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Future17
27-01-2012, 03:00 PM
Interesting (and quite moving) article written by the late Justin Fashanu's niece. Particularly interesting comments regarding her dad, John (Justin's brother).

Also would like to hear more (for once) from Joey Barton. I'm not sure where he gets the confidence from in predicting "within the next 10 years there will be an openly gay footballer in the professional game".

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/magazine-16722196

007 Mickey Weir
27-01-2012, 03:02 PM
Hartley..................:greengrin

Oh and all Hibs fans seemingly:rolleyes:

Pretty Boy
27-01-2012, 03:11 PM
It's a strange topic.

On one hand if one or two players 'came out' it may lead to a few more following, the reaction from the fans would be altogether different. I posted a thread on the holy ground forum a while back about attitudes to homosexuality in football and sport in general.and within about 4 posts it had descended into schoolboys giggling and homophobic jokes.

What player in their right mind is going to want to subject themselves to the inevitable immaturity and ignorance of some, not all, football fans.

Greentinted
27-01-2012, 03:13 PM
I recall a similar discussion on these boards a couple of years ago and it descended into a bit of a 'nudge-nudge, wink-wink', 'is there anything you want to tell us' kinda thread. And that pretty much explained, in itself, why coming out as homosexual in the footballing environment is difficult.


I am in no way accusing anyone who contributed to that debate as homophobic/bigoted, it is simply an opinion founded on observation.

bobbyhibs1983
27-01-2012, 03:13 PM
I dont think it ll matters if your openly gay or not.If your a good player or bad player you should not get judged on if your gay or straight, white or black or anything as trival as that if you get me?


the only thing that slightly annoys me is some gays are so ott you know? im not against people who are gay though just some are like that guy from corrie(i know he s only playing a charater and not sure if he s gay in real life) but he just sorta annoys me,being so camp in your face though not all gay men are like that.

Im sure if any of us were footballers and a teammate was gay i doubt it would borther me

Pretty Boy
27-01-2012, 03:17 PM
I dont think it ll matters if your openly gay or not.If your a good player or bad player you should not get judged on if your gay or straight, white or black or anything as trival as that if you get me?


the only thing that slightly annoys me is some gays are so ott you know? im not against people who are gay though just some are like that guy from corrie(i know he s only playing a charater and not sure if he s gay in real life) but he just sorta annoys me,being so camp in your face though not all gay men are like that.

Im sure if any of us were footballers and a teammate was gay i doubt it would borther me

There's a huge difference between being ott and camp and being gay.

I know a few gay guys who are quiet, reserved individuals. I also know a hell of a lot of straight guys and girls who are loud, ott and camp.

Andy74
27-01-2012, 03:33 PM
I don't see it being a big deal, fans and players would just get on with it.

There's no more a problem with homophobia in football than in any other walk of life.

Possibly more opportunity for a bit of winding up from the stands to be fair though.

CropleyWasGod
27-01-2012, 03:39 PM
I don't see it being a big deal, fans and players would just get on with it.

There's no more a problem with homophobia in football than in any other walk of life.

Possibly more opportunity for a bit of winding up from the stands to be fair though.

Just possibly???:greengrin

Football is the last bastion of old-school macho-ness. The abuse (whether you call it banter, winding up or whatever) from people in the stands and in the street would be enough to keep anyone in the closet.

Honestly, would anyone be brave enough to be the first? It would need to be (like the Welsh rugby captain) someone high-profile and near the end of their career.

97hills
27-01-2012, 03:51 PM
I dont think it ll matters if your openly gay or not.If your a good player or bad player you should not get judged on if your gay or straight, white or black or anything as trival as that if you get me?


the only thing that slightly annoys me is some gays are so ott you know? im not against people who are gay though just some are like that guy from corrie(i know he s only playing a charater and not sure if he s gay in real life) but he just sorta annoys me,being so camp in your face though not all gay men are like that.

Im sure if any of us were footballers and a teammate was gay i doubt it would borther me

Afraid I don't "know".

neilmartinrocks
27-01-2012, 03:58 PM
To be brutally honest i would have Graham Norton in the team if he was a decent centre back!!

