Generic Sevco / Rangers meltdown thread

[Ozyhibby]

https://audioboom.com/boos/3626056-tom-winnifrith-rangers-fc-special-is-there-any-chance-of-a-stockmarket-flotation/embed/v4?image_option=full&link_color=%2355ACEE&source=twitter_card&utm_campaign=detailpage&utm_content=card&utm_medium=social&utm_source=twitter

Worth a listen


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[hctroubador]

If it wasn't tenuous, HMRC wouldn't have been able to bring a claim in the first place. If you're going to play that far on the edge of the law, then you need deep pockets in case you have to defend yourself.

Which the Old Huns didn't have. Ha ha. :wink:

Not commenting on the Rangers case, but HMRC dines out on tenuous claims. Unlike a legal court with an HMRC charge there is no presumption of innocence. You are guilty until you prove otherwise. As most people have neither the means or sophistication to fight this over the long term HRMC coins it in tenuous claims.

[majorhibs]

My point was in relation to the BTC, the Tax Avoidance scheme. The wee Tax case isn't even up for debate. They owe on that.

I'm not interested in spin of any sort whether its the "we need Rangers" drivel from the compliant lackeys in the MSM and certainly not the tear stained, spittle fuelled, outbursts of utter futility from Phil, Clumpany & the various other Sellik minded simpletons.

I like my information untainted & factual which is why I enjoy CWG's posts on this thread.

Untainted & factual - while some are blindsided by "outbursts" from individuals they dinnae like, the big picture goin back a long time is that 2 & ONLY 2, teams in Scotland used devious means to gain advantage against ALL teams in Scotland, but the one that sticks wi me is all the savs & huns times getting above Hibs, but, whoever the individual & whatever their main leanings, the fact that said savs & huns beat my team, namely Hibernian FC, in leagues & cups, while ILLEGALLY doing so financially, (while my team suffered defeats but followed the law & guidelines) means that anyone, regardless wether I respect them from afore cos they were good, but if your sticking up for the the's or the savs sorry but thats not my cup of tea. They want their "history" but they don't want mention of how it's tainted? Sorry. It's tainted.

[ehf]

Untainted & factual - while some are blindsided by "outbursts" from individuals they dinnae like, the big picture goin back a long time is that 2 & ONLY 2, teams in Scotland used devious means to gain advantage against ALL teams in Scotland, but the one that sticks wi me is all the savs & huns times getting above Hibs, but, whoever the individual & whatever their main leanings, the fact that said savs & huns beat my team, namely Hibernian FC, in leagues & cups, while ILLEGALLY doing so financially, (while my team suffered defeats but followed the law & guidelines) means that anyone, regardless wether I respect them from afore cos they were good, but if your sticking up for the the's or the savs sorry but thats not my cup of tea. They want their "history" but they don't want mention of how it's tainted? Sorry. It's tainted.

Pass the hatstand, Mildred.

[Kaff]

Not commenting on the Rangers case, but HMRC dines out on tenuous claims. Unlike a legal court with an HMRC charge there is no presumption of innocence. You are guilty until you prove otherwise. As most people have neither the means or sophistication to fight this over the long term HRMC coins it in tenuous claims.

Absolutely, nothing to do with football but this is my personal bitter experience of them

[Libby Hibby]

Add in to the fact that the players involved had to sign 2 contracts, one for the EBT's and one to comply with SFA rules...Ogilvie served on the RFC board and the on the SFA at the same time, directly making the SFA aware of what was going on...and they say FIFA is corrupt???

[CropleyWasGod]

Absolutely, nothing to do with football but this is my personal bitter experience of them
I'd agree with that :)

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[CropleyWasGod]

Untainted & factual - while some are blindsided by "outbursts" from individuals they dinnae like, the big picture goin back a long time is that 2 & ONLY 2, teams in Scotland used devious means to gain advantage against ALL teams in Scotland, but the one that sticks wi me is all the savs & huns times getting above Hibs, but, whoever the individual & whatever their main leanings, the fact that said savs & huns beat my team, namely Hibernian FC, in leagues & cups, while ILLEGALLY doing so financially, (while my team suffered defeats but followed the law & guidelines) means that anyone, regardless wether I respect them from afore cos they were good, but if your sticking up for the the's or the savs sorry but thats not my cup of tea. They want their "history" but they don't want mention of how it's tainted? Sorry. It's tainted.
Wouldn't you add Dundee, Gretna and (with particular reference to Hibs ) Livi to that list?

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[Ozyhibby]

https://johnjamessite.wordpress.com/2015/10/02/are-the-new-board-running-on-fumes/

Money running out?


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[Platinum Scotty]

https://johnjamessite.wordpress.com/2015/10/02/are-the-new-board-running-on-fumes/

Money running out?


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if his numbers are right then someone needs to bail them out or they doomef again!!!

[Platinum Scotty]

https://johnjamessite.wordpress.com/2015/10/02/are-the-new-board-running-on-fumes/

Money running out?


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if his numbers are right then someone needs to bail them out or they doomed again!!!

[Ozyhibby]

https://johnjamessite.wordpress.com/2015/10/03/10m-deficit-incontrovertible-facts/

Here are his numbers.


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[Lago]

https://johnjamessite.wordpress.com/2015/10/02/are-the-new-board-running-on-fumes/

Money running out?


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I will believe that only when it happens, they have more lives than a cat.:confused:

[CropleyWasGod]

https://johnjamessite.wordpress.com/2015/10/03/10m-deficit-incontrovertible-facts/

Here are his numbers.


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He starts off slagging Phil for having no legitimacy to his claims, and then makes assertions of his own which would require inside information of an extremely detailed nature. He may well have that, of course.

However, he then blows his "incontrovertible" claims out of the water by making a complete pig's ear of the question of VAT. :rolleyes:

[Jack]

He starts off slagging Phil for having no legitimacy to his claims, and then makes assertions of his own which would require inside information of an extremely detailed nature. He may well have that, of course.

However, he then blows his "incontrovertible" claims out of the water by making a complete pig's ear of the question of VAT. :rolleyes:

VAT was their downfall the last time wasn't it?

Maybe they've still not got to grips with it!

[ballengeich]

https://johnjamessite.wordpress.com/2015/10/03/10m-deficit-incontrovertible-facts/

Here are his numbers.


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He seems to think the 13-14 revenue includes the share issue and Ashley loan. I think that's wrong and that the projected loss for this season should be around £4 million. It's still a serious problem for them, but doesn't indicate that the cash will run out this month.

[Ozyhibby]

He seems to think the 13-14 revenue includes the share issue and Ashley loan. I think that's wrong and that the projected loss for this season should be around £4 million. It's still a serious problem for them, but doesn't indicate that the cash will run out this month.

The share money he is talking about is the loans from the 3 bears. Not sure what year that was though.


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[CropleyWasGod]

He seems to think the 13-14 revenue includes the share issue and Ashley loan. I think that's wrong and that the projected loss for this season should be around £4 million. It's still a serious problem for them, but doesn't indicate that the cash will run out this month.

Yeah, I picked up on that, too. By that time, his incontrovertible evidence was shot to bits and my eyes were glazing over. :greengrin

The other thing worth bearing in mind is that the VAT should still be included in the cash flow. Albeit, at some stage, it has to be paid over to HMRC, it doesn't mean that they will. As in the previous situation, non-payment of VAT and PAYE can be used to buy time.

[CropleyWasGod]

The share money he is talking about is the loans from the 3 bears. Not sure what year that was though.


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He seems to be saying that it is income, though. Ie that it counts towards profit.

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[grunt]

I don't think finances are his speciality.

[ballengeich]

The share money he is talking about is the loans from the 3 bears. Not sure what year that was though.


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I think it predates the share involvement of the 3 bears and King and their loans. There was a rights issue while Ashley, Laxey and the Easedale group still controlled over 50% of the shares and I think it refers to that. I can't remember the exact date of this.

[CropleyWasGod]

I don't think finances are his speciality.

Clearly not.

He does, though, seem to have (or thinks he has) an insight into "something". What that is, we can't know. However, it feels to me as if he has taken a little knowledge of that something, and built a lot of assumptions around it.

One of those being that VAT is 25% :greengrin

[greenginger]

If anything is going to kill the Rangers , it will be cash flow as they have no credit facilities.

it can't just be assumed they have £ 8 million plus for seasons as they have a monthly payments plan, so their spending pot will be reduced by an amount that is anybody's guess.

Walk ups, and commercial can be estimated but I can't see it lasting after November if, they are paying all their bills as they fall due !

now where have we heard that phrase before. :greengrin

[CropleyWasGod]

If anything is going to kill the Rangers , it will be cash flow as they have no credit facilities.

it can't just be assumed they have £ 8 million plus for seasons as they have a monthly payments plan, so their spending pot will be reduced by an amount that is anybody's guess.

Walk ups, and commercial can be estimated but I can't see it lasting after November if, they are paying all their bills as they fall due !

now where have we heard that phrase before. :greengrin
The longer they manage to hold it together this season, the more likely they are to get some short - term funding to allow them to make it to the end.....or at least until next season's ST'S go on sale.

In the interim, I hope that HMRC are being vigilant :)

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[ScottB]

The longer they manage to hold it together this season, the more likely they are to get some short - term funding to allow them to make it to the end.....or at least until next season's ST'S go on sale.

In the interim, I hope that HMRC are being vigilant :)

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Won't they have to be paying such things on a monthly basis because of their 'history' rather than the usual quarterly?

One would hope they wouldn't be given much rope before hanging them anyway!

[CropleyWasGod]

Won't they have to be paying such things on a monthly basis because of their 'history' rather than the usual quarterly?

One would hope they wouldn't be given much rope before hanging them anyway!
It's normal for HMRC to demand monthly payments if the company has a bad past record, or if the people involved have a bad record elsewhere. Problem in this case is that it's a new company, with a new cast of characters.
Not sure if they could justify such a demand in this case.

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[Col2]

How funny would it be if they managed to keep winning, strengthen in January for 'tilt at Premiership title next season', extend lead to 15 points and then in say late March had an insolvency event... And a 25 point penalty and we go 10 points clear with only 6 or 7 games to go!!!!!

[CropleyWasGod]

How funny would it be if they managed to keep winning, strengthen in January for 'tilt at Premiership title next season', extend lead to 15 points and then in say late March had an insolvency event... And a 25 point penalty and we go 10 points clear with only 6 or 7 games to go!!!!!
Hilarious :)

But, if they get as far as March they'll make it to the end of the season.

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[Col2]

Hilarious :)

But, if they get as far as March they'll make it to the end of the season.

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Good point. Season ticket advance sales and all that.... Ok November or just before Xmas and I am happy:wink:

[Ozyhibby]

Is it not this week they are in court with Charles Green about paying his legal bills? That could change the game very quickly as they just don't have the money for that.


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[AndyM_1875]

Not commenting on the Rangers case, but HMRC dines out on tenuous claims. Unlike a legal court with an HMRC charge there is no presumption of innocence. You are guilty until you prove otherwise. As most people have neither the means or sophistication to fight this over the long term HRMC coins it in tenuous claims.

Very true.

Meanwhile stuff like this (http://trib.al/zZ4N8M0) goes unchecked for years....

[CropleyWasGod]

Is it not this week they are in court with Charles Green about paying his legal bills? That could change the game very quickly as they just don't have the money for that.


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You might be right about the timing. However, I don't expect that it will be a game-changer yet.

The likeliest scenario will be that the Court will adjourn the case to allow the club to get their defence together. However, if CG's lawyers are smart, they will ask the Court to order that a certain amount of money be set aside, just in case the club runs out of money. (like wot Imran did....).

That latter scenario would be nice.

[Jim44]

It's normal for HMRC to demand monthly payments if the company has a bad past record, or if the people involved have a bad record elsewhere. Problem in this case is that it's a new company, with a new cast of characters.
Not sure if they could justify such a demand in this case.

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Even when HMRC know that they are dealing with a convicted tax dodging criminal?

[PatHead]

You might be right about the timing. However, I don't expect that it will be a game-changer yet.

The likeliest scenario will be that the Court will adjourn the case to allow the club to get their defence together. However, if CG's lawyers are smart, they will ask the Court to order that a certain amount of money be set aside, just in case the club runs out of money. (like wot Imran did....).

That latter scenario would be nice.

Thing is I doubt Cheery Charlie will be willing to come to a settlement like others have. He will want them to stick to the contract:rules: and pay in full.

[PatHead]

Even when HMRC know that they are dealing with a convicted tax dodging criminal?

Who has been called a glib and shameless liar in a court of law.

[CropleyWasGod]

Even when HMRC know that they are dealing with a convicted tax dodging criminal?

He wasn't involved when the company was set up, and became VAT registered. That's the point at which HMRC normally make the "monthly" demand.

If RFC have been on time with their Returns and payments thus far, HMRC will take no action. However, if there have been lapses, they might then decide to have another look at things. King's history might then become an issue.

[CropleyWasGod]

Thing is I doubt Cheery Charlie will be willing to come to a settlement like others have. He will want them to stick to the contract:rules: and pay in full.

I'm not suggesting that there will be a settlement. What I'm suggesting is that £x might be set aside in an independent account, ring-fenced.

[Ozyhibby]

You might be right about the timing. However, I don't expect that it will be a game-changer yet.

The likeliest scenario will be that the Court will adjourn the case to allow the club to get their defence together. However, if CG's lawyers are smart, they will ask the Court to order that a certain amount of money be set aside, just in case the club runs out of money. (like wot Imran did....).

That latter scenario would be nice.

I'm not sure how the legal process work but surely they can't adjourn too long as Charlie is due in court before the end of the month for their preliminary hearings. Surely he needs to know who is paying for his defence before that? Would they hold up the whole case while one defendant sorts out his legal fees?


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[Ozyhibby]

https://johnjamessite.wordpress.com/2015/10/05/the-cash-crisis/


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[CropleyWasGod]

https://johnjamessite.wordpress.com/2015/10/05/the-cash-crisis/


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Strangely, a post querying his misunderstanding of VAT has been deleted.:rolleyes:

[CropleyWasGod]

I'm not sure how the legal process work but surely they can't adjourn too long as Charlie is due in court before the end of the month for their preliminary hearings. Surely he needs to know who is paying for his defence before that? Would they hold up the whole case while one defendant sorts out his legal fees?


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I think buying time is a favourite game played by defences.

In any event, like you say, it's only a preliminary hearing. It will be months before it gets anywhere near the meaty bits.

[brog]

https://johnjamessite.wordpress.com/2015/10/05/the-cash-crisis/


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If even some of that is correct then it's really bad news, I mean of course great news for us. Sevco are a dream, has any one institution ever had such a succession of shysters in charge? The gift that keeps on giving!

[greenginger]

Phil Mac has a new piece to his blog entitled King has a Plan. Sorry can't post a copy.

basically says King is flying in to tell the People if they want their club saved they will have to dig deep themselves.

it sort of worked for the Liths with the puddle drinkers at the PBS, raised over a million, so who knows.

[Smartie]

If even some of that is correct then it's really bad news, I mean of course great news for us. Sevco are a dream, has any one institution ever had such a succession of shysters in charge? The gift that keeps on giving!

Is it really good for us though?

I have a feeling that they'll weasel their way through this season by fair means or foul (let's face it - it's going to be foul).

This season is big for us as we're up against them directly. But surely it won't be that difficult for them to squeeze through another few months and start selling season tickets for the premier league at inflated prices in January or so, with them 20 points or so clear at the top of the league?

I reckon that they have another day of reckoning coming. But by then they'll be back in the top league, filling the away ends at Killie and Hearts and the fact that they'll have horsed us this season using money that they didn't have will be conveniently forgotten (as tends to happen with this kind of thing in Scotland).

[southsider]

Is it really good for us though?

I have a feeling that they'll weasel their way through this season by fair means or foul (let's face it - it's going to be foul).

This season is big for us as we're up against them directly. But surely it won't be that difficult for them to squeeze through another few months and start selling season tickets for the premier league at inflated prices in January or so, with them 20 points or so clear at the top of the league?

I reckon that they have another day of reckoning coming. But by then they'll be back in the top league, filling the away ends at Killie and Hearts and the fact that they'll have horsed us this season using money that they didn't have will be conveniently forgotten (as tends to happen with this kind of thing in Scotland).
They have not horsed us this season except an understreangth Hibs side in some diddy cup. The league game was a tight affair with our new signing still settling in. 3 league games left and I expect a minimum of 7 points.

[Smartie]

They have not horsed us this season except an understreangth Hibs side in some diddy cup. The league game was a tight affair with our new signing still settling in. 3 league games left and I expect a minimum of 7 points.

Fair point, except I don't see them dropping many points over the course of the season and I still see us dropping silly points via being unable to break down defensive teams over the course of this season.

The cumulative effect of that is a horsing over the course of a season.

[CropleyWasGod]

If even some of that is correct then it's really bad news, I mean of course great news for us. Sevco are a dream, has any one institution ever had such a succession of shysters in charge? The gift that keeps on giving!

I agree.

However, his manner in dealing with dissent, or even reasonable questioning, is p'ing me off. There seems to be no shades of blue with the guy.

[matty_f]

Obviously I'm speaking without the benefit of a crystal ball, but I would be amazed if The Rangers had anything even remotely like an insolvency event this season, or any season going forward, and no amount of ramblings from clearly biased bloggers will change my mind on that.

If we want to win the league, we'll have to do it the usual way- get more points than the rest of the league. There's zero chance (IMHO) of us benefiting from a points deduction to The Rangers.

[Ozyhibby]

Obviously I'm speaking without the benefit of a crystal ball, but I would be amazed if The Rangers had anything even remotely like an insolvency event this season, or any season going forward, and no amount of ramblings from clearly biased bloggers will change my mind on that.

If we want to win the league, we'll have to do it the usual way- get more points than the rest of the league. There's zero chance (IMHO) of us benefiting from a points deduction to The Rangers.

I agree that it seems unlikely because we can't see who benefits but it is still possible. They need money put in before the end of the season and whoever puts it in is unlikely to see it again. Something will have to give soon.


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[CropleyWasGod]

I agree that it seems unlikely because we can't see who benefits but it is still possible. They need money put in before the end of the season and whoever puts it in is unlikely to see it again. Something will have to give soon.


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Not sure what you mean by this.

I'd reckon than 95% of administrations happen because there is no other option. It's not about who "benefits."

[Jim44]

Obviously I'm speaking without the benefit of a crystal ball, but I would be amazed if The Rangers had anything even remotely like an insolvency event this season, or any season going forward, and no amount of ramblings from clearly biased bloggers will change my mind on that.

If we want to win the league, we'll have to do it the usual way- get more points than the rest of the league. There's zero chance (IMHO) of us benefiting from a points deduction to The Rangers.


I agree that it seems unlikely because we can't see who benefits but it is still possible. They need money put in before the end of the season and whoever puts it in is unlikely to see it again. Something will have to give soon.



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I agree with matty_f about the integrity of these anti-Sevco bloggers and also that Sevco will have any significant financial problems. We talk scathingly about King and his cronies but nobody really knows anything about their financial clout. Their on-field progress is unfortunately well underway and I have no doubts that any financial hurdles will be cleared as and when they occur, by whichever individuals and groups have their club at heart.

[CropleyWasGod]

https://johnjamessite.wordpress.com/2015/10/05/the-cash-crisis/


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I've now made 4 attempts at posting on his blog, to query some of his fundamental assumptions.

Not one has been published. :greengrin

[HoboHarry]

I've now made 4 attempts at posting on his blog, to query some of his fundamental assumptions.

Not one has been published. :greengrin

Does he not know who you are? 😉

[greenginger]

http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/football/34456881


Whilst we all know it is a non starter, it would be nice to think a big club would come along and cherry pick one of their assets.

[Ozyhibby]

http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/football/34456881


Whilst we all know it is a non starter, it would be nice to think a big club would come along and cherry pick one of their assets.

Level 5 earning their fees there.


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[CropleyWasGod]

Does he not know who you are? 

Clearly he does.... :greengrin

[CropleyWasGod]

http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/football/34456881


Whilst we all know it is a non starter, it would be nice to think a big club would come along and cherry pick one of their assets.

It would cost them, though.... :wink:

[greenginger]

It would cost them, though.... :wink:


Been having a look a the great Warbo's business empire outwith football. Mark Howard Warburton is full name.

All available free with Companies house BETA service.

Director and member of 5 companies and LLP's, 4 struck off and remaining one awaiting compulsory strikeoff. One had £ 5 million owed to one of its other directors.

The family house in Potters Bar is noted too, nice enough, but not what you would expect a high flying City trader to retire to.

As Oz says, Level 5 earn their money .

[GreenLake]

http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/football/34456881


Whilst we all know it is a non starter, it would be nice to think a big club would come along and cherry pick one of their assets.

With a massive transfer fee going to Wigan.

[steakbake]

Level 5 earning their fees there.


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All it would take for Warburton to "enter the race" is for someone to stick some cash on him at a bookies. Hell, one of us could stick some cash on Calderwood and before you know it, he'd be linked, too.

[greenginger]

I've now made 4 attempts at posting on his blog, to query some of his fundamental assumptions.

Not one has been published. :greengrin


https://johnjamessite.wordpress.com/2015/10/06/100000-views-since-launch-on-19-september/


johnjames says he welcomes contributions to the site as long as they are unadulterated !

What have you been saying to him ? :greengrin

[CropleyWasGod]

https://johnjamessite.wordpress.com/2015/10/06/100000-views-since-launch-on-19-september/


johnjames says he welcomes contributions to the site as long as they are unadulterated !

What have you been saying to him ? :greengrin

:greengrin

That he canny work a calculator.... :rolleyes:

[greenginger]

Did you read his piece on the Sevco shuffle ? sailing pretty close to the wind with the forthcoming court case.

[CropleyWasGod]

Did you read his piece on the Sevco shuffle ? sailing pretty close to the wind with the forthcoming court case.

Do you mean that JJ is sailing close to the wind?

If so, absolutely. It reads like a statement from the prosecution. :greengrin

[greenginger]

Do you mean that JJ is sailing close to the wind?

If so, absolutely. It reads like a statement from the prosecution. :greengrin


Yep, that's why I did'nt post a link. Canny have the admins being huckled for contempt.

[KeithTheHibby]

http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/football/34456881


Whilst we all know it is a non starter, it would be nice to think a big club would come along and cherry pick one of their assets.

Yup, when I checked this morning Warburton was 100/1 for the Liverpool job. The same as Pat Fenlon!

[jacomo]

Yup, when I checked this morning Warburton was 100/1 for the Liverpool job. The same as Pat Fenlon!

Hilarious that he's talking himself up for the Liverpool job!

Hey, this guy who won Bundesliga twice and got to CL Final seems interested, but then we heard about a bloke who's managed in the 2nd tier in both England AND Scotland! Sign him up!

[Ozyhibby]

http://www.philmacgiollabhain.ie/overinvestors-required/


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[CropleyWasGod]

http://www.philmacgiollabhain.ie/overinvestors-required/


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John James also mentioned this escrow account. Whilst I understand what it means. ......it's not a term that is normally used in the UK. It's an American term.

Edit. It seems that HMRC use it in certain circumstances. Maybe I'm just not used to dodgy clients :)


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[Ozyhibby]

John James also mentioned this escrow account. Whilst I understand what it means. ......it's not a term that is normally used in the UK. It's an American term.

Edit. It seems that HMRC use it in certain circumstances. Maybe I'm just not used to dodgy clients :)


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Does appear that they need cash quickly.


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[jacomo]

http://www.philmacgiollabhain.ie/overinvestors-required/


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Strewth. Clutching at straws.

[Ozyhibby]

Strewth. Clutching at straws.

What makes you think that?


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[greenginger]

Strewth. Clutching at straws.


Indisputable facts are by October last season Rangers received £ 3.1 million from a share issue and £ 2 million from Ashley in a loan.

Then had to ask for another £ 1 million in November .

They will need extra cash sometime soon.

[jacomo]

What makes you think that?


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Because he's been hinting at impending financial crisis for months, and in the absense of anything happening he's still doing the same - with the same oh so familiar pops at the MSM for good measure.

Clearly, not all is rosy at The Rangers. Money might well be quite tight and the Lying King certainly doesn't seem to have backed his big words with big cash. But it doesn't necessarily mean administration is on the cards.

Mike Ashley might enjoy seeing them squirm, but I imagine he also wants to see them promoted this season.

[Ozyhibby]

Because he's been hinting at impending financial crisis for months, and in the absense of anything happening he's still doing the same - with the same oh so familiar pops at the MSM for good measure.

Clearly, not all is rosy at The Rangers. Money might well be quite tight and the Lying King certainly doesn't seem to have backed his big words with big cash. But it doesn't necessarily mean administration is on the cards.

Mike Ashley might enjoy seeing them squirm, but I imagine he also wants to see them promoted this season.

He doesn't say admin is on the cards, just that they are running out of cash.
Admin can be prevented by someone putting in a big chunk of cash.
Do you think Mike Ashley will put up the dough?


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[scoopyboy]

Because he's been hinting at impending financial crisis for months, and in the absense of anything happening he's still doing the same - with the same oh so familiar pops at the MSM for good measure.

Clearly, not all is rosy at The Rangers. Money might well be quite tight and the Lying King certainly doesn't seem to have backed his big words with big cash. But it doesn't necessarily mean administration is on the cards.

Mike Ashley might enjoy seeing them squirm, but I imagine he also wants to see them promoted this season.

He might need his money back to get shot of Steve McLaren. :greengrin

[Ozyhibby]

https://johnjamessite.wordpress.com/2015/10/08/the-emperor-with-no-clothes/


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[Ozyhibby]

I think that Whyte and Green case has been moved to the High Court in Edinburgh.


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[MrSmith]

If rangers can't prove 18 months liquidity, how the are able to keep their licence? The more I read the more fraudulent it appears re our footballing authorities. Action must be taken as this cannot continue. Fit and proper? My big fat ass!

[Ozyhibby]

https://johnjamessite.wordpress.com/2015/10/08/are-the-new-board-so-bereft-of-funds-that-they-cannot-defend-greens-petition/


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[jacomo]

He doesn't say admin is on the cards, just that they are running out of cash.
Admin can be prevented by someone putting in a big chunk of cash.
Do you think Mike Ashley will put up the dough?


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Running out of cash = admin... unless, as you say, someone puts money in.

It could be that King et al DO have more cash, but won't put any in unless they absolutely have to.

Ashley certainly could bail them out again if he wants to, but has an incentive to wait until they are begging him for money before doing so.

Who knows?

[JeMeSouviens]

Running out of cash = admin... unless, as you say, someone puts money in.

It could be that King et al DO have more cash, but won't put any in unless they absolutely have to.

Ashley certainly could bail them out again if he wants to, but has an incentive to wait until they are begging him for money before doing so.

Who knows?

My money would be on Ashley re-taking control by the short'n'curlies. He's spent enough time and money on it, so he must see some return to be made there.

[Jim44]

Running out of cash = admin... unless, as you say, someone puts money in.

It could be that King et al DO have more cash, but won't put any in unless they absolutely have to.

Ashley certainly could bail them out again if he wants to, but has an incentive to wait until they are begging him for money before doing so.

Who knows?


My money would be on Ashley re-taking control by the short'n'curlies. He's spent enough time and money on it, so he must see some return to be made there.

Ashley will bail them out if he has to as his interests in Sevco are only of value if the club is alive and flourishing. If he has to go to Ashley cap in hand, Kng won't like it as he will lose face with the fans, but any port in a storm as they say.

[greenginger]

My money would be on Ashley re-taking control by the short'n'curlies. He's spent enough time and money on it, so he must see some return to be made there.


Ashley can't take control. he has already been fined by the SFA for duel control of football clubs.

His £ 5 million loan is secured on some of the club property assets and his interests in Rangers Retail will prevail through administration or liquidation of the football club.

The only source of cash are the rangers support , or as Vlad so accurately referred to them as the " Simple Fans " :greengrin

[Ozyhibby]

Even liquidation does not get rid of Ashley as he has the intellectual property rights and security over everything except Ibrox.


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[JeMeSouviens]

Ashley can't take control. he has already been fined by the SFA for duel control of football clubs.

His £ 5 million loan is secured on some of the club property assets and his interests in Rangers Retail will prevail through administration or liquidation of the football club.

The only source of cash are the rangers support , or as Vlad so accurately referred to them as the " Simple Fans " :greengrin

He can't take a majority shareholding.

[Hibee87]

He can't take a majority shareholding.

This might sound to easy, but could he not sell Newcastle to his 'friend' (insert name) then be the major shareholder in rangers, do as he wishes, then sell them on and re buy newcastle form his 'friend'?

[greenginger]

Ashley is not a Rangers supporter. He will be quite happy to wait and let the rangers people sort things out even if it takes a few more seasons.

As long as there are people kicking a ball and calling themselves Rangers , there will be a market for his merchandise.

[Ozyhibby]

This might sound to easy, but could he not sell Newcastle to his 'friend' (insert name) then be the major shareholder in rangers, do as he wishes, then sell them on and re buy newcastle form his 'friend'?

There are very strict laws about that sort of thing.


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[Ozyhibby]

@sitonfence: Friday 16th October

Preliminary Hearing

CA196/15 Charles Green v The Rangers International Football Club Plc


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[greenginger]

@sitonfence: Friday 16th October

Preliminary Hearing

CA196/15 Charles Green v The Rangers International Football Club Plc


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http://www.sfm.scot/the-case-for-a-new-sfa/comment-page-7/?cid=19782

Being suggested it has been moved to Edinburgh as all seven will be pleading guilty to the charges in return for shorter sentences.

That could prove an immediate problem for Sevco. Money was raised on the Stock Exchange by fraud. The Exchange can petition for immediate liquidation of the defrauding entity.

[Ozyhibby]

http://www.sfm.scot/the-case-for-a-new-sfa/comment-page-7/?cid=19782

Being suggested it has been moved to Edinburgh as all seven will be pleading guilty to the charges in return for shorter sentences.

That could prove an immediate problem for Sevco. Money was raised on the Stock Exchange by fraud. The Exchange can petition for immediate liquidation of the defrauding entity.

I would be amazed if one of them plead guilty never mind all of them. I would rather have the long trial with lots of laundry getting washed in public and the outing of the involvement of the SFA.


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[MrSmith]

I would be amazed if one of them plead guilty never mind all of them. I would rather have the long trial with lots of laundry getting washed in public and the outing of the involvement of the SFA.


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Me too!

[KeithTheHibby]

Ashley is not a Rangers supporter. He will be quite happy to wait and let the rangers people sort things out even if it takes a few more seasons.

As long as there are people kicking a ball and calling themselves Rangers , there will be a market for his merchandise.


This. On the park the club is on the up, which in turn means more sales of strips etc.

Off the park who knows however his security will mean he won't lose much if anything at all if it all goes tits up.

[greenginger]

I would be amazed if one of them plead guilty never mind all of them. I would rather have the long trial with lots of laundry getting washed in public and the outing of the involvement of the SFA.


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Exactly why the Establishment would want a guilty plea.

Of course it would depend on the case and evidence against each individual , but the alternative of 10 years in the Bar-L or 2 years say in a cosy jail and parole after 9 months could be attractive to the accused.

[CropleyWasGod]

Even liquidation does not get rid of Ashley as he has the intellectual property rights and security over everything except Ibrox.


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Liquidation would get rid of the security, whether or not he was repaid.

As for the IP rights, not sure they would be worth much if the club didn't exist any more :)

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[Ozyhibby]

Liquidation would get rid of the security, whether or not he was repaid.

As for the IP rights, not sure they would be worth much if the club didn't exist any more :)

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Wouldn't that be nice. [emoji23]


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[Ozyhibby]

https://johnjamessite.wordpress.com/2015/10/09/the-perfect-storm/


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[lucky]

https://johnjamessite.wordpress.com/2015/10/09/the-perfect-storm/


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Sadly that site just spouts pish on Rangers but it would be funny if they were liquidated

[steakbake]

Sadly that site just spouts pish on Rangers but it would be funny if they were liquidated

It'd be quality. Though somehow, I think the SFA would conspire a fudge to prevent the ethereal holding company from having to reapply for membership of the leagues for their separate entity (the club) and to make sure they end up "back where they belong" in the SPL.

Especially because we're all too aware that the last time that happened, the requirements for admission to the leagues were completely overlooked.

[steakbake]

Liquidation would get rid of the security, whether or not he was repaid.

As for the IP rights, not sure they would be worth much if the club didn't exist any more :)

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I don't know - another phoenix club and the devil is in the detail: does Ashley hold the rights to the "Rangers" brand? Could it be that no matter what happens, any club calling itself Rangers (The Rangers, The The Rangers, Rangers 2015 etc) would come under the IP that Ashley holds?

To be honest, they gave Cheerful Charlie a carte blanche to chalk up any future legal fees to the club. It wouldn't surprise me in the slightest if they mortgaged off their identity in exchange for a few million from Ashley.

Mugs. hahahah

[Jack]

https://johnjamessite.wordpress.com/2015/10/09/the-perfect-storm/


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There was chat a while ago about insurance to cover this sort of thing. Was the have they got it or not question ever answered?

[steakbake]

There was chat a while ago about insurance to cover this sort of thing. Was the have they got it or not question ever answered?

Judging by how the MSM generally softball all things (The) Rangers, I think the real question is, has the question ever asked and has anyone ever really been pressed for an answer?

[HoboHarry]

Sadly that site just spouts pish on Rangers but it would be funny if they were liquidated

In what respect are his comments @@@@? He is simply giving his opinions like anyone else has the right too. Personally I find him and Phil Mac a refreshing change from the mainstream media who are not even attempting to perform their duties or are too scared to publish what they know or think.

There is no obligation to believe everything you read - but there is enough information out there to be able to form your opinions.

[jacomo]

In what respect are his comments @@@@? He is simply giving his opinions like anyone else has the right too. Personally I find him and Phil Mac a refreshing change from the mainstream media who are not even attempting to perform their duties or are too scared to publish what they know or think.

There is no obligation to believe everything you read - but there is enough information out there to be able to form your opinions.

Well, for one thing, he says a 25 point deduction won't harm their chances of automatic promotion.

I appreciate we are behind them in the League, but 25 points?

[HoboHarry]

Well, for one thing, he says a 25 point deduction won't harm their chances of automatic promotion.

I appreciate we are behind them in the League, but 25 points?

Completely agree with you on that, my questions were more about the financial side and I realize I wasn't very clear on that. I also think he is supremely optimistic that someone with more money will take Kings place. How did that work out the last time? 😉

[jacomo]

Completely agree with you on that, my questions were more about the financial side and I realize I wasn't very clear on that. I also think he is supremely optimistic that someone with more money will take Kings place. How did that work out the last time? 😉

No I did get that, it's just that particular line made me question how accurate any of his musings might be.

I think his estimated 8 figure legal costs might be fanciful, too. He's just taken top end daily rates and extrapolated them over a long time period - I'm not sure that's particularly reliable.

[HoboHarry]

No I did get that, it's just that particular line made me question how accurate any of his musings might be.

I think his estimated 8 figure legal costs might be fanciful, too. He's just taken top end daily rates and extrapolated them over a long time period - I'm not sure that's particularly reliable.

Agreed but at least we have a self confessed Rangers man questioning and being critical of the club which is an awful lot more than the cowards in the press are doing. CWG has already picked holes in his figures but then who really knows the whole truth of what's going on there?

[Ozyhibby]

I don't know - another phoenix club and the devil is in the detail: does Ashley hold the rights to the "Rangers" brand? Could it be that no matter what happens, any club calling itself Rangers (The Rangers, The The Rangers, Rangers 2015 etc) would come under the IP that Ashley holds?

To be honest, they gave Cheerful Charlie a carte blanche to chalk up any future legal fees to the club. It wouldn't surprise me in the slightest if they mortgaged off their identity in exchange for a few million from Ashley.

Mugs. hahahah

Ashley owns the name Rangers, the badges, strip designs and even Broxi Bear. Rangers have the right to buy them back if they pay back the £5m but if there is admin then they won't even be part of the CVA process.
Their next saviour will need to go speak to big mike.


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[Ozyhibby]

No I did get that, it's just that particular line made me question how accurate any of his musings might be.

I think his estimated 8 figure legal costs might be fanciful, too. He's just taken top end daily rates and extrapolated them over a long time period - I'm not sure that's particularly reliable.

His figures do look a touch expensive even for lawyers. Thankfully a fraction of that figure would be enough to sink them.


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[JeMeSouviens]

This time the New Huns are 2 companies: RIFC which owns RFC (formerly Sevco Scotland).

There might be some way to pass on RFC to a new vehicle and leave the debt behind in RIFC?

[greenginger]

This time the New Huns are 2 companies: RIFC which owns RFC (formerly Sevco Scotland).

There might be some way to pass on RFC to a new vehicle and leave the debt behind in RIFC?


Even if they managed to pass on TRFC to a new holding company, the 25 penalty points sanction would still apply. That is very clear in the SPFL rules. Any disposal of the companies main asset would have to be agreed by the shareholders of RIFC.

I don't think there is that much debt as nobody will give them credit. Their problem is finding hard cash to pay wages and Hector.

[JeMeSouviens]

Even if they managed to pass on TRFC to a new holding company, the 25 penalty points sanction would still apply. That is very clear in the SPFL rules. Any disposal of the companies main asset would have to be agreed by the shareholders of RIFC.

I don't think there is that much debt as nobody will give them credit. Their problem is finding hard cash to pay wages and Hector.

Yes, the 25 pts is clear. But could they avoid div 3 for a New New Huns by keeping this New Huns under a different holding co?

Debts of 5M to Ashley and a few M to 3 bears.

[Ozyhibby]

Even if they managed to pass on TRFC to a new holding company, the 25 penalty points sanction would still apply. That is very clear in the SPFL rules. Any disposal of the companies main asset would have to be agreed by the shareholders of RIFC.

I don't think there is that much debt as nobody will give them credit. Their problem is finding hard cash to pay wages and Hector.

I agree, I think it's cash flow rather than debt that will sink them.


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[overdrive]

Yes, the 25 pts is clear. But could they avoid div 3 for a New New Huns by keeping this New Huns under a different holding co?

Debts of 5M to Ashley and a few M to 3 bears.

Similar to what happened with us, you mean?

[CropleyWasGod]

Yes, the 25 pts is clear. But could they avoid div 3 for a New New Huns by keeping this New Huns under a different holding co?

Debts of 5M to Ashley and a few M to 3 bears.
The issue with that is the SFA licence. The new holding company would have to apply for a new licence. That's what did for them last time.

However, the way round it is to have a successful CVA, as Hearts did. Not sure how likely that is. It would probably depend on the extent, actual and relative, of the HMRC debt.

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[Ozyhibby]

The issue with that is the SFA licence. The new holding company would have to apply for a new licence. That's what did for them last time.

However, the way round it is to have a successful CVA, as Hearts did. Not sure how likely that is. It would probably depend on the extent, actual and relative, of the HMRC debt.

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Would they not struggle for a CVA while ownership of all the asserts is in dispute? And while the brand is owned by Ashley.


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[CropleyWasGod]

Would they not struggle for a CVA while ownership of all the asserts is in dispute? And while the brand is owned by Ashley.


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A successful CVA would pay off Ashley as the secured creditor and return the brand to RFC.

Whether it would be successful? Like any CVA....that would depend on a willing buyer and a willing seller. The buyer would have to satisfy themselves as to the ownership of the assets, and offer enough to make it worthwhile to the seller, ie the unsecured creditors.

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[Ozyhibby]

Ashley doesn't just have security though, he owns the ip.


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[greenginger]

Ashley doesn't just have security though, he owns the ip.


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He also has security over a dated , half empty office block called Edmiston House and a car park that has some significance planning wise for the Club to use its corporate guests deck.

[greenginger]

http://www.dailyrecord.co.uk/news/scottish-news/rangers-fugitive-imran-ahmad-transfers-6607054

Daily ****** having a pop at Imran Ahmad for moving his assets to his wife's name.

Fail to mention he is only copying Chairman King when the South African Hectors were closing in on him . :greengrin

[greenginger]

Even more Machiavellian plotting from JohnJames. :confused:


https://johnjamessite.wordpress.com/2015/10/11/rfc-redux/

[MrSmith]

The more I read of this farcical merry go round, the more I'm convinced the Rangers are finished! There is no money in Scottish Football and there is no-one daft enough to invest in a sunken ship that is breaking up on the ocean floor ...

[Killiehibbie]

The more I read of this farcical merry go round, the more I'm convinced the Rangers are finished! There is no money in Scottish Football and there is no-one daft enough to invest in a sunken ship that is breaking up on the ocean floor ...As long as they go pop before the end of the season, i've backed us at 14's, 16's and 20's to win the league.

[JeMeSouviens]

Similar to what happened with us, you mean?

Yes, although STF ultimately paid the holding co's debt didn't he?

[JeMeSouviens]

The issue with that is the SFA licence. The new holding company would have to apply for a new licence. That's what did for them last time.

However, the way round it is to have a successful CVA, as Hearts did. Not sure how likely that is. It would probably depend on the extent, actual and relative, of the HMRC debt.

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No, last time the licence was held by the company that was the old huns. When that died, the licence was passed to Sevco, since renamed RFC. Separately, RIFC was set up to own Sevco.

So this time RIFC could go pop (incurring a 25 pt penalty as the parent co of Sevco) but Sevco itself and its licence could be passed on.

[CropleyWasGod]

No, last time the licence was held by the company that was the old huns. When that died, the licence was passed to Sevco, since renamed RFC. Separately, RIFC was set up to own Sevco.

So this time RIFC could go pop (incurring a 25 pt penalty as the parent co of Sevco) but Sevco itself and its licence could be passed on.

That's not what happened.

When RFC went into liquidation, the licence was lost. A new licence was subsequently granted to Sevco, as the result of the infamous 5 way agreement.

If the company goes into administration, it will keep the licence, as Hearts did. If it then goes into liquidation, the licence will be lost.

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[CropleyWasGod]

.

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[Cropley10]

As long as they go pop before the end of the season, i've backed us at 14's, 16's and 20's to win the league.

Great value. well played.:agree:

[JeMeSouviens]

That's not what happened.

When RFC went into liquidation, the licence was lost. A new licence was subsequently granted to Sevco, as the result of the infamous 5 way agreement.

If the company goes into administration, it will keep the licence, as Hearts did. If it then goes into liquidation, the licence will be lost.

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No, that's not right. They didn't get the Old Huns' SPL share, they did get the Old Huns' SFA membership.

[CropleyWasGod]

No, that's not right. They didn't get the Old Huns' SPL share, they did get the Old Huns' SFA membership.
We're probably splitting hairs here. My understanding is that the place was vacant and that Sevco were awarded it as a result of the 5 way agreement.

It wasn't a fair process of course, and it's likely that that would be repeated in the event of their going into liquidation. However, that's on the assumption that there's another buyer who could pick up the pieces quickly enough. That's one of the reasons why the last process "worked"...because there was a buyer in place at the back of the failed CVA.

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[Keith_M]

When the 12 members of the SPL met to discuss the then Sevco's (now Rangers International) application to be admitted directly to the SPL, one of the 12 voting on it (and the only one to vote in favour) was Rangers.

Now, if they were one and the same entity, how could that be possible?

[CropleyWasGod]

When the 12 members of the SPL met to discuss the then Sevco's (now Rangers International) application to be admitted directly to the SPL, one of the 12 voting on it (and the only one to vote in favour) was Rangers.

Now, if they were one and the same entity, how could that be possible?
Only 11 voted.

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[PatHead]

Only 11 voted.

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Was it Killie that abstained?

[Kaiser1962]

Was it Killie that abstained?

Yes

[Moulin Yarns]

Only a month until we find out if Charles Green has screwed the Rangers for his legal fees

http://news.stv.tv/west-central/1330614-date-set-for-charles-green-court-bid-to-make-rangers-pay-legal-costs/

[greenginger]

Let the fun begin.

https://mobile.twitter.com/Pmacgiollabhain/status/654941865767227392

[grunt]

Let the fun begin.

https://mobile.twitter.com/Pmacgiollabhain/status/654941865767227392Doubt much will happen today, just an administrative exercise. Unless they all plead guilty!

[Ozyhibby]

Doubt much will happen today, just an administrative exercise. Unless they all plead guilty!

Agree. Today will be an anti climax.


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[J-C]

Doubt much will happen today, just an administrative exercise. Unless they all plead guilty!


I was up at the council to pay my taxi licence fees and there was a fairly large police presence outside the courthouse and all around the High St area, loads of press waiting outside too, I wonder how much all this is costing the tax payers.

[dangermouse]

I was up at the council to pay my taxi licence fees and there was a fairly large police presence outside the courthouse and all around the High St area, loads of press waiting outside too, I wonder how much all this is costing the tax payers.

Nothing if Charles Green gets his way, The Rangers will foot the bill :greengrin

[Smartie]

Nothing if Charles Green gets his way, The Rangers will foot the bill :greengrin

Although - if The Rangers choose to use employees' PAYE payments as working capital for a few months as they have nobody else prepared to lend them it before finding they can't then make payments to HMRC etc etc………...

It has happened before.

[Keith_M]

Only 11 voted.

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Very informative but it didn't actually answer the question.






:na na:

[CropleyWasGod]

Very informative but it didn't actually answer the question.






:na na:
Every club in the SPL, as it was, had a share in that league. The share held by the old Rangers was one of the assets transferred to Sevco.

Accordingly, Sevco had a vote.

Once they were voted out of the SPL, their share was transferred to Dundee.

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[steakbake]

Only a month until we find out if Charles Green has screwed the Rangers for his legal fees

http://news.stv.tv/west-central/1330614-date-set-for-charles-green-court-bid-to-make-rangers-pay-legal-costs/

Not far from Christmas...

[Ozyhibby]

Every club in the SPL, as it was, had a share in that league. The share held by the old Rangers was one of the assets transferred to Sevco.

Accordingly, Sevco had a vote.

Once they were voted out of the SPL, their share was transferred to Dundee.

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It was old Rangers who had a vote.


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[Ozyhibby]

https://rangersfraudcase.wordpress.com/2015/10/16/the-indictment/

Summary of today in court


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[steakbake]

https://rangersfraudcase.wordpress.com/2015/10/16/the-indictment/

Summary of today in court


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Interesting stuff...

[jacomo]

https://rangersfraudcase.wordpress.com/2015/10/16/the-indictment/

Summary of today in court


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Archive photos there - I wonder if Craigie boy is still rocking his renaissance man look?

Interesting to see the charges laid out. Did Whyte (allegedly) always plan to collude with Green, or did he (allegedly) put together his plan b once he realised plan a was failing?

[steakbake]

Archive photos there - I wonder if Craigie boy is still rocking his renaissance man look?

Interesting to see the charges laid out. Did Whyte (allegedly) always plan to collude with Green, or did he (allegedly) put together his plan b once he realised plan a was failing?

We would probably already know the outcome had the sports journalism community asked the proper questions or even splashed the story.

There's been rumours about the stitch up for ages.

[Ozyhibby]

It looks like they are being charged with exactly what non sevconians said they were doing at the time. [emoji3]


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[Real Emerald]

If they are found guilty of this it has to put a huge question mark over the legitimacy of the company and why they should even be allowed to continue within Scottish football. They were let into the league without the necessary 3 years accounts which looks like being a massive mistake. IF proved guilty the whole existence and continuation of the company must surely be in doubt. At the very least the SPFL can't allow it to continue it's membership, or am I getting ahead of myself? If a company is fraudulently set up what happens to it? Anyone??

[Ozyhibby]

If they are found guilty of this it has to put a huge question mark over the legitimacy of the company and why they should even be allowed to continue within Scottish football. They were let into the league without the necessary 3 years accounts which looks like being a massive mistake. IF proved guilty the whole existence and continuation of the company must surely be in doubt. At the very least the SPFL can't allow it to continue it's membership, or am I getting ahead of myself? If a company is fraudulently set up what happens to it? Anyone??

I've no idea what happens. Do the assets get returned to BDO? Do the new club have to pay compensation to BDO?
The licence to re enter the In Div 3 was on condition that Craig Whyte was not being involved. Will it be revoked? (Don't answer that)
Should it be? Of course it should.


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[PatHead]

I've no idea what happens. Do the assets get returned to BDO? Do the new club have to pay compensation to BDO?
The licence to re enter the In Div 3 was on condition that Craig Whyte was not being involved. Will it be revoked? (Don't answer that)
Should it be? Of course it should.


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but will the SFA? More chance of Christmas be cancelled

[Ozyhibby]

but will the SFA? More chance of Christmas be cancelled

The SFA's part in this is what I'm most interested in. Hopefully the the Sevco 7 don't go down without a fight.


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[CropleyWasGod]

It was old Rangers who had a vote.


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You sure?

At the time of the vote, old Rangers were in liquidation, and all of their assets had been transferred to Sevco. One of those assets was the share in the SPL. Therefore only Sevco could have the vote IMO.

Thinking it through, why would old Rangers even want a vote? By that time, they were not a football club.
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[CropleyWasGod]

I've no idea what happens. Do the assets get returned to BDO? Do the new club have to pay compensation to BDO?
The licence to re enter the In Div 3 was on condition that Craig Whyte was not being involved. Will it be revoked? (Don't answer that)
Should it be? Of course it should.


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If the criminal charges are proven, it will them be up to BDO to raise a civil case.

They have the right to ask to have the transfer cancelled, and the assets returned to old Rangers. However, that's unlikely. It's probably too messy; the assets are at least 2 companies away, for one thing.

It would be more likely that they would sue the main players for the money.

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[Bostonhibby]

It looks like they are being charged with exactly what non sevconians said they were doing at the time. [emoji3]


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Agree, and they will emerge relatively unscathed as an institution this time around simply because the same culture exists in the corridors of Scottish football politics and if all else fails, they are the people-that usually does it.

Got to love what their two previous messiahs almost got away with though.

[lucky]

If they are found guilty of this it has to put a huge question mark over the legitimacy of the company and why they should even be allowed to continue within Scottish football. They were let into the league without the necessary 3 years accounts which looks like being a massive mistake. IF proved guilty the whole existence and continuation of the company must surely be in doubt. At the very least the SPFL can't allow it to continue it's membership, or am I getting ahead of myself? If a company is fraudulently set up what happens to it? Anyone??

Your in a different planet if you think Scottish Football is going to kill off Rangers. The company stuff is irrelevant the SPLF & SFA just won't kill off half the old firm. I doubt that even Hibs would vote them out of existence. Scottish football needs them as it needs all its big clubs

[ehf]

Interesting stuff...

Key point here is that Whyte (allegedly) refunded £137,500 of the exclusivity fee paid by Green's consortium to Duff & Phelps. That's dynamite, and there's no way way this would be on the indictment if the CPS did not think they could prove it.

[CropleyWasGod]

The SFA's part in this is what I'm most interested in. Hopefully the the Sevco 7 don't go down without a fight.


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One also wonders if SDM will be a witness. That might be interesting :)

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[Ozyhibby]

If the criminal charges are proven, it will them be up to BDO to raise a civil case.

They have the right to ask to have the transfer cancelled, and the assets returned to old Rangers. However, that's unlikely. It's probably too messy; the assets are at least 2 companies away, for one thing.

It would be more likely that they would sue the main players for the money.

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So even though both of these companies are accused of aquiring the assets illegally, they would be allowed to keep them?
And BDO would be left chasing Whyte and Green for some money?
Duff and Phelps malpractice insurance may cover it but surely they would want the assets recovered?


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[Jack]

You sure?

At the time of the vote, old Rangers were in liquidation, and all of their assets had been transferred to Sevco. One of those assets was the share in the SPL. Therefore only Sevco could have the vote IMO.

Thinking it through, why would old Rangers even want a vote? By that time, they were not a football club.
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I was under the impression that the SPL share automatically reverted to the SPL in the event of liquidation. If that's the case then Rangers (old) couldn't transfer it and therefore sevco never had it to vote with.

[Keith_M]

You sure?

At the time of the vote, old Rangers were in liquidation, and all of their assets had been transferred to Sevco. One of those assets was the share in the SPL. Therefore only Sevco could have the vote IMO.

Thinking it through, why would old Rangers even want a vote? By that time, they were not a football club.
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The fact remains, no matter how you dice it, that there were two entities in the room claiming to be Rangers.

One of them must have been lying.

[Spike Mandela]

Your in a different planet if you think Scottish Football is going to kill off Rangers. The company stuff is irrelevant the SPLF & SFA just won't kill off half the old firm. I doubt that even Hibs would vote them out of existence. Scottish football needs them as it needs all its big clubs

So no matter the criminality, no matter the illegality and no matter the sheer illogical mess of it all Rangers FC floats about in the ether like an untouchable entity.

Are they just an omnipresent figment of faith like God?

[1875godsgift]

So no matter the criminality, no matter the illegality and no matter the sheer illogical mess of it all Rangers FC floats about in the ether like an untouchable entity.

Are they just an omnipresent figment of faith like God?

No, they're like a steaming piece of s***e that always floats to the top.

[CropleyWasGod]

.

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[CropleyWasGod]

I was under the impression that the SPL share automatically reverted to the SPL in the event of liquidation. If that's the case then Rangers (old) couldn't transfer it and therefore sevco never had it to vote with.
That's the SFA licence you're thinking about, no?

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[CropleyWasGod]

So even though both of these companies are accused of aquiring the assets illegally, they would be allowed to keep them?
And BDO would be left chasing Whyte and Green for some money?
Duff and Phelps malpractice insurance may cover it but surely they would want the assets recovered?


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The new companies would end up having to sell the assets. I can't see any way that they could do otherwise.

Not sure that BDO would want anything other than cash.

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[Spike Mandela]

The new companies would end up having to sell the assets. I can't see any way that they could do otherwise.

Not sure that BDO would want anything other than cash.

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The establishment and judiciary will have the whole outcome choreographed to Rangers advantage just as the pre pack administration made it simple for them in liquidation.

They will find a way.

[Real Emerald]

Your in a different planet if you think Scottish Football is going to kill off Rangers. The company stuff is irrelevant the SPLF & SFA just won't kill off half the old firm. I doubt that even Hibs would vote them out of existence. Scottish football needs them as it needs all its big clubs
No, I'm quite aware of what will happen but the question needs to be asked. If the SPFL/SFA have a set of rules and criteria for a football club to satisfy in order to join and its proved in a criminal court they lied, set the company up by fraud, how can they keep their right to continue membership?:confused:

[CropleyWasGod]

No, I'm quite aware of what will happen but the question needs to be asked. If the SPFL/SFA have a set of rules and criteria for a football club to satisfy in order to join and its proved in a criminal court they lied, set the company up by fraud, how can they keep their right to continue membership?:confused:
The club's defence will be that the people accused have nothing to do with the club as it is now.





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[Real Emerald]

The club's defence will be that the people accused have nothing to do with the club as it is now.





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I knew that would be the answer, the old victims again nonsense. If they got their membership through alleged lies and (huge) fraud, in any other organisation that would result in expulsion.

[Keith_M]

The club's defence will be that the people accused have nothing to do with the club as it is now.



I think that's a fair argument but the counter argument would be that the Club calling itself Rangers only exist because of fraud, therefore should not be allowed to retain the SFA licence they fraudulently received.

I think the SFA/SPFL will be quite happy to overlook that and allow them to continue as if none of it ever happened.



On another note: I'm now convinced that Craig Whyte is not skint after all, as many News Outlets would have you believe. My evidence is the Arm Candy (http://i3.dailyrecord.co.uk/incoming/article6646696.ece/ALTERNATES/s615b/JS74576323.jpg) that accompanied him to the High Court. That kinda girl doesn't hang about with poor people. I'm not the least bit jealous.... ;-)

[Moulin Yarns]

The Hootsmon is reporting the charges this morning.

http://www.scotsman.com/news/scotland/top-stories/details-of-charges-against-craig-whyte-and-charles-green-revealed-1-3918715#axzz3ooCxYH00

Any of the experts know what it means about the Wavetower Bank of Scotland deal? Why it contravenes the Companies Act?

[Bostonhibby]

The club's defence will be that the people accused have nothing to do with the club as it is now.





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It's the old "bad men did it and then they ran away defence" again - Scottish football authorities are happy to see it pleaded by the yam and the now defunct Glasgow rangers.

To be fair you could hardly call the last four of five messiahs to land at Ibrox good men and Vladimir Romanov has taken villainy and exploitation of the gullible to another level entirely.

[Glesgahibby]

No, I'm quite aware of what will happen but the question needs to be asked. If the SPFL/SFA have a set of rules and criteria for a football club to satisfy in order to join and its proved in a criminal court they lied, set the company up by fraud, how can they keep their right to continue membership?:confused:
This is the key😋
non bias journalists,social media and time will eventually force this issue to the surface.
how long it will take does not matter because the truth will out eventually :wink:

[Alan62]

Magnificent reporting from the Scotsman, including this dreadful zeugma: "Mr Whyte, of Lancashire, arrived at the legal complex with long hair, a smart single breasted suit in the company of a woman."

Totally agree that the 'arm candy' isn't the type to hang around with penniless punters. Old Craigy has a nice we stash somewhere.

Think there's an interesting twist on the failure to disclose his disqualification as a company director to the SFA's 'fit and proper' hearing. Frankly if a convicted tax fraudster is 'fit and proper' then it's debatable whether or not a previous (and presumably served) ban from being a company director would have had any impact on the SFA's test. Especially if that man was a Rangers man and had off the radar wealth.

[Eyrie]

Is it just me or does anyone else think Whyte looks like Rik Mayall?

[s.a.m]

Is it just me or does anyone else think Whyte looks like Rik Mayall?

:greengrin Absolutely full-on Alan *******.

[Jim44]

It's the old "bad men did it and then they ran away defence" again - Scottish football authorities are happy to see it pleaded by the yam and the now defunct Glasgow rangers.

To be fair you could hardly call the last four of five messiahs to land at Ibrox good men and Vladimir Romanov has taken villainy and exploitation of the gullible to another level entirely.

Sadly this is the case and no matter who the villains are of were, the top priority will be the well being and future stability of the football club.

[marinello59]

Sadly this is the case and no matter who the villains are of were, the top priority will be the well being and future stability of the football club.

As we saw with Hearts that applies to any club though. It's really hard to actually kill off a football club in the UK. Leeds and Portsmouth spring to mind as well.

[Lago]

Sadly this is the case and no matter who the villains are of were, the top priority will be the well being and future stability of the football club.
Yip deep clean and sanitising to follow from various media sources.

[Betty Boop]

Eye Candy eh?

[greenginger]

JohnJames saying King has organised a Foundation of Hearts type scheme, pulling in direct debits from supporters and the Rangers Trust in return for shares to be issued in the future .

https://johnjamessite.wordpress.com/2015/10/23/junk-bonds-on-the-fly/

[CropleyWasGod]

JohnJames saying King has organised a Foundation of Hearts type scheme, pulling in direct debits from supporters and the Rangers Trust in return for shares to be issued in the future .

https://johnjamessite.wordpress.com/2015/10/23/junk-bonds-on-the-fly/

Working my way through his negativity about such a scheme, I think it might be a decent earner for them.

If Hearts can raise £120k per month, Rangers might be able to get about £4-500k. Not to be sniffed at.

[greenginger]

Working my way through his negativity about such a scheme, I think it might be a decent earner for them.

If Hearts can raise £120k per month, Rangers might be able to get about £4-500k. Not to be sniffed at.


True, but is it legal for a PLC company to have its future pre-sold without a share holders vote at least.

[CropleyWasGod]

True, but is it legal for a PLC company to have its future pre-sold without a share holders vote at least.

Fair point.

But it wouldn't take much fancy-footwork to set up an HSL-type company to feed in the cash in the short term, and then deal with the future implications when they're... koff... back in the Premiership.

As we know, the ordinary punters aren't interested in returns on investments. 20k of them putting in £20 a month to "save wir club" ?... nae borra, big man.

[PatHead]

Wonder when the fans will waken up and smell the coffee that King is a convicted fraudster.

Maybe if it looks like Hibs are going to give them a title race and it won't be over by February? Perhaps they will then start looking for his £30m he was bringing in (that we all know he doesn't have).

I also wonder which one of the MSM will be the first to break ranks and question something?

[jacomo]

On another note: I'm now convinced that Craig Whyte is not skint after all, as many News Outlets would have you believe. My evidence is the Arm Candy (http://i3.dailyrecord.co.uk/incoming/article6646696.ece/ALTERNATES/s615b/JS74576323.jpg) that accompanied him to the High Court. That kinda girl doesn't hang about with poor people. I'm not the least bit jealous.... ;-)

Wait and see her reaction when the cheque bounces.

:wink:

[CropleyWasGod]

Eye Candy eh?

Chivalry is not dead :greengrin

[Keith_M]

Eye Candy eh?


Nope, Arm Candy


:wink:

[hibs0666]

JohnJames saying King has organised a Foundation of Hearts type scheme, pulling in direct debits from supporters and the Rangers Trust in return for shares to be issued in the future .

https://johnjamessite.wordpress.com/2015/10/23/junk-bonds-on-the-fly/

I see that bloke has been outed as a Celtic fan.

[Ozyhibby]

Fair point.

But it wouldn't take much fancy-footwork to set up an HSL-type company to feed in the cash in the short term, and then deal with the future implications when they're... koff... back in the Premiership.

As we know, the ordinary punters aren't interested in returns on investments. 20k of them putting in £20 a month to "save wir club" ?... nae borra, big man.

It looks very similar to the sort of share issue the yams had pre admin. Without shareholder consent that's all it can be.


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[Cropley10]

I see that bloke has been outed as a Celtic fan.

has he? got a link?

Funny thing with Huns, anyone who tries to point out whats happening isn't one of them Charlie couldn't quite believe it and now the King is enjoying the same blindness.

[CropleyWasGod]

It looks very similar to the sort of share issue the yams had pre admin. Without shareholder consent that's all it can be.


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Ach, where's your creative spirit?

:greengrin

[greenginger]

Fair point.

But it wouldn't take much fancy-footwork to set up an HSL-type company to feed in the cash in the short term, and then deal with the future implications when they're... koff... back in the Premiership.

As we know, the ordinary punters aren't interested in returns on investments. 20k of them putting in £20 a month to "save wir club" ?... nae borra, big man.


I think they will have a bit of recruiting to do.

I guess The Rangers Supporters Trust was the main organisation for the fans contributions. Chris Graham is a board member there and got 24 hours on the Ibrox board before past indiscretions came to light.

I have had a hunt for their accounts. They are actually the Rangers Supporters Society Ltd, registered under the Societies Acts 1965-78.

file:///C:/Documents%20and%20Settings/Owner/My%20Documents/Downloads/Annual_Return_and_Accounts.pdf

Latest accounts to April 2014 show income as £17,401 and expenditure of £ 18,125, a loss of £724. Their revenue account has £19,193 in it.

Their fund raising for shares purchase has raised £ 310,715.00 and they have £ 7123 in the bank for further share acquisitions.

All this info. is at 5th April 2014, but they were formed in 2003 so they will need step up big time if they are to save the good ship Sevco.

[greenginger]

Try this link.





file:///C:/Documents%20and%20Settings/Owner/My%20Documents/Downloads/Annual_Return_and_Accounts.pdf

[Keith_M]

Try this link.

file:///C:/Documents%20and%20Settings/Owner/My%20Documents/Downloads/Annual_Return_and_Accounts.pdf


That's a link to a file on your own Computer, Ginger

[greenginger]

That's a link to a file on your own Computer, Ginger


Yeah, I bookmarked the download and when the first link did'nt work I tried my bookmarked page.

Did'nt work either.

[Ozyhibby]

I think Rangers First have been a bit more successful and have about £500k to invest in shares but have not been able to since the delisting. They would need to change their rules if they are going to just donate it to the club though, as buying shares just gives money to the seller. The club can't issue new share just now.
And £500k would only last about 10 days anyway.


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[Keith_M]

Yeah, I bookmarked the download and when the first link did'nt work I tried my bookmarked page.

Did'nt work either.


It's all this new fangled technology mate, it's harder than people think


:wink:

[greenginger]

https://johnjamessite.wordpress.com/2015/10/25/explosive-rumour/


According to Johnjames the begging bowl is out.

Trouble for Sevco is , that to get the fans pledging big time, they have to admit its a crisis.

[Moulin Yarns]

Did anyone see something in a tabloid newspaper this morning saying Craig Whyte is getting legal aid?

[Jonnyboy]

Did anyone see something in a tabloid newspaper this morning saying Craig Whyte is getting legal aid?

Just googled it and found this

http://www.dailyrecord.co.uk/news/scottish-news/ex-rangers-owner-craig-whyte-6704006

[CropleyWasGod]

Did anyone see something in a tabloid newspaper this morning saying Craig Whyte is getting legal aid?
Yep.

AFAIK, he's been or is soon to be sequestrated. In that light, he's entitled to it.

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[HoboHarry]

Yep.

AFAIK, he's been or is soon to be sequestrated. In that light, he's entitled to it.

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Rangers fans have wanted to do that to him for ages. Oh wait that's something else........

:greengrin

[greenginger]

http://www.dailyrecord.co.uk/opinion/sport/keith-jackson-rangers-no-longer-6703468


Keith Jackson in the Daily ****** asking questions about where the money is going to come from.

All very low key, obviously don't want to spook the People.

[Kato]

http://www.dailyrecord.co.uk/opinion/sport/keith-jackson-rangers-no-longer-6703468


Keith Jackson in the Daily ****** asking questions about where the money is going to come from.

All very low key, obviously don't want to spook the People.

"Rangers are no longer a freakshow...."


...so it's just an opinion piece.

[Ozyhibby]

All very gentle that. Second last paragraph is the most important.

'One thing is certain, Rangers require money from somewhere. And soon.'




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[JimBHibees]

http://www.dailyrecord.co.uk/opinion/sport/keith-jackson-rangers-no-longer-6703468


Keith Jackson in the Daily ****** asking questions about where the money is going to come from.

All very low key, obviously don't want to spook the People.

But he will be able to claim another sports reporter of the year award on the back of it. :rolleyes:

[greenginger]

But he will be able to claim another sports reporter of the year award on the back of it. :rolleyes:


Club spend £ 24 million, Club income £ 16 million = Deficit.

Is there a Nobel Prize for Arithmetic he could win. ? :greengrin

[Ozyhibby]

But he will be able to claim another sports reporter of the year award on the back of it. :rolleyes:

Preparing the ground for the Record to say we warned you all along that Dave King was a wrong 'un.


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[bingo70]

Club spend £ 24 million, Club income £ 16 million = Deficit.

Is there a Nobel Prize for Arithmetic he could win. ? :greengrin

He says in that article the shortfall will likely be met with soft loans from king and couple of other people.

That seems the likely scenario to me, no chance they'll go into admin again anytime soon imo.

[brog]

He says in that article the shortfall will likely be met with soft loans from king and couple of other people.

That seems the likely scenario to me, no chance they'll go into admin again anytime soon imo.

There's more chance of them going into admin than of getting money from King IMO. The thing is, they've been looking for a loan from anywhere without success until now. Will King's buddies continue to divi up when the man himself & others obviously won't? How long do they continue to throw good money after bad? Lots more fun to come!

[StevieC]

http://www.dailyrecord.co.uk/opinion/sport/keith-jackson-rangers-no-longer-6703468


Keith Jackson in the Daily ****** asking questions about where the money is going to come from.

All very low key, obviously don't want to spook the People.

That article smacks of "I'm on your side, gonie let me in oan some o' yer secrets fir ma paper?"

"The truth of the matter is no-where near as dramatic. Yes, Rangers will need more money to get through the current campaign and that cash - probably something between £2m and £3m - will almost certainly come in the form of further soft loans from King and co-investors George Letham, Douglas Park, George Letham and George Taylor."

How does he know "how dramatic" the money issues are?
How does he know how much they need?
"Will almost certainly" sounds like "there is NO other option".

I could dissect the rest of the article along a similar vein, but frankly I've got better things to do with my time. :greengrin

[PatHead]

Probably just preparing them for the begging bowl which is about to come out. It will be the first stage of MSM campaign for more money.

[jacomo]

There's more chance of them going into admin than of getting money from King IMO. The thing is, they've been looking for a loan from anywhere without success until now. Will King's buddies continue to divi up when the man himself & others obviously won't? How long do they continue to throw good money after bad? Lots more fun to come!

King is entitled to minimise his own exposure and try every other avenue first, before putting in more of his own cash. Does he have a few mill to put in? Who knows, but he's certainly bragged about his wealth enough.

However, this is undeniably a long way from the 'over-investment' he promised when he was battling to gain control of the club.

[Smartie]

King is entitled to minimise his own exposure and try every other avenue first, before putting in more of his own cash. Does he have a few mill to put in? Who knows, but he's certainly bragged about his wealth enough.

However, this is undeniably a long way from the 'over-investment' he promised when he was battling to gain control of the club.

Are there not issues with the "mobility" of King's cash?

I seem to remember there being issues (tax-related?) with his wealth being based in South Africa and the difficulty he would have bringing it to the UK?

[Spike Mandela]

http://www.dailyrecord.co.uk/opinion/sport/keith-jackson-rangers-no-longer-6703468


Keith Jackson in the Daily ****** asking questions about where the money is going to come from.

All very low key, obviously don't want to spook the People.

A very very low key piece which sounds to me like it's straight from Rangers PR and is preparing the readership of this Rangers fanzine for some sort of strategy announcement in the next week or so.

It will probably announce another raft of 'investment' from King (ie a loan) but somewhere stuck in the flowery blurb will be some way of the fans putting in their money.

I think they are skint.

[PatHead]

Are there not issues with the "mobility" of King's cash?

I seem to remember there being issues (tax-related?) with his wealth being based in South Africa and the difficulty he would have bringing it to the UK?


Think the problem with the "mobility" of the cash is he doesn't have it anymore. If he did have it he would have known about the problems in getting money out of South Africa. Remember this guy is a glib and shameless liar.

[steakbake]

A very very low key piece which sounds to me like it's straight from Rangers PR and is preparing the readership of this Rangers fanzine for some sort of strategy announcement in the next week or so.

It will probably announce another raft of 'investment' from King (ie a loan) but somewhere stuck in the flowery blurb will be some way of the fans putting in their money.

I think they are skint.

They're gearing up to ask The People (aka Real Rangers Men) to stump up some cash. Thing is, there's no way that they'll be able to fund the running of The Rangers from the pocket money of a few of their fans - or at least not in the long run. When King came in, he made it clear that the club needed serious investment.

Funny, many of the bloggers who have been panned over the last few months/years have made the same point: it's a loss making business with no credit line. King said he would "over invest" but there's no money coming forward. The likes of Jackson now asking gentle questions is a bit late. Day one when King came in, they should have been asking these questions: what's the plan, where's the investment going, how will ends be met... but no, instead we've just had the fawning media and the Warburton Revolution (TM) and the infiltration of puff pieces that Level 5 PR Ltd have approved of.

They are skint. Depending on what happens with Cheerful Charlie, they might find that fans are simply pouring money in to pay Green's legal bill.

[ancient hibee]

Similarly if they do raise some cash from soft loans(soft in the head more likely)any future share issue is going to be hard going if it's just going to be used to pay back the loans.

[Ozyhibby]

http://www.philmacgiollabhain.ie/an-off-the-radar-crisis/


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[steakbake]

http://www.philmacgiollabhain.ie/an-off-the-radar-crisis/


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I think the stock response is usually "he's got an agenda". Strangely, though, I kind of trust MacGiollabhain to be at least asking the questions that journos like Jackson are only now just beginning to hint at.

[Hibee87]

Ive no idea who this guy is, or how credible he is. BUT if he is correct and the rangers don't pay their full wages what is the punishment MEANT to be for this?

I seem to remember after hearts and the first rangers (r.i.p) saga the rules were changed and there was sanctions against if it happened, and if it occurred concurrently then it was worse each time. :confused:

[Brunswickbill]

Ive no idea who this guy is, or how credible he is. BUT if he is correct and the rangers don't pay their full wages what is the punishment MEANT to be for this?

I seem to remember after hearts and the first rangers (r.i.p) saga the rules were changed and there was sanctions against if it happened, and if it occurred concurrently then it was worse each time. :confused:

Rule E19 Club in remuneration default is not allowed to register players until default has been resolved

spfl.co.uk/docs/067_324__therulesofthespfl_1375800603.pdf

[Hibee87]

Rule E19 Club in remuneration default is not allowed to register players until default has been resolved

spfl.co.uk/docs/067_324__therulesofthespfl_1375800603.pdf

Ah right cheers, knew it was something :aok:

[Thecat23]

No dough at Sevco, or there is no dough at Sevco, NOOO DOOUGH AT SEEEVCO or there is no dough at Sevco!!!!

[southsider]

No dough at Sevco, or there is no dough at Sevco, NOOO DOOUGH AT SEEEVCO or there is no dough at Sevco!!!!
Now THAT is a perfect song for Sunday. Their cash has disappeared quicker than Scott Allan's first team chances.

[Thecat23]

Now THAT is a perfect song for Sunday. Their cash has disappeared quicker than Scott Allan's first team chances.

Yep, the cash does seem to be vanishing and pretty quickly too.

[jacomo]

http://www.philmacgiollabhain.ie/an-off-the-radar-crisis/


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Whoop. I see the 'Phil Ma Gab' random phrase generator has churned out another missive.

Stenographers. Highly placed source. Cunningham (why, FFS, why?)

There are several sentences that I just don't understand. For example, is he saying that Rangers have or have not set aside money for tax bills, because the words and the tone are at cross purposes.

[CropleyWasGod]

Whoop. I see the 'Phil Ma Gab' random phrase generator has churned out another missive.

Stenographers. Highly placed source. Cunningham (why, FFS, why?)

There are several sentences that I just don't understand. For example, is he saying that Rangers have or have not set aside money for tax bills, because the words and the tone are at cross purposes.
That last bit had me confused as well.

I think he is saying that they have set aside tax money. Either he or JJ has referred in the past to an "escrow" account for tax monies.

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[Mcpakeisgod]

I can't believe this is still going

[Benny Brazil]

http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/football/34653785

Seems glib and shameless has been writing a few strongly worded letters to Sports Direct - that'll teach them to mess with him.

[PatHead]

http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/football/34653785

Seems glib and shameless has been writing a few strongly worded letters to Sports Direct - that'll teach them to mess with him.

Wonder if he asked them to waive the £5m loan. What a hypocrite criticising anyone business ethics.

[Kato]

http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/football/34653785

Seems glib and shameless has been writing a few strongly worded letters to Sports Direct - that'll teach them to mess with him.

"I have sent letters to Sports Direct in my capacity as a director of Rangers Retail Limited taking them to task for poor business practices and corporate governance failures."

King is an expert in that field.

Mike Ashley will be really, scared at being sent a letter.

[steakbake]

http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/football/34653785

Seems glib and shameless has been writing a few strongly worded letters to Sports Direct - that'll teach them to mess with him.

National broadcaster releases PR statement on behalf of TRFC shocker... you can't buy exposure like that. I mean, they were using Level5 PR to get mentions from friendly journalists to pump season ticket sales but from what you read, they just can't afford that anymore. Thank god for public broadcasting!

[PatHead]

Karma is a bitch. Don't know when it was in the paper but love it.

https://scontent-lhr3-1.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-xlf1/v/t1.0-9/12190823_1030718970314431_1429894720922580943_n.jp g?oh=f74cfa57023fa48ea4ad6dade2ffa102&oe=56D0198D

[greenginger]

http://www.dailyrecord.co.uk/sport/football/football-news/rangers-chairman-dave-king-says-6717065


Diversionary tactics by King. Get the mob to rage against Ashley instead of their Chairman.

[Spike Mandela]

http://www.dailyrecord.co.uk/sport/football/football-news/rangers-chairman-dave-king-says-6717065


Diversionary tactics by King. Get the mob to rage against Ashley instead of their Chairman.

My thoughts exactly.

[greenginger]

My thoughts exactly.


JohnJames is not impressed either. :greengrin



https://johnjamessite.wordpress.com/2015/10/27/dave-king-his-integrity-knows-no-start/#comments

[O'Rourke3]

http://www.dailyrecord.co.uk/sport/football/football-news/rangers-chairman-dave-king-says-6717065


Diversionary tactics by King. Get the mob to rage against Ashley instead of their Chairman.

All they now need is John Brown outside the stadium on the steps letting the crowd understand who they should seek out and attack. "Who are emmm this person, we should be know"

[Ozyhibby]

https://www.youtube.com/embed/NsnSLSZevoY


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[Kato]

https://www.youtube.com/embed/NsnSLSZevoY



King had one eye on the pot and the other up the chimney (and seems to talk a load of peggish.)

[Ozyhibby]

http://www.philmacgiollabhain.ie/time-difference/


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[steakbake]

All they now need is John Brown outside the stadium on the steps letting the crowd understand who they should seek out and attack. "Who are emmm this person, we should be know"

Haha pretty much... Hopefully this is lining up the "a big boy done it and ran away" excuse.

IF this is the case and they haven't got a pot to pish in, the blazers will be bricking it. How would they handle an insolvency event? Expect hilarious contortion acts as TRFC/SFA/Media finally make an argument that they're a new club after all and should have only a 15 point deduction, not a 25 point one if it were the case that they're the same club as the pre-2012 edition.

Doncaster himself said they are the same club... I wonder if his position would change if it looked like they weren't going to be "getting back to where they belong" in the top league any time soon.

[CropleyWasGod]

Haha pretty much... Hopefully this is lining up the "a big boy done it and ran away" excuse.

IF this is the case and they haven't got a pot to pish in, the blazers will be bricking it. How would they handle an insolvency event? Expect hilarious contortion acts as TRFC/SFA/Media finally make an argument that they're a new club after all and should have only a 15 point deduction, not a 25 point one if it were the case that they're the same club as the pre-2012 edition.

Doncaster himself said they are the same club... I wonder if his position would change if it looked like they weren't going to be "getting back to where they belong" in the top league any time soon.

Here is the relevant rule:-

Where a Club, whether owned and operated by the same or a different Member, suffers or is subject to an Insolvency Event which results in a deduction of points in terms of these Rules and within 5 years of the date of such Insolvency Event suffers or is subject to a further Insolvency Event which is not part of the same Insolvency Process as the Insolvency Event then suffered, the points deduction applicable in terms of Rules E1 in respect of that second or further Insolvency Event, shall be 25 points with the 15 points in Rules E2 and E3 being 25 Points

The highlighted bit, IMO, is the damning bit.

Remember too, that there would be a 25 point penalty the following season as well. :greengrin

[Ronniekirk]

I know from fans involved that there have been meetings to galvanise the biggest Rangers Supporters Associations and try to look at ways of the Rangers Trust raising more money so they clearly are needing investment and not getting it you would assume so turning to the fans ,hence the media profile to turn fans even more against Ashley and then appeal to those fans to save the club by putting in money . can't see them I wanting to incur penalty points and take their chances in the play off ,unless they are confident enough to think they will be more than twenty five points ahead of us at end of the season


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[Ozyhibby]

I know from fans involved that there have been meetings to galvanise the biggest Rangers Supporters Associations and try to look at ways of the Rangers Trust raising more money so they clearly are needing investment and not getting it you would assume so turning to the fans ,hence the media profile to turn fans even more against Ashley and then appeal to those fans to save the club by putting in money . can't see them I wanting to incur penalty points and take their chances in the play off ,unless they are confident enough to think they will be more than twenty five points ahead of us at end of the season


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Which is all very well but it's a bit hard to raise money from the fans when they know it's just going to fund Charlie's legal team.
Say what you like about Phil Macgiollabhain, but this does appear to be following the narrative set out in his blog.


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