Generic Sevco / Rangers meltdown thread

[majorhibs]

In the broader picture, I've been saying this for ages. It's too simplistic to accuse Regan, Doncaster et al of being the GFA. They are both English and have no lifelong history up here and yet look how quickly they were silenced? Same with Ann Budge - what is it (in precise terms) that Sevco have over the authorities that makes all of them instantly kowtow to them? No-one is addressing that, even JJ and Phil Mac which genuinely surprises me.
Very good point. Where's that channel 4 dude, would this not be up his street?

[cabbageandribs1875]

More like obsessed with the Huns, when not trying to get Hibby pitch invaders in bother. :rolleyes:



:agree: or thinking it was ok for his/her/it's sevco friends getting tickets for the hibs end before hibs fans for the LC final with Ross co, still...he/she/it appears to enjoy e-mailing leeann dempster quite a lot(whilst calling other posters pests for contacting a fans rep)...:rolleyes:

[Ozyhibby]

https://thecelticblog.com/2017/08/blogs/stewart-regan-hopes-he-can-brass-neck-our-inquiry-calls-hes-crazier-than-pedro-if-he-tries/


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[MrSmith]

https://thecelticblog.com/2017/08/blogs/stewart-regan-hopes-he-can-brass-neck-our-inquiry-calls-hes-crazier-than-pedro-if-he-tries/


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This is the statement I want to read from our club too!

[Ozyhibby]

Times are tight at Sevco. Bruno Alves having to stay at a Premier Inn.
https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20170826/751f34ff4d6b386df4b25eb396f8b85c.jpg


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[ancient hibee]

This is the statement I want to read from our club too!

Why should Hibs issue the same statement as some blogger.When is Celtic going to do that?

[MrSmith]

Why should Hibs issue the same statement as some blogger.When is Celtic going to do that?

hopefully will release a similar statement containing similar content with intent.

[MrSmith]

Why should Hibs issue the same statement as some blogger.When is Celtic going to do that?

hopefully our board will release a similar statement containing similar content with intent.

[Gregor]

Times are tight at Sevco. Bruno Alves having to stay at a Premier Inn.
https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20170826/751f34ff4d6b386df4b25eb396f8b85c.jpg


Plenty of room in that suitcase for a 12 inch plate.

[Dan Sarf]

Plenty of room in that suitcase for a 12 inch plate.


:top marks

[marinello59]

hopefully our board will release a similar statement containing similar content with intent.

I hope not.

[Just Jimmy]

Plenty of room in that suitcase for a 12 inch plate.superb.

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[ancient hibee]

hopefully our board will release a similar statement containing similar content with intent.


Relieved it's now 11.00.Thought you were going to post a response every hour:greengrin

[MrSmith]

Relieved it's now 11.00.Thought you were going to post a response every hour:greengrin

Ha ha aye, dunno how that happened? My ipads acts strangely with hibs.net

[Siralbertkidd]

Wow, over 5 million views of this thread. Where is the poster that said no one ws interested?!
Note to Hibs Board, this is not going away!

[Ozyhibby]

Wow, over 5 million views of this thread. Where is the poster that said no one ws interested?!
Note to Hibs Board, this is not going away!

Still waiting on Traceyhibs getting back to us. Not sure if the supporters reps are representing us to the board or the board to us.


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[Chorley Hibee]

Still waiting on Traceyhibs getting back to us. Not sure if the supporters reps are representing us to the board or the board to us.


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Unfortunately it seems like the fan's representative isn't actually representing us on this issue.

The least she could do is show proverbial face and inform us why there has a been a delay in the supposed statement, or explain why she can no longer comment on the issue.

It seems as if our representatives have quickly assumed the default position of our board - that being silence and a overriding hope (wish) for this to fade into obscurity.

If I am correct on the above (and I truly hope I'm wrong) then we are complicit in the whole saga and I'm ashamed that we are doing nothing in attempt to clean up our game.

It is nothing more than tacit approval of ten years of Hibs fans being shortchanged.

[majorhibs]

Unfortunately it seems like the fan's representative isn't actually representing us on this issue.

The least she could do is show proverbial face and inform us why there has a been a delay in the supposed statement, or explain why she can no longer comment on the issue.

It seems as if our representatives have quickly assumed the default position of our board - that being silence and a overriding hope (wish) for this to fade into obscurity.

If I am correct on the above (and I truly hope I'm wrong) then we are complicit in the whole saga and I'm ashamed that we are doing nothing in attempt to clean up our game.

It is nothing more than tacit approval of ten years of Hibs fans being shortchanged.

I'm just so disappointed that all those results, that meant so much to me, that I spent so much on that I possibly should have spent elsewhere, that I travelled & sometimes REALLY put myself out for, amongst all the others with me, that we all did this in the support & name of our team Hibernian FC, that we now learn all that time just 1 team was cheating, that that team won most available, & now, from inaction, our current people in charge feel, without an explanation, what we feel now is irrelevant. If I think about that time, those players they had, that they did not pay correct taxes for therefore giving them a superior winning team, if I think of that to much it's painful for me. Remembering games & days devastated, so close, now knowing they were cheating, I want, not financially, but emotionally, reimbursing. From my team.

[blackpoolhibs]

Still waiting on Traceyhibs getting back to us. Not sure if the supporters reps are representing us to the board or the board to us.


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Not sure why Tracey is getting all the stick, we appointed two reps? Both promised to be seen more frequently on sites like this before the vote, one has disappeared off the face of the social media earth?

No real surprise to me.

[Radium]

Not sure why Tracey is getting all the stick, we appointed two reps? Both promised to be seen more frequently on sites like this before the vote, one has disappeared off the face of the social media earth?

No real surprise to me.

At the moment it seems that we have volunteer supporters liaison officers with a posh title. That is not to disparage the good work they have done representing the club and helping fans.
Rather, the situation around the promised statements, that have not arrived, highlights that they cannot speak publicly without board approval.
This was a position that has been discussed elsewhere but from a personal point of view it will probably lead to me not getting involved in the votes going forward.



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[HappyAsHellas]

I know that there are certain situations where the fans reps are not allowed to go public with what they have heard or saw etc. This could well be one of those situations. However, having said that I don't think it would be too difficult to let us know that this is the case. I am still waiting on our club's official statement to clarify our stance on this matter, and given Mr Petrie's quote on sporting integrity I hope it's the right one.

[Bostonhibby]

Not sure why Tracey is getting all the stick, we appointed two reps? Both promised to be seen more frequently on sites like this before the vote, one has disappeared off the face of the social media earth?

No real surprise to me.


At the moment it seems that we have volunteer supporters liaison officers with a posh title. That is not to disparage the good work they have done representing the club and helping fans.
Rather, the situation around the promised statements, that have not arrived, highlights that they cannot speak publicly without board approval.
This was a position that has been discussed elsewhere but from a personal point of view it will probably lead to me not getting involved in the votes going forward.



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I know that there are certain situations where the fans reps are not allowed to go public with what they have heard or saw etc. This could well be one of those situations. However, having said that I don't think it would be too difficult to let us know that this is the case. I am still waiting on our club's official statement to clarify our stance on this matter, and given Mr Petrie's quote on sporting integrity I hope it's the right one.

:agree:

All relevant here I feel. Was pro the fans rep as at least it was better than nothing / a step in the right direction, sadly because it involved a proper seat on the board the directors responsibilities, legal and personal, were always going to catch up with the badge wearers at some point.

There can come a time where what might be in the interests of the fans, or of interest to fans can't or won't be done by the board. This could be one of them - not a good place to be if you feel you were elected just to represent the fans and communicate all that you are involved in to the fans. It's why I felt last time around that an election of fans reps in a liaison role but without being board members might have been about as effective, even if the board did not share everything with the rep it might be a fairer role for what is effectively an unpaid voluntary role and would probably avoided them being in the situation Tracey now finds herself in.

That said I'd like to think that if there is an issue that fundamentally affects the fans or the club itself I'd expect the fan on the board to break ranks and put their constituents in the picture, or maybe even resign and say why(?). This issue alone probably isn't the one to do it on even though I am disappointed the club said it would declare its position in a time frame and seems to have left our rep who committed to something to burn without the minimal explanation.

[Chorley Hibee]

Not sure why Tracey is getting all the stick, we appointed two reps? Both promised to be seen more frequently on sites like this before the vote, one has disappeared off the face of the social media earth?

No real surprise to me.

Fair point, and I agree with you entirely.

[Kavinho]

I'm just so disappointed that all those results, that meant so much to me, that I spent so much on that I possibly should have spent elsewhere, that I travelled & sometimes REALLY put myself out for, amongst all the others with me, that we all did this in the support & name of our team Hibernian FC, that we now learn all that time just 1 team was cheating, that that team won most available, & now, from inaction, our current people in charge feel, without an explanation, what we feel now is irrelevant. If I think about that time, those players they had, that they did not pay correct taxes for therefore giving them a superior winning team, if I think of that to much it's painful for me. Remembering games & days devastated, so close, now knowing they were cheating, I want, not financially, but emotionally, reimbursing. From my team.


Easy on the commas there Major!

[surreyhibbie]

Still waiting on Traceyhibs getting back to us. Not sure if the supporters reps are representing us to the board or the board to us.


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Never really been sure what the point of the Reps was, to be honest.

That's not a personal criticism, they obviously want to provide a service to their fellow supporters but if they are not allowed to communicate for whatever reason, seems a waste of their efforts.

[Ozyhibby]

Declan?? [emoji23]
https://stv.tv/sport/football/1396698-rangers-close-in-on-deal-for-cardiff-defender-declan-john/



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[Ozyhibby]

https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20170830/581048276b81320a8a13353d0d0b6996.jpg


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[ancient hibee]

"He's going to see his brother.The priest."

[Siralbertkidd]

Good time to slip out bad news while everyone is focussed on the transfer thread......

[Basildon Hibs]

Is there any news on Dave 'Pontoon Eyes' King and his upcoming grilling/massive fine from the Financial Authorities?
This is regarding his refusal to make an offer to completely take over the control of the Govan Reichstag as he's reached a 30% shareholding and must make an offer for the rest of the shambles.:confused:

It's all gone very quiet. Maybe CWG can throw some light on the matter? :confused:

[Iggy Pope]

Not sure why Tracey is getting all the stick, we appointed two reps? Both promised to be seen more frequently on sites like this before the vote, one has disappeared off the face of the social media earth?

No real surprise to me.

:wink: I wouldn't know one of the reps if she landed in my soup. The other rep I would know as he's landed in everyone's soup at one time or another. I'm sure he would provide an update, if asked, directly. At any game. He's pretty easy to spot. He makes sure of it!

[marinello59]

:wink: I wouldn't know one of the reps if she landed in my soup. The other rep I would know as he's landed in everyone's soup at one time or another. I'm sure he would provide an update, if asked, directly. At any game. He's pretty easy to spot. He makes sure of it!

He did promise to play a more prominent role on the forums/social media etc. Maybe him and Tracey have come to some agreement with her more happy to take that on but there has been no sign of him here for a while.
It's a thankless task no matter how they split the workload though.

[CropleyWasGod]

Is there any news on Dave 'Pontoon Eyes' King and his upcoming grilling/massive fine from the Financial Authorities?
This is regarding his refusal to make an offer to completely take over the control of the Govan Reichstag as he's reached a 30% shareholding and must make an offer for the rest of the shambles.:confused:

It's all gone very quiet. Maybe CWG can throw some light on the matter? :confused:The FCA have started action in the Court of Session to force him to comply.

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[fat freddy]

The FCA have started action in the Court of Session to force him to comply.

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And if he cant afford to make an offer for the remaining shares what are the implications?

I've read the Johnjames articles on this but his optimistic views on Kings fate never seem to come to very much. I get the feeling that the wheels turn slowly and Johnjames imagined that justice would be swift

[Baldy Foghorn]

He did promise to play a more prominent role on the forums/social media etc. Maybe him and Tracey have come to some agreement with her more happy to take that on but there has been no sign of him here for a while.
It's a thankless task no matter how they split the workload though.

Think they work in tandem, although Tracey puts out the communications on social media, as joint statements

[Keith_M]

"Rangers is a new club"

"Naw, we urny"

-------------------

"Strip them o' thur titles"

"Naw, ye cannae"

-------------------

"We need a statement outlining our club's position"

"...[silence]..."

-------------------


Pointlessly repeat ad-infinitum or just forget about it and move on.

[Siralbertkidd]

Think they work in tandem, although Tracey puts out the communications on social media, as joint statements

- HMRC Tax case - due to the amount of supporters who have raised this on the many different forums we will be taking this to the board meeting on 31st July. There is no stalling on this it's just that's when the next board meeting.

That is direct quote from Traceyhibs after fans meeting with reps on 15/07/17, 50 days ago.

I for one am not for "moving on" without having explored all avenues.

[CropleyWasGod]

And if he cant afford to make an offer for the remaining shares what are the implications?

I've read the Johnjames articles on this but his optimistic views on Kings fate never seem to come to very much. I get the feeling that the wheels turn slowly and Johnjames imagined that justice would be swiftI would have thought sequestration would be the natural consequence.

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[Baldy Foghorn]

- HMRC Tax case - due to the amount of supporters who have raised this on the many different forums we will be taking this to the board meeting on 31st July. There is no stalling on this it's just that's when the next board meeting.

That is direct quote from Traceyhibs after fans meeting with reps on 15/07/17, 50 days ago.

I for one am not for "moving on" without having explored all avenues.

Thnk you missed the point of my post

[Siralbertkidd]

Thnk you missed the point of my post

Maybe, I was attempting to show that although the fans reps were meant to be pushing this for the fans, neither have contributed to the discussion on here for close on two months now.

[Jack Hackett]

Maybe, I was attempting to show that although the fans reps were meant to be pushing this for the fans, neither have contributed to the discussion on here for close on two months now.

Tracey's last post on the subject was on 13th Aug. I also see from her profile that she has been on this thread today.

Are you under orders Tracey? A simple yes/no would suffice.

