Generic Sevco / Rangers meltdown thread

[Paisley Hibby]

Although I agree Oldco were cheating *******s I cant get that excited about this.
Stripping titles now doesnt achieve much from our point of view. They got the glory at the time and thats really all that matters.
The best thing might be the leaps of logic that rangers supporters are going to have to try to perform if they try and argue that this doesnt reflect on the current club.
I think stripping titles would REALLY matter to The Rangers fans, as much as keeping 1872 and the treble stars on their shirts does. The SFA/SPFL will not have the balls to address this.

[southern hibby]

Although I agree Oldco were cheating *******s I cant get that excited about this.
Stripping titles now doesnt achieve much from our point of view. They got the glory at the time and thats really all that matters.
The best thing might be the leaps of logic that rangers supporters are going to have to try to perform if they try and argue that this doesnt reflect on the current club.

Stripping the titles etc, will let teams know that cheats will suffer if caught. Think about it if the SFA grow a set and take them off Rangers then other teams including The Rangers will know they would get hammered if caught.
If we sit back and allow this to happen then it will always be an option for any team who think they can get away with it.

GGTTH

[southern hibby]

I think stripping titles would REALLY matter to The Rangers fans, as much as keeping 1872 and the treble stars on their shirts does. The SFA/SPFL will not have the balls to address this.

Not sure why but I genuinely believe the SFA have something to hide and don't want to address stripping titles as it may bring their dirty washing out in to the public domain.

GGTTH

[Mantis Toboggan]

I think stripping titles would REALLY matter to The Rangers fans, as much as keeping 1872 and the treble stars on their shirts does. The SFA/SPFL will not have the balls to address this.

Oh I totally agree the authorities are spineless.
Rangers would probably just ignore any ruling anyway. I mean the 5 stars thing is made up by them in the first place!

[MKHIBEE]

Straw poll of 1 but when my old and new employers messed up my tax in 2003 / 2004 HMRC told me it was MY responsibility to have checked my tax and ensured I paid the correct amount. The accountants I work with think the side letter issue is really damaging because by not declaring the contracts to the governing body it looks like a deliberate attempt to avoid tax, hence tax evasion rather than avoidance. Given all these players were represented by 3rd parties it's difficult to portray that they were duped by Oldco into believing this was "above board". Only opinions but it would appear a bit murky and I certainly wouldn't be sleeping well if I was an EBT beneficiary.

Murray has already exonarated everyone he knows by stating that it was not tax evasion.

[MKHIBEE]

Straw poll of 1 but when my old and new employers messed up my tax in 2003 / 2004 HMRC told me it was MY responsibility to have checked my tax and ensured I paid the correct amount. The accountants I work with think the side letter issue is really damaging because by not declaring the contracts to the governing body it looks like a deliberate attempt to avoid tax, hence tax evasion rather than avoidance. Given all these players were represented by 3rd parties it's difficult to portray that they were duped by Oldco into believing this was "above board". Only opinions but it would appear a bit murky and I certainly wouldn't be sleeping well if I was an EBT beneficiary.

Murray has already exonarated everyone he knows by stating that it was not tax evasion.

[Brunswickbill]

Wonder if they will sue their agents.

An accountant friend told me that with all of these tax "efficiency" schemes, there is always some small print along the lines that the scheme is considered to be within the law but a final determination can only be made through the courts. Basically saying it's up to the buyer to confirm the legality; if you buy into it you takes your chance and the vendor accepts no liability.

[pacorosssco]

An accountant friend told me that with all of these tax "efficiency" schemes, there is always some small print along the lines that the scheme is considered to be within the law but a final determination can only be made through the courts. Basically saying it's up to the buyer to confirm the legality; if you buy into it you takes your chance and the vendor accepts no liability.

Yes your sold a tax dodge for a fee yet risk is yours and were told compliance exists.

[monktonharp]

They had a guy who was struck off as a solicitor in 2007 for conflicts of interest. That was it.

I'm not sure whether they sought a second opinion (people rarely do, but it would make sense to), or to what extent they shopped-around. However, as has been said, they didn't take his advice fully, in that they recorded the arrangements by way of the side-letters. So, in short, they were okay, but they didn't do it the way they were told to. :rolleyes:

My instinct in taking this sort of advice is to make sure that the adviser has adequate Indemnity Insurance, so that you can sue the hell out of them if things go wrong.all very fine, for guys like you and Bigwheel trying to justify or explain the Oldco situation as you see it, or how some bigwig lawyers try to impose it but the Fact remains that 5, yes 5 High Heid yins at the Supreme Court (ye canny get any higher) decided that they were "at it". does not matter if a Solicitor wi' a Snawman's pipe in his mooth suddenly comes along.........

[pacorosssco]

all very fine, for guys like you and Bigwheel trying to justify or explain the Oldco situation as you see it, or how some bigwig lawyers try to impose it but the Fact remains that 5, yes 5 High Heid yins at the Supreme Court (ye canny get any higher) decided that they were "at it". does not matter if a Solicitor wi' a Snawman's pipe in his mooth suddenly comes along.........

Yes.Murray and Rangers were supported by old school system it is the reason that they were able to run up debt at that level until bank crisis forced those in charge to point blame elsewhere. Murray a charlatan but those who fall with him protect him.

[pacorosssco]

Although I agree Oldco were cheating *******s I cant get that excited about this.
Stripping titles now doesnt achieve much from our point of view. They got the glory at the time and thats really all that matters.
The best thing might be the leaps of logic that rangers supporters are going to have to try to perform if they try and argue that this doesnt reflect on the current club.

If you won by illegal means you cheated. Rangers will hold 9 in a row as theirs no matter what. They are not only ones who have been exposed. Italians etc

[Deansy]

Not sure why but I genuinely believe the SFA have something to hide and don't want to address stripping titles as it may bring their dirty washing out in to the public domain.

GGTTH

With the GFA it's not a case of 'If' they are hiding something - it's a case of 'HOW MUCH' they are hiding ?

It's not too outrageous a thought as previously no-one thought the Hun would be found-out !. Now that's happened, some of the 'Rats' on the good-ship GFA might take the view that if they're the 'First to reveal all' then whatever punishment to follow might be slightly less than all the other rats receive ??, Let's not kid ourselves, there's no 'Camaraderie' to be found amongst the likes of Regan, Doncaster & Co - and right now they're all caught between a rock and a very hard place and the next few days/weeks promise to be very interesting !

[monktonharp]

I have never understood why this hasn't happened. I know contractors in my line of work who were using ebts and are being personally being chased by hmrc and some in danger of losing their houses. Why haven't hmrc gone after the players who benefitted from avoiding tax?In that comment, you seem to me, to be putting up a smokescreen for the real offenders, the club that used or conned the people who pay our tax and gave those sly deals to players in order to attract them to RFC. don't make excuses for players who know what was going on btw. If they lost their house, their fancy car or their golf clubs I'd laugh ma heid aff.

[monktonharp]

had a closer look at your comments Oxo. apologise for implying that only the club were doing the cheating. the way I see it, the club were indeed using the system to the Max and the football players were , probably in tandem with their Agents quite happy to milk the system at the demise of the normal PAYE system which most hard working people abide by. It should not be ignored, that many of the players employed by Oldco at that time , were using the system and thereby cheating the system and should rightly be persued by HMRC. If , in some cases, it might end up that they might lose their hoose, or possessions then tough sheite. Ye Flee wi' the craws, ye get shot wi' the craws.

[CropleyWasGod]

Even though her main aim is tens of millions elsewhere, though, Her Maj shirley won't be completely uninterested in collecting the mere millions involved in The Thes case?
Fairness would suggest not, of course.

Previous practice suggests they won't go after the players. The spirit of the new approach to tax avoidance suggests otherwise.



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[MrSmith]

had a closer look at your comments Oxo. apologise for implying that only the club were doing the cheating. the way I see it, the club were indeed using the system to the Max and the football players were , probably in tandem with their Agents quite happy to milk the system at the demise of the normal PAYE system which most hard working people abide by. It should not be ignored, that many of the players employed by Oldco at that time , were using the system and thereby cheating the system and should rightly be persued by HMRC. If , in some cases, it might end up that they might lose their hoose, or possessions then tough sheite. Ye Flee wi' the craws, ye get shot wi' the craws.

That is exactly how it is! If the SFA/SPFL tile strip, watch the proverbial mud hit the fan! SDM and associates will map out where the bodies are hidden through the relative safety of their PR and media chums plus all those involved, will be queuing up to stick the next person in.

justice must be served upon all those who rigged our game and brought it into disrepute. Until then, we cannot heal nor move on.

[Ozyhibby]

https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20170707/67a5bec60e7187d33329d9e244f123f0.jpg
Well done Dons fans. Stewards tried unsuccessfully to take the banners from them. Every club should protest this.


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[MichaelTheCelt]

https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20170707/67a5bec60e7187d33329d9e244f123f0.jpg
Well done Dons fans. Stewards tried unsuccessfully to take the banners from them. Every club should protest this.


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:not worth

Deffo mate, I hope to see a lot more of this from supporters of other clubs.

[ian cruise]

Stripping the titles etc, will let teams know that cheats will suffer if caught. Think about it if the SFA grow a set and take them off Rangers then other teams including The Rangers will know they would get hammered if caught.
If we sit back and allow this to happen then it will always be an option for any team who think they can get away with it.

GGTTH

I don't think it will. Much in the same way Lance Armstrong refuses the acknowledge the stripping of his tour wins the Rangers fans will still claim they won 54 titles, the club probably will too. If they keep insisting they were demoted when that is factually inaccurate what chance do you have of them respecting a retrospective punishment such as titles being stripped. They just continue to share pictures of them with the trophies as proof they won them.

[HFCdeb]

https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20170707/67a5bec60e7187d33329d9e244f123f0.jpg
Well done Dons fans. Stewards tried unsuccessfully to take the banners from them. Every club should protest this.


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Good on them, hope we see more of this at grounds throughout the season.

[BegbieHSC]

Hope we as fans get something organised to protest the criminals that were at Ibrox.

I don't mean to give our club stick from a corporate level, as I know how difficult these things are, but I think the fans would really appreciate a statement of some kind from the club. Even one that minces its words quite well, like "in the event of a review, we will monitor developments very closely, and will not make further comment until such a time as further information emerges."

[Ozyhibby]

Statement from Dundee Utd fans.
https://m.facebook.com/arabtrust1909/posts/10154852872167992


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[CropleyWasGod]

Statement from Dundee Utd fans.
https://m.facebook.com/arabtrust1909/posts/10154852872167992


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I notice that they are using their "Associate Director". Maybe this is something we can use our own Fans' Reps for?

[G B Young]

http://www.scotsman.com/sport/football/teams/rangers/alan-pattullo-stripping-rangers-titles-will-achieve-little-1-4497193

Good to see Hearts referred to in this article. But why is only the 2006 Scottish Cup final mentioned? I guess that was when they were paying (or as it turned out, NOT paying) truly silly wages?

[lapsedhibee]

http://www.scotsman.com/sport/football/teams/rangers/alan-pattullo-stripping-rangers-titles-will-achieve-little-1-4497193

Good to see Hearts referred to in this article. But why is only the 2006 Scottish Cup final mentioned? I guess that was when they were paying (or as it turned out, NOT paying) truly silly wages?

Crucially, that article omits the side-letters issue (which sets the Thes case apart from all others, including Hearts). And to suggest that Celtic 'investigating the possibility of using EBTs' is somehow comparable to what actually went on at the Thes is ludicrous. The SMSM is truly pathetic.

[Ich liebe Deek]

Whether titles get stripped or not 'real fitba people'ken what happened so let the old club keep them.The only good that can come out of this is the destruction of the organisation who governed this era and continue to dodge the issue.They had no credibility prior to this pish and now must be dismantled completely.

[southern hibby]

I don't think it will. Much in the same way Lance Armstrong refuses the acknowledge the stripping of his tour wins the Rangers fans will still claim they won 54 titles, the club probably will too. If they keep insisting they were demoted when that is factually inaccurate what chance do you have of them respecting a retrospective punishment such as titles being stripped. They just continue to share pictures of them with the trophies as proof they won them.

If the authorities take wins away from them they can say what they want but History will acknowledge they cheated.

All this they won't except it cr8p, means nothing, they need brought into line with the laws of the game.

GGTTH

[lapsedhibee]

If the authorities take wins away from them they can say what they want but History will acknowledge they cheated.

All this they won't except it cr8p, means nothing, they need brought into line with the laws of the game.

GGTTH

:agree: When the whole thing blew up in their faces Fat Sally was on the tellybox giving it 'Rangers won't accept being demoted/relegated/whatever'. **** what they'll accept or say they'll accept.

[Ozyhibby]

I notice that they are using their "Associate Director". Maybe this is something we can use our own Fans' Reps for?

I'd be interested to know what our fans reps thought of this issue. It would be nice if they could come on the board and tell us the club's thoughts on the issue.


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[Real Emerald]

Statement from Dundee Utd fans.
https://m.facebook.com/arabtrust1909/posts/10154852872167992


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All very true but we all know the fans of other clubs would be as well shouting at the moon. The Scottish football authorities, press, tv etc. will do nothing to damage The Rangers. It's a shocking reflection on Scottish football that cheating on this level is swept under the carpet and to cap it all the media make out that The Rangers are the victims.

[Bostonhibby]

I'd be interested to know what our fans reps thought of this issue. It would be nice if they could come on the board and tell us the club's thoughts on the issue.


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[emoji106] if enough fans want to see action / an expression of their views directly to the club then this is exactly what I felt the position would serve.

If the people who run the club have a position on something like this they should be sharing what the club feels and why. No better outlet than our reps.

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[lapsedhibee]

All very true but we all know the fans of other clubs would be as well shouting at the moon. The Scottish football authorities, press, tv etc. will do nothing to damage The Rangers. It's a shocking reflection on Scottish football that cheating on this level is swept under the carpet and to cap it all the media make out that The Rangers are the victims.

Disagree. If noise hadn't been made before, The Thes would have been in the top flight of Scottish football from the very first minute of their existence.

[Ozyhibby]

[emoji106] if enough fans want to see action / an expression of their views directly to the club then this is exactly what I felt the position would serve.

If the people who run the club have a position on something like this they should be sharing what the club feels and why. No better outlet than our reps.

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I'll try set up a poll later (if I can work out how to do it) to see what fans on here think. May just be the regulars on this thread that care.
If anyone else want to do it first because I'm on my phone feel free.


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[CropleyWasGod]

[emoji106] if enough fans want to see action / an expression of their views directly to the club then this is exactly what I felt the position would serve.

If the people who run the club have a position on something like this they should be sharing what the club feels and why. No better outlet than our reps.

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Shouldn't it be the other way around in this situation?

The fans reps should be communicating to the Board what the fans think.

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[Ozyhibby]

Shouldn't it be the other way around in this situation?

The fans reps should be communicating to the Board what the fans think.

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That's what I think. Previously it felt like it was the other way round. This is the perfect issue for them to step up.


