Generic Sevco / Rangers meltdown thread

[Billy Whizz]

http://www.philmacgiollabhain.ie/the-problems-of-an-underfunded-hostile-takeover/


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Ozy, is the cash flow problems on this article nor worse that most experts were reckoning?

[PatHead]

Ozy, is the cash flow problems on this article nor worse that most experts were reckoning?

Hope so

[Ozyhibby]

Ozy, is the cash flow problems on this article nor worse that most experts were reckoning?

Up until now most estimates were that they had money till November. Not sure why it would now be brought forward. Either way, they still appear to need external finance. Doesn't look like the 3 bears are up for lending anymore and there is little chance of a share issue while there are ongoing court cases casting doubt on the ownership of assets (that may also make admin difficult).
In short Billy, I've not got a clue but my fingers are crossed. We could do with a break.


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[Billy Whizz]

Up until now most estimates were that they had money till November. Not sure why it would now be brought forward. Either way, they still appear to need external finance. Doesn't look like the 3 bears are up for lending anymore and there is little chance of a share issue while there are ongoing court cases casting doubt on the ownership of assets (that may also make admin difficult).
In short Billy, I've not got a clue but my fingers are crossed. We could do with a break.


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November was what I had read, but it looks like they are going to need some serious funding sometime soon. However the more they win, the more fans will roll up to Ibrox for the home games. A nice little defeat sometime soon wouldn't go amiss

[Billy Whizz]

Hope so

Pray so

[Ozyhibby]

November was what I had read, but it looks like they are going to need some serious funding sometime soon. However the more they win, the more fans will roll up to Ibrox for the home games. A nice little defeat sometime soon wouldn't go amiss

Even if they sell out every week they will still run out of cash. They have almost burnt through the season ticket money already.


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[jonty]

Ally and The Rangers agree to terminate contractearly , dave king claims Hibs approached The Rangers over Scott Allan and The Rangers to win premiership next season.


http://www.scotsman.com/sport/football/spfl-lower-divisions/ally-mccoist-agrees-to-terminate-rangers-contract-1-3883084

Deluded.

[Viva_Palmeiras]

Ally and The Rangers agree to terminate contractearly , dave king claims Hibs approached The Rangers over Scott Allan and The Rangers to win premiership next season.


http://www.scotsman.com/sport/football/spfl-lower-divisions/ally-mccoist-agrees-to-terminate-rangers-contract-1-3883084

Deluded.

Didn't see the bit about SA - retracted?

[Oscar T Grouch]

Ally and The Rangers agree to terminate contractearly , dave king claims Hibs approached The Rangers over Scott Allan and The Rangers to win premiership next season.


http://www.scotsman.com/sport/football/spfl-lower-divisions/ally-mccoist-agrees-to-terminate-rangers-contract-1-3883084

Deluded.

Can only see the story about AMcC nowt there about SA or winning premiership next year.

[grunt]

Raman Bhardwaj‏@STVRaman 43m43 minutes ago (https://twitter.com/STVRaman/status/641944207045861376) Dave King claims Hibs came to Rangers asking if they wanted to do business to buy Scott Allan.

[hibs0666]

Raman Bhardwaj‏@STVRaman 43m43 minutes ago (https://twitter.com/STVRaman/status/641944207045861376) Dave King claims Hibs came to Rangers asking if they wanted to do business to buy Scott Allan.

It's great of King to acknowledge that we stitched them up a cracker.

[CropleyWasGod]

Raman Bhardwaj‏@STVRaman 43m43 minutes ago (https://twitter.com/STVRaman/status/641944207045861376) Dave King claims Hibs came to Rangers asking if they wanted to do business to buy Scott Allan.

... and the follow-up?

Rangers... "yes, please."

Hibs.... "thought so. Beat it."

[greenginger]

Raman Bhardwaj‏@STVRaman 43m43 minutes ago (https://twitter.com/STVRaman/status/641944207045861376) Dave King claims Hibs came to Rangers asking if they wanted to do business to buy Scott Allan.


Would expect nothing less from King. He is a glib and shameless liar after all and he needs excuses to keep the knuckle draggers thinking of things other than where the money is going to come fro to keep SS sevco afloat.

[Jim44]

Raman Bhardwaj‏@STVRaman 43m43 minutes ago (https://twitter.com/STVRaman/status/641944207045861376) Dave King claims Hibs came to Rangers asking if they wanted to do business to buy Scott Allan.

They will probably rise above it, but, if I were in Dempster and Stubbs' shoes, I would be all over that like a ton of bricks. Don't let King have the last word.

[Baldy Foghorn]

They will probably rise above it, but, if I were in Dempster and Stubbs' shoes, I would be all over that like a ton of bricks. Don't let King have the last word.

Shameless liar Mr King......Thought they would have more pertinent things to worry about at the moment......:rolleyes:

[Ozyhibby]

They will probably rise above it, but, if I were in Dempster and Stubbs' shoes, I would be all over that like a ton of bricks. Don't let King have the last word.

I think they probably have to respond given their stance over the summer.
Given that the club are trying to rebuild the trust between the club and the fans, they can't allow this to go unremarked upon.


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[Ozyhibby]

Shameless liar Mr King......Thought they would have more pertinent things to worry about at the moment......:rolleyes:

They do which is probably why he has said it. He knows it will keep our hapless press busy for a few days while he is here.


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[CropleyWasGod]

They do which is probably why he has said it. He knows it will keep our hapless press busy for a few days while he is here.


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It's not on the STV site, and only been Tweeted by Bhardwaj.

I'm guessing that, if DK did say it, he's retracted it.

In a normal environment, other media people would now be asking him about it. In other words, don't expect anyone to follow it up. :greengrin

[marinello59]

It's not on the STV site, and only been Tweeted by Bhardwaj.

I'm guessing that, if DK did say it, he's retracted it.

In a normal environment, other media people would now be asking him about it. In other words, don't expect anyone to follow it up. :greengrin

It's on the STV news app and he is adamant the initial approach came from Hibs and then our stance changed.

[marinello59]

FROM STV NEWS APP

Hibs made initial approach to Rangers over Scott Allan, Dave King claims
Thu, 10 Sep 2015 14:18:00 BST


Rangers chairman Dave King has claimed that Hibernian made the initial approach to the Ibrox club over the transfer of Scott Allan.

Highly-rated midfielder Allan moved from Hibernian to Celtic in August after weeks of uncertainty over the player’s future.

Rangers had made multiple bids for the 23-year-old before his switch to Glasgow’s East End but Hibernian rejected their offers, insisting they would not sell to a Championship promotion rival.

When confirming that Allan had submitted a written transfer request after a second Rangers offer was knocked back, Hibs had said that they had rejected two "unwelcome and uninvited" bids for the player. The club explained that they had "no wish to transfer a valuable player to strengthen a major rival in the battle to win the Championship and gain promotion to the Premiership".

Now, King has questioned the Edinburgh side’s public stance, claiming that Hibs had contacted Rangers to initiate talks over the possible sale of Allan.

When the initial bid was made from Rangers and rejected by their rivals, he said that the reply surprised him. He added that he was "very, very grateful" to Celtic for eventually signing Allan, saying the Parkhead club had "done Rangers a favour".

"Where I viewed it differently from Hibs was that the initial approach had really come from Hibs," King said.

"They said ‘we know you’re interested in Scott so if you do want to do business let’s do it quickly so we know where we stand’.

"We proceeded to do it quite quickly.

"We were therefore surprised when Hibs’ official response was ‘we will not sell to Rangers under any circumstances whatsoever’.

"We initially took that as a negotiating position to increase the price. It was only after another couple of rounds of negotiations that we understood they were really serious. No matter what we did they were not going to sell to us.

"Therefore, I’m very, very grateful to Celtic for taking him away from Hibs. They did us a favour rather than leaving him behind."

While saying he understood Hibs' eventual stance, he insisted they had initiated discussions.

"The initial one was a discussion with Hibs saying ‘Look, we’ve heard you’re interested in Scott Allan," King repeated. "I think [Rangers director] Paul Murray had made a statement to the media.

"[They said] ‘If you are interested, please come in and do business quickly so we know where we stand and can get a replacement’.

"That’s the invitation that we acted on. Clearly, at a later stage, someone at Hibs [changed that].

"As far as I’m concerned, Rangers acted correctly in all aspects and we’ve put it behind us.

"I’ve had a change of correspondence with them and I think we’re both happy there’s no issue to be carried forward.

Hibernian have yet to respond to King's claim.

[Ozyhibby]

It's not on the STV site, and only been Tweeted by Bhardwaj.

I'm guessing that, if DK did say it, he's retracted it.

In a normal environment, other media people would now be asking him about it. In other words, don't expect anyone to follow it up. :greengrin

http://m.stv.tv/sport/football/clubs/rangers/1328431-hibs-made-initial-approach-to-rangers-over-scott-allan-dave-king-claims/



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[CropleyWasGod]

http://m.stv.tv/sport/football/clubs/rangers/1328431-hibs-made-initial-approach-to-rangers-over-scott-allan-dave-king-claims/



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Your technical capabilities are clearly better than mine. :greengrin Thanks for that.

Okay, I'm with you... Hibs should respond.

[Bostonhibby]

http://m.stv.tv/sport/football/clubs/rangers/1328431-hibs-made-initial-approach-to-rangers-over-scott-allan-dave-king-claims/



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Any possibility King might not be telling the truth? is it in his character?

Another attempt to put a wee bit pressure on Hibs now that the transfer window is shut? Ignore him. He will go away.

[Baldy Foghorn]

Any possibility King might not be telling the truth? is it in his character?

Another attempt to put a wee bit pressure on Hibs now that the transfer window is shut? Ignore him. He will go away.

SFA should be looking at this odious institution, new club, same drivel, same bully boy tactics.......

[Bostonhibby]

SFA should be looking at this odious institution, new club, same drivel, same bully boy tactics.......

More chance of a fish riding a bicycle, especially now that he has been approved as their latest fit and proper person.

[Jim44]

Either we did make an initial approach or we didn't make an initial approach. After all that happened, I think we all want to know from the horse's mouth that we didn't. There's a simple way to get the facts straight.

[SmashinGlass]

Either we did make an initial approach or we didn't make an initial approach. After all that happened, I think we all want to know from the horse's mouth that we didn't. There's a simple way to get the facts straight.

There are no facts to get straight Jim. King is a liar

[Mr White]

I suspect if hibs do respond it'll be another well worded statement. I'd like to see them name dropping the south African judge that labelled king a glib and shameless liar.

[Chibs]

https://encrypted-tbn2.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcRcdNIPcLg0VRsmLoPOMRrIjl71ommdv 3pj7RBqoJaHYQIE5nIt

[Sylar]

More chance of a fish riding a bicycle, especially now that he has been approved as their latest fit and proper person.

Odd you should say that, as this chap lives right outside my office!

15420

[Bostonhibby]

Odd you should say that, as this chap lives right outside my office!

15420
Is it moving or welded to it?

[LaMotta]

Your technical capabilities are clearly better than mine. :greengrin Thanks for that.

Okay, I'm with you... Hibs should respond.


Either we did make an initial approach or we didn't make an initial approach. After all that happened, I think we all want to know from the horse's mouth that we didn't. There's a simple way to get the facts straight.


I suspect if hibs do respond it'll be another well worded statement. I'd like to see them name dropping the south African judge that labelled king a glib and shameless liar.


Dempster has now responded confirming it's rubbish.

Its' on the Record Website now but I cant post links for some reason....

[Jim44]

There are no facts to get straight Jim. King is a liar

I don't doubt that and that's not the worst of his 'frailties'. I just wouldn't like him to have the last word and the issue left hanging in the air. Looking at the other recent post, LD has responded so matter closed as far as I'm concerned.