[Ronniekirk]

Maybe, I was attempting to show that although the fans reps were meant to be pushing this for the fans, neither have contributed to the discussion on here for close on two months now.

Think the Club should be putting out a statement to explain the delay and confirm when one will be made
The Silence is baffling


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[kaimendhibs]

http://www.heraldscotland.com/news/15511510.Police_officer_probed_over_claim_he_told_ Orange_Order___39_Nazi__39__complainant_to_focus_o n_ex_Celtic_boss_Neil_Lennon/

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[Jack Hackett]

http://www.heraldscotland.com/news/15511510.Police_officer_probed_over_claim_he_told_ Orange_Order___39_Nazi__39__complainant_to_focus_o n_ex_Celtic_boss_Neil_Lennon/

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Move along! Nothing to see here :rolleyes:


... which of course, sums up the entire Sevco saga

[Bishop Hibee]

http://www.heraldscotland.com/news/15511510.Police_officer_probed_over_claim_he_told_ Orange_Order___39_Nazi__39__complainant_to_focus_o n_ex_Celtic_boss_Neil_Lennon/

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Yet people who claimed their was a vendetta against Hibs fans at the cup final were called paranoid. The behaviour of those of a bluenose persuasion grows bolder all the time.

[matty_f]

http://www.heraldscotland.com/news/15511510.Police_officer_probed_over_claim_he_told_ Orange_Order___39_Nazi__39__complainant_to_focus_o n_ex_Celtic_boss_Neil_Lennon/

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That is ****ing outrageous.

[MrSmith]

That article is one of the recent examples of why we must make a stand asap!

[marinello59]

http://www.heraldscotland.com/news/15511510.Police_officer_probed_over_claim_he_told_ Orange_Order___39_Nazi__39__complainant_to_focus_o n_ex_Celtic_boss_Neil_Lennon/

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I'm not surprised at this at all, not after the cup final witch hunts.

[Iggy Pope]

Airdrie Orange hall (an establishment older Hibbies will remember the stench of walking past). Or two kids dressed up as victims of the holocaust. Can't describe which is the more disgusting. I hate these *******s. The worrying thing is these kids will be allowed to grow up.

[Jack Hackett]

Airdrie Orange hall (an establishment older Hibbies will remember the stench of walking past). Or two kids dressed up as victims of the holocaust. Can't describe which is the more disgusting. I hate these *******s. The worrying thing is these kids will be allowed to grow up.

... not to mention have kids of their own. The cycle continues

[green day]

Airdrie Orange hall (an establishment older Hibbies will remember the stench of walking past). Or two kids dressed up as victims of the holocaust. Can't describe which is the more disgusting. I hate these *******s. The worrying thing is these kids will be allowed to grow up.

Sure I saw it on Trainspotting 2 :greengrin:greengrin

[The Modfather]

For all the fantastic things Dempster has achieved so far, it does seem to me that she is happy to join Petrie's stance of "sporting integrity" and listening to the fans when it suits and doesn't rock the boat at the SFA gravy train. How many examples of sectarian abuse did we encounter under Stubbs alone from The Rangers, never mind under Neil Lennon, where the club just swept it under the carpet.

The fans reps also appear to only be fans reps when it comes to representing us on the easy stuff.

I may be wide if the mark on both counts,, but all I can conclude from the usual wall of silence on certain subjects.

[Ozyhibby]

For all the fantastic things Dempster has achieved so far, it does seem to me that she is happy to join Petrie's stance of "sporting integrity" and listening to the fans when it suits and doesn't rock the boat at the SFA gravy train. How many examples of sectarian abuse did we encounter under Stubbs alone from The Rangers, never mind under Neil Lennon, where the club just swept it under the carpet.

The fans reps also appear to only be fans reps when it comes to representing us on the easy stuff.

I may be wide if the mark on both counts,, but all I can conclude from the usual wall of silence on certain subjects.

You'll no doubt hear from them at the next election.


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[marinello59]

For all the fantastic things Dempster has achieved so far, it does seem to me that she is happy to join Petrie's stance of "sporting integrity" and listening to the fans when it suits and doesn't rock the boat at the SFA gravy train. How many examples of sectarian abuse did we encounter under Stubbs alone from The Rangers, never mind under Neil Lennon, where the club just swept it under the carpet.

The fans reps also appear to only be fans reps when it comes to representing us on the easy stuff.

I may be wide if the mark on both counts,, but all I can conclude from the usual wall of silence on certain subjects.

That's pretty unfair on the reps and the club. The club can't simply produce a statement mirroring the agenda of a couple of Celtic FC blogs which is what some here seem to be demanding. If they come out with anything less than demanding that titles be stripped then it simply will not satisfy some. The club have swept nothing under the carpet, they have made their representations in a measured and business like manner
It may be that Tracey is being silent because herself and Frank want a stronger statment than is proposed to be released or it may be that they realise that they simply can't win on this one. We know that the isssue was raised at board level by them, that doesn't mean they can get a proposed course of action voted through.
Sevco and Celtic were so far ahead of us financially at the time of the EBT's it was frightening. Sevco got even greedier and fixed what was effectively a two horse race, hence the reason that those shouting the loudest are Celtic minded bloggers. I really hope our club does better than follow them.

[lapsedhibee]

That's pretty unfair on the reps and the club. The club can't simply produce a statement mirroring the agenda of a couple of Celtic FC blogs which is what some here seem to be demanding. If they come out with anything less than demanding that titles be stripped then it simply will not satisfy some. The club have swept nothing under the carpet, they have made their representations in a measured and business like manner
It may be that Tracey is being silent because herself and Frank want a stronger statment than is proposed to be released or it may be that they realise that they simply can't win on this one. We know that the isssue was raised at board level by them, that doesn't mean they can get a proposed course of action voted through.
Sevco and Celtic were so far ahead of us financially at the time of the EBT's it was frightening. Sevco got even greedier and fixed what was effectively a two horse race, hence the reason that those shouting the loudest are Celtic minded bloggers. I really hope our club does better than follow them.

What would be better?

[Just Alf]

That's pretty unfair on the reps and the club. The club can't simply produce a statement mirroring the agenda of a couple of Celtic FC blogs which is what some here seem to be demanding. If they come out with anything less than demanding that titles be stripped then it simply will not satisfy some. The club have swept nothing under the carpet, they have made their representations in a measured and business like manner
It may be that Tracey is being silent because herself and Frank want a stronger statment than is proposed to be released or it may be that they realise that they simply can't win on this one. We know that the isssue was raised at board level by them, that doesn't mean they can get a proposed course of action voted through.
Sevco and Celtic were so far ahead of us financially at the time of the EBT's it was frightening. Sevco got even greedier and fixed what was effectively a two horse race, hence the reason that those shouting the loudest are Celtic minded bloggers. I really hope our club does better than follow them.Very sensible post.... I've been adamant for a long time that they need some form of reprimand, even just wee stars in the records of the impacted years.... Simply to shut up the Rangers fans who to this day crow about their achievement and deny anything underhand helped them to get there.

It's looking like even the wee stars ain't gonna happen so I'm now getting to the position I'm no longer bothered about it.

That probably what the big wigs want I guess :-(



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[Ozyhibby]

That's pretty unfair on the reps and the club. The club can't simply produce a statement mirroring the agenda of a couple of Celtic FC blogs which is what some here seem to be demanding. If they come out with anything less than demanding that titles be stripped then it simply will not satisfy some. The club have swept nothing under the carpet, they have made their representations in a measured and business like manner
It may be that Tracey is being silent because herself and Frank want a stronger statment than is proposed to be released or it may be that they realise that they simply can't win on this one. We know that the isssue was raised at board level by them, that doesn't mean they can get a proposed course of action voted through.
Sevco and Celtic were so far ahead of us financially at the time of the EBT's it was frightening. Sevco got even greedier and fixed what was effectively a two horse race, hence the reason that those shouting the loudest are Celtic minded bloggers. I really hope our club does better than follow them.

It's not good though if the fans reps just ignore the fans if the issue is a bit difficult for them.
The fact is, we were told a statement would be issued. That it had been agreed at board level. Were we being lied to? Were our fans reps lied to? If a course of action is agreed at board level, why has it not happened?
These are all fairly legitimate questions to ask.
The game in Scotland is run by the clubs and therefore we have to question our clubs when we see something that looks wrong.


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[marinello59]

What would be better?

Anything that doesn't merely pander to the desire of Celtic bloggers and others driven more by the desire to give Sevco another kicking than anything else. Please don't come back with "sporting integrity." If that was the major driving force then every other club in the land would have demanded further punishment for Hearts. Apart from us nobody really gave a toss.

[Skol]

It's not good though if the fans reps just ignore the fans if the issue is a bit difficult for them.
The fact is, we were told a statement would be issued. That it had been agreed at board level. Were we being lied to? Were our fans reps lied to? If a course of action is agreed at board level, why has it not happened?
These are all fairly legitimate questions to ask.
The game in Scotland is run by the clubs and therefore we have to question our clubs when we see something that looks wrong.


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This is it entirely.

Clearly a statement is not being made now and the fans reps have been told not to talk about the reasons why. I agree it makes a mockery of having these reps and this comes on top of some doubts many had and which we were promised by some candidates would change.

I for one will not vote in these again unless there is a 'none of the above' option

[lapsedhibee]

Anything that doesn't merely pander to the desire of Celtic bloggers and others driven more by the desire to give Sevco another kicking than anything else. Please don't come back with "sporting integrity." If that was the major driving force then every other club in the land would have demanded further punishment for Hearts. Apart from us nobody really gave a toss.
I wouldn't particularly be bashing the phrase 'sporting integrity' about as that's Rod - or as the Celtc bloggers call him, Rob - Petrie's phrase. It's not really primarily about giving The Rongers a kicking - it's just that if NOTHING is done, as Ann Budgie and Stewart Milne appear to want, then I don't see how Scottish Fitba is really any different from professional wrestling.

[marinello59]

This is it entirely.

Clearly a statement is not being made now and the fans reps have been told not to talk about the reasons why. I agree it makes a mockery of having these reps and this comes on top of some doubts many had and which we were promised by some candidates would change.

I for one will not vote in these again unless there is a 'none of the above' option

They are board members so are bound by collective responsibility. That's different from being told not to talk about this.
My guess is the board had agreed to release a statement but there is no agreement on what that statement should say. Just a guess of course but it would mean nobody has lied.

[Ozyhibby]

They are board members so are bound by collective responsibility. That's different from being told not to talk about this.
My guess is the board had agreed to release a statement but there is no agreement on what that statement should say. Just a guess of course but it would mean nobody has lied.

I'd find it hard to believe the board agreed to release a statement but did not discuss the contents?
This is not really about Rangers. This is about the SFA failing to ensure the game is run fairly.


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[Baldy Foghorn]

I'd find it hard to believe the board agreed to release a statement but did not discuss the contents?
This is not really about Rangers. This is about the SFA failing to ensure the game is run fairly.


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If it is a Board statement, why are you hounding the reps for it? Are they just there to take the flak?

Maybe seek clarification from Chairman or CEO on the "stance"

[marinello59]

If it is a Board statement, why are you hounding the reps for it? Are they just there to take the flak?

Maybe seek clarification from Chairman or CEO on the "stance"

Well said. If anybody has to clarify what has happened here then it is the Chair.

[Blaster]

If it is a Board statement, why are you hounding the reps for it? Are they just there to take the flak?

Maybe seek clarification from Chairman or CEO on the "stance"

To be fair to ozy it was Tracey who came on here and said a statement was coming shortly. I think the least she could do would be to come on and say she is unable to make comment at the moment for whatever reason

I've made my point before that I think the club should be focussing on our future progress than making a statement on this. However think ozy is correct in expecting some sort of reply

[Baldy Foghorn]

To be fair to ozy it was Tracey who came on here and said a statement was coming shortly. I think the least she could do would be to come on and say she is unable to make comment at the moment for whatever reason

I've made my point before that I think the club should be focussing on our future progress than making a statement on this. However think ozy is correct in expecting some sort of reply

It's blatantly obviously that Hibs won't put a statement out now, and if they did, why would it come from fan's reps?

This would be a top level statement, not really what reps are to do....

[Blaster]

It's blatantly obviously that Hibs won't put a statement out now, and if they did, why would it come from fan's reps?

This would be a top level statement, not really what reps are to do....

Think you are missing the point. I don't believe ozy is expecting a statement about the issue from the reps. It was Tracey who advised one was being issued and stated so on here. Ozy is only asking for a response to that

Anyway I'm out as I never wanted a statement in the first place!!

[Baldy Foghorn]

Think you are missing the point. I don't believe ozy is expecting a statement about the issue from the reps. It was Tracey who advised one was being issued and stated so on here. Ozy is only asking for a response to that

Anyway I'm out as I never wanted a statement in the first place!!

Think the statement would be futile anyway Blaster, not sure what Hibs are meant to say....The powers that be, won't strip titles, as fans we have to suck it up.

[Blaster]

Think the statement would be futile anyway Blaster, not sure what Hibs are meant to say....The powers that be, won't strip titles, as fans we have to suck it up.

I agree mate. For me the spfl have asked for an independent review and I don't see the need for hibs to add anything further

[Skol]

I dont expect the fans rep to make a statement, but one of them did say a statement would be made by the club before the season starts and has then gone silent when asked why the statement hasnt been made,

For what its worth I think a statement would be pretty pointless anyway.

However, what we were told by the fans rep with the current silence is what irks me, especially when elected on a campaign of more open communication.

[Famous Fiver]

How dd Albion Rovers get kicked out of a cup for one minor indiscretion yet Rangers had players for years that were not properly registered and got kicked out of hee haw?

Something stinks.

[Baldy Foghorn]

How dd Albion Rovers get kicked out of a cup for one minor indiscretion yet Rangers had players for years that were not properly registered and got kicked out of hee haw?

Something stinks.

Because the powers that be run "our" game for two teams only. The rest are not relevant.

[marinello59]

How dd Albion Rovers get kicked out of a cup for one minor indiscretion yet Rangers had players for years that were not properly registered and got kicked out of hee haw?

