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Craig_in_Prague
21-01-2012, 04:56 PM
Seriously?

Manager after manager after manager, we continue to ship awful goals, can't defend set pieces (and funnily enough never look dangerous when we have one), what a state.

We look like conceding every time a team come forward.

AWFUL

Green and white
21-01-2012, 05:00 PM
your really believe pat doesn't know he has to improve and or replace the defence? when better defenders come availible he will try sign them.

Littlest Hobo
21-01-2012, 05:01 PM
It's funny because as far as some on here are concerned we are just fine and dandy at the back. It's the midfield they argued that we needed to sort first. That was months and months ago.....and here we are still with the same ***** defence. Thank **** I don't go anymore, I'd be squaring upto those radges that don't agree. Hibs are finished. **** thum, there are other things in life I can sp[end my cash on.

Very sad times indeed.

Craig_in_Prague
21-01-2012, 05:01 PM
your really believe pat doesn't know he has to improve and or replace the defence? when better defenders come availible he will try sign them.

He sat in the stand when we lost 3-1 in Perth.....Surely there could be ONE defender out there, we could have identified and signed......Had months to do it (to identify) and Jan 1st sign.

Green and white
21-01-2012, 05:04 PM
It's funny because as far as some on here are concerned we are just fine and dandy at the back. It's the midfield they argued that we needed to sort first. That was months and months ago.....and here we are still with the same ***** defence. Thank **** I don't go anymore, I'd be squaring upto those radges that don't agree. Hibs are finished. **** thum, there are other things in life I can sp[end my cash on.

Very sad times indeed.

hibs have been around since 1875 and survived relegation before (even though we won't get relegated). there's plenty points to play for and like I said when new defenders become availible then you will see movement from us. unless you would prefer we go out and sign more poor players and increase the wage bill?

Wotherspiniesta
21-01-2012, 05:08 PM
The defence seriously needs some leadership.

Youngsters + Michael Hart= Bad combination.

Nothing that could have been done about the first IMO. Stephens was at fault for the 2nd, though it could be argued Hanlon shouldn't have let the ball bounce. And for the 3rd, Hanlon again, letting Sandaza turn so easily on the edge of our box is unforgiveable (though Sandaza did finish well).

The 2 centre backs struggled all game with the movement of Sandaza and Haber.

We can't go on like this, we're desperate for a solid, no nonsense, experienced defender.

10 goals conceded in our last 4 games. Says it all.

SteveHFC
21-01-2012, 05:10 PM
We need a new defense. But Rod won't get his finger out of his a**** to buy some good defenders.

Sammy7nil
21-01-2012, 05:12 PM
hibs have been around since 1875 and survived relegation before (even though we won't get relegated). there's plenty points to play for and like I said when new defenders become availible then you will see movement from us. unless you would prefer we go out and sign more poor players and increase the wage bill?

To be fair we could use some poor defenders because the defenders we have are worse than poor.

GreenCastle
21-01-2012, 05:12 PM
The defence seriously needs some leadership.

Youngsters + Michael Hart= Bad combination.

Nothing that could have been done about the first IMO. Stephens was at fault for the 2nd, though it could be argued Hanlon shouldn't have let the ball bounce. And for the 3rd, Hanlon again, letting Sandaza turn so easily on the edge of our box is unforgiveable (though Sandaza did finish well).

The 2 centre backs struggled all game with the movement of Sandaza and Haber.

We can't go on like this, we're desperate for a solid, no nonsense, experienced defender.

10 goals conceded in our last 4 games. Says it all.

:agree:

Every team that plays us will be thinking before the game they will score at some point.

No leadership and players get beaten and turned 1v1 so easily -these are kids playing and Michael Hart - who strangely was the best out of all 4 of them today (Booth did take his goal well though).

Pretty Boy
21-01-2012, 05:13 PM
To think we used to moan about Caldwell/Murray, Jones/Hogg or Bamba/Hogg.

I'd kill for any of those.combinations now!

lucky
21-01-2012, 05:16 PM
Booth was awful today but did score. Hart was steady until his weak header in the lead up to the 3rd goal. As for Hanlon and Stephens they were rubbish today but that what you get playing young players. We need 2 center half desperately

stokesmessiah
21-01-2012, 05:17 PM
To think we used to moan about Caldwell/Murray, Jones/Hogg or Bamba/Hogg.

I'd kill for any of those.combinations now!

:agree:

Hogg was hounded out of here for not being good enough, look what we have now.

Tyler Durden
21-01-2012, 05:27 PM
Booth was awful today but did score. Hart was steady until his weak header in the lead up to the 3rd goal. As for Hanlon and Stephens they were rubbish today but that what you get playing young players. We need 2 center half desperately

I'm by no means pinning the blame on Hart but that small error then contributes to us losing the goal. To rewind 30 seconds earlier Hibs have a corner and Griffiths chips in straight to the keeper to lose possession. WTF do the players actually do at training? So many of these basic errors all over the park.

Re Hanlon and Stephens. I think Stephens could still have the makings of a player a year or two down the line if we ever manage to sign quality to bring him along. Hanlon however....he must have played the best part of 100 games now and he's learned nothing. He shows no aggression, is poor on the ball and doesn't seem to give a toss when he regularly costs us goals and points. Wouldn't bat an eyelid if we freed him tomorrow.

Bostonhibby
21-01-2012, 05:32 PM
The defence seriously needs some leadership.

Youngsters + Michael Hart= Bad combination.

Nothing that could have been done about the first IMO. Stephens was at fault for the 2nd, though it could be argued Hanlon shouldn't have let the ball bounce. And for the 3rd, Hanlon again, letting Sandaza turn so easily on the edge of our box is unforgiveable (though Sandaza did finish well).

The 2 centre backs struggled all game with the movement of Sandaza and Haber.

We can't go on like this, we're desperate for a solid, no nonsense, experienced defender.

10 goals conceded in our last 4 games. Says it all.