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[Real Emerald]

Disagree. If noise hadn't been made before, The Thes would have been in the top flight of Scottish football from the very first minute of their existence.

That's true the fans did play a part in that but are now being blamed for getting a club that ceased to exist 'relegated', how does that work? Don't get me wrong, I'm all for as much noise being made about this from as many places as possible, I'm just making the point that nothing more will be done to them, unfortunately. Hope I'm wrong.

[Bostonhibby]

Shouldn't it be the other way around in this situation?

The fans reps should be communicating to the Board what the fans think.

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That's what my first paragraph was getting at.



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[Ozyhibby]

Does anyone know how to set up a poll?


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[Bostonhibby]

Does anyone know how to set up a poll?


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I can't do it on my phone either. Stuck on a train and no lap top.

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[Ozyhibby]

I can't do it on my phone either. Stuck on a train and no lap top.

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I've got my iPad now but I just don't know how to do it.


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[JeMeSouviens]

I've got my iPad now but I just don't know how to do it.


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I'll do one, hang on a sec ...

[Ozyhibby]

I'll do one, hang on a sec ...

Magic, thank you.


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[Ozyhibby]

http://www.scotsman.com/sport/football/teams/aberdeen/aberdeen-fans-fly-protest-banner-after-rangers-verdict-1-4497375


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[Hibrandenburg]

Let's not forget that the EBT system not only allowed them to buy players that they otherwise couldn't, it also meant they had more resources to buy the best from their competitors and weaken them. How many young Scottish players ended up at ibrox keeping the bench warm and not getting the game time and experience they'd have gotten elsewhere?

[KWJ]

Let's not forget that the EBT system not only allowed them to buy players that they otherwise couldn't, it also meant they had more resources to buy the best from their competitors and weaken them. How many young Scottish players ended up at ibrox keeping the bench warm and not getting the game time and experience they'd have gotten elsewhere?

From Hibs alone

Murray
Miller
Thomson
Shiels (indirectly)
Latapy (Sort of)
Whittaker

They go bust and we out do them to get Claros.

[Keith_M]

The ridiculous thing is that it's not just the current incarnation of Rangers that complain about being relegated or demoted, but the Media and some of our esteemed footballing bosses have said the same thing.

Isn't it great to have Rangers 'back', etc.


Not possible, they're long since dead, what is playing at Ibrox is 'The Rangers', and they haven't won a single major trophy.


Admittedly, they look and sound disgustingly similar, but that's about it.

[Real Emerald]

The ridiculous thing is that it's not just the current incarnation of Rangers that complain about being relegated or demoted, but the Media and some of our esteemed footballing bosses have said the same thing.

Isn't it great to have Rangers 'back', etc.


Not possible, they're long since dead, what is playing at Ibrox is 'The Rangers', and they haven't won a single major trophy.


Admittedly, they look and sound disgustingly similar, but that's about it.
And they managed to purchase a 50k seater stadium and training ground for £5m, a sum that also included a payment to the liquidator which was around £2m I seem to remember. That on top of all the creditors and HMRC loosing millions. They march on as if nothing has happened except having the misfortune of being 'relegated' by the nasty other clubs. The whole thing stinks but they will get away with it and still be portrayed as the victims by themselves and the media. Utterly ridiculous what they're getting away with.

[Ozyhibby]

http://www.scotsman.com/sport/football/teams/rangers/rangers-poll-over-26-000-readers-have-say-on-ebt-titles-1-4497710


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[blackpoolhibs]

Signed but don't think it will happen


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I signed too, and by everyone getting behind this hopefully we will see titles taken from the team that died. This should not be allowed to be swept under the carpet, the right thing to do is to have those titles declared null and void, its up to the fans of every other club to make this happen.

[Kato]

http://www.scotsman.com/sport/football/teams/rangers/alan-pattullo-stripping-rangers-titles-will-achieve-little-1-4497193

Good to see Hearts referred to in this article. But why is only the 2006 Scottish Cup final mentioned? I guess that was when they were paying (or as it turned out, NOT paying) truly silly wages?

At that time they were trying to avoid paying UK tax by registering players in Lithuania then "loaning" them to Hearts. Ten hearts players in the 2006 team were Kaunas players. The tax due after the rouse was uncovered has never been paid.

[Is It On....]

Let's not forget that the EBT system not only allowed them to buy players that they otherwise couldn't, it also meant they had more resources to buy the best from their competitors and weaken them. How many young Scottish players ended up at ibrox keeping the bench warm and not getting the game time and experience they'd have gotten elsewhere?

It's not just about how much money you have, it's also about how you spend it; Billy Dodds - £1.5m transfer fee 😂😂

[A Hi-Bee]

It's not just about how much money you have, it's also about how you spend it; Billy Dodds - £1.5m transfer fee 😂😂

It don't matter what they spent it on, they had it due to financial doping of the system in plain simple other words the club that used to be called rangers(the Huns) cheated to win. Strip them of any titles/cups won during the inglorious days of this odious so called institution, An asylum is also an instatution I believe.
The newer old version (the Newer Huns, similar but different) has won sweet F.A. so they are in the clear for now, with luck they will go the same way in time.

[Billy Whizz]

http://m.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/40536272

[Kaiser1962]

And they managed to purchase a 50k seater stadium and training ground for £5m, a sum that also included a payment to the liquidator which was around £2m I seem to remember. That on top of all the creditors and HMRC loosing millions. They march on as if nothing has happened except having the misfortune of being 'relegated' by the nasty other clubs. The whole thing stinks but they will get away with it and still be portrayed as the victims by themselves and the media. Utterly ridiculous what they're getting away with.

Charles Green paid £1.5m for Oldco's heritable properties (Ibrox Stadium and Murray Park) and £2.75m for players contracts in June 2012. The "gains on property revaluation" in the interim report 6 months later was £33,988,000 with The Rangers total assetts claimed at £87,545,000 which would include whatever they had income wise at the time.

All perfectly legitimate of course and in the best interests of the creditors.

[Kaiser1962]

http://m.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/40536272

If they didnt gain an advantage why bother? It must have been a nightmare to administer. And then the "legal advisor" cum porn star (see what i did there) tells you that in order to work the scheme effectively dont write anything down how clinically thick do you have to be to think everythings legit?

I do hope that HMRC go after the recipients (i know this seems unlikely from CWG's posts) but I would really like to hear what they have got to say about the scheme and the payments. Now that might result in charges being brought.

[Kato]

http://m.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/40536272

That's one interpretation. What he doesn't address is why were the payments clandestine, hidden side contracts are very much against the SFA's rules as all payments to players must be declared.

[Deansy]

http://m.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/40536272

'Every single player that was signed during that period would have been signed whether the Murray Group tax scheme was in place or not' :fibber:

Yeah Dave - you and 'truth' go hand-in-hand ...............................................

[Iain G]

'Every single player that was signed during that period would have been signed whether the Murray Group tax scheme was in place or not' :fibber:

Yeah Dave - you and 'truth' go hand-in-hand ...............................................

Is he a liar or a fantasist, or both?!

[Jack Hackett]

That's one interpretation. What he doesn't address is why were the payments clandestine, hidden side contracts are very much against the SFA's rules as all payments to players must be declared.

Bullseye! Every pathetic excuse any of them comes out with, totally ignores the side letters. Every single one of these broke the rules. Cheating plain and simple.

[Ozyhibby]

I think King's intervention will not be helpful for Rangers.


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[Fuzzywuzzy]

Short memory for Davie

‘With regard to EBTs, I was on the board so I have to take some responsibility.

‘And I follow the logic of the argument that if we lose the tax case then we probably gained some competitive advantage.

‘I believe that, on behalf of myself and most of the board members who were with me and probably agree with me, that we should apologise for that

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/football/article-2161850/Rangers-crisis-Dave-King-apologises.html

[Ozyhibby]

Dave in 2012
https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20170707/42deb1f7447c0e536b950113a6ce4aaa.jpg



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[lapsedhibee]

http://m.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/40536272

The GASL is beyond parody.

[A Hi-Bee]

Dave in 2012
https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20170707/42deb1f7447c0e536b950113a6ce4aaa.jpg



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Remember this guy has some serious memory issues, glib and shameless spring to mind.

[Ozyhibby]

https://www.change.org/p/spfl-rangers-fc-to-be-stripped-of-14-league-titles?recruiter=625847876&utm_source=share_petition&utm_medium=copylink&utm_campaign=share_petition&utm_term=autopublish

Only takes 1 minute


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[MichaelTheCelt]

Huns are lapping up Squintys statement, that's everyone told apparently :hilarious

IMO hes made a massive gaffe here and it's only gonna piss every single supporter off.

[CropleyWasGod]

Charles Green paid £1.5m for Oldco's heritable properties (Ibrox Stadium and Murray Park) and £2.75m for players contracts in June 2012. The "gains on property revaluation" in the interim report 6 months later was £33,988,000 with The Rangers total assetts claimed at £87,545,000 which would include whatever they had income wise at the time.

All perfectly legitimate of course and in the best interests of the creditors.
The liquidators are chasing D&P for (IIRC) £29m. That doesn't sort the initial injustice, of course, but it will help the creditors.

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[Hibernia&Alba]

Short memory for Davie

‘With regard to EBTs, I was on the board so I have to take some responsibility.

‘And I follow the logic of the argument that if we lose the tax case then we probably gained some competitive advantage.

‘I believe that, on behalf of myself and most of the board members who were with me and probably agree with me, that we should apologise for that

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/football/article-2161850/Rangers-crisis-Dave-King-apologises.html


So he admits they're cheats! Damned by his own words. He has to be interviewed at length about all of this by Alex Thomson!

[Marco G]

And an amazing statement by King on BBC website, after saying Murray overspent,

*"As we rebuild the squad we are deliberately and transparently spending beyond our income.

While I am chairman, Rangers' overspending will always be on a sustainable and robust basis and one that safeguards the future of our club."

???


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[Hibernia&Alba]

And an amazing statement by King on BBC website, after saying Murray overspent,

*"As we rebuild the squad we are deliberately and transparently spending beyond our income.

While I am chairman, Rangers' overspending will always be on a sustainable and robust basis and one that safeguards the future of our club."

???


Sent from my SM-T713 using Tapatalk

I thought it was a typo!

[CropleyWasGod]

And an amazing statement by King on BBC website, after saying Murray overspent,

*"As we rebuild the squad we are deliberately and transparently spending beyond our income.

While I am chairman, Rangers' overspending will always be on a sustainable and robust basis and one that safeguards the future of our club."

???


Sent from my SM-T713 using Tapatalk
One can spend more than one's income, as long as there is capital to enable that.

However, that second paragraph is just bizarre.


Sent from my SM-A510F using Tapatalk

[Marco G]

One can spend more than one's income, as long as there is capital to enable that.

However, that second paragraph is just bizarre.


Sent from my SM-A510F using Tapatalk
Anyway their overspend will need to be sustained for even longer after their Europa League disaster [emoji3]

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[Ozyhibby]

Anyway their overspend will need to be sustained for even longer after their Europa League disaster [emoji3]

Sent from my SM-T713 using Tapatalk

It will get even worse when they have to pay off Caixhina and all the dud Portuguese and Mexicans.


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[Spike Mandela]

It will get even worse when they have to pay off Caixhina and all the dud Portuguese and Mexicans.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Like they paid off Warburton and co???

Remember they have a crook in charge of them who doesn't play by any conventional rules.

[Keith_M]

Like they paid off Warburton and co???

Remember they have a crook in charge of them who doesn't play by any conventional rules.


TBF (sorry), it now looks like Warbo was at it with the Forest shenanigans.

[Deansy]

TBF (sorry), it now looks like Warbo was at it with the Forest shenanigans.

Let's be honest, the Hun and Warburton were made for each other but as they do - crooks fall out !

[ancient hibee]

What do you do when the team looks like a disaster area?Have a good rammy off the field to rally the troops.This is what King is doing and Celtic,who need Rangers to keep their fans interested,have obliged by joining in.King and Lawell have got it scripted out.

[Ozyhibby]

https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20170708/83f8e01bc2c2d3e21bc12ed9ff6c4675.jpg
Spiers in the Times.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[Is It On....]

One can spend more than one's income, as long as there is capital to enable that.

However, that second paragraph is just bizarre.


Sent from my SM-A510F using Tapatalk

I think it's a very dangerous game to convert capital into income as once it's gone, it's gone.

[FilipinoHibs]

I think it's a very dangerous game to convert capital into income as once it's gone, it's gone.

Needs the banks to keep extending credit. The banks must be believe there is income growth which does not look to be the case. Or King puts in his own money to make up the gap or raise more from shareholders neither of which is happening.

[CropleyWasGod]

I think it's a very dangerous game to convert capital into income as once it's gone, it's gone.
Of course it is...I was just trying to find some sense in King's doubletalk.

Sent from my SM-A510F using Tapatalk

[CropleyWasGod]

Needs the banks to keep extending credit. The banks must be believe there is income growth which does not look to be the case. Or King puts in his own minet to make up the gap or raise more from shareholders neither of which is happening.
AFAIK, they have no bank credit facilities.

Sent from my SM-A510F using Tapatalk

[Crazyhorse]

Is he a liar or a fantasist, or both?!

He is the ultimate Wormtongue.

[Deansy]

I wonder if Holyrood will get involved in all of this ?. When the Hun were initially caught-out, there was a huge argument/debate about their punishment. The GFA on one side (and we all know who's) unbelieveably and brazenly wanted the new-season to kick-off with Rangers still in the SPL. On the polar-opposite side were the fans of all the other clubs, many who wanted the Hun completely wiped from memory (I was one of them). As the 'debate' carried on, the media really only represented the GFA'S/Hun's side with all sorts of warnings/forecasts of doom & gloom, 'Armageddon without Rangers in the game' etc, etc. However, one point was made which I agreed with, if it wasn't sorted out soon, there was a real chance of major unrest.

Regan - 'Without Rangers there is social unrest – there is a big problem for Scottish society'

Of course it's a different argument this time but the outcome is the same - one side will not be happy with the outcome. If the Hun wins, then that means the vast majority of Scottish Football supporters will NOT be happy and that could put a huge question-mark over the future of our game. If the Hun loses, then there is a huge chance of major unrest. Unfortunately, thanks to a mix of what pull the 'Establishment' have left and the authorities fear of trouble in the streets, I think the Hun will win.

[bringbackbenny]

Club 1872 statement :coffee:

Club 1872 Statement on 'Big Tax Case' Verdict

Club 1872 has taken some time to consider the verdict in the ‘Big Tax Case’ (BTC) as we wanted to gauge the immediate reaction of sections of the media, Scottish football clubs, their supporters groups and the Scottish football authorities. That reaction has been, in the main, as hysterical, inaccurate and agenda driven as we expected. It appears there is still a desire in certain quarters for Scottish football to eat itself alive.