Something stinks.

In Albion Rovers case it was a clear breach of the rules.
It's taken years to establish that EBTs were illegal and it is far from clear that they actually broke any rules as they stood a the time. I wish that wasn't the case but sadly it is.

[Ozyhibby]

Because the powers that be run "our" game for two teams only. The rest are not relevant.

Which is why people are asking questions. The clubs run our game, so it's up to us to ask why our club wants to just accept this.


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[Skol]

It is clear to everyone (although Rangers fans will deny it) that there is no need to strip titles as the only titles won by the Rangers are the three lower league titles which were won fairly and squarely.

Rangers can continue to claim as they please, but just look silly as a result

[blackpoolhibs]

In Albion Rovers case it was a clear breach of the rules.
It's taken years to establish that EBTs were illegal and it is far from clear that they actually broke any rules as they stood a the time. I wish that wasn't the case but sadly it is.

They hid the side letters at the time, which was as clear a breach of rules as you could get.

[Baldy Foghorn]

Which is why people are asking questions. The clubs run our game, so it's up to us to ask why our club wants to just accept this.


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That's something you will have to ask the Execs, not the volunteers

[marinello59]

They hid the side letters at the time, which was as clear a breach of rules as you could get.

Not at the time it wasn't. I'm not defending Sevco by the way. I wish Ibrox was flats now. :greengrin

[grunt]

Not at the time it wasn't. I'm not defending Sevco by the way. I wish Ibrox was flats now. :greengrin
Are you sure about that? Do you mean that at some point in the past it was ok to not report part of a player's remuneration to the SFA?

[stantonhibby]

Are you sure about that? Do you mean that at some point in the past it was ok to not report part of a player's remuneration to the SFA?

I assume he means that at the time it wasnt widely known about the side letters.

[grunt]

I assume he means that at the time it wasnt widely known about the side letters.That's kind of my point.

[blackpoolhibs]

I assume he means that at the time it wasnt widely known about the side letters.

The reason nobody knew about those side letters, was because they hid them. Rangers hid the side letters and was a clear breach of the rules AT THAT TIME.

[stantonhibby]

The reason nobody knew about those side letters, was because they hid them. Rangers hid the side letters and was a clear breach of the rules AT THAT TIME.

Yeah I know that.

[marinello59]

Are you sure about that? Do you mean that at some point in the past it was ok to not report part of a player's remuneration to the SFA?

No.
I mean it wasn't clear that was what had happened at the time.

[majorhibs]

The reason nobody knew about those side letters, was because they hid them. Rangers hid the side letters and was a clear breach of the rules AT THAT TIME.

How come even some of our ain still incredibly try to defend that? Guilty as sin! Everyone knows! You'd expect the guilty to try to deflect of course. But "Hibbies" that went to games to see gascoigne laudrup etc beating Hibs & they were only there because they were getting sneaky untaxed side payments, what exactly is the motivation in trying to to defend such breaches of the rules. SIDE LETTERS!

[Jack Hackett]

No.
I mean it wasn't clear that was what had happened at the time.

It is clear now though. The fact that they lied to hide a breach of the rules should not be time barred. Such a ruling would be a travesty of justice and renders the very existence of rules a farce.

[marinello59]

How come even some of our ain still incredibly try to defend that? Guilty as sin! Everyone knows! You'd expect the guilty to try to deflect of course. But "Hibbies" that went to games to see gascoigne laudrup etc beating Hibs & they were only there because they were getting sneaky untaxed side payments, what exactly is the motivation in trying to to defend such breaches of the rules. SIDE LETTERS!

I don't see anybody defending it.:confused:
Rangers and Celtic were financially well out of sight of us at that time without the EBTs. They fixed a two horse race. They cheated when they really didn't have to.

[Radium]

That's something you will have to ask the Execs, not the volunteers

A reasonable suggestion that perhaps lays bare the issue the Reps are facing.

Good PR and a route for fans to contact the club. Representation when others are not available.
But ultimately not part of the inner circle

Our Chairman is currently Vice President at the SFA, the organisation that has failed spectacularly in it's duty to look after the game. He is also the current chair of the Professional Game board. Given how poor (non existent would be another description) the SFAs response was to the EBT ruling I don't sit completely surprised at the silence from ER. We do have someone in a position of influence though.

ATM the Reps appear to been painted into a corner. Their next update will be scrutinised and if it contains nothing on this they will have been hung out to dry. The club could sort this with a statement, irrespective of how tepid.

A sad, and unintended consequence of this seems to be that the updates from the Reps has stopped.

I do think that this situation should moderate any expectations around an HSL director as well - exercising the voting rights will be HSLs strongest card.

Part of the reason I think there is a need for scrutiny, is that I am yet to be convinced that there is anything in place to effectively deal with clubs that live beyond their means.

As an aside, Doncaster made a big play of being prepared to meet fans groups to discuss the SPFL position. Have we had any groups contacted?




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[Ozyhibby]

I don't see anybody defending it.:confused:
Rangers and Celtic were financially well out of sight of us at that time without the EBTs. They fixed a two horse race. They cheated when they really didn't have to.

Look how beatable the new club are without the ebt's. We need to make sure they can never do it again. We can only do that by finding out how they got away with it in the first place and strengthening the rules.


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[marinello59]

Look how beatable the new club are without the ebt's. We need to make sure they can never do it again. We can only do that by finding out how they got away with it in the first place and strengthening the rules.


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They're beatable because they were relegated and have failed to rebuild. You can't compare the Rangers team back then and Sevco today.
I totally agree, the priority has to be making what they did a clear breach of the rules. They got away with it because they saw a loophole and exploited it.

[ballengeich]

Rangers were found guilty of not registering players correctly so there were rules in place. Lord Nimmo-Smith's commission fined them £250,000 for it. The question is why the commission thought a fine was appropriate when other clubs, most recently Albion Rovers, have been kicked out of tournaments for minor mistakes in registration.

Rangers' punishment was the equivalent of a thief who's stolen £10,000 being fined £250 and being allowed to keep the stolen goods.

[lapsedhibee]

They're beatable because they were relegated and have failed to rebuild. You can't compare the Rangers team back then and Sevco today.
I totally agree, the priority has to be making what they did a clear breach of the rules. They got away with it because they saw a loophole and exploited it.

You're having an off day today M59.

[Ozyhibby]

They're beatable because they were relegated and have failed to rebuild. You can't compare the Rangers team back then and Sevco today.
I totally agree, the priority has to be making what they did a clear breach of the rules. They got away with it because they saw a loophole and exploited it.

There was no loophole. It was against the rules to pay players outside their contract.


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[marinello59]

There was no loophole. It was against the rules to pay players outside their contract.


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But who knew at the time that was what EBT's were doing? Rangers weren't the only club to use them.
Actually I don't know why I am still in this conversation. I was only trying to go give reasons for the club and supporters directors silence. :greengrin

[majorhibs]

I don't see anybody defending it.:confused:
Rangers and Celtic were financially well out of sight of us at that time without the EBTs. They fixed a two horse race. They cheated when they really didn't have to.

You are defending it, & we all know they were cheating. Why?

[marinello59]

You are defending it, & we all know they were cheating. Why?

Point out where I am defending it. I've given reasons why I think it's not easy for the club to issue a statement aligned with those of a few Celtic bloggers. I have defended nothing.

[Crazyhorse]

There was no loophole. It was against the rules to pay players outside their contract.


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This has always been the key point. The broke the rules and they knew they were breaking the rules. They were then subsequently caught, just as many cheats in other sports have been caught after the event, and like those other cheats they should now be punished for that cheating by having the prizes they won taken away.
The current sevco are irrelevant in all this. It is the Rangers which were liquidated in 2012 which should be punished. It is a bit like discovering a dead Olympic athlete who won gold was actually a drugs cheat, the IOC would still strip them of their gold medal.

[grunt]

You're having an off day today M59.

:)


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[marinello59]

You're having an off day today M59.

Ozy's post suggested if they hadn't used EBTs they would have been easily beatable back then, much as they are now. That's not true. Even without the EBTs they would have been miles ahead of us. They cheated to win their two horse race with Celtic.

[majorhibs]

They're beatable because they were relegated and have failed to rebuild. You can't compare the Rangers team back then and Sevco today.
I totally agree, the priority has to be making what they did a clear breach of the rules. They got away with it because they saw a loophole and exploited it.
No! No! No! The priority is NOT what you think! If even 1 X Hibs fan is disgruntled because they paid money to watch their team for 10 years try to win, while another team cheated sneakily & won most of the honours because of that cheating, ( & Dinnae come back wi any nonsense please, they had players so far out of reach of ALL our league, because they paid them EBTs, but got caught because of SIDE LETTERS) so please go back in your box because there is A LOT more than 1 disgruntled fan resentful at having been cheated for 10 years, who will not come close to closure until the right thing is done here. & your references earlier to celtic blogs & nonsense earlier is shameful! Personally I think of only Hibs & the damage done to Hibs here. I do not think I am alone in that! But you crack on with your agenda & brand folk at odds with YOUR views why don't you.

[marinello59]

No! No! No! The priority is NOT what you think! If even 1 X Hibs fan is disgruntled because they paid money to watch their team for 10 years try to win, while another team cheated sneakily & won most of the honours because of that cheating, ( & Dinnae come back wi any nonsense please, they had players so far out of reach of ALL our league, because they paid them EBTs, but got caught because of SIDE LETTERS) so please go back in your box because there is A LOT more than 1 disgruntled fan resentful at having been cheated for 10 years, who will not come close to closure until the right thing is done here. & your references earlier to celtic blogs & nonsense earlier is shameful! Personally I think of only Hibs & the damage done to Hibs here. I do not think I am alone in that! But you crack on with your agenda & brand folk at odds with YOUR views why don't you.

I have no agenda. I'd love the see the titles gone. I'd love to see the whole club gone. It's not that simple though and as I have already said I posted in defence of the club reps.
I'll respect your opinion though, no need for you to get back in your box. :greengrin

[jacomo]

Ozy's post suggested if they hadn't used EBTs they would have been easily beatable back then, much as they are now. That's not true. Even without the EBTs they would have been miles ahead of us. They cheated to win their two horse race with Celtic.


This is not relevant. Other clubs have been thrown out of competitions for fielding an ineligible player, whether or not that gave them an advantage.

Rangers have defended use of EBTs because they say other clubs could have used them. That's highly debatable.

Failure to declare their use of EBTs (i.e. The side letters) is not debatable. They clearly hid them from the SFA / SPL. This is against the rules and therefore those players were ineligible, no?

[kaimendhibs]

No! No! No! The priority is NOT what you think! If even 1 X Hibs fan is disgruntled because they paid money to watch their team for 10 years try to win, while another team cheated sneakily & won most of the honours because of that cheating, ( & Dinnae come back wi any nonsense please, they had players so far out of reach of ALL our league, because they paid them EBTs, but got caught because of SIDE LETTERS) so please go back in your box because there is A LOT more than 1 disgruntled fan resentful at having been cheated for 10 years, who will not come close to closure until the right thing is done here. & your references earlier to celtic blogs & nonsense earlier is shameful! Personally I think of only Hibs & the damage done to Hibs here. I do not think I am alone in that! But you crack on with your agenda & brand folk at odds with YOUR views why don't you.Well said Sir. Loads of ifs, whats ans mibbes but they cheated, pure and simple and should be punished

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[MrSmith]

As I said a few posts ago, we live in an era were we can retrospectively claim back all sorts of finance from banks and insurance companies who added on little extras many, many years ago. We as fans, in good faith, bought season tickets, cup tickets, match day programmes, snacks, drinks and merchandising in the hope that we could compete on the field fairly. It was rigged and unfair on all levels. Fans should now have a mechanism put in place to ensure a) these titles won by Rangers are deemed null and void or b) claim back the monies (hard earned cash) through mis-selling of a fixed and rigged product of which so many were complicit in conning fans.

Selling snake oil, has many medicinal properties. Only $20 a bottle!

[HIGHLANDLEITHER]

First post,long time lurker. I was an IFA for many years. We wouldn't touch EBT's as we always felt they were likely to be questioned and HMRC wouldn't be clear on whether they were acceptable. What they did make clear was that they could not be for a particular individual and that payments to the trust could not be by regular instalments. The side letters meant that they would fail HMRC's rules from day one. There can be no dispute that they failed the SFA's own rules despite Sandy Bryson's imperfectly registered nonsense.When others say that other clubs had EBT's do they know how they were run? The only other club that I know to have an EBT was Celtic and they cancelled it and settled with HMRC.There may have been others in Scotland but the point is that Rangers EBT's were never correctly operated and in David Murrays and Alec McLeish own words allowed them to sign players they would not have been able to otherwise. When Rangers played Hibs at Easter Road , I think in 2003,to win the league, everyone of their players and manager was on an EBT.
Twice Rangers denied having side letters when asked by the SFA and they only came to light when the Metropolitan police were investigating the transfer of Boumsong.Why would they deny there existence if they did not know they were illegal from a tax aspect and from the SFA rules.

[Keith_M]

But who knew at the time that was what EBT's were doing? Rangers weren't the only club to use them.
Actually I don't know why I am still in this conversation. I was only trying to go give reasons for the club and supporters directors silence. :greengrin


Side letters not declared to the SFA, which would indicate Rangers themselves had a fair inkling they were breaking rules.

[Ozyhibby]

First post,long time lurker. I was an IFA for many years. We wouldn't touch EBT's as we always felt they were likely to be questioned and HMRC wouldn't be clear on whether they were acceptable. What they did make clear was that they could not be for a particular individual and that payments to the trust could not be by regular instalments. The side letters meant that they would fail HMRC's rules from day one. There can be no dispute that they failed the SFA's own rules despite Sandy Bryson's imperfectly registered nonsense.When others say that other clubs had EBT's do they know how they were run? The only other club that I know to have an EBT was Celtic and they cancelled it and settled with HMRC.There may have been others in Scotland but the point is that Rangers EBT's were never correctly operated and in David Murrays and Alec McLeish own words allowed them to sign players they would not have been able to otherwise. When Rangers played Hibs at Easter Road , I think in 2003,to win the league, everyone of their players and manager was on an EBT.
Twice Rangers denied having side letters when asked by the SFA and they only came to light when the Metropolitan police were investigating the transfer of Boumsong.Why would they deny there existence if they did not know they were illegal from a tax aspect and from the SFA rules.

