Amnesty - End the booing and negativity at ER

[spike220]

As fans there are some things we cant change and there are somethings we can change, here is a rather outlandish idea, why don't we try and change something we can have direct impact on very quickly. Stop the booing of our own team and stop any abuse of our own players, who would want to sign or stay for around for the abuse dished out (by a minority most the time). A good way to is to stifle the abuse is with chants when you hear it taking place, this way you don't risk getting a smack in the gob telling someone to shut up. Buts if someone near starts piping up shouting abuse, just start chanting hibees, hibees at the top of your voice to drown them out. We need to be proactive, this is our club!!!

Below are the thoughts of another poster I have taken form another thread 'ArgileHibby' was the author I think:

".........You're correct the booing fans are not THE problem but they are definitely ONE of the many problems at ER just now. It is however one of the easier problems to overcome if the fans were firstly willing to accept they are part of the overall problem and then simply make a decision now to stop the negativity and start encouraging the team regardless of what is happening on the pitch. I'd be very interested to see what improvements there would be if we, the fans, introduced a self imposed amnesty and basically cut out the negative reaction to everything that happens on the pitch that is less than 100% in Hibs favour. There is nothing to lose by cutting out the booing, jeering etc and you never know it might just see the team and therefore the fans gain something.

There is a lack of quality in the team and some of the players are less able to handle the criticism than others. Correcting that lack of quality and inner strength costs money, changing the way the fans react costs nothing and while it may not result in us going on long winning streak and reaching / winning cup finals I do believe that it would see a positive return in terms of performance and points gained. As I said nothing to lose in trying it is there?"

I thought this is such a well made point it deserves its own thread.

GGTTH

:flag::flag::flag:

[HibbiesandtheBaddies]

As fans there are some things we cant change and there are somethings we can change, here is a rather outlandish idea, why don't we try and change something we can have direct impact on very quickly. Stop the booing of our own team and stop any abuse of our own players, who would want to sign or stay for around for the abuse dished out (by a minority most the time). A good way to is to stifle the abuse is with chants when you hear it taking place, this way you don't risk getting a smack in the gob telling someone to shut up. Buts if someone near starts piping up shouting abuse, just start chanting hibees, hibees at the top of your voice to drown them out. We need to be proactive, this is our club!!!

Below are the thoughts of another poster I have taken form another thread 'ArgileHibby' was the author I think:

".........You're correct the booing fans are not THE problem but they are definitely ONE of the many problems at ER just now. It is however one of the easier problems to overcome if the fans were firstly willing to accept they are part of the overall problem and then simply make a decision now to stop the negativity and start encouraging the team regardless of what is happening on the pitch. I'd be very interested to see what improvements there would be if we, the fans, introduced a self imposed amnesty and basically cut out the negative reaction to everything that happens on the pitch that is less than 100% in Hibs favour. There is nothing to lose by cutting out the booing, jeering etc and you never know it might just see the team and therefore the fans gain something.

There is a lack of quality in the team and some of the players are less able to handle the criticism than others. Correcting that lack of quality and inner strength costs money, changing the way the fans react costs nothing and while it may not result in us going on long winning streak and reaching / winning cup finals I do believe that it would see a positive return in terms of performance and points gained. As I said nothing to lose in trying it is there?"

I thought this is such a well made point it deserves its own thread.

GGTTH

:flag::flag::flag:




:agree:

If you want to boo, show a bit of constraint and shut the f*** up.

[Jones28]

Agree 100% :agree:

In times like this surely it would be far better to have 6000 fans at the games but who fully get behind the team rather than 8-9000 with negativity raining down from the stands.

And if you're not there to support the team then why bother? Cos you're certainly not there for the quality football :wink:

[Viva_Palmeiras]

And think about the children ;)

Actually im serious if we want to encourage kids to come booing is best left to the Panto

[Viva_Palmeiras]

What about a unity/amnesty tshirt thats a visible demonstration of this worthy cause?

[spike220]

What about a unity/amnesty tshirt thats a visible demonstration of this worthy cause?

Great idea, or perhaps an armband of particular colour, say yellow or white. That way anyone could just use any rag lying around to show thier solidarity with the cause.

[Fergus52]

Completely agree, best post I've seen in a while.

If in say a month or so it hasn't caught on, try again. Some fans will never change but the more that do the better we will be.

When we went on a half decent run last season it was when the singing section was at it's best and the majority of the fans were being positive. Co-incidence, no?

[EasterRoad4Ever]

Agree 100% :agree:

In times like this surely it would be far better to have 6000 fans at the games but who fully get behind the team rather than 8-9000 with negativity raining down from the stands.

And if you're not there to support the team then why bother? Cos you're certainly not there for the quality football :wink:

I think you'll find that a lot of season ticket holders would happily take a refund now - if Hibs had the guts to offer a partial refund. But having paid out £££ in support of their club and in the expectation that things can only improve, they find themselves having to watch utter dross every second week. IMHO if people had not bought season tickets, you would have your 5000 crowds at many Hibs games.

Petrie and the club need to gear up for 3000 ST holders for next season.

[Wembley67]

Great idea, or perhaps an armband of particular colour, say yellow or white. That way anyone could just use any rag lying around to show thier solidarity with the cause.

Is this a big pee take? I appreciate booing can be detrimental to the players confidence but an armband to show solidarity?? Are you tommy Sheridan?

[Beefster]

Agree 100% :agree:

In times like this surely it would be far better to have 6000 fans at the games but who fully get behind the team rather than 8-9000 with negativity raining down from the stands.

And if you're not there to support the team then why bother? Cos you're certainly not there for the quality football :wink:

I've never booed Hibs but if I do love when folk say 'why bother going to games' as if money wasn't even an issue to the club. £400 a year minimum from a supporter does more good for the club than that supporter booing could ever harm it.

[hibiedude]

I've never booed Hibs but if I do love when folk say 'why bother going to games' as if money wasn't even an issue to the club. £400 a year minimum from a supporter does more good for the club than that supporter booing could ever harm it.

I would love to live in the same world as all these positives people it must be great.

They want you to hand ove ££££ and keep your month shut and just accept whats on offer. :greengrin

[RIP]

I've never booed Hibs but if I do love when folk say 'why bother going to games' as if money wasn't even an issue to the club. £400 a year minimum from a supporter does more good for the club than that supporter booing could ever harm it.

I think Beefster has a fair point here. Nevertheless the OP was assuming we ST's had already paid our £400 in which case we have a choice of:

Going to every remaining home game this season and being as close to 100% positive as we can
Going to every remaining home game this season and if we can't get behind the team then at least kill the shouting and booing
Staying away until the team are performing better or the pain subsides


If we can make supporting Hibs a positive experience again, even in these dark times, we will prove to ourselves that we can show character and spirit. This club is much, much bigger than the current board, manager or squad of players.

What about changing our signatures until the end of the season?

[Phil MaGlass]

I would love to live in the same world as all these positives people it must be great.

They want you to hand ove ££££ and keep your month shut and just accept whats on offer. :greengrin

If the team are rank rotten and havent tried (in my eyes) they get bood,always have, but I have to agree with the main poster, we :shocked:should be more positive in the coming weeks, get behind the team. My team in The Hague, when they are going through a bad patch, and trust me thats been for years, the support has been fantastic, always behind the team and the club when at the game, outside after a game they will show displeasure with the board and club by demonstrating in LARGE numbers. The club talk to the fans, the fans feel part and parcel of the club and the players, honest to god are treated like heroes even when they lose, as long as they give 100%.
Im going off track a wee bit, but Hibs have been trying in the last weeks, they just dont have what it takes at the moment,PF has just taken over, lets get behind him,he needs it, the team need it, the club needs it and we need it.
Wouldnt it be good to have the fans to compliment the stadium, the new stadium is inspiring we the fans could be just as inspiring.You would be surprised what difference a positive atmosphere would have in a great stadium, with an average team.

[RIP]

I would love to live in the same world as all these positive people it must be great.

They want you to hand ove ££££ and keep your mouth shut and just accept whats on offer.

Nah mate you need to see people as they really are. Not positive people - only active supporters.

I have found that the folk who are most fanatical about the team are often the most ardent advocates for change at Hibs. We love our club with a passion. That's why we can support the team on the park while being actively critical of management off it. Go to the forums, talk to the board in BTG, lobby, be heard, support the team, raise their spirits, build their low confidence.