Contrary to the line taken by several dishonest media commentators, encouraged predominantly by Peter Lawwell and Celtic Football Club, this result does not mean that Rangers have “broken the law”, “acted illegally”, “cheated” or gained any sporting advantage through the historic use of EBT payments.

The Lord Nimmo Smith tribunal dealt comprehensively with this matter and, as the SFA has correctly reiterated, is final and binding.

Despite this, we remain concerned that the SPFL board may attempt to act on behalf of Celtic in this matter. It is our belief that a small number of other SPFL clubs, including Aberdeen and Dundee Utd, would like to see them do so. We are also aware that historically the SPFL lawyer, Rod McKenzie has taken an extremely hostile attitude towards Rangers Football Club which we do not believe is founded in his legal opinions.

Should it be the case that the SPFL do decide to act for the benefit of Celtic, then the clubs represented on that board should be aware that Club 1872, and we are sure Rangers Football Club and the wider Rangers support, will use every legal means necessary to challenge those who promote, support or facilitate such a course of action.

That will include, but not be limited to, mounting a legal challenge to the SPFL, boycotting publications whose journalists misreport the facts of the matter and demanding SPFL and SFA investigations into any and all dubious actions by those clubs over the period of the last 50 years.

The investigations we will demand specifically involve, but are not limited to, the actions of several boards, individual board members and employees of Celtic Football Club, across a variety of issues which have been in the public domain for many years but never properly addressed by the football authorities.

We will also demand that the football authorities open multiple investigations and examine in public, and in detail, all deals which allowed Scottish football clubs to write off their debts and the fit and proper status of all majority and joint owners of SPFL clubs. We will not be lectured on integrity, sporting or otherwise, by the clubs involved.

The last time there was an attempt to steal our titles, those involved operated in an environment where Rangers and the Rangers support were in a state of turmoil. The focus of our support was in removing various unsavoury characters from within our own club. That will not be the case this time and any clubs, club officials and commentators involved in any such dishonest and self-serving campaign will be met by wide-ranging, robust, legal and economic challenges at every step of the way.

It would be our preference for Scottish football to return to a more normalised condition where sporting endeavour on the pitch is the source of rivalry between clubs. If that is not the wish of the wider Scottish footballing community then they will find us to be extremely committed opponents nonetheless.

54 and counting.

Issued by Supporters Voice Limited, a Club 1872 company.

[Bostonhibby]

Club 1872 statement :coffee:

Club 1872 Statement on 'Big Tax Case' Verdict

Club 1872 has taken some time to consider the verdict in the ‘Big Tax Case’ (BTC) as we wanted to gauge the immediate reaction of sections of the media, Scottish football clubs, their supporters groups and the Scottish football authorities. That reaction has been, in the main, as hysterical, inaccurate and agenda driven as we expected. It appears there is still a desire in certain quarters for Scottish football to eat itself alive.

Contrary to the line taken by several dishonest media commentators, encouraged predominantly by Peter Lawwell and Celtic Football Club, this result does not mean that Rangers have “broken the law”, “acted illegally”, “cheated” or gained any sporting advantage through the historic use of EBT payments.

The Lord Nimmo Smith tribunal dealt comprehensively with this matter and, as the SFA has correctly reiterated, is final and binding.

Despite this, we remain concerned that the SPFL board may attempt to act on behalf of Celtic in this matter. It is our belief that a small number of other SPFL clubs, including Aberdeen and Dundee Utd, would like to see them do so. We are also aware that historically the SPFL lawyer, Rod McKenzie has taken an extremely hostile attitude towards Rangers Football Club which we do not believe is founded in his legal opinions.

Should it be the case that the SPFL do decide to act for the benefit of Celtic, then the clubs represented on that board should be aware that Club 1872, and we are sure Rangers Football Club and the wider Rangers support, will use every legal means necessary to challenge those who promote, support or facilitate such a course of action.

That will include, but not be limited to, mounting a legal challenge to the SPFL, boycotting publications whose journalists misreport the facts of the matter and demanding SPFL and SFA investigations into any and all dubious actions by those clubs over the period of the last 50 years.

The investigations we will demand specifically involve, but are not limited to, the actions of several boards, individual board members and employees of Celtic Football Club, across a variety of issues which have been in the public domain for many years but never properly addressed by the football authorities.

We will also demand that the football authorities open multiple investigations and examine in public, and in detail, all deals which allowed Scottish football clubs to write off their debts and the fit and proper status of all majority and joint owners of SPFL clubs. We will not be lectured on integrity, sporting or otherwise, by the clubs involved.

The last time there was an attempt to steal our titles, those involved operated in an environment where Rangers and the Rangers support were in a state of turmoil. The focus of our support was in removing various unsavoury characters from within our own club. That will not be the case this time and any clubs, club officials and commentators involved in any such dishonest and self-serving campaign will be met by wide-ranging, robust, legal and economic challenges at every step of the way.

It would be our preference for Scottish football to return to a more normalised condition where sporting endeavour on the pitch is the source of rivalry between clubs. If that is not the wish of the wider Scottish footballing community then they will find us to be extremely committed opponents nonetheless.

54 and counting.

Issued by Supporters Voice Limited, a Club 1872 company.
No surrender then, just like when they liquidated themselves to avoid paying the debts.

Sent from my SM-J320FN using Tapatalk

[lapsedhibee]

Club 1872 statement :coffee:


Or, to precis, whitaboot the child abuse that BJK aboot? :rolleyes:

[Iggy Pope]

For a long time I've been an advocate that Scottish Football needs Celtic and Rangers. 140ish years of footballing tradition says so. I'd imagine anyone who had been lucky enough to to witness Hibs celebrated sides of the early century, the 20s, 40s and 50s might agree. I seen enough of them in the 70s to know where the competition was.

When I read that statement I seriously regret that the Huns were not extinguished. It reads in my head like an Ulster maniac ranting, and one that knows nothing of the football side he is purported to support.

[Platinum Scotty]

For a long time I've been an advocate that Scottish Football needs Celtic and Rangers. 140ish years of footballing tradition says so. I'd imagine anyone who had been lucky enough to to witness Hibs celebrated sides of the early century, the 20s, 40s and 50s might agree. I seen enough of them in the 70s to know where the competition was.

When I read that statement I seriously regret that the Huns were not extinguished. It reads in my head like an Ulster maniac ranting, and one that knows nothing of the football side he is purported to support.

Totally agree

[lord bunberry]

Club 1872 statement :coffee:

Club 1872 Statement on 'Big Tax Case' Verdict

Club 1872 has taken some time to consider the verdict in the ‘Big Tax Case’ (BTC) as we wanted to gauge the immediate reaction of sections of the media, Scottish football clubs, their supporters groups and the Scottish football authorities. That reaction has been, in the main, as hysterical, inaccurate and agenda driven as we expected. It appears there is still a desire in certain quarters for Scottish football to eat itself alive.

Contrary to the line taken by several dishonest media commentators, encouraged predominantly by Peter Lawwell and Celtic Football Club, this result does not mean that Rangers have “broken the law”, “acted illegally”, “cheated” or gained any sporting advantage through the historic use of EBT payments.

The Lord Nimmo Smith tribunal dealt comprehensively with this matter and, as the SFA has correctly reiterated, is final and binding.

Despite this, we remain concerned that the SPFL board may attempt to act on behalf of Celtic in this matter. It is our belief that a small number of other SPFL clubs, including Aberdeen and Dundee Utd, would like to see them do so. We are also aware that historically the SPFL lawyer, Rod McKenzie has taken an extremely hostile attitude towards Rangers Football Club which we do not believe is founded in his legal opinions.

Should it be the case that the SPFL do decide to act for the benefit of Celtic, then the clubs represented on that board should be aware that Club 1872, and we are sure Rangers Football Club and the wider Rangers support, will use every legal means necessary to challenge those who promote, support or facilitate such a course of action.

That will include, but not be limited to, mounting a legal challenge to the SPFL, boycotting publications whose journalists misreport the facts of the matter and demanding SPFL and SFA investigations into any and all dubious actions by those clubs over the period of the last 50 years.

The investigations we will demand specifically involve, but are not limited to, the actions of several boards, individual board members and employees of Celtic Football Club, across a variety of issues which have been in the public domain for many years but never properly addressed by the football authorities.

We will also demand that the football authorities open multiple investigations and examine in public, and in detail, all deals which allowed Scottish football clubs to write off their debts and the fit and proper status of all majority and joint owners of SPFL clubs. We will not be lectured on integrity, sporting or otherwise, by the clubs involved.

The last time there was an attempt to steal our titles, those involved operated in an environment where Rangers and the Rangers support were in a state of turmoil. The focus of our support was in removing various unsavoury characters from within our own club. That will not be the case this time and any clubs, club officials and commentators involved in any such dishonest and self-serving campaign will be met by wide-ranging, robust, legal and economic challenges at every step of the way.

It would be our preference for Scottish football to return to a more normalised condition where sporting endeavour on the pitch is the source of rivalry between clubs. If that is not the wish of the wider Scottish footballing community then they will find us to be extremely committed opponents nonetheless.

54 and counting.

Issued by Supporters Voice Limited, a Club 1872 company.

What a ridiculous statement. Maybe if they showed even a bit of remorse fans of other clubs might not be so keen to see them hammered. When they went into liquidation, they could've made a statement accepting what they did was wrong and they're grateful for being allowed back into the league. Instead it's been hatred and spiteful statements and threats like this one.
The sooner they realise the world doesn't revolve around them and that Scottish football can survive without them the better.

[Bostonhibby]

What a ridiculous statement. Maybe if they showed even a bit of remorse fans of other clubs might not be so keen to see them hammered. When they went into liquidation, they could've made a statement accepting what they did was wrong and they're grateful for being allowed back into the league. Instead it's been hatred and spiteful statements and threats like this one.
The sooner they realise the world doesn't revolve around them and that Scottish football can survive without them the better.
Agree. There was never a better time to do that, acknowledge what everyone knows, that they are indeed another club, show some grace, move into the 18th century at least......

Scotland's shame.

Sent from my SM-J320FN using Tapatalk

[Dan Sarf]

I wonder if Holyrood will get involved in all of this ?. When the Hun were initially caught-out, there was a huge argument/debate about their punishment. The GFA on one side (and we all know who's) unbelieveably and brazenly wanted the new-season to kick-off with Rangers still in the SPL. On the polar-opposite side were the fans of all the other clubs, many who wanted the Hun completely wiped from memory (I was one of them). As the 'debate' carried on, the media really only represented the GFA'S/Hun's side with all sorts of warnings/forecasts of doom & gloom, 'Armageddon without Rangers in the game' etc, etc. However, one point was made which I agreed with, if it wasn't sorted out soon, there was a real chance of major unrest.

Regan - 'Without Rangers there is social unrest – there is a big problem for Scottish society'

Of course it's a different argument this time but the outcome is the same - one side will not be happy with the outcome. If the Hun wins, then that means the vast majority of Scottish Football supporters will NOT be happy and that could put a huge question-mark over the future of our game. If the Hun loses, then there is a huge chance of major unrest. Unfortunately, thanks to a mix of what pull the 'Establishment' have left and the authorities fear of trouble in the streets, I think the Hun will win.

I thought you said Hollywood. And then I thought, hey, that's not such a bad idea. A Hollywood movie about the The.

Any casting suggestions for the lead roles?

[blackpoolhibs]

I thought you said Hollywood. And then I thought, hey, that's not such a bad idea. A Hollywood movie about the The.

Any casting suggestions for the lead roles?

All the cast from the planet of the apes.

[Bostonhibby]

I thought you said Hollywood. And then I thought, hey, that's not such a bad idea. A Hollywood movie about the The.

Any casting suggestions for the lead roles?
Roy Cropper as Dodgy Dave?



Sent from my SM-J320FN using Tapatalk

[Bostonhibby]

All the cast from the planet of the apes.
[emoji1] a winner already[emoji106]

Sent from my SM-J320FN using Tapatalk

[HoboHarry]

All the cast from the planet of the apes.
You could chuck in Davie Dodds and save the make up expense......

[Brunswickbill]

I thought you said Hollywood. And then I thought, hey, that's not such a bad idea. A Hollywood movie about the The.

Any casting suggestions for the lead roles?

I recall reading that Craig Whyte has claimed the film rights to the Rangers take over. So watch this space. It'll be a unique movie bacause it will be the first one where all the participants are baddies.

[Hibernia&Alba]

Club 1872 statement :coffee:

Club 1872 Statement on 'Big Tax Case' Verdict

Club 1872 has taken some time to consider the verdict in the ‘Big Tax Case’ (BTC) as we wanted to gauge the immediate reaction of sections of the media, Scottish football clubs, their supporters groups and the Scottish football authorities. That reaction has been, in the main, as hysterical, inaccurate and agenda driven as we expected. It appears there is still a desire in certain quarters for Scottish football to eat itself alive.

Contrary to the line taken by several dishonest media commentators, encouraged predominantly by Peter Lawwell and Celtic Football Club, this result does not mean that Rangers have “broken the law”, “acted illegally”, “cheated” or gained any sporting advantage through the historic use of EBT payments.

The Lord Nimmo Smith tribunal dealt comprehensively with this matter and, as the SFA has correctly reiterated, is final and binding.

Despite this, we remain concerned that the SPFL board may attempt to act on behalf of Celtic in this matter. It is our belief that a small number of other SPFL clubs, including Aberdeen and Dundee Utd, would like to see them do so. We are also aware that historically the SPFL lawyer, Rod McKenzie has taken an extremely hostile attitude towards Rangers Football Club which we do not believe is founded in his legal opinions.

Should it be the case that the SPFL do decide to act for the benefit of Celtic, then the clubs represented on that board should be aware that Club 1872, and we are sure Rangers Football Club and the wider Rangers support, will use every legal means necessary to challenge those who promote, support or facilitate such a course of action.

That will include, but not be limited to, mounting a legal challenge to the SPFL, boycotting publications whose journalists misreport the facts of the matter and demanding SPFL and SFA investigations into any and all dubious actions by those clubs over the period of the last 50 years.

The investigations we will demand specifically involve, but are not limited to, the actions of several boards, individual board members and employees of Celtic Football Club, across a variety of issues which have been in the public domain for many years but never properly addressed by the football authorities.

We will also demand that the football authorities open multiple investigations and examine in public, and in detail, all deals which allowed Scottish football clubs to write off their debts and the fit and proper status of all majority and joint owners of SPFL clubs. We will not be lectured on integrity, sporting or otherwise, by the clubs involved.

The last time there was an attempt to steal our titles, those involved operated in an environment where Rangers and the Rangers support were in a state of turmoil. The focus of our support was in removing various unsavoury characters from within our own club. That will not be the case this time and any clubs, club officials and commentators involved in any such dishonest and self-serving campaign will be met by wide-ranging, robust, legal and economic challenges at every step of the way.

It would be our preference for Scottish football to return to a more normalised condition where sporting endeavour on the pitch is the source of rivalry between clubs. If that is not the wish of the wider Scottish footballing community then they will find us to be extremely committed opponents nonetheless.

