Generic Sevco / Rangers meltdown thread

[HoboHarry]

A strange one for Celtic though.

A "dominated" Rangers would be lucky to get about 5000 people to go to their games regularly. None of their fans would want to go to see them get regularly pumped by Celtic. So what's the point having them up there making up the numbers? In Celtic's eyes they'd become just another diddy team.

Celtic need them to be strong - just a wee bit less strong than Celtic.

Imo Celtic would be as well having Rangers out the picture altogether.
I agree with you - I've never understood this myth that's being perpetuated about Celtic trying to get Rangers back in the SPL. It would serve no purpose unless Rangers invested hugely in their squad and they do not have the cash to do that. Rangers as they presently are would be cannon fodder in the SPL over the course of a season.

[Cropley10]

Onerous contracts will be expunged by Admin2.
This time they would have to get it right.

I have a feeling King will reappear. This time he will have to show he's is not 'all fart & nae *****' as my dear auld Leith granny used to say.

Hate to disagree but Admin - this companies first of course - apparently won't expunge onerous contracts.

I'm not familiar with the details BUT on the basis they were written by Charlie for the benefit of Charlie and his pals there's no reason why they haven't been written in a watertight way...

If true, this is the Clumpany's dilema - the Spivs will continue to bleed them dry unless they press reset.

[CropleyWasGod]

Hate to disagree but Admin - this companies first of course - apparently won't expunge onerous contracts.

I'm not familiar with the details BUT on the basis they were written by Charlie for the benefit of Charlie and his pals there's no reason why they haven't been written in a watertight way...

If true, this is the Clumpany's dilema - the Spivs will continue to bleed them dry unless they press reset.

As I said earlier, I would be very surprised if the contracts couldn't be cancelled by the administrator.

The likelihood is that the amounts payable under those contracts would be added to the creditors. If they have no security, they would then rank behind Ashley .

[Ozyhibby]

Why haven't they had a serious go at a fan ownership model? For a club of that size it's feasible, but instead they allow themselves to be butchered by the likes of Whyte, Green, Ashley. If they got organized, they could do it, especially now.

They all hate each other. And themselves. It manifests itself in their behaviour.

[Crazyhorse]

They did, as did Pompey. Assets, brands etc moved to new operating companies & old holding Companies liquidated. CWG may know more with regards to the specifics though.
I can't blame the MSM for not going down that road though as It's a pointless argument, a complete waste of time. People follow teams, not corporate registrations.

Other countries, like Belgium, are different - and maybe more honest about this? - mainly because each club was given a matriculation number on registration. As far as I remember when I lived in Belgium when a team pulled the Ardrie trick they look on the number and history of the club they bought over (and their number was deleted). My local club in Antwerp Beerschot lost their 7 league titles when they took over Germinal in the 1990s - they got Germinal rather un-illustrious history instead! AFAIK when a club liquidated they have to reapply for a new FA number. No club can prance about pretending to be 140 years old when it has the latest matriculation number to be issued.

[AndyM_1875]

I agree with you - I've never understood this myth that's being perpetuated about Celtic trying to get Rangers back in the SPL. It would serve no purpose unless Rangers invested hugely in their squad and they do not have the cash to do that. Rangers as they presently are would be cannon fodder in the SPL over the course of a season.

I do.

Celtic need Rangers back because they have an annual £10m hole in their accounts. They see themselves as a Champions League side therefore that demands a certain level of squad quality. To attract players they need to have a selling point (CL football and guaranteed matches against Rangers sell that) thus To afford those ambitions they need Old Firm games which are revenue generators. Even when Rangers were mince in the early 80s the Old Firm games were sell outs.

[CropleyWasGod]

Other countries, like Belgium, are different - and maybe more honest about this? - mainly because each club was given a matriculation number on registration. As far as I remember when I lived in Belgium when a team pulled the Ardrie trick they look on the number and history of the club they bought over (and their number was deleted). My local club in Antwerp Beerschot lost their 7 league titles when they took over Germinal in the 1990s - they got Germinal rather un-illustrious history instead! AFAIK when a club liquidated they have to reapply for a new FA number. No club can prance about pretending to be 140 years old when it has the latest matriculation number to be issued.

Do the supporters of Beerschot believe they're supporting the same team?

[Cropley10]

It will be interesting in admin 2 to find out if Ibrox or Murray Park have securities on them?

Looking back at the Prospectus last year it said something like there may be securities against Ibrox & MP but we've not seen anything to confirm or deny.

[HoboHarry]

I do.

Celtic need Rangers back because they have an annual £10m hole in their accounts. They see themselves as a Champions League side therefore that demands a certain level of squad quality. To attract players they need to have a selling point (CL football and guaranteed matches against Rangers sell that) thus To afford those ambitions they need Old Firm games which are revenue generators. Even when Rangers were mince in the early 80s the Old Firm games were sell outs.
Two home games against Rangers every season isn't going to fix a 10 million black hole.

[stokesmessiah]

Two home games against Rangers every season isn't going to fix a 10 million black hole.

It is not just the games against rangers though, the Celtic fans know the league is won on day one and their fan base has dwindled. Rangers brings interest and fans back.

[Crazyhorse]

Do the supporters of Beerschot believe they're supporting the same team?

No idea but I notice from Wiki that Germinal Beerschot played with a 1999 badge and listed 2 cup victories as their honours (one as G and one as GB), This team went bust in 2013 but immediately reformed as Beerschot Wilrijk and is now playing with a 2013 badge, it doesn't pretend to have any honours. All these teams have played in the old Olympic stadium in Antwerp watched by the same longsuffering fairly large support.

[HoboHarry]

It is not just the games against rangers though, the Celtic fans know the league is won on day one and their fan base has dwindled. Rangers brings interest and fans back.
The same would be true if Rangers were in the league right now IMHO. Rangers are very poor and miles away from where Celtic are in terms of quality, and I am failing to see where the quantity of cash they require is going to come from? After getting pasted twice the Rangers fans wouldn't go back and we would be back to where we are now. I genuinely hope that Celtic crush them in the cup - that will silence a lot of what I see is nonsense about the dynamic of the SPL changing significantly should Rangers be promoted....

[CropleyWasGod]

No idea but I notice from Wiki that Germinal Beerschot played with a 1999 badge and listed 2 cup victories as their honours (one as G and one as GB), This team went bust in 2013 but immediately reformed as Beerschot Wilrijk and is now playing with a 2013 badge, it doesn't pretend to have any honours. All these teams have played in the old Olympic stadium in Antwerp watched by the same longsuffering fairly large support.

Cheers.

The emotional argument has more weight for me if the supporters believe it's the same team.

[Smartie]

It is not just the games against rangers though, the Celtic fans know the league is won on day one and their fan base has dwindled. Rangers brings interest and fans back.

A seriously wounded Rangers offers nothing extra though. 2 games to horse their rivals - fair enough, there's some appeal there but not enough to fill a £10m black hole. They would be just another diddy team. That's not going to sell £10m worth of season tickets.

The real cash for Celtic is in the Champions league and a strong Rangers would jeopardise their chances of getting their hands on that loot - way too risky for them to contemplate imo.

What is the general feeling amongst Celtic fans? Do they want them dead and gone or do they want the OF games back? That may influence what the Celtic board really want too.

[CropleyWasGod]

Looking back at the Prospectus last year it said something like there may be securities against Ibrox & MP but we've not seen anything to confirm or deny.



The securities held by MA are shown in the accounts and at Companies House.

That is all the securities there are, other than standard ones on leased equipment.

[AndyM_1875]

Two home games against Rangers every season isn't going to fix a 10 million black hole.

In terms of gate receipts alone it's not.

But if Celtic are playing Rangers there's a number of things that come into play.
1 Sold out hospitality. You won't sell £750 a plate packages for Kilmarnock or Ross County. Celtic will bank over £1m per Rangers game in hospitality.
2 live on Sky - increased TV deal.
3 Media Rights
4 increased interest from fans. Celtic currently play with the top tier are Celtic Park closed most games.

[AndyM_1875]

What is the general feeling amongst Celtic fans? Do they want them dead and gone or do they want the OF games back? That may influence what the Celtic board really want too.

It's mixed IMHO.

The ones who lap up Phil McGobbledygook & his hysterical agendas want Rangers destroyed completely. Whereas The old school guys who grew up watching Steins teams or players like Paul McStay miss the Old Firm game and want it back. The Glasgow guys who work together with their bluenose mates generally think enough is enough and it's time Rangers come back.

[Spike Mandela]

It's mixed IMHO.

The ones who lap up Phil McGobbledygook & his hysterical agendas want Rangers destroyed completely. Whereas The old school guys who grew up watching Steins teams or players like Paul McStay miss the Old Firm game and want it back. The Glasgow guys who work together with their bluenose mates generally think enough is enough and it's time Rangers come back.

You are more passionate about Rangers being back than any Celtic fan I know, or indeed, many Rangers fans.:devil:

[AndyM_1875]

You are more passionate about Rangers being back than any Celtic fan I know, or indeed, many Rangers fans.:devil:

Aye but who's YOUR REAL big team eh? ;-)

[KeithTheHibby]

Just so I understand was Ashley trying to gain more than 29.9% stake in order to loan Rangers more money in a debt for equity type scenario?
As that avenue has now been blocked can I assume he can loan the company more money however this would need to shown in the accounts as a creditor? Would this make him less likely to put in more money incase the big A comes around and he gets diddly squat in the pound? Or can he ensure his loans are secured on say Ibrox?
Appreciated in advance the answers!

[CropleyWasGod]

Just so I understand was Ashley trying to gain more than 29.9% stake in order to loan Rangers more money in a debt for equity type scenario?
As that avenue has now been blocked can I assume he can loan the company more money however this would need to shown in the accounts as a creditor? Would this make him less likely to put in more money incase the big A comes around and he gets diddly squat in the pound? Or can he ensure his loans are secured on say Ibrox?
Appreciated in advance the answers!
He was trying to increase his stake in the company TO 29.9%.

By continuing with, and adding to, the secured loans, if administration happens he will rank first before any other creditor.

[KeithTheHibby]

He was trying to increase his stake in the company TO 29.9%.

By continuing with, and adding to, the secured loans, if administration happens he will rank first before any other creditor.

Clever cookie. He really has got them by the short and curlies. I wonder what his agenda really is?

[CropleyWasGod]

Clever cookie. He really has got them by the short and curlies. I wonder what his agenda really is?
Still trying to work that out.

Ballengeich had a decent shout earlier in the thread, which is worth a read. I think it might be about getting hold of the properties.

[StevieC]

Clever cookie. He really has got them by the short and curlies. I wonder what his agenda really is?

Ashley is all about Sports Direct, any agenda will probably hinge round the benefits for this company (or a simple money making opportunity).

I can't see him swapping the boardrooms of the Premiership for Paisley/Kilmarnock/Dingwall at the weekend so he's unlikely to be a "hands-on" chairman any time soon.

[lapsedhibee]

Ashley is all about Sports Direct, any agenda will probably hinge round the benefits for this company (or a simple money making opportunity).

I can't see him swapping the boardrooms of the Premiership for Paisley/Kilmarnock/Dingwall at the weekend so he's unlikely to be a "hands-on" chairman any time soon.

:confused: All three of those teams can't go down at the end of the season, can they? Shirley two at most? :dunno:

[weonlywon6-2]

Ashley wants rangers cause it will be far easier to get them into Europe and winning things than it will be Newcastle.
for a lot less outlay he could be quids in.

[brog]

The same would be true if Rangers were in the league right now IMHO. Rangers are very poor and miles away from where Celtic are in terms of quality, and I am failing to see where the quantity of cash they require is going to come from? After getting pasted twice the Rangers fans wouldn't go back and we would be back to where we are now. I genuinely hope that Celtic crush them in the cup - that will silence a lot of what I see is nonsense about the dynamic of the SPL changing significantly should Rangers be promoted....

I'm with you on this one. If a strong Sevco return to the top division it reduces Celtc's chances of making the Champions' League by 50%. The CL is worth an awful lot more money than 2 games & all other associated income that Sevco bring to the table. I also doubt that the £10m figure quoted by Celtc would stand up to serious scrutiny.

[Ozyhibby]

Ashley wants rangers cause it will be far easier to get them into Europe and winning things than it will be Newcastle.
for a lot less outlay he could be quids in.

Newcastle get more money from TV than Celtic's turnover. Champions league is a nice earner but nothing compared with epl.

[portycabbage]

Newcastle get more money from TV than Celtic's turnover. Champions league is a nice earner but nothing compared with epl.

I think the benefit to Ashley was supposed to be European advertising of Sports Direct, rather than prize money from the competition itself. I've no idea if that is the plan, or if it's a good one.

[CropleyWasGod]

I think the benefit to Ashley was supposed to be European advertising of Sports Direct, rather than prize money from the competition itself. I've no idea if that is the plan, or if it's a good one.
......straight out of the Romanov Manual [emoji1]

[portycabbage]

......straight out of the Romanov Manual [emoji1]

The re-shuffle of the back-room staff reminded me of Romanov too, with Durrant demoted and Durie assisting McDowell - without McDowell (the man they're putting in charge of football matters) getting a say in it.

I see Somers is also in trouble potentially over his email to Ashley's lawyer -

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/sport/football/teams/rangers/11312941/Rangers-chairman-David-Somers-could-face-probe-by-Stock-Market-regulators-for-his-role-in-Mike-Ashley-bid.html

[lord bunberry]

How much is Ashley in for with the Rangers? And at what stage does pumping money into them become unviable? I ask the question as I remember them and the hearts going for relitavely small amounts. If Ashley wants to pick them up for cheap from administration, what's to stop king thinking the same or another with the same idea. Would that not push the price up?

[Ozyhibby]

I think the benefit to Ashley was supposed to be European advertising of Sports Direct, rather than prize money from the competition itself. I've no idea if that is the plan, or if it's a good one.

It's a rubbish idea, the stadium has to be clean for champs league games. The only adverts the club are allowed are on their jerseys.
He would be a lot cheaper just becoming Celtics shirt sponsor.

[Jack]

It's a rubbish idea, the stadium has to be clean for champs league games. The only adverts the club are allowed are on their jerseys.
He would be a lot cheaper just becoming Celtics shirt sponsor.

If home games were played from the Sports Direct (Ibrox) stadium that would be a decent bit of advertising for a quid!

[NORTHERNHIBBY]

What are the chances of 14 or so decent quality Newcastle reserves being parachuted in to the The Rangers first team on partially paid wages?

[southsider]

More chance of any young the rangers starlett going down there on the cheep:na na:

[Crazyhorse]

What are the chances of 14 or so decent quality Newcastle reserves being parachuted in to the The Rangers first team on partially paid wages?

Ah the Romanov model!

I suspect Ashley sees money in this - selling crap gear to the hun hordes. Even if they don't go to games they like to stalk around Glasgow, Belfast etc with their shirts with their fake five stars on them. That isn't going to change anytime soon regardless of how rubbish their team is. Of course if his loans are secured against Ibrox and associated property he will make money regardless what happens.

[Jack]

Ah the Romanov model!

I suspect Ashley sees money in this - selling crap gear to the hun hordes. Even if they don't go to games they like to stalk around Glasgow, Belfast etc with their shirts with their fake five stars on them. That isn't going to change anytime soon regardless of how rubbish their team is. Of course if his loans are secured against Ibrox and associated property he will make money regardless what happens.

To be honest since Rangers went into liquidation the number of sevco tops I've seen, home and abroad, has crashed. I don't know what the actual numbers are or if others think the same but it's been quite noticeable to me.

I'm not in the least disappointed :-)

[Callum_62]

On this Christmas day, lets just rewind to remember how brilliant Charles Green really was:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PMZHet7wwXo#t=179

[Crazyhorse]

On this Christmas day, lets just rewind to remember how brilliant Charles Green really was:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PMZHet7wwXo#t=179


Cheers mate that was quite special. Brought tears to the eyes.

What a sincere guy I wonder what went wrong?

[ano hibby]

On this Christmas day, lets just rewind to remember how brilliant Charles Green really was:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PMZHet7wwXo#t=179

Aye very good Charles!!!
'Rangers rejuvenating Scottish football'...of course...whatever you think!!!

[Deansy]

On this Christmas day, lets just rewind to remember how brilliant Charles Green really was:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PMZHet7wwXo#t=179


Oh my God - that is just absolutely hilarious !!.

[Spike Mandela]

On this Christmas day, lets just rewind to remember how brilliant Charles Green really was:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PMZHet7wwXo#t=179

Still can't believe they fell for that shyster, what a prick!. :faf: "Hibrox":greengrin

[CropleyWasGod]

http://www.dailyrecord.co.uk/sport/football/football-news/dave-kings-dream-owning-rangers-4875145

[ano hibby]

http://www.dailyrecord.co.uk/sport/football/football-news/dave-kings-dream-owning-rangers-4875145

Interesting twist. Should tie up his time never mind finances for a while.
When these investigations are ongoing is there anything to stop King going on a spending spree, taking what's left of his money in SA, out the country..?

[jacomo]

http://www.dailyrecord.co.uk/sport/football/football-news/dave-kings-dream-owning-rangers-4875145

How did this email from Somers to an Ashley 'associate' get leaked to the media I wonder? Rangers is a nest of snakes.

[portycabbage]

How did this email from Somers to an Ashley 'associate' get leaked to the media I wonder? Rangers is a nest of snakes.

Given that Somers and Ashley are supposedly on the same side (with the Easdales), I'm not sure. But a shareholder has asked for it to be investigated, as the email appears to show Somers putting his own job ahead of the club (in choosing Ashley over King for the loan), as posted further up the page-

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/sport/football/teams/rangers/11312941/Rangers-chairman-David-Somers-could-face-probe-by-Stock-Market-regulators-for-his-role-in-Mike-Ashley-bid.html

[CropleyWasGod]

Given that Somers and Ashley are supposedly on the same side (with the Easdales), I'm not sure. But a shareholder has asked for it to be investigated, as the email appears to show Somers putting his own job ahead of the club (in choosing Ashley over King for the loan), as posted further up the page-

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/sport/football/teams/rangers/11312941/Rangers-chairman-David-Somers-could-face-probe-by-Stock-Market-regulators-for-his-role-in-Mike-Ashley-bid.html
Yet Ashley is reckoned to have voted against the Resolution on the share issue.

Mind is boggled. .....

[PatHead]

Yet Ashley is reckoned to have voted against the Resolution on the share issue.

Mind is boggled. .....

Sommers outstayed his usefulness now the AGM is done?

[CropleyWasGod]

Check out @RetroScot's Tweet: https://twitter.com/RetroScot/status/548521028977459200?s=09

[AndyM_1875]

How did this email from Somers to an Ashley 'associate' get leaked to the media I wonder? Rangers is a nest of snakes.

**cough Ally cough cough**

[Hermit Crab]

Check out @RetroScot's Tweet: https://twitter.com/RetroScot/status/548521028977459200?s=09

What does this mean then, Admin looming?

[Billy Whizz]

What does this mean then, Admin looming?

Think it means there's a lot of shenanigans going on

[Hermit Crab]

Think it means there's a lot of shenanigans going on

They will worm out of it.

[Billy Whizz]

They will worm out of it.

If it's not Ashley who takes them forward, going to have a problem with a few revenue steams though

[bingo70]

They will worm out of it.

I don't think that link suggested anything about admin, my take on it was just that Ashley us making a mint out of them for very little.

Don't understand the constant £1 ref though, surely he took on lots of debt that equates to a lot more than £1?

[CropleyWasGod]

I don't think that link suggested anything about admin, my take on it was just that Ashley us making a mint out of them for very little.

Don't understand the constant £1 ref though, surely he took on lots of debt that equates to a lot more than £1?
He didn't take on any debt. They owe him £3m though.

[grunt]

BBCBMcLauchlin ‏@BBCBMcLauchlin 2m2 minutes ago (https://twitter.com/BBCBMcLauchlin/status/548599154860392450) George Letham, George Taylor and Douglas Park offer Rangers £6.5million alternative to Mike Ashley investment#bbcsportscot

[Just Alf]

BBCBMcLauchlin ‏@BBCBMcLauchlin 5m5 minutes ago
Messrs Letham, Taylor and Park have given proof of funding to Rangers Chairman David Somers. The SFA are aware of the offer #bbcsportscot


Edit: oops, sorry G... I see you're on the case!

[portycabbage]

http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/football/30605327

[CropleyWasGod]

BBCBMcLauchlin ‏@BBCBMcLauchlin 2m2 minutes ago (https://twitter.com/BBCBMcLauchlin/status/548599154860392450) George Letham, George Taylor and Douglas Park offer Rangers £6.5million alternative to Mike Ashley investment#bbcsportscot
Yeah I just heard that on the radio.

AFAIK., though, the consortium has to wait until the current shareholders decide whether they want to subscribe.

[hibbymick]

Ouch!

http://www.rangersmegastore.com/rangers-league-cup-2015-t-shirt-mens-375155?colcode=37515521

[PatHead]

Ouch!

http://www.rangersmegastore.com/rangers-league-cup-2015-t-shirt-mens-375155?colcode=37515521

Was a big feet for such a new club

[Kato]

M.A.S.H. get a knock-back, suicide is painless.

http://www.londonstockexchange.com/exchange/news/market-news/market-news-detail/12197297.html

[PatHead]

Doesn't look like they have agreed to seats on the board. Wonder if it will go ahead?

http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/football/30634541

"It is understood the board is open to negotiations regarding representation."

[CropleyWasGod]

Doesn't look like they have agreed to seats on the board. Wonder if it will go ahead?

http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/football/30634541

"It is understood the board is open to negotiations regarding representation."

Possibly just an opening gambit. They're "open to negotiations regarding representation. ". They can't just say "yeah, we'll take it. Come on in".

That would sound like they're desperate. Which they're not..... :greengrin

[Ozyhibby]

Looks like Laxey have sold up. Question is, who is the buyer?
£2m spent to buy them out. It's a big move, whoever it is.

[CropleyWasGod]

Looks like Laxey have sold up. Question is, who is the buyer?
£2m spent to buy them out. It's a big move, whoever it is.
Where did you see that?

Edit....seen it now.

[greenginger]

http://www.londonstockexchange.com/exchange/prices-and-markets/stocks/summary/company-summary.html?fourWayKey=GB00B90T9Z75GBGBXASQ1


13.3 million shares punted this morning.

[Col2]

http://www.londonstockexchange.com/exchange/prices-and-markets/stocks/summary/company-summary.html?fourWayKey=GB00B90T9Z75GBGBXASQ1


13.3 million shares punted this morning.

I can't see that from this link - maybe it's obvious to others! If £13.3 m shares sold then that's about £2.5m.

[The Hibee Harp]

I can't see that from this link - maybe it's obvious to others! If £13.3 m shares sold then that's about £2.5m.

More here http://www.dailyrecord.co.uk/sport/football/football-news/rangers-boardroom-latest-laxey-partners-4898356

[grunt]

More here http://www.dailyrecord.co.uk/sport/football/football-news/rangers-boardroom-latest-laxey-partners-4898356

"well-healed"

:grr:

[Radium]

'Three Bears' consortium buys significant shareholding in Rangers http://t.co/JP0MxJfrdw http://t.co/kNwF9hTMGv

[Radium]

Reported by STV

[Spike Mandela]

I take it these guys are all current shareholders with 'first dibs' on new shares as per agm announcement or is this simply current shares sold?

[Col2]

Interesting move. The Rangers need investment, cash, wonga and a fair amount of it. This move doesn't directly help them on that front but makes the 3 little bears the largest shareholders as per reports.

What now? Power struggle with Ashley (who holds all the commercial deals)?

[The Hibee Harp]

Interesting move. The Rangers need investment, cash, wonga and a fair amount of it. This move doesn't directly help them on that front but makes the 3 little bears the largest shareholders as per reports.

What now? Power struggle with Ashley (who holds all the commercial deals)?

Looks likely in my view which could get very, very messy.

[Del Boy]

Rumours of Boyd back to killie

[Weststandwanab]

Interesting move. The Rangers need investment, cash, wonga and a fair amount of it. This move doesn't directly help them on that front but makes the 3 little bears the largest shareholders as per reports.

What now? Power struggle with Ashley (who holds all the commercial deals)?

A racing certainty in my opinion.

[The Hibee Harp]

Rumours of Boyd back to killie

Where did you hear that?

[Billy Whizz]

I'm presuming Laxdales have made a bit of a loss on this?

[Weststandwanab]

I'm presuming Laxdales have made a bit of a loss on this?

The nominal value at issue I think was 70p though the will have got a discount from that price but yes a substantial loss will have been incurred.

[ballengeich]

I'm presuming Laxdales have made a bit of a loss on this?

They made a loss on their initial investment, but not on what they purchased in the recent rights issue. When they increased their holdings at that time, I was surprised, and concluded that they were working on a plan in some informal partnership with Ashley and the group fronted by the Easdales, particularly when Ashley made a subsequent purchase taking the combined holding of the three groups over 50%.

I reckon Laxey have been shafted by either Ashley or the Easdales and have thrown in the towel. The 3 bears now have about 20% of the shares, as at least one was an existing shareholder. If they underwrite the proposed new issue, then if other existing holders don't take their entitlement they could end up with a holding over 29.9% and would have to make an offer for all the other shares, so they could be in full charge quite quickly. For their sakes I hope they can afford the consequences.

[CropleyWasGod]

I take it these guys are all current shareholders with 'first dibs' on new shares as per agm announcement or is this simply current shares sold?
This is the current shares. The new issue hasn't been launched yet.

In other words, no change to their financial situation.

[CropleyWasGod]

Does anyone know if the loan from Letham (aka Mama Bear ) has been repaid?

[Jack Hackett]

Does anyone know if the loan from Letham (aka Mama Bear ) has been repaid?

According to this http://www.telegraph.co.uk/sport/football/teams/rangers/11132422/Rangers-repay-1m-loan-to-supporter-George-Letham-but-may-be-prepared-to-return-for-further-loan-this-season.html it has been

[CropleyWasGod]

According to this http://www.telegraph.co.uk/sport/football/teams/rangers/11132422/Rangers-repay-1m-loan-to-supporter-George-Letham-but-may-be-prepared-to-return-for-further-loan-this-season.html it has been
Cheers .

The politics of this all are mind bending at times.

[Crazyhorse]

Interesting move. The Rangers need investment, cash, wonga and a fair amount of it. This move doesn't directly help them on that front but makes the 3 little bears the largest shareholders as per reports.

What now? Power struggle with Ashley (who holds all the commercial deals)?

Unless Ashley is behind it in some way? Neatly sidestepping the knock back from the SFA. I suppose we will find out shortly.

[Keith_M]

Unless Ashley is behind it in some way? Neatly sidestepping the knock back from the SFA. I suppose we will find out shortly.


He's not, according to the Record.

"The Isle of Man investment group firm were the largest shareholder in the club but has now sold its 16 per cent stake to a consortium made up of Douglas Park, George Letham and George Taylor in a deal worth almost £2.7million."

[Radium]

Lewis MacLeod has today signed for English championship side Brentford for £850,000 on a three and a half year deal, subject to international clearance.
An informed source has told Scotzine that Rangers will not receive a single penny of MacLeod’s transfer fee due to an agreement with Newcastle United owner Mike Ashley. The source told us that: “Condition one of Ashley’s first £1 million loaned was secured against the sale of McLeod in January.”

http://www.scotzine.com/2014/12/brentford-sign-rangers-midfielder-lewis-macleod-for-850k/

[CropleyWasGod]

Lewis MacLeod has today signed for English championship side Brentford for £850,000 on a three and a half year deal, subject to international clearance.
An informed source has told Scotzine that Rangers will not receive a single penny of MacLeod’s transfer fee due to an agreement with Newcastle United owner Mike Ashley. The source told us that: “Condition one of Ashley’s first £1 million loaned was secured against the sale of McLeod in January.”

http://www.scotzine.com/2014/12/brentford-sign-rangers-midfielder-lewis-macleod-for-850k/

S******.

And he still has security over the rest of his loan.

And it's in staged payments, with only half now and the rest over 18 months.

And it probably includes VAT.

:cb

[ACLeith]

Lewis MacLeod has today signed for English championship side Brentford for £850,000 on a three and a half year deal, subject to international clearance.
An informed source has told Scotzine that Rangers will not receive a single penny of MacLeod’s transfer fee due to an agreement with Newcastle United owner Mike Ashley. The source told us that: “Condition one of Ashley’s first £1 million loaned was secured against the sale of McLeod in January.”

http://www.scotzine.com/2014/12/brentford-sign-rangers-midfielder-lewis-macleod-for-850k/

Explains why they sold him rather than the big earners. Maybe Kris Boyd is security against the second loan?

[BSEJVT]

Explains why they sold him rather than the big earners. Maybe Kris Boyd is security against the second loan?

Because nobody else is worth a bolt?

[CropleyWasGod]

Explains why they sold him rather than the big earners. Maybe Kris Boyd is security against the second loan?

They have form for that.

Older readers of this thread may remember the famous "pie loan". Having a loan secured against Boyd ties in with that philosophy.

[ACLeith]

They have form for that.

Older readers of this thread may remember the famous "pie loan". Having a loan secured against Boyd ties in with that philosophy.

:top marks Or maybe 1K XXXL shirts from Sports Direct? :agree:

[ACLeith]

Because nobody else is worth a bolt?

Major reduction in wage bill more important than cash in hand?

[Hibby Bairn]

Lewis MacLeod has today signed for English championship side Brentford for £850,000 on a three and a half year deal, subject to international clearance.
An informed source has told Scotzine that Rangers will not receive a single penny of MacLeod’s transfer fee due to an agreement with Newcastle United owner Mike Ashley. The source told us that: “Condition one of Ashley’s first £1 million loaned was secured against the sale of McLeod in January.”

http://www.scotzine.com/2014/12/brentford-sign-rangers-midfielder-lewis-macleod-for-850k/
Short term loans repaid from asset sales. Brilliant. Working capital remains unchanged whilst player pool diminishes.

Welcome to the real world.

[Hibernia&Alba]

Who are these fuds they're calling the three Bears? I hope they're another bunch of idiots/crooks and the fairytale again turns Brothers Grimm. They can all do porridge with Whyte & co (sevco).

[Weststandwanab]

S******.

And he still has security over the rest of his loan.

And it's in staged payments, with only half now and the rest over 18 months.

And it probably includes VAT.

:cb

Transfers are subject to V.A.T. but it is "usual" to quote an ex V.A.T. price but then it is a desperate Sevco


Because nobody else is worth a bolt?

Pretty much the case.


They have form for that.

Older readers of this thread may remember the famous "pie loan". Having a loan secured against Boyd ties in with that philosophy.

Can you elaborate to us younger chaps in terms of Debits and Credits

[CropleyWasGod]

Who are these fuds they're calling the three Bears? I hope they're another bunch of idiots/crooks and the fairytale again turns Brothers Grimm. They can all do porridge with Whyte & co (sevco).

Sadly, they're not.

Douglas Park is certainly not an idiot. He has a stadium named after him, after all.

Don't know about the others, though.

[Hibernia&Alba]

Sadly, they're not.

Douglas Park is certainly not an idiot. Don't know about the others, though.

FFS. So is the beginning of Rangers turning the corner? Is there a danger the three Huns could gain ownership and actually sort out the mess? Surely not.

[greenginger]

Is he the same Douglas Park that was a Yam director back in Wallet's day ? or maybe son of ?

[CropleyWasGod]

Is he the same Douglas Park that was a Yam director back in Wallet's day ? or maybe son of ?

Think it's the same one, going by the photos.

Otherwise it would be New Douglas Park, no? :greengrin

[CropleyWasGod]

FFS. So is the beginning of Rangers turning the corner? Is there a danger the three Huns could gain ownership and actually sort out the mess? Surely not.

At the moment, they have 20% of the shares between them.

That gives them the option to buy 20% of the new issue. They are also willing to underwrite all of the new issue.

Whether they can get overall control will depend on the attitudes of the other major players to them, their own holdings, and their intentions for the new issue. That's where it gets messy, and the politics take hold. My eyes glaze over at that point.

Time, though, is not on their side.

[Hibernia&Alba]

Any positive news for them is bad news for civilization. Their counter offensive must be stopped.


Not that I'm biased or anything.

[trev the hat]

So zombies sell one of there best players but don't get a bolt of the money & stand off between these 3 & MA whilst almost zero chance of player recruitment in Jan.
I'm liking this kind of deal a lot !!!

[cabbageandribs1875]

Who are these fuds they're calling the three Bears? I hope they're another bunch of idiots/crooks and the fairytale again turns Brothers Grimm. They can all do porridge with Whyte & co (sevco).


seeing as the average hun loves everything english it's probably taken from 'the three lions'

[CropleyWasGod]

Can you elaborate to us younger chaps in terms of Debits and Credits

Boyd has no credit.

[ian cruise]

Is he the same Douglas Park that was a Yam director back in Wallet's day ? or maybe son of ?

Is he not a massive Celtic fan and shareholder at parkhead?

[CropleyWasGod]

Is he not a massive Celtic fan and shareholder at parkhead?

I'd doubt it, otherwise the SFA might be interested :greengrin

[CropleyWasGod]

On PA wires: Laxey partners chairman Colin Kingsnorth confirms he has sold his 16% stake to the Three Bears: "I sold because a fans-based group were hopefully going to be the best placed to take on Ashley's power. After Ashley removed Norman Crighton, Ashley's most vocal critic, it was obvious David Somers was just a wet fish agreeing anything Ashley wanted. I am sure the Three Bears are an upgrade on us for fans and hopefully this is the start of the ownership being in the right hands."

[Weststandwanab]

Boyd has no credit.

Indeed but what is the Hampden Roar with a pie loan ?


Is he not a massive Celtic fan and shareholder at parkhead?

Oh surly not another Ashley scenario !

[CropleyWasGod]

Indeed but what is the Hampden Roar with a pie loan ?





It goes back to the early days of the Rangers administration, when there were so many stories flying around about who had security over what, and for how much. With a simple trawl of Companies House records, it was established that the only people with any security were the company who leased the catering equipment to RFC.

[AlbertK86]

I presume Park is the same Park that has the bus company Park's of Hamilton and has/had a whole string of car dealerships.

If my memory serves me correctly was he not involved in the running of Hamilton Accies at one point

[Weststandwanab]

It goes back to the early days of the Rangers administration, when there were so many stories flying around about who had security over what, and for how much. With a simple trawl of Companies House records, it was established that the only people with any security were the company who leased the catering equipment to RFC.

Thank you.

[Sir David Gray]

I presume Park is the same Park that has the bus company Park's of Hamilton and has/had a whole string of car dealerships.

If my memory serves me correctly was he not involved in the running of Hamilton Accies at one point

Yes to the first part of your post.

Don't know about the second part.

[jonty]

donkey-caster rewriting history? It's the same club.......
http://www.dailyrecord.co.uk/sport/football/football-news/rangers-same-club-existed-before-4904432

[CropleyWasGod]

http://www.londonstockexchange.com/exchange/news/market-news/market-news-detail/12201348.html

Contrary to earlier reports.

[Ozyhibby]

http://www.londonstockexchange.com/exchange/news/market-news/market-news-detail/12201348.html

Contrary to earlier reports.

They really are living day to day now. At this rate they will have to sell a player every 3 weeks.

[Billy Whizz]

http://www.londonstockexchange.com/exchange/news/market-news/market-news-detail/12201348.html

Contrary to earlier reports.

So how are they going to pay Ashley back?

[Peevemor]

I presume Park is the same Park that has the bus company Park's of Hamilton and has/had a whole string of car dealerships.

If my memory serves me correctly was he not involved in the running of Hamilton Accies at one point

The family were definitely involved at Hearts at one point.

[Ronniekirk]

donkey-caster rewriting history? It's the same club.......
http://www.dailyrecord.co.uk/sport/football/football-news/rangers-same-club-existed-before-4904432
Quote Its the Member Club that is the Entity that participates in our league . well they certainly are one big Messy Member that's for sure .wonder why Doncaster felt the need to clarify this now ,obviously wanting to start paving the way for a smooth Transition back into the big time .

[Just Alf]

Quote Its the Member Club that is the Entity that participates in our league . well they certainly are one big Messy Member that's for sure .wonder why Doncaster felt the need to clarify this now ,obviously wanting to start paving the way for a smooth Transition back into the big time .

Also nicely puts to bed the "15 or 25" points question for the next insolvency event :devil:

[CropleyWasGod]

So how are they going to pay Ashley back?
He still has security over Ibrox, if the reports are correct. In that sense, his money is safe.

[Keith_M]

http://www.londonstockexchange.com/exchange/news/market-news/market-news-detail/12201348.html

Contrary to earlier reports.


From your good self...


:cb

[Jack]

http://www.londonstockexchange.com/exchange/news/market-news/market-news-detail/12201348.html

Contrary to earlier reports.

I wonder if Ashley is getting dingied!

Is that possible?

[CropleyWasGod]

From your good self...


:cb
Which were nicked from somewhere else. That will teach me to wait for Stock Exchange comment on every Rangers story.

[CropleyWasGod]

I wonder if Ashley is getting dingied!

Is that possible?
It's possible that the information about him having security over Macleod was crap.
Alternatively, he may be waiting to cash in the security he reportedly has over Ibrox.

[Ronniekirk]

So how are they going to pay Ashley back?
Sadly they will find a way Billy Its a Sordid state of Affairs but when they get to the point of real crisis there is always some other loan appears from some other person desperate to get a slice of the action further down the line .
I was friendly with George Letham in my younger years when he lived on a wee council housing scheme in Cupar Fife He was decent guy then ,and a big Rangers Fan.Had no indication then he was going to go on and be a Millionare ,but through contacts like his they will find a way through this The three Bears haven't invested at this point without giving it due consideration so they will be working on a plan Still some twists and turns but the fact they are selling players so early in Transfer Window indicates they now know they can't go on the way they were .

[Keith_M]

Which were nicked from somewhere else. That will teach me to wait for Stock Exchange comment on every Rangers story.


:greengrin

[Ozyhibby]

Sadly they will find a way Billy Its a Sordid state of Affairs but when they get to the point of real crisis there is always some other loan appears from some other person desperate to get a slice of the action further down the line .
I was friendly with George Letham in my younger years when he lived on a wee council housing scheme in Cupar Fife He was decent guy then ,and a big Rangers Fan.Had no indication then he was going to go on and be a Millionare ,but through contacts like his they will find a way through this The three Bears haven't invested at this point without giving it due consideration so they will be working on a plan Still some twists and turns but the fact they are selling players so early in Transfer Window indicates they now know they can't go on the way they were .

Everybody keeps saying these guys are top businessmen, they will have a plan. They are smart guys etc.
can anyone explain to me why, if they are so smart, they paid around £2.4m for 16% of new Rangers when they could have bought the whole lot for £5.5m from Duff and Phelps?

[CropleyWasGod]

Everybody keeps saying these guys are top businessmen, they will have a plan. They are smart guys etc.
can anyone explain to me why, if they are so smart, they paid around £2.4m for 16% of new Rangers when they could have bought the whole lot for £5.5m from Duff and Phelps?
They couldn't have, though.

That deal was exclusive to Charles Green.

[Ronniekirk]

Away from the Financial side of things I see they have Dumbarton h. Alloa A Hearts. h and Celtic in Cup then us H. So with same squad and Manager they will struggle to win some of these imo based on how poor they were against us

[Col2]

Away from the Financial side of things I see they have Dumbarton h. Alloa A Hearts. h and Celtic in Cup then us H. So with same squad and Manager they will struggle to win some of these imo based on how poor they were against us

Yes its a tough run especially given the state they are in. Will be interesting to see how many of the orcs turn up tomorrow..

For us? We have a reasonable set of fixtures but without Dom, Farid and Gray so could be tough month.

[Ronniekirk]

Yes its a tough run especially given the state they are in. Will be interesting to see how many of the orcs turn up tomorrow..

For us? We have a reasonable set of fixtures but without Dom, Farid and Gray so could be tough month.
Thier attendance tomorrow will be interesting as they are using the new investment from the three Bears and Anniversary of Ibrox Disaster to try and drum up sales and saying this is Them on the upturn .So will see how many are buying into this especially with sale of McLeod
Agree without Dom and Gray it makes it harder for us so is a test of squad which up till now has been found wanting when a few key players are missing so we need to do some business in transfer market after hearts game

[CropleyWasGod]

Thier attendance tomorrow will be interesting as they are using the new investment from the three Bears and Anniversary of Ibrox Disaster to try and drum up sales and saying this is Them on the upturn .So will see how many are buying into this especially with sale of McLeod
Agree without Dom and Gray it makes it harder for us so is a test of squad which up till now has been found wanting when a few key players are missing so we need to do some business in transfer market after hearts game
It's not new investment, though. The 3 Bears have bought existing shares from Laxey. None of that goes to the club.

[erin go bragh]

Yes its a tough run especially given the state they are in. Will be interesting to see how many of the orcs turn up tomorrow..

For us? We have a reasonable set of fixtures but without Dom, Farid and Gray so could be tough month.
Id say we will have signed a striker and cover for Gray before the Falkirk game . Farid might even be back for the later games in Jan .
Rangers are deed , The Rangers might be joining them :na na:

GGTTH

[Ronniekirk]

It's not new investment, though. The 3 Bears have bought existing shares from Laxey. None of that goes to the club.
Cheers ,so does the fact Ashley has agreed the money from sale of McLeod can now be used by club indicate some of thT could be used in Transfer Market to pay another players wages ?
If not are they likely to be able to do anything else in January to raise new money to strengthen squad or bring in a new manager ?

[CropleyWasGod]

Cheers ,so does the fact Ashley has agreed the money from sale of McLeod can now be used by club indicate some of thT could be used in Transfer Market to pay another players wages ?
If not are they likely to be able to do anything else in January to raise new money to strengthen squad or bring in a new manager ?
The statement said working capital. To me, that's ongoing expenses. It's possible that it has been worded that way to damp down any expectations of it being used for new players.

Other than the share issue , which might take a while, I can't see any way for them to take on new players or management.

[Ronniekirk]

The statement said working capital. To me, that's ongoing expenses. It's possible that it has been worded that way to damp down any expectations of it being used for new players.

Other than the share issue , which might take a while, I can't see any way for them to take on new players or management.
Cheers CWG that's made my day :wink:

[tamig]

The statement said working capital. To me, that's ongoing expenses. It's possible that it has been worded that way to damp down any expectations of it being used for new players.

Other than the share issue , which might take a while, I can't see any way for them to take on new players or management.
I was going to ask if "working capital" could be utilised to cover loan repayments etc - which would mean it could work it's way to Ashley?

[CropleyWasGod]

I was going to ask if "working capital" could be utilised to cover loan repayments etc - which would mean it could work it's way to Ashley?
The initial reports said that the money was going to MA. I think the SE statement is designed to trash that.

To me, working capital doesn't include loan repayments unless they are part of a scheduled arrangement. I don't think MAs loan is.

[Keith_M]

The statement said working capital. To me, that's ongoing expenses. It's possible that it has been worded that way to damp down any expectations of it being used for new players.

Other than the share issue , which might take a while, I can't see any way for them to take on new players or management.


:agree:


For example, January's wage bill.

At least two newspapers had already printed that they didn't have the money to pay it, but that was before McLeod was sold.

[greenginger]

:agree:


For example, January's wage bill.

At least two newspapers had already printed that they didn't have the money to pay it, but that was before McLeod was sold.


I wonder if they settle up with HMRC for Vat and Tax deductions on monthly or quarterly basis. :cb

[CropleyWasGod]

I wonder if they settle up with HMRC for Vat and Tax deductions on monthly or quarterly basis. :cb

PAYE will definitely be monthly.

As far as VAT is concerned, where a company has "previous" with HMRC, they often insist on monthly Returns. I know this isn't the same company, but I have no doubt that HMRC will be keeping a close eye on things.

[CallumLaidlaw]

@AndyNewportPA: Dave King has acquired a 14.6 per cent stake in Rangers, the club has announced in a statement to the Stock Exchange.

[Ronniekirk]

@AndyNewportPA: Dave King has acquired a 14.6 per cent stake in Rangers, the club has announced in a statement to the Stock Exchange.
Thought there were question marks about whether he was viewed as fit and proper etc Seems to be a lot of wheeling and dealing all of a sudden Are they going to pull a rabbit out the hat and have new funding yo buy players after all ?

[CropleyWasGod]

Thought there were question marks about whether he was viewed as fit and proper etc Seems to be a lot of wheeling and dealing all of a sudden Are they going to pull a rabbit out the hat and have new funding yo buy players after all ?

Think the "fit and proper" only applies to directorships and direct involvement. At the moment, he's only a shareholder. He has, reportedly, also got new problems in SA which might hinder any major involvement.

However, this is sounding like the initial shots in a war between King Dave and the 3 Bears.

As for funding, they will have to go some if they want to get some in before the end of January.

[Billy Whizz]

Think the "fit and proper" only applies to directorships and direct involvement. At the moment, he's only a shareholder. He has, reportedly, also got new problems in SA which might hinder any major involvement.

However, this is sounding like the initial shots in a war between King Dave and the 3 Bears.

As for funding, they will have to go some if they want to get some in before the end of January.

Do you not think King Dave and the 3 Bears will work together, or is their history between them?

[CropleyWasGod]

Do you not think King Dave and the 3 Bears will work together, or is their history between them?

This is where my eyes glaze over; the politics baffle me.

IIRC, one of the Bears was a Blue Knight. Weren't they anti-King?

They might work together against the common enemy, Mashley and the Wet Fish. But then, it's the nature of this whole thing that they might then turn on each other.

[rosco-hibee]

I'm on the train from Edinburgh to Livi listening to 2 trumpets on about how Rangers need an oil tycoon or rich Russian to take them over. Absolutely quality patter, nae **** is gonna touch ye with a barge pole Ya bell ends. Yer pish with an unsustainable infrastructure, Yer goin back tae Div 3. I love hearing the Rangers struggling away.

Celtic next please.

[Billy Whizz]

This is where my eyes glaze over; the politics baffle me.

IIRC, one of the Bears was a Blue Knight. Weren't they anti-King?

They might work together against the common enemy, Mashley and the Wet Fish. But then, it's the nature of this whole thing that they might then turn on each other.

I'm confused as well. There were that many "Murray" involved at one time I'm not sure who was on what side. I was just thinking that the Rangers fans like both king and the 3 bears, hence the thought that they might just find a way to work together, against Ashley

[CropleyWasGod]

I'm confused as well. There were that many "Murray" involved at one time I'm not sure who was on what side. I was just thinking that the Rangers fans like both king and the 3 bears, hence the thought that they might just find a way to work together, against Ashley

Ashley probably knows this.

I was trying to understand why he didn't take the money for McLeod, when some reports said he had first dibs on it. He's possibly waiting to use the security he has over Ibrox; that might be his trump card.

[ballengeich]

Ashley probably knows this.

I was trying to understand why he didn't take the money for McLeod, when some reports said he had first dibs on it. He's possibly waiting to use the security he has over Ibrox; that might be his trump card.

What's his security over Ibrox? I know he's got security over Edmiston House and the Car Park, but I hadn't heard about this one.

[CropleyWasGod]

What's his security over Ibrox? I know he's got security over Edmiston House and the Car Park, but I hadn't heard about this one.

Sorry, you're right. Scrub what i said.

Think it still could be significant, though.

[HoboHarry]

Ashley probably knows this.

I was trying to understand why he didn't take the money for McLeod, when some reports said he had first dibs on it. He's possibly waiting to use the security he has over Ibrox; that might be his trump card.

Because he came to an agreement on something else in his favour in return for letting the club have the money?

[ballengeich]

Sorry, you're right. Scrub what i said.

Think it still could be significant, though.

It's possible the Rangers men have stepped in as an alternative to Ashley getting Ibrox. I suspect they've acted now out of desparation. Last weekend's trouncing plus the prospect of any sellable players departing may have been more than they could thole.

There's a lot of unknowns. Are the 3 Bears and King acting, informally, in partnership or will they be fighting each other for control? Were the 3 Bears part of the £18m consortium King had assembled a month or two ago, or is their money additional?

Was Doncaster's "same club" statement in his BBC interview a sign that he was aware another insolvency was imminent?

I gave up on watching Dallas because the business plots and characters were too straightforward and predictable in comparison to this.

[Bostonhibby]

Ashley probably knows this.

I was trying to understand why he didn't take the money for McLeod, when some reports said he had first dibs on it. He's possibly waiting to use the security he has over Ibrox; that might be his trump card.

King might well be as bent as a nine bob note or worse, as heartless as a yam when it comes to money but all of these plus the however many bears are involved are swimming with the sharks when they are dealing with Ashley & co. Not as much fun as watching Vlad and his many ass kissers but it still makes good viewing :tee hee:

[CropleyWasGod]

King might well be as bent as a nine bob note or worse, as heartless as a yam when it comes to money but all of these plus the however many bears are involved are swimming with the sharks when they are dealing with Ashley & co. Not as much fun as watching Vlad and his many ass kissers but it still makes good viewing :tee hee:

Every time I sit back and think "right, time to get the screenplay written. Who's going to play Murray (the 3 of em:greengrin), Whyte, Green.... etc etc?"..... something else happens.

It's like Boardwalk Empire. You really have to pay attention, otherwise it makes no sense. :greengrin

[Bostonhibby]

Every time I sit back and think "right, time to get the screenplay written. Who's going to play Murray (the 3 of em:greengrin), Whyte, Green.... etc etc?"..... something else happens.

It's like Boardwalk Empire. You really have to pay attention, otherwise it makes no sense. :greengrin

:agree::greengrin Was thinking it's like R P McMurphys boat tour from One Flew Over the Cuckoos Nest only with bigots, crooks and money!

[Ozyhibby]

That's nearly £5m spent on shares this week by these two groups. If there is another insolvency event, they lose the lot. I think it's a case of in for a penny, in for a pound now. They will have to bankroll them or lose that cash.

[Ozyhibby]

Could be that both groups are working together but by going separately they avoid going over 29% and triggering having to make a formal offer for all shares at the year high level.

[greenginger]

http://www.londonstockexchange.com/exchange/news/market-news/market-news-detail/12202893.html

I see that the Dave King shares will be owned by the Family Trust of Dave King.

I wonder how the aims of the trust are described , to allow trust funds to be squandered on those reprobates . :greengrin

[CropleyWasGod]

That's nearly £5m spent on shares this week by these two groups. If there is another insolvency event, they lose the lot. I think it's a case of in for a penny, in for a pound now. They will have to bankroll them or lose that cash.

That's not necessarily the case.

In administration, shareholders go to the back of the queue. There is a scenario whereby an offer is made by a new owner that reflects the "true" value of the property (remember Imran Ahmad's remarks :greengrin), all creditors get paid, and so do the shareholders.

It's unlikely, sure, but then so has much of this story been.

Just to muddy the waters even more, I'll bet that BDO are watching things very closely. If admin happens, they will put in a very big claim on behalf of the oldco's creditors. I'd say, ohhhh, for the excess of the value put on Ibrox by Ahmad, over £5.5m. :cb

[CropleyWasGod]

http://www.londonstockexchange.com/exchange/news/market-news/market-news-detail/12202893.html

I see that the Dave King shares will be owned by the Family Trust of Dave King.

I wonder how the aims of the trust are described , to allow trust funds to be squandered on those reprobates . :greengrin

I saw that too. I did wonder if those funds are beyond the reach of the SA tax people.......

[Wee Scottie Dug]

It wouldn't surprise me if Ashley is in cohorts with King and this is his response to the 3 bears move since the sfa made their decision about him not being allowed to directly increase his stake ..... Time will tell I suppose, it's an interesting watch anyway and hopefully will end up in tatters :greengrin

[bighairyfaeleith]

What I don't get is why these people haven't invested at any point in the past. They have had numerous opportunities to invest in and gain control but haven't done so and now the club is in the **** they make out like they are riding to the rescue.

If they had done this at the first share issue, or when chucky was seeking investors they could be riding high right now.

[bighairyfaeleith]

It wouldn't surprise me if Ashley is in cohorts with King and this is his response to the 3 bears move since the sfa made their decision about him not being allowed to directly increase his stake ..... Time will tell I suppose, it's an interesting watch anyway and hopefully will end up in tatters :greengrin

Far more likely that king and the three bears are trying to gain enough control without having to put 29% with any one shareholder. Be interesting to see what the next move is, the easedales want there money back and won't leave quietly and chuckie still has a sizeable shareholding through mysterious companies so much more to happen yet.

Oh aye, and ashley aint one to take kindly to being pipped to a deal, he won't go away either.

[CropleyWasGod]

Could be that both groups are working together but by going separately they avoid going over 29% and triggering having to make a formal offer for all shares at the year high level.

That's known as a Concert Party, which has to be declared as such. If it's not, it's against the Stock Exchange rules.

[bighairyfaeleith]

That's known as a Concert Party, which has to be declared as such. If it's not, it's against the Stock Exchange rules.

have Ashley, easdales and chucky not been doing that for a while though, all about proof?

[Billy Whizz]

That's known as a Concert Party, which has to be declared as such. If it's not, it's against the Stock Exchange rules.

Don't know about Concert party, but It's turning into a helluva party again

[HoboHarry]

have Ashley, easdales and chucky not been doing that for a while though, all about proof?
I can't imagine that anyone of them would trust another in that nest of vipers.......

[CropleyWasGod]

have Ashley, easdales and chucky not been doing that for a while though, all about proof?

I think it's a CP if they are trying to get round the 30% rule. Don't think it matters so much below that.

Proof's an issue, though, like you say.

[CropleyWasGod]

I can't imagine that anyone of them would trust another in that nest of vipers.......

Actually, scrub my earlier reference to Boardwalk Empire.

Think Sopranos, and bin lorries. Now, think buses..... Parks of Hamilton vs McGills.

Could be a busy time for insurance companies....

:cb

[HoboHarry]

Actually, scrub my earlier reference to Boardwalk Empire.

Think Sopranos, and bin lorries. Now, think buses..... Parks of Hamilton vs McGills.

Could be a busy time for insurance companies....

:cb
Why would they be buying up these shares at this stage in the game? I am really struggling to believe that any of them have the money to cover the costs until season end/loans to MA etc etc..... Not to mention the costs of the close season.....

[CropleyWasGod]

Why would they be buying up these shares at this stage in the game? I am really struggling to believe that any of them have the money to cover the costs until season end/loans to MA etc etc..... Not to mention the costs of the close season.....

They're positioning themselves before the new share issue.

Obviously, they all believe that RFC are undervalued at the price they're paying......otherwise, they wouldn't be paying it, and would be waiting for administration. They're probably right to think so, too. A well-run RFC, which has no loans (other than the £3m due to MA), is a pretty sound and profitable business. They're in the crap just now because they've been badly run and ripped off for the past 5-10 years. The potential new owners probably think they can (a) do better or (b) squeeze some more swill out of the trough.

[HoboHarry]

They're positioning themselves before the new share issue.

Obviously, they all believe that RFC are undervalued at the price they're paying......otherwise, they wouldn't be paying it, and would be waiting for administration. They're probably right to think so, too. A well-run RFC, which has no loans (other than the £3m due to MA), is a pretty sound and profitable business. They're in the crap just now because they've been badly run and ripped off for the past 5-10 years. The potential new owners probably think they can (a) do better or (b) squeeze some more swill out of the trough.
Yes I can see all of that but - unless they also have the cash to very quickly get up to speed with Celtic they are going to be struggling. Their fans will not accept a 5 year period to build the club. The amount of required cash is going to be huge and I fail to see where it is going to come from.

[CropleyWasGod]

Yes I can see all of that but - unless they also have the cash to very quickly get up to speed with Celtic they are going to be struggling. Their fans will not accept a 5 year period to build the club. The amount of required cash is going to be huge and I fail to see where it is going to come from.

I have detected Celtic going back a bit, on and off the field, this past year or so. Maybe the gap isn't that big?

That said, I take your point. But we're dealing with big egos here; clearly these guys think they can deal with all of that.

[HoboHarry]

I have detected Celtic going back a bit, on and off the field, this past year or so. Maybe the gap isn't that big?

That said, I take your point. But we're dealing with big egos here; clearly these guys think they can deal with all of that.
Perhaps that is correct. I do hope though that Celtic crush them in the upcoming fixture - that may be a wake up call to those that are buying up shares right now....

[GreenPJ]

They're positioning themselves before the new share issue.

Obviously, they all believe that RFC are undervalued at the price they're paying......otherwise, they wouldn't be paying it, and would be waiting for administration. They're probably right to think so, too. A well-run RFC, which has no loans (other than the £3m due to MA), is a pretty sound and profitable business. They're in the crap just now because they've been badly run and ripped off for the past 5-10 years. The potential new owners probably think they can (a) do better or (b) squeeze some more swill out of the trough.

The bit I struggle with is without administration they are still burdened players with contract length and high salaries. With the attendance down and until you win the hoardes over the income won't be what they need even with a return to the premiership?

[CropleyWasGod]

The bit I struggle with is without administration they are still burdened players with contract length and high salaries. With the attendance down and until you win the hoardes over the income won't be what they need even with a return to the premiership?

Aren't there a lot of them ending this year? That will be a help.

(washes mouth out for using the H word).

[Billy Whizz]

The bit I struggle with is without administration they are still burdened players with contract length and high salaries. With the attendance down and until you win the hoardes over the income won't be what they need even with a return to the premiership?

There's a load out of contract at the end of this season inc, McCulloch (17k per week), Daly, Black, Sheils, Boyd and Miller etc

[Ozyhibby]

I don't think the contracts they have to worry about are anything to do with the players.

[bighairyfaeleith]

I don't think the contracts they have to worry about are anything to do with the players.

Exactly, lets see them try and cancel Ashleys contracts

[Jack]

Has anyone compiled a list of sevco assets held by Ashley.

£3m loan
Merchandise, how long for?
The badge, but what does that actually mean?
9ish% of the shares

[JimBHibees]

There's a load out of contract at the end of this season inc, McCulloch (17k per week), Daly, Black, Sheils, Boyd and Miller etc

Just wow, an absolute passenger and a thug to boot who gets away with murder solely on the basis of being the captain of Rangers.

[portycabbage]

Think the "fit and proper" only applies to directorships and direct involvement. At the moment, he's only a shareholder. He has, reportedly, also got new problems in SA which might hinder any major involvement.

However, this is sounding like the initial shots in a war between King Dave and the 3 Bears.

As for funding, they will have to go some if they want to get some in before the end of January.


Do you not think King Dave and the 3 Bears will work together, or is their history between them?


This is where my eyes glaze over; the politics baffle me.

IIRC, one of the Bears was a Blue Knight. Weren't they anti-King?

They might work together against the common enemy, Mashley and the Wet Fish. But then, it's the nature of this whole thing that they might then turn on each other.


Could be that both groups are working together but by going separately they avoid going over 29% and triggering having to make a formal offer for all shares at the year high level.


It wouldn't surprise me if Ashley is in cohorts with King and this is his response to the 3 bears move since the sfa made their decision about him not being allowed to directly increase his stake ..... Time will tell I suppose, it's an interesting watch anyway and hopefully will end up in tatters :greengrin

Re King-

"Its transaction was completed two days after a group of three businessmen - George Letham, Douglas Park and George Taylor - purchased the 16% of shares (http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/football/30644025) held by Laxey Partners, which was the single largest shareholder.

However, BBC Scotland has learned that the move has prompted one large shareholder to lodge complaints with the takeover panel and the Financial Conduct Authority.

Those bodies have yet to respond, but the shareholder believes King is working in concert with the Park consortium in a bid to seize control.
Takeover panel rules dictate that, if a consortium crosses the 29.9% threshold, it must make an offer to buy the rest of the company.
Both parties together hold more than 34%, but King and Park are adamant they are separate groups. "

http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/football/30661103

[Moulin Yarns]

I can't believe this thread had slipped so far.

BBC reported some guy that owns a Pheonix sports club, Pheonix Suns basketball offered £18million for Rangers on Christmas eve. Has this got something to do with all these sales of shares?
http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/football/30674489

[CropleyWasGod]

I can't believe this thread had slipped so far.

BBC reported some guy that owns a Pheonix sports club, Pheonix Suns basketball offered £18million for Rangers on Christmas eve. Has this got something to do with all these sales of shares?
http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/football/30674489
....plus £15m for the rest of the shares.

If I were a current shareholder, with the chance to buy more shares. ....I might just buy them if somebody was going to buy them off me for silly money.

[Deansy]

I can't believe this thread had slipped so far.

BBC reported some guy that owns a Pheonix sports club, Pheonix Suns basketball offered £18million for Rangers on Christmas eve. Has this got something to do with all these sales of shares?
http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/football/30674489

'If you are going to rebuild a major club like Rangers and get it back to the very top of the game on a stable and sustainable basis, additional funding will be needed'

...... and this 'serious player' would recoup his investment, (even if 'Satan's 11' were in the top-league) from the Scottish Game, how exactly ??.

Not being 'Business-savvy', I honestly can't see a reason why an American with (as of yet) no apparent connection to the Hun would be interested ?

[jae]

Somebody on follow follow saying there is an insolvency event stated on front page of tomorrows Daily Record :greengrin:thumbsup:

[Hibby Kay-Yay]

Somebody on follow follow saying there is an insolvency event stated on front page of tomorrows Daily Record :greengrin:thumbsup:

Tidy, so all we need is for Hearts to get maximum penalty points for ineligible player scam and we will be sitting pretty in 2nd place with a momentum to get 1st :cb

(In my dream world that is)

[CropleyWasGod]

Somebody on follow follow saying there is an insolvency event stated on front page of tomorrows Daily Record :greengrin[emoji106]
I've just read tomorrow's Record piece. That's not what they are saying. They're summarising the current situation.

In any case, the Courts reopen tomorrow after the holiday. Any application for administration could only be made tomorrow at the earliest.

[HoboHarry]

I've just read tomorrow's Record piece. That's not what they are saying. They're summarising the current situation.

In any case, the Courts reopen tomorrow after the holiday. Any application for administration could only be made tomorrow at the earliest.
Leave it to you to pee on the fire ..... :greengrin Was about to cheer....

[CropleyWasGod]

Leave it to you to pee on the fire ..... :greengrin Was about to cheer....
Read Jackson's piece though. ....it's encouraging :)

[Del Boy]

Just got a text saying liquidation tomorrow!!

Pray it's true

[weecounty hibby]

Just got a text saying liquidation tomorrow!!

Pray it's true
Please please please be true. Would be well deserved if it happens, no lessons learned at all

[Oscar T Grouch]

Just said on sportscene that there an £18m offer going in to buy a controlling stake of them. Never be liquidation.

[WeeRussell]

Just said on sportscene that there an £18m offer going in to buy a controlling stake of them. Never be liquidation.

I wouldn't be so sure... liquidation seemingly not far away! :greengrin

[Oscar T Grouch]

I wouldn't be so sure... liquidation seemingly not far away! :greengrin

If anything it would be admin before any liquidation event. Neither will happen this time, for some reason they seem to have an endless supply of idiots that'll throw good money after bad at that club

[HoboHarry]

Just said on sportscene that there an £18m offer going in to buy a controlling stake of them. Never be liquidation.
I don't believe that 18M offer for a minute. Rangers in total aren't worth that and in addition, that offer is supposed to have been made prior to the Three Bears and King buying their own shares this past week. Then they will all to face down Mike Ashley......

[Oscar T Grouch]

I don't believe that 18M offer for a minute. Rangers in total aren't worth that and in addition, that offer is supposed to have been made prior to the Three Bears and King buying their own shares this past week. Then they will all to face down Mike Ashley......

It's just another part of the storyline in the soap opera that is the rangers, wait and see what happens, I'm sure it'll be entertaining whatever it is 😉

[WeeRussell]

If anything it would be admin before any liquidation event. Neither will happen this time, for some reason they seem to have an endless supply of idiots that'll throw good money after bad at that club

You need cash to run an administration, which they do not have. That's the rumour anyway.

Will see shortly - I'm sure we both hope it is you that's wrong :aok:


Either way they are properly *****ed.

[Oscar T Grouch]

You need cash to run an administration, which they do not have. That's the rumour anyway.

Will see shortly - I'm sure we both hope it is you that's wrong :aok:


Either way they are properly *****ed.

i really hope I'm wrong, I would like nothing more than to see them hit the wall again 😂

[Deansy]

If anything it would be admin before any liquidation event. Neither will happen this time, for some reason they seem to have an endless supply of idiots that'll throw good money after bad at that club

Or - an endless supply of crooks that'll put dodgy-money into that club as they know they'll face no action from the SFA or the courts - and the MSM will back them (initially) ?

[portycabbage]

http://forum.rangersmedia.co.uk/index.php?showtopic=277913

Shares suspended according to a rumour on that.

[CA Hibby]

Talk over this side of the pond that Rangers will be bought by the guy that owns Phoenix Suns basketball team..sons were coached by Dave Robertson their old full back who lives in the Phoenix area. Guys name is Scarver

[CA Hibby]

Probably why the shares are suspended

[silverhibee]

Talk over this side of the pond that Rangers will be bought by the guy that owns Phoenix Suns basketball team..sons were coached by Dave Robertson their old full back who lives in the Phoenix area. Guys name is Scarver

http://www.dailyrecord.co.uk/sport/football/keith-jackson-time-nears-mike-4919126

[CropleyWasGod]

Probably why the shares are suspended
The SE isn't open yet, so that's unlikely.

However, :-
Easdale gives Rangers emergency loan http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/30678270

[Sergio sledge]

http://www.dailyrecord.co.uk/sport/football/keith-jackson-time-nears-mike-4919126

Dave King has been on the phone to the Daily Record feeding them an article I think....

[Iain G]

The SE isn't open yet, so that's unlikely.

However, :-
Easdale gives Rangers emergency loan http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/30678270

Secured against the sale of Lewis McCleod, assume this against some future payments?

[CB_NO3]

Secured against the sale of Lewis McCleod, assume this against some future payments?
Apparently its 500k upfront then 500k over three payments for McCleod

[CropleyWasGod]

Secured against the sale of Lewis McCleod, assume this against some future payments?
This doesn't correspond with previous stories that Ashley had first call on the money.

[johnbc70]

What really annoys me about this whole saga is that a blind man could see what was coming - if you pay players £5-10K a week (more in the case of McCulloch and Wallace I believe) and a manager £750K a year, but have revenues far less than your outgoings then you will have big problems.

It seems like the whole of Scottish football could see what was happening but nobody in any position of power at Ibrox could? Also what have the Scottish Football authority done about this whole mess again - living up to their name - SFA.

[CropleyWasGod]

What really annoys me about this whole saga is that a blind man could see what was coming - if you pay players £5-10K a week (more in the case of McCulloch and Wallace I believe) and a manager £750K a year, but have revenues far less than your outgoings then you will have big problems.

It seems like the whole of Scottish football could see what was happening but nobody in any position of power at Ibrox could? Also what have the Scottish Football authority done about this whole mess again - living up to their name - SFA.
It's difficult to see what the SFA could have done or should do. It's not their call to advise clubs on their financial dealings.

We have the licensing system in place. When RFC next apply for their licence, at the end of the season, their losses might be relevant, but until then......they haven't actually broken any rules.

[Keith_M]

Talk over this side of the pond that Rangers will be bought by the guy that owns Phoenix Suns basketball team..sons were coached by Dave Robertson their old full back who lives in the Phoenix area. Guys name is Scarver


But does he have "wealth off the radar"?


On a more serious note; weren't their a number of Yanks linked to takeovers during the Admin period, in 2012? He's not one of those guys, is he?

[Jim44]

It's difficult to see what the SFA could have done or should do. It's not their call to advise clubs on their financial dealings.

We have the licensing system in place. When RFC next apply for their licence, at the end of the season, their losses might be relevant, but until then......they haven't actually broken any rules.

Is there not some sort of FIFA rule about player salary budget not exceeding income or a proportion of it? Or have I invented this? :-)

[CropleyWasGod]

Is there not some sort of FIFA rule about player salary budget not exceeding income or a proportion of it? Or have I invented this? :-)

If there is (and I haven't studied the SFA FFP regulations), it wouldn't be acted on until the next time RFC apply for a licence.

[Jack]

It's difficult to see what the SFA could have done or should do. It's not their call to advise clubs on their financial dealings.

We have the licensing system in place. When RFC next apply for their licence, at the end of the season, their losses might be relevant, but until then......they haven't actually broken any rules.

In the world of financial fair play, rules should be there! Of course the SFA aren't there to advise clubs but they are there to safeguard the league and its reputation. So whatever way you look at it the SFA/SPFL are at fault. :agree: [I'm not suggesting its your fault just because you're telling us :greengrin]

Sevco haven't had the funding in place to last the season and that's been the case since before the season started. Its not just a case of maybe bumbling through, they were around 50-75% short* of what their spending profile suggested they'd need! They've already built up £3.5m in loans and goodness knows what as far as the potential creditors list is concerned.

I'm not sure if you're saying licences are applied for and issued each season. If that is the case then at the beginning of this season would/should have been the time the authorities had the power.

As I said I'm not getting at you because you're a cold blooded accountant who knows how to apply the rules as they currently stand. Did you ever want to the a lion tamer?

* I'm not sure if the £3m loan to Ashley is or isn't included in the £8m they need to take them through to the end of the season.

[CropleyWasGod]

In the world of financial fair play, rules should be there! Of course the SFA aren't there to advise clubs but they are there to safeguard the league and its reputation. So whatever way you look at it the SFA/SPFL are at fault. :agree: [I'm not suggesting its your fault just because you're telling us :greengrin]

Sevco haven't had the funding in place to last the season and that's been the case since before the season started. Its not just a case of maybe bumbling through, they were around 50-75% short* of what their spending profile suggested they'd need! They've already built up £3.5m in loans and goodness knows what as far as the potential creditors list is concerned.

I'm not sure if you're saying licences are applied for and issued each season. If that is the case then at the beginning of this season would/should have been the time the authorities had the power.

As I said I'm not getting at you because you're a cold blooded accountant who knows how to apply the rules as they currently stand. Did you ever want to the a lion tamer?

* I'm not sure if the £3m loan to Ashley is or isn't included in the £8m they need to take them through to the end of the season.

I have a lion tamer's hat.

At the start of the season, the accounts (and the auditor's report) hadn't beeen published. If RFC submitted forecasts at that time (and I'm not sure that they had to), I'm sure that the expected deficit would have been covered by the intended Share Issue. As things stand, that Share Issue may still happen in time to get them out of the mire.

Against the background of that, what could/should the SFA do? They can't say "we don't believe your forecasts".

[ballengeich]

Secured against the sale of Lewis McCleod, assume this against some future payments?

The BBC report indicates that the loan is to cover the next few days which suggests to me that it covers the period until Brentford's cheque for the first instalment gets cleared. If the report about HMRC threatening to wind them up is correct things are even worse than was generally known.

How can they get through January except by selling any player they can get cash for? Our play-off chances could look a lot better by the end of the month.

[Weststandwanab]

I have a lion tamer's hat.

At the start of the season, the accounts (and the auditor's report) hadn't beeen published. If RFC submitted forecasts at that time (and I'm not sure that they had to), I'm sure that the expected deficit would have been covered by the intended Share Issue. As things stand, that Share Issue may still happen in time to get them out of the mire.

Against the background of that, what could/should the SFA do? They can't say "we don't believe your forecasts".

I believe they could have and indeed should have if they had the opportunity.

Any bank they approached would most certainly have said as much.

[CropleyWasGod]

I believe they could have and indeed should have if they had the opportunity.

Any bank they approached would most certainly have said as much.

.. and then what?

What would be their course of action?

[Keith_M]

I believe they could have and indeed should have if they had the opportunity.

Any bank they approached would most certainly have said as much.


Therein lies a very murky path.


Not all clubs have sufficient money available at the beginning of the season to pay all bills for that season. In fact, I'd be surprised if (m)any Clubs had that. The authorities really have to take it on trust that the Clubs have done their sums correctly.

I'm not convinced it's within the remit of the SFA to second guess financial calculations of member Clubs.

[Andy74]

The BBC report indicates that the loan is to cover the next few days which suggests to me that it covers the period until Brentford's cheque for the first instalment gets cleared. If the report about HMRC threatening to wind them up is correct things are even worse than was generally known.

How can they get through January except by selling any player they can get cash for? Our play-off chances could look a lot better by the end of the month.

BBC article now changed to confirm that HMRC provided them with a 7 day notice to pay National Insurance monies.

[jonty]

http://spfl.co.uk/docs/067_324__therulesofthescottishprofessionalfootball leagueasat11september2014_1411980004.pdf
Section E20 deals with HMRC

I wonder if The Rangers notified the SPFL that they were overdue?:cb

[lord bunberry]

We must be getting into signing ban territory

[CropleyWasGod]

We must be getting into signing ban territory

I think they have already put themselves into that category. :greengrin

[lord bunberry]

I think they have already put themselves into that category. :greengrin

True, but it's normally the beginning of the end

[StevieC]

It seems like the whole of Scottish football could see what was happening but nobody in any position of power at Ibrox could?

I think those in power at Ibrox (Green et al) were well aware that things would implode within 3 years. That's why they made a killing with wages, bonuses and the "share issue" and then bailed, to leave the rest to scrabble for power and the blame game.

[PatHead]

Therein lies a very murky path.


Not all clubs have sufficient money available at the beginning of the season to pay all bills for that season. In fact, I'd be surprised if (m)any Clubs had that. The authorities really have to take it on trust that the Clubs have done their sums correctly.

I'm not convinced it's within the remit of the SFA to second guess financial calculations of member Clubs.

They should have some rules in place to ensure a team can finish the season and could start by making rules on expenditure similar to Football League in England. In the event of a projection being totally inaccurate a points penalty and/or withholding of tv money should take place for the following season.

Finally a The Rangers supporter in the office next door was telling me that SFA are holding £250k back from Lewis McLeod's transfer money to meet the outstanding legal bill.

Never rains but it pours eh!

[Andy74]

I think those in power at Ibrox (Green et al) were well aware that things would implode within 3 years. That's why they made a killing with wages, bonuses and the "share issue" and then bailed, to leave the rest to scrabble for power and the blame game.

They certainly should have seen it they way thery were going.

I still don't understand how it has happened.

Even starting again they had crowds of over 30,000 each week so they already had the second biggest budget in Scotland. It was overkill of course but surely that would have allowed them to spend the daft salaries they were handing out?

How have they managed to also burn through another £40 million or whatever level of ionvestment they also had over the past few years?

How did any of these guys involved ever make their money in the first place if they can't put simple budgets together that would have seen Rangers walk their leagues without having to spend any more than the income from the gates?

I gues it leaves sheer theft which is probably what has largely happened with the money going out the club to those involved in the last few years.

[CropleyWasGod]

They should have some rules in place to ensure a team can finish the season and could start by making rules on expenditure similar to Football League in England. In the event of a projection being totally inaccurate a points penalty and/or withholding of tv money should take place for the following season.

Finally a The Rangers supporter in the office next door was telling me that SFA are holding £250k back from Lewis McLeod's transfer money to meet the outstanding legal bill.

Never rains but it pours eh!

I am struggling to see how rules can be put in place to ensure that a club can finish the season. Other than a bond, which would actually make things worse in cashflow terms for just about everyone, I can't see how anything would prevent the Rangers situation.

On the legal bill stuff, I wasn't aware that transfer money went via the SFA.

[StevieC]

http://spfl.co.uk/docs/067_324__therulesofthescottishprofessionalfootball leagueasat11september2014_1411980004.pdf
Section E20 deals with HMRC

I wonder if The Rangers notified the SPFL that they were overdue?:cb

"does not within twenty eight days of a Tax Liability becoming due by the Club on or after 1 June 2014 pay to HMRC the full amount of that Tax Liability"

Good spot. If they have indeed been given 7 days to pay in full, then it's pretty much guaranteed that they've exceeded the "within 28 days" date set out by the SPFL.

[StevieC]

Finally a The Rangers supporter in the office next door was telling me that SFA are holding £250k back from Lewis McLeod's transfer money to meet the outstanding legal bill.

Tell him he's talking "single fish". Why would the SFA receive any transfer money? it would go directly to the club that sold the player.
They may well be holding back payments due, but it'll be nothing to do with the recent transfer.

[AndyM_1875]

They certainly should have seen it they way thery were going.

I still don't understand how it has happened.

Even starting again they had crowds of over 30,000 each week so they already had the second biggest budget in Scotland. It was overkill of course but surely that would have allowed them to spend the daft salaries they were handing out?

How have they managed to also burn through another £40 million or whatever level of ionvestment they also had over the past few years?

How did any of these guys involved ever make their money in the first place if they can't put simple budgets together that would have seen Rangers walk their leagues without having to spend any more than the income from the gates?

I gues it leaves sheer theft which is probably what has largely happened with the money going out the club to those involved in the last few years.

Their first few games in Division 3 they were regularly getting bigger crowds than Sellik.
They got something like 49,000 for a game with East Stirling which is quite frankly bonkers. There's little doubt that they have a string of ludicrously overpaid players with no resale value (Black, Shiels, McCulloch, Boyd, Miller(who wants out anyway)) who should be released/told to get new clubs ASAP but the real damage has been done at Board level with crooks like Green, Ahmed etc all 'wetting their beaks' and complete incompetence and theft thereafter at Board level.

They may well go into Administration (and probably quickly back out again) or the American guy will buy them and clear out their board but there is little doubt that the club as a whole needs restructured from top to bottom.

[Ozyhibby]

I don't like sticking up for the Huns but I don't think their current predicament is as much to do with over paid players as it is to do with the amount of money that has left the club to the likes of Charles Green and friends and the fact that all their normal revenue streams like shirt sales have been sold to third parties.
Had the new Rangers been properly run from day one then they could have had all those high paid players and been well on their way back to the top tier.

[PatHead]

Tell him he's talking "single fish". Why would the SFA receive any transfer money? it would go directly to the club that sold the player.
They may well be holding back payments due, but it'll be nothing to do with the recent transfer.

I'll tell him happily enough will give me the chance to mention 4-0 again.:wink:

[PatHead]

I don't like sticking up for the Huns but I don't think their current predicament is as much to do with over paid players as it is to do with the amount of money that has left the club to the likes of Charles Green and friends and the fact that all their normal revenue streams like shirt sales have been sold to third parties.
Had the new Rangers been properly run from day one then they could have had all those high paid players and been well on their way back to the top tier.

Don't exclude the Manager and coaches from the criticism. Fat Swally is as culpable as the Board.

[Hibs Class]

Don't exclude the Manager and coaches from the criticism. Fat Swally is as culpable as the Board.

:agree: But if I was fatboy I'd be speaking with my solicitor today to see about an action to have the money for my wages ring-fenced, just in case. Or at the very least confirmed as a football debt.

[Spike Mandela]

:agree: But if I was fatboy I'd be speaking with my solicitor today to see about an action to have the money for my wages ring-fenced, just in case. Or at the very least confirmed as a football debt.

Do you reall believe he won't have done that already?:cb

[Ozyhibby]

Don't exclude the Manager and coaches from the criticism. Fat Swally is as culpable as the Board.

Absolutely, but even his wages could have been afforded if they had not been shafted by Green.

[Iain G]

Tell him he's talking "single fish". Why would the SFA receive any transfer money? it would go directly to the club that sold the player.
They may well be holding back payments due, but it'll be nothing to do with the recent transfer.

Getting confused between transfer monies and the tv deal money they were holding back to cover payments Green and co agreed to pay?!

[Weststandwanab]

.. and then what?

What would be their course of action?

I do not know.

I have no idea what powers they have under their constitution or Articles etc. I would have thought, at the very least, they could be issued with a formal warning stating that renewal of their Licence would be at risk in these circumstances



Therein lies a very murky path.


Not all clubs have sufficient money available at the beginning of the season to pay all bills for that season. In fact, I'd be surprised if (m)any Clubs had that. The authorities really have to take it on trust that the Clubs have done their sums correctly.

I'm not convinced it's within the remit of the SFA to second guess financial calculations of member Clubs.

I am sure you are correct but funds are generated throughout the season and the club will have a reasonable idea of when these fund materialise and are available to utilise.

Consequently this can be implemented into projections which the governing body could scrutinise and question.

I my opinion.




They should have some rules in place to ensure a team can finish the season and could start by making rules on expenditure similar to Football League in England. In the event of a projection being totally inaccurate a points penalty and/or withholding of tv money should take place for the following season.

Finally a The Rangers supporter in the office next door was telling me that SFA are holding £250k back from Lewis McLeod's transfer money to meet the outstanding legal bill.

Never rains but it pours eh!

Precisely and good to read they appear to be growing a set.

[Spike Mandela]

Surely you don't get to the point of non payment of National Insurance without having a lengthy list of creditors awaiting payment as well. Wonder if any others are likely to trigger winding up notices?

[AndyM_1875]

I don't like sticking up for the Huns but I don't think their current predicament is as much to do with over paid players as it is to do with the amount of money that has left the club to the likes of Charles Green and friends and the fact that all their normal revenue streams like shirt sales have been sold to third parties.
Had the new Rangers been properly run from day one then they could have had all those high paid players and been well on their way back to the top tier.

True.

I had a beer with a Hun mate from Uni days after the 4-0. He wasn't surprised by the scoreline BTW. His line to me was if they had taken the U20s from 2012 and added Wallace and McCulloch they would still have won Divisions 3 and 2 as they were the only full time team in those leagues (Dunfermline apart last year) and probably played a lot better football.

[emerald green]

So, if I've got this latest twist in this never ending saga correct, Easdale has basically stepped in with an emergency loan of £500k which keeps them from going into administration (again) "within days". Is that correct?

If so, how much longer can he, and/or others, keep bailing them out so to speak? Presumably the SFA are happy to sit back and say nothing while this farce continues?

[Keith_M]

:agree: But if I was fatboy I'd be speaking with my solicitor today to see about an action to have the money for my wages ring-fenced, just in case. Or at the very least confirmed as a football debt.


If they go into Administration, the only Football Debt will be any unpaid wages up until the point his Contract is cancelled (which the Administrators can do at a stroke).

The cancellation of his Contract will be one of the first things they do. After it's cancelled, there's not a thing he can do about it.

IMHO, he's known for a while they were likely to go into Administration and it's the main reason he handed in his notice when he did. That ensured that he would gain the maximum possible salary for the last few months of Rangers MkII

[Weststandwanab]

I am struggling to see how rules can be put in place to ensure that a club can finish the season. Other than a bond, which would actually make things worse in cashflow terms for just about everyone, I can't see how anything would prevent the Rangers situation.

On the legal bill stuff, I wasn't aware that transfer money went via the SFA.

CWG you are quite correct regarding the bond and adversities of them.

However, there was a defacto Bond system in place when the league had an official sponsor because the sums due were held on behalf of clubs until release dates.

Now that there is no Sponsor that option is removed and therefore there should be even more financial scrutiny, in my opinion.

Further, I think this recently flurry of clubs “going debt free” is a symptom of stricter financial rules coming from Governing Bodies.