[Hibbyradge]

I've never booed Hibs but if I do love when folk say 'why bother going to games' as if money wasn't even an issue to the club. £400 a year minimum from a supporter does more good for the club than that supporter booing could ever harm it.

I can't agree with that.

Occasional disquiet can be brushed off, I'm sure, but the constant barrage of abuse we hear at Easter Road it surely self defeating .

Whilst giving the club money does indeed help it, regular booing will harm the confidence and therefore the performance, of the team, regardless of how much we pay them or paid for them .

[hibiedude]

Nah mate you need to see people as they really are. Not positive people - only active supporters.

I have found that the folk who are most fanatical about the team are often the most ardent advocates for change at Hibs. We love our club with a passion. That's why we can support the team on the park while being actively critical of management off it. Go to the forums, talk to the board in BTG, lobby, be heard, support the team, raise their spirits, build their low confidence.

I love my club but having seen us hit rock bottom over 3-4 seasons fans are now saying enough is enough - we have a new manager let's see what position we find ourselves in the coming months now the transfer window is open.

8000 fans going into a group hug isn't the answer I'm afraid our problems go a lot deeper.

[spike220]

I can't agree with that.

Occasional disquiet can be brushed off, I'm sure, but the constant barrage of abuse we hear at Easter Road it surely self defeating .

Whilst giving the club money does indeed help it, regular booing will harm the confidence and therefore the performance, of the team, regardless of how much we pay them or paid for them .

Aye right on point, It is like saying here is 400quid so I can come shout abuse at you every other week and boo you, and if I cant abuse you whenever I like I want a refund. In what kind of sick parallel universe does anyone with good intentions think it's okay to boo and abuse anyone who is trying to do their job.

I think you'd be better off spending you 400quid on pantomime tickets if you want to boo, then you can really get it out your system.

The key point is other fans are paying good money too, why should they listen to this negativity?

GGTTH

Will be changing my signature once I figure out how.

[Beefster]

I can't agree with that.

Occasional disquiet can be brushed off, I'm sure, but the constant barrage of abuse we hear at Easter Road it surely self defeating .

Whilst giving the club money does indeed help it, regular booing will harm the confidence and therefore the performance, of the team, regardless of how much we pay them or paid for them .

I think the abuse is exaggerated, to be honest. You get randoms shouting abuse, yes, but that's not a new phenomenon. Any booing tends to take place either at half-time or full-time and involves a minority of the support (irrespective of how it sounds). Yet, when the team show a bit of drive and desire (e.g. early second half on Monday) the entire support gets behind them.

If it was the choice between 2,000 booing when we play poorly or those 2,000 just not renewing their STs next year, I know what the club would choose.

Incidentally, I'm not disputing that abuse/booing can affect a player but this myth seems to be taking hold that the Hibs support at home games are the worst ever. It's nonsense.

[Kato]

I think the abuse is exaggerated, to be honest. You get randoms shouting abuse, yes, but that's not a new phenomenon. Any booing tends to take place either at half-time or full-time and involves a minority of the support (irrespective of how it sounds). Yet, when the team show a bit of drive and desire (e.g. early second half on Monday) the entire support gets behind them.

If it was the choice between 2,000 booing when we play poorly or those 2,000 just not renewing their STs next year, I know what the club would choose.


The atmosphere and general demeanour at games is usually awful. It's not just the boos, it's the carps, snipes, cat-calls, roars of frustration at times. It's painful.


Incidentally, I'm not disputing that abuse/booing can affect a player but this myth seems to be taking hold that the Hibs support at home games are the worst ever. It's nonsense.

Might not be the worst ever but as a whole the fans at the moment aren't helping players confidence. It's not nonsense - it's happening.

[Mikey]

There's a definite upturn in the number of people who are willing to speak out against the constant barrage of negativity. There's a lot going on at Easter Road that the fans can't do anything about but stopping, or at least reducing, the booing and stream of negativity is something we can tackle.

The boo boys won't like it. They'll say they've paid their money and they'll play the "freedom of speech" card, but it's our club they're ripping to shreds.

[Beefster]

The atmosphere and general demeanour at games is usually awful. It's not just the boos, it's the carps, snipes, cat-calls, roars of frustration at times. It's painful.



Might not be the worst ever but as a whole the fans at the moment aren't helping players confidence. It's not nonsense - it's happening.

I'm not disputing that it's painful at times but folk react in different ways. I sit bored out of my tits, some folk lose the rag.

The myth is nonsense, IMHO. The current support is no better or worse than in previous spells of mediocrity.

Anyway, it's not going to be long before I'm being classed as a boo boy for even suggesting that it's not that bad so I'm stepping out of this now.

[Kato]

The myth is nonsense, IMHO. The current support is no better or worse than in previous spells of mediocrity.

OK but it didn't help then either. I remember under Blackley we had relegation dogfight and the fans helped win that by getting behind the players after months of grumbling. At the moment we've had years of grumbling.

The main thing is people are seeing for what it is. Something that helps the opposition as well as sapping our own players confidence. I had a mate over from Ireland for the game on Monday and at half time he said he thought the players could have done better but looked to have zero confidence, which isn't hard to spot - players thinking of going for interceptions then hesitating, simple passes being sent late.


Anyway, it's not going to be long before I'm being classed as a boo boy for even suggesting that it's not that bad so I'm stepping out of this now.

I don't think anyone's saying that, man. It needs to said though and I'm glad it' sbeing discussed.

[Thecat23]

I've finally given up caring. The place is honking with folk abusing players/each other and if i'm honest i'd rather sit watching soccer sat with a coupon on. I'd like to think i'm a positive person but Hibs just drain me. I want to watch football because i enjoy the sport, i've not seen a good football game at ER for as long as i care to remember. I'll always support Hibs but for me maybe it's my age, or I just have better things in life than to worry about a club that is going know were it's just made me wake up and see that Hibs are wasting my time. By the look of the crowds these days i'm not the only one. End of the day i still think a lot of fans are not going not just because the team is rubbish but are sick of some fans screaming and losing the rag.

[Brizo]

[QUOTE=Beefster;30 The myth is nonsense, IMHO. The current support is no better or worse than in previous spells of mediocrity./QUOTE]

:agree:

We have never had a support that backs the team 100% through thick and thin. Even in the rare good times certain players have been scapegoats and got pelters from a section of fans. Worst concentrated abuse of players was in fact back in the 70s and 80s likes of Benny Brazil , Hammy and Joe T. No player in recent times has gotten anything like that.

The atmosphere certainly in the East for the derby was very positive at least round me and we were still absolute p@sh. Atmosphere in ground at final home game of the old East terracing was incredible .... and we were absolute p@sh that day. Dont condone booing but dont believe any amount of positive standite vibes is gonna turn donkeys into thoroughbreeds. As for solidarity armbands:faf:

[Cropley10]

[QUOTE=Beefster;30 The myth is nonsense, IMHO. The current support is no better or worse than in previous spells of mediocrity./QUOTE]

:agree:

We have never had a support that backs the team 100% through thick and thin. Even in the rare good times certain players have been scapegoats and got pelters from a section of fans. Worst concentrated abuse of players was in fact back in the 70s and 80s likes of Benny Brazil , Hammy and Joe T. No player in recent times has gotten anything like that.

The atmosphere certainly in the East for the derby was very positive at least round me and we were still absolute p@sh. Atmosphere in ground at final home game of the old East terracing was incredible .... and we were absolute p@sh that day. Dont condone booing but dont believe any amount of positive standite vibes is gonna turn donkeys into thoroughbreeds. As for solidarity armbands:faf:

It's all the fans fault. If more fans turned up we'd be able to afford better players.

[bingo70]

I don't boo the players but they day we decide what our emotions are going to be before a ball is kicked the games a bogie for me, if someone's pish too right ill get annoyed and although I won't boo I certainly won't get all excited singing pish songs encouraging the pish player.

Maybe in an ideal world that's what a textbook fan should do, however, in a game full of emotion that's just not how it works.

The players just need to get better and all the cheerleading on the world is no going to influence that I'm afraid.

[Keith_M]

I don't boo the players but they day we decide what our emotions are going to be before a ball is kicked the games a bogie for me, if someone's pish too right ill get annoyed and although I won't boo I certainly won't get all excited singing pish songs encouraging the pish player.

Maybe in an ideal world that's what a textbook fan should do, however, in a game full of emotion that's just not how it works.

The players just need to get better and all the cheerleading on the world is no going to influence that I'm afraid.


But surely that's enough. If you don't feel like "singing pish songs and encouraging pish players", then that's your right. It's the negativity coming from the stands that is the main thing that (some) people want to put an end to. No matter what people say, I'm convinced it affects players.

[hibiedude]

the players we have are simply not good enough so all this talk about abuse and group hugs ain't going to change that.

I read a few weeks ago about some players in England who love the fans getting on their backs because it helps to motivate them when their getting abuse.

Some say our players have zero confidence I think it's more like zero quality to be honest.

I have confidence Pat Fenlon will change things for the better because that's the only way to stop fans giving abuse.

[Scouse Hibee]

Never have I read such drivel, FFS words fail me!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[Fergus52]

[QUOTE=Beefster;30 The myth is nonsense, IMHO. The current support is no better or worse than in previous spells of mediocrity./QUOTE]

:agree:

We have never had a support that backs the team 100% through thick and thin. Even in the rare good times certain players have been scapegoats and got pelters from a section of fans. Worst concentrated abuse of players was in fact back in the 70s and 80s likes of Benny Brazil , Hammy and Joe T. No player in recent times has gotten anything like that.

The atmosphere certainly in the East for the derby was very positive at least round me and we were still absolute p@sh. Atmosphere in ground at final home game of the old East terracing was incredible .... and we were absolute p@sh that day. Dont condone booing but dont believe any amount of positive standite vibes is gonna turn donkeys into thoroughbreeds. As for solidarity armbands:faf:

Are you being serious? Colin nish?

Fair enough at the end of jibs career it was deserved, but that was because he'd had all his confidence drained by a support never willing tom give him a chance

[Fergus52]

I don't boo the players but they day we decide what our emotions are going to be before a ball is kicked the games a bogie for me, if someone's pish too right ill get annoyed and although I won't boo I certainly won't get all excited singing pish songs encouraging the pish player.

Maybe in an ideal world that's what a textbook fan should do, however, in a game full of emotion that's just not how it works.

The players just need to get better and all the cheerleading on the world is no going to influence that I'm afraid.

That's where your wrong, the amount of good loud positive cheering can do is extremely underestimated by most of our support.

Look at booth, sodje and pallson, none of them have been that great, when they have played, this season. But in the second half of last season they were three of our best players; this was when they first came into the team and were getting the crowds full backing.

During one home game then, can't remember which, we had just conceded but instead of making the support moan, we began to sing even louder and the lift it gave the players was unreal.

[scuttle]

If you were to go to a pop concert and it was rotten,out of tune ,wrong or forgotten words etc ,im quite sure the majority would complain or moan about the qaulity,equally at a stage show or at the cinema,so why should supporters just sit there and be positive when whats on offer at the moment is dire.All it would take to stop all this negativity is a couple of good performances and wins.Hibs starting eleven its over to you

[Brizo]

[QUOTE=Brizo;3063211]

Are you being serious? Colin nish?

Fair enough at the end of jibs career it was deserved, but that was because he'd had all his confidence drained by a support never willing tom give him a chance

Yes I am being serious. Tortolano and the others I mentioned got it far worse than Nish. If you were going to games back then we'll have to agree to disagree. If you werent going to games back then , then your not really in a position to make the comparison.

[HibsMax]

All a person really needs to do is ask themselves one simple question:

"What benefit will come from my booing?"

Having actually seen my first game in the flesh for about a decade (ICT on 28.12) I can understand why people are pissed off but that is not the point. Is the booing justified? I would say it is because the performances have been woeful. But just because booing might be justified doesn't mean it's the smart thing to do. I am certain that the players are under no illusion about how bad they are as a team. I don't think they need to hear the boos to waken them up to that fact.

So in summary, are people who boo justified in their actions? Sure. Does it benefit anyone? Not a bit IMO. So unless someone can come up with a reason that booing is a GOOD thing, why do it at all other than to vent your own personal frustrations?

[BoltonHibee]

What if we went back to the slow stamping and the slow hand clap? That used to sound brilliant coming out of the old North and South stand

[blackpoolhibs]

I think we should give those who boo until xmas before saying they should be punted. :wink:

[HibsMax]

I don't boo the players but they day we decide what our emotions are going to be before a ball is kicked the games a bogie for me, if someone's pish too right ill get annoyed and although I won't boo I certainly won't get all excited singing pish songs encouraging the pish player.

Maybe in an ideal world that's what a textbook fan should do, however, in a game full of emotion that's just not how it works.

The players just need to get better and all the cheerleading on the world is no going to influence that I'm afraid.

Nobody says you have to get excited but why wouldn't you want to try and encourage the player or players who are having a bad game?

[Scouse Hibee]

Nobody says you have to get excited but why wouldn't you want to try and encourage the player or players who are having a bad game?

Like we do with our own children on a weekend morning you mean?

BECAUSE unlike them we are watching a bunch of overpaid, unfit, couldn't care less numptys who if they showed half the desire of kids playing football at grass roots level would be deserving of encouragement!!!

We pay our hard earned cash to watch these clowns and if they don't perform we have every right to berate them.

[BoltonHibee]

I think we should give those who boo until xmas before saying they should be punted. :wink:

Easily said, but who do you replace them with???

[Northernhibee]

Like we do with our own children on a weekend morning you mean?

BECAUSE unlike them we are watching a bunch of overpaid, unfit, couldn't care less numptys who if they showed half the desire of kids playing football at grass roots level would be deserving of encouragement!!!

We pay our hard earned cash to watch these clowns and if they don't perform we have every right to berate them.

If you had a bad day at work and your boss started shouting "**** OFF SCOUSE HIBEE, YOU'RE PISH, NOT GOOD ENOUGH FOR THIS COMPANY, YOU'RE A CLOWN", would that be okay seeing as how they spend the companies hard earned cash to employ you?

[marinello59]

Like we do with our own children on a weekend morning you mean?

BECAUSE unlike them we are watching a bunch of overpaid, unfit, couldn't care less numptys who if they showed half the desire of kids playing football at grass roots level would be deserving of encouragement!!!

We pay our hard earned cash to watch these clowns and if they don't perform we have every right to berate them.

And apart from letting you get rid of some of your pent up aggresion, how does it actually help improve performance?

[Beefster]

If you had a bad day at work and your boss started shouting "**** OFF SCOUSE HIBEE, YOU'RE PISH, NOT GOOD ENOUGH FOR THIS COMPANY, YOU'RE A CLOWN", would that be okay seeing as how they spend the companies hard earned cash to employ you?

When you have a good day, do you get applauded and cheered out of the building whilst some folk sing a song about you? The next day, is your good day discussed in the papers and on radio and TV? Do folk walk about with your name on the back of their double cuffed shirts?

This whole "well, no-one would abuse you at work" argument is nonsensical. As someone said earlier, footballers are closer to actors, musicians and the like. I saw Morrissey get pelted with bottles on stage once (including some filled with piss) so maybe the Hibs players should think themselves lucky.

[Northernhibee]

When you have a good day, do you get applauded and cheered out of the building whilst some folk sing a song about you? The next day, is your good day discussed in the papers and on radio and TV? Do folk walk about with your name on the back of their double cuffed shirts?



Yes, I'm really fantastic.

:na na:

[blackpoolhibs]

Easily said, but who do you replace them with???

We probably need those who clap and cheer all 90 minutes to have lots more children, and quickly.

[Scouse Hibee]

And apart from letting you get rid of some of your pent up aggresion, how does it actually help improve performance?


Eh? It doesn't and I never said it did!

[Scouse Hibee]

If you had a bad day at work and your boss started shouting "**** OFF SCOUSE HIBEE, YOU'RE PISH, NOT GOOD ENOUGH FOR THIS COMPANY, YOU'RE A CLOWN", would that be okay seeing as how they spend the companies hard earned cash to employ you?


Jeez that's about the worst comparison you could have come up with. Utter tosh.

[Pretty Boy]

Maybe Saturday is as good a day as any to try this out then.

Considering we haven't sold out a relatively small allocation the only folk who will be there will be folk who really want to be there. So plenty singing,.encoragement etc, shout down any booers or moaners and see of it has any effect on the teams performance.

It's a break from the usual surroundings and league business so worth a try to see what difference.the crowd really makes to performance and effort levels.

[Beefster]

Maybe Saturday is as good a day as any to try this out then.

Considering we haven't sold out a relatively small allocation the only folk who will be there will be folk who really want to be there. So plenty singing,.encoragement etc, shout down any booers or moaners and see of it has any effect on the teams performance.

It's a break from the usual surroundings and league business so worth a try to see what difference.the crowd really makes to performance and effort levels.

No disrespect to the Blue Brazil but if Hibs don't look better against them then it's worse than we thought. Dunfermline would be a more realistic indicator of whether it makes a difference or not.

[Scouse Hibee]

Maybe Saturday is as good a day as any to try this out then.

Considering we haven't sold out a relatively small allocation the only folk who will be there will be folk who really want to be there. So plenty singing,.encoragement etc, shout down any booers or moaners and see of it has any effect on the teams performance.

It's a break from the usual surroundings and league business so worth a try to see what difference.the crowd really makes to performance and effort levels.


I think the fact that we're playing a lower league team in the cup should be enough motivation in itself dont you? If not then we all may as well pack it in and take up Saturday afternoon shopping.

[DaveF]

I'm not disputing that it's painful at times but folk react in different ways. I sit bored out of my tits, some folk lose the rag.

The myth is nonsense, IMHO. The current support is no better or worse than in previous spells of mediocrity.

Anyway, it's not going to be long before I'm being classed as a boo boy for even suggesting that it's not that bad so I'm stepping out of this now.

Absolutely spot on :agree:

I find it staggering that there appears to be some sort of concerted effort on here to marginalise and criticise fans who are sick of seeing their club produce a pish product while they part with £400 per season.

Every club has its whingers and moaners and Hibs are no different in that respect. Once the team start winning again, the moaners will be drowned out by the majority - just give us something to cheer.

[Scouse Hibee]

Absolutely spot on :agree:

I find it staggering that there appears to be some sort of concerted effort on here to marginalise and criticise fans who are sick of seeing their club produce a pish product while they part with £400 per season.

Every club has its whingers and moaners and Hibs are no different in that respect. Once the team start winning again, the moaners will be drowned out by the majority - just give us something to cheer.


:top marks

[Pretty Boy]

Maybe Saturday is as good a day as any to try this out then.

Considering we haven't sold out a relatively small allocation the only folk who will be there will be folk who really want to be there. So plenty singing,.encoragement etc, shout down any booers or moaners and see of it has any effect on the teams performance.

It's a break from the usual surroundings and league business so worth a try to see what difference.the crowd really makes to performance and effort levels.


I think the fact that we're playing a lower league team in the cup should be enough motivation in itself dont you? If not then we all may as well pack it in and take up Saturday afternoon shopping.

I agree hence why I suggested Saturday. If we lose or struggle against a lower league team even with the fans right behind the team it might finally end this suggestion that the fans are a major cause of our current plight.

The simple fact is the squad isn't fit for purpose, fans have always booed teams at half time and full time when they aren't happy and individualc players have always got it tight. I'm not much of a booer really, I tend to sit bored senseless as ER these days but whilst I don't condone it o do understand why some people are getting restless, booing etc. The fans are, for the most part, not to blame for the current shambles.

[Northernhibee]

Jeez that's about the worst comparison you could have come up with. Utter tosh.


Not at all, even though you've made a cash purchase for a season ticket, you should still conduct yourself in a certain manner.

If people are so determined to keep putting down our team and doing them, then have you thought about supporting Hearts? They're pretty much tailor made for the boys who boo and shout abuse at our team, that's practically what they do!

[Scouse Hibee]

Not at all, even though you've made a cash purchase for a season ticket, you should still conduct yourself in a certain manner.

If people are so determined to keep putting down our team and doing them, then have you thought about supporting Hearts? They're pretty much tailor made for the boys who boo and shout abuse at our team, that's practically what they do!


Yes, I thought about who to support about twenty years ago when I moved to Edinburgh. I chose Hibs though and see no reason to change, nor do I see any reason to stop letting players know if they are constantly turning in pish poor performances.I don't boo though, I prefer to shout my opinions specifically to those deserving of them!

[SouthamptonHibs]

This crop of players is the worst we've ever had!
Maybe a typical match day experience for most Hibs fans

1. Wake up excited it's match day
2. Off to Hibs game home or away with an open view, hoping to see there team play well and maybe even win - forget previous results
3. Teams annouced..5min conversation with mates trying to work out WTF has the gaffer went with that line up
4. Game starts....start your first Hibs song only to be backed up by 50 folk, the rest are wondering what all the noise is about
5. Atmospher dire for remaining 45mins especially games at ER, football poor 1 shot on goal
6. Off for a half time pizza
7. 2nd half try and start song again even less join in as the first 45mins has knocked there enthusiasm out of them
8. Football still poor, we then go behind defensive error
9. Abuse starts,the booing follows still no signs of a Hibs goal
10. Fans Leave early to beat the crowds, get hame, go to pub etc
11. result Hibs beat

try doing steps 1 to 11 nearly every week for two years.....
I don't think the fans have anything to do with the results, we are getting 8k at homes games and play in front of even less at most away games, hardly an intimadating place to play football the SPL.
We need quality players, time for the board to give something back to the fans and sign some quality in the team rather than these school boys or journeymen

Hail HAil

[Argylehibby]

Yes, I thought about who to support about twenty years ago when I moved to Edinburgh. I chose Hibs though and see no reason to change, nor do I see any reason to stop letting players know if they are constantly turning in pish poor performances.I don't boo though, I prefer to shout my opinions specifically to those deserving of them!

Scouse, can you explain just 1 thing to me here please, because I have to admit I struggle to understand your logic? You think it's OK to shout abuse at specific players who are not performing to your set standard and the fact that this tactic isn’t working is pretty clear to see as I'm sure you will agree the players and team have not actually improved. So just what is it that prevents you trying something different to see if that works? What is it that makes you believe that what you are doing benefits anyone except perhaps you yourself?

You see nothing wrong with what you are doing yet it’s at best having no affect on the team. Why not try something different and see if that does have a positive influence? It isn’t going to make things any worse is it?

I'm sure we will all promise not to make you come on here and admit you might have been wrong if the performances improve if that’s what worries you.

[Scouse Hibee]

Scouse, can you explain just 1 thing to me here please, because I have to admit I struggle to understand your logic? You think it's OK to shout abuse at specific players who are not performing to your set standard and the fact that this tactic isn’t working is pretty clear to see as I'm sure you will agree the players and team have not actually improved. So just what is it that prevents you trying something different to see if that works? What is it that makes you believe that what you are doing benefits anyone except perhaps you yourself?

You see nothing wrong with what you are doing yet it’s at best having no affect on the team. Why not try something different and see if that does have a positive influence? It isn’t going to make things any worse is it?

I'm sure we will all promise not to make you come on here and admit you might have been wrong if the performances improve if that’s what worries you.

Hey Argyle, for one I think you're reading far too much into the effect crtiticising a players performance will have upon them. During my youngers days as an apprentice if I got bollocked at work it just made me more determined to do the task better the next time and prove the aggressor wrong. It certainly didn't make me go to pieces and make my performance worse. (I only use work as an example as someone else mentioned it earlier)

There will be arguments for both sides on how abuse or crtiticism effects player, let's not forget they are paid professionals supposedly the cream of the crop, thousands never achieve what they have to play professionally yet all too often they seem to show a total disrespect especially in regard to the wage they receive in relation to the majority of supporters that go to see them.

I have followed and watched live football for thirty odd years, I do not for one minute buy into this nonsense that our players (aw diddums bless them) are performing so poorly because of input from the crowd. I think it is laughable in fact pathetic to suggest otherwise and that performances will improve if as you say we try something different.
For the record I don't abuse players, swear boo or name call, I do however show my disatisfaction as football supporters across the world have done for many years if I think players are not bothered or performing to their abilities.

I actually can't believe I'm having this converstion with other football supporters!

[Argylehibby]

Hey Argyle, for one I think you're reading far too much into the effect crtiticising a players performance will have upon them. During my youngers days as an apprentice if I got bollocked at work it just made me more determined to do the task better the next time and prove the aggressor wrong. It certainly didn't make me go to pieces and make my performance worse. (I only use work as an example as someone else mentioned it earlier)

There will be arguments for both sides on how abuse or crtiticism effects player, let's not forget they are paid professionals supposedly the cream of the crop, thousands never achieve what they have to play professionally yet all too often they seem to show a total disrespect especially in regard to the wage they receive in relation to the majority of supporters that go to see them.

I have followed and watched live football for thirty odd years, I do not for one minute buy into this nonsense that our players (aw diddums bless them) are performing so poorly because of input from the crowd. I think it is laughable in fact pathetic to suggest otherwise and that performances will improve if as you say we try something different.
For the record I don't abuse players, swear boo or name call, I do however show my disatisfaction as football supporters across the world have done for many years if I think players are not bothered or performing to their abilities.

I actually can't believe I'm having this converstion with other football supporters!

You are fortunate that you can handle criticism and even use it as a motivation to improve. Not everyone has that grit and determination. I also appreciate that you’re not using your experience as a direct comparison but 1 boss giving you 30 seconds of stick in a 7 hour day compared to 3000 giving you 30 minutes of abuse in a 90 minute shift makes a difference. I do believe the negativity in the crowd affects players but even if I am wrong, I just don’t see why you and others cant at least at least for a few games see if not criticising but encouraging has a positive effect. What harm will befall you or the team for trying? If it doesn’t work after 4 or 5 games by all means go back to showing your dissatisfaction in whatever way you do currently.

[King Paddy]

As fans there are some things we cant change and there are somethings we can change, here is a rather outlandish idea, why don't we try and change something we can have direct impact on very quickly. Stop the booing of our own team and stop any abuse of our own players, who would want to sign or stay for around for the abuse dished out (by a minority most the time). A good way to is to stifle the abuse is with chants when you hear it taking place, this way you don't risk getting a smack in the gob telling someone to shut up. Buts if someone near starts piping up shouting abuse, just start chanting hibees, hibees at the top of your voice to drown them out. We need to be proactive, this is our club!!!

Below are the thoughts of another poster I have taken form another thread 'ArgileHibby' was the author I think:

".........You're correct the booing fans are not THE problem but they are definitely ONE of the many problems at ER just now. It is however one of the easier problems to overcome if the fans were firstly willing to accept they are part of the overall problem and then simply make a decision now to stop the negativity and start encouraging the team regardless of what is happening on the pitch. I'd be very interested to see what improvements there would be if we, the fans, introduced a self imposed amnesty and basically cut out the negative reaction to everything that happens on the pitch that is less than 100% in Hibs favour. There is nothing to lose by cutting out the booing, jeering etc and you never know it might just see the team and therefore the fans gain something.

There is a lack of quality in the team and some of the players are less able to handle the criticism than others. Correcting that lack of quality and inner strength costs money, changing the way the fans react costs nothing and while it may not result in us going on long winning streak and reaching / winning cup finals I do believe that it would see a positive return in terms of performance and points gained. As I said nothing to lose in trying it is there?"

I thought this is such a well made point it deserves its own thread.

GGTTH

:flag::flag::flag:


IMO the booing is mainly the frustration the fans feel regarding the board. Yes their is negativity towards the players but the main culprits are Petrie?Farmer. How else do you expect fans to be positive when it hurts like hell to know the board sold the golden generation at the drop of a hat.

[Mikey]

IMO the booing is mainly the frustration the fans feel regarding the board. Yes their is negativity towards the players but the main culprits are Petrie?Farmer. How else do you expect fans to be positive when it hurts like hell to know the board sold the golden generation at the drop of a hat.

What's wrong with just supporting the team?

[ronaldo7]

IMO the booing is mainly the frustration the fans feel regarding the board. Yes their is negativity towards the players but the main culprits are Petrie?Farmer. How else do you expect fans to be positive when it hurts like hell to know the board sold the golden generation at the drop of a hat.

Hi bud,

Did you get that E Mail sorted out yet. I maybe missed it. Gonnae post it again please.

[AgentDaleCooper]

Like we do with our own children on a weekend morning you mean?

BECAUSE unlike them we are watching a bunch of overpaid, unfit, couldn't care less numptys who if they showed half the desire of kids playing football at grass roots level would be deserving of encouragement!!!

We pay our hard earned cash to watch these clowns and if they don't perform we have every right to berate them.

if you read through this thread properly, you'll see that it isn't peoples' right to boo that is in question - it's whether it has positive or negative impact on the team.

this isn't a moral debate - it's an assessment of the consequences of our actions.

if you genuinely believe that booing doesn't make a negative contribution to the team, please explain...

[Mikey]

if you read through this thread properly, you'll see that it isn't peoples' right to boo that is in question - it's whether it has positive or negative impact on the team.

this isn't a moral debate - it's an assessment of the consequences of our actions.



:top marks

[Scouse Hibee]

You are fortunate that you can handle criticism and even use it as a motivation to improve. Not everyone has that grit and determination. I also appreciate that you’re not using your experience as a direct comparison but 1 boss giving you 30 seconds of stick in a 7 hour day compared to 3000 giving you 30 minutes of abuse in a 90 minute shift makes a difference. I do believe the negativity in the crowd affects players but even if I am wrong, I just don’t see why you and others cant at least at least for a few games see if not criticising but encouraging has a positive effect. What harm will befall you or the team for trying? If it doesn’t work after 4 or 5 games by all means go back to showing your dissatisfaction in whatever way you do currently.

I think you have a picture of me as some sort of serial critic at every game I go to :greengrin. I can assure you that's not the case, of course I encourage the team in every game I go to, I also in ninety minutes have a moan if I think it's appropriate. As I said I think far to much is being read into this.

[Scouse Hibee]

if you read through this thread properly, you'll see that it isn't peoples' right to boo that is in question - it's whether it has positive or negative impact on the team.

this isn't a moral debate - it's an assessment of the consequences of our actions.

if you genuinely believe that booing doesn't make a negative contribution to the team, please explain...

If you read my post correctly, you will see I have done! Thank you and goodnight.....................

[Ferryhibby]

As fans there are some things we cant change and there are somethings we can change, here is a rather outlandish idea, why don't we try and change something we can have direct impact on very quickly. Stop the booing of our own team and stop any abuse of our own players, who would want to sign or stay for around for the abuse dished out (by a minority most the time). A good way to is to stifle the abuse is with chants when you hear it taking place, this way you don't risk getting a smack in the gob telling someone to shut up. Buts if someone near starts piping up shouting abuse, just start chanting hibees, hibees at the top of your voice to drown them out. We need to be proactive, this is our club!!!

Below are the thoughts of another poster I have taken form another thread 'ArgileHibby' was the author I think:

".........You're correct the booing fans are not THE problem but they are definitely ONE of the many problems at ER just now. It is however one of the easier problems to overcome if the fans were firstly willing to accept they are part of the overall problem and then simply make a decision now to stop the negativity and start encouraging the team regardless of what is happening on the pitch. I'd be very interested to see what improvements there would be if we, the fans, introduced a self imposed amnesty and basically cut out the negative reaction to everything that happens on the pitch that is less than 100% in Hibs favour. There is nothing to lose by cutting out the booing, jeering etc and you never know it might just see the team and therefore the fans gain something.



There is a lack of quality in the team and some of the players are less able to handle the criticism than others. Correcting that lack of quality and inner strength costs money, changing the way the fans react costs nothing and while it may not result in us going on long winning streak and reaching / winning cup finals I do believe that it would see a positive return in terms of performance and points gained. As I said nothing to lose in trying it is there?"

I thought this is such a well made point it deserves its own thread.

GGTTH

:flag::flag::flag:




:aok::aok::top marks:top marks best post ive read for ages, been saying for a while it cant be any fun for the players to hear your own fans booing and screaming at them coz they made a few bad passes....ok more than a few....but theyr still young guys who thrive on confidence and our team is totally devoid of it just now....think some of it would come back if they heard us singing and supporting them for a change.

[AgentDaleCooper]

Hey Argyle, for one I think you're reading far too much into the effect crtiticising a players performance will have upon them. During my youngers days as an apprentice if I got bollocked at work it just made me more determined to do the task better the next time and prove the aggressor wrong. It certainly didn't make me go to pieces and make my performance worse. (I only use work as an example as someone else mentioned it earlier)

There will be arguments for both sides on how abuse or crtiticism effects player, let's not forget they are paid professionals supposedly the cream of the crop, thousands never achieve what they have to play professionally yet all too often they seem to show a total disrespect especially in regard to the wage they receive in relation to the majority of supporters that go to see them.

I have followed and watched live football for thirty odd years, I do not for one minute buy into this nonsense that our players (aw diddums bless them) are performing so poorly because of input from the crowd. I think it is laughable in fact pathetic to suggest otherwise and that performances will improve if as you say we try something different.
For the record I don't abuse players, swear boo or name call, I do however show my disatisfaction as football supporters across the world have done for many years if I think players are not bothered or performing to their abilities.

I actually can't believe I'm having this converstion with other football supporters!

in regards to the first paragraph - it's a different situation at hibs. there has been a problem with confidence for a very long time. it's not a boot up the arse they need - we're way past that point.

as has been noted, there are several players who started off very well at hibs, and have since become less effective, while others have left and found their form again (e.g. rankin).

the fact is that all our moaning about players being pish, the manager being pish, the board being pish, and so on, is little more than hot air. unless we want to organise an actual protest regarding the board (which might be an idea if they don't give fenlon a decent wad to spend), the only thing we have control over is how we choose to support the team during the 90 minutes.

given the crisis of confidence that there seems to be at ER, it is very clear that hibs need positive support, and that by booing or abusing players, one is simply contributing to the downward spiral we find ourselves in.

[AgentDaleCooper]

If you read my post correctly, you will see I have done! Thank you and goodnight.....................

not quite yet...:wink:

[Argylehibby]

I think you have a picture of me as some sort of serial critic at every game I go to :greengrin. I can assure you that's not the case, of course I encourage the team in every game I go to, I also in ninety minutes have a moan if I think it's appropriate. As I said I think far to much is being read into this.

So are you willing, for a period of the next 5 games you attend, to bite your lip when it comes to a point where you want to moan just to see if, combined with everyone else making the same effort, it resulsults in the players relaxing and improving their individual performance?

By the way, sorry that you seem to be getting picked on as the bad guy here for expressing your opinion, I don't know 100% that you are wrong, I'm just suggesting that we all try something different and see if it works.

:pfgwa

[Scouse Hibee]

So are you willing, for a period of the next 5 games you attend, to bite your lip when it comes to a point where you want to moan just to see if, combined with everyone else making the same effort, it resulsults in the players relaxing and improving their individual performance?

By the way, sorry that you seem to be getting picked on as the bad guy here for expressing your opinion, I don't know 100% that you are wrong, I'm just suggesting that we all try something different and see if it works.

:pfgwa

No need for an apology, opinions are expressed and agreed or disagreed on I have no problem with that at all.

In relation to your 5 game period, I'm sorry as I don't agree on the effect it has on players or their performances, I will continue to support as I have done for the last 30 years. Hibs are a football club with players like any other club, no more, no less if they can't except criticism they're in the wrong profession. They will also enjoy the plaudits when they get it right.

[AgentDaleCooper]

No need for an apology, opinions are expressed and agreed or disagreed on I have no problem with that at all.

In relation to your 5 game period, I'm sorry as I don't agree on the effect it has on players or their performances, I will continue to support as I have done for the last 30 years. Hibs are a football club with players like any other club, no more, no less if they can't except criticism they're in the wrong profession. They will also enjoy the plaudits when they get it right.

ddaaaaahhhhhhrgh, you're totally missing the point...:brickwall


noone is saying they aren't accepting anything - i don't think the opinions of players have even been mentioned! and you also haven't justified why you think that booing people with low confidence will help, all you've said is that "when ah wiz a laddie" and so on, which is utterly different circumstances...

(sorry, not meaning to pick on you, i'm just a pedantic twat)

[Scouse Hibee]

ddaaaaahhhhhhrgh, you're totally missing the point...:brickwall


noone is saying they aren't accepting anything - i don't think the opinions of players have even been mentioned! and you also haven't justified why you think that booing people with low confidence will help, all you've said is that "when ah wiz a laddie" and so on, which is utterly different circumstances...

(sorry, not meaning to pick on you, i'm just a pedantic twat)


Stop worrying about mollycoddling footballers FFS.


And another thing, yours is the second apology to me on this thread tonight, cut it out I'm not gonna burst into tears over this!!!!!

[Kato]

I do not for one minute buy into this nonsense that our players (aw diddums bless them) are performing so poorly because of input from the crowd. I think it is laughable in fact pathetic to suggest otherwise and that performances will improve if as you say we try something different.


I think you are laughable and pathetic for not understanding what is being said.

No one is saying they are playing badly because of the anti-atmosphere inside the ground. But it's got to the point where it isn't helping anyone. Fans are turned off by it and opposition players feed off it.

[Scouse Hibee]

I think you are laughable and pathetic for not understanding what is being said.

No one is saying they are playing badly because of the anti-atmosphere inside the ground. But it's got to the point where it isn't helping anyone. Fans are turned off by it and opposition players feed off it.


:rolleyes: Duh okay thanks for your input it is very much appreciated.

[Kato]

:rolleyes: Duh okay thanks for your input it is very much appreciated.

Aye. Same with yours, same with yours.

[Scouse Hibee]

I think you are laughable and pathetic for not understanding what is being said.

No one is saying they are playing badly because of the anti-atmosphere inside the ground. But it's got to the point where it isn't helping anyone. Fans are turned off by it and opposition players feed off it.

And read the posts because plenty have said just that :rolleyes:. :faf: Try again!

[marleyhib]

I must admit to booing on occasion at ER in the last season or two.

No is has no positive effect whatsoever but sometimes I can't help myself.

I am generally not booing the players because to be honest the ones we have at the moment don't have any talent.

I have booed Calderwood because he was useless, looked uninterested and wanted to leave. I have booed Petrie because he has got us into a real mess by appointing a string of managers that have either not been good enough or not been backed/supported properly or in Calderwood's case punted earlier.

I go to Easter Road to watch football not gaze at the stadium, I was worried 3-4 years ago that Petrie/the board were getting the balance wrong between investing in the team or in the infrastructure. They got it wrong.

I have a ST, I want Hibs to do well, I find it very very hard to be positive. We are underachieving, we are being poorly managed on the football side, I am regularly hacked off about it. Maybe if we all booed Petrie/Farmer would be compelled to do something, all I really see is apathy and decline.

[Mikey]

It's pretty disappointing that people are arguing in favour of booing.

[RIP]

There are 2 sides as I see it

Support the players for 90 minutes even when the going gets really tough.

Or. . . .

If you are not happy with the way the club is run, attend a forum, join a group for change or become a shareholder and lobby the agm.

Either way you are doing what you can to help your football club.

If you can't manage any positive action to help our club then we have to question what two years of negativity have achieved. That's an easy one to answer. . . .

Nothing apart from driving a wedge between supporters and players.

[spike220]

It seems to be acknowledged that abuse/booing (even at its very best) does not improve our players performance. However what if the booing and abuse is keeping other fans away. It all very well to say I have a ST I can do what I like, but what your behavior is keeping 15-20 others away and denying the club of revenue to help fix the situation. At the very least we should be able to bring our children to matches without having to explain the actions and words of others.

I like the idea of a Amnesty over the the next five games (and it doesn't matter who we are playing).

Now how do you change your signature on this thing???

GGTTH

[matty_f]

Absolutely spot on :agree:

I find it staggering that there appears to be some sort of concerted effort on here to marginalise and criticise fans who are sick of seeing their club produce a pish product while they part with £400 per season.

Every club has its whingers and moaners and Hibs are no different in that respect. Once the team start winning again, the moaners will be drowned out by the majority - just give us something to cheer.

Maybe folk also shelling out £400 a season are getting fed up having a bad day made worse by folk constantly berating the players.

Speaking for myself, I find it incredible that we give our own players a consistently harder time than we do any opposition player.


It's pretty disappointing that people are arguing in favour of booing.

:top marks


It seems to be acknowledged that abuse/booing (even at its very best) does not improve our players performance. However what if the booing and abuse is keeping other fans away. It all very well to say I have a ST I can do what I like, but what your behavior is keeping 15-20 others away and denying the club of revenue to help fix the situation. At the very least we should be able to bring our children to matches without having to explain the actions and words of others.

I like the idea of a Amnesty over the the next five games (and it doesn't matter who we are playing).

Now how do you change your signature on this thing???

GGTTH

:top marks

[Viva_Palmeiras]

Instead of unity perhaps something which can more
Focus the minds is defiance that's what I recall when I first went to the matches we were up against adversaries and even if we were getting beat there was a defiance - well support everymore

We need to get back to those days. Surprisingly it was the miller era. Memory must be failing me ;)

[DaveF]

Maybe folk also shelling out £400 a season are getting fed up having a bad day made worse by folk constantly berating the players.

Speaking for myself, I find it incredible that we give our own players a consistently harder time than we do any opposition player.

Who exactly are we (you) picking up on here? Are there fans who just go to ER and slag off players from first to last whistle? How many are there? (I saw a figure of 3000 earlier on mentioned). Do you really think there are thousands of Hibs 'fans' who get their kicks by paying £400 and just moan?

And do you really believe that Hibs fans are so much worse than other clubs fans when our form has been so poor for so long?

I'm NOT arguing in favour of booing - as Mikey incorrectly alludes to. I am arguing against this notion that angry and frustrated fans are the root cause of Hibs ***** performances over the last couple of seasons.

[DaveF]

There are 2 sides as I see it

Support the players for 90 minutes even when the going gets really tough.

Or. . . .

If you are not happy with the way the club is run, attend a forum, join a group for change or become a shareholder and lobby the agm.

Either way you are doing what you can to help your football club.

If you can't manage any positive action to help our club then we have to question what two years of negativity have achieved. That's an easy one to answer. . . .

Nothing apart from driving a wedge between supporters and players.

What about the fans who pay their ST money and are so abjectly bored out their skull at ER, that they sit quietly and shake their head.

If they are not into forums and focus groups do we not count in your eyes?

[matty_f]

Who exactly are we (you) picking up on here? Are there fans who just go to ER and slag off players from first to last whistle? How many are there? (I saw a figure of 3000 earlier on mentioned). Do you really think there are thousands of Hibs 'fans' who get their kicks by paying £400 and just moan?

And do you really believe that Hibs fans are so much worse than other clubs fans when our form has been so poor for so long?

I'm NOT arguing in favour of booing - as Mikey incorrectly alludes to. I am arguing against this notion that angry and frustrated fans are the root cause of Hibs ***** performances over the last couple of seasons.

I never mentioned a figure and I didn't start the thread, but seeing as you ask there is a vocal section of the support - probably still a minority but sadly it's a growing minority who do nothing but abuse the team. No encouragement, no support, just abuse. They say nothing until there is an opportunity to let rip. Who exactly are they? How specific are you wanting me to be?

The fans are not the root cause of the performances, and I'm yet to read a post that says that. However, they (we) are a part of the problem. We are not helping things at all with the constant berating and barrages of criticism aimed at the players.

[Nando™]

Some people actually think that the booing doesn't affect the players... absolutely incredible. Ask the players themselves if you're not convinced.

[AgentDaleCooper]

Who exactly are we (you) picking up on here? Are there fans who just go to ER and slag off players from first to last whistle? How many are there? (I saw a figure of 3000 earlier on mentioned). Do you really think there are thousands of Hibs 'fans' who get their kicks by paying £400 and just moan?

And do you really believe that Hibs fans are so much worse than other clubs fans when our form has been so poor for so long?

I'm NOT arguing in favour of booing - as Mikey incorrectly alludes to. I am arguing against this notion that angry and frustrated fans are the root cause of Hibs ***** performances over the last couple of seasons.

if so, then the notion you are arguing against isn't actually one that many people on this thread would support - it's an implausible version of the point most people are trying to make.

the point here is that surely in the current circumstances, with low confidence ALREADY prevelant in the team, booing and berating players cannot possibly help, and plausibly contributes negatively to the team's performance. since the only thing we have direct control over is our actions from the stand, it follows that the only positive thing we can do is actually support our team, or at the very least, not contribute to the negativity. the fans and the team feed off each other, so while it is entirely understandible that the support should be very disgruntled, it doesn't make it a bad thing if they try to do something positive in order to break part of the cycle.

given that things are currently pretty massively crap, there is pretty much no reason whatsoever to think that an amnesty would be a bad idea.

[AgentDaleCooper]

Some people actually think that the booing doesn't affect the players... absolutely incredible. Ask the players themselves if you're not convinced.

exactly - and it's not a question of whether it SHOULD affect them: it's simple a fact that it DOES.

[Beefster]

It's pretty disappointing that people are arguing in favour of booing.

I don't think many folk are actually arguing 'in favour' of booing. Some are arguing against the continuing demonisation of our fellow supporter, some are arguing that the problem is exaggerated, some are arguing about booing being way down on the list of things wrong at the club and some are arguing about personal freedoms.

On Hibs.net though, everything is black and white. It either has to be condone or condemn.

[Kato]

I don't think many folk are actually arguing 'in favour' of booing. Some are arguing against the continuing demonisation of our fellow supporter, some are arguing that the problem is exaggerated, some are arguing about booing being way down on the list of things wrong at the club and some are arguing about personal freedoms.

On Hibs.net though, everything is black and white. It either has to be condone or condemn.

I can't even see why people are arguing. I don't blame anyone who has lost the rag at the team, it's perfectly understandable.

What ever people are reading into this thread the point, for me, isn't to condemn, blame or demonise anyone. It's an attempt to stop the fans turning on the players - which happens regularly.

What's wrong with that?

[RIP]

There are 2 sides as I see it

Support the players for 90 minutes even when the going gets really tough. Or. . . . If you are not happy with the way the club is run, attend a forum, join a group for change or become a shareholder and lobby the agm. Either way you are doing what you can to help your football club.

If you can't manage any positive action to help our club then we have to question what two years of negativity have achieved. That's an easy one to answer. . . . Nothing apart from driving a wedge between supporters and players.


What about the fans who pay their ST money and are so abjectly bored out their skull at ER, that they sit quietly and shake their head. If they are not into forums and focus groups do we not count in your eyes?

Dave - I'm not sure I understand you but maybe I've not been listening well enough. I'm not judging the silent majority. At the moment I realise it's only a minority that cheer or boo. The folk that cheer are mostly clumped together in the East - as they have been since the 80's. The folk that boo are mostly lone figures that get off their seats to boo, gesticulate or abuse.

It's possible they have exactly the same frustrations as the rest of us but can only express that frustration in a negative way. There were a few such individuals near me in the East. One or two have a sort of Tourettes thingy going on. A bunch of lads at the back had clearly left their self control behind after their sixth pre-match drink. Some others are just very vocal either way - every section of the crowd has one - and we read posts from time to time on the challenge on getting these individuals to pipe down.

So when the OP talks about an amnesty he is not saying we should not voice our discontent. Nor is he saying we are all happy with the state of the club. What he is saying, I believe, is that we suspend our natural inclinations and for the next 4 months try a tactic of unstinting support - to see if that will achieve more for the team's confidence. I wouldn't imagine he is expecting 100% backing, but if even 10 or 20% of our crowd are positive - that will go a long way to improving the atmosphere for the players.

Worth a try at least

[bawheid]

I must admit to booing on occasion at ER in the last season or two.

sometimes I can't help myself.



Haha...really??

You actually can't help yourself? Is it like an automatic non-cognitive pseudo-tourette's type reaction??

With all due respect, unless you have a mental age of about 5 (which I doubt given the standard of your writing) then actually, you can help yourself.

[Northernhibee]

As fans there are some things we cant change and there are somethings we can change, here is a rather outlandish idea, why don't we try and change something we can have direct impact on very quickly. Stop the booing of our own team and stop any abuse of our own players, who would want to sign or stay for around for the abuse dished out (by a minority most the time). A good way to is to stifle the abuse is with chants when you hear it taking place, this way you don't risk getting a smack in the gob telling someone to shut up. Buts if someone near starts piping up shouting abuse, just start chanting hibees, hibees at the top of your voice to drown them out. We need to be proactive, this is our club!!!

Below are the thoughts of another poster I have taken form another thread 'ArgileHibby' was the author I think:

".........You're correct the booing fans are not THE problem but they are definitely ONE of the many problems at ER just now. It is however one of the easier problems to overcome if the fans were firstly willing to accept they are part of the overall problem and then simply make a decision now to stop the negativity and start encouraging the team regardless of what is happening on the pitch. I'd be very interested to see what improvements there would be if we, the fans, introduced a self imposed amnesty and basically cut out the negative reaction to everything that happens on the pitch that is less than 100% in Hibs favour. There is nothing to lose by cutting out the booing, jeering etc and you never know it might just see the team and therefore the fans gain something.

There is a lack of quality in the team and some of the players are less able to handle the criticism than others. Correcting that lack of quality and inner strength costs money, changing the way the fans react costs nothing and while it may not result in us going on long winning streak and reaching / winning cup finals I do believe that it would see a positive return in terms of performance and points gained. As I said nothing to lose in trying it is there?"

I thought this is such a well made point it deserves its own thread.

GGTTH

:flag::flag::flag:



Nice try, but I tried starting a similar positive thread to make an effort to think a little more positively earlier this week and just got a load of negative rubbish.

Untill the fairweather fans that infest these forums decide to go and "support" someone else, we'll continue to have one of the worst, most negative fanbases in Scottish football. I'd actually rather we were a first division team with 5,000 great fans than what we have now, it's absolutely poisonous both in the stadium and out of it.

We're in a relegation fight, that's where true fans show they have the balls and the stomach to support their team through thick and thin.

[Beefster]

Nice try, but I tried starting a similar positive thread to make an effort to think a little more positively earlier this week and just got a load of negative rubbish.

Untill the fairweather fans that infest these forums decide to go and "support" someone else, we'll continue to have one of the worst, most negative fanbases in Scottish football. I'd actually rather we were a first division team with 5,000 great fans than what we have now, it's absolutely poisonous both in the stadium and out of it.

We're in a relegation fight, that's where true fans show they have the balls and the stomach to support their team through thick and thin.

Some of those 'fairweather fans' you like to dismiss have probably continued to follow the club through the last relegation and maybe even the one before that.

[bawheid]

Some of those 'fairweather fans' you like to dismiss have probably continued to follow the club through the last relegation and maybe even the one before that.

:agree:

Depends what you mean by "follow the club" though. Does that mean looking out for the results at 1650? Maybe :grr:ing and :brickwall ing on the match updates thread every Saturday constitutes following the club?

How about starting a thread declaring the new manager a dud after a handful of games?

It's easy to "follow" Hibs. Harder supporting them though.

[blackpoolhibs]

It's pretty disappointing that people are arguing in favour of booing.

:agree: Can we not just support the team however they are playing while the match is going on, and if it deserves it at the end, then let them, the manager and ultimately the board know how you are feeling at the end? :confused:

[Beefster]

:agree:

Depends what you mean by "follow the club" though. Does that mean looking out for the results at 1650? Maybe :grr:ing and :brickwall ing on the match updates thread every Saturday constitutes following the club?

How about starting a thread declaring the new manager a dud after a handful of games?

It's easy to "follow" Hibs. Harder supporting them though.

I agree entirely. I'm just getting fed up for this incessant need to categorise folk as 'crap' supporters and 'good' supporters. It's as divisive as the whole 'Happy Clapper'/'Doom & Gloomer' nonsense and will, ultimately, further alienate folk when Hibs need everyone.

[bawheid]

I agree entirely. I'm just getting fed up for this incessant need to categorise folk as 'crap' supporters and 'good' supporters. It's as divisive as the whole 'Happy Clapper'/'Doom & Gloomer' nonsense and will, ultimately, further alienate folk when Hibs need everyone.

Yep. I recall the whole D&G/HC thing was at its height when Williamson was in charge. Not so much of it when we were doing well.

I agree it's divisive, but when you have posters putting up threads and posts a few matches into the manager's reign then you're going to get a reaction from the other side of the "supporter" spectrum.

As with D&G/HC, most folk recognise the answer is somewhere in the middle.

[Northernhibee]

We've made Easter Road a more intimidating place for the home team to play than the away team, and results show that.

Surely that's a sign that something's rotten amongst the stands?

[down the slope]

The fans will only get behind the team when they start to see something to shout about, this is not a new scenario as it happens periodically and the whole thing will kick off for what seems to be no apparent reason , what starts it seems to be a collective belief that a corner has been turned and that someone in charge knows what they are doing. My first experience of this was way back when we got beaten narrowly by Rangers , we had John Madsen at centre half [ shows you how long ago ] and he gifted them the winning goal but something happened that day to galvanize the fans who started make a hell of a noise led by the fans in the old stand who were hammering away on the old tin sides . It would be nice to think this will happen soon , all it would take will be a wee spark to set the whole thing in motion .

[HibsMax]

Like we do with our own children on a weekend morning you mean?

BECAUSE unlike them we are watching a bunch of overpaid, unfit, couldn't care less numptys who if they showed half the desire of kids playing football at grass roots level would be deserving of encouragement!!!

We pay our hard earned cash to watch these clowns and if they don't perform we have every right to berate them.

If you look at my post that I made before the one you quoted you will see that I said that I agree that fans have the right to feel annoyed and to boo. But I also asked what you hoped to achieve by doing do. I can't think of an upside to booing our own players.

I know that the guys are playing woeful football but I can't say that they don't care. Maybe they don't but I don't know that. Just because someone is under-performing doesn't mean they don't care. It could be quite the opposite in fact. The worse you play the harder you try. The harder you try the more mistakes you make. This happens in all walks of life, not just sports. It takes confidence to get back in stride. Booing does not give players confidence. QED.

[heretoday]

I agree about booing. It never did any good.

[HibsMax]

in regards to the first paragraph - it's a different situation at hibs. there has been a problem with confidence for a very long time. it's not a boot up the arse they need - we're way past that point.

as has been noted, there are several players who started off very well at hibs, and have since become less effective, while others have left and found their form again (e.g. rankin).

the fact is that all our moaning about players being pish, the manager being pish, the board being pish, and so on, is little more than hot air. unless we want to organise an actual protest regarding the board (which might be an idea if they don't give fenlon a decent wad to spend), the only thing we have control over is how we choose to support the team during the 90 minutes.

given the crisis of confidence that there seems to be at ER, it is very clear that hibs need positive support, and that by booing or abusing players, one is simply contributing to the downward spiral we find ourselves in.

This speaks volumes in my opinion. If it was a case of just one player then that would be an anomaly. I said ages ago that there is something rotten at the club but I don't know what. I still don't know what it is. We've had different managers selecting different players so it can't be the selection process UNLESS the board has more input than we know / think they do. We hear about investment but we are not the lowest spenders in the league. Maybe ER is haunted.

[Fergus52]

We've made Easter Road a more intimidating place for the home team to play than the away team, and results show that.

Surely that's a sign that something's rotten amongst the stands?

:agree:

[super_jack]

Totally agree with the first post!!

I'm a believer that we as fans are partly responsible for the product we see on the field and surely a bit of positivity will go some way towards turning things round on the field. How is a footballer expected to play with confidence when every small mistake is met with boos and abuse? As a player, that will do nothing to motivate you to try harder and in my view our awful record at Easter Road this season is partly due to the culture of slagging off and abusing players at every mistake.

We know the players are low on confidence so surely the best way to help improve that is by getting behind them. Hopefully some positivity at our next home match will see the players giving something back! Bring on the next home game!!!

[spike220]

The tide is turning! I lifted this from another thread, from a punter who observed the following at the Cowdenbeath match.

Callum Laidlaw posted:

"some guy started booing after about 5 minutes, to which someone shouted "how the £&@£ is booing going to help?" and more quietly said to his mate "a player is hardly gonna think I really need to play better cos some w&?£3r in the crowd is booing".

:agree:Great Stuff!!! :agree: Well done that man who challenged this, one of our own fans starting to show some balls!! Maybe it will catch on.

GGTTH

[Argylehibby]

The tide is turning! I lifted this from another thread, from a punter who observed the following at the Cowdenbeath match.

Callum Laidlaw posted:

"some guy started booing after about 5 minutes, to which someone shouted "how the £&@£ is booing going to help?" and more quietly said to his mate "a player is hardly gonna think I really need to play better cos some w&?£3r in the crowd is booing".

:agree:Great Stuff!!! :agree: Well done that man who challenged this, one of our own fans starting to show some balls!! Maybe it will catch on.

GGTTH

I challenged the booing and I dont think I was the only one as part 2 of the above wasn't me! I wasn't close enough to the person / people who booed to know who they were though. What I find amazing though is on all of the threads on the subject including the one on gestures by our own player we have people defending abusing our own players yet nobody has the balls to own up to doing it. It is always "don't do it myself but..."

[Beefster]

I challenged the booing and I dont think I was the only one as part 2 of the above wasn't me! I wasn't close enough to the person / people who booed to know who they were though. What I find amazing though is on all of the threads on the subject including the one on gestures by our own player we have people defending abusing our own players yet nobody has the balls to own up to doing it. It is always "don't do it myself but..."

IIRC, a few folk on here have admitted booing. Not everyone uses this site though so it's perfectly plausible that the serial offenders aren't on here.

[spike220]

IIRC, a few folk on here have admitted booing. Not everyone uses this site though so it's perfectly plausible that the serial offenders aren't on here.

Is that a-roundabout way of saying it someone from The Bounce? :greengrin

GGTTH