54 and counting.

Issued by Supporters Voice Limited, a Club 1872 company.

Oh yes it does, Huns. Simply saying it doesn't amount to cheating, without explaining why, just isn't going to wash. Explain the unanimous verdict of the Supreme Court. Explain the words of Dave King, when he said defeat in court would mean Rangers had enjoyed an unfair advantage. Explain the side letters and cover up. You address none of these crucial points but simply scream No Surrender.

You cheated, and this isn't going to go away.

[stantonhibby]

Club 1872 statement :coffee:

Club 1872 Statement on 'Big Tax Case' Verdict

Club 1872 has taken some time to consider the verdict in the ‘Big Tax Case’ (BTC) as we wanted to gauge the immediate reaction of sections of the media, Scottish football clubs, their supporters groups and the Scottish football authorities. That reaction has been, in the main, as hysterical, inaccurate and agenda driven as we expected. It appears there is still a desire in certain quarters for Scottish football to eat itself alive.

Contrary to the line taken by several dishonest media commentators, encouraged predominantly by Peter Lawwell and Celtic Football Club, this result does not mean that Rangers have “broken the law”, “acted illegally”, “cheated” or gained any sporting advantage through the historic use of EBT payments.

The Lord Nimmo Smith tribunal dealt comprehensively with this matter and, as the SFA has correctly reiterated, is final and binding.

Despite this, we remain concerned that the SPFL board may attempt to act on behalf of Celtic in this matter. It is our belief that a small number of other SPFL clubs, including Aberdeen and Dundee Utd, would like to see them do so. We are also aware that historically the SPFL lawyer, Rod McKenzie has taken an extremely hostile attitude towards Rangers Football Club which we do not believe is founded in his legal opinions.

Should it be the case that the SPFL do decide to act for the benefit of Celtic, then the clubs represented on that board should be aware that Club 1872, and we are sure Rangers Football Club and the wider Rangers support, will use every legal means necessary to challenge those who promote, support or facilitate such a course of action.

That will include, but not be limited to, mounting a legal challenge to the SPFL, boycotting publications whose journalists misreport the facts of the matter and demanding SPFL and SFA investigations into any and all dubious actions by those clubs over the period of the last 50 years.

The investigations we will demand specifically involve, but are not limited to, the actions of several boards, individual board members and employees of Celtic Football Club, across a variety of issues which have been in the public domain for many years but never properly addressed by the football authorities.

We will also demand that the football authorities open multiple investigations and examine in public, and in detail, all deals which allowed Scottish football clubs to write off their debts and the fit and proper status of all majority and joint owners of SPFL clubs. We will not be lectured on integrity, sporting or otherwise, by the clubs involved.

The last time there was an attempt to steal our titles, those involved operated in an environment where Rangers and the Rangers support were in a state of turmoil. The focus of our support was in removing various unsavoury characters from within our own club. That will not be the case this time and any clubs, club officials and commentators involved in any such dishonest and self-serving campaign will be met by wide-ranging, robust, legal and economic challenges at every step of the way.

It would be our preference for Scottish football to return to a more normalised condition where sporting endeavour on the pitch is the source of rivalry between clubs. If that is not the wish of the wider Scottish footballing community then they will find us to be extremely committed opponents nonetheless.

54 and counting.

Issued by Supporters Voice Limited, a Club 1872 company.


They should just have said We are The People and left it at that.

[GreenLake]

I wonder if Holyrood will get involved in all of this ?. When the Hun were initially caught-out, there was a huge argument/debate about their punishment. The GFA on one side (and we all know who's) unbelieveably and brazenly wanted the new-season to kick-off with Rangers still in the SPL. On the polar-opposite side were the fans of all the other clubs, many who wanted the Hun completely wiped from memory (I was one of them). As the 'debate' carried on, the media really only represented the GFA'S/Hun's side with all sorts of warnings/forecasts of doom & gloom, 'Armageddon without Rangers in the game' etc, etc. However, one point was made which I agreed with, if it wasn't sorted out soon, there was a real chance of major unrest.

Regan - 'Without Rangers there is social unrest – there is a big problem for Scottish society'

Of course it's a different argument this time but the outcome is the same - one side will not be happy with the outcome. If the Hun wins, then that means the vast majority of Scottish Football supporters will NOT be happy and that could put a huge question-mark over the future of our game. If the Hun loses, then there is a huge chance of major unrest. Unfortunately, thanks to a mix of what pull the 'Establishment' have left and the authorities fear of trouble in the streets, I think the Hun will win.

I think we might have more success if Hollywood gets involved. We just need someone to write an entertaining and truthful script about the huns cheating and I know the perfect producers to pitch it to. Just don't let that Phil MacGholaCeltic butcher it.

We also need someone to write a good screenplay about the 114 year cup win and the true history of Irish football teams in Scotland. As a publicity stunt we could change the Hollywood sign into a green Hibbywood.

You can bet there are several groups working on a movie for the Chicago Cubs 109 year win.

[Bostonhibby]

They should just have said We are The People and left it at that.
Or we don't do walking away?

Except for when we stand by allowing the now defunct Glasgow rangers to voluntarily liquidate to avoid it's debts, obviously.

Sent from my SM-J320FN using Tapatalk

[speedy_gonzales]

They should just have said We are The People and left it at that.

They kinda did,,,,



Club 1872 statement :coffee:

Club 1872 Statement on 'Big Tax Case' Verdict

Club 1872 has taken some time to consider the verdict in the ‘Big Tax Case’ (BTC) as we wanted to gauge the immediate reaction of sections of the media, Scottish football clubs, their supporters groups and the Scottish football authorities. That reaction has been, in the main, as hysterical, inaccurate and agenda driven as we expected. It appears there is still a desire in certain quarters for Scottish football to eat itself alive.

Contrary to the line taken by several dishonest media commentators, encouraged predominantly by Peter Lawwell and Celtic Football Club, this result does not mean that Rangers have “broken the law”, “acted illegally”, “cheated” or gained any sporting advantage through the historic use of EBT payments.

The Lord Nimmo Smith tribunal dealt comprehensively with this matter and, as the SFA has correctly reiterated, is final and binding.

Despite this, we remain concerned that the SPFL board may attempt to act on behalf of Celtic in this matter. It is our belief that a small number of other SPFL clubs, including Aberdeen and Dundee Utd, would like to see them do so. We are also aware that historically the SPFL lawyer, Rod McKenzie has taken an extremely hostile attitude towards Rangers Football Club which we do not believe is founded in his legal opinions.

Should it be the case that the SPFL do decide to act for the benefit of Celtic, then the clubs represented on that board should be aware that Club 1872, and we are sure Rangers Football Club and the wider Rangers support, will use every legal means necessary to challenge those who promote, support or facilitate such a course of action.

That will include, but not be limited to, mounting a legal challenge to the SPFL, boycotting publications whose journalists misreport the facts of the matter and demanding SPFL and SFA investigations into any and all dubious actions by those clubs over the period of the last 50 years.

The investigations we will demand specifically involve, but are not limited to, the actions of several boards, individual board members and employees of Celtic Football Club, across a variety of issues which have been in the public domain for many years but never properly addressed by the football authorities.

We will also demand that the football authorities open multiple investigations and examine in public, and in detail, all deals which allowed Scottish football clubs to write off their debts and the fit and proper status of all majority and joint owners of SPFL clubs. We will not be lectured on integrity, sporting or otherwise, by the clubs involved.

The last time there was an attempt to steal our titles, those involved operated in an environment where Rangers and the Rangers support were in a state of turmoil. The focus of our support was in removing various unsavoury characters from within our own club. That will not be the case this time and any clubs, club officials and commentators involved in any such dishonest and self-serving campaign will be met by wide-ranging, robust, legal and economic challenges at every step of the way.

It would be our preference for Scottish football to return to a more normalised condition where sporting endeavour on the pitch is the source of rivalry between clubs. If that is not the wish of the wider Scottish footballing community then they will find us to be extremely committed opponents nonetheless.

54 and counting.

Issued by Supporters Voice Limited, a Club 1872 company.

[Iain G]

All the cast from the planet of the apes.

Planet of the Papes surely? 😉

[blackpoolhibs]

Planet of the Papes surely? 😉

Naw, you cant have the good guys playing the bad guys. :greengrin

[Deansy]

Club 1872 statement :coffee:

Club 1872 Statement on 'Big Tax Case' Verdict

Club 1872 has taken some time to consider the verdict in the ‘Big Tax Case’ (BTC) as we wanted to gauge the immediate reaction of sections of the media, Scottish football clubs, their supporters groups and the Scottish football authorities. That reaction has been, in the main, as hysterical, inaccurate and agenda driven as we expected. It appears there is still a desire in certain quarters for Scottish football to eat itself alive.

Contrary to the line taken by several dishonest media commentators, encouraged predominantly by Peter Lawwell and Celtic Football Club, this result does not mean that Rangers have “broken the law”, “acted illegally”, “cheated” or gained any sporting advantage through the historic use of EBT payments.

The Lord Nimmo Smith tribunal dealt comprehensively with this matter and, as the SFA has correctly reiterated, is final and binding.

Despite this, we remain concerned that the SPFL board may attempt to act on behalf of Celtic in this matter. It is our belief that a small number of other SPFL clubs, including Aberdeen and Dundee Utd, would like to see them do so. We are also aware that historically the SPFL lawyer, Rod McKenzie has taken an extremely hostile attitude towards Rangers Football Club which we do not believe is founded in his legal opinions.

Should it be the case that the SPFL do decide to act for the benefit of Celtic, then the clubs represented on that board should be aware that Club 1872, and we are sure Rangers Football Club and the wider Rangers support, will use every legal means necessary to challenge those who promote, support or facilitate such a course of action.

That will include, but not be limited to, mounting a legal challenge to the SPFL, boycotting publications whose journalists misreport the facts of the matter and demanding SPFL and SFA investigations into any and all dubious actions by those clubs over the period of the last 50 years.

The investigations we will demand specifically involve, but are not limited to, the actions of several boards, individual board members and employees of Celtic Football Club, across a variety of issues which have been in the public domain for many years but never properly addressed by the football authorities.

We will also demand that the football authorities open multiple investigations and examine in public, and in detail, all deals which allowed Scottish football clubs to write off their debts and the fit and proper status of all majority and joint owners of SPFL clubs. We will not be lectured on integrity, sporting or otherwise, by the clubs involved.

The last time there was an attempt to steal our titles, those involved operated in an environment where Rangers and the Rangers support were in a state of turmoil. The focus of our support was in removing various unsavoury characters from within our own club. That will not be the case this time and any clubs, club officials and commentators involved in any such dishonest and self-serving campaign will be met by wide-ranging, robust, legal and economic challenges at every step of the way.

It would be our preference for Scottish football to return to a more normalised condition where sporting endeavour on the pitch is the source of rivalry between clubs. If that is not the wish of the wider Scottish footballing community then they will find us to be extremely committed opponents nonetheless.

54 and counting.

Issued by Supporters Voice Limited, a Club 1872 company.

Translated - 'DON'T DO AS WE SAY ? - CIVILISATION PAYS' - You have been warned.

[Kato]

Naw, you cant have the good guys playing the bad guys. :greengrin

It worked with Henry Fonda in Once Upon A Time In The West, but in the main I agree.

[ancient hibee]

The late Kenneth More would have been a shoo in for David Murray(another for the oldies).

[greenlex]

The late Kenneth More would have been a shoo in for David Murray(another for the oldies).
:tee hee::tee hee::tee hee: What's his dugs name again?

[Kato]

:tee hee::tee hee::tee hee: What's his dugs name again?

Murrays dug is called Billy.

[ancient hibee]

:tee hee::tee hee::tee hee: What's his dugs name again?
N"........"
........

aughty name for dusky skinned individual.Bit long winded for a dug.

[Iain G]

N"........"
........

aughty name for dusky skinned individual.Bit long winded for a dug.

That would have been Richard Todd and not Kenneth More for that to work 😁😉

[ancient hibee]

That would have been Richard Todd and not Kenneth More for that to work 😁😉


Spot on.Thought I'd got away with it.

[ehf]

Translated - 'DON'T DO AS WE SAY ? - CIVILISATION PAYS' - You have been warned.

:agree: Fascists, basically; they might as well just threaten to invade Poland.

[jacomo]

Club 1872 statement :coffee:

Club 1872 Statement on 'Big Tax Case' Verdict

Club 1872 has taken some time to consider the verdict in the ‘Big Tax Case’ (BTC) as we wanted to gauge the immediate reaction of sections of the media, Scottish football clubs, their supporters groups and the Scottish football authorities. That reaction has been, in the main, as hysterical, inaccurate and agenda driven as we expected. It appears there is still a desire in certain quarters for Scottish football to eat itself alive.

Contrary to the line taken by several dishonest media commentators, encouraged predominantly by Peter Lawwell and Celtic Football Club, this result does not mean that Rangers have “broken the law”, “acted illegally”, “cheated” or gained any sporting advantage through the historic use of EBT payments.

The Lord Nimmo Smith tribunal dealt comprehensively with this matter and, as the SFA has correctly reiterated, is final and binding.

Despite this, we remain concerned that the SPFL board may attempt to act on behalf of Celtic in this matter. It is our belief that a small number of other SPFL clubs, including Aberdeen and Dundee Utd, would like to see them do so. We are also aware that historically the SPFL lawyer, Rod McKenzie has taken an extremely hostile attitude towards Rangers Football Club which we do not believe is founded in his legal opinions.

Should it be the case that the SPFL do decide to act for the benefit of Celtic, then the clubs represented on that board should be aware that Club 1872, and we are sure Rangers Football Club and the wider Rangers support, will use every legal means necessary to challenge those who promote, support or facilitate such a course of action.

That will include, but not be limited to, mounting a legal challenge to the SPFL, boycotting publications whose journalists misreport the facts of the matter and demanding SPFL and SFA investigations into any and all dubious actions by those clubs over the period of the last 50 years.

The investigations we will demand specifically involve, but are not limited to, the actions of several boards, individual board members and employees of Celtic Football Club, across a variety of issues which have been in the public domain for many years but never properly addressed by the football authorities.

We will also demand that the football authorities open multiple investigations and examine in public, and in detail, all deals which allowed Scottish football clubs to write off their debts and the fit and proper status of all majority and joint owners of SPFL clubs. We will not be lectured on integrity, sporting or otherwise, by the clubs involved.

The last time there was an attempt to steal our titles, those involved operated in an environment where Rangers and the Rangers support were in a state of turmoil. The focus of our support was in removing various unsavoury characters from within our own club. That will not be the case this time and any clubs, club officials and commentators involved in any such dishonest and self-serving campaign will be met by wide-ranging, robust, legal and economic challenges at every step of the way.

It would be our preference for Scottish football to return to a more normalised condition where sporting endeavour on the pitch is the source of rivalry between clubs. If that is not the wish of the wider Scottish footballing community then they will find us to be extremely committed opponents nonetheless.

54 and counting.

