Generic Sevco / Rangers meltdown thread

[Seveno]

@alextomo will get to the bottom of this ;) Actually I'm glad of his impartiality neverthless clearly has his finger right on the pulse after admitting he knew little of Scottish football but he's on the money with this query...

"@fitbafan who is Chick Young?
TweetDeck • 13/03/2012 19:41"

It's a clever device that David Murray uses instead of toilet paper.

Walter Smith used to have one as well but he bequeathed it to Ally McCoist.

[CropleyWasGod]

@alextomo will get to the bottom of this ;) Actually I'm glad of his impartiality neverthless clearly has his finger right on the pulse after admitting he knew little of Scottish football but he's on the money with this query...

"@fitbafan who is Chick Young?
TweetDeck • 13/03/2012 19:41"

:top marks

[CropleyWasGod]

It's a clever device that David Murray uses instead of toilet paper.

Walter Smith used to have one as well but he bequeathed it to Ally McCoist.

Jeezo, you're a right grumpy bear the day, eh no? :greengrin

[Viva_Palmeiras]

There was me thinking it had Celtic/U2 connections.Turns out it's the Gers fighting fund collectors ;)

[Seveno]

Jeezo, you're a right grumpy bear the day, eh no? :greengrin

How dare you call me a 'bear' !

Right about the grumpy bit though. :aok:

[CropleyWasGod]

How dare you call me a 'bear' !

Right about the grumpy bit though. :aok:

Our own admins wouldn't let me call you a ****

Oh, they did!!

[green glory]

Anyone know if Chick's on Sportsound tonight?

[hibs0666]

Anyone know if Chick's on Sportsound tonight?

What has Chico been up to now the cheeky wee scamp?

[ancienthibby]

What has Chico been up to now the cheeky wee scamp?

This clown is not as you describe him!

He is part of the Scottish Football Blazer Brigade that cannot see past RFC as a primary component of everything in Scottish fitba'

The clown needs to be dumped - and soon!:agree:

[HibeesLA]

It could be anything, cobbled together by anyone, of course.

It could be pretty damning, though. :cb

If it is "real", this is "only" damning in terms of the SFA/SPL issues.

HMRC would be interested in both this and the workings of the Trust itself. As I understand things (and this may be urban myth, or maybe I dreamt it lol), the Tribunal have to look at every individual's situation in turn before they can come to a decision. Given the number of players (and, perhaps, executives) involved, one can understand why it is taking so long.

Interesting if this has been produced by a player saying they received this. It has no signature on it, and I can't remember my company ever giving me something that wasn't signed, even facsimile signature.

[PaulSmith]

Anyone know if Chick's on Sportsound tonight?


He has indeed, on about how David Murray still has a "masterplan". It's quite cringeworthy actually.

[greenginger]

Interesting if this has been produced by a player saying they received this. It has no signature on it, and I can't remember my company ever giving me something that wasn't signed, even facsimile signature.

Looks like a copy of a carbon copy, they are never signed in my experience.

[SurferRosa]

Listening to Sportsound here and they keep saying that if Cheats FC are liquidated, then HMRC get nothing. How is this? what happens to Ibrox, Murray Park and that big car park they own....i dont see how they would get nowt.

[TheEastTerrace]

Listening to Sportsound here and they keep saying that if Cheats FC are liquidated, then HMRC get nothing. How is this? what happens to Ibrox, Murray Park and that big car park they own....i dont see how they would get nowt.

Do yourself a favour mate and don't listen to the likes of Young, Traynor, et al.

Jim Spence is about the only guy on BBC Radio Scotland who asks any pertinent questions and I get the feeling he is hindered sometimes by editorial.

[WindyMiller]

Interesting that Reporting Scotland used the term "print media" when discussing SDM's statement.

Was Chico no invited?

[WindyMiller]

Do yourself a favour mate and don't listen to the likes of Young, Traynor, et al.

Jim Spence is about the only guy on BBC Radio Scotland who asks any pertinent questions and I get the feeling he is hindered sometimes by editorial.


:agree:

This is the only article I've found on the Beeb that actually properly covers the relevant points from a legal/financial aspect.

[green glory]

What did CY say tonight v what he said last night?

Oh aye and this from his Twitter. CY retweeted this so his sympathies are there for all to see.

https://twitter.com/millar_1984/status/169160025145737216

[down-the-slope]

The only problem is that the previous owner still thinks it is his house and will take legal action. The tax authorities thinks that they should have the house in lieu of unpaid taxes by the previous owner and the one before him.

The house costs around £6 million a year to run and another guy thinks that they have paid the rent in advance to use the hous for the next four years.

Yeah that'll be right!


:top marks Best concise post on how it stands :faf:

Other than bit about £6million cost ... bit light if they have been overspending by £1 million a month...more like £40/£50 :rolleyes:

Oh aye and the house has sitting tenents...who are a bunch of inbred Aerosols

[PaulSmith]

What did CY say tonight v what he said last night?

Oh aye and this from his Twitter. CY retweeted this so his sympathies are there for all to see.

https://twitter.com/millar_1984/status/169160025145737216

Chic Young isn't on twitter

[God Petrie]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1pDk75Y1SZ4&feature=youtube_gdata_player

[stantonhibby]

He has indeed, on about how David Murray still has a "masterplan". It's quite cringeworthy actually.


Indeed

If there was ever any doubt about CY's football allegiance this Administration has really brought through his true colours. And they certainly ain't black and white

[bighairyfaeleith]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1pDk75Y1SZ4&feature=youtube_gdata_player

Thats a belter:greengrin

[s.a.m]

Thats a belter:greengrin

"The queens 11? The queen wants her money ya ******g spoon. "
oOJONNY12Oo (http://www.hibs.net/user/oOJONNY12Oo)

[jgl07]

What did CY say tonight v what he said last night?

Oh aye and this from his Twitter. CY retweeted this so his sympathies are there for all to see.

https://twitter.com/millar_1984/status/169160025145737216

"We will never die the biggest footballing instatute can't die can't and won't no surrender watp"

Whatever is an 'instatute'? It probably describes Rangers.

And they "won't no surrender"!

And Chick is retweeting this?

[bighairyfaeleith]

"The queens 11? The queen wants her money ya ******g spoon. "
oOJONNY12Oo (http://www.hibs.net/user/oOJONNY12Oo)

yeah that had me laughing too, I haven't laughed so much since the hertz beautiful people at the beach episode:greengrin

[lyonhibs]

I got a text from a Hun mate saying that "Rangers are not technically in administration"

Is he slavering or have I missed a recent development?

[PaulSmith]

"We will never die the biggest footballing instatute can't die can't and won't no surrender watp"

Whatever is an 'instatute'? It probably describes Rangers.

And they "won't no surrender"!

And Chick is retweeting this?

Chic doesn't have a twitter account... Echo

[PatHead]

Anyone see the photo of the Official launch of Rangers fighting fund in the press today. Take a look at the spelling of Overseas. Really classy organisation this! If anyone can add the photo, please do?

[HNA4]

Anyone see the photo of the Official launch of Rangers fighting fund in the press today. Take a look at the spelling of Overseas. Really classy organisation this! If anyone can add the photo, please do?

http://i.dailymail.co.uk/i/pix/2012/03/13/article-2114395-1225FCCA000005DC-852_468x454.jpg

[ian cruise]

Also apparently the paypal address was wrong for 24hrs and some other guy has been getting the donations?

[PatHead]

http://i.dailymail.co.uk/i/pix/2012/03/13/article-2114395-1225FCCA000005DC-852_468x454.jpg

For anyone with eyesight like mine it is spelt Oversees rather than Overseas

[CropleyWasGod]

Also apparently the paypal address was wrong for 24hrs and some other guy has been getting the donations?

That'll be the Collyer Bristow Client Account. :rolleyes:

[Lofarl]

Rangers fans fighting fund? Is this a thing for them going back to Manchester?

[green glory]

Chic doesn't have a twitter account... Echo

Oh well it looked like it was.

[PaulSmith]

Rangers fans fighting fund? Is this a thing for them going back to Manchester?

You'd think that there would be a right few quid in it by now eh, £36k and that includes a two donations totalling £25k.

Also Paul Murray starting his fans share option at £1000 has not gone down too well

[Hibrandenburg]

You'd think that there would be a right few quid in it by now eh, £36k and that includes a two donations totalling £25k.

Also Paul Murray starting his fans share option at £1000 has not gone down too well

Just wait until Giro day and that figure will sky rocket.

[matty_f]

Just wait until Giro day and that figure will sky rocket.

They'll be sat trying to work out if Paypal take empty ginger bottles or Embassy Coupons.:agree:

[Danderhall Hibs]

They'll be sat trying to work out if Paypal take empty ginger bottles or Embassy Coupons.:agree:

Still by them using Paypal it does signal a change - it wasn't so long ago that they wouldn't have anything to do with the papes. :offski:

[matty_f]

Still by them using Paypal it does signal a change - it wasn't so long ago that they wouldn't have anything to do with the papes. :offski:

:hilarious:

[SteveHFC]

http://www.thescottishsun.co.uk/scotsol/homepage/sport/spl/4195873/Good-and-bad-news-for-Gers-fans.html

[jgl07]

I got a text from a Hun mate saying that "Rangers are not technically in administration"

Is he slavering or have I missed a recent development?

It was reported on the BBC News this evening.

I suspect that they misunderstood the situation over the application of Duff and Phelps to the Courts on Monday to regularize their position as Administrators without beholding to Whyte.

[cockneymike]

No he's not. He has recused himself from the RFC enquiry.

There isn't one into Hearts yet.

Interesting thing about Ogilvie is that he had come out earlier (according to this article quoting the tweets of Alex Thomson of Channel 4 http://www.thedrum.co.uk/news/2012/03/14/channel-4-correspondent-says-sfa-accused-him-lying-he-sought-rangers-answers) saying that he knew nothing of the EBTs and the SFA were saying that he hadn't stepped aside:
http://blogs.channel4.com/alex-thomsons-view/dangers-rangers-tax-shambles/850 a

but today's statement says that Ogilvie has stepped aside. So the question is, when did he step aside? Because if it is only today after SDM has come out and said that Ogilvie knew everything all along, then surely his time at the SFA is up, as he has been caught telling porkies, and he should be fired asap!!!!

[Spike Mandela]

Mr Adam isn't for letting Sir David off the hook........

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/football/article-2115140/Rangers-crisis-David-Murray-wrong--Hugh-Adam.html

[sadtom]

Also apparently the paypal address was wrong for 24hrs and some other guy has been getting the donations?


Oh its so much funnier than just that.