:agree:

The leadership is the key to it, Hanlon has gone backwards for the lack of a decent mentor, he's consistently been playing alongside journeymen who are no beter than he is despite the "experience" - there's just no decent quality experienced guy to see him or Stephens through and onward as they have potential. They are not the guys for this particular fight, at least not with O'Hanlon and Hart in the same team. I fully expected problems along the way as Hanlon and Stephens developed but I think we are past that point now as the soft touch tag / error prone tag is well and truly stuck to the collective defence.

What would I do? All said we need to find cash for one solid experienced full back - Murphy aside I can't recall the last one though Van Zanten was easily better than any we have had since - and one centre half at least, out of the current defence I'd persist with Hanlon and Stephens if these other players could be found and fill the more experienced role better than others who have just been around a long time.

A Ball winning defensive midfielder who can actually pass and hold up the ball is needed because of what this will bring to the defence, when we are counter attacked we are clueless. Far too easy to find an attacking player in our box, we are normally in trouble inside 2 passes from the opponents being on the defensive.

easty
21-01-2012, 05:40 PM
Re Hanlon and Stephens. I think Stephens could still have the makings of a player a year or two down the line if we ever manage to sign quality to bring him along. Hanlon however....he must have played the best part of 100 games now and he's learned nothing. He shows no aggression, is poor on the ball and doesn't seem to give a toss when he regularly costs us goals and points. Wouldn't bat an eyelid if we freed him tomorrow.

If Stephens turns out to be a good player I'll be amazed. He's not got the brain for it, he just has that blank look about him. Like Rocky when Clubber Lang took him apart, or like Andre The Giant. Id no be surprised if Fenlon ties his laces for him.

Beefster
21-01-2012, 05:44 PM
:agree:

Hogg was hounded out of here for not being good enough, look what we have now.

Hogg wasn't good enough, unless he was being covered by Jones or Bamba. Just cos we're ***** now doesn't make him any better.

Sammy7nil
21-01-2012, 05:46 PM
Hogg wasn't good enough, unless he was being covered by Jones or Bamba. Just cos we're ***** now doesn't make him any better.

Correct, it does however still make him better than we actually have which us the real problem.

skipster7
21-01-2012, 05:53 PM
I said weeks ago Stephens simply will never ever be good enough.far too cumbersome and zero passing ability.no game awareness at all.Hanlon seems to be drifting in a sea of mediocrity,Booth is good on the ball but needs to work on his defending,he seems to be targeted by the opposition but playing behind sproule leaves him 2v1 far too often.O'Hanlon,cant find the words.forwards must look at our defence and rub their hands.

IWasThere2016
21-01-2012, 05:53 PM
Hogg wasn't good enough, unless he was being covered by Jones or Bamba. Just cos we're ***** now doesn't make him any better.

Spot on. ICT's results without are better than with. That is not a coincidence.

Tyler Durden
21-01-2012, 05:57 PM
If Stephens turns out to be a good player I'll be amazed. He's not got the brain for it, he just has that blank look about him. Like Rocky when Clubber Lang took him apart, or like Andre The Giant. Id no be surprised if Fenlon ties his laces for him.

I know what you mean. My point is more that these 2 are referred to as young players. I think that description is accurate for Stephens - he's still not played that many games and his performances show the inexperience (or arguably lack of quality, time will tell).

Whereas IMO, Hanlon has had his chance. He's played alot of games now, he's been in the first team squad for about 4 years and shows no sign of learning from mistakes. I'm sick of watching him cost us goals.

King Paddy
21-01-2012, 05:58 PM
that's the worst i have seen from a Hibs Defence in many a year. The two centre halfs are
to slow, booth is not a left back and Mr Hart sold us for the third goal today. We are now in
deep dodo, but when i posted last night on hibs.net about lack of signing in the window i was
told to shut up because Pat Fenlon needs time to bring the right players to the club. Sorry
but time is was of the essence and we are now very much the team who most likely will be
relegated. Dunfermline got their act together today and kept a clean sheet their is now 1pt
between us and Dunfermline wh have a game in hand you do the maths, major problems
for Hibernian F.C.

crash
21-01-2012, 06:01 PM
Nothing that could have been done about the first IMO.

Thought Stephens poor header led to the first goal, seemed to knock it down to the onrushing saints player when it should have been cleared.

skipster7
21-01-2012, 06:04 PM
i dont think Hart can be blamed for the 3rd.how the ball got to sandaza past about 4 players i'll never know , never mind letting him turn !!.It was a good hit but maybe the keeper should have that side covered as he was only ever going to hit it with his right !:fuming::fuming:

skipster7
21-01-2012, 06:06 PM
Thought Stephens poor header led to the first goal, seemed to knock it down to the onrushing saints player when it should have been cleared.
wasn't a great header but they had about 3 midfielders looking for the second ball and we had none.osbourne jogging 10 yards behind their midfield.

King Paddy
21-01-2012, 06:17 PM
He sat in the stand when we lost 3-1 in Perth.....Surely there could be ONE defender out there, we could have identified and signed......Had months to do it (to identify) and Jan 1st sign.


Beginning to doubt Mr Fenlon has the credentials, he has had plenty of time to at the very least
bring in a decent left back and CH.

N.Wales Hibby
21-01-2012, 06:21 PM
It's funny because as far as some on here are concerned we are just fine and dandy at the back. It's the midfield they argued that we needed to sort first. That was months and months ago.....and here we are still with the same ***** defence. Thank **** I don't go anymore, I'd be squaring upto those radges that don't agree. Hibs are finished. **** thum, there are other things in life I can sp[end my cash on.

Very sad times indeed.

I know where you are coming from with your post. Today for me was the day I finally accepted how far our club has fallen. Those who think we are still a big club are sadly mistaken.

King Paddy
21-01-2012, 06:22 PM
I know what you mean. My point is more that these 2 are referred to as young players. I think that description is accurate for Stephens - he's still not played that many games and his performances show the inexperience (or arguably lack of quality, time will tell).

Whereas IMO, Hanlon has had his chance. He's played alot of games now, he's been in the first team squad for about 4 years and shows no sign of learning from mistakes. I'm sick of watching him cost us goals.


Very poor defender, and as you say plays every week and is at fault on numerous occasions.
If i could drop the entire back four i would but who would replace them kids maybe?.

King Paddy
21-01-2012, 06:24 PM
If Stephens turns out to be a good player I'll be amazed. He's not got the brain for it, he just has that blank look about him. Like Rocky when Clubber Lang took him apart, or like Andre The Giant. Id no be surprised if Fenlon ties his laces for him.


Stephens is soooooooooooooooo slow, it's like watching a cumbersome green giant.

Andy74
21-01-2012, 06:24 PM
Beginning to doubt Mr Fenlon has the credentials, he has had plenty of time to at the very least
bring in a decent left back and CH.

Deary dear.

Craig_in_Prague
21-01-2012, 06:27 PM
I know where you are coming from with your post. Today for me was the day I finally accepted how far our club has fallen. Those who think we are still a big club are sadly mistaken.

I'm getting really frustrated/saddened/angry, that teams and players are now turning up at ER being VERY confident (and rightly so) that they'll probably beat us... or at least score a few goals against us. Rather average players like Liam Craig can't stop scoring against us, coz we are so painfully bad. We are making average players/teams look good. It just get's worse and worse and I honestly think East Mains should be rented out or sold to other interestd parties, the players should be trained by running up Arthur Seat and the likes, IF our young players can't be MEN on the park, don't **** play them, I honestly am sick and tired of pishy teams/clubs getting it all too easy at Easter Road. Rant, over.

Pretty Boy
21-01-2012, 06:28 PM
Beginning to doubt Mr Fenlon has the credentials, he has had plenty of time to at the very least
bring in a decent left back and CH.

I'm sure he's trying.

I know its fast becoming a cliche but the January window is a difficult window to operate in.

Sir David Gray
21-01-2012, 06:39 PM
Beginning to doubt Mr Fenlon has the credentials, he has had plenty of time to at the very least
bring in a decent left back and CH.

Plenty time? :confused:

He's had 3 weeks.

It will take two years to sort this shambles out, not 3 weeks.

Unfortunately that doesn't help at the moment and it may not be enough for us to stay up but he must be given time.

He's already begun the clear out by sending a few of them on their way and he's brought in a couple of new signings so he has to be given the opportunity to turn the club around.

I have no idea if he will be the man to do this, only time will tell on that front but I'm willing to give him a bit more than two months to turn this around.

Carheenlea
21-01-2012, 06:54 PM
Listening to an absolutely seething Billy Brown on the radio heading home at least we can be hopeful that we are pursuing central defenders. He admitted that it is an area we badly need to strengthen, so fingers crossed we can make at least one, if not two signings of better quality than we already have before the windows out.

Pretty Boy
21-01-2012, 06:56 PM
He sounded absolutely ****ing furious.

Rightly so.

East Coast Hibe
21-01-2012, 07:04 PM
I just watched the second goal again on Alba and it's worse then what I thought at the game?? Hanlon ducks and Stephens stands and lets the guy run bye him and score. WTF ??

You can only assume that Stephens shouted on Hanlon to leave it ??

Twiglet
21-01-2012, 07:04 PM
I was watching him during the match and he did not look happy.
I think the players should be thankful they're not in tomorrow (i assume they're not in til Monday anyway).
He, Fenlon and O'Brian looked ready for blood at some points.

Bostonhibby
21-01-2012, 07:10 PM
Billy Brown interview and admission that central defence needs strengthened.

No kidding Sherlock, at least he was angry enough to maybe do something about it? If it looks like a pig, squeals like a pig and smells like a pig its probably a pig - many of us who do not earn our living from football have been looking at this for far too long, watching the defeats racking up on the back of defensive errors and collective lack of confidence as a result. We are largely shuffling the same pack around, we have never replaced Rob Jones either as a leader or a player, and the full back position and how we have attempted to paper over the cracks with players who aren't full backs or are past it is ludicrous, I believe it set Spoony back being pitched in there so early in a poor defence.

I have a feeling Brown does care but whether he will get the means to fix it is another matter.

Alfred E Newman
21-01-2012, 07:12 PM
I think Browns most telling remark came when he was asked if he thought Hibs had the players at the club to get us out of this mess.
His answer was "I hope so"

steakbake
21-01-2012, 07:12 PM
He sounded absolutely ****ing furious.

Rightly so.

He did. He was raging.

Said it somewhere else but Butcher made 7 changes today, changed his entire back 4. We have nowhere near that depth.

No leaders on the park and no defence. We're crying out for a senior and experienced leader in defence.

Cropley10
21-01-2012, 07:14 PM
Billy Brown interview and admission that central defence needs strengthened.

No kidding Sherlock, at least he was angry enough to maybe do something about it? If it looks like a pig, squeals like a pig and smells like a pig its probably a pig - many of us who do not earn our living from football have been looking at this for far too long, watching the defeats racking up on the back of defensive errors and collective lack of confidence as a result. We are largely shuffling the same pack around, we have never replaced Rob Jones either as a leader or a player, and the full back position and how we have attempted to paper over the cracks with players who aren't full backs or are past it is ludicrous, I believe it set Spoony back being pitched in there so early in a poor defence.

I have a feeling Brown does care but whether he will get the means to fix it is another matter.

Who did we sign to replace Bamba after he left at 00.01 on January 1st?

truehibernian
21-01-2012, 07:15 PM
I think Browns most telling remark came when he was asked if he thought Hibs had the players at the club to get us out of this mess.
His answer was "I hope so"

Totally revealing malcom.....the pause before he answered, and those words he used, speaks volumes. He doesn't.

Bostonhibby
21-01-2012, 07:17 PM
Who did we sign to replace Bamba after he left at 00.01 on January 1st?

You know what, there was a time when I bothered enough to check before replying, but I am guessing it was Stephens? but only after we'd banked Leicesters cheque in the 5th stand investments fund?

See your point though.:thumbsup:

Ozyhibby
21-01-2012, 07:18 PM
Who did we sign to replace Bamba after he left at 00.01 on January 1st?

Sean O'Hanlon, six months later.

The Green Goblin
21-01-2012, 07:18 PM
i dont think Hart can be blamed for the 3rd.how the ball got to sandaza past about 4 players i'll never know , never mind letting him turn !!.It was a good hit but maybe the keeper should have that side covered as he was only ever going to hit it with his right !:fuming::fuming:

Disagree- Hart minced up a bog standard header and plopped it to the feet of the boy who played it in for the chance. Should have cleared his lines- basic job.

sahib
21-01-2012, 07:21 PM
Plenty time? :confused:

He's had 3 weeks.

It will take two years to sort this shambles out, not 3 weeks.

Unfortunately that doesn't help at the moment and it may not be enough for us to stay up but he must be given time.

He's already begun the clear out by sending a few of them on their way and he's brought in a couple of new signings so he has to be given the opportunity to turn the club around.

I have no idea if he will be the man to do this, only time will tell on that front but I'm willing to give him a bit more than two months to turn this around.

What worries me, about the time he has had, is that Calderwood had a similar indifferent start. In contrast, from Mowbrays first league game I could see we had become a decent footballing side. Down south, MON just needed to sign the contract for Sunderland to be transformed. We really needed an instant lift like that. Still, sometimes things that start well end in disappointment made all the more bitter by the false dawn.

Cropley10
21-01-2012, 07:22 PM
Sean O'Hanlon, six months later.

Bamba out and O'Hanlon in. Tells its own story.

NORTHERNHIBBY
21-01-2012, 07:28 PM
I think that the call after this interview was more pertinent when Tom English asked the Hibby that phoned, if our defenders had more in them, or if they were just not good enough. He said the latter. Tom English says that leaves us needing panic buys?? Well I effin hope not. I posted earlier that I would have accepted no middle to front players coming in as long as we got at least a new right back and at least one CH. Now I am really hoping that the CH is just sorting out the contract and is already lined up.

NorthNorfolkHFC
21-01-2012, 07:28 PM
Who is the irish guy that talks on bbc phone in? He spent about 5 minutes before BB came on talking about how bad Hibs defense is, he couldnt find words to describe it, said he was worried it wasnt players playing below thereselves he was worried it was players who just arent good enough for SPL.

Sammy7nil
21-01-2012, 07:29 PM
I think Browns most telling remark came when he was asked if he thought Hibs had the players at the club to get us out of this mess.
His answer was "I hope so"

That is a REAL worry hoping wont save us.

I would prefer he said No and said we need Players now.

I have seen NO improvement since Billy came in if anything we are worse and unlike Pat he has been there a while. The team is Never set up to be difficult to beat the same mistakes are made week in week out and Billy has proved he is incapable of changing these players if he only has "hope" left god help us.

truehibernian
21-01-2012, 07:32 PM
Disagree- Hart minced up a bog standard header and plopped it to the feet of the boy who played it in for the chance. Should have cleared his lines- basic job.

True.....but Paul Hanlon's defending was worse. Invited Sandaza to shoot, yet again showed he is not strong enough of wholehearted enough at this level of football. It's a big boys game, not U21's. He's simply not good enough IMHO.


Having seen the second goal, maybe someone can 'tweet' David Stephens and ask if there was a shout from the ducking Paul Hanlon ? If they do, can they add the hashtag #youwouldbothbegoodatmusicalstatues

Feed McGraw
21-01-2012, 07:41 PM
I'm by no means pinning the blame on Hart but that small error then contributes to us losing the goal. To rewind 30 seconds earlier Hibs have a corner and Griffiths chips in straight to the keeper to lose possession. WTF do the players actually do at training? So many of these basic errors all over the park.

Re Hanlon and Stephens. I think Stephens could still have the makings of a player a year or two down the line if we ever manage to sign quality to bring him along. Hanlon however....he must have played the best part of 100 games now and he's learned nothing. He shows no aggression, is poor on the ball and doesn't seem to give a toss when he regularly costs us goals and points. Wouldn't bat an eyelid if we freed him tomorrow.

As regards Hanlon, I think you are absolutely spot on. He has been a constant in a consistently awful back four for far too long. 22 years old now with loads of games under his belt, sadly, too many bad ones.

Gala Foxes
21-01-2012, 07:51 PM
Tom English on the BBC Scotland phone in summed it up

"Hibs Central Defenders are hopeless and the team lacks a leader"

Spot on

David Stephens looks like he could do with shedding a serious amount of weight

Dr Jimmy
21-01-2012, 07:51 PM
Beginning to doubt Mr Fenlon has the credentials, he has had plenty of time to at the very least
bring in a decent left back and CH.

With statements like that (and some of your others) I am beginning to question your motives for being on here.

Sir David Gray
21-01-2012, 07:53 PM
What worries me, about the time he has had, is that Calderwood had a similar indifferent start. In contrast, from Mowbrays first league game I could see we had become a decent footballing side. Down south, MON just needed to sign the contract for Sunderland to be transformed. We really needed an instant lift like that. Still, sometimes things that start well end in disappointment made all the more bitter by the false dawn.

I think you really have to consider just how poor the squad that he inherited actually is.

Sunderland have a decent team and should have been doing better than they were, towards the latter stages of Bruce's time in charge. They're now playing at the level they should be under O'Neill.

Under Mowbray, we had some of the most talented youngsters in the country playing for us and he brought in some quality players like Shiels, Beuzelin and Murphy that summer, which helped us to do really well that season.

Fenlon doesn't have that luxury. He's come into a team that has been performing abysmally for around two years now and has arrived just before the start of the January window, which is notorious for not being easy to bring in new players.

I am not surprised in the slightest with the start that he has made as manager. The job that he has on his hands in trying to turn the club around is gigantic. Almost every single player in our current squad is not good enough to play for Hibernian FC and he needs time to gradually clear them out and replace them with better quality.

Sas_The_Hibby
21-01-2012, 07:58 PM
If we don't get at least two decent replacement defenders in the next 10 days we will be relegated IMO.

glenberviehibee
21-01-2012, 08:05 PM
If we don't get at least two decent replacement defenders in the next 10 days we will be relegated IMO.