Issued by Supporters Voice Limited, a Club 1872 company.


They really are the most pompous pr!cks

[The Pointer]

N"........"
........

aughty name for dusky skinned individual.Bit long winded for a dug.

Guy Gibson's dug. Without scrolling through several other posts.

[Just Alf]

"54 and counting"

It's that comment that will always have me believing that voiding their tainted wins will hurt them the most...

Sent from my SM-G925F using Tapatalk

[Jack Hackett]

Nobody likes them and they don't care...

... aye, right! Just like they don't do walking away.

[Crazyhorse]

It worked with Henry Fonda in Once Upon A Time In The West, but in the main I agree.

One of the great reveals in movie history.

"What're we gonna do with this one Frank?"

[Crazyhorse]

"54 and counting"

It's that comment that will always have me believing that voiding their tainted wins will hurt them the most...

Sent from my SM-G925F using Tapatalk

The big problem is that it is down to us fans again. I'm sad to see that our senior management don't have the balls (so far) to state a position on this. Unfortunately unlike The attempt to get newco into the top league the timing is less favourable - SPFL clubs now have the majority of their season ticket money in. The financial leverage fans had last time is missing. It will be down to petitions and protests.

[Ozyhibby]

The big problem is that it is down to us fans again. I'm sad to see that our senior management don't have the balls (so far) to state a position on this. Unfortunately unlike The attempt to get newco into the top league the timing is less favourable - SPFL clubs now have the majority of their season ticket money in. The financial leverage fans had last time is missing. It will be down to petitions and protests.

Disappointed we have not heard from Hibs in this. With 90% of fans in favour of a new enquiry it would be nice if they could let the fans know the clubs position.


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[Tyler Durden]

Club 1872 statement :coffee:

Club 1872 Statement on 'Big Tax Case' Verdict

Club 1872 has taken some time to consider the verdict in the ‘Big Tax Case’ (BTC) as we wanted to gauge the immediate reaction of sections of the media, Scottish football clubs, their supporters groups and the Scottish football authorities. That reaction has been, in the main, as hysterical, inaccurate and agenda driven as we expected. It appears there is still a desire in certain quarters for Scottish football to eat itself alive.

Contrary to the line taken by several dishonest media commentators, encouraged predominantly by Peter Lawwell and Celtic Football Club, this result does not mean that Rangers have “broken the law”, “acted illegally”, “cheated” or gained any sporting advantage through the historic use of EBT payments.

The Lord Nimmo Smith tribunal dealt comprehensively with this matter and, as the SFA has correctly reiterated, is final and binding.

Despite this, we remain concerned that the SPFL board may attempt to act on behalf of Celtic in this matter. It is our belief that a small number of other SPFL clubs, including Aberdeen and Dundee Utd, would like to see them do so. We are also aware that historically the SPFL lawyer, Rod McKenzie has taken an extremely hostile attitude towards Rangers Football Club which we do not believe is founded in his legal opinions.

Should it be the case that the SPFL do decide to act for the benefit of Celtic, then the clubs represented on that board should be aware that Club 1872, and we are sure Rangers Football Club and the wider Rangers support, will use every legal means necessary to challenge those who promote, support or facilitate such a course of action.

That will include, but not be limited to, mounting a legal challenge to the SPFL, boycotting publications whose journalists misreport the facts of the matter and demanding SPFL and SFA investigations into any and all dubious actions by those clubs over the period of the last 50 years.

The investigations we will demand specifically involve, but are not limited to, the actions of several boards, individual board members and employees of Celtic Football Club, across a variety of issues which have been in the public domain for many years but never properly addressed by the football authorities.

We will also demand that the football authorities open multiple investigations and examine in public, and in detail, all deals which allowed Scottish football clubs to write off their debts and the fit and proper status of all majority and joint owners of SPFL clubs. We will not be lectured on integrity, sporting or otherwise, by the clubs involved.

The last time there was an attempt to steal our titles, those involved operated in an environment where Rangers and the Rangers support were in a state of turmoil. The focus of our support was in removing various unsavoury characters from within our own club. That will not be the case this time and any clubs, club officials and commentators involved in any such dishonest and self-serving campaign will be met by wide-ranging, robust, legal and economic challenges at every step of the way.

It would be our preference for Scottish football to return to a more normalised condition where sporting endeavour on the pitch is the source of rivalry between clubs. If that is not the wish of the wider Scottish footballing community then they will find us to be extremely committed opponents nonetheless.

54 and counting.

Issued by Supporters Voice Limited, a Club 1872 company.

It's hilarious how they always threaten boycotts and economic sanctions as if they were the US government or something. Rather than the sanctimonious jakey knuckle draggers we know so well

[IanM]

Seen this on Twitter..

Class action lawsuit being prepared by Celtic FC PLC shareholders against Rangers IL following tax case ruling.Porto also engaged UK counsel

No substance from the tweet but interesting if true

[CropleyWasGod]

Seen this on Twitter..

Class action lawsuit being prepared by Celtic FC PLC shareholders against Rangers IL following tax case ruling.Porto also engaged UK counsel

No substance from the tweet but interesting if true
Not sure that a class action against a company in liquidation is allowed. They can make a claim in the liquidation, and if that is rejected they can appeal to the Courts ...as Wavetower have done.



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[Keith_M]

Seen this on Twitter..

Class action lawsuit being prepared by Celtic FC PLC shareholders against Rangers IL following tax case ruling.Porto also engaged UK counsel

No substance from the tweet but interesting if true


If true, that would be quite funny

[Mr White]

Disappointed we have not heard from Hibs in this. With 90% of fans in favour of a new enquiry it would be nice if they could let the fans know the clubs position.


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Given the existing tension and potential for trouble at Ibrox on 12th August I'd be very surprised if Hibs pass comment on this. Other than ramping up the security risk to our travelling supporters what would it achieve?

[Ozyhibby]

Given the existing tension and potential for trouble at Ibrox on 12th August I'd be very surprised if Hibs pass comment on this. Other than ramping up the security risk to our travelling supporters what would it achieve?

We are only going to get another enquiry if the clubs back it. Having a major club like Hibs come out in favour could persuade others it's the right thing to do.
To not do so for the reasons you suggest only sends a message to Sevconians that their violence and intimidation works. We should be a club that stands up for truth and justice, not cower in a corner.

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[Mr White]

We are only going to get another enquiry if the clubs back it. Having a major club like Hibs come out in favour could persuade others it's the right thing to do.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

I suspect that from the club's point of view it doesn't make any sense to comment. It carries risk with little or no potential benefit.

[Ozyhibby]

I suspect that from the club's point of view it doesn't make any sense to comment. It carries risk with little or no potential benefit.

Hard to tell given the lack of communication from the club with the fans on this issue.


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[Bostonhibby]

Related to a hun who isn't really that bothered about them these days, he takes his daughters to ER to avoid the "atmosphere" at ibrox.

He made a good point that the authorities will take no real action as riding out the small storm,that will die away, from all the other fans is a less intimidating option than having the polarised Peepul mounting a vicious campaign against them.



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[Skol]

I do find this all laughable, on both sides with all the posturing.

Its clear to me that:

a) They cheated
b) They went out of business/defunct
c) Reformed as a new club but claimed their history while jettisoning debt

I dont need the Legal or SPFL rules to make decisions, I know that their victories were tainted.

Arguably though you could say the same for us when we went out of existence for a few years and we are not the same club that won that first Scottish Cup. Doesnt bother me a jot though. Its the here and now that matters.

[Crazyhorse]

I do find this all laughable, on both sides with all the posturing.

Its clear to me that:

a) They cheated
b) They went out of business/defunct
c) Reformed as a new club but claimed their history while jettisoning debt

I dont need the Legal or SPFL rules to make decisions, I know that their victories were tainted.

Arguably though you could say the same for us when we went out of existence for a few years and we are not the same club that won that first Scottish Cup. Doesnt bother me a jot though. Its the here and now that matters.

All of that is irrelevant to the issue of a decade of deliberate mid-registration of players. That is why the titles and cups should be stripped.

[HoboHarry]

I do find this all laughable, on both sides with all the posturing.

Its clear to me that:

a) They cheated
b) They went out of business/defunct
c) Reformed as a new club but claimed their history while jettisoning debt

I dont need the Legal or SPFL rules to make decisions, I know that their victories were tainted.

Arguably though you could say the same for us when we went out of existence for a few years and we are not the same club that won that first Scottish Cup. Doesnt bother me a jot though. Its the here and now that matters.
I am thinking that you have missed the main point entirely.

[jacomo]

All of that is irrelevant to the issue of a decade of deliberate mid-registration of players. That is why the titles and cups should be stripped.


:agree:

This is the key issue.

They concealed full details of their player contracts from the authorities. This surely means their players weren't properly registered and therefore ineligible?

Teams have been thrown out of Scottish competitions for fielding one ineligible player. Rangers had a squad of them.

[Hibs Class]

I am thinking that you have missed the main point entirely.

:agree:

[Hibs Class]

:agree:

This is the key issue.

They concealed full details of their player contracts from the authorities. This surely means their players weren't properly registered and therefore ineligible?

Teams have been thrown out of Scottish competitions for fielding one ineligible player. Rangers had a squad of them.

:agree: Thrown out of cup competitions, docked points for single game transgressions and imposed fines which were punitive in comparison to their turnover.

[grunt]

Teams have been thrown out of Scottish competitions for fielding one ineligible player. Rangers had a squad of them.Spartans were bumped from a cup competition because a player's papers had only one signature instead of two. I think that was it.

[MichaelTheCelt]

Not sure if this has been posted, won't bother going back to see if it has (my browser is going at a snails pace at the moment)

The Rangers EBT scandal could go international if rumours that Porto are about to take action.
While the SFA and their member clubs take a very laid back approach to rule breaking the Portuguese side are believed to be ready to push for confirmation that they lost out on a place in the last 16 of the 2005/06 Champions League to a team of unregistered players.
Rangers (IL) famously won the 2004/05 SPL title at Easter Road on the final day of the season with every player on an ‘EBT’.


The following season Rangers (IL) pipped Porto to second place in their Champions League group costing the 2004 winners over £15m in prize money.
The tax scam of the Ibrox club failed on two grounds, firstly they didn’t declare details of the payments to the football authorities and secondly the payments were directly related to employment and not discretionary loans as the Supreme Court ruled last week.
If Porto push the matter UEFA will come down in their favour which could turn the spotlight onto the SFA rather than the club that was condemned to death by Her Majesty in June 2012 when she declined a CVA.
Had the SFA informed UEFA of the issue it may have been dealt with leniently but with the evidence out in the open since 2012 every match that Rangers played from the day Ronald de Boer joined the club is open to challenge.

https://videocelts.com/2017/07/blogs/latest-news/rangers-ebt-scandal-goes-international/

[lord bunberry]

Not sure if this has been posted, won't bother going back to see if it has (my browser is going at a snails pace at the moment)

The Rangers EBT scandal could go international if rumours that Porto are about to take action.
While the SFA and their member clubs take a very laid back approach to rule breaking the Portuguese side are believed to be ready to push for confirmation that they lost out on a place in the last 16 of the 2005/06 Champions League to a team of unregistered players.
Rangers (IL) famously won the 2004/05 SPL title at Easter Road on the final day of the season with every player on an ‘EBT’.
The following season Rangers (IL) pipped Porto to second place in their Champions League group costing the 2004 winners over £15m in prize money.
The tax scam of the Ibrox club failed on two grounds, firstly they didn’t declare details of the payments to the football authorities and secondly the payments were directly related to employment and not discretionary loans as the Supreme Court ruled last week.
If Porto push the matter UEFA will come down in their favour which could turn the spotlight onto the SFA rather than the club that was condemned to death by Her Majesty in June 2012 when she declined a CVA.
Had the SFA informed UEFA of the issue it may have been dealt with leniently but with the evidence out in the open since 2012 every match that Rangers played from the day Ronald de Boer joined the club is open to challenge.

https://videocelts.com/2017/07/blogs/latest-news/rangers-ebt-scandal-goes-international/
Watch them suddenly claim to be a different club if that happens.

[Kaiser1962]

Not sure if this has been posted, won't bother going back to see if it has (my browser is going at a snails pace at the moment)

The Rangers EBT scandal could go international if rumours that Porto are about to take action.
While the SFA and their member clubs take a very laid back approach to rule breaking the Portuguese side are believed to be ready to push for confirmation that they lost out on a place in the last 16 of the 2005/06 Champions League to a team of unregistered players.
Rangers (IL) famously won the 2004/05 SPL title at Easter Road on the final day of the season with every player on an ‘EBT’.
The following season Rangers (IL) pipped Porto to second place in their Champions League group costing the 2004 winners over £15m in prize money.
The tax scam of the Ibrox club failed on two grounds, firstly they didn’t declare details of the payments to the football authorities and secondly the payments were directly related to employment and not discretionary loans as the Supreme Court ruled last week.
If Porto push the matter UEFA will come down in their favour which could turn the spotlight onto the SFA rather than the club that was condemned to death by Her Majesty in June 2012 when she declined a CVA.
Had the SFA informed UEFA of the issue it may have been dealt with leniently but with the evidence out in the open since 2012 every match that Rangers played from the day Ronald de Boer joined the club is open to challenge.

https://videocelts.com/2017/07/blogs/latest-news/rangers-ebt-scandal-goes-international/

There's also the facts (they are established now) that Rangers were "obstructive, unhelpful and evasive" in the HMRC investigation. The side-letters were "actively concealed" until the City of London Police raid which would suggest they knew exactly what they were doing, if they didnt why conceal?

"Mr Red" was "obscurantist in the way he gave evidence" and tried to influence "Ms Crimson" and possibly "Mr Scarlett" in their giving of evidence.

It would appear that Lord Nimmo Smith's enquiry is fatally flawed and probably should never have been heard until the legality of Rangers actions was established.

There is a "victims" spreadsheet available on google docs (https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1dhAk4K4f1aaWIZScFH9QpCXx1W8a-802o60kS3BEOwI/htmlview) where someone attempts to put together which teams were affected (in Scotland) because of Rangers financial doping. I know its not really this simple but Hibs may have had two champions league campaigns at a time when we were, ironically, hamstrung for cash.

[Ozyhibby]

There's also the facts (they are established now) that Rangers were "obstructive, unhelpful and evasive" in the HMRC investigation. The side-letters were "actively concealed" until the City of London Police raid which would suggest they knew exactly what they were doing, if they didnt why conceal?

"Mr Red" was "obscurantist in the way he gave evidence" and tried to influence "Ms Crimson" and possibly "Mr Scarlett" in their giving of evidence.

It would appear that Lord Nimmo Smith's enquiry is fatally flawed and probably should never have been heard until the legality of Rangers actions was established.

There is a "victims" spreadsheet available on google docs (https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1dhAk4K4f1aaWIZScFH9QpCXx1W8a-802o60kS3BEOwI/htmlview) where someone attempts to put together which teams were affected (in Scotland) because of Rangers financial doping. I know its not really this simple but Hibs may have had two champions league campaigns at a time when we were, ironically, hamstrung for cash.

