Generic Sevco / Rangers meltdown thread

[PatHead]

I am really trying to get my head round this, and what it means for Hibs.

Is there any way before next season that Rangers avoid liquidation?

a. Rangers are liquidated and have to: -
i. Start in the 3rd as Newco
ii. SPL Clubs cave in and Newco is allowed in to the SPL

In both these scenarios Hibs will stay up.

What are the other alternatives?

I would suspect they would still relegate Dunfermline or Hibs to accomodate Rangers as they couldn't have a 13 team league. Only alternative would be to invite other clubs to make 14/16 team league which is purely co-incidental now that Celtic are promoting a 14 team league

Maybe I'm just being cynical though

[Jack]

The whole legal mess will make coming out of administration all the harder even assuming (implausibly) that HMRC will accept a CVA and the Ticketout issue will be resolved.

Duff and Phelps have got enough leeway with the voluntary wage reductions to keep Rangers in business till the end of the season. If these legal issues are not resolved by then, it is hard to think out any outcome bar liquidation.

The 'bids' for Rangers are bordering on fantasy football:

Assuming that Craig Whyte hands over his shares for hee-haw, assuming that HMRC will accept a 5 pence in the pound CVA assuming that Ticketout will forgo their rights to future ticket sales in return for a 5 pence in the pound CVA, assuming that the debenture holders do not kick up a fuss.

The SPL have a couple of weeks to untangle themselves from a real mess for next season. Do they put Rangers in the fixture list for next season when there is a strong probability that they will not be there? This risks total meltdown for the SPL.

Act now and dock Rangers enough points to put them into the bottom six before the split and to ensure they will be relegated then the problem is transferred to the SFL.

I get the feeling the SPL have done exactly the opposite by not investigating the double contract issue at this time (unless I missed it).

Double contracts would mean ineligible players have been playing for the club all season which would mean a punishment. The going rate is a 3 – 0 defeat for every match they have played effectively putting them on -46 points for this season (never mind previous seasons).

By the time the SPL take action the new season will have started, points will be deducted retrospectively but it will be too late for them to join another league, whether that’s SFL1 or SFL3 – or at least that’s what we’ll be told.

[greenginger]

I am really trying to get my head round this, and what it means for Hibs.

Is there any way before next season that Rangers avoid liquidation?

a. Rangers are liquidated and have to: -
i. Start in the 3rd as Newco
ii. SPL Clubs cave in and Newco is allowed in to the SPL

In both these scenarios Hibs will stay up.

What are the other alternatives?

How would Hibs necessarily stay up in situation ii. Bottom team would still go down unless Ross County are prevented from promotion because their ground is not up to SPL specification by 31st March, or the League is enlarged.

[Bristolhibby]

How would Hibs necessarily stay up in situation ii. Bottom team would still go down unless Ross County are prevented from promotion because their ground is not up to SPL specification by 31st March, or the League is enlarged.

I presume we would veto the move (if we were bottom). Rangers would not have a vote (as they wouldn't exist).

I honestly don't think there is any governance for this happening, but it would be an amazingly bitter pill to swallow that we go down and the Huns (newco) buy there way in.

Sorry chaps, Rangers out, no relegation and Ross County promoted.

J

[CropleyWasGod]

I presume we would veto the move (if we were bottom). Rangers would not have a vote (as they wouldn't exist).

I honestly don't think there is any governance for this happening, but it would be an amazingly bitter pill to swallow that we go down and the Huns (newco) buy there way in.

Sorry chaps, Rangers out, no relegation and Ross County promoted.

J

You're missing my earlier point. If we are bottom, we are relegated. No matter whether Rangers are out or in.

[ancienthibby]

How would Hibs necessarily stay up in situation ii. Bottom team would still go down unless Ross County are prevented from promotion because their ground is not up to SPL specification by 31st March, or the League is enlarged.


Are you sure that end date is right?

Ross County are run by Roy MacGregor who has just re-opened the Nigg Oil Fabrication Yard, so I would put money on it that he will have the ground completely ready by the due date.:agree:

We should not pin any hopes on us getting such a lifeline by RC's default. Won't happen.:greengrin

[Golden Bear]

Are you sure that end date is right?

Ross County are run by Roy MacGregor who has just re-opened the Nigg Oil Fabrication Yard, so I would put money on it that he will have the ground completely ready by the due date.:agree:

We should not pin any hopes on us getting such a lifeline by RC's default. Won't happen.:greengrin


I think I'm right in saying that Ross County have already submitted a request for permission to groundshare with Inverness Caley until such time that their own stadium is SPL compliant.

[PatHead]

I think I'm right in saying that Ross County have already submitted a request for permission to groundshare with Inverness Caley until such time that their own stadium is SPL compliant.

:agree:

[Lix]

Alix, did you read the Scots Law blog and the link to the bit about Scots/English Law?

Scots Law and Ticketus (http://loveandgarbage.wordpress.com/2012/03/24/rangers-and-ticketus/)

Yes, I did. I had a specific question about the debentures though.

Usually they have some kind of fixed or at least floating charge in the UK (unlike in the US) but I have seen ones issued by sporting companies that don't pay interest and have varying level of security (or not) hence I asked the question.

It appears from Caversham Green's reply that he knows the terms of these debentures and that they aren't secured, which answered my question.

Thanks guys!

[PaulSmith]

http://www.saintmirren.net/pages/?p=11389

[CropleyWasGod]

http://www.saintmirren.net/pages/?p=11389

Bloody hell.

And that's just what they have found out. :rolleyes:

[Part/Time Supporter]

http://www.saintmirren.net/pages/?p=11389

Interesting, but TBH that has got more to do with St. Mirren internal politics.

[JeMeSouviens]

SPL Rules



Club ceasing to play and be a member of the League

H5

If any Club in the League ceases to operate or to be member of
the League for any reason, its playing record in the League may
be expunged and the number of relegation places from the
League shall be reduced accordingly.


So if they go bust before end of season we're safe.

[CropleyWasGod]

SPL Rules



So if they go bust before end of season we're safe.

Fair enough. I'm sure someone said on here that the bottom club gets relegated, come what may.

But I like it :agree:

[JeMeSouviens]

Fair enough. I'm sure someone said on here that the bottom club gets relegated, come what may.

But I like it :agree:

Here's the rules:

http://www.scotprem.com/content/mediaassets/doc/SPL%20Rules%20as%20at%2018-Apr-11%20(CURRENT).pdf

Apart from what I quoted above, I can't see anything about a club going bust. The normal rule governing promotion/relegation is



A2.1 The League shall consist of 12 leading association football clubs in Scotland. The association football clubs eligible to participate in the League in any Season shall, subject to the Articles of Association and Rules, be those Clubs which participated in the League in the immediately preceding Season, except that, subject to Rules A2.2, A2.3 and A2.4, the Club finishing in last place in the League in the immediately preceding Season shall not be eligible to participate in the League and shall be relegated to the SFL and the Candidate Club shall be promoted from the SFL and admitted entry to the League.

[Andy74]

Fair enough. I'm sure someone said on here that the bottom club gets relegated, come what may.

But I like it :agree:

You'd think so. Bottom of the SPL in those circumstances probably has slightly more right to stay there than a team finishing second in the SFL.

[stokesmessiah]

Bloody hell.

And that's just what they have found out. :rolleyes:

Was there not something a while ago about Der Hun trying to buy St Mirren?

It looks to the cynical eye that they have known for a while what was coming and in an underhanded way were making provisions for it. I personally dont believe that an "institution" like RFC would behave in said manner though.

[CropleyWasGod]

Here's the rules:

http://www.scotprem.com/content/mediaassets/doc/SPL%20Rules%20as%20at%2018-Apr-11%20(CURRENT).pdf

Apart from what I quoted above, I can't see anything about a club going bust. The normal rule governing promotion/relegation is

... and that seems to back up what I was suggesting. Last place in the League gets relegated, come what may.

Although one could interpret it, along with the previous section you quoted, as saying that anybody who goes bust automatically goes to the bottom of the League.

:confused:

[CropleyWasGod]

Was there not something a while ago about Der Hun trying to buy St Mirren?

It looks to the cynical eye that they have known for a while what was coming and in an underhanded way were making provisions for it. I personally dont believe that an "institution" like RFC would behave in said manner though.

The dates on that report tie in with what was reported a few weeks ago. The initial approach from (?) McGeoch to buy the club was made through Collyer Bristow. Since then, he has sacked them and uses someone else.

[down-the-slope]

Club ceasing to play and be a member of the League

H5

If any Club in the League ceases to operate or to be member of
the League for any reason, its playing record in the League may
be expunged and the number of relegation places from the
League shall be reduced accordingly.

If its May Not then no expunging and no reduction in relegation.....what way do you think the choice will fall :rolleyes:

[mim]

Club ceasing to play and be a member of the League

H5

If any Club in the League ceases to operate or to be member of
the League for any reason, its playing record in the League may
be expunged and the number of relegation places from the
League shall be reduced accordingly.

If its May Not then no expunging and no reduction in relegation.....what way do you think the choice will fall :rolleyes:

The first is 'may' the second is 'shall'

[greenginger]

For a club going bust its the SPL Articles of Association that should be referred to.



http://www.scotprem.com/content/default.asp?page=s43
Go to Clause 14 and it explains what happens to the share of bust club or a club merely in administration if the League is so inclined.

[CentreLine]

http://www.saintmirren.net/pages/?p=11389

But they don't answer the question in their press statement whether or not they used EBT's. One wonders why not. Interesting that rangers people were so very interested though. Wonder what other low bowlers are in there?

[CropleyWasGod]

But they don't answer the question in their press statement whether or not they used EBT's. One wonders why not. Interesting that rangers people were so very interested though. Wonder what other low bowlers are in there?

If they do use EBT's, it would probably be disclosed in their accounts. The Rangers guys should have known that.... perhaps they were suggesting that St.M might not be as transparent as Rangers.:rolleyes:

[jgl07]

You're missing my earlier point. If we are bottom, we are relegated. No matter whether Rangers are out or in.

When did this rule come in?

It certainly didn't apply in 2000 when Aberdeen finished bottom and were not relegated or in 2003 when Motherwell were bottom and stayed up.

[greenginger]

When did this rule come in?

It certainly didn't apply in 2000 when Aberdeen finished bottom and were not relegated or in 2003 when Motherwell were bottom and stayed up.


If Rangers are liquidated their share goes to whoever the SPL decide should have the share. It could be the team who was relegated, it could go back to Rangers or to the team who finishes 2nd in Div 1.
Its all laid out in the SPL Articles of Association Clause 14. and all SPL clubs vote on where the Share goes.

[JeMeSouviens]

If Rangers are liquidated their share goes to whoever the SPL decide should have the share. It could be the team who was relegated, it could go back to Rangers or to the team who finishes 2nd in Div 1.
Its all laid out in the SPL Articles of Association Clause 14. and all SPL clubs vote on where the Share goes.

Thanks for the pointers, greenginger.

So, that's clear. All this pish in the papers about the 6 members of the SPL board deciding is typically uninformed media drivel. :rolleyes:

SPL articles of association - clause 14



that Member or its manager, receiver, administrative receiver, administrator or liquidator or any other person entitled to the Share shall, on receiving notice in writing from the Board following the Company in General Meeting passing a Qualified Resolution that such notice should be issued by the Board and confirming the identity of the proposed transferee, transfer its Share to such other person as the Board shall direct at the price of £1 and the Club owned and operated by such Member shall forthwith cease to be a member of the League and the Club owned and operated by the transferee shall become a member of the League in its place.


Bit in bold means a meeting of all the members and 90% must vote in favour. So only 2 clubs needed to block NewHuns.

[Spike Mandela]

A no doubt hilarious account for you financial types...........

http://www.twohundredpercent.net/?p=18005

[JeMeSouviens]

A no doubt hilarious account for you financial types...........

http://www.twohundredpercent.net/?p=18005

It's too true to be funny. The amount of crap peddled by all manner of idiots in the Scottish press and broadcasting is getting to unimaginable proportions. Last night's Sportsound programme was particularly brutal. There was, of course, the by now routine rubbish from Chick Young about der Hun having done nothing illegal etc etc., but new heights in stupidity were surely reached by John "Robbo" Robertson. He offered the suggestion that rather than separate HMRC, SPL, SFA, etc enquiries, one body could look into all of Rangers' alleged misdeeds: non-discretionary EBT payments, incorrect player registrations, failure to pay PAYE/VAT, lack of fit and proper officials. He suggested the police. Jesus ****** wept.

[grunt]

... new heights in stupidity were surely reached by John "Robbo" Robertson. He offered the suggestion that rather than separate HMRC, SPL, SFA, etc enquiries, one body could look into all of Rangers' alleged misdeeds: non-discretionary EBT payments, incorrect player registrations, failure to pay PAYE/VAT, lack of fit and proper officials. He suggested the police. Jesus ****** wept.I heard that last night and laughed until I cried.

[calmac12000]

It's too true to be funny. The amount of crap peddled by all manner of idiots in the Scottish press and broadcasting is getting to unimaginable proportions. Last night's Sportsound programme was particularly brutal. There was, of course, the by now routine rubbish from Chick Young about der Hun having done nothing illegal etc etc., but new heights in stupidity were surely reached by John "Robbo" Robertson. He offered the suggestion that rather than separate HMRC, SPL, SFA, etc enquiries, one body could look into all of Rangers' alleged misdeeds: non-discretionary EBT payments, incorrect player registrations, failure to pay PAYE/VAT, lack of fit and proper officials. He suggested the police. Jesus ****** wept.