[grunt]

Sky Sports ScotlandVerified account ‏@ScotlandSky 9m9 minutes ago (https://twitter.com/ScotlandSky/status/641997557992976384) Hibernian Chief Executive Leeann Dempster says Dave King’s claims regarding Scott Allan are "not correct." @HibsOfficial (https://twitter.com/HibsOfficial) @RangersFC (https://twitter.com/RangersFC)

Capital City Press‏@CCP_sport 22m22 minutes ago (https://twitter.com/CCP_sport/status/641994524462567424) Dempster said: "I took the initial call from Rangers. I can confirm that Mr King's version of events is not correct."

[Bishop Hibee]

Dempster has now responded confirming it's rubbish.

Its' on the Record Website now but I cant post links for some reason....

Dempster being quoted on Twitter too. "I can confirm that Mr King's version of events is not correct." More glib and shameless lying from The Lying King.

[CropleyWasGod]

Hibs chief executive Leeann Dempster said: "I took the initial call from Rangers.

SNS Group Dave King claimed Hibs had tried to sell Scott Allan to Rangers
Dave King claimed Hibs had tried to sell Scott Allan to Rangers

"I can confirm that Mr King's version of events is not correct."

Hibs boss Alan Stubbs said: "There is not much I can say to that.

"I think everybody knows what the facts are.

"I have said all along that we do not speak about players from other clubs and Scott Allan is not our player any more. I find the timing of it all a bit strange."

[brog]

It wouldn't surprise me if Hibs contacted Rangers after all the leaks to the press & said something along the lines of, " If you're interested in SA please go through the official channels & make a formal approach/offer. Please stop using the media to undermine our player." The glib & shameless liar then distorts such a statement.

[Mr White]

Excellent. An adequate response delivering the contempt King's statement deserves. If they're doing stuff like this now with a 9 point lead I hate to think what they'll be like when the wheels come off their title bid and we've caught them up.

[CropleyWasGod]

It wouldn't surprise me if Hibs contacted Rangers after all the leaks to the press & said something along the lines of, " If you're interested in SA please go through the official channels & make a formal approach/offer. Please stop using the media to undermine our player." The glib & shameless liar then distorts such a statement.

Or.... given the crap advice SA got from his agent..... it's not beyond possibility that the agent got in touch with Rangers, either telling them porkies that Hibs wanted to sell or, worse, masquerading as Hibs.

Unless there is documentary evidence out there, this is one that isn't going to be proven either way.

[Oscar T Grouch]

Or.... given the crap advice SA got from his agent..... it's not beyond possibility that the agent got in touch with Rangers, either telling them porkies that Hibs wanted to sell or, worse, masquerading as Hibs.

Unless there is documentary evidence out there, this is one that isn't going to be proven either way.

Might not be able to be proven either way but one statement comes from a known tax cheat and someone who a judge called a glib and shameless liar. The other from a well respected and thought of business woman with no records for tax fraud or lying 😉

[greenginger]

Or.... given the crap advice SA got from his agent..... it's not beyond possibility that the agent got in touch with Rangers, either telling them porkies that Hibs wanted to sell or, worse, masquerading as Hibs.

Unless there is documentary evidence out there, this is one that isn't going to be proven either way.


Dempster or King not telling the truth ?

Now, who has got previous for this sort of thing.

[SmashinGlass]

I don't doubt that and that's not the worst of his 'frailties'. I just wouldn't like him to have the last word and the issue left hanging in the air. Looking at the other recent post, LD has responded so matter closed as far as I'm concerned.
Spot on 👍🏻👍🏻

[NAE NOOKIE]

Might not be able to be proven either way but one statement comes from a known tax cheat and someone who a judge called a glib and shameless liar. The other from a well respected and thought of business woman with no records for tax fraud or lying 

Exactly ...... though I would have preferred LD's response to have said 'Mr King's claim is nonsense'

Whatever happened we win either way: If Hibs did make the initial approach to Sevco, then our position afterwards can only mean we did so to provoke a bidding war and we have made them look a right bunch of mugs. If we didn't and King cant prove we did then once again he confirms his reputation as a proven liar is well founded and well deserved.

My money is on option 2 ....... Though I would prefer option 1 :greengrin

[grunt]

Meanwhile, King indicated there's no need for further investment from shareholders this season unless it is to bolster the playing squad. At the moment we are well funded through to the end of the season, we are ahead of where we thought we might be.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/football/34212152

So the stories of them running out of cash are rubbish, then?

[ancient hibee]

STOP PRESS

Dave King to be known as Walter Mitty.King says "he was my hero and I always wanted to tell stories like he did."

[emerald green]

The lying King or Leeann Dempster? Take your pick.

[bigwheel]

have you ever heard someone who is telling the truth, use the phrase "where I differ from X is?"

It's a strange turn of phrase -- not one that is in the least bit convincing from someone trying to make a truthful point

[Galahibby]

Dempster or King not telling the truth ?

Now, who has got previous for this sort of thing.

My thoughts exactly, he's not exactly known for his honesty. It has to be said that of all the total ****ers who have been associated with Rangers/Sevco over the years, he surely has to be the very aptly named King ****er :agree:

[WoreTheGreen]

[QUOTE=Galahibby;4463052]My thoughts exactly, he's not exactly known for his honesty. It has to be said that of all the total ****ers who have been associated with Rangers/Sevco over the years, he surely has to be the very aptly named King ****er :agree:[/QUO

[WoreTheGreen]

Wonder who weegie red tops will believe or told to by ?

[3pm]

Wonder who weegie red tops will believe or told to by ?

Depends if they want barred from Ibrox or not.

[WoreTheGreen]

On stv comedy news saw fat fk Sucullent lamb trainer ushering lying king in to press conf or was that old footage

[Prof. Shaggy]

http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/football/34212152

So the stories of them running out of cash are rubbish, then?

BBC in good news story from Ibrox shock.



Not

[Billy Whizz]

BBC in good news story from Ibrox shock.



Not

I seem to hate them more everyday, The Rangers that is

[Eyrie]

BBC in good news story from Ibrox shock.



Not

Remember that the article is quoting Dave King, so it's likely to be as accurate as one of his tax returns.

[Kato]

Seems like the ownership of Eyepox is still moot.

http://www.heraldscotland.com/news/13713228.Firm_formerly_linked_to_Craig_Whyte_ups_t he_ante_on_its_claim_on_the___18m_Rangers_oldco_cr editors_pot/

[CropleyWasGod]

Seems like the ownership of Eyepox is still moot.

http://www.heraldscotland.com/news/13713228.Firm_formerly_linked_to_Craig_Whyte_ups_t he_ante_on_its_claim_on_the___18m_Rangers_oldco_cr editors_pot/
That's not about the ownership. That's about the security.

Funny that it's taken them until now to raise it.

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[Kato]

That's not about the ownership. That's about the security.

Ssh.


Funny that it's taken them until now to raise it.


Funny haha, or funny peculiar?

[CropleyWasGod]

Ssh.




Funny haha, or funny peculiar?
Peculiar, although I am smiling.

All through the company whilst it was trading, the administration, and thus far in the liquidation, I don't remember this lot being mentioned when it came to security. There was talk of CW having it, and Ticketus, all of which came to naught.

I'm not saying that they don't. .....this story has had too many twists to rule it out. ...but my questions would be "if you had a genuine claim, why didn't you exercise it before the company went into administration? And why did you not lodge a claim in the administration? "

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[Stax]

http://www.hibs.net/webkit-fake-url://4243fd76-e897-440d-a4cf-bda5f9c297e1/imagejpeg

[Platinum Scotty]

Peculiar, although I am smiling.

All through the company whilst it was trading, the administration, and thus far in the liquidation, I don't remember this lot being mentioned when it came to security. There was talk of CW having it, and Ticketus, all of which came to naught.

I'm not saying that they don't. .....this story has had too many twists to rule it out. ...but my questions would be "if you had a genuine claim, why didn't you exercise it before the company went into administration? And why did you not lodge a claim in the administration? "

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http://www.telegraph.co.uk/sport/football/teams/rangers/10011435/Craig-Whyte-stands-to-make-8.5m-if-he-wins-lawsuit-in-battle-for-Rangers-assets.html

is this relevant?

[greenginger]

Peculiar, although I am smiling.

All through the company whilst it was trading, the administration, and thus far in the liquidation, I don't remember this lot being mentioned when it came to security. There was talk of CW having it, and Ticketus, all of which came to naught.

I'm not saying that they don't. .....this story has had too many twists to rule it out. ...but my questions would be "if you had a genuine claim, why didn't you exercise it before the company went into administration? And why did you not lodge a claim in the administration? "

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Maybe they were waiting on administrators/liquidators doing all the hard work in building a creditors pot for them to claim.

Maybe they thought that any pot would go to some crooked spivs would lessen the efforts of the insolvency spivs.

[CropleyWasGod]

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/sport/football/teams/rangers/10011435/Craig-Whyte-stands-to-make-8.5m-if-he-wins-lawsuit-in-battle-for-Rangers-assets.html

is this relevant?
Yeah it could be.

I remember all that. It all went quiet, like I say. D&P ignored it. .....in hindsight, that's no great shakes :) ....



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[Jack]

Maybe they were waiting on administrators/liquidators doing all the hard work in building a creditors pot for them to claim.

Maybe they thought that any pot would go to some crooked spivs would lessen the efforts of the insolvency spivs.

Haha!

All these pots and not one to piss in!

[CropleyWasGod]

Maybe they were waiting on administrators/liquidators doing all the hard work in building a creditors pot for them to claim.

Maybe they thought that any pot would go to some crooked spivs would lessen the efforts of the insolvency spivs.
That's possible as well.

I'm just sceptical that there never has been any security over Ibrox mentioned in any of the accounts or the subsequent dealings. (Other than the infamous pie loan). Perish the thought that its existence was suppressed by the company and its lawyers, which would mean that it's auditors were either misled, incompetent

or.....gasp....complicit

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[Ozyhibby]

On stv comedy news saw fat fk Sucullent lamb trainer ushering lying king in to press conf or was that old footage

Traynor owns Level 5 PR company. They are employed by Rangers to place positive stories about them in the press everyday. Doing a fine job of it and charging a pretty penny to do it.


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[greenginger]

That's possible as well.

I'm just sceptical that there never has been any security over Ibrox mentioned in any of the accounts or the subsequent dealings. (Other than the infamous pie loan). Perish the thought that its existence was suppressed by the company and its lawyers, which would mean that it's auditors were either misled, incompetent

or.....gasp....complicit

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I think it would be amazing if White did not take out some security over the assets. After buying the club from Murray, paying off the bank with Ticketus cash, he had plenty time to get his claws in.

Trouble is what would any security cover ? the £ 1 investment :greengrin

[CropleyWasGod]

I think it would be amazing if White did not take out some security over the assets. After buying the club from Murray, paying off the bank with Ticketus cash, he had plenty time to get his claws in.

Trouble is what would any security cover ? the £ 1 investment :greengrin
Exactly.

I remember having this conversation hunners of pages ago. Whyte couldn't have security because there was no freaking debt.

Similarly, this Law shower. ...security for what? ?

Edit. ....thinking this through......

CW probably led Law to believe that he had security over Ibrox for the money that he was supposed to be investing in the club. ...to pay off the BOS. As we all know now, he didn't invest a penny, so there was no loan and no security.....and nothing for Law to take over. In that scenario, they are yet another who have been duped by CW.


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[andrew70]

Taken from a man interview with D. King today.

Q: Your expectations for the new manager?
A: My expectations haven’t changed - I honestly felt we would win this league comfortably. I’m not being arrogant but I think we can now prepare for next season. It gives us a lot of time to think about it and get it right.

[Ozyhibby]

Taken from a man interview with D. King today.

Q: Your expectations for the new manager?
A: My expectations haven’t changed - I honestly felt we would win this league comfortably. I’m not being arrogant but I think we can now prepare for next season. It gives us a lot of time to think about it and get it right.










Wow


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[Spike Mandela]

5 games in and King and Warburton discussing on tv what they will need to compete in Premiership next year. Arrogant twats oh how I would love to see it go pear shaped.

[Smartie]

Taken from a man interview with D. King today.

Q: Your expectations for the new manager?
A: My expectations haven’t changed - I honestly felt we would win this league comfortably. I’m not being arrogant but I think we can now prepare for next season. It gives us a lot of time to think about it and get it right.










That's ridiculous.

Unfortunately for us I don't think Warburton or Weir would agree.

[Jim44]

Taken from a man interview with D. King today.

Q: Your expectations for the new manager?
A: My expectations haven’t changed - I honestly felt we would win this league comfortably. I’m not being arrogant but I think we can now prepare for next season. It gives us a lot of time to think about it and get it right.










Oh how the mighty can fall. You can think these things, Mr Lying King, but you shouldn't utter them prematurely. Mind you, talk is cheap and the Hun hordes will be loving it.

[grunt]

There's more weird stuff coming from his interview, something about repaying the Oldco creditors and resurrecting Oldco? Too bizarre for me, I'll let CWG explain what's going on.

[Ozyhibby]

There's more weird stuff coming from his interview, something about repaying the Oldco creditors and resurrecting Oldco? Too bizarre for me, I'll let CWG explain what's going on.

He's basically saying they are a new club and he wants to buy the old club back so we don't tease their fans.


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[greenginger]

There's more weird stuff coming from his interview, something about repaying the Oldco creditors and resurrecting Oldco? Too bizarre for me, I'll let CWG explain what's going on.


Its not Crops that's needed, more like a psychiatrist . I think the guy has flipped.

[Ozyhibby]

What’s the club’s cash position?

A: There are already the loans of over £4 million put in by myself and the Three Bears. Funds would no longer be required now because season ticket sales are beyond what we were budgeting on. Additional funding would only be required depending on transfer activity into the end of the first quarter of next season. We are very comfortably funded for the next six months.
Q: So your personal contribution has been one loan of £1.5m?

A: Yes, and the Three Bears had already put in £1.75 million and then another £750,000. That was perfect to get us through to the start of the season. The season ticket cash is not enough to get us through to the end of this season, we know that.

But the deficit is now less because the season ticket sales have been better than expected. You are talking about hundreds of thousands and the rest will depend on Mark’s transfer activity.

Q: And your plans for a share issue?

A: Until we get the audit out of the way, it is on the back burner. For me, that’s just admin. It doesn’t matter as far as funding is concerned. Whether we provide that through loans or new shares, I’m indifferent to it. I’ll give the club the money it needs either way.

Q: The pending court cases can’t help?

A: I would find it very difficult as a businessman to say to an institution in London that there is a case for investing in Rangers. For that reason I always said it will depend largely on the fan base and investors like ourselves. At this moment in time, Rangers is not something you should be putting other people’s money into.

Q: Will Rangers remain toxic to investors until the club has been fully cleansed?

A: We were toxic but I think ‘problematic’ is a better word to use now. There are issues still to be resolved. A lot of things behind the scenes are still problematic. If I was talking with a financial institution in London hoping for a £5 million investment they would be asking questions. Some I could answer, some I could give them my best guess. Some I could say ‘I think we are in control of the outcome’. And others I would have to say there is a lot of other stuff going on behind the scenes we don’t know. That is a reality of the legacy we stepped into.

Q: Could the legal action present problems in terms of the ownership of the club?

A: There are certainly a load of complications as to where things might end up. Craig Whyte has now come up with this new Worthington claim. There are a lot of messy things which will have to be dealt with.

We have a vision going forward where I would like to see us taking Oldco out of liquidation and putting assets back into Oldco - putting Rangers back into the old company. We can’t do it while all this stuff is being sorted out.

Q: Why is reviving the Oldco important to you?

A: It would be a good thing to do. It would be back to the traditional Rangers. I think the supporters would like it. It is not economically important but it is something I would like to do.

Q: A sense of closure? You could almost put an asterisk beside these past few years?

A: Exactly. You can never rewind what has happened but in 100 years’ time you might look back and say there was a blip of four or five years in Rangers’ history when this all happened and it was resolved to the norm again.

Q: Is it feasible?

A: It is practically feasible and legally feasible. We just have to get in the position where the liquidators have done everything they can. The club can then be rehabilitated.

But if you have all these claims floating around, where we don’t really know who is claiming assets and what they are, then it will continue for a longer period.

Q: Would this result in the oldco’s creditors being paid back in full?

A: You don’t have to pay 100p in the pound to creditors. If creditors accept a compromise and waive some of the debt it could be 50p or 60p in the pound.

Q: But better from a moral point of view?

A: Yes. At the moment if you look at the potential for the liquidation, with getting the money from Collier Bristow plus potential other claims, if HMRC are taken out the picture, then there is an opportunity for everyone to get 100p in the pound.

Take Craig Whyte’s new claim out of the picture as well and people could conceivably get 100p in the pound.

Q: You’ve previously expressed regret about the creditors. Is that part of why you want to do this?

A: Yes. It’s an emotional thing as well with the supporters.

They hear all this, ‘you’re not Rangers any more’. And ‘You are a new club.’ We just want to put all that behind us and say we had this unwanted period and now we are back to where we were. It would be a good thing.

Q: Do the newco jibes hurt?

A: Not as much as it hurts the fans. I’m told about it but I’m not in there all the time. It’s part of being in Glasgow. It’s part of the history of the two clubs. Rangers fans over the years have been keen to have a dig at Celtic when there is an option to do so. To me it’s not really serious.

Q: The jibes about ‘where is Dave King’s money?’. Do they bother you?

A: Not really. I’ve put money into the club. I said I would fund the shortfall and I’ve done it.

Q: But you did promise to invest £30m of your children’s inheritance. Didn’t that box you into a corner?

A: No because people are not saying that to me - not outside of this room. It only ever comes up in chats with you guys.

You people have reasons for continuing to bring it up.

Q: Do you believe Ally McCoist’s legendary status should continue despite him taking so much cash out the club?

A: To me there is no ‘despite’ about it. Ally McCoist was treated poorly. He was the manager of the club and was not given the backing of his board. Ally has been treated very poorly. But because he is a Rangers man he has been gracious enough to accommodate us by coming to a formal compromise. I certainly don’t look on Ally as having done anything even remotely untoward.

Q: Have you invited him into the director’s box?

A: We have. We are quite keen to get him back and get his mum back. My mum misses his mum, so all the mums would be happy.

Q: Cynics might think McCoist has a job lined up as a Champions League pundit on TV?

A: I’m not saying that he won’t. But what I can say is our discussions started months ago and he has shown no resistance at any time to reaching a compromise. If he does have another job I say good luck to him. He has accommodated Rangers and I am extremely grateful. He didn’t have to do it.
Q: Do you expect a Cup this season?

A: If we could accelerate our entry to Europe then that would be fantastic - but that’s hit and miss. We’re at an early stage.

Q: Title challenge next season?

A: Definitely. My feeling, sitting here today, is we can start next season INTENDING to win the Premier League. Celtic are strong and experienced but I think we should start the season with that intention. The gap is not as big in my mind as it was three or four months ago. Celtic have a bigger budget than Rangers. But do I think the quality of player Celtic has is a multiple of the budget that Rangers have? I do not.

Q: You said you were grateful to Celtic for buying Scott Allan. Might you live to regret that?

A: It was nice of them to help us out! Next season is a different season - next season we will have another five or six Scott Allans.

Scott Allan is one player. The value to us of having him taken away from Hibs is more than the value for us having him the next couple of years.


Q: Your expectations for the new manager?

A: My expectations haven’t changed - I honestly felt we would win this league comfortably. I’m not being arrogant but I think we can now prepare for next season. It gives us a lot of time to think about it and get it right.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[KeithTheHibby]

Taken from a man interview with D. King today.

Q: Your expectations for the new manager?
A: My expectations haven’t changed - I honestly felt we would win this league comfortably. I’m not being arrogant but I think we can now prepare for next season. It gives us a lot of time to think about it and get it right.












What a slimy looking arrogant Hun ****.

[HIBERNIAN-0762]

Liars and cheats, just like their wee brothers.

Dempster should go to town with this pack of lies.

Nothing short of a disgrace.

[MKHIBEE]

There's more weird stuff coming from his interview, something about repaying the Oldco creditors and resurrecting Oldco? Too bizarre for me, I'll let CWG explain what's going on.
I wouldn't have a problem provided the newco oldco were made to start life in the junior ranks

[greenpaper55]

Pride comes before a fall and all that !, it would be so good if the wheels came off and they started to struggle in games but it would seem unlikely. To say they are going to win the SPL next season is unbelievable.

[Scorrie]

I wouldn't have a problem provided the newco oldco were made to start life in the junior ranks

I was just about to post the same thing. The oldco would be the new newco so would be the old club which is restarting up and so should start at the bottom rung of the ladder!

[Moulin Yarns]

Regarding the claim from King that Hibs approach them to sell Scott Allan, has nobody realised he wasn't even in the country when this was supposed to have taken place? He couldn't have been party to these conversations, if they took place at all.

[CropleyWasGod]

There's more weird stuff coming from his interview, something about repaying the Oldco creditors and resurrecting Oldco? Too bizarre for me, I'll let CWG explain what's going on.

IMO, he's just playing to the gallery.

The idea of transferring everything back is a non-starter, for so many reasons.... and he alludes to that in his interview. It makes for a good headline, though.

[SirPsychoHibee]

"We've won the league after 5 games and Celtic did us a favour signing our main transfer target."

http://2.bp.blogspot.com/-iY6G4ue1ZKE/VL348bR7YeI/AAAAAAAAWow/4oa-6K5Rx9w/s1600/mr_deeds.jpg

[CropleyWasGod]

What’s the club’s cash position?

A: There are already the loans of over £4 million put in by myself and the Three Bears. Funds would no longer be required now because season ticket sales are beyond what we were budgeting on. Additional funding would only be required depending on transfer activity into the end of the first quarter of next season. We are very comfortably funded for the next six months.
Q: So your personal contribution has been one loan of £1.5m?

A: Yes, and the Three Bears had already put in £1.75 million and then another £750,000. That was perfect to get us through to the start of the season. The season ticket cash is not enough to get us through to the end of this season, we know that.

But the deficit is now less because the season ticket sales have been better than expected. You are talking about hundreds of thousands and the rest will depend on Mark’s transfer activity.

Q: And your plans for a share issue?

A: Until we get the audit out of the way, it is on the back burner. For me, that’s just admin. It doesn’t matter as far as funding is concerned. Whether we provide that through loans or new shares, I’m indifferent to it. I’ll give the club the money it needs either way.



The bits in bold are interesting.

That says to me that they will either be selling in January (who? Wallace?) or DK will need to be put in more cash.

The one question not asked, of course, is..... What happens if MASH demand repayment of their money?

[worcesterhibby]

"We've won the league after 5 games and Celtic did us a favour signing our main transfer target."

http://2.bp.blogspot.com/-iY6G4ue1ZKE/VL348bR7YeI/AAAAAAAAWow/4oa-6K5Rx9w/s1600/mr_deeds.jpg

He is an absolute roaster, but it was a win win situation for them with Scott Allan. His came out of it as well as we possibly could have, but we did still lose our best player. Right now they do look like romping the league too, The number of points they drop will be very dependant on how we play..we need to win EVERY game from now on including the games against them to ensure there is still some pressure on them.

[JeMeSouviens]

IMO, he's just playing to the gallery.


Exactly. In the short term, the New Hun cashflow can only come from patg bums on seats. He'll say anything to keep the fickle Huns onside.

[Spike Mandela]

The glib and shameless liar's utterances become more outlandish and over the top every day, spoon fed to an unquestioning MSM that one can only conclude the reason is to mask some really bad **** going on in the background.

[Jim44]

The glib and shameless liar's utterances become more outlandish and over the top every day, spoon fed to an unquestioning MSM that one can only conclude the reason is to mask some really bad **** going on in the background.

Is lamb back on the menu?

[keep the faith]

Would love to see us really push rangers on the issue of us approaching them re Allan.

[Jim44]

Would love to see us really push rangers on the issue of us approaching them re Allan.

What annoys me is that the Allan situation was initially resurrected by Lying King himself, refuted by LD, then a Sevco person ( can't remember if it was Lying King or a lackey ) was quoted as saying that the issue was dead and buried and more or less questioning why we were taking issue with what he said. The guy is hunbelievable.

[JimBHibees]

Is lamb back on the menu?

Never been off the menu I dont think.

[southsider]

What a chancer. If he pays oldco's creditors off in full I will win the next BGT with a singing dog. He is right up there with the guy who wants to nuke Mars ! But seriously I hope Ms Dempster's office record all phone calls. If so we should give it to the press.

[Deansy]

Can't wait for the first major media-outlet (BBC, Daily R*tard' etc') to ask\print the question\headline - "OK, let's look at this rationally - is there anyone on either board whose honesty is questionable ??" - ......................

After all, aren't the media are like the Police - anyone with form is first-up for the questioning and then heavily checked-out ??

[Hibernia&Alba]

"Glib and shameless liar". Another charlatan/criminal at a club that is rotten to the core; the lowest of the low.

[pennyhibee]

He has stated that they didn't care if Allan signed for them or not they just wanted to disrupt Hibs Pretty much says it all about the way that club is run and managed by people with no morals and are allowed to carry on such a way by the gutless spfl and all organised for them by that loud mouth traynor

[jacomo]

Sorry if already posted, but Sally has agreed a pay-off.

http://www.theguardian.com/football/2015/sep/10/ranger-agree-pay-off-former-manager-ally-mccoist

[Jim44]

Sorry if already posted, but Sally has agreed a pay-off.

http://www.theguardian.com/football/2015/sep/10/ranger-agree-pay-off-former-manager-ally-mccoist

All's well that ends well. Lying King says that both his and the gardener's mum had been missing each other and would now be united in the stand at home games. The guy's lift doesn't go to the top floor.

[Smartie]

Would love to see us really push rangers on the issue of us approaching them re Allan.

I'd hate to see us get involved in a silly tit-for-tat situation in the press, whose sympathies on the subject will not lie with us but with the club who would be favoured by more of their readers.

The Allan situation is over and needs a line drawn under it. The short, sharp response we have made without being drawn into the issue further still is more than enough.

What I would LOVE to see us do would be to really push Rangers in the league. The complacent garbage they have been coming out with in the press is disrespectful, dangerous and naive in the extreme. Nothing is won after 5 games and they might well have wound our squad up a bit more. I don't think you'd have ever heard the likes of Walter Smith talking like that.

We need to make our statements on the park.

[CropleyWasGod]

What a chancer. If he pays oldco's creditors off in full I will win the next BGT with a singing dog. He is right up there with the guy who wants to nuke Mars ! But seriously I hope Ms Dempster's office record all phone calls. If so we should give it to the press.

He didn't actually say that, of course.

However, why let the truth get in the way of a headline?

[Iain G]

This man is a proven crook and a liar, he is feeding this drivel to the weegie media to keep the fans delusions of grandeur filled. Some of what he is saying in this interview is disrespectful and the man is clearly delusional and believes his own hype. Remarkable!

[Moulin Yarns]

He didn't actually say that, of course.

However, why let the truth get in the way of a headline?

Agreed. He hinted that it would not include HMRC and the Whyte claim., about£50m ?

[CropleyWasGod]

Agreed. He hinted that it would not include HMRC and the Whyte claim., about£50m ?
He also said that it didn't have to be 100% :)

Sent from my GT-I9505 using Tapatalk

[ancient hibee]

Sorry if already posted, but Sally has agreed a pay-off.

http://www.theguardian.com/football/2015/sep/10/ranger-agree-pay-off-former-manager-ally-mccoist

As he only had 3 months to go seems a lot of trouble about nothing-or are they really desperate for cash and saving a month or so in wages helps?

[Keith_M]

As he only had 3 months to go seems a lot of trouble about nothing-or are they really desperate for cash and saving a month or so in wages helps?


By all accounts, he was due around £240k more. It'd be interesting to see how much they actually saved by settling with him early.

[greenginger]

And the Lying King has had his claim on the Oldco creditors pot booted out.


http://www.heraldscotland.com/news/13716072.Rangers_chairman_has_multi_million_claim_ on___18m_oldco_creditors_pot_rejected/?ref=rss&utm_source=twitterfeed&utm_medium=twitter&utm_campaign=Feed%3A+ScottishNewsHeraldScotland+%2 8Scottish+News+%7C+Herald+Scotland%29

Bang goes the warchest. :greengrin

[hibbypostie]

He is an absolute roaster, but it was a win win situation for them with Scott Allan. His came out of it as well as we possibly could have, but we did still lose our best player. Right now they do look like romping the league too, The number of points they drop will be very dependant on how we play..we need to win EVERY game from now on including the games against them to ensure there is still some pressure on them.


We will catch them they have a threadbare squad a few injuries and suspensions and their bubble will pop ~:agree:

[ian cruise]

What a chancer. If he pays oldco's creditors off in full I will win the next BGT with a singing dog. He is right up there with the guy who wants to nuke Mars ! But seriously I hope Ms Dempster's office record all phone calls. If so we should give it to the press.

As mental as Elon Musk's "fire nukes at Mars" plan is there's actual scientific facts to back up his thinks no. King is just making stuff up.

[AndyM_1875]

One for CWG - this I believe is what king will fight to get15428

Several million in the pot plus some assets

[CropleyWasGod]

One for CWG - this I believe is what king will fight to get15428

Several million in the pot plus some assets
Having a similar discussion on Twitter. The pot will be used to pay creditors.

Sent from my GT-I9505 using Tapatalk

[AndyM_1875]

Having a similar discussion on Twitter. The pot will be used to pay creditors.

Sent from my GT-I9505 using Tapatalk

Yup. King as an unsecured creditor has been booted, bulk of HMRC claim likely dismissed so more to pay out to the businesses who were shafted.

[Bostonhibby]

Having a similar discussion on Twitter. The pot will be used to pay creditors.

Sent from my GT-I9505 using Tapatalk
Can anyone other than creditors actually get their hands on this? Confused!

[AndyM_1875]

Can anyone other than creditors actually get their hands on this? Confused!

On the money? No.

On the corporate entity in liquidation after the creditors have been paid out.... Best ask a corporate lawyer.

[Bostonhibby]

On the money? No.

On the corporate entity in liquidation after the creditors have been paid out.... Best ask a corporate lawyer.

:aok:

[CropleyWasGod]

Can anyone other than creditors actually get their hands on this? Confused!
If someone came along and paid in enough to pay off all the creditors, the liquidator, the former shareholders and all of the potential other claims....yes.

Look....a flying pig :)

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[Bostonhibby]

If someone came along and paid in enough to pay off all the creditors, the liquidator, the former shareholders and all of the potential other claims....yes.

Look....a flying pig :)

Sent from my GT-I9505 using Tapatalk

Cheers CWG, if Tel Butchers black and gold army can carry on losing for a few more weeks my bookies account might make a wee bid.

[CropleyWasGod]

Yup. King as an unsecured creditor has been booted, bulk of HMRC claim likely dismissed so more to pay out to the businesses who were shafted.
The discussion on Twitter seems to have been started by David Low. He should have known better :)

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[ancient hibee]

The discussion on Twitter seems to have been started by David Low. He should have known better :)

Sent from my GT-I9505 using Tapatalk


David Low a self described football finance expert(and fantasist).

[s.a.m]

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-glasgow-west-34245039

[PatHead]

Boof

"He described Rangers fans as "a tribe", adding: "What the rest of the world will never understand unless they experience it first hand is that Rangers Football Club is a religion, in itself, built on centuries of religious bigotry."
The former director also accused Police Scotland of being "an establishment institution which itself is deeply rooted and immersed in Rangers Football Club's history for well over 140 years".
Mr Ahmad said: "I firmly believe Police Scotland have their own agenda and are deeply emotionally connected to Rangers Football Club. In my view Police Scotland have a clear conflict of interest.""

[Mr White]

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-glasgow-west-34245039

Mr Ahmad spoke out after*four other men*were charged over the deal.

He accused police of being "emotionally connected" to Rangers and described the club as "a religion built on religious bigotry". He also said he would not get a fair trial anywhere in Scotland.


Hard to argue with that :greengrin

[Kato]

....and as a little bit background noise to the above.


http://www.heraldscotland.com/news/13719346.UEFA_raps__reckless__Scottish_FA_over_cla ims_sectarianism_just_part_of_the_national_game/

[Bostonhibby]

Boof

"He described Rangers fans as "a tribe", adding: "What the rest of the world will never understand unless they experience it first hand is that Rangers Football Club is a religion, in itself, built on centuries of religious bigotry."
The former director also accused Police Scotland of being "an establishment institution which itself is deeply rooted and immersed in Rangers Football Club's history for well over 140 years".
Mr Ahmad said: "I firmly believe Police Scotland have their own agenda and are deeply emotionally connected to Rangers Football Club. In my view Police Scotland have a clear conflict of interest.""

The ****** will doubtless out him as a Catholic conspirator first thing in the morning then:wink:

Only getting into the media what the rest of us have known for decades. Sure we could find 12 good men and true to form a jury to try him on the East side of Edinburgh.

[Onion]

Spokesman for Police Scotland said "No surr .... erm comment".:lips seal

[jacomo]

....and as a little bit background noise to the above.


http://www.heraldscotland.com/news/13719346.UEFA_raps__reckless__Scottish_FA_over_cla ims_sectarianism_just_part_of_the_national_game/

UEFA being 'miles ahead' of the SFA on tackling racism is pretty damning. UEFA is the kind of organisation that issues 5k fines for racist chanting and 30k fines for wearing pants with an unauthorised logo.

Having said that, Ajax fans are plain weird. They proclaim themselves as Jews even though only a tiny number of them are Jewish. The banner was probably just a tactless attempt at a wind up.

[Kato]

UEFA being 'miles ahead' of the SFA on tackling racism is pretty damning. UEFA is the kind of organisation that issues 5k fines for racist chanting and 30k fines for wearing pants with an unauthorised logo.

It also means the SFA sanction the breaking of the Scottish Parliaments' (stupid) laws against sectarian language/chants/hats/macaroon bars/spearmint chewing gum.

[weecounty hibby]

Boof

"He described Rangers fans as "a tribe", adding: "What the rest of the world will never understand unless they experience it first hand is that Rangers Football Club is a religion, in itself, built on centuries of religious bigotry."
The former director also accused Police Scotland of being "an establishment institution which itself is deeply rooted and immersed in Rangers Football Club's history for well over 140 years".
Mr Ahmad said: "I firmly believe Police Scotland have their own agenda and are deeply emotionally connected to Rangers Football Club. In my view Police Scotland have a clear conflict of interest.""
What an incredibly accurate description of both Der Hun and their unofficial stormtroopers in police Scotland. OK not all of them but every one that I encountered on duty at Ibrox and a fair amount elsewhere. Also how come they have managed to arrest pretty much everyone who has owned them since David Murray, but he has managed to wriggle out of any police investigation or indeed media investigation/statements at all. Maybe the media should have been included in Ahmad's list of those who are wrapped up in The Rangers

[Bishop Hibee]

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-glasgow-west-34245039


....and as a little bit background noise to the above.


http://www.heraldscotland.com/news/13719346.UEFA_raps__reckless__Scottish_FA_over_cla ims_sectarianism_just_part_of_the_national_game/

The Rangers and their predecessor really are and were nasty blots on Scottish society. As for the SFA....what a flock of ostriches.

[Kato]

http://news.stv.tv/west-central/1328851-charles-green-craig-whyte-and-five-others-indicted-rangers-probe/

[jgl07]

Having said that, Ajax fans are plain weird. They proclaim themselves as Jews even though only a tiny number of them are Jewish.

You mean they are like Tottenham fans?

[PatHead]

From BBC

"Rangers boss Mark Warburton will not go overboard in the January transfer window for fear of upsetting a successful dressing room. (Various)"

Roughly translated means we still won't have any money.

[Jack]

http://news.stv.tv/west-central/1328851-charles-green-craig-whyte-and-five-others-indicted-rangers-probe/

Something I've just seen for the first time "Sheik Imran Ahmad also known as Imran Ahmad" Anyone know more about the sheik bit?

[Iain G]

Something I've just seen for the first time "Sheik Imran Ahmad also known as Imran Ahmad" Anyone know more about the sheik bit?

I think sheik means he is well dressed, ya ken, nice bit o burberry and some pure class gold sovy rings man...

[MKHIBEE]

http://news.stv.tv/west-central/1328851-charles-green-craig-whyte-and-five-others-indicted-rangers-probe/
When they are found guilty of these charges surely a long prison sentence awaits them?
Hope they get consecutive jail sentences .

[CropleyWasGod]

When they are found guilty of these charges surely a long prison sentence awaits them?
Hope they get consecutive jail sentences .

When? :greengrin

Firstly, we don't know what the specific charges are.

Secondly, conspiracy is notoriously difficult to prove. In this situation, Ahmed may be the key. He's alluded to co-operating with the police. If he does, that will help the case.

However, long sentences? It's doubtful.

[Moulin Yarns]

When? :greengrin

Firstly, we don't know what the specific charges are.

Secondly, conspiracy is notoriously difficult to prove. In this situation, Ahmed may be the key. He's alluded to co-operating with the police. If he does, that will help the case.

However, long sentences? It's doubtful.

Long Kesh, or Crumlin Road would have been a good option :wink: unfortunately they are no longer options.

[Ozyhibby]

When? :greengrin

Firstly, we don't know what the specific charges are.

Secondly, conspiracy is notoriously difficult to prove. In this situation, Ahmed may be the key. He's alluded to co-operating with the police. If he does, that will help the case.

However, long sentences? It's doubtful.

I think there is almost no chance these guys will go to jail. White collar crime rarely gets punished in Britain.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[Hibs Class]

Something I've just seen for the first time "Sheik Imran Ahmad also known as Imran Ahmad" Anyone know more about the sheik bit?

Fantastic - most sheiks want to get a football club and pour unlimited cash into it. Nae luck!

[Dan Sarf]

From BBC

"Rangers boss Mark Warburton will not go overboard in the January transfer window for fear of upsetting a successful dressing room. (Various)"

Roughly translated means we still won't have any money.


Warburton said exactly the same thing at Brentford when they were flying high.

The club was urging him to flash the cash (plenty was available) but he said it might unsettle the team. It was the start of the falling out with the owner, Matthew Benham. I bet Benham wishes he had him back now.

[Jim44]

Warburton said exactly the same thing at Brentford when they were flying high.

The club was urging him to flash the cash (plenty was available) but he said it might unsettle the team. It was the start of the falling out with the owner, Matthew Benham. I bet Benham wishes he had him back now.




.............. so do we!

[J-C]

Warburton said exactly the same thing at Brentford when they were flying high.

The club was urging him to flash the cash (plenty was available) but he said it might unsettle the team. It was the start of the falling out with the owner, Matthew Benham. I bet Benham wishes he had him back now.


TBH nothing wrong with that philosophy, if the team is playing well, the squad are happy and you feel you have the right players to do the job, then why spend for the sake of it, getting a well gelled happy squad isn't always easy, so why unsettle it.

[Smartie]

I think it was Kevin Keegan at Newcastle that kept on signing very good players (Asprilla) possibly to the detriment of an already good and settled team.

Warburton would be mad to rock the boat too much mid-season imo.

Ok, maybe if they're miles ahead they could start to think towards next season but if we (or anyone else) are anywhere near them then even one hiccup could set in a fair bit of self-doubt and backfire on them.

[ballengeich]

Warburton said exactly the same thing at Brentford when they were flying high.

The club was urging him to flash the cash (plenty was available) but he said it might unsettle the team. It was the start of the falling out with the owner, Matthew Benham. I bet Benham wishes he had him back now.

Let's hope Warburton matches his success last season - Brentford weren't promoted.

Not wanting to spend will be music to the ears of King and others who're worried about exactly how much they need to put in to make it to the end of the season.

[Ozyhibby]

http://www.philmacgiollabhain.ie/the-big-house-and-the-price-of-dignity/


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[Geo_1875]

Let's hope Warburton matches his success last season - Brentford weren't promoted.

Not wanting to spend will be music to the ears of King and others who're worried about exactly how much they need to put in to make it to the end of the season.

There's a world of difference between not wanting to spend and not having a pot to piss in.

[jacomo]

Let's hope Warburton matches his success last season - Brentford weren't promoted.

Not wanting to spend will be music to the ears of King and others who're worried about exactly how much they need to put in to make it to the end of the season.

By January, we need to be putting pressure on Sevco so that the fans are begging for more players.

[grunt]

http://www.philmacgiollabhain.ie/the-big-house-and-the-price-of-dignity/


Sent from my iPhone using TapatalkIt may be interesting, but his style of writing really gets on my nerves. He comes across as the most annoying person ever.

[Jack Hackett]

It may be interesting, but his style of writing really gets on my nerves. He comes across as the most annoying person ever.

Nah...That title is held in perpetuity by Craig Le Vain

[Hank Schrader]

It may be interesting, but his style of writing really gets on my nerves. He comes across as the most annoying person ever.

I'm am in agreement with you, apropos his writing style. :wink:

[Kojock]

When they are found guilty of these charges surely a long prison sentence awaits them?
Hope they get consecutive jail sentences .

Am I missing something here?? Guys that have shafted Der Hun should go to jail??

[Ozyhibby]

Am I missing something here?? Guys that have shafted Der Hun should go to jail??

I'm perfectly comfortable with wanting these crooks sent to jail and wanting the new Rangers to go bust as well.


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[CropleyWasGod]

Am I missing something here?? Guys that have shafted Der Hun should go to jail??
It's the creditors that they are alleged to have shafted

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[Mr White]

It's the creditors that they are alleged to have shafted

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Doubt that detail will save them if they wind up in the other big hoose

[Deansy]

Am I missing something here?? Guys that have shafted Der Hun should go to jail??

Agreed - anyone who's done damage to the Hun deserves nothing but thanks !!

[Kojock]

It's the creditors that they are alleged to have shafted

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Cheers :aok:

[Ozyhibby]

http://images.tapatalk-cdn.com/15/09/19/82db3396f87495c26a9e2bac6a43b125.jpg
Big Mike really does not like Dave. :-)


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[tamig]

http://images.tapatalk-cdn.com/15/09/19/82db3396f87495c26a9e2bac6a43b125.jpg
Big Mike really does not like Dave. :-)


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Lol.

[silverhibee]

From some guy on Facebook. :dunno:

"Skybet temporarily suspended all bets on Hibs winning the league earlier due to irregular betting patterns! I noticed this myself, and they have now limited it to max stake of £93.75. Very strange? My thinking is maybe The Rangers could be hit with a points deduction for Admin2, rumoured to be incoming.Wishful thinking? Any thoughts?"

[HoboHarry]

From some guy on Facebook. :dunno:

"Skybet temporarily suspended all bets on Hibs winning the league earlier due to irregular betting patterns! I noticed this myself, and they have now limited it to max stake of £93.75. Very strange? My thinking is maybe The Rangers could be hit with a points deduction for Admin2, rumoured to be incoming.Wishful thinking? Any thoughts?"

:pray:

Hope you are right :greengrin

[Ozyhibby]

From some guy on Facebook. :dunno:

"Skybet temporarily suspended all bets on Hibs winning the league earlier due to irregular betting patterns! I noticed this myself, and they have now limited it to max stake of £93.75. Very strange? My thinking is maybe The Rangers could be hit with a points deduction for Admin2, rumoured to be incoming.Wishful thinking? Any thoughts?"

I know nothing but I really hope you are right.


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[liamh2202]

There was a guy on here earlier that had his skybet account shut when he backed hibs for the league

[greenginger]

Have the odds been changed ?

[Hibby Kay-Yay]

Sky bet
15469

Paddypower
15470

Quite a difference in odds there for Hibs

[Callum_62]

that would be hilarious - but I doubt it

[Ozyhibby]

They are going to run out of money before the end of the season. Whether they can source finance is the big question.


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[greenginger]

They are going to run out of money before the end of the season. Whether they can source finance is the big question.


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End of the season ?

They needed additional funding by November last season, might be December this season.

[Ozyhibby]

End of the season ?

They needed additional funding by November last season, might be December this season.

Yes, and the 3 bears appear to have departed the scene, all the assets are already secured by MA except Ibrox, whose ownership is disputed. Tough conditions for borrowing money.


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[ballengeich]

End of the season ?

They needed additional funding by November last season, might be December this season.

What are you basing that on? While we don't know how this season's wages compare with last, and we don't know how much of their other commercial income is being diverted to SD to service Ashley's loan, I'd have thought that the increased crowds this season will reduce their annual loss, whcih the interim accounts up to 31/12/14 suggested was running at around £8m pa. Based on that my guess is that it will be more like March before they run out of cash. Possibly I'm just being pessimistic:greengrin

Mind you, if any of the loans suddenly get called in things could change very quickly.

[Ozyhibby]

What are you basing that on? While we don't know how this season's wages compare with last, and we don't know how much of their other commercial income is being diverted to SD to service Ashley's loan, I'd have thought that the increased crowds this season will reduce their annual loss, whcih the interim accounts up to 31/12/14 suggested was running at around £8m pa. Based on that my guess is that it will be more like March before they run out of cash. Possibly I'm just being pessimistic:greengrin

Mind you, if any of the loans suddenly get called in things could change very quickly.

All of their merchandising money goes to Ashley until the loan is paid back. All pitch side and stadium advertising goes to Ashley. Their only source of income is ticket sales.


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[greenginger]

What are you basing that on? While we don't know how this season's wages compare with last, and we don't know how much of their other commercial income is being diverted to SD to service Ashley's loan, I'd have thought that the increased crowds this season will reduce their annual loss, whcih the interim accounts up to 31/12/14 suggested was running at around £8m pa. Based on that my guess is that it will be more like March before they run out of cash. Possibly I'm just being pessimistic:greengrin

Mind you, if any of the loans suddenly get called in things could change very quickly.


The he way I looked at it was, last year they started with £ 4.5 million in the bank , all be it £ 3 million was rangers retail. They got £ 0.5 million for their stadium rent for the games in July, £ 3.1 million for a share allotment in August/September, they drew down £ 2 million of theAshley loan in October with a further £ 1 million at the beginning of November .

now season ticket sale may be up on last year but there are none of the other incomes I've listed so I reckon cash will run out unless somebody puts their hand in a very deep pocket.

[ballengeich]

The he way I looked at it was, last year they started with £ 4.5 million in the bank , all be it £ 3 million was rangers retail. They got £ 0.5 million for their stadium rent for the games in July, £ 3.1 million for a share allotment in August/September, they drew down £ 2 million of theAshley loan in October with a further £ 1 million at the beginning of November .

now season ticket sale may be up on last year but there are none of the other incomes I've listed so I reckon cash will run out unless somebody puts their hand in a very deep pocket.

Thanks. I follow your reasoning. I was simply thinking that the increased gate money (over the season it won't matter whether it's season tickets or patg) would reduce the losses so allow them to continue longer without a cash injection than last season. On that basis King's claim that they can operate for six months before needing cash to complete the season seemed vaguely plausible. Let's hope your're right and the crisis is imminent.

[CropleyWasGod]

Thanks. I follow your reasoning. I was simply thinking that the increased gate money (over the season it won't matter whether it's season tickets or patg) would reduce the losses so allow them to continue longer without a cash injection than last season. On that basis King's claim that they can operate for six months before needing cash to complete the season seemed vaguely plausible. Let's hope your're right and the crisis is imminent.

It will matter, in that the ST's are up front. No idea what they were last year, but this season's seem to be pretty healthy.That has to give them breathing-space.

The wage bill is also much less than last year's, which will help. As will the reduced squad numbers, and the removal of McCoist. (tried my best to use "slimmed-down", but it won't work in the same sentence as AM...:cb)

[HoboHarry]

It will matter, in that the ST's are up front. No idea what they were last year, but this season's seem to be pretty healthy.That has to give them breathing-space.

The wage bill is also much less than last year's, which will help. As will the reduced squad numbers, and the removal of McCoist. (tried my best to use "slimmed-down", but it won't work in the same sentence as AM...:cb)

Wonder how many season tickets were used up paying off Swally?

[Jack]

Wonder how many season tickets were used up paying off Swally?

3 or 4 months at £80k - 90k a month, depending on who you believe.

[Ozyhibby]

http://www.podcastgarden.com/episode/sfm-episode-1-06_58958

Interesting podcast for anyone interested in the financial goings on at Ibrox with our old friend David Low.


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[CropleyWasGod]

http://www.podcastgarden.com/episode/sfm-episode-1-06_58958

Interesting podcast for anyone interested in the financial goings on at Ibrox with our old friend David Low.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Listened to the first 15 minutes, and had to switch off.

The guy has little understanding of insolvency law. And he's banging on about security when there is none.

So glad he didn't get involved with us.

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[Ozyhibby]

Listened to the first 15 minutes, and had to switch off.

The guy has little understanding of insolvency law. And he's banging on about security when there is none.

So glad he didn't get involved with us.

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Insolvency law seems to change with each individual case anyway.
The Yams got to pick and choose who voted on their CVA despite insolvency law indicating connected companies could not vote. With these sorts of shenanigans going on and what has already occurred with the liquidation of the original Rangers it appears to me that insolvency law in this country is a mess. With this in mind, his opinion is no more or less valid than anyone else. The experts on insolvency law in this country have not covered themselves in glory so far.
I am glad he's not involved in Hibs though.


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[CropleyWasGod]

Insolvency law seems to change with each individual case anyway.
The Yams got to pick and choose who voted on their CVA despite insolvency law indicating connected companies could not vote. With these sorts of shenanigans going on and what has already occurred with the liquidation of the original Rangers it appears to me that insolvency law in this country is a mess. With this in mind, his opinion is no more or less valid than anyone else. The experts on insolvency law in this country have not covered themselves in glory so far.
I am glad he's not involved in Hibs though.


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Exhibit A. He talks about Preferred Creditors. There are none in Rangers case.

Exhibit B. He talks about Worthingtons being Preferred Creditors. They're not. They can't be.

Exhibit C. He talks about Worthingtons having security. There can't be security without a debt. That whole question was settled a long time ago.

Exhibit D. He talks about the Oldco being an attractive investment, because they might win the Big Tax Case. Even if they do, there are still tens of millions in unpaid debt

Exhibit E. He talks about the assets being transferred back to Oldco, as if it's an easy process. They're already (at least) 2 companies away. Good luck with that.

[Ozyhibby]

That's better. I prefer to know why rather than just be told someone is talking *****.
One thing I think is correct is that this will take a lot of time in the courts to sort out and that the new Rangers will struggle to borrow until it's all sorted.


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[PatHead]

That's better. I prefer to know why rather than just be told someone is talking *****.
One thing I think is correct is that this will take a lot of time in the courts to sort out and that the new Rangers will struggle to borrow until it's all sorted.


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Ah so that is why they want to re-instate Oldco. How will it get easier when their previous track record was horrific?

Genuine question, not trying to be awkward.

[CropleyWasGod]

That's better. I prefer to know why rather than just be told someone is talking *****.
One thing I think is correct is that this will take a lot of time in the courts to sort out and that the new Rangers will struggle to borrow until it's all sorted.


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:greengrin

He also does that thing that so many so-called professionals do, in that he uses lots of big words and buzz-phrases that make it sound like he knows what he's talking about. He might know his own game, but in this situation it's mostly padding and flannel.

[Ozyhibby]

Ah so that is why they want to re-instate Oldco. How will it get easier when their previous track record was horrific?

Genuine question, not trying to be awkward.

I guess with a new board they could always convince someone to lend to them but there is no way they could convince someone while the ownership of the assets is being contested. And Mike Ashley own security over everything except Ibrox. It's really down to Dave King and the 3 bears to fund the rest of the season.


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[Bostonhibby]

Exhibit A. He talks about Preferred Creditors. There are none in Rangers case.

Exhibit B. He talks about Worthingtons being Preferred Creditors. They're not. They can't be.

Exhibit C. He talks about Worthingtons having security. There can't be security without a debt. That whole question was settled a long time ago.

Exhibit D. He talks about the Oldco being an attractive investment, because they might win the Big Tax Case. Even if they do, there are still tens of millions in unpaid debt

Exhibit E. He talks about the assets being transferred back to Oldco, as if it's an easy process. They're already (at least) 2 companies away. Good luck with that.

I haven't been keeping up with this side of the thread much as my financial adviser and psychiatrist both said it wasn't a good idea, but is the gist of this post that there might be more than one glib and shameless liar? :confused::greengrin

[Eyrie]

:greengrin

He also does that thing that so many so-called professionals do, in that he uses lots of big words and buzz-phrases that make it sound like he knows what he's talking about. He might know his own game, but in this situation it's mostly padding and flannel.

Are you sharing a professional secret with that? :devil:

[hibs0666]

16/1 is still available...

[overdrive]

16/1 is still available...

I got 20/1 yesterday.

[PatHead]

Charles Green taking The Rangers to court according to BBC. Wants his legal fees paid. Got to admire his brass neck. Love it if The new club are billed £500k

BBC Scotland has learned the former Rangers chief executive Charles Green is taking the club to court in a bid get them to pay his legal fees after he was charged with serious organised crime offences relating to his time at Ibrox.
http://ichef.bbci.co.uk/live-experience/cps/480/cpsprodpb/13ED/production/_85710150_green_livingston.jpg
BBC
Green claims his contract with the club entitled him to legal cover during and after his spell in charge. Lawyers acting on Green's behalf have written to the club and want a court ruling to clarify the situation - that could happen as early as next week.
Green and a number of others, including the club's former owner Craig Whyte, were arrested and charged earlier this month following an investigation by Police Scotland into off field events at the club in 2012 and 2013.
It's understood the fees involved could reach in excess of £500,000.

[CropleyWasGod]

Charles Green taking The Rangers to court according to BBC. Wants his legal fees paid. Got to admire his brass neck. Love it if The new club are billed £500k

BBC Scotland has learned the former Rangers chief executive Charles Green is taking the club to court in a bid get them to pay his legal fees after he was charged with serious organised crime offences relating to his time at Ibrox.
http://ichef.bbci.co.uk/live-experience/cps/480/cpsprodpb/13ED/production/_85710150_green_livingston.jpg
BBC
Green claims his contract with the club entitled him to legal cover during and after his spell in charge. Lawyers acting on Green's behalf have written to the club and want a court ruling to clarify the situation - that could happen as early as next week.
Green and a number of others, including the club's former owner Craig Whyte, were arrested and charged earlier this month following an investigation by Police Scotland into off field events at the club in 2012 and 2013.
It's understood the fees involved could reach in excess of £500,000.





That's beautiful :greengrin

What we want here is the Court to say to Rangers.... "stick £500k aside in a separate account, and we can have the case heard next year sometime."

:cb

[PatHead]

That's beautiful :greengrin

What we want here is the Court to say to Rangers.... "stick £500k aside in a separate account, and we can have the case heard next year sometime."

:cb

Do they have £500k to put aside? :greengrin

[Platinum Scotty]

Do they have £500k to put aside? :greengrin

one would doubt it and lets be honest, the fees will probably rise considerably as the due process is followed - hahaha

[CropleyWasGod]

Do they have £500k to put aside? :greengrin

One would expect a company the size of Rangers to have an insurance policy to cover such eventualities.

:greengrin

In the meantime, they have to find the cash to pay their own lawyers to defend the action. ...................

[jacomo]

That's beautiful :greengrin

What we want here is the Court to say to Rangers.... "stick £500k aside in a separate account, and we can have the case heard next year sometime."

:cb

Well, Chuckie no doubt wrote his own contract so he would know what's in it. Just fabulous.

[Hibernia&Alba]

Charles Green taking The Rangers to court according to BBC. Wants his legal fees paid. Got to admire his brass neck. Love it if The new club are billed £500k

BBC Scotland has learned the former Rangers chief executive Charles Green is taking the club to court in a bid get them to pay his legal fees after he was charged with serious organised crime offences relating to his time at Ibrox.
http://ichef.bbci.co.uk/live-experience/cps/480/cpsprodpb/13ED/production/_85710150_green_livingston.jpg
BBC
Green claims his contract with the club entitled him to legal cover during and after his spell in charge. Lawyers acting on Green's behalf have written to the club and want a court ruling to clarify the situation - that could happen as early as next week.
Green and a number of others, including the club's former owner Craig Whyte, were arrested and charged earlier this month following an investigation by Police Scotland into off field events at the club in 2012 and 2013.
It's understood the fees involved could reach in excess of £500,000.





That guy is a total weirdo and a charlatan, just like Whyte, which is deeply pleasing.

[MrSmith]

That guy is a total weirdo and a charlatan, just like Whyte, which is deeply pleasing.



It it is all so ridiculous and frightening in that our football ruling bodies sit back and do nothing! This is the state of our game where the SPFL/SFA will not get involved because they Know they will be exposed for the corrupt associations they where in a previous name and now going forward! I so wish EUFA would just ban our entire associations! I absolutely detest football in Scotland because of the parochial governing bodies!

[Weststandwanab]

It it is all so ridiculous and frightening in that our football ruling bodies sit back and do nothing! This is the state of our game where the SPFL/SFA will not get involved because they Know they will be exposed for the corrupt associations they where in a previous name and now going forward! I so wish EUFA would just ban our entire associations! I absolutely detest football in Scotland and the parochial governing bodies!

Well there is no sitting on a fence with that comment
I almost share it though you have a fair point.

[Deansy]

One would expect a company the size of Rangers to have an insurance policy to cover such eventualities.

:greengrin

In the meantime, they have to find the cash to pay their own lawyers to defend the action. ...................

Let's be honest, as soon as their name is mentioned, I'd think any decent, law-abiding business will run a mile before having ANY dealings with them so they might no be covered !!

[BSEJVT]

I think there is almost no chance these guys will go to jail. White collar crime rarely gets punished in Britain.


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What utter horse ****.

You have more chance of going to jail for defrauding someone than you have of battering them.

Where we might agree is that large scale fraud cases seldom see people do time, probably because the fraud perpetrated is too complex for the police to provide a case simple enough for the jury to understand.

But plenty small scale fraudsters who have abused positions of trust have done time. It's almost mandatory and little is allowed by way of mitigation.

[CropleyWasGod]

Let's be honest, as soon as their name is mentioned, I'd think any decent, law-abiding business will run a mile before having ANY dealings with them so they might no be covered !!
My tongue was buried in my cheek when I said that [emoji6]

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[AndyM_1875]

Exhibit A. He talks about Preferred Creditors. There are none in Rangers case.

Exhibit B. He talks about Worthingtons being Preferred Creditors. They're not. They can't be.

Exhibit C. He talks about Worthingtons having security. There can't be security without a debt. That whole question was settled a long time ago.

Exhibit D. He talks about the Oldco being an attractive investment, because they might win the Big Tax Case. Even if they do, there are still tens of millions in unpaid debt

Exhibit E. He talks about the assets being transferred back to Oldco, as if it's an easy process. They're already (at least) 2 companies away. Good luck with that.

Beautifully put.

I've said for a long time that the outpourings from the Sellik hysterics are to be treated in exactly the same way you would handle a dog turd.

[Ozyhibby]

http://images.tapatalk-cdn.com/15/09/24/72fe4c86c1c7d611c391858b31296e5f.jpg

Looks like all their former directors will have legal costs covered


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[Jack Hackett]

http://images.tapatalk-cdn.com/15/09/24/72fe4c86c1c7d611c391858b31296e5f.jpg

Looks like all their former directors will have legal costs covered


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Allow me to be the first financially ignorant to ask...Is that specific to The Rangers 2012, or does it pertain to all directors of all companies?

[StevieC]

http://images.tapatalk-cdn.com/15/09/24/72fe4c86c1c7d611c391858b31296e5f.jpg

Looks like all their former directors will have legal costs covered

Is that standard practice? Or did they fully expect there to be legal action against them in the aftermath?

[Ozyhibby]

Allow me to be the first financially ignorant to ask...Is that specific to The Rangers 2012, or does it pertain to all directors of all companies?

I believe that came from the IPO document when they floated.


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[Ozyhibby]

https://johnjamessite.wordpress.com/2015/09/24/the-clear-and-present-danger-of-greens-litigation-costs/


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[grunt]

I've said for a long time that the outpourings from the Sellik hysterics are to be treated in exactly the same way you would handle a dog turd.

Wasn't this particular Celtc hysteric one of those to stick his hand up and say he wanted to buy Hibs?

[grunt]

https://johnjamessite.wordpress.com/2015/09/24/the-clear-and-present-danger-of-greens-litigation-costs/


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Always an entertaining read, but for some reason I get the impression this guy doesn't quite have the financial understanding he implies.

[Jack Hackett]

I believe that came from the IPO document when they floated.


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They made damn sure they shut the door before the horse bolted then :greengrin

[Ozyhibby]

Always an entertaining read, but for some reason I get the impression this guy doesn't quite have the financial understanding he implies.

I never trust any of the info from these guys but don't let that get in the way of an enjoyable read.
What they all do is create uncertainty and that makes it harder for them to get the external finance they need.


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[CropleyWasGod]

Wasn't this particular Celtc hysteric one of those to stick his hand up and say he wanted to buy Hibs?
Yep.

And was shooed away...

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[CropleyWasGod]

Allow me to be the first financially ignorant to ask...Is that specific to The Rangers 2012, or does it pertain to all directors of all companies?
To me, that's from a company's Memorandum and Articles of Association, which are the internal rules for that company. Every company has their own set; smaller companies tend to have similar, standard ones.

It's not clear whether that is from Rangers' Mem and Arts. However, if it is, it makes pleasant reading :)

Rangers' response to the Green action today was quite telling, I thought. They didn't say that Green had.no case. They said that they would defend it vigorously. There's a subtle difference :)

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[Ozyhibby]

To me, that's from a company's Memorandum and Articles of Association, which are the internal rules for that company. Every company has their own set; smaller companies tend to have similar, standard ones.

It's not clear whether that is from Rangers' Mem and Arts. However, if it is, it makes pleasant reading :)

Rangers' response to the Green action today was quite telling, I thought. They didn't say that Green had.no case. They said that they would defend it vigorously. There's a subtle difference :)

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That's what I took from their statement today. [emoji3]
And no mention of the appropriate insurance

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[AndyM_1875]

Wasn't this particular Celtc hysteric one of those to stick his hand up and say he wanted to buy Hibs?

Yep. And Tom Farmer identified him as an absolute spoofer.
Bullet well and truly dodged.

[Bostonhibby]

That's what I took from their statement today. [emoji3]
And no mention of the appropriate insurance

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Nowt unusual about the wording used but highly unusual for there to be no directors and officers cover if indeed there is none. Unless of course no underwriter fancied guaranteeing the fidelity(amongst other risks) of the various fit and proper persons who have piloted the good ship the rangers. The fun begins if the directors had no litigation insurance but the new club is liable for defence costs or any costs incurred by directors in the course of proceedings.

[Andy74]

To me, that's from a company's Memorandum and Articles of Association, which are the internal rules for that company. Every company has their own set; smaller companies tend to have similar, standard ones.

It's not clear whether that is from Rangers' Mem and Arts. However, if it is, it makes pleasant reading :)

Rangers' response to the Green action today was quite telling, I thought. They didn't say that Green had.no case. They said that they would defend it vigorously. There's a subtle difference :)

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There must be the usual exclusions on wrongdoings though?

[CropleyWasGod]

There must be the usual exclusions on wrongdoings no though?
That may well be in the next paragraph. ... the one we're not shown [emoji6]

That said, if CG wrote the Mem and Arts himself, maybe not. ....
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[Ozyhibby]

Rangers FC board 2012-Malcolm Murray (centre) with Financial Director Brian Stockbridge (left), Imran Ahmad of Zeus Capital and CEO Charles Green (right).
THE old Rangers board signed a severance deal with Charles Green agreeing to pay his legal costs if he was ever accused of being a criminal, the former chief executive claims.

Green, 62, is accused of obtaining “many millions of pounds” through fraud during his time at Ibrox. He is now seeking £500,000 from the club to fund his criminal defence.

Court papers served at Ibrox by lawyers acting for Green claim Rangers must cover the legal bills for his defence against fraud charges relating to his takeover, share issues and running of the club.

Green is demanding the cost of his criminal defence “without limitation”, along with the bill for solicitors, senior and junior counsel and expert witnesses.


He is also demanding that the club pay for the cost of his action to try to force them to pay his criminal defence costs.


The papers were served on Rangers after the club knocked back pleas from Green’s lawyers to bankroll his court costs.

The club will be given just three days to defend the action once the papers are formally lodged at the Court of Session.

If they fail to challenge it, the legal move could be granted.

This month, Green appeared in court on charges relating to conspiracy, fraud, serious organised crime and a breach of the Companies Act.

VIEW GALLERY
Last night, Rangers vowed to fight his action over legal fees.

Chairman Dave King said: “Charles Green approached the club prior to his arrest and demanded that we pay his
legal costs in respect of his co-operation with police in its criminal investigation into his time as an officer of the club.

“I advised him that we would not do so.

“He was subsequently arrested and has now approached the court to compel the club to pay the legal costs of his defence to the criminal charges.

“This application will be strongly resisted.”

It’s the latest twist in a complex web of criminal and civil court battles centred on Rangers.

Green’s summons claims a Compromise Agreement approved by the former Rangers board on his departure from the club in April 2013 means they are contractually bound to pay his legal costs to defend criminal action started against him “on or around September 1”.

VIEW GALLERY Duff and Phelps joint administrator David Whitehouse joins Charles Green (right) in addressing the media after having his consortium's bid for Rangers accepted. May 2012
It goes on: “Reasonable professional costs include the cost of instruction of solicitors, senior and junior counsel and such expert witnesses, if any, as senior counsel advises are necessary.”

In a final clause, Green demands that the club must also pay his legal fees in raising the writ at the Court of Session.

The writ states that former chief executive Green has been “the subject of threats of violence from members of the public”

As a result, Green’s address is given as his solicitors – DAC Beachcroft Scotland LLP at 125 West Regent Street, Glasgow.

Malcolm Murray was chairman at Ibrox when Green’s consortium purchased the club’s assets for £5.5million in June 2012.

He was still in that role when Green’s Compromise Agreement was approved in April 2013. Murray stepped down that May.

VIEW GALLERY David Somers: Arrived November 2013, left March 2015. Resigned yesterday as Rangers chairman. After a career in fund management, supporters hoped he would bring investment to the club but his tenure was described by one fans' group as "inept".
The relevant clause states: “The company will pay any reasonable professional (including, without limitation, legal and accounting) costs and expenses properly incurred by the employee after the date of this agreement which arise from his having to defend, or appear in any administrative, regulatory, judicial or quasi-judicial proceedings by a third party as
a result of his having been chief executive of Rangers Football Club or the company.”

In this case, the “third party” would be criminal prosecutors from the Crown Office.

Green is one of seven people facing criminal charges covering fraud and organised crime over the meltdown of Rangers from 2012. The club went into administration and subsequent forced liquidation by HMRC over a “phantom” £80million tax bill, The club were later cleared of having ever owed the taxman.

The club’s assets were bought by Green’s Sevco company.

The writ lays bare the criminal charges faced by Green.It says: “He is accused of participating in a fraudulent scheme to acquire the business and assets of Rangers Football Club for Sevco Scotland at less than their true value.

“He is accused of conducting a fraudulent initial pubic offering by which substantial equity capital was raised.

“The defender and/or Sevco Scotland received the fruits of that conduct in the form of the acquisition of the business and assets of Rangers and the funds raised by means of the initial public offering.”

Green’s bill to defend the charges is likely to be astronomical.

The writ says: “The criminal proceedings are extremely complex. The charges extend to 20 pages of narrative.

“The indictment indicates in excess of 1000 documentary productions and in excess of 250 witnesses.

“The pursuer is accused of fraudulently obtaining assets worth many millions of pounds.”

It is understood the figure relates to the £22million share issue raised after Green’s takeover and appeal to fans for funding.

The writ adds: “If convicted, a substantial custodial sentence is likely.

“The proceedings are likely to be the most high-profile criminal trial held in Scotland in recent years.”

Yorkshireman Green was arrested on September 1 and appeared at Glasgow Sheriff Court the following day.

On September 16, an indictment was served on him. A preliminary hearing is due to take place at the High Court in Glasgow on October 16.

Indictments were also served on former Rangers owner Craig Whyte, ex-commercial director Imran Ahmad and former administrators David Whitehouse and Paul Clark, along with David Grier and Gary Withey.

Whyte, Clark and Whitehouse were also charged with involvement in serious organised crime.


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[Jack]

I would imagine Craig Whyte and Imran Ahmad will be similarly covered for legal expenses.

[Ozyhibby]

I would imagine Craig Whyte and Imran Ahmad will be similarly covered for legal expenses.

Craig Whyte has never been a director of the new Rangers so he won't be.
Ahmed might be though. It seems to be that it was part of his severance deal so it might depend on what Ahmed negotiated.
One thing is for sure, Charlie won't get cheap lawyers and the case is massive. New Rangers liability here could be huge.
And there does not appear to be an insurance policy to cover it. [emoji3]


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[Bostonhibby]

Craig Whyte has never been a director of the new Rangers so he won't be.
Ahmed might be though. It seems to be that it was part of his severance deal so it might depend on what Ahmed negotiated.
One thing is for sure, Charlie won't get cheap lawyers and the case is massive. New Rangers liability here could be huge.
And there does not appear to be an insurance policy to cover it. [emoji3]


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So this may give dodgy Dave the chance to go bust again to avoid a seriously expensive liability, and shaft a few more innocent creditors along the way.

Problem might be his inability to shake off Mike Ashley the secured creditor. Rock and a hard place, keep up the good work Charlie-fit and proper person and former saviour of the rangers[emoji1] [emoji1]

[Jim44]

"THE old Rangers board signed a severance deal with Charles Green agreeing to pay his legal costs if he was ever accused of being a criminal, the former chief executive claims."


Is this common practice? Honour among thieves,eh? :greengrin

[CropleyWasGod]

There's a fair bit of confusion here, not for the first time :)

Ozy posted something from someone's Mem and Arts. The BBC said that the legal deal was in Green's contract. The Record is saying that it was part of his severance package.

They're all different things. If CG has been smart, the deal will be in all 3 :)

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[Ozyhibby]

https://johnjamessite.wordpress.com/2015/09/25/greens-litigation-cover-could-include-defending-an-investors-class-action-suit-re-ipo/


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[CropleyWasGod]

https://johnjamessite.wordpress.com/2015/09/25/greens-litigation-cover-could-include-defending-an-investors-class-action-suit-re-ipo/


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How does he know that there is no insurance in place?

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[greenginger]

https://johnjamessite.wordpress.com/2015/09/25/greens-litigation-cover-could-include-defending-an-investors-class-action-suit-re-ipo/


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Does it not read that the cost of criminal prosecution defence is only met if green is found not guilty.

[Ozyhibby]

How does he know that there is no insurance in place?

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I've no idea but if there was Insurance in place, wouldn't new Rangers be sanguine about Greens claim, knowing that the insurance would cover it?


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[Ozyhibby]

Does it not read that the cost of criminal prosecution defence is only met if green is found not guilty.

Probably but the decision could be years away but the lawyers bills will need paid now.
Someone will no doubt correct me but I think new Rangers pay for the defence but reclaim from Green if he is found guilty. Could be wrong but right now he is innocent and feels he needs his legal bills paid by new Rangers.


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[PatHead]

Looking at this in the real world, rather than the strange world belonging to Sevco, it is not unreasonable for a senior employee or director to be protected in this way in case someone took them to court for decisions made whilst they were in charge. The allegations could be unrealistic so the accused must have the means to protect themselves by employing lawyers to defend them. As said above most firms would have legal cover for these instances.

However we live in this strange parallel universe inhabited by the west coast media and The Rangers so we maybe have to look through the trees to see the wood.

At this time Green is innocent of any charges and has the right to defend himself to the best of his ability. His contract says he does not have to bankrupt himself doing so and The Rangers will have to cough up for the time being. It is not his fault if they had no insurance.

If he is found guilty I would assume The Rangers could sue him for the costs but until then.............

BTW I hate how the msm portray the old club as victims of the big bad taxman they were not found innocent of all charges. It is not true.

"The club went into administration and subsequent forced liquidation by HMRC over a “phantom” £80million tax bill, The club were later cleared of having ever owed the taxman."

[dangermouse]

Looking at this in the real world, rather than the strange world belonging to Sevco, it is not unreasonable for a senior employee or director to be protected in this way in case someone took them to court for decisions made whilst they were in charge. The allegations could be unrealistic so the accused must have the means to protect themselves by employing lawyers to defend them. As said above most firms would have legal cover for these instances.

However we live in this strange parallel universe inhabited by the west coast media and The Rangers so we maybe have to look through the trees to see the wood.

At this time Green is innocent of any charges and has the right to defend himself to the best of his ability. His contract says he does not have to bankrupt himself doing so and The Rangers will have to cough up for the time being. It is not his fault if they had no insurance.

If he is found guilty I would assume The Rangers could sue him for the costs but until then.............

BTW I hate how the msm portray the old club as victims of the big bad taxman they were not found innocent of all charges. It is not true.

"The club went into administration and subsequent forced liquidation by HMRC over a “phantom” £80million tax bill, The club were later cleared of having ever owed the taxman."

I thought it was non payment of VAT that caused the administration so they did owe the taxman

[AndyM_1875]

I thought it was non payment of VAT that caused the administration so they did owe the taxman

Correct. They do owe the tax man both in respect of VAT and the Wee Tax Case which is a share option thing from 2000-2003 used against the contracts of two players. Minus HMRC's penalties in total they owe about £9m.

The BTC is HMRC chasing a precedent they can use to chase other Companies for backdated taxes although right now the Tax man is 0-2 down and it's not exactly looking hopeful for them.

[Lago]

Yep. And Tom Farmer identified him as an absolute spoofer.
Bullet well and truly dodged.
We have a lot to thank Sir Tom Farmer for.

[Ozyhibby]

We have a lot to thank Sir Tom Farmer for.

Aye, we're blessed to have Rod Petrie right enough.


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[AndyM_1875]

Aye, we're blessed to have Rod Petrie right enough.


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Rod Petrie or David Low... Hmm.... the Tache or the Fantasist?

[Ozyhibby]

Rod Petrie or David Low... Hmm.... the Tache or the Fantasist?

A grim choice right enough.


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[Lago]

Aye, we're blessed to have Rod Petrie right enough.


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:rolleyes:

[jgl07]

We have a lot to thank Sir Tom Farmer for.
He saw through Brian Kennedy as well.

Just in case you don't realise the escape that Hibs had look at Stockport County who he did take over. Back then they used to move between the second and third tier of English football. Now they are in the struggling in the sixth tier and having to rent their own ground.

[Ozyhibby]

https://johnjamessite.wordpress.com/2015/10/01/the-obsession-with-rangers/


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[Ozyhibby]

http://www.philmacgiollabhain.ie/a-disturbance-in-the-fitba-multiverse/


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[jacomo]

http://www.philmacgiollabhain.ie/a-disturbance-in-the-fitba-multiverse/


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Interesting gossip from both this radge and the Rangers guy, but only relevant to us if it causes a slump in results. It is just possible that a wee blip in form for The Rangers + cost cuts to 1st team squad facilities + failure to strengthen in January will cause them deeper problems. Here's hoping.

I've said elsewhere that I think our team will improve over the season. We've got competition for places, injured players to come back, and last term AS got the team looking stronger throughout the winter. In other words, we have to keep the faith.

[magpie1892]

http://www.philmacgiollabhain.ie/a-disturbance-in-the-fitba-multiverse/

He self-describes as a journalist but doesn't seem to understand that no paper is going to print a story saying 'Sevco might go pop again'.

[JeMeSouviens]

Correct. They do owe the tax man both in respect of VAT and the Wee Tax Case which is a share option thing from 2000-2003 used against the contracts of two players. Minus HMRC's penalties in total they owe about £9m.

The BTC is HMRC chasing a precedent they can use to chase other Companies for backdated taxes although right now the Tax man is 0-2 down and it's not exactly looking hopeful for them.

Even if what the Old Huns did is eventually declared mostly legal by tenuous loophole, they still pursued an immoral policy of aggressive tax avoidance that HMRC is obliged to go after. Therefore they laid themselves open to everything that came to them. They tried to fund overspending by ripping off the rest of us (taxpayers).

So no sympathy for the *******s! :na na:

[AndyM_1875]

Even if what the Old Huns did is eventually declared mostly legal by tenuous loophole, they still pursued an immoral policy of aggressive tax avoidance that HMRC is obliged to go after. Therefore they laid themselves open to everything that came to them. They tried to fund overspending by ripping off the rest of us (taxpayers).

So no sympathy for the *******s! :na na:

Rangers get no sympathy from me (horrible club) but there is nothing tenuous about what they did. It was legal and no amounts of spoofery and fake outrage from unqualified muppets like Mad Phil changes that.
It is the alleged bungled application of it by Rangers that is the issue on the BTC and right now the Tax Man is losing 0-2.

Whether or not Tax Avoidance (itself not a crime) is immoral is another debate entirely and not really relevant as there isn't any shortage of companies in the UK that will not seek to reduce tax liability if they have the option and if it is possible and legal.

[Ozyhibby]

Rangers get no sympathy from me (horrible club) but there is nothing tenuous about what they did. It was legal and no amounts of spoofery and fake outrage from unqualified muppets like Mad Phil changes that.
It is the alleged bungled application of it by Rangers that is the issue on the BTC and right now the Tax Man is losing 0-2.

Whether or not Tax Avoidance (itself not a crime) is immoral is another debate entirely and not really relevant as there isn't any shortage of companies in the UK that will not seek to reduce tax liability if they have the option and if it is possible and legal.

The wee tax case was ruled illegal and the side letters were against the rules of Football.


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[PatHead]

Rangers get no sympathy from me (horrible club) but there is nothing tenuous about what they did. It was legal and no amounts of spoofery and fake outrage from unqualified muppets like Mad Phil changes that.
It is the alleged bungled application of it by Rangers that is the issue on the BTC and right now the Tax Man is losing 0-2.

Whether or not Tax Avoidance (itself not a crime) is immoral is another debate entirely and not really relevant as there isn't any shortage of companies in the UK that will not seek to reduce tax liability if they have the option and if it is possible and legal.

Remember the old club did get found guilty for some cases just not the "big one". So they were guilt of not paying tax and used that to their advantage. Don't fall for the "victims" spin put out by the MSM.

Edit See Ozzy has beaten me to my comments. Glad I am not the only way who thinks like that.

[Ozyhibby]

https://johnjamessite.wordpress.com/2015/10/02/shakespeare-in-the-park/


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[JeMeSouviens]

Rangers get no sympathy from me (horrible club) but there is nothing tenuous about what they did. It was legal and no amounts of spoofery and fake outrage from unqualified muppets like Mad Phil changes that.
It is the alleged bungled application of it by Rangers that is the issue on the BTC and right now the Tax Man is losing 0-2.

Whether or not Tax Avoidance (itself not a crime) is immoral is another debate entirely and not really relevant as there isn't any shortage of companies in the UK that will not seek to reduce tax liability if they have the option and if it is possible and legal.

If it wasn't tenuous, HMRC wouldn't have been able to bring a claim in the first place. If you're going to play that far on the edge of the law, then you need deep pockets in case you have to defend yourself.

Which the Old Huns didn't have. Ha ha. :wink:

[AndyM_1875]

Remember the old club did get found guilty for some cases just not the "big one". So they were guilt of not paying tax and used that to their advantage. Don't fall for the "victims" spin put out by the MSM.

Edit See Ozzy has beaten me to my comments. Glad I am not the only way who thinks like that.

My point was in relation to the BTC, the Tax Avoidance scheme. The wee Tax case isn't even up for debate. They owe on that.

I'm not interested in spin of any sort whether its the "we need Rangers" drivel from the compliant lackeys in the MSM and certainly not the tear stained, spittle fuelled, outbursts of utter futility from Phil, Clumpany & the various other Sellik minded simpletons.

I like my information untainted & factual which is why I enjoy CWG's posts on this thread.

[grunt]

I like my information untainted & factual which is why I enjoy CWG's posts on this thread.Slurp! :greengrin

[greenginger]

My point was in relation to the BTC, the Tax Avoidance scheme. The wee Tax case isn't even up for debate. They owe on that.

I'm not interested in spin of any sort whether its the "we need Rangers" drivel from the compliant lackeys in the MSM and certainly not the tear stained, spittle fuelled, outbursts of utter futility from Phil, Clumpany & the various other Sellik minded simpletons.

I like my information untainted & factual which is why I enjoy CWG's posts on this thread.

Much as I appreciate CWGs posts I don't think they have the same coverage as the bloggers you mention, and with the continual highlighting of the inconsistencies of 2012 events the court case may never have got going. The msm were never going to raise it.

BDO got away with their dishonest scam when they confirmed Hearts CVA because nobody, out with few posters on here , were interested.

[AndyM_1875]

Much as I appreciate CWGs posts I don't think they have the same coverage as the bloggers you mention, and with the continual highlighting of the inconsistencies of 2012 events the court case may never have got going. The msm were never going to raise it.


I'd perhaps pay attention to these bloggers and not treat them with contempt if they didn't come out with outright lies and I hadn't realized long ago that they were trying to sell me something.