Absolutely, this was tax evasion not tax avoidance. The LNS enquiry must be set aside, anything else and we are just admitting the game is rigged in favour of Rangers.


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[Ozyhibby]

Lance Armstrong adopts the Sevco defence.
https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20170710/492520977613ff3a4ee4bd2354723854.jpg



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[Ozyhibby]

http://www.insideworldfootball.com/2016/05/06/rangers-tax-case-draws-calls-independent-inquiry-scottish-football/


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[Crazyhorse]

Lance Armstrong adopts the Sevco defence.
https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20170710/492520977613ff3a4ee4bd2354723854.jpg



Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Good one

[Crazyhorse]

Not sure if this has been posted, won't bother going back to see if it has (my browser is going at a snails pace at the moment)

The Rangers EBT scandal could go international if rumours that Porto are about to take action.
While the SFA and their member clubs take a very laid back approach to rule breaking the Portuguese side are believed to be ready to push for confirmation that they lost out on a place in the last 16 of the 2005/06 Champions League to a team of unregistered players.
Rangers (IL) famously won the 2004/05 SPL title at Easter Road on the final day of the season with every player on an ‘EBT’.
The following season Rangers (IL) pipped Porto to second place in their Champions League group costing the 2004 winners over £15m in prize money.
The tax scam of the Ibrox club failed on two grounds, firstly they didn’t declare details of the payments to the football authorities and secondly the payments were directly related to employment and not discretionary loans as the Supreme Court ruled last week.
If Porto push the matter UEFA will come down in their favour which could turn the spotlight onto the SFA rather than the club that was condemned to death by Her Majesty in June 2012 when she declined a CVA.
Had the SFA informed UEFA of the issue it may have been dealt with leniently but with the evidence out in the open since 2012 every match that Rangers played from the day Ronald de Boer joined the club is open to challenge.

https://videocelts.com/2017/07/blogs/latest-news/rangers-ebt-scandal-goes-international/

Where is the "rumour" mentioned from precisely?

[ian cruise]

Lance Armstrong adopts the Sevco defence.
https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20170710/492520977613ff3a4ee4bd2354723854.jpg



Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Thing is, that was pretty much his defence if I recall

[MichaelTheCelt]

Where is the "rumour" mentioned from precisely?

Couldn't tell you man, it's been floating about on Celtic forums and then that site that I linked put up an article. But the origins of the rumour I have no idea, could be twitter nonsense but I hope it isn't.

All that said, it wouldn't surprise me if Porto were looking into it. Folk were saying Eindhoven have cause to make a claim against the old club and its players too. This isn't going to go away for awhile yet and I am starting to believe the titles will be stripped and voided, just my own hunch though.

[CropleyWasGod]

Couldn't tell you man, it's been floating about on Celtic forums and then that site that I linked put up an article. But the origins of the rumour I have no idea, could be twitter nonsense but I hope it isn't.

All that said, it wouldn't surprise me if Porto were looking into it. Folk were saying Eindhoven have cause to make a claim against the old club and its players too. This isn't going to go away for awhile yet and I am starting to believe the titles will be stripped and voided, just my own hunch though.

Claims are one thing, and it would be up to the liquidator to adjudicate them. But there will be very little money, if that's what they're after. My only thought is that they might be looked upon as football creditors, but... that's another round of Court cases. :rolleyes:

Not sure why the players would be claimed against.

[traceyhibs]

Hard to tell given the lack of communication from the club with the fans on this issue.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Hi there,

Frank and I have been following this in all the forums and we will be discussing this at Board level at the next board meeting.

Thanks

Tracey and Frank


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[Jack Hackett]

http://www.insideworldfootball.com/2016/05/06/rangers-tax-case-draws-calls-independent-inquiry-scottish-football/


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Damning! Who are these people? Do they have any power?

[Ozyhibby]

Hi there,

Frank and I have been following this in all the forums and we will be discussing this at Board level at the next board meeting.

Thanks

Tracey and Frank


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Brilliant, thanks Tracey. It will be nice to hear from Hibs on this.
When is the next board meeting scheduled for?


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[Crazyhorse]

Couldn't tell you man, it's been floating about on Celtic forums and then that site that I linked put up an article. But the origins of the rumour I have no idea, could be twitter nonsense but I hope it isn't.

All that said, it wouldn't surprise me if Porto were looking into it. Folk were saying Eindhoven have cause to make a claim against the old club and its players too. This isn't going to go away for awhile yet and I am starting to believe the titles will be stripped and voided, just my own hunch though.

I hope you're right. Most Scottish clubs and our tainted football authorities seem to be sitting tight hoping this will blow over.
In my view this is the biggest corruption scandal in European football in my lifetime (think of the central role of Ogilvie) and I want to know HFC's position on it. I worked in Edinburgh and had a season ticket for most of that period yet every time we played Rangers they fielded a team of mis-registered players.

[Ozyhibby]

Damning! Who are these people? Do they have any power?

They are a Swiss magazine that covers the business side of Football. Probably the most widely read in the world although the business side of football would be a minority interest I think. Except in Scotland. [emoji23]


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[Crazyhorse]

Claims are one thing, and it would be up to the liquidator to adjudicate them. But there will be very little money, if that's what they're after. My only thought is that they might be looked upon as football creditors, but... that's another round of Court cases. :rolleyes:

Not sure why the players would be claimed against.

What about if Porto go along with the argument (which you also espouse) that they are the same club. Can they demand compensation for revenue lost?

[Crazyhorse]

Hi there,

Frank and I have been following this in all the forums and we will be discussing this at Board level at the next board meeting.

Thanks

Tracey and Frank


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

This is good to know.

When is the next board meeting Tracey?

[traceyhibs]

Brilliant, thanks Tracey. It will be nice to hear from Hibs on this.
When is the next board meeting scheduled for?


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Our next board meeting isn't until 31st July which I know seems a long way away. We feel it's one of the bigger issues and therefore needs to be addressed at this level.

We also have our update coming out that week and it will be addressed in there also.

Many thanks

Tracey


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[21.05.2016]

Our next board meeting isn't until 31st July which I know seems a long way away. We feel it's one of the bigger issues and therefore needs to be addressed at this level.

We also have our update coming out that week and it will be addressed in there also.

Many thanks

Tracey


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Well done, Tracey. Great to hear that the board are going to be made well aware of the fans feelings on this. I hope other fans across the country are doing the same with their board.

[southsider]

Our next board meeting isn't until 31st July which I know seems a long way away. We feel it's one of the bigger issues and therefore needs to be addressed at this level.

We also have our update coming out that week and it will be addressed in there also.

Many thanks

Tracey


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Hi Tracey, I am sure our board will stick up for our club. No whitewash, tell King to go do one. Strip then vullify all trophies "won" by cheating. And while [ am at it a points deduction for sectarian chanting too.

[Is It On....]

Hi Tracey, I am sure our board will stick up for our club. No whitewash, tell King to go do one. Strip then vullify all trophies "won" by cheating. And while [ am at it a points deduction for sectarian chanting too.

If Carlsberg did board meetings..

[Ozyhibby]

If Carlsberg did board meetings..

It's time for our board to stand up and be counted. We have talked about sporting integrity in the past, now is the time to show we actually mean it.


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[CropleyWasGod]

What about if Porto go along with the argument (which you also espouse) that they are the same club. Can they demand compensation for revenue lost?

I'd say yes.

But you can hear the sound of the "We're the same club" bus reversing already :greengrin And the sharp intake of breath of the lawyers (on both sides) as they count up the fees to be earned.

:worms:

[Is It On....]

I'd say yes.

But you can hear the sound of the "We're the same club" bus reversing already :greengrin And the sharp intake of breath of the lawyers (on both sides) as they count up the fees to be earned.

:worms:

Not to mention impartial accountants with an in depth knowledge of the subject ☺️

[CropleyWasGod]

Not to mention impartial accountants with an in depth knowledge of the subject ☺️

I'd still have the same view. If those clubs went after Newco, it would partly support that, no?

[Ozyhibby]

I'd still have the same view. If those clubs went after Newco, it would partly support that, no?

If it's deemed to be football debt then newco are liable anyway.


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[Crazyhorse]

I'd still have the same view. If those clubs went after Newco, it would partly support that, no?

They seem to have the following options:

1. We are the same club and must forfeit all titles/cups etc. "won" during the rule breaking period (2001-10) and pay out compensation to clubs across Europe.
2. We are not the same club and so far in our history (2012-17) we have won no major Scottish titles/cups.

[CropleyWasGod]

If it's deemed to be football debt then newco are liable anyway.


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Not quite.

Football creditors have preference in an insolvency situation, but it doesn't necessarily follow that a Newco would pick them up. In the Rangers case, it was paid by the Newco, as a requirement of the 5-way agreement, in order to get their licence. In Hearts' case, Budge paid it as part of the CVA deal.

These were different arrangements, but the similarity is that neither HAD to pay them legally. If neither had happened (eg no "follow-on" situation), the football debts would still have been paid by the liquidator/administrator in preference to other creditors.

In this rumoured Porto action, if they go after Newco, that's a third scenario IMO, where the creditor ignores the demise of the OldCo and goes for (in their eyes) the substance of their loss, rather than the legal form.If they go after the OldCo, they will be a preferential creditor, to the detriment of HMRC and all the other ordinary creditors.

[lapsedhibee]

To save me re-reading 38,000 posts ... how did the side letters originally come to light? I know it followed a polis raid on Ipox to investigate some dodgy boumsongness/bungsouness/whatevs, but how did it get into the public domain? Was it a SMSMer actually doing a proper job for once :faint:, or did a polisman turn Timmy, or did john james / Phil 3 names have a mole inside Ipox, orwot?

[Deansy]

http://www.insideworldfootball.com/2016/05/06/rangers-tax-case-draws-calls-independent-inquiry-scottish-football/


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(Commenting on the GFA's handling & performance of the entire saga)

' ............................... it is clear many elements of its operations and the regulatory decisions relating to them were extremely badly handled'

If they were 'badly handled' then they were intentionally done so - I never for one minute, since the Huns cheating emerged, fully belived that Regan & Co would deliver the justice that the Hun cheating merited !

[Ozyhibby]

To save me re-reading 38,000 posts ... how did the side letters originally come to light? I know it followed a polis raid on Ipox to investigate some dodgy boumsongness/bungsouness/whatevs, but how did it get into the public domain? Was it a SMSMer actually doing a proper job for once :faint:, or did a polisman turn Timmy, or did john james / Phil 3 names have a mole inside Ipox, orwot?

Phil Macgiollabhain first broke the story in 2010 and Rangerstaxcase blog followed ( https://rangerstaxcase.wordpress.com/2011/03/ ) in March 2011.


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[lapsedhibee]

Phil Macgiollabhain first broke the story in 2010 and Rangerstaxcase blog followed ( https://rangerstaxcase.wordpress.com/2011/03/ ) in March 2011.

Ta.

Not sure what the legal status of the LNS commission was, but hope there's a possibility of Campbell Ogilvie eventually getting done for contempt of something, as he clearly misled that inquiry.

I imagine that the current situation is that the Thes have told the SFA quite bluntly that if they go ahead with stripping titles then the Thes will drop all those in the SFA who previously lied and covered up for them into some very brown stuff.

I feel some blazer resignations coming soon.

[beensaidbefore]

As has been mentioned previously, there ciuld be a few ex players a bit worried. It seems that if old rangers cant make a satisfactory offer, it will be the players being pursued.

[beensaidbefore]

Not quite.

Football creditors have preference in an insolvency situation, but it doesn't necessarily follow that a Newco would pick them up. In the Rangers case, it was paid by the Newco, as a requirement of the 5-way agreement, in order to get their licence. In Hearts' case, Budge paid it as part of the CVA deal.

These were different arrangements, but the similarity is that neither HAD to pay them legally. If neither had happened (eg no "follow-on" situation), the football debts would still have been paid by the liquidator/administrator in preference to other creditors.

In this rumoured Porto action, if they go after Newco, that's a third scenario IMO, where the creditor ignores the demise of the OldCo and goes for (in their eyes) the substance of their loss, rather than the legal form.If they go after the OldCo, they will be a preferential creditor, to the detriment of HMRC and all the other ordinary creditors.


I think in this instance the players would be pursued by hmrc to recoup their losses. Lets hope so, a double whammy.

[21.05.2016]

As has been mentioned previously, there ciuld be a few ex players a bit worried. It seems that if old rangers cant make a satisfactory offer, it will be the players being pursued.

Sorry if this is a dumb question, I really don't know the ins and outs of the case but did the players KNOW they were being paid through illegal means? If they didn't then it's a little harsh to go after them personally. If they did however then yes indeed they are fair game and can't complain if they are pursued.

[Jack Hackett]

They are a Swiss magazine that covers the business side of Football. Probably the most widely read in the world although the business side of football would be a minority interest I think. Except in Scotland. [emoji23]


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Sorry. Didn't make myself clear... I was referring to the Tax Justice Network.

Just googled them... No powers, but at least it's an international organisation, highlighting the state of our football affairs

[brog]

Campbell Ogilvie, to be heavily involved with one club stiffing its' creditors is unfortunate. To be involved with 2, to be a shareholder in one while MD of the other, to be in receipt of an EBT & then to become President of the SFA is beyond parody.

[beensaidbefore]

Sorry if this is a dumb question, I really don't know the ins and outs of the case but did the players KNOW they were being paid through illegal means? If they didn't then it's a little harsh to go after them personally. If they did however then yes indeed they are fair game and can't complain if they are pursued.

As far as i am aware this was made known to the players. Hiw it was 'sold' to them as an idea may have varied. Been told .hmrc will not pursue both club and players. Club first, players if unsuccessful.

I stand to be corrected though.

[beensaidbefore]

Campbell Ogilvie, to be heavily involved with one club stiffing its' creditors is unfortunate. To be involved with 2, to be a shareholder in one while MD of the other, to be in receipt of an EBT & then to become President of the SFA is beyond parody.

Nothing to see here. Please move on.

[Smartie]

Sorry if this is a dumb question, I really don't know the ins and outs of the case but did the players KNOW they were being paid through illegal means? If they didn't then it's a little harsh to go after them personally. If they did however then yes indeed they are fair game and can't complain if they are pursued.

I'm not sure if you can plead ignorance.

At the end of the day, it is your arse that is on the line and it is up to you to appoint advisors, accountants etc that know their stuff.

Of course, if you do find yourself in bother as a result of advice you have been given I'm sure you could sue your advisors and depending on what position they officially hold they might have some sort of indemnity insurance.

My brother works down in London and when he started to get a few media gigs everyone used to say "oh, you should go to see Jimmy Carr's accountant".

He didn't, but I believe all of those who did ended up in a lot of trouble and had to find significant sums of money for Hector a few years down the line.

[CropleyWasGod]

As has been mentioned previously, there ciuld be a few ex players a bit worried. It seems that if old rangers cant make a satisfactory offer, it will be the players being pursued.
Not sure what you mean by "suitable offer".