And still silence from Hibs.


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[Smartie]

Whilst we have 13,000 season ticket holders the Hibs board will have no interest in any of this. There will be no statements, no standpoint and no sporting integrity.

As long as the football club chairmen are getting your money they assume you're happy and if you think they give a 5hit what you think then you're sadly deluded.

If we had struggled on the park over the past couple of seasons and we were now playing in front of 5000 every week, Petrie would be all over this.


That is why I'm conflicted over this. There is so much that the Hibs board are doing that is good and deserving of support right now, but this silence and inaction is maddening. It is deeply disrespectful towards those of us who dug deep to watch a rigged contest for so many years.

The silence of the fans reps makes a mockery of their position. It was an idea that I liked but I think poor Tracey has been hung out to dry here.

Needless to say, I think most of the blame lies at the feet of our mischievous moustachioed friend, who I think is in it up to his neck as a result of the 5-way agreement etc.

[marinello59]

Side letters not declared to the SFA, which would indicate Rangers themselves had a fair inkling they were breaking rules.

Again, I'm not defending Rangers. I'm giving possible reasons why Hibs have not released a statement. None of this is the fans reps fault, demanding they come on here to explain themselves is unfair. They have done what was asked of them and taken it to the board.

[lord bunberry]

And still silence from Hibs.


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I feel quite sorry for Tracey on this matter. She must've been told by the board that a statement was going to be released and then for whatever reason it wasn't. I'm assuming that she has now been told not to say anymore on the subject. It seems she has been hung out to dry by the board.
This is the reason that fans reps don't really work imo.

[JeMeSouviens]

Again, I'm not defending Rangers. I'm giving possible reasons why Hibs have not released a statement. None of this is the fans reps fault, demanding they come on here to explain themselves is unfair. They have done what was asked of them and taken it to the board.

Demanding the fans reps influence the board to make the sort of statement we as fans (well the vast majority) would make would be unfair. Feeding back if the board are taking any sort of position on this at all is hardly unfair though?

[Bostonhibby]

I feel quite sorry for Tracey on this matter. She must've been told by the board that a statement was going to be released and then for whatever reason it wasn't. I'm assuming that she has now been told not to say anymore on the subject. It seems she has been hung out to dry by the board.
This is the reason that fans reps don't really work imo.I think this is the likely scenario.

The directors badge can mean the rep is stuck in the middle. The alternative is to break ranks and share what you know about the subject with the fans regardless.

Fans issues are the only reason they're on the board but probably wouldn't be afterwards!

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[ancient hibee]

And what statement would the vast majority of fans make and how have you ascertained it ?

[hibeerealist]

Whilst we have 13,000 season ticket holders the Hibs board will have no interest in any of this. There will be no statements, no standpoint and no sporting integrity.

As long as the football club chairmen are getting your money they assume you're happy and if you think they give a 5hit what you think then you're sadly deluded.

If we had struggled on the park over the past couple of seasons and we were playing in front of 5000 every week, Petrie would be all over this.


That is why I'm conflicted over this. There is so much that the Hibs board are doing that is good and deserving of support right now, but this silence and inaction is maddening. It is deeply disrespectful towards those of us who dug deep to watch a rigged contest for so many years.

The silence of the fans reps makes a mockery of their position. It was an idea that I liked but I think poor Tracey has been hung out to dry here.

Needless to say, I think most of the blame lies at the feet of our mischievous moustachioed friend, who I think is in it up to his neck as a result of the 5-way agreement etc.

This is obviously a delicate subject, I am interested as to what you think Hibs should do? What if there has been "off the record" chats between the other clubs (in the league) and there is little or no support for cranking up the case against TRFC do you believe HFC should go it alone?

Maybe, just maybe, HFC & CFC take the view that this is not finished but you must take the other clubs with you in order to get the job done properly and how many of the others would be up for that?

Messy situation that the authorities should have dealt with

[Smartie]

I feel quite sorry for Tracey on this matter. She must've been told by the board that a statement was going to be released and then for whatever reason it wasn't. I'm assuming that she has now been told not to say anymore on the subject. It seems she has been hung out to dry by the board.
This is the reason that fans reps don't really work imo.

She has absolutely been hung out to dry.

If at the board meeting the board's agreed position was "Petrie's in this up to his neck, we heard the severe and real threats that Sevconians made against Raith Rovers a few years ago and have no desire to see ER being burned down. We have £££££££ in the bank from our fans therefore we are not going to rock the boat right now thank you very much," then Tracey would have kept quiet and not come on here saying a statement was to be made. Clearly that is not what was decided at the board meeting so Tracey was within her rights to come on here and tell us a statement was likely to be made.

An about-turn somewhere has clearly been made which clearly suits the board's agenda, but it makes Tracey look daft and makes us all wonder whether or not there is any point in having fans reps at all.

[Smartie]

This is obviously a delicate subject, I am interested as to what you think Hibs should do? What if there has been "off the record" chats between the other clubs (in the league) and there is little or no support for cranking up the case against TRFC do you believe HFC should go it alone?

Maybe, just maybe, HFC & CFC take the view that this is not finished but you must take the other clubs with you in order to get the job done properly and how many of the others would be up for that?

Messy situation that the authorities should have dealt with

I think that Hibs (as a club who led the way with cutting their cloth and living within their means) should make a statement backing demands for an inquiry into Scottish football governance and whether our current authorities are fit for purpose. I think they should loudly question whether or not this has been the case over the past couple of decades.

I think they should demand that this be rigorous, but that rather than being a witch-hunt, we should be prepared to acknowledge and possibly even forgive, for the good of our game.

I don't think they should demand title-stripping, I think they should emphasise that we need confidence that our game is clean and that rules will be enforced on all teams equally so that we can all "move on".

[Keith_M]

And what statement would the vast majority of fans make and how have you ascertained it ?

How about this...


"The position of Hibernian Football Club is that Sporting Integrity is essential within Football. When rules are broken, the punishment has to be the same, and seen to be the same, no matter which club is guilty of breaking those rules. It is completely unacceptable that the rules of football should be applied in a different way to different clubs, otherwise there is no Integrity

It is an incontrovertible fact that if one club has been ejected from a competition for a simple Administrative Error in regard to player registrations, as happened to Albion Rovers, Spartans and others, then another club that knowingly and wilfully withheld information regarding player registrations, must also be punished to the same extent, regardless of the size or reputation of that club.

It is a known fact that Rangers Football Club withheld that type of information over a number of years, and representatives of that club, when questioned, denied doing so. As this information was not known outside that particular football club at the time of the 'offences', it could not be dealt with immediately in regards to expulsion from the competitions in which they invalidly participated. However, that does not mean that an equivalent punishment cannot be made retrospectively, in this instance any titles won by that club in competitions in which it was competing whilst (knowingly) breaking the rules must be stripped from that club.

Hibernian Football Club also wholeheartedly supports the idea of a truly independent investigation into the SFA and SPL/SPFL to establish what was known of those rule breaches, when and by whom. Only then can we be confident that all clubs are operating within a level playing field, an absolute essential for our game"

[JimBHibees]

How about this...


"The position of Hibernian Football Club is that Sporting Integrity is essential within Football. When rules are broken, the punishment has to be the same, and seen to be the same, no matter which club is guilty of breaking those rules. It is completely unacceptable that the rules of football should be applied in a different way to different clubs, otherwise there is no Integrity

It is an incontrovertible fact that if one club has been ejected from a competition for a simple Administrative Error in regard to player registrations, as happened to Albion Rovers, Spartans and others, then another club that knowingly and wilfully withheld information regarding player registrations, must also be punished to the same extent, regardless of the size or reputation of that club.

It is a known fact that Rangers Football Club withheld that type of information over a number of years, and representatives of that club, when questioned, denied doing so. As this information was not known outside that particular football club at the time of the 'offences', it could not be dealt with immediately in regards to expulsion from the competitions in which they invalidly participated. However, that does not mean that an equivalent punishment cannot be made retrospectively, in this instance any titles won by that club in competitions in which is was competing whilst (knowingly) breaking the rules must be stripped from that club.

Hibernian Football Club also wholeheartedly supports the idea of a truly independent investigation into the SFA and SPL/SPFL to establish what was known of those rule breaches, when and by whom. Only then can we be confident that all clubs are operating within a level playing field, an absolute essential for our game"

Sounds great just put Rod's name at the bottom and fire it out there I am sure he wont mind. :greengrin

[Bostonhibby]

How about this...


"The position of Hibernian Football Club is that Sporting Integrity is essential within Football. When rules are broken, the punishment has to be the same, and seen to be the same, no matter which club is guilty of breaking those rules. It is completely unacceptable that the rules of football should be applied in a different way to different clubs, otherwise there is no Integrity

It is an incontrovertible fact that if one club has been ejected from a competition for a simple Administrative Error in regard to player registrations, as happened to Albion Rovers, Spartans and others, then another club that knowingly and wilfully withheld information regarding player registrations, must also be punished to the same extent, regardless of the size or reputation of that club.

It is a known fact that Rangers Football Club withheld that type of information over a number of years, and representatives of that club, when questioned, denied doing so. As this information was not known outside that particular football club at the time of the 'offences', it could not be dealt with immediately in regards to expulsion from the competitions in which they invalidly participated. However, that does not mean that an equivalent punishment cannot be made retrospectively, in this instance any titles won by that club in competitions in which is was competing whilst (knowingly) breaking the rules must be stripped from that club.

Hibernian Football Club also wholeheartedly supports the idea of a truly independent investigation into the SFA and SPL/SPFL to establish what was known of those rule breaches, when and by whom. Only then can we be confident that all clubs are operating within a level playing field, an absolute essential for our game"

:aok: In line with my thinking all throughout this saga, not much has happened recently to change my view.

I am beginning to flag a bit on this one sadly as I think the clubs who are signed up to the 5 way agreement and the officials generally who are party to the cover up are intending to close ranks and face any criticism down.

Our clubs position on sporting integrity was put out there by RP and when we were advised the club was formalising a position and would be putting a statement out there I don't think anyone is being unreasonable by asking what has happened to it. Once we know the position on that we can each decide if we believe the club has sent the right message or not and if our own view of justice has been served, or if the fans of Scottish football have been played by those who run it, again.

[Argylehibby]

When the last Working Together meeting was held the Board Meeting had taken place that morning. I'm sure I wasn't the only one who had contacted the fans reps ahead of the board meeting to ask them to raise the Rangers position following the HMRC verdict at the Board Meeting which it duly was.

At the WT meeting it was confirmed (not by the 2 fans reps) the situation had been discussed and that a statement would be made. We were due to play at Ibrox at the weekend and it was felt the club statement would be made before then. Having attended the Board Meeting and the WT meeting where this statement of intent was made it is not surprising that Tracey commented publically as she did.

I have no idea what changed between the WT meeting and the visit to Ibrox but clearly something did. The usual claims on here of "it must be Petrie's doing" don't add up. He would have chaired the meeting and even if he didn't agree to the statement the fact that at least 3 people who were at the Board Meeting felt comfortable that one was going to be made suggests he had to be onside with that course of action. As I said I have no idea what has changed but I'd guess, given the complete silence that it is on legal advice. I would be stunned if the club were to issue a statement which could / would be construed as criticising another club, (ignore the OldCo / NewCo argument for now), accusing them of cheating, criticising the governing body for the sport, calling into question a decision by Lord Nimmo Smith and 2 QC's without first seeking legal advise. If having done that, the advice they received was to shut up then that's what they would have done. It may also be the reason why Tracey has gone completely silent on the matter.

I agree with those that think Tracey has been hung out to dry here and that some follow up response should have been made. If my feeling that it's legal advice which is preventing a statement then she should have been provided with something to close this off even if it was simply something like "that for reasons I cannot go into there will be no statement by the club and I cannot discuss it any further".

I of course may be miles off the Mark with this theory.

[Ozyhibby]

How about this...


"The position of Hibernian Football Club is that Sporting Integrity is essential within Football. When rules are broken, the punishment has to be the same, and seen to be the same, no matter which club is guilty of breaking those rules. It is completely unacceptable that the rules of football should be applied in a different way to different clubs, otherwise there is no Integrity

It is an incontrovertible fact that if one club has been ejected from a competition for a simple Administrative Error in regard to player registrations, as happened to Albion Rovers, Spartans and others, then another club that knowingly and wilfully withheld information regarding player registrations, must also be punished to the same extent, regardless of the size or reputation of that club.

It is a known fact that Rangers Football Club withheld that type of information over a number of years, and representatives of that club, when questioned, denied doing so. As this information was not known outside that particular football club at the time of the 'offences', it could not be dealt with immediately in regards to expulsion from the competitions in which they invalidly participated. However, that does not mean that an equivalent punishment cannot be made retrospectively, in this instance any titles won by that club in competitions in which is was competing whilst (knowingly) breaking the rules must be stripped from that club.

Hibernian Football Club also wholeheartedly supports the idea of a truly independent investigation into the SFA and SPL/SPFL to establish what was known of those rule breaches, when and by whom. Only then can we be confident that all clubs are operating within a level playing field, an absolute essential for our game"

If only.....



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[Jack]

Maybe the club has been 'gagged' by the SFA and/or SPFL pending their investigation or the judicial review?

By gagged I mean the club's that haven't said anything have been asked not to say anything publicly until these things are complete.