Aye, and maybe that body could simply turn back the clock,to lets say August and then proceed as nothing untoward has come to light. What really sticks in my craw is the way in which the media construct and peddle their version of reality. In the hope that the rest of us will be so naive as to accept it no questions asked.
I have to admit that the behaviour of the media has been in the main shocking and an affront to the supposed norms of 21st Century Scotland.

[johnrebus]

It's too true to be funny. The amount of crap peddled by all manner of idiots in the Scottish press and broadcasting is getting to unimaginable proportions. Last night's Sportsound programme was particularly brutal. There was, of course, the by now routine rubbish from Chick Young about der Hun having done nothing illegal etc etc., but new heights in stupidity were surely reached by John "Robbo" Robertson. He offered the suggestion that rather than separate HMRC, SPL, SFA, etc enquiries, one body could look into all of Rangers' alleged misdeeds: non-discretionary EBT payments, incorrect player registrations, failure to pay PAYE/VAT, lack of fit and proper officials. He suggested the police. Jesus ****** wept.


There was so much **** being talked last night I ended up switching off long before the end. The only person worth listening to is Jim Spence, but I get the feeling he has been told to tone his views down.

I've heard it said that John Robertson has a son who is a season ticket holder at ER? If this is true he must be embarrassed by some of the garbage that comes out of his father's mouth......,


Words cannot describe how bad Sportsound has become.


:grr:

[CropleyWasGod]

Talking of irresponsible journalism:-

http://www.heraldscotland.com/comment/tom-shields-on/blue-skies-over-ibrox.17152113

Shields really has it in for us, doesn't he? :greengrin

[Keith_M]

Talking of irresponsible journalism:-

http://www.heraldscotland.com/comment/tom-shields-on/blue-skies-over-ibrox.17152113

Shields really has it in for us, doesn't he? :greengrin


I'd live with that, if it meant Hibs DID win the Cup


:greengrin

[Ozyhibby]

I'd live with that, if it meant Hibs DID win the Cup


:greengrin

Scary thing is, that was the least believable bit of the article.

[jgl07]

Talking of irresponsible journalism:-

http://www.heraldscotland.com/comment/tom-shields-on/blue-skies-over-ibrox.17152113

Shields really has it in for us, doesn't he? :greengrin

It was a bit below the belt!

Which is more likely?

Rangers to win the Big Tax Case or Hibs to win the Scottish Cup or Celtic to join the Norhern Premier League?

[Hibbyradge]

It was a bit below the belt!

Which is more likely?

Rangers to win the Big Tax Case or Hibs to win the Scottish Cup or Celtic to join the Norhern Premier League?

:boo hoo:

[ancienthibby]

Talking of irresponsible journalism:-

http://www.heraldscotland.com/comment/tom-shields-on/blue-skies-over-ibrox.17152113

Shields really has it in for us, doesn't he? :greengrin


Nah, he doesnae.:greengrin

Think your over-work on this thread and pre-holiday nerves are getting to you, Mr Cropps.:agree:

Do you not remember that, when the pandas arrived, he wrote a brilliant piece about the male panda being a Hibby from Leith??:thumbsup::thumbsup:

So here's a wee booster to get you in shape for your holiday - some travelling companions for you?:cb

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cjI4p8_NZVc&feature=related

[steakbake]

Can anyone confirm or deny that this had now reached the length of the calendar signing thread?

[Hibernia&Alba]

Can anyone confirm or deny that this had now reached the length of the calendar signing thread?


As a newbie, can I ask what that was?

[steakbake]

As a newbie, can I ask what that was?

Has no-one told you about this yet?

[Hibernia&Alba]

Has no-one told you about this yet?

Naw :dunno:

[BroxburnHibee]

Can anyone confirm or deny that this had now reached the length of the calendar signing thread?

Nowhere near it. :greengrin

[steakbake]

Calendar signing, Christmas 2007. Some boy storms on here outraged that when he was making his way round the players, they seemed more interested in the orange juice and sandwiches than showing an interest in him and his laddie. Scott Brown was heard to ask what time the Chelsea game starts... orange juice was spilled... allegations were made.

So it becomes a thread on here which although initially a critical evaluation of the attitude of modern footballers to 'the fans what pay their wages', it soon became an opportunity to get the post count up, seize milestone posts and to have pun offs, pish observations, double entendres and always always always end on a question: has anybody else...?

Hibs.net has gone into decline ever since the day some keyboard hitler decided to relegate it to the archives. By the end, it was hundreds of pages long. Right now, I have a team of 100 monkeys on typewriters, hammering away trying to replicate it, like the complete works of Shakespeare.

Hibs' fortunes have declined ever since and personally I have never regained trust in the powers that be.

That my friend, is the story of the calendar signing thread.

Has anyone else tried to put something in a nutshell?

[snooky]

If Rangers are liquidated their share goes to whoever the SPL decide should have the share. It could be the team who was relegated, it could go back to Rangers or to the team who finishes 2nd in Div 1.
Its all laid out in the SPL Articles of Association Clause 14. and all SPL clubs vote on where the Share goes.

11/1 to get it passed though?
Or will it be 10/1?
Or as would and should happen in a democratic country - i.e anything over 50%

[BroxburnHibee]

Calendar signing, Christmas 2007. Some boy storms on here outraged that when he was making his way round the players, they seemed more interested in the orange juice and sandwiches than showing an interest in him and his laddie. Scott Brown was heard to ask what time the Chelsea game starts... orange juice was spilled... allegations were made.

So it becomes a thread on here which although initially a critical evaluation of the attitude of modern footballers to 'the fans what pay their wages', it soon became an opportunity to get the post count up, seize milestone posts and to have pun offs, pish observations, double entendres and always always always end on a question: has anybody else...?

Hibs.net has gone into decline ever since the day some keyboard hitler decided to relegate it to the archives. By the end, it was hundreds of pages long. Right now, I have a team of 100 monkeys on typewriters, hammering away trying to replicate it, like the complete works of Shakespeare.

Hibs' fortunes have declined ever since and personally I have never regained trust in the powers that be.

That my friend, is the story of the calendar signing thread.

Has anyone else tried to put something in a nutshell?

I'm just hoping Matty doesn't read this :tee hee:

:top marks

[Hibernia&Alba]

Calendar signing, Christmas 2007. Some boy storms on here outraged that when he was making his way round the players, they seemed more interested in the orange juice and sandwiches than showing an interest in him and his laddie. Scott Brown was heard to ask what time the Chelsea game starts... orange juice was spilled... allegations were made.

So it becomes a thread on here which although initially a critical evaluation of the attitude of modern footballers to 'the fans what pay their wages', it soon became an opportunity to get the post count up, seize milestone posts and to have pun offs, pish observations, double entendres and always always always end on a question: has anybody else...?

Hibs.net has gone into decline ever since the day some keyboard hitler decided to relegate it to the archives. By the end, it was hundreds of pages long. Right now, I have a team of 100 monkeys on typewriters, hammering away trying to replicate it, like the complete works of Shakespeare.

Hibs' fortunes have declined ever since and personally I have never regained trust in the powers that be.

That my friend, is the story of the calendar signing thread.

Has anyone else tried to put something in a nutshell?

I'm none the wiser, but it sounds like a madhoose :greengrin

As for this thread, I really hope Rangers don't emerge from all of this smelling of roses, if only for the great work guys like CWG, AncientHibby and others have put into it. They deserve to have their day of gloating at the end of the process.

[Moulin Yarns]

11/1 to get it passed though?
Or will it be 10/1?
Or as would and should happen in a democratic country - i.e anything over 50%

It isn't a figure rather it is a percentage. Assuming the team in question isn't allowed a vote then the 10 clubs would be enough to stop them, as I understand it.

[Keith_M]

.......
Has anyone else tried to put something in a nutshell?



That's a shame, nobody bit. :greengrin


Has anybody else ever bit something they really shouldn't have?



:wink:

[Stonewall]

I'm none the wiser, but it sounds like a madhoose :greengrin

As for this thread, I really hope Rangers don't emerge from all of this smelling of roses, if only for the great work guys like CWG, AncientHibby and others have put into it. They deserve to have their day of gloating at the end of the process.

Go into the vault and have a look for yourself. Doesn't pick up momentum for a while but well worth a visit.

[grunt]

11/1 to get it passed though?
This was another thing that annoyed me about Sportsound or whatever it's called on Tuesday night. Chic was saying that Celtc had offered to start talks about extending the SPL to 14 teams, as a counter to the Gang of 10's argument about changing the voting regime. Not one of the numpties on the show asked what the possible addition of two further teams into the SPL would do to the voting scheme. I would have expected that extending the league to 14 clubs would have made it even harder for the Evil Two to maintain their veto - in that case they would need to change the voting to 13:1 to keep their power. Not one person on the show questioned what the outcome would be, even though they debated Celtc and Lawwell's offer for some minutes.

They really are thick as mince.

[JeMeSouviens]

This was another thing that annoyed me about Sportsound or whatever it's called on Tuesday night. Chic was saying that Celtc had offered to start talks about extending the SPL to 14 teams, as a counter to the Gang of 10's argument about changing the voting regime. Not one of the numpties on the show asked what the possible addition of two further teams into the SPL would do to the voting scheme. I would have expected that extending the league to 14 clubs would have made it even harder for the Evil Two to maintain their veto - in that case they would need to change the voting to 13:1 to keep their power. Not one person on the show questioned what the outcome would be, even though they debated Celtc and Lawwell's offer for some minutes.

They really are thick as mince.

:agree:

They also completely failed to take up the point handed to them on a plate by the Killie chairman on Saturday, ie. Lawwell is prepared to compromise on number of clubs in the league but only if the top 2 league places retain the same %age of the centrally distributed SPL money.

For the record on the voting scheme. The SPL has 3 levels of voting depending on the issue.

Ordinary resolutions require 66% support, 8 clubs.
Special qualified resolutions require 83% support, 10 clubs.
Qualified resolutions require 90% support, 11 clubs.

If they kept the %ages the same it would be 10, 12 and 13 clubs out of 14 respectively.

[lapsedhibee]

Can anyone confirm or deny that this had now reached the length of the calendar signing thread?

I'm not convinced there ever was such a thing.
There might have been a Callander thread
a colunder thread
a Kalinda (off The Guid Wife) thread
but I don't think I ever saw the word calendar.

Was it an essential part of the thread to mispel something?

[matty_f]

Calendar signing, Christmas 2007. Some boy storms on here outraged that when he was making his way round the players, they seemed more interested in the orange juice and sandwiches than showing an interest in him and his laddie. Scott Brown was heard to ask what time the Chelsea game starts... orange juice was spilled... allegations were made.

So it becomes a thread on here which although initially a critical evaluation of the attitude of modern footballers to 'the fans what pay their wages', it soon became an opportunity to get the post count up, seize milestone posts and to have pun offs, pish observations, double entendres and always always always end on a question: has anybody else...?

Hibs.net has gone into decline ever since the day some keyboard hitler decided to relegate it to the archives. By the end, it was hundreds of pages long. Right now, I have a team of 100 monkeys on typewriters, hammering away trying to replicate it, like the complete works of Shakespeare.

Hibs' fortunes have declined ever since and personally I have never regained trust in the powers that be.

That my friend, is the story of the calendar signing thread.

Has anyone else tried to put something in a nutshell?

Fair summary! :greengrin


I'm just hoping Matty doesn't read this :tee hee:

:top marks

:whistle:

Has anyone else had a fair summary?

[steakbake]

I'm not convinced there ever was such a thing.
There might have been a Callander thread
a colunder thread
a Kalinda (off The Guid Wife) thread
but I don't think I ever saw the word calendar.

Was it an essential part of the thread to mispel something?

It could have been a calendar singing thread? An early attempt at section 365?

I'm just not sure. Has anyone else experienced the benefits of calendula?

[Eyrie]

:agree:

They also completely failed to take up the point handed to them on a plate by the Killie chairman on Saturday, ie. Lawwell is prepared to compromise on number of clubs in the league but only if the top 2 league places retain the same %age of the centrally distributed SPL money.


So the other ten clubs would be voting for less money each if they agreed to increase the size of the league? Typical Ugly Sisters.

[Sylar]

I see the Rangers Fans' Fighting Fund have elected to pay the money (£22k) owed to Dunfermline for oustanding ticket monies.

Quite a nice gesture, ensuring that another club who are otherwise struggling somewhat without that money, haven't been shafted by Rangers.

[Moulin Yarns]

I see the Rangers Fans' Fighting Fund have elected to pay the money (£22k) owed to Dunfermline for oustanding ticket monies.

Quite a nice gesture, ensuring that another club who are otherwise struggling somewhat without that money, haven't been shafted by Rangers.

While refusing to give Dundee Utd the £100k they are owed. **** the lot of them.

[Sylar]

While refusing to give Dundee Utd the £100k they are owed. **** the lot of them.

I'd only heard the story second hand - didn't realise they'd refused to give anything to United, though, at the end of the day, it's not up to the Fans' Fighting Fund to pay these clubs, so the fact that they've elected to give that money to another club is admirable.

http://www1.skysports.com/football/news/11781/7633887/

[IWasThere2016]

I see the Rangers Fans' Fighting Fund have elected to pay the money (£22k) owed to Dunfermline for oustanding ticket monies.

Quite a nice gesture, ensuring that another club who are otherwise struggling somewhat without that money, haven't been shafted by Rangers.

Lovely people. Many are probably from Fife and the Pars are their secomd team.

[green glory]

Lovely people. Many are probably from Fife and the Pars are their secomd team.

I have difficulty with the concept of Huns who are lovely people.