Totaly agree

Beefster
21-01-2012, 08:13 PM
Plenty time? :confused:

He's had 3 weeks.

It will take two years to sort this shambles out, not 3 weeks.

Unfortunately that doesn't help at the moment and it may not be enough for us to stay up but he must be given time.

He's already begun the clear out by sending a few of them on their way and he's brought in a couple of new signings so he has to be given the opportunity to turn the club around.

I have no idea if he will be the man to do this, only time will tell on that front but I'm willing to give him a bit more than two months to turn this around.

Fenlon's been at the club for almost two months now. Brown's been here even longer. At least one central defender should have been their priority for January because not one of O'Hanlon, Hanlon and Stephens is good enough. The work on getting a defender in should have started at the end of November and been done by now.

Every game with that defence is costing us unless we score three.

KiddA
21-01-2012, 08:21 PM
I just watched the second goal again on Alba and it's worse then what I thought at the game?? Hanlon ducks and Stephens stands and lets the guy run bye him and score. WTF ??

You can only assume that Stephens shouted on Hanlon to leave it ??

It was shocking defending, I ruined my laptop by putting my fist through the screen in a rage. Had a few raging moments over the years but that takes the biscuit for me and now im $600 down to replace my lap top. Only Hibs would drive me to doing this, they are a total disgrace. The one positive was I did not see the rest of the game :agree:

SquashedFrogg
21-01-2012, 08:23 PM
True.....but Paul Hanlon's defending was worse. Invited Sandaza to shoot, yet again showed he is not strong enough of wholehearted enough at this level of football. It's a big boys game, not U21's. He's simply not good enough IMHO.


Having seen the second goal, maybe someone can 'tweet' David Stephens and ask if there was a shout from the ducking Paul Hanlon ? If they do, can they add the hashtag #youwouldbothbegoodatmusicalstatues


I thought the second goal was the worst of the 3. A minute after equalising his adrenaline should've been pumping. Having got back in the match he should have been super motivated to be solid in defence. But no, he's half asleep and totally unaware of his surroundings.

Criminal, regardless of his age or experience...

Sir David Gray
21-01-2012, 08:37 PM
Fenlon's been at the club for almost two months now. Brown's been here even longer. At least one central defender should have been their priority for January because not one of O'Hanlon, Hanlon and Stephens is good enough. The work on getting a defender in should have started at the end of November and been done by now.

Every game with that defence is costing us unless we score three.

Yes but he was physically unable to sign anyone until January 1st.

That was 3 weeks ago.

He only arrived towards the end of November and I would imagine that the first few weeks would have consisted of him assessing the squad and seeing who he wanted to keep and who he wanted to release.

I totally agree that our current defenders are not good enough and I'm sure Fenlon knows that now as well.

However, it's one thing to realise that something's not good enough and something entirely different being able to do something about it.

IWasThere2016
21-01-2012, 08:51 PM
Two-thirds of the way through the window .. Tick tock!

Get the effin' finger out Hibs.

Time for action!

PaulSmith
21-01-2012, 08:54 PM
Two-thirds of the way through the window .. Tick tock!

Get the effin' finger out Hibs.

Time for action!

Last Sat we were 24/48hrs from signing a couple of players, PF has obviously identified them but it would appear that SL is incapable of delivering or supporting him.

Sounds familiar.

greenlex
21-01-2012, 08:59 PM
Last Sat we were 24/48hrs from signing a couple of players, PF has obviously identified them but it would appear that SL is incapable of delivering or supporting him.

Sounds familiar.
Maybe they dont want to come to a team in a real relegation fight.

The Green Goblin
21-01-2012, 09:12 PM
Two-thirds of the way through the window .. Tick tock!

Get the effin' finger out Hibs.

Time for action!

Griffiths got his finger out today...

;-)

GG

Andy74
21-01-2012, 09:13 PM
Last Sat we were 24/48hrs from signing a couple of players, PF has obviously identified them but it would appear that SL is incapable of delivering or supporting him.

Sounds familiar.

That's not what PF said last week.

PaulSmith
21-01-2012, 09:15 PM
That's not what PF said last week.

What was the actual quote?

Feed McGraw
21-01-2012, 09:40 PM
[/B]

I thought the second goal was the worst of the 3. A minute after equalising his adrenaline should've been pumping. Having got back in the match he should have been super motivated to be solid in defence. But no, he's half asleep and totally unaware of his surroundings.

Criminal, regardless of his age or experience...

He`s 22 and has PLENTY experience.

Beefster
21-01-2012, 09:48 PM
That's not what PF said last week.

Fenlon said, in an official Hibs interview, in early January that we were close to 'a couple of things'. More than a fortnight later, we've brought someone in on loan from Norwich.

matty_f
21-01-2012, 10:04 PM
Fenlon said, in an official Hibs interview, in early January that we were close to 'a couple of things'. More than a fortnight later, we've brought someone in on loan from Norwich.

:agree: it can't all be about our league position either so you have to ask just how far short of potential players' expectations are we falling to be failing to get people that we desperately need in.

The board have to realise that what they are doing is not working to the extent that it will send us down unless they take an immediate change of policy and actually move Heaven and earth to secure Fenlon's targets.

Picking up end of window scraps and hoping a trialist here or there looks ok is not going to cut it again. We've tried that for the last few years and have gotten progressively worse to the point that if Dunfermline win their game in hand then we are bottom.

The board need to wake up NOW.

SneakersO'Toole
21-01-2012, 10:18 PM
:agree: it can't all be about our league position either so you have to ask just how far short of potential players' expectations are we falling to be failing to get people that we desperately need in.

The board have to realise that what they are doing is not working to the extent that it will send us down unless they take an immediate change of policy and actually move Heaven and earth to secure Fenlon's targets.

Picking up end of window scraps and hoping a trialist here or there looks ok is not going to cut it again. We've tried that for the last few years and have gotten progressively worse to the point that if Dunfermline win their game in hand then we are bottom.

The board need to wake up NOW.

Well said Matty.

Whenever I ever I have spoken to the board or been in their company, I've always got the impression that they put a lot of emphasis on hope rather than a tangible strategy.

Once again, we ourselves repeating the same mistakes from the last few years. This is why change is needed.

Collectively, they are not innovative, not forward thinking and lack proper football acumen. And I include STF in all this.

Take the last AGM for example, STF didn't once directly answer any of the questions posed to him. Instead, he just went off on a emotive rant about Petrie being the hardest working chairmen in the SPL. Hard work will only take you so far...

Beefster
22-01-2012, 06:52 AM
:agree: it can't all be about our league position either so you have to ask just how far short of potential players' expectations are we falling to be failing to get people that we desperately need in.

The board have to realise that what they are doing is not working to the extent that it will send us down unless they take an immediate change of policy and actually move Heaven and earth to secure Fenlon's targets.

Picking up end of window scraps and hoping a trialist here or there looks ok is not going to cut it again. We've tried that for the last few years and have gotten progressively worse to the point that if Dunfermline win their game in hand then we are bottom.

The board need to wake up NOW.

Entirely agree, Matty. I have absolutely no confidence in the ability/desire of those in charge to either change their thinking or do anything about our current situation though.

This window has been so depressing precisely because it's a carbon copy of previous ones. They seem incapable of learning from previous mistakes We needed good players in early but, as usual, it hasn't happened. I'm fed-up with excuses about how hard it is and how they're working behind the scenes. They trot out the same nonsense every window whilst other clubs, supposedly with fewer resources, get on with signing folk.

I'm honestly starting to think that Lindsay and Hyland are completely out of their depth.

steakbake
22-01-2012, 08:07 AM
Entirely agree, Matty. I have absolutely no confidence in the ability/desire of those in charge to either change their thinking or do anything about our current situation though.

This window has been so depressing precisely because it's a carbon copy of previous ones. They seem incapable of learning from previous mistakes We needed good players in early but, as usual, it hasn't happened. I'm fed-up with excuses about how hard it is and how they're working behind the scenes. They trot out the same nonsense every window whilst other clubs, supposedly with fewer resources, get on with signing folk.

I'm honestly starting to think that Lindsay and Hyland are completely out of their depth.

"Starting" to think?

We're not run by serious football business people. We can't be.

Beefster
22-01-2012, 08:19 AM
"Starting" to think?

We're not run by serious football business people. We can't be.

Believe it or not, before now, I gave them the benefit of the doubt and generally just thought that they were just pig-headed and wouldn't deviate from the strategy that they had decided upon.

Now, with the continual management failures, repeated pattern of the transfer windows, seeming lack of any transfer intelligence/scouting, general lack of ideas in marketing/comms/customer retention and more, I'm coming around to the view that there isn't actually much of a strategy and that they are, in fact, just incapable.

EasterRoad4Ever
22-01-2012, 09:01 AM
:agree:

Hogg was hounded out of here for not being good enough, look what we have now.

Replacing rubbish with worse rubbish doesn't mean the original rubbish didn't need replaced.

TowerHibs
22-01-2012, 09:10 AM
Do we have any European players at all???? I'm trying to think if we have anyone who is not from Britain/Ireland???

Where is our scouting network?

Expecting Rain
22-01-2012, 09:23 AM
Believe it or not, before now, I gave them the benefit of the doubt and generally just thought that they were just pig-headed and wouldn't deviate from the strategy that they had decided upon.

Now, with the continual management failures, repeated pattern of the transfer windows, seeming lack of any transfer intelligence/scouting, general lack of ideas in marketing/comms/customer retention and more, I'm coming around to the view that there isn't actually much of a strategy and that they are, in fact, just incapable.

The 2nd paragraph sums it up especially the points regarding the seemingly lack of transfer intelligence or decent scouting. The great danger now apart from the threat of relegation is that the potential in some of our younger players is going to be ruined, certainly in their time at Hibs, if i was Booth, Hanlon or Wotherspoon i`d feel really disappointed and let down, Booth because he has bags of ability on the ball and should be deployed as a wide left midfielder, Hanlon because he is expected to be the finished article and hold together a non existent defence and Wotherspoon because he has been mucked about postionally and watched the return of Sproule curtail his development even further.

Andy74
22-01-2012, 09:26 AM
Fenlon said, in an official Hibs interview, in early January that we were close to 'a couple of things'. More than a fortnight later, we've brought someone in on loan from Norwich.

He said we were close to a couple of things and he'd know more in the next 48 hrs. He didn't say players would be signing within 48 hrs.

The twice yearly moan about how long transfers take is niaive. You just don't pop down the local shop and pick them out.

There's been a couple of interviews now pointing out that historically he knows what he wants and won't accept signing players that aren't the right quality just because they are there.

They have to be right as we can't go through this every window, releasing all the previous failures and looking for replacements.

He was almost without a full squad right up to the start of his last season, refused to be rushed and finished 5th with a total budget if less than 250k.

I think it's pathetic that PF is being criticised half way through a window.

Doyle looks a cracking signing by the way so more of that quality would be welcome.

BEEJ
22-01-2012, 10:34 AM
This window has been so depressing precisely because it's a carbon copy of previous ones. They seem incapable of learning from previous mistakes We needed good players in early but, as usual, it hasn't happened.

I'm fed-up with excuses about how hard it is and how they're working behind the scenes. They trot out the same nonsense every window whilst other clubs, supposedly with fewer resources, get on with signing folk.
:top marks

If ever they had to break with tradition and do things fast, it was in this transfer window. I suspect the mounting cost of having to release players early from their contracts this season has caused them to think twice about the terms offered both for and to any new arrivals.

It's false economy where we are currently headed. We are sleep-walking into the First Division.

Scouse Hibee
22-01-2012, 10:40 AM
Fenlon said, in an official Hibs interview, in early January that we were close to 'a couple of things'. More than a fortnight later, we've brought someone in on loan from Norwich.

Relegation and the 1st Division being those couple of things!

I hope Pat gets the support from the board to implement his rescue plan because at the moment we are floundering and I'm not sure we can tread water for ever.

Beefster
22-01-2012, 10:50 AM
The twice yearly moan about how long transfers take is niaive. You just don't pop down the local shop and pick them out.

Absolutely. Especially when you're not willing paying a fee. However....

January doesn't just creep up on Hibs, jump out and say "Boo, I'm here". Considering the mess that we're in, it wasn't beyond the wit of man to have done a lot of work pre-window and had targets lined up (beyond Doyle). We're in the same position as usual - getting folk in on trial. You don't ask someone to come in on trial if you've previously done your homework, watched them extensively and identified them as the man to improve the team.

There comes a point and a situation where you can't keep defending the club's methods in recruiting players. This, IMHO, is the point.

PaulSmith
22-01-2012, 11:32 AM
Absolutely. Especially when you're not willing paying a fee. However....

January doesn't just creep up on Hibs, jump out and say "Boo, I'm here". Considering the mess that we're in, it wasn't beyond the wit of man to have done a lot of work pre-window and had targets lined up (beyond Doyle). We're in the same position as usual - getting folk in on trial. You don't ask someone to come in on trial if you've previously done your homework, watched them extensively and identified them as the man to improve the team.

There comes a point and a situation where you can't keep defending the club's methods in recruiting players. This, IMHO, is the point.

Spot on, for me it's either the the football management at the club not being able to identify targets or the Board being unable to deliver them.

Personally I have no doubt it's the latter.

Heckys Wheel
22-01-2012, 12:45 PM
:agree:

Hogg was hounded out of here for not being good enough, look what we have now.

The defense is gantin'. Bring back Dave Beaumont and Derek Anderson.

Greenblood70
22-01-2012, 12:54 PM
Entirely agree, Matty. I have absolutely no confidence in the ability/desire of those in charge to either change their thinking or do anything about our current situation though.

This window has been so depressing precisely because it's a carbon copy of previous ones. They seem incapable of learning from previous mistakes We needed good players in early but, as usual, it hasn't happened. I'm fed-up with excuses about how hard it is and how they're working behind the scenes. They trot out the same nonsense every window whilst other clubs, supposedly with fewer resources, get on with signing folk.

I'm honestly starting to think that Lindsay and Hyland are completely out of their depth.

:agree::agree: Have no confidence in either of them.

Andy74
22-01-2012, 12:57 PM
Spot on, for me it's either the the football management at the club not being able to identify targets or the Board being unable to deliver them.

Personally I have no doubt it's the latter.
How does that fit with CC bringing in a host of players he has previously worked with or targeted? Same with Hughes. Same with Mixu.

It's clear to me that CC in particular just didn't pick the right players.

truehibernian
22-01-2012, 01:02 PM
:agree::agree: Have no confidence in either of them.

I said at the time of Calderwood's sacking, we should have also binned Scott and Fyfe and taken on Alex Miller as Director of Football. Intelligent man, lives and breathes football, fantastic contacts in the game and very easy to negotiate with. Knows Hibernian inside and out.

Coupled with the fact his son (Greg) is now Head of Performance with the SFA Football Academy (here in Edinburgh) , we could also have tapped in (pardon the pun) to any young talent who attend these expanding schools.

BEEJ
22-01-2012, 01:15 PM
It's clear to me that CC in particular just didn't pick the right players.
Despite your use of 'in particular', none of his 'picks' were in the back four yesterday.

Sir David Gray
22-01-2012, 01:26 PM
Entirely agree, Matty. I have absolutely no confidence in the ability/desire of those in charge to either change their thinking or do anything about our current situation though.

This window has been so depressing precisely because it's a carbon copy of previous ones. They seem incapable of learning from previous mistakes We needed good players in early but, as usual, it hasn't happened. I'm fed-up with excuses about how hard it is and how they're working behind the scenes. They trot out the same nonsense every window whilst other clubs, supposedly with fewer resources, get on with signing folk.

I'm honestly starting to think that Lindsay and Hyland are completely out of their depth.

This, I totally agree with.

The board should have resigned after the shambolic way that they handled the Calderwood situation last summer, as soon as it became clear that they had made a massive mistake in standing by him they should have stood down.

I have no belief in the ability of the board and I stated this some months ago.

However, I don't agree that Fenlon deserves any criticism at the moment. He arrived on the 25th November, that means he had about five weeks to prepare for the January window opening. In that time, he would have had to assess the squad, see who he wanted to keep, identify which positions he wanted to strengthen, then go out and try to identify specific players he wanted to try and sign.

He mentioned a couple of weeks ago how he had a few targets in mind and the club was in negotiations with one or two of them. However he also mentioned that he was finding it difficult to encourage those players to come to a club that is possibly going to be playing first division football in six months' time.

I am not surprised by this in the slightest and yesterday's result, coupled with the result from Rugby Park will have done nothing to help that cause.

Beefster
22-01-2012, 01:33 PM
This, I totally agree with.

The board should have resigned after the shambolic way that they handled the Calderwood situation last summer, as soon as it became clear that they had made a massive mistake in standing by him they should have stood down.

I have no belief in the ability of the board and I stated this some months ago.

However, I don't agree that Fenlon deserves any criticism at the moment. He arrived on the 25th November, that means he had about five weeks to prepare for the January window opening. In that time, he would have had to assess the squad, see who he wanted to keep, identify which positions he wanted to strengthen, then go out and try to identify specific players he wanted to try and sign.

He mentioned a couple of weeks ago how he had a few targets in mind and the club was in negotiations with one or two of them. However he also mentioned that he was finding it difficult to encourage those players to come to a club that is possibly going to be playing first division football in six months' time.

I am not surprised by this in the slightest and yesterday's result, coupled with the result from Rugby Park will have done nothing to help that cause.

That's part of my point. If we had a scouting operation of any note, we wouldn't have to solely rely on each new manager to identify players. He'd decide what position he wanted to recruit for and, if he didn't have someone specific in mind, the scouting head would be able to present him with a well-researched list of suitable players.

That's not a criticism of Fenlon. It's a criticism of Lindsay.

Spike Mandela
22-01-2012, 01:42 PM
How does that fit with CC bringing in a host of players he has previously worked with or targeted? Same with Hughes. Same with Mixu.

It's clear to me that CC in particular just didn't pick the right players.

None of us will ever know how far down their target lists we had to go before getting players the board could afford/sanction/entice to the club.

BEEJ
22-01-2012, 01:48 PM
He mentioned a couple of weeks ago how he had a few targets in mind and the club was in negotiations with one or two of them. However he also mentioned that he was finding it difficult to encourage those players to come to a club that is possibly going to be playing first division football in six months' time.

I am not surprised by this in the slightest and yesterday's result, coupled with the result from Rugby Park will have done nothing to help that cause.
And yet the two players that the Pars have brought in did not seem too bothered by their 12th position in the SPL and, by all accounts, they have already made a significant impact going by yesterday's performance.

Doesn't seem impossible then? :confused:

To be clear, I don't believe this is Fenlon's fault.

Sir David Gray
22-01-2012, 02:09 PM
And yet the two players that the Pars have brought in did not seem too bothered by their 12th position in the SPL and, by all accounts, they have already made a significant impact going by yesterday's performance.

Doesn't seem impossible then? :confused:

To be clear, I don't believe this is Fenlon's fault.

True, although one of those signings was a goalkeeper, which was done out of necessity due to the fact that Paul Gallacher is out for the season and their back up, Chris Smith, has been hopeless.

Mark Kerr was without a club after leaving Greece so he would probably just be thankful that he has managed to get another club.

I've no doubts that we could have signed a couple of players by now, in fact we could probably have signed a whole new squad.

But, given our recent history in bringing in absolute dross, I think it's important that the players we do bring in are good players and are actually going to improve the squad.

There's little point in signing players, just because they're available.

Gordy M
22-01-2012, 02:25 PM
True, although one of those signings was a goalkeeper, which was done out of necessity due to the fact that Paul Gallacher is out for the season and their back up, Chris Smith, has been hopeless.

Mark Kerr was without a club after leaving Greece so he would probably just be thankful that he has managed to get another club.

I've no doubts that we could have signed a couple of players by now, in fact we could probably have signed a whole new squad.

But, given our recent history in bringing in absolute dross, I think it's important that the players we do bring in are good players and are actually going to improve the squad.

There's little point in signing players, just because they're available.

Absolutely, i genuinely don't think there are a lot of good players available in January.when you look through the league not many teams have made many signings. We really need a couple of defenders and a defensive midfielder so the options are to wait until end of january and hope that some decent players are released, which is unlikely if they are decent, or make offers for players still in contract, and hope that their respective teams are willing to let them go. I just hope pat and the board can get something sorted soon!!

BEEJ
22-01-2012, 03:13 PM
But, given our recent history in bringing in absolute dross, I think it's important that the players we do bring in are good players and are actually going to improve the squad.

There's little point in signing players, just because they're available.
FH, we hear this trotted out in every January window.

Last January we waited (some of us in frustration) until nearer the end of the window to see new additions to the squad; only to find that a year on and we're shipping out these same players just as fast as we can.

So as 'patience' has patently not been rewarded in recent years, it's hard to summon it up again now in our current predicament.

Stevie Reid
22-01-2012, 04:14 PM
Billy Brown said in the interview exactly what I said to my mates during the game, which is of all the shockers I've witnessed at ER over the years, their second goal was the biggest I've ever witnessed - it also was a real choker because it was the moment that convinced me that we are going down unless we get a whole new back four in.

God knows was Stephens was thinking about for their second goal - he had shown phenomenal composure earlier in the game to pull off a Cruyff turn on the the line and clear the ball after Brown had saved from a Sandaza one on one, he could so easily have panicked and scored an own goal. Whether that was a factor in him being too casual for his disastrous mistake I don't know, but unfortuntely we cannot afford to let a young lad like him make the other mistakes that he inevitably will make as part of his football development, for the rest of this season.

Booth cannot tackle or head a ball, and is therefore never a defender in a million years - he does however possess good technical ability, and scored a superb goal, and if he is to have a future in the game it can be in one position only, left midfield. I am equally as perplexed as others who question why we signed a right back and do not play him there - Hart was our best defender by a mile yesterday, and whilst I'm compelled to give him the benefit of the doubt about his poor header for the 3rd due to the windy conditions, he was still culpable. The ball should never be allowed to get across to the most dangerous man on the park so easily though, and Hanlon unbelievable allowed him to get a shot away on the only side that he could score in (Hanlon's stronger side).

Don't get me wrong, Saints were well worth their win yesterday, but little things are going against us at the moment (Motherwell abandonment, Aberdeen penalty) - I was convinced that Croft should have been sent off for his challenge when I saw it yesterday, and BBC seemed to agree, I will see it later on the highlights. He stayed on, and then got a very lucky break to get the first goal (though he did take it well). Not getting the rub of the green + awful defending will equal relegation, unless we do something about our situation immediately.

Very strange that in his first two games as manager against Rangers and Aberdeen we barely conceded a chance in either game, looking fairly solid at the back, whilst threatening very little going forward - yet now we carry a real threat going forward, but the biggest threat is to ourselves due to our suicidal defending. I remember thinking that our forward line was really quite decent back in 1998 when we were relegated, but they weren't enough - a quick look back shows that we went down after scoring 38 goals in 36 games, so far we have scored 24 in 23 this season. Our back four (after McLeish came in) when we went down was way stronger than the shambles that we have now, and indeed we have conceded more goals per game this season so far than we did in 1997-98. We cannot defend throw ins and set pieces whilst offering zero threat from them ourselves. The writing is most definitely on the wall unless we act decisively in the next week - and there will be no Latapys or Sauzees to be signed if we are relegated this time.

It's quite hard to take seeing Ross County perform so well since Adams left us - it's absolutely sickening to see Calderwood slip into another good assistant manager's job after the brutal state he left us in. I said earlier in the season that his time at Hibs could have a very profound effect on us for years to come - I very much hope that Fenlon can save us.