Why did we only sign one centre back?

[sesoim]

I can't believe Fenlon hasn't signed another CB. Our defence has been shocking for two years, and yet, having signed nine players, we will still have to watch Hanlon/O'Hanlon/Murray/Stevens cost us games for the rest of the season.

I'm excited by some of the loan signings, but I can see us playing well against Killie, getting into the lead, only to chuck it away again because one of the above defenders mucks up again.

[R'Albin]

He signed two. McPake and Doherty. Plus I reckon that with a decent partner Stephens will come good :agree:

[marinello59]

He signed two. McPake and Doherty. Plus I reckon that with a decent partner Stephens will come good :agree:

The one's we signed don't count. This is hibs.net. There are rules. :hnet:

[R'Albin]

The one's we signed don't count. This is hibs.net. There are rules. :hnet:

:greengrin

[kaimendhibs]

We have signed two, mcpake and doherty

[bawheid]

Moan FAIL

[SouthMoroccoStu]

The one's we signed don't count. This is hibs.net. There are rules. :hnet:

:agree::cb

[dirtydirk]

I genuinely believe if Stephens has an experienced 'good' centre half playing next to him then he will become good. Has all the attributes to be a good player just makes the wrong decisions alot

[JimBHibees]

I genuinely believe if Stephens has an experienced 'good' centre half playing next to him then he will become good. Has all the attributes to be a good player just makes the wrong decisions alot

Personally think Hanlon is a much better prospect and needs an experienced partner hopefully McPake is that man.

[HibbyKeith]

Moan FAIL

:tee hee:

[J-C]

Personally think Hanlon is a much better prospect and needs an experienced partner hopefully McPake is that man.

Hanlon is too small, too weak and not Hibs class, IMHO I believe he's been given an easy ride this past 2yrs, he's been there through all of the troubles in the defence and I think he's been the weak link all the time, with other teams targetting him as the weak spot.

[jdships]

I genuinely believe if Stephens has an experienced 'good' centre half playing next to him then he will become good. Has all the attributes to be a good player just makes the wrong decisions alot



That's my take on it but then I'm not HFC manager.:agree:
Why not just let PF have a fair time to sort things out instead of as soon as the window close the moaning starts :rolleyes:

[Seveno]

I genuinely believe if Stephens has an experienced 'good' centre half playing next to him then he will become good. Has all the attributes to be a good player just makes the wrong decisions alot

I would have thought that asking the right decisions a lot was one of the attributes of a good player.

[CallumLaidlaw]

I also rate Stephens. Excellent in the air, and strong. Still young with much less first team exposure than hanlon yet I think he has gone ahead of hanlon overall. Hogg was a better player with Jones by his side. Let's hope McPake can have the same effect

[Deano_70]

Is this a wind up thread?? He has gone out and signed an entire new defence and yet people still manage to hit us with negativity!!!

[PaulSmith]

Stephens has all the attributes to be a fantastic centre half but he needs a brain to go with it, far too prone to lapses of concentration. "Denzil" is very apt for him.

[Deano_70]

Hanlon is too small, too weak and not Hibs class, IMHO I believe he's been given an easy ride this past 2yrs, he's been there through all of the troubles in the defence and I think he's been the weak link all the time, with other teams targetting him as the weak spot.

Paul Hanlon is still a kid, a kid that was thrown in with the sharks far far too early. Hopefully now Fenlon will pull him back and allow him to grow into the player we all know he can be! Let's not forget that the boy has played left back and centre half!! Can anyone tell me the last player of SPL ABILITY that was a natural centre half and full back???

[Dr Jimmy]

We have signed two, mcpake and doherty

Wolves fan at work said Doherty is never a centre half, but did say he is an excellent right back who should be given a run in the Wolves first team.
Rates him very highly, hopefully we have a player on our hands.

[ancienthibby]

Hanlon is too small, too weak and not Hibs class, IMHO I believe he's been given an easy ride this past 2yrs, he's been there through all of the troubles in the defence and I think he's been the weak link all the time, with other teams targetting him as the weak spot.

You just cannot be serious on this! There is no more maligned player on this board than that young man.

I really hope he comes good in some position for Hibs and gives you and your ilk an almighty two fingers!:greengrin

[SquashedFrogg]

I can't believe Fenlon hasn't signed another CB. Our defence has been shocking for two years, and yet, having signed nine players, we will still have to watch Hanlon/O'Hanlon/Murray/Stevens cost us games for the rest of the season.

I'm excited by some of the loan signings, but I can see us playing well against Killie, getting into the lead, only to chuck it away again because one of the above defenders mucks up again.

I think one of our problems defensively has been our midfield and attack. I think back to the Dundee Utd before Christmas. Their defense wasn't exactly world class but their midfield kept the ball, created, worked hard and their attack looked potent and creative.

Our defenders have lack confidence as much as anything as they know the ball will be heading back towards them every 2 minutes.

I believe (& hope) that with us improving these areas we will improve greatly.



*fingers crossed smiley*

[JustSimplyHibs]

Paul Hanlon is still a kid, a kid that was thrown in with the sharks far far too early. Hopefully now Fenlon will pull him back and allow him to grow into the player we all know he can be! Let's not forget that the boy has played left back and centre half!! Can anyone tell me the last player of SPL ABILITY that was a natural centre half and full back???

Gary Smith Aberdeen played RB and CB, Paul Ritchie Hearts played RB and CB, Alan McLaren Hearts RB and CB, am sure there was a boy from Rangers Scott Nisbet (scored that flukey goal in europe from the right and bounced on the pen spot) played CB or RB< Scott Wilson Dunfermline boy played RB and CB, John Kennedy Celtic played CB and RB on occassions.....think there is a pattern here, no LB's.

Davie Robertson Aberdeen was a LB don't know if he played CB though.

Before anyone says anything these guys would have walked into our team in their day, defo into any of today's teams in the SPL.

[Wotherspiniesta]

Paul Hanlon is still a kid, a kid that was thrown in with the sharks far far too early. Hopefully now Fenlon will pull him back and allow him to grow into the player we all know he can be! Let's not forget that the boy has played left back and centre half!! Can anyone tell me the last player of SPL ABILITY that was a natural centre half and full back???

A kid? Paul Hanlon is 22 and has been playing in the SPL for four years now. He may have been thrown in early, but he's gone backwards as a player IMO. He needs to start acting like a leader and cut out the silly mistakes. This is a crucial point in his career and he needs to step up and be counted from now until the end of the season.

[NORTHERNHIBBY]

The only question about centre halfs that remains outstanding is why O'Hanlon wasn't asked to take the long walk out the same door as Hart.

[ancient hibee]

As a MOAN thread this is definitely not Hibs class.Must do better.

[skipster7]

football is brilliant with all the different opinions.i cant believe anyone thinks stephens is a prospect,slow,weak,no passing ability and no game awareness.no chance he will make it at even this level.all my opinion of course.hopefully move on in the summer.

[SquashedFrogg]

A kid? Paul Hanlon is 22 and has been playing in the SPL for four years now. He may have been thrown in early, but he's gone backwards as a player IMO. He needs to start acting like a leader and cut out the silly mistakes. This is a crucial point in his career and he needs to step up and be counted from now until the end of the season.

I guess you may have to think about a change of username mate if that's your thoughts. Can I remind you Davie Weir has just hung up his boots at 41 which gives PH a good 18 years to develop.

DW is slipping backwards much quicker based on your theory :agree:

Give Hanlon (and Wotherspoon for that matter) a good manager and team to play in and he/they will turn into a very good player/s.

I'm guessing Brown, Whittaker & Co would be rated as duds in this team :agree:

[Speedy]

I would have thought that asking the right decisions a lot was one of the attributes of a good player.

Without talking about Stephens specifically.

I'd have thought that decision making would the attribute that is most likely to come with experience.

[.Sean.]

I genuinely believe if Stephens has an experienced 'good' centre half playing next to him then he will become good. Has all the attributes to be a good player just makes the wrong decisions alot

I agree Auld Yin, I like Stephens. I reckon he'd come on leaps and bounds playing alongside someone like McPake as opossed to playing alongside Hanlon.



I'd have Stephens in my defence ahead of Hanlon anytime.



As for O'Hanlon... :bye:

[.Sean.]

Gary Smith Aberdeen played RB and CB, Paul Ritchie Hearts played RB and CB, Alan McLaren Hearts RB and CB, am sure there was a boy from Rangers Scott Nisbet (scored that flukey goal in europe from the right and bounced on the pen spot) played CB or RB< Scott Wilson Dunfermline boy played RB and CB, John Kennedy Celtic played CB and RB on occassions.....think there is a pattern here, no LB's.

Davie Robertson Aberdeen was a LB don't know if he played CB though.

Before anyone says anything these guys would have walked into our team in their day, defo into any of today's teams in the SPL.
Gary Smith was a brilliant player for Hibs, especially in Mowbray's first year.

[BroxburnHibee]

I can't believe Fenlon hasn't signed another CB. Our defence has been shocking for two years, and yet, having signed nine players, we will still have to watch Hanlon/O'Hanlon/Murray/Stevens cost us games for the rest of the season.

I'm excited by some of the loan signings, but I can see us playing well against Killie, getting into the lead, only to chuck it away again because one of the above defenders mucks up again.

Oh dear :tee hee:

[Wotherspiniesta]

I guess you may have to think about a change of username mate if that's your thoughts. Can I remind you Davie Weir has just hung up his boots at 41 which gives PH a good 18 years to develop.

DW is slipping backwards much quicker based on your theory :agree:

Give Hanlon (and Wotherspoon for that matter) a good manager and team to play in and he/they will turn into a very good player/s.

I'm guessing Brown, Whittaker & Co would be rated as duds in this team :agree:


I'm not arguing about DW on this thread, but he's not had as long a spell in the one position as Hanlon has to improve his game IMO.

I'm not disputing that. But you can't blame Hanlon's individual errors on anyone else but himself and he needs to start learning from his mistakes, attack the ball and put his head in where it hurts. Otherwise he'll not make it as a Centre Back. Simple as.

[Dashing Bob S]

I think Hanlon and Stephens are both potentially decent players and can improve. However, both have flaws and Hanlon, with more game time, ought to have developed more than he has.

I can see him not making it at SPL level, and I wouldn't have said that a year ago. With a more experienced and decent centre back alongside he might thrive, but he has to be drinking in the last chance saloon now.

[blackpoolhibs]

I cant believe we didn't sign another kit man, how are we expected to manage with only one?

[Feed McGraw]

You just cannot be serious on this! There is no more maligned player on this board than that young man.

I really hope he comes good in some position for Hibs and gives you and your ilk an almighty two fingers!:greengrin

Sean O`Hanlon is MUCH more maligned on this board, as was Hart and arguably Sproule as well now.
We all hope Paul can improve, but he`s up against it now as the changes are made. He`s had a long time to establish himself in the team and come up short I`m afraid, all IMO of course.

[Scouse Hibee]

I can't believe Fenlon hasn't signed another CB. Our defence has been shocking for two years, and yet, having signed nine players, we will still have to watch Hanlon/O'Hanlon/Murray/Stevens cost us games for the rest of the season.

I'm excited by some of the loan signings, but I can see us playing well against Killie, getting into the lead, only to chuck it away again because one of the above defenders mucks up again.

Never mind that I can't believe we never signed another RB,LB,MF in that window either FFS. I mean just what is PF thinking about unless of course you and I missed something did we? :rolleyes:

[Brooster]

Stephens will be one of the next batch to go, too slow too stiff, too unfit, too accident prone, not up to spl standard and never will be.

[Scouse Hibee]

Stephens will be one of the next batch to go, too slow too stiff, too unfit, too accident prone, not up to spl standard and never will be.

I disagree completely and can see a competent CB in there just waiting to develop :agree:

[AlbertK86]

Hanlon is too small, too weak and not Hibs class, IMHO I believe he's been given an easy ride this past 2yrs, he's been there through all of the troubles in the defence and I think he's been the weak link all the time, with other teams targetting him as the weak spot.

Spot on

[blackpoolhibs]

The whole back 4 have been pish for quite a while. I keep hearing how this player needs someone better in front of him, or that player needs someone more experienced beside him.

Normally good players shine wherever they play, Booth apart i'd not be unhappy if i never saw any of whats been masquerading as a back 4 for us ever again.

[Sir David Gray]

The whole back 4 have been pish for quite a while. I keep hearing how this player needs someone better in front of him, or that player needs someone more experienced beside him.

Normally good players shine wherever they play, Booth apart i'd not be unhappy if i never saw any of whats been masquerading as a back 4 for us ever again.

:top marks Just exactly what I was about to post so you've saved me the bother.

Good players do not require someone else beside them to get them through games, I've read that a lot on here recently, mainly in reference to David Stephens and I really do not agree.

None of the players who have played at centre half for Hibs over the past couple of years have been any good and I would shed no tears if all of them went tomorrow.

Going back to the original question which was asked at the start of this thread, I actually agree.

I am supportive of Fenlon, I am giving him time and space to turn the club around and I think he will come good eventually.

However, I would have liked us to sign one more centre half in January. I've read people saying that we have signed two in McPake and Doherty but I think the case with the latter is that he CAN play centre half, if need be, but is much more comfortable as a right back.

I'm not too happy with the thought of chucking a 20 year old in at centre half, when that is not his natural position.

I think we have potentially done some really good business in the last window and I am excited at seeing them play, but I think another centre half should really have been brought in, because it means that we'll now probably have to rely on at least one of the centre halves who have been so woeful for us over the past few months/years.

[--------]

Is this a wind up thread?? He has gone out and signed an entire new defence and yet people still manage to hit us with negativity!!!


I've just tried a wee bit positivity regarding the defence and been told I'm just hoping for the best and talking Pish. With a CAPITAL PEE, no less. :devil:

McPake and Doherty are centre-backs - McPake a basic stopper and Doherty a quicker type to play alongside him.


But don't tell anyone I told you that.

[basehibby]

I can't believe Fenlon hasn't signed another CB. Our defence has been shocking for two years, and yet, having signed nine players, we will still have to watch Hanlon/O'Hanlon/Murray/Stevens cost us games for the rest of the season.

I'm excited by some of the loan signings, but I can see us playing well against Killie, getting into the lead, only to chuck it away again because one of the above defenders mucks up again.

Fair point - CB has been a major weak spot - McPake seems like the right sort and I'd hope that maybe Stephens and Hanlon could thrive with a bit more solidity besides them. But with Mcpake already banned for the next league game leaving only the relatively unproven Doherty as reinforcements we still don't look convincing in that area.

Re Murray - when fit I still think he's an asset to the team

[Heedersnvolleys]

I think it is a bit worrying that Doherty is being talked about as more of a RB than a CH.

[truehibernian]

I think it is a bit worrying that Doherty is being talked about as more of a RB than a CH.

Why ? You want to play your players where they feel they are most comfortable and where they are most influential surely ? The fact that he is adaptable and can play at CH if need be is a plus, but our full back areas have been so weak in recent seasons.......the last two it's the area most opposition managers and coaches target. The fact we lost so many goals this season and last, IMHO, is because players were getting so much space in the wide areas, unchallenged, allowed to run into space or cross without any closing down. Then the ball becomes a hot potato in the box.

Francomb looked comfy both at RB and RM. If we plan to play a bit more solid and defensive, to get us up the table, then perhaps PF is looking at Doherty and Francomb on one flank, Wee Roberto and Boothy/ROD on the other. Claros and Osbourne in the middle, both I see as being able to sit while one attacks and vice versa. I know most don't, but I also rate Scott for workrate and coming on and giving a bit of edge. A definite confidence player though.

Up top, I have to say that the Doyle/Griffiths combination looks more potent. GOC is off his game and needs to step it up a little IMHO.

Centre half pairing, tin hat on, but I would persist with O'Hanlon and McPake. Yes he has been made to look foolish recently, but for me Stephens and Hanlon have been responsible for shipping more goals. They switch off top easily. It's an area of the pitch that needs a really good partnership, and that requires game time and learning to play together. Hanson and Lawrenson made mistakes, Miller and McLeish did too.......Bruce and Pallister took a wee while to get to know each other's game. When you chop and change things at the back, you leak more goals. Hearts for example don't leak many because they play a regular back four. Dundee United are the same. We need to get into that good habit of the defence picking themselves, and that means players being played to position.

[hibsbollah]

Out of OHanlon Hanlon or Stephens to partner McPake, id rather Stephens. The st johnstone game aside hes been the least worst.

[greenlex]

Out of OHanlon Hanlon or Stephens to partner McPake, id rather Stephens. The st johnstone game aside hes been the least worst.
:agree:

[Beefster]

Out of OHanlon Hanlon or Stephens to partner McPake, id rather Stephens. The st johnstone game aside hes been the least worst.

Agree. I think Stephens has been made to look bad on occasion by his defensive partner too.

[JimBHibees]

Fair point - CB has been a major weak spot - McPake seems like the right sort and I'd hope that maybe Stephens and Hanlon could thrive with a bit more solidity besides them. But with Mcpake already banned for the next league game leaving only the relatively unproven Doherty as reinforcements we still don't look convincing in that area.

Re Murray - when fit I still think he's an asset to the team

Hanlon is also banned for Dons game.

[J-C]

You just cannot be serious on this! There is no more maligned player on this board than that young man.

I really hope he comes good in some position for Hibs and gives you and your ilk an almighty two fingers!:greengrin. My ilk, Hanlon has been a mainstay in this defence fir the past 2 yrs, he's went backwards as a player and his position in this squad is in serious jeopardy. At 6ft max and 12 st dripping wet, he's never a CH in his life unless he toughens up and starts bossing his opponents. My ilk are just honest Hibbies who see and speak the truth, if you don't like that then tough.

[Heedersnvolleys]

Why ? You want to play your players where they feel they are most comfortable and where they are most influential surely ? The fact that he is adaptable and can play at CH if need be is a plus, but our full back areas have been so weak in recent seasons.......the last two it's the area most opposition managers and coaches target. The fact we lost so many goals this season and last, IMHO, is because players were getting so much space in the wide areas, unchallenged, allowed to run into space or cross without any closing down. Then the ball becomes a hot potato in the box.

Francomb looked comfy both at RB and RM. If we plan to play a bit more solid and defensive, to get us up the table, then perhaps PF is looking at Doherty and Francomb on one flank, Wee Roberto and Boothy/ROD on the other. Claros and Osbourne in the middle, both I see as being able to sit while one attacks and vice versa. I know most don't, but I also rate Scott for workrate and coming on and giving a bit of edge. A definite confidence player though.

Up top, I have to say that the Doyle/Griffiths combination looks more potent. GOC is off his game and needs to step it up a little IMHO.

Centre half pairing, tin hat on, but I would persist with O'Hanlon and McPake. Yes he has been made to look foolish recently, but for me Stephens and Hanlon have been responsible for shipping more goals. They switch off top easily. It's an area of the pitch that needs a really good partnership, and that requires game time and learning to play together. Hanson and Lawrenson made mistakes, Miller and McLeish did too.......Bruce and Pallister took a wee while to get to know each other's game. When you chop and change things at the back, you leak more goals. Hearts for example don't leak many because they play a regular back four. Dundee United are the same. We need to get into that good habit of the defence picking themselves, and that means players being played to position.
My point is that Francomb was brought I had thought as RB so why bring another when CH is needed more. I just hope that PF got the chance of Doherty and thought it was too good an opportunity to let pass.

[Andy74]

My point is that Francomb was brought I had thought as RB so why bring another when CH is needed more. I just hope that PF got the chance of Doherty and thought it was too good an opportunity to let pass.

Tend to agree and I think the initial question is valid. Francomb and Doherty seem quite similar type of signings and I'm not sure Doherty is really what we required at centre half.

Still, we need to remind ourselves that it can't all be done in one window and that seeing as we can't just empty everyone at once we still have an array of centre halfs kicking around.

Hopefully one of them, when playing with McPake will suddenly learn to defend properly and cut out the errors.

[JimBHibees]

Tend to agree and I think the initial question is valid. Francomb and Doherty seem quite similar type of signings and I'm not sure Doherty is really what we required at centre half.

Still, we need to remind ourselves that it can't all be done in one window and that seeing as we can't just empty everyone at once we still have an array of centre halfs kicking around.

Hopefully one of them, when playing with McPake will suddenly learn to defend properly and cut out the errors.

I think that is right I'd imagine with Fenlon's knowledge of Doherty and how well he seems to be regarded at Wolves was that this has only come up at the last minute and he didnt want to miss the chance. There was also talk that we were trying to get a deal for McManus at Boro but fell through. It sounds like though that both can play in different positions Francomb in midfield and Doherty at centre half however it does appear that Doherty isnt too far off Wolves first team and think he will play at RB before Francomb.

[Hibeez Boy!xx]

i think we have an alright defense if o'hanlon bucks his ideas up he could turn out to be a good player?:) GGTTH:pfgwa:thumbsup:

[Largshibby]

You just cannot be serious on this! There is no more maligned player on this board than that young man.

I really hope he comes good in some position for Hibs and gives you and your ilk an almighty two fingers!:greengrin


Only when the game finishes or its another suspension!!!

[Dashing Bob S]

I'd be inclined to put Stephens, rather than Hanlon, alongside McPake.

As has been said, Hanlon needs to spend time in the gym and swiging back the protein shakes if he's going to make it as a centre half. Right now he looks as intimating as Rodney Trotter from Only Fools And Horses or Corporal Pike out off Dad's Army, though he provides more laughs than either in his chosen role.

[Largshibby]

There's a lot of criticism about Wotherspoon and Hanlon (esp Hanlon) on this forum but personally I think they are both excellent players who at some point in the future will be worth a lot of money to the club. I'm biased because i like the idea of our own young players coming through but some of the criticism is unjustified. Of course they make mistakes (who doesn't) but they are playing in a defence that is virtually under seige most games and a team that is incapable of defending as a unit. Of course they need help to develop and I hope some of the new guys will do that but the real issue for me is why we have signed so many players in the past who have taken big wages out of the club and spent most of their time on the treatment table. OBrien, De Graff, Duffy, Thornhill are just a few that spring to mind. All seasoned professionals who would have been expected to help the younger players and were apparently unfit before they even arrived.

It would have been really easy for Wotherspoon/Hanlon to have feigned injuries that would have kept them out of the firing line during this tough period but they've not done that. They've been available to play no matter what and that earns them a lot of credit in my eyes. It will also make them even better players in the future. Its also worth remembering that, by all accounts, they are stand outs in the Scotland set up (U-21s ?). Didn't they feature in a team that beat their Dutch counterparts recently? We really need to cut these guys some slack.

[Albion Hibs]

Quite funny how there is so much chat about Hanlon and Stephens "coming good", or "becoming good" with another play along side them. Is that "coming good" or having a better player compensating from them not being good enough?

Whats more, McPake has played one game, and got himself sent off. I think as a support we need to be careful we dont go down the annual route of 'the new guys are excellent, get rid of the old ones' before we have even seen them play. It was not that long ago that we had some classics on here like Martin Scott being 'the next Scott Brown' and Victor Palsson having 'bags of ability', 'class', 'spraying passes around'.

I am not saying that Hanlon or Stephens are not good players in their own right, or that McPake wont be a good player for us, but at times I think we build up players to a ridiculous level only to hammer them to bits when they dont live up to these aspirations.

[Stew the Hibee]

Stephens is the much better prospect IMO. Against ICT he was the best player on the pitch, and at times I feel like he's had to carry Hanlon/O'Hanlon through the game - which has been detrimental since he himself lacks experience and so is prone to mistakes. As long as PF can bring on at least one of either Hanlon or Stephens, then I'd feel a bit more confident for when McPake and Doherty leaves (although I do think McPake will be a permanent signing next season)!

[scoopyboy]

Quite funny how there is so much chat about Hanlon and Stephens "coming good", or "becoming good" with another play along side them. Is that "coming good" or having a better player compensating from them not being good enough?

Whats more, McPake has played one game, and got himself sent off. I think as a support we need to be careful we dont go down the annual route of 'the new guys are excellent, get rid of the old ones' before we have even seen them play. It was not that long ago that we had some classics on here like Martin Scott being 'the next Scott Brown' and Victor Palsson having 'bags of ability', 'class', 'spraying passes around'.

I am not saying that Hanlon or Stephens are not good players in their own right, or that McPake wont be a good player for us, but at times I think we build up players to a ridiculous level only to hammer them to bits when they dont live up to these aspirations.

I think more of a David Weir / Daniel Wilson type partnership is what people are meaning.

Weir helped him a helluva lot and he progressed as a player much quicker because of it.

Just because a young player needs help doesn't mean he's not good enough.

[Albion Hibs]

I think more of a David Weir / Daniel Wilson type partnership is what people are meaning.

Weir helped him a helluva lot and he progressed as a player much quicker because of it.

Just because a young player needs help doesn't mean he's not good enough.

That might be what you mean, but it is not what a lot of others are saying. In any event, Weir was a premiership player and captain, and a full internation, a bit of a difference. In addition Wilson may have improved, it is hard to tell as he went down south a while ago and has never been seen since, other than of course Levein giving him a game.

There is only so much young chat I can handle, I would class a young player in todays game as being in 17-20, not into their 20's when they have had more than enough first team exposure / starts.You will note I did say neither playing IMO was not good enough, but I would rather we had players that were good enough in there own right, rather than players having to compenstate. I dont mind one player educating and bring on another, if that is the case.

[Feed McGraw]

There's a lot of criticism about Wotherspoon and Hanlon (esp Hanlon) on this forum but personally I think they are both excellent players who at some point in the future will be worth a lot of money to the club. I'm biased because i like the idea of our own young players coming through but some of the criticism is unjustified. Of course they make mistakes (who doesn't) but they are playing in a defence that is virtually under seige most games and a team that is incapable of defending as a unit. Of course they need help to develop and I hope some of the new guys will do that but the real issue for me is why we have signed so many players in the past who have taken big wages out of the club and spent most of their time on the treatment table. OBrien, De Graff, Duffy, Thornhill are just a few that spring to mind. All seasoned professionals who would have been expected to help the younger players and were apparently unfit before they even arrived.

It would have been really easy for Wotherspoon/Hanlon to have feigned injuries that would have kept them out of the firing line during this tough period but they've not done that. They've been available to play no matter what and that earns them a lot of credit in my eyes. It will also make them even better players in the future. Its also worth remembering that, by all accounts, they are stand outs in the Scotland set up (U-21s ?). Didn't they feature in a team that beat their Dutch counterparts recently? We really need to cut these guys some slack.

Good grief, you are praising Hanlon and Wotherspoon because they have not feigned injury ? Does that not tell it`s own story when you have to praise them for that ?


Oh, and if O`Brien is a "seasoned professional", then I`m gonna be scouring the skies for flocks of freakin` flying porkers.

[Largshibby]

Good grief, you are praising Hanlon and Wotherspoon because they have not feigned injury ? Does that not tell it`s own story when you have to praise them for that ?


Oh, and if O`Brien is a "seasoned professional", then I`m gonna be scouring the skies for flocks of freakin` flying porkers.

Just saying it would have been easy for them to hide given the current circumstances and the amount of abuse dished out at games and on here. Agree it was the wrong choice of words for OBrien. It would be hard to describe him in any kind of footballing sense but i think at the time he was paraded as a signing who would make a difference.

[Feed McGraw]

Just saying it would have been easy for them to hide given the current circumstances and the amount of abuse dished out at games and on here. Agree it was the wrong choice of words for OBrien. It would be hard to describe him in any kind of footballing sense but i think at the time he was paraded as a signing who would make a difference.

Fair enough Largs, I hate the abuse at games too, but think it`s a bit "overplayed" as an excuse. On forums though it`s just a discussion like you might have back at the pub or somewhere. It`s just folks opinions and the way Hibs have been, there is understandably a lot of frustration.