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View Full Version : Petrie and Farmer have ripped the heart out of Hibs



KiddA
02-01-2012, 03:34 PM
Pay peanuts and this is what you get.

Our club is ####ed

Rant over

Part/Time Supporter
02-01-2012, 03:36 PM
They're paying more peanuts than 2/3 of this league and getting poorer results / performances than all but the newly promoted team.

heretoday
02-01-2012, 03:39 PM
Farmer has ripped the heart out of Hibs? Don't talk nonsense. Go and lie in a darkened room.

c31
02-01-2012, 03:41 PM
Today summed it all up for me, we had 11 players on the park who were to be fair played a bit better than under Calderwood but as much as it pains me to say it the gulf in class was there to be seen.
These players tried hard but didn't get the desired result and this is down to the amount of money made available for the investment in the team.
So unless there is major investment we are down, maybe not this year but more than certainly next.

cabbageandribs1875
02-01-2012, 03:43 PM
they may be paying peanuts, but these players must have been perfectly happy to accept these peanut payments before signing, maybe we should question these said players professionalism instead :dunno:

HIBERNIAN-0762
02-01-2012, 03:43 PM
Believe me neither of them will be bothering their erses tonight, not like us anyway.

I've stated a dozen times on here that Petrie is Farmers lap dug and as long as he is keeping the biscuit tin tightly closed then he's here for the long run, 1st division or not.

At no time in Petrie's reign has there ever been a glimmer of hope from the "Kremlin" regarding making it public to make funds available to any manager that is worthy of signing decent players.

I think he and Farmers time is up at ER, but sadly for us there does not seem to be anyone interested in putting us out of our misery.

Sad, sad times at Easter Road.

KiddA
02-01-2012, 03:44 PM
Farmer has ripped the heart out of Hibs? Don't talk nonsense. Go and lie in a darkened room.

Please explain? who else is to blame he controls the financial strings at Easter Road.

Yes he has invested in the stadium and training ground but not on the one thing that matters the product on the park hence the heart has been ripped out of Hibs.

Elephant Stone
02-01-2012, 03:44 PM
http://4.bp.blogspot.com/_Y9lniqtoYho/TFoXQd4CJbI/AAAAAAAAIFU/-uteZj1ck7Y/s1600/turd.png

justlikebrazil
02-01-2012, 03:46 PM
Farmer has ripped the heart out of Hibs? Don't talk nonsense. Go and lie in a darkened room.

Farmer has not ripped the heart out of hibs yet but he is defo at the crossroads!! We can't go on how we are at the moment it's murder! Think it's time the board came out and said what there long term plan is because so far they are losing an alarming amount of fans with there plan so far :confused:

down the slope
02-01-2012, 03:50 PM
Did Farmer not say at the AGM that he wished he had a hundred RP's ?, he may live to regret that if we are relegated but then maybe he couldnae care less.

TheEastTerrace
02-01-2012, 03:52 PM
One thing is for sure, a big number of Hibs fans continue to swallow the spin coming from the boardroom

CmoantheHibs
02-01-2012, 03:56 PM
Farmer has ripped the heart out of Hibs? Don't talk nonsense. Go and lie in a darkened room.

Without STF there would be only 1 team in Edinburgh.It must be tough when that is the gratitude you get.

grunt
02-01-2012, 03:57 PM
We pay the 4th highest wages in the SPL.

HibsNutter
02-01-2012, 03:59 PM
Petrie has done a good job for the club. We are all hopefully grateful for what he has done for us ie. securing the future of our club. However, if we don't spend money to SIGNIFICANTLY improve the team or we may find ourselves relegated, over to you Rod..

jacomo
02-01-2012, 04:02 PM
We pay the 4th highest wages in the SPL.

Whatever the reasons for our under performance, the player budget isn't one. Hibs have spent more on the football team than plenty of teams above us.

KiddA
02-01-2012, 04:05 PM
Without STF there would be only 1 team in Edinburgh.It must be tough when that is the gratitude you get.

Not arguing that and we all appreciate it but his time is up as there is no investment in the team and the club is going down hence the heart has been ripped out of Hibs

jdships
02-01-2012, 04:06 PM
Whatever the reasons for our under performance, the player budget isn't one. Hibs have spent more on the football team than plenty of teams above us.

:agree:

grunt
02-01-2012, 04:11 PM
... his time is up as there is no investment in the team ...


We pay the 4th highest wages in the SPL.

:confused:

Golden Bear
02-01-2012, 04:13 PM
Whatever the reasons for our under performance, the player budget isn't one. Hibs have spent more on the football team than plenty of teams above us.

Absolutely correct.

Hibi
02-01-2012, 04:14 PM
I'm not quite sure how they can be accused of ripping the heart out of the club, if not mistaken I think we may have been on the brink of extinction at the time.

They have since built the club up to be the envy of most sides outside of the old firm, although unfortunately as neither are unbelievably rich sheikh's they have had to trade the assets we already had or brought through. Unfortuntately I feel that they have now built the club up to a level where expectations are now really high, a big spanking new stadium and great training facilities means we should surely be up the top of the league. Unfortunately I don't feel we have the players who can play at a club with these expectations. We have a team of pretty young guys who lack experience to handle big pressure and we have no older heads with experience who can talk and educate and help handle the pressure of a club with this set-up. Our older heads are a centre half who played lower leagues in england and thats it, unfortunately good quality players who have played at a high level will cost money and that isn't something we have in abundance but we need 2 or 3.

King Paddy
02-01-2012, 04:16 PM
Spot on mate, we are the wee team and a bloody joke.
Out played, out fought, and out thought, never felt so low
in all the years i have watched Hibs. Message to Farmer
sell up now before it get's worse. 20 odd years of your legacy
is way past your sell by date. Sick to the back teeth of watching
piss on the park. relegated in 98 and in 2012?.

KiddA
02-01-2012, 04:16 PM
Whatever the reasons for our under performance, the player budget isn't one. Hibs have spent more on the football team than plenty of teams above us.

They have in the past paid very well especially under the Mcliesh era and that showed with a good product on the park and a good fan base but now they we are paying nothing and the crowds have gone and rightly so. Any successful businessman knows that the product is the most important factor in success.

Yes they have built a great new stand and a training base but fans won't come because of this they will come when the team is playing well and not in a relegation battle every year.

KiddA
02-01-2012, 04:23 PM
I'm not quite sure how they can be accused of ripping the heart out of the club, if not mistaken I think we may have been on the brink of extinction at the time.

They have since built the club up to be the envy of most sides outside of the old firm, although unfortunately as neither are unbelievably rich sheikh's they have had to trade the assets we already had or brought through. Unfortuntately I feel that they have now built the club up to a level where expectations are now really high, a big spanking new stadium and great training facilities means we should surely be up the top of the league. Unfortunately I don't feel we have the players who can play at a club with these expectations. We have a team of pretty young guys who lack experience to handle big pressure and we have no older heads with experience who can talk and educate and help handle the pressure of a club with this set-up. Our older heads are a centre half who played lower leagues in england and thats it, unfortunately good quality players who have played at a high level will cost money and that isn't something we have in abundance but we need 2 or 3.

Yes he did save us and like I said before everyone appreciates that. Here is a question to you would you rather have a great stadium and training base before a team on the park? and a team that has not beat our biggest rivals since Mixu 9 games I believe and now in yet another relegation battle.

grunt
02-01-2012, 04:24 PM
They have in the past paid very well especially under the Mcliesh era and that showed with a good product on the park and a good fan base but now they we are paying nothing...Are you not listening or simply on the wind up? We pay more than any SPL team other than the OF and Hearts. Our staff costs have increased every year for the last 5 years despite decreases in turnover every year.

King Paddy
02-01-2012, 04:25 PM
Without STF there would be only 1 team in Edinburgh.It must be tough when that is the gratitude you get.

with or without Tom Farmer we are the wee team, who cares anymore that Farmer is loaded, we would be better off without him and Petrie running the show. By the way mate historically Farmer did not save us the BOS chose him over other interested parties.

CmoantheHibs
02-01-2012, 04:28 PM
They have in the past paid very well especially under the Mcliesh era and that showed with a good product on the park and a good fan base but now they we are paying nothing and the crowds have gone and rightly so. Any successful businessman knows that the product is the most important factor in success.

Yes they have built a great new stand and a training base but fans won't come because of this they will come when the team is playing well and not in a relegation battle every year.

As far as I am aware we still have the 4th highest wage bill for players in the league so surely its not the investment but the management of the investment that is the problem.I am sure the board dream of a successful manager as much as we do but it just hasnt happened.I know nothing of the selection process for the yearly management appointment so I dont feel qualified to criticise although questions undoubtedly must be asked about it.

KiddA
02-01-2012, 04:30 PM
Are you not listening or simply on the wind up? We pay more than any SPL team other than the OF and Hearts. Our staff costs have increased every year for the last 5 years despite decreases in turnover every year.

Are you Hibs accountant? do you know what we pay every player?

:crazy: not listening have a wee word with yourself

CmoantheHibs
02-01-2012, 04:37 PM
with or without Tom Farmer we are the wee team, who cares anymore that Farmer is loaded, we would be better off without him and Petrie running the show. By the way mate historically Farmer did not save us the BOS chose him over other interested parties.

As I remember it it was Mercer trying to buy us to merge us into a big hearts team(the death of Hibs).Then STF came in and bought us, not because of his love of Hibs but because it would have ripped the soul out of his community.Id count that as saving us.

grunt
02-01-2012, 04:41 PM
Are you Hibs accountant? do you know what we pay every player?
No I'm not! But I am looking at the club's accounts, which are sent to every shareholder. That's where I get the info about how much we spend.
No I don't know what we pay every player, I'm looking at total staff costs, comparing them against the other SPL teams.


:crazy: not listening have a wee word with yourself
I apologise - I'm sorry if I went too far, but you kept on saying that we need to invest more, when I twice posted the evidence which shows that, under Petrie and Farmer, we have continued to invest more in wages than 8 other SPL clubs. You didn't seem to respond when the evidence was presented, and that was frustrating.

Alfred E Newman
02-01-2012, 04:41 PM
with or without Tom Farmer we are the wee team, who cares anymore that Farmer is loaded, we would be better off without him and Petrie running the show. By the way mate historically Farmer did not save us the BOS chose him over other interested parties.

Better being the wee team than no team at all.

Pretty Boy
02-01-2012, 04:42 PM
Without STF there would be only 1 team in Edinburgh.It must be tough when that is the gratitude you get.

I'm as angry as anyone about today but i thibk STF must look in the mirror some mornings and wondered why he bothered with Hibs.

He has taken on a company that has made him very little if any money, dragged us out the ****, turned us into a professionally run outfit and put the infastructure in place to build success.

The thanks he gets is to be accused of ripping the heart from the club.

KiddA
02-01-2012, 04:47 PM
No I'm not! But I am looking at the club's accounts, which are sent to every shareholder. That's where I get the info about how much we spend.
No I don't know what we pay every player, I'm looking at total staff costs, comparing them against the other SPL teams.


I apologise - I'm sorry if I went too far, but you kept on saying that we need to invest more, when I twice posted the evidence which shows that, under Petrie and Farmer, we have continued to invest more in wages than 8 other SPL clubs. You didn't seem to respond when the evidence was presented, and that was frustrating.

No need to apologize I know what you are saying but staff costs is not only players and I am assuming that the back ground staff a big factor and going through 8 managers in as many years must contribute to what we pay on staff costs with the amount we have paid out in compensation.

Sumner
02-01-2012, 05:07 PM
Petrie is the problem.

Unfortunately that inplicates STF,
who for whatever reason defended
the indefensible Petrie.

HIBERNIAN-0762
02-01-2012, 05:10 PM
I'm as angry as anyone about today but i thibk STF must look in the mirror some mornings and wondered why he bothered with Hibs.

He has taken on a company that has made him very little if any money, dragged us out the ****, turned us into a professionally run outfit and put the infastructure in place to build success.

The thanks he gets is to be accused of ripping the heart from the club.

And how many years ago was that then?

Look mate no disrespect to you or him but he has put money making matters first instead of investing in the team, for the millionth time there is no point in have a state of the art training center and a shiny new stadium with that garbage that's on the park today, investment in players is a 100% priority not the other way round.

He only sees pound signs like all other businessmen and is not interested in football, what bit is it you don't get?

:confused: Leith

7Hero
02-01-2012, 05:23 PM
Both those numpties have ruined our club....

Sent from my HTC Sensation Z710e using Tapatalk

Kaiser1962
02-01-2012, 05:26 PM
And how many years ago was that then?

Look mate no disrespect to you or him but he has put money making matters first instead of investing in the team, for the millionth time there is no point in have a state of the art training center and a shiny new stadium with that garbage that's on the park today, investment in players is a 100% priority not the other way round.

He only sees pound signs like all other businessmen and is not interested in football, what bit is it you don't get?

:confused: Leith


How much has he made out of it then? Zip. It has cost him about £10m to date, and will probably cost him a lot more in the long term.

There is nobody waiting in the wings to take over, no Arab sheiks or Russian ogilarch dreaming of owning the cabbage, no queue of billionaires wanting to waste their money on a 3rd rate league, just like twenty years ago.

What bit of that dont you get?

Pretty Boy
02-01-2012, 05:29 PM
And how many years ago was that then?

Look mate no disrespect to you or him but he has put money making matters first instead of investing in the team, for the millionth time there is no point in have a state of the art training center and a shiny new stadium with that garbage that's on the park today, investment in players is a 100% priority not the other way round.

He only sees pound signs like all other businessmen and is not interested in football, what bit is it you don't get?

:confused: Leith

No, what but do you not get?

Tom Farmer saved the club, it matters not how.many years ago, we wouldn't be on this website today if he didn't.

As for the pounds sign bit, he has made almost nothing from Hibs. He as good as paid for the 2 stands behind the goals out his own pocket and the holding company made another cash injection fairly recently.

To build a successful team you need a decent infastructure, we have that. And the talk of neglecting the playing side is a myth, we have the 4th biggest budget in the SPL. The fact the team isn't performing in a relative position is at least partly down to poor football management and poor players, I will.accept the board put these men on charge so they have to take blame for that.

History will judge Tom Farmer far more kindly, thankfully, than people like.you.

DarlingtonHibee
02-01-2012, 05:29 PM
Both those numpties have ruined our club....

Sent from my HTC Sensation Z710e using Tapatalk

Dear oh dear ....

You should be ashamed to post that if you are a Hibs fan.

hibs1875
02-01-2012, 05:32 PM
Everyone goes on how stf has saved the club and how he is a saint ! What people seem to forget is the money stf has put in, has been taken back out of the club through other avenues !

Am one of the fans that recently decided i wasn't going to renew my session ticket any more because of the crap on the park and as much as it pains me to say i feel ive made the right decision !

Something has to be done soon or we are truly doomed and we will be relegated ! Now for those of you saying that because i don't go to games anymore am crippling the club ! Why should i pay my hard earned cash to hibs to watch that drivel on the park

I waited on cancelling my season tickets for over 2 seasons hoping/praying that the club would splash the cash and get some quality in but of course they didn't and they still were quite happy to keep taking my money

I was at the game today for the first time in a while and tbh i feel so depressed now i wish i hadn't gone , Its just so demoralizing watching a team i love slip deeper and deeper into the ****

time for a change ! time the board was removed and if stf is not prepared to invest its time he put Easter road on the market and for him to step down

after all if this was kwik fit that was under performing am sure he'd through the cash at it to help it through the hard times

sorry ! Rant over

Kaiser1962
02-01-2012, 05:34 PM
Both those numpties have ruined our club....

Sent from my HTC Sensation Z710e using Tapatalk

Duff and Gray ruined our club. We allowed them to sell it's soul and were fortunate, very fortunate, to survive at all.

DarlingtonHibee
02-01-2012, 05:36 PM
Everyone goes on how stf has saved the club and how he is a saint ! What people seem to forget is the money stf has put in, has been taken back out of the club through other avenues !

Am one of the fans that recently decided i wasn't going to renew my session ticket any more because of the crap on the park and as much as it pains me to say i feel ive made the right decision !

Something has to be done soon or we are truly doomed and we will be relegated ! Now for those of you saying that because i don't go to games anymore am crippling the club ! Why should i pay my hard earned cash to hibs to watch that drivel on the park

I waited on cancelling my season tickets for over 2 seasons hoping/praying that the club would splash the cash and get some quality in but of course they didn't and they still were quite happy to keep taking my money

I was at the game today for the first time in a while and tbh i feel so depressed now i wish i hadn't gone , Its just so demoralizing watching a team i love slip deeper and deeper into the ****

time for a change ! time the board was removed and if stf is not prepared to invest its time he put Easter road on the market and for him to step down

after all if this was kwik fit that was under performing am sure he'd through the cash at it to help it through the hard times

sorry ! Rant over

What "other avenues" has STF taken money out of Hibs?

What is plan B if STF sells up ?

Kaiser1962
02-01-2012, 05:36 PM
Everyone goes on how stf has saved the club and how he is a saint ! What people seem to forget is the money stf has put in, has been taken back out of the club through other avenues


Can you please provide evidence of this as it's nowhere to be seen in either the accouts of the football club or in the accounts of HFC Holdings?

Pretty Boy
02-01-2012, 05:37 PM
Everyone goes on how stf has saved the club and how he is a saint ! What people seem to forget is the money stf has put in, has been taken back out of the club through other avenues !

Am one of the fans that recently decided i wasn't going to renew my session ticket any more because of the crap on the park and as much as it pains me to say i feel ive made the right decision !

Something has to be done soon or we are truly doomed and we will be relegated ! Now for those of you saying that because i don't go to games anymore am crippling the club ! Why should i pay my hard earned cash to hibs to watch that drivel on the park

I waited on cancelling my season tickets for over 2 seasons hoping/praying that the club would splash the cash and get some quality in but of course they didn't and they still were quite happy to keep taking my money

I was at the game today for the first time in a while and tbh i feel so depressed now i wish i hadn't gone , Its just so demoralizing watching a team i love slip deeper and deeper into the ****

time for a change ! time the board was removed and if stf is not prepared to invest its time he put Easter road on the market and for him to step down

after all if this was kwik fit that was under performing am sure he'd through the cash at it to help it through the hard times

sorry ! Rant over

What avenues have been used to remove money from the club? Is this documented in the annual accounts? If yes then let's see the proof. If not and you have this kind of info I strongly urge you to go to the Police.

hibs1875
02-01-2012, 06:29 PM
I was always under the impression that HFC Holdings is owned by STF and that he’d started the company when he took over at Hibs
The reason HFC Holdings was started was to make sure that any moneys borrowed by Hibernian FC from STF would be paid back through this holding company (with interest i may add)
I was also under the impression that the car park that was once at Easter road was also sold to pay the debt owed to HFC Holdings
He also took over at that time the in house catering side of Easter road (which at that time was the only thing making a profit at Easter Road)
The above and the sale of our home grown talent over the years has brought a vast amount of wealth in to the club all of which has never been channelled back into the club (Team) leaving us in the position we’re in just now
I don’t have a plan b but i do know that plan A is not working and hasn’t been working for a number of seasons now
So what do we do!
Keep going the way it’s going just now and hope and pray that PF can pull us through! (let’s not kid ourselves here it’s not going to happen without investment)
Actively look for new investment (are the board currently doing so?) How would we the fans know they never tell us anything?
Test the market and see if there’s a rich fairy godmother that may just invest in our club and be willing to try at least and make us better!
What we all agree on is that investment is needed in the Team and if STF doesn’t want to make that investment it’s time to find someone who does,

P.S If am wrong about any information above! I do apologise

greenlex
02-01-2012, 07:07 PM
with or without Tom Farmer we are the wee team, who cares anymore that Farmer is loaded, we would be better off without him and Petrie running the show. By the way mate historically Farmer did not save us the BOS chose him over other interested parties.
You should try and e-mail them and ask what they have ever done for us. Be sure and let us all know how you get on though.:aok:

JimBHibees
02-01-2012, 07:13 PM
Pay peanuts and this is what you get.

Our club is ####ed

Rant over

Fek me do we get one of these threads after every game.

Viva_Palmeiras
02-01-2012, 07:13 PM
Pay peanuts and this is what you get.

Our club is ####ed

Rant over

The flipside is Hearts what's the prognosis there?

DarlingtonHibee
02-01-2012, 07:17 PM
with or without Tom Farmer we are the wee team, who cares anymore that Farmer is loaded, we would be better off without him and Petrie running the show. By the way mate historically Farmer did not save us the BOS chose him over other interested parties.

King Paddy, can you tell us the other intrested parties who had Hibs best interest's in their business plan ?

You really think we would be better off without STF and RP ?

In my view if that was the case, we would be facing the same financial issues that Hearts have.

It has been a poor day, to me the gap seems to be around the players being to comfortable - I don't thing Moyes or Ferguson could get that team up for a derby.

I think the whole package structure needs to be reviewed for the squad - lets get them more hungry.

Famous Fiver
02-01-2012, 07:26 PM
To get to their level we need to spend £70 Million. (Vlad's own figure)

Any candidates out there ready to put up that kind of money? I don't think so.
I would rather be in my own skin tonight than theirs.

Sammy7nil
02-01-2012, 07:27 PM
Something I dont say on here very often


GTF ya Yam fud :kbacker:

Stupid post :rolleyes::rolleyes::rolleyes:

Kaiser1962
02-01-2012, 07:31 PM
Stupid post :rolleyes::rolleyes::rolleyes:


How is it?

All that stuff has been done to death on here on here. He brings up the car park FFS? He's either a Yam at the wind up or he's clinically stupid.

He spouts that pish and you reckon I do the stupid post? Aye right.

IWasThere2016
02-01-2012, 07:35 PM
Can you please provide evidence of this as it's nowhere to be seen in either the accouts of the football club or in the accounts of HFC Holdings?

Do you have the accounts for the Holding Co?

Sammy7nil
02-01-2012, 07:36 PM
How is it?

All that stuff has been done to death on here on here. He brings up the car park FFS? He's either a Yam at the wind up or he's clinically stupid.

He spouts that pish and you reckon I do the stupid post? Aye right.

I think your post was OTT anyone with only a few posts on here is accused of being a Jambo and I think if you read his post your response was harsh at Best.

SanFranHibs
02-01-2012, 07:41 PM
I do not think the balme can be placed on any one person but I do sometimes think that although we have great facilities Farmer would not accept another business having modern and eye pleasing facilities and a 'great' business manager, i.e. RP, if the product that left the shop was garbage. Like going to a big fancy salesroom and buying an old banger that breaks down as soon as it leaves the shop!

STF now has a business whith a poor product and the bottom line reflects this. Less bums on seats.

I do accept that the solution is not as simple as some like to think. Although it is an oft sung refrain at Easter Road I do think we need to give our new manager time to develop his team. We can't keep changing every year or so. When RP appointed Mixu, Collins etc there were lot's of fans happy with such choices.

I do think from all reports and views that the first thing we need is to get a decent defence put together. First things first. Our defence sucks.

I do not think that throwing money at overpriced players is the solution but we do need to somehow get a defence put together.

A real depressing situation though.

Kaiser1962
02-01-2012, 07:48 PM
I think your post was OTT anyone with only a few posts on here is accused of being a Jambo and I think if you read his post your response was harsh at Best.

Point taken and I apologise.

I would, in my defence, point to the amount of negative inaccuracies in the post.

DarlingtonHibee
02-01-2012, 07:51 PM
Do you have the accounts for the Holding Co?

TQM, Kaiser is asking the poster to qualify his remarks re STF making profit from Hibs via another company.

IWasThere2016
02-01-2012, 07:53 PM
TQM, Kaiser is asking the poster to qualify his remarks re STF making profit from Hibs via another company.

I know that :wink: - I'd like to see the Holding Co's latest accs and know how much cash it has.

hibs1875
02-01-2012, 08:01 PM
“Can you please provide evidence of this as it's nowhere to be seen in either the accouts of the football club or in the accounts of HFC Holdings?” Kaiser1962

Actually Kaiser i wasn’t bring up any car park issues but you did ask about moneys leaving Hibernian Fc and were they had gone ! So i thought i would obliged you with a answer !

I think you’ll find that STF has put money into Hibs but has also had his just rewards out at the same time ! Which of course was the point i was making !

The problems faced at Easter road has not only happened over night and has been a combination of events over years of miss-direction by the board,

Investment should of been made in the team a long time ago ! After all football is a results business


P.s here is a link what i was talking about http://www.football-finances.org.uk/hibs/2008/debts.htm

DarlingtonHibee
02-01-2012, 08:01 PM
I know that :wink: - I'd like to see the Holding Co's latest accs and know how much cash it has.

TQM - simple question - do you believe STF and, or RP have taken a penny from Hibs that is dishonest.

Yes or no- nothing else please

ScottB
02-01-2012, 08:08 PM
Can we stop this utter nonsense of us paying peanuts please?

We have spent badly, no question, but we've probably spent too much as it is.

Aubenas
02-01-2012, 08:08 PM
All the owner can do with any certainty is to make sure the club is financially secure - that is, that it doesn't make such big losses that its existence is in danger. Virtually every other SPL club has proved how difficult this is to achieve, but Hibs have managed it.

The success on the park bit is down to a mix of skill, luck and circumstance and the owner can't control this. It's the fortune element that makes sport unpredictable and therefore exciting. STF and Petrie have been successful in everything they have direct control over. Picking a manager is a lottery - you see the proof throughout the leagues month after month. If the chemistry works, the team gets success, if it doesn't, failure. Look at Sturrock - hero and treasure at Plymouth, joke at Southampton, Martin Jol at Tottenham, Mogga at Parkhead as opposed to Middlesbrough. Hibs have gone through a crap four or five years. It happens. Even though we are amongst the biggest spenders in the SPL, it hasn't worked. It happens. Our turn will come again - that's what all the evidence shows. In the meantime we can support the team or go and play golf and wait till we like the results better. One thing is clear. No Farmer, no security. His backing ensures the club exists. You may not like it but it's the truth of the matter, and there's nobody else willing to take us on.

Kaiser1962
02-01-2012, 08:09 PM
Do you have the accounts for the Holding Co?

I purchased a set a while ago, at the height of one of the "Farmer is a carpetbagger threads" and there was nothing to see. There was a balance of just over a £1m as cash at the bank which accrued interest and their only other sources of income were rent from the ticket office and interest on a £250k loan which has been discussed on here, and appears to have been there for a while. About £25k-£30k in total if I recall correctly. Probably paid for the paperwork fees and the pies.

Again, at the height of one of the Farmer-fests Caversham Green looked at the holding companies accounts for evidence that Farmer/Petrie were milking the FC but none was found. On the contrary, the Holding company does not trade with anyone other than the football club and the only thing that showed at the time was a £5m preference share which does not show anymore as this appears to have been transferred, initially to Maidencraig Investments but has since been transferred again to Morston. Both those companies are Farmer companies so it looks like a DFE swap (£5,760,000) if you like, long before it became hip to do so which, it was concluded, did not attract interest but may require paying when the stadium/ground/FC is sold.

Kaiser1962
02-01-2012, 08:15 PM
I know that :wink: - I'd like to see the Holding Co's latest accs and know how much cash it has.


I dont have the latest accounts but I would imagine that the £1m+ that was sitting there, gathering interest , is no longer there :greengrin

Kaiser1962
02-01-2012, 08:20 PM
Can I point you in the direction of this article. http://www.scotsman.com/sport/football/european/hibs_reveal_full_extent_of_farmer_s_investment_1_6 57866 If you would also look in the "vault" you will find a thread detailing exactly what happened to the money from the sale of teh car park, since you mentioned it.Then tell me how Farmer has gained anything from his involvement to date? And where its came from? I look forward to your response.
“Can you please provide evidence of this as it's nowhere to be seen in either the accouts of the football club or in the accounts of HFC Holdings?” Kaiser1962 Actually Kaiser i wasn’t bring up any car park issues but you did ask about moneys leaving Hibernian Fc and were they had gone ! So i thought i would obliged you with a answer !I think you’ll find that STF has put money into Hibs but has also had his just rewards out at the same time ! Which of course was the point i was making !The problems faced at Easter road has not only happened over night and has been a combination of events over years of miss-direction by the board,Investment should of been made in the team a long time ago ! After all football is a results business P.s here is a link what i was talking about http://www.football-finances.org.uk/hibs/2008/debts.htm

NAE NOOKIE
02-01-2012, 08:23 PM
Who gives a toss about the for and against arguments with regards to Petrie and Farmer.

The bottom line is that this group of players are **** and that as usual ( for 2 and a lot more years now ) they were out played by a bunch of journeymen Yams who didnt even need to have derby day attitude because just by playing average football they could easily beat us.

My partner is currently looking at me with a mixture or pity and distaine because of my reaction to todays result. I.E. I Was literally in tears when she picked me up from the pub in Gala due to once again Hibs letting me down in a derby. Aye, drink was a factor, but for F sake I'm 51 years old !!! When are my football club going to get the ****ing finger out.

So sorry ...... But as far as I'm concerned Sir Tom Farmer and his Lacky Petrie can off, because I for one am fed up of having to watch Hearts fans having a good time at Easter Road at my expense for the umpteenth time in the last 10 years.



AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA RRRRRRRRRRRRRRRR GGGGGGGGG !!!!!!!!!

nortonhibby
02-01-2012, 08:30 PM
Did Farmer not say at the AGM that he wished he had a hundred RP's ?, he may live to regret that if we are relegated but then maybe he couldnae care less.

He is happy with RP Running things because the club is self sufficient therefor Farmer does not need to dip into his pocket to fund the Club.

RP Runs a very tight ship and by flogging every sellable player we have had in the last 5 years and using all the money on the stadium the training facilities and The Boards wages with minimum investment in the on field product the years of neglect have taken us to where we are now.

To revers years of neglect in a short period of time is impossible unless there is another batch of top quality youngsters to come through again.

With the financial loss last year and the money wasted by CC We have to ask the question does RP Actually have money to spend ? probably not or not much anyway.

So unless Farmer chips in with a few million this month we are Donald ducked as for the blame well im sure RP Thought he would have players to sell that were brought through when he worked out his 5 year plan unfortunatly there is not one player at the club worth a carrot.

NAE NOOKIE
02-01-2012, 08:37 PM
For some reason the bad words filter removed a whole paragraph from my last post, so I am adding this just to say that I stand by every removed word regarding the current owner and his lacky .............. !!!


Anybody who doesnt agree ......... Bring it @@@@@@ on

Eyrie
02-01-2012, 08:50 PM
RP Runs a very tight ship and by flogging every sellable player we have had in the last 5 years and using all the money on the stadium the training facilities and The Boards wages with minimum investment in the on field product the years of neglect have taken us to where we are now.

That minimum investment by the board is a disgrace. They could at least have given us the fourth largest player budget in the SPL and backed successive managers in their bids to improve the squad.

Peevemor
02-01-2012, 09:03 PM
He is happy with RP Running things because the club is self sufficient therefor Farmer does not need to dip into his pocket to fund the Club.

RP Runs a very tight ship and by flogging every sellable player we have had in the last 5 years and using all the money on the stadium the training facilities and The Boards wages with minimum investment in the on field product the years of neglect have taken us to where we are now.

To revers years of neglect in a short period of time is impossible unless there is another batch of top quality youngsters to come through again.

With the financial loss last year and the money wasted by CC We have to ask the question does RP Actually have money to spend ? probably not or not much anyway.

So unless Farmer chips in with a few million this month we are Donald ducked as for the blame well im sure RP Thought he would have players to sell that were brought through when he worked out his 5 year plan unfortunatly there is not one player at the club worth a carrot.

:yawn:

Halifaxhibby
02-01-2012, 09:28 PM
I think this is a slightly exaggerated statement to be honest, don't get me wrong i'm hurting just as much as the rest of you after witnessing that turkish delight today, we will forever be in debt to STF for being our knight in shining armour and i truly believe he has the best interests of the club at heart. He said all along he didn't want to be involved in the football side of things and has always remained as a sort of silent investor.
However, RP is one of the best paid chairman in Scotland and his immediate underlings do pretty well finincially also, RP is not and never was a footballing man, i don't doubt he is a Hibs supporter and cheers them on like the rest of us, the financial side of the club is in an excellent position, however, football is very different to other businesses, a fact RP has overlooked significantly, he sacrificed the playing side of things to build the training academy( the fruition of which is hee haw so far!! but thats another point!) finish our stadium off and keep the debt to a minimum. I have to say this is applaudable especially in todays current financial climate.
RP has though failed to realise the inextricable link between a watchable playing side and a steady profitable regular attendance. Now he's in real bother, he has taken the club as far as he can now financially, he doesn't have the ability to take us to the next level where the teams performance, regular cup runs and a top six finish(3 points i believe are not too ambitious) bring back the fans in droves. Yet again we hear outwith the old firm we are the most expensive club to watch and have something to eat or drink. Folk are sick of it now, overpriced rubbish, a team full of journeymen at best and a dreadful work ethic, not a leader among them.

I for one appreciate STF and RP's efforts up until now, but the ship is definitely sinking now. If RP has the testicular fortitude to get us out of this mess then now is the time to act before this once great sleeping giant of a football club finally has the plug pulled on it. Time for action gentlemen please!!!!!.

On a final note, even though we are utter garbage on the park at the moment, I wouldn't swap nearly 40 million worth of debt and a dump of a stadium for that crap hearts call a team!!, any jambo who is sitting delighted with the result today should take note. Your day is nearly upon you!! and i will be first in the queue to stand and laugh my plums off.

Over and out.

GGTTH!!!!

nortonhibby
02-01-2012, 09:31 PM
That minimum investment by the board is a disgrace. They could at least have given us the fourth largest player budget in the SPL and backed successive managers in their bids to improve the squad.


Out side of Celtic Rangers and the PBS Lot ( and look at the mess financially they are in ) nae other club has got a carrot to spend so your backing of RP Is a joke anyway all the money spent has been wasted and the dross on the park today is the out come

What has this big 4th best investment achieved:pfgwa ?

ronaldo7
02-01-2012, 09:42 PM
Can someone prove that Hertz got their £100k in win bonuses today?

No...

Just like they dinnae ken whits goan on likesay.

Malthibby
02-01-2012, 09:51 PM
Don't understand the bile about STF & RF - & I detest losing against Hearts & i detest the pain of the last 5 years, they almost certainly (okay, remove the certaainly) have made mistakes
but there is no alternative at the moment & I will not dish (that's apparently cool young stuff) the people wh saved us.
We need to hope Fenlon will bring it around & we need to give him time, we have spent far too much time ploughing through managers & players & we need to get settled. Guys like Booth
& Wotherspoon are good playes but they are running on empty, nae confidence or belief & we need to settle, on a manager & a system & keep the faith.
Let's make sure we fill Dunfermline next week & give the teaam the support they need to get the win we really really need.
GG

ScottB
02-01-2012, 10:01 PM
Out side of Celtic Rangers and the PBS Lot ( and look at the mess financially they are in ) nae other club has got a carrot to spend so your backing of RP Is a joke anyway all the money spent has been wasted and the dross on the park today is the out come

What has this big 4th best investment achieved:pfgwa ?

Wait, have we spent nothing, or have we wasted what we've spent?

To suggest we've spent nothing is total, utter nonsense. And to suggest that throwing more cash at our situation is some great and easy fix is even bigger nonsense. How much are Motherwell spending in comparison? Or St Johnstone?


As for us selling off players over the years, well come on? Does anybody think we could still have had a squad composed of Brown, Murphy, Thomson et all if we didn't have Petrie in charge? Decent players will always leave us. End of story. We should try and keep them as long as we can and get top dollar for them when they do go. I'm struggling to think of anyone we could have kept longer or gotten a better deal for when they did to be honest.


Our failing has been spending badly, no question. Not a lack of spending. But then unless you imagine that every players we've signed in the last 2 seasons was personally chosen by Rod, you can't blame him for that, only for putting his trust in a succession of managers that couldn't spot a decent player if they kicked them across the face.

nortonhibby
02-01-2012, 10:11 PM
Wait, have we spent nothing, or have we wasted what we've spent?

To suggest we've spent nothing is total, utter nonsense. And to suggest that throwing more cash at our situation is some great and easy fix is even bigger nonsense. How much are Motherwell spending in comparison? Or St Johnstone?


As for us selling off players over the years, well come on? Does anybody think we could still have had a squad composed of Brown, Murphy, Thomson et all if we didn't have Petrie in charge? Decent players will always leave us. End of story. We should try and keep them as long as we can and get top dollar for them when they do go. I'm struggling to think of anyone we could have kept longer or gotten a better deal for when they did to be honest.


Our failing has been spending badly, no question. Not a lack of spending. But then unless you imagine that every players we've signed in the last 2 seasons was personally chosen by Rod, you can't blame him for that, only for putting his trust in a succession of managers that couldn't spot a decent player if they kicked them across the face.

Fair point and good post but who chose the managers:rolleyes: to waste the money and do we have 1 player that is a sellable asset.

sorry im both angry and severely p ----d off right now. what a mess we are in.

ScottB
02-01-2012, 10:33 PM
Fair point and good post but who chose the managers:rolleyes: to waste the money and do we have 1 player that is a sellable asset.

sorry im both angry and severely p ----d off right now. what a mess we are in.

Oh indeed, the picking of managers is what you can blame Petrie for, to my mind he has backed them to bring in players, just for the most part, those players have bombed...

Eyrie
02-01-2012, 10:51 PM
Fair point and good post but who chose the managers:rolleyes: to waste the money and do we have 1 player that is a sellable asset.

sorry im both angry and severely p ----d off right now. what a mess we are in.
Now all of that I can agree with.

For what it's worth (which is the square root of sod all) I have faith that we finally have a decent manager in place.

Kaiser1962
03-01-2012, 08:42 AM
He is happy with RP Running things because the club is self sufficient therefor Farmer does not need to dip into his pocket to fund the Club.


This is nonsense.

Caversham Green
03-01-2012, 10:15 AM
I purchased a set a while ago, at the height of one of the "Farmer is a carpetbagger threads" and there was nothing to see. There was a balance of just over a £1m as cash at the bank which accrued interest and their only other sources of income were rent from the ticket office and interest on a £250k loan which has been discussed on here, and appears to have been there for a while. About £25k-£30k in total if I recall correctly. Probably paid for the paperwork fees and the pies.

Again, at the height of one of the Farmer-fests Caversham Green looked at the holding companies accounts for evidence that Farmer/Petrie were milking the FC but none was found. On the contrary, the Holding company does not trade with anyone other than the football club and the only thing that showed at the time was a £5m preference share which does not show anymore as this appears to have been transferred, initially to Maidencraig Investments but has since been transferred again to Morston. Both those companies are Farmer companies so it looks like a DFE swap (£5,760,000) if you like, long before it became hip to do so which, it was concluded, did not attract interest but may require paying when the stadium/ground/FC is sold.

To clarify the second paragraph here, the £5.76m was a loan to the club from the holding company that was written off following the sale of the car park. It's a different issue from the £5m preference shares which were initially an investment by Morston Securities Ltd which is a Farmer company, but not included in the Hibernian group. As part of a group reconstruction Morston sold these shares into the Hibernian group in 2009 for £1 - effectively writing off the liability.

The last HFC Holdings accounts I have are 2009 - these show a profit of £11k, cash in hand of £1.83m and accummulated losses of £1.9m. The 2011 accounts haven't been filed yet, but I'll get a copy when they are available. CBA getting the 2010 ones.

IWasThere2016
03-01-2012, 10:20 AM
To clarify the second paragraph here, the £5.76m was a loan to the club from the holding company that was written off following the sale of the car park. It's a different issue from the £5m preference shares which were initially an investment by Morston Securities Ltd which is a Farmer company, but not included in the Hibernian group. As part of a group reconstruction Morston sold these shares into the Hibernian group in 2009 for £1 - effectively writing off the liability.

The last HFC Holdings accounts I have are 2009 - these show a profit of £11k, cash in hand of £1.83m and accummulated losses of £1.9m. The 2011 accounts haven't been filed yet, but I'll get a copy when they are available. CBA getting the 2010 ones.

Cheers C. It will be interesting to see when (eg exact date) of the most recent loan to Hibs was made

Lucius Apuleius
03-01-2012, 10:23 AM
All the owner can do with any certainty is to make sure the club is financially secure - that is, that it doesn't make such big losses that its existence is in danger. Virtually every other SPL club has proved how difficult this is to achieve, but Hibs have managed it.

The success on the park bit is down to a mix of skill, luck and circumstance and the owner can't control this. It's the fortune element that makes sport unpredictable and therefore exciting. STF and Petrie have been successful in everything they have direct control over. Picking a manager is a lottery - you see the proof throughout the leagues month after month. If the chemistry works, the team gets success, if it doesn't, failure. Look at Sturrock - hero and treasure at Plymouth, joke at Southampton, Martin Jol at Tottenham, Mogga at Parkhead as opposed to Middlesbrough. Hibs have gone through a crap four or five years. It happens. Even though we are amongst the biggest spenders in the SPL, it hasn't worked. It happens. Our turn will come again - that's what all the evidence shows. In the meantime we can support the team or go and play golf and wait till we like the results better. One thing is clear. No Farmer, no security. His backing ensures the club exists. You may not like it but it's the truth of the matter, and there's nobody else willing to take us on.

Far too sensible mate. Unfortunately does not agree with the conspiracy theorists and the let's throw a few million at the problem brigade. I have great faith that things will turn around. Getting the infrastructure in place was in my opinion 100% the correct thing to do. The money could then be spent on the team. Unfortunately a combination of circumstances, global financial situation, bad management, bad buys, have led us to where we are. RP is never going to be popular with a large percentage of the support. There will also always be a large contingent calling on STF to invest or leave. Why the help should he throw money down a drain? Football teams do not make money. The best you can hope for is to live within our means. We have not achieved that in the last couple of years iirc. Going deeper in debt is not the answer.

GGTTH.

Kaiser1962
03-01-2012, 10:27 AM
To clarify the second paragraph here, the £5.76m was a loan to the club from the holding company that was written off following the sale of the car park. It's a different issue from the £5m preference shares which were initially an investment by Morston Securities Ltd which is a Farmer company, but not included in the Hibernian group. As part of a group reconstruction Morston sold these shares into the Hibernian group in 2009 for £1 - effectively writing off the liability.

The last HFC Holdings accounts I have are 2009 - these show a profit of £11k, cash in hand of £1.83m and accummulated losses of £1.9m. The 2011 accounts haven't been filed yet, but I'll get a copy when they are available. CBA getting the 2010 ones.


Thanks for that C and apologies for not keeping up.

Caversham Green
03-01-2012, 10:30 AM
Cheers C. It will be interesting to see when (eg exact date) of the most recent loan to Hibs was made

I'm afraid we won't get that - it'll just be the opposite entry from the one in the club's accounts. My guess is that it was advanced for part of the cost of the East Stand.

Strictly speaking, it's not a loan in that it's described as an 'amount due to parent company' and isn't included in the net debt figure and doesn't bear interest.

Steve-O
03-01-2012, 10:38 AM
I'd like to know exactly how much more we pay than the other teams. There is no way it can be a significant amount so its pointless banging on about it IMO.

Caversham Green
03-01-2012, 10:57 AM
I'd like to know exactly how much more we pay than the other teams. There is no way it can be a significant amount so its pointless banging on about it IMO.

Roughly the same as Aberdeen - it varies year on year as to who pays the most, about £1m more than the Arabs, £1.2m more than Well and the same or more for the rest. It's difficult to say with Killie as they include hotel staff in their wages figure, but their total wages figure is a bit less that ours.

BEEJ
03-01-2012, 11:43 AM
The success on the park bit is down to a mix of skill, luck and circumstance and the owner can't control this.

It's the fortune element that makes sport unpredictable and therefore exciting. STF and Petrie have been successful in everything they have direct control over. Picking a manager is a lottery - you see the proof throughout the leagues month after month. If the chemistry works, the team gets success, if it doesn't, failure. Look at Sturrock - hero and treasure at Plymouth, joke at Southampton, Martin Jol at Tottenham, Mogga at Parkhead as opposed to Middlesbrough.

Hibs have gone through a crap four or five years. It happens. Even though we are amongst the biggest spenders in the SPL, it hasn't worked. It happens. Our turn will come again - that's what all the evidence shows.

A valid point but a bit overstated. If that much of Manager and hence player selection is down to fortune and Hibs are therefore just on a seemingly interminable run of bad luck, what do we need all our Directors for? You make football manager recruitment sound like a glorified lottery.

Luck clearly plays a part, but much less so than you make out. If I'm wrong and you're right then there are hundreds of candidates for SL's job on here who will tackle his job for a fraction of his salary.

IWasThere2016
03-01-2012, 11:56 AM
I'm afraid we won't get that - it'll just be the opposite entry from the one in the club's accounts. My guess is that it was advanced for part of the cost of the East Stand.

Strictly speaking, it's not a loan in that it's described as an 'amount due to parent company' and isn't included in the net debt figure and doesn't bear interest.

Sure - personally I'd disclose the date.

KiddA
21-01-2012, 06:01 PM
Thanks for ruining my weekend again Hibs. Just managed to #### my laptop up after they scored the second goal.

When is this hellish nightmare going to end :grr:

I know there is more important things in life and Hibs dont pay my bills but they are very hard to watch right now.

Again the club needs change from top to bottom but there will be no change.

--------
21-01-2012, 06:47 PM
Can we stop this utter nonsense of us paying peanuts please?

We have spent badly, no question, but we've probably spent too much as it is.

This is true. It's not that the people at the top of the club are mean.

They spend money.

It's just that in terms of running a football club and putting a decent team on the park the money they spend doesn't seem to be spent effectively.

IN fact, to me they appear to be incompetent. (I wouldn't let either Farmer or Petrie do my weekly shopping at the supermarket - I'd starve to bloody death.)

Or maybe they don't actually care.

One or the other. Maybe both. I'm reaching the place where I DON'T FREAKIN CARE. They need to either wise up or get lost.




Thanks for ruining my weekend again Hibs. Just managed to #### my laptop up after they scored the second goal.

When is this hellish nightmare going to end :grr:

I know there is more important things in life and Hibs dont pay my bills but they are very hard to watch right now.

Again the club needs change from top to bottom but there will be no change.


The state of Hibs right now is as if Tesco built a brand-new state of the art supermarket and then stocked it with goods that were all past their sell-by date. The infrastructure's great. The product stinks, and has done so for a very long time now.

Farmer is the owner. He put in Petrie. He thinks Petrie is the Very Best Football Club Chairman That Ever Was. Which is bull****. Petrie isn't a football man - he's a bean-counter. Farmer is happy with him being a bean-counter, because Farmer's view of things sees counting beans as very, very important - more important than winning football matches. Petrie's making a mockery of the Hibs team - OH YES, we have a new stadium, but we can't buy a win there against anybody in the SPL; and a state-of-the-art training-ground that seems to be doing us no good at all.

BIG FURRY DEAL. I no longer care how much STF did for us 20 years ago. As far as I'm concerned, he's doing for us now - him and his incomparably brilliant side-kick Rod Petrie. I don't care how tidy the accounts look, or whether the sums add up. Hibs are about football - and in the end of the day ONLY the football counts.

Which bit of THAT is so hard for our White Knight and his Sancho Panza to understand?

As things stand tonight, we're favourites to go down in May. Last time that happened, the chairman, CEO whatever he called himself, walked. That was Lex Gold. Any chance of Petrie accepting the responsibility and walking this time around? Any chance of Farmer finally waking up and realising that it doesn't really matter what the stadium looks like, or what the facilities are like behind the scenes. Personally, I'm not holding my breath.

All that matters is what happens ON THE PITCH on match-days. STF and RP and the rest of the board need to get THAT into their skulls now, before it's too late. Otherwise it'll be Easter Road they're building flats on, not Tynie.