Mikeystewart
27-01-2012, 04:18 PM
I'd like to hope that the magnitude of support from the open minded football fans would drown out the idiots who would give him abuse. 14 years on from the Fashanu tragedy, the UK has at least moved on a bit and I hope the country would rally to support said football player. I stress the word "hope"

I would imagine the media would also jump on the bandwagon of supporting the first footballer since JF to come out, as not doing so would be completely unacceptable in today's society.

Sir David Gray
27-01-2012, 04:18 PM
To be perfectly honest, what someone does behind closed doors with other consenting adults is entirely their own business and I don't see why that information needs to be put into the public domain.

I'm not interested in the lifestyles that footballers lead, away from the football pitch, as long as they are law abiding, and I have absolutely no interest at all in finding out revelations about a footballer's sex life.

lapsedhibee
27-01-2012, 06:07 PM
I would imagine the media would also jump on the bandwagon of supporting the fist footballer since JF to come out, as not doing so would be completely unacceptable in today's society.
That's a deliberate typo, right?


I have absolutely no interest at all in finding out revelations about a footballer's sex life.

You must have read something about Ryan "The Worm" (http://www.huffingtonpost.co.uk/2012/01/14/rhodri-giggs-ryan-giggs-natasha-giggs-affair_n_1206228.html) Giggs's behaviour, though?

Pretty Boy
27-01-2012, 06:11 PM
To be perfectly honest, what someone does behind closed doors with other consenting adults is entirely their own business and I don't see why that information needs to be put into the public domain.

I'm not interested in the lifestyles that footballers lead, away from the football pitch, as long as they are law abiding, and I have absolutely no interest at all in finding out revelations about a footballer's sex life.

I agree about having no interest in a footballers sex life.

I think the point most people and the arcticle in question are making is.that a footballer shouldnt have to feel embarrassed or afraid to.be open about their sexuality for fear of abuse. I don't think anyone is advocating intimate details of anyone sex life being habitually revealed, gay or otherwise.

Ozyhibby
27-01-2012, 06:17 PM
To be brutally honest i would have Graham Norton in the team if he was a decent centre back!!

He'd get in our team.

HFC 0-7
27-01-2012, 06:27 PM
I don't see it being a big deal, fans and players would just get on with it.

There's no more a problem with homophobia in football than in any other walk of life.

Possibly more opportunity for a bit of winding up from the stands to be fair though.

Dont think its just at the grounds they would be worried about getting winding up from. Players may be worried about what reaction they would get away from the football grounds as well. They may also be worried about what impacts it has on their families, for their families it could be a case of being known as the brother or sister of a footballer to being the brother or sister of the gay footballer.

Re the point in bold, footballers are in the spotlight all the time. People are always looking for an angle to wind up players and this would make it easy for people so I would say there could be a much bigger problem for a player to 'come out' than most other walks of life.

HFC 0-7
27-01-2012, 06:29 PM
I agree about having no interest in a footballers sex life.

I think the point most people and the arcticle in question are making is.that a footballer shouldnt have to feel embarrassed or afraid to.be open about their sexuality for fear of abuse. I don't think anyone is advocating intimate details of anyone sex life being habitually revealed, gay or otherwise.

I think most fans would agree with this, but the papers wouldnt. Its things like this that would keep players from 'coming out'

ancient hibee
27-01-2012, 06:34 PM
I've never understood why well known people feel the necessity to discuss their sexuality-I mean who cares?

Peevemor
27-01-2012, 07:04 PM
I've never understood why well known people feel the necessity to discuss their sexuality-I mean who cares?

I certainly don't - I'm far too busy getting off wi' loadsae burdz.

jdships
27-01-2012, 07:08 PM
To be perfectly honest, what someone does behind closed doors with other consenting adults is entirely their own business and I don't see why that information needs to be put into the public domain.

I'm not interested in the lifestyles that footballers lead, away from the football pitch, as long as they are law abiding, and I have absolutely no interest at all in finding out revelations about a footballer's sex life.

:top marks
To each his own surely :agree:

Cropley10
27-01-2012, 07:15 PM
Football has become more and more PC and there are more laws and more rules than ever before. Being gay used to be a big deal, gay people used to live very different lives, but now, more than ever before, they don't. Gay people can get married, gay people can adopt kids, politicians are openly gay now, so are pop stars and film stars.

There are gay footballers, that much is certain - in fact there was one playing for one of the Edinburgh teams recently. So, what Joey Barton says is absolutely right - it will happen and it should happen, team-mates will know and the Club will know, and all they'll care about is, is he good enough - is he playing well enough, not what he does in his time off.

Cropley10
27-01-2012, 07:16 PM
I've never understood why well known people feel the necessity to discuss their sexuality-I mean who cares?

Come, come - some folk talk about nothing else!

Carheenlea
27-01-2012, 07:43 PM
To be perfectly honest, what someone does behind closed doors with other consenting adults is entirely their own business and I don't see why that information needs to be put into the public domain.

I'm not interested in the lifestyles that footballers lead, away from the football pitch, as long as they are law abiding, and I have absolutely no interest at all in finding out revelations about a footballer's sex life.

Football players have a high profile in the public domain, and the more openly gay players in that public domain can go a long way to improve tolerance levels towards homosexuals. Hiding behind closed doors is not helpful in the slightest in eradicating footballs embarrasing taboo with homosexuality.

S.sct
27-01-2012, 08:20 PM
Football and particularly fans have changed over the past 20 years. Remember the abuse Mark Walters took when becoming the first black player to play in Scotland (particularly at the PBS), I certainly have never heard any racist abuse of any player recently. For me, it would not even register if a Hibs player was homosexual. He would be a Hibs player end of.....

Beefster
27-01-2012, 08:33 PM
I dont think it ll matters if your openly gay or not.If your a good player or bad player you should not get judged on if your gay or straight, white or black or anything as trival as that if you get me?


the only thing that slightly annoys me is some gays are so ott you know? im not against people who are gay though just some are like that guy from corrie(i know he s only playing a charater and not sure if he s gay in real life) but he just sorta annoys me,being so camp in your face though not all gay men are like that.

Im sure if any of us were footballers and a teammate was gay i doubt it would borther me

The two campest men that I've ever know were straight. One of them was married with kids.


To be perfectly honest, what someone does behind closed doors with other consenting adults is entirely their own business and I don't see why that information needs to be put into the public domain.

I'm not interested in the lifestyles that footballers lead, away from the football pitch, as long as they are law abiding, and I have absolutely no interest at all in finding out revelations about a footballer's sex life.

I don't understand the bit in bold. If I tell you that I'm straight, what am I revealing about my sex life beyond the sex of my partners?

SloopJB
27-01-2012, 08:37 PM
Are there any openly heterosexual footballers?

SquashedFrogg
27-01-2012, 09:12 PM
Calum Elliot? :dancer::monkey:

heidtheba
27-01-2012, 10:10 PM
I can't find the link (and I know most people on here are waaaay more informed than I am about footballers) but there was an article years ago in one paper about the treatment of Greame Le Saux. He read the Guardian and was accused of being gay but didn't want to deny it (IIRC) as clearly as others would, for fear of offending people who were gay. His treatment was horrendous -Andy Townsend being one particular name which comes to mind.
Sad state of affairs.

Holmesdale Hibs
27-01-2012, 10:11 PM
I really don't care whether a footballer is gay or not, it doesn't bother me at all and I think the majority of football fans (and the general public) would feel the same.

However, I think there would be a minority of fans who would use it to use it as an excuse to give a player abuse, it's probably comparable to racism 20 years ago. It'll probably take a few players to come out and get abuse from a few ****ers before its accepted by everyone, as opposed to a vast majority which it is now.