[Newry Hibs]

Have accounts got to be signed off by the end of March in order to play in Europe? I can't remember. Does this also appy to HMFC as well? With only a day or two left there doesn't seem to be much news about either. Maybe RFC is forgone that it's not happening.

[JeMeSouviens]

Latest from Rangers' PR:

http://www.dailyrecord.co.uk/football/spl/rangers/2012/03/29/craig-whyte-tells-duff-and-phelps-he-would-rather-see-rangers-go-into-liquidation-than-sell-to-paul-murray-86908-23805466/

Definite hints that now the OF game is over they are starting the process of softening up the hordes for the inevitable. :greengrin

[WindyMiller]

Latest from Rangers' PR:

http://www.dailyrecord.co.uk/football/spl/rangers/2012/03/29/craig-whyte-tells-duff-and-phelps-he-would-rather-see-rangers-go-into-liquidation-than-sell-to-paul-murray-86908-23805466/

Definite hints that now the OF game is over they are starting the process of softening up the hordes for the inevitable. :greengrin

They're obviously only wanting to take the club for next to nothing.



But that too could prove difficult as Record Sport understands the Blue Knights’ cash offer was the second biggest – bettered only by a Chicago-based consortium which includes Club 9 Sports and parent company Prometheus.The only other serious contender at this stage is Edinburgh-born millionaire Brian Kennedy but his financial package falls short of the amount the Americans have pledged to plough into a CVA pot.


So the Yanks' offer is based on a CVA, the Blue Meanies lower and Kennedy has sent a 10/- postal order.

[CropleyWasGod]

Latest from Rangers' PR:

http://www.dailyrecord.co.uk/football/spl/rangers/2012/03/29/craig-whyte-tells-duff-and-phelps-he-would-rather-see-rangers-go-into-liquidation-than-sell-to-paul-murray-86908-23805466/

Definite hints that now the OF game is over they are starting the process of softening up the hordes for the inevitable. :greengrin

Loving the language in there, painting Murray as the saint, and "proven liar" Whyte as the big meanie.

Murray is shrugging his shoulders and sighing "oh well, I did my best", whilst preparing to pick up the club for a song when it goes pop.

[CropleyWasGod]

Have accounts got to be signed off by the end of March in order to play in Europe? I can't remember. Does this also appy to HMFC as well? With only a day or two left there doesn't seem to be much news about either. Maybe RFC is forgone that it's not happening.

The SFA require audited accounts, with no reference to going concern issues, by 31 March in order to issue clubs with a licence to play at all.

UEFA, though, require clubs to have the above, and no liability for "social taxes" as at (I think) the previous 31 December, in order to play in their competitions.

Technically, the SFA could chuck Rangers and Hearts out, but I doubt they will, given that its the first year of their licencing regime.

[RyeSloan]

The SFA require audited accounts, with no reference to going concern issues, by 31 March in order to issue clubs with a licence to play at all.

UEFA, though, require clubs to have the above, and no liability for "social taxes" as at (I think) the previous 31 December, in order to play in their competitions.

Technically, the SFA could chuck Rangers and Hearts out, but I doubt they will, given that its the first year of their licencing regime.

I think it's doubtful to near impossible for Hearts to meet that requirement.....where/when does the UEFA financial fair play rule scome into force as surely it's impossible for Hearts to meet that either.

Rangers are stuffed. No one has wanted to admit it and the Record et al are busy laying the balme at Whytes door but it's clear as day the majority of the problems existed before he got involved and that it the real reason no one else wanted to touch them, even for £1.

Seminal moments in Scottish Football and you have to ask just why the SPL and SFA were so complicit in letting it happen….this should be used as a catalyst not just to totally re-write the rules of competition but the rules of governance as well.

Sure the old guard will try and hang on where they can but if two of Scotlands biggest clubs go pop or fail to meet basic SFA and UEFA criteria you simply can’t just point the finger of blame at Whyte and Mad Vlad, that would be like blaming the whole US sub prime crisis purely on Fred…

[JeMeSouviens]

BBC Chris McLaughlin tweets that Brian Kennedy's bid is dead. Rejected by admins.

[CropleyWasGod]

I think it's doubtful to near impossible for Hearts to meet that requirement.....where/when does the UEFA financial fair play rule scome into force as surely it's impossible for Hearts to meet that either.

…

Effectively, they are in play now. They take effect from the 2012-13 season, so all the requirements have to be in place now-ish.

[grunt]

BBC Chris McLaughlin tweets that Brian Kennedy's bid is dead. Rejected by admins.Just an hour after he was reported in the BBC as complaining that D&P were taking too long in reviewing the bids!

[IWasThere2016]

I have difficulty with the concept of Huns who are lovely people.

I was not serious :wink:

[Hibs Class]

I'd only heard the story second hand - didn't realise they'd refused to give anything to United, though, at the end of the day, it's not up to the Fans' Fighting Fund to pay these clubs, so the fact that they've elected to give that money to another club is admirable.

http://www1.skysports.com/football/news/11781/7633887/

I'm sure Dunfermline will be glad if the money appears, but it feels like the FFF are spending £22k to make a point to DU. Hopefully it will strengthen DU's resolve to show no mercy if/when the opportunity arises.

[grunt]

Latest tweet from Alex Thomson

#c4news (https://twitter.com/#!/search/%23c4news) we aim to run a major investigation into Glasgow Rangers FC tomorrow night. Watch this space.

[Big Ed]

Seminal moments in Scottish Football and you have to ask just why the SPL and SFA were so complicit in letting it happen.

I think the reasons are:
1. Willful ignorance
2. Incompetence
3. Cowardice

[greenginger]

The SFA require audited accounts, with no reference to going concern issues, by 31 March in order to issue clubs with a licence to play at all.

UEFA, though, require clubs to have the above, and no liability for "social taxes" as at (I think) the previous 31 December, in order to play in their competitions.

Technically, the SFA could chuck Rangers and Hearts out, but I doubt they will, given that its the first year of their licencing regime.


No sign of Ross Counties Accounts due 31/03/ 2012 on Companies House Web Site. :pray:

If the Hearts Accounts are not lodged in Companies House by 31st March they will be 3 months late and that incurs a £ 3000 penalty which will be doubled because the were late last year too.

£ 6000 because they can't run a simple ledger. :confused:

[Andy74]

No sign of Ross Counties Accounts due 31/03/ 2012 on Companies House Web Site. :pray:

If the Hearts Accounts are not lodged in Companies House by 31st March they will be 3 months late and that incurs a £ 3000 penalty which will be doubled because the were late last year too.

£ 6000 because they can't run a simple ledger. :confused:

I think they can run the numbers, it's getting an auditor to sign them that will be the problem.

[Bristolhibby]

What's the significance of Ross Counties lack of accounts? How does it effect Hibs?

J


No sign of Ross Counties Accounts due 31/03/ 2012 on Companies House Web Site. :pray:

If the Hearts Accounts are not lodged in Companies House by 31st March they will be 3 months late and that incurs a £ 3000 penalty which will be doubled because the were late last year too.

£ 6000 because they can't run a simple ledger. :confused:

[CropleyWasGod]

I think the reasons are:
1. Willful ignorance
2. Incompetence
3. Cowardice

I'm going to play Devil's Advocate here.

1. The BTC, which (given its alleged double-contract issues) is at the heart of Rangers' demise, is still undecided.

2. The double-contracts have only be brought to the SFA's attention recently.

3. The overspending is not the SFA's concern, as long as RFC are still meeting their bills and football responsibilities. It's only recently that they haven't.

With all that in mind, it's difficult to see what the SFA/SPL could have done until now.

[JeMeSouviens]

What's the significance of Ross Counties lack of accounts? How does it effect Hibs?

J

They are top of Div1. They don't have 6000 seats yet either and they need to apply for special dispensation for that as well.

[Andy74]

They are top of Div1. They don't have 6000 seats yet either and they need to apply for special dispensation for that as well.

In the current set up would the second placed team not get the invite?

[StevieC]

In the current set up would the second placed team not get the invite?

That depends on the outcome of the "second contract" investigation. :wink:

[Big Ed]

I'm going to play Devil's Advocate here.

1. The BTC, which (given its alleged double-contract issues) is at the heart of Rangers' demise, is still undecided.

2. The double-contracts have only be brought to the SFA's attention recently.

3. The overspending is not the SFA's concern, as long as RFC are still meeting their bills and football responsibilities. It's only recently that they haven't.

With all that in mind, it's difficult to see what the SFA/SPL could have done until now.

If you have the time and inclination, this article outlines the broad gist of my feelings towards the SFA's conduct regarding the Rangers takeover: http://scotslawthoughts.wordpress.com/2012/03/21/responsibilities-of-the-scottish-football-association-and-other-myths-questions-for-mr-regan/

[Mikey]

BBC Chris McLaughlin tweets that Brian Kennedy's bid is dead. Rejected by admins.

Aye. We've banned the **** too :smug:

[greenginger]

I think they can run the numbers, it's getting an auditor to sign them that will be the problem.


Last years accounts were signed by the auditors and the Hearts Director on 31/3/2011 and they were not lodged at Companies House until 13th May doubling their penalty .:confused:

[jgl07]

In the current set up would the second placed team not get the invite?

That was not the case when Falkirk failed the ground requirements in 2002-3.

Motherwell escaped the drop despite finishing bottom.

I have a feeling that Aberdeen who finished bottom in 1999-2000 should have gone through a play-off with Falkirk (3rd in the SFL1). That was the year that the SPL was expanded from 10 to 12. They got off the hook because of Fakirk's stadium.

[JeMeSouviens]

In the current set up would the second placed team not get the invite?

Short answer, no.

Longer answer - SPL rules:


A2.3 In the event that the Candidate Club for any Season, if promoted from the SFL and admitted entry to the League, would, in the opinion of the Board in its absolute discretion, fail to fully comply with the Membership Criteria and no waiver, relaxation or period of grace is or has been granted to the Candidate Club in terms of Rule A2.7, then the Candidate Club shall not be promoted from the SFL and admitted entry to the League and the Club which would otherwise have been relegated from the League to the SFL in accordance with Rule A2.1, shall retain its place in the League.

[Jim44]

Has Ross County not applied to share ICT's ground next yea? I should imagine permission will be a formality.

[jgl07]

Has Ross County not applied to share ICT's ground next yea? I should imagine permission will be a formality.

They have the alterations under way but they will not be completed by the cut-off date but should certainly be ready for next season.

They have applied for a ground share as a back-up plan.

I don't see an issue with Ross County.

[Hibernia&Alba]

So that's Kennedy finished. Is he going to buy Hibs instead? :devil:


This talked about party in Singapore. Anyone have info regarding how serious they are?

[Keith_M]

Not sure if already posted but, Duff and Duffer are on course to cost Rangers up to 3,000,0000 quid (http://www.dailyrecord.co.uk/news/scottish-news/2012/03/28/revealed-rangers-administrators-run-up-3m-bill-and-still-no-sign-of-a-buyer-for-troubled-ibrox-club-86908-23804107/) in Administration Costs. The calculation is based on them being in Administration until July, which I doubt, but if so, it would wipe out totally any savings made by reducing the players wages.


Going by that calculation, they must have cost rangers a good million quid at least by now


Dontcha just LOVE these people :greengrin

[green glory]

SFA hearing adjourned till 17th, 18th and 19th of April at the behest of CW's lawyers. Procedural hearing set for the 6th which CW is expected to attend.

Also D+P seem to be getting panicky. CW won't sell his shares to the Blue Knight/Paul Murray consortium, and they've rejected Brian Kennedy's bid, apparently wanting a buyer in place by Wednesday. **** creek beckons.

[Andy74]

SFA hearing adjourned till 17th, 18th and 19th of April at the behest of CW's lawyers. Procedural hearing set for the 6th which CW is expected to attend.

Also D+P seem to be getting panicky. CW won't sell his shares to the Blue Knight/Paul Murray consortium, and they've rejected Brian Kennedy's bid, apparently wanting a buyer in place by Wednesday. **** creek beckons.

Any delay can only add to the uncertainty for bidders.

Brain Kennedy just likes to see his name written down. Maybe he could save the money to get those sunglasses surgically removed from his face.

[Part/Time Supporter]

So that's Kennedy finished. Is he going to buy Hibs instead? :devil:



The last time he showed an interest in Hibs was just after relegation.

:duck:

[Spike Mandela]

Whyte doesn't want to sell his shares to Murray....

http://www.dailyrecord.co.uk/football/spl/rangers/2012/03/29/craig-whyte-tells-duff-and-phelps-he-would-rather-see-rangers-go-into-liquidation-than-sell-to-paul-murray-86908-23805466/

[jgl07]

Whyte doesn't want to sell his shares to Murray....

http://www.dailyrecord.co.uk/football/spl/rangers/2012/03/29/craig-whyte-tells-duff-and-phelps-he-would-rather-see-rangers-go-into-liquidation-than-sell-to-paul-murray-86908-23805466/

You mean Whyte does not wish to give his shares to Murray.

[Keith_M]

Does anyone else remember THIS (http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport2/hi/football/teams/r/rangers/7173756.stm) story, Rangers planning to increase the size of Ibrox to 70,000, or some such fairy tale.


Just three years later and Rangers are almost down the pan. At the time that he was making these b*ll*x claims, he must have known Rangers were already in trouble, yet the media just all lapped it up, as per usual.

[Golden Bear]

Even the Administrators are at it now!




http://sport.stv.tv/football/scottish-premier/dundee-united/301970-dundee-united-report-rangers-to-spl-over-unpaid-ticket-money/

[Hibernia&Alba]

Does anyone else remember THIS (http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport2/hi/football/teams/r/rangers/7173756.stm) story, Rangers planning to increase the size of Ibrox to 70,000, or some such fairy tale.