On the official Rangers website this bunch of amateurs (literally true in McMoists case:greengrin) advertised this. Alas for der stickies it should have had 'the' before 'bluenose'. So instead they have been donating to this company instead...

http://www.bluenose.co.uk/

'Mon the custards!
http://4.bp.blogspot.com/_l7np8SmZUlU/SPNtn5oLPzI/AAAAAAAABHc/7RhWx3nYAMI/s400/sue_pie2.jpg

You couldnt make it up.
We dont need to rip the peace out of them, when these balloons are doin' such a damn fine job themselves.

Not only that, but i'm informed (but cant confirm) that the said company is owned by none other than (drumroll...) TIMMY Mallet. :lolrangers:

I think a chant of 'We are the Paypal!' is in order next time they are in our vicinity.

To nick a quote fae a mate.
"The big top must stay open."

(I think a t-shirt with the above quote and photo of Mr Custard would go like hotcakes.:greengrin)

[kieran216]

Oh its so much funnier than just that.

On the official Rangers website this bunch of amateurs (literally true in McMoists case:greengrin) advertised this. Alas for der stickies it should have had 'the' before 'bluenose'. So instead they have been donating to this company instead...

http://www.bluenose.co.uk/

'Mon the custards!
http://4.bp.blogspot.com/_l7np8SmZUlU/SPNtn5oLPzI/AAAAAAAABHc/7RhWx3nYAMI/s400/sue_pie2.jpg

You couldnt make it up.
We dont need to rip the peace out of them, when these balloons are doin' such a damn fine job themselves.

Not only that, but i'm informed (but cant confirm) that the said company is owned by none other than (drumroll...) TIMMY Mallet. :lolrangers:

I think a chant of 'We are the Paypal!' is in order next time they are in our vicinity.

To nick a quote fae a mate.
"The big top must stay open."

(I think a t-shirt with the above quote and photo of Mr Custard would go like hotcakes.:greengrin)

Oh I just clicked on that www.bluenose.com (http://www.bluenose.com) link and absolutely lost control at the picture. I've got a ragin' chest infection the now too! Almost killed me! :-p

[Keith_M]

Oh I just clicked on that www.bluenose.com (http://www.bluenose.com) link and absolutely lost control at the picture. I've got a ragin' chest infection the now too! Almost killed me! :-p


You do realise that you typed in the wrong link?

But, yours is EVEN FUNNIER!

Quote from your link


"Unless your business is accounting or bookkeeping, keeping financial records probably is not what you do best."


:not worth

[dangermouse]

http://i.dailymail.co.uk/i/pix/2012/03/13/article-2114395-1225FCCA000005DC-852_468x454.jpg

Must have been prepared by a Celtc fan

[WindyMiller]

Fantasists;


Murray’s takeover plan includes a new share issue for Rangers which would be dependent on the administrators securing Whyte’s 85.3 per cent holding in the club, purchased from Sir David Murray for £1 last May.
“The administrators have to deliver Craig Whyte’s shares,” added Paul Murray. “They are confident of getting those shares from him.

[stokesmessiah]

Fantasists;


Murray’s takeover plan includes a new share issue for Rangers which would be dependent on the administrators securing Whyte’s 85.3 per cent holding in the club, purchased from Sir David Murray for £1 last May.
“The administrators have to deliver Craig Whyte’s shares,” added Paul Murray. “They are confident of getting those shares from him.

Could someone explain to me how they are planning to get them?

CWG that probably means you.

[CropleyWasGod]

Could someone explain to me how they are planning to get them?

CWG that probably means you.

Oh cheers, put the blame on me.

Ackcherly, I'm not too clear on this point. Cav might be your man for this.

Given that CW is unlikely to give up his shares voluntarily, unless it's for silly money, I am presuming that the admins are going down a Court route. This is a guess, but they may allege that CW broke the law in the way he went about the purchase of RFC, and thereby ask for his shares to be forfeited.

For my part, I am not convinced that he did break the law. I know Cav thinks that he did, and he's probably more clued up on that than I am.

[SurferRosa]

Just wait until Giro day and that figure will sky rocket.

:faf:

[greenginger]

If Duff and Phelps are technically (what ever that may mean )not the Clubs administrators are the fees they have racked up over the past month valid ?

Does Whyte still have the power to empty them and appoint a receiver or someone more amenable to Rangers shareholders mainly himself.

[green glory]

Alex Thomson/channel 4 are beginning filming in Glasgow on Monday. Looking into the 'fine red' and 'succulent lamb' culture.

[Seveno]

Oh cheers, put the blame on me.

Ackcherly, I'm not too clear on this point. Cav might be your man for this.

Given that CW is unlikely to give up his shares voluntarily, unless it's for silly money, I am presuming that the admins are going down a Court route. This is a guess, but they may allege that CW broke the law in the way he went about the purchase of RFC, and thereby ask for his shares to be forfeited.

For my part, I am not convinced that he did break the law. I know Cav thinks that he did, and he's probably more clued up on that than I am.

Would the shareholding revert to David Murray due to Whyte's failure to comply with the conditions of the SPA ?

Whyte would get his Pound back , of course. :cb

[Sergio sledge]

Oh cheers, put the blame on me.

Ackcherly, I'm not too clear on this point. Cav might be your man for this.

Given that CW is unlikely to give up his shares voluntarily, unless it's for silly money, I am presuming that the admins are going down a Court route. This is a guess, but they may allege that CW broke the law in the way he went about the purchase of RFC, and thereby ask for his shares to be forfeited.

For my part, I am not convinced that he did break the law. I know Cav thinks that he did, and he's probably more clued up on that than I am.

Is it not something to do with the fact that CW had given written agreements of levels of investment into the club as part of the takeover and if he didn't give this investment then the takeover agreement is null and void, meaning DM is still technically the owner of the club?

[Keith_M]

Fantasists;


Murray’s takeover plan includes a new share issue for Rangers which would be dependent on the administrators securing Whyte’s 85.3 per cent holding in the club, purchased from Sir David Murray for £1 last May.
“The administrators have to deliver Craig Whyte’s shares,” added Paul Murray. “They are confident of getting those shares from him.


Do they actually HAVE a quid?

[CropleyWasGod]

Is it not something to do with the fact that CW had given written agreements of levels of investment into the club as part of the takeover and if he didn't give this investment then the takeover agreement is null and void, meaning DM is still technically the owner of the club?

That's not breaking the law, though, which is the line I was going down. It's "merely" breaking a contract.

I can't see SDM wanting to have the takeover agreement set aside. Unless, of course, it's on a temporary basis with a view to selling it on to whoever.

[greenginger]

CW argument would be he increased the contracts of several senior players which counted as investment in the squad.

Besides, Murray was quoted as saying getting rid of Rangers was the best thing for his other businesses.


He would'nt take them back. :greengrin

[CropleyWasGod]

CW argument would be he increased the contracts of several senior players which counted as investment in the squad.

Besides, Murray was quoted as saying getting rid of Rangers was the best thing for his other businesses.


He would'nt take them back. :greengrin

He does do walking away.

(editor's note... no offence intended to SDM, but plenty meant to the Sloganista.)

[PatHead]

CW argument would be he increased the contracts of several senior players which counted as investment in the squad.

Besides, Murray was quoted as saying getting rid of Rangers was the best thing for his other businesses.


He would'nt take them back. :greengrin

But what if he could double his price and get £2. Might be attractive then.:devil:

[CropleyWasGod]

But what if he could double his price and get £2. Might be attractive then.:devil:

Ah now, Capital Gains Tax comes into play. Could make it a non-starter.

Oh wait, CW is exempt from paying any type of tax......

[green glory]

Porto now have an interest in the dual contract allegations.

http://www.philmacgiollabhain.ie/pesky-foreigners/#more-2292

[WindyMiller]

Porto now have an interest in the dual contract allegations.

http://www.philmacgiollabhain.ie/pesky-foreigners/#more-2292



Oh please let this be true. :pray:

I might even give up atheism.

:agree:

[CropleyWasGod]

Interesting article about Donald Muir, the Lloyds guy who effectively ran RFC for a couple of years.

http://www.heraldscotland.com/sport/opinion/donald-muir-the-banks-inside-man-at-ibrox-has-questions-to-answer.16995762

The second-last paragraph is significant for me.

So did Muir and Grier know that Whyte intended to fund the buy-out by flogging future season tickets rather than using his own money? How come Whyte felt he had the authority to go to Ticketus and get a £24m advance on the season tickets on April 7 last year, 28 days before the takeover went through? Ticketus had done previous deals with Rangers, remember. When Whyte offered to flog them Ibrox season tickets, it's unthinkable that they would do anything other than pick up the phone to someone at the club and check his authenticity and credentials to sell. If Lloyds were "running the club", and Muir was its man on the board, did he give that approval?

I've said this ad nauseam, but I can't conceive of any way that SDM/the Rangers Board couldn't have known, or at least wondered, about the Ticketus deal.

[down the slope]

Now Rangers are in dispute with ticketus !, http://news.stv.tv/scotland/west-central/300680-rangers-administrators-in-court-battle-with-ticketus-over-24m-season-tickets-deal/ how are they going to be part of the buyout if this is going on ?.

[green glory]

Now Rangers are in dispute with ticketus !, http://news.stv.tv/scotland/west-central/300680-rangers-administrators-in-court-battle-with-ticketus-over-24m-season-tickets-deal/ how are they going to be part of the buyout if this is going on ?.

If the Ticketud deal is undone it'll destroy Paul Murray and the Blue Knight's bid as Ticketus are involved in it. Leaving Brian Kennedy who by his own admission doesn't really want to buy the club. I forgot about the mystery buyers from America and Singapore though, but U suspect those are just enquiries/tabloid bullschect.

[CropleyWasGod]

Now Rangers are in dispute with ticketus !, http://news.stv.tv/scotland/west-central/300680-rangers-administrators-in-court-battle-with-ticketus-over-24m-season-tickets-deal/ how are they going to be part of the buyout if this is going on ?.

This was first mooted last week, before Ticketus and PM were reported to be working together.

First off, D&P have to be seen to be working for RFC's creditors. Therefore, if they can get out of paying Ticketus, then that's all good for the rest of the creditors. That has to be done irrespective of who wants to buy the club. If the admins win the case, then yeah, Ticketus will have to walk away.

Two points, though:-

1. Ticketus have said that they are confident they will win the case. If they do, there is no harm done to the Blue Knights' bid.

2. The admins will probably know by now who the serious bidders are. For all we know, it is somebody completely different who has the best case so far. In that event, it doesn't matter that this court action might P off Ticketus.

[Caversham Green]

Oh cheers, put the blame on me.

Ackcherly, I'm not too clear on this point. Cav might be your man for this.

Given that CW is unlikely to give up his shares voluntarily, unless it's for silly money, I am presuming that the admins are going down a Court route. This is a guess, but they may allege that CW broke the law in the way he went about the purchase of RFC, and thereby ask for his shares to be forfeited.

For my part, I am not convinced that he did break the law. I know Cav thinks that he did, and he's probably more clued up on that than I am.

Buck duly received. :wink:

CW/RFCG is certainly the owner of the shares at the moment, so D&P have no authority to sell them. I think what normally happens is that administrators facilitate the sale of shares and the old owners are usually only too happy to part with them. A company in administration is by definition insolvent and not a going concern, so the shares are worthless in open market terms and the value to buyers is in the potential of the rejuvenated post-administration company. If CW is not prepared to sell at a reasonable value D&P may have to liquidate on the grounds that the club has no viable future under his ownership.

The legality of CW's purchase is a difficult one - the general point of law is that a company cannot finance the purchase of its own shares. The Glazers got round this using a complicated corporate structure but that doesn't seem to be present in the Huns' case. CW could argue that RFC did not finance the share purchase, they simply paid off the LBG debt which is something they could have done regardless of the ownership situation. The counter argument is that the share purchase could only take place if LBG were paid off and the only reason the Ticketus deal happened was to facilitate the share purchase. I think it would take a court hearing to answer that properly.

BTW, I think the question mark over D&P's status as administrators is a red herring. The appointment was approved by the Court and recorded at Companies House. It has been very well publicised and D&P have been holding themselves out as administrators without objection so far. Their failure to inform the FSA, whilst being a strange lapse that must raise questions about their competence, was simply a procedural omission and I doubt if it would void their appointment. I suspect HMRC would have been all over it if it was that serious.

[CropleyWasGod]

Buck duly received. :wink:

CW/RFCG is certainly the owner of the shares at the moment, so D&P have no authority to sell them. I think what normally happens is that administrators facilitate the sale of shares and the old owners are usually only too happy to part with them. A company in administration is by definition insolvent and not a going concern, so the shares are worthless in open market terms and the value to buyers is in the potential of the rejuvenated post-administration company. If CW is not prepared to sell at a reasonable value D&P may have to liquidate on the grounds that the club has no viable future under his ownership.

The legality of CW's purchase is a difficult one - the general point of law is that a company cannot finance the purchase of its own shares. The Glazers got round this using a complicated corporate structure but that doesn't seem to be present in the Huns' case. CW could argue that RFC did not finance the share purchase, they simply paid off the LBG debt which is something they could have done regardless of the ownership situation. The counter argument is that the share purchase could only take place if LBG were paid off and the only reason the Ticketus deal happened was to facilitate the share purchase. I think it would take a court hearing to answer that properly.

BTW, I think the question mark over D&P's status as administrators is a red herring. The appointment was approved by the Court and recorded at Companies House. It has been very well publicised and D&P have been holding themselves out as administrators without objection so far. Their failure to inform the FSA, whilst being a strange lapse that must raise questions about their competence, was simply a procedural omission and I doubt if it would void their appointment. I suspect HMRC would have been all over it if it was that serious.

Yeah, that all makes sense. We differ, though, on the financing of the take-over. My simple mind tends to agree with CW on this one. As you say, this is the kind of thing that keeps lawyers in champagne.

[blindsummit]

Porto now have an interest in the dual contract allegations.

http://www.philmacgiollabhain.ie/pesky-foreigners/#more-2292

IMHO this is the best news yet in the whole story. Scrutiny from abroad is the only way Rankgers will get their just desserts, as the compliant Scottish establishment and media are hell bent on a coverup for their beloved "institution".

No such deference abroad.

Bring it on!

[green glory]

https://twitter.com/alextomo/status/180315265463107585

So HMRC are being interviewed for this documentary too. They sound encouragingly heartless.

[SteveHFC]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=endscreen&NR=1&v=5YESBUf9Cxk

[CropleyWasGod]

https://twitter.com/alextomo/status/180315265463107585

So HMRC are being interviewed for this documentary too. They sound encouragingly heartless.

Yeah, it's such a shame.

Questions should be asked.

Kicking them while they're down.

[SteveHFC]

http://www.huffingtonpost.co.uk/2012/03/15/rangers-administrators-in-talks-with-dating-site_n_1347400.html?1331827389&ncid=edlinkusaolp00000008 :faf::faf::faf:

http://i.huffpost.com/gen/534330/thumbs/r-RANGERS-SPONSER-large570.jpg

[CropleyWasGod]

http://www.huffingtonpost.co.uk/2012/03/15/rangers-administrators-in-talks-with-dating-site_n_1347400.html?1331827389&ncid=edlinkusaolp00000008 :faf::faf::faf:

http://i.huffpost.com/gen/534330/thumbs/r-RANGERS-SPONSER-large570.jpg

The Teddy Blues?:rolleyes:

[magpie1892]

http://www.scottishfa.co.uk/scottish_fa_news.cfm?page=721&newsCategoryID=1&newsID=9495

Oopsie.

[CropleyWasGod]

http://www.scottishfa.co.uk/scottish_fa_news.cfm?page=721&newsCategoryID=1&newsID=9495

Oopsie.

All good stuff.

I am intrigued, though, as to whether the SFA have the power to do anything to CW. AFAIK, he is no longer a director.

[Spike Mandela]

All good stuff.

I am intrigued, though, as to whether the SFA have the power to do anything to CW. AFAIK, he is no longer a director.

Call me a cynic but this looks to me like the SFA establishment piling all blame on to CW and aiding Rangers and their proposed buyers.

[PaulSmith]

http://www.twitlonger.com/show/gem7a9

This is just cruel.

[CropleyWasGod]

Call me a cynic but this looks to me like the SFA establishment piling all blame on to CW and aiding Rangers and their proposed buyers.

Yer a cynic :greengrin:

To be fair, RFC are named in that charge as well.

[Spike Mandela]

Yer a cynic :greengrin:

To be fair, RFC are named in that charge as well.

RFC will get slap on wrist, CW will get expelled from football you watch.:rolleyes:

[CropleyWasGod]

RFC will get slap on wrist, CW will get expelled from football you watch.:rolleyes:

For this charge, perhaps. But it is hardly the crime of the century, to be fair.

The important one, the alleged cheating, is in the background.

[speedy_gonzales]

Just seen this post on Facebook, can this be right??

Has anyone considered this? If all Celtic fans (or anyone that doesn't like Rangers) with a Paypal account were to send them 1p it would cost them 20p +3.5% (approx) in order to receive it.

Now they can't get around these fees by claiming they are a charity, as they are not, they also can't claim it's personal money, as again, it's not.

The money, as it is being used to fund a business, is also taxable and would need to be declared. #JustSaying

[CropleyWasGod]

Just seen this post on Facebook, can this be right??

Has anyone considered this? If all Celtic fans with a Paypal account were to send them 1p it would cost them 20p +3.5% (approx) in order to receive it.

Now they can't get around these fees by claiming they are a charity, as they are not, they also can't claim it's personal money, as again, it's not.

The money, as it is being used to fund a business, is also taxable and would need to be declared. #JustSaying

The fundamental flaw....all Celtic fans with a Paypal account

The last line is bullshecht an' all.

[The_Todd]

Just seen this post on Facebook, can this be right??

Has anyone considered this? If all Celtic fans (or anyone that doesn't like Rangers) with a Paypal account were to send them 1p it would cost them 20p +3.5% (approx) in order to receive it.

Now they can't get around these fees by claiming they are a charity, as they are not, they also can't claim it's personal money, as again, it's not.

The money, as it is being used to fund a business, is also taxable and would need to be declared. #JustSaying

It's too good to be true.

That's a monthly fee, not for one off payments.

[blindsummit]

http://www.scottishfa.co.uk/scottish_fa_news.cfm?page=721&newsCategoryID=1&newsID=9495

Oopsie.

In my cynical opinion, these charges have only been brought to bear so that the SFA can then exonerate the poor hard done by wee lambs. They will be pronounced innocent and blameless.

but as I say, I am a cynic.

[speedy_gonzales]

The fundamental flaw....all Celtic fans with a Paypal account

The last line is bullshecht an' all.


It's too good to be true.

That's a monthly fee, not for one off payments.

Ahhh,,,not overly familiar with PayPal fees so wasn't sure. Shows how much nonsense is getting fired around re RFC though eh?!?

[Green Man]

It's too good to be true.

That's a monthly fee, not for one off payments.

For a card payment it's a per-transaction fee, payable either by the sender or the recipient.

[greenlex]

I wish gbey would just hurry up and **** off and die. Its all rather tedious now to be honest.
Roll on Sunday and give us something proper to talk about.

[CentreLine]

http://www.scottishfa.co.uk/scottish_fa_news.cfm?page=721&newsCategoryID=1&newsID=9495

Oopsie.

Is it just a coincidence that the discipline case wil all be tied up before 31st March?

[The_Todd]

One question, if this Brian Kennedy has enough spare cash to throw at an insolvent Rangers and, in his own words, start them from scratch why can't he as a Hibs supporter invest his cash in our club? The amount of money it would to have us challenging would be spare change compared to rescuing that debt ridden mess of a club surely considering how rich he's reported as being?

Maybe there's a reason he'd rather rescue Rangers than sink his cash into Hibs?

[The_Todd]

One question, if this Brian Kennedy has enough spare cash to throw at an insolvent Rangers and, in his own words, start them from scratch why can't he as a Hibs supporter invest his cash in our club? The amount of money it would to have us challenging would be spare change compared to rescuing that debt ridden mess of a club surely considering how rich he's reported as being?

Maybe there's a reason he'd rather rescue Rangers than sink his cash into Hibs?

Answering my own question: because he's tried in the past it seems. Ok. Forget it.

[blackpoolhibs]

I dont think Kennedy is serious about buying the huns?

[magpie1892]

Call me a cynic but this looks to me like the SFA establishment piling all blame on to CW and aiding Rangers and their proposed buyers.

It really doesn't matter what 'the establishment' do or try to do in terms of finding a scapegoat. Rangers (1873) will be liquidated.

[jgl07]

One question, if this Brian Kennedy has enough spare cash to throw at an insolvent Rangers and, in his own words, start them from scratch why can't he as a Hibs supporter invest his cash in our club? The amount of money it would to have us challenging would be spare change compared to rescuing that debt ridden mess of a club surely considering how rich he's reported as being?

Maybe there's a reason he'd rather rescue Rangers than sink his cash into Hibs?

A serious takeover bid for Rangers would require at least £100 million. That would just about settle with HMRC and Ticketus and leave a small quantity of working capital left to keep things going until the playing staff can be 'restructured' to avoid £1 million a month losses.

Has Kennedy got access to that sort of money? I doubt it.

His plans when he tried to takeover Hibs were very hazy and not convincing and I suspect that Tom Farmer saw through this and knocked him back. His time with Stockport County suggested even worse.

His 'bid' is probably an attempt to get some publicity. He admits he doesn't want to take over Rangers. No-one goes into a multi-million pound takeover with that attitude.

A total time waster.

[hibs0666]

Bit of a rumour doing the rounds that UEFA are about to get involved over the huns cheating all these years.

[MrSmith]

Bit of a rumour doing the rounds that UEFA are about to get involved over the huns cheating all these years.

Source? Link?

please - I would love this to happen!

[hibs0666]

Source? Link?

please - I would love this to happen!

Truth or mischief? (http://www.celticquicknews.co.uk/?p=8311&utm_source=dlvr.it&utm_medium=twitter)

[Andy74]

One question, if this Brian Kennedy has enough spare cash to throw at an insolvent Rangers and, in his own words, start them from scratch why can't he as a Hibs supporter invest his cash in our club? The amount of money it would to have us challenging would be spare change compared to rescuing that debt ridden mess of a club surely considering how rich he's reported as being?

Maybe there's a reason he'd rather rescue Rangers than sink his cash into Hibs?

He's no Hibby!

Plus do you really think an investor could get Hibs challenging? Rangers have fans still coming to watch and when sorted out still have a huge turnover to play with.

Someone would need to subsidise us to the tune of about £30 million every year forever to challenge.

[MrSmith]

Truth or mischief? (http://www.celticquicknews.co.uk/?p=8311&utm_source=dlvr.it&utm_medium=twitter)

Hard to tell, but thanks for the link.

[Saorsa]

Bit of a rumour doing the rounds that UEFA are about to get involved over the huns cheating all these years.http://i1175.photobucket.com/albums/r623/JDPH1875/smilies/apraysmileyg.gif

Then we might see some real action instead of the SFA/SPL trying tae sweep in under the carpet.

[green glory]

This is a tweet from Archie Macpherson to Stewart Regan. Quite funny I thought. A veiled threat also?

@archiemacpher: @StewartRegan Mr regan, I fear for your job after the summer, u have choosen to lie in a dirty bed. u don't mess with the famous rangers!!!

[bighairyfaeleith]

This is a tweet from Archie Macpherson to Stewart Regan. Quite funny I thought. A veiled threat also?

@archiemacpher: @StewartRegan Mr regan, I fear for your job after the summer, u have choosen to lie in a dirty bed. u don't mess with the famous rangers!!!

not very veiled

[Twa Cairpets]

This is a tweet from Archie Macpherson to Stewart Regan. Quite funny I thought. A veiled threat also?

@archiemacpher: @StewartRegan Mr regan, I fear for your job after the summer, u have choosen to lie in a dirty bed. u don't mess with the famous rangers!!!

I would be somewhat skeptical that the tweet is from the actual Archie Macpherson...

[lapsedhibee]

This is a tweet from Archie Macpherson to Stewart Regan. Quite funny I thought. A veiled threat also?

@archiemacpher: @StewartRegan Mr regan, I fear for your job after the summer, u have choosen to lie in a dirty bed. u don't mess with the famous rangers!!!

Sure it is.

[HUTCHYHIBBY]

I would be somewhat skeptical that the tweet is from the actual Archie Macpherson...

You may just be on to something there TC! The amount of nonsense surrounding these muppets is unreal!

[s.a.m]

I would say that he's about 80 years too old for text-speak.......

[JeMeSouviens]

I would be somewhat skeptical that the tweet is from the actual Archie Macpherson...

If it was, it would surely be a Shredded Tweet. :wink: There's a fake twitter account for Craig Brown as well which is occasionally funny.

[CropleyWasGod]

I would be somewhat skeptical that the tweet is from the actual Archie Macpherson...

I'm not,.... and please don't sully the image I have of Archie sneaking into Regan's bedroom one night, baseball bat in hand, and going...

WWWWWWOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFF

[Twa Cairpets]

You may just be on to something there TC! The amount of nonsense surrounding these muppets is unreal!

Aye - the tweet on this account that kinda give it away is "I love boro cause i always get me hole". Now, I accept I am occasionally somewhat cynical in such matters, but if that's the real Archie I'll eat my body weight in shredded wheat. And thats a lot of shredded wheat.

[Kato]

If it was, it would surely be a Shredded Tweet. :wink:


Tweetabix, surely.

[Jack]

Donate 1p to the Rangers Fighting Fund via Paypal, It costs them 20p to process the transaction. Result Rangers are -19p..

:greengrin

[StevieC]

I'm not,.... and please don't sully the image I have of Archie sneaking into Regan's bedroom one night, baseball bat in hand, and going...

WWWWWWOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFF

I had him riding in on a horse and skelping him with a flail in true Braveheart fashion.

[JeMeSouviens]

New RTC blog up today.

http://rangerstaxcase.com/2012/03/16/illegal-use-of-ebts-other-issues/

Interesting snippet in the comments:

"On the FTT- the issue of whether the “contracts” were in fact letters of intent will be a red-herring.
If you are sloppy and incompetent administrator of a scam, you start to become casual over time. You will eventually fall into habits that will add up to the Rosetta Stone for your activities.

I would hope for Rangers’ sake that they did not have correspondence that said things like: “Player van X has now played Y first team games this season- so he is entitled to his promised bonus of £Z”. And I really hope for their sake that no documents exist that say that the EBT loans do not need to be repaid.

If such documents existed, it would become clear that the whole scheme was just a sham."

[green glory]

I'm not,.... and please don't sully the image I have of Archie sneaking into Regan's bedroom one night, baseball bat in hand, and going...

WWWWWWOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFF

Lol very good. Might not be Archie. Funny nonetheless.

[CropleyWasGod]

I had him riding in on a horse and skelping him with a flail in true Braveheart fashion.

You watch way too much YouPorn :wink:

[green glory]

You watch way too much YouPorn :wink:

With that sexy comb-over flapping in the breeze.

[Seveno]

I'm not,.... and please don't sully the image I have of Archie sneaking into Regan's bedroom one night, baseball bat in hand, and going...

WWWWWWOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFF

:top marks

[Hibernia&Alba]

Right, where are all the bidders on deadline day? They must be falling over each other in the rush to rescue the glorious Rangers :cb


:tumble:

[green glory]

Right, where are all the bidders on deadline day? They must be falling over each other in the rush to rescue the glorious Rangers :cb

:tumble:

Loads of bidders with 100m to burn I'm sure.

[PatHead]

Looking to put a last minute consorteum together...............

Cash bid £1.89

Business Plan Run them into the ground by the end of the season and dinnae pay taxman

Name The Blue Sh@tes

Anyone interested?

[CropleyWasGod]

Looking to put a last minute consorteum together...............

Cash bid £1.89

Business Plan Run them into the ground by the end of the season and dinnae pay taxman

Name The Blue Sh@tes

Anyone interested?

Chuck in Craig's burd, and knock off the VAT, and we might be able to talk.

[Hibernia&Alba]

Looking to put a last minute consorteum together...............

Cash bid £1.89

Business Plan Run them into the ground by the end of the season and dinnae pay taxman

Name The Blue Sh@tes

Anyone interested?

I'm very interested, but Craig Whyte has already done this and got the club for wan poon. We'd be paying almost double. Our bid should undercut his - 89p, take it or leave it.

[silverhibee]

Right, where are all the bidders on deadline day? They must be falling over each other in the rush to rescue the glorious Rangers :cb


:tumble:



White horse spotted in Govan with potential bidders in tow.

http://www.google.co.uk/imgres?q=man+on+white+horse&start=194&hl=en&sa=X&biw=1366&bih=667&tbm=isch&prmd=imvns&tbnid=po_ql6jWeX2csM:&imgrefurl=http://www.historicalstockphotos.com/details/photo/80_horse_pulling_a_coach.html&docid=ek8OMFFDVzlzBM&imgurl=http://www.historicalstockphotos.com/images/xsmall/80_horse_pulling_a_coach.jpg&w=450&h=322&ei=f0ZjT-nWDuTC0QXA1OCICA&zoom=1&iact=hc&vpx=914&vpy=324&dur=7333&hovh=190&hovw=265&tx=180&ty=117&sig=111304256375870868267&page=9&tbnh=139&tbnw=185&ndsp=24&ved=1t:429,r:10,s:194

[JeMeSouviens]

Tweets from BBC's Chris McLaughlin:

"Craig Whyte tells me again that he is the secured creditor at #Rangers. He says suggestions he's not are 'nonsense.'"

"CW: The facts are the facts. I am the owner of the club. It is not up for debate. I am the major shareholder."


Gaun yersel Craigy Boy. :aok:

[CropleyWasGod]

Tweets from BBC's Chris McLaughlin:

"Craig Whyte tells me again that he is the secured creditor at #Rangers. He says suggestions he's not are 'nonsense.'"

"CW: The facts are the facts. I am the owner of the club. It is not up for debate. I am the major shareholder."


Gaun yersel Craigy Boy. :aok:

I agree with him on the second point.

However, that's two Court cases for a starter. :cb

[Hibernia&Alba]

Remind me again, what's the state of play if no bid is submitted today?

[CropleyWasGod]

Remind me again, what's the state of play if no bid is submitted today?

Back to Plan A, which the admins always told us was Plan A, until the public posturing started.

A CVA. :cb

[hibs0666]

Back to Plan A, which the admins always told us was Plan A, until the public posturing started.

A CVA. :cb

If no-one s interested in taking the business on as a going concern, won't it be straight to liquidation?

[CropleyWasGod]

If no-one s interested in taking the business on as a going concern, won't it be straight to liquidation?

Think they have to be seen to at least try and go for a CVA.

Just suspend rational thought for a moment....

If they managed to convince all the creditors to accept 10p in the £, then buying the business as a going concern would become much more attractive.

They have to go through the motions, I reckon.

[hibs0666]

Think they have to be seen to at least try and go for a CVA.

Just suspend rational thought for a moment....

If they managed to convince all the creditors to accept 10p in the £, then buying the business as a going concern would become much more attractive.

They have to go through the motions, I reckon.

Agreed - just thought that the point of the current exercise was to flush out serious bids, complete with myriad if-then conditional clauses. :wink:

[Hibernia&Alba]

Back to Plan A, which the admins always told us was Plan A, until the public posturing started.

A CVA. :cb

Oh aye, thanks. It seems a long time ago since that old chestnut was discussed. Message to der Hun from Hector - yer no ha'en a CVA. Your move, ye fuds :greengrin

[CropleyWasGod]

Agreed - just thought that the point of the current exercise was to flush out serious bids, complete with myriad if-then conditional clauses. :wink:

Here's what my instinct is telling me:-

You're right, this is part of the flushing-out process.

Every bid will have conditions, not least of which will be the BTC being positive, and perhaps getting out of the Ticketus deal. For that reason, the bids will remain on the table, but obviously have to be parked meantime.

The admins will then continue down the CVA route.

They will continue down the road of the Court cases.

By then, we will be much closer to the BTC result.

If BTC goes bad for them, it'll be goodnight.

If it goes well, they're still in there with a snowball's chance.

[WindyMiller]

Here's what my instinct is telling me:-

You're right, this is part of the flushing-out process.

Every bid will have conditions, not least of which will be the BTC being positive, and perhaps getting out of the Ticketus deal. For that reason, the bids will remain on the table, but obviously have to be parked meantime.

The admins will then continue down the CVA route.

They will continue down the road of the Court cases.

By then, we will be much closer to the BTC result.

If BTC goes bad for them, it'll be goodnight.

If it goes well, they're still in there with a snowball's chance.

Whilst bleeding the Huns dry hopefully.

[green glory]

AlasdairLamont tweets:

@BBCAlLamont: Rangers administrators v Ticketus at Court of Session continued until Monday by Lord Hodge

@BBCAlLamont: David Sellar QC, for the administrators, told Lord Hodge there was still seen to be "exceptional urgency" in the matter because it was...

@BBCAlLamont: ...anticipated that "indicative bids" due in today would give their terms on the basis of the Ticketus contracts remaining or not.

[hibs0666]

I hope this bid sees off the competition...

Ashley Madison (http://www.mccgp.co.uk/marketing-news/public-relations/dating-site-ashley-madison-makes-bid-for-rangers/1392/)

[Twa Cairpets]

Apparently 3 bids for Forces of Darkness FC

Club 9 - US sports specialists who it seems got told where tyo go by Sheff Wed and Tranmere, Kennedy and the knights of the masonic table.

It's not inspiring rapturous joy over on the bile fest that is the Rangers Media Forum.

[Hibernia&Alba]

Apparently 3 bids for Forces of Darkness FC

Club 9 - US sports specialists who it seems got told where tyo go by Sheff Wed and Tranmere, Kennedy and the knights of the masonic table.

It's not inspiring rapturous joy over on the bile fest that is the Rangers Media Forum.


Are any of the bids unconditional?

[Twa Cairpets]

Are any of the bids unconditional?

No idea Im afraid - its just seems that there is confirmation of these bids.

But I wouldnt think so.

[Seveno]

Are any of the bids unconditional?

Just the one, from Mr S Claus who is fronting up a consortium of investors from Lapland.

[green glory]

Are any of the bids unconditional?

Aye all of them.

http://www.rangers.co.uk/news/football-news/article/2662724

[CropleyWasGod]

Aye all of them.

http://www.rangers.co.uk/news/football-news/article/2662724

None of them, Shirley.

At this stage we have indicative and conditional bids only.

[Hibernia&Alba]

None of them, Shirley.

At this stage we have indicative and conditional bids only.


Aye.

"prospective purchasers are looking for clarity on certain issues at the earliest possible opportunity prior to submitting more detailed formal bids".



Don't go wetting yourselves yet, Huns. Any timewaster could step forward at this stage.

[green glory]

None of them, Shirley.

At this stage we have indicative and conditional bids only.

Aye I meant none of them doh! Lol

[Hibrandenburg]

Just a quick question that's been niggling me. Now that the top players have agreed to take a massive paycut, does it mean that if Rankers do go into liquidation or need to sack the players, then would the payoff they're due also be greatly reduced.

P.S. keep up the good work, this is compulsive reading.

[greenginger]

Duff and Duffer seem a bit surprised and disappointed that the bidders want " a bit more clarity and certainty on some issues "


Has £ 24 million + of future season tickets gone already ?

Will the HMRC do a deal on the £ 15 million VAT and Tax debt ?

This EBT thingy they won't want all £ 49 million surely ?


A bit unreasonable of them to be nit-picking over mere details like those. :confused:

[bighairyfaeleith]

basically nae one actually wants to win this, they all want to look like they want to, but actually hoping someone else wins and they can say we tried.

There ****ed, even if they get through this they have more sanctions to come from uefa when porto complain, the floodgates are opening and nobody wants to be left holding this hunball!!

[CropleyWasGod]

Just a quick question that's been niggling me. Now that the top players have agreed to take a massive paycut, does it mean that if Rankers do go into liquidation or need to sack the players, then would the payoff they're due also be greatly reduced.

P.S. keep up the good work, this is compulsive reading.

It depends on the wording of the revised contracts, I suppose. The admins did say that not all the revisions were the same. eg. Whittaker might be on £5k pw until the end of the season, then reverting to £20k therafter. Davis might be on £5k pw, with the option to walk away for nothing.

I doubt any would be on reduced wages for the rest of their contract, though.

[Hibrandenburg]

Sorry,maybe I didn't make myself clear. What happens if their contract is now terminated before the end of the season, would the payout then be smaller due to the lower expected earnings?

[CropleyWasGod]

Sorry,maybe I didn't make myself clear. What happens if their contract is now terminated before the end of the season, would the payout then be smaller due to the lower expected earnings?

It would only be smaller by the cut they have taken for the next few months. If, for example, they were then due to revert to £20k pa for the remaining x years on their contract, that amount would remain payable.

There is no salary-related redundancy pay for the players, if that's what you mean. Being on fixed contracts, they are entitled to whatever is still due under that contract.

In reality, of course, they would be added to the list of creditors and ultimately be paid x pence in the £

[Hibrandenburg]

Cheers for that. Would still save them a nice wee wad if they dumped them now though. Or is that just wishful thinking :-)

[CropleyWasGod]

Cheers for that. Would still save them a nice wee wad if they dumped them now though. Or is that just wishful thinking :-)

Wouldn't really. The dumped player would then be able to sue for the remaining pay due. Which would add to the amount of creditors, and also reduce the value of the playing squad. Short term savings, but false economy in the long run.

Or have I misunderstood your question? :greengrin

[Jack]

AlasdairLamont tweets:

@BBCAlLamont: Rangers administrators v Ticketus at Court of Session continued until Monday by Lord Hodge

@BBCAlLamont: David Sellar QC, for the administrators, told Lord Hodge there was still seen to be "exceptional urgency" in the matter because it was...

@BBCAlLamont: ...anticipated that "indicative bids" due in today would give their terms on the basis of the Ticketus contracts remaining or not.

I have Monday off. Can you tell me where this epic is taking place? I assume the paying public can gloat on?

[green glory]

I have Monday off. Can you tell me where this epic is taking place? I assume the paying public can gloat on?

The court of session in Edinburgh. Grab some popcorn.

[s.a.m]

Do the administrators have to do the 'due diligence' thing with any new owner, or can they just offload the company, and turn their back on it?

[Benny Brazil]

The court of session in Edinburgh. Grab some popcorn.

Can you cheer the good guys? :greengrin

[CropleyWasGod]

Do the administrators have to do the 'due diligence' thing with any new owner, or can they just offload the company, and turn their back on it?

.. you mean like SDM did? :greengrin

[Hibrandenburg]

Wouldn't really. The dumped player would then be able to sue for the remaining pay due. Which would add to the amount of creditors, and also reduce the value of the playing squad. Short term savings, but false economy in the long run.

Or have I misunderstood your question? :greengrin

Yeah sort of, but crack on as I can see you've made a full time job of this one :-)

[green glory]

Can you cheer the good guys? :greengrin

Hibs scarves and rattles.

[jgl07]

.. you mean like SDM did? :greengrin

Or SDM was forced to do by Lloyds Bank Group?

[WindyMiller]

Roddy was obviously not invited to SDM's press conference.

It would be interesting to know who was.

[Hibby Kay-Yay]

Or SDM was forced to do by Lloyds Bank Group?

And who owns Lloyds Bank Group?

At least the government got some of their dosh!

[Viva_Palmeiras]

basically nae one actually wants to win this, they all want to look like they want to, but actually hoping someone else wins and they can say we tried.

There ****ed, even if they get through this they have more sanctions to come from uefa when porto complain, the floodgates are opening and nobody wants to be left holding this hunball!!

So seems like they must be liquidated to avoid these floodgate of claims ? Slate clean and all that? Or are you saying Eufa could impose sanctions on the newco/Phoenix club.
I just see one winner in this - the lawyers.
Shame couldnt happen to a nicer bunch.:greengrin

[greenginger]

Roddy was obviously not invited to SDM's press conference.

It would be interesting to know who was.


Rangers a*se - lickers only thats for sure. :agree:

[CropleyWasGod]

Yeah sort of, but crack on as I can see you've made a full time job of this one :-)

Yeah.. so much so that my business has suffered. I've got the bank nipping my heid, and a guy chapping at the door telling me he'll give me a pound for the lot.

Seems like a decent guy... I'll maybe just say yes for a quick sale.

(last bit borrowed from the Murray Manual for Company Disposals)

[CropleyWasGod]

So seems like they must be liquidated to avoid these floodgate of claims ? Slate clean and all that? Or are you saying Eufa could impose sanctions on the newco/Phoenix club.
I just see one winner in this - the lawyers.
Shame couldnt happen to a nicer bunch.:greengrin

Derry City tried on the "new entity" defence with UEFA ... they got punted.

[Billy Whizz]

Roddy was obviously not invited to SDM's press conference.

It would be interesting to know who was.

Roddy who?

[Jack]

I have Monday off. Can you tell me where this epic is taking place? I assume the paying public can gloat on?


The court of session in Edinburgh. Grab some popcorn.

Thanks.

I've tried to search the court of session website for some more information but am struggling to come up with anything.

Are there any court of session expert netters out there who could provide a link please?

Mikey, or any other admin still following this thread. ;-)

Can I borrow the Hibs.net press pass please :-D

[WindyMiller]

Roddy who?

Sorry! Forgot the link!

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/sport/football/teams/rangers/9146997/Rangers-in-administration-Its-too-late-to-send-in-the-clowns....html

[Seveno]

Sorry! Forgot the link!

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/sport/football/teams/rangers/9146997/Rangers-in-administration-Its-too-late-to-send-in-the-clowns....html

And, of course, it would have been just as easy for the Weegie Press to have carried out this apparently simple piece of investigative journalism.

[SteveHFC]

http://forum.rangersmedia.co.uk/index.php?showtopic=214262

[WindyMiller]

http://forum.rangersmedia.co.uk/index.php?showtopic=214262


Was mentioned this p.m. by Chick.
Apparently the Rangers secretary, who's also one of Whyte's lawyer buddies, made inquiries about buying St. M.

Edit : http://www.blackandwhitearmy.com/forums/index.php/topic/33575-craig-whytes-lawers-have-a-bid-for-saints-rejected//


http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/scotland/17417004

[ancient hibee]

Isn't the biggest obstacle to the three interests of purchase the fact that Mr.Whyte does not appear anxious to sell.While this is obviously a bargaining position unless I'm totally wrong(and I seem to be more and more often these days)Rangers can not be sold without his consent-unless it can be proved he doesn't own it-which could drag on a bit.

[Hibs7]

rangers and their inbred fans

[CropleyWasGod]

Isn't the biggest obstacle to the three interests of purchase the fact that Mr.Whyte does not appear anxious to sell.While this is obviously a bargaining position unless I'm totally wrong(and I seem to be more and more often these days)Rangers can not be sold without his consent-unless it can be proved he doesn't own it-which could drag on a bit.

83% shareholder, AFAIK. :agree:

[Part/Time Supporter]

The administrator could try selling out the assets of Rangers from underneath Whyte, but that would mean (eventually) closing Rangers FC plc and starting a new company with the assets.

[CropleyWasGod]

The administrator could try selling out the assets of Rangers from underneath Whyte, but that would mean (eventually) closing Rangers FC plc and starting a new company with the assets.

I think, in that scenario, the SFA licence remains with the old company.

[jgl07]

83% shareholder, AFAIK. :agree:

So Craig Whyte would appear to own 83% of the shares in Rangers. He is still arguing that he is a secured creditor and will be entitled to the real estate in the event of liquidation. It would be daft for him to sell the shares at least until his claims to secured creditor status can be established one way or another.

That all assumes that Whyte does indeed own those shares given the misrepresentation in the way that they were acquired. But if Whyte does not own the shares then who does? David Murray? Ticketus?

It all seems very dubious but Whyte does appear to own the shares. I can't see any sale happening for some time.

In the meantime there will be multiple legal actions. The lawyers will have picked the carcase of Rangers clean long before the issues have been resolved.

[PaulSmith]

Remember Chic Young last week saying that Campbell Ogilvie only recieved benefits that amounted to a 'good night out'

" Ogilvie, also a former director at Hearts, admitted he had received three amounts of £5000 from the scheme between 2001 and 2003, in addition to a one-off sum from the scheme of £80,000 upon his departure from the club in 2005. "

[andrew70]

Remember Chic Young last week saying that Campbell Ogilvie only recieved benefits that amounted to a 'good night out'

" Ogilvie, also a former director at Hearts, admitted he had received three amounts of £5000 from the scheme between 2001 and 2003, in addition to a one-off sum from the scheme of £80,000 upon his departure from the club in 2005. "

To be fair I'd have an absolutely amazing night out on that money as well

[WindyMiller]

Tom English must have had the succulent lamb.


http://www.scotsman.com/scotland-on-sunday/sport/rangers-administration-campbell-ogilvie-full-of-regrets-and-wonders-if-he-could-have-done-more-1-2181094 (http://www.scotsman.com/scotland-on-sunday/sport/rangers-administration-campbell-ogilvie-full-of-regrets-and-wonders-if-he-could-have-done-more-1-2181094?commentssort=1&commentspage=2#commentsSection)

[greenginger]

Remember Chic Young last week saying that Campbell Ogilvie only recieved benefits that amounted to a 'good night out'

" Ogilvie, also a former director at Hearts, admitted he had received three amounts of £5000 from the scheme between 2001 and 2003, in addition to a one-off sum from the scheme of £80,000 upon his departure from the club in 2005. "



Tax and N I on that would amount to £ 35,000 + . Nice for Chic to dismiss that as trivial, so he won't miss it if its docked from his BBC salary.

[down-the-slope]

Admins...just for our amusement :greengrin can we get a clock 'count down' to end of March and no-accounts...Gers punted from Europe next season :aok:


PS. Where were all these willing suitors when SDM was hawking the mess to anyone who would listen...now with the mess on a gigantic scale we are being asked to beleive people are queueing up to buy:faf:......only reason for a queue would be the hope of a 'fire' sale (liquidation)

[Caversham Green]

Tom English must have had the succulent lamb.


http://www.scotsman.com/scotland-on-sunday/sport/rangers-administration-campbell-ogilvie-full-of-regrets-and-wonders-if-he-could-have-done-more-1-2181094






Some interesting points to take from that:

Both Adam and Murray have suggested that Ogilivie wouldn't have known about the EBTs, but here's Campbell himself saying


I remember at the time they came in, the Murray Group took a lot of legal and accountancy and tax advice. As far as I was concerned they were legally set up with the backing of the accountants of the lawyers and they were operated legally. I can’t remember who put me into the scheme but I didn’t question it because it was set up perfectly legally.

Does CO know where the bodies are buried?


"The SPL are looking into this,” he says of the allegations levelled by Adam. “I have not been approached by the SPL,....



Why the hell not? He should have been the first person they spoke to, even if it was just to get a "No comment" out of him. More bodies?


as part of my settlement, I got a figure of £80,000.

But wasn't it a loan? Why would an employer facilitate a loan to a departing employee "as part of his settlement"? What were the terms of repayment? What was the loan for? Why is it some obscure accountant in Reading asking these questions instead of journalists or the SPL?

The smell gets worse and worse. 'Mon the HMRC.

[WindyMiller]

Some interesting points to take from that:

Both Adam and Murray have suggested that Ogilivie wouldn't have known about the EBTs, but here's Campbell himself saying



Does CO know where the bodies are buried?



Why the hell not? He should have been the first person they spoke to, even if it was just to get a "No comment" out of him. More bodies?



But wasn't it a loan? Why would an employer facilitate a loan to a departing employee "as part of his settlement"? What were the terms of repayment? What was the loan for? Why is it some obscure accountant in Reading asking these questions instead of journalists or the SPL?

The smell gets worse and worse. 'Mon the HMRC.


It seems to me that our only hope of getting these answers is if the British media get involved and/or UEFA.

Obviously English,Taylor et al are happy to skirt around the issues.

[Viva_Palmeiras]

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-glasgow-west-17314210

Interesting coincidence. I did know of this tie up before and googled it and well looks like this relationship has run it's course...

[greenginger]

Why has nobody asked Ogilvie about the EBT scheme run at Tynecastle.?

Come to think of it there must be second contracts and " Letters of Intent " floating around the PBS.

Anyone remember the names of the World Cup stars or maybe a phone number. :wink:

[CropleyWasGod]

Why has nobody asked Ogilvie about the EBT scheme run at Tynecastle.?

Come to think of it there must be second contracts and " Letters of Intent " floating around the PBS.

Anyone remember the names of the World Cup stars or maybe a phone number. :wink:

Was there one?

I thought it was assumption, based on the fact that HMRC were investigating HMFC.

[AllyT]

Was there one?

I thought it was assumption, based on the fact that HMRC were investigating HMFC.


I know someone who was employed by Hearts and his salary was £500 per month but he had larger sum of money deposited in a bank account outside the UK. It wasn't offshore though so not sure what the scam was there....I do suspect to avoid UK tax though.

[greenginger]

There was an investigative journalism program on TV over a year ago, about EBT's , image rights and other scams mostly about the English Premier league.

It did state the names of the Clubs being investigated for EBT's included Hartlepool and in Scotland Rangers and Hearts.

I am sure if the HMRC get a "result " with the Rangers case they will be making a call at the PBS.

In the meantime a simple question to Ogilvie could clear up a lot of speculation , or dig him an even deeper hole.

[CropleyWasGod]

There was an investigative journalism program on TV over a year ago, about EBT's , image rights and other scams mostly about the English Premier league.

It did state the names of the Clubs being investigated for EBT's included Hartlepool and in Scotland Rangers and Hearts.

I am sure if the HMRC get a "result " with the Rangers case they will be making a call at the PBS.

In the meantime a simple question to Ogilvie could clear up a lot of speculation , or dig him an even deeper hole.

Ah okay, thanks. I had also "heard" the story that the previous poster mentioned.

EBT's, of themselves, don't suggest the type of "double contract" situation that is alleged at RFC. However, I agree that, if HMRC win the BTC at RFC, HMFC will be next to GTF.

[greenginger]

Ah okay, thanks. I had also "heard" the story that the previous poster mentioned.

EBT's, of themselves, don't suggest the type of "double contract" situation that is alleged at RFC. However, I agree that, if HMRC win the BTC at RFC, HMFC will be next to GTF.


If the players were getting wages supplements over and above what is on their playing contract registered with the SPL then I'm certain they would want something in writing in way of confirmation.

Vlad does'nt think he should have to pay the money due on registered contracts if it does'nt suit him. :greengrin

[CropleyWasGod]

If the players were getting wages supplements over and above what is on their playing contract registered with the SPL then I'm certain they would want something in writing in way of confirmation.

Vlad does'nt think he should have to pay the money due on registered contracts if it does'nt suit him. :greengrin

That's the issue, though. Contributions to EBT's were legitimate, and it would have been appropriate to write those into the players' contracts. If they were, then there is no issue in terms of "double contracts". It is then purely an HMRC matter. If they weren't, which is what you're suggesting, then sure, it's the same situation as the Huns.

[KazHibby]

Does anybody know if Rangers Administrators suceeded in their action this morning in Court of Session to have an Administration Order made over the Company (i.e. RFC).

Looks like they were worried about the possibility of being removed as agents by the Company (i.e. RFC - C Whyte).

This could also change the timetable for reporting.

[green glory]

Does anybody know if Rangers Administrators suceeded in their action this morning in Court of Session to have an Administration Order made over the Company (i.e. RFC).

Looks like they were worried about the possibility of being removed as agents by the Company (i.e. RFC - C Whyte).

This could also change the timetable for reporting.

Looks like they're still the admins.

@BBCAlLamont: Rangers status as a company in administration confirmed in court.Lord Hodge back-dated ruling to date original ruling on admin made

[CropleyWasGod]

I suspect this week could be a slow one in terms of public information. There will be plenty going on behind the scenes, I'm sure, with the various bidders.

However, what would really spice things up is the BTC result being announced..... :devil:

[PatHead]

Radio 5 Live have a special programme on tonight at 7.00pm. Rangers What Next?

Be interesting to hear a London spin on things. Just hope they don't just wheel out Chic, Jim Traynor etc and just go over the old ground. Surely Roddy Forsyth will be allowed to get his bit in.

[Spike Mandela]

I suspect this week could be a slow one in terms of public information. There will be plenty going on behind the scenes, I'm sure, with the various bidders.

However, what would really spice things up is the BTC result being announced..... :devil:

Who is deciding this BTC? I am surprised this has not been publicised in a bid to put public pressure on them for a sympathetic hearing. Privately I would presume this pressure is being applied by the high and mighty.

[Cropley10]

Radio 5 Live have a special programme on tonight at 7.00pm. Rangers What Next?

Be interesting to hear a London spin on things. Just hope they don't just wheel out Chic, Jim Traynor etc and just go over the old ground. Surely Roddy Forsyth will be allowed to get his bit in.

Mark HATEley and Andy LVF Goram are on the panel. So it will be all about how we need Rangers, they are the peepul and the Bog Hoose must stay open.

[greenginger]

Anyone know when the Duff and Duffer Vs Ticketus result will be in ?

I 'm not too concerned how it goes. Ticketus win and the Huns are screwed for half their season ticket income for 4 years.

The Legal Establishment go with Scotland's Establishment club and find in favour of Rangers and the result will be appealed, tying this case and the administration for months if not years.

[ballengeich]

I suspect this week could be a slow one in terms of public information. There will be plenty going on behind the scenes, I'm sure, with the various bidders.

However, what would really spice things up is the BTC result being announced..... :devil:

Paul Murray was interviewed on Radio Scotland on Friday evening and said that for the Blue Knights, the outcome of the BTC is an irrelevance. Their bid is a fixed amount dependent on a CVA being in place. As far as they're concerned all the BTC result will do is change the pence in the pound that creditors will receive. Essentially they're relying on HMRC being willing to write off many millions. They see the advantage of their bid as being the link with Ticketus which will reduce the amount of legal wrangling.

I hope HMRC stand firm for the full amount due, as I suspect that none of the bidders has any intention of paying the tax arrears.

[jgl07]

Paul Murray was interviewed on Radio Scotland on Friday evening and said that for the Blue Knights, the outcome of the BTC is an irrelevance. Their bid is a fixed amount dependent on a CVA being in place. As far as they're concerned all the BTC result will do is change the pence in the pound that creditors will receive. Essentially they're relying on HMRC being willing to write off many millions. They see the advantage of their bid as being the link with Ticketus which will reduce the amount of legal wrangling.

I hope HMRC stand firm for the full amount due, as I suspect that none of the bidders has any intention of paying the tax arrears.

As I suspected, the bid is a time waster. There is not a hope of HMRC agreeing to a CVA as it is against their expressed policy and actions in previous cases.

The Administrators will presumably try and work out a CVA, although how this will operate without any resolution of the tax cases I do not know?

In the meantime the legal actions with Craig Whyte, Ticketus, HMRC and sundry creditors will grind on.

What happens if this is still in play by the end of the season? Will the SPL and SFA permit Rangers to remain in place despite knowing that they are likely to be liquidated at any time?

Maybe the SFA and SPL should put a deadline on resolving this case and expel Rangers if this is not met? Otherwise, how can the plans for next season be worked out?

[StevieC]

What happens if this is still in play by the end of the season? Will the SPL and SFA permit Rangers to remain in place despite knowing that they are likely to be liquidated at any time?

Maybe the SFA and SPL should put a deadline on resolving this case and expel Rangers if this is not met? Otherwise, how can the plans for next season be worked out?

Good question.
Is there a time limit as to how long a club/business can stay in administration?

It may be that Rangers might stay in administration until after the new season/fixtures are announced and thus apply the pressure of keeping a NewCo Rangers in the SPL?

[CropleyWasGod]

Who is deciding this BTC? I am surprised this has not been publicised in a bid to put public pressure on them for a sympathetic hearing. Privately I would presume this pressure is being applied by the high and mighty.

It's known as a First Tier Tax Tribunal. http://www.justice.gov.uk/tribunals/tax

You won't get too much in the way of information about it in the public domain. That is to protect the confidentiality of the taxpayer's affairs.

If there is any sort of pressure being applied, that of course would be wrong; it would be like the Government trying to influence the Judiciary.

[Liberal Hibby]

Good question.
Is there a time limit as to how long a club/business can stay in administration?

It may be that Rangers might stay in administration until after the new season/fixtures are announced and thus apply the pressure of keeping a NewCo Rangers in the SPL?

Then they would have another 10 point deduction - and I'm sure there would be questions about them continuing to trade while insolvent. I'm sure Cropley will be along shortly to quote chapter and verse.

[CropleyWasGod]

Good question.
Is there a time limit as to how long a club/business can stay in administration?

It may be that Rangers might stay in administration until after the new season/fixtures are announced and thus apply the pressure of keeping a NewCo Rangers in the SPL?

There are time limits for the administrators to report to the Courts. Look 'em up yersel..I'm busy :greengrin. However, IIRC, the Court can extend these, depending on the circumstances, and what the admins tell them.

I am sure I read, though, that if Rangers start the new season still in administration, there is a further 10 point penalty.

[CropleyWasGod]

Then they would have another 10 point deduction - and I'm sure there would be questions about them continuing to trade while insolvent. I'm sure Cropley will be along shortly to quote chapter and verse.

That will depend on their audit situation. They're in the same boat as Hearts here. No audit report yet, with the likelihood that it will ultimately refer to their ability to continue as a going concern. If that is the case, it will breach the terms of their SFA Licence.

The licencing regime has only been in place a few months, so I can't see the SFA exercising the ultimate sanction yet... but, technically, both clubs could lose their licence.

[ballengeich]

http://news.stv.tv/scotland/west-central/301043-ex-dundee-director-di-stefano-tells-qatar-ruler-buying-rangers-is-best-deal-in-football/

Fit and proper people ken whit's goin oan.

[CropleyWasGod]

http://news.stv.tv/scotland/west-central/301043-ex-dundee-director-di-stefano-tells-qatar-ruler-buying-rangers-is-best-deal-in-football/

Fit and proper people ken whit's goin oan.

"It would require little to no substantive investment other than repayment of debts and a new owner would have a superb club that is guaranteed European Football in the coming years as well as a huge worldwide support."

I suppose it depends on your definition of the word "substantive".

£100m? Ach... get two. :rolleyes:

[StevieC]

I am sure I read, though, that if Rangers start the new season still in administration, there is a further 10 point penalty.

Ten points would be minimum I reckon. Dundee received 25 points, although that was for entering administration for the second time rather than the second season.

[CropleyWasGod]

Ten points would be minimum I reckon. Dundee received 25 points, although that was for entering administration for the second time rather than the second season.

I think, because it's the same administration, the penalty is the same.

[Golden Bear]

http://news.stv.tv/scotland/west-central/301043-ex-dundee-director-di-stefano-tells-qatar-ruler-buying-rangers-is-best-deal-in-football/

Fit and proper people ken whit's goin oan.

The Emir of Qatar --------- is that not the same punter whom Fatty Foulkes was encouraging Alex Salmond to approach with a view to buying out Mad Vlad.?

[jgl07]

Ten points would be minimum I reckon. Dundee received 25 points, although that was for entering administration for the second time rather than the second season.

That is SFL rules. They are much tighter than SPL rules.

Livingston got busted to Division Three for a second spell in Administration.

[WindyMiller]

"It would require little to no substantive investment other than repayment of debts and a new owner would have a superb club that is guaranteed European Football in the coming years as well as a huge worldwide support."

I suppose it depends on your definition of the word "substantive".

£100m? Ach... get two. :rolleyes:


Everton could be bought for less.

[essexhibee]

43000 union jack flags to be sold prior to the OF game to try and raise funds. What a joke.

[ancient hibee]

I noticed in the Englsh/Ogilvie interviewthat Ogilvie explained that he only borrowed from the EBT.So did English ask him how much he had paid back?Aye right.

[blindsummit]

I noticed in the Englsh/Ogilvie interviewthat Ogilvie explained that he only borrowed from the EBT.So did English ask him how much he had paid back?Aye right.

Of course he didn't, as he knows what the true answer would be :lips seal

[CropleyWasGod]

I noticed in the Englsh/Ogilvie interviewthat Ogilvie explained that he only borrowed from the EBT.So did English ask him how much he had paid back?Aye right.

That was the whole basis of EBT's though. One borrows from the Trust, with no commitment to repayment.

[greenginger]

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-glasgow-west-17433007


Looks like the Ticketus case is going to extra -time. Judge reckons he'll have some answers by the end of the week. (After the Lodge meeting)

I can't my head round an argument that a contract can be struck down because it would be bad for one party to the contract especially since that decision would be catastrophic to the other party as they would lose virtually their whole investment.

Also in another Court in London the administrators are arguing the same contract is in force and they are entitled to the £ 4.5 million or whatever that is in the London Lawyer's account.

Alice through the Looking Glass stuff. :confused:

[grunt]

This 5Live debate is rubbish. Why does no one pick up on the stupid comments and contradictions?

If someone else says "worldwide support" I'll scream!

"The reason that people should invest in Rangers is the strength of the support - look at what we took to Manchester". Indeed.

[grunt]

If someone else says "worldwide support" I'll scream!
Arrrghhh!!

[Ozyhibby]

90 min in and not one mention of dual contracts?

[magpie1892]

look at what we took to Manchester". Indeed.

:top marks

[grunt]

I think I've just been sick at the story of the wee boy.

Really, these fans are not on this planet, they're talking about being too big to play in the SPL. Words fail me.

Guess who said this? "I didn't know, I didn't know, I didn't know".

[Joe's ice cream]

Only got good in last few mins when Gordon Smith got challenged by a fan for not understanding what was happening at the club....talk about squirming

[green glory]

Only got good in last few mins when Gordon Smith got challenged by a fan for not understanding what was happening at the club....talk about squirming

Apart from that it was 2 hours of my life I'll never get back. Total waste of time as well as more of our money (license fee) over and above the tax they've stolen. On a brighter note they're heads are stuck firmly in the sand and they can't see the reaper standing behind them. RIP

[CropleyWasGod]

I think I've just been sick at the story of the wee boy.

Really, these fans are not on this planet, they're talking about being too big to play in the SPL. Words fail me.

Guess who said this? "I didn't know, I didn't know, I didn't know".

Ogilvie?

Smith?

Murray?

Johnson?

Bain?

Greig?

King?

[Springbank]

Ogilvie?

Smith?

Murray?

Johnson?

Bain?

Greig?

King?

Reminds me of the Norwegian commentator. "…your boys took one helluva beating"

[grunt]

Ogilvie?Smith?Murray?Johnson?Bain?Greig?King?You'v e got it right - it was of course highly regarded one time Chief Executive of the mighty SFA, erstwhile Director of Football at RFC, answering questions from a Rangers fan about why he didn't question Whyte's tactics of not paying the tax man. I'm sure someone will put that exchange on YouTube before long. Dear oh dear oh dear.

[PaulSmith]

The Jeff Randell interview with the tax expert was better than with Murray.
Tax gadgie believes that hmrc have emails to agents from rfc which prove the ebt's were contractural and therefore taxable.

[grunt]

I'm sure someone will put that exchange on YouTube before long.I love the internet!

http://soundcloud.com/celticresearch/mark-daly-smith/s-1lnXz

[NAE NOOKIE]

What a bloody Rangers love in that was.

I cant even begin to catalogue everything that was wrong with that programme.

In order to redress the balance they should do another broadcast lasting two hours with fans from the other 10 SPL clubs and ask us what we think the current situation is with Scottish football and the part Rangers and Celtic have played in bringing us to this point.

The whole of that programme was devoted to how we get Rangers back to a dominant place in Scottish football and competing with their bedfellows Celtic. The rest of the clubs didnt even get a mention, bit part players in a film dominated by its two main stars !!!

These bloody programmes always fail to address the decades old mindset which has got us to this point in the first place and that is reliance on money coming in from the OF to keep clubs afloat, a situation which to their shame our clubs have been happy to embrace. The whole next decade in our game should be dedicated to finding a way to remove all of our clubs from this idiotic scenario.

One of the guys speaking was on about how "we are unfairly seen as sectarian" .... does this deluded idiot not follow his club to ER then? was he not there this season when the whole crowd sang "whos the Finian in the black" at the Killie game?

And the final joke ..... Yet another deluded diatribe about joining the English leagues. These arrogant morons are on their bloody knees hoping against hope that they will avoid oblivion and they still talk about ( as they see it ) football Nirvana.

Unbelievable !!!

[CropleyWasGod]

Just found out that Smith said this last night:-

http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/football/17440413

That backs up my theory that CW's plan was all predicated on CL money.

Those pesky Swedes... :cb

[Hibbyradge]

43000 union jack flags to be sold prior to the OF game to try and raise funds. What a joke.

I don't understand what makes that a joke? :confused:

[magpie1892]

I don't understand what makes that a joke? :confused:

That they're asking £2 for a little plastic flag costing a c.2p to make?
That if you're on the other side of the turnstile you've already made a significant financial contribution?
That selling 43,000 flags will gross £86,000 and net, if they sell every single one, c.£70,000 against a total debt of at least £40m and maybe £100m?

It's like when Dundee were £20m in debt they decided to sell 'Dee4Life' mineral water to raise funds. They cleared about a grand.

If I were a hun on average wage I'd be keeping my hands firmly in my pockets until the apocalypse, as it's simply throwing good money after bad at the moment until the BTC result is known and the sums all done. Nothing 'loyal' about *****ing £2 on a Union Jack (Scottish club, Rangers, no?), it's just stupid.

[greenginger]

Just found out that Smith said this last night:-

http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/football/17440413

That backs up my theory that CW's plan was all predicated on CL money.

Those pesky Swedes... :cb


They still had time to reduce their outgoings by selling high wage earners like Mcgregor, Davis Etc and balancing their books.

Of course, the best fans in the world would have been outraged at the prospect of their Club being run within its budget and might have

Walked Away ! :greengrin

[RyeSloan]

What a bloody Rangers love in that was.

I cant even begin to catalogue everything that was wrong with that programme.

In order to redress the balance they should do another broadcast lasting two hours with fans from the other 10 SPL clubs and ask us what we think the current situation is with Scottish football and the part Rangers and Celtic have played in bringing us to this point.

The whole of that programme was devoted to how we get Rangers back to a dominant place in Scottish football and competing with their bedfellows Celtic. The rest of the clubs didnt even get a mention, bit part players in a film dominated by its two main stars !!!

These bloody programmes always fail to address the decades old mindset which has got us to this point in the first place and that is reliance on money coming in from the OF to keep clubs afloat, a situation which to their shame our clubs have been happy to embrace. The whole next decade in our game should be dedicated to finding a way to remove all of our clubs from this idiotic scenario.

One of the guys speaking was on about how "we are unfairly seen as sectarian" .... does this deluded idiot not follow his club to ER then? was he not there this season when the whole crowd sang "whos the Finian in the black" at the Killie game?

And the final joke ..... Yet another deluded diatribe about joining the English leagues. These arrogant morons are on their bloody knees hoping against hope that they will avoid oblivion and they still talk about ( as they see it ) football Nirvana.

Unbelievable !!!

Bit like Jim Traynor in the 'debate' on BBC a few nights ago saying Rangers must be saved to allow Scottish football to progress and develop.....just like it has with Rangers and Celtic dominating everything for the last 3 decades Jim.

Never liked the man but he really did show what a total trumpet he is and confirmed every time he opened his mouth that he knows nowt about the 'Scottish game' and is really only interested in the Glasgow duo.

As for the SFA and the SPL....oh lets have an inquiry to see what went wrong before we identify any 'learnings'....as ever no accountability, no contrition, no assurances that rules will be changed and every effort made to build a strong league system that allows fair competition across a number of teams....noooooo nothing of the sort.

Seems to me the powers that be in the SPL and SFA along with vast parts of the Scottish media are desperate for all of this to just go away so we can all get back to the cozy 2 way split of power and glory between Celtic and Rangers. I hope for this sake alone that Rangers are blown apart taking Ogilvie, Smith and the cancer of the OF bias with them.

[Jim44]

Bit like Jim Traynor in the 'debate' on BBC a few nights ago saying Rangers must be saved to allow Scottish football to progress and develop.....just like it has with Rangers and Celtic dominating everything for the last 3 decades Jim.

Never liked the man but he really did show what a total trumpet he is and confirmed every time he opened his mouth that he knows nowt about the 'Scottish game' and is really only interested in the Glasgow duo.

As for the SFA and the SPL....oh lets have an inquiry to see what went wrong before we identify any 'learnings'....as ever no accountability, no contrition, no assurances that rules will be changed and every effort made to build a strong league system that allows fair competition across a number of teams....noooooo nothing of the sort.

Seems to me the powers that be in the SPL and SFA along with vast parts of the Scottish media are desperate for all of this to just go away so we can all get back to the cozy 2 way split of power and glory between Celtic and Rangers. I hope for this sake alone that Rangers are blown apart taking Ogilvie, Smith and the cancer of the OF bias with them.

I think most people deep down know that every string possible will be pulled to allow Rangers to continue unscathed and they probably will. Scottish football is dying on it's feet and the SPL holds no future for the ten also rans. These ten clubs should resign from the SPL, apply to join the SFL and with sensible restructuring re-establish a viable, fair and competitive form which might just flourish in the future without the ugly sisters. who would die with nowhere to go.

[PatHead]

BBC saying 4th bid received from overseas buyer.

[ScottB]

I think most people deep down know that every string possible will be pulled to allow Rangers to continue unscathed and they probably will. Scottish football is dying on it's feet and the SPL holds no future for the ten also rans. These ten clubs should resign from the SPL, apply to join the SFL and with sensible restructuring re-establish a viable, fair and competitive form which might just flourish in the future without the ugly sisters. who would die with nowhere to go.

Seems to me that the SPL itself is the issue.

The old Premier Division was much more competitive, Old Firm 1-2s were rare, the winning margin was never 30 points plus etc.


We need a new league, with fair distribution of income, wage expenditure caps and strict rules to prevent the blatant cheating we currently see; owe the taxman money? Every game scheduled while you do is a 3-0 defeat. Can't pay players? Then you can't play them.

We need to bring back a sense of sporting integrity to the game, the nonsense with Rangers and Hearts flouting the system and basically cheating is putting me, and I'd wager many other fans, off the game entirely.

[Keith_M]

BBC saying 4th bid received from overseas buyer.


It was me. Do you think €1.50 is bit too much :wink:

[blindsummit]

Seems to me that the SPL itself is the issue.

The old Premier Division was much more competitive, Old Firm 1-2s were rare, the winning margin was never 30 points plus etc.


We need a new league, with fair distribution of income, wage expenditure caps and strict rules to prevent the blatant cheating we currently see; owe the taxman money? Every game scheduled while you do is a 3-0 defeat. Can't pay players? Then you can't play them.

We need to bring back a sense of sporting integrity to the game, the nonsense with Rangers and Hearts flouting the system and basically cheating is putting me, and I'd wager many other fans, off the game entirely.

Well said Scott. The big question is, have the non OF Chairs got the testicuar fortitude to get these things done. Rod maybe, but the rest?

[Hibrandenburg]

It was me. Do you think €1.50 is bit too much :wink:

I'll double your stake Keith and together we can form a consortium, buy a failing Scottish club and watch them rise from the ashes like a phoenix and return to their former glory. Would be nice to watch the Bluebell again after all those years ;-)

[sadtom]

I don't understand what makes that a joke? :confused:


I think its a joke because it flies in the face of their posturing and lip service to 'ridding the club of its sectarian image'.
Yes its the flag of the british state that we all live in, the reality is we all know what its REALLY about. It is der huns default position.
Just as the songbook is making a reappearance on matchday, they are now pandering to the lowest common denominator, the bigotry of their support as the 'rallying' point.
Ironic that they want to wave the british flag and bang on about their 'britishness', but dont seem to to happy to bide by the rules and the alleged traits of 'britishness' that they espouse. So called, fair play, decency, responsibility etc. Instead they've cheated the british public, her maj's taxpayer and handed wad of 'british' cash to hide in foreign bank accounts. How very british of them!!!
Look out for the imminent return of the orange away top. They just cant help themselves. Trailor trash!

[Hibrandenburg]

I think its a joke because it flies in the face of their posturing and lip service to 'ridding the club of its sectarian image'.
Yes its the flag of the british state that we all live in, the reality is we all know what its REALLY about. It is der huns default position.
Just as the songbook is making a reappearance on matchday, they are now pandering to the lowest common denominator, the bigotry of their support as the 'rallying' point.
Ironic that they want to wave the british flag and bang on about their 'britishness', but dont seem to to happy to bide by the rules and the alleged traits of 'britishness' that they espouse. So called, fair play, decency, responsibility etc. Instead they've cheated the british public, her maj's taxpayer and handed wad of 'british' cash to hide in foreign bank accounts. How very british of them!!!
Look out for the imminent return of the orange away top. They just cant help themselves. Trailor trash!


Yes and isn't it quite fitting that instead of being up to their knees they are now up to their necks.

[stokesmessiah]

I think its a joke because it flies in the face of their posturing and lip service to 'ridding the club of its sectarian image'.
Yes its the flag of the british state that we all live in, the reality is we all know what its REALLY about. It is der huns default position.
Just as the songbook is making a reappearance on matchday, they are now pandering to the lowest common denominator, the bigotry of their support as the 'rallying' point.
Ironic that they want to wave the british flag and bang on about their 'britishness', but dont seem to to happy to bide by the rules and the alleged traits of 'britishness' that they espouse. So called, fair play, decency, responsibility etc. Instead they've cheated the british public, her maj's taxpayer and handed wad of 'british' cash to hide in foreign bank accounts. How very british of them!!!
Look out for the imminent return of the orange away top. They just cant help themselves. Trailor trash!

Funny you should mention that as there was a thread on the bears den the other day about bringing the orange top back!

[ancient hibee]

It was me. Do you think €1.50 is bit too much :wink:

As long as you've got the lawyers letter saying you've got the dosh it'll be OK.

[keep the faith]

BBC saying 4th bid received from overseas buyer.

So the last friday deadline is pretty flexible eh?

This is some administration....

[Seveno]

Funny you should mention that as there was a thread on the bears den the other day about bringing the orange top back!

The story has been slowed down so that Croppers can get on with some work. :greengrin

[PaulSmith]

C4 tonight at 7pm should be interesting