Just thinking of the abuse our own players receive from a minority in the crowd, I'm sure if one of them was gay then there would be a few extra words added to the string of abuse.

son of haggart
27-01-2012, 10:46 PM
I arrived about 4 days early for the Atletico Madrid Hearts game back in the early 90s (I was possibly the only person in the world who bought a hoover and got a free flight, and by an amazing piece of serendipidity I bought a ticket to madrid and Hearts were drawn there a few days later)


I met a few guys day before the game who had been on the official flight. They described the players getting stuck into the free flight booze (good old days) and playing 3 card brag. Fashanu was on his own up the front in a pin stripe suit reading the financial times.

There was very little homophobia from the fans towards him, some abuse because he was a crap player. As a black gay catholic he had the lot for the numbskulls but I think it was too much for them and they couldn't work out which one to go for.

I do think that Andy74 is way wrong and that most football teams would be far more reacionary to gay player than the average response in other areas of society. Having played for about 20 years there wasn't much tolerance in the dressing rooms and I don't remember anyone feelign comfortable about coming out though undoubtedly a few of my teammates were gay.

Forza Fred
27-01-2012, 10:47 PM
Jimmy Hill....:wink:

Winston Ingram
27-01-2012, 11:41 PM
I remember him coming out really clearly.

I remember the Sun had TV ads saying '£1m footballer announces he's gay'. They had a player doing keepy upy's outside the Houses of Parliament' but wouldn't didn't show his face.

I was stunned as I couldn't a) believe that there was a gay footballer in England's top league & b) that he was brave enough to admit it. Particularly as AIDS was a big issue at the time

Turns out there wasn't (officially) a player in the top league as Justin IIRC wasn't really playing for anyone due to injury problems. John Fashanu got pelters as he was a top league player, but he reacted really poorly and I maybe wrong but I don't think they spoke again as he openly disowned him in the press

When Justin came to play for Airdrie there were banners slagging him off and loads of chants.

When he signed for Hearts, they were in relegation trouble and at a derby there was a huge banner at Tynie from the Hibs fans saying 'Hearts go down better than Justin'.

It's amazing thinking about these things now. If anyone turned up with a banner like that now they'd get lifted and rightly so.

The article by Fashanu's niece is really good but i'd disagree with Max Clifford. I think there will be and it just needs an agent clever enough to manager it:agree:

Sir David Gray
27-01-2012, 11:48 PM
Football players have a high profile in the public domain, and the more openly gay players in that public domain can go a long way to improve tolerance levels towards homosexuals. Hiding behind closed doors is not helpful in the slightest in eradicating footballs embarrasing taboo with homosexuality.

I'm just not convinced that it's the job of football to "improve tolerance levels of homosexuals".

People's private lives are their private lives and that should be it. As I've said already, what two (or three or four if that's what floats your boat!) consenting adults do in their own homes should be of absolutely no concern to anyone else.

I really don't care at all about football players publicly revealing their sexuality. It's not something I'm sitting wondering about when I'm watching a match to be honest.


I don't understand the bit in bold. If I tell you that I'm straight, what am I revealing about my sex life beyond the sex of my partners?

Whenever a celebrity "comes out", they generally don't just announce that they are a homosexual and that's it, end of story. The tabloids usually make sure that they have a two page spread on them, telling all about their boyfriends etc.

That's what I meant by that, and that goes for anyone regardless of whether they're having homosexual relationships or not.

I don't want to know about those sorts of details and have no interest in any of it.

sesoim
28-01-2012, 12:22 AM
I've never understood why well known people feel the necessity to discuss their sexuality-I mean who cares?



How come any time anyone discusses homosexual celebrities, etc, on the net, someone always finds the need to type "who cares"? Clearly quite a lot of folk do, otherwise it would never get discussed, would it? And it isn't always a bad thing to care either, as long as nobody feels the need to be nasty about it.

sesoim
28-01-2012, 12:32 AM
I'm just not convinced that it's the job of football to "improve tolerance levels of homosexuals".




I agree. And the same could be said for the over the top way footballer is trying to "deal" with racism. If anything, the English FA in particular are making a total arse out of it to the point where they are probably doing more harm than good. There's no harm in campaigns to get everyone to treat each other better and be nicer to each other, but to pick out one particular issue and constantly promote it (particularly in the sometimes condescending pc way English media and organizations do nowadays) could end up antagonizing people.

stoneyburn hibs
28-01-2012, 12:41 AM
An openly gay footballer in the spl wouldnt get me upset, i would tolerate it, as i do with them in other walks of life, that maybe is/comes across as homophobic to other posters , but its my opinion , its the mincing that upsets me with them.

stu in nottingham
28-01-2012, 12:47 AM
Justin Fashanu had a pretty difficult time in Nottingham. A million pound signing (really significant money at the time) put a lot of pressure on him after his move to the City Ground from Carrow Road. Rumours abounded in the city about his regular appearances at gay clubs and it got back to Clough who was not an understanding character in that respect.

A big problem was that Justin was such an abject failure after his big money move. It sounds crass to say but if he'd had a modicum of success it may have taken the pressure off him in some way. This didn't happen and on the pitch, his every action became heavily scrutinised and under the spotlight on Trentside. He appeared clumsy, off the pace and generally just overrated.

Justin was one of a series of disasters that Clough and Taylor engineered at Forest after winning a couple of European Cups and acting like they could do no wrong. He was absolutely hopeless at Forest and soon after was transferred on a cut-price deal to Meadow Lane, home of Forest's city rivals County, for just £100,000. I watched him at both grounds and he was terrible. He really was.

None of the above detracts from the difficult trail he was blazing. It's sad now to think of the way he was hounded in Nottingham. From a fan's point of view, in my humble opinion, and despite the undoubted homophobia in football at that time which was if anything worse than now, he was mainly criticised for his poor performances. I got the feeling that the majority on the terraces didn't really believe or comprehend the rumours surrounding his private life. I do feel, looking back, he walked a lonely path though.

From The Tears of a Clown:
http://stuartfrew.wordpress.com/2007/08/11/justin-fashanu/

Greentinted
28-01-2012, 01:05 AM
An openly gay footballer in the spl wouldnt get me upset, i would tolerate it, as i do with them in other walks of life, that maybe is/comes across as homophobic to other posters , but its my opinion , its the mincing that upsets me with them.

Do you 'tolerate' disabled folk, Asian people (which maybe is/comes across as racist), or perhaps Catholics/Protestants/7th Day Adventists (merely used as examples of folks who are often defined by others in terms of one particular aspect of their personage)? Or is it just the 'gays' - and do gay women apply to this rationale or are they exempt if they stay in the kitchen and do a turn for the chaps - because of the stereotype?
I know a good few blokes who happen to be homosexual and John Inman they ain't - that's a 1970's cliche.

But fair play, everybody's free to have an opinion.

As a post script, interesting to note that this thread was started on what is little known as Holocaust Memorial Day which continues to campaign against all forms of prejudice.
http://www.speakupnow.org.uk/challenge_the_language.php

muzzhfc
28-01-2012, 04:33 AM
An openly gay footballer in the spl wouldnt get me upset, i would tolerate it, as i do with them in other walks of life, that maybe is/comes across as homophobic to other posters , but its my opinion , its the mincing that upsets me with them.

you follow football, if you didnt want mincing, go watch rugby. football is filled with players who mince about (aka divers)

If a pro was to come out and say he was gay then i think he would get absolute dogs abuse. lets look at that ginger twat lennon. we all hate him cause we think he is a dispicable person. where as the rankgers all hate him because of his religious beliefs/where he was born (as do the yams). can you imagine a gay footballer going to tin castle/darkheid/castle gray skull and not getting abuse. then, of course, the fans of these teams all have an education of a bat so would go way ott in their abuse as they did with lennon(i dont condone anything that has been done to lennon, as much as i hate him).
I work with many gay people and know gay people and I have nothing against them, if a Hibs player said "I am gay" it wouldnt bother me. but it would bother too many. too many being 1

Mikeystewart
28-01-2012, 05:16 AM
That's a deliberate typo, right?

You must have read something about Ryan "The Worm" (http://www.huffingtonpost.co.uk/2012/01/14/rhodri-giggs-ryan-giggs-natasha-giggs-affair_n_1206228.html) Giggs's behaviour, though?

sorry, don't know what typo you are referring too.

Beefster
28-01-2012, 07:34 AM
I'm just not convinced that it's the job of football to "improve tolerance levels of homosexuals".

Footballers are role-models to millions of young kids, rightly or wrongly. If they can help make the lives of a few kids easier or help make folk more tolerant, I don't see what the issue is. Whose 'job' is it to improve tolerance levels? Presumably you don't think footballers should be doing anything to stop racism, poverty, sick kids and so on?




Whenever a celebrity "comes out", they generally don't just announce that they are a homosexual and that's it, end of story. The tabloids usually make sure that they have a two page spread on them, telling all about their boyfriends etc.

That's what I meant by that, and that goes for anyone regardless of whether they're having homosexual relationships or not.

I don't want to know about those sorts of details and have no interest in any of it.

I don't read tabloids or celebrity mags so I'll need to take your word for it. Obviously, there will be a huge fuss made when the first footballer comes out but it'll blow over. By the way, 'telling all about their boyfriends' still doesn't sound like spilling the beans on their sex life.


An openly gay footballer in the spl wouldnt get me upset, i would tolerate it, as i do with them in other walks of life, that maybe is/comes across as homophobic to other posters , but its my opinion , its the mincing that upsets me with them.

Brilliant. Seeing as you seem to think that all homosexuals 'mince', I doubt that you've had much contact. "I'm probably not homophobic but I hate the way those ****ers walk..."

H18sry
29-01-2012, 01:39 PM
http://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/b01bncfg

neilmartinrocks
29-01-2012, 01:43 PM
sorry, don't know what typo you are referring too.

just noticed it myself has to be a typo!!
"the FIST football player...."

skipster7
29-01-2012, 03:16 PM
To be brutally honest i would have Graham Norton in the team if he was a decent centre back!!

that made me laugh,we could do worse than a front 2 of louie spence and alan carr:greengrin
remember reading alan carrs book and his dad was a scout at newcastle after a decent playing career,determined to turn his son into a player and had him running from tree to tree until he eventually realised it was a lost cause:greengrin

joe breezy
29-01-2012, 04:12 PM
Ha ha, the mincing upsets me, who cares, if everyone was the same it would be a boring world, tragic case Fashanu's - whatever people want to do in their own bedroom is up to them as long as it's consenting adults involved

CropleyWasGod
29-01-2012, 04:35 PM
I'm a bit disappointed that the debate seems to be about "what people do behind closed doors", as if sexuality is all about sex. That, in itself, shows a level of ignorance which doesn't do anyone any favours.

For the unenlightened, gay men and women fall in love, have life-long relationships, fall out of love, have affairs, are celibate, build families... in short, just about every emotional experience that the hetties have.

Mikeystewart
29-01-2012, 04:35 PM
just noticed it myself has to be a typo!!
"the FIST football player...."

Haha didn't notice that either, dam spell check!!

Scouse Hibee
29-01-2012, 04:43 PM
I'm a bit disappointed that the debate seems to be about "what people do behind closed doors", as if sexuality is all about sex. That, in itself, shows a level of ignorance which doesn't do anyone any favours.

For the unenlightened, gay men and women fall in love, have life-long relationships, fall out of love, have affairs, are celibate, build families... in short, just about every emotional experience that the hetties have.


Not many of them suffer from claustrophobia though.

nonshinyfinish
29-01-2012, 04:56 PM
I'm a bit disappointed that the debate seems to be about "what people do behind closed doors", as if sexuality is all about sex. That, in itself, shows a level of ignorance which doesn't do anyone any favours.

For the unenlightened, gay men and women fall in love, have life-long relationships, fall out of love, have affairs, are celibate, build families... in short, just about every emotional experience that the hetties have.

:agree: The stuff about "I'm not interested in the details of players' sex lives" is spectacularly missing the point, IMO. Heterosexual footballers are not compelled to conceal their sexuality due to a culture of hate, homosexual footballers are. Nothing to do with tabloid kiss'n'tell nonsense.

blackpoolhibs
29-01-2012, 04:59 PM
Gay or not, we certainly need someone who can play in that hole just behind.

NAE NOOKIE
29-01-2012, 06:10 PM
Like most folk I couldnt care less how many gay players Hibs had in the team as long as the knew how to keep the ball out of the net at our end and could put it in the net at the other.

I guess that most gay players could take the abuse from the stands, but whether they could take remarks and comments from their own team mates is another matter. I would bet that they fear the macho culture within football a lot more than abuse from a few neds for 90 minutes every Saturday.

Thats the trouble with this country, we are so supressed with regard to sex and sexuality that stuff that shouldnt matter becomes a big deal.

Look at the Tommy Sheridan situation. He wasnt doing anything illegal, and as far as I am aware his misses was onside with it. But because he was so desperate to keep his recreational activities away from the judgmental and holyer than though British press and public he ended up getting himself 3 years in the Big House by lying about it in court.

cabbageandribs1875
29-01-2012, 06:20 PM
off-topic a bit, but i notice Free Willy is on ITV2 at the moment, i thought of this thread when i saw it, if anyones interested







:greengrin

joe breezy
29-01-2012, 06:55 PM
Like most folk I couldnt care less how many gay players Hibs had in the team as long as the knew how to keep the ball out of the net at our end and could put it in the net at the other.

I guess that most gay players could take the abuse from the stands, but whether they could take remarks and comments from their own team mates is another matter. I would bet that they fear the macho culture within football a lot more than abuse from a few neds for 90 minutes every Saturday.

Thats the trouble with this country, we are so supressed with regard to sex and sexuality that stuff that shouldnt matter becomes a big deal.

Look at the Tommy Sheridan situation. He wasnt doing anything illegal, and as far as I am aware his misses was onside with it. But because he was so desperate to keep his recreational activities away from the judgmental and holyer than though British press and public he ended up getting himself 3 years in the Big House by lying about it in court.

Bang on

JennaFletcher
29-01-2012, 09:49 PM
I'm a bit disappointed that the debate seems to be about "what people do behind closed doors", as if sexuality is all about sex. That, in itself, shows a level of ignorance which doesn't do anyone any favours.

For the unenlightened, gay men and women fall in love, have life-long relationships, fall out of love, have affairs, are celibate, build families... in short, just about every emotional experience that the hetties have.

I fully agree. Sexual orientation is not all about sex. Some posters on here have commented saying "nobodies private life concerns me, don't want to know what they get up to" type attitude but it's not about exposing anyones sex life but exposing the truth (being gay) and being honest and upfront about this. Why is this positive? Because homosexuality exists, gay people should not feel under pressure (by fans, society, the media or anyone) to hide it. Instead, I reckon they should be upfront about it. It only encourages a more open, democratic and representative society.

Looking forward to tomorrows documentary on BBC3 "Britain's Gay Footballers" at 9pm.

Found this vid on BBC really interesting as well - Amal Fashanu, niece of Justin Fashanu, meets Max Clifford to discuss gay footballers and why they are still in the closet: http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/magazine-16723072

Hibercelona
30-01-2012, 03:34 AM
Why can't they just be gay and get on with their lives the same as everybody else?

As far as i'm concerned, gay people shouldn't feel the need to go around telling everybody that they are. Would you go around telling people that you're straight? Of course not.

Lets just accept that straight/gay people are really quite indifferent and are just people who want to get on with their lives and persue the careers that they're good at.

All these endless debates that go on in the world are pointless.

joe breezy
30-01-2012, 04:58 AM
The term gay is a sexual statement though, that's probably why people can be uncomfortable with it.
It's a sexual preference; it's not a term that says 'I do all the things that straight people do'. It feels like it's almost the opposite.

It doesn't matter but because of its nature it's always going to be uncomfortable for some and some people will see it as a sexual statement.

If someone has a particular sexual preference that isn't gay they're not expected to 'come out' or bring it up the way it seems gay people are.
Whether it's dogging, asphyxiation or ladyboys there are lots of sexual desires and practices that aren't so much seen as much as a major part of someone's identity perhaps. Then there's bisexuality that doesn't seem to be acknowledged much at all with all the use of the word gay.

Particularly for males gayness is often seen as a weakness and an affront to masculinity. It's part of male culture that homosexuality isn't acceptable between pals. I'm not sure when or if that will change.

Beefster
30-01-2012, 07:43 AM
Why can't they just be gay and get on with their lives the same as everybody else?

As far as i'm concerned, gay people shouldn't feel the need to go around telling everybody that they are. Would you go around telling people that you're straight? Of course not.

Lets just accept that straight/gay people are really quite indifferent and are just people who want to get on with their lives and persue the careers that they're good at.

All these endless debates that go on in the world are pointless.

No, I generally won't mention that I'm straight to people. I don't feel the need to avoid mentioning Mrs Beefster either or think that I'd be treated like a pariah if I did tell folk that I was straight though.

You're not comparing apples with apples IMHO.

NORTHERNHIBBY
30-01-2012, 07:52 AM
Whatever the content or the narrative of the programme, when it is done, will we be any better informed or adjusted to an issue that has more to do woth our society? Having a programme about football is surely just reporting on another adversely impacted area. That we know that there is an appetite bigotry and discrimination in our society, that is not equally matched by a drive to stamp it out, is surely the real point, that has been made over and over again.

Cauld Bovril
30-01-2012, 09:54 AM
I dont think it ll matters if your openly gay or not.If your a good player or bad player you should not get judged on if your gay or straight, white or black or anything as trival as that if you get me?


the only thing that slightly annoys me is some gays are so ott you know? im not against people who are gay though just some are like that guy from corrie(i know he s only playing a charater and not sure if he s gay in real life) but he just sorta annoys me,being so camp in your face though not all gay men are like that.

Im sure if any of us were footballers and a teammate was gay i doubt it would borther me

This is a wind up eh?

ancient hibee
30-01-2012, 06:48 PM
How come any time anyone discusses homosexual celebrities, etc, on the net, someone always finds the need to type "who cares"? Clearly quite a lot of folk do, otherwise it would never get discussed, would it? And it isn't always a bad thing to care either, as long as nobody feels the need to be nasty about it.

Funnily enough I didn't have a need to type "who cares".The fact is I don't care about the sexuality of total strangers and I think that those who do have something lacking in their own lives.

The Fash was a nce lad but somewhat naive.He was renting a flat in Northumberland Street which he thought had a rats.He hired a guy for £50 a night to sit in his sitting room with a shotgun to blast them to eternity.You don't have to be an Einstein to realise that the rat problem was not solved overnight and it was only when it was suggested to him that he was getting taken to the cleaners that he called the deal off.

Scouse Hibee
30-01-2012, 07:15 PM
Funnily enough I didn't have a need to type "who cares".The fact is I don't care about the sexuality of total strangers and I think that those who do have something lacking in their own lives.

The Fash was a nce lad but somewhat naive.He was renting a flat in Northumberland Street which he thought had a rats.He hired a guy for £50 a night to sit in his sitting room with a shotgun to blast them to eternity.You don't have to be an Einstein to realise that the rat problem was not solved overnight and it was only when it was suggested to him that he was getting taken to the cleaners that he called the deal off.


:faf: Got to be a wind up surely, there's no way he could be that naive!

Sammy7nil
30-01-2012, 07:20 PM
Is this a Paul Hartley thread :confused::confused::confused::confused:

edinburghhibee
30-01-2012, 08:59 PM
program starting now on bbc 3 if intrested

snooky
30-01-2012, 09:07 PM
Bang on

:rotflmao: :aok:

joe breezy
30-01-2012, 09:38 PM
:rotflmao: :aok:

Gangbang on I shoulda said :)

joe breezy
30-01-2012, 09:38 PM
I just switched the programme on a bit late...

joe breezy
30-01-2012, 09:44 PM
John Fashanu is clearly a total bellend, ****ball