[Deansy]

First post,long time lurker. I was an IFA for many years. We wouldn't touch EBT's as we always felt they were likely to be questioned and HMRC wouldn't be clear on whether they were acceptable. What they did make clear was that they could not be for a particular individual and that payments to the trust could not be by regular instalments. The side letters meant that they would fail HMRC's rules from day one. There can be no dispute that they failed the SFA's own rules despite Sandy Bryson's imperfectly registered nonsense.When others say that other clubs had EBT's do they know how they were run? The only other club that I know to have an EBT was Celtic and they cancelled it and settled with HMRC.There may have been others in Scotland but the point is that Rangers EBT's were never correctly operated and in David Murrays and Alec McLeish own words allowed them to sign players they would not have been able to otherwise. When Rangers played Hibs at Easter Road , I think in 2003,to win the league, everyone of their players and manager was on an EBT.
Twice Rangers denied having side letters when asked by the SFA and they only came to light when the Metropolitan police were investigating the transfer of Boumsong.Why would they deny there existence if they did not know they were illegal from a tax aspect and from the SFA rules.

Great first post and echo's my own thoughts on this sordid affair - a sordid affair that's 100% the responsibility of the Hun and no-one else !. They cheated - they know it and so does everyone else - including their own fans. And all that's happened since they were caught is both the club and it's fans have embarked on a long, systematic course of bullying, threatening and intimidation and so far it's worked !. Scottish Football must NOT give in to them any longer and as the GFA are bent/incompetent/biased it's up to the clubs to do something. It surely can't be beyond Hibs/Petrie to organise a 'quiet meeting' with the chairmen/owners of the other SPL clubs to see where they stand and, if possible, issue a joint statement that all have agreed to ??. Because if nothing is done then the Huns black-cloud will hang over our game for ever more !

[JeMeSouviens]

And what statement would the vast majority of fans make and how have you ascertained it ?

I have mind reading powers.

How about:

"Hibernian FC notes the verdict of the Supreme Court finding the use of Employee Benefit Trusts (EBTs) by the Rangers Football Club plc to remunerate its staff, including players, during the years 2000-2010 to have been an illegal method of tax avoidance. Furthermore, we note that the assumption underpinning Lord Nimmo Smith's finding, namely that the use of EBTs conferred "no sporting advantage" has been seriously undermined."

[Andy74]

How about this...


"The position of Hibernian Football Club is that Sporting Integrity is essential within Football. When rules are broken, the punishment has to be the same, and seen to be the same, no matter which club is guilty of breaking those rules. It is completely unacceptable that the rules of football should be applied in a different way to different clubs, otherwise there is no Integrity

It is an incontrovertible fact that if one club has been ejected from a competition for a simple Administrative Error in regard to player registrations, as happened to Albion Rovers, Spartans and others, then another club that knowingly and wilfully withheld information regarding player registrations, must also be punished to the same extent, regardless of the size or reputation of that club.

It is a known fact that Rangers Football Club withheld that type of information over a number of years, and representatives of that club, when questioned, denied doing so. As this information was not known outside that particular football club at the time of the 'offences', it could not be dealt with immediately in regards to expulsion from the competitions in which they invalidly participated. However, that does not mean that an equivalent punishment cannot be made retrospectively, in this instance any titles won by that club in competitions in which it was competing whilst (knowingly) breaking the rules must be stripped from that club.

Hibernian Football Club also wholeheartedly supports the idea of a truly independent investigation into the SFA and SPL/SPFL to establish what was known of those rule breaches, when and by whom. Only then can we be confident that all clubs are operating within a level playing field, an absolute essential for our game"

It was my understanding that the rules in place at the time were so limited that the independent legal advice is that nothing else could be done, so any reference to breaches of rules and comparing punishments is totally pointless.

[Andy74]

When the last Working Together meeting was held the Board Meeting had taken place that morning. I'm sure I wasn't the only one who had contacted the fans reps ahead of the board meeting to ask them to raise the Rangers position following the HMRC verdict at the Board Meeting which it duly was.

At the WT meeting it was confirmed (not by the 2 fans reps) the situation had been discussed and that a statement would be made. We were due to play at Ibrox at the weekend and it was felt the club statement would be made before then. Having attended the Board Meeting and the WT meeting where this statement of intent was made it is not surprising that Tracey commented publically as she did.

I have no idea what changed between the WT meeting and the visit to Ibrox but clearly something did. The usual claims on here of "it must be Petrie's doing" don't add up. He would have chaired the meeting and even if he didn't agree to the statement the fact that at least 3 people who were at the Board Meeting felt comfortable that one was going to be made suggests he had to be onside with that course of action. As I said I have no idea what has changed but I'd guess, given the complete silence that it is on legal advice. I would be stunned if the club were to issue a statement which could / would be construed as criticising another club, (ignore the OldCo / NewCo argument for now), accusing them of cheating, criticising the governing body for the sport, calling into question a decision by Lord Nimmo Smith and 2 QC's without first seeking legal advise. If having done that, the advice they received was to shut up then that's what they would have done. It may also be the reason why Tracey has gone completely silent on the matter.

I agree with those that think Tracey has been hung out to dry here and that some follow up response should have been made. If my feeling that it's legal advice which is preventing a statement then she should have been provided with something to close this off even if it was simply something like "that for reasons I cannot go into there will be no statement by the club and I cannot discuss it any further".

I of course may be miles off the Mark with this theory.

It is a good example of why the fans on board thing doesn't really work - there can be a rush to communicate something that really should be left in the boardroom.

[Tornadoes70]

It was my understanding that the rules in place at the time were so limited that the independent legal advice is that nothing else could be done, so any reference to breaches of rules and comparing punishments is totally pointless.

I'd be very surprised indeed nay shocked if rules then did not include expulsion from tournaments for improperly registered players.

[ballengeich]

It was my understanding that the rules in place at the time were so limited that the independent legal advice is that nothing else could be done, so any reference to breaches of rules and comparing punishments is totally pointless.

My understanding is that it's not that nothing else could have been done at the time, but that the SPFL have found a lawyer who's told them it's now too late to challenge the decision of Lord Nimmo-Smith. There's a supporters' group somewhere (mainly Celtic) that's getting legal advice on whether a judicial review of this and other football authority actions can be undertaken.

It would be interesting to hear what Lord N-S now thinks about his commission's verdict in light of the Supreme Court verdict on the EBTs. Unfortunately there doesn't seem to be a journalist in Scotland with sufficient curiosity to pick up a phone and try to find out.

[MrSmith]

I have mind reading powers.

How about:

"Hibernian FC notes the verdict of the Supreme Court finding the use of Employee Benefit Trusts (EBTs) by the Rangers Football Club plc to remunerate its staff, including players, during the years 2000-2010 to have been an illegal method of tax avoidance. Furthermore, we note that the assumption underpinning Lord Nimmo Smith's finding, namely that the use of EBTs conferred "no sporting advantage" has been seriously undermined."

With this in mind, Hibernian Football Club welcome the Judicial Review and will comply with complete transparency on these matters.

[ancient hibee]

I have mind reading powers.

How about:

"Hibernian FC notes the verdict of the Supreme Court finding the use of Employee Benefit Trusts (EBTs) by the Rangers Football Club plc to remunerate its staff, including players, during the years 2000-2010 to have been an illegal method of tax avoidance. Furthermore, we note that the assumption underpinning Lord Nimmo Smith's finding, namely that the use of EBTs conferred "no sporting advantage" has been seriously undermined."


I would say that's very good.Measured and doesn't make wild claims on behalf of Hibs fans many of whom couldn't care less.

[Tornadoes70]

With this in mind, Hibernian Football Club welcome the Judicial Review and will comply with complete transparency on these matters.

Absolutely.

I sincerely hope the titles are stripped and the game can move on with a new ethos of fairness by demonstrating there are no clubs that can act out-with the rules that the other clubs are bound by.

[jacomo]

It was my understanding that the rules in place at the time were so limited that the independent legal advice is that nothing else could be done, so any reference to breaches of rules and comparing punishments is totally pointless.


Rangers EBTs were 2001-2010.

In Jan 2010 Dunfy were thrown out of Scottish Cup for fielding ineligible players:

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/sport/football/competitions/scottish-premier/6989662/Dunfermline-kicked-out-of-Scottish-Cup-for-breaches-of-competition-rules.html

The SFA's position is, at best, bafflingly inconsistent.

I think the legal advice they are relying on is that they asked LNS to deal with this and they can't revisit it.

But of course - the purpose of the LNS review was to try and make this all go away. Even judges at the time disagreed.

[JeMeSouviens]

I would say that's very good.Measured and doesn't make wild claims on behalf of Hibs fans many of whom couldn't care less.

Cheers.

[Keith_M]

It was my understanding that the rules in place at the time were so limited that the independent legal advice is that nothing else could be done, so any reference to breaches of rules and comparing punishments is totally pointless.


Side letters, covered up by Rangers, leading to improperly registered players

They willingly broke the rules. Where's the confusion?

[weecounty hibby]

Side letters, covered up by Rangers, leading to improperly registered players

They willingly broke the rules. Where's the confusion?

The confusion comes in when there is a complicit media, a judicial system that helps the establishment i.e the rangers, governing bodies who are afraid to challenge one of the cartel that they helped create and now fans of other clubs saying that we should just forget about the cheating. If we let it go then nothing will ever change in Scottish football

[Thecat23]

Side letters, covered up by Rangers, leading to improperly registered players

They willingly broke the rules. Where's the confusion?

Exactly. Folk saying "let it go there is no more that can be done" is a huge worry. Yeah let's just give up because the rules back then were *****. Sorry but if all clubs applied huge pressure on the SFA more could and should be done.

As I say I include my own club on this, but everyone is **** scared of the Huns and it's that attitude that allows them to do what they like. I hope they get stripped of titles in fact in hope they ****ing die.

[silverhibee]

Exactly. Folk saying "let it go there is no more that can be done" is a huge worry. Yeah let's just give up because the rules back then were *****. Sorry but if all clubs applied huge pressure on the SFA more could and should be done.

As I say I include my own club on this, but everyone is **** scared of the Huns and it's that attitude that allows them to do what they like. I hope they get stripped of titles in fact in hope they ****ing die.

I'm with you on this Shirley, clubs or anyone involved in cheating in Scottish football should be punished, doesn't matter how long ago it happened or what they done, which brings me on to this, footballers and others who have been involved in betting on games in Scotland, not so long ago this happened, (http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/39864684) a player and Chairman of Scottish clubs were charged with placing bets on games from 2011 to 2017, if the SFA are willing to punish folk who do this for gain who have tried to hide it from the SfA for a number of years until they were caught, then why can't the SFA pursue The Rangers and hand out a fitting punishment to them for something they hid many years ago.

It worries me that other owners of clubs in Scotland seem to just want to sweep this under the carpet and move on as if nothing happened.

[Thecat23]

I'm with you on this Shirley, clubs or anyone involved in cheating in Scottish football should be punished, doesn't matter how long ago it happened or what they done, which brings me on to this, footballers and others who have been involved in betting on games in Scotland, not so long ago this happened, (http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/39864684) a player and Chairman of Scottish clubs were charged with placing bets on games from 2011 to 2017, if the SFA are willing to punish folk who do this for gain who have tried to hide it from the SfA for a number of years until they were caught, then why can't the SFA pursue The Rangers and hand out a fitting punishment to them for something they hid many years ago.

It worries me that other owners of clubs in Scotland seem to just want to sweep this under the carpet and move on as if nothing happened.

Exactly Silver, why would any fan at any club in Scotland have the attitude of well let's leave it as the lawyers say we can do no more. Utter bull****. If clubs all stuck together and refused to play them until a proper investigation was done with the proper outcome.

Get these cheating ******** to ****.

[Ozyhibby]

Still nothing from Traceyhibs? Checks the thread everyday but chooses not to reply. Not really how she sold herself during the election.


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[Spike Mandela]

Imagine if the SFA or SPFL governed the game as stringently as this......

http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/41118927

A bit harsh but letter of the law applied, maybe something worked out on appeal. Correct way for o do things?

[Ozyhibby]

Imagine if the SFA or SPFL governed the game as stringently as this......

http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/41118927

A bit harsh but letter of the law applied, maybe something worked out on appeal. Correct way for o do things?

Absolutely it is the correct way to do things.
Instead in Scotland we have the SFA deliberately delaying the registration of players so that they can't play against Rangers.


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[Deansy]

My understanding is that it's not that nothing else could have been done at the time, but that the SPFL have found a lawyer who's told them it's now too late to challenge the decision of Lord Nimmo-Smith. There's a supporters' group somewhere (mainly Celtic) that's getting legal advice on whether a judicial review of this and other football authority actions can be undertaken.

It would be interesting to hear what Lord N-S now thinks about his commission's verdict in light of the Supreme Court verdict on the EBTs. Unfortunately there doesn't seem to be a journalist in Scotland with sufficient curiosity to pick up a phone and try to find out.

I've been wondering that as well - how does LNS feels knowing that the SFA/Campbell Ogilvie basically stitched him up OR was he part of the master-plan all along ??. Either way, he must know his name's mud as far as the football-fan fraternity goes !

[Ozyhibby]

https://johnjamessite.com/
Hibs.net content.


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[Joe6-2]

I'm with you on this Shirley, clubs or anyone involved in cheating in Scottish football should be punished, doesn't matter how long ago it happened or what they done, which brings me on to this, footballers and others who have been involved in betting on games in Scotland, not so long ago this happened, (http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/39864684) a player and Chairman of Scottish clubs were charged with placing bets on games from 2011 to 2017, if the SFA are willing to punish folk who do this for gain who have tried to hide it from the SfA for a number of years until they were caught, then why can't the SFA pursue The Rangers and hand out a fitting punishment to them for something they hid many years ago.

It worries me that other owners of clubs in Scotland seem to just want to sweep this under the carpet and move on as if nothing happened.

Is it the old crap, we need a strong (the) rangers?

[blackpoolhibs]

Still nothing from Traceyhibs? Checks the thread everyday but chooses not to reply. Not really how she sold herself during the election.


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Stitched up by Hibs and the other rep, leaving her to take all the flack.

[oldbutdim]

https://johnjamessite.com/
Hibs.net content.


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"If Hibs.net want to effect real change the first thing they should do is to petition Leeann Dempster to sack Petrie. He is one of the principal architects of the cover-up."

:confused:


Crikey!

