US Marines

[DaveF]

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-asia-16534289

Not great, but I did find it somewhat ironic when a Taliban spokesman accused them of a 'wild act'.

So, indiscriminant bombings, beheading's and brutal repression of women are not at all wild........

[hibsbollah]

Victor Pallson was crucified on here for less:violin:

[Hibrandenburg]

The Yanks do have some disturbed individuals among their ranks.

These sickos have now ensured that the Taliban get a few thousand more recruits for the cause and will ultimately be responsible for the deaths of allied soldiers. ****wits.

[Gatecrasher]

its not just the yanks been up to this stuff, im sure there will be plenty of examples from army's through out the world. Yes its wrong but the Americans aint alone. It wasn't long ago this was in the news http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/asia/afghanistan/8688866/Scottish-soldier-sliced-off-the-fingers-of-dead-Taliban.html

[bighairyfaeleith]

shocking if true which it does appear to be given the americans condeming it themselves.

[Dashing Bob S]

I saw a bunch of US Marines in Kennedy airport last week. Was surprised to see such a bunch of small, skinny, puny specimens, I was expecting Stallone/Willis sorts, but this lot looked like they couldn't fight sleep.

[bighairyfaeleith]

I saw a bunch of US Marines in Kennedy airport last week. Was surprised to see such a bunch of small, skinny, puny specimens, I was expecting Stallone/Willis sorts, but this lot looked like they couldn't fight sleep.

I remember meeting a group of them at a strip joint on the gold coast in oz, I didn't look at them much.

[Mibbes Aye]

I remember meeting a group of them at a strip joint on the gold coast in oz, I didn't look at them much.

Think that you probably took the right approach.

Focus on your work and don't get distracted by the customers :agree:

[Betty Boop]

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-asia-16534289

Not great, but I did find it somewhat ironic when a Taliban spokesman accused them of a 'wild act'.

So, indiscriminant bombings, beheading's and brutal repression of women are not at all wild........

Oh come on ,you know it's only a few bad apples. The good ones pose for pictures with their victims, cover up botched bombing raids, bomb wedding parties and murder civilians, collect body parts and keep them as trophies, etc. etc. etc. Real national heroes !

[Dinkydoo]

Not condoning taking a leak over a dead body but these were Taliban fighters and not just ordinary Afghan citizens.

The act in itself is disgusting but I'll save myself the bother of being outraged; when you actively support a terrorist group who take great enjoyment in the fact that they managed to fly two ****ing planes into the world trade centre, your human rights are somewhat forfeited, IMO.

[steakbake]

I remember meeting a group of them at a strip joint on the gold coast in oz, I didn't look at them much.

I sometimes think that when I see squaddies. A lot of them would look more comfortable in trackies and a hoody doing that really creepy thing really chavvy neds do with their hands stuffed down the front of their trousers. The gormless genital clutch, I think it's called.

[Beefster]

This sort of thing (or far worse) has always gone on in conflict whether it was centuries ago, the World Wars or whenever. I don't really see it being that big a deal tbh. It's not like they've been caught torturing, raping or something on that scale.

If the Taliban killed a US Marine and took the body, would they be treating it with the utmost respect? Unlikely.

[steakbake]

This sort of thing (or far worse) has always gone on in conflict whether it was centuries ago, the World Wars or whenever. I don't really see it being that big a deal tbh. It's not like they've been caught torturing, raping or something on that scale.

If the Taliban killed a US Marine and took the body, would they be treating it with the utmost respect? Unlikely.

No, the US has never tortured people.

It's a broad sweeping statement which gets us nowhere but this is man's inhumanity to man at work. War dehumanises, desensitises and devalues us all.

What the Taliban do or might do is irrelevant. The west is in Afghanistan to impose our view of civilization and our values. The assumption is that this view is the fairest, most stable and most free.

If our moral code is to piss on the corpses of our slaughtered enemies and not think its a big deal, it shows you what a ****ty choice the Afghan people have: which version of civilisation brutalises us least?

[Future17]

This sort of thing (or far worse) has always gone on in conflict whether it was centuries ago, the World Wars or whenever. I don't really see it being that big a deal tbh. It's not like they've been caught torturing, raping or something on that scale.

If the Taliban killed a US Marine and took the body, would they be treating it with the utmost respect? Unlikely.

I'd agree with this to an extent.

There is a glorification of the military in this country (and other countries like the US) which, while partially deserved, is taken so far by some that they practically canonise members of the armed forces. Away from the tales of heroism, sacrifice and the pictures of soldiers being reunited with their families after a long tour of duty, the reality is that the majority of soldiers are in the military, at least in part, because they are not suited to civilian life for whatever reason. One of those reason is the mentality that gives rise to behaviour like these marines have been accused of.

I think we all know this sort of thing goes on in our own military and the majority of us are happy to live in pretend ignorance of it because, when our Government decides our country needs a presence in a warzone, we know we can send the army that we have who will do the job none of the rest of us would want to.


No, the US has never tortured people.

It's a broad sweeping statement which gets us nowhere but this is man's inhumanity to man at work. War dehumanises, desensitises and devalues us all.

What the Taliban do or might do is irrelevant. The west is in Afghanistan to impose our view of civilization and our values. The assumption is that this view is the fairest, most stable and most free.

If our moral code is to piss on the corpses of our slaughtered enemies and not think its a big deal, it shows you what a ****ty choice the Afghan people have: which version of civilisation brutalises us least?

Regardless of why you believe the UK/US is in Afghanistan, the idea that we would impose "our view of civilisation and our values" and "our moral code" through waging a war at massive humanitarian cost to that nation is paradoxical to the point of being ridiculous.

[steakbake]

Regardless of why you believe the UK/US is in Afghanistan, the idea that we would impose "our view of civilisation and our values" and "our moral code" through waging a war at massive humanitarian cost to that nation is paradoxical to the point of being ridiculous.

I very much agree with your first point about the canonisation of our armed forces.

If I've understood the point you've made correctly, then yes, it is completely ridiculous. It is absurd that we're bombing people and occupying their country in order to give them a slice of our civilisation: or Operation "Enduring Freedom" as the mission title is. But isn't that exactly what is happening? Why else are we there? For their own good?

The fact of the matter is that the biggest security 'problem' in the region is not in fact Afghanistan, but is Pakistan. Here's a country which is struggling to contain its own islamist insurgency, where the armed forces are pulling more strings than the elected officials and where many of those who orchestrate the various 'terrorist' networks across the world are relatively free indeed, allowed, to operate. That's before we even look at the supply routes of weaponry, manpower and military assistance being given to the Taliban fighters in Afghanistan. Sections of Pakistan are no longer under control of the Pakistani government - they are in the hands of the kind of religious militias that "we" went into Afghanistan to eradicate in the first place.

We're in it up to our necks. Still, at least we're on a global stage and able to influence the world.

[Hibrandenburg]

I sometimes think that when I see squaddies. A lot of them would look more comfortable in trackies and a hoody doing that really creepy thing really chavvy neds do with their hands stuffed down the front of their trousers. The gormless genital clutch, I think it's called.
That has to be the most sweepingly generalising piece of piss that I've read on this board to date. Congratulations, mission accomplished. You've managed to insult someone.

[Future17]

I very much agree with your first point about the canonisation of our armed forces.

If I've understood the point you've made correctly, then yes, it is completely ridiculous. It is absurd that we're bombing people and occupying their country in order to give them a slice of our civilisation: or Operation "Enduring Freedom" as the mission title is. But isn't that exactly what is happening? Why else are we there? For their own good?

The fact of the matter is that the biggest security 'problem' in the region is not in fact Afghanistan, but is Pakistan. Here's a country which is struggling to contain its own islamist insurgency, where the armed forces are pulling more strings than the elected officials and where many of those who orchestrate the various 'terrorist' networks across the world are relatively free indeed, allowed, to operate. That's before we even look at the supply routes of weaponry, manpower and military assistance being given to the Taliban fighters in Afghanistan. Sections of Pakistan are no longer under control of the Pakistani government - they are in the hands of the kind of religious militias that "we" went into Afghanistan to eradicate in the first place.

We're in it up to our necks. Still, at least we're on a global stage and able to influence the world.

I believe one of the reasons, and probably the main reason, we went to war in Afghanistan was to combat the threat of Al-Qaeda, whose influence was being allowed to grow unchecked by the Taleban. AQ in Afghanistan was essentially "mission control" for AQ throughout the world.

In terms of that objective, we have succeeded to a large extent, but it was never going to be a complete victory and, as you point out, we now have elements of the original problem having simply shifted location. There has also, obviously, been a massive humanitarian cost to the Afghanis and to our forces. However, that shouldn't distract from what has been achieved.

You are, of course, quite right that Pakistan is now the problem, however it is a very different and vastly more complex problem than Afghanistan was and will, accordingly, need a different strategy.

[johnbc70]

Think that you probably took the right approach.

Focus on your work and don't get distracted by the customers :agree:

Funniest post for a long time, brilliant.

[Betty Boop]

Two British soldiers have been arrested, after allegations of child abuse in Afghanistan. Deary me !

http://news.sky.com/home/uk-news/article/16151397

[Beefster]

No, the US has never tortured people.

I don't think I claimed that, did I?

That statement is a bit like me getting caught for speeding but someone saying "Jail the ******* because a lot of other Scottish men have committed murder".

They urinated on a corpse. The corpse of a fighter who had been pretty dedicated to killing them. I don't see that as that big a deal (yet I'd rather that they didn't), sorry.

[Future17]

Two British soldiers have been arrested, after allegations of child abuse in Afghanistan. Deary me !

http://news.sky.com/home/uk-news/article/16151397

Not nice to hear. Innocent until proven guilty though.

[Sir David Gray]

Two British soldiers have been arrested, after allegations of child abuse in Afghanistan. Deary me !

http://news.sky.com/home/uk-news/article/16151397

Innocent until proven otherwise, no? :dunno:

I'm sure they'll get what they deserve, if it's found that they have been abusing children.

[Dashing Bob S]

I don't think I claimed that, did I?

That statement is a bit like me getting caught for speeding but someone saying "Jail the ******* because a lot of other Scottish men have committed murder".

They urinated on a corpse. The corpse of a fighter who had been pretty dedicated to killing them. I don't see that as that big a deal (yet I'd rather that they didn't), sorry.
Pretty stupid if their intention is to win hearts and minds to the cause of freedom and democracy.

[Beefster]

Pretty stupid if their intention is to win hearts and minds to the cause of freedom and democracy.

Absolutely, although I'm not sure that it's really going to affect the stance of the Taliban and their supporters.

I'm not defending pissing on corpses btw. Just saying that it's not the crime of the century that some would have us believe. Folk can piss on me as much as they want when I'm dead - I'd just prefer it if they didn't do it whilst I'm living (Mrs Beefster excepted).

[steakbake]

Absolutely, although I'm not sure that it's really going to affect the stance of the Taliban and their supporters.

I'm not defending pissing on corpses btw. Just saying that it's not the crime of the century that some would have us believe. Folk can piss on me as much as they want when I'm dead - I'd just prefer it if they didn't do it whilst I'm living (Mrs Beefster excepted).

:faf:

[HibsMax]

I saw this when it first came out. I watched the video on YouTube and it doesn't even look like they're pissing, just going through the motions. Perhaps there is a clearer video out there, or a different video?

It's not a smart thing to do when you're trying to take the moral high ground. It's even sillier to record it and for it to end up online (again!).

[Future17]

Folk can piss on me as much as they want when I'm dead - I'd just prefer it if they didn't do it whilst I'm living (Mrs Beefster excepted).


I saw this when it first came out. I watched the video on YouTube and it doesn't even look like they're pissing, just going through the motions. Perhaps there is a clearer video out there, or a different video?

Maybe you two should start a club? :greengrin

[Beefster]

Maybe you two should start a club? :greengrin

I've already told Max that he's not getting his hands on Mrs Beefster's videos!

[--------]

Innocent until proven otherwise, no? :dunno:

I'm sure they'll get what they deserve, if it's found that they have been abusing children.


Aye, maybe. A fearless and searching investigation like the one into the deaths at Deepcut? :rolleyes:

On the subject of the OP, I always think the US Marine Corps is a bit like an English football/cricket/rugby team - they're nothing like as good as they think they are.

As an old friend of mine who encountered them in Korea used to say - "full of piss and wind".

[Dashing Bob S]

I sometimes think that when I see squaddies. A lot of them would look more comfortable in trackies and a hoody doing that really creepy thing really chavvy neds do with their hands stuffed down the front of their trousers. The gormless genital clutch, I think it's called.

Of course, but they didn't have tracksuits and hoodies in WW1 and WW2, which is instructive in telling us how underemployed working-class kids have been demonized. All they need to do is swap their hoodies for uniform and they become heroic defenders of freedom.

Incidentally, there is a documentary currently tearing up the Sundance Film Festival about rape in the US military. The victims (mainly but not exclusively women, have come forward to tell their story) and women are 16 times more likely to be raped than civilian women, eight times more likely to be harmed by a solider in their own army than by an opponent, and only 8% of claims are investigated and 2% prosecuted.

So, to be fair to the US soldiers, its not just dead Arabs that they are pissing over.

[Dashing Bob S]

Here is a link.

http://latimesblogs.latimes.com/movies/2012/01/sundance-documentary-sheds-light-on-rape-in-the-military.html

The pentagon have conceded that the points are accurate (chilling a US military spokesman said it probably underestimates the scale of the problem) and is reviewing its procedures.

[The Green Goblin]

The really funny (not haha) thing about this whole story is the fact that the outrage is about them urinating on corpses, rather than the fact that they have killed them in the first place.

Kill people: fair enough
Piss on their dead bodies: outrageous

GG