Pat - please don't sign anyone in the January window

[RIP]

The only players available will be the ones other teams want to dump

it will unsettle a squad that badly needs a settled formation

They are unlikely to arrive fit and we don't need more unfit players

Save the money for better coaches, particularly fitness, diet and tactics. Split the squad into small groups and focus on developing character and discipline.

And if Fenlon can't improve these deficiencies he shouldn't be left unsupported to keep us in the spl. Bring in a dof

[TowerHibs]

Your a weird one ;)

[Dunbar Hibee]

You may as well have called this thread 'Fenlon please make sure we get relegated'

[erin go bragh]

The only players available will be the ones other teams want to dump

it will unsettle a squad that badly needs a settled formation

They are unlikely to arrive fit and we don't need more unfit players

Save the money for better coaches, particularly fitness, diet and tactics. Split the squad into small groups and focus on developing character and discipline.

And if Fenlon can't improve these deficiencies he should be left to keep us in the spl. Bring in a dof

What ? If we dont sign any players in january we will go down .



ggtth

[PaulSmith]

Strange.

[Cropley10]

Bring in a dof

1. I thought we already had one.

2. How much would one cost and how do we afford him?

3. How many other SPL or even SFL teams have someone in the same role?

4. What would he actually do, and who is already doing this work today?

5. How does a dof sort out the lack of creativity, or the problem we STILL have at right back? These problems exist TODAY and unless resolved will lead to us being relegated.

[SMAXXA]

The only players available will be the ones other teams want to dump

it will unsettle a squad that badly needs a settled formation

They are unlikely to arrive fit and we don't need more unfit players

Save the money for better coaches, particularly fitness, diet and tactics. Split the squad into small groups and focus on developing character and discipline.

And if Fenlon can't improve these deficiencies he should be left to keep us in the spl. Bring in a dof

I think thats exactly what this squad needs unsettled fresh blood and a kick up the erche cause they know other players are there to take their place.

Strange post mate but each to their own.

[Franck Stanton]

Let this be a warning to everyone - see too much alcohol does rot your brain. No sign anyone in Jan window? Have a word mate, even other teams unfit cast-offs are better than the keek we have.

[R'Albin]

Okay....:confused:

[Cropley10]

Let this be a warning to everyone - see too much alcohol does rot your brain. No sign anyone in Jan window? Have a word mate, even other teams unfit cast-offs are better than the keek we have.

Lets hope one or two of those cast-offs are from the 'Big Team' eh Eric:aok:

[Captain Trips]

There is method in the madness Gogs,but we do need to get in some players and I do not think we will even come close to sorting things out in January but some steps need to be made, I would make sure that anyone I was looking at would be a player to help out this term and for a few more, stop gaps and a another ruck of players leaving at seasons end and in 12mths is not going to do enough.

[KeithTheHibby]

The only players available will be the ones other teams want to dump

it will unsettle a squad that badly needs a settled formation

They are unlikely to arrive fit and we don't need more unfit players

Save the money for better coaches, particularly fitness, diet and tactics. Split the squad into small groups and focus on developing character and discipline.

And if Fenlon can't improve these deficiencies he should be left to keep us in the spl. Bring in a dof

Nice to see most rediculous post of the year has been saved till 29th December.

I would rather we spent the money on players with proven ability and courage rather than wasting it on trying to change the players we have.

[Scouse Hibee]

The only players available will be the ones other teams want to dump

it will unsettle a squad that badly needs a settled formation

They are unlikely to arrive fit and we don't need more unfit players

Save the money for better coaches, particularly fitness, diet and tactics. Split the squad into small groups and focus on developing character and discipline.

And if Fenlon can't improve these deficiencies he should be left to keep us in the spl. Bring in a dof


Nice try Rod but we're not buying it. :wink:

[Captain Trips]

Nice to see most rediculous post of the year has been saved till 29th December.

I would rather we spent the money on players with proven ability and courage rather than wasting it on trying to change the players we have.

Bit in bold I agree with he has to sign quality not folk for 5mths who may have mind elsewhere commitment in your own future as a player is needed. If Pat can source 3 or 4 players this window prepared to commit to Hibs and us to them then go for it Pat. Darryl Duffys and Jonathan Grounds type buys etc etc will have us down if we go there in January.

[Sir David Gray]

If we don't sign anyone else in January, we will almost certainly be a first division club in five months' time.

[greenlex]

What happens if our new DOF is ******? Do we start going through them every 18 months or do they get a bit longer?

[Captain Trips]

What happens if our new DOF is ******? Do we start going through them every 18 months or do they get a bit longer?

Perhaps, everyone upto the team manager get some sort of timescale everyone above seems to get from one blunder to another over a period of years, so perhaps DOF would also be beyond reproach.

[bingo70]

Op has taken too much stick imo.

I think in principle, improving what we've got is a better way to go instead of just replacing pish players with what will most likely be more pish players so I think an organised and motivated team will do better than a team that is constantly changing

That said we do desperately need some quality in midfield and at right back but I wouldn't want any more than about 2 or 3 new signings

[nortonhibby]

The only players available will be the ones other teams want to dump

it will unsettle a squad that badly needs a settled formation

They are unlikely to arrive fit and we don't need more unfit players

Save the money for better coaches, particularly fitness, diet and tactics. Split the squad into small groups and focus on developing character and discipline.

And if Fenlon can't improve these deficiencies he should be left to keep us in the spl. Bring in a dof

RP Would like you:aok:

[bigwheel]

The only players available will be the ones other teams want to dump

it will unsettle a squad that badly needs a settled formation

They are unlikely to arrive fit and we don't need more unfit players

Save the money for better coaches, particularly fitness, diet and tactics. Split the squad into small groups and focus on developing character and discipline.

And if Fenlon can't improve these deficiencies he should be left to keep us in the spl. Bring in a dof

I think there is something in the spirit of this post - but anyone who has seen this team recently must realise they players need help on the pitch...we need two or three additions, even on loan, to bring some quality.....

[jdships]

If we don't sign anyone else in January, we will almost certainly be a first division club in five months' time.

Says it all for me :agree:
We are now in the simple position of having to trust PF will keep us in SPL this season
What happens after that is another matter :rolleyes:

[DC_Hibs]

Nurse.........

[Kaiser1962]

The only players available will be the ones other teams want to dump

it will unsettle a squad that badly needs a settled formation

They are unlikely to arrive fit and we don't need more unfit players

Save the money for better coaches, particularly fitness, diet and tactics. Split the squad into small groups and focus on developing character and discipline.

And if Fenlon can't improve these deficiencies he should be left to keep us in the spl. Bring in a dof


We have had one before. Can you remember how that went?

[Hibercelona]

We need new signings.

But i'd much rather we brought in a few decent players with a bit of quality, instead of attempting to replace all the p!sh at once.

[frazeHFC]

I reckon we will stay up with this squad. I know what the OP is meaning. I would rather we got 10th or 11th and then signed good players in the summer, rather than sign poorer players in January when we are not exactly going to improve by miles and get better than 6th or 7th.

[BroxburnHibee]

The only players available will be the ones other teams want to dump

it will unsettle a squad that badly needs a settled formation

They are unlikely to arrive fit and we don't need more unfit players

Save the money for better coaches, particularly fitness, diet and tactics. Split the squad into small groups and focus on developing character and discipline.

And if Fenlon can't improve these deficiencies he should be left to keep us in the spl. Bring in a dof

Are you for real - you just deleted another thread making exactly the same point!!!!!!!!!????????

Anyone who's watched Hibs this season could tell you we are drastically short of any quality - if you seriously think we will stay up with that squad then you've lost it big style.

Hibs problems stem from the quantity NOT quality signing policy - that needs to change.

[Andy74]

I reckon we will stay up with this squad. I know what the OP is meaning. I would rather we got 10th or 11th and then signed good players in the summer, rather than sign poorer players in January when we are not exactly going to improve by miles and get better than 6th or 7th.

I know what he means too. He wants a long term plan where the manager is just a coach, we have a Director of Football who presumably stays regardless and we develop over time a style that operates from top to bottom.

Unfortunately this is not the time or place to really start this as this squad are awful and the manager needs to concentrate on winning games in whatever way he can.

You often get better value in the summer but this doesn't mean there aren't also players who would be available now.

[Alfred E Newman]

There is no doubt this squad is awful and desperately needs strengthening but I think what the OP is trying to say is that there is no point getting rid of one duffer to replace him with someone elses duffer. It is traditionally difficult to aquire real quality in the Jan window without splashing the cash and there lies the problem but whether Fenlon can manage to keep us above Dunfermline with the current squad is another question.

[silverhibee]

The only players available will be the ones other teams want to dump

it will unsettle a squad that badly needs a settled formation

They are unlikely to arrive fit and we don't need more unfit players

Save the money for better coaches, particularly fitness, diet and tactics. Split the squad into small groups and focus on developing character and discipline.

And if Fenlon can't improve these deficiencies he should be left to keep us in the spl. Bring in a dof


Thought we had one.

By the way if we dont sign anyone then we will be in the 1st Division next season, your post is a strange one.

[Mikey]

Thought we had one.

By the way if we dont sign anyone then we will be in the 1st Division next season, your post is a strange one.

We do. Everyone knows Scott Lindsay has the final say on who we sign.

[RIP]

We do. Everyone knows Scott Lindsay has the final say on who we sign.

That's the opposite of what we were told at the Forum. This is how I interpreted Fife's words.

Management have no strategy for building the squad, nor do they have a long-term philosophy or aim (apart from the jaded "top end of the league"). No building blocks, no pieces of the jigsaw - no box.

They rely 100% on the direction set by this years's temp. The new manager has complete control. If they want to sign a whole new team, that's fine, SL's job is to go get the players. And when that manager is replaced, the new guy get's the same support, even if that means ditching all the previous guy's signings.

What is the impact of this constant squad churn?

Slipping further down the league each season
Squad is constantly in upheaval and rebuild
Chopping and changing the playing style
Players don't know which positions to play in
Tactics different with each manager
Players insecure and demotivated
Supporters don't see anything Hibs style in the team

As another poster succinctly put it - Quantity over Quality!!

All because club management have absolutely no clue how to run the football side of the club, To hand it over 'carte blanche' to this year's temp manager is absolute madness. Meanwhile, some supporters, like the lemmings we are, shout long and loud

"More Signings!! More Signings!!"

There, in a nutshell, you have the problem that will see us relegated below our rivals who have settled, fit, motivated and well-coached teams.

[nortonhibby]

That's the opposite of what we were told at the Forum. This is how I interpreted Fife's words.

Management have no strategy for building the squad, nor do they have a long-term philosophy or aim (apart from the jaded "top end of the league"). No building blocks, no pieces of the jigsaw - no box.

They rely 100% on the direction set by this years's temp. The new manager has complete control. If they want to sign a whole new team, that's fine, SL's job is to go get the players. And when that manager is replaced, the new guy get's the same support, even if that means ditching all the previous guy's signings.

What is the impact of this constant squad churn?
Slipping further down the league each season
Squad is constantly in upheaval and rebuild
Chopping and changing the playing style
Players don't know which positions to play in
Tactics different with each manager
Players insecure and demotivated
Supporters don't see anything Hibs style in the team

As another poster succinctly put it - Quantity over Quality!!

All because club management have absolutely no clue how to run the football side of the club, To hand it over 'carte blanche' to this year's temp manager is absolute madness. Meanwhile, some supporters, like the lemmings we are, shout long and loud

"More Signings!! More Signings!!"

There, in a nutshell, you have the problem that will see us relegated below our rivals who have settled, fit, motivated, well-coached teams.

Eh what.:flag:

[greenlex]

That's the opposite of what we were told at the Forum. This is how I interpreted Fife's words.

Management have no strategy for building the squad, nor do they have a long-term philosophy or aim (apart from the jaded "top end of the league"). No building blocks, no pieces of the jigsaw - no box.

They rely 100% on the direction set by this years's temp. The new manager has complete control. If they want to sign a whole new team, that's fine, SL's job is to go get the players. And when that manager is replaced, the new guy get's the same support, even if that means ditching all the previous guy's signings.

What is the impact of this constant squad churn?
Slipping further down the league each season
Squad is constantly in upheaval and rebuild
Chopping and changing the playing style
Players don't know which positions to play in
Tactics different with each manager
Players insecure and demotivated
Supporters don't see anything Hibs style in the team

As another poster succinctly put it - Quantity over Quality!!

All because club management have absolutely no clue how to run the football side of the club, To hand it over 'carte blanche' to this year's temp manager is absolute madness. Meanwhile, some supporters, like the lemmings we are, shout long and loud

"More Signings!! More Signings!!"

There, in a nutshell, you have the problem that will see us relegated below our rivals who have settled, fit, motivated, well-coached teams.

It's immaterial who builds the squad. It has to be built and added to when players move on for whatever reason. It makes no difference who oversees it. Manager or DOF. It would obviously need to be a football man. If he is successful in the role he would move on and the new incumbent would do it his way with his players.
When the board appoint a manager they know the ethos of the club. This ethos would be what is ultimately being striven for. A DOF in the role you suggest just puts in another layer. Instead of a designated DOF we would be far better following a succession planning role for the post of manager. Liverpool were the team to beat in the 70s using this model. They didn't have a DOF.

[J-C]

The only players available will be the ones other teams want to dump

it will unsettle a squad that badly needs a settled formation

They are unlikely to arrive fit and we don't need more unfit players

Save the money for better coaches, particularly fitness, diet and tactics. Split the squad into small groups and focus on developing character and discipline.

And if Fenlon can't improve these deficiencies he shouldn't be left unsupported to keep us in the spl. Bring in a dof

So you don't want 4-5 new faces champing at the bit looking to get regular 1st team football, god forbid that ever happems.:confused:

[J-C]

That's the opposite of what we were told at the Forum. This is how I interpreted Fife's words.

Management have no strategy for building the squad, nor do they have a long-term philosophy or aim (apart from the jaded "top end of the league"). No building blocks, no pieces of the jigsaw - no box.

They rely 100% on the direction set by this years's temp. The new manager has complete control. If they want to sign a whole new team, that's fine, SL's job is to go get the players. And when that manager is replaced, the new guy get's the same support, even if that means ditching all the previous guy's signings.

What is the impact of this constant squad churn?
Slipping further down the league each season
Squad is constantly in upheaval and rebuild
Chopping and changing the playing style
Players don't know which positions to play in
Tactics different with each manager
Players insecure and demotivated
Supporters don't see anything Hibs style in the team

As another poster succinctly put it - Quantity over Quality!!

All because club management have absolutely no clue how to run the football side of the club, To hand it over 'carte blanche' to this year's temp manager is absolute madness. Meanwhile, some supporters, like the lemmings we are, shout long and loud

"More Decent Signings!! More Decent Signings!!"

There, in a nutshell, you have the problem that will see us relegated below our rivals who have settled, fit, motivated, well-coached teams.

There fixed that for you.

[AlbertK86]

I reckon we will stay up with this squad. I know what the OP is meaning. I would rather we got 10th or 11th and then signed good players in the summer, rather than sign poorer players in January when we are not exactly going to improve by miles and get better than 6th or 7th.

Like we did this summer !

[frazeHFC]

Like we did this summer !

The players we signed in the summer were still better than the players we signed in January imo, mainly due to Osbourne.

[AlbertK86]

The players we signed in the summer were still better than the players we signed in January imo, mainly due to Osbourne.

Granted re ozzy but Sodje and Palsson went a long way to keeping us up

[RIP]

So you don't want 4-5 new faces champing at the bit looking to get regular 1st team football, god forbid that ever happems.:confused:

One or two only supplemented by one or two of our youngsters.

Welsh, Smith, Crawford, Stanton

[Iain G]

Hey G how are ya :-)

Cqn we make that Brian Welsh, Gordon Smith, Stevie Crawford and Pat Stanton please :-)

[Septimus]

Surely by now the incumbent football management team have in mind players and positions in which they would be deployed in the team. The last thing we need is a blunderbuss effect of rushing out and buying half a dozen players because their names will look good on a team sheet. A slow building of the team is required now and a patient support who will be satisfied merely to avoid relegation this year.

One class player now would be a godsend and would probably steady the ship. We have had enough of scraping the barrel after everyone else has had their pick. We are after all, Hibernian FC.

Please, whatever you do Fenlon, do not sign another has been who has allowed his fitness to slip while waiting for another payday. We need someone who will hit the ground running.

[BT58]

Im led to believe that BB was totally shocked at the ****** we have @ ER
now PF has saw that same ******,,he may bring in more from Eire,,
bring in at least 3,,,even loanees would shurley help us
Bt

[Nailrod]

It's immaterial who builds the squad. It has to be built and added to when players move on for whatever reason. It makes no difference who oversees it. Manager or DOF. It would obviously need to be a football man. If he is successful in the role he would move on and the new incumbent would do it his way with his players.
When the board appoint a manager they know the ethos of the club. This ethos would be what is ultimately being striven for. A DOF in the role you suggest just puts in another layer. Instead of a designated DOF we would be far better following a succession planning role for the post of manager. Liverpool were the team to beat in the 70s using this model. They didn't have a DOF.

It makes a massive difference who oversees the squad.

Currently, an SPL manager's coat - particularly at Hibs - is on a shoogly peg from day 1. An SPL manager's life expectancy isn't even 2 years. There are exactly 2 current SPL managers who have been in their posts longer than that. The average length of term of all the serving SPL managers is less than 18 months.

How do you expect a man whose P45 is hanging over him next week to be looking forward 3 or 4 years, and working out how he's going to be shaping the squad over that period?

What's he actually going to do in terms of his squad?

He's going to look as far as next week, and ask himself how he can best try to avoid getting beat too often, and avoid getting the sack too soon.

And what's the best way to do that? Beefy journeymen pros who will "do a job". Lots of them. So if one gets injured there's another one to take his place. That's one of the reasons why Scottish football at club level and (actual) Scottish footballers at international level are utter rubbish - the worst in history.

You can take that approach, and sometimes you'll be lucky, and you'll be in the top 6, and sometimes you won't and you'll be in the bottom six. Or relegated. We haven't had much luck recently. We've got worse and worse and worse.

It matters a great deal who shapes the squad.

(And your "Liverpool of the 70s" example is ridiculous. Of course they didn't need a DOF. Between 1959 and 1983 they went through exactly two managers.)

[Andy74]

I think what is being missed by the op in the current strategy is that managers are not being recruited intentionally to be short term options.

They are being brought in to be here for a number of years and develop the squad and the style as they see fit.

That's why the rest of his comments don't really make much sense currently.

We are where we are and we need better players.

[RIP]

I think what is being missed by the op in the current strategy is that managers are not being recruited intentionally to be short term options.

They are being brought in to be here for a number of years and develop the squad and the style as they see fit.

That's why the rest of his comments don't really make much sense currently.

We are where we are and we need better players.

Good post. Like you I prefer long term appointments. For that to happen though we need a board and supporters with patience and vision. We have neither.

Every season we keep repeating the same worn out song "New manager please. New players please."

That's not been the solution.

That's been the problem.

[J-C]

Good post. Like you I prefer long term appointments. For that to happen though we need a board and supporters with patience and vision. We have neither.

New manager please. New players please.

That's not been the solution.

That's been the problem.


Unfortunately with the dross at ER we need players to get us out of this mire.

[cad]

Personally I think the patience and vision shown by our supporters over the last 20 years has been exemplary ,the last 2 / 3 years has been just a tad to much for some ,seen it all before heard it all before you could say .

[cad]

I agree with a fare bit that Nailrod put up about the time issues managers have but its the nature of the SPL

[RIP]

Levein at United was an example promoted by some. We did a good job rebuilding the stadium and an utterly pathetic job at rebuilding the squad.

We aren't learning any lessons though. It's perfectly feasible to develop a strategy whilst adopting short-term tactics. We need a board or board member who are working on the former while supporting the manager on the latter.

[Cropley10]

Good post. Like you I prefer long term appointments. For that to happen though we need a board and supporters with patience and vision. We have neither.

New manager please. New players please.

That's not been the solution.

That's been the problem.

Had we acquired better quality players in Collins era and even Mixus then we might not been in this mess. Your point of view is based on hindsight, 20:20 vision. We've got new managers in because the players we'd got and brought in hadn't performed.

Are you suggesting that the Club prefers to be in constant upheaval and change? We are reaping what we sowed back in 2007.

[Andy74]

Had we acquired better quality players in Collins era and even Mixus then we might not been in this mess. Your point of view is based on hindsight, 20:20 vision. We've got new managers in because the players we'd got and brought in hadn't performed.

Are you suggesting that the Club prefers to be in constant upheaval and change? We are reaping what we sowed back in 2007.

Although that was also bad judgement from the manager and not a board issue.

[Kaiser1962]

I think what is being missed by the op in the current strategy is that managers are not being recruited intentionally to be short term options.

They are being brought in to be here for a number of years and develop the squad and the style as they see fit.

That's why the rest of his comments don't really make much sense currently.

We are where we are and we need better players.

Absolutely right Andy.

But the reality is that if a manager, like a player, does well then other clubs will come calling. The wages and budgets on offer elsewhere would tempt anyone and all managers know they are a bad run away from the sack.

If Fenlon does well he will be offered a bigger, better gig before the end of next season. If he does not address the situation he will be gone before that time. Yogi's stock was reasonably high when he came to Hibs (I think he was linked with a couple of English SPL posts) and now he pimps himself on the radio pretending he knows important stuff but, cough, cant say.

Only McIntyre (2008) Houston (Xmas 2009) and Terry Butcher (2009) have been in post more than two years. Would you bet against any of them getting the sack before the seasons out?

Tragic and disappointing to Hibs supporters this may be but it is the reality of the times we live.

[RIP]

Had we acquired better quality players in Collins era and even Mixus then we might not been in this mess. Your point of view is based on hindsight, 20:20 vision. We've got new managers in because the players we'd got and brought in hadn't performed.

Are you suggesting that the Club prefers to be in constant upheaval and change? We are reaping what we sowed back in 2007.

agree with you 100% on the Collins debacle. He had a vision. They didn't.

They have been a shambles since, learning nothing from hindsight. They run the club not just the ledgers. We have nobody at board level who knows how to run a football club. If the last four years has proven anything, its that we need a Hibs led football strategy that can take our club forwards.

For a non-football board to blindly hand our future over to some passing manager is unacceptable imo. Our club needs strong and effective leadership to build long term stability. These changes need to start at the top.

[Kaiser1962]

Good post. Like you I prefer long term appointments. For that to happen though we need a board and supporters with patience and vision. We have neither.