Leeann sacking Rodders!

[Ozyhibby]

"If Hibs.net want to effect real change the first thing they should do is to petition Leeann Dempster to sack Petrie. He is one of the principal architects of the cover-up."

:confused:


Crikey!

Leeann sacking Rodders!

He does talk mince right enough. He's not wrong on the silence coming from Hibs though.


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[Ozyhibby]

Stitched up by Hibs and the other rep, leaving her to take all the flack.

She can only be stitched up by Hibs if she is willing to be.



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[Baldy Foghorn]

Stitched up by Hibs and the other rep, leaving her to take all the flack.

:faf::faf:

Stitched up by the other rep???? Funny that, as they are in constant dialogue......:rolleyes:

[Iain G]

"If Hibs.net want to effect real change the first thing they should do is to petition Leeann Dempster to sack Petrie. He is one of the principal architects of the cover-up."

:confused:


Crikey!

Leeann sacking Rodders!

He talks a lot of p!$h that boy! Nice to know he is reading .net though and then spinning it all into his own little paranoid delusion.... :greengrin

[Ozyhibby]

:faf::faf:

Stitched up by the other rep???? Funny that, as they are in constant dialogue......:rolleyes:

So it's a joint decision to ignore the fans?


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[Argylehibby]

She can only be stitched up by Hibs if she is willing to be.



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Not quite true. If she has advice from outside the club to say nothing either for the benefit of the club or for her personally she would follow that advice. Stepping down from the board wouldn't change that either.

[Ozyhibby]

Not quite true. If she has advice from outside the club to say nothing either for the benefit of the club or for her personally she would follow that advice. Stepping down from the board wouldn't change that either.

For advice to go that far, then we are dealing with something worse than we thought.
These are not state secrets we are dealing with, it's about a football club communicating with its supporters it's views on protecting the integrity of the game. Are we just to accept that Rangers/Sevco are not to have the rules of the game applied to them?


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[Baldy Foghorn]

So it's a joint decision to ignore the fans?


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Think they will have been told to keep quiet, as opposed to ignoring fans......

[marinello59]

He talks a lot of p!$h that boy! Nice to know he is reading .net though and then spinning it all into his own little paranoid delusion.... :greengrin

Yet people still hang on his every word as if he has some sort of superior insight.

[Billy Whizz]

Think they will have been told to keep quiet, as opposed to ignoring fans......

Probably has, but it should be taken out of their hands now, unfair flack they are getting. The ones upstairs earning the big bucks should be addressing this, one way or another

[Keith_M]

I think the status of a Fans Rep is not to be a source of communication from the club to the Fans on every subject, but they're there to help ensure the Fans PoV is put forward to the Board.

I personally don't think it's their responsibility to be keeping us up-to-date with any statement on Sevco, and they probably have restrictions in place as to what they're allowed to communicate and when.

I think it must be a difficult role for the Fans Reps and I wouldn't fancy doing it.

------------------------------

On a related note; what happens if the club DO issue a statement, to the effect that we should forget all about it and just move on?

[Stonewall]

I think the status of a Fans Rep is not to be a source of communication from the club to the Fans on every subject, but they're there to help ensure the Fans PoV is put forward to the Board.

I personally don't think it's their responsibility to be keeping us up-to-date with any statement on Sevco, and they probably have restrictions in place as to what they're allowed to communicate and when.

I think it must be a difficult role for the Fans Reps and I wouldn't fancy doing it.

------------------------------

On a related note; what happens if the club DO issue a statement, to the effect that we should forget all about it and just move on?

Exactly.

If the board were to issue such a statement there would be a lot of noise on here, for a short period. At least we would know where we stand and be able to decide whether we are happy to continue to support a club where cheating is effectively condoned.

Anyway, who's to say that saying we should move on is not closer to the view of most Hibs' fans than the views of those of us who think it's an issue of fundamental importance which needs to be dealt with.

[Ozyhibby]

I think the status of a Fans Rep is not to be a source of communication from the club to the Fans on every subject, but they're there to help ensure the Fans PoV is put forward to the Board.

I personally don't think it's their responsibility to be keeping us up-to-date with any statement on Sevco, and they probably have restrictions in place as to what they're allowed to communicate and when.

I think it must be a difficult role for the Fans Reps and I wouldn't fancy doing it.

------------------------------

On a related note; what happens if the club DO issue a statement, to the effect that we should forget all about it and just move on?

Cross that bridge when we come to it.


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[Ozyhibby]

Think they will have been told to keep quiet, as opposed to ignoring fans......

They are ignoring the fans on here. If they have been told to keep quiet then they should say so. Their job is to communicate with the fans.


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[blackpoolhibs]

:faf::faf:

Stitched up by the other rep???? Funny that, as they are in constant dialogue......:rolleyes:

He promised he'd be more social media savvy when he wanted appointing again, he's disappeared of the face of the social media world as i expected he would.

At least Tracey has been seen here and other social media sites. She at least had the balls to do as she said she would, and kept her word.

He's been nowhere near and left her to face the flack.

[BenjiOscar]

I received a call from a representative of Hibs on the evening of Tuesday 1st August asking why I had not renewed my season ticket at point. It was an amiable discussion and a few issues were covered. One of these was concerning the situation at Ibrox and I was told that a statement was due shortly from the club. Now 5 weeks later and still nothing.

I can only presume that something has happened amongst the board members which is preventing the statement being made. Unable to agree on what actions, if any, are to be sought?

It appears there was definitely the intention to issue a statement given the club representative was allowed to say as much during the call.

[Velma Dinkley]

If anyone thinks that the sport in Scotland can "move on" without the authorities dealing with Rangers' extensive and unprecedented cheating then they are off their rocker. Nobody will have any confidence in the authorities preventing it from happening again or dealing with it fairly, as per the rules, if it does happen again. Because they didn't prevent Rangers from doing it and have chosen not to deal with it fairly as per the rules. The whole thing's a corrupt farce and the people who should be dealing with it are a huge part of the problem.

[Baker9]

"If Hibs.net want to effect real change the first thing they should do is to petition Leeann Dempster to sack Petrie. He is one of the principal architects of the cover-up."

:confused:


Crikey!

Leeann sacking Rodders!

Great idea - should have happened years ago.

[marinello59]

Great idea - should have happened years ago.

When the agenda for some Hibs fans is being set by paranoid Celtic bloggers the lunatics really have taken over the asylum.

[Baldy Foghorn]

He promised he'd be more social media savvy when he wanted appointing again, he's disappeared of the face of the social media world as i expected he would.

At least Tracey has been seen here and other social media sites. She at least had the balls to do as she said she would, and kept her word.

He's been nowhere near and left her to face the flack.

They work in tandem re social media.

He hasn't hung Tracey out to dry. Trust you will say this to him next time you see him?

[FilipinoHibs]

When the agenda for some Hibs fans is being set by paranoid Celtic bloggers the lunatics really have taken over the asylum.
I think we knew fans reps would be powerless and co-opted onto the board to keep fans appeased. Rangers like Hearts cheated and the trophies they won declared void. Motherwell, Dundee won nothing so nothing to be done there.

[Ozyhibby]

When the agenda for some Hibs fans is being set by paranoid Celtic bloggers the lunatics really have taken over the asylum.

Paranoid? Did Rangers not cheat? What am I missing?


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[marinello59]

Paranoid? Did Rangers not cheat? What am I missing?


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Where did I say Rangers didn't cheat? I criticised the blogger. Unless you think throwing our club in to turmoil as he suggests just as we are on the ascendency again is a good idea of course.

[Baker9]

When the agenda for some Hibs fans is being set by paranoid Celtic bloggers the lunatics really have taken over the asylum.

No idea what you mean about Celtic bloggers setting agendas. Nothing to do with my long-held view on Petrie.

[Spike Mandela]

Where did I say Rangers didn't cheat? I criticised the blogger. Unless you think throwing out club in to turmoil as he suggests just as we are going the ascendency again is a good idea of course.

Short termist thinking.

Our club may be on the up but we will have lots of ups and downs in the coming years. One thing that will remain consistent is that Rangers cheated and our authorities were unwilling to see a fair playing field and indeed conspired to ensure Rangers avoided any significant sanction whatsoever.

If a governing body can't govern the game then what is the point of it? Root and branch change is required and the likes of Petrie should be held to account.

[marinello59]

Short termist thinking.

Our club may be on the up but we will have lots of ups and downs in the coming years. One thing that will remain consistent is that Rangers cheated and our authorities were unwilling to see a fair playing field and indeed conspired to ensure Rangers avoided any significant sanction whatsoever.

If a governing body can't govern the game then what is the point of it? Root and branch change is required and the likes of Petrie should be held to account.

Short termism? John James suggests that the solution is for Hibs fans to demand Petrie's head this morning and it's all ready seen as a great of idea.
So we have the fans reps in the firing line, a Celtic blogger with an agenda demanding we shout for Petrie's head via Dempster who no doubt will be next in line if she fails to comply. Meanwhile if Hibs do not issue a statement pre-judging any enquiry and demand that titles be stripped they are complicit in Rangers cheating. As are any fans who are just not that interested in all this and just enjoy going to the
fitba.
It might not be quite at the mob mentality stage yet but it's getting there.

[blackpoolhibs]

They work in tandem re social media.

He hasn't hung Tracey out to dry. Trust you will say this to him next time you see him?


:faf: 10/10.

[Iain G]

At least we would know where we stand and be able to decide whether we are happy to continue to support a club where cheating is effectively condoned.

.

I think the answer to this is always yes of course we will still support Hibs? Why would this change anything regarding how we feel about our club?! :confused:

[Iain G]

Short termism? John James suggests that the solution is for Hibs fans to demand Petrie's head this morning and it's all ready seen as a great of idea.
So we have the fans reps in the firing line, a Celtic blogger with an agenda demanding we shout for Petrie's head via Dempster who no doubt will be next in line if she fails to comply. Meanwhile if Hibs do not issue a statement pre-judging any enquiry and demand that titles be stripped they are complicit in Rangers cheating. As are any fans who are just not that interested in all this and just enjoy going to the
fitba.
It might not be quite at the mob mentality stage yet but it's getting there.

I never trust anyone with interchangable first and surnames, it's just not right :greengrin

[Spike Mandela]

Short termism? John James suggests that the solution is for Hibs fans to demand Petrie's head this morning and it's all ready seen as a great of idea.
So we have the fans reps in the firing line, a Celtic blogger with an agenda demanding we shout for Petrie's head via Dempster who no doubt will be next in line if she fails to comply. Meanwhile if Hibs do not issue a statement pre-judging any enquiry and demand that titles be stripped they are complicit in Rangers cheating. As are any fans who are just not that interested in all this and just enjoy going to the
fitba.
It might not be quite at the mob mentality stage yet but it's getting there.

Haven't read John James.

My view on Petrie has been the same since he was the weasly go between for Stewart Regan to cut a deal with Charles Green via the 5 way agreement whilst at the same time happy to cultivate the myth that his agenda was to see sporting integrity protected.

If you are happy to ignore it all and move on that's up to you and I respect your right to say so. I on the other hand feel passionately that Rangers and the spineless governing authorities are held to account and don't need a Celtic blogger or indeed any .netter telling me what I should or shouldn't do.

[marinello59]

Haven't read John James.

My view on Petrie has been the same since he was the weasly go between for Stewart Regan to cut a deal with Charles Green via the 5 way agreement whilst at the same time happy to cultivate the myth that his agenda was to see sporting integrity protected.

If you are happy to ignore it all and move on that's up to you and I respect your right to say so. I on the other hand feel passionately that Rangers and the spineless governing authorities are held to account and don't need a Celtic blogger or indeed any .netter telling me what I should or shouldn't do.

I haven't said that either.

[green day]

The vast majority of my mates are Hibs fans. One or two Celtic fans and a couple of Sheep.

When we get together, I can say with 100% certainty that the subject of Rangers and stripping titles / how outraged anyone is has never come up.

I am not saying we are entirely representative, but we are more interested in how Hibs are doing on the field and I dont hear any chat about anything to do with oldco Huns, never mind complaints about a lack of any club statement from Hibs on this matter.

Messageboards and Twitter allow small factions a loud voice (which is fine, free speech and all that) - but simply because those with no great opinion either way cannae be arsed writing lengthy / ranty pieces doesnt mean those with a loud voice are right or must get their own way.

People like JJ have a cheek suggesting that Hibs.net should do anything - I bet he sees nothing wrong with the disgraceful sections of the Celtic support but wants us to do something about his pet subject - well he can **** right off.

[JeMeSouviens]

Short termism? John James suggests that the solution is for Hibs fans to demand Petrie's head this morning and it's all ready seen as a great of idea.
So we have the fans reps in the firing line, a Celtic blogger with an agenda demanding we shout for Petrie's head via Dempster who no doubt will be next in line if she fails to comply. Meanwhile if Hibs do not issue a statement pre-judging any enquiry and demand that titles be stripped they are complicit in Rangers cheating. As are any fans who are just not that interested in all this and just enjoy going to the
fitba.
It might not be quite at the mob mentality stage yet but it's getting there.

I don't think anyone has taken JJ seriously for what feels like decades. :wink: Has he stopped claiming to be a Hun yet? :greengrin

[ancient hibee]

I haven't said that either.

No but that won"t stop posters on here saying you have:greengrin

[Spike Mandela]

I haven't said that either.

Ok marinello, I haven't read your every utterance on the issue but is it fair to say at least that you are an apologist for the club taking the stance of ignoring it and moving on?

Just out of (genuine)interest, what is your view on how things should proceed now that the Supreme court has declared the Rangers use of EBT's illegal and the governing authorities refusal to revisit the discredited LNS report? Do you back a judicial review?

[Ozyhibby]

Short termism? John James suggests that the solution is for Hibs fans to demand Petrie's head this morning and it's all ready seen as a great of idea.
So we have the fans reps in the firing line, a Celtic blogger with an agenda demanding we shout for Petrie's head via Dempster who no doubt will be next in line if she fails to comply. Meanwhile if Hibs do not issue a statement pre-judging any enquiry and demand that titles be stripped they are complicit in Rangers cheating. As are any fans who are just not that interested in all this and just enjoy going to the
fitba.
It might not be quite at the mob mentality stage yet but it's getting there.

We are not asking Hibs to pre judge anything. There is no enquiry to pre judge. We are asking Hibs to let us know the clubs stance on whether there should be an enquiry.
Not sure where you get the impression that anyone takes John James seriously? He's a fantasist.
This was major league cheating in Scottish Football that the authorities are trying to cover up, I don't think it's unreasonable for fans to question that.


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[silverhibee]

When the agenda for some Hibs fans is being set by paranoid Celtic bloggers the lunatics really have taken over the asylum.

Think that agenda was set long before any Celtc bloggers suggested it.

[Deansy]

https://johnjamessite.com/
Hibs.net content.


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'The bombast of the Rangers supporters must be arrested. The cult of ‘We Are The People’ supremacy must be cut short'

'Supremacy built on a web of cheating cannot be allowed to stand'


Have to admit, that is perfectly worded !

[Billy Whizz]

We are not asking Hibs to pre judge anything. There is no enquiry to pre judge. We are asking Hibs to let us know the clubs stance on whether there should be an enquiry.
Not sure where you get the impression that anyone takes John James seriously? He's a fantasist.
This was major league cheating in Scottish Football that the authorities are trying to cover up, I don't think it's unreasonable for fans to question that.


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Remind me what was Petrie's role in all of this. Is he up to his neck in it?

[Ozyhibby]

The vast majority of my mates are Hibs fans. One or two Celtic fans and a couple of Sheep.

When we get together, I can say with 100% certainty that the subject of Rangers and stripping titles / how outraged anyone is has never come up.

I am not saying we are entirely representative, but we are more interested in how Hibs are doing on the field and I dont hear any chat about anything to do with oldco Huns, never mind complaints about a lack of any club statement from Hibs on this matter.

Messageboards and Twitter allow small factions a loud voice (which is fine, free speech and all that) - but simply because those with no great opinion either way cannae be arsed writing lengthy / ranty pieces doesnt mean those with a loud voice are right or must get their own way.

People like JJ have a cheek suggesting that Hibs.net should do anything - I bet he sees nothing wrong with the disgraceful sections of the Celtic support but wants us to do something about his pet subject - well he can **** right off.

It's NEVER came up? Seriously? Did nobody even ask what happened to that Rangers club we used to play against in 2013? Not one of you seen the Panarama program? Heard of dual contracts?
What do you talk about? Strictly team tactics, line ups etc?
[emoji23]


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[green day]

It's NEVER came up? Seriously? Did nobody even ask what happened to that Rangers club we used to play against in 2013? Not one of you seen the Panarama program? Heard of dual contracts?
What do you talk about? Strictly team tactics, line ups etc?
[emoji23]


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No its not a subject we currently talk about, I dont think thats a tricky concept to grasp?

As to your questions, clearly we all know what happened to the club we used to play against - they went bust and the new club were reinstated to the bottom tier, other clubs were complicit in this decision. I am certain that all of us saw the programme and discussed it at the time, but we moved on, and yep we have heard of dual contracts.

As to what we talk about, whats that got to do with the price of cheese - one thing we dont do is whip ourselves into a frenzy about the huns.

My main point is that you seem to think its an affront to everything decent if others either disagree or just dont really think ranting about it is worth their time.

I asked a month or so back on this same thread what people wanted to happen (some wanted asterisks placed against records, others wanted some different unspecified sanction against unspecified people).

Given that none of you can even agree what "sanctions" you want to impose on a club that doesnt currently exist, I cant fathom what you realistically expect Hibs to say that wouldnt have some people frothing at the mouth!!!

Finally, Its good you think its ok to take the piss out of me for having a different opinion - kinda makes my point for me :wink:.

[marinello59]

We are not asking Hibs to pre judge anything. There is no enquiry to pre judge. We are asking Hibs to let us know the clubs stance on whether there should be an enquiry.
Not sure where you get the impression that anyone takes John James seriously? He's a fantasist.
This was major league cheating in Scottish Football that the authorities are trying to cover up, I don't think it's unreasonable for fans to question that.


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You take him seriously enough to post links to his ramblings all the time.

[Ozyhibby]

You take him seriously enough to post links to his ramblings all the time.

I rarely post links to JJ. Only reason I came across that one was that his tweet mentioned Petrie which piqued my interest.


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[Ozyhibby]

No its not a subject we currently talk about, I dont think thats a tricky concept to grasp?

As to your questions, clearly we all know what happened to the club we used to play against - they went bust and the new club were reinstated to the bottom tier, other clubs were complicit in this decision. I am certain that all of us saw the programme and discussed it at the time, but we moved on, and yep we have heard of dual contracts.

As to what we talk about, whats that got to do with the price of cheese - one thing we dont do is whip ourselves into a frenzy about the huns.

My main point is that you seem to think its an affront to everything decent if others either disagree or just dont really think ranting about it is worth their time.

I asked a month or so back on this same thread what people wanted to happen (some wanted asterisks placed against records, others wanted some different unspecified sanction against unspecified people).

Given that none of you can even agree what "sanctions" you want to impose on a club that doesnt currently exist, I cant fathom what you realistically expect Hibs to say that wouldnt have some people frothing at the mouth!!!

Finally, Its good you think its ok to take the piss out of me for having a different opinion - kinda makes my point for me :wink:.

It's ok to have different opinions.
I only want a proper enquiry which is transparent to all. Whatever sanctions come from that I will accept. I think a judicial review is now the best hope for this but even that may not happen.
Trying to just pretend they did not cheat is an unsustainable position and Hibs complicity in this is a disgrace IMO.


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[HIGHLANDLEITHER]

The vast majority of my mates are Hibs fans. One or two Celtic fans and a couple of Sheep.

When we get together, I can say with 100% certainty that the subject of Rangers and stripping titles / how outraged anyone is has never come up.

I am not saying we are entirely representative, but we are more interested in how Hibs are doing on the field and I dont hear any chat about anything to do with oldco Huns, never mind complaints about a lack of any club statement from Hibs on this matter.

Messageboards and Twitter allow small factions a loud voice (which is fine, free speech and all that) - but simply because those with no great opinion either way cannae be arsed writing lengthy / ranty pieces doesnt mean those with a loud voice are right or must get their own way.

People like JJ have a cheek suggesting that Hibs.net should do anything - I bet he sees nothing wrong with the disgraceful sections of the Celtic support but wants us to do something about his pet subject - well he can **** right off.
Can't understand why you state you are only interested in what Hibs do on the pitch when the evidence from the CW trial and the Supreme Court proves that the players Rangers had on the pitch were there because their club broke the rules. I.e. It was not a level playing field. Ok Rangers fan base would mean that generally they could put out better teams but their board went beyond that and it lead to their own demise and other clubs spending beyond their means.
What is worst is our football authorities colluded in trying to cover up what happened.
Whilst we have some of the same people in charge of Scottish Football and 3 of the same directors currently running Rangers who were in charge previously,who can be sure that our game is being run any better.These people had the chance to put things right and have badly served Scottish Football and Rangers fans.

[Iain G]

It's ok to have different opinions.
I only want a proper enquiry which is transparent to all. Whatever sanctions come from that I will accept. I think a judicial review is now the best hope for this but even that may not happen.
Trying to just pretend they did not cheat is an unsustainable position and Hibs complicity in this is a disgrace IMO.


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Hibs are complicit how? Because no statement has been made (and why should they? Many clubs have said nothing to date) or because it suits your view of Rod Petrie?

I think the club should pass comment if they think it is worth commenting on but not getting knickers in a twist if they don't. I think that a further review should happen but realistic to not expect much and even if it does it will be watered down version of the blood and thunder everyone chasing this seems to want.

[marinello59]

It's ok to have different opinions.
I only want a proper enquiry which is transparent to all. Whatever sanctions come from that I will accept. I think a judicial review is now the best hope for this but even that may not happen.
Trying to just pretend they did not cheat is an unsustainable position and Hibs complicity in this is a disgrace IMO.


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Is Hibs complicity fact now then?

[green day]

Can't understand why you state you are only interested in what Hibs do on the pitch when the evidence from the CW trial and the Supreme Court proves that the players Rangers had on the pitch were there because their club broke the rules. I.e. It was not a level playing field. Ok Rangers fan base would mean that generally they could put out better teams but their board went beyond that and it lead to their own demise and other clubs spending beyond their means.
What is worst is our football authorities colluded in trying to cover up what happened.
Whilst we have some of the same people in charge of Scottish Football and 3 of the same directors currently running Rangers who were in charge previously,who can be sure that our game is being run any better.These people had the chance to put things right and have badly served Scottish Football and Rangers fans.

What I actually said was "......... but we are more interested in how Hibs are doing on the field and I dont hear any chat about anything to do with oldco Huns, never mind complaints about a lack of any club statement from Hibs on this matter."

I would be very interested if someone told me that because of the actions of the old club, we could shut the new one down - that would be comedy gold.

Sadly, it wont happen because its a different entity (regardless of what the "going for 55" huns say).

[marinello59]

Hibs are complicit how? Because no statement has been made (and why should they? Many clubs have said nothing to date) or because it suits your view of Rod Petrie?

I think the club should pass comment if they think it is worth commenting on but not getting knickers in a twist if they don't. I think that a further review should happen but realistic to not expect much and even if it does it will be watered down version of the blood and thunder everyone chasing this seems to want.

That's far too sensible. :greengrin

[jacomo]

We are not asking Hibs to pre judge anything. There is no enquiry to pre judge. We are asking Hibs to let us know the clubs stance on whether there should be an enquiry.
Not sure where you get the impression that anyone takes John James seriously? He's a fantasist.
This was major league cheating in Scottish Football that the authorities are trying to cover up, I don't think it's unreasonable for fans to question that.


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But there has been an inquiry. It was led by LNS and was unsatisfactory.

Quite why they decided to pick a judge with zero knowledge of football matters to decide on Rangers use of EBTs is of course a valid point.

But it does add some legal complexity.

[Ozyhibby]

If they are caught cheating again this year, should we just accept it again? Where do we draw the line?


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[Stonewall]

If they are caught cheating again this year, should we just accept it again? Where do we draw the line?


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They were granted a licence to play in Europe despite appearing to be in breach of FFP regulations.

[Iain G]

If they are caught cheating again this year, should we just accept it again? Where do we draw the line?


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That would be an entirely new issue Ozy and not related to the previous one and would and should be dealt with on its own merit, unless it is related to the prvious cheating issues.

[Ozyhibby]

They were granted a licence to play in Europe despite appearing to be in breach of FFP regulations.

They will be in breach of them again this year and this time it could be Hibs they pip for a potentially lucrative European slot.
Should we just move on while listening to Rod preach prudence to us? Right now they are putting players out on the pitch they can't afford and we are just letting them do it.


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[Ronniekirk]

They will be in breach of them again this year and this time it could be Hibs they pip for a potentially lucrative European slot.
Should we just move on while listening to Rod preach prudence to us? Right now they are putting players out on the pitch they can't afford and we are just letting them do it.


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The utterances from theRangers Hierarchy have made it clear they will continue to do what they are doing They clearly know nothing is going to happen or at worst s wrap on the knuckles and a wee fine
They will continue this until they get back into the Group Stages of European Football as Thats what they have planned for
Not getting past the early rounds this year must be a financial blow and i assume they will be assuming they will finish top three with second being the aim which again might not happen
The folk running the league have made it clear they needed The Rangers back in the Top Flight as soon as was possible .They were never going to take action that could jeopardise that imo
Now they are back they will be influencing decision makers
I have now lost all respect for them as a Club and Institution ,but we are kidding ourselves if we think there is an appetite to do anything further imo .
They just want it all forgotten about ,and for Clubs snd Fans to move on ,and us signing petitions and voicing continuing concern will just get brushed under the Carpet

This thread is keeping the issues alive ,but In reality most people have now accepted nothing further is going to happen



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[Velma Dinkley]

That would be an entirely new issue Ozy and not related to the previous one and would and should be dealt with on its own merit, unless it is related to the prvious cheating issues.

But why would it be dealt with if their previous cheating hasn't been dealt with?

[blackpoolhibs]

But why would it be dealt with if their previous cheating hasn't been dealt with?

:top marks

[Iain G]

But why would it be dealt with if their previous cheating hasn't been dealt with?

But their previous cheating has been dealt with through a whole bunch of things that saw them reform in the lowest league etc etc.

Previous issues did not go unpunished, they just didn't delve far enough for most folks.

Any new indiscretion will of course have to be dealt with as a separate incident given they are not the same club as previously.

[Callum_62]

I think theres an element of acceptance because Rangers could afford better players than the rest at that time anyway

Maybe not 40k p/w on Klos but still better plays

If Aberdeen done the same and won the league if would never be swept under the carpet.


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[malcolm]

They w

I have now lost all respect for them as a Club and Institution



Whereas many folk will have never had any to lose

[MrSmith]

If swept under the carpet and folks continue with the "move on" charade, I will move on! Right out of Scottish football and never put another penny into hibs.

Rangers cheated, simple as that! No fit and proper justice has been served upon the liquidated club plus it's filth, continues in the new club.

[Velma Dinkley]

But their previous cheating has been dealt with through a whole bunch of things that saw them reform in the lowest league etc etc.

Previous issues did not go unpunished, they just didn't delve far enough for most folks.

Any new indiscretion will of course have to be dealt with as a separate incident given they are not the same club as previously.

I think part of the problem is that a lot of people think Rangers' cheating has been dealt with because it has been said and parroted so often. Rangers fielding ineligible players for more than a decade has not been dealt with at all.

[Ozyhibby]

https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20170907/e11af2bf139ff22eda994c09a4e6086f.jpg
https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20170907/95ba42cb581c77515c023b9f9f877dc1.jpg



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[Iain G]

I think part of the problem is that a lot of people think Rangers' cheating has been dealt with because it has been said and parroted so often. Rangers fielding ineligible players for more than a decade has not been dealt with at all.

Is that club not dead and buried though? :confused:

[Ozyhibby]

https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20170907/e11af2bf139ff22eda994c09a4e6086f.jpg
https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20170907/95ba42cb581c77515c023b9f9f877dc1.jpg



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If the times have got this correct and Celtic have asked for a judicial review then this is very serious. A member club asking for this has to be taken seriously by the SFA and if it is refused Celtic can take it to CAS.
What's more important is that Celtic appear to want the rules changed going forward to stop clubs spending money they don't have and have some proper FFP rules in Scotland at last.
Hopefully Hibs agree but we don't know.


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[Ozyhibby]

Celtics letter to the SFA which has not been responded to yet.
https://videocelts.com/2017/09/blogs/latest-news/celtics-ebt-letter-to-the-sfa/

I'll get a copy of the times today so that I can read the full article.


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[JeMeSouviens]

Is that club not dead and buried though? :confused:

In reality, yes. But according to the SFA/SPFL we are supposed to pretend the New Huns are the same thing.

Anyway, irrespective of whether the New Huns are the Old Huns or not, the Old Huns cheated to win trophies and those wins should be declared null and void. It's unbelievable that this is even contentious tbh. :confused:

[Velma Dinkley]

Is that club not dead and buried though? :confused:

Then nobody will mind the rules being applied and titles being stripped 😉

[CropleyWasGod]

Is that club not dead and buried though? :confused:

The new club/old club debate is irrelevant to whether action should be taken, IMO.

[High-On-Hibs]

The new club/old club debate is irrelevant to whether action should be taken, IMO.

Indeed. They can't be the old club when it suits (i.e achievements), but a new club when it doesn't (i.e cheating).

[Iain G]

The new club/old club debate is irrelevant to whether action should be taken, IMO.

It is relevant if there are issues arising from any future "cheating" they are found guilty of, is it a first time offence or are they a repeat offender. :agree:

Anyway our manager has signed a 3 year contract so to hell with all this p!$h about the zombies :D

[Ozyhibby]

The new club/old club debate is irrelevant to whether action should be taken, IMO.

Agree.


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[CropleyWasGod]

It is relevant if there are issues arising from any future "cheating" they are found guilty of, is it a first time offence or are they a repeat offender. :agree:

Anyway our manager has signed a 3 year contract so to hell with all this p!$h about the zombies :D

It's not relevant to the issue at hand, which is their actions in the past.

[Iain G]

It's not relevant to the issue at hand, which is their actions in the past.

You know, I'm at a point where I am past caring, will it impact on the current Zombie Huns, no it won't. If something happens then great but if not, doesn't bother me now. Life is really too short to worry about those neanderthals especially with Hibs heading on the up.

If on the other hand they are found to be guilty of illegal underhand tactics now or in the future, and with a convicted crook as an owner then it's a fair chance, then we should make sure that we bring our influence to ensure they get punished accordingly to a level that fits the crime.

[Ozyhibby]

You know, I'm at a point where I am past caring, will it impact on the current Zombie Huns, no it won't. If something happens then great but if not, doesn't bother me now. Life is really too short to worry about those neanderthals especially with Hibs heading on the up.

If on the other hand they are found to be guilty of illegal underhand tactics now or in the future, and with a convicted crook as an owner then it's a fair chance, then we should make sure that we bring our influence to ensure they get punished accordingly to a level that fits the crime.

I've said it before, it's not so much about Rangers. It's about changing the SFA. It's about opening up everything that went on so much that changes to the way the game is governed is inevitable.
Title stripping will happen because that is the only logical place a proper enquiry could lead but that's not the real point of it.


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[Ozyhibby]

https://thecelticblog.com/2017/09/blogs/the-leak-of-celtics-2012-letter-to-the-sfa-is-the-last-warning-the-association-is-going-to-get/


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[Iain G]

I've said it before, it's not so much about Rangers. It's about changing the SFA. It's about opening up everything that went on so much that changes to the way the game is governed is inevitable.
Title stripping will happen because that is the only logical place a proper enquiry could lead but that's not the real point of it.


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I just don't think either of those things will happen.

The SFA/SPFL will continue on their usual merry way pandering to the old firm and not believing in the product they are supposed to promote and there will be no appetite to remove the titles.

[surreyhibbie]

I just don't think either of those things will happen.

The SFA/SPFL will continue on their usual merry way pandering to the old firm and not believing in the product they are supposed to promote and there will be no appetite to remove the titles.

I had that feeling as well, but it looks like Celtc are pursuing it still - see post from Ozy above, next step is UEFA I would imagine.

it ain't going away...

[Onion]

The new club/old club debate is irrelevant to whether action should be taken, IMO.

Absolutely. This is about fairness, integrity and abiding by the spirit and rules of the game. Whether it was Rangers, Sevco, Hibs or Alloa makes not a jot of difference to the fair application of the rules. It is therefore deeply troubling that the authorities who are there to uphold and promote appear to be ducking this issue simply because they are uncomfortable with who they are dealing with.

[Keith_M]

Are they 'deid yet'/'still deid'

[Ozyhibby]

I just don't think either of those things will happen.

The SFA/SPFL will continue on their usual merry way pandering to the old firm and not believing in the product they are supposed to promote and there will be no appetite to remove the titles.

They certainly won't happen if everyone just 'moves on'.


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[Ozyhibby]

Absolutely. This is about fairness, integrity and abiding by the spirit and rules of the game. Whether it was Rangers, Sevco, Hibs or Alloa makes not a jot of difference to the fair application of the rules. It is therefore deeply troubling that the authorities who are there to uphold and promote appear to be ducking this issue simply because they are uncomfortable with who they are dealing with.

I don't think it's who they are dealing with that is stopping them. I think they would gladly throw Rangers under a bus now but their own role in helping them is what is stopping them. Any proper enquiry will result in sacking at the SFA.


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[HoboHarry]

I don't think it's who they are dealing with that is stopping them. I think they would gladly throw Rangers under a bus now but their own role in helping them is what is stopping them. Any proper enquiry will result in sacking at the SFA.


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And possibly criminal charges.

[plhibs]

I don't think it's who they are dealing with that is stopping them. I think they would gladly throw Rangers under a bus now but their own role in helping them is what is stopping them. Any proper enquiry will result in sacking at the SFA.


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Agree with this and I think our own RP is involved and is the reason that Hibs are keeping quiet.

[Peevemor]

Agree with this and I think our own RP is involved and is the reason that Hibs are keeping quiet.

What did RP do to help them?

[Deansy]

All this trouble because the Hun refuse to accept the punishment for their crimes and the governing-authority hopes people will just forget about it - this situation wouldn't happen even in the biggest Banana Republic !

[MrSmith]

What did RP do to help them?

I think RP is SFA Vice-Chairman? He is allegedly a signatory on the 5-way agreement and will be aware of what was happening at the time. I don't think RP is corrupt in anyway but he may have been part of the cover up. Its a plot of Machiavellian proportions! In other words, the biggest tin of whitewash ever applied by a painter!

[green day]

I think RP is SFA Vice-Chairman? He is allegedly a signatory on the 5-way agreement and will be aware of what was happening at the time. I don't think RP is corrupt in anyway but he may have been part of the cover up. Its a plot of Machiavellian proportions! In other words, the biggest tin of whitewash ever applied by a painter!

Alleged by who?

[MrSmith]

Alleged by who?

Various publication and yes, your favourite on-line bloggers.

[InchHibby]

I've said it before and I'll say it again, if it were any other club out with the bigot brothers, the SFA would have applied all the rules and titles or trophies won within that period would have been deleted long ago. A law for them and another for the rest of us, this is just another reason why this League is a laughing stock.

[green day]

Various publication and yes, your favourite on-line bloggers.

I guess we will not know for sure until/unless the Celtic letter leaked in the Times today gains some traction.

It does occur to me that Rod is not a fool, and saying nothing doesnt necessarily indicate that he is complicit in or part of any cover up.

I am not close enough to the detail, but - apart from Celtic - which clubs have made a statement?

[MrSmith]

I guess we will not know for sure until/unless the Celtic letter leaked in the Times today gains some traction.

It does occur to me that Rod is not a fool, and saying nothing doesnt necessarily indicate that he is complicit in or part of any cover up.

I am not close enough to the detail, but - apart from Celtic - which clubs have made a statement?


As I said its a massive plot! I don't know who, where, with what and which weapon etc. I only read various bits and pieces but I hope RP is clean in this or it would make his sporting integrity speech meaningless. If we move on, we will never know the extent of the corruption therefore and for me, we must push this all the way to ensure future integrity and meaningful sporting equality - even though Celtic are miles ahead of everyone! :(

[Ozyhibby]

I guess we will not know for sure until/unless the Celtic letter leaked in the Times today gains some traction.

It does occur to me that Rod is not a fool, and saying nothing doesnt necessarily indicate that he is complicit in or part of any cover up.

I am not close enough to the detail, but - apart from Celtic - which clubs have made a statement?

None, doesn't mean we shouldn't. Through all the years that clubs were massively overspending we bought into (correctly IMO) the financial prudence line from Rod. We had to watch other club revel in success they could not afford while our own club performed terribly but within budget. To now say that it's ok and we should all just move on when there is cast iron evidence of cheating by one club stinks to be honest.


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[JeMeSouviens]

Lawell's 5 year old letter. Given the timescale and that the whole Lord Nimmo Smith carve up happened after that (albeit that was SPL led and this is demanding action from the SFA) I'm not that convinced it's such an exciting development as the Celtc blogosphere seem to think.

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/DJH03YCXgAEGShh.jpg

Edit: it gets resized too wee so here's the link - https://pbs.twimg.com/media/DJH03YCXgAEGShh.jpg

[marinello59]

Ok marinello, I haven't read your every utterance on the issue but is it fair to say at least that you are an apologist for the club taking the stance of ignoring it and moving on?

Just out of (genuine)interest, what is your view on how things should proceed now that the Supreme court has declared the Rangers use of EBT's illegal and the governing authorities refusal to revisit the discredited LNS report? Do you back a judicial review?

No. :greengrin I have a great deal of sympathy for the club reps who have taken flak here unfairly. As for the club do you know for certain that's what they are doing? Our club tends to do things properly and in a measured manner, if things are happening behind the scenes then maybe they need to keep quiet for now.
As to my thoughts on a judicial review, I'll be honest, unlike the legal experts on here I really have no idea if ithere are grounds for it to go ahead and if it does if it will succeed. It really isn't as black and white a case, legally, as some would think. I do get suspicious when lawyers get involved in anything, the only given is that they will win financially. Whatever happens the real focus has to be tightening up the rules going forward to ensure no club behaves like Sevco and others have done over the past two decades rather than on title stripping.

[Velma Dinkley]

No. :greengrin I have a great deal of sympathy for the club reps who have taken flak here unfairly. As for the club do you know for certain that's what they are doing? Our club tends to do things properly and in a measured manner, if things are happening behind the scenes then maybe they need to keep quiet for now.
As to my thoughts on a judicial review, I'll be honest, unlike the legal experts on here I really have no idea if ithere are grounds for it to go ahead and if it does if it will succeed. It really isn't as black and white a case, legally, as some would think. I do get suspicious when lawyers get involved in anything, the only given is that they will win financially. Whatever happens the real focus has to be tightening up the rules going forward to ensure no club behaves like Sevco and others have done over the past two decades rather than on title stripping.

The rules don't need to be tightened. They just need to be applied to everyone. That's the problem.

[marinello59]

The rules don't need to be tightened. They just need to be applied to everyone. That's the problem.

Which is why tightening up procedures and laying out set punishments so there is no doubt of the consequences of actions has to be the focus for the future. :confused:

[Velma Dinkley]

Which is why tightening up procedures and laying out set punishments so there is no doubt of the consequences of actions has to be the focus for the future. :confused:

Let's apply the rules fairly today, then we can have confidence in them being applied fairly in the future.

[marinello59]

Let's apply the rules fairly today, then we can have confidence in them being applied fairly in the future.

So no form of review or investigation needed then? Straight to title stripping?

[Velma Dinkley]

So no form of review or investigation needed then? Straight to title stripping?

A thorough review is long overdue, but title stripping is not a punishment. It's a consequence of Rangers' opponents being awarded a 3-0 victory everytime Rangers fielded an ineligible player. And that's just a consequence of their secret side letter payments. Those are the rules.

[Deansy]

Found this on 'Hun Media', looking to see their views on this leaked-letter - it's alleging the GFA are bent (shocker !!) - but the good thing is it also bad-mouths the Yams but there's a lot of business-lingo/spredsheet info in it so am hoping the likes of CWG or other 'Business Hibees' will read it and explain it in more understandable language ?. Perhaps this is the start of the Hun laying the ground for the predictale 'Whatabootery' they will undoubtedly indulge in when these titles are voided !!

https://footballtaxhavens.wordpress.com/2017/09/01/hearts-admin-part-1/

'Out of the creditors total of £28.424m, £27.472m were written off. Plus Ann Budge charged HoM £552k for setting up the BIDCO and supplying the £2.4m loan used to do the Ukio deal:


552k - is that roughly 25% and if so - wow !!

[oldbutdim]

I think RP is SFA Vice-Chairman? He is allegedly a signatory on the 5-way agreement and will be aware of what was happening at the time. I don't think RP is corrupt in anyway but he may have been part of the cover up. Its a plot of Machiavellian proportions! In other words, the biggest tin of whitewash ever applied by a painter!

My understanding is that the agreement remains unsigned.

:hmmm:

[marinello59]

A thorough review is long overdue, bower title stripping is not a punishment. It's a consequence of Rangers' opponents being awarded a 3-0 victory everything Rangers fielded an ineligible player. And that's just a consequence of their secret side letter payments. Those are the rules.

Well let's hope it really is that simple.

[lapsedhibee]

Anyway, irrespective of whether the New Huns are the Old Huns or not, the Old Huns cheated to win trophies and those wins should be declared null and void. It's unbelievable that this is even contentious tbh. :confused::agree: