors would have a thing or two to say about it.

The fans might hate each other but the two clubs work together on a number of things and I just can't see them voting against them.

There's a lot of money and interest in the Old Firm aspect too - and long term I think they would be bored walking a league every year.

The rest of the SPL doesn't need Rangers, but Celtic do.

The sponsor part is interesting - both being sponsored by Tennants and the T.V deal would have to be re-negotiated but not sure what other sponsorship deals they share?

The final piece in bold I still think is a media myth - I don't think they would get bored winning the league every year and getting more rich than Rangers while they play catch up - like I said when signing players they could pretty much guarantee them Champions League football and players wouldn't have to choose between Rangers or Celtic it would just be Celtic.

[johnrebus]

As I said above, D&P will still be administrators. Plan B will be put into operation.

Their fees are secured.


Duff & Phelps are still under investigation by their own regulatory body for possible conflict of interest.


Still feel they may get their ***** felt for mess they have made.


:cb

[Moody Mulder]

The sponsor part is interesting - both being sponsored by Tennants and the T.V deal would have to be re-negotiated but not sure what other sponsorship deals they share?

The final piece in bold I still think is a media myth - I don't think they would get bored winning the league every year and getting more rich than Rangers while they play catch up - like I said when signing players they could pretty much guarantee them Champions League football and players wouldn't have to choose between Rangers or Celtic it would just be Celtic.

Any future Celtic player maybe guaranteed PRE Qualifying CL Football bit they don't make the group stages all that often

[Billie Jo]

For anyone who can't open the link. Best most succulent lamb I have read.

Today’s the day the taxman, in the shape of HMRC, said not only will he not be walking away from Rangers, but that they, the HMRC, “are the people”. And the people not only want their money back from this catastrophically mismanaged “football club”, but now they want to come after the men who reduced the once proud name of Ibrox to a pathetic byword for toxic governance.
And that is the real story.
It is not often that you are on holiday and find your plans are interrupted by the Voice of the Taxman, and it is hardly ever anything but bad news, I would imagine. But I have to report barely concealed joy and enthusiasm from my contact in HMRC who once memorably told me, referring to Rangers Football Club: “Remember our Eleventh Commandment, Alex – Thou Shalt Not Get Away With It.”
Not the kind of language HMRC regularly employs, but Rangers was always going to be big for them. Very big. An example. A test case. A litmus test. Take your image, but you get their drift.
http://blogs.channel4.com/alex-thomsons-view/files/2012/06/12_rangers_r_6021.jpg (http://blogs.channel4.com/alex-thomsons-view/files/2012/06/12_rangers_r_6021.jpg)
So now it is all about a proper investigation. Bluntly, a CVA (company voluntary arrangement) would have allowed far too much to be simply swept under the carpet. Years of evidence, allegations, arguably an entire Ibrox culture of funny money and living beyond everyone’s means, can, as the HMRC put it this morning “now be properly investigated – and let me say there is no way we could have done that under any proposed CVA deal”.
When the CVA was proposed down at Portsmouth FC, the taxman was promised all kinds of phone number figures from any amount of whacky offshore accounts etc and guess what? Yes – they got a fraction of nowt out of it, in the end.
They were not minded at all to go down the same route this time.
In short, this is a warrant for the proper, detailed, lengthy and forensic investigation of just what David Murray, and to some extent Craig Whyte, were doing at Rangers and – yes – all those men who walked away from the club they professed to cherish and love and have run from any serious kind of questions ever since in the celebrated style of Glasgow football, largely unencumbered by any pursuit and awkward questions from the compliant press of that city who cannot handle the idea that Rangers was after so many years too corrupted to survive liquidation.
Well, now it is time to get used to the truth and reality so widely predicted and investigated online and by those notable journalists in broadcasting and papers around Glasgow who bucked the trend. They can all hold their heads high today after all the years of abuse.
The succulent lamb (http://blogs.channel4.com/alex-thomsons-view/succulent-lamb-menu-questions/1010) just went off. The stench will hang around Rangers for years to come.
So a CVL (creditors’ voluntary liquidation) is, the HMRC believes, a way of taking the gloves off, and getting to grips with, the former directors which a company voluntary arrangement (CVA) could never have done, in their view.
Getting away with it just became very, very much more difficult for all the directors involved with Rangers over the past 15 years or so, and nobody – least of all Rangers fans – can possibly do anything but welcome that fact, whatever it means for the club.
Today HMRC said this: “A CVL is the statutory process whereby a company’s assets are realised by an insolvency practitioner (the liquidator – BDO in this case it seems) and paid out to its creditors. If there is not enough to pay creditors in full after the costs of the liquidation, they will receive only a proportion of their claims. The directors and employees of the company play no part in the liquidation.”
Moreover, the actions across recent months of administrators Duff & Phelps might well now come under scrutiny. Given some of the more bizarre twists and turns, it would be astonishing if they did not.
The HMRC again: “Liquidators are required by regulatory best practice to undertake a certain minimum level of investigation into the actions of the directors of the company in the run up to its liquidation. These investigations may reveal legal actions which only liquidators can take whereby directors can be ordered by the court to compensate the company in respect of any wrongdoings they may have committed during the pre-liquidation period. If the liquidator considers it economic to pursue such actions he will do so. ”
Not only that. There are wide powers to investigate and take actions against directors including –
- Wrongful trading: directors can be ordered to make a payment to the company if they continue incurring debt at a time they should reasonably have known the company could not avoid going into liquidation.
- Transaction at an undervalue: where a director has caused an asset to be transferred to a connected party for less than its true value at a time when the company was insolvent, the asset can be transferred back to the company or the person benefitting can be ordered to compensate the company. An example would be a director buying his own company car for £1.
- Preference: where a director has paid someone with the intention of making them better off in the event of a liquidation than they would otherwise have been then they can be ordered to pay compensation to the company. An example would be a director causing the company to pay a debt that he had personally guaranteed so he would not have to meet that debt himself when the company goes into liquidation.
- Misfeasance: this covers a wide variety of breaches of duty by directors (http://blogs.channel4.com/alex-thomsons-view/rangers-saga-hide-deeper-corruption-football/964). Duties of directors are set out in the companies act and include such matters as putting the company’s interests first, and not taking account of the director’s personal interests.
And just to top it off, under the liquidation the liquidators also now have all kinds of powers to get information from directors and others with inside knowledge of the football club, and they can use the courts to do it if they have to.
Or to put it another way, Rangers directors of the recent past can run from the questions, if they like – but hiding would be futile.
So the HMRC are pretty much where they want to be in all this. And anyone who believes that if you try to thwart the taxman, they should come after you, will no doubt agree.
Questions therefore for several Scottish MSPs and First Minister Alex Salmond (http://www.channel4.com/news/alex-salmond) to answer about their blatant political interference with the HMRC – several MSPs blatantly and publicly attempting to pressure the taxman away from any liquidation. I know from sources within HMRC that basically all they managed to achieve was to antagonise the taxman who simply wanted everyone to play by the rules and for there to be no special case, no exceptions and no special pleadings.
At the time when Channel 4 News dared question whether or not their actions might not be counter-productive, given that Holyrood has no powers over HMRC, the hue and cry from said MSPs and Mr Salmond’s minders (http://www.channel4.com/news/rangers-the-complex-connections-of-a-club-in-crisis) was long and loud. I wonder if they are re-examining their actions today?
And then there’s the football side of things, for Rangers did also masquerade as a football club during the long years of apparently being a casino. In immediate terms -
1. Rangers will be banned from European competition for three years.
2. Most of their players can and will leave in the coming weeks often – many having no doubt had enough of doing their bit on wage cuts of up to 75 per cent.
3. The club still faces the Big Tax Case tribunal decision laughingly due “soon after Easter”, and on that the HMRC still have no news, this could see Rangers face a further tax bill of up to £70m in dues and penalties.
4. The Scottish Premier League (http://www.channel4.com/news/spl-boss-rules-applied-without-fear-nor-favour) will soon run out of excuses to not report on its investigation into alleged wrongful player registration which, if the club is found guilty as charged, could see the club losing much of its silverware won over the past decade or so.t
5. The liquidation makes it even more difficult for both the Scottish Premier League and its appeal body the Scottish Football Association to readmit and license Rangers to play in the Scottish Premier League.
6. Despite the Green consortium’s lofty statements about buying the club’s assets, there is no guarantee that they will in fact be bought up as a job lot. There is no guarantee about simply playing on at Ibrox. There are, as things stand, few guarantees in terms of the asset sale at all.
It is hard to see any way forward with any kind of probity except starting a clean sheet at the foot of the Third Division in Scotland and playing their way back, thereby sending a message across the sporting world, at last, that some things matter more than money – even in football.
And that is what many Rangers fans (http://blogs.channel4.com/alex-thomsons-view/rangers-fans-2/1669) – for so long ignored in all this and the people most badly sold down the river by those who “managed” their club – want to see happen. To that extent they are the people, the people who matter, and, unlike all their directors, they did not walk away and they will not.

Wow, :top marks

[Leithenhibby]

SPL confirm that Rangers will appear in the fixture lists on Monday and that they also get to vote to get themselve back into the SPL - so already have 12.5% of the votes they need

So many RFC fans I know wanting to go to 3rd and start from scratch.

My very thoughts :greengrin

[cocteautwin]

Here are some things that I am almost certain will happen IMHO. Tick them off as and when they happen over the next few years:

- No way will the stadium, training ground and car park be sold for just 5m. A full valuation of these assets will be sought and obtained through auction by the liquidators. There is even the possibility that Green is just paying 5m for the Goodwill and name of Rangers and not the actual physical assets.

- All employees of the club who were paid under an EBT will be pursued for non-payment of tax on amounts received. This hasn’t been talked about yet but I’m certain HMRC will pursue this if they can’t recover all their monies due through the liquidation. There are some wealthy individuals involved who can expect back tax demands, interest accrual and possible fines. It would be worth their while now to deposit monies with HMRC to avoid any further interest accrual.

- Craig Whyte will be investigated for fraud and is looking at possible prison time. If he is found to have any assets he can start kissing them goodbye bye.

- David Murray will need to pay tax on his 6m paid through the EBT and will also be investigated for fraud. He is looking at many years of legal cases and also faces a possible prison sentence if found guilty of fraud.

- Grier at D&P will be investigated for conflict of interest and I assume D&P will be severely reprimanded by the relevant authorities, possibly struck off.

- A certain ex-manager of Rangers who took payments through the EBT also will be investigated for bungs and is also looking at possible prison time.

So many dodgy characters involved. Unbelievable story. Getting sick of all this popcorn. :aok:

[Andy74]

Celtic have had thousands of season ticket holders write to them to tell them they will not renew if Rangers return. They will have to vote No, their fans would never accept otherwise.

We will vote No, all Petrie's statements indicate that.

St Mirren you would think would say No, St Johnstone, like us, have suffered to stay financially viable, you'd hope they'd vote No. Beyond that, maybe the Dons and United vote No. Motherwell I have no idea, Killie will vote yes, Inverness maybe, Ross County will probably vote Yes, Hearts probably will too really. Obviously Rangers will too.

I'm not so sure we will vote no. We've talked about sporting integrity and all that but that could equally mean applying sanctions.

[ScottB]

I'm not so sure we will vote no. We've talked about sporting integrity and all that but that could equally mean applying sanctions.

I'm not convinced sanctions are an option, if a club is adamant Rangers need to stay because they need their income, then they need a Rangers that are, at the least, strong enough to make the top 6 to get the much hallowed 4 Old Firm games a season. At that point, New Rangers have the strength, they know that those clubs voting Yes have decided they need them, so why should they agree to back breaking sanctions?

If Rangers crop up in the SPL next season, it will be with minimal, if any sanctions.

As for us, I take sporting integrity to mean voting No, maybe wishful thinking, but I can't see how Rangers in the SPL in any form equals protecting sporting integrity.

[Dashing Bob S]

No one bought up "Zombie Rangers FC". That's were they'll go imho.

That way there will be a constant reminder that they were once just "Rangers" and the fans can continue in their shambling, bedraggled style without a blink. The green skin might be a draw back though.

They've been vampires for so long, zombies is probably rather appropriate. I wonder if the succulent lamb press will continue to believe in fairies, pixies and elves?

[joe breezy]

https://fbcdn-sphotos-a.akamaihd.net/hphotos-ak-ash4/292253_4040053837101_438630368_n.jpg

[NORTHERNHIBBY]

The stomach churning issue for me is that there does not seem any public show of contrition from anyone at Ibrox. All the stagnant hangers on like Hendry and Rae are soiling themselves at the thought of a dependable cash cow going down the tubes. Surely all the eight HUNdred million RFC fans all over the world need to do is for once, give instead of take, and chip in with a quid each.

[ancienthibby]

https://fbcdn-sphotos-a.akamaihd.net/hphotos-ak-ash4/292253_4040053837101_438630368_n.jpg

:top marks:top marks:top marks

[joe breezy]

They are not in liquidation.

in liquidation on refusal of the CVA - is that not right? so the CVA is being accepted? or is there a 3rd option?

[Kato]

They've been vampires for so long, zombies is probably rather appropriate. I wonder if the succulent lamb press will continue to believe in fairies, pixies and elves?

The CVA was an attempt at constructing a Frankenstein Rangers.

Goram, the press Doncaster etc might as well be hoping Fairy Godmothers exist.

There's' no place like home.
There's' no place like home.
There's' no place like home.

[CropleyWasGod]

in liquidation on refusal of the CVA - is that not right? so the CVA is being accepted? or is there a 3rd option?

The Plan B, in event of the CVA being rejected is for CG to buy some/all of the assets for £5.5m. That process will continue for the time being, and will only be stopped by legal challenge or by joint agreement between D&P and CG.

I am sorry to p on people's chips, but RFC are not yet in liquidation. It may be the eventual outcome, but there is some way to go yet.

BDO/HMRC's statements today are, IMO, an attempt to put pressure on D&P to fold up the tents, but D&P are within their rights to resist that.

[dchibs]

Colin Hendry "the Old Firm are the SPL"
Alex Rae "HMRC have done us over"
Gordon Smith "we were told the CVA would be accepted" eh by who? your Mum.

These guys are muppets and the most ignorant men on the planet.

Did Colin Hendry ever pay back the loan from his friend,:rolleyes:

[snooky]

SPL confirm that Rangers will appear in the fixture lists on Monday and that they also get to vote to get themselve back into the SPL - so already have 12.5% of the votes they need

Kinda like having a person charged with murder sitting in the jury at his own trial. :crazy:

[mjhibby]

Absolutely superb. The succulent lamb has gone off. All tabloid lap dogs hang your head in shame.

At last someone telling it as it actually is and not made up grovelling drivel.At last we are reaching the end game and hopefully they will get their just desserts for everything they have done.The absolute garbage that the tabloids and even some of the respected papers have been carrying has been shown to be sheer fantasy.Surely now they cant be readmitted into the spl and i suspect they will drop down to div 1 and either dundee or the pars will take their place.(that will be another interesting twist if that happens)
No europe now for 3 years and clubs like rapid taken them to uefa and of course the taxman at their heels for many months to come.Im sure the sycophantic weedgie press will paint a rosy picture of it all but surely if the scottish game wants to maintain any dignity they must boot them out the spl.What and embarrasment for scotland and scottish football.Still im sure mr green will say its all part of the plan and as for duff and phelps.this story will run and run me thinks.

[robinp]

in liquidation on refusal of the CVA - is that not right? so the CVA is being accepted? or is there a 3rd option?

They are still in administration, but they are likely to be in liquidation in the near future.

BDO have consented to act but have not yet been appointed.

[stokesmessiah]

Just seen this on the BBC feed...

Anonymous text: "Will this whole debacle signal Rangers making an application to join the English football league? If it was a straight choice between the EFL or the SFL I know what I would choose. Could this be Green's angle all along? If so, this could be a genius move..."


OMG they are just totally unable to comprehend things !!

[jgl07]

Celtic have had thousands of season ticket holders write to them to tell them they will not renew if Rangers return. They will have to vote No, their fans would never accept otherwise.

We will vote No, all Petrie's statements indicate that.

St Mirren you would think would say No, St Johnstone, like us, have suffered to stay financially viable, you'd hope they'd vote No. Beyond that, maybe the Dons and United vote No. Motherwell I have no idea, Killie will vote yes, Inverness maybe, Ross County will probably vote Yes, Hearts probably will too really. Obviously Rangers will too.

Rangers will not get a vote. They will have ceased to exist until such time as they are re-instated. No statement from the SPL (Neil Doncaster) will convince me of this. If and when Rangers are liquidated, there will be a vacancy. It will either be a Rangers Newco or Dundee. I would like to see a legal opinion on that one.

There is no way that St Johnstone will vote against Rangers. I would hope that Inverness will vote against them based on recent statements regarding Rangers court action.

My best bets for rejecting Rangers are:

Hibs (based on Petrie's statements)
Celtic (their support would flay them if they voted yes and they do like to appear squeeky clean)
Aberdeen (past emnity with Rangers and fans vehemently opposed)

Mayby vote no includes:

St Mirren (reaction to the dodgy take-over effort)
Dundee United (appear to be hedging their bets)
Inverness (annoyed about appeal to Court of Session also likely to lose less than some)
Ross County (as above)

Likely to vote for Rangers:

St Johnstone (Steve Brown-nose is in charge)
Hearts (They are next in line for HMRC)
Motherwell (They have most to lose financially)
Kilmarnock (As Motherwell)

Hopfully there will be no more than a 6-5 vote in favour of admitting Rangers.

[GreenCastle]

Just seen this on the BBC feed...

Anonymous text: "Will this whole debacle signal Rangers making an application to join the English football league? If it was a straight choice between the EFL or the SFL I know what I would choose. Could this be Green's angle all along? If so, this could be a genius move..."


OMG they are just totally unable to comprehend things !!

Dream on - no chance any of the English teams would let them in - whose going to move down ? England have a pyramid system for a reason.

SFL it is - that's if they accept them :wink:

[GreenPJ]

Just seen this on the BBC feed...

Anonymous text: "Will this whole debacle signal Rangers making an application to join the English football league? If it was a straight choice between the EFL or the SFL I know what I would choose. Could this be Green's angle all along? If so, this could be a genius move..."


OMG they are just totally unable to comprehend things !!

Not sure it was Green's angle but I would be surprised if the newco were not investigating the possibility of applying to join the EFL. They wanted to go to the EPL before but the Premiership/Championship managers would not allow them in. If they joined the EPL OK it would take 5/6 years potentially but they could end up where they wanted to be without being stopped.

[Kaiser1962]

TBH I take these analyses with a pinch of salt, but I do agree that the absence of RFC would be nowhere near as devastating as some would have us believe.

With regard to Hibs, it's certainly no accident that we are less affected than some. Rod Petrie and the Hibs board have put a lot of hard work into ensuring that the club is financially viable and they've taken and continue to take a lot of abuse for their troubles. Seeing Rangers escape lightly from their self-inflicted problems would render all that pointless. I think that's why Rod's taking a hardline approach to this.

Absolutely Cav but when there is an uninterrupted and unsubstantiated stream of pish telling us that we will all die without the Hun Pound it is refreshing to get a counter argument that does not promise armageddon. When Doncaster is tellings us that we have no future, similar to what he said would happen at Norwich after the ITV digital deal, then it is reassuring to have something to throw back at him.

That said you would think that, following his spectacularly innaccurate statements regarding the future of the English leagues following the demise of the ITV deal, he would learn when to shut the **** up.

[Since90+2]

Not sure it was Green's angle but I would be surprised if the newco were not investigating the possibility of applying to join the EFL. They wanted to go to the EPL before but the Premiership/Championship managers would not allow them in. If they joined the EPL OK it would take 5/6 years potentially but they could end up where they wanted to be without being stopped.

Take alot longer than that if they started at the bottom, if they ever did get there.

Mute point anyway as it wont happen.

[Saorsa]

Hun next to me just left the building, probably heading to buy a noose. :tee hee:http://i19.photobucket.com/albums/b168/jamie1971/smilies%202/bluebearsurrender.gif http://i19.photobucket.com/albums/b168/jamie1971/smilies%202/hang.gif

http://i19.photobucket.com/albums/b168/jamie1971/lol-2.jpg





http://i1175.photobucket.com/albums/r623/JDPH1875/smilies/lolrangersg.gif

[Spike Mandela]

SPL confirm that Rangers will appear in the fixture lists on Monday and that they also get to vote to get themselve back into the SPL - so already have 12.5% of the votes they need

Astonishing but not surprising that a vote as important as this is subject to an 8-4 arrangement and not the OF's precious 11-1 vote:rolleyes:

[Kaiser1962]

Just seen this on the BBC feed...

Anonymous text: "Will this whole debacle signal Rangers making an application to join the English football league? If it was a straight choice between the EFL or the SFL I know what I would choose. Could this be Green's angle all along? If so, this could be a genius move..."


OMG they are just totally unable to comprehend things !!


http://www.dailyrecord.co.uk/football/spl/rangers/2012/05/31/rangers-in-crisis-english-league-won-t-let-ibrox-side-treat-them-like-asylum-shelter-86908-23879930/

Chairman Brian Lee said: “If Rangers sent an application letter to the Conference they’d get a letter back saying we couldn’t accept them because we’re signed up to The Football Association structure.

English Football League chairman Greg Clarke said recently: “We have absolutely no intention of having any discussions with any club from another national league regarding them attaining membership of our competition.

“Richard Scudamore is on record as saying it’s a league for English and Welsh clubs.


That'll be a "NO" then.

[Northernhibee]

Came up with this little ditty on my way home from work:

If you go down to the woods today you're sure of a big surprise,
The Teddy Bears of Govan are trying to dry their eyes,
Because Murray, Greene and Craigie Whyte,
Left Glasgow Rangers in the s***e,
Today's the day that Rangers are liquidaaaated

[Dave-O]

Take it away Wullie.....


http://youtu.be/1pDk75Y1SZ4 ...:faf::faf::faf:

[H18sry]

I'm not so sure we will vote no. We've talked about sporting integrity and all that but that could equally mean applying sanctions.

But the vote will just be a yes or no, it won't be multiple choice, based on sanctions.

[iwasthere1972]

Hun next to me just left the building, probably heading to buy a noose. :tee hee:

Couldn't be a noose. Huns can't read.

[ScottB]

Rangers will not get a vote. They will have ceased to exist until such time as they are re-instated. No statement from the SPL (Neil Doncaster) will convince me of this. If and when Rangers are liquidated, there will be a vacancy. It will either be a Rangers Newco or Dundee. I would like to see a legal opinion on that one.

There is no way that St Johnstone will vote against Rangers. I would hope that Inverness will vote against them based on recent statements regarding Rangers court action.

My best bets for rejecting Rangers are:

Hibs (based on Petrie's statements)
Celtic (their support would flay them if they voted yes and they do like to appear squeeky clean)
Aberdeen (past emnity with Rangers and fans vehemently opposed)

Mayby vote no includes:

St Mirren (reaction to the dodgy take-over effort)
Dundee United (appear to be hedging their bets)
Inverness (annoyed about appeal to Court of Session also likely to lose less than some)
Ross County (as above)

Likely to vote for Rangers:

St Johnstone (Steve Brown-nose is in charge)
Hearts (They are next in line for HMRC)
Motherwell (They have most to lose financially)
Kilmarnock (As Motherwell)

Hopfully there will be no more than a 6-5 vote in favour of admitting Rangers.

I'd switch Ross County to the for Rangers groups, given their current Director of Footballs Rangers roots, EBT payments and all. Motherwell I could see being in the No group though, supposedly they've sold a lot more season tickets for this season with the prospect of Champions League football, while I guess newco Rangers wouldn't stop them getting more of that, they will likely have less of an income drop than was originally supposed if they aren't there...

[allezsauzee]

I'd switch Ross County to the for Rangers groups, given their current Director of Footballs Rangers roots, EBT payments and all. Motherwell I could see being in the No group though, supposedly they've sold a lot more season tickets for this season with the prospect of Champions League football, while I guess newco Rangers wouldn't stop them getting more of that, they will likely have less of an income drop than was originally supposed if they aren't there...


I'm not sure Motherwell do have the most to lose financially. They are the most likely to benefit from the extra prize money that finishing 2nd earns you as things stand. Not to mention the Champions League Qualifier that they'll play in. They could some decent TV money if they draw a big name.

[HibeeDave]

What if green and newco buy St Mirren, rename them and relocate them much in the same way Airdrie Utd did to Clydebank?

[ScottB]

What if green and newco buy St Mirren, rename them and relocate them much in the same way Airdrie Utd did to Clydebank?

Because Airdrie did it, there is precedent.

I'd think it more likely they buy an SFL club, like Cowdenbeath though.

[Del Boy]

Not convinced hearts would vote yes, Romanov is no great lover of Rangers and they've been shafted over the lee wallace transfer.

[Hovehibby]

for those of you not in Scotland, there's a sportsound special starting at 18:10

http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/scotland/17325775

[alan1875]

1801:
Charles Green has told Rangers TV: "It's massively disappointing and I think to some extent we have been misled by HMRC.

"Duff and Phelps have consistently said to me that they were in dialogue with HMRC and that they hadn't rejected the CVA route.

"Irrespective of what I was being told by HMRC, my own advisors at Deloitte have been in dialogue with them too.

"To see them today saying this is a 'policy decision' leaves me speechless. If that's the case, is that a policy that was invented this week?

"If not, why weren't we told that in February or March? We could have gone into a NewCo then and saved a huge amount of money and time.

"It would also have removed the false hope from Rangerst fans. There is no possible way that this is better for creditors."

Odd how Green didn't know that it was policy for HMRC to not accept CVA's for football teams in instances like Ranger's, yet 90% of folk on here knew.....:confused:

he must surely be yet another corrupt trumpet....

[SteveHFC]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=9XrL_F6tnT4

[Hovehibby]

Not convinced hearts would vote yes, Romanov is no great lover of Rangers and they've been shafted over the lee wallace transfer.

Agree, they still owe Romanov something in the region of £800K. Might sway their decision. The hertz fans i know are opposed to voting yes

[sauzee1966]

The SPL Clubs.....Hibs included now have to make a decision over the Ibroxgate issue and decide if we take the financial hammering or let them back in. personally its a Judas situation.......I would take the hit and show we are not letting a club like that get away with conning people for years and punt them to Div 3. The Tash will vote against them....the Yams are scared stiff and will side with The Glasgow Thieves.



what do you think the SPL clubs should do??????

[HUTCHYHIBBY]

Its a no brainer, could be the end for Scottish football as we know it if they are let back in with minor sanctions.

[iwasthere1972]

The SPL Clubs.....Hibs included now have to make a decision over the Ibroxgate issue and decide if we take the financial hammering or let them back in. personally its a Judas situation.......I would take the hit and show we are not letting a club like that get away with conning people for years and punt them to Div 3. The Tash will vote against them....the Yams are scared stiff and will side with The Glasgow Thieves.



what do you think the SPL clubs should do??????

Make a stand and just say NO.

We don't need them, we don't want them and they should be made to pay heavily for cheating their way to trophies over goodness knows how many years.

Rangers don't do walking away. Aye let's put them to the test.

SAY NO.

[VickMackie]

Agree, they still owe Romanov something in the region of £800K. Might sway their decision. The hertz fans i know are opposed to voting yes

VR is trying to punt them. They're more financially attractive with Rangers in the league so it will be a definite yes, irrespective of the LW cash.

Can someone answer this?

What's to stop the SFL from simply increasing division 1 to 12 teams, adding Rangers and one other then letting Spartans into SFL3?

If they're made to join the SFL this will happen!

[iwasthere1972]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_WmFnuaJnZE

[VickMackie]

A point I've forgotten. If the BDO investigation gets deep into the financial more do they have the authority to delve into MIH if there appears to be anything dodgy?

Do they have the right to look at personal or working relationships of secretaries? Thinking investigations into Hearts.

There must be a lot more strands here that could be followed up on.

[Dalkeith]

Its a no brainer, could be the end for Scottish football as we know it if they are let back in with minor sanctions.

depends if clubs value their own fans more

[jgl07]

What's to stop the SFL from simply increasing division 1 to 12 teams, adding Rangers and one other then letting Spartans into SFL3?

If they're made to join the SFL this will happen!

Because they would be a club short.

If Rangers are out of the SPL, then Dundee will be promoted.

Either way it would be a matter for the SFL. I would guess that putting Rangers in SFL3 woiuld keep them in the SFL for three years as opposed to one if they are admitted to SFL1.

[LancsHibs]

Just seen him.... What an absolute tool

[VickMackie]

Those on RM are confident the assets will be sold whilst they're still in admin and therefore won't be available to the liquidators to flog.

This seems to answer my previous points on how they can sell them. I was under the impression they'd be liquidated as soon as the Cva was rejected.

The ***** will wriggle out and be in the SPL next year.

[cad]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lwbphnxfRBc

[DH1875]

What do you think this will this cost Hibs per season?

Would depend on the SKY deal but other than that, not a lot. I reckon, if anything we could be better off.


I have stated I would not go back to Easter Road if a newco Rangers go straight back into SPL. (I gave up my season 2 years ago before I slit my wrists watching Hibs). I have continued to go on an irregular basis.


However, if Rangers newco do not get elected into SPL I will buy a season ticket to support Hibs and the SPL for taking the moral integrity stance. Would anyone else do the same?


Would make a good poll if anyone can do it.

So long as we vote NO I will be at ER next season. If Rangers are voted back in by the others I just wont be going to any other stadiums to watch us (well maybe the cup final :greengrin).


How the duck can they get a vote on this? No way should Rangers be allowed to vote. I know people have tried to explain by how on earth can Green be allowed to buy Ibrox, Murry Park etc...... for £5.5 million :confused:. Surely it should all be sold off to the highest bidder for the money to be split between the creditors. Listening to sportsound it sounds to me as if a newco will just form and everything will just continue to be the same.

[keep the faith]

Should we have a poll to make clear hibs nets thoughts on accepting new huns back into the spl? Otherwise we will get that so called supporters spokesman making statements on behalf of hibs supporters which very few hibs supporters actually agree with.
Hibs say no!!!!!

[McIntosh]

It is no sad thing that a force of evil is in the process of dying let us hope it's ********* off spring is not a chip of the old block. Regardless of this, Dunfermline or Dundee must replace them. The son of evil must start at the begining and that is the Third division. If Hibs vote to allow them it is a betrayal for what our Great club stands has always stood for - fair play and honesty.

[VickMackie]

Because they would be a club short.

If Rangers are out of the SPL, then Dundee will be promoted.

Either way it would be a matter for the SFL. I would guess that putting Rangers in SFL3 woiuld keep them in the SFL for three years as opposed to one if they are admitted to SFL1.

They only need to add 3 teams, Including the newco to make sure there was enough teams for the whole Scottish football structure to be intact. Quite easily achieved with shuffling up the way.

It may be in the SFL clubs interest to have them go through 3 divisions but if they agreed to share revenues equally from their div 1 campaign I'm sure they'd agree.

[AlbertK86]

It's just like a school bully being expelled. The bully was taking everyone's lunch money and buying a roast while we were left with no frills beans everyday. Just because he changes his name and offers us say 10p to every £1 he's taken, doesn't mean he's allowed back in. Boot the bullies out and take a stand.

Beautifully put.... I suggest you send this to the SFA, SPL and all the SPL chairman

Rangers - GIRFUY

GGTTH

[Hovehibby]

[QUOTE=VickMackie;3260843]VR is trying to punt them. They're more financially attractive with Rangers in the league so it will be a definite yes, irrespective of the LW cash.



So are all the other SPL clubs (bar Celtic), but even if not for sale at least the chairmen will be taking this into account.

But,
Hertz and ICT have grievances with them due to money owed
St Mirren are peeved about the takeover debacle, but are the subject of a fans takeover
Dundee Utd are peeved about the legal challenge, as are ICT
Aberdeen have long-held animosity towards gers, but have to finance a move away from Pittodrie.

Yes, VR is trying to punt them, and that may sway their vote, but hopefully some or all of the above would vote no.

IMHO, all clubs should be voting no. If the rules can be bent for one club, then the whole system is flawed. It would expose Scottish football as an absolute joke if they were let back in. Let them apply to the SFL and see if they can outvote the mighty Spartans.

[Hibbyradge]

Almost perfect!


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oWR7Ib48M8g

[Viva_Palmeiras]

Meanwhile on Real Radio the intellectual debate rages on with DJ, Roughie "supported" by Michelle Moan - yes a solution for all your man-boob problems

This was the divvy that said about a year ago she would consider investing in either gers or tic - tart ;)

Real radio - oldfirm apologists are us

[ScottB]

VR is trying to punt them. They're more financially attractive with Rangers in the league so it will be a definite yes, irrespective of the LW cash.

Can someone answer this?

What's to stop the SFL from simply increasing division 1 to 12 teams, adding Rangers and one other then letting Spartans into SFL3?

If they're made to join the SFL this will happen!

Why?

Any club trying to get into the SFL will be voted on by the current member clubs, why would the SFL3 and 2 clubs vote Rangers in ahead of them at no benefit to themselves?

SFL3 is the only place for them, assuming the member clubs vote them in of course.

[jgl07]

They only need to add 3 teams, Including the newco to make sure there was enough teams for the whole Scottish football structure to be intact. Quite easily achieved with shuffling up the way.

It may be in the SFL clubs interest to have them go through 3 divisions but if they agreed to share revenues equally from their div 1 campaign I'm sure they'd agree.

They don't need to add any.

One club will leave the SFL (Dundee) and one will join (Rangers Newco) so no need to add any new teams.

[HibeeSince85]

Now this is getting a bit clearer I have to say this. If the dirty cheating huns get allowed back in the league we'd be aswell just liquidating every club in the land and finishing up.

They have to be hammered for the years of cheating and booted right down to the 3rd Division.

[WindyMiller]

VR is trying to punt them. They're more financially attractive with Rangers in the league so it will be a definite yes, irrespective of the LW cash.

Can someone answer this?

What's to stop the SFL from simply increasing division 1 to 12 teams, adding Rangers and one other then letting Spartans into SFL3?

If they're made to join the SFL this will happen!

The acquisition of the Huns by Greene gives Greene until 30/7/12 to complete, the SPL surely won't need to come to a decision until the deal is done.

By that time it would be too late to join any league.

[jgl07]

Jim Traynor says Rangers must go to to SFL3!

[Since90+2]

Meanwhile on Real Radio the intellectual debate rages on with DJ, Roughie "supported" by Michelle Moan - yes a solution for all your man-boob problems

This was the divvy that said about a year ago she would consider investing in either gers or tic - tart ;)

Real radio - oldfirm apologists are us

Its Michelle Evans , not Mone.

[3pm]

Implications for the TV deal?!

Games at 3 on a Saturday!

[frazeHFC]

What will happen, relegated teams stay up, or 2nd placed go up?

[Mon Dieu4]

BBC just stated the fixtures will still be released on Monday with Rangers in them, that makes total sense eh

[thebakerboy]

Aside from the SPL vote on Newco where does the SFA reconsideration of their punishment stand. Because if FIFA stand by their guns the SFA may have to suspend Rangers membership but if they are liquidated and form Newco without the history does this case disappear with the history. This would then let the SFA off from actually making a difficult decision.

[AlbertK86]

Kick them out

No room for cheats

Change Scottish football for the better

Don't care about any TV deals.

Less money for every team ... So what .. reduce the wages by expanding the size of the league and give the kids from the academies a proper chance

Rangers - GIRFUY

GGTTH

[jgl07]

What will happen, relegated teams stay up, or 2nd placed go up?

I would assume that the losers of the SFL playoffs will be promoted/retain their place.

[jgl07]

Aside from the SPL vote on Newco where does the SFA reconsideration of their punishment stand. Because if FIFA stand by their guns the SFA may have to suspend Rangers membership but if they are liquidated and form Newco without the history does this case disappear with the history. This would then let the SFA off from actually making a difficult decision.

If their SPL share is transferred they would have to carry any penalties.

Any Newco would have to seek SFA membership. If this was granted, I would guess that the penalties would come with the membership.

If a completely new club called Rangers (2012) was formed and made no attempt to claim the history of Rangers (1690) they may get away with it. However they probably would struggle to get the paperwork completed in time to compete next season.

[...WentToMowAnSPL]

Being a bit lazy by asking... What is the status of Murray Park and Ipox ???

[HibbyDave]

You MUST tell RP that IF they are admitted to SPL that you will NEVER attend any SPL matches again.


The only thing our board understand or react to is hard cash (or lack of). Demand a refund of season tickets already bought IF they are admitted (with or without sanctions).

Time to stand up Rod. Is sporting integrity or cash more important to you and the board?


If it's cash then grow a pair and vote no to newco..........................

Just arrange a couple of friendlies with glamour opposition to recoup the cash lost by no huns.....you know it makes sense.

[I'm_cabbaged]

You MUST tell RP that IF they are admitted to SPL that you will NEVER attend any SPL matches again.


The only thing our board understand or react to is hard cash (or lack of). Demand a refund of season tickets already bought IF they are admitted (with or without sanctions).

Time to stand up Rod. Is sporting integrity or cash more important to you and the board?


If it's cash then grow a pair and vote no to newco..........................

Just arrange a couple of friendlies with glamour opposition to recoup the cash lost by no huns.....you know it makes sense.

if they are voted back in it'll be golf on a Saturday afternoon for me.

[Northernhibee]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HG2S0s1TYNI

[HibeeSince85]

if they are voted back in it'll be golf on a Saturday afternoon for me.

I love Hibs, but if the Huns get back in I'll find something else to do with my time, would confirm Scottish football is corrupt.

[Saorsa]

if they are voted back in it'll be golf on a Saturday afternoon for me.Dinnae ken about golf but if there's huns in any guise in the SPL next season with or without sanctions I'll be finding something else tae dae with my time and money.

[whiskyhibby]

Jim Traynor says Rangers must go to to SFL3!

He wasn't saying that a couple of weeks ago............... But then most of the weedgie press seem to change their minds more often than a wh@re changing her knickers

[whiskyhibby]

PS Well done the HMRC for withstanding the Weedgie press, Rangers apologists and Alex Salmonds overt pressure to turn the other cheek!

[leither17]

if they are voted back in it'll be golf on a Saturday afternoon for me.

My new season ticket will be going straight back to sender if this is the case too I not watching a rigged game what's the point

[Treadstone]

The media , especially the newspapers , will bombard everyone with the idea that the Scottish game cant survive without Rangers .

I don't remember us going out of business when we got relegated in '98 and had no TV money either.

[DH1875]

My new season ticket will be going straight back to sender if this is the case too I not watching a rigged game what's the point
So long as we vote NO I think I'll keep mine. I just won't be going to any away games. IF we vote yes, then forget about it.

[ancient hibee]

He wasn't saying that a couple of weeks ago............... But then most of the weedgie press seem to change their minds more often than a wh@re changing her knickers


They don't wear them(so I'm lead to believe)so weegie press has no minds.

[Terrymac]

Untenable president, repay your loans Rangers, Gratuitous Alienation (http://www.celticquicknews.co.uk/?p=9532)Posted on 12 June, 2012 (http://www.celticquicknews.co.uk/?p=9532) by Paul67 (http://www.celticquicknews.co.uk/?author=2)
251 (http://www.celticquicknews.co.uk/?p=9532#comments)
HMRC have confirmed their actions today leave open “potential investigation and pursuit of possible claims against those responsible for the company’s financial affairs in recent years”.
Chances are, HMRC will investigate the actions of SFA president, Campbell Ogilvie, more thoroughly than the investigation carried out by the Association which allowed their chief executive, Stewart Regan, to tell the media that:

“We are all aware of businesses being run where you have one owner and operator running the club and a number of directors sitting below. The way this process has been managed, a lot of this correspondence was done much higher up the chain than Campbell Ogilvie.”
Stewart (if I can be familiar), you’re better than this. Try reading this story one page ahead, figure out where this one is going and start acting accordingly. Of course, President What-school-did-you-go-to then told Scotland on Sunday:

“I might have signed some documents from time to time”.
Mr Regan had better make sure he knows what Mr Ogilvie signed, and I recommend he doesn’t relay exclusively on Mr Ogilvie’s memory.
Untenable
“Those responsible for the company’s financial affairs in recent years” includes Mr Ogilvie throughout his period as a director of Rangers. His position has been untenable for months and his continuing presence at the top of the Scottish FA only further contaminates those who claim otherwise.
The former directors of Rangers will not be the only ones alarmed at this development, recipients of EBTs (including the directors, who will have a second matter to consider) have reason to be concerned.
Not only do Her Majesty’s officers want any potential wrongdoing investigated, they also want their money.
Rangers EBTs were a loan. HMRC will tell recipients of this loan that their side letters (you better believe they’ll all find those side letters now) are not worth the paper they’re written on. If the money was indeed a loan, a demand for repayment will be made. If this is disputed, you can expect to hear the phrase Gratuitous Alienation to enter the lexicon soon. Gratuitous Alienation is the Scots legal term describing when property (or cash) is transferred to another party without any, or adequate, consideration.
I hear HMRC have all their ducks lined up for this one.
Internecine strife doesn’t begin to describe how things will end up.

[brythehibby]

Im hearing all the 'im no going back if there voted in' chat and of course agree.

But say hibs vote to punt them and the rest of the clubs vote to keep them, is it justified to stop supporting hibs and stop going to games because of other clubs bottling it?

[grunt]

Alex Thompson interrupts his holiday with a blog

http://blogs.channel4.com/alex-thomsons-view/rangers-taxman-walk/1899

That's a good read.

[Saorsa]

Im hearing all the 'im no going back if there voted in' chat and of course agree.

But say hibs vote to punt them and the rest of the clubs vote to keep them, is it justified to stop supporting hibs and stop going to games because of other clubs bottling it?This decision is bigger than Hibs IMO, it's no about what Hibs dae, it's about what Scottish fitba does. Make the wrong decision and it'll be game over for many.

[blackpoolhibs]

Im hearing all the 'im no going back if there voted in' chat and of course agree.

But say hibs vote to punt them and the rest of the clubs vote to keep them, is it justified to stop supporting hibs and stop going to games because of other clubs bottling it?

As much as i do not want to hurt Hibs, i wont play poker if i know the games rigged, i wont watch a football league when the league is rigged.

I will find something else to do with my time and money.

[ekhibee]

As regards whether Rangers, in their new form are allowed to enter the SPL? I know this has been discussed a bit on other threads, my personal opinion is that they should NOT be allowed back in to the SPL, but at the same time I'm just not convinced that the clubs will vote that way. I actually think Hearts will vote against Rangers getting back in (contrary to what some seem to think), I think we will vote the same way as them, but not sure about some of the other clubs. This is just my opinion of how it'll go, hope I'm wrong:

Hibs- No
Hearts- No
St Mirren- No
St Johnstone- No
Dundee Utd- Yes
Aberdeen- Yes
Kilmarnock- Yes
ICT- No
Celtic- Yes
Ross County/Dunfermline- No
Rangers- Yes
Motherwell- Yes

Not sure if Ross County now have a vote or Dunfermline still have one till the start of the new season. In my opinion (again) this would not be enough votes to prevent Rangers from re-entering the SPL. Celtic are a money orientated club, besides the bigotry, and even though all the Celtic fans I've spoken to think that Rangers should be demoted, don't think their board will vote that way. I've seen Thompson of DU speaking on the tv a few times about this, and not at all convinced that he would back a 'No' vote. Milne of Aberdeen has been in the local papers saying to the fans that he must do what is in the best interests of the club..hmm. Kilmarnock are skint and I really don't think they will vote No. That's just some of the opinions I have, and obviously I haven't covered all the clubs, and for all I know I might be totally wrong about this, it would just be interesting to hear other peoples opinion on it.

[Spike Mandela]

This decision is bigger than Hibs IMO, it's no about what Hibs dae, it's about what Scottish fitba does. Make the wrong decision and it'll be game over for many.

Ultimately it is now out of Rangers' hands.

If they are rejected by the SPL they have to take it on the chin and start in SFL 3.

However if the other chairmen vote them in then no blame can be levelled at Rangers. The chairmen of the other clubs have the power to decide what happens. If they vote Rangers in to the SPL, even with sanctions, then they are letting Rangers get away with a massive scandal but all fury should be directed at the club chairmen and not Rangers.

Personally I don't think we have club chaimen of the required backbone and integrity in the SPL to do what is right.

[leither17]

As much as i do not want to hurt Hibs, i wont play poker if i know the games rigged, i wont watch a football league when the league is rigged.

I will find something else to do with my time and money.

Exactly my thoughts too this is bigger than hibs voting no for me

[ehf]

As much as i do not want to hurt Hibs, i wont play poker if i know the games rigged, i wont watch a football league when the league is rigged.

I will find something else to do with my time and money.


:agree:

That's it exactly. Only blind loyalty keeps us investing in a substandard product year after year but the minute that product becomes tainted by corruption, that's the end. I would prefer to finally buy a Sky subscription and get my football there.

[tamig]

One for the finance and legal gurus.

I can't understand how this can result in Green getting his hands on the assets for a pittance. How does this stand in relation to the major creditors? Can they not insist through the courts that the assets are sold for market value with the cash raised being used to pay back the hun debt - or a portion of it at least?

[brythehibby]

I agree desperate dan, but i personally wouldnt stop going if we voted them out. What more could our club realistically do than vote them out.

Blackpool - fair do's. Im not saying either going or not going is right or wrong.

Im hoping none of us are faced with the question to stop going but i cant help feel the smaller clubs will see the £££ signs and keep them in.

P.s on mobile version so cant use quotes!

[HibbyDave]

As much as i do not want to hurt Hibs, i wont play poker if i know the games rigged, i wont watch a football league when the league is rigged.

I will find something else to do with my time and money.

THIS.


I work too hard to give my cash away in support of a league populated by two distubing organisations and others who are happy to take the cash and make up the numbers.

[DH1875]

Hibs- No
Hearts- No
St Mirren- Yes
St Johnstone- No
Dundee Utd- ??????
Aberdeen- ??????
Kilmarnock- Yes
ICT- Yes
Celtic- No
Ross County/Dunfermline- Yes
Rangers- Yes
Motherwell- Yes

That leaves us needing a no vote from either Utd or the Sheep. Not sure how either of them will vote.

[Since90+2]

Hibs- No
Hearts- No
St Mirren- Yes
St Johnstone- No
Dundee Utd- ??????
Aberdeen- ??????
Kilmarnock- Yes
ICT- Yes
Celtic- No
Ross County/Dunfermline- Yes
Rangers- Yes
Motherwell- Yes

That leaves us needing a no vote from either Utd or the Sheep. Not sure how either of them will vote.





Aberdeen will vote no.

[leither17]

Hibs- No
Hearts- No
St Mirren- Yes
St Johnstone- No
Dundee Utd- ??????
Aberdeen- ??????
Kilmarnock- Yes
ICT- Yes
Celtic- No
Ross County/Dunfermline- Yes
Rangers- Yes
Motherwell- Yes

That leaves us needing a no vote from either Utd or the Sheep. Not sure how either of them will vote.




Sure the united chairman was making noises last week that sporting integrity was the way forward

[JohnStephens91]

Hibs, Aberdeen, Celtic and Dundee United will vote no. Hearts will vote to keep them in due to their problems with money. Not sure who else would send the Huns packing.

[jgl07]

Sure the united chairman was making noises last week that sporting integrity was the way forward

He did say that Rangers would have to negotiate their way into the League.

Maybe the concessions many are looking for will be too much for Charles Green to accept.

[DH1875]

Sure the united chairman was making noises last week that sporting integrity was the way forward


That's why I'm unsure how they will vote. Up till then they would have been a stick on yes for me.

[BigKev]

I can see Hibs, the other lot, Celtic and Dundee Utd voting no. Hopefully with Aberdeen thrown in as well. The rest I would imagine will look at it from the money side of things. Still that's enough to say no to the Newhun.

[Andy74]

But the vote will just be a yes or no, it won't be multiple choice, based on sanctions.

The SPL recently said they will review sanctions for new cos on a case by case basis. The vote will be based on a negotiated position.

Note the Utd chairman recently commenting that they will need to negotiate and it would not be a simple yes or no.

[SonOfTortolano]

There is no way that the sheep fans would want thm back in the SPL.

[murray26]

I'm not convinced Celtic will vote no! they no winning the league so easily coupled by no old frim games would lead to apathy.

[Kato]

As much as i do not want to hurt Hibs, i wont play poker if i know the games rigged, i wont watch a football league when the league is rigged.

I will find something else to do with my time and money.

If some knd of reconstituted Hun is allowed back into the SPL Hibs should ask to join the Conference down South. If it can be shown we are in a corrupt set-up why wouldn't FIFA listen?

[bongo'd]

Hibs- No
Hearts- No
St Mirren- Yes
St Johnstone- No
Dundee Utd- ??????
Aberdeen- ??????
Kilmarnock- Yes
ICT- Yes
Celtic- No
Ross County/Dunfermline- Yes
Rangers- Yes
Motherwell- Yes

That leaves us needing a no vote from either Utd or the Sheep. Not sure how either of them will vote.





May seem a tad strange to some but I'm not so sure that Celtic will vote no especially if who voted which way is not revealed in the public domain. For all Peter Lawell's bluster and the pandering to their support he knows that he will lose masses of revenue without der hun.

Unfortunately I'm in the camp that if a newco Huns is a allowed to compete in next seasons SPL then it's ta ta from me. Why should we be expected to spend our hard earned when it will have been proven without any shadow of a doubt that Scottish fitba is corrupt to the core.

[mcfly]

How can rangers be allowed a vote? They don't exist so are not part of SPL.

[Andy74]

By the way. What have Rangers been actually found guilty of so far?

Might be on the minds of Chairmen that they need to be proportionate and that might not be able to be based on some of the other stuff that is still being investigated.

[Andy74]

How can rangers be allowed a vote? They don't exist so are not part of SPL.

They do exist.

[Hibbyradge]

"We don't like the things you do and we will not remember you".



http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=h9EWu2wiSco

[Spike Mandela]

One for the finance and legal gurus.

I can't understand how this can result in Green getting his hands on the assets for a pittance. How does this stand in relation to the major creditors? Can they not insist through the courts that the assets are sold for market value with the cash raised being used to pay back the hun debt - or a portion of it at least?

Neither a financial or legal guru but the simple fact remains that Rangers and their assets have been for sale since the 14th Feb and this is the best offer they have received. Whilst we all know the true value of the assets they are ultimately only worth what someone is prepared to pay for them.

[Hibbyradge]

Neither a financial or legal guru but the simple fact remains that Rangers and their assets have been for sale since the 14th Feb and this is the best offer they have received. Whilst we all know the true value of the assets they are ultimately only worth what someone is prepared to pay for them.

Their assets have never been put up for public sale.

The land Ibrox and Murray Park are on will be worth a lot more than what Green thinks he's going to pay.

[Leithenhibby]

How can rangers be allowed a vote? They don't exist so are not part of SPL.

I asked this a few (good few) pages back and think that it is totally wrong :confused:


They do exist.


For now, yes, but for how much longer :greengrin

[HibeeMG]

Their assets have never been put up for public sale.

The land Ibrox and Murray Park are on will be worth a lot more than what Green thinks he's going to pay.


Exactly.

I've said it all along when answering that very statement: show me a picture of the For Sale signs outside Ibrox and Murray Park and I'll believe they're up for grabs.

[hibeesdude]

http://i1157.photobucket.com/albums/p597/dougm1966/crest.jpg

[easty]

Exactly.

I've said it all along when answering that very statement: show me a picture of the For Sale signs outside Ibrox and Murray Park and I'll believe they're up for grabs.

8350

[HibeeMG]

8350


I believe!!!! :greengrin

What was actually up for sale here?

[woodythehibee]

Is the vote transparent and will each vote be publicised?

[easty]

I believe!!!! :greengrin

What was actually up for sale here?

dunno....just googled ibrox for sale. :wink:

[jgl07]

dunno....just googled ibrox for sale.

Has no-one put it on Ebay yet?

[SurferRosa]

How can rangers be allowed a vote? They don't exist so are not part of SPL.


I asked this a few (good few) pages back and think that it is totally wrong :confused:

They are allowed a vote because at the moment they have not been liquidated. The vote is about admitting a newco into the SPL, NOT a Rangers newco.
As it stands, they are a member club and are entitled to vote on this, like it or not.

[HibbiesandtheBaddies]

:agree:

That's it exactly. Only blind loyalty keeps us investing in a substandard product year after year but the minute that product becomes tainted by corruption, that's the end. I would prefer to finally buy a Sky subscription and get my football there.

:agree:

[H18sry]

To the tune of I'm H.A.P.P.Y.

Rangers til July
you're rangers til July
I know you are I'm sure you are
you're rangers til July :greengrin

[Lungo--Drom]

I have to agree with you mate. I think I will post mine back too wrapped in a dirty £5 note.


My new season ticket will be going straight back to sender if this is the case too I not watching a rigged game what's the point

[7Hero]

Remember Rangers will get banned from europe for 3 years, thus 2nd place is the same whether they are in league or not !

So the chairmen will take that opportunity to finish 2nd and keep them in the league to not lose the sky deal and what they perceive to be more cash with der hun coming to there home games.


Best of both worlds for them...


Personally id boot them out but the above seems more realistic..

[Stevo1875]

http://www.facebook.com/photo.php?fbid=447121728639113&set=a.179021342115821.39637.100000238694598&type=1&ref=nf

[DH1875]

How cool would it be to have a spare £6 million in the bank. Go out and buy Ibrox and Murray Park and then form a newco .











and call them Clydebank :thumbsup:.

[CraigHibee]

here's one i made earlier :green grin



http://i639.photobucket.com/albums/uu112/djverticaldrop/shroom.jpg

[whiskyhibby]

Hibs- No
Hearts- No
St Mirren- Yes
St Johnstone- No
Dundee Utd- ??????
Aberdeen- ??????
Kilmarnock- Yes
ICT- Yes
Celtic- No
Ross County/Dunfermline- Yes
Rangers- Yes
Motherwell- Yes

That leaves us needing a no vote from either Utd or the Sheep. Not sure how either of them will vote.




Surely Rangers have no vote?

[Gus Fring]

All this talk about how Rangers will "die" if they didn't get the transfer embargo lifted or if they end up in SFL3 is surely irrelevant? Just now they are heading for oblivion anyway?

As a side note it shows how little they care about what they've done, the "it was a bad man who did it and ran away" excuse doesn't wash (much like their fans). They should be grateful for a place in SFL3 and if they are as big a club as they claim they'll be back up in the SPL by 2016 and if they do go bust (again) surely they'll just enter another newco into SFL3 and start again?

Seems to me what Rangers are after is the equivelant of resetting your game on Football Manager after you've been typing in cheats!

[DH1875]

Surely Rangers have no vote?


You'd have thought so eh :brickwall.

[The_Todd]

Surely Rangers have no vote?

They do, sadly.

[Lang Toun Hibs]

I'm not convinced Celtic will vote no! they no winning the league so easily coupled by no old frim games would lead to apathy.

Celtic fans wouldn't accept anything less than a straight no from their board...and I don't believe they would rest until they were certain of finding out who voted which way. Speaking to a Celtic fan today who suggested that with rangers effectively gone and a tough stance being taken by HMRC, there could be a number of English clubs (and some more Scottish ones for that matter) who could go the same way as rangers. If spaces open up down south, it wouldn't surprise him if Celtic explore opportunities down south...again. Part of the problem has always been taking both the ugly sisters...if there is only one to take, that option may be somewhat more palitable to the premier league?

Big changes ahead perhaps?

[H18sry]

Would a newco Rangers still not be allowed to sign players over 18? :confused:

[CentreLine]

I love Hibs, but if the Huns get back in I'll find something else to do with my time, would confirm Scottish football is corrupt.

Totally agree :agree:

However, if Rangers are properly punished and start again as a new club and in SFL3 then I will be straight down to ER to purchase my ST. I have put this off and put it off but Hibs will get my ST money provided RFC are fairly and properly punished and I hope others will make the same commitment

[HFC 0-7]

They do, sadly.

Surely it's only the old co that can get a vote. Not sure when the vote would be but HMRC may move quickly to liquidation meaning that at the time the vote takes place old co no longer exists?

[Hibs Class]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=9XrL_F6tnT4

:top marks

[Minder]

I love Hibs, but if the Huns get back in I'll find something else to do with my time, would confirm Scottish football is corrupt.

Born a Hibbie and will die a Hibbie, would never walk away. No matter what happens. Its Hibs I support and its Hibs I will always support.

[ronaldo7]

Is the vote transparent and will each vote be publicised?

I believe Rangers have asked for the vote to take place in the lodge. Petrie's pockets are full of Black Balls.:rolleyes:

[Jim44]

Celtic fans wouldn't accept anything less than a straight no from their board...and I don't believe they would rest until they were certain of finding out who voted which way. Speaking to a Celtic fan today who suggested that with rangers effectively gone and a tough stance being taken by HMRC, there could be a number of English clubs (and some more Scottish ones for that matter) who could go the same way as rangers. If spaces open up down south, it wouldn't surprise him if Celtic explore opportunities down south...again. Part of the problem has always been taking both the ugly sisters...if there is only one to take, that option may be somewhat more palitable to the premier league?

Big changes ahead perhaps?

Peter Lawwell will be in for a rough ride over the newco into the SPL but at the end of the day I think Celtic will vote for Rangers. They will be satisfied with the humiliation Rangers have gone through and Rangers' presence, especially a weakened one, in the SPL will be no threat to their own progress. The financial implications will be too much to ignore, despite Lawwell saying that Celtic can flourish without Rangers and the the bottom line is that no pantomime is complete without two ugly sisters.

[The_Todd]

Surely it's only the old co that can get a vote. Not sure when the vote would be but HMRC may move quickly to liquidation meaning that at the time the vote takes place old co no longer exists?

And the OldCo still exists and has SPL membership

[Leithenhibby]

Born a Hibbie and will die a Hibbie, would never walk away. No matter what happens. Its Hibs I support and its Hibs I will always support.


How many times are we going to hear this one ..... :devil: :wink:

[HibeeSince85]

Born a Hibbie and will die a Hibbie, would never walk away. No matter what happens. Its Hibs I support and its Hibs I will always support.

So will I!

Are you saying that because I don't want to watch Hibs in a corrupt league I'm not?

Rangers have took the oiss, well and truly. They're not even apologetic, if they get back in as a newco to regain they're place I'm no watching that!

[Brando7]

http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/football/18417120?utm_source=twitterfeed&utm_medium=facebook&utm_campaign=sportsound

4.10 in Green suggest SPL have said there 3 teams applied for newco in the past..........eh naw i dont think so!!!!

[HFC 0-7]

And the OldCo still exists and has SPL membership

It exists at the moment, when do they cease to exist? When they go into liquidation? The way I have read the new co route is that they would leave the old co in existence, however HMRC may move quickly to liquidate meaning old co is no longer a member of the spl and this could all happen before the spl votes. If that's the case surely new co couldn't vote?

[Hibs Class]

This smacks of desperation. They're claiming it's a certainty that player registrations would automatically transfer to a newco. It sounds like another bluff to me, and about as convincing as all their previous statements on how things will turn out.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/football/18417120

[BarneyK]

http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/football/18417120?utm_source=twitterfeed&utm_medium=twitter

Despite what any of the actual "experts" have to say, the players apparantly have to join the Newco Huns. Well, so Chuckie says... "If the players choose not to transfer they will then be in breach of contract," Green told the club website. Paul Clark of administrators Duff & Phelps is also sanguine about the prospect of players switching to the newco.
"Once the sale is concluded, all of the players and staff will move over to the new company," he told BBC Scotland. "The newco will honour existing contracts. It's simply the name of their employer that changes."

[HFC 0-7]

This smacks of desperation. They're claiming it's a certainty that player registrations would automatically transfer to a newco. It sounds like another bluff to me, and about as convincing as all their previous statements on how things will turn out.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/football/18417120

Its a strange one as no one seems to be questioning whether Greene buying the club for 5.5 million is a done deal and cannot be challenged. If I was a creditor I would want everything to go on sale and let offers come in.

[VickMackie]

They are allowed a vote because at the moment they have not been liquidated. The vote is about admitting a newco into the SPL, NOT a Rangers newco.
As it stands, they are a member club and are entitled to vote on this, like it or not.

This is what is confusing. Why are 12 teams voting to allow a new club into the league when there are already 12 teams. Surely for that to be logical we'd be increasing the league to 13.

****ing thing is a farce.

[BarneyK]

This smacks of desperation. They're claiming it's a certainty that player registrations would automatically transfer to a newco. It sounds like another bluff to me, and about as convincing as all their previous statements on how things will turn out.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/football/18417120

It's almost as if they are considering the players to be "assets"...But of course we all know that the players wouldn't have any value in the event of a liquidation...oh wait a minute, I'm confused...:blah:

[GreenCastle]

If Rangers get thrown out the SPL - which they better or will be a complete farce and the death of Scottish Football.

Would they then start in SFL 3 or just the 1st division? Surely has to SPL3...if they are voted in ?

[The Falcon]

Its a strange one as no one seems to be questioning whether Greene buying the club for 5.5 million is a done deal and cannot be challenged. If I was a creditor I would want everything to go on sale and let offers come in.

The individual assets have not been offered for sale. Why do they sell it as a job lot when it may achieve more independently? Will someone ask D+P why MacGregor or Naismith werent sold to realise money. That would be realised now the season is over.

I hope vienna follow thorugh with their complaints to FIFA and UEFA as all the timings here stinks to the high heavens. This administration process and subsequent liquidation was pre planned long before valentines day.

[matty_f]

Its a strange one as no one seems to be questioning whether Greene buying the club for 5.5 million is a done deal and cannot be challenged. If I was a creditor I would want everything to go on sale and let offers come in.

:agree: I'm wondering if BDO can throw a spanner in the works of that deal and stop Greene picking up the club for a pittance, and in the process shaft all the creditors.

Also, can't HMRC just pursue newco Rangers for the debt, given that it's still trading as essentially the same company?:dunno:

[GordonHFC]

Liquidation day should be 12th July :thumbsup:

[matty_f]

The individual assets have not been offered for sale. Why do they sell it as a job lot when it may achieve more independently? Will someone ask D+P why MacGregor or Naismith werent sold to realise money. That would be realised now the season is over.

I hope vienna follow thorugh with their complaints to FIFA and UEFA as all the timings here stinks to the high heavens. This administration process and subsequent liquidation was pre planned long before valentines day.

FIFA/UEFA should definitely be getting involved where other clubs are getting stiffed for their money.

Are newco Rangers entitled to any of the Jelavic money? Surely it would stand to reason that if they're ditching the debt then they're also ditching what's due to them as well...

I think it's clear that Duff and Duffer have been incompetent in their handling of this administration. Absolute minimal cost cutting has taken place, they actually signed off bringing in a player (Cousin) and only the SPL put the kaibosh on that one. They've led several prospective buyers up the garden path and strung out the process as long as possible, all the while whittling down the money available to the creditors. It's been an absolute sham.

That's not to mention the alleged conflict of interest around the Ticketus deal as well.

Someone's clearly going to be laughing all the way to the bank on this deal, I just hope that the relevant authorities catch them.

[Spike Mandela]

FIFA/UEFA should definitely be getting involved where other clubs are getting stiffed for their money.

Are newco Rangers entitled to any of the Jelavic money? Surely it would stand to reason that if they're ditching the debt then they're also ditching what's due to them as well...

I think it's clear that Duff and Duffer have been incompetent in their handling of this administration. Absolute minimal cost cutting has taken place, they actually signed off bringing in a player (Cousin) and only the SPL put the kaibosh on that one. They've led several prospective buyers up the garden path and strung out the process as long as possible, all the while whittling down the money available to the creditors. It's been an absolute sham.

That's not to mention the alleged conflict of interest around the Ticketus deal as well.

Someone's clearly going to be laughing all the way to the bank on this deal, I just hope that the relevant authorities catch them.

This is now the blueprint for all clus chasing success..........

Spend, spend, spend, withhold tax, administration, liquidation, newco then start again. If the SPL do not nip this in the bud by not allowing the newco in I will be expecting Petrie and others to be spending millions in this summers transfer window.

[BarneyK]

FIFA/UEFA should definitely be getting involved where other clubs are getting stiffed for their money.

Are newco Rangers entitled to any of the Jelavic money? Surely it would stand to reason that if they're ditching the debt then they're also ditching what's due to them as well...

I think it's clear that Duff and Duffer have been incompetent in their handling of this administration. Absolute minimal cost cutting has taken place, they actually signed off bringing in a player (Cousin) and only the SPL put the kaibosh on that one. They've led several prospective buyers up the garden path and strung out the process as long as possible, all the while whittling down the money available to the creditors. It's been an absolute sham.

That's not to mention the alleged conflict of interest around the Ticketus deal as well.

Someone's clearly going to be laughing all the way to the bank on this deal, I just hope that the relevant authorities catch them.

Very good point :top marks

[Viva_Palmeiras]

:agree: I'm wondering if BDO can throw a spanner in the works of that deal and stop Greene picking up the club for a pittance, and in the process shaft all the creditors.

Also, can't HMRC just pursue newco Rangers for the debt, given that it's still trading as essentially the same company?:dunno:

Tsk tsk Matty - did you not catch (any) episode of Watchdog where these dodgy workmen get barred and setup under a different name? ;) presume it's same rules apply just on a grander scale.

Where Lynne Faulds-Wood when you need her? "it could be a potential deathtrap!"

[CropleyWasGod]

Very good point :top marks

It will be recovered for OldCo by the liquidators, and paid out to the creditors in the normal way.

[BarneyK]

It will be recovered for OldCo by the liquidators, and paid out to the creditors in the normal way.

It's not due until January next year I think. Are they likely to still be hanging around then? That must be a scunner for the Huns. The papers had them bumping Rapid and collecting the £5m themselves once the CVA was all done and dusted :greengrin

[CropleyWasGod]

It's not due until January next year I think. Are they likely to still be hanging around then? That must be a scunner for the Huns. The papers had them bumping Rapid and collecting the £5m themselves once the CVA was all done and dusted :greengrin

Liquidations can go on for years. The Airdrie one was only completed a couple of years ago.

Besides, if they weren't, Everton would have no-one to pay.

[DH1875]

FIFA/UEFA should definitely be getting involved where other clubs are getting stiffed for their money.

Are newco Rangers entitled to any of the Jelavic money? Surely it would stand to reason that if they're ditching the debt then they're also ditching what's due to them as well...


That's one of the things I could never understand. Green was talking about the money Everton owe them and how they'd use it and then in the same breath trying to get a CVA and bump Vienna out of the money they owed them, for Jelavic :confused:.

[number9dream]

If, and it's a big if, Rangers can take players with them to newco. What's to stop Green & co selling McGregor & Naismith for £6m on Friday - £500,000 up 24 hours after shedding potential debts of £100+m!

Not sure HMRC come out of this very well. Creditors get nothing through liquidation.

Surely taxman would have been better off compelling Rangers to sell off assets such as top players and Murray Park to top up CVA. Why on earth did Duff & Phelps not do this from minute one? Instead they have carried on paying salaries to folk like Sandy Jardine for being a "club ambassador" and continue to fork out £20,000 a week for Media House PR. I guess it's not their money but they are duty-bound to serve best interests of those owed cash. Are they just interested in filling their own pockets and maybe giving wee Whytie a back-hander? Don't bother answering that...

Rangers getting a vote on a new Rangers getting back into the SPL? It's like a Kafka story!

It needs to be 8-4 in their favour right? Hibs, Celtic, maybe Aberdeen and Dundee Utd to vote against. With that dimwit Doncaster will be peddaling the "loss of TV revenue" line, I just can't see any of the others looking beyond their coffers...

[BarneyK]

If, and it's a big if, Rangers can take players with them to newco. What's to stop Green & co selling McGregor & Naismith for £6m on Friday - £500,000 up 24 hours after shedding potential debts of £100+m!

Not sure HMRC come out of this very well. Creditors get nothing through liquidation.


Maybe HMRC has another plan to screw more money out of them? We'll need to wait and see. :dunno:

[Cropley10]

It exists at the moment, when do they cease to exist? When they go into liquidation? The way I have read the new co route is that they would leave the old co in existence, however HMRC may move quickly to liquidate meaning old co is no longer a member of the spl and this could all happen before the spl votes. If that's the case surely new co couldn't vote?

HMRC may move to liquidate etc.

Well if they don't and Oldco still exists they still exist.

RFC 1872 may soon be no more but if they turn up at ER next season, same badge, same strip, same songs, same ******, then what, exactly, is the difference?

[ScottB]

I can see plenty clubs going bust if they get back into the SPL.

Why? The banks.

What we will have is a precedent that says SPL clubs can ditch their debts and basically carry on scot free. Just watch how quickly the banks cancel overdrafts and call in loans as that money will overnight become a massive toxic risk to them.

[ehf]

It will be recovered for OldCo by the liquidators, and paid out to the creditors in the normal way.

Suspect the plan is that it will transfer to Newco under "Receivables" as part of D+P/Green/Whyte's tawdry little scheme, but HMRC/BDO will not be having any of that!

[Brando7]

I can see plenty clubs going bust if they get back into the SPL.

Why? The banks.

What we will have is a precedent that says SPL clubs can ditch their debts and basically carry on scot free. Just watch how quickly the banks cancel overdrafts and call in loans as that money will overnight become a massive toxic risk to them.

Couldn't agree more, have said this a few weeks ago n hope the clubs have this at the back of their minds come vote time

[snooky]

"If the players choose not to transfer they will then be in breach of contract," Green :cb told the club website.

"But we want all of the staff and players to get behind what we are trying to do."
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

If I was a RFC player, the first statement would kinda sour me to the second.

[Andy Bee]

This maybe controversial but would keeping them in the SPL be such a bad thing.......I'm starting to think that SFL3 wouldn't be as bad as some people may think for them. If you think about it, and assuming they retain Ibrox and the rest of the assets, they're going to steamroller the lower leagues, they'll spend just enough to make sure they walk it, hundreds of thousands as opposed to millions of pounds on wages, all the time gathering in around £15m in season ticket sales and more in renewed sponsorship deals. It would be business as usual within four years with a war chest at the ready.

Personally I'd like to see them stay in the SPL but be held responsible for every penny of debt they've managed to rack up, a payment plan put in place, the Euro ban still being imposed and somehow the transfer embargo re-instated.

RFC......The whipping boys of the SPL...........that's the stuff dreams are made of. :agree:

P.S and they chuck in a free slap, without prosecution, at Barry the crab, Mark Hately, Sally, Peter Lovenkrands, Barry the crab again, Ian Black (yup I know he's not a hun but he has been linked) McGregor, McGregor, McGregor and Barry the crab again :agree:

[Brando7]

http://www.sfo.gov.uk/fraud/what-is-fraud/corporate-fraud/asset-stripping.aspx

Greens plan down to a t all here

[The Green Goblin]

Errmmm - the whole point is that they haven't paid money due to the taxman. Is this guy for real? :rolleyes:

Totally. I thought that was an outrageous statement.

[cabbageandribs1875]

"If the players choose not to transfer they will then be in breach of contract," Green :cb told the club website.

"But we want all of the staff and players to get behind what we are trying to do."
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

If I was a RFC player, the first statement would kinda sour me to the second.


took this from a thread on swallow swallow



RANGERS stars have been told they CAN walk away from an Ibrox newco.

Players’ union chief Fraser Wishart has advised Ally McCoist’s stars that they are free to leave a liquidated club.

The registration row could end up in court though, as administrators Duff & Phelps are at odds with PFA Scotland’s stance.

Anxious Gers heroes were last night considering their futures after the hammer blow of liquidation.

Kirk Broadfoot told SunSport: “The PFA have told the players that we can leave the club if it’s a newco. If the PFA are right, the whole team could walk out for nothing.

“Most of the boys are big Rangers fans, that’s why you’ve not really seen anyone leave.

“I’m sitting here worried about what the future holds.”

PFA Scotland have already briefed the stars on their employment rights. New laws brought in six years ago allow staff to leave businesses which plunge into liquidation.

Wishart insists the rules are straightforward.

The former Gers star said: “They would be free agents. Registration dies with the club and the player would be free to go.




not too sure about broadfeet being a gers hero though :greengrin

[jgl07]

The Scotsman's predictions on the vote:

http://www.scotsman.com/sport/football/spl/rangers-takeover-how-spl-clubs-might-vote-on-newco-in-top-flight-1-2351524

[ScottB]

Good, frankly I think it's only going to take one or two legal battles to hold this nonsense up long enough that there'll be no Rangers at all next season.

I really can't see a full newco being created with a usable squad in what, a month / 6 weeks tops?

[SteveHFC]

CHARLES GREEN last night warned SPL rivals: Boot out Rangers and you will KILL our game.

Read more: http://www.thescottishsun.co.uk/scotsol/homepage/sport/spl/4369803/Bury-us-and-you-kill-Scottish-football.html#ixzz1xcrW3BWn

[DH1875]

The Scotsman's predictions on the vote:

http://www.scotsman.com/sport/football/spl/rangers-takeover-how-spl-clubs-might-vote-on-newco-in-top-flight-1-2351524



Going by that we've only got 4 votes :worried:.

[Togs91]

Lets just hope that if the newco ARE voted back into the spl, that there is enough uproar to send that cheating git doncaster packing with a boot mark up his erse!

[1875godsgift]

CHARLES GREEN last night warned SPL rivals: Boot out Rangers and you will KILL our game.



Read more: http://www.thescottishsun.co.uk/scotsol/homepage/sport/spl/4369803/Bury-us-and-you-kill-Scottish-football.html#ixzz1xcrW3BWn



OUR GAME!?

So how long have you been interested in our game?

How much have you invested in OUR GAME at grassroots level?

£100 million of unpaid tax would have made a hell of a lot more difference to the lives of underprivileged children rather than funding the fat cats who have EBT benefited enough already. ( Murray Ogilvie, Sounness take note )

[Mibbes Aye]

This maybe controversial but would keeping them in the SPL be such a bad thing.......I'm starting to think that SFL3 wouldn't be as bad as some people may think for them. If you think about it, and assuming they retain Ibrox and the rest of the assets, they're going to steamroller the lower leagues, they'll spend just enough to make sure they walk it, hundreds of thousands as opposed to millions of pounds on wages, all the time gathering in around £15m in season ticket sales and more in renewed sponsorship deals. It would be business as usual within four years with a war chest at the ready.

Personally I'd like to see them stay in the SPL but be held responsible for every penny of debt they've managed to rack up, a payment plan put in place, the Euro ban still being imposed and somehow the transfer embargo re-instated.

RFC......The whipping boys of the SPL...........that's the stuff dreams are made of. :agree:

P.S and they chuck in a free slap, without prosecution, at Barry the crab, Mark Hately, Sally, Peter Lovenkrands, Barry the crab again, Ian Black (yup I know he's not a hun but he has been linked) McGregor, McGregor, McGregor and Barry the crab again :agree:

Let's face it, if justice means anything it has to be seen to be fair and above petty personal prejudice.

And I think you've called it just about right there :agree:

[Part/Time Supporter]

This maybe controversial but would keeping them in the SPL be such a bad thing.......I'm starting to think that SFL3 wouldn't be as bad as some people may think for them. If you think about it, and assuming they retain Ibrox and the rest of the assets, they're going to steamroller the lower leagues, they'll spend just enough to make sure they walk it, hundreds of thousands as opposed to millions of pounds on wages, all the time gathering in around £15m in season ticket sales and more in renewed sponsorship deals. It would be business as usual within four years with a war chest at the ready.

Personally I'd like to see them stay in the SPL but be held responsible for every penny of debt they've managed to rack up, a payment plan put in place, the Euro ban still being imposed and somehow the transfer embargo re-instated.

RFC......The whipping boys of the SPL...........that's the stuff dreams are made of. :agree:

P.S and they chuck in a free slap, without prosecution, at Barry the crab, Mark Hately, Sally, Peter Lovenkrands, Barry the crab again, Ian Black (yup I know he's not a hun but he has been linked) McGregor, McGregor, McGregor and Barry the crab again :agree:

That isn't an option, because they are literally setting up a new company, which isn't liable for Rangers debts. It's either let them in debt free or kick them out. The only way to effectively punish them is to kick them out. If they manage to get their act together and earn the right to play in the SPL again, fair enough.

[Lucius Apuleius]

If they are allowed to stay in the SPL with the previous sanctions imposed the probability is they would finish in the bottom 6. Where would this put the much trumpeted (but I have never seen confirmed) TV clause that says there must be 4 Rantic games?

[Spike Mandela]

Jim Traynor really has become Apologist in Chief for the Rangers cause..........

http://www.dailyrecord.co.uk/footbal...6908-23895126/


“A newco will have to shoulder the responsibility and possibly even the punishments of the old company if they want the licences to play.”
Yet outside, in the real world, a newco would have a clean slate but in Scottish football’s parallel universe corporate and civil laws don’t always apply.
And when they do it’s only to suit the authorities’ agendas."

No outrage at the tax avoidance, no outrage the sporting advantage gained and no outrage at the sheer enormity of this clubs scandal and lack of acceptance of guilt.Certainly no case put for simplythe fact that the right thing has to be seen to be done.

Outrage though at Rangers not getting a free ride and a sly dig at the authoities 'agenda' and a clear ignoring of the asset stripping agenda of Charles Green.

The campaign is on full throttle now to get Rangers an easy route back in. Sickening

[HibeeMG]

Jim Traynor really has become Apologist in Chief for the Rangers cause..........

http://www.dailyrecord.co.uk/footbal...6908-23895126/


“A newco will have to shoulder the responsibility and possibly even the punishments of the old company if they want the licences to play.”
Yet outside, in the real world, a newco would have a clean slate but in Scottish football’s parallel universe corporate and civil laws don’t always apply.
And when they do it’s only to suit the authorities’ agendas."

No outrage at the tax avoidance, no outrage the sporting advantage gained and no outrage at the sheer enormity of this clubs scandal and lack of acceptance of guilt.Certainly no case put for simplythe fact that the right thing has to be seen to be done.

Outrage though at Rangers not getting a free ride and a sly dig at the authoities 'agenda' and a clear ignoring of the asset stripping agenda of Charles Green.

The campaign is on full throttle now to get Rangers an easy route back in. Sickening

I understand what he's saying.

What he doesn't seem to realise is that you cannot compare a NewCo within football to a NewCo in 'the real world'.

A NewCo in everyday life would more than likely have hurdles which Rangers will not. For instance, Rangers, when they emerge as a new entity will have a 'loyal' customer base all ready and willing to purchase their product. A normal NewCo would have lost most, if not all of it's customers.

[Spike Mandela]

I understand what he's saying.

What he doesn't seem to realise is that you cannot compare a NewCo within football to a NewCo in 'the real world'.

A NewCo in everyday life would more than likely have hurdles which Rangers will not. For instance, Rangers, when they emerge as a new entity will have a 'loyal' customer base all ready and willing to purchase their product. A normal NewCo would have lost most, if not all of it's customers.

Yes but the tone of ALL of Traynor's pieces during this scandal have portrayed Rangers as victims. This is patently not the case.

[HibeeMG]

Yes but the tone of ALL of Traynor's pieces during this scandal have portrayed Rangers as victims. This is patently not the case.

I totally agree, he's been one of the worst hun-apologists in the media from the start.

I was just debating his reasoning.

[Biggie]

They are all the same, they'd sell their soul to sell newspapers...

[Seveno]

If oldco are put into liquidation before the SPL vote, then I do not see how 'Rangers' will get a vote on allowing newco into the SPL. How can a club that does not exist get a vote.

Am I missing something ?

If I am correct, please get a move on Hector.

[HH81]

How can they release the fixtures on Monday now :confused:

[Kato]

How can they release the fixtures on Monday now :confused:

Because they think we are all mugs and treat us accordingly.

[GreenPJ]

How can they release the fixtures on Monday now :confused:

I think they are right to release the fixtures. The season does not stop regardless of Rangers existence. Should they disappear they are replaced by someone else. It may mean tinkering with what were old firm games but other than that they should stand.

[Thecat23]

How can they release the fixtures on Monday now :confused:

Its a strange one. The fixtures that will include Rangers are put in place so they don't clash with Celtic at home. If say Dundee were included instead, what happens if Rangers were meant to be at home to say Hibs but Dundee replace them and are at home to us on the same day Utd are too? I think they need to re think how they are going to work it all out.

[Jim44]

I think they are right to release the fixtures. The season does not stop regardless of Rangers existence. Should they disappear they are replaced by someone else. It may mean tinkering with what were old firm games but other than that they should stand.

Some people are trying to say that the publishing of the fixtures will throw arrangements into chaos. What's the big deal? The SFA could borrow a laptop for a couple of hours and rearrange the whole thing with a few clicks of the mouse. This is not an issue.

[Bill Milne]

Without the Huns, the fixture list should be revisited to ensure a fairer allocation of fixtures for all clubs, not just arranged to suit the Bigot Brothers.

[Lucius Apuleius]

Without the Huns, the fixture list should be revisited to ensure a fairer allocation of fixtures for all clubs, not just arranged to suit the Bigot Brothers.

Not quite understanding this mate. Care to elaborate? we are all allocated the same fixtures are we not?

[greenginger]

Just back from hols last night and a bit unclear on some issues.

Does Green's £ 5.5 Million get him Rangers property assets, Ibrox, Murray Park etc. or only the Club ?

[Jim44]

Just back from hols last night and a bit unclear on some issues.

Does Green's £ 5.5 Million get him Rangers property assets, Ibrox, Murray Park etc. or only the Club ?

It appears he gets the whole shooting match but there is some difference of opinion about the status of player contracts

[Nazz]

Its a strange one. The fixtures that will include Rangers are put in place so they don't clash with Celtic at home. If say Dundee were included instead, what happens if Rangers were meant to be at home to say Hibs but Dundee replace them and are at home to us on the same day Utd are too? I think they need to re think how they are going to work it all out.


An easy one to fix. Celtic and Rangers are in the same city, so replace them with Dundee and Dundee United in the fixture list. Then Celtic can take over the original Dundee United fixtures. Sorted!

What about fixture clashes if/when Rangers are in another league? OK, let's not go there...

[Biggie]

I must admit I dont get this...how can the liquidators not take Ibrox and Murray Park and sell to help pay the creditors ?.....surely if they have asset stripped rangers that's fraud, no ?.....'kin dont get it....seems the only penalty is they are being papped into div 3, and have to change their name...bigwow.....I want blood !

[joe breezy]

A real journalist speaks....(in 1976) Ian Archer - a true Jag

http://img443.imageshack.us/img443/9913/ianarcher.jpg

[StevieC]

Its a strange one. The fixtures that will include Rangers are put in place so they don't clash with Celtic at home. If say Dundee were included instead, what happens if Rangers were meant to be at home to say Hibs but Dundee replace them and are at home to us on the same day Utd are too? I think they need to re think how they are going to work it all out.

Fixtures are easy to adjust. There are set formula to allow you to prevent home clashes for as many pairs of teams as you want. Dundee Utd could be paired with a team that isn't an issue (eg St Johnstone) and if Dundee are the team that replaces Rangers then St Johnstone take on Rangers fixtures and Dundee take on St Johnstones.

The only issue is how quickly they decide on the final league setup

[GreenPJ]

A real journalist speaks....(in 1976) Ian Archer - a true Jag

http://img443.imageshack.us/img443/9913/ianarcher.jpg

I wonder what traynor and co would make of that.

[grunt]

Stream of consciousness reporting

http://www.thescottishsun.co.uk/scotsol/homepage/sport/spl/4369672/Culprits-must-pay-price-after-killing-off-my-club.html#ixzz1xdIhsp1V

[Kato]

Stream of consciousness reporting

http://www.thescottishsun.co.uk/scotsol/homepage/sport/spl/4369672/Culprits-must-pay-price-after-killing-off-my-club.html#ixzz1xdIhsp1V

I don’t know if it’s Craig Whyte or whoever.


Whoever off course being Sir David Murray. Why do none of these ex-players just say so?

[ancienthibby]

I don’t know if it’s Craig Whyte or whoever.

Whoever off course being Sir David Murray. Why do none of these ex-players just say so?

Patience, Kato, patience - it's all going to come out in the wash thanks to Hector!:agree:

And this thread will double in size as the new soap storyline unfolds week after week.

By opting for liquidation, Hector has opened the door for the liquidators (BDO) to pursue all Hunco directors over the past three years and I suspect that is something that BDO will already have been instructed about.

Can't wait for the result to be published tomorrow and watch a Securicor van pull out of the back entrance to Ipox with Duff and Duffer hiding inside while the BDO boys walk through the front door armed to the teeth with robust mandates.:cb

There will be no easy sleeps for all the ex-Hunco directors and no hiding places either.:aok: