Invest or leave - Version 2

[Baldy Foghorn]

I started a thread a few months back, saying that the Board should invest or leave...........

It started a varying discussion, but have things changed? We have gone backwards as a team IMO, and are in freefall....I am not sure how much money is required to be spent, to bring in genuine quality, but the crux of the matter is this team is in a horrible dogfight with Dunfermline at present, and I cant see the current players digging us out of the mess.....

Do we invest heavily hoping to avoid relegation (which would still not be a certainty), or do we bring in a few players within the budget and keep our fingers, toes and legs crossed that we stay up?

[Eyrie]

It's not how much we invest in the playing squad, it's how well we invest it.

[blackpoolhibs]

And again BF, its the same question from me. Just how much more should we spend than our nearest competitors to guarantee success?

How would you feel if STF said, ah ****it, paddy here's £5m to spend, then he *****ed it on more dross?

We spend more than most now, me personally i'd just like whoever the manager is did that job better.

[Baldy Foghorn]

And again BF, its the same question from me. Just how much more should we spend than our nearest competitors to guarantee success?

How would you feel if STF said, ah ****it, paddy here's £5m to spend, then he *****ed it on more dross?

We spend more than most now, me personally i'd just like whoever the manager is did that job better.

I do not have the magic formula to say what level of finance would bring success....

I of course would be gutted if any manager blew £5m on dross, but something needs to give a little.....On other threads there are comments that the budget for January is healthy, but time will tell how much is spent, and on what level of player PF can entice within the budget........

[blackpoolhibs]

I do not have the magic formula to say what level of finance would bring success....

I of course would be gutted if any manager blew £5m on dross, but something needs to give a little.....On other threads there are comments that the budget for January is healthy, but time will tell how much is spent, and on what level of player PF can entice within the budget........

I'd imagine our budget whatever it is should be able to bring in players of a better standard than we currently have, but thats been the case anyway.

Any player thats been enticed to Kilmarnock or Motherwell and the likes, would have been offered more money to come to easter road had the manager wanted them, of that i have no doubt.

Its just a pity calderclown didn't know his erse from his elbow.

[Kaiser1962]

I do not have the magic formula to say what level of finance would bring success....

I of course would be gutted if any manager blew £5m on dross, but something needs to give a little.....On other threads there are comments that the budget for January is healthy, but time will tell how much is spent, and on what level of player PF can entice within the budget........

Again does PF buy for buyings sake? If his first choice is not available till the summer then does he switch his attention to the lesser choice or does he wait? There are a huge amount of unknown's.

But if there is anybody out there with the funds to throw away then now would be a good time for them to make themselves known. They would get good support.

[Andy74]

I started a thread a few months back, saying that the Board should invest or leave...........

It started a varying discussion, but have things changed? We have gone backwards as a team IMO, and are in freefall....I am not sure how much money is required to be spent, to bring in genuine quality, but the crux of the matter is this team is in a horrible dogfight with Dunfermline at present, and I cant see the current players digging us out of the mess.....

Do we invest heavily hoping to avoid relegation (which would still not be a certainty), or do we bring in a few players within the budget and keep our fingers, toes and legs crossed that we stay up?

A new thread on this was just what we were missing today as well. :greengrin

[Baldy Foghorn]

Again does PF buy for buyings sake? If his first choice is not available till the summer then does he switch his attention to the lesser choice or does he wait? There are a huge amount of unknown's.

But if there is anybody out there with the funds to throw away then now would be a good time for them to make themselves known. They would get good support.

Only if the player is better than we have available........Given our poor squad, it should be a dawdle picking up better players than we currently have:greengrin

[Baldy Foghorn]

A new thread on this was just what we were missing today as well. :greengrin

I like to entertain:wink:

[Kaiser1962]

Only if the player is better than we have available........Given our poor squad, it should be a dawdle picking up better players than we currently have:greengrin


You start next week! :greengrin

[Bad Martini]

With a wee bit of luck the smug yams who are ironically banging on about our league survival prospects will ideally implode pronto. ****owww. Then, a firesale can ensue...that said, any of that lot purchased would need to be well washed down before entering ER.

Merricks.

[joebakerforever]

Cast your mind back to January last year when we immediately sold the player who could have physically matched Kyle in the Derby (Bamba) and we all know what happened.

Was it not also the case that come the close of the 2011 transfer window, Hibs actually made a net gain re transfers in/out ?

Even this Season, we were unable to match St Johnstone in agreeing a loan deal for Cillian Sheridan.

As well as investing in new players, will we see O'Connor and Griffiths departing, resulting in negligible overall investment ?

[Baldy Foghorn]

You start next week! :greengrin

I wish Kaiser, I wish:greengrin

[blackie]

It is now 2012 we have gone through how many managers in the past five years? We now appoint a manager who I have never heard of. With the transfer window opening I cant see any player to being attracted to our club under the current manager. Surley we must start frenting our anger at the top. I mean Rod Petrie. He Has appointed someone in my opinion who he can control. We need someone at the helm who has ambition for the club and is a genuine supporter. Not someone who is happy to see the team decimated every six months when the transfer window opens. We need to look at the current situation as hibs fans and ask the question is changing the manager every year the right thing for the club. We need stability and it starts from the top. Rod Petrie must go! Or we will be watching 1st division football!

Its time for revolution!

[Iain G]

It is now 2012 we have gone through how many managers in the past five years? We now appoint a manager who I have never heard of. With the transfer window opening I cant see any player to being attracted to our club under the current manager. Surley we must start frenting our anger at the top. I mean Rod Petrie. He Has appointed someone in my opinion who he can control. We need someone at the helm who has ambition for the club and is a genuine supporter. Not someone who is happy to see the team decimated every six months when the transfer window opens. We need to look at the current situation as hibs fans and ask the question is changing the manager every year the right thing for the club. We need stability and it starts from the top. Rod Petrie must go! Or we will be watching 1st division football!

Its time for revolution!

Thank you Yogi your thoughts have been noted ;-)

You had heard of Mixu and Yogi and Calderwood I assume and they are the ones who got us into the current mess...

[Peevemor]

It is now 2012 we have gone through how many managers in the past five years? We now appoint a manager who I have never heard of. With the transfer window opening I cant see any player to being attracted to our club under the current manager. Surley we must start frenting our anger at the top. I mean Rod Petrie. He Has appointed someone in my opinion who he can control. We need someone at the helm who has ambition for the club and is a genuine supporter. Not someone who is happy to see the team decimated every six months when the transfer window opens. We need to look at the current situation as hibs fans and ask the question is changing the manager every year the right thing for the club. We need stability and it starts from the top. Rod Petrie must go! Or we will be watching 1st division football!

Its time for revolution!

:trumpet:

[cocopops1875]

I'm gonna have to agree with blackpool on this, if financial outlay dictated league position we would be 4th right now. Even on paper we have a decent squad sadly on the pitch we appear to be unfit, demotivated and short of confidence its a mindset that has or is costing us dearly and its now got to us the fans we are actually reflecting the mood of the players ( only some of us are unfit though) no motivation no confidence basically we don't want to be there. Would investment get those of us back who have stopped, or those of us who have decided to not renew next season ? It's a big time roll of the dice this time we need to get the fans back on side and the feelgood factor needs to return to Easter road .

[IWasThere2016]

And again BF, its the same question from me. Just how much more should we spend than our nearest competitors to guarantee success?

How would you feel if STF said, ah ****it, paddy here's £5m to spend, then he *****ed it on more dross?

We spend more than most now, me personally i'd just like whoever the manager is did that job better.

Firstly, it would be spending to avoid the drop and the consequences thereof (not 'guarantee success') and secondly, we all know it is never gonna be £5m.

[blackpoolhibs]

Firstly, it would be spending to avoid the drop and the consequences thereof (not 'guarantee success') and secondly, we all know it is never gonna be £5m.
And still no answer to just how much more we should spend than we do now, to guarantee we beat our nearest competitors?

[Kato]

It is now 2012 we have gone through how many managers in the past five years? We now appoint a manager who I have never heard of. With the transfer window opening I cant see any player to being attracted to our club under the current manager. Surley we must start frenting our anger at the top. I mean Rod Petrie. He Has appointed someone in my opinion who he can control. We need someone at the helm who has ambition for the club and is a genuine supporter. Not someone who is happy to see the team decimated every six months when the transfer window opens. We need to look at the current situation as hibs fans and ask the question is changing the manager every year the right thing for the club. We need stability and it starts from the top. Rod Petrie must go! Or we will be watching 1st division football!

Its time for revolution!

Frent away.

Do you honestly think if Petrie left now it would save us from relegation?

[Cropley10]

I'm gonna have to agree with blackpool on this, if financial outlay dictated league position we would be 4th right now. Even on paper we have a decent squad sadly on the pitch we appear to be unfit, demotivated and short of confidence its a mindset that has or is costing us dearly and its now got to us the fans we are actually reflecting the mood of the players ( only some of us are unfit though) no motivation no confidence basically we don't want to be there. Would investment get those of us back who have stopped, or those of us who have decided to not renew next season ? It's a big time roll of the dice this time we need to get the fans back on side and the feelgood factor needs to return to Easter road .

I don't buy this 4th biggest budget thing. It's trotted out to suggest that only Hertz and the OF who pay more than us and that we're great payers, relative to others.

If that's true then there's an awful lot of players playing for other teams earning less than we could pay them. Which makes the idea of hunting around for no-mark journeymen even more ridiculous, risky and expensive.

Better affordable players should be on our doorstep.

[Joe Baker II]

I started a thread a few months back, saying that the Board should invest or leave...........

It started a varying discussion, but have things changed? We have gone backwards as a team IMO, and are in freefall....I am not sure how much money is required to be spent, to bring in genuine quality, but the crux of the matter is this team is in a horrible dogfight with Dunfermline at present, and I cant see the current players digging us out of the mess.....

Do we invest heavily hoping to avoid relegation (which would still not be a certainty), or do we bring in a few players within the budget and keep our fingers, toes and legs crossed that we stay up?

I cannot believe we spend much more than other clubs, if we really have the 4th biggest budget must be a pretty close thing given we do not seem capable of even-signing decent SPL-players, can anyone see the likes of Sandaza, Vernon, Hughes, Davidson, Tade, Hayes, Daly, Morris and Swanson (maybe just in his case as he is a Hibs fan but still doubtful) even considering signing for Hibs for example?

Spending the £2m plus in 2010 that was wasted on the new East Stand on keeping some of our more recent better players would have helped it has to be said!

[Keith_M]

And still no answer to just how much more we should spend than we do now, to guarantee we beat our nearest competitors?



£2,703,651.65 should about do it.

[degenerated]

Brilliant. cropley10, tqm, and joe baker II all on the same thread. I'm away to listen to the smiths to cheer myself up.

[Cropley10]

Brilliant. cropley10, tqm, and joe baker II all on the same thread. I'm away to listen to the smiths to cheer myself up.

Shame on us, not towing the Party line.

[Spudster]

Spending the £2m plus in 2010 that was wasted on the new East Stand on keeping some of our more recent better players would have helped it has to be said!
Recent better players? :confused: Last player we had with quality and the right amount of application was Steven Fletcher, £2M wouldn't have been enough. Stokes had the ability but wasn't worth the hassle keeping and again the £2M wouldn't have been enough.

[blackpoolhibs]

We dont spend much more than the rest, but we are up there with the dons in 4th place spending wise.why are we 11th? Its bevause we spent badly, not because we did not have as much as motjerwell killie or dundee utd. and on top of that built the stand and yraining ground.

[degenerated]

Shame on us, not towing the Party line.

There is no party line. I'm just sick of your repetitive pish on every single thread I read. Away and try and get yer nat king that might cheer you ya miserable git.

[Cropley10]

There is no party line. I'm just sick of your repetitive pish on every single thread I read. Away and try and get yer nat king that might cheer you ya miserable git.

Oh dear. Think it might be you needing yer nat king old man.

[--------]

And again BF, its the same question from me. Just how much more should we spend than our nearest competitors to guarantee success?

How would you feel if STF said, ah ****it, paddy here's £5m to spend, then he *****ed it on more dross?

We spend more than most now, me personally i'd just like whoever the manager is did that job better.



For some time now I've been convinced that the root of our problems does not lie with manager or players - not that I've been happy with what's been going on at that level of the club, mind you.

The problem seems to me to lie at a higher level. How Farmer could come out at the AGM and tell the shareholders that Hids just couldn't have a better chairman/CEO/whatever he's supposed to be right now than Rod Petrie beggars belief. Five managers since 2006; a turnover of players unprecedented in my experience; and a gradual but quite definite decline in the quality of the team that's now in my opinion verging on the catastrophic. Oh yes, and a steady decline in attendances and a poisonous atmosphere at matches. This is an example of successful executive leadership? Bollocks!

I genuinely don't believe that there's any prospect of betterment while RP is around the club, but since he and STF appear to be joined at the hip...

I guess we're stuck with him, unless STF wakens up and takes in the fact that the fanbase is eroding, the team faces relegation unless there's a big improvement in their play, and a lot of long-term Hibbies like me have decided that neither Farmer nor Petrie gets a penny of our money until something radical is done to arrest the slide.

FWIW, I don't think it's about investment. I think it's about morale and the corporate culture at ER - we won't have a good team until the Siamese Twins make that their top priority, rather than a nice tidy set of accounts and an annual boast-fest about 'prudent stewardship'.

[degenerated]

Oh dear. Think it might be you needing yer nat king old man.

Not at all, I'm able to live a happy life despite supporting a football team that's garbage. You on the other hand appear to thrive on spending every waking minute indulging in crapulent whining about something you have absolutely no influence on and generally making the forum a thoroughly miserable place for everyone else.

All we're missing on this thread is smurf telling us he's spotted someone at the airport.

[Keith_M]

Not at all, I'm able to live a happy life despite supporting a football team that's garbage. You on the other hand appear to thrive on spending every waking minute indulging in crapulent whining about something you have absolutely no influence on and generally making the forum a thoroughly miserable place for everyone else.

All we're missing on this thread is smurf telling us he's spotted someone at the airport.


I've just spotted Smurf at the airport






:greengrin

[Albion Hibs]

"Invest or leave" is a load of nonsence as far as I am concerned. I am sure the same people that are asking for this investment are the ones that on other threads will hammer the board for achieving so little despite having the "4th highest wage bill". Therefore they have invested. It merely comes down to how, were and investing correctly.

At the end of the day what would happen if STF / the board said we are not going to invest.....nothing.

Again I am sure that many on here that are critical of the current owner / board for the so called lack of investment were also the ones getting pretty excited and very negative about the red bull name change. So they would be willing to accept our current owner leaving but only taking a new one on their terms...beggars cant be chosers and all that.

IF we do have the 4th highest playing staff budget, and that does not including our Annual Manager Pay Off Charge, then the key is spending the money better.

In addition if more people attended the games, there would be more money to invest. It is all fair and well to turn round to STF get say get your own money in, or Rod get down the the bank and ask for a bigger debt facility in the current economic climate (all the best with that), but the simple fact is the club has communicated pretty clearly and stated the money they get from ST goes into the team. You get what you pay for...there is no point spending your day looking for someone to give you something for nothing.

[Joe Baker II]

Shame on us, not towing the Party line.

Cheers for saving me from abuse from the likes of Degenerated for saying something he does not like - at least he seems to like the Smiths!

[Joe Baker II]

Recent better players? :confused: Last player we had with quality and the right amount of application was Steven Fletcher, £2M wouldn't have been enough. Stokes had the ability but wasn't worth the hassle keeping and again the £2M wouldn't have been enough.

Not sure about this - Bamba, Riordan, Hogg, Miller, Shiels, Donaldson for example were at Hibs since they decided to build new stand - though realise someone will argue they were not worth keeping too, and I accept they may have point though think they are still better than many of current team. Even Rankin seems to be doing decently at Tannadice.

[Spudster]

Not sure about this - Bamba, Riordan, Hogg, Miller, Shiels, Donaldson for example were at Hibs since they decided to build new stand - though realise someone will argue they were not worth keeping too, and I accept they may have point though think they are still better than many of current team. Even Rankin seems to be doing decently at Tannadice.
This is exactly why I said "quality and the right amount of application". I don't think anyone was bothered when any of the above left.

[IWasThere2016]

And still no answer to just how much more we should spend than we do now, to guarantee we beat our nearest competitors?

Cannot be done .. nothing is guaranteed. I think the truth will lie nearer as little as RP can get away with to avoid the drop personally.


For some time now I've been convinced that the root of our problems does not lie with manager or players - not that I've been happy with what's been going on at that level of the club, mind you.

The problem seems to me to lie at a higher level. How Farmer could come out at the AGM and tell the shareholders that Hids just couldn't have a better chairman/CEO/whatever he's supposed to be right now than Rod Petrie beggars belief. Five managers since 2006; a turnover of players unprecedented in my experience; and a gradual but quite definite decline in the quality of the team that's now in my opinion verging on the catastrophic. Oh yes, and a steady decline in attendances and a poisonous atmosphere at matches. This is an example of successful executive leadership? Bollocks!

I genuinely don't believe that there's any prospect of betterment while RP is around the club, but since he and STF appear to be joined at the hip...

I guess we're stuck with him, unless STF wakens up and takes in the fact that the fanbase is eroding, the team faces relegation unless there's a big improvement in their play, and a lot of long-term Hibbies like me have decided that neither Farmer nor Petrie gets a penny of our money until something radical is done to arrest the slide.

FWIW, I don't think it's about investment. I think it's about morale and the corporate culture at ER - we won't have a good team until the Siamese Twins make that their top priority, rather than a nice tidy set of accounts and an annual boast-fest about 'prudent stewardship'.

:top marks Cannae believe degenerated didnae have you in his wee list of doom 'n' gloomers though :wink: :greengrin

Those 'tidy accounts' are time-limited also .. Balance Sheet is good, cash and P&L position are poor and worsening. 100 RPs = :faf:

[degenerated]

Cannot be done .. nothing is guaranteed. I think the truth will lie nearer as little as RP can get away with to avoid the drop personally.



:top marks Cannae believe degenerated didnae have you in his wee list of doom 'n' gloomers though :wink: :greengrin

Dullards rather than doom and gloomers would be a better description and Doddie doesn't drone on and effing on about it, unlike others who I suspect actually perversely enjoy our current predicament.

[IWasThere2016]

Dullards rather than doom and gloomers would be a better description and Doddie doesn't drone on and effing on about it, unlike others who I suspect actually perversely enjoy our current predicament.

I better be enjoying a win at Cowden this weekend and one art EEP the following week or you won't have heard half of it :wink: And no self-respecting Hibby can be enjoying this ..

[Kaiser1962]

I don't buy this 4th biggest budget thing. It's trotted out to suggest that only Hertz and the OF who pay more than us and that we're great payers, relative to others.



You are right not to. We're fifth :greengrin

[Joe Baker II]

This is exactly why I said "quality and the right amount of application". I don't think anyone was bothered when any of the above left.

I know what you are saying though I think saying no-one was bothered overstates it slightly, but regardless of what was thought at time I would doubt any of them are worse than players in the current team.

Proud to be a dullard per Degenerated's high quality musings!

[degenerated]

Proud to be a dullard per Degenerated's high quality musings!

Something you've achieved with considerable aplomb.

[HFC 0-7]

And again BF, its the same question from me. Just how much more should we spend than our nearest competitors to guarantee success?

How would you feel if STF said, ah ****it, paddy here's £5m to spend, then he *****ed it on more dross?

We spend more than most now, me personally i'd just like whoever the manager is did that job better.

We shoudnt NOT spend money just because the manager MIGHT spend it un wisely. if thats the attitude we will never amount to anything.

IMO, we have to spend more than we normally do so that we can get in a core of experienced players. these players will need to be on longer than a season contracts. If we dont do this we will be in the same boat as the last couple of seasons, having half a team leaving the club every season and the manager having to replace them on the same budget. There is a problem with this, its very very difficult to replace 6 players on hibs budget with better players. The players that are available on hibs budget will, mostly, probably be in experienced in the SPL or at this level so they are risky. Bringing in 6 players that are risky and there will be failures.

Look at the other clubs in the SPL, many wont be replacing the amount of players Hibs are each season therefore they wont be taking as many risks on unknown players. Hibs have to spend more IMO than they normally do to build a solid core of experienced or proven players that can be added to each season. We will never have a settled side if we have to keep replacing players, which we will have to keep doing if we sign a lot of players on short contracts or rake about the bargain bin. Now is the time to spend a bit more than normal, get a solid core of a team in and start building on that.

If Alex ferguson had the same budget as hibs have been using lately and had to spread it across the amount of problem positions and players leaving, he would be forced to take a risk on some players which would probably not work out either.

If Hibs do this now and get some quality and experience in to build a team around, and they do it with players on a decent length of contract, then we should start going up the league, fans would get back on board which we mean more dosh for the club and who knows there may be some re sale value in some of the quality signings.

[Newcastlehibby]

Any major investment to improve the team is not just for one year. Players come on contracts which vary in length. This means that to pay the extra money now to bring in a higher quality playing staff, means paying that extra money forever. Let's say that an extra £2 million and 80 thousand was available now, giving £40k extra per week to spend on player wages. That would surely mean we could pay a full squad in the range of £1k to £10k per week or thereabouts. This would mean we could perhaps attract some Championship quality players and some of the best of the SPL, as well as up and coming youngsters.

Where is £2m plus a year going to come from?

Certainly not from spectators. Over the last 40 years, even with some very good teams on the park, we have not managed to attract huge crowds and that was when going to the game was comparatively speaking, cheaper than today. I reckon we would need to average 20000 for home games to sustain that income and i do not believe that is possible, especially in the current financial climate.

Perhaps other SPL managers have had a better eye for players of the right quality and have also been better at motivating them (they shouldn't need to be bloody motivated by anyone, pride should be enough!).

I just hope PF has that eye and those skills.

[HFC 0-7]

"Invest or leave" is a load of nonsence as far as I am concerned. I am sure the same people that are asking for this investment are the ones that on other threads will hammer the board for achieving so little despite having the "4th highest wage bill". Therefore they have invested. It merely comes down to how, were and investing correctly.

At the end of the day what would happen if STF / the board said we are not going to invest.....nothing.

Again I am sure that many on here that are critical of the current owner / board for the so called lack of investment were also the ones getting pretty excited and very negative about the red bull name change. So they would be willing to accept our current owner leaving but only taking a new one on their terms...beggars cant be chosers and all that.

IF we do have the 4th highest playing staff budget, and that does not including our Annual Manager Pay Off Charge, then the key is spending the money better.

In addition if more people attended the games, there would be more money to invest. It is all fair and well to turn round to STF get say get your own money in, or Rod get down the the bank and ask for a bigger debt facility in the current economic climate (all the best with that), but the simple fact is the club has communicated pretty clearly and stated the money they get from ST goes into the team. You get what you pay for...there is no point spending your day looking for someone to give you something for nothing.

To be fair, the board recently havent invested at all, they have just run the club. There is now a loan in the acounts which could be classed as an investment but that could just be classed as money being put in to cover bad management decisions. IMO, the board arent investing any money in the club, they are just paying bills. And there lies the problem, there is no investment and no one currently willing to invest.

In regards to the second part in bold. I honestly think there will need to be some investment this time from the board as the fans are so disheartened with the club that it will take something more than the norm to get them back onside. You could argue that these people arent fans and are too fickle etc, but in reality its the world that we live in and its what the club have to work with. Without the fans the club would cease, continue on a path that the fans dont like and its a recipe for disaster. I would say its pretty clear that its difficult to get a lot of players in that are good on a budget the size of Hibs at the one time. With that in mind its logical to think that a bigger budget should make it easier to bring in better players, you may argue that there is no proof of that but ask any manager out there if it makes it easier and I bet they will say it does.

[HFC 0-7]

Any major investment to improve the team is not just for one year. Players come on contracts which vary in length. This means that to pay the extra money now to bring in a higher quality playing staff, means paying that extra money forever. Let's say that an extra £2 million and 80 thousand was available now, giving £40k extra per week to spend on player wages. That would surely mean we could pay a full squad in the range of £1k to £10k per week or thereabouts. This would mean we could perhaps attract some Championship quality players and some of the best of the SPL, as well as up and coming youngsters.

Where is £2m plus a year going to come from?

Certainly not from spectators. Over the last 40 years, even with some very good teams on the park, we have not managed to attract huge crowds and that was when going to the game was comparatively speaking, cheaper than today. I reckon we would need to average 20000 for home games to sustain that income and i do not believe that is possible, especially in the current financial climate.

Perhaps other SPL managers have had a better eye for players of the right quality and have also been better at motivating them (they shouldn't need to be bloody motivated by anyone, pride should be enough!).

I just hope PF has that eye and those skills.

2,000,000 investment could be used to add 4K per week for 3 players to the existing wage budget for the next 3 seasons. That means we could offer 5-7 K per week for 3 decent players for 3 seasons. That, IMO, would make a difference. In addition after a season if one of those players has a very good season then we may have opportunities to sell a player which could then be used to put back into the squad, which is what I think the club intended to do now that we have all the infrastructure in place, they just never thought that we would have no sellable players now!

[bawheid]

Not sure about this - Bamba, Riordan, Hogg, Miller, Shiels, Donaldson for example were at Hibs since they decided to build new stand - though realise someone will argue they were not worth keeping too, and I accept they may have point though think they are still better than many of current team. Even Rankin seems to be doing decently at Tannadice.

Seriously?

Bamba - He wanted to go and try his luck down south. It would have taken big bucks to keep him on. Maybe £5k-10k per week.

Riordan - Again, was sick of the SPL and wanted a change. What was he on a week in China? £15k pw at least.

Hogg - I assume you're having a laugh here.

Sheils - Your only credible suggestion, yet Doncaster's wage budget far outstrips ours. Nevertheless, Shiels had his critics on here (who doesn't?).

Donaldson - Was mince at Hibs and this place would have gone into meltdown had he been given any sort of deal, never mind a top-earning contract.

I'm with degenerated here. You're a bore and have been banging the same drum most days for years. The only surprise is that you've not managed to squeeze the decision to play THAT semi-final at Hampden rather than Murrayfield into your post.

[matty_f]

2,000,000 investment could be used to add 4K per week for 3 players to the existing wage budget for the next 3 seasons. That means we could offer 5-7 K per week for 3 decent players for 3 seasons. That, IMO, would make a difference. In addition after a season if one of those players has a very good season then we may have opportunities to sell a player which could then be used to put back into the squad, which is what I think the club intended to do now that we have all the infrastructure in place, they just never thought that we would have no sellable players now!

Tend to agree with this. We need a few good players that we can try and tie down for a couple of years and build a team around.

[HFC 0-7]

Tend to agree with this. We need a few good players that we can try and tie down for a couple of years and build a team around.

Yup, we need a core of players in the team, that way we will probably have a settled style of play. It will make it easier for the manager as he will be able to look for players that will suit the style and team. it will also help younger players getting introduced into the team as it wont be such an unknown for them.

Hibs havent had a core for a while now and I think its shown as there has been no leader on the pitch and very little direction. Hibs look like 11 players doing their own thing. You get a core of players playing the same style then ir drives the rest of the team.

[matty_f]

Yup, we need a core of players in the team, that way we will probably have a settled style of play. It will make it easier for the manager as he will be able to look for players that will suit the style and team. it will also help younger players getting introduced into the team as it wont be such an unknown for them.

Hibs havent had a core for a while now and I think its shown as there has been no leader on the pitch and very little direction. Hibs look like 11 players doing their own thing. You get a core of players playing the same style then ir drives the rest of the team.

I think it also makes the fans more detached from the team if there aren't any regular 'fans favourites' in the side.

[easty]

Seriously?

Bamba - He wanted to go and try his luck down south. It would have taken big bucks to keep him on. Maybe £5k-10k per week.

Riordan - Again, was sick of the SPL and wanted a change. What was he on a week in China? £15k pw at least.

Hogg - I assume you're having a laugh here.

Sheils - Your only credible suggestion, yet Doncaster's wage budget far outstrips ours. Nevertheless, Shiels had his critics on here (who doesn't?).

Donaldson - Was mince at Hibs and this place would have gone into meltdown had he been given any sort of deal, never mind a top-earning contract.

I'm with degenerated here. You're a bore and have been banging the same drum most days for years. The only surprise is that you've not managed to squeeze the decision to play THAT semi-final at Hampden rather than Murrayfield into your post.

:agree: Where did this myth, that Clayton Donaldson was a good player, come from? He was mince. He had a good season with York, in the Conference no less, then we signed him. He was awful. He had the first touch of a blind man wearing footie boots 6 sizes too small. He had one good season at Crewe, in League 2, last season. This season? Not really scoring.

[bobbyhibs1983]

Been reading through the replies to the thread and Im wondering to myself. what?:confused:

I mean the the title is invest or leave.Can somone please explain to me why anyone would invest in hibs or scottish football at all?
I feel Albion hibs has made sense so far in the thread by his post so far.
Now alot of people have said stf or petrie should invest.Now can anyone tell me why they should?yes its a genuine(sp) question.

STF i assume has some money, how much?i dunno but i ASSUME he has a few million somewhere, but as i have said why should he invest when it would appear he d get little or no return on his money?


RP, Am i right in assuming he is only the chairman,if that? i dont think he has THAT much money and similar to the point regarding stf why should he invest in the club?
I think with rp he is only the chairman,I dont know much about him or his personall life but could he be JUST our chairman?Such as come to work, go home sorta thing, and having like i dunno how to put it, just sees his role as just a job?

Now i would ask you all, if you won 2million on the lottery would you put all that money into the club?
or would you buy yourself this, that, a holiday ,have a good time, set yourself up for life?

[Andy74]

2,000,000 investment could be used to add 4K per week for 3 players to the existing wage budget for the next 3 seasons. That means we could offer 5-7 K per week for 3 decent players for 3 seasons. That, IMO, would make a difference. In addition after a season if one of those players has a very good season then we may have opportunities to sell a player which could then be used to put back into the squad, which is what I think the club intended to do now that we have all the infrastructure in place, they just never thought that we would have no sellable players now!

I'm not sure there is any point investing once like that in the hope it self sustains itself. If it doesn't you've just chucked away £2m of someone's money.

Hearts have been paying about £8m per year more than everyone else on wages and it's not brought them much success or increased income to the level that it sustains itself.

We've seen that signing 3 or 4 players on biggger wages is actually still a gamble. On that money they can still be very hit or miss.

After 3 years the money is gone and you can't pay them again anyway.

[HFC 0-7]

I'm not sure there is any point investing once like that in the hope it self sustains itself. If it doesn't you've just chucked away £2m of someone's money.

Hearts have been paying about £8m per year more than everyone else on wages and it's not brought them much success or increased income to the level that it sustains itself.

We've seen that signing 3 or 4 players on biggger wages is actually still a gamble. On that money they can still be very hit or miss.

After 3 years the money is gone and you can't pay them again anyway.

We should stop using Hearts as an example of how throwing money into a team doesnt work. Vlad is a nutter and has basically sabotaged Hearts whenever they have looked like doing anything. Sacking Burley for example. Hearts have brought in some good players but they have just gone mental offerring silly money when they didnt need to, so lets just leave Hearts out of it when comparing anything.

Hibs have no spine of a team, no quality and no leader. Hibs current scouting system and wage budget will not allow Hibs to be able to replace the constant conveyer belt of players and form a core or spine of a team. Look at the teams in the SPL, they have a good couple of players that they seem to be able to build around. When hibs decided to let so many players go at the one time, even if it did seem sensible at the time, was always going to be difficult as replacing so many players at the one time with no real money for transfer fees means the pot of players is very limited.

Buying 3 or 4 quality proven players might not guarantee success, but it would get fans back on board which would generate income and of course it would give us more chance of doing something in the league and cups. these players, as I have said previously will probably always have a re sale value so one of them could be moved on, possibly for quite a lot should they have a good season.

Looking at Hibs right now, they have no real players worth any decent amount of money. the squad, again, will have to have a complete overhaul due to rubbish players and contracts finishing. Hibs have to create a core of players to build a team around and replace deadwood and players leaving all on the same budget as they have had for some time so IMO it will just be a continuation of what has been happening the last couple of seasons. lets not forget the clubs targets are challenging for europe and latter stages of cups so they have a long way to go. The fans are walking away so revenue is going down, like it or not the club need to get fans back onboard fast, and what better than a cash injection for players will make fans come back?

[ancienthibby]

We should stop using Hearts as an example of how throwing money into a team doesnt work. Vlad is a nutter and has basically sabotaged Hearts whenever they have looked like doing anything. Sacking Burley for example. Hearts have brought in some good players but they have just gone mental offerring silly money when they didnt need to, so lets just leave Hearts out of it when comparing anything.

Hibs have no spine of a team, no quality and no leader. Hibs current scouting system and wage budget will not allow Hibs to be able to replace the constant conveyer belt of players and form a core or spine of a team. Look at the teams in the SPL, they have a good couple of players that they seem to be able to build around. When hibs decided to let so many players go at the one time, even if it did seem sensible at the time, was always going to be difficult as replacing so many players at the one time with no real money for transfer fees means the pot of players is very limited.

Buying 3 or 4 quality proven players might not guarantee success, but it would get fans back on board which would generate income and of course it would give us more chance of doing something in the league and cups. these players, as I have said previously will probably always have a re sale value so one of them could be moved on, possibly for quite a lot should they have a good season.

Looking at Hibs right now, they have no real players worth any decent amount of money. the squad, again, will have to have a complete overhaul due to rubbish players and contracts finishing. Hibs have to create a core of players to build a team around and replace deadwood and players leaving all on the same budget as they have had for some time so IMO it will just be a continuation of what has been happening the last couple of seasons. lets not forget the clubs targets are challenging for europe and latter stages of cups so they have a long way to go. The fans are walking away so revenue is going down, like it or not the club need to get fans back onboard fast, and what better than a cash injection for players will make fans come back?


Well, STF invested £1 million into Hibs though one of his investment companies. My reading of that is that the banks declined and STF swallowed hard and made that investment.

People on this site go on and on and on and on and on about the 'Board' making an investment in Hibs.

What's expected here?? That each Board member should write a personal cheque for £500,000 and so, all our budget problems would be solved?????

The club as it is, does not have the financial resources to meet the supporters desires for the club!

[HFC 0-7]

[/B]


Well, STF through one of his companies invested £1 million into Hibs though one of his investment companies. My reading of that is that the banks declined and STF swallowed hard and made that investment.

People on this site go on and on and on and on and on about the 'Board' making an investment in Hibs.

What's expected here?? That each Board member should write a personal cheque for £500,000 and so, all our budget problems would be solved?????

The club as it is, does not have the financial resources to meet the supporters desires for the club!

When the going was good we were still at the club to plough some of the money that they were making through transfer fees back into the club, they didnt. We are now rank and we are having to put money into the club because the fans are deserting. In business sometimes its not enough just to put money in just to keep ticking over, sometimes you need to put in over and above that to start turning a profit again.

I am talking about investing 2,000,000 which could secure the services of 3 decent players for 3 seasons. 3 Decent players that could bring fans back and would have more of a chance of having a positive impact on the team that bringing in unknowns. About 4 years ago we were getting about 3K more people through the gate. Now I dont think 3 decent players would get that amount back through the gates straight away but may get about 1500 back through. 1500 at 400 a pop per season would be 600K more a season in revenue. so in 3 seasons the 2 million investment would almost be recouped. Then you start looking at the re sale value of one of those player within their contract and you could even make money. Not to mention the money we could generate from better cup runs and league placings.

The club are losing fans, rightly or wrongly, its happening. To address this the product on the park needs to be better and the players need to be better. The club have shown no signs that they can stop this, its time for a change of tact. An investment is needed IMO. Spend money now or spend it each season in losses as that what it boils down to. Not spending or spending, both are risks, spending will get fans back on board though.