The HMRC assessment has now been confirmed as due. The amount payable will go into the pot along with the other ordinary creditors, and be paid the same dividend as them.

The amount recovered will have little bearing on whether the players are being pursued. That's more to do with principles and HMRC's attitude.

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[Keith_M]

The 'Airdrie United' episode is proof that the SFA bent their rules to accommodate the new Rangers.


Airdieonians FC went bust and a new club was formed by the purchase of Clydebank FC and the associated SFA licence. This new club was not allowed to change their name from Clydebank to the name of the now defunct Airdrionians (because of SFA rules) so had to call themselves Airdrie United instead.

Fast forward to 2012 and Rangers FC went bust. A new entity was formed and, lo and behold, they were (unlike Airdrie) allowed to use the name of the former club.

Different situation? Well, the owners of Airdrie United weren't happy about it and asked again for the right to call their club Airdieonians. Basically, the SFA didn't have a leg to stand on and allowed the renaming, despite their former ruling.

[21.05.2016]

I'm not sure if you can plead ignorance.

At the end of the day, it is your arse that is on the line and it is up to you to appoint advisors, accountants etc that know their stuff.

Of course, if you do find yourself in bother as a result of advice you have been given I'm sure you could sue your advisors and depending on what position they officially hold they might have some sort of indemnity insurance.

My brother works down in London and when he started to get a few media gigs everyone used to say "oh, you should go to see Jimmy Carr's accountant".

He didn't, but I believe all of those who did ended up in a lot of trouble and had to find significant sums of money for Hector a few years down the line.

Agreed but many of them aren't particularly bright, many of them see the big money figures and grab it. Your right though, its their responsibility to ensure they aren't being roped into anything dodgy.


I suspect their will be a few of them keeping a low profile for a while.

[Jack Hackett]

Campbell Ogilvie, to be heavily involved with one club stiffing its' creditors is unfortunate. To be involved with 2, to be a shareholder in one while MD of the other, to be in receipt of an EBT & then to become President of the SFA is beyond parody.

To paraphrase W. Shakespeare "Something is rotten in the state of Scottish Football"

[Smartie]

Agreed but many of them aren't particularly bright, many of them see the big money figures and grab it. Your right though, its their responsibility to ensure they aren't being roped into anything dodgy.


I suspect their will be a few of them keeping a low profile for a while.

I suspect so.

Looking at the sums of money involved too, I can't imagine many of them will have that kind of money just lying around any more. If bills were to come their way then I suspect a few assets might have to be liquidised (?) to pay any forthcoming bills.

This, of course, may be the best bit of the whole saga so far. The players, the board and the advisors all paying lawyers fortunes whilst pointing fingers in every direction other than at themselves, whilst the hordes turn on anyone that they see fit to along the way.

Muchos popcorn required.

[Captain Trips]

Just in case tax is required to be paid Lee Wallace will be dropping by from time to time to help Mr Taxman out:

Nacho Novo Last seen in Belfast.

FYI

[Jack Hackett]

I note with interest that when Rangers were found guilty, the SFA issued a statement within hours stating that, after 'consideration' :rolleyes:, they would take no further action. The SPFL later released a statement saying they would 'consider' the implications... That was 5 days ago now, and not a cheep from them yet.

[Smartie]

I note with interest that when Rangers were found guilty, the SFA issued a statement within hours stating that, after 'consideration' :rolleyes:, they would take no further action. The SPFL later released a statement saying they would 'consider' the implications... That was 5 days ago now, and not a cheep from them yet.

To be fair to the SPFL there are some serious implications to be taken into consideration. To take a bit of time is 100% the right thing to do.

It was the SFA rushing out their nonsense on the day who were wrong.

[beensaidbefore]

Not sure what you mean by "suitable offer".

The HMRC assessment has now been confirmed as due. The amount payable will go into the pot along with the other ordinary creditors, and be paid the same dividend as them.

The amount recovered will have little bearing on whether the players are being pursued. That's more to do with principles and HMRC's attitude.

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Satisfactory, not suitable. If hmrc are satisfied that they have recouped 'enough' back. Who decides what is enough is another question.

I have heard that they are not intending to take more than what is 'fair'. That could mean pursuing individuals but not if they get a 'fair' amount from rangers. Make of that what you will.

[Fuzzywuzzy]

I suspect so.

Looking at the sums of money involved too, I can't imagine many of them will have that kind of money just lying around any more. If bills were to come their way then I suspect a few assets might have to be liquidised (?) to pay any forthcoming bills.

This, of course, may be the best bit of the whole saga so far. The players, the board and the advisors all paying lawyers fortunes whilst pointing fingers in every direction other than at themselves, whilst the hordes turn on anyone that they see fit to along the way.

Muchos popcorn required.


I believe Belize is nice......

[Jack Hackett]

To be fair to the SPFL there are some serious implications to be taken into consideration. To take a bit of time is 100% the right thing to do.

It was the SFA rushing out their nonsense on the day who were wrong.

It was more the speed of the 'do' SFA's response I was having the bigger dig at, hence the :rolleyes:

I'm actually hoping the SPFL are taking so long because they realise they're up the proverbial creek, and will have to do something

Edit. The nonsense of the SFA's statement, is that Ogilvy was up to his neck in what was going on

[CropleyWasGod]

Satisfactory, not suitable. If hmrc are satisfied that they have recouped 'enough' back. Who decides what is enough is another question.

I have heard that they are not intending to take more than what is 'fair'. That could mean pursuing individuals but not if they get a 'fair' amount from rangers. Make of that what you will.
It was the word "offer" that jumped out at me, since it has a particular connotation in the tax context. The opportunity for Oldco to make any kind of offer passed many years ago.

HMRC won't actually know how much they are recouping for some time yet...maybe years. The Wavetower and Duff & Phelps cases still have to be settled before the creditors can get any sort of payout.



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[beensaidbefore]

It was the word "offer" that jumped out at me, since it has a particular connotation in the tax context. The opportunity for Oldco to make any kind of offer passed many years ago.

HMRC won't actually know how much they are recouping for some time yet...maybe years. The Wavetower and Duff & Phelps cases still have to be settled before the creditors can get any sort of payout.



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I'm not too up to speed on the correct terminology tbh. As you allude to though, the plan is not yet clear, which is why going after individuals could still be an option.

[Is It On....]

I'd still have the same view. If those clubs went after Newco, it would partly support that, no?

Indeed. I can't help thinking this is only start of the next chapter rather than the end of the story and that the SFA / SPFL could be moving towards a starring role. The potential for past indiscretions to be classed as football debt and therefore transferable to "NewCo" is always something I gave wondered about. On a connected matter, whatever happened to the money due to Rapid Vienna in respect of the Jelavic transfer in the dying days of Craig Whyte's reign?

[Offside Trap]

It was the word "offer" that jumped out at me, since it has a particular connotation in the tax context. The opportunity for Oldco to make any kind of offer passed many years ago.

HMRC won't actually know how much they are recouping for some time yet...maybe years. The Wavetower and Duff & Phelps cases still have to be settled before the creditors can get any sort of payout.



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Yip, and as I've mentioned earlier in this thread, there is the not insignificant matter of the Disguised Remuneration loan charge which means tax and NIC is due on any loans which remain outstanding to EBTs as at April 2019. I know CWG posted an earlier link in this thread to a general Deloitte article which concluded with a "might be difficult to enforce" view from Deloitte on the April 2019 loan charge. I am pretty sure that the Deloitte view will have moved on since that article... :wink:

So I think there is every chance that the requirement to satisfy the April 2019 loan charge to HMRC will arrive BEFORE any creditors' payout from the liquidation pot. If you were Hector what would you do? :greengrin

Or, thought about another way, if you were HMRC, would it pass the smell test to enforce the loan charge on other non-RFC EBT beneficiaries in April 2019 (of which there are thousands upon thousands across the UK and in which 99 times out of 100 the bill will ultimately be for the account of the employees/ex-employees themselves) yet somehow exempt the RFC loan beneficiaries (players, management) from the same charge just because their former employer went bust? Would seem to be a very unequal treatment...

Will be fascinating to see how HMRC play this one, particularly given how unusually public this case is....

[Ozyhibby]

https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20170710/45c6a0e66df5548ce89dc900a5d8e5e0.jpg
Old Rangers up in the Court of Session tomorrow. No idea what it's about.


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[CropleyWasGod]

https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20170710/45c6a0e66df5548ce89dc900a5d8e5e0.jpg
Old Rangers up in the Court of Session tomorrow. No idea what it's about.


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The Wavetower case?

Duff & Phelps?

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[Deansy]

We're all talking rubbish because according to an article in the 'Daily Rectum' (where else, of course !) with Arthur Numan who says -

'Title-stripping is nonsense because trophies were won fair and square'

You can't really argue with the fact that their players DID win their games/trophies and titles because they played the better football.

However, Arthur - and I strongly suspect, the 'Rectum' - all conveniently forget that the argument is that were it NOT for the dodgy tax-scheme, these players would NOT have been playing for Rangers - THAT wasn't 'fair and square' !

Oh aye,and Arthur himself was a recipient of some £510,000 via EBT according to whatever EBT-list of 'who-received-what' is genuine.


Just another day and another mis-leading/deflecting/biased article in the world of surely the world's most corrupt, inefficient, spineless 'Football Media' !

[Is It On....]

We're all talking rubbish because according to an article in the 'Daily Rectum' (where else, of course !) with Arthur Numan who says -

'Title-stripping is nonsense because trophies were won fair and square'

You can't really argue with the fact that their players DID win their games/trophies and titles because they played the better football.

However, Arthur - and I strongly suspect, the 'Rectum' - all conveniently forget that the argument is that were it NOT for the dodgy tax-scheme, these players would NOT have been playing for Rangers !

Oh aye,and Arthur himself was a recipient of some £510,000 via EBT according to whatever EBT-list of 'who-received-what' is genuine.


Just another day and another mis-leading/deflecting/biased article in the world of surely the world's most corrupt, inefficient, spineless 'Football Media' !

If Arthur was paid £510k via EBT..then he could be due that in unpaid tax and late payment fines..so the winning of titles are the last thing he should be worried about.

[lapsedhibee]

We're all talking rubbish because according to an article in the 'Daily Rectum' (where else, of course !) with Arthur Numan who says -

'Title-stripping is nonsense because trophies were won fair and square'

You can't really argue with the fact that their players DID win their games/trophies and titles because they played the better football.

However, Arthur - and I strongly suspect, the 'Rectum' - all conveniently forget that the argument is that were it NOT for the dodgy tax-scheme, these players would NOT have been playing for Rangers - THAT wasn't 'fair and square' !

Oh aye,and Arthur himself was a recipient of some £510,000 via EBT according to whatever EBT-list of 'who-received-what' is genuine.

Just another day and another mis-leading/deflecting/biased article in the world of surely the world's most corrupt, inefficient, spineless 'Football Media' !
Such an inane defence - which I think Chris Sutton also made, presumably just to be his usual controversialist self - to claim that things were won 'on the pitch' and ought therefore to stand. Every team that's ever been thrown out of a competition for a mis-registration could argue exactly the same - that it's unjust for a team who've won a match to be thrown out. That's the whole point - it's a punishment, you morons!

[Ozyhibby]

We're all talking rubbish because according to an article in the 'Daily Rectum' (where else, of course !) with Arthur Numan who says -

'Title-stripping is nonsense because trophies were won fair and square'

You can't really argue with the fact that their players DID win their games/trophies and titles because they played the better football.

However, Arthur - and I strongly suspect, the 'Rectum' - all conveniently forget that the argument is that were it NOT for the dodgy tax-scheme, these players would NOT have been playing for Rangers - THAT wasn't 'fair and square' !

Oh aye,and Arthur himself was a recipient of some £510,000 via EBT according to whatever EBT-list of 'who-received-what' is genuine.


Just another day and another mis-leading/deflecting/biased article in the world of surely the world's most corrupt, inefficient, spineless 'Football Media' !

Lance Armstrong and Ben Johnson said the same thing. [emoji23][emoji3]


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[tamig]

Such an inane defence - which I think Chris Sutton also made, presumably just to be his usual controversialist self - to claim that things were won 'on the pitch' and ought therefore to stand. Every team that's ever been thrown out of a competition for a mis-registration could argue exactly the same - that it's unjust for a team who've won a match to be thrown out. That's the whole point - it's a punishment, you morons!
Aye. And the key thing being that the likes of Numan and some of his colleagues wouldn't have been anywhere near that cesspit without that dodgy scheme topping up their earnings to acceptable levels.

[edinburghhibee]

The 'Airdrie United' episode is proof that the SFA bent their rules to accommodate the new Rangers.


Airdieonians FC went bust and a new club was formed by the purchase of Clydebank FC and the associated SFA licence. This new club was not allowed to change their name from Clydebank to the name of the now defunct Airdrionians (because of SFA rules) so had to call themselves Airdrie United instead.

Fast forward to 2012 and Rangers FC went bust. A new entity was formed and, lo and behold, they were (unlike Airdrie) allowed to use the name of the former club.

Different situation? Well, the owners of Airdrie United weren't happy about it and asked again for the right to call their club Airdieonians. Basically, the SFA didn't have a leg to stand on and allowed the renaming, despite their former ruling.





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[Ozyhibby]

Very detailed update from the Celtic shareholders pursuing the fraudulent awarding of Rangers UEFA license in 2011/12.
I think Celtic will now act on this.
http://www.celticquicknews.co.uk/official-update-to-res12-july-2017/


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[JeMeSouviens]

Very detailed update from the Celtic shareholders pursuing the fraudulent awarding of Rangers UEFA license in 2011/12.
I think Celtic will now act on this.
http://www.celticquicknews.co.uk/official-update-to-res12-july-2017/


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is there a TL;DR ? :wink:

[Ozyhibby]

https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20170711/a28ce889ac1951a9a18cca6184f7f933.jpg
Sevco 5088 accounts out today. Now that Craig Whyte is in the clear we may see some action with them.


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[Keith_M]

https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20170711/a28ce889ac1951a9a18cca6184f7f933.jpg
Sevco 5088 accounts out today. Now that Craig Whyte is in the clear we may see some action with them.


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Sorry Ozzy but I've lost track a bit;

Who is currently the owner of Sevco 5088 Ltd, is it still Whyte?

[FilipinoHibs]

Sorry Ozzy but I've lost track a bit;

Who is currently the owner of Sevco 5088 Ltd, is it still Whyte?

Green & Whyte

[Keith_M]

Green & Whyte


:greengrin

[CropleyWasGod]

Sorry Ozzy but I've lost track a bit;

Who is currently the owner of Sevco 5088 Ltd, is it still Whyte?

The main shareholder in Sevco5088 is Law Financial.

The main shareholder in Law Financial is the Worthington Group.

The Worthington Group is in liquidation :greengrin

[Ozyhibby]

Sorry Ozzy but I've lost track a bit;

Who is currently the owner of Sevco 5088 Ltd, is it still Whyte?

