Transfer Target: Jim Goodwin (Signs extension with St Mirren)

[NORTHERNHIBBY]

Fair play to Goodwin, because he has played the system to his advantage and got himslef a nice, if unexpected, wee bonus on his contract. But, there is no need for us to edge towards the window-sill and jump. Goodwin isn't the only player that would have done us. He is an example of the type that we require. So if PF has identified this, we move on an get a recruit from somewhere else. Not plausible that we will suddenly not need a definite requirement, surely?:rolleyes:

[Captain Trips]

No mention of the big bad Hibs Board in this article!

Could it simply be a case that Goodwin is part of a dying breed of footballers who really does have a sense of loyalty and is content with his lot?



http://www.dailyrecord.co.uk/football/spl/2012/01/26/jim-goodwin-turns-down-hibs-offer-and-signs-new-deal-with-st-mirren-86908-23721357/

Probably not I would assume money was a major player and easy to say the nice stuff about St Mirren once signed, Hibs failed to make the club appealing something I was told the likes of East Mains etc would do.

[BT58]

if the guy dont want to come to the cabbage then ****** HIM!!!!!!!
Weve got till tuesday to get the other players in,,maybe PF has other targets lined up,,,it would seem that they guys who are in the know are getting hee-haw from their sources,we might get news in the days to come that there are players ready to come to ER
TIME WILL TELL
bt

[Captain Trips]

if the guy dont want to come to the cabbage then ****** HIM!!!!!!!
Weve got till tuesday to get the other players in,,maybe PF has other targets lined up,,,it would seem that they guys who are in the know are getting hee-haw from their sources,we might get news in the days to come that there are players ready to come to ER
TIME WILL TELL
bt

He did want to come or why bother seeing us? He came to see what we had on offer and it didnt meet what he wanted. I would say he didnt want to come if he did not come out to see club but he did so there was something.

[Spike Mandela]

I might be wrong, but I think we've brought more players in than any other SPL club and we don't have unlimited funds.

Unfortunately our lowly position and lack of talent means we need more players than other SPL clubs at this moment. We either supply suitable standard players or face the consequences.

I would have thought our current position might have meant we went that extra mile to ensure we got Goodwin but now I have to accept that we just aren't an attractive option to the targets we are pursuing and have to set our sights a little lower.

[Andy74]

Probably not I would assume money was a major player and easy to say the nice stuff about St Mirren once signed, Hibs failed to make the club appealing something I was told the likes of East Mains etc would do.

Well, that's one way to completely turn the article right around.

Why? What's the point?

[Captain Trips]

Well, that's one way to completely turn the article right around.

Why? What's the point?

Why would a player go see another club? He didnt fancy it and made those statements that are easy to make and will remain popular with the fans, exactly what I would do.

[Wilson]

Hibs wont have been his only other option. He could have waited out his contract and invited championship offers. As it is he took the short sighted and unambitious option. Not signing for us is more his loss than ours. Believe that.

[Craig_in_Prague]

Let's face it, we'll never replace the Matty Jack role.

a bit disapointed he didn't sign, but let's not wet our knickers, even if it's a bit of a slap in the face, or a reminder of how unnappealing we are right now.

**** him, the Hibees will rise again soon - As I said earlier, when has St Mirren ever had fans locked outside of Hampden?

a year from now, we'll say Jim who. His loss.

GGTTH

:flag:

[Andy74]

Why would a player go see another club? He didnt fancy it and made those statements that are easy to make and will remain popular with the fans, exactly what I would do.

Hibs asked to speak with him and he said that out of respect he met Fenlon and had an interesting conversation.

I've done that before and also decided to stay where I am.

Does he strike you as the type that says things just to look good?

I think everyone here comes out with a bit of credit for doing things the right way and in the a man has decided to do the best thing for himself in terms of his overall happiness.

People in all sorts of jobs can make a wee bit more cash by moving and uprooting the family and your life. Quite often though the fact you are quite happy where you are at that point is the major factor in saying no.

[Captain Trips]

Hibs asked to speak with him and he said that out of respect he met Fenlon and had an interesting conversation.

I've done that before and also decided to stay where I am.

Does he strike you as the type that says things just to look good?

I think everyone here comes out with a bit of credit for doing things the right way and in the a man has decided to do the best thing for himself in terms of his overall happiness.

People in all sorts of jobs can make a wee bit more cash by moving and uprooting the family and your life. Quite often though the fact you are quite happy where you are at that point is the major factor in saying no.

None of us can know 100% I will stick with my opinion and I am sure with yours.

[matty_f]

Why would a player go see another club? He didnt fancy it and made those statements that are easy to make and will remain popular with the fans, exactly what I would do.


he might have been weighing up bags of sweeties.

[Hibbyradge]

I am like many unsure about what went on but that comment interests me radge, we didn't want him till the summer? Why would we not want him now?

Succession planning?

Budget profiling?

Style of play?

St Mirren refusing to sell?

Could be any number of reasons for lining up a new signing in the summer.

[IWasThere2016]

Shock, horror ................ experienced, reliable defender opts for a nondescript, provincial, minnow football club in favour of a massive ( in the words of incoming, inexperienced, unknown quantity youngsters) sleeping giant of a club, with a relatively clean financial bill of health, a fine stadium and arguably the finest training facilities in the country. Hey, maybe we're not all we're cracked up to be. :rolleyes:

:boo hoo:

He's a loss IMHO - as he is IMHO exactly what we need and now! I think if it is correct - and I seriously doubt it - we have offered £85k (for a 30-y/o with 4 months on his contract) then we would have backed this up with a wage that would have been attractive also. My view is we didn't offer such a fee; and regardless Goodwin has decided not to take the risk of relegation.

[Captain Trips]

he might have been weighing up bags of sweeties.

Indeed and opted for the humbugs.

[Hibbyradge]

Managers identify the targets. It's the job of the board to deliver the targets. With Goodwin they failed to do so.

As I've said repeatedly whoever is our manager is letting it be known that our targets are not being secured.

The end result is where we are in the SPL.

That's so simplistic, it isn't true.

You have no idea why he didn't sign.

Maybe he didn't like Pat Fenlon. Maybe he didn't like Rod Petrie. Maybe he wasn't guaranteed a starting place. Maybe he doean't like the fans he's met. Maybe his wife would spend too much in the designer village. Maybe he didn't like his locker.

Your inability to see past blamimg the board is now verging on the fanatical.

[matty_f]

That's so simplistic, it isn't true.

You have no idea why he didn't sign.

Maybe he didn't like Pat Fenlon. Maybe he didn't like Rod Petrie. Maybe he wasn't guaranteed a starting place. Maybe he doean't like the fans he's met. Maybe his wife would spend too much in the designer village. Maybe he didn't like his locker.

Your inability to see past blamimg the board is now verging on the fanatical.


Stop being hysterical.:agree:

[Spike Mandela]

Hibs asked to speak with him and he said that out of respect he met Fenlon and had an interesting conversation.

I've done that before and also decided to stay where I am.

Does he strike you as the type that says things just to look good?

I think everyone here comes out with a bit of credit for doing things the right way and in the a man has decided to do the best thing for himself in terms of his overall happiness.

People in all sorts of jobs can make a wee bit more cash by moving and uprooting the family and your life. Quite often though the fact you are quite happy where you are at that point is the major factor in saying no.

Great if everyone comes out with a bit of credit, what a brilliant day for Hibs.:rolleyes:

You make it sound like he's spent 20 years in an accounting firm and in a comfort zone not wanting to uproot his family. He's a footballer, it's a transient business for goodness sake. I know people that commute every day from Paisley it's hardly moving to China.

Hibs wanted him, those negotiating failed for whatever reason and now Hibs have wasted time and effort on a player for a critical position in the team.

All he's said in the press conference is the courteous and professional response which is totally predictable. A bit like the usual guff written in a Hibs press release when dumping another bit of dead wood "would like to thank him for his efforts" blah blah.

[ScottB]

Fair play to Goodwin, because he has played the system to his advantage and got himslef a nice, if unexpected, wee bonus on his contract. But, there is no need for us to edge towards the window-sill and jump. Goodwin isn't the only player that would have done us. He is an example of the type that we require. So if PF has identified this, we move on an get a recruit from somewhere else. Not plausible that we will suddenly not need a definite requirement, surely?:rolleyes:

Far too sensible a post...

He wouldn't be the first person to use interest from somewhere else to get a pay rise, despite never having intended to actually leave.

Given that PF seems to have tried to force an answer out of him this week, I'd say the pieces fit that explanation, rather than the usual 'PETRIEEEEE!!!!11!1!!' explanations.

[Hibbyradge]

Stop being hysterical.:agree:

Eh?

I thought I had made my point rather succinctly. :na na:

[Captain Trips]

That's so simplistic, it isn't true.

You have no idea why he didn't sign.

Maybe he didn't like Pat Fenlon. Maybe he didn't like Rod Petrie. Maybe he wasn't guaranteed a starting place. Maybe he doean't like the fans he's met. Maybe his wife would spend too much in the designer village. Maybe he didn't like his locker.

Your inability to see past blamimg the board is now verging on the fanatical.

He came to see us, knowing our SPL position knowing how far it is from where he lives knowing enough to be happy to come out, I think like in most cases with players there was something finacial as the bottom line reason, yeah we do not know but that is what I think. I would understand a player not playing in Scotland before not signing for lots of reasons however Goodwin will have good knowledge of Hibs and will have went there in the hope all met his hopes, something didnt which maybe a concern.

[greenlex]

He came to see us, knowing our SPL position knowing how far it is from where he lives knowing enough to be happy to come out, I think like in most cases with players there was something finacial as the bottom line reason, yeah we do not know but that is what I think. I would understand a player not playing in Scotland before not signing for lots of reasons however Goodwin will have good knowledge of Hibs and will have went there in the hope all met his hopes, something didnt which maybe a concern.

Maybe he was ****ing Hibs about to get more cash out of St Mirren? Maybe Hibs just said No.

[marinello59]

Probably not I would assume money was a major player and easy to say the nice stuff about St Mirren once signed, Hibs failed to make the club appealing something I was told the likes of East Mains etc would do.

:rotflmao::rotflmao::rotflmao:

[marinello59]

He came to see us, knowing our SPL position knowing how far it is from where he lives knowing enough to be happy to come out, I think like in most cases with players there was something finacial as the bottom line reason, yeah we do not know but that is what I think. I would understand a player not playing in Scotland before not signing for lots of reasons however Goodwin will have good knowledge of Hibs and will have went there in the hope all met his hopes, something didnt which maybe a concern.

Vestal virgins etc ?

[greenlex]

Vestal virgins etc ?
In the Tranent/ Ormiston area? Aye right!!!!

[Hibbyradge]

He came to see us, knowing our SPL position knowing how far it is from where he lives knowing enough to be happy to come out, I think like in most cases with players there was something finacial as the bottom line reason, yeah we do not know but that is what I think. I would understand a player not playing in Scotland before not signing for lots of reasons however Goodwin will have good knowledge of Hibs and will have went there in the hope all met his hopes, something didnt which maybe a concern.

Ok, so we have established that you have no idea why he extended his contract in Paisley.

Now, humour me for a moment, please.

If I could prove to you that Hibs offer to him was better than St Mirren's, what reasons could there be for him not signing on the dotted line?

[PaulSmith]

Ok, so we have established that you have no idea why he extended his contract with Hibs.

Now, humour me for a moment, please.

If I could prove to you that Hibs offer to him was better than St Mirren's, what reasons could there be for him not signing on the dotted line?

If you can do that it would settle a lot of debate.

[jdships]

Does nobody think that perhaps JUST PERHAPS the guy was happy living and playing in the W of S ?
Family were happy , kids at good school - why move?
It does happen you know !!!!:wink::greengrin

[Captain Trips]

:rotflmao::rotflmao::rotflmao:

Thats what I was told when I said East Mains was a massive overspend and we should have went smaller, was told by how it might be the deciding factor for some players that we have this. I disagreed then and still do what wiull secure most of our targets is wages.

[Captain Trips]

Does nobody think that perhaps JUST PERHAPS the guy was happy living and playing in the W of S ?
Family were happy , kids at good school - why move?
It does happen you know !!!!:wink::greengrin

But he came out with all this in mind, if we want to be positive we can say never had intention of signing just did it to get more from St Mirren or we didnt impress him enough when he came out.

[BT58]

so mr carlsberg,,, if you where offered another job, would you not go and see what the terms where,maybee he just didnt fancy playing for us,,,but not every person moves
some people let things slip to their bosses so that they can maybe get a better deal to stay
all hear say off course,,,,,,
bt

[Captain Trips]

Ok, so we have established that you have no idea why he extended his contract in Paisley.

Now, humour me for a moment, please.

If I could prove to you that Hibs offer to him was better than St Mirren's, what reasons could there be for him not signing on the dotted line?

I do not know do I, maybe he didnt like the plans for team I do not know, the point is he came out and we didnt get him. Can you prove we offered more? If not I can easily say I can prove we offered less hypothetically.

[bingo70]

Does nobody think that perhaps JUST PERHAPS the guy was happy living and playing in the W of S ?
Family were happy , kids at good school - why move?
It does happen you know !!!!:wink::greengrin

He could have stayed there, Mark Brown and Mcpake are travelling through from the west and hibs haven't moved so if he didn't want to move here he wouldn't have spoken to us.

IMO he was interested in the move but he didn't get offered enough to make the move worthwhile

[Captain Trips]

so mr carlsberg,,, if you where offered another job, would you not go and see what the terms where,maybee he just didnt fancy playing for us,,,but not every person moves
some people let things slip to their bosses so that they can maybe get a better deal to stay
all hear say off course,,,,,,
bt

Yes I would do that also, I havent ruled that out that he was just playing us off it is a real possibility.

[Hibbyradge]

I do not know do I, maybe he didnt like the plans for team I do not know, the point is he came out and we didnt get him.

This is true.

Did we make him an offer? :dunno:

Funnily enough, I went to see a holiday home once but I didn't buy it.

I went for a job interview and was successful, but I decided not to accept.

Last year I test drove an Audi A5 Sportsback, but I'm still driving my beamer.

More recently, I went to look at clothes the other day, and I came away empty handed.

Funny old world, innit? :wink:

[Captain Trips]

This is true.

Did we make him an offer? :dunno:

Funnily enough, I went to see a holiday home once but I didn't buy it.

I went for a job interview and was successful, but I decided not to accept.

Last year I test drove an Audi A5 Sportsback, but I'm still driving my beamer.

More recently, I went to look at clothes the other day, and I came away empty handed.

Funny old world, innit? :wink:

And? You are not the person visiting Hibs to sign so the things we have or havent done are irrelevant he is not you or me. Everyone in life does the same as you in those situations and sometimes doesnt. I am fully aware there are lots of factors in a player joining I happen to think it will be money/contract related no big deal really and a perfectably as acceptable a reason as any other.

[marinello59]

This is true.

Did we make him an offer? :dunno:

Funnily enough, I went to see a holiday home once but I didn't buy it.

I went for a job interview and was successful, but I decided not to accept.

Last year I test drove an Audi A5 Sportsback, but I'm still driving my beamer.

More recently, I went to look at clothes the other day, and I came away empty handed.

Funny old world, innit? :wink:

Early onset of Alzheimers?

[At The Edge]

This was on Pie and Bovril, the poster doesn't give a source but put up the text, here it is..... the bold type is the posters own



“I went to speak to Hibs because I thought they deserved the respect of me going there to at least listen to what they had to say,” Jim explained.

“I went and spoke with their manager Pat Fenlon, who is a real gentleman, and it was an interesting conversation but my decision to stay with St Mirren was based on the relationship I have here with the manager and Tommy Craig, as well as the Chairman and directors. I enjoy coming to work at St Mirren every day where we have great facilities and this is a Club that is very well run.”

He continued, “As flattered as I am by the interest from Hibs and other teams, I think I owed St Mirren my loyalty and I’m delighted to have signed for another two years.”

He said, “The fans here have been brilliant. I think they are a fair bunch of fans and they realise what we are trying to do here.

“In my time at the Club the fans have been really supportive and even though results in recent weeks haven’t been what we would have liked, they have still stuck with us by getting behind the team.

“We have a great set of supporters here at St Mirren which was also a huge factor behind my decision to stay here as well.”

[silverhibee]

I think that it wouldnt have mattered what we offered him, I think Birminghams offer would have been better. Where Calderwood is or was or wanted to be wouldn't have changed that.


At the time we were after Rooney i think there was only a Russian team showing any interest, Calderwood wanted him at Hibs, he was shown around our training centre, i believe Hibs invited him down two times to look around things, i think Scoopyboy knows more about this one than me but Birmingham came to things at a later date.

[greenlex]

This was on Pie and Bovril, the poster doesn't give a source but put up the text, here it is..... the bold type is the posters own



“I went to speak to Hibs because I thought they deserved the respect of me going there to at least listen to what they had to say,” Jim explained.

“I went and spoke with their manager Pat Fenlon, who is a real gentleman, and it was an interesting conversation but my decision to stay with St Mirren was based on the relationship I have here with the manager and Tommy Craig, as well as the Chairman and directors. I enjoy coming to work at St Mirren every day where we have great facilities and this is a Club that is very well run.”

He continued, “As flattered as I am by the interest from Hibs and other teams, I think I owed St Mirren my loyalty and I’m delighted to have signed for another two years.”

He said, “The fans here have been brilliant. I think they are a fair bunch of fans and they realise what we are trying to do here.

“In my time at the Club the fans have been really supportive and even though results in recent weeks haven’t been what we would have liked, they have still stuck with us by getting behind the team.

“We have a great set of supporters here at St Mirren which was also a huge factor behind my decision to stay here as well.”
Cannae be the fans that influenced him not to sign for Hibs. It was the board. Right?

[marinello59]

Cannae be the fans that influenced him not to sign for Hibs. It was the board. Right?

I had a text from someone saying that Petrie called him a **** and emptied a glass of wine over his head.

[c31]

It shows how far we have fallen when a player chooses St. Mirren over Hibs, we're signing 'on loan' players no one has ever heard off, we have a player in court, player suspended for gesturing to his own fans, we might have a nice shinny stadium and a nice training centre but we are total and utter mess of a football club.

The board whilst getting their £88k/year have dragged us so far down that a journeyman football player knocks us back, so now as a club we are viewed as a joke.

Whilst we have a manager who seems to have a bit of a clue he won’t succeed without a lot of financial backing, and that doesn’t seem to be forthcoming.

It’s a scary path we are on……

[Hibbyradge]

Early onset of Alzheimers?

Early onset of beer belly! :wink:

[greenlex]

Early onset of beer belly! :wink:
Early? :confused:

[bingo70]

This was on Pie and Bovril, the poster doesn't give a source but put up the text, here it is..... the bold type is the posters own



“I went to speak to Hibs because I thought they deserved the respect of me going there to at least listen to what they had to say,” Jim explained.

“I went and spoke with their manager Pat Fenlon, who is a real gentleman, and it was an interesting conversation but my decision to stay with St Mirren was based on the relationship I have here with the manager and Tommy Craig, as well as the Chairman and directors. I enjoy coming to work at St Mirren every day where we have great facilities and this is a Club that is very well run.”

He continued, “As flattered as I am by the interest from Hibs and other teams, I think I owed St Mirren my loyalty and I’m delighted to have signed for another two years.”

He said, “The fans here have been brilliant. I think they are a fair bunch of fans and they realise what we are trying to do here.

“In my time at the Club the fans have been really supportive and even though results in recent weeks haven’t been what we would have liked, they have still stuck with us by getting behind the team.

“We have a great set of supporters here at St Mirren which was also a huge factor behind my decision to stay here as well.”

I can understand that and i admire his loyalty, i just don't understand why we had to wait until the 26th Jan to find this out?


Cannae be the fans that influenced him not to sign for Hibs. It was the board. Right?

I blame Griffiths for making a meal out of a wee bit criticism he couldn't handle.

Hibs fans are no worse than any other fans of a club that are seriously underachieving, in fact looking at our away support i'd say our fans were pretty good so no chance it was our fans, plus st mirren have in general been over achieving this season and are looking pretty safe from relegation so i'm not surprised they've been right behind their team this year

[down the slope]

Goodwin gave his reason here http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/football/16743201.stm
a club with great ambition !,

[silverhibee]

Shock, horror ................ experienced, reliable defender opts for a nondescript, provincial, minnow football club in favour of a massive ( in the words of incoming, inexperienced, unknown quantity youngsters) sleeping giant of a club, with a relatively clean financial bill of health, a fine stadium and arguably the finest training facilities in the country. Hey, maybe we're not all we're cracked up to be. :rolleyes:


I would say Europe.

After seeing a few training centres down South, EPL/Championship over the last month, EM is up there with the best.

[Hibbyradge]

Early? :confused:

Yeah, mate. It started when I was 16.

That frickin early! :greengrin

[Twa Cairpets]

:agree: a serious indictment on the board IMO - Goodwin was clearly a target for a longer term deal - Fenlon attempting to build a strong spine to the team - and yet again we have lost out to a club who, if we are to believe what we are told, we are streets ahead of in terms of finance and infrastructure. this is a pathetic showing from those responsible for player negotiations. If as seems to be the case, Goodwin was a key target in Fenlon's plans, there should have been no room for doubt - he should have been a Hibs player NOW.

If this is the way we can expect the club to "progress" then I am very worried indeed - I cannot see any way out of the negative spiral that we find ourselves in if the board are not prepared to back the manager by bringing realistic signing priorities to the club. If this is the way forward then I CANNOT see fans returning to ER in droves - I CAN see crowds, revenue and hence quality on the park continuing to dwindle and relegation becoming an ever more regular threat as the seasons go by (if indeed we avoid it this time around).

The board have clearly set their stall out to be a LESSER club than St Mirren - this is not acceptable IMO - if that's their attitude then they should GTF sooner rather than later.

In a thread full of hysteria, blindingly stupid postings and a bagful of extended post hoc ergo propter hoc (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Post_hoc_ergo_propter_hoc) logical fallacies, this last wee bit here takes the biscuit. It really, really does.

Read it back, and then ponder on the notion behind the statement.

Do you genuinely believe that the board of HFC have purposefully and deliberately decided "I know, what we'll do here is make us into a business that is the same size as a competitor which to all intents and purposes is half the size". Really? For what earthly reason do you think this could ever be the case? You can criticise with some justification some of their decisions, but to base it on a belief that they are deliberately setting out to make the club smaller is, frankly, preposterous and laughable.

[SMAXXA]

Goodwin gave his reason here http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/football/16743201.stm
a club with great ambition !,

Fair enough and good to see some loyalty in the game even tho its at our misfortune.

I do question his ambition tho, no matter what anyone says Hibs would have been a step up, current league position aside IMO.

We move on and forget it.

[Hibbyradge]

And? You are not the person visiting Hibs to sign so the things we have or havent done are irrelevant he is not you or me. Everyone in life does the same as you in those situations and sometimes doesnt. I am fully aware there are lots of factors in a player joining I happen to think it will be money/contract related no big deal really and a perfectably as acceptable a reason as any other.

It reads to me like Hibs made a very good offer, but it was rejected for non-financial reasons.

Regarding the quoted text in bold, do you think Goodwin is lying?

“I went to speak to Hibs because I thought they deserved the respect of me going there to at least listen to what they had to say,” Jim explained.

“I went and spoke with their manager Pat Fenlon, who is a real gentleman, and it was an interesting conversation but my decision to stay with St Mirren was based on the relationship I have here with the manager and Tommy Craig, as well as the Chairman and directors. I enjoy coming to work at St Mirren every day where we have great facilities and this is a Club that is very well run.”

He continued, “As flattered as I am by the interest from Hibs and other teams, I think I owed St Mirren my loyalty and I’m delighted to have signed for another two years.”

He said, “The fans here have been brilliant. I think they are a fair bunch of fans and they realise what we are trying to do here.

“In my time at the Club the fans have been really supportive and even though results in recent weeks haven’t been what we would have liked, they have still stuck with us by getting behind the team.

“We have a great set of supporters here at St Mirren which was also a huge factor behind my decision to stay here as well.

[SMAXXA]

In a thread full of hysteria, blindingly stupid postings and a bagful of extended post hoc ergo propter hoc (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Post_hoc_ergo_propter_hoc) logical fallacies, this last wee bit here takes the biscuit. It really, really does.

Read it back, and then ponder on the notion behind the statement.

Do you genuinely believe that the board of HFC have purposefully and deliberately decided "I know, what we'll do here is make us into a business that is the same size as a competitor which to all intents and purposes is half the size". Really? For what earthly reason do you think this could ever be the case? You can criticise with some justification some of their decisions, but to base it on a belief that they are deliberately setting out to make the club smaller is, frankly, preposterous and laughable.

I agree 100% :thumbsup:

[Hibbyradge]

In a thread full of hysteria, blindingly stupid postings and a bagful of extended post hoc ergo propter hoc (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Post_hoc_ergo_propter_hoc) logical fallacies, this last wee bit here takes the biscuit. It really, really does.

Read it back, and then ponder on the notion behind the statement.

Do you genuinely believe that the board of HFC have purposefully and deliberately decided "I know, what we'll do here is make us into a business that is the same size as a competitor which to all intents and purposes is half the size". Really? For what earthly reason do you think this could ever be the case? You can criticise with some justification some of their decisions, but to base it on a belief that they are deliberately setting out to make the club smaller is, frankly, preposterous and laughable.

Splendid post.

I'm very impressed with your hocs too. :wink:

[Captain Trips]

It reads to me like Hibs made a very good offer, but it was rejected for non-financial reasons.

Regarding the quoted text in bold, do you think Goodwin is lying?

“I went to speak to Hibs because I thought they deserved the respect of me going there to at least listen to what they had to say,” Jim explained.

“I went and spoke with their manager Pat Fenlon, who is a real gentleman, and it was an interesting conversation but my decision to stay with St Mirren was based on the relationship I have here with the manager and Tommy Craig, as well as the Chairman and directors. I enjoy coming to work at St Mirren every day where we have great facilities and this is a Club that is very well run.”

He continued, “As flattered as I am by the interest from Hibs and other teams, I think I owed St Mirren my loyalty and I’m delighted to have signed for another two years.”

He said, “The fans here have been brilliant. I think they are a fair bunch of fans and they realise what we are trying to do here.

“In my time at the Club the fans have been really supportive and even though results in recent weeks haven’t been what we would have liked, they have still stuck with us by getting behind the team.

“We have a great set of supporters here at St Mirren which was also a huge factor behind my decision to stay here as well.

Well if he was orepared to leave then maybe he is saying some of that as things didnt work out, I am sure it is genuine but would have been nothing if he decided to go, so I think is said out of respect when perhaps would have moved if things right. I do not believe he refused to sign for us due to bits in bold as they were the same before he spoke to us.

[greenlex]

Well if he was orepared to leave then maybe he is saying some of that as things didnt work out, I am sure it is genuine but would have been nothing if he decided to go, so I think is said out of respect when perhaps would have moved if things right. I do not believe he refused to sign for us due to bits in bold as they were the same before he spoke to us.



“I went to speak to Hibs because I thought they deserved the respect of me going there to at least listen to what they had to say,” Jim explained.

Did you just ignore this bit or not take it in?

[Saorsa]

Personally I'm no that bothered about no getting this Goodwin but PF obviously rates him higher than I do if he was indeed one of his priority targets. What ****in' annoys me is the manager of this club missing out on his priority targets again and that we cannae make a suitable offer tae attract a player away fae St. Mirren. St. Mirren, FFS!

[Captain Trips]

“I went to speak to Hibs because I thought they deserved the respect of me going there to at least listen to what they had to say,” Jim explained.

Did you just ignore this bit or not take it in?


I took it in, I happen to think that he is saying those things rather than say I would have left but they didnt offer me enough, I think what he says sounds better and maybe true but there is an element that Hibs failed in someway to secure him not mentioned. I have said I would likely have said same as him as well.

You believe everything a player says 100% of time?

[Sammy7nil]

No one knows the real reason why he did not sign other than Goodwin and his agent.

Hibs may have offered more money but not significantly more that would to compensate for the upheaval of his family or the extra travel and leaving a job he enjoys.

I am not really concerned he did not sign as he is not a player you would break or even stretch your bank too far to sign.

The only issue for me is that from the outside how people now perceive the club.

It appears obvious we are seen as a club on the slide and recovery does not look imminent. It appears we lack stability and ambition to kick on and are now seen as being on a similar footing to all the other SPL clubs outwith the Old Firm and Dunfermline.

Pat has said how difficult it is to attract players to Hibs and this only confirms our current lowly standing in Scottish football compared to fans ambition to be the "3rd force".

On the brightside we own our training facility and have a great new stand we wont fill any time soon. :rolleyes:

[silverhibee]

No mention of the big bad Hibs Board in this article!

Could it simply be a case that Goodwin is part of a dying breed of footballers who really does have a sense of loyalty and is content with his lot?



http://www.dailyrecord.co.uk/football/spl/2012/01/26/jim-goodwin-turns-down-hibs-offer-and-signs-new-deal-with-st-mirren-86908-23721357/


Loyalty to St Mirren, he only signed for them last season, why did he not show loyalty to Hamilton when they got relagated and stay with them.

Sorry but i aint buying this loyalty nonsense from a journey man.

[son of haggart]

For a player of his age i would have thought length of contract would be an issue - perhaps Hibs were not wiling to offer as long as St Mirren in that respect. All else being even, and factoring the travel or costs of uprooting I would have thought that may be significant

[Golden Bear]

I took it in, I happen to think that he is saying those things rather than say I would have left but they didnt offer me enough, I think what he says sounds better and maybe true but there is an element that Hibs failed in someway to secure him not mentioned. I have said I would likely have said same as him as well.

He clearly stated the reasons behind his decision to stay with St Mirren and there are no hidden innuendos unless of course you are determined to find something which just isn't there.

[ScottB]

Perhaps worth stopping to consider this for a moment. I see a lot of posts complaining about us losing targets to 'lesser' teams, but are they?

Take St Mirren and St Johnstone as examples, both playing nice stuff, stable clubs, stable squads, attracting interest from bigger clubs etc. Generally seem like pretty nice clubs to go play for.

Or you could go to Hibs, a club with a managerial merrygoround, where the last guys players are emptied or dropped, in a relegation battle with a squad that is booed and abused by sections of its own support more than by away fans.


Who among us, if we are in the position of a Goodwin or whoever, would genuinely pick Hibs just now? (taking emotion out the equation) Even if they were offering more money, I'd be thinking long and hard; 'Will they go down? How long will the manager last? Will I end up paid off and clubless in the summer?' etc etc etc.

To think players should want to come to us purely because we are 'bigger' is a nonsense. At this stage, we are simply not an attractive place to go, and short of throwing much bigger wages at guys to make up for that it's going to be difficult to make permanent signings.

Loans in to keep us up, in the summer hopefully we can rebuild properly looking a more stable option. It's going to be a long hard road back, and the solution isn't as simple as demanding Rod to prise open the biscuit tin some more.

[PaulSmith]

For a player of his age i would have thought length of contract would be an issue - perhaps Hibs were not wiling to offer as long as St Mirren in that respect. All else being even, and factoring the travel or costs of uprooting I would have thought that may be significant

I doubt Hibs were just offering a 12 month deal.

[silverhibee]

Hibs asked to speak with him and he said that out of respect he met Fenlon and had an interesting conversation.

I've done that before and also decided to stay where I am.

Does he strike you as the type that says things just to look good?

I think everyone here comes out with a bit of credit for doing things the right way and in the a man has decided to do the best thing for himself in terms of his overall happiness.

People in all sorts of jobs can make a wee bit more cash by moving and uprooting the family and your life. Quite often though the fact you are quite happy where you are at that point is the major factor in saying no.


I doubt he would have to uproot his family or anything like that Andy, its Paisley or surrounding area he stays in not the other side of the world, maybe have to get up a half hour earlier than he does to get to EM, you will know that there are players who stay in the west but have no problem getting to there training centres in other part of Scotland, Scott Brown doesn't have any problem travelling back and forward each day.

[Captain Trips]

Loyalty to St Mirren, he only signed for them last season, why did he not show loyalty to Hamilton when they got relagated and stay with them.

Sorry but i aint buying this loyalty nonsense from a journey man.

Indeed

I think he does believe the things he said, but maybe more so St Mirren offered him a good package which for me goes before his reasons quoted. He would have left St Mirren had the situation at Hibs been right for him. I am not saying he is lying I am saying for me I think there are stronger reasons he stayed with St Mirren and I think those would not sound as appealing to the St Mirren fans as what he said, and as I have said I would have probably said the same things.

I am quite sure a lot of players we have signed in past came due to us offering more money but I bet they stated it was a fresh challenge etc or other stuff which yes is a part of it but maybe lesser so. Why would a player say I came cause was offered more wages they will say what sounds best and thats what I would do to, saying you made a choice due to money isnt exactly what fans like to hear, I am sure some have said that though.

[Golden Bear]

Loyalty to St Mirren, he only signed for them last season, why did he not show loyalty to Hamilton when they got relagated and stay with them.

Sorry but i aint buying this loyalty nonsense from a journey man.

Surely you can build up loyalty starting from year one?

He's happy where he is and content with his new contract ----------- it does happen!

[Captain Trips]

He clearly stated the reasons behind his decision to stay with St Mirren and there are no hidden innuendos unless of course you are determined to find something which just isn't there.

Players say lots of things not saying there is any innuendo, I happen to think there was more to it. You believe everything a footballer says 100% of time?

[marinello59]

Players say lots of things not saying there is any innuendo, I happen to think there was more to it. You believe everything a footballer says 100% of time?

Do you always believe the scenario that will paint Hibs in the worst light all the time?

[Saorsa]

Loyalty to St Mirren, he only signed for them last season, why did he not show loyalty to Hamilton when they got relagated and stay with them.

Sorry but i aint buying this loyalty nonsense from a journey man.I agree, it's easy for him tae say those things after he'd turned us down and signed a new deal with them. If the deal had been anywhere near decent enough he would have moved.

[Andy74]

Do you always believe the scenario that will paint Hibs in the worst light all the time?

I think you know the answer to that one :wink:

[Golden Bear]

Players say lots of things not saying there is any innuendo, I happen to think there was more to it. You believe everything a footballer says 100% of time?

Goodwin will be in a better position to know the facts than anyone else so in this case I'm more than happy to go with his version of events.

[PaulSmith]

Loyalty to St Mirren, he only signed for them last season, why did he not show loyalty to Hamilton when they got relagated and stay with them.

Sorry but i aint buying this loyalty nonsense from a journey man.

Yip, what else is he supposed to say to get the St Mirren fans back on his side "I would've went to Hibs but they couldn't make it worthwhile for me to move 30 miles east and therefore I'll stick with it here" wouldn't have gone down very well.

If Celtic had offered him a deal would he have played the same loyalty card or if he had a good offer from England he would've been off like a flash.

Absolute nonsense to suggest anything other than what Hibs were prepared to offer wasn't enough to convince him to come through here.

[Captain Trips]

Do you always believe the scenario that will paint Hibs in the worst light all the time?

Put simply, no. I believe in a scenario regardless of what light it paints Hibs sometimes good or bad. You used term always, during the Thompson Brown stuff I was 100% behind all the club did at that time, the only thing putting Hibs in bad light were the players whom I have and still do criticise for that. I express my views regardless sometimes in favour or against and unfortunatly the last 2 years I havent seen to much to have Hibs in good light.

[Captain Trips]

Goodwin will be in a better position to know the facts than anyone else so in this case I'm more than happy to go with his version of events.

As does every player who says stuff they will be in better position to know facts also, so I assume you believe what every footballer says then as they will know better at all times?

[SteveHFC]

Same **** different day.

there'll be 3,500 ST holders or less at ER next season watching Div 1 football.

Sorted that for you :wink:

[Hibbyradge]

Personally I'm no that bothered about no getting this Goodwin but PF obviously rates him higher than I do if he was indeed one of his priority targets. What ****in' annoys me is the manager of this club missing out on his priority targets again and that we cannae make a suitable offer tae attract a player away fae St. Mirren. St. Mirren, FFS!

I agree with you, I don't think it's that big a deal.

However, I really don't get all the angst that he didn't sign for us. He has explained that he is very happy at St Mirren. That's fair enough.

Surprisingly, for a lot of people, money actually isn't the be all and end all. Loads of people in other occupations reject moves for any variety of reasons.

In the football world, I remember Alan Shearer refused to join Manchester United when he was at Blackburn. I can't imagine that was for financial reasons. In fact, didn't they miss out on a player more recently too?

Henrik Larsson received a number of lucrative transfer offers from England and abroad, but he stayed loyal to Celtic till his contract ended.

I'm sure there are many other examples.

[Andy74]

I agree with you, I don't think it's that big a deal.

However, I really don't get all the angst that he didn't sign for us. He has explained that he is very happy at St Mirren. That's fair enough.

Surprisingly, for a lot of people, money actually isn't the be all and end all. Loads of people in other occupations reject moves for any variety of reasons.

In the football world, I remember Alan Shearer refused to join Manchester United when he was at Blackburn. I can't imagine that was for financial reasons. In fact, didn't they miss out on a player more recently too?

Henrik Larsson received a number of lucrative transfer offers from England and abroad, but he stayed loyal to Celtic till his contract ended.

I'm sure there are many other examples.

Let's not forget he might also get the chance to play with Alan O'Brien. That's not something you can let slip by you at his age.

[JimBHibees]

Loyalty to St Mirren, he only signed for them last season, why did he not show loyalty to Hamilton when they got relagated and stay with them.

Sorry but i aint buying this loyalty nonsense from a journey man.

Hear what you are saying however he is captain there and maybe he is enjoying the best season of his career in a team playing decent football and didnt want to leave that especially now he is on a longer deal on better terms.

[Captain Trips]

Let's not forget he might also get the chance to play with Alan O'Brien. That's not something you can let slip by you at his age.

Mystery solved then how could he not stay for that.

[Andy74]

Yip, what else is he supposed to say to get the St Mirren fans back on his side "I would've went to Hibs but they couldn't make it worthwhile for me to move 30 miles east and therefore I'll stick with it here" wouldn't have gone down very well.

If Celtic had offered him a deal would he have played the same loyalty card or if he had a good offer from England he would've been off like a flash.

Absolute nonsense to suggest anything other than what Hibs were prepared to offer wasn't enough to convince him to come through here.

Might that indicate that he wasn't top of the list and we'd only go so far?

He's been built up on here the last week or so but are we suggesting Hibs should have paid over the odds for a guy who has had his career in the English lower leagues, Hamilton and a year at St Mirren. And he appears to have been decent for about a couple of years of that career.

We undoubtedly wanted to talk to him but I think rightly we wouldn't have paid the daft money it may have taken for Goodwin to have changed his mind on being very happy and settled where he is.

[Hibbyradge]

Yip, what else is he supposed to say to get the St Mirren fans back on his side "I would've went to Hibs but they couldn't make it worthwhile for me to move 30 miles east and therefore I'll stick with it here" wouldn't have gone down very well.

If Celtic had offered him a deal would he have played the same loyalty card or if he had a good offer from England he would've been off like a flash.

Absolute nonsense to suggest anything other than what Hibs were prepared to offer wasn't enough to convince him to come through here.

He could have said, "St Mirren made me a great offer which I was delighted to accept".

But he didn't.

He said he stayed because of loyalty, but rather than credit him with such an honourable personality trait, you'd rather imply that he's actually a liar and beat your own club over the head for it.

As you've pointed out, nothing will change your mind and I won't even try, but I prefer to accept that he's a loyal guy and be content in the knowledge that our club tried their best.

[PaulSmith]

Might that indicate that he wasn't top of the list and we'd only go so far?

He's been built up on here the last week or so but are we suggesting Hibs should have paid over the odds for a guy who has had his career in the English lower leagues, Hamilton and a year at St Mirren. And he appears to have been decent for about a couple of years of that career.

We undoubtedly wanted to talk to him but I think rightly we wouldn't have paid the daft money it may have taken for Goodwin to have changed his mind on being very happy and settled where he is.

Andy, even if he was top of the list of all lists I have my reservations if we'd have gone far enough to get him. I'd actually respect Hibs more if what you say is factually correct but we do find ourselves right in the mire, neck deep at the moment and if PF thought Goodwin was the man to get us out of it then he should be backed to the hilt and then some.

I genuinely hope that we pull something out of the hat, I really do (as does everyone).

[PaulSmith]

He could have said, "St Mirren made me a great offer which I was delighted to accept".

But he didn't.

He said he stayed because of loyalty, but rather than credit him with such an honourable personality trait, you'd rather imply that he's actually a liar and beat your own club over the head for it.

As you've pointed out, nothing will change your mind and I won't even try, but I prefer to accept that he's a loyal guy and be content in the knowledge that our club tried their best.

OK, fair enough if you want to believe in the sweetness and light of footballers, agents and clubs then who am I to say anything different. I'm not going to get annoyed at anyone choosing to believe that the Board can do no wrong and that the strategy that they have for the football side of the business isn't flawed.

[mcfly]

Why are comments still being made re Jim Goodwin? He isn't signing for us so forget him and let's move on

[Andy74]

Andy, even if he was top of the list of all lists I have my reservations if we'd have gone far enough to get him. I'd actually respect Hibs more if what you say is factually correct but we do find ourselves right in the mire, neck deep at the moment and if PF thought Goodwin was the man to get us out of it then he should be backed to the hilt and then some.

I genuinely hope that we pull something out of the hat, I really do (as does everyone).

What I'm saying is that we don't really know but I trust PF to prioritise correctly and for the club to go as far as we can within limits of what PF feels the player is worth to him.

If Goodwin came to PF and said that sounds great but to be honest Im really happy and settled where I am, my family love where we stay and I really don't want to drive to East Lothian every day, but if you really make it worth my while I will consider it I think its very likely PF would have said okay but I can only pay you what we think you are worth and that's that so I'll move on to other targets that I have in mind.

Goodwin says thanks, nice talking and i'm happy to stay put.

That's quite a believable scenario.

A little more believable than being incapable of matching financially an offer from a team with half our income. At the same time as we are signing people from EPL teams on loan and still talking about people of the quality and experience of Tonge as the type of players we are looking to.

[Hibbyradge]

Might that indicate that he wasn't top of the list and we'd only go so far?

He's been built up on here the last week or so but are we suggesting Hibs should have paid over the odds for a guy who has had his career in the English lower leagues, Hamilton and a year at St Mirren. And he appears to have been decent for about a couple of years of that career.

We undoubtedly wanted to talk to him but I think rightly we wouldn't have paid the daft money it may have taken for Goodwin to have changed his mind on being very happy and settled where he is.

Good points.

For the sake of discussion, let's assume he was earning £1000 a week at St Mirren. :wink: He likes being there. He's club captain and he's a fans favourite.

He's friendly with the manager and the chairman and he lives close to his place of work.

He's 30 years old but only commanding £1000 a week. I guess if he was worth a lot more, he'd be getting it from someone.

However, he meets Pat Fenlon (no mention of RP, I notice) who offers him a whopping 25% increase on his annual salary. Are there many of us on here who have had a 25% pay rise recently?

However, he says if he's going to move, he wants a 50% rise. What should we do. If we give him it, we won't have much left for the next player we're trying to tempt.

What if he wants a 100% rise?

Ah, speculation. It's fun.

[Andy74]

OK, fair enough if you want to believe in the sweetness and light of footballers, agents and clubs then who am I to say anything different. I'm not going to get annoyed at anyone choosing to believe that the Board can do no wrong and that the strategy that they have for the football side of the business isn't flawed.

You sort of spoil it with that which gives away your agenda a bit. That's not really what people are saying, is it?

[PaulSmith]

You sort of spoil it with that which gives away your agenda a bit. That's not really what people are saying, is it?

Andy, you can stick this 'Agenda' nonsense right away. I have none, however a blind man can see that the 'footballing dept' at ER has failed miserably over the last 5 years and as this is a forum to raise points/comments/concerns about the football club amongst fellow Hibs fans then I'll say my piece.

To use the word like 'agenda' gives it a sinister meaning and almost a driven viewpoint that no matter what I'll keep going down that road. That's absolute bollocks and I'm sure that you know it.

[Hibbyradge]

OK, fair enough if you want to believe in the sweetness and light of footballers, agents and clubs then who am I to say anything different. I'm not going to get annoyed at anyone choosing to believe that the Board can do no wrong and that the strategy that they have for the football side of the business isn't flawed.

Paul, Goodwin is worth a certain salary, but he can't write his own cheque.

If he wanted more than we were prepared to offer him, why blame Hibs for that?

If you want to disbelieve the player's loyalty explanation, then blame his, and his agent's greed.

There has been no mention of a failure to agree terms as there so often is when moves collapse, so why invent it?

If Hibs offered him terms, and we don't even know that they did, there has to be a line over which we don't cross.

That isn't a flawed strategy. It's a sound negotiation principle.

[down the slope]

Good points.

For the sake of discussion, let's assume he was earning £1000 a week at St Mirren. :wink: He likes being there. He's club captain and he's a fans favourite.

He's friendly with the manager and the chairman and he lives close to his place of work.

He's 30 years old but only commanding £1000 a week. I guess if he was worth a lot more, he'd be getting it from someone.

However, he meets Pat Fenlon (no mention of RP, I notice) who offers him a whopping 25% increase on his annual salary. Are there many of us on here who have had a 25% pay rise recently?

However, he says if he's going to move, he wants a 50% rise. What should we do. If we give him it, we won't have much left for the next player we're trying to tempt.

What if he wants a 100% rise?

Ah, speculation. It's fun.


How do you know he was offered a rise ?.

[Hibbyradge]

How do you know he was offered a rise ?.

Did you understand my final sentence?

[Captain Trips]

Bottom line Hibs are generaly very quiet about doing business how often do we sign a player out of nowhere nobody really knew we were looking at? I think it has happened a lot.

No matter how you want to spin this Hibs must have wanted him a lot for whatever reason we got the player to come to Hibs and then he choose not to join, no matter what for me this is a concern it isnt good and I cannot see it spun as good PF was unable to secure a player he wanted and that must have had at least some feelings on joining to even bother coming out. Not a good afternoon in our bid to stay up IMO. This guy would not have been for a short term loan either PF will have seen him for us next season as part of the rebuild.

[Hibbyradge]

Bottom line Hibs are generaly very quiet about doing business how often do we sign a player out of nowhere nobofy really knew we were looking at? I think it has happened a lot.

No matter how you want to spin this Hibs must have wanted him a lot for whatever reason we got the player to come to Hibs and then he choose not to join, no matter what for me this is a concern it isnt good and I cannot see it spun as good PF was unable to secure a player he wanted and that must have had at least some feelings on joing to even bother. Not a good afternoon in our bid to stay up IMO.

Danny Lennon leaked it to the press in an effort to keep his player.

I don't see anyone seriously saying it's good we didn't sign him, but there is always the possibility that in conversation, he didn't impress PF enough to be made an offer.

Maybe, maybe, maybe, maybe.

Sack the board.

[down the slope]

Did you understand my final sentence?

It might be fun for you but i and many other supporters on here are truly worried that we cannot afford a player from St Mirren, whichever way you dress it up we never offered him enough dosh to move to us, bad days indeed for our team that was once the best in Europe and now players would rather go to Perth or Paisley rather than ER !.

[HibbyAndy]

Loyalty my erse. If hibs offered him enough £££ he would be off like a shot.


Thats MY take on it and MY opinion so no smart ersed comments please..Everyone is entitled to there opinion.

[Bostonhibby]

Danny Lennon leaked it to the press in an effort to keep his player.

I don't see anyone seriously saying it's good we didn't sign him, but there is always the possibility that in conversation, he didn't impress PF enough to be made an offer.

Maybe, maybe, maybe, maybe.

Sack the board.

I wasnae that fussed if we got him or not, I'd be more concerned if there wasn't another target who could do a similar job and the gap we are trying to fill continues.

[Captain Trips]

Loyalty my erse. If hibs offered him enough £££ he would be off like a shot.


Thats MY take on it and MY opinion so no smart ersed comments please..Everyone is entitled to there opinion.

I will go with that to be more or less the case.

[CropleyWasGod]

It might be fun for you but i and many other supporters on here are truly worried that we cannot afford a player from St Mirren, whichever way you dress it up we never offered him enough dosh to move to us, bad days indeed for our team that was once the best in Europe and now players would rather go to Perth or Paisley rather than ER !.

Speculation, or do you have a source?

[edwards]

PS he didnt sign it,s over move on

[Andy74]

Loyalty my erse. If hibs offered him enough £££ he would be off like a shot.


Thats MY take on it and MY opinion so no smart ersed comments please..Everyone is entitled to there opinion.

Of course that's the case but its the amount of ££s that make it worthwile which is the point.

I Hibs had offered him £5k a week he'd be here now bu that's probably not the right value for him though and so there is a line somewhere and that is for the manager to call.

People should try playing the Football Maanger 2012 version. It's far trickier just to pay players whatever just to ge them in and carry on regardless. :greengrin

[Hibbyradge]

It might be fun for you but i and many other supporters on here are truly worried that we cannot afford a player from St Mirren, whichever way you dress it up we never offered him enough dosh to move to us, bad days indeed for our team that was once the best in Europe and now players would rather go to Perth or Paisley rather than ER !.

Do you accept that there is just the possibility that he really didn't want to leave St Mirren as he has stated?

Or that maybe we didn't make him an offer?

Or that maybe he wanted more than he's worth?

What concerns me more is the state of Scottish football generally. The quality of the players the league can attract is steadily decreasing.

I'm not going to lose any sleep over Goodwin renewing his contract in Paisley.

[Captain Trips]

PS he didnt sign it,s over move on

Move on to what? It is a current situation that discussion on a messageboard about Hibs is all about, why would we not discuss us not signing a player on a forum about the club? Anyone can start a thread to assist in the moving on you are looking for at the moment some of us are quite happy to discuss this and other older issues. The great thing about this place is there are loads of threads to post on.

[Hibbyradge]

Loyalty my erse. If hibs offered him enough £££ he would be off like a shot.


Thats MY take on it and MY opinion so no smart ersed comments please..Everyone is entitled to there opinion.

I agree. Every man has his price, although there are exceptions to that rule.

Even so, I certainly don't think we should always pay that price. There has to be a point in any negotiation which we don't cross.

Whether you are buying or selling anything, if you can't walk away because you need the deal so badly or because the other side is the only game in town, then you are at a serious disadvantage.

Being held to ransom by agents and players isn't what I'd advocate for any club, never mind Hibs. (Well, maybe Hearts!)

However, I think we have got alternatives which is why we pushed to have an early decision from Goodwin/St Mirren.

[Hibbyradge]

Move on to what? It is a current situation that discussion on a messageboard about Hibs is all about, why would we not discuss us not signing a player on a forum about the club? Anyone can start a thread to assist in the moving on you are looking for at the moment some of us are quite happy to discuss this and other older issues. The great thing about this place is there are loads of threads to post on.

Drat.

I can't disagree with any of that.

You win! :brickwall

:greengrin

[smurf]

That's so simplistic, it isn't true.

You have no idea why he didn't sign.

Maybe he didn't like Pat Fenlon. Maybe he didn't like Rod Petrie. Maybe he wasn't guaranteed a starting place. Maybe he doean't like the fans he's met. Maybe his wife would spend too much in the designer village. Maybe he didn't like his locker.

Your inability to see past blamimg the board is now verging on the fanatical.

Yeah as Goodwin is the first identified target we have missed out on. Treated in isolation you would have a point. But there's a trend and pattern in the transfer windows.

BTW I'm actually in no doubt the board are working very hard with the manager at getting bodies in. Relegation simply isn't an option and the board knows it.

[Captain Trips]

:greengrin
Drat.

I can't disagree with any of that.

You win! :brickwall

:greengrin

[Alfred E Newman]

Yeah as Goodwin is the first identified target we have missed out on. Treated in isolation you would have a point. But there's a trend and pattern in the transfer windows.

BTW I'm actually in no doubt the board are working very hard with the manager at getting bodies in. Relegation simply isn't an option and the board knows it.

This isn`t the first time signing targets have knocked us back in recent times. Without knowing the facts it is impossible to make judgement but if Fenlon felt that Goodwin was the player that would improve our poor midfield and help keep us up this season , and if he was willing to sign if the terms were right, it is worrying that clubs like St Mirren and St Johnstone can out bid us.

[Dashing Bob S]

Loyalty schmoyalty.

Hibs are deluded enough to think they are still a pull because of stadium and state of the art training centre.

They went cheap on the deal so didn't get Goodwin, as simple as that.

That they didn't also shows how far the club has fallen under Calderclowns disasterous regime. We are now a very messed up club in an awful footballing nation.

It doesn't get more embarassing and there is a lot of work to be done to re-establish ourselves as a team and a club.

[Col2]

Fact is we wanted him, not just as a short term loan signing but a pre contract. We made it clear we wanted him and he was one of our main targets. We made him an offer. All factually correct.

Result is he stayed at St Mirren and made it clear it was about loyalty, the fans and ambition but money must have been a factor.

We were unable to secure a top target from a club half the size of ours financially, fan base etc. this again is factually correct.

We are now 5 days away from window closing and have signed a young striker from the Irish league and two players on loan for next 15 weeks. Again factually correct.

Does this feel like progress? Or are all the top players available in what should be our budget only available in the last 5 days?

[Twa Cairpets]

It might be fun for you but i and many other supporters on here are truly worried that we cannot afford a player from St Mirren, whichever way you dress it up we never offered him enough dosh to move to us, bad days indeed for our team that was once the best in Europe and now players would rather go to Perth or Paisley rather than ER !.

And that would be speculation, wouldnt it?

How much was enough, and extra £1000 a week? £2000? £4000? What? What is the marginal difference in salary required to tempt the player? Maybe he wanted a big signing on fee as well that was deemed outwith his value. I dont know and neither do you, so to say that "we never offered him enough" might be true but it is a fundamentally stupid statement. He would have come presumably for £10k a week, no doubt. Would you have liked us to pay that? No? How much then? What's your magical figure that equates to "enough"

You, and others, seem to conflate the club "not backing the manager" or being uncompetitive against St mirren or st johnstone as an absolute. Its not. We've has some keech through the doors on the playing front from what ultimately turned out to be a pair of foootballing clowns in the managerial seat, but during these times we have been competitive against others, but the decision made on footballing ability has not been succesful.

As for best in Europe, you can hearken back to those good old days all you want but it is utterly, utterly irrelevant to what is happening now. Different world.

[BEEJ]

We are now 5 days away from window closing and have signed a young striker from the Irish league and two players on loan for next 15 weeks. Again factually correct.

Does this feel like progress? Or are all the top players available in what should be our budget only available in the last 5 days?
Before any one else does it - it's three players on loan plus Griffiths existing loan deal extended.

But I take your point.

[basehibby]

In a thread full of hysteria, blindingly stupid postings and a bagful of extended post hoc ergo propter hoc (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Post_hoc_ergo_propter_hoc) logical fallacies, this last wee bit here takes the biscuit. It really, really does.

Read it back, and then ponder on the notion behind the statement.

Do you genuinely believe that the board of HFC have purposefully and deliberately decided "I know, what we'll do here is make us into a business that is the same size as a competitor which to all intents and purposes is half the size". Really? For what earthly reason do you think this could ever be the case? You can criticise with some justification some of their decisions, but to base it on a belief that they are deliberately setting out to make the club smaller is, frankly, preposterous and laughable.

It seems to me that they are happy enough for us to be regularly beat to the signatures of signing targets by clubs we are supposedly much bigger than. In doing so they are allowing these clubs to steal a march on us - allowing them to build better football teams than us and guess what? that means our team will finish below them in the league and we will effectively be a LESSER club (maybe even in a lesser league). Even if the intention is not there it is still what these actions add up to - as evidenced by current league position!

You can call me hysterical all you like - the conduct of the club in subsequent transfer windows and the resulting shambles makes this criticism entirely deserved - if our board want us to be a bigger and more successful club than the likes of St Mirren, Kilmarnock and St Johnstone then I'm waiting for them to prove it by beating them to the tape in the transfer market.

[Newcastlehibby]

This isn`t the first time signing targets have knocked us back in recent times. Without knowing the facts it is impossible to make judgement but if Fenlon felt that Goodwin was the player that would improve our poor midfield and help keep us up this season , and if he was willing to sign if the terms were right, it is worrying that clubs like St Mirren and St Johnstone can out bid us.


That is a big assumption. Why do you think we were outbid by those clubs? Just because he chose to stay does not mean we were outbid. It is quite possible, maybe even likely, that we offered more but that it was not enough to persuade him to move.

[Newcastlehibby]

It might be fun for you but i and many other supporters on here are truly worried that we cannot afford a player from St Mirren, whichever way you dress it up we never offered him enough dosh to move to us, bad days indeed for our team that was once the best in Europe and now players would rather go to Perth or Paisley rather than ER !.

When were we the best club in Europe? I must have missed that season. We were once the best club in Scotland for a couple of seasons.

[andy1875]

Paint this situation anyway you wish but one thing is for sure, this is a right boot I'm the balls for Hibs. Pat clearly wanted the player and hes chosen to stay with St Mirren rather than sign with us.

I know we're no world beaters the now but this is a real eye opener to just have far we've fallen over the years imo.

Sad day when it comes to this.

[Scouse Hibee]

Paint this situation anyway you wish but one thing is for sure, this is a right boot I'm the balls for Hibs. Pat clearly wanted the player and hes chosen to stay with St Mirren rather than sign with us.

I know we're no world beaters the now but this is a real eye opener to just have far we've fallen over the years imo.

Sad day when it comes to this.


Reality that's all it is!

[down the slope]

When were we the best club in Europe? I must have missed that season. We were once the best club in Scotland for a couple of seasons.


Delusions of grandeur there on my part but we were one of the best and only lost the league to a Celtic side that that was arguably the best they ever had, wrong as i was we have descended a helluva way from those days. Now look at us ?, run by penny pinching accountants who have dragged us to the brink of relegation by their incompetence, if they were running any other business they would have been sacked a long ago , time they all went.

[Tyler Durden]

Might that indicate that he wasn't top of the list and we'd only go so far?

He's been built up on here the last week or so but are we suggesting Hibs should have paid over the odds for a guy who has had his career in the English lower leagues, Hamilton and a year at St Mirren. And he appears to have been decent for about a couple of years of that career.

We undoubtedly wanted to talk to him but I think rightly we wouldn't have paid the daft money it may have taken for Goodwin to have changed his mind on being very happy and settled where he is.

Well you referred to him on the other thread as "a fantastic character and leader", so you played your part in that. Funny that now we've failed to sign him he's a journeyman.

Personally I've always thought him to be p*sh. Whilst relieved we've not signed him, we've lost out to St Mirren after talking to the player and most people would speculate that's because we failed to offer him enough money to tempt him to Easter Road. Obviously nobody knows for sure but it's all a sobering episode.

I'm actually excited to see Soares and think he'll slot into centre midfield. While we clearly need reinforcements in all areas, if we were to focus on only 1 more signing, I'd rather it was a full back or center half. I'm surprised there were no LoI defenders within our budget that PF thought would improve us.

[basehibby]

That is a big assumption. Why do you think we were outbid by those clubs? Just because he chose to stay does not mean we were outbid. It is quite possible, maybe even likely, that we offered more but that it was not enough to persuade him to move.


FFS you are talking about the club that expected a certain left back to take a 500 quid a week pay CUT to come to Hibs - the straw that broke the camel's back for John Collins. Why do you and certain others then find it SOOOO hard to believe that players might just be knocking us back because we're not offering them what they feel they're worth???

Of course we have no way of telling the exact reasons behind the collapse of this deal, but it is both patronising and naive to imply that there is no foundation to suspicions that the team is once again being made to suffer excessively in favour of the balance sheet.

[Cropley10]

Do you genuinely believe that the board of HFC have purposefully and deliberately decided "I know, what we'll do here is make us into a business that is the same size as a competitor which to all intents and purposes is half the size". Really? For what earthly reason do you think this could ever be the case? You can criticise with some justification some of their decisions, but to base it on a belief that they are deliberately setting out to make the club smaller is, frankly, preposterous and laughable.

This Message Board never ceases to amaze me with the ability of some to always - and I mean always - give the benefit of the doubt to our Board.

After some disasters there's no doubt they learned to maximise the value of a crop of players you see once in a generation, at a time when there was still money in Scottish Football. In itself not actually very hard to do. We then paid off some debt and put the rest in to bricks and mortar building a decent training centre (it is not, has never been and never will be 'state-of-the-art') and then a stand that has yet to be sold out. In itself easy enough to do as well. Of course the player sales propped up the balance sheet making RP look like some sort of guru.

Now the same people - people who do everything they can to convince me anyway that they've not got the faintest idea about the game, or the faintest hint of ambition for our Club are presiding over the worst ever home record, resulting in more and more people staying away and a squad with almost zero talent. Yet when the going gets tough they simply tell us we're stronger together and to get more people along. Almost contemptible.

And yet once again another top pick from the manager's list alludes us and still some people give yet more, unending almost, benefit of the doubt. A few more loan signings come, for a few months, putting us back in exactly the same position in June and some seem not to care.

This Club hasn't got a clue about the game in the Boardroom and there's not a shred of evidence to prove otherwise.

[MrSmith]

You know what? I'm rather impressed by the loyalty Jim Goodwin has shown to St Mirren! Whether we lost him due to them offering more than us or not? There is very little of loyalty going about these days so from me - well done Jim Goodwin.

Pat in the Evening News tonight stating he's not finished in the transfer market just yet!

[Col2]

This Message Board never ceases to amaze me with the ability of some to always - and I mean always - give the benefit of the doubt to our Board.

After some disasters there's no doubt they learned to maximise the value of a crop of players you see once in a generation, at a time when there was still money in Scottish Football. In itself not actually very hard to do. We then paid off some debt and put the rest in to bricks and mortar building a decent training centre (it is not, has never been and never will be 'state-of-the-art') and then a stand that has yet to be sold out. In itself easy enough to do as well. Of course the player sales propped up the balance sheet making RP look like some sort of guru.

Now the same people - people who do everything they can to convince me anyway that they've not got the faintest idea about the game, or the faintest hint of ambition for our Club are presiding over the worst ever home record, resulting in more and more people staying away and a squad with almost zero talent. Yet when the going gets tough they simply tell us we're stronger together and to get more people along. Almost contemptible.

And yet once again another top pick from the manager's list alludes us and still some people give yet more, unending almost, benefit of the doubt. A few more loan signings come, for a few months, putting us back in exactly the same position in June and some seem not to care.

This Club hasn't got a clue about the game in the Boardroom and there's not a shred of evidence to prove otherwise.

100% spot on.

[down the slope]

This Message Board never ceases to amaze me with the ability of some to always - and I mean always - give the benefit of the doubt to our Board.

After some disasters there's no doubt they learned to maximise the value of a crop of players you see once in a generation, at a time when there was still money in Scottish Football. In itself not actually very hard to do. We then paid off some debt and put the rest in to bricks and mortar building a decent training centre (it is not, has never been and never will be 'state-of-the-art') and then a stand that has yet to be sold out. In itself easy enough to do as well. Of course the player sales propped up the balance sheet making RP look like some sort of guru.

Now the same people - people who do everything they can to convince me anyway that they've not got the faintest idea about the game, or the faintest hint of ambition for our Club are presiding over the worst ever home record, resulting in more and more people staying away and a squad with almost zero talent. Yet when the going gets tough they simply tell us we're stronger together and to get more people along. Almost contemptible.

And yet once again another top pick from the manager's list alludes us and still some people give yet more, unending almost, benefit of the doubt. A few more loan signings come, for a few months, putting us back in exactly the same position in June and some seem not to care.

This Club hasn't got a clue about the game in the Boardroom and there's not a shred of evidence to prove otherwise.

Right on there !, what if Gavin Rae decided to stay at Dundee instead of any offer from us do you think they would still support the board then ?.

[Cropley10]

Right on there !, what if Gavin Rae decided to stay at Dundee instead of any offer from us do you think they would still support the board then ?.

Of course. The same naive and patronising comments, as basehibby put it, would be trotted out, along side revisionist comments about his age and/or ability.

[Captain Trips]

This Message Board never ceases to amaze me with the ability of some to always - and I mean always - give the benefit of the doubt to our Board.

After some disasters there's no doubt they learned to maximise the value of a crop of players you see once in a generation, at a time when there was still money in Scottish Football. In itself not actually very hard to do. We then paid off some debt and put the rest in to bricks and mortar building a decent training centre (it is not, has never been and never will be 'state-of-the-art') and then a stand that has yet to be sold out. In itself easy enough to do as well. Of course the player sales propped up the balance sheet making RP look like some sort of guru.

Now the same people - people who do everything they can to convince me anyway that they've not got the faintest idea about the game, or the faintest hint of ambition for our Club are presiding over the worst ever home record, resulting in more and more people staying away and a squad with almost zero talent. Yet when the going gets tough they simply tell us we're stronger together and to get more people along. Almost contemptible.

And yet once again another top pick from the manager's list alludes us and still some people give yet more, unending almost, benefit of the doubt. A few more loan signings come, for a few months, putting us back in exactly the same position in June and some seem not to care.

This Club hasn't got a clue about the game in the Boardroom and there's not a shred of evidence to prove otherwise.

What worries me is this time last year being here again was on the cards and true enough 1yr on we are maybe even worse off though we may have a better manager. I do not care how good RP has done in past, he made a bad error in appointing CC and then made what is the worst non decision in his time by not sacking him regardless of the cost. He should have sacked CC and then resigned.

To be struggling at bottom of SPL 2 seasons in a row is nothing short of a disgrace this could have been avoided I believe if we changed manager at right time, RP time should be long over and every bad result this season every wage wasted on loans when we should be building is 100% the fault of Hibs board.

[ScottB]

What worries me is this time last year being here again was on the cards and true enough 1yr on we are maybe even worse off though we may have a better manager. I do not care how good RP has done in past, he made a bad error in appointing CC and then made what is the worst non decision in his time by not sacking him regardless of the cost. He should have sacked CC and then resigned.

To be struggling at bottom of SPL 2 seasons in a row is nothing short of a disgrace this could have been avoided I believe if we changed manager at right time, RP time should be long over and every bad result this season every wage wasted on loans when we should be building is 100% the fault of Hibs board.

I would argue we can get better players on loan that we could hope to buy in our current state, frankly I don't really care whether players are here on loan or permanent, as long as they get the job done.

Now, a few things occur to me, firstly, what I take from the Goodwin saga, and PF's statements, players are put off joining us, and who could blame them! The squad is a mess, managers barely lasting a year, the previous incumbents players being dumped out, the fans either staying away or coming a long to boo and hurl abuse etc. Clearly if we can get a better standard of player in on loan than can be convinced to join us right now, then so be it.

Secondly, why is signing players so much better than loans? Now, obviously, should they work out, we'd rather have them permanently, but on the other hand, how many of CC's many permanent signings are still with us? Or the 20 odd huddies Yogi brought to the club? Perhaps it's better that we judge Fenlons eye for a player on temps before he shapes his squad?


Clearly, convincing a player to come to a club in a relegation fight, to work under a manager that he couldn't be blamed for wondering if he'd make it past pre season is a hard sell, regardless of any other factors. If Fenlon chooses loans now and permanents in the summer, then so be it. Would I rather we have a shiny new team of cracking permanent players? Of course, but in the current situation it just isn't going to happen.

[Captain Trips]

I would argue we can get better players on loan that we could hope to buy in our current state, frankly I don't really care whether players are here on loan or permanent, as long as they get the job done.

Now, a few things occur to me, firstly, what I take from the Goodwin saga, and PF's statements, players are put off joining us, and who could blame them! The squad is a mess, managers barely lasting a year, the previous incumbents players being dumped out, the fans either staying away or coming a long to boo and hurl abuse etc. Clearly if we can get a better standard of player in on loan than can be convinced to join us right now, then so be it.

Secondly, why is signing players so much better than loans? Now, obviously, should they work out, we'd rather have them permanently, but on the other hand, how many of CC's many permanent signings are still with us? Or the 20 odd huddies Yogi brought to the club? Perhaps it's better that we judge Fenlons eye for a player on temps before he shapes his squad?


Clearly, convincing a player to come to a club in a relegation fight, to work under a manager that he couldn't be blamed for wondering if he'd make it past pre season is a hard sell, regardless of any other factors. If Fenlon chooses loans now and permanents in the summer, then so be it. Would I rather we have a shiny new team of cracking permanent players? Of course, but in the current situation it just isn't going to happen.

We were getting loans in at seasons start when not bottom, I understand we are up against it and loans are probably what we will get for rest of season, however in normal run of things I do not want to see us moving about so many players each window.

[Twa Cairpets]

It seems to me that they are happy enough for us to be regularly beat to the signatures of signing targets by clubs we are supposedly much bigger than. In doing so they are allowing these clubs to steal a march on us - allowing them to build better football teams than us and guess what? that means our team will finish below them in the league and we will effectively be a LESSER club (maybe even in a lesser league). Even if the intention is not there it is still what these actions add up to - as evidenced by current league position!

You can call me hysterical all you like - the conduct of the club in subsequent transfer windows and the resulting shambles makes this criticism entirely deserved - if our board want us to be a bigger and more successful club than the likes of St Mirren, Kilmarnock and St Johnstone then I'm waiting for them to prove it by beating them to the tape in the transfer market.

You are hysterical.

You claimed that it was a deliberate policy of the board to make us smaller than the likes of St Mirren. i said that was utter tosh, and it is. I also said they can be accuse dof incompetence (which I dont think they are, particualrly, but have been unlucky/misguided in the choice of the last two managers).

There is a thing called "confirmation bias (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Confirmation_bias)" which absolutely describes what you describe as failure to attract players, and its even more relevant to the post below from Cropley10


This Message Board never ceases to amaze me with the ability of some to always - and I mean always - give the benefit of the doubt to our Board.

Frankly it never ceases to amaze me for exactly the opposite. To not cry "doom! doom!" makes you some type of Petire lickspittle while the same speculative tosh is repeated enough to become unequivocal fact.

After some disasters there's no doubt they learned to maximise the value of a crop of players you see once in a generation, at a time when there was still money in Scottish Football. In itself not actually very hard to do. We then paid off some debt and put the rest in to bricks and mortar building a decent training centre (it is not, has never been and never will be 'state-of-the-art') and then a stand that has yet to be sold out. In itself easy enough to do as well. Of course the player sales propped up the balance sheet making RP look like some sort of guru.

So essentially anything that grudglingly was good was easy. Wow.

Now the same people - people who do everything they can to convince me anyway that they've not got the faintest idea about the game, or the faintest hint of ambition for our Club are presiding over the worst ever home record, resulting in more and more people staying away and a squad with almost zero talent. Yet when the going gets tough they simply tell us we're stronger together and to get more people along. Almost contemptible.

So we're stronger fractured and dissenting, booing the team, abusing our own players and joyfully posting every ten minutes about how appalling everythign to do with Hibs is? Ah, I can see that. While it is of course a public marketing stance, it also has the benefit of being true in this case.
And yet once again another top pick from the manager's list alludes us and still some people give yet more, unending almost, benefit of the doubt. A few more loan signings come, for a few months, putting us back in exactly the same position in June and some seem not to care

This Club hasn't got a clue about the game in the Boardroom and there's not a shred of evidence to prove otherwise.
.


Except for signing Stokes, Liam Miller, getting GOC back, getting Riordan back, completely revamping the stadium, etc. I suppose that doesnt count as evidence for you does it. Yeh, there's been duds - lots of them - but point me to a single team in Scotland where there havent been duff players signed. The major failing of the board has been the appointment and extended tenure of Calderwood, which in hindsight was hugely damaging, but after the Hughes area a period of "steady hand on the tiller" would have been appealing. It dodnt work out.

Incidentally, as for this "not a clue about the game", isnt that what the manager is there to do - provide the football knowledge? Or would you prefer that RP chooses who we target and sign.

[Thecat23]

Just to clear this up guys, Saints offer WAS better then what we offered. No idea who much was put to him all i know is that Hibs didn't match what Saints gave him. Sourse is a former Saints player and an agent.

So for those saying Hibs did match etc.. They didn't.

[Baldy Foghorn]

Just to clear this up guys, Saints offer WAS better then what we offered. No idea who much was put to him all i know is that Hibs didn't match what Saints gave him. Sourse is a former Saints player and an agent.

So for those saying Hibs did match etc.. They didn't.

Interesting.....There will be some who will not believe your source

[Saorsa]

Just to clear this up guys, Saints offer WAS better then what we offered. No idea who much was put to him all i know is that Hibs didn't match what Saints gave him. Sourse is a former Saints player and an agent.

So for those saying Hibs did match etc.. They didn't.http://i19.photobucket.com/albums/b168/jamie1971/smilies%202/tachescrooge.gif

[Thecat23]

Interesting.....There will be some who will not believe your source

I know some won't but folk that know me on hear bud know that what i get told is true. I'm good friends with a few footballers and one agent who works mostly down south but has loads of players on his books up here.

[HibbyAndy]

Just to clear this up guys, Saints offer WAS better then what we offered. No idea who much was put to him all i know is that Hibs didn't match what Saints gave him. Sourse is a former Saints player and an agent.

So for those saying Hibs did match etc.. They didn't.



Kinda wondered why Goodwin would knock back Hibs for 'Loyalty' Pish Imo..Thats the size of it....Hibs or St.Mirren??? Its a no brainer and loyalty comes nowhere near it...Goodwin was going who offered the most ( All in my opinion tho radge and Andy )... knocked back us cause St.midden offered more money,,, you will get shot down in flames for this pal as just 'hearsay' 'gossip' blah blah blah...But you have posted reliable facts before, So your theory stands up.

[greenlex]

Just to clear this up guys, Saints offer WAS better then what we offered. No idea who much was put to him all i know is that Hibs didn't match what Saints gave him. Sourse is a former Saints player and an agent.

So for those saying Hibs did match etc.. They didn't.

Since you know Did Saints raise their game on the back of Hibs offer and if they did were Hibs asked to match or better Saints counter offer?

[Thecat23]

Kinda wondered why Goodwin would knock back Hibs for 'Loyalty' Pish Imo..Thats the size of it....Hibs or St.Mirren??? Its a no brainer and loyalty comes nowhere near it...Goodwin was going who offered the most ( All in my opinion tho radge and Andy )... knocked back us cause St.midden offered more money,,, you will get shot down in flames for this pal as just 'hearsay' 'gossip' blah blah blah...But you have posted reliable facts before, So your theory stands up.

I know the ones who will not be happy at me posting this, but end of the day i know it's the truth i have the back up and they guys who told me have no reason to lie at all. Goodwin was very keen to move and PF wanted him. Its a shame we don't seem to have the ambition the fans do. We don't want to over spend but losing out to the saints doesn't make good reading and that's the bottom line. We get double there crowds or roughly that yet we can't match wages of a club that size. One thing i won't do is make this about the board i'm done arguing about that. But PF has one hell of a task getting players now.

Loan deals very rarely work out. Players get settled when a contract is done. I just hope these loans work mate.

[Thecat23]

Since you know Did Saints raise their game on the back of Hibs offer and if they did were Hibs asked to match or better Saints counter offer?

What i was told Lex was Saints had told him of the offer he would get if he stayed on and Goodwin was left to think about it and chat to us and anyone else who was interested. Hibs then offered him a deal that wasn't as good as Saints. He made Hibs aware of this and then Hibs left it a day or two and said it's a take it or leave it deal with us. Nothing about matching Saints deal.

[greenlex]

What i was told Lex was Saints had told him of the offer he would get if he stayed on and Goodwin was left to think about it and chat to us and anyone else who was interested. Hibs then offered him a deal that wasn't as good as Saints. He made Hibs aware of this and then Hibs left it a day or two and said it's a take it or leave it deal with us. Nothing about matching Saints deal.
Ta.

[Baldy Foghorn]

I know the ones who will not be happy at me posting this, but end of the day i know it's the truth i have the back up and they guys who told me have no reason to lie at all. Goodwin was very keen to move and PF wanted him. Its a shame we don't seem to have the ambition the fans do. We don't want to over spend but losing out to the saints doesn't make good reading and that's the bottom like. We get double there crowds or roughly that yet we can't match wages of a club that size. One thing i won't do is make this about the board i'm done arguing about that. But PF has one hell of a task getting players now.

Loan deals very rarely work out. Players get settled when a contract is done. I just hope these loans work mate.


What i was told Lex was Saints had told him of the offer he would get if he stayed on and Goodwin was left to think about it and chat to us and anyone else who was interested. Hibs then offered him a deal that wasn't as good as Saints. He made Hibs aware of this and then Hibs left it a day or two and said it's a take it or leave it deal with us. Nothing about matching Saints deal.

This makes for uncomfortable reading.....Sad that one of PF's target was not given a deal, but we keep hearing that every manager is backed by the Board.....

[down the slope]

You are hysterical.

You claimed that it was a deliberate policy of the board to make us smaller than the likes of St Mirren. i said that was utter tosh, and it is. I also said they can be accuse dof incompetence (which I dont think they are, particualrly, but have been unlucky/misguided in the choice of the last two managers).

There is a thing called "confirmation bias (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Confirmation_bias)" which absolutely describes what you describe as failure to attract players, and its even more relevant to the post below from Cropley10




Except for signing Stokes, Liam Miller, getting GOC back, getting Riordan back, completely revamping the stadium, etc. I suppose that doesnt count as evidence for you does it. Yeh, there's been duds - lots of them - but point me to a single team in Scotland where there havent been duff players signed. The major failing of the board has been the appointment and extended tenure of Calderwood, which in hindsight was hugely damaging, but after the Hughes area a period of "steady hand on the tiller" would have been appealing. It dodnt work out.

Incidentally, as for this "not a clue about the game", isnt that what the manager is there to do - provide the football knowledge? Or would you prefer that RP chooses who we target and sign.

The only evidence i need is staring at me in the form of the league table , that and nowt else matters. When you take into account the position we were in five years ago to the state we are in now cannot be anything than abject utter failure !, Petrie has taken the plaudits for the building work so he has to take the blame for the state we are in as a football club.

[Captain Trips]

What i was told Lex was Saints had told him of the offer he would get if he stayed on and Goodwin was left to think about it and chat to us and anyone else who was interested. Hibs then offered him a deal that wasn't as good as Saints. He made Hibs aware of this and then Hibs left it a day or two and said it's a take it or leave it deal with us. Nothing about matching Saints deal.

So although he stated that after accepting Saints contract about loyalty and the fans which I am sure is genuine in part what was probably the biggest factor but he didnt mention was the money on offer with both parties?

[Thecat23]

This makes for uncomfortable reading.....Sad that one of PF's target was not given a deal, but we keep hearing that every manager is backed by the Board.....

I know, I'm hoping PF manages to get a couple in before the window shuts. I like him and think he will build us a team that can compete. But we seem to be really struggling just now so no idea if or when players will arrive that aren't just loan deals but players who will sign for us for the future.

[Eyrie]

What i was told Lex was Saints had told him of the offer he would get if he stayed on and Goodwin was left to think about it and chat to us and anyone else who was interested. Hibs then offered him a deal that wasn't as good as Saints. He made Hibs aware of this and then Hibs left it a day or two and said it's a take it or leave it deal with us. Nothing about matching Saints deal.
I think we'd all agree that this means St Mirren valued him more highly than Hibs did.

However it says nothing about who at Hibs determined his value or who at Hibs declined to better St Mirren's offer, but it will still be seized on as evidence that the board are conspiring to relegate Hibs.

[Hibbyradge]

So St Mirren think he's worth more than we do. Good luck to them.

How much did they want for him, by the way?

I wouldn't pay more than what I thought anything was worth either, so well done Hibs.

I wonder if West Ham fans will be having a similar angst fest cos they can't sign Jelavic from an SPL club.

[Thecat23]

So although he stated that after accepting Saints contract about loyalty and the fans which I am sure is genuine in part what was probably the biggest factor but he didnt mention was the money on offer with both parties?

Correct. But if you're a player mate, the last thing you do is say i stayed because the money was better. The fans lap up this loyalty stuff, it's what agents and the PR folk tell them to say. This game is about money plain and simple.

[Gordy M]

I know, I'm hoping PF manages to get a couple in before the window shuts. I like him and think he will build us a team that can compete. But we seem to be really struggling just now so no idea if or when players will arrive that aren't just loan deals but players who will sign for us for the future.

Can you tell me, cos i really dont know how it works, does the manager make the offer to the player? Or does he tell the board, who then 'try' to get the player? And if its the latter does the manager tell the board how much a week the player is worth?

[Captain Trips]

I think we'd all agree that this means St Mirren valued him more highly than Hibs did.

However it says nothing about who at Hibs determined his value or who at Hibs declined to better St Mirren's offer, but it will still be seized on as evidence that the board are conspiring to relegate Hibs.

I do not think anyone thinks they are conspiring they appear well not appear they are incompitent and our failure over last 2 terms is proof of that.

[Baldy Foghorn]

So although he stated that after accepting Saints contract about loyalty and the fans which I am sure is genuine in part what was probably the biggest factor but he didnt mention was the money on offer with both parties?

Why would he want to pee off Saints fans by saying I only signed because the deal was better?:confused:

[Thecat23]

So St Mirren think he's worth more than we do. Good luck to them.

How much did they want for him, by the way?

I wouldn't pay more than what I thought anything was worth either, so well done Hibs.

I wonder if West Ham fans will be having a similar angst fest cos they can't sign Jelavic from an SPL club.

No idea how much money was offered mate. I'd by lying if i said i did. If the board or Hibs don't think he's worth it then fair enough sometimes teams get it right not bringing in a player.

I'm actually a West Ham fan as well bud and i'm not fussed we never got him. Would be a good signing but i don't really care.

[truehibernian]

I know some won't but folk that know me on hear bud know that what i get told is true. I'm good friends with a few footballers and one agent who works mostly down south but has loads of players on his books up here.

Would that be the same agent/lawyer as Arnesen from Aberdeen ?

[Captain Trips]

Why would he want to pee off Saints fans by saying I only signed because the deal was better?:confused:

I was questioned earlier in thread as I suggested he didnt sign for other reasons than he is quoted for in paper, I was told to accept what he said in paper as true and he didnt join us as happy at Saints. I stated I think his quotes are not the full reason and perhaps if true thecat backs up my gut feelings at time.

[Thecat23]

Can you tell me, cos i really dont know how it works, does the manager make the offer to the player? Or does he tell the board, who then 'try' to get the player? And if its the latter does the manager tell the board how much a week the player is worth?

Just depends on the club and board. These days a manager will speak of the player they want, the board may have already told the manager of the budget and then the manager would offer the player and his agent the deal. Or the manager could say i need such and such to the board who will look at it, depending on the players age etc. they may want to sell him on so they will say yes or no on that price. It really depends if i'm honest. Agents do most of the talking though and then if they think a deal may happen then the player meets the manager and he has the final say. Hope this helps.

[Baldy Foghorn]

So St Mirren think he's worth more than we do. Good luck to them.

How much did they want for him, by the way?

I wouldn't pay more than what I thought anything was worth either, so well done Hibs.

I wonder if West Ham fans will be having a similar angst fest cos they can't sign Jelavic from an SPL club.

Sounded like he was one of PF's main targets.....Do you think PF would have said, nah hes not worth £2k a week.....Possible of course, but who knows.....

[Captain Trips]

Correct. But if you're a player mate, the last thing you do is say i stayed because the money was better. The fans lap up this loyalty stuff, it's what agents and the PR folk tell them to say. This game is about money plain and simple.

Oh I know that and stated in thread I would have said the same as him 100% but always felt there was more to it than loyalty or the fans.

[Eyrie]

I do not think anyone thinks they are conspiring they appear well not appear they are incompitent and our failure over last 2 terms is proof of that.
I see the role of the board being to provide strategy and stability for the club whilst ensuring that we have a good manager whose plans they are willing to fund.

They've provided the strategy by investing in the stadium and training facilities (although I'd like more from the academy) whilst keeping us financially stable. Each manager has had his plans backed,

Howver they've struggled the last few times to appoint the right manager which has led to the poor results and performances over the last couple of years. This is the one area I'd consider them to be incompetent.

I also have faith that Fenlon is a good choice.

[Thecat23]

Would that be the same agent/lawyer as Arnesen from Aberdeen ?

No idea i'll find out, He has players at St Johnstone/Dunfermaline, Celtic and Rangers. But not sure about the dons bud.

[Baldy Foghorn]

I was questioned earlier in thread as I suggested he didnt sign for other reasons than he is quoted for in paper, I was told to accept what he said in paper as true and he didnt join us as happy at Saints. I stated I think his quotes are not the full reason and perhaps if true thecat backs up my gut feelings at time.

I had the same gut feelings Carlsberg, but TheCat seems to have confirmed them

[Gordy M]

Just depends on the club and board. These days a manager will speak of the player they want, the board may have already told the manager of the budget and then the manager would offer the player and his agent the deal. Or the manager could say i need such and such to the board who will look at it, depending on the players age etc. they may want to sell him on so they will say yes or no on that price. It really depends if i'm honest. Agents do most of the talking though and then if they think a deal may happen then the player meets the manager and he has the final say. Hope this helps.

Yeh it does mate, thanks for that :aok:. Do you know through your contacts if we have anyone else lined up?

[HibbyAndy]

So St Mirren think he's worth more than we do. Good luck to them.

How much did they want for him, by the way?

I wouldn't pay more than what I thought anything was worth either, so well done Hibs.

I wonder if West Ham fans will be having a similar angst fest cos they can't sign Jelavic from an SPL club.




But this is just hearsay tho yeah?...A comment you have used on numerous occasions when questioning others?


Aye, Works both ways eh?

[Thecat23]

I think we'd all agree that this means St Mirren valued him more highly than Hibs did.

However it says nothing about who at Hibs determined his value or who at Hibs declined to better St Mirren's offer, but it will still be seized on as evidence that the board are conspiring to relegate Hibs.

It's clear the Saints do yes. I don't think the board want us to drop. But they better have a back up because if PF thinks he's good enough then the board should maybe listen to him. Unless PF has someone else in line who can fill the role for the deal Hibs offered.

[Mon_the_cabbage]

Sounded like he was one of PF's main targets.....Do you think PF would have said, nah hes not worth £2k a week.....Possible of course, but who knows.....

Really? What did Fenlon say about Goodwin? Do you have a link to some quotes?

[Thecat23]

Yeh it does mate, thanks for that :aok:. Do you know through your contacts if we have anyone else lined up?

No worries bud, Sadly i don't just keeping my fingers crossed we get one or two more in before it shuts.

[Baldy Foghorn]

Really? What did Fenlon say about Goodwin? Do you have a link to some quotes?

Alright he wasn't one of PF's targets, I just made it all up

[Thecat23]

I had the same gut feelings Carlsberg, but TheCat seems to have confirmed them

Honest guys, No matter what i read i know this actually happened. People will still prob think it didn't and that's fair enough. I know it did and it's a player i think could have done a job and he DID fancy the move.

[Aubenas]

PF has to look long term. He may have seen Goodwin as a good man to get us out of the doo doo, but not for the long term That would have affected his valuation. Pushing the boat out for an enforcer is probably not the way we'd want the club to be going - as hard men are reasonably easy to source

[Mon_the_cabbage]

Alright he wasn't one of PF's targets, I just made it all up

You've just made that bit up,

You said it sounded like he was one of his main targets.

How do you know he was a main target? How do you know he wasn't a cheeky wee nice to get (if cheap but not to fussy if not) type signing?

[Thecat23]

Really? What did Fenlon say about Goodwin? Do you have a link to some quotes?

Brown and Fenlon wanted him and seen him as a player that Hibs could build a team round. Not sure if anyone know's BB on here but sure they could confirn this.

[Twa Cairpets]

I had the same gut feelings Carlsberg, but TheCat seems to have confirmed them

An absolutely perfect example of rumour becoming fact.

In a few weeks it wont be anything but fact.

Im not saying TheCat23 is wrong, or lying, or has been misinformed, or is posting maliciously or anything like it.

As I said - confirmation bias. The p;layer posts his version, it doesnt fit with the preconceived view, so its treated as being questionable. A poster on the forum states what he believes to be correct and this is confirmation. See how it works?

I am NOT saying its not true, by the way, Im just showing that this happens all the time, and its bollox.

As an aside, assuming that TheCat23 is right, it just reads like we havent got into a bidding war. I've stated before that the difference in budget available for individual players between clubs other than the uglies and the bankrupt swine over by is marginal. We're not in the position, I would think, to double or treble or whatever his salary if we dont think its worth it.

Maybe better keeping it for someone else maybe?

[Baldy Foghorn]

You've just made that bit up,

You said it sounded like he was one of his main targets.

How do you know he was a main target? How do you know he wasn't a cheeky wee nice to get (if cheap but not to fussy if not) type signing?

Is that like most of our signings?

[down the slope]

Really? What did Fenlon say about Goodwin? Do you have a link to some quotes?

Said it here , http://www.hibernianfc.co.uk/news/20120126/boss-on-rangers-and-transfers_2262950_2590058

[Captain Trips]

PF has to look long term. He may have seen Goodwin as a good man to get us out of the doo doo, but not for the long term That would have affected his valuation. Pushing the boat out for an enforcer is probably not the way we'd want the club to be going - as hard men are reasonably easy to source


Disagree as this was a pre contract this would have been 2yrs minimum I think, I reckon a player to help now and to use in the rebuild was PF thoughts. Maybe thecat can confirm this was a longer term deal than our usual of late?

[HibbyAndy]

PF has to look long term. He may have seen Goodwin as a good man to get us out of the doo doo, but not for the long term That would have affected his valuation. Pushing the boat out for an enforcer is probably not the way we'd want the club to be going - as hard men are reasonably easy to source




Well i hope to god he has a short term target to get us out of said 'doo doo' As this team will take us down.



We need at least 4 more players.

[IWasThere2016]

Just to clear this up guys, Saints offer WAS better then what we offered. No idea who much was put to him all i know is that Hibs didn't match what Saints gave him. Sourse is a former Saints player and an agent.

So for those saying Hibs did match etc.. They didn't.

This is correct.

[Thecat23]

Oh I know that and stated in thread I would have said the same as him 100% but always felt there was more to it than loyalty or the fans.

You were right bud.

[Saorsa]

Honest guys, No matter what i read i know this actually happened. People will still prob think it didn't and that's fair enough. I know it did and it's a player i think could have done a job and he DID fancy the move.I absolutely believe it, sounds bang on the money tae me. http://i19.photobucket.com/albums/b168/jamie1971/smilies%202/tachescrooge.gif

[Thecat23]

This is correct.

Cheers TQM, i knew someone would also know what really happened. :agree:

[Baldy Foghorn]

An absolutely perfect example of rumour becoming fact.

In a few weeks it wont be anything but fact.

Im not saying TheCat23 is wrong, or lying, or has been misinformed, or is posting maliciously or anything like it.

As I said - confirmation bias. The p;layer posts his version, it doesnt fit with the preconceived view, so its treated as being questionable. A poster on the forum states what he believes to be correct and this is confirmation. See how it works?

I am NOT saying its not true, by the way, Im just showing that this happens all the time, and its bollox.

As an aside, assuming that TheCat23 is right, it just reads like we havent got into a bidding war. I've stated before that the difference in budget available for individual players between clubs other than the uglies and the bankrupt swine over by is marginal. We're not in the position, I would think, to double or treble or whatever his salary if we dont think its worth it.

Maybe better keeping it for someone else maybe?

Time will tell on the part in bold

I have no reason for not trusting TheCat on this one....

[Captain Trips]

You've just made that bit up,

You said it sounded like he was one of his main targets.

How do you know he was a main target? How do you know he wasn't a cheeky wee nice to get (if cheap but not to fussy if not) type signing?

I would say anyone he was looking to sign for 2yrs+ was a main target and the loans are easier to get. I believe we would have been looking at a minimum 2yr deal for Goodwin as he was in contract to a point therefore suggesting he may be important player.

[Mon_the_cabbage]

Said it here , http://www.hibernianfc.co.uk/news/20120126/boss-on-rangers-and-transfers_2262950_2590058

Ah right gotcha.

"We spoke to St Mirren about Jim (Goodwin) and he's made a decision to stay there - we've got to respect that and good luck to him.

"But we've got other targets and we're trying to get players in. It is a difficult time, but we're hoping to bring in a couple more before the window closes"

Looks like the guy that types the reports to the the website missed the main target quote!

[BarneyK]

What i was told Lex was Saints had told him of the offer he would get if he stayed on and Goodwin was left to think about it and chat to us and anyone else who was interested. Hibs then offered him a deal that wasn't as good as Saints. He made Hibs aware of this and then Hibs left it a day or two and said it's a take it or leave it deal with us. Nothing about matching Saints deal.

Didn't we just speak to him yesterday? Why would he come through knowing we were offering less?

[Hibbyradge]

Sounded like he was one of PF's main targets.....Do you think PF would have said, nah hes not worth £2k a week.....Possible of course, but who knows.....

If most certainly is not worth £2k a week, imo, so I hope PF would say the same.

[HibbyAndy]

If most certainly is not worth £2k a week, imo, so I hope PF would say the same.



But thats just your theory tho yeah?

[Andy74]

Cheers TQM, i knew someone would also know what really happened. :agree:

Oh aye. That's confirmation right enough. :rolleyes:

If we offered less than St Mirren then fine. There's a limit to what players are worth and we move on to something that's worth it.

[Thecat23]

An absolutely perfect example of rumour becoming fact.

In a few weeks it wont be anything but fact.

Im not saying TheCat23 is wrong, or lying, or has been misinformed, or is posting maliciously or anything like it.

As I said - confirmation bias. The p;layer posts his version, it doesnt fit with the preconceived view, so its treated as being questionable. A poster on the forum states what he believes to be correct and this is confirmation. See how it works?

I am NOT saying its not true, by the way, Im just showing that this happens all the time, and its bollox.

As an aside, assuming that TheCat23 is right, it just reads like we havent got into a bidding war. I've stated before that the difference in budget available for individual players between clubs other than the uglies and the bankrupt swine over by is marginal. We're not in the position, I would think, to double or treble or whatever his salary if we dont think its worth it.


Maybe better keeping it for someone else maybe?

I actually know what you mean, I could easily have just been a random poster and made it up. But I know a couple of posters on here bud and i'd never just post something like that as i know they would call me on it. They also know the rubbish players are made to say and what rubbish the papers write. Thats the one thing i can say that knowing footballers it opens you're eyes to how a paper really can change a story. What i posted is 100% true. I know your not calling me a liar by the way and i'm also not slating the board. Just telling the real reason why he never came to ER.

[HibbyAndy]

Oh aye. That's confirmation right enough. :rolleyes:

If we offered less than St Mirren then fine. There's a limit to what players are worth and we move on to something that's worth it.


We did..And i would't say that's fine.

[Hibbyradge]

But thats just your theory tho yeah?

What theory?

It's my opinion.

[Thecat23]

Oh aye. That's confirmation right enough. :rolleyes:

If we offered less than St Mirren then fine. There's a limit to what players are worth and we move on to something that's worth it.

Not being funny mate, but for one i'm not asking you to believe me, i'm not having a go at the board either or Hibs. Just telling what i know is true. Whether you believe me or not i don't really care. I don't know TQM so he didn't need to come on and back that up. There are people who know players and agents and get info and i happen to know a few. I'm not saying he was worth it or he wasn't. I do think he would have made the team stronger but if we get someone in just as good or better then great. If not then it's a huge mistake not to go with the managers pick of the player he and Brown wanted.

[Mon_the_cabbage]

I would say anyone he was looking to sign for 2yrs+ was a main target and the loans are easier to get. I believe we would have been looking at a minimum 2yr deal for Goodwin as he was in contract to a point therefore suggesting he may be important player.

I agree to an extent in what you say here but my point was more to do with the interpretation of the word main I guess.

I'm sure that there will be several "main" targets for each position all with differing levels of value to Hibs. Approaches will be made and I would assume (cos I have to in this matter) that these can be rebuffed for a myriad of reasons.

What I was trying to point out was that Goodwin would have been identified as a target and that a certain value applied to him. It is entirely conceivable that the value Hibs applied was not the same as St Mirren applied to their current captain. We may have another very similar player in mind who we are talking to who does not have Danny Lennon as manager to blab to the press about so we do not hear of it. He may be cheaper and bring less to the team, or be more expensive but bring more.

[HibbyAndy]

What theory?

It's my opinion.



Freedom of speech, Wonderful thing eh.

[carnoustiehibee]

Oh aye. That's confirmation right enough. :rolleyes:

If we offered less than St Mirren then fine. There's a limit to what players are worth and we move on to something that's worth it.

This post doesn't make sense! It's worrying if st mirren limit is more than ours, also what do you mean by , something that's worth it? Worth what

[Don Giovanni]

I said maybe 10 days ago that if Goodwin was the managers main target then Scott Lyndsay should do everything possible to get Goodwin in for Fenlon and show the fans that they do back the managers that come to Hibs, thats now Goodwin(St Mirren) Sheridan (St Johnstone) and Rooney (ICT) that we have lost out on now, the managers seem to be identifying players but as soon as it gets moved on to the next bit, RP SL whoever it is that do the deals that it starts to go wrong and we lose out on these players.

:agree good post.

Someone posted earlier that "it's up to Fenlon to go out and get them" in reference to signing targets but that isn't the case is it?

If Goodwin was Fenlons preferred player (and let's assume we're working from the top of the list downwards - surely?) then it was up to Lyndsey / Petrie / the board to do everything in their power to secure the signature. In that respect it would appear they have failed.

Most posters were of the opinion that Goodwin would improve our team. Certainly in my opinion he would have walked into our midfield (or defence for that matter as he has also featured at CH & RB in his career - and who would claim he wouldn't improve us in those positions?) but not only that he is the type of character we have been missing from the team. I'm sure if we had signed him would be crowing "we've signed a captain / a winner / a guy who will demand and bully the best out of those around him". In that sense we may have missed out on someone who is more valuable than just filling one first team shirt - not to mention weaken a direct rival.

Instead we are once again scanning down the list trying to pick someone up before the window closes.

Well done Hibs. :bitchy:

[ScottB]

We did..And i would't say that's fine.

Not really, we have a budget, they have a budget. That ours may be larger doesn't mean we have more to spare after all.

At this stage we don't know, nor probably ever will know what happened, did PF decide Goodwin wasn't worth the chunk of budget he was asking for? Were we just playing hardball and it backfired? Did Rod slam the biscuit tin shut and say nae chance? We don't know.

Sure, it's disappointing to miss out on the guy, but I don't think any perceived notions about how big a club we are in comparison really come into it.

[HibbyAndy]

Not really, we have a budget, they have a budget. That ours may be larger doesn't mean we have more to spare after all.

At this stage we don't know, nor probably ever will know what happened, did PF decide Goodwin wasn't worth the chunk of budget he was asking for? Were we just playing hardball and it backfired? Did Rod slam the biscuit tin shut and say nae chance? We don't know.

Sure, it's disappointing to miss out on the guy, but I don't think any perceived notions about how big a club we are in comparison really come into it.




Thats just all your opinion tho eh?,


cause wayyyy back at the start of this thread all we heard was 'Its not the boards fault' and can you back it up?... So can you back your post up?.



Annoying eh?.

[Dashing Bob S]

And that would be speculation, wouldnt it?

How much was enough, and extra £1000 a week? £2000? £4000? What? What is the marginal difference in salary required to tempt the player? Maybe he wanted a big signing on fee as well that was deemed outwith his value. I dont know and neither do you, so to say that "we never offered him enough" might be true but it is a fundamentally stupid statement. He would have come presumably for £10k a week, no doubt. Would you have liked us to pay that? No? How much then? What's your magical figure that equates to "enough"

You, and others, seem to conflate the club "not backing the manager" or being uncompetitive against St mirren or st johnstone as an absolute. Its not. We've has some keech through the doors on the playing front from what ultimately turned out to be a pair of foootballing clowns in the managerial seat, but during these times we have been competitive against others, but the decision made on footballing ability has not been succesful.

As for best in Europe, you can hearken back to those good old days all you want but it is utterly, utterly irrelevant to what is happening now. Different world.

Yes it's a different world and what's happening in it is we are being outbid for players out manager has identified as bringing benefit to our squad by the St Mirren's of this world. I failed to notice them becoming a major European power.

[matty_f]

I think the signing of McPake in particular showed that the board are trying to get Fenlon's targets in - he was identified very early on in the window as a target and with a bit of work, we got him here albeit on a loan deal.

Goodwin has clearly been high on Fenlon's wish list as well, and it's disappointing to have missed out on him. It's easy to draw the conclusion that it was solely a financial decision for Goodwin, though his own statement contradicts that view. Hibs decided after speaking to Goodwin that they wouldn't match St Mirren's offer. It could be that Goodwin had made his position clear and so an increased bid would have been a waste of time. It could be that we couldn't afford to go higher. We can but speculate.

My opinion is that the Board should have moved Heaven and Earth to get Goodwin in when Fenlon made it clear he was a priority. If they did that and he still wanted to stay at St Mirren then I'm not sure how they can be criticised for it. If they didn't do everything they could, then they should be held accountable.

[ScottB]

Thats just all your opinion tho eh?,


cause wayyyy back at the start of this thread all we heard was 'Its not the boards fault' and can you back it up?... So can you back your post up?.



Annoying eh?.

Ultimately, everything on here, aside from the odd 'in the know' post is conjecture and opinion at best. Seeing as my post is openly me making random guesses, it doesn't need backed up :wink:

Of course, some things are repeated enough that they become FACT...

[Baldy Foghorn]

I think the signing of McPake in particular showed that the board are trying to get Fenlon's targets in - he was identified very early on in the window as a target and with a bit of work, we got him here albeit on a loan deal.

Goodwin has clearly been high on Fenlon's wish list as well, and it's disappointing to have missed out on him. It's easy to draw the conclusion that it was solely a financial decision for Goodwin, though his own statement contradicts that view. Hibs decided after speaking to Goodwin that they wouldn't match St Mirren's offer. It could be that Goodwin had made his position clear and so an increased bid would have been a waste of time. It could be that we couldn't afford to go higher. We can but speculate.

My opinion is that the Board should have moved Heaven and Earth to get Goodwin in when Fenlon made it clear he was a priority. If they did that and he still wanted to stay at St Mirren then I'm not sure how they can be criticised for it. If they didn't do everything they could, then they should be held accountable.

How will we ever know, the Board will say they did everything they could....Some may believe them, some may not.....

[Andy Bee]

This post doesn't make sense! It's worrying if st mirren limit is more than ours, also what do you mean by , something that's worth it? Worth what

It doesn't equate to St Mirren offering more than us, it equates to St Mirren valuing the player more than us, move on, he aint Ronaldo, get over it :wink:

[Twa Cairpets]

OK

For reasons of clarity I am using MADE UP NUMBERS.

Lets say St Mirren place more value on keeping Goodwin than Hibs do on getting him - key player, captain etc.

They offer him £2k a week to stay if he signs on, and increase form his previos salary of £1.5K. Hibs have offered him £1.75K to sign. Should we go back and offer £2.5K? £3K. Where is the tipping point for Goodwin to move - £10k a year extra? £30K, £100K? At what point do we get him or at what point to we stop trying to get him?

He has a perceived value to Hibs, and Hibs offer based on that valuation. If that particular player doesnt come, then we dont get him because he's worth more to someone else.

There was a lot of this type of stuff about Sheridan in the summer - "how have we been outbid wail wail gnash gnash". Hardly setting the heather on fire is he?

[Mon_the_cabbage]

Thats just all your opinion tho eh?,


cause wayyyy back at the start of this thread all we heard was 'Its not the boards fault' and can you back it up?... So can you back your post up?.



Annoying eh?.

You seem to be confusing hypothesis with opinion?

[HibbyAndy]

You seem to be confusing hypothesis with opinion?




Your right..



Apologies to you

[Hibbyradge]

Freedom of speech, Wonderful thing eh.

Sorry, Andy, I don't understand your point.

[HibbyAndy]

Sorry, Andy, I don't understand your point.




Thats ok Radge, It wasn't a point.


Statement :aok:

[Hibbyradge]

Thats ok Radge, It wasn't a point.


Statement :aok:

Cool.

In that case, I agree with you again.

Free speech certainly is barry.

The Carfraemill windmillls are scary. That's a FACT. And an opinion. :agree:

Confusing, eh?

[HibbyAndy]

Cool.

In that case, I agree with you again.

Free speech certainly is barry.

The Carfraemill windmillls are scary. That's a FACT. And an opinion. :agree:

Confusing, eh?



:greengrin

:wink:

[HibbyAndy]

What theory?

It's my opinion.



You on auto pilot? Either that or your mrs posted the same reply half an hour ago boyo :aok:

[Hibbyradge]

You on auto pilot? Either that or your mrs posted the same reply half an hour ago boyo :aok:

That interweb thingy is a bit goosed here.

I'll delete if you will. :greengrin

[EasterRoad4Ever]

This Message Board never ceases to amaze me with the ability of some to always - and I mean always - give the benefit of the doubt to our Board.

After some disasters there's no doubt they learned to maximise the value of a crop of players you see once in a generation, at a time when there was still money in Scottish Football. In itself not actually very hard to do. We then paid off some debt and put the rest in to bricks and mortar building a decent training centre (it is not, has never been and never will be 'state-of-the-art') and then a stand that has yet to be sold out. In itself easy enough to do as well. Of course the player sales propped up the balance sheet making RP look like some sort of guru.

Now the same people - people who do everything they can to convince me anyway that they've not got the faintest idea about the game, or the faintest hint of ambition for our Club are presiding over the worst ever home record, resulting in more and more people staying away and a squad with almost zero talent. Yet when the going gets tough they simply tell us we're stronger together and to get more people along. Almost contemptible.

And yet once again another top pick from the manager's list alludes us and still some people give yet more, unending almost, benefit of the doubt. A few more loan signings come, for a few months, putting us back in exactly the same position in June and some seem not to care.

This Club hasn't got a clue about the game in the Boardroom and there's not a shred of evidence to prove otherwise.

100% agree.

[Gala Foxes]

There was a time when players at the clubs that get 3k to 5k attendances saw a move to Hibs as a step up.

None of us can be sure as to the reason why Goodwin chose to stay at St Mirren however if you put yourself in his position - you are approached by an potential new employer who on the positive side has a bigger business but on the down side you know they are not trading well & they have gone through a manager a year for the last 5 years. There is also a track record of previous "new start" employees getting binned before they have passed their first year anniversary - would you move ?

This club is not in a good place - mismanagement at a senior level has made Hibs an unattractive proposition for any player other than short fix loan signings

Time our directors stepped up to the mark and brought some stability to our club

[ruthven_raiders]

There was a time when players at the clubs that get 3k to 5k attendances saw a move to Hibs as a step up.

None of us can be sure as to the reason why Goodwin chose to stay at St Mirren however if you put yourself in his position - you are approached by an potential new employer who on the positive side has a bigger business but on the down side you know they are not trading well & they have gone through a manager a year for the last 5 years. There is also a track record of previous "new start" employees getting binned before they have passed their first year anniversary - would you move ?

This club is not in a good place - mismanagement at a senior level has made Hibs an unattractive proposition for any player other than short fix loan signings

Time our directors stepped up to the mark and brought some stability to our club

Excellent post you have had it the nail on the head we are where we are and most of the current crop of players have to step put to the plate with the help of current management team

[AlbertK86]

There was a time when players at the clubs that get 3k to 5k attendances saw a move to Hibs as a step up.

None of us can be sure as to the reason why Goodwin chose to stay at St Mirren however if you put yourself in his position - you are approached by an potential new employer who on the positive side has a bigger business but on the down side you know they are not trading well & they have gone through a manager a year for the last 5 years. There is also a track record of previous "new start" employees getting binned before they have passed their first year anniversary - would you move ?

This club is not in a good place - mismanagement at a senior level has made Hibs an unattractive proposition for any player other than short fix loan signings

Time our directors stepped up to the mark and brought some stability to our club

Correct but will they......they appear to be backing their manager right enough !

[Beefster]

I see the role of the board being to provide strategy and stability for the club whilst ensuring that we have a good manager whose plans they are willing to fund.

They've provided the strategy by investing in the stadium and training facilities (although I'd like more from the academy) whilst keeping us financially stable. Each manager has had his plans backed,

Howver they've struggled the last few times to appoint the right manager which has led to the poor results and performances over the last couple of years. This is the one area I'd consider them to be incompetent.

I also have faith that Fenlon is a good choice.

There's no real evidence of that, Doyle apart. Signing players on loan and having to bring trialists to the club isn't an indicator of Fenlon's plans being backed.


I think the signing of McPake in particular showed that the board are trying to get Fenlon's targets in - he was identified very early on in the window as a target and with a bit of work, we got him here albeit on a loan deal.

Goodwin has clearly been high on Fenlon's wish list as well, and it's disappointing to have missed out on him. It's easy to draw the conclusion that it was solely a financial decision for Goodwin, though his own statement contradicts that view. Hibs decided after speaking to Goodwin that they wouldn't match St Mirren's offer. It could be that Goodwin had made his position clear and so an increased bid would have been a waste of time. It could be that we couldn't afford to go higher. We can but speculate.

My opinion is that the Board should have moved Heaven and Earth to get Goodwin in when Fenlon made it clear he was a priority. If they did that and he still wanted to stay at St Mirren then I'm not sure how they can be criticised for it. If they didn't do everything they could, then they should be held accountable.

The problem is that this isn't the first time that there have been stories of Hibs refusing to offer enough to attract one of our top targets. John Collins' resignation was partially down to the same issue.

I said at the beginning of the window that anyone expecting anything different in this window from previous ones were going to be disappointed. If Thecat23's story is true, the club have demonstrated that financials will always be the priority. Their opportunity to re-energise the support, minimise the ST drop next season (even if we stay up, they'll drop substantially IMHO) and make a statement of intent for the future has passed.

[smurf]

There was a time when players at the clubs that get 3k to 5k attendances saw a move to Hibs as a step up.

None of us can be sure as to the reason why Goodwin chose to stay at St Mirren however if you put yourself in his position - you are approached by an potential new employer who on the positive side has a bigger business but on the down side you know they are not trading well & they have gone through a manager a year for the last 5 years. There is also a track record of previous "new start" employees getting binned before they have passed their first year anniversary - would you move ?

This club is not in a good place - mismanagement at a senior level has made Hibs an unattractive proposition for any player other than short fix loan signings

Time our directors stepped up to the mark and brought some stability to our club

Well said.

[aob4green]

You've just made that bit up,

You said it sounded like he was one of his main targets.

How do you know he was a main target? How do you know he wasn't a cheeky wee nice to get (if cheap but not to fussy if not) type signing?

What an utterly ridiculous thing to say.

Hibs publicly court the captain of another SPL club and enter talks to try and sign him. This would have made him only Hibs second permanent signing of the window. His signing would have provided a much needed bit of grit and leadership. Yet you try and make an arguement that he wasn't a main target. Bizarre.

As an aside the whole matter is a complete and utter embarassment.

[ahibby]

So all we know for sure is he is staying at St Mirren and he'll get more from them than we were prepared to pay him, is that right? I can't say I know much about him but he has the experience of the SPL that we need, that' my limit. Maybe he used us to get a better deal from them. Maybe he really didn't fancy a relegation fight. Maybe he lives through the west and doesn't want to move and doesn't like driving a lot. Maybe his dog doesn't have a bone and he is really fed up. Maybe we have someone better lined up in the summer. Maybe we tell players that we have to look at contracts again in the summer if we are relegated (maybe that's going too far).

[Andy74]

What an utterly ridiculous thing to say.

Hibs publicly court the captain of another SPL club and enter talks to try and sign him. This would have made him only Hibs second permanent signing of the window. His signing would have provided a much needed bit of grit and leadership. Yet you try and make an arguement that he wasn't a main target. Bizarre.

As an aside the whole matter is a complete and utter embarassment.

It was made public by St Mirren All we've said on it is that we talked to him but he wanted to stay at St Mirren.

All that says is that he was a target but we will no doubt have spoken to several players which is what you do when assessing what's available, particularly opportune ones that are out of contract shortly.

Fenlon semed prertty relaxed about it.

[basehibby]

You are hysterical.

.......


YOU = :ostrich::ostrich: (one for each carpet)

[TrickyNicky]

YOU = :ostrich::ostrich: (one for each carpet)

:faf:

[basehibby]

PF has to look long term. He may have seen Goodwin as a good man to get us out of the doo doo, but not for the long term That would have affected his valuation. Pushing the boat out for an enforcer is probably not the way we'd want the club to be going - as hard men are reasonably easy to source

Not true - Fenlon was willing to sign Goodwin on a pre-contract - so not just a signing for the short term to get us out of trouble but more likely a first step in rebuilding the spine of the team.

[Thecat23]

Not true - Fenlon was willing to sign Goodwin on a pre-contract - so not just a signing for the short term to get us out of trouble but more likely a first step in rebuilding the spine of the team.

That's what he did want to do mate. i posted this and he really wanted to build a team around him and BB was also saying the same.

[brog]

Sorry if this is duplication, I don't have time to read 16 pages, but I said early on that talk of us paying £85k was a myth. It can join the list with GOC at Murray Park for a medical & Jordi Cruyff on the 26 bus!! TBF to Hibs, I wouldn't have paid £85K for Goodwin & St M would have driven him through to ER in a Roller if we had made such an offer. The sad part is St M would have accepted £30k now if Goodwin wanted to go & if we'd offered him a tad more ( probably less than £500 pw ) he would be here by now.

[Andy74]

Not true - Fenlon was willing to sign Goodwin on a pre-contract - so not just a signing for the short term to get us out of trouble but more likely a first step in rebuilding the spine of the team.

You're a lucky man. Not only do the board share details of the club's budget and finances with you, the management team also have you in on their strategy for the team too.

[basehibby]

How will we ever know, the Board will say they did everything they could....Some may believe them, some may not.....

The fact that we've been outbid by St Midden states VERY clearly to me that they did NOT do everything in their power to secure this signing.

This board has a track record of being tight to the point of unreasonableness and this episode shows all the signs of being yet another case of same old. I have given them the benefit of the doubt in the past because of off the park achievements, but now, with our backs to the relegation trapdoor, they have let us all down badly IMO and they have lost me as a supporter (of the boardroom regime that is). They will need to really go some to get me back - for now I will add my voice to the growing faction demanding change at the top.

[Andy74]

The fact that we've been outbid by St Midden states VERY clearly to me that they did NOT do everything in their power to secure this signing.

This board has a track record of being tight to the point of unreasonableness and this episode shows all the signs of being yet another case of same old. I have given them the benefit of the doubt in the past because of off the park achievements, but now, with our backs to the relegation trapdoor, they have let us all down badly IMO and they have lost me as a supporter (of the boardroom regime that is). They will need to really go some to get me back - for now I will add my voice to the growing faction demanding change at the top.

The fact?

[Cropley10]

There's no real evidence of that, Doyle apart. Signing players on loan and having to bring trialists to the club isn't an indicator of Fenlon's plans being backed.

Their opportunity to re-energise the support, minimise the ST drop next season (even if we stay up, they'll drop substantially IMHO) and make a statement of intent for the future has passed.

:agree: - it's like Groundhog Day.


This would have made him only Hibs second permanent signing of the window. His signing would have provided a much needed bit of grit and leadership. Yet you try and make an arguement that he wasn't a main target

:agree: - the Happy Clapper is always prepared to give the benefit of the doubt on every occasion.


Not true - Fenlon was willing to sign Goodwin on a pre-contract - so not just a signing for the short term to get us out of trouble but more likely a first step in rebuilding the spine of the team.

:agree: - we will now be rebuilding AGAIN in the Summer.

[basehibby]

You're a lucky man. Not only do the board share details of the club's budget and finances with you, the management team also have you in on their strategy for the team too.

It's a combination of common sense and reading between the lines mate - combined into a potent mix of stating the bleeding obvious.

[CropleyWasGod]

I am going to throw another scenario in here. No inside knowledge, of course, but a reasonable guess.

PF has, let's say, a budget to spend of £10k per week in wages. He thinks he can get, and has identified, four players for that. The only one that we know about is Goodwin, and that's only because St. Mirren made it public. Hibs, as ever, keep things quiet.

So Goodwin knocks us back because we aren't offering as much as St. Mirren. Isn't it entirely possible that, because of his demands, PF's "four players" would have had to be reduced to three, had we gone with Goodwin?

Maybe he has said "nah, let's look at the bigger picture. I want four players."

[basehibby]

The fact?

You have a great talent for picking hairs don't you?!? OK - the extreme likelyhood strongly backed up by certain posters on this very thread - will that do you???

[Captain Trips]

I am going to throw another scenario in here. No inside knowledge, of course, but a reasonable guess.

PF has, let's say, a budget to spend of £10k per week in wages. He thinks he can get, and has identified, four players for that. The only one that we know about is Goodwin, and that's only because St. Mirren made it public. Hibs, as ever, keep things quiet.

So Goodwin knocks us back because we aren't offering as much as St. Mirren. Isn't it entirely possible that, because of his demands, PF's "four players" would have had to be reduced to three, had we gone with Goodwin?

Maybe he has said "nah, let's look at the bigger picture. I want four players."


Maybe then it was time to up that to 12k p/w accept the hit for next 4/5 months and we can rework things in summer when all our best players have left as were on loan.

[Andy74]

You have a great talent for picking hairs don't you?!? OK - the extreme likelyhood strongly backed up by certain posters on this very thread - will that do you???

No, it won't really.

[CropleyWasGod]

Maybe then it was time to up that to 12k p/w accept the hit for next 4/5 months and we can rework things in summer when all our best players have left as were on loan.

The numbers are examples only. It's the theory that is my point. PF (not the Board) has said "no. It's not worth it."

[basehibby]

No, it won't really.

You = :ostrich::ostrich::ostrich: (a bonus ostrich for sheer persistence)

[Spike Mandela]

Interesting that we have now knocked stories with a 'Yams' prefix off the 1st page. Concentrating on our own problems now that the end of the window approaches.:aok:

[Baldy Foghorn]

Interesting that we have now knocked stories with a 'Yams' prefix off the 1st page. Concentrating on our own problems now that the end of the window approaches.:aok:

Thats how it should be, not interested in the other lot:wink:

[SMAXXA]

Thats how it should be, not interested in the other lot:wink:

Until we return and try sign Sutton or Stevenson before the window closes :greengrin

[Aldo]

Until we return and try sign Sutton or Stevenson before the window closes :greengrin

Could handle that but there is nae chance of getting one of them let alone both tbh.

[SMAXXA]

Could handle that but there is nae chance of getting one of them let alone both tbh.

I know mate thats why I said OR :wink:

FWIW canny see us signing any of theirs

[Aldo]

I know mate thats why I said OR :wink:

FWIW canny see us signing any of theirs

Neither can I but wouldn't mind them.

[SMAXXA]

Neither can I but wouldn't mind them.

Likewise mate, would be decent IMO

[sadtom]

Fair play the boy Goodwin for showing a bit of loyalty to his club.
Wish we had had a few who had done likewise.
All our lot keep telling us how much the love/enjoy it at Hibs but bolt before their saliva is dry on the badge.
Not just to our competitors (so they clearly dont mind coming back to shaft us) but often to stellar football destinations like Scunthorpe, Doncaster, Bristol, Coventry et al.

Gettin really pi$$ed off wi Hibs.

[Spike Mandela]

Fair play the boy Goodwin for showing a bit of loyalty to his club.
Wish we had had a few who had done likewise.
All our lot keep telling us how much the love/enjoy it at Hibs but bolt before their saliva is dry on the badge.
Not just to our competitors (so they clearly dont mind coming back to shaft us) but often to stellar football destinations like Scunthorpe, Doncaster, Bristol, Coventry et al.

Gettin really pi$$ed off wi Hibs.

Yeah it was down to Loyalty. If Bolton or Notts Forest put a bid in for him he'd be off to a relegation battle, without an emotional glance to Paisley, dragging his family hundreds of miles before you could say 'Hibs are skint'. Gies a break!

[RickyS]

Yeah it was down to Loyalty. If Bolton or Notts Forest put a bid in for him he'd be off to a relegation battle, without an emotional glance to Paisley, dragging his family hundreds of miles before you could say 'Hibs are skint'. Gies a break!


this:agree:

[Eyrie]

OK

For reasons of clarity I am using MADE UP NUMBERS.

Lets say St Mirren place more value on keeping Goodwin than Hibs do on getting him - key player, captain etc.

They offer him £2k a week to stay if he signs on, and increase form his previos salary of £1.5K. Hibs have offered him £1.75K to sign. Should we go back and offer £2.5K? £3K. Where is the tipping point for Goodwin to move - £10k a year extra? £30K, £100K? At what point do we get him or at what point to we stop trying to get him?

He has a perceived value to Hibs, and Hibs offer based on that valuation. If that particular player doesnt come, then we dont get him because he's worth more to someone else.
:top marks

It's disappointing to miss out on a player that Fenlon had targetted, so let's hope we have better luck next time.

[AlbertK86]

:top marks

It's disappointing to miss out on a player that Fenlon had targetted, so let's hope we have better luck next time.

Dinnae hud yer breath with what our board are prepared to pay

[Jonnyboy]

Dinnae hud yer breath with what our board are prepared to pay

They'll be paying a few quid re these loan deals. Sensible business in a January window IMO. Stay in the SPL and Pat gets to actually buy players in the summer

[AlbertK86]

They'll be paying a few quid re these loan deals. Sensible business in a January window IMO. Stay in the SPL and Pat gets to actually buy players in the summer

And what kind of quality are going to sign. An average layer like Goodwin turns us down. Ain't very encouraging eh

[Jonnyboy]

And what kind of quality are going to sign. An average layer like Goodwin turns us down. Ain't very encouraging eh

No idea as I sold my crystal ball on eBay :greengrin

FWIW I think the scare this season might create will actually encourage the Board to re-think it's policy on paying fees for players. I might be wrong though, it has been known :wink:

[AlbertK86]

No idea as I sold my crystal ball on eBay :greengrin

FWIW I think the scare this season might create will actually encourage the Board to re-think it's policy on paying fees for players. I might be wrong though, it has been known :wink:

Nah board should have had similar fright last season.

[Jonnyboy]

Nah board should have had similar fright last season.

Only time will tell I guess

[Cod Boy]

we could do with a good win its been a long time

[NorthNorfolkHFC]

I realise i shouldn't cry over spilt milk but i was out for a meal last night and my birds mate is a saints season ticket holder.

Naturally the conversation came to Jimbo Goodwin.

He said Goodwin was 'his' player of the season and his signing of a new contract was like gaining a new player. He said Jimbo is just a good all rounder, tough, can pass and orchestrates his whole team. Interestingly, he said the buddies are trying to play attacking, creative football and Jim fits great into this as a midfield enforcer.

Its a real shame we missed out on him by the sounds of things. The saints have a way of playing i.e.. creative football. I couldn't begin to tell you how hibs are playing or are attempting to play. Nae wonder he chose to stay put.