Just three years later and Rangers are almost down the pan. At the time that he was making these b*ll*x claims, he must have known Rangers were already in trouble, yet the media just all lapped it up, as per usual.


Aye, David Murray had the media in the palm of his hand. I remember that: massive new Ibrox, casinos, hotels etc. Yet at the same time they were fiddling their taxes. The laptop loyal swallowed it as per.

[ancienthibby]

You mean Whyte does not wish to give his shares to Murray.

It's quite amazing what a few weeks can bring!

Now we seem to have the principal player, one Craikie NotsoWhyte, at loggerheads with the team he chose to appoint, Duff and Duffer.:agree:

At 'the Big Hoose' the foundations are crumbling!:wink:

Bring it on!:thumbsup:

[Hibernia&Alba]

It's quite amazing what a few weeks can bring!

Now we seem to have the principal player, one Craikie NotsoWhyte, at loggerheads with the team he chose to appoint, Duff and Duffer.:agree:

At 'the Big Hoose' the foundations are crumbling!:wink:

Bring it on!:thumbsup:

One feels duty bound to express ones approval of this insight :agree:

[IWasThere2016]

It's quite amazing what a few weeks can bring!

Now we seem to have the principal player, one Craikie NotsoWhyte, at loggerheads with the team he chose to appoint, Duff and Duffer.:agree:

At 'the Big Hoose' the foundations are crumbling!:wink:

Bring it on!:thumbsup:

Isn't this just magic .. The win in the BigotFest on Sunday is the last thing they'll celebrate hopefully.

OF GTF!

[CallumLaidlaw]

They have the alterations under way but they will not be completed by the cut-off date but should certainly be ready for next season.

They have applied for a ground share as a back-up plan.

I don't see an issue with Ross County.

Just tweeted by a journo an hour ago -
the SPL have approved Ross County's application to groundshare with Inverness next season

[James70]

Whyte doesn't want to sell his shares to Murray....

http://www.dailyrecord.co.uk/football/spl/rangers/2012/03/29/craig-whyte-tells-duff-and-phelps-he-would-rather-see-rangers-go-into-liquidation-than-sell-to-paul-murray-86908-23805466/


Don't worry, it'll be all Whyte on the Knight! :greengrin

[Onion]

Even the Administrators are at it now!




http://sport.stv.tv/football/scottish-premier/dundee-united/301970-dundee-united-report-rangers-to-spl-over-unpaid-ticket-money/

Totally Hunbelievable :green grin At this rate, teams will stop playing he Huns long before they go into liquidation.

You just can trust the Hun:greengrin

[greenginger]

Just tweeted by a journo an hour ago -
the SPL have approved Ross County's application to groundshare with Inverness next season


Thats one " get out of jail card " we can't play.

[IWasThere2016]

Thats one " get out of jail card " we can't play.

Ross Co. plan to build and be ready for 1 July. The ICT groundshare is just a contingency.

[PaulSmith]

On the charges brought by the SFA against Rangers:

Paul Clark, of administrators Duff and Phelps, said: "The club's legal representatives were ready to make the club's case which in essence is that there are extenuating and unprecedented circumstances in this case and we hope to demonstrate the distinction between the actions of the club and the actions of individuals.

If the SFA agree to this and see it as actions of an individual they might as well rip up the rule book?

[Eyrie]

The SFA have already stated that they have neither the resources nor the time to vet every appointment at every member club, and they have over 100 clubs as members. They rely on each club to do its own checks and then vouch for the appointment, which is why the Huns can't simply claim Whyte misled them.

[Springbank]

The SFA have already stated that they have neither the resources nor the time to vet every appointment at every member club, and they have over 100 clubs as members. They rely on each club to do its own checks and then vouch for the appointment, which is why the Huns can't simply claim Whyte misled them.
I'm still astonished that Duff and Duffer (as supposedly serious admins) came out with the phrase "Craig Whyte is irrelevant to Rangers future", he being the owner and majority shareholder of the football club, and the guy who paid to inherit (and then further scam) the broken and bankrupt company that David Murray had already taken to its knees, via HMRC.

Will Duff and Duffer find work again?

[grunt]

On the charges brought by the SFA against Rangers:

Paul Clark, of administrators Duff and Phelps, said: "The club's legal representatives were ready to make the club's case which in essence is that there are extenuating and unprecedented circumstances in this case and we hope to demonstrate the distinction between the actions of the club and the actions of individuals.

If the SFA agree to this and see it as actions of an individual they might as well rip up the rule book?Does anyone else here think this is a rather weak excuse?

[lapsedhibee]

Latest tweet from Alex Thomson

#c4news (https://twitter.com/#!/search/%23c4news) we aim to run a major investigation into Glasgow Rangers FC tomorrow night. Watch this space.

Excellent news. If this goes wholly aright, it should mean the end of Young, Traynor, Dodds, etc, and their execrable output.

[green glory]

Excellent news. If this goes wholly aright, it should mean the end of Young, Traynor, Dodds, etc, and their execrable output.

Is there any confirmation yet who threatened Alex Thomson? Was it fat JT?

[Sylar]

Excellent news. If this goes wholly aright, it should mean the end of Young, Traynor, Dodds, etc, and their execrable output.

http://www.channel4.com/news/we-run-football-were-not-the-police-sfa-boss

Alex Thompson just comes across as an utter **** in this interview.

I'm all for hard questions being asked of how this entire situation has/has been allowed to unfold, but his approach is pretty poor here.

[grunt]

Is there any confirmation yet who threatened Alex Thomson? Was it fat JT?

He's getting a fair number of threats and abuse on Twitter

[Spike Mandela]

http://www.channel4.com/news/we-run-football-were-not-the-police-sfa-boss

Alex Thompson just comes across as an utter **** in this interview.

I'm all for hard questions being asked of how this entire situation has/has been allowed to unfold, but his approach is pretty poor here.

No he doesn't. It's about time some of the authority figures in the game faced some rigourous questioning from serious interviewers rather than the amateurish attempts by the poodles in the Scottish media.

For the record I think Regan gave a good account of himself but when have you ever heard any sports journalist ask probing questions like this to an official?

[Hibernia&Alba]

Is there any confirmation yet who threatened Alex Thomson? Was it fat JT?


Good question. Surely no wee Chico?


Keep in there, Alex, This is Watergate 2012.

[WindyMiller]

One for the geeks, if anyone's interested;


http://www.rangers.co.uk/staticFiles/4d/76/0,,5~161357,00.pdf

[PatHead]

CWG or another clever accountant chappie

Someone was telling me the new "Pheonix" company rules re new company taking on debt of previous regime come into effect on 6 April.


Is this true and if so would it suit Craig Whyte to take Rangers into liquidation before 6 April as Rangers 2012 would not inherit the debt?

[JeMeSouviens]

Does anyone else here think this is a rather weak excuse?

:agree:

"A bulging eyed big boy did it and ran away" is about the size of it.

[stokesmessiah]

CWG or another clever accountant chappie

Someone was telling me the new "Pheonix" company rules re new company taking on debt of previous regime come into effect on 6 April.


Is this true and if so would it suit Craig Whyte to take Rangers into liquidation before 6 April as Rangers 2012 would not inherit the debt?

I am by no means an accountant chappie but i suspect they would only be applicable for debts accrued after that date?

[greenginger]

I am by no means an accountant chappie but i suspect they would only be applicable for debts accrued after that date?


Like the BIG tax case ! I was wondering about the delay in announcing any decision. :aok:

[stokesmessiah]

Like the BIG tax case ! I was wondering about the delay in announcing any decision. :aok:

This was all accrued prior to that date though so i dont think it would be applicable.

[jonty]

Lorenzo Amoruso fears loss of Rangers SPL titles
http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/football/17556572

Never going to happen - although it should.

"Nobody will take that away from us and the fans. We won on the pitch, not because of the money. We were better than the other teams, that's it.
You just don't get it Lorenzo. Some of those players shouldnt have been on the pitch in the first place.

[CropleyWasGod]

No he doesn't. It's about time some of the authority figures in the game faced some rigourous questioning from serious interviewers rather than the amateurish attempts by the poodles in the Scottish media.

For the record I think Regan gave a good account of himself but when have you ever heard any sports journalist ask probing questions like this to an official?

I agree with you.

A lot of the questioning was set by Captain Hindsight... as is much of our discussion on here. Regan's an easy target, but I think he has done as much as he could under the present set-up. He also seems open to learning from what has happened.

What is refreshing is that we have a non-Scottish based journalist asking questions of someone who is a non-Scot. Important questions were asked, and honest answers given.

[CropleyWasGod]

CWG or another clever accountant chappie

Someone was telling me the new "Pheonix" company rules re new company taking on debt of previous regime come into effect on 6 April.


Is this true and if so would it suit Craig Whyte to take Rangers into liquidation before 6 April as Rangers 2012 would not inherit the debt?

I'm afraid I have to take the Scott Brown stance on that. I dunno.

[CropleyWasGod]

Good question. Surely no wee Chico?


.

I'm not normally one for shouting at the radio, but this from Chico last night:-

"if Rangers go into liquidation, HMRC won't get a penny."

:grr::fuming::rules::brickwall:take that:giruy::timebomb::slipper::crazy:... and any other appropriate smilies.

[green glory]

Interesting stuff. Stewart Regan apparently walked out of a meeting with RFC fans groups yesterday. Can just imagine the sh@te they were spouting at him.

[down-the-slope]

The first is 'may' the second is 'shall'

Yes but the 'shall' is after and dependant on the 'may'

[AndyM_1875]

I'm not normally one for shouting at the radio, but this from Chico last night:-

"if Rangers go into liquidation, HMRC won't get a penny."

:grr::fuming::rules::brickwall:take that:giruy::timebomb::slipper::crazy:... and any other appropriate smilies.


To be fair, he may be right. An accountant chap I know said to me that it is not in HMRC's interest to get Rangers wound up. There is a guaranteed revenue stream there in the years ahead from fat huns in horrible replica strips buying season tickets and mainly pies so pushing for liquidation is just plain daft.

Wouldn't put too much faith in the BTC either. It's not as simple as it may appear and is made up of many parts. Some bits Rangers will undoubtly be found guilty of, others are open to much more doubt. Worth remembering too what happened with Arsenal's EBT scheme.

HMRC - You owe us 300m in back taxes and fines for using EBTs Arsenal.
Arsenal -No we don't.
HMRC - Yes you do. We worked it out.
Arsenal - Look here's 10m, now go away and bugger off and never bother us again about this.
HMRC - OK, give us the 10.

[jgl07]

The Herald reported today that the American consortium Club 9 were the preferred bidder for Rangers with an offer of £25 million.

They intend to liquidate the club and form a Newco and either apply for the SPL or for to the SFL Division 3.

http://www.heraldscotland.com/news/home-news/us-firm-in-25m-bid-for-rangers.17178029

Only the Blue Knights seem to be working on the assumption that a CVA will be possible. Their bid seems to be on the point of collapse anyway.

[Newry Hibs]

To be fair, he may be right. An accountant chap I know said to me that it is not in HMRC's interest to get Rangers wound up. There is a guaranteed revenue stream there in the years ahead from fat huns in horrible replica strips buying season tickets and mainly pies so pushing for liquidation is just plain daft.

Wouldn't put too much faith in the BTC either. It's not as simple as it may appear and is made up of many parts. Some bits Rangers will undoubtly be found guilty of, others are open to much more doubt. Worth remembering too what happened with Arsenal's EBT scheme.

HMRC - You owe us 300m in back taxes and fines for using EBTs Arsenal.
Arsenal -No we don't.
HMRC - Yes you do. We worked it out.
Arsenal - Look here's 10m, now go away and bugger off and never bother us again about this.
HMRC - OK, give us the 10.

But won't these fans still spend money on other football teams? Be it Partick Thistle or whatever blue slime emerges from liquidation.

[Famous5forever]

The Herald reported today that the American consortium Club 9 were the preferred bidder for Rangers with an offer of £25 million.

They intend to liquidate the club and form a Newco and either apply for the SPL or for to the SFL Division 3.

http://www.heraldscotland.com/news/home-news/us-firm-in-25m-bid-for-rangers.17178029

Only the Blue Knights seem to be working on the assumption that a CVA will be possible. Their bid seems to be on the point of collapse anyway.


I Feel there end game was always Liquidation wipe out all debts and start again SPL Will welcome them back in of course with a red carpet and a brass band.

[jgl07]

I Feel there end game was always Liquidation wipe out all debts and start again SPL Will welcome them back in of course with a red carpet and a brass band.

In the 2015-20016 season!

[CropleyWasGod]

To be fair, he may be right. An accountant chap I know said to me that it is not in HMRC's interest to get Rangers wound up. There is a guaranteed revenue stream there in the years ahead from fat huns in horrible replica strips buying season tickets and mainly pies so pushing for liquidation is just plain daft.

Wouldn't put too much faith in the BTC either. It's not as simple as it may appear and is made up of many parts. Some bits Rangers will undoubtly be found guilty of, others are open to much more doubt. Worth remembering too what happened with Arsenal's EBT scheme.

HMRC - You owe us 300m in back taxes and fines for using EBTs Arsenal.
Arsenal -No we don't.
HMRC - Yes you do. We worked it out.
Arsenal - Look here's 10m, now go away and bugger off and never bother us again about this.
HMRC - OK, give us the 10.

He's not right, though. If RFC are wound up, the assets will be sold off, and HMRC will get some (possibly most) of the proceeds. Not "not a penny".

As for the future, we all know that there will be an RFC. There will be an income stream for the Treasury.

Sorry, but Young is just plain wrong, and I'm not going to get my financial information from the likes of him.

Edit.. I wasn't aware of Arsenal's experience. Do you have a link for that?

[CropleyWasGod]

The Herald reported today that the American consortium Club 9 were the preferred bidder for Rangers with an offer of £25 million.

They intend to liquidate the club and form a Newco and either apply for the SPL or for to the SFL Division 3.

http://www.heraldscotland.com/news/home-news/us-firm-in-25m-bid-for-rangers.17178029

Only the Blue Knights seem to be working on the assumption that a CVA will be possible. Their bid seems to be on the point of collapse anyway.

Finally... someone out there who sees sense. :agree:

[Lucius Apuleius]

The bit I like best :greengrin

Club 9 Sports made attempts to buy Tranmere Rovers and take a controlling interest in Sheffield Wednesday but both moves were unsuccessful.

The bids appeared to fail because in both cases the business plan involved short-term restructuring, and drawing consultancy fees, with a view to selling the clubs on.

[Hibee87]

I am usre this has already been asnwered but ill ask any way:

Rangers are almost certian to be liquidated.

Although the SFA would like them the newco to come straight back into the league I simply dont see the other teams agreeing to this - i would guess the 11-1 voting system would be what is used for this? and I would guess at least 3 -4 clubs would tell them to bolt (hibs, hearts, dundee utd, dunfermline *on the assumption they may be relegated) plus maybe more inverness (sure they have said this already), killi, aberdeen. therefore the SFA CANT let them in no matter how much they want it right? this also leaves open the fact none of us will get relegated and newco will have to re apply to the SFL which im sure would happen and they are left in the wilderness for a few years at least.

basically my question is do the 'experts' on here agree that this is the likely outcome or have i missed 137 pages of the same thing?

[CropleyWasGod]

The bit I like best :greengrin

Club 9 Sports made attempts to buy Tranmere Rovers and take a controlling interest in Sheffield Wednesday but both moves were unsuccessful.

The bids appeared to fail because in both cases the business plan involved short-term restructuring, and drawing consultancy fees, with a view to selling the clubs on.

Oh... Page 3 of the Craig Whyte Manual of Football Management.... I like, too.

[Seveno]

One for the geeks, if anyone's interested;


http://www.rangers.co.uk/staticFiles/4d/76/0,,5~161357,00.pdf

I see that one of Craigie's businesses involves ticketing.

I smell a small furry rodent.

[CropleyWasGod]

I am usre this has already been asnwered but ill ask any way:

Rangers are almost certian to be liquidated.

Although the SFA would like them the newco to come straight back into the league I simply dont see the other teams agreeing to this - i would guess the 11-1 voting system would be what is used for this? and I would guess at least 3 -4 clubs would tell them to bolt (hibs, hearts, dundee utd, dunfermline *on the assumption they may be relegated) plus maybe more inverness (sure they have said this already), killi, aberdeen. therefore the SFA CANT let them in no matter how much they want it right? this also leaves open the fact none of us will get relegated and newco will have to re apply to the SFL which im sure would happen and they are left in the wilderness for a few years at least.

basically my question is do the 'experts' on here agree that this is the likely outcome or have i missed 137 pages of the same thing?

"Experts".... :greengrin

The fact that we are now up to 137 pages of argument and speculation tells you all you need to know. As the saying goes, you could lie 1m economists down in a line, and they still wouldn't reach a conclusion.

[CropleyWasGod]

I see that one of Craigie's businesses involves ticketing.

I smell a small furry rodent.

This bit caught my eye:-

a breach of any of the undertakings given by The Rangers FC Group in the Agreement will
result in the debt acquired being automatically extinguished. The terms on which the debt
would be extinguished are to be agreed by the parties at the relevant time.

Given that just about all of the undertakings have been breached, I am curious as to how the debt would be extinguished.

[Spike Mandela]

I am usre this has already been asnwered but ill ask any way:

Rangers are almost certian to be liquidated.

Although the SFA would like them the newco to come straight back into the league I simply dont see the other teams agreeing to this - i would guess the 11-1 voting system would be what is used for this? and I would guess at least 3 -4 clubs would tell them to bolt (hibs, hearts, dundee utd, dunfermline *on the assumption they may be relegated) plus maybe more inverness (sure they have said this already), killi, aberdeen. therefore the SFA CANT let them in no matter how much they want it right? this also leaves open the fact none of us will get relegated and newco will have to re apply to the SFL which im sure would happen and they are left in the wilderness for a few years at least.

basically my question is do the 'experts' on here agree that this is the likely outcome or have i missed 137 pages of the same thing?

Imo the voting system will be changed in this scenario in exchange for Rangers re-entry to the SPL. Quite simply if the OF play hard ball on this then Rangers don't get entry to SPL for 3 years and the other clubs have their chance to change the voting system anyway as It will be 11 votes to Celtic's one.

[Seveno]

http://www.channel4.com/news/we-run-football-were-not-the-police-sfa-boss

Alex Thompson just comes across as an utter **** in this interview.

I'm all for hard questions being asked of how this entire situation has/has been allowed to unfold, but his approach is pretty poor here.

I think that Reagan comes over very well. Disappointing that Thomson keeps flogging the dead horse of the due diligence on Whyte issue. The SFA stance has always been quite clear on this and totally correct in my opinion.

[CropleyWasGod]

I think that Reagan comes over very well. Disappointing that Thomson keeps flogging the dead horse of the due diligence on Whyte issue. The SFA stance ad always been quite clear on this and totally correct in my opinion.

Agreed. Also like Regan's point about changing the procedure in the future, in light of all this.

[Seveno]

This bit caught my eye:-

a breach of any of the undertakings given by The Rangers FC Group in the Agreement will
result in the debt acquired being automatically extinguished. The terms on which the debt
would be extinguished are to be agreed by the parties at the relevant time.

Given that just about all of the undertakings have been breached, I am curious as to how the debt would be extinguished.

FFS I have already told you about your need to study Yamanomics !

[CropleyWasGod]

FFS I have already told you about your need to study Yamanomics !

Yeah yeah.... :greengrin.

I suppose I am curious as to how the hell they will actually get round a table and agree. :confused:

[Keith_M]

"Experts".... :greengrin
.................... As the saying goes, you could lie 1m economists down in a line, and run over them with a steam roller, and we'd all be happy


Fixed that for you :wink:

[CropleyWasGod]

Fixed that for you :wink:

Excellent! Cheered up my afternoon....:aok:

[AndyM_1875]

He's not right, though. If RFC are wound up, the assets will be sold off, and HMRC will get some (possibly most) of the proceeds. Not "not a penny".

As for the future, we all know that there will be an RFC. There will be an income stream for the Treasury.

Sorry, but Young is just plain wrong, and I'm not going to get my financial information from the likes of him.

Edit.. I wasn't aware of Arsenal's experience. Do you have a link for that?

Oh agreed - El Chico is a balloon.

But let's look at the Assets first.
Ibrox - A football stadium in a dreadful part of Glasgow that unfortunately due to the Big Hoose being a listed building cannot be used for anything else. The write down account book value is about 65m. But that figure is laughable. A newco would either rent Ibrox from HMRC who may push for a sale and then get a very low offer price thrown at them. If HMRC refuse to play ball with RFC2012, they'll probably look to rent Hampden instead.

Murray Park - Green belt land. Can't be used for development. Worth little to anyone apart from Rangers.

Players - on liquidation their contracts revert to the league.

Here is some stuff on Arsenal.
http://www.guardian.co.uk/football/2005/sep/09/newsstory.sport9
http://2ndyellow.com/2012/glasgow-rangers-tax-ebt-premier-league

A good mate of mine is a big Arsenal fan. He said this was all dealt with quietly and behind the scenes. Arsenal paid off to the tune of about 10m. Their demand was much bigger than Rangers one.

HMRC's end goal on the BTC may not actually be getting the cash from Rangers, they know they'll never get it from Rangers as they are rooked. Rather they want precedent - the ruling. As this will allow them to chase much bigger fish in the Premiership with Liverpool and Newcastle both rumoured to be targets, plus another six clubs - all of whom may have allegedly (mis)used EBT schemes.

Worth remembering as well that HMRC's record with football clubs rivals our home form this season.

[CropleyWasGod]

Oh agreed - El Chico is a balloon.

But let's look at the Assets first.
Ibrox - A football stadium in a dreadful part of Glasgow that unfortunately due to the Big Hoose being a listed building cannot be used for anything else. The write down account book value is about 65m. But that figure is laughable. A newco would either rent Ibrox from HMRC who may push for a sale and then get a very low offer price thrown at them. If HMRC refuse to play ball with RFC2012, they'll probably look to rent Hampden instead.

Murray Park - Green belt land. Can't be used for development. Worth little to anyone apart from Rangers.

Players - on liquidation their contracts revert to the league.

Here is some stuff on Arsenal.
http://www.guardian.co.uk/football/2005/sep/09/newsstory.sport9
http://2ndyellow.com/2012/glasgow-rangers-tax-ebt-premier-league

A good mate of mine is a big Arsenal fan. He said this was all dealt with quietly and behind the scenes. Arsenal paid off to the tune of about 10m. Their demand was much bigger than Rangers one.

HMRC's end goal on the BTC may not actually be getting the cash from Rangers, they know they'll never get it from Rangers as they are rooked. Rather they want precedent - the ruling. As this will allow them to chase much bigger fish in the Premiership with Liverpool and Newcastle both rumoured to be targets, plus another six clubs - all of whom have allegedly (mis)used EBT schemes.

Worth remembering as well that HMRC's record with football clubs rivals our home form this season.

I agree that the marketability of RFC's assets is low. However, they do have a value.... particularly to someone who wants to pick up the club from liquidation and start again, which has always been my "preferred option", for this lot and HMFC.

I agree about HMRC wanting the decision, rather than the cash... although, of course, they would prefer both.

I am not so sure, though, about their willingness to negotiate. I haven't read through the Arsenal stuff yet, but I am presuming that was in the "Vodafone days". They are under pressure not to do such deals now. Indeed, they CAN'T negotiate on the amount of tax due, only the amount of the penalties.

[RyeSloan]

Oh agreed - El Chico is a balloon.

But let's look at the Assets first.
Ibrox - A football stadium in a dreadful part of Glasgow that unfortunately due to the Big Hoose being a listed building cannot be used for anything else. The write down account book value is about 65m. But that figure is laughable. A newco would either rent Ibrox from HMRC who may push for a sale and then get a very low offer price thrown at them. If HMRC refuse to play ball with RFC2012, they'll probably look to rent Hampden instead.

Murray Park - Green belt land. Can't be used for development. Worth little to anyone apart from Rangers.

Players - on liquidation their contracts revert to the league.

Here is some stuff on Arsenal.
http://www.guardian.co.uk/football/2005/sep/09/newsstory.sport9
http://2ndyellow.com/2012/glasgow-rangers-tax-ebt-premier-league



I assume listed buildings can have a change of use and can be developed with the correct approval...I would wager that it's incorrect to say that because it is listed nothing can happen to it and as long as the development is 'sympathetic' and has no 'adverse effects' on the character of the building then a development would be more than possible. Arsenals development of Highbury is probably a good example here.

Also what part of Ibrox is listed...probably the main stand frontage, I very much doubt any of the rest of the stands are listed so the listed part of the site will only make up a small percentage of the land.

Also Murray Park may well be on greenbelt land but again I would suggest that as their is already a development on the site in question that there will be a number of avenues that will allow a change of use/redevelopment.

[Seveno]

Oh agreed - El Chico is a balloon.

But let's look at the Assets first.
Ibrox - A football stadium in a dreadful part of Glasgow that unfortunately due to the Big Hoose being a listed building cannot be used for anything else. The write down account book value is about 65m. But that figure is laughable. A newco would either rent Ibrox from HMRC who may push for a sale and then get a very low offer price thrown at them. If HMRC refuse to play ball with RFC2012, they'll probably look to rent Hampden instead.

Murray Park - Green belt land. Can't be used for development. Worth little to anyone apart from Rangers.

Players - on liquidation their contracts revert to the league.

Here is some stuff on Arsenal.
http://www.guardian.co.uk/football/2005/sep/09/newsstory.sport9
http://2ndyellow.com/2012/glasgow-rangers-tax-ebt-premier-league

A good mate of mine is a big Arsenal fan. He said this was all dealt with quietly and behind the scenes. Arsenal paid off to the tune of about 10m. Their demand was much bigger than Rangers one.

HMRC's end goal on the BTC may not actually be getting the cash from Rangers, they know they'll never get it from Rangers as they are rooked. Rather they want precedent - the ruling. As this will allow them to chase much bigger fish in the Premiership with Liverpool and Newcastle both rumoured to be targets, plus another six clubs - all of whom may have allegedly (mis)used EBT schemes.

Worth remembering as well that HMRC's record with football clubs rivals our home form this season.

It will only be part of the main stand that is listed i.e the exterior, entrance and offices etc. That still leaves plenty room for a supermarket, with the grandest entrance in the whole Tesco estate !

There was talk about swapping Murray Park with West of Scotland and building houses on the latter. Where did that one go ?

[CropleyWasGod]

It will only be part of the main stand that is listed i.e the exterior, entrance and offices etc. That still leaves plenty room for a supermarket, with the grandest entrance in the whole Tesco estate !

There was talk about swapping Murray Park with West of Scotland and building houses on the latter. Where did that one go ?

I beg to differ. The stands have the potential to be World Heritage Sites. In years to come, school-parties and busloads of Japanese tourists will be shown around the desolate slopes, being regaled by horrific tales of obscenity, religious intolerance and ritual pape-****ging. They may, in passing, glance at the bit where men used to kick a football around.

[green glory]

I assume listed buildings can have a change of use and can be developed with the correct approval...I would wager that it's incorrect to say that because it is listed nothing can happen to it and as long as the development is 'sympathetic' and has no 'adverse effects' on the character of the building then a development would be more than possible. Arsenals development of Highbury is probably a good example here.

Also what part of Ibrox is listed...probably the main stand frontage, I very much doubt any of the rest of the stands are listed so the listed part of the site will only make up a small percentage of the land.

Also Murray Park may well be on greenbelt land but again I would suggest that as their is already a development on the site in question that there will be a number of avenues that will allow a change of use/redevelopment.

I would reckon only the Archibald Leitch designed main stand will be listed, and then only the facade as the interior of the stand has had alterations/new roof etc when the third tier was added in the 90's. It was actually my mate's dad's company who roofed it. Funnily enough he did the first two new stands at the PBS too.

The other 3 stands we're build in 79 I think. They have a kind of Cumbernauld chic, so couldn't be listed in this or any other sane world.

The Leitch facade could be incorporated into some future development. Makes a grand tombstone though.

[CropleyWasGod]

I would reckon only the Archibald Leitch designed main stand will be listed, and then only the facade as the interior of the stand has had alterations/new roof etc when the third tier was added in the 90's. It was actually my mate's dad's company who roofed it. Funnily enough he did the first two new stands at the PBS too.

The other 3 stands we're build in 79 I think. They have a kind of Cumbernauld chic, so couldn't be listed in this or any other sane world.

The Leitch facade could be incorporated into some future development. Makes a grand tombstone though.

Maybe it could be moved to one end of the M8. At the other would be its sister from Tynie.

Monuments to Scottish enterprise. :cb

[AndyM_1875]

It will only be part of the main stand that is listed i.e the exterior, entrance and offices etc. That still leaves plenty room for a supermarket, with the grandest entrance in the whole Tesco estate !

There was talk about swapping Murray Park with West of Scotland and building houses on the latter. Where did that one go ?

Heh!

This is Highbury now.
http://www.highburysquare.com/

Somehow I can't see Ibrox ending up like this. Not too much call for smashed Buckie bottles and pishing in gutters up at Highbury Square.

[green glory]

Remembering all the bigoted goons outside the big house on administration day. Will probably take the day off work for liquidation day. Crack open that bottle of single malt.

I hope I s*it my trousers laughing.

[Seveno]

I beg to differ. The stands have the potential to be World Heritage Sites. In years to come, school-parties and busloads of Japanese tourists will be shown around the desolate slopes, being regaled by horrific tales of obscenity, religious intolerance and ritual pape-****ging. They may, in passing, glance at the bit where men used to kick a football around.

Good thinking. And the grassy bit will be called 'Ivan's land'. The kids will be told, and might even get to see a video, of a wee man in green tearing eleven dumplings in blue totally apart.

[CropleyWasGod]

Good thinking. And the grassy bit will be called 'Ivan's land'. The kids will be told, and might even get to see a video, of a wee man in green tearing eleven dumplings in blue totally apart.

... and there will be re-enactments of that famous exchange between Mowbray and Gaz, with the legendary words of the latter "what the f's he gonnae dae, like?" on a permanent loop.

[hibs0666]

Heh!

This is Highbury now.
http://www.highburysquare.com/

Somehow I can't see Ibrox ending up like this. Not too much call for smashed Buckie bottles and pishing in gutters up at Highbury Square.

A mate of mine lived next door to the away entrance, and he made a small fortune when Arsenal moved out.

[JeMeSouviens]

http://www.heraldscotland.com/news/home-news/us-firm-in-25m-bid-for-rangers.17178029

Seemingly the Blue Knights bid is around £10M and depends on a CVA.

Club9's bid is £25M to buy the assets of the company following a liquidation.

A no brainer you'd think, except that the BK bid involves Ticketus, so presumably a big chunk of C9's £25M would go to them. For the other creditors the bids aren't miles apart.

My feeling is that for HMRC, a CVA says, "go ahead, cheat your taxes, we'll come to an arrangement later" whereas liquidation gives them a prominent head on a stick. Either way, the ££££s on offer are comparable so they're much more likely to go for the latter.

The "L" word is very much out in the open now. :wink:

NewHuns are coming, so it'll soon be time for us all to make a stand against them getting into the SPL. If you haven't lobbied Hibs on the subject yet, I would suggest a wee email might be in order. :agree:

[jgl07]

It appears that the end game is approaching and the only real option is liquidation.

Time is certainly not on Rangers' side. They have negotiated temporary wage reductions for the staff but this will expire at the end of the season.

Will the likes of Whittakar and Davies be able to claim breach of contract and effectively become free agents. If Rangers try and transfer them they could sit tight and refuse a move knowing that Rangers cannot afford to keep paying them. This could mean that they will be freed and will be able to get better terms as a free agent. I cannot see how Duff and Phelps could even think about selling season tickets for next year so there will be no real revenue stream after the end of the season.

They current have a home match against St Mirren and possible post split home matches against Motherwell and Dundee United. None of these appear to be money-spinners especially once Celtic are confirmed as champions.

So Rangers playing 'assets' will become a major liability at the end of the season and are not likely to be retained or to generate much transfer income. Why pay a transfer fee for a Rangers player when you can wait a few weeks and pick them up as a free agent?

Liquidating the club would resolve the issue of HMRC including the £15 million currently due and the cash probably due from the BTC and the WTC. Liquidation would also deal with Ticketus once and for all. It would deal with every other sundry creditor such as HoMFC and Dundee United. It would presumably deal with Craig Whyte unless he can substantiate his claim to be a secured creditor and take Ibrox and Murray Park.

The SPL10 would be advised to keep any Rangers Newco out the SPL so that they can force through the changes in voting pattern. This would have the added bonus of p*ssing of Celtic as well.

Get the Rangers Newco set up now and start working on a business plan for the next three years in the SFL. Then get the application for membership of Division Three prepared. The SFL clubs would love the income that two home match against Rangers for virtually all of them over the next three season.

[CropleyWasGod]

http://www.heraldscotland.com/news/home-news/us-firm-in-25m-bid-for-rangers.17178029

Seemingly the Blue Knights bid is around £10M and depends on a CVA.

Club9's bid is £25M to buy the assets of the company following a liquidation.

A no brainer you'd think, except that the BK bid involves Ticketus, so presumably a big chunk of C9's £25M would go to them. For the other creditors the bids aren't miles apart.

My feeling is that for HMRC, a CVA says, "go ahead, cheat your taxes, we'll come to an arrangement later" whereas liquidation gives them a prominent head on a stick. Either way, the ££££s on offer are comparable so they're much more likely to go for the latter.

The "L" word is very much out in the open now. :wink:

NewHuns are coming, so it'll soon be time for us all to make a stand against them getting into the SPL. If you haven't lobbied Hibs on the subject yet, I would suggest a wee email might be in order. :agree:

Basically, then, they are buying the properties, and the name, for £25m. Do they know they won't get the players? (if not, dinny anybody tell them.)

I think that's a good deal all round. The buyers get a decent set of assets. Ticketus get a slice. HMRC do, too, and get their sacrifice, as you say. There also will be a future business for them to leech off :greengrin. The fans (like I care about them) get a fresh new, debt-free, club. And us?.... that depends, of course, on the stand, as you put it.

I'm happy with all that.. maybe Hibs.net should send the admins a bill for our sterling advisory work.

Edit... forgot one other thing. Hearts get shafted too!!

[Seveno]

Basically, then, they are buying the properties, and the name, for £25m. Do they know they won't get the players? (if not, dinny anybody tell them.)

I think that's a good deal all round. The buyers get a decent set of assets. Ticketus get a slice. HMRC do, too, and get their sacrifice, as you say. There also will be a future business for them to leech off :greengrin. The fans (like I care about them) get a fresh new, debt-free, club. And us?.... that depends, of course, on the stand, as you put it.

I'm happy with all that.. maybe Hibs.net should send the admins a bill for our sterling advisory work.

You forgot ...... Duff and Duffer get a whacking great fee for doing f*** all.

[CropleyWasGod]

You forgot ...... Duff and Duffer get a whacking great fee for doing f*** all.

Wait until they get MY bill. :greengrin

[down-the-slope]

remember in assets the most valuable one is ironically the car park - its massive (maybe as big as stadium foot print) flat and no real planning issues, with great road links to M8 / M77 & now M74 extention pretty much a stones throw away.....

An asset stripper could flog this and then clean things up still leaving the stadium & training facility (and no long term duffer player contracts) to then sell on to 'blue nose 2012' for football purposes...making a healthy wedge in he process and caring little about reduced annual income / asset reduction....

[Seveno]

remember in assets the most valuable one is ironically the car park - its massive (maybe as big as stadium foot print) flat and no real planning issues, with great road links to M8 / M77 & now M74 extention pretty much a stones throw away.....

An asset stripper could flog this and then clean things up still leaving the stadium & training facility (and no long term duffer player contracts) to then sell on to 'blue nose 2012' for football purposes...making a healthy wedge in he process and caring little about reduced annual income / asset reduction....

Sounds like a plan for STF.

[ancienthibby]

The Final Curtain draws closer!:thumbsup:

http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/football/17568752

[StevieC]

I think that's a good deal all round. The buyers get a decent set of assets. Ticketus get a slice. HMRC do, too, and get their sacrifice, as you say. There also will be a future business for them to leech off :greengrin.

I'm not so sure that Ticketus will be so easily pleased. I suspect that even a liquidated Rangers will face lengthy court actions, especially if they are still playing at Ibrox and allowed to stay in the SPL.

[PaulSmith]

THE American frontrunners in the race to buy Rangers are prepared to pay £25 million for control of the club – but their preferred option is to put the Ibrox side into liquidation.
The bid from Chicago-based Club 9 Sports, who have been linked to Rangers director Andrew Ellis and by association shamed owner Craig Whyte, is one of three offers which, if successful, may result in the new owners taking the highly unpopular option of winding up the club and reforming it as a new company (Newco).


All taking shape now, Whyte remembered appointed Duff and Phelps

[JeMeSouviens]

Channel 4 news has new Hun content tonight. From Alex Thomson's twitter:

"Inventor of EBTs says he told SDM's company to do one thing - RFC went off and did another"

Bang goes the acting on advice of advisors defence. :greengrin

[ancient hibee]

Pretty clear the Yanks are in this with Whyte-it's all too pat(if you're allowed to say that about Rangers).

[greenginger]

The bit I liked best was when Thomson said that when the Tax Tribunal results are announced , other football clubs BOTH NORTH AND SOUTH of the border will be getting early calls from the HMRC.

I think the PBS might be on the list. :aok:

[Newry Hibs]

Remembering all the bigoted goons outside the big house on administration day. Will probably take the day off work for liquidation day. Crack open that bottle of single malt.

I hope I s*it my trousers laughing.

:greengrin I think that's got the makings of a T-shirt slogan.

[greenginger]

If there was any doubt as why Martin Bain dropped his claim against Rangers, I think it is pretty obvious Craigy's lawyer would crucify him in the witness box.

Under oath and facing a prison sentence for not telling the " truth, the whole truth , and nothing but the truth " , All the corrupt and cheating practices of Der Hun would be out in the open.

[CropleyWasGod]

Pretty clear the Yanks are in this with Whyte-it's all too pat(if you're allowed to say that about Rangers).

If that is the case, two things strike me:-

1. a shrug of the shoulders. Former owners buying the old business... happens all the time.

2. uncontained glee at the thought of Craigy asset stripping them and shafting them AGAIN!! :flag:

[down-the-slope]

If that is the case, two things strike me:-

1. a shrug of the shoulders. Former owners buying the old business... happens all the time.

2. uncontained glee at the thought of Craigy asset stripping them and shafting them AGAIN!! :flag:


:agree: you would kind of think it was such a good result..he had planned it all along :rolleyes:

[CropleyWasGod]

:agree: you would kind of think it was such a good result..he had planned it all along :rolleyes:

If he has... then he deserves a freaking medal... or a statue outside the Copland Road Tesco :greengrin

[CallumLaidlaw]

I want some of what this guy is on (some rangers fan on twitter that's been abusing the C4 journo) -

The Blue Knights and Brian Kennedy joining together to save Rangers. Can't wait till next season now #futuresbright

Hearing Paul Murray met with Ally. Woodgate, Cuellar and Hutton all practically signed for next season!

Rumours also of Darren Fletcher on loan as he recovers and Bendtner on loan from Arsenal #WATP

“@eddiedocherty1: @CelticTaxcase how can that be if were still in admin? :-\” we will emerge in the next two weeks with TBK

Hearing American Club 9 consortium have untold wealth and well placed friends in the Glaziers, Randy Lerner and Yanks at Lpool #gersinepl ?

[CallumLaidlaw]

http://www.channel4.com/news/revealed-the-payments-that-may-lead-to-rangers-downfall

[Viva_Palmeiras]

Sorry for not keeping up but one thing that was raised as a question for Tomo was the EBTs are clearly "tax avoidance not tax evasion" if this - whih seems reasonable - is true then is there a real issue morals apart?

[CropleyWasGod]

Sorry for not keeping up but one thing that was raised as a question for Tomo was the EBTs are clearly "tax avoidance not tax evasion" if this - whih seems reasonable - is true then is there a real issue morals apart?

It's not the fact that RFC used EBT's that is the problem. It seems to be the way that they used them that is.

[Part/Time Supporter]

Pretty clear the Yanks are in this with Whyte-it's all too pat(if you're allowed to say that about Rangers).

There was a story in one of the papers a while back claiming that Whyte was angling for a "finder's fee" (circa £100K) from the Yanks.

[Viva_Palmeiras]

It's not the fact that RFC used EBT's that is the problem. It seems to be the way that they used them that is.

Excellent :agree: as the boy with the pipe mentioned in passing whilst promoting his book :greengrin

[stokesmessiah]

http://www.channel4.com/news/revealed-the-payments-that-may-lead-to-rangers-downfall

If those documents are real then RFC really is in trouble.

[WindyMiller]

http://www.channel4.com/news/revealed-the-payments-that-may-lead-to-rangers-downfall


Martin Bain should be hauled up and questioned about this, as should Oglivie, as there is no way he wasn't a part of this.

How can Channel 4, with less than 2 weeks involvement, find this stuff and publish it when the Scottish press haven't? (this is a rhetorical question)

[green glory]

Rangers! Hell awaits.

[lapsedhibee]

Rangers! Hell awaits.

And when they get there, just to maximise their misery, let's hope it's Fenians in charge. :agree:

[BarneyK]

Hearing American Club 9 consortium have untold wealth and well placed friends in the Glaziers, Randy Lerner and Yanks at Lpool #gersinepl ?

Craig Whyte had untold wealth too. He didn't tell them how much he had, and as it turns out, he had **** all. :na na:

[Caversham Green]

Martin Bain should be hauled up and questioned about this, as should Oglivie, as there is no way he wasn't a part of this.

How can Channel 4, with less than 2 weeks involvement, find this stuff and publish it when the Scottish press haven't? (this is a rhetorical question)

:agree: The president of the SFA received a 'discretionary' £95,000 tax-free from the scheme while he was a director of the club that implemented it and the SPL investigation haven't even spoken to him yet. So what are they doing?

[down-the-slope]

Duff & Phelps are court appointed...and have to report to Judge on activity where they have sought to restructure / sell etc 'in the best interests of creditors'

So just who do we think ARE the creditors? I think that there is a long way to go to even establish this with legal certainty....right at this moment I would ascertain there is only 25/30 million debt (Ticketas is not in my view a debt - its a right to sell seats at future date - with only any money due from this restrospectivly )... (yes it makes selling club as going concern harder...but not impossible)

Surely Ibrox / Murry Park / Car park are worth more than that...so best interests of creditors is liquidation :confused: ....the EBT case is irrelevant right at this moment as that is a potential FUTURE liability only...

Would love to be a fly on the wall when D&P are answering to Judge on thier Administration.....:aok:

[greenginger]

Has a Fit and Proper Person test been carried out in these Yanks if they wish to own the RANJURS ?


Like Eh, What school did you's go to ?


None o' you's left footers are you ?


How many are Kaffliks like ?


The Loyal masses have a right to know ! :greengrin

[AndyM_1875]

The bit I liked best was when Thomson said that when the Tax Tribunal results are announced , other football clubs BOTH NORTH AND SOUTH of the border will be getting early calls from the HMRC.

I think the PBS might be on the list. :aok:

Doubt HMRC will waste energy on them in the short term.
There are MUCH bigger fish to fry. Liverpool and Newcastle both rumoured to be on the list PLUS another six Premiership clubs.

[Eyrie]

I could see HMRC looking for a relatively easy second target to confirm the judgement in the Rangers case before moving on to the big money in the Premiership. And with Ogilvie's involvement at the PBS we can keep our fingers crossed.

[CentreLine]

It's not the fact that RFC used EBT's that is the problem. It seems to be the way that they used them that is.

:agree: In both HMRC's view and also as far as SFA/SPL rules are concerned. I am much more interested in how the SPL and then the SFA deal with this. I don't care what club is involved, if they have broken the rules then they must be emptied and earn their place back from the bottom. Failure to do this will be a total abdication of responsibility and all the proof I need to convince me that there will never be a level playing field in Scottish Football and we may as well turn out our own lights on the way out because the game is dead.

[grunt]

Ticketas is not in my view a debt - its a right to sell seats at future date - with only any money due from this restrospectivly But surely if Ticketus have bought the rights to a future event, then until they exercise those rights the money they paid to RFC will be a debt owed by RFC to T?

[StevieC]

Is today European Licence deadline day?

Is that the huns missed the boat on Europe, due to them still in administration?

[grunt]

Saturday morning musing. Still can't get my head round the sequence of events over the Ticketus deal and Whyte paying off Lloyds Banking Group. Did CW get the money from Ticketus to pay LBG before he owned the club? Did he sell something to Ticketus (the rights to future season ticket sales) before he had ownership of the club, and therefore ownership of the season tickets? If the sale took place after he bought the club, where did the money come from to pay LBG? Sorry if this has been dealt with already, but there just seems to be so much wrong with that transaction.

[ancienthibby]

But surely if Ticketus have bought the rights to a future event, then until they exercise those rights the money they paid to RFC will be a debt owed by RFC to T?

Ticketus (as I u:top marksnderstand it) have always claimed that they bought an asset from RFC, being the value of forward ST sales.

I would think instead that they have bought a portion of a forward revenue stream (which is not the first time this has been done and, outside of football).

Many of you will be familiar with the concept of invoice discounting whereby a company finances the value of its receivables (in this case ST sales) in order to get cash in today rather than over a period of time, and pays a discount for the value provided. Nothing wrong in that itself.

However, where it gets murky is in relying on repeat ST sales for the same or similar value in years 2, 3 and 4, let's say.

The concept is completely valid. The issue is what happened on the other side? In this case BulgingEyesCraikie paid off the Bank, so if there is an issue about ripping up the T deal then there must be a major issue about the paying-off of the RFC Bank loan??:cb

[blackpoolhibs]

How are Rangers allowed to keep loan players, just noticed Kyle Bartley is playing for them today? :confused:

[BarneyK]

How are Rangers allowed to keep loan players, just noticed Kyle Bartley is playing for them today? :confused:

Think it's down to them being "Ra Peepul" or somethin' :coffee:

[James70]

Think it's down to them being "Ra Peepul" or somethin' :coffee:

Shortly to be "they was the peepul" ! :greengrin

[Hibernia&Alba]

Is today European Licence deadline day?

Is that the huns missed the boat on Europe, due to them still in administration?

Yes. Accounts not signed off, so they aren't eligible for europe next season. More revenue they won't be earning.

[The Falcon]

Yes. Accounts not signed off, so they aren't eligible for europe next season. More revenue they won't be earning.

Is that our Yam chums goosed as well then?

[Caversham Green]

Saturday morning musing. Still can't get my head round the sequence of events over the Ticketus deal and Whyte paying off Lloyds Banking Group. Did CW get the money from Ticketus to pay LBG before he owned the club? Did he sell something to Ticketus (the rights to future season ticket sales) before he had ownership of the club, and therefore ownership of the season tickets? If the sale took place after he bought the club, where did the money come from to pay LBG? Sorry if this has been dealt with already, but there just seems to be so much wrong with that transaction.

A guess at the way it worked is:

CW approached T saying he was about to buy RFC and wanted to do a future ST deal with them. To seal the deal now they could put the money in a 'neutral' bank account held by those honest upright solicitors Collyer Bristow and if the purchase of RFC fell through they would give the money back to T. CW then showed SDM the statements for this account saying that it was the funds already in place to repay the LBG loan (SDM needed to verify that the LBG loan would be repaid as a condition of the sale). He then handed over his quid to SDM, confirmed with T that he was now the owner of RFC and the ST deal went ahead, after which he paid off LBG.

Of course SDM was totally 'duped' in all this because Ticketus would almost certainly not have thought to discuss the matter with him in any way :fibber:.

[Hibernia&Alba]

Is that our Yam chums goosed as well then?

I don't know acutally. Anyway, they needn't worry about europe :wink:

[CropleyWasGod]

Is today European Licence deadline day?

Is that the huns missed the boat on Europe, due to them still in administration?

It's also SFA Licence deadline day, Stevie.

Technically, Rangers and Hearts are in default on that as well.

Shame.

[Seveno]

A guess at the way it worked is:

CW approached T saying he was about to buy RFC and wanted to do a future ST deal with them. To seal the deal now they could put the money in a 'neutral' bank account held by those honest upright solicitors Collyer Bristow and if the purchase of RFC fell through they would give the money back to T. CW then showed SDM the statements for this account saying that it was the funds already in place to repay the LBG loan (SDM needed to verify that the LBG loan would be repaid as a condition of the sale). He then handed over his quid to SDM, confirmed with T that he was now the owner of RFC and the ST deal went ahead, after which he paid off LBG.

Of course SDM was totally 'duped' in all this because Ticketus would almost certainly not have thought to discuss the matter with him in any way :fibber:.


You have to wonder though, why did Ticketus agree to lodge the money in the Solicitors bank account before the purchase. What was in it for them ?

[Caversham Green]

You have to wonder though, why did Ticketus agree to lodge the money in the Solicitors bank account before the purchase. What was in it for them ?

Possibly just a guarantee that the deal would be done. It seemed like a lucrative deal, and CW could have stressed that he would need the cash as soon as he bought RFC. Ticketus had nothing to lose by putting it in a neutral account (it might only have been for a few days) and were guaranteed a good deal and future goodwill if they did it.

Edit: Of course it could have been a three-way stitch-up that would never have been discovered if RFC had qualified for the Champions League, but I'm sure it wasn't.

[CropleyWasGod]

Possibly just a guarantee that the deal would be done. It seemed like a lucrative deal, and CW could have stressed that he would need the cash as soon as he bought RFC. Ticketus had nothing to lose by putting it in a neutral account (it might only have been for a few days) and were guaranteed a good deal and future goodwill if they did it.

That's my take on it.:agree:

T had dealt with RFC for a few years, and were perhaps anxious that the change of ownership would mean a change in the ST arrangements. So it made sense to keep in with CW.

[Northernhibee]

http://www.channel4.com/news/revealed-the-payments-that-may-lead-to-rangers-downfall

Hosed myself at the ugly f***er shouting "WE ARRA PEOPLE" at the start of that. No for much longer!

[Seveno]

Possibly just a guarantee that the deal would be done. It seemed like a lucrative deal, and CW could have stressed that he would need the cash as soon as he bought RFC. Ticketus had nothing to lose by putting it in a neutral account (it might only have been for a few days) and were guaranteed a good deal and future goodwill if they did it.

Edit: Of course it could have been a three-way stitch-up that would never have been discovered if RFC had qualified for the Champions League, but I'm sure it wasn't.

I never, for a moment, thought it might be some sort to stitch up. I am confident that every party involved in this situation is totally above board and of the highest level of integrity.

:fibber:

[CropleyWasGod]

I never, for a moment, thought it might be some sort to stitch up. I am confident that every party involved in this situation is totally above board and of the highest level of integrity.

:fibber:

...said Alice.

[The Falcon]

I don't know acutally. Anyway, they needn't worry about europe :wink:

I was just thinking if they managed to scrape in on the grounds that Rangers were in administration/liquidation and how much I would piss myself as I watched the penny drop. I may have to watch a while as their small brains attempted to process and calculate the information but I feel sure it would be worth the wait.

[CentreLine]

It's also SFA Licence deadline day, Stevie.

Technically, Rangers and Hearts are in default on that as well.

Shame.

Is this for sure? I don't want to wake up Monday morning and find that they have come up on the rails and submitted (cooked or otherwise) books over this wekend.

[CropleyWasGod]

Is this for sure? I don't want to wake up Monday morning and find that they have come up on the rails and submitted (cooked or otherwise) books over this wekend.

31st March is the deadline for both. Which is today. So, they have another 8 and a half hours....

[down-the-slope]

But surely if Ticketus have bought the rights to a future event, then until they exercise those rights the money they paid to RFC will be a debt owed by RFC to T?

That will be a point for argument...as they still could have right to sell seats at Ibrox whether its Rangers / NewHuns / WWF or whatever

[greenginger]

31st March is the deadline for both. Which is today. So, they have another 8 and a half hours....


There nothing to stop them submitting their signed account to the SFA without registering them with Companies House.

Completely irrational of course as they would be greatly increasing the Penalty they pay for late filing of accounts. Saying that their accounts last year are dated 31st March :fibber: and they were registered at Companies House until 13th May. :confused:

[ancienthibby]

That will be a point for argument...as they still could have right to sell seats at Ibrox wether its Rangers / NewHuns / WWF or whatever

Not being an advocate for Ticketus, but as an ordinary observer, I have no doubt that the rights to the value of forward season ticket sales lies with Ticketus.

They are due all the forward value from that commercial transaction with Craikie's Newco.:agree:

[ancient hibee]

Under English Law -yes

Under Scots Law -no.

Even though the contract was under English Law it has no standing in the matter of conferring rights.

[jgl07]

That will be a point for argument...as they still could have right to sell seats at Ibrox whether its Rangers / NewHuns / WWF or whatever

What if NewHuns ground-shared with fellow Division Three team Queens Park?

[MrSmith]

Under English Law -yes

Under Scots Law -no.

Even though the contract was under English Law it has no standing in the matter of conferring rights.


I tried that with a credit company and their reply was, come ahead! And on further research/advice found that, if indeed the contract is made in England, it stands!

[jgl07]

I tried that with a credit company and their reply was, come ahead! And on further research/advice found that, if indeed the contract is made in England, it stands!

But Ibrox is in Scotland (?) so would this be enforcable?

Either way it should keep the courts busy for the next five years.

[Seveno]

I think that we are agreed that liquidation is inevitable and I think that the sale to Club 9 Sports has always been the planned endgame. They have already said that liquidation is their preferred option.

So when are HMRC going to make a move and ensure they get their Receivers appointed to avoid Duff and Duffer continuing to call the shots ?

[PaulSmith]

Quick question, would the same admin team also be the receivers if put into liquidation and would it be the current admin team that puts them into liquidation?

[down-the-slope]

What if NewHuns ground-shared with fellow Division Three team Queens Park?

Then they would have contract to sell seats to the WWF at Ibrox....:greengrin

[AndyM_1875]

What if NewHuns ground-shared with fellow Division Three team Queens Park?

That is my one fear about a Phoenix Rangers being placed in Division 3. Quite simply the impact they would have on the clubs who are in their natural home in that league like East Stirling , Montrose, Stranraer and so on. The presence of Rangers requires much greater infrastructure than those teams (none of whom are particularly strong financially) can hope to have and will also require far more expensive policing and security. Having an attendance norm of 300- 500 suddenly multiplied by 10 could be catastrophic financially for the would the revenue from a league game with Rangers be enough to cover costs?
Personally, I just don't know.

[Peevemor]

That is my one fear about a Phoenix Rangers being placed in Division 3. Quite simply the impact they would have on the clubs who are in their natural home in that league like East Stirling , Montrose, Stranraer and so on. The presence of Rangers requires much greater infrastructure than those teams (none of whom are particularly strong financially) can hope to have and will also require far more expensive policing and security. Having an attendance norm of 300- 500 suddenly multiplied by 10 could be catastrophic financially for the would the revenue from a league game with Rangers be enough to cover costs?
Personally, I just don't know.

They'll be rubbing their hands (and probably other parts of their bodies) at the thought of a couple of home games against the huns..

[green glory]

They're their Union Jack boxers over on Hunmedia. The Herald meant to be running a story tomorrow where the admins are now talking about liquidation now being a real possibility. Bottom line, no one but Club 9 can really buy them. Liquidation is their preferred route. This week is going to be a . Get the tissues in boys.

The ostriches might actually be taking their heads out of the sand now. Shame it's too late eh?

[SmashinGlass]

Quick question, would the same admin team also be the receivers if put into liquidation and would it be the current admin team that puts them into liquidation?

Yes to both, although they would be liquidators as opposed to Receivers

[Hibernia&Alba]

They're their Union Jack boxers over on Hunmedia. The Herald meant to be running a story tomorrow where the admins are now talking about liquidation now being a real possibility. Bottom line, no one but Club 9 can really buy them. Liquidation is their preferred route. This week is going to be a . Get the tissues in boys.

The ostriches might actually be taking their heads out of the sand now. Shame it's too late eh?

:faf:

Very well put.

[greenginger]

That is my one fear about a Phoenix Rangers being placed in Division 3. Quite simply the impact they would have on the clubs who are in their natural home in that league like East Stirling , Montrose, Stranraer and so on. The presence of Rangers requires much greater infrastructure than those teams (none of whom are particularly strong financially) can hope to have and will also require far more expensive policing and security. Having an attendance norm of 300- 500 suddenly multiplied by 10 could be catastrophic financially for the would the revenue from a league game with Rangers be enough to cover costs?
Personally, I just don't know.


Rangers went to Arbroath and Celtic went to Peterhead in the Scottish Cup this year and the matches took place without any trouble.

I think it would be seen as part of the punishment, that a cheating club like Rangers should be made to start from the bottom and work their way back up.

It would provide additional finance to smaller clubs throughout the Leagues and just maybe it might get through to the thick hordes that, in sport, nobody want to play with CHEATS !

[grunt]

Oh dear. Self interest rearing its ugly head...

http://www.scotsman.com/scotland-on-sunday/scotland/rangers-administration-others-will-go-to-wall-if-newco-rangers-are-kept-out-of-spl-1-2209453

[down-the-slope]

STEVE Brown, the St Johnstone chairman, has warned that if Rangers go into liquidation and are not permitted to re-enter the SPL as a new company, several top-flight clubs would go out of business.
One of the six members of the SPL board whose job it would be to consider an application by the “new” Rangers, Brown stressed that he had yet to make up his mind as to what would be the most appropriate course of action.
He said that he hoped never to be faced with the decision but, if he was, he would have to weigh sporting integrity against the cost to clubs such as his own. Refusing to grant the Glasgow club an SPL licence would, in his view, lead to a financial “disaster”.
Asked if he meant that some clubs would go to the wall, Brown replied: “I think they would. I think a lot of them are kidding themselves on. One or two of them are on the brink as it is. If they’re on the brink as it is, and they’re getting support financially from Rangers and Sky, there can only be one thing [that would happen].”
In an exclusive interview with Scotland on Sunday, Brown also called for a more conciliatory approach by the SPL’s non-Old Firm clubs to the current row over voting rights. Some have said that they would consider resigning from the top flight in protest.
He says that only the best-run clubs would survive in a league without the Old Firm. “Would you get by without the Old Firm? We [at St Johnstone] would get by. We’ve demonstrated that because we’ve been in the First Division for seven years, but you certainly wouldn’t have the same calibre of player at your club. Could the other teams get by without the Old Firm? I think three or four of them would go out of business. Careful what you wish for.”
Brown says that, if a newco Rangers were to be excluded from the SPL, the economic impact would outweigh any other benefits. “You probably would get more supporters because your team would be likely to be more competitive, but in financial terms, it would be a disaster, an absolute disaster.
“In financial terms, I can’t see how [the other clubs] could possibly fill the gap. The revenue they [Rangers] bring with them equates to probably three or four games against teams from the bottom six. It’s a huge void, both in gate revenue and TV money because it is my understanding that the Sky contract would fall through.”


Bit in bold for me......we want a league with well run (living within means) clubs...if other go bust then so be it...time for the SPL to be run on a different basis where clubs like ours who have invested in infastructure and youth programms get the benefit of that and are not 'cheated' by others. Brown has done a great job with St J...but they need to get more of their own fans in their ground and not rely on filling it a few times a season with bigger teams fans.

I also think if he is on panel that will stand in judgement then he should not really be doing interviews like this .....

[Jim44]

Oh dear. Self interest rearing its ugly head...

http://www.scotsman.com/scotland-on-sunday/scotland/rangers-administration-others-will-go-to-wall-if-newco-rangers-are-kept-out-of-spl-1-2209453

With that attitude, the baw's bust and we might as well pack up and get back to comfortable subservience. No wonder Rantic treat everyone like dirt.

[Lucius Apuleius]

Sounds to me like he is saying drop yer kecks, bend over and grab your ankles, something is coming and you ain't gonna like it.

[DaveF]

Oh dear. Self interest rearing its ugly head...

http://www.scotsman.com/scotland-on-sunday/scotland/rangers-administration-others-will-go-to-wall-if-newco-rangers-are-kept-out-of-spl-1-2209453

If Brown has one of six votes, who holds the other five? His attitude sums up everything that is wrong with scottish football.

[greenginger]

The Journalist is again stating the decision to grant New-Co Huns re-entry into the SPL rests with the SPL management committee rather than the whole league in general meeting passing a qualified resolution as per the SPL Articles of Association Clause 14.

Has anyone on here read an explanation anywhere as to why this would be the case ?

[down-the-slope]

With that attitude, the baw's bust and we might as well pack up and get back to comfortable subservience. No wonder Rantic treat everyone like dirt.


:agree: Sadly true....

So what if we go back (in some natural way) to the time of late 70's / early 80's when the OF were not very good winning everything and 15,000 crowds were not unusual for the OF.....are we going to just make up the rules so they win/ keep big crowds / have happy SKY :rolleyes:

YES we should run clubs in a business like way...BUT they are sporting clubs firstly and without sporting integrity they are nothing.

All this cobblers about money = good football / better standard. Scotland will never compete with England on our door step for best players...so why pay such huge wages to get mediocre players...

A season of Watching our double winning U19's shows you can have great football / entertainment / competition.....and very little money involved....there are now players on the dole due to shrinking squads...we need to find a level of sustainable wage, for which there will always be players willing to play for as it will still be better than blokes grafting on building sites (as example) are earning...of course the best will move on...but they do anyway now...

[matty_f]

What price sporting integrity?
People like Brown need to realise that failing to dothe right thing will drive fans away in their droves. Why would I or anyone else shell out £400 on a season ticket knowing full well we've been cheated for years and now the league isn't even pretending it's a level playing field? The SPL can GTF if they bend over to Rangers.

[down-the-slope]

For me its the symbolic things that need to be held onto...I hope Gers do go pop....then NewCo Huns will have zero history...no right to have a Wee star on their shirts...no records...no titles....and less SC wins than Hibs :greengrin

That in its self will be punishment...

[DaveF]

What price sporting integrity?
People like Brown need to realise that failing to dothe right thing will drive fans away in their droves. Why would I or anyone else shell out £400 on a season ticket knowing full well we've been cheated for years and now the league isn't even pretending it's a level playing field? The SPL can GTF if they bend over to Rangers.

Well said Matty. As much as I love Hibs, I will be sending them a message in the form non attendance to register my disgust if this farce pans out as looks likely. Its a longer drive, but I'll get my Hibs fix by watching tne 19s.

Hopefully the spl do not roll over on this one.

[Caversham Green]

With that attitude, the baw's bust and we might as well pack up and get back to comfortable subservience. No wonder Rantic treat everyone like dirt.

:agree: The implication is that it was any of the other 10 clubs in the huns' place - including his own St Johnstone - they would suffer the consequences, but because it's one of the old firm special concessions should be made.

Probably the most depressing comment I've read so far on the matter (Edit: I mean Brown's comment, not yours Jim).

[Hibs Class]

What price sporting integrity?
People like Brown need to realise that failing to dothe right thing will drive fans away in their droves. Why would I or anyone else shell out £400 on a season ticket knowing full well we've been cheated for years and now the league isn't even pretending it's a level playing field? The SPL can GTF if they bend over to Rangers.

Agree completely. We have already written off renewing our STs for the early bird offer as this week's deadline will pass with too many unanswered questions. If it plays out as is suggested today then we won't be renewing at all.

[Eyrie]

It was Brown's father Geoff who is responsible for how well run St Johnstone are, and very disappointing that his son has come out with such stupid comments.

Does he really expect that teams like Dunfermline, Kilmarnock or Inverness have budgets for the next 2-3 years which assume they are in the SPL and so would be bankrupt if relegated?

[Leithenhibby]

The fans will drift away faster than a "blink of an eye" if Mr Brown get's is way :rolleyes: It's just sad to see the game we love get in this mess, with people like him bending over with such ease.. IT'S WRONG..

Sunday Herald warns them to take the "Brace Position" :wink:

http://www.heraldscotland.com/sport/football/rangers-time-to-rip-it-up-and-start-again.17193773

[Jack]

The Journalist is again stating the decision to grant New-Co Huns re-entry into the SPL rests with the SPL management committee rather than the whole league in general meeting passing a qualified resolution as per the SPL Articles of Association Clause 14.

Has anyone on here read an explanation anywhere as to why this would be the case ?

I think the important part for you is this I think and where folk are fudging the edges;

"One of the six members of the SPL board whose job it
would be to consider an application by the “new” Rangers"

I would imagine it would be this groups job to CONSIDER an application then make a recommendation to the full board.

As others keep on saying if they get right back in the games a bogie.

I'd also be surprised if UEFA allowed such cheating to go on unchecked, indeed condoned, given all the financial irregularity waggly finger they keep waggling.

As Hibs we keep thinking the OF won't be touched by the Scottish authorities and it will be the likes of us that will be made an example of, UEFA have no great love for those irksome rangers who spoil the finals fun with rioting, looting and folk songs.

Whatever the outcomes I expected the SFA will be hauled up to UEFA to answer a few very scary questions.

[grunt]

Sunday Herald warns them to take the "Brace Position" :wink:

http://www.heraldscotland.com/sport/football/rangers-time-to-rip-it-up-and-start-again.17193773

"You can name-swap so there is no impediment to any newco calling itself Glasgow Rangers". Since when were they called Glasgow Rangers? You'd have thought the administrators would know the name of the club by now?

[greenginger]

I think the important part for you is this I think and where folk are fudging the edges;

"One of the six members of the SPL board whose job it
would be to consider an application by the “new” Rangers"

I would imagine it would be this groups job to CONSIDER an application then make a recommendation to the full board.

As others keep on saying if they get right back in the games a bogie.

I'd also be surprised if UEFA allowed such cheating to go on unchecked, indeed condoned, given all the financial irregularity waggly finger they keep waggling.

As Hibs we keep thinking the OF won't be touched by the Scottish authorities and it will be the likes of us that will be made an example of, UEFA have no great love for those irksome rangers who spoil the finals fun with rioting, looting and folk songs.

Whatever the outcomes I expected the SFA will be hauled up to UEFA to answer a few very scary questions.



Thanks for that, its calmed my rage down a little. :greengrin but somehow I cannot envisage the Sporting Hacks appreciating the different nuances involved. I think I might give Mr Paul Forsyth a call on Monday.

[grunt]

The PR machine is moving up the gears. Here's an article from "Walter" which makes my blood boil.

http://www.heraldscotland.com/sport/football/gutless-greedy-gullible.17182292

Interesting headline, too. It doesn't seem to be mentioned in the article, so it is not clear who said it, annd who is referenced.
And another point, this is the guy who was manager during all the EBT cheating. Why does he still have a voice in this?