Aiden Early, Douglas Ware, Law Financial, etc.
https://beta.companieshouse.gov.uk/company/08011390/officers



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[CropleyWasGod]

Aiden Early, Douglas Ware, Law Financial, etc.
https://beta.companieshouse.gov.uk/company/08011390/officers



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Early and Ware are directors, not shareholders.

The company has £10,001 of shares. Law Financial have £10k, and the other is owned by Charles Green. :greengrin

[Colr]

If the titles are stripped, do the players have to give their medals back?

[HoboHarry]

I have no way of verifying this story of course, but lovely to think there may be a split in the camp already.......

https://philmacgiollabhain.ie/2017/07/12/a-poundshop-mourinho/

[MichaelTheCelt]

I have no way of verifying this story of course, but lovely to think there may be a split in the camp already.......

https://philmacgiollabhain.ie/2017/07/12/a-poundshop-mourinho/

I have been thinking that something like this would happen provided it is true, and hopefully it is cause next season could be a disaster for the The Rangers :greengrin. Tell you one thing though they will play a lot dirtier than usual I suspect.

[HoboHarry]

Latest from JJ. Some of his articles are questionable at best but he is correct in commenting on the silence from Hibs and Hearts with regard to the title stripping question. I have to say that I am not enjoying the silence either......

https://johnjamessite.com/

[CropleyWasGod]

Latest from JJ. Some of his articles are questionable at best but he is correct in commenting on the silence from Hibs and Hearts with regard to the title stripping question. I have to say that I am not enjoying the silence either......

https://johnjamessite.com/
Tracey was on to say that the Board will be discussing it at their next meeting.

At club level, isn't it only Celtic that have commented?

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[HoboHarry]

Tracey was on to say that the Board will be discussing it at their next meeting.

At club level, isn't it only Celtic that have commented?

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I believe so - Aberdeen and Dundee United fans put out their own statements and good on them for that. The silence from Hibs (and Hibs.net for that matter) is a source of disappointment for me and does nothing for sporting integrity which we were proclaiming loudly when Sevco were trying to gain admittance back into the league.....

[marinello59]

I believe so - Aberdeen and Dundee United fans put out their own statements and good on them for that. The silence from Hibs (and Hibs.net for that matter) is a source of disappointment for me and does nothing for sporting integrity which we were proclaiming loudly when Sevco were trying to gain admittance back into the league.....

Just to clarify, the Admin team at hibs.net are not here act as spokespersons for the support, we simply provide a platform for all Hibs fans to make their views known.

[HoboHarry]

Just to clarify, the Admin team at hibs.net are not here act as spokespersons for the support, we simply provide a platform for all Hibs fans to make their views known.
I understand that in normal circumstances but on an issue as monumental as this, every fans group in the country should be making a statement IMHO.

[Smartie]

Latest from JJ. Some of his articles are questionable at best but he is correct in commenting on the silence from Hibs and Hearts with regard to the title stripping question. I have to say that I am not enjoying the silence either......

https://johnjamessite.com/

None of us will be particularly enjoying the silence but Hibs are not exactly going out on a limb in maintaining a silence. Celtic are the only club to comment so far, and have so far done only that - made a comment, a statement without pushing for or demanding anything significant. No other club has officially commented, although I accept that some other fans groups have been commenting.

I really didn't like his comment about Budge and Dempster being seduced by the blue pound. It is total, complete and utter nonsense. There may be many reasons for the silence but to suggest that the blue pound has any effect in this context is nonsense.

The fact that he managed to squeeze some casual sexism into the sentence with his reference to raising a plucked eyebrow just went to show how much of a total helmet JJ is.

[BigKev]

I understand that in normal circumstances but on an issue as monumental as this, every fans group in the country should be making a statement IMHO.

If that was the case it'd be the HSA who commented.... not Hibs.net.

[HoboHarry]

None of us will be particularly enjoying the silence but we're not exactly going out on a limb in doing so. Celtic are the only club to comment so far although some other fans groups have been commenting.

I really didn't like his comment about Budge and Dempster being seduced by the blue pound. It is total, complete and utter nonsense. There may be many reasons for the silence but to suggest that the blue pound has any effect in this context is nonsense.

The fact that he managed to squeeze some casual sexism into the sentence with his reference to raising a plucked eyebrow just went to show how much of a total helmet JJ is.
I agree with you for the most part Smartie but the fact remains that JJ can make these comments because we (Hibs) have been utterly silent which gives bloggers like JJ the room to invent reasons in the absence of any real facts.

[marinello59]

None of us will be particularly enjoying the silence but Hibs are not exactly going out on a limb in maintaining a silence. Celtic are the only club to comment so far, and have so far done only that - made a comment, a statement without pushing for or demanding anything significant. No other club has officially commented, although I accept that some other fans groups have been commenting.

I really didn't like his comment about Budge and Dempster being seduced by the blue pound. It is total, complete and utter nonsense. There may be many reasons for the silence but to suggest that the blue pound has any effect in this context is nonsense.

The fact that he managed to squeeze some casual sexism into the sentence with his reference to raising a plucked eyebrow just went to show how much of a total helmet JJ is.

His comments about Budge and Dempster are shocking. Made up sexist crap.

[HoboHarry]

If that was the case it'd be the HSA who commented.... not Hibs.net.
I said every fans group in the country should be commenting and they should. Cheating by Sevco on an industrial scale and we have near silence.

[Sioux]

Bloggers like JJ rely on comments like yours. He and his ilk light the blue touchpaper and stand back whilst the gullible.......................................... .

[Ozyhibby]

Although it's taking longer than I would like, Tracey did say there was a board meeting on the 30th and that it was on the agenda and that they would make the position clear to the fans after that.
It's taken 5 years to get this far so I can wait a little bit longer. So long as they make the right decision. [emoji3]


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[Ronniekirk]

I said every fans group in the country should be commenting and they should. Cheating by Sevco on an industrial scale and we have near silence.

There was a petition that someone put on one of the threads for fans to sign about this issue , although think it was a Celtic Supporter that started it

[HoboHarry]

Bloggers like JJ rely on comments like yours. He and his ilk light the blue touchpaper and stand back whilst the gullible.......................................... .
As nonsensical comments go, yours is right up there with the best. Gullible in what way? For complaining that Sevco got away for years with side letters? Lol, lol and lol again..... :faf:

[Billy Whizz]

I'd rather we wait until after the Rangers away game to make any comment anyway. Going to be a bad atmosphere at this game, without adding to it for the visiting Hibs support

[Ozyhibby]

There are so many mistakes in that article that it's hard to take the guy seriously.

He spoke to his fellow countryman in Spanish? Why not Portugese?

It might have been one of the Mexicans?


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[HoboHarry]

There are so many mistakes in that article that it's hard to take the guy seriously.

He spoke to his fellow countryman in Spanish? Why not Portugese?

It could have been a Mexican he was talking to? Believe he has signed at least one.......

[Sioux]

As nonsensical comments go, yours is right up there with the best. Gullible in what way? For complaining that Sevco got away for years with side letters? Lol, lol and lol again..... :faf:

As nonsensical comments go, yours is at the top:faf: :faf: :faf:

For the avoidance of doubt, your phrase has no sense at all and JJ relies on people like you trying to infiltrate the minds of others whilst leading the charge from the front.

Signed
JJ

[ancient hibee]

It could have been a Mexican he was talking to? Believe he has signed at least one.......
But a Mexican won't be his fellow countryman will he?

[brog]

I believe so - Aberdeen and Dundee United fans put out their own statements and good on them for that. The silence from Hibs (and Hibs.net for that matter) is a source of disappointment for me and does nothing for sporting integrity which we were proclaiming loudly when Sevco were trying to gain admittance back into the league.....

Have you read the transfer threads recently? No one can agree on anything! The chances of getting agreement on a statement re this issue would be extremely problematic & just who would do it? Effectively we all own Hibs Net so anyone of us could in principle produce a statement & submit it for approval. Over to you HH.

[CropleyWasGod]

As nonsensical comments go, yours is at the top:faf: :faf: :faf:

For the avoidance of doubt, your phrase has no sense at all and JJ relies on people like you trying to infiltrate the minds of others whilst leading the charge from the front.

Signed
JJ

No sense? Sevco did; that was one of the central planks of of the HMRC case, and one of the bases for claiming that they cheated.

[HoboHarry]

Have you read the transfer threads recently? No one can agree on anything! The chances of getting agreement on a statement re this issue would be extremely problematic & just who would do it? Effectively we all own Hibs Net so anyone of us could in principle produce a statement & submit it for approval. Over to you HH.
I already offered to do just that and Ozy was the only one who replied......

[ancient hibee]

Have you read the transfer threads recently? No one can agree on anything! The chances of getting agreement on a statement re this issue would be extremely problematic & just who would do it? Effectively we all own Hibs Net so anyone of us could in principle produce a statement & submit it for approval. Over to you HH.
Could I be the first to say that I object to the content of any statement claiming to be on my behalf.:greengrin

[brog]

But a Mexican won't be his fellow countryman will he?

There's some confusion here. The article talks about the manager talking in Spanish to a Hispanic player. It also talks about someone intervening on behalf of their fellow countryman. That comment I believe refers to the UK players who have split from the new imports. It's a tad confusing but I think I just about understand it now.

[brog]

I already offered to do just that and Ozy was the only one who replied......

We can't really accept your offer before we see what you write.

[Ozyhibby]

Any statement from Hibs.net would have to make clear that it only represents the 89% of Hibs.netters who voted in favour of stripping titles.


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[ancient hibee]

Any statement from Hibs.net would have to make clear that it only represents the 89% of Hibs.netters who voted in favour of stripping titles.


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You should be be a politician.Maybe you are.What you mean is the 89percent of those that completed the poll.A little different from 89percent of Hibs.netters.How about making clear that it doesn't represent the views of the 90 percent of Hibs netters who didn't bother completing it.

[HoboHarry]

We can't really accept your offer before we see what you write.

I had assumed that what I would have written would have been for approval, but I'm not spending two or three hours of my life writing something that will end up in an electronic trash can. There does not seem to be any real appetite amongst .netters to get involved.

[Topographic Hibby]

According to JJ, Hibs and Hearts are not commenting for fear of the blue pound. And a commenter adds that our silence means we are worthy of a green pound boycott.

Perhaps holders of green and blue pounds may wish to tot-up how many games in the last three years their teams have played at ER. A handful of TRFC games and zero Celtic games.

We have gotten-by fairly well without blue and green pounds thank you very much. This year, there is every liklihood of games being swapped for TV, which will generate a bit of extra cash to offset reduced attendances. If you wish to stay away, then this will reduce our costs in stewarding, policing, reduce the posionous atmosphere both sets of fans bring and allow more spaces for us to sell to Hibs supporters, just like we did last season against St Mirren with their stripey black and white pounds.

And another thing, since when did the Royal Mint start issuing money in custom colours for football fans?? Full of their usual pompous self importance - they really are two cheeks of the same backside.

[grunt]

According to JJ, Hibs and Hearts are not commenting for fear of the blue pound. And a commenter adds that our silence means we are worthy of a green pound boycott.Your first mistake was reading JJ's site.

Actually, come to think of it, that was your only mistake.

Does he still say that there's a contract out on him?

[brog]

I had assumed that what I would have written would have been for approval, but I'm not spending two or three hours of my life writing something that will end up in an electronic trash can. There does not seem to be any real appetite amongst .netters to get involved.

That's pretty much what I was trying to say to you. I share your loathing of Sevco but it would be really difficult for us as a fans' group to do anything more than put pressure on our club.

[Ozyhibby]

I no longer read JJ. He's a clown best ignored.


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[MichaelTheCelt]

According to JJ, Hibs and Hearts are not commenting for fear of the blue pound. And a commenter adds that our silence means we are worthy of a green pound boycott.

Perhaps holders of green and blue pounds may wish to tot-up how many games in the last three years their teams have played at ER. A handful of TRFC games and zero Celtic games.

We have gotten-by fairly well without blue and green pounds thank you very much. This year, there is every liklihood of games being swapped for TV, which will generate a bit of extra cash to offset reduced attendances. If you wish to stay away, then this will reduce our costs in stewarding, policing, reduce the posionous atmosphere both sets of fans bring and allow more spaces for us to sell to Hibs supporters, just like we did last season against St Mirren with their stripey black and white pounds.

And another thing, since when did the Royal Mint start issuing money in custom colours for football fans?? Full of their usual pompous self importance - they really are two cheeks of the same backside.

If I were on the Hibs board and someone was handing me green and blue pounds I'd start asking questions.

[Pretty Boy]

I understand that in normal circumstances but on an issue as monumental as this, every fans group in the country should be making a statement IMHO.

As far as i'm concerned I, or the other admins, have no mandate to speak on behalf of the site. We differ from a group such as the HSA, for example, who have elections.

I'm here because I love Hibs and like talking about them at any opportunity, I also like the other discussion on the forum and I don't mind giving up a bit of my own time to keep something I enjoy ticking over. I have never felt Hibs.net speaks for, or hadsthe right to speak for or on behalf of either Hibs fans as a whole or the users of the forum. I'd go as far as to say that if that was a route others wanted to go down it would be time for me to call it a day.

This is a place for people to come and express their opinions about Hibs and football (primarily), it's not our remit to try to influence opinion or voice a collective opinion that not everyone may agree with.

[ancient hibee]

Excellent post :top marks

[Just Alf]

As far as i'm concerned I, or the other admins, have no mandate to speak on behalf of the site. We differ from a group such as the HSA, for example, who have elections.

I'm here because I love Hibs and like talking about them at any opportunity, I also like the other discussion on the forum and I don't mind giving up a bit of my own time to keep something I enjoy ticking over. I have never felt Hibs.net speaks for, or hadsthe right to speak for or on behalf of either Hibs fans as a whole or the users of the forum. I'd go as far as to say that if that was a route others wanted to go down it would be time for me to call it a day.

This is a place for people to come and express their opinions about Hibs and football (primarily), it's not our remit to try to influence opinion or voice a collective opinion that not everyone may agree with.

and that is exactly why this place is one of the best around :agree:

[ehf]

I no longer read JJ. He's a clown best ignored.


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I look at his site from time to time for amusement value. He's a delusional, attention-seeking welt. Basically just rehashes the same old stuff over and over gain, claiming he's in exile and has various contracts out on his life, moaning that folk won't donate money to him, threatening to close the site down, then postponing the threat ended closure endlessly.

[Topographic Hibby]

Your first mistake was reading JJ's site.

Actually, come to think of it, that was your only mistake.

TBH, I only really read it cause someone mentioned there was a Hibs reference on his latest post. Otherwise, not top of my reading list. Tend to find all his stuff a bit same-y. Lots of "in the know" stuff and self-referencing to previous posts. I can't keep up to date with who he is talking about half the time. Do any of his findings actually result in anything??

And the begging bowl requests.....oh boy......:rolleyes: