Generic Sevco / Rangers meltdown thread

[northstandhibby]

The rules are quite clear. Where a Club, whether owned and operated by the same or a different person

The new club/old club argument is irrelevant on this point.

A good lawyer could ride a coach and horses through that wooly wording. How can you hold a new club liable for a previous clubs insolvency event?

Just my personal viewpoint and not looking for an argument.

:aok:

[Ozyhibby]

They will make it to February.


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[CropleyWasGod]

A good lawyer could ride a coach and horses through that wooly wording. How can you hold a new club liable for a previous clubs insolvency event?

Just my personal viewpoint and not looking for an argument.

:aok:

That's based on your view that it's a new club, though. :greengrin

[Ozyhibby]

I might be missing something but I didn't see anything in Phil's article that was not already known and made me think it's any more likely than I thought it was before?


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[CropleyWasGod]

They will make it to February.


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Yep, that's my view.

[northstandhibby]

That's based on your view that it's a new club, though. :greengrin


:aok:

[CropleyWasGod]

I might be missing something but I didn't see anything in Phil's article that was not already known and made me think it's any more likely than I thought it was before?


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I'm with you on that, too. It's basically just rehashing the audit report from the accounts, which was discussed everywhere at the time.

[greenginger]

A good lawyer could ride a coach and horses through that wooly wording. How can you hold a new club liable for a previous clubs insolvency event?

Just my personal viewpoint and not looking for an argument.

:aok:

Because the new club has the old club's football license and the previous misdemeanors travel with the license.

At least , that is how I think it was explained in some SFA blurb a while back.

[northstandhibby]

Because the new club has the old club's football license and the previous misdemeanors travel with the license.

At least , that is how I think it was explained in some SFA blurb a while back.

Maybe similar to a criminal record or points on a driving licence?

:aok:

[CropleyWasGod]

Maybe similar to a criminal record or points on a driving licence?

:aok:

Or a bad smell. :greengrin

[northstandhibby]

Or a bad smell. :greengrin

:top marks

Just brilliant. First laugh out loud of the day for me.

:aok:

[Trainor]

It'll be interesting to see what happens at the end of the season if and when Sevco qualify for Europe. This bit suggests that they might be alright -

UEFA may choose (and possibly likely they will) to offer a settlement agreement, under Article 15, in a bid to allow the club to financially rehabilitate themselves and set out a 'roadmap' to reach break even, in the foreseeable future. This will allow the club to compete in competitions.

Also, in theory, Sevco have the Lying King's £30m (:faf:) warchest in reserve which might mitigate any bother they find themselves in.



Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk[/QUOTE]

Let's not forget our "authorities" will bend over (literally) to help them in any way they can too!

[ScottB]

I recall Stirling wanting to change their name to the Stirling Albion Meerkats as part of a sponsorship deal, and the SFA said no.

Not that that would stop them reaching a different conclusion if Rangers wanted to do something similar.

[Ozyhibby]

http://www.philmacgiollabhain.ie/the-scottish-government-responds-on-ibrox-roof-issue/


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[Keith_M]

http://www.philmacgiollabhain.ie/the-scottish-government-responds-on-ibrox-roof-issue/


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Does he really think those in charge at Ibrox will respond to his inquiries?


He claims this has nothing to do with petty rivalry and he's only concerned about safety..... Aye, right!

[brog]

Does he really think those in charge at Ibrox will respond to his inquiries?


He claims this has nothing to do with petty rivalry and he's only concerned about safety..... Aye, right!


Agreed! If his real concern was about safety he would have made the same enquiry re PBS years ago!

[fat freddy]

Regardless of his angle, and i agree he is using the rusted roof brackets to highlight the lack of funds at Ibrox, there does appear to be a serious issue regarding the safety of those attending sectarian singing lessons in Govan. Maybe its not a bad thing that we're in Div 1, if it fell down while we were there we'd all get lifted for aggravated assault to rusted bolts

[HoboHarry]

Does he really think those in charge at Ibrox will respond to his inquiries?


He claims this has nothing to do with petty rivalry and he's only concerned about safety..... Aye, right!
So he has an agenda - who cares? Personally I enjoy reading Phil's blogs. Like everyone else he gets some stuff correct and some wrong but he is a damn sight more insightful than the morons who represent our national newspapers.

[fat freddy]

So he has an agenda - who cares? Personally I enjoy reading Phil's blogs. Like everyone else he gets some stuff correct and some wrong but he is a damn sight more insightful than the morons who represent our national newspapers.

Agreed, i never miss an article and i enjoy John James too, his recent slandering of Richard Gough was very brave and very very funny, the guy has no fear

[jacomo]

So he has an agenda - who cares? Personally I enjoy reading Phil's blogs. Like everyone else he gets some stuff correct and some wrong but he is a damn sight more insightful than the morons who represent our national newspapers.

Attention-seeking bloggers held to rather lower standards than the MSM, I would submit.

Phil was confidently predicting Armageddon 2 all last season. Didnae happen, did it?

[hibs0666]

Attention-seeking bloggers held to rather lower standards than the MSM, I would submit.

Phil was confidently predicting Armageddon 2 all last season. Didnae happen, did it?

Our Phil earns a coin from his blog. I guess he has to keep talking armegeddon until the subscriptions dry up.

[HoboHarry]

Attention-seeking bloggers held to rather lower standards than the MSM, I would submit.

Phil was confidently predicting Armageddon 2 all last season. Didnae happen, did it?

That will be the high standards maintained by the Daily Record et al? Give me Phil any day of the week. And as far as I recall he did not claim that they were about to shut down other than if they failed to secure external finance - and they have done exactly that, that's beyond dispute. Dave King said it himself.....

[Jack]

That will be the high standards maintained by the Daily Record et al? Give me Phil any day of the week. And as far as I recall he did not claim that they were about to shut down other than if they failed to secure external finance - and they have done exactly that, that's beyond dispute. Dave King said it himself.....

That's last bit's a joke aye?

It was believable up till then!!!

[HoboHarry]

That's last bit's a joke aye?

It was believable up till then!!!
Not sure what you mean? Dave King stated at the recent meeting that they would continue to overspend and require additional external finance? Well covered by the press at the time......

[Bostonhibby]

Not sure what you mean? Dave King stated at the recent meeting that they would continue to overspend and require additional external finance? Well covered by the press at the time......
Overspending? Aye, all big teams do it, dodgy is just biding his time.

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[HoboHarry]

Overspending? Aye, all big teams do it, dodgy is just biding his time.

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Not disputing there may be a plan of some sort afoot but it's hard to see what it is at this point. Its pretty clear that the GASL doesn't have any money, at least none that he is prepared to donate to Sevco.....

[Bostonhibby]

Not disputing there may be a plan of some sort afoot but it's hard to see what it is at this point. Its pretty clear that the GASL doesn't have any money, at least none that he is prepared to donate to Sevco.....
I'm with you, was being sarcastic, the untold wealth never has appeared and ain't gonna. He's hoping at best to claw back previous losses.

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[HoboHarry]

I'm with you, was being sarcastic, the untold wealth never has appeared and ain't gonna. He's hoping at best to claw back previous losses.

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Oh ok that was a woosh moment for me then. I thought maybe a brick from one of those old buildings in Boston had come down and hit you on the head at some point :greengrin

[Bostonhibby]

Oh ok that was a woosh moment for me then. I thought maybe a brick from one of those old buildings in Boston had come down and hit you on the head at some point :greengrin
[emoji1] [emoji106]

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[Joe6-2]

So he has an agenda - who cares? Personally I enjoy reading Phil's blogs. Like everyone else he gets some stuff correct and some wrong but he is a damn sight more insightful than the morons who represent our national newspapers.
This!

[Dashing Bob S]

So he has an agenda - who cares? Personally I enjoy reading Phil's blogs. Like everyone else he gets some stuff correct and some wrong but he is a damn sight more insightful than the morons who represent our national newspapers.

The other advantage he has over the newspapers is that he can write a sentence that doesn't corrode your IQ.

[magpie1892]

Agreed, i never miss an article and i enjoy John James too, his recent slandering of Richard Gough was very brave


Which bit was slander?


The other advantage he has over the newspapers is that he can write a sentence that doesn't corrode your IQ.

This has to be a joke. His written style is appalling and repetitive.

The one sentence paragraphs.

The unending use of 'apropos', 'for the avoidance of doubt', 'chapeau', etc.

I do like (some of) his content, but a writer he is not. He needs a sub-editor as well, badly.

[cabbageandribs1875]

Mmmm 1190 pages :hmmm: hopefully the cream buns are dead and buried by page 1690



only 500 pages to go

[HoboHarry]

Which bit was slander?



This has to be a joke. His written style is appalling and repetitive.

The one sentence paragraphs.

The unending use of 'apropos', 'for the avoidance of doubt', 'chapeau', etc.

I do like (some of) his content, but a writer he is not.He needs a sub-editor as well,[/B] badly.[/U][/I][/B]
I disagree and the popularity of his blog would suggest otherwise too. It's not the way I would write, but it's his style and he has many people reading his blogs including people like you who don't like his writing style. The content it would seem outweighs any other negative factors.......

[Keith_M]

T'Rangers are about to announce a massive sponsorship deal from a company (https://www.billy-boy.de/alle-billyboy-produkte/kondome.html) very well known in Germany but not so much in the UK.


They are, in so many ways, a perfect fit...

[Keith_M]

I disagree and the popularity of his blog would suggest otherwise too. It's not the way I would write, but it's his style and he has many people reading his blogs including people like you who don't like his writing style. The content it would seem outweighs any other negative factors.......


His Blog has a lot of views because of the size of his intended audience, Celtc Fans.

His writing style suggests a guy so far up his own anus that he views the world from behind his teeth.


To be fair to him, though, he hasn't written any articles claiming that DerHun were about to receive a massive bill because they were stealing water from the church next door...

[Moulin Yarns]

T'Rangers are about to announce a massive sponsorship deal from a company (https://www.billy-boy.de/alle-billyboy-produkte/kondome.html) very well known in Germany but not so much in the UK.


They are, in so many ways, a perfect fit...


http://www.hibs.net/images/smilies/thumbs%20up.gif

That is some squad they have lined up although I suspect there might still be leaks in their defence :wink:

[blackpoolhibs]

http://www.hibs.net/images/smilies/thumbs%20up.gif

That is some squad they have lined up although I suspect there might still be leaks in their defence :wink:

Aye maybe so, but 99% of the time they will be keeping clean sheets.

[Mr White]

http://www.hibs.net/images/smilies/thumbs%20up.gif

That is some squad they have lined up although I suspect there might still be leaks in their defence :wink:

They'd be delighted to be associated with a product unlikely to be used by many practicing catholics.

[Keith_M]

They'd be delighted to be associated with a product unlikely to be used by many practicing catholics.


...and already widely used by so many 'Huns'



:wink:

[magpie1892]

I disagree and the popularity of his blog would suggest otherwise too. It's not the way I would write, but it's his style and he has many people reading his blogs including people like you who don't like his writing style. The content it would seem outweighs any other negative factors.......

I don't disagree regarding his popularity, I'm just saying he's an appalling writer - style, grammar, tenor, spelling, syntax, repetition, etc. All need attention.

[hibees 7062]

https://scontent-lhr3-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/15492220_226498361127783_7794026355090077814_n.jpg ?oh=184c0fb7430e1ffca1afc0bf32e070d1&oe=58EC5340

[fat freddy]

[QUOTE=magpie1892;4879367]Which bit was slander?


The bits about sneaking out of The Scotland training camp to pick up under age rent boys and then having a marriage of convenience arranged to deflect from his rampant desire for penetrating young boys whilst on Scotland international duty. I was shocked that he came right out and said it, we've all heard the rumours but no one in the mainstream media has even touched upon it, let alone put themselves up there to be shot down if the accusations aren't true. It was brave and possibly slanderous, depends if its true or not. As he has now recieved a cease and desist letter from Goughs lawyer it is clear he has rattled a few cages and Goughs next move will be very instructive. Sue to save his reputation? The alternative is silence and that may just prove to those following this story that Johnjames has revealed a truth.

[HoboHarry]

[QUOTE=magpie1892;4879367]Which bit was slander?


The bits about sneaking out of The Scotland training camp to pick up under age rent boys and then having a marriage of convenience arranged to deflect from his rampant desire for penetrating young boys whilst on Scotland international duty. I was shocked that he came right out and said it, we've all heard the rumours but no one in the mainstream media has even touched upon it, let alone put themselves up there to be shot down if the accusations aren't true. It was brave and possibly slanderous, depends if its true or not. As he has now recieved a cease and desist letter from Goughs lawyer it is clear he has rattled a few cages and Goughs next move will be very instructive. Sue to save his reputation? The alternative is silence and that may just prove to those following this story that Johnjames has revealed a truth.
It was stated after the article that the lawyers letter from Thomsons (?) was a hoax and they had written no such thing......

[fat freddy]

[QUOTE=fat freddy;4879747]
It was stated after the article that the lawyers letter from Thomsons (?) was a hoax and they had written no such thing......

Interesting, the plot thickens, so it could be argued that Gough doesnt know whats been written about him? I find that hard to believe so his silence on the outing of the story remains a blot on his character. Not good from a sevco point of view given he is a club ambassador and paedophilia is to the forefront in many peoples minds at the moment.

[CropleyWasGod]

[QUOTE=HoboHarry;4879748]

Interesting, the plot thickens, so it could be argued that Gough doesnt know whats been written about him? I find that hard to believe so his silence on the outing of the story remains a blot on his character. Not good from a sevco point of view given he is a club ambassador and paedophilia is to the forefront in many peoples minds at the moment.
Did the blog mention young boys, or young men?

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[HoboHarry]

[QUOTE=fat freddy;4879751]
Did the blog mention young boys, or young men?

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JJ stated that there was a belief that one of the boys was 15 at the time.....

https://johnjamessite.com/2016/12/10/wish-you-were-here/

[CropleyWasGod]

[QUOTE=CropleyWasGod;4879758]
JJ stated that there was a belief that one of the boys was 15 at the time.....

https://johnjamessite.com/2016/12/10/wish-you-were-here/
Just saw that, thanks.

He also says that soliciting sexual services is a crime. It isn't. However, that's probably not the main issue here.

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[HoboHarry]

[QUOTE=HoboHarry;4879764]
Just saw that, thanks.

He also says that soliciting sexual services is a crime. It isn't. However, that's probably not the main issue here.

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Really? So anyone in the UK can approach a hooker and negotiate a fee and that's not illegal?

[Ozyhibby]

[QUOTE=CropleyWasGod;4879768]
Really? So anyone in the UK can approach a hooker and negotiate a fee and that's not illegal?

I think it is for the hooker but not the bloke. Shameful really.


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[truehibernian]

[QUOTE=HoboHarry;4879764]
Just saw that, thanks.

He also says that soliciting sexual services is a crime. It isn't. However, that's probably not the main issue here.

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I think the time bar was removed from 2005 legislation (Protection of Children / Sexual Offences) so technically he is correct CWG - grooming, soliciting, payment, etc. I'll check.

I recall going to the Rangers v Hibs final (McCoist overhead kick) and said Rangers player getting it tight from the stands - it may have been around that time it was in some kind of public domain ?

Either way, hope all involved in abuse are identified and prosecuted - I also hope that it's through legal process and the media don't hijack cases presented and risk cases falling through - and allow the courts to do their work diligently.

[CropleyWasGod]

[QUOTE=HoboHarry;4879769]

I think it is for the hooker but not the bloke. Shameful really.


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It's not illegal to sell sex either.

It's illegal to solicit to sell sex in a public place. It's also illegal to kerb crawl for sex.

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[CropleyWasGod]

[QUOTE=CropleyWasGod;4879768]
Really? So anyone in the UK can approach a hooker and negotiate a fee and that's not illegal?
Anyone can buy sex ....unless you live in Northern Ireland

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[oldbutdim]

I've been paying for sex for 37 years.

[fat freddy]

[QUOTE=HoboHarry;4879769]
Anyone can buy sex ....unless you live in Northern Ireland

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Do you have to barter for it in Northern Ireland?

[jacomo]

I've been paying for sex for 37 years.

Life sentence.

:wink:

[magpie1892]

[QUOTE=magpie1892;4879367]Which bit was slander?


The bits about sneaking out of The Scotland training camp to pick up under age rent boys and then having a marriage of convenience arranged to deflect from his rampant desire for penetrating young boys whilst on Scotland international duty. I was shocked that he came right out and said it, we've all heard the rumours but no one in the mainstream media has even touched upon it, let alone put themselves up there to be shot down if the accusations aren't true. It was brave and possibly slanderous, depends if its true or not. As he has now recieved a cease and desist letter from Goughs lawyer it is clear he has rattled a few cages and Goughs next move will be very instructive. Sue to save his reputation? The alternative is silence and that may just prove to those following this story that Johnjames has revealed a truth.

It's slander if it's spoken. Libel if written down. Neither if true.

[pacorosssco]

[QUOTE=HoboHarry;4879748]

Interesting, the plot thickens, so it could be argued that Gough doesnt know whats been written about him? I find that hard to believe so his silence on the outing of the story remains a blot on his character. Not good from a sevco point of view given he is a club ambassador and paedophilia is to the forefront in many peoples minds at the moment.

This will be bigger than Jimmy across all clubs. Where kids are , offenders are. With Rangers player mentioned . Who knows , I dont. You are dammed if you do dammed if you dont though with response. At school a kid older me was accused , got beat a lot and his wee brother was branded. Was innocent story was made up but both lifes school and locally was not easy. Name stuck . Both did nothing at all

[Keith_M]

Could one of the nice Admins do us all a favour and fix the quotes in the above posts?

This is getting verrrrry complicated



:wink:

[CropleyWasGod]

BDO's latest report....

https://www.bdo.co.uk/en-gb/rfc-2012-plc

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[Keith_M]

BDO's latest report....

https://www.bdo.co.uk/en-gb/rfc-2012-plc




Does it say how much in total that BDO have now siphoned off in Fees in the last four years?

[Prof. Shaggy]

Does it say how much in total that BDO have now siphoned off in Fees in the last four years?

£3,084,503.92

I think.

+ £191,364.84

[CropleyWasGod]

Does it say how much in total that BDO have now siphoned off in Fees in the last four years?
Yep.

It also says that they got £24m from the former lawyers, and that they are still pursuing D&P. It also says that they have rejected all claims by CW and his related companies on the creditors' pot.

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[grunt]

Does it say how much in total that BDO have now siphoned off in Fees in the last four years?


£3,084,503.92

I think.

+ £191,364.84Seems that Stephenson Harwood (lawyers) have had fees of £6.8m, largely to do with the case against Collyer Bristow, which, given it brought in £24m seems to have been money well spent.

[HoboHarry]

Obviously I don't know what is true and what's not, but there could be some fun in the new year if even half of it is....

https://johnjamessite.com/2016/12/18/lifting-the-lid-on-kings-can-of-worms/

[northstandhibby]

Obviously I don't know what is true and what's not, but there could be some fun in the new year if even half of it is....

https://johnjamessite.com/2016/12/18/lifting-the-lid-on-kings-can-of-worms/

One thing we do know for sure is Craig Whyte didn't sell on a 'basket of assets' to Charles Green. They were bought from the administrators because a CVA could not be agreed on and Rangers went into liquidation 31st October 2012.

The rest of it sounds like Police Scotland and the Fraud Squad should be involved and fully address all of the issues as it sounds very much that criminality and financial criminality has occurred.

As for the Daily Record that should be investigated for crimes against truth and journalism.

Glory Glory

[CropleyWasGod]

A few thoughts on JJ's piece.

1. BDO, in their latest report, seem fairly confident that Worthington have no claim on the assets and no right to any dividend in the liquidation.

2. They also say that D&P are still refusing to reply to certain questions that have been asked of them. One can only speculate on what they are 😉

3. Putting JJ and BDO'S versions together, I wouldn't be surprised if D&P aren't yet out of the woods. Their attempt at suing Police Scotland may be a smokescreen to divert attention from that.

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[snedzuk]

Obviously I don't know what is true and what's not, but there could be some fun in the new year if even half of it is....

https://johnjamessite.com/2016/12/18/lifting-the-lid-on-kings-can-of-worms/

Its an interesting read but given the mixing of 'tortuous' and 'tortious' and the errors in font sizes on the contents page maybe not as genuine as it purports to be.

[grunt]

​I just don't believe a word he says any more.

[Off the bar]

​I just don't believe a word he says any more.

I just can't be arsed reading him any more, I lose the will to live after the first paragraph

[Renfrew_Hibby]

[QUOTE=CropleyWasGod;4879758]
JJ stated that there was a belief that one of the boys was 15 at the time.....

https://johnjamessite.com/2016/12/10/wish-you-were-here/

Don't read any of these blogs or keep up with all this sort of stuff. What I do know is that Craig Brown dropped Gough and I don't think he ever recalled him... Gough was leading Gers 9 in a row and was seen as a true leader of men. Why so then Craig?
Said in an interview that he would take the secret of why to his grave and that despite constant pressure from the media and fans, he was true to his word.
He said it was a matter of team spirit but the Gers 9 in a row was built on team spirit of which he was captain...

[HoboHarry]

[QUOTE=HoboHarry;4879764]

Don't read any of these blogs or keep up with all this sort of stuff. What I do know is that Craig Brown dropped Gough and I don't think he ever recalled him... Gough was leading Gers 9 in a row and was seen as a true leader of men. Why so then Craig?
Said in an interview that he would take the secret of why to his grave and that despite constant pressure from the media and fans, he was true to his word.
He said it was a matter of team spirit but the Gers 9 in a row was built on team spirit of which he was captain...
My memory isn't what it used to be but my recollection is that it was Andy Roxburgh that dropped Gough and Brown maintained that stance......

[The Green Goblin]

[QUOTE=HoboHarry;4879764]

Don't read any of these blogs or keep up with all this sort of stuff. What I do know is that Craig Brown dropped Gough and I don't think he ever recalled him... Gough was leading Gers 9 in a row and was seen as a true leader of men. Why so then Craig?
Said in an interview that he would take the secret of why to his grave and that despite constant pressure from the media and fans, he was true to his word.
He said it was a matter of team spirit but the Gers 9 in a row was built on team spirit of which he was captain...

Interesting. :agree: (Btw, Craig Brown is still alive.)

[livi hibs 1875]

[QUOTE=Renfrew_Hibby;4883071]
My memory isn't what it used to be but my recollection is that it was Andy Roxburgh that dropped Gough and Brown maintained that stance......

Brown's version of what happened.https://www.google.co.uk/url?sa=t&source=web&rct=j&url=http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/27948434&ved=0ahUKEwjps8zcuYDRAhUlBMAKHRpWB2QQFggaMAA&usg=AFQjCNHlGcJ7ExnAK6hRgAs6HpqqdiaR3A

[HoboHarry]

[QUOTE=Renfrew_Hibby;4883071]

Interesting. :agree: (Btw, Craig Brown is still alive.)
I'm not sure why name is on that, it wasn't my post but that said it's not far off of what I recall. I am getting old though...... :greengrin

[Keith_M]

I'm not sure why name is on that, it wasn't my post but that said it's not far off of what I recall. I am getting old though...... :greengrin


People are messing with the quotes again, which makes it hard to see who said what when a lot of people start quoting each other.



https://pbs.twimg.com/media/CXd1_K2W8AEwxRK.jpg


:greengrin

[HoboHarry]

Keekaboo - look at my comment 35733 - I responded to Green Goblin but it showed the quote by Renfrew Hibby - that was nothing I did deliberately.......

[Keith_M]

Keekaboo - look at my comment 35733 - I responded to Green Goblin but it showed the quote by Renfrew Hibby - that was nothing I did deliberately.......



I know that bud, I wasn't meaning to complain to you.

:aok:




The problem is when one person messes one quote then there are a series of people quoting. You completely lose track of who said what.


In fact, I'm now not sure you're the person I should actually be responding to :wink:

[HoboHarry]

I know that bud, I wasn't meaning to complain to you.

:aok:




The problem is when one person messes one quote then there are a series of people quoting. You completely lose track of who said what.


In fact, I'm now not sure you're the person I should actually be responding to :wink:
I'm not and you didn't, I'm not here. I'm invisible.......

:greengrin

[Iain G]

[QUOTE=HoboHarry;4883088]

Brown's version of what happened.https://www.google.co.uk/url?sa=t&source=web&rct=j&url=http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/27948434&ved=0ahUKEwjps8zcuYDRAhUlBMAKHRpWB2QQFggaMAA&usg=AFQjCNHlGcJ7ExnAK6hRgAs6HpqqdiaR3A

Assume its cos he was a right arrogant sod?!? :confused:

[Keith_M]

I'm not and you didn't, I'm not here. I'm invisible.......

:greengrin



Now I have a headache, I think I need to go for a lie down


:dizzy:

[HoboHarry]

[QUOTE=livi hibs 1875;4883146]

Assume its cos he was a right arrogant sod?!? :confused:
If it was that reason then that would be a world away from the belief among some of what the problem actually was. There is a link in post 35705......

[The Green Goblin]

Keekaboo - look at my comment 35733 - I responded to Green Goblin but it showed the quote by Renfrew Hibby - that was nothing I did deliberately.......

Yes, I just clicked on reply to post as normal. I promise :greengrin I didn't mess around with anything.

[Keith_M]

[QUOTE=HoboHarry;4883173]Keekaboo - look at my comment 35733 - I responded to Green Goblin but it showed the quote by Renfrew Hibby - that was nothing I did deliberately.......
Yes, I just clicked on reply to post as normal. I promise :greengrin I didn't mess around with anything.




See, I can do it as well :wink:

[HoboHarry]

So Keekaboo you have a German keyboard, Green Goblin has a Portuguese keyboard and I have an American keyboard. This is a multi-nation, international scale problem.......

[Keith_M]

So Keekaboo you have a German keyboard, Green Goblin has a Portuguese keyboard and I have an American keyboard. This is a multi-nation, international scale problem.......


Ay Caramba!

[johnbc70]

I remember the Richard Gough chants in the 90s when we played Rangers at ER. Sure most do.

[Keith_M]

I remember the Richard Gough chants in the 90s when we played Rangers at ER. Sure most do.


I remember it really well from the 93 LC Final.

I presumed there was no substance to it and it was just typical baiting of the opposition.

[Hibernia&Alba]

This seems like a good time for my "when can we expect them to go bust again" question :greengrin

[Keith_M]

This seems like a good time for my "when can we expect them to go bust again" question :greengrin


What do you mean 'again'?


This is a different Club



:offski:









:greengrin

[Hibernia&Alba]

What do you mean 'again'?


This is a different Club



:offski:









:greengrin

It's the same fans; that's good enough :agree:

[magpie1892]

I presumed there was no substance to it and it was just typical baiting of the opposition.

It wasn't.

[Bostonhibby]

I remember it really well from the 93 LC Final.

I presumed there was no substance to it and it was just typical baiting of the opposition.

Unfortunately I remember that final only too well, and the singing.

With hindsight I reckon the suggestion is that the "loyal" media did then what we now know they are very good at?:dunno:

[The Green Goblin]

I remember it really well from the 93 LC Final.

I presumed there was no substance to it and it was just typical baiting of the opposition.

I was at that final too. I suppose we should count our lucky stars that (unlike earlier this year) they didn't respond to all the "baiting", "goading" and "verbal abuse" by running onto the park and battering our lads.

[CyberSauzee]

I remember it really well from the 93 LC Final.

I presumed there was no substance to it and it was just typical baiting of the opposition.

I can remember the tabloid coverage of Gough being caught in a car and receiving a police caution. Just as quickly as it was in the press there was never any mention of it again anywhere.

John James has put it out there again and there's been no rebuttal yet...

[CropleyWasGod]

I can remember the tabloid coverage of Gough being caught in a car and receiving a police caution. Just as quickly as it was in the press there was never any mention of it again anywhere.

John James has put it out there again and there's been no rebuttal yet...
Can you remember what the caution was for?

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[Springbank]

Now I have a headache, I think I need to go for a lie down


:dizzy:

Yeah I'm like "but is it the same quote, with all the history of the original quote retained? Or is it a Newquote? And if the quote is deleted would that be a 15 point penalty, or 25?"

[Keith_M]

Yeah I'm like "but is it the same quote, with all the history of the original quote retained? Or is it a Newquote? And if the quote is deleted would that be a 15 point penalty, or 25?"


:faf:

[jacomo]

I can remember the tabloid coverage of Gough being caught in a car and receiving a police caution. Just as quickly as it was in the press there was never any mention of it again anywhere.

John James has put it out there again and there's been no rebuttal yet...

I may not be fully aware of all the allegations, but from what I can see JJ's 'outing' of Gough is disgraceful.

So what if he enjoyed the company of rent boys? So long as it was consensual, what business is it of anyone else's?

JJ seems to be linking it to the emerging abuse scandal, yet I've not seen any allegations that Gough was involved in that at all.

His name is being dragged through the mud here. Is it really necessary?

[Keith_M]

I may not be fully aware of all the allegations, but from what I can see JJ's 'outing' of Gough is disgraceful.

So what if he enjoyed the company of rent boys? So long as it was consensual, what business is it of anyone else's?

JJ seems to be linking it to the emerging abuse scandal, yet I've not seen any allegations that Gough was involved in that at all.

His name is being dragged through the mud here. Is it really necessary?



Yeah, I find the whole thing disgusting, but that doesn't necessarily mean he's committed an offence of any kind... or that it was done without the consent of the other party, which would make it sexual abuse.

Is there any suggestion the boys were under age?

[Betty Boop]

I'm surprised folk take any notice of John James who quite clearly has an obsession with Rangers and an agenda. No right in the heid.

[northstandhibby]

I'm surprised folk take any notice of John James who quite clearly has an obsession with Rangers and an agenda. No right in the heid.

In contrast I think it's great people are keeping tabs on what's happening with the rangers. They are a poison to our game allied with their puppet smsm and some at the governing bodies. They have a crooked lying king in charge who should never have passed any fit and proper persons checks. Their supporters constantly sing sectarian hatred and let off smokebombs and fireworks without anything done about it.

I think the likes of JohnJames are to be congratulated not put down because they highlight possible wrongdoing by the rangers.

Glory Glory

[brog]

Its an interesting read but given the mixing of 'tortuous' and 'tortious' and the errors in font sizes on the contents page maybe not as genuine as it purports to be.

"Tortious interference" is the correct term, there's no mix up here.

[northstandhibby]

I may not be fully aware of all the allegations, but from what I can see JJ's 'outing' of Gough is disgraceful.

So what if he enjoyed the company of rent boys? So long as it was consensual, what business is it of anyone else's?

JJ seems to be linking it to the emerging abuse scandal, yet I've not seen any allegations that Gough was involved in that at all.

His name is being dragged through the mud here. Is it really necessary?

:top marks

If it was consensual and they were not underage then it is no-one else's business. If Craig Brown suspects RG did anything criminal as per underage then he should have reported RG if not then Craig Brown was wrongful to act in the way he did.

[brog]

Yeah, I find the whole thing disgusting, but that doesn't necessarily mean he's committed an offence of any kind... or that it was done without the consent of the other party, which would make it sexual abuse.

Is there any suggestion the boys were under age?


See post 35705


JJ stated that there was a belief that one of the boys was 15 at the time.....

https://johnjamessite.com/2016/12/10...you-were-here/ (https://johnjamessite.com/2016/12/10/wish-you-were-here/)

[brog]

:top marks

If it was consensual and they were not underage then it is no-one else's business. If Craig Brown suspects RG did anything criminal as per underage then he should have reported RG if not then Craig Brown was wrongful to act in the way he did.

I pretty much agree & I believe the key word is consensual. However we must remember at the time of these alleged occurrences Gough was Rangers & Scotland captain. He potentially had the opportunity to use ( or abuse ) his highly regarded position to unduly influence events. There's a myriad of laws which can be used to charge someone with taking advantage of a ( possibly vulnerable ) person & they're not all predicated on that person's age. I think the main point here though is if nothing wrong took place then why was there this alleged cover up, to which Craig Brown also seems to be referring? Like Watergate the cover up may end up being more problematic than the offence. As for Craig Brown, I've been in his company on several occasions & he's an intelligent & witty man but he's always been a self-serving publicist. Time for him to put up or shut up.

[northstandhibby]

I pretty much agree & I believe the key word is consensual. However we must remember at the time of these alleged occurrences Gough was Rangers & Scotland captain. He potentially had the opportunity to use ( or abuse ) his highly regarded position to unduly influence events. There's a myriad of laws which can be used to charge someone with taking advantage of a ( possibly vulnerable ) person & they're not all predicated on that person's age. I think the main point here though is if nothing wrong took place then why was there this alleged cover up, to which Craig Brown also seems to be referring? Like Watergate the cover up may end up being more problematic than the offence. As for Craig Brown, I've been in his company on several occasions & he's an intelligent & witty man but he's always been a self-serving publicist. Time for him to put up or shut up.

Great points well put. It may not have been as simplistic as simply paying for sex with appropriately aged adults for if it was Craig Brown was wrongful to judge RG. Craig Brown has left a lot of question marks with his shrouded remarks regarding RG and as you say should enlighten us or never have spoken about it at all.

Glory Glory

[jacomo]

See post 35705


JJ stated that there was a belief that one of the boys was 15 at the time.....

https://johnjamessite.com/2016/12/10...you-were-here/ (https://johnjamessite.com/2016/12/10/wish-you-were-here/)

That is worded very vaguely and no evidence provided.

He says that Gough received a caution, but not what for. Cottaging could be a criminal matter, but lots of gay men have been prosecuted for crimes that, in the grand scheme of things, harmed nobody.

I stand by my earlier comment. Unless JJ has evidence to the contrary, his moral finger-pointing at Gough disgusts me. I get the point about police / media collusion around Rangers, but I find the tone of his piece quite troubling.

[southern hibby]

Not sure, but I've a vague recollection of people saying at the time the boy was 16 and folk saying law states that you had to be 21 for same gender relationship.

Let's be honest, we can speculate all we want but that doesn't make him guilty of any crime. However if he is hopefully the truth will come out.

GGTTH

[CropleyWasGod]

Not sure, but I've a vague recollection of people saying at the time the boy was 16 and folk saying law states that you had to be 21 for same gender relationship.

Let's be honest, we can speculate all we want but that doesn't make him guilty of any crime. However if he is hopefully the truth will come out.

GGTTH

That's the only thing I can think of that would have been against the law at that time. Kerb-crawling wasn't an offence back then.

[jacomo]

That's the only thing I can think of that would have been against the law at that time. Kerb-crawling wasn't an offence back then.

Cottaging can be prosecuted under public decency laws.

George Michael got arrested a few years ago for, IIRC, exposing himself in a public toilet.

[brog]

That is worded very vaguely and no evidence provided.

He says that Gough received a caution, but not what for. Cottaging could be a criminal matter, but lots of gay men have been prosecuted for crimes that, in the grand scheme of things, harmed nobody.

I stand by my earlier comment. Unless JJ has evidence to the contrary, his moral finger-pointing at Gough disgusts me. I get the point about police / media collusion around Rangers, but I find the tone of his piece quite troubling.

It was a very strong piece & contained much more detail than I'm sure anyone on here had seen before. I do share some of your concerns so it will be interesting to see if Gough seeks recourse through the courts.

[CropleyWasGod]

Cottaging can be prosecuted under public decency laws.

George Michael got arrested a few years ago for, IIRC, exposing himself in a public toilet.

...in the States, though.

[jacomo]

It was a very strong piece & contained much more detail than I'm sure anyone on here had seen before. I do share some of your concerns so it will be interesting to see if Gough seeks recourse through the courts.

It was, on the face of it, a scandalous piece of character assassination.

JJ appears to be trying to tie Richard Gough's name to the football sexual abuse scandal. Unless he has evidence, I think it is disgusting behaviour tbh.

[jacomo]

...in the States, though.

Oh fair enough!

I'm sure there are similar laws here though.

[Ozyhibby]

All this stuff about Gough is a complete distraction and in no way harms Sevco. Waste of time.


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[Moulin Yarns]

Oh fair enough!

I'm sure there are similar laws here though.

I think the law was changed and it needed to be more than 'just' soliciting. The age was also reduced to 16

[CropleyWasGod]

I think the law was changed and it needed to be more than 'just' soliciting. The age was also reduced to 16
The law on kerb crawling was introduced around 2007, to bring it into line with England.

(This despite the recommendations of an expert working group who advised against it, on the grounds that it actually jeopardises sex-worker safety.....but that's probably for another debate.)

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[magpie1892]

All this stuff about Gough is a complete distraction and in no way harms Sevco. Waste of time.




It may not harm sevco, but it does disabuse the club and their lovely fans of the notion that 'it's everyone else, but there's nothing to see here', which is complete bollocks.

[CropleyWasGod]

All this stuff about Gough is a complete distraction and in no way harms Sevco. Waste of time.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

If they can be held to account for past misdemeanours, just as we and other clubs may be, then it surely can hurt them, no?

After all, they're the same club, no? :stirrer::stirrer::stirrer:

[greenginger]

http://www.itv.com/news/update/2016-12-20/burnley-re-sign-midfielder-barton-on-short-term-deal/


Barton back to Burnley for rest of season.

I heard from a pretty good source that Barton got £ 495,000 to walk away.

Shame, I would have hoped it would have been a lot more.

[jacomo]

It may not harm sevco, but it does disabuse the club and their lovely fans of the notion that 'it's everyone else, but there's nothing to see here', which is complete bollocks.

No it does not!

This has nothing to do with the scandal of abuse in football - unless you have evidence to the contrary, in which case you really should share it.

[magpie1892]

No it does not!

This has nothing to do with the scandal of abuse in football - unless you have evidence to the contrary, in which case you really should share it.

I have shared it with several members of this board in PMs. It's quite disgusting.

I'm mindful, though, of the request in another thread not to name the player involved (the abuser, not the abused, who was a 15-year-old RFC trainee) on this board, a request that I said I was happy to agree to, and have no intention of reneging on.

Even though JJ is an absolute throbber, I have to concede that he's bang on the money here and this was 20+ years ago, long before his language-mangling blog was thought of.

I respect the fact that you think it's 'nothing to do with the scandal of abuse in football' without evidence to the contrary, however. This particular story has been common knowledge on SMSM sports desks for nearly a quarter of a century so I doubt it's going to come out now but unless JJ actually finds himself in court for libel, I'll consider that instructive about a story I already know to be true.

Reminds me a little of when Beckham and his fragrant wife announced via a Press Release that they were going to sue the News of the World for their splash that Beckham had had an affair with Rebecca Loos. They never did, because the story was true.

[jacomo]

I have shared it with several members of this board in PMs. It's quite disgusting.

I'm mindful, though, of the request in another thread not to name the player involved (the abuser, not the abused, who was a 15-year-old RFC trainee) on this board, a request that I said I was happy to agree to, and have no intention of reneging on.

Even though JJ is an absolute throbber, I have to concede that he's bang on the money here and this was 20+ years ago, long before his language-mangling blog was thought of.

I respect the fact that you think it's 'nothing to do with the scandal of abuse in football' without evidence to the contrary, however. This particular story has been common knowledge on SMSM sports desks for nearly a quarter of a century so I doubt it's going to come out now but unless JJ actually finds himself in court for libel, I'll consider that instructive about a story I already know to be true.

Reminds me a little of when Beckham and his fragrant wife announced via a Press Release that they were going to sue the News of the World for their splash that Beckham had had an affair with Rebecca Loos. They never did, because the story was true.

Well fair enough and obviously you should not disclose names in this situation. I worded that poorly.

[Keith_M]

See post 35705


JJ stated that there was a belief that one of the boys was 15 at the time.....

https://johnjamessite.com/2016/12/10...you-were-here/ (https://johnjamessite.com/2016/12/10/wish-you-were-here/)


Cheers Brog


:aok:

[CyberSauzee]

Can you remember what the caution was for?

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Can't recall but the implication was that they were doing something that should be happening behind closed doors.

[snedzuk]

"Tortious interference" is the correct term, there's no mix up here.

No mix up here either - the errors are in the report (along with several others)

[brog]

No mix up here either - the errors are in the report (along with several others)

You need to elaborate re these errors.

[Moulin Yarns]

The gift that keeps on giving


http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-glasgow-west-38404056

[CropleyWasGod]

The gift that keeps on giving


http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-glasgow-west-38404056

Kinda glad that he has pled not guilty.

The case itself could be a series of popcorn moments.

[Ozyhibby]

Kinda glad that he has pled not guilty.

The case itself could be a series of popcorn moments.

Yes. I still don't think it will get to court though. One too many Knights of the realm will be exposed if it does.


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[CropleyWasGod]

Yes. I still don't think it will get to court though. One too many Knights of the realm will be exposed if it does.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

The plot in that respect is quite thick.

On one hand we have CW, represented by Sash Finlay........

...whose boss used to be......:greengrin

[Ozyhibby]

The plot in that respect is quite thick.

On one hand we have CW, represented by Sash Finlay........

...whose boss used to be......:greengrin

It would be rather fun I must say. [emoji23]


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[brog]

The plot in that respect is quite thick.

On one hand we have CW, represented by Sash Finlay........

...whose boss used to be......:greengrin

Has Findlay won any recent cases? He always seems to be counsel of choice for high-profile trials but invariably it seems his clients go down! Still "No Surrender" & all that Tom Kite. As you say, should be fun!

[Ozyhibby]

Has Findlay won any recent cases? He always seems to be counsel of choice for high-profile trials but invariably it seems his clients go down! Still "No Surrender" & all that Tom Kite. As you say, should be fun!

50% of the lawyers at any trial lose. I think he takes on the most difficult cases.


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[southsider]

50% of the lawyers at any trial lose. I think he takes on the most difficult cases.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
DF always seem to defend the ****bag murders and rapists who every man and his dog knows is guilty.

[Ozyhibby]

DF always seem to defend the ****bag murders and rapists who every man and his dog knows is guilty.

This will make a nice change for him then as Craig Whyte isn't even close to David Murray in the ****bag stakes. [emoji3]


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[Keith_M]

Will they also charge Murray for failing to perform 'due diligence' on Whyte's takeover?



:hmmm:

[CropleyWasGod]

Will they also charge Murray for failing to perform 'due diligence' on Whyte's takeover?



:hmmm:
It's not an offence, of course....but I do hope that DF presses the point if SDM is a witness in CW'S trial [emoji48]

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[northstandhibby]

http://www.vanguardbears.co.uk/article.php?i=138&a=cultural-genocide-in-scotland

This must be one of the most truly astonishing things I have ever read. A real conspiracy theory of epic proportions.

The Huns are claiming to be an 'indigenous' population being deliberately eradicated out of their cultural homeland.

Utterly preposterous.

:lolrangers:

[lord bunberry]

http://www.vanguardbears.co.uk/article.php?i=138&a=cultural-genocide-in-scotland

This must be one of the most truly astonishing things I have ever read. A real conspiracy theory of epic proportions.

The Huns are claiming to be an 'indigenous' population being deliberately eradicated out of their cultural homeland.

Utterly preposterous.

:lolrangers:
Wow, that is genuinely unbelievable. This deserves a thread of its own. Who are these people?

[O'Rourke3]

Oh dear.

[Mr White]

It's a fantastic piece of deflection and whataboutery. Being called zombies and huns by other fans is contributing to the cultural genocide of their fine upstanding traditions. And of course the Labour party, the SNP and the IRA are all in on it. Obviously.

I suppose if your "culture" is built on the idea of supremacy and superiority over other religious or cultural groups then progress and improved equality in society might very well feel like an attack on your beliefs. If you're an absolute moron that is.

[Ozyhibby]

http://www.vanguardbears.co.uk/article.php?i=138&a=cultural-genocide-in-scotland

This must be one of the most truly astonishing things I have ever read. A real conspiracy theory of epic proportions.

The Huns are claiming to be an 'indigenous' population being deliberately eradicated out of their cultural homeland.

Utterly preposterous.

:lolrangers:

Just them trying to get the Casino at Ibrox plans on the go again like the indigenous Americans.


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[Bostonhibby]

http://www.vanguardbears.co.uk/article.php?i=138&a=cultural-genocide-in-scotland

This must be one of the most truly astonishing things I have ever read. A real conspiracy theory of epic proportions.

The Huns are claiming to be an 'indigenous' population being deliberately eradicated out of their cultural homeland.

Utterly preposterous.

:lolrangers:

Wow, just wow.

I wonder if it would be okay to just substitute any of the people, religions etc that the the rangers fans sing about hating (or worse) for the huns in this article and for said groups to also regard themselves as indigenous populations being persecuted in their country of birth? but this time by the huns?

[660]

No one likes us. We don't care.

[northstandhibby]

It's a fantastic piece of deflection and whataboutery. Being called zombies and huns by other fans is contributing to the culture genocide of their fine upstanding traditions. And of course labour, the snp and the IRA are all in on it. Of course they are.

I suppose if your "culture" is built on the idea of supremacy and superiority over other religious or cultural groups then progress and improved equality in society might very well feel like an attack on your beliefs. If you're an absolute moron that is.

:top marks

Spot on.

No mention it was their tax avoidance schemes which put their club into liquidation. It wasn't us or the SNP who did that. It was Sir David Murray, I suppose he was part of the conspiracy to 'eradicate' the huns?

Talk about passing the buck, dearie me.

I've read some rubbish but this is up there with the flat earth society.

Glory Glory

[Cabbage East]

Not one bit.

That vanguard bears article is absolutely mental.

[marinello59]

http://www.vanguardbears.co.uk/article.php?i=138&a=cultural-genocide-in-scotland

This must be one of the most truly astonishing things I have ever read. A real conspiracy theory of epic proportions.

The Huns are claiming to be an 'indigenous' population being deliberately eradicated out of their cultural homeland.

Utterly preposterous.

:lolrangers:

****ers. Total ****ers.

[weecounty hibby]

What a bunch of self obsessed fannies who have an over inflated sense of self importance. If only they could be irradicated Scotland would be a better place

[Bostonhibby]

:top marks

Spot on.

No mention it was their tax avoidance schemes which put their club into liquidation. It wasn't us or the SNP who did that. It was Sir David Murray, I suppose he was part of the conspiracy to 'eradicate' the huns?

Talk about passing the buck, dearie me.

I've read some rubbish but this is up there with the flat earth society.

Glory Glory

Indeed, who exactly was it that made the decision not to pay the creditors / their debts but to deliberately liquidate the now defunct Glasgow Rangers instead? None of the above mentioned.

[high bee]

So the term Zombie is sectarian now!? Better destroy my copies of Shaun of the Dead and Buffy the Vampire Slayer before I get locked up.

Truly delusional article.

[Ozyhibby]

What a bunch of self obsessed fannies who have an over inflated sense of self importance. If only they could be irradicated Scotland would be a better place

I thought they were delusional till I read your post. [emoji23]


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[tamig]

It's a fantastic piece of deflection and whataboutery. Being called zombies and huns by other fans is contributing to the cultural genocide of their fine upstanding traditions. And of course the Labour party, the SNP and the IRA are all in on it. Obviously.

I suppose if your "culture" is built on the idea of supremacy and superiority over other religious or cultural groups then progress and improved equality in society might very well feel like an attack on your beliefs. If you're an absolute moron that is.

And don't forget the "compliant" media and the SNP polis. A truly outlandish piece of writing.

[fat freddy]

This mornings Johnjames blog dissected the vanguard bear post with his usual flourish, he followed up this evening with an exclusive on the whereabouts of The Lying King on glasgow derby day, apparently punting one of his South African companies for a big wedge of Rands which he has no intention of donating to ra peepuls cause

[Renfrew_Hibby]

I do think we are seeing a real shift in voting intensions, in the west of Scotland at least. The Tories will be picking up more and more votes from working class protestants (RFC fans) with each passing election. In the same way that UKIP will be hoovering up votes in the North of England and the rust belt voters in the US shifted to Trump and the Republican party.
How this all plays out I'm not sure but there are hardcore huns who would love a Northern Ireland situation over here where every aspect of life is split one way or the other.
At the moment Ruth Davidson is loving it and riding the waves but the Conservative party will shift from being the party of moderate, middle class suburban Scots to being the party of the bigoted dregs of our society, dole scroungers and total thickos.

[marinello59]

I do think we are seeing a real shift in voting in tensions, in the west of Scotland at least. The Tories will be picking up more and more votes from working class protestants (RFC fans) with each passing election. In the same way that UKIP will be hoovering up votes in the North of England and the rust belt voters in the US shifted to Trump and the Republican party.
How this all plays out I'm not sure but there are hardcore huns would love a Northern Ireland situation over here where every aspect of life is split one way or the other.
At the moment Ruth Davidson is loving it and riding the waves but the Conservative party will shift from being the party of moderate, middle class suburban Scots to being the party of bigoted dregs of our society, dole scroungers and total thickos.

Thank the many SNP supporters for deciding to dismiss everybody who disagrees with them as a Unionist or a Yoon. It was dangerous language to use and many of us said so during the referundum.

[silverhibee]

Wow, that is genuinely unbelievable. This deserves a thread of its own. Who are these people?

These people should be locked up, what a bunch of f***ing muppets.

[marinello59]

These people should be locked up, what a bunch of f***ing muppets.

They are bigoted thugs who the current Rangers board let get very close to the club. Dangerous people.

[Dashing Bob S]

I thought 'cultural genocide' would be destroying every piece of Italian renaissance art, like painting over the roof of the Sistine chapel. Happy to be corrected that it means laughing at a bunch of jakeys in badly fitted suits banging drums and singing songs about how they are some kind of victorious master race. All you people who ran onto the pitch thinking you were celebrating a cup win after an 114 drought, how do you feel knowing that you are perpetuating 'cultural genocide?'

[Bostonhibby]

I thought 'cultural genocide' would be destroying every piece of Italian renaissance art, like painting over the roof of the Sistine chapel. Happy to be corrected that it means laughing at a bunch of jakeys in badly fitted suits banging drums and singing songs about how they are some kind of victorious master race. All you people who ran onto the pitch thinking you were celebrating a cup win after an 114 drought, how do you feel knowing that you are perpetuating 'cultural genocide?'
If I'd known that would be the outcome I'd have insisted on Hibs winning the cup years earlier.

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[ancient hibee]

I do think we are seeing a real shift in voting intensions, in the west of Scotland at least. The Tories will be picking up more and more votes from working class protestants (RFC fans) with each passing election. In the same way that UKIP will be hoovering up votes in the North of England and the rust belt voters in the US shifted to Trump and the Republican party.
How this all plays out I'm not sure but there are hardcore huns who would love a Northern Ireland situation over here where every aspect of life is split one way or the other.
At the moment Ruth Davidson is loving it and riding the waves but the Conservative party will shift from being the party of moderate, middle class suburban Scots to being the party of the bigoted dregs of our society, dole scroungers and total thickos.
The Tory party has never been what you say and won't become what you say.

[Ronniekirk]

This mornings Johnjames blog dissected the vanguard bear post with his usual flourish, he followed up this evening with an exclusive on the whereabouts of The Lying King on glasgow derby day, apparently punting one of his South African companies for a big wedge of Rands which he has no intention of donating to ra peepuls cause

He is now playing a longer game plan He will be happy to finish in top four and if they get second all the better as thats the best they could of hoped for
Hoqever i would expect more investment in players in the Summer But i think he knows he isnt catching up with Celtic for another few years which probably gives him time to attract new investors and leave his own cash to his family who have probably put him right and told him not to waste it in The Rangers

[Wee Effen Bee]

I thought 'cultural genocide' would be destroying every piece of Italian renaissance art, like painting over the roof of the Sistine chapel. Happy to be corrected that it means laughing at a bunch of jakeys in badly fitted suits banging drums and singing songs about how they are some kind of victorious master race. All you people who ran onto the pitch thinking you were celebrating a cup win after an 114 drought, how do you feel knowing that you are perpetuating 'cultural genocide?'

Campaigners for real rights for the First Peoples of North and South America, Australasia, Pacific etc. must just be nuisance makers. It's the poor 'The Rangers' supporters (as long as they are ethnic white Protestants) who are hard done by. We should all be ashamed of how we have trashed an historic culture and civilisation.:crazy:

[Dashing Bob S]

Campaigners for real rights for the First Peoples of North and South America, Australasia, Pacific etc. must just be nuisance makers. It's the poor 'The Rangers' supporters (as long as they are ethnic white Protestants) who are hard done by. We should all be ashamed of how we have trashed an historic culture and civilisation.:crazy:

They may turn to alcohol and domestic abuse like other tribes ruined by exposure to western civilisation.

[Malthibby]

They may turn to alcohol and domestic abuse like other tribes ruined by exposure to western civilisation.

:hibees It's as if you can see the future by looking at the past. And the present. And tomorrow, which is the future.....
GG

[Ozyhibby]

http://www.footballcommune.com/load-old-bulls/


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[Wee Effen Bee]

They may turn to alcohol and domestic abuse like other tribes ruined by exposure to western civilisation.

Doubt that DBS, they appear to be too sophisticated. After reading that piece, I'd be disappointed with anything less than a treatise on the Aristotelian/Platonic dichotomy.:greengrin

[ballengeich]

They may turn to alcohol and domestic abuse like other tribes ruined by exposure to western civilisation.

Bob, You misunderstand. After a few generations western civilisation could turn huns away from alcohol and domestic abuse. They could confine themselves to alcohol like you and me.

Don't know what they'd do with the spare time.

[Moulin Yarns]

No one likes me. I don't care.

:agree: :greengrin

[Stonewall]

I do think we are seeing a real shift in voting intensions, in the west of Scotland at least. The Tories will be picking up more and more votes from working class protestants (RFC fans) with each passing election. In the same way that UKIP will be hoovering up votes in the North of England and the rust belt voters in the US shifted to Trump and the Republican party.
How this all plays out I'm not sure but there are hardcore huns who would love a Northern Ireland situation over here where every aspect of life is split one way or the other.
At the moment Ruth Davidson is loving it and riding the waves but the Conservative party will shift from being the party of moderate, middle class suburban Scots to being the party of the bigoted dregs of our society, dole scroungers and total thickos.

I really can't agree with you. Remember that within living memory, the Conservatives were able to secure a majority of votes in Scotland, so there must have been a broad based support. As a 'middle class suburban' Scot I know of very few who now vote Tory.

I think it more likely that there was always a residue of natural moderate Tory voters who were lost due a dislike of Thatcher or who simply saw no point in voting Conservative in a first past the post voting system. Perhaps they are returning to the fold, others may have voted tactically for the Tories as they were looking for the option most likely to hold the SNP to account by asking pertinent questions in parliament.

Especially in the west there was traditionally a strong working class (perhaps upper working class vote). This vote eroded over the years and was effectively killed off by Thatcher. Again, maybe some are going back to their roots.

I'm not sure that the bigoted dregs of our society as characterised by you would see it in their interests to vote Tory, rather than UKIP or SNP or more likely not at all.

[Keith_M]

http://www.vanguardbears.co.uk/article.php?i=138&a=cultural-genocide-in-scotland

This must be one of the most truly astonishing things I have ever read. A real conspiracy theory of epic proportions.

The Huns are claiming to be an 'indigenous' population being deliberately eradicated out of their cultural homeland.

Utterly preposterous.




:faf:

[JeMeSouviens]

I really can't agree with you. Remember that within living memory, the Conservatives were able to secure a majority of votes in Scotland, so there must have been a broad based support. As a 'middle class suburban' Scot I know of very few who now vote Tory.

I think it more likely that there was always a residue of natural moderate Tory voters who were lost due a dislike of Thatcher or who simply saw no point in voting Conservative in a first past the post voting system. Perhaps they are returning to the fold, others may have voted tactically for the Tories as they were looking for the option most likely to hold the SNP to account by asking pertinent questions in parliament.

Especially in the west there was traditionally a strong working class (perhaps upper working class vote). This vote eroded over the years and was effectively killed off by Thatcher. Again, maybe some are going back to their roots.

I'm not sure that the bigoted dregs of our society as characterised by you would see it in their interests to vote Tory, rather than UKIP or SNP or more likely not at all.

Actually that was the Scottish Unionist Party, which took the Conservative whip in parliament. It later merged with the rUK Tories and has been losing votes ever since. The Union referred to in its title was that between Ireland and GB rather than Scotland and England and a significant part of its appeal was to the protestant working class. "Playing the Orange card" as it were.

The current Scottish Tory leadership seem to be flirting with this idea again, see tweets from Adam Tomkins and Murdo Fraser referencing "watp" and "the Queen's XI".

[Keith_M]

Ah, politics and religion, dontcha just love those two subjects for an argument?


:wink:

[Ozyhibby]

Actually that was the Scottish Unionist Party, which took the Conservative whip in parliament. It later merged with the rUK Tories and has been losing votes ever since. The Union referred to in its title was that between Ireland and GB rather than Scotland and England and a significant part of its appeal was to the protestant working class. "Playing the Orange card" as it were.

The current Scottish Tory leadership seem to be flirting with this idea again, see tweets from Adam Tomkins and Murdo Fraser referencing "watp" and "the Queen's XI".

If they are then it's not a good strategy. The number of people identifying themselves with any religion is plummeting.
The Tories are identifying themselves with the union between Scotland and England because that's where their voters are and also where half the population is.
It knows Labour and the lib dems are uncomfortable on this ground so it sees an opportunity. So far it has been successful. It's managing to do this without having any policy positions at all except oppose the SNP and independence. Ruth Davidson is an empty head. When was the last time you saw her put forward an idea or policy proposal. She merely mimics policy from London and is chameleon like when it changes. Her main contribution is a reasonable wit and a willingness to do jolly fat lady photo shoots.
Murdo Fraser is a dick.


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[Bostonhibby]

Ah, politics and religion, dontcha just love those two subjects for an argument?


:wink:
agree. I thought the thread had taken a much more sensible turn recently when we were debating the apparent discovery of a previously unheard of and ludicrously unlikely new indigenous people being discovered in a skip somewhere between Belfast and govan?

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[northstandhibby]

Actually that was the Scottish Unionist Party, which took the Conservative whip in parliament. It later merged with the rUK Tories and has been losing votes ever since. The Union referred to in its title was that between Ireland and GB rather than Scotland and England and a significant part of its appeal was to the protestant working class. "Playing the Orange card" as it were.

The current Scottish Tory leadership seem to be flirting with this idea again, see tweets from Adam Tomkins and Murdo Fraser referencing "watp" and "the Queen's XI".

It's this kind of horrible attitude from politicians and in fact across the wider spectrum of those in positions of Authority is why the Huns are allowed to actively en masse sing vile sectarian hatred with nothing done about it.

Only in Scotland!!!

Mon the Cabbage

[Keith_M]

agree. I thought the thread had taken a much more sensible turn recently when we were debating the apparent discovery of a previously unheard of and ludicrously unlikely new indigenous people being discovered in a skip somewhere between Belfast and govan?



The Wee Arra' Peepul?


:greengrin


http://www.wowremedies.com/wp-content/uploads/2015/08/small-arrow-tattoos.png

[Dashing Bob S]

Typical dumb Huns. Complain about being dehumanised while constantly referring to yourselves as 'Bears'.

[JeMeSouviens]

If they are then it's not a good strategy. The number of people identifying themselves with any religion is plummeting.
The Tories are identifying themselves with the union between Scotland and England because that's where their voters are and also where half the population is.
It knows Labour and the lib dems are uncomfortable on this ground so it sees an opportunity. So far it has been successful. It's managing to do this without having any policy positions at all except oppose the SNP and independence. Ruth Davidson is an empty head. When was the last time you saw her put forward an idea or policy proposal. She merely mimics policy from London and is chameleon like when it changes. Her main contribution is a reasonable wit and a willingness to do jolly fat lady photo shoots.
Murdo Fraser is a dick.


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True, but successful political parties are all about building (internal) coalitions. If the Tories can keep the Morningside blue rinsers on board while simultaneously attracting what's left of the Brigton Loyal then in pure vote building terms it's a viable strategy. They were so far out of things that being the champions of a bygone (and Protestant) Britain has thrown them a bit of a lifeline, albeit a (hopefully) terminally declining one in demographic terms.

Agree re RD and MF. :agree:

[BH Hibs]

Thank the many SNP supporters for deciding to dismiss everybody who disagrees with them as a Unionist or a Yoon. It was dangerous language to use and many of us said so during the referundum.

Really?

[Mr White]

agree. I thought the thread had taken a much more sensible turn recently when we were debating the apparent discovery of a previously unheard of and ludicrously unlikely new indigenous people being discovered in a skip somewhere between Belfast and govan?

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Oy that's no way to talk about Stenaline's Superfast Irish Sea ferry! Yes it's quite rusty and it's often full of rubbish but normal people sometimes use the service too you know :greengrin

[jgl07]

True, but successful political parties are all about building (internal) coalitions. If the Tories can keep the Morningside blue rinsers on board while simultaneously attracting what's left of the Brigton Loyal then in pure vote building terms it's a viable strategy. They were so far out of things that being the champions of a bygone (and Protestant) Britain has thrown them a bit of a lifeline, albeit a (hopefully) terminally declining one in demographic terms.

The Morningside ladies have virtually died off.

I accidentally wondered into a Malcolm Rifkind election meeting at the Braids in 1992 (I was looking for another meeting in the same venue) and the meeting was full of old ladies, most of whom looked over 90. They have been replaced by younger professional families working for the NHS and the Universities.

Any Conservative recovery is down to unwinding of tactical votes that were cast by Tory supporters for the SNP or Lib Dems to keep Labour out. They feel that they can sefely vote Tory now since Labour collapsed.

There may be some anti-SNP tactical voting emerging that certainly helped Ruth Davidson in Edinburgh Central (and also helped Labour in South and the Lib Dems in West).

[Leithwalk]

Might be worth recalling that the Scottish Tories got 22% in the 2016 Holyrood elections (constituency vote). In the 2015 general election they got 14.9%. In Thatcher's last general election - 1987 - they got 24%. A bit more resurging to do while Labour's vote collapses to the SNP. The Tories are bouncing back a bit, but Maggie still did better than Ruth

[Keith_M]

I thought this thread was supposed to be about The Rangers?


:I'm waiti

[Bostonhibby]

I thought this thread was supposed to be about The Rangers?


:I'm waiti
Problem is that you're seemingly victimizing an indigenous group now so probably better to launch an attack on the Tories instead- A proper disappearing minority group in Scotland, the blue rinsed species anyway.

Save the blue rinsed Tories.

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[Moulin Yarns]

I thought this thread was supposed to be about The Rangers?


:I'm waiti

Murdo Fraser (one of my representatives at Holyrood) is also "one of the people" as evidenced in several tweets.

[Liberal Hibby]

Typical dumb Huns. Complain about being dehumanised while constantly referring to yourselves as 'Bears'.

Top, top response. :top marks

[jacomo]

http://www.vanguardbears.co.uk/article.php?i=138&a=cultural-genocide-in-scotland

This must be one of the most truly astonishing things I have ever read. A real conspiracy theory of epic proportions.

The Huns are claiming to be an 'indigenous' population being deliberately eradicated out of their cultural homeland.

Utterly preposterous.

:lolrangers:

Bear? Pathetic wee lamb, more like.

Written by a socially dysfunctional teenager, surely?

[johnbc70]

Murdo Fraser (one of my representatives at Holyrood) is also "one of the people" as evidenced in several tweets.

He was the MSP who called for HMRC to basically write off the Old Rangers debt so they would not be liquidated.

It made me so mad at the time that I wrote to Ruth Davidson about his conduct as an elected official and encouraging the write off of millions of pounds of money owing to taxpayers!

[Bostonhibby]

He was the MSP who called for HMRC to basically write off the Old Rangers debt so they would not be liquidated.

It made me so mad at the time that I wrote to Ruth Davidson about his conduct as an elected official and encouraging the write off of millions of pounds of money owing to taxpayers!
[emoji106] Pay attention people. You get what you vote for or sometimes what you don't vote against.

Here's a walloper worth jettisoning?

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[JeMeSouviens]

New club in Bradford, load of bull in Glasgow. :wink:

https://www.theguardian.com/sport/2017/jan/09/bradford-bulls-new-club-rfl-bids

[ehf]

According to the Scotsman, Sevco are hoping to sign Saido Berahino from West Brom for £500k.

:faf:

[Ozyhibby]

I see Walter is in the papers this morning saying Sevco should borrow and spend in order to compete with Celtic.

Sevco turnover is expected to be about £20m this year while Celtic's is expected to be around £65m. And that's before Celtic sell Dembele.
That's a lot of borrowing Walter.
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[Callum_62]

Stoke make a bid in the region of £20 million for Berahino

Real money

:greengrin

[greenginger]

I see Walter is in the papers this morning saying Sevco should borrow and spend in order to compete with Celtic.

Sevco turnover is expected to be about £20m this year while Celtic's is expected to be around £65m. And that's before Celtic sell Dembele.
That's a lot of borrowing Walter.
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And does Walter ( Mitty ) suggest where the money might be borrowed from and a method of repayment.

[Smartie]

I see Walter is in the papers this morning saying Sevco should borrow and spend in order to compete with Celtic.

Sevco turnover is expected to be about £20m this year while Celtic's is expected to be around £65m. And that's before Celtic sell Dembele.
That's a lot of borrowing Walter.
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Would Walter lend them money?

There is a problem with his plan.

[Bostonhibby]

Stoke make a bid in the region of £20 million for Berahino

Real money

:greengrin
Aye but maybe fast track entry into the lodge of his choice and the chance to play for a club with the rangers "traditions" will be more important to the player.

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[Ozyhibby]

And does Walter ( Mitty ) suggest where the money might be borrowed from and a method of repayment.

What's this repayment thing you speak of?


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[BH Hibs]

According to the Scotsman, Sevco are hoping to sign Saido Berahino from West Brom for £500k.

:faf:

Thats been lifted straight from a facebook routers page. A guy I know showed me that in the pub on Sunday, nearly spat my pint out.

[JeMeSouviens]

Walter Smith's interview (it's in the Sun, so I've cut'n'pasted it over from Kerrydale St).

Feel the desperation ... :wink:


WARNING Walter Smith says Dave King needs to gamble by putting Rangers into debt or they WON’T stop Celtic winning 10 in a row
The Ibrox legend insists the gap between the Old Firm clubs is much bigger than it was during his nine in a row reign


BY ROBERT COLLINS

WALTER SMITH reckons Dave King must risk putting Rangers into debt or they WON’T stop Celtic winning 10 in a row.

The Ibrox legend insists the gap between the Old Firm clubs is much bigger than it was during his nine in a row reign and has called on the Gers chairman to splash the cash.

Former Light Blues boss Smith wants to see Mark Warburton handed a war chest to allow the Govan club to compete with Brendan Rodgers’ side.

He told Record Sport: ”For Rangers to get access to Champions League money they may have to take a gamble and risk going into debt.

“Even allowing for Celtic’s circumstances in the early 90’s they still had some good players. They still had a decent enough team.

“I think the gap is bigger now than it was in those early stages. And some of the other Scottish teams – Hearts, Aberdeen and Dundee United – were far better then than they are at the moment.

“You can print this, it is an easy headline to say Celtic will go on to win ten in a row. But it is difficult to keep that level of success in any football club, so who can say?

“All you can say from a Rangers perspective, is everyone involved with the club knows what they have to do to get there. Everybody can make all the noises they want about being sensible but it boils down to being prepared to take that gamble.

“Celtic have done that and their successes are outweighing their failures.

“The problem at Rangers is, you’ve got to do it. It’s the same if you’re a manager or a board member, you’ve got to find a way to win.

“A couple of the people who are there at the moment have been involved in the board at Rangers previously so they should know what it takes to make Rangers successful. So that’s what they have to aim for and I’m sure they are doing that.”

Smith praised the Rangers support for sticking by their side during the time in the lower leagues.

He insists they deserve a winning team but is concerned that if Celtic continue to dominate supporters will be driven away.

The former Scotland boss said: “You don’t get a lot of time. The thing that bothers me is, with not having a lot of time, the longer it goes on is the biggest aspect becomes the deterioration of the support.

“The Rangers support has been nothing short of phenomenal over the period of them being in the lower leagues.

“But now that they are back and their biggest rivals are in such a strong position, it’s hard for everybody at Rangers to take. But the manager needs to find a way to win and the board have to find a way of getting Rangers back into that position.

“It’s not going to be easy. I don’t envy any of them the task at the present moment.

”Historically, Rangers are a winning team. The support expects it. If you are the manager then you have to find a way of getting there.

“The board will know they need a level of investment in the team. Print this please, it’s not a criticism. I know the problems they have, everybody knows the problems.

“But I keep hearing all the time that Rangers problems were because of debt. The strange thing is Rangers didn’t have any debt when the problems started.

“They need investment in the team just now. It doesn’t matter what anyone says and the board has to find a way of doing that.

“They have shown they have enough to finish second in the league this season. Whether they do or not is another thing.

“But will the Rangers support accept another year like that?”

[Bostonhibby]

Walter Smith's interview (it's in the Sun, so I've cut'n'pasted it over from Kerrydale St).

Feel the desperation ... :wink:

Interesting to see the like of Walter resurfacing, they didn't half disappear quickly from the board when it became apparent that the flush wasn't working and the smelly stuff was about to hit the fan.

[BH Hibs]

It's just no fair boo hoo hoo. :lolrangers:

[Ozyhibby]

I wonder if 'find a way' means set up an illegal tax evasion scheme and mislead the SFA on the level of player remuneration?


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[southsider]

Interesting to see the like of Walter resurfacing, they didn't half disappear quickly from the board when it became apparent that the flush wasn't working and the smelly stuff was about to hit the fan.
Overspend ? Borrow money ? Isn't that not how they were liquidated in the first place. What a stupid man. I hope they overspend and go bust again but nobody in their right mind will lend them money.

[Haymaker]

Basically called the Orc hordes what they are: Glory hunters!

[Kato]

It's just no fair boo hoo hoo. :lolrangers:

Snowflake Huns

[Onion]

Overspend ? Borrow money ? Isn't that not how they were liquidated in the first place. What a stupid man. I hope they overspend and go bust again but nobody in their right mind will lend them money.

Don't know where to start with that interview and WS comments. As you say, what an incredibly stupid, arrogant and deluded man who would quite happily rip off the tax man, businesses and other clubs in his effort to stop Celtic from winning a few league titles. As a manager, always had a bit of time for Smith. But as a man and Rangers fan, he's an idiot who should not be allowed near a microphone or a journalist.

[Sprouleflyer]

“All you can say from a Rangers perspective, is everyone involved with the club knows what they have to do to get there. Everybody can make all the noises they want about being sensible but it boils down to being prepared to take that gamble.

What if the gamble fails Watty, what then?

How does this old relic of Scottish football get so much column inches, especially when he benefitted from buying players using money that was borrowed on the never never.

Seems like the old Sevconians want to go back to the good old days by using methods from the bad old ways.

[hibs0666]

“All you can say from a Rangers perspective, is everyone involved with the club knows what they have to do to get there. Everybody can make all the noises they want about being sensible but it boils down to being prepared to take that gamble.

What if the gamble fails Watty, what then?

How does this old relic of Scottish football get so much column inches, especially when he benefitted from buying players using money that was borrowed on the never never.

Seems like the old Sevconians want to go back to the good old days by using methods from the bad old ways.

No problem. If the club wants to speculate then that should be funded by shareholders and supporters. I'm sure that Dodgy Dave is just itching to open up the wallet.

[Smartie]

It would be great for The Rangers' rivals if they went back to borrowing wildly as it can only end badly.

The best thing they can do is shut up and get on with re-building, improving year on year and pressing home the financial advantage they already have over most clubs in Scotland, then challenging Celtic when they're ready.

[northstandhibby]

Aye but maybe fast track entry into the lodge of his choice and the chance to play for a club with the rangers "traditions" will be more important to the player.

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This is how their hun twisted minds work.

Smith is a bitter hun filled with hun arrogance. In his mind the huns should be lording it over the rest of us and falling at their feet.

He clearly misses the tax dodging years with Murray pulling the strings and money was like confetti to them which bought them their ill gotten trophies.

Smith your old club died. You and Murray made it die. Get it over it you pathetic twisted swine.

Glory Glory

[Bostonhibby]

This is how their hun twisted minds work.

Smith is a bitter hun filled with hun arrogance. In his mind the huns should be lording it over the rest of us and falling at their feet.

He clearly misses the tax dodging years with Murray pulling the strings and money was like confetti to them which bought them their ill gotten trophies.

Smith your old club died. You and Murray made it die. Get it over it you pathetic twisted swine.

Glory Glory
You have a problem with Scottish football's elder statesman I take it?

[emoji6]

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[Deansy]

Walter Smith's interview (it's in the Sun, so I've cut'n'pasted it over from Kerrydale St).

Feel the desperation ... :wink:

I don't understand - during Waldo's time (and all the others involved during Murray's term) we were consistently told -

'As soon as the player heard it was Rangers, money wasn't really a factor - the chance for playing for one of the world's biggest clubs was all the incentive needed'

It was either that or it was -

'He supported Rangers as a boy'

Baffling :confused:

[Bostonhibby]

I don't understand - during Waldo's time (and all the others involved during Murray's term) we were consistently told -

'As soon as the player heard it was Rangers, money wasn't really a factor - the chance for playing for one of the world's biggest clubs was all the incentive needed'

It was either that or it was -

'He supported Rangers as a boy'

Baffling :confused:
Is this how they got senderos Barton krancjaer tavernier and Tiernan?

Long may they continue to be misty eyed and misguided about that era.

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[Ozyhibby]

It would be great for The Rangers' rivals if they went back to borrowing wildly as it can only end badly.

The best thing they can do is shut up and get on with re-building, improving year on year and pressing home the financial advantage they already have over most clubs in Scotland, then challenging Celtic when they're ready.

Their overheads are such that at their current turnover, without borrowing they would not have much of an advantage over Aberdeen, Hearts or Hibs.


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[Bostonhibby]

Their overheads are such that at their current turnover, without borrowing they would not have much of an advantage over Aberdeen, Hearts or Hibs.


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And that's before dodgy Dave claws back his previous losses!

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[ballengeich]

Stoke make a bid in the region of £20 million for Berahino

Real money

:greengrin

The Rangers' £500,000 for him wasn't a transfer fee. It would be a development fee which is much lower for a cross-border move than for a switch of club within England. The idea was that they sign him on a pre-contract and pay a development fee when he joins at the end of this season In January 2018 they'd transfer him on to an English club for a pre-arranged fee (say £10 million to Stoke). The Rangers make a profit and the English club gets him cheaper while West Brom lose out.

A cunning plan, relying mainly on Berahino being a spiteful wee toerag more motivated by getting it right up West Brom than by developing his own career.

The plan's a larger scale version of what they did to Accrington Stanley over Crooks and Windass where the expected profit hasn't materialised yet.

[silverhibee]

Grandpa Walt is just a bitter Hun, he is fuming when giving this interview but has wry wee smile when he talks about a team being relegated.

Is the last bit about teams suffering and getting relegated a wee dig at Hibs and Mr Petrie.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/36025815

[ballengeich]

Interesting to see the like of Walter resurfacing, they didn't half disappear quickly from the board when it became apparent that the flush wasn't working and the smelly stuff was about to hit the fan.

It follows a Keith Jackson article in yesterday's Record urging King to make money available. I suspect there's some conflict in the Ibrox boardroom and someone's leaking stories - what a shame.

[jacomo]

No problem. If the club wants to speculate then that should be funded by shareholders and supporters. I'm sure that Dodgy Dave is just itching to open up the wallet.

The promised over investment!

£30m wasn't it? What could possibly be stopping King from sticking to his word?

[jacomo]

It follows a Keith Jackson article in yesterday's Record urging King to make money available. I suspect there's some conflict in the Ibrox boardroom and someone's leaking stories - what a shame.

Just for fun, here's some of Dave Kings statement in Feb 2014, printed in full in the DR. He committed himself to spending £30-50m at that time:


Statement by Dave King on Rangers FC

Because of my ongoing interest in the future direction of the club I have deliberately avoided immersing myself in the day-to-day “noise level” that is being played out in the media. By doing this I had hoped to serve as a bridge between non-aligned stakeholders and the club, as well as seeking a way forward that could accommodate all interests. I no longer believe that I can achieve this with the board that is presently in place. I consequently wish to update the fans on my current position.


Late last year I travelled to Scotland in an attempt to find a way forward that would accommodate all parties and ensure sound corporate governance and sound financial planning for the club. Unfortunately, my efforts were in vain. During this period I made it clear to the board that I am a potential source of funding by way of a new capital injection. My prime condition is that any funds introduced by me would go into the club for the benefit of the team and the dilapidating infrastructure.

For the avoidance of doubt, I appreciate that the Rangers board has no obligation to engage with me or to agree with my vision for the future of Rangers. My assessment is that the business is not commercially sustainable in the short term and hence requires a level of soft investment. The board is focusing on right-sizing the business ie. cutting costs to match the income. It is correct that any club must, over the long term, operate within its means but in the short term Rangers needs a significant once-off financial boost that cannot be met from the current revenue stream. Without this we will not get back to where we should be. If we cut our costs to suit our present income we will remain a small club and Celtic will shoot through 10 in a row - and beyond - while we slug it out for the minor places. That is not the Rangers that I grew up with and not the Rangers that we should be passing down to our children and grandchildren.

It goes on like this, and then he advises supporters not to give their ST money to Sevco directly but pay it into a trust.

[Oscar T Grouch]

Grandpa Walt is just a bitter Hun, he is fuming when giving this interview but has wry wee smile when he talks about a team being relegated.

Is the last bit about teams suffering and getting relegated a wee dig at Hibs and Mr Petrie.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/36025815

Aw bodies fault but theirs. The only bitterness the Huns should feel is against the idiots that ran their club into the ground while screwing tax payers and small businesses. But aye it looks like a badly veiled dig at Hibs.

[Bostonhibby]

The Rangers' £500,000 for him wasn't a transfer fee. It would be a development fee which is much lower for a cross-border move than for a switch of club within England. The idea was that they sign him on a pre-contract and pay a development fee when he joins at the end of this season In January 2018 they'd transfer him on to an English club for a pre-arranged fee (say £10 million to Stoke). The Rangers make a profit and the English club gets him cheaper while West Brom lose out.

A cunning plan, relying mainly on Berahino being a spiteful wee toerag more motivated by getting it right up West Brom than by developing his own career.

The plan's a larger scale version of what they did to Accrington Stanley over Crooks and Windass where the expected profit hasn't materialised yet.
So, the rangers class then

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[southsider]

Aw bodies fault but theirs. The only bitterness the Huns should feel is against the idiots that ran their club into the ground while screwing tax payers and small businesses. But aye it looks like a badly veiled dig at Hibs.
Who cares as we won the Scottish Cup whilst they were liquidated and had to start again. What part of that does Smith not understand ? If I had my way they would not have been allowed back in the league until ALL debts were repaid.

[Bostonhibby]

It follows a Keith Jackson article in yesterday's Record urging King to make money available. I suspect there's some conflict in the Ibrox boardroom and someone's leaking stories - what a shame.
Even my goldfish is now accepting there's no dodgy Dave warchest or even spare change coming in and the fish used to be convinced Craig whyte and cheeky Charlie Green were the answer because the daily record said they had untold riches.

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[southsider]

Even my goldfish is now accepting there's no dodgy Dave warchest or even spare change coming in and the fish used to be convinced Craig whyte and cheeky Charlie Green were the answer because the daily record said they had untold riches.

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Wow a goldfish that can read. Can he/she tell me the lotto numbers for Saturday ? Promise to buy Leigh.

[Bostonhibby]

Wow a goldfish that can read. Can he/she tell me the lotto numbers for Saturday ? Promise to buy Leigh.
Sorry but the fish has just taken up an editorial job with the Evening news so you will appreciate it can't possibly do anything that might be construed as helpful to a hibby.

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[Ozyhibby]

I think what is happening is that they are realising that they will never rival Celtic again. The gap is too big and its structural.
Even once the retail deal ends in 6 years they won't even be close to matching Celtics income. And if there are to be 6 mores years of Celtic winning everything in sight then crowds at Ibrox will be back down to 80's levels.
They needs a massive investment of free cash over a sustained period of time to try and bridge the gap. I just don't see where it's coming from.


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[Oscar T Grouch]

One thing watty got right in that article is the orc hoards won't have the patience to hang around under celtc for years to come, their STs will fall away as celtc get closer to 10 in a row. I have vague memories of the 80s before Souness came in when their crowds were pitiful. No investor with half a brain will put money into the Huns as they'll have no chance of getting a return. They have no credit facilities as such so unless King or Watty himself are willing to chuck millions into them I can't see money being spent in any great amount.

[jacomo]

I think what is happening is that they are realising that they will never rival Celtic again. The gap is too big and its structural.
Even once the retail deal ends in 6 years they won't even be close to matching Celtics income. And if there are to be 6 mores years of Celtic winning everything in sight then crowds at Ibrox will be back down to 80's levels.
They needs a massive investment of free cash over a sustained period of time to try and bridge the gap. I just don't see where it's coming from.


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'Ever' is a big word. Who knows what might happen in the future?

Undoubtedly though, their sense of entitlement and expectation is coming up against the harsh reality of a more constrained short to medium term future.

What responsible custodians of a football club would do is run the club prudently and try to maximise performance in every area.

Oh, and perhaps even acknowledge past mistakes and act with some humility.

Fat chance!

[northstandhibby]

It follows a Keith Jackson article in yesterday's Record urging King to make money available. I suspect there's some conflict in the Ibrox boardroom and someone's leaking stories - what a shame.

This is all about the panic the hun orcs will turn on their board which promised them a £30 milllion 'war chest' which didn't materialise. Now the hun orcs have realised they have absolutely no chance of catching up with Celtic for years the way it stands there is a realisation by the hun board and its friends such as Walter Pish and it media followers the Daily Rangers that they must give the hun orcs some hope in the way of statements such as the one by Walter Pish that they must borrow a shed load of money to catch up. It gives the impression of there are things could be done and maybe if we do this kind of rhetoric.

They're in give the dog a bone territory.

Glory Glory

[Deansy]

One thing watty got right in that article is the orc hoards won't have the patience to hang around under celtc for years to come, their STs will fall away as celtc get closer to 10 in a row. I have vague memories of the 80s before Souness came in when their crowds were pitiful. No investor with half a brain will put money into the Huns as they'll have no chance of getting a return. They have no credit facilities as such so unless King or Watty himself are willing to chuck millions into them I can't see money being spent in any great amount.

Exactly bang-on !! Waldo and all the rest of his ilk (Sxum) KNOW that no success = massive drop in attendances of the 'Loyal' !. The one and only time they've been successful was achieved by cheating on a massive scale - the 'unfortunate' thing for Waldo and his ilk (Sxum) is that 90% of their support either don't realise that or they've chosen to ignore it ! Their panic is heart-warming !

And as for THIS statement -

'So, there will be that bitterness. How can they forget what happened to them there? You can't forget that.'

Spot-on Waldo - NO-ONE in Scottish Football will EVER forget what THEY did to us and our game and our country - and neither will we ever forget the crimes committed by the GFA for NOT wiping them off the face of this earth thus permitting them to continue to be a blight on our game and Scottish Society in general !

[Ozyhibby]

'Ever' is a big word. Who knows what might happen in the future?

Undoubtedly though, their sense of entitlement and expectation is coming up against the harsh reality of a more constrained short to medium term future.

What responsible custodians of a football club would do is run the club prudently and try to maximise performance in every area.

Oh, and perhaps even acknowledge past mistakes and act with some humility.

Fat chance!

True, 'ever' maybe is a bit strong but I give them about the same chance as Espanyol have of overhauling Barca as Catalonia's top team.


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[Pedantic_Hibee]

Unfortunately, there was no decent journalist there to ask Walter a few pertinent questions.

[Keith_M]

Unfortunately, there was no decent journalist there to ask Walter a few pertinent questions.


Like, "when do you plan to pay back your 'loan', Walter?"

[Ozyhibby]

Unfortunately, there was no decent journalist there to ask Walter a few pertinent questions.

Like 'do you think you would have won a single trophy if Rangers had been balancing their books?'


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[Famous Fiver]

Two questions Walter -

'Could you describe Warburton's hat?'

'Did Halliday think he'd won the cup?'

[Ozyhibby]

http://thecelticblog.com/2017/01/blogs/sevco-fans-face-two-scenarios-in-one-is-life-in-our-shadow-in-the-other-their-club-is-dead/


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[JimBHibees]

Grandpa Walt is just a bitter Hun, he is fuming when giving this interview but has wry wee smile when he talks about a team being relegated.

Is the last bit about teams suffering and getting relegated a wee dig at Hibs and Mr Petrie.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/36025815

Smith is a kok. Only manager in the history of the game to be known by his first name by the succulent lamb media.

[weecounty hibby]

What a total ****er. Smith and Murray are at the heart of the Hun demise. Over spending with money they didn't have that eventually swirled them round the plug hole collecting debris like White, Green etc on their way down. And still 99% of Huns see them as heroes who can never be criticised and that includes the MSM as well. The "journalism" is pathetic, no difficult questions and is basically just like you would read in the rangers news.

[Is It On....]

I think what is happening is that they are realising that they will never rival Celtic again. The gap is too big and its structural.
Even once the retail deal ends in 6 years they won't even be close to matching Celtics income. And if there are to be 6 mores years of Celtic winning everything in sight then crowds at Ibrox will be back down to 80's levels.
They needs a massive investment of free cash over a sustained period of time to try and bridge the gap. I just don't see where it's coming from.


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Sevco hordes are going to be even more p#ssed of if Van Dijk goes to Chelsea for the rumoured £60m as Celtic have a 10% sell-on clause so stand to get a £6m bonus.

[Onion]

Sevco hordes are going to be even more p#ssed of if Van Dijk goes to Chelsea for the rumoured £60m as Celtic have a 10% sell-on clause so stand to get a £6m bonus.

:agree: big transfer fees from quality players and the CL money is the biggest thorn in Sevco's side. And it will irk Sevco that these revenue streams are achieved with little to no risk to investor capital. Celtic do not need to overstretch themselves to win the league and for CL slush money, and the gap is getting bigger.

Sevco need some mindless investors to risk huge amounts of capital to even fish in the same pools as Celtic, and/or some "creative financial engineering". No serious investor or bank is going to give good money to Sevco based on a business plan whose main objective is to "Stop Celtic winning 10 in a Row" :bye:.

[Ozyhibby]

:agree: big transfer fees from quality players and the CL money is the biggest thorn in Sevco's side. And it will irk Sevco that these revenue streams are achieved with little to no risk to investor capital. Celtic do not need to overstretch themselves to win the league and for CL slush money, and the gap is getting bigger.

Sevco need some mindless investors to risk huge amounts of capital to even fish in the same pools as Celtic, and/or some "creative financial engineering". No serious investor or bank is going to give good money to Sevco based on a business plan whose main objective is to "Stop Celtic winning 10 in a Row" :bye:.

Celtic also have 10k extra seats to sell which is worth an extra £3-4m a year.


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[lapsedhibee]

Don't understand why the the huns don't get Fergus McCann in to sort them out, just as he did at Celtc. They've never looked back.

[JimBHibees]

Only in Scotland would a manager who was hugely implicated in the ebt scandal be able to come out with this sort of revisionist tripe. Seems just like the club he supports and works for that he is untouchable.

[northstandhibby]

What a total ****er. Smith and Murray are at the heart of the Hun demise. Over spending with money they didn't have that eventually swirled them round the plug hole collecting debris like White, Green etc on their way down. And still 99% of Huns see them as heroes who can never be criticised and that includes the MSM as well. The "journalism" is pathetic, no difficult questions and is basically just like you would read in the rangers news.

Sums it up very nicely. There is no such thing as unbiased journalism when it comes to the huns. Walter Pish is allowed to say whatever pish he wants to which the vast majority of what he says is and is printed without question. A hun fanzine is what the Daily Record and similar others are.

Any journalist on the straight and narrow would have treated a lot of what he says as ridiculous and treated it with contempt by questioning him on the EBT's, the liquidation and tried to uncover exactly what he knew of the years of financial duplicity etcetera.

Unfortunately for us who believe in truth there is no desire for truth by the msm and it is full of huns who simply want the newco huns to be top of the pile by any means.

All the while looking the other way when the orcs belt out their sectarian hatred week after week and Police Scotland refuse to arrest a single orc for it when they belt them out in front of them.

Additionally they search for a 'richer' league system while quietly planning to leave their colts in the scottish league which will allow them to keep a sectarian presence in the SFA system.

Hope they do sometime soon disappear into their desired 'richer' league system and we refuse them access to leave behind a 'colt' team to retain a sectarian foothold in our league structure and for us it would be a win win situation. Not only would we have rid ourselves of the vile sectarian songbooks but rid ourselves of the most vile thuggish support in the country and we would have a greatly enhanced competitive league structure.

Glory Glory

[ACLeith]

First of all, a pedant alert .....

We are fast approaching the 5th anniversary of the start of this thread. There are now approx. 35.9K messages. Assuming each message takes on average 30 seconds to read (some are much longer, some are shorter of course), then it would take about 12.5 days to read it from start to finish, using 24 hours each day with no sleep!!

Like many others I have read every message since the thread started and occasionally contributed, so have we each wasted over a full week of our lives doing that? No chance, it has kept my spirits up when times were tough for the Hibees and although some were worried about (a) them getting off with it and then (b) them getting allowed back in to say the Championship, things did work out not too badly. Though total extinction or oblivion until they met the SFA rules re accounts etc would have been preferable.

And it hasn't ended yet, I'm sure there's more fun still to come with the GASL.

:flag:

PS If someone wants to do a sponsored thread read to raise money for a suitable charity then I will be happy to make a financial contribution :greengrin

[Bostonhibby]

First of all, a pedant alert .....

We are fast approaching the 5th anniversary of the start of this thread. There are now approx. 35.9K messages. Assuming each message takes on average 30 seconds to read (some are much longer, some are shorter of course), then it would take about 12.5 days to read it from start to finish, using 24 hours each day with no sleep!!

Like many others I have read every message since the thread started and occasionally contributed, so have we each wasted over a full week of our lives doing that? No chance, it has kept my spirits up when times were tough for the Hibees and although some were worried about (a) them getting off with it and then (b) them getting allowed back in to say the Championship, things did work out not too badly. Though total extinction or oblivion until they met the SFA rules re accounts etc would have been preferable.

And it hasn't ended yet, I'm sure there's more fun still to come with the GASL.

:flag:

PS If someone wants to do a sponsored thread read to raise money for a suitable charity then I will be happy to make a financial contribution :greengrin

:greengrin

You do realise that Johnny Hun is now going to start blaming the whole thing on pedants now that you have flagged this minority group up? I imagine Sally McCoist will be demanding a list of pedants names so they can be exposed for their anti - Hunnery.

Pedants? they're worse than those Kaffliks we keep hearing about.

[ACLeith]

:greengrin

You do realise that Johnny Hun is now going to start blaming the whole thing on pedants now that you have flagged this minority group up? I imagine Sally McCoist will be demanding a list of pedants names so they can be exposed for their anti - Hunnery.

Pedants? they're worse than those Kaffliks we keep hearing about.

But I'm a Proddie Pedant where do they fit in?

If the admins get an FOI request from Sally then please note I know a good lawyer and I'll find out where HE stays
😎😎😎😎