To further add to my previous post about how difficult long term appointments are to achieve these days in England only three managers have been in post over 10 years, and two of those are Ferguson and Wenger.

47 managers have been in post less than one year and a further 16 managers between 1-2 years. 12 have been 2-3 which means that over 80% of English managers have been in post less than three years.

[Andy74]

agree with you 100% on the Collins debacle. He had a vision. They didn't.

They have been a shambles since, learning nothing from hindsight. They run the club not just the ledgers. We have nobody at board level who knows how to run a football club. If the last four years has proven anything, its that we need a Hibs led football strategy that can take our club forwards.

For a non-football board to blindly hand our future over to some passing manager is unacceptable imo. Our club needs strong and effective leadership to build long term stability. These changes need to start at the top.

We have Rod Petrie one of the most experienced and respected administrators in UK football and the guy Langham who was Chief Exec at Aston Villa wasn't he?

We have people who know how to run a football club.

We just haven't had succesful managers to implement the football strategy.

Again you talk about passing managers as if this is deliberate. Do you think handing that on instead to a Director of Football would make any difference? Why would they be succesful? Why would they stay if they were?

If Collins had a vision that included more of the type of players he sgned then I'm glad we didn't share it. And don't give me the list of fantasy names that he had.

[greenlex]

We have Rod Petrie one of the most experienced and respected administrators in UK football and the guy Langham who was Chief Exec at Aston Villa wasn't he?

We have people who know how to run a football club.

We just haven't had succesful managers to implement the football strategy.

Again you talk about passing managers as if this is deliberate. Do you think handing that on instead to a Director of Football would make any difference? Why would they be succesful? Why would they stay if they were?

If Collins had a vision that included more of the type of players he sgned then I'm glad we didn't share it. And don't give me the list of fantasy names that he had.
Hes not listening.

[Franck is God]

I wouldn't go as far as to say not to sign anyone, we know for example that Thornhill & Agogo are away and potentially Leigh Griffiths too unless his loan deal is extended or signing made permanent.

From what Fenlon has been reported to have said I can't see too many pemanent signings arriving in January and mainly loan players with some experience that can make an immediate impact.

It does seem that long term he sees the young players at the club and out on loan playing a major role going forward which is good as I think there's plenty talent to work with but it's unfair to expect and rely on them to get us out of our current situation which is why loan signings might be the best option.

[jacomo]

We have Rod Petrie one of the most experienced and respected administrators in UK football and the guy Langham who was Chief Exec at Aston Villa wasn't he?

We have people who know how to run a football club.

We just haven't had succesful managers to implement the football strategy.

Again you talk about passing managers as if this is deliberate. Do you think handing that on instead to a Director of Football would make any difference? Why would they be succesful? Why would they stay if they were?

If Collins had a vision that included more of the type of players he sgned then I'm glad we didn't share it. And don't give me the list of fantasy names that he had.

Hibs have deep-seated problems. I'm not laying these at Petrie's door but something is badly, badly wrong.

Either we keep on appointing the wrong manager or the Hibs job is an impossible one.

Since the training centre has opened, the standard of play has deteriorated.

We keep failing to get the best out of players - and make weights like Van Zanten and Rankin leave to play for teams who are currently doing better than us.

Do you really think there's no need to look at how we are run? Oh, and of course attendances are falling and the club is losing money.

[Cropley10]

agree with you 100% on the Collins debacle. He had a vision. They didn't.

They have been a shambles since, learning nothing from hindsight. They run the club not just the ledgers. We have nobody at board level who knows how to run a football club. If the last four years has proven anything, its that we need a Hibs led football strategy that can take our club forwards.

For a non-football board to blindly hand our future over to some passing manager is unacceptable imo. Our club needs strong and effective leadership to build long term stability. These changes need to start at the top.

Please can you give me an example of another team who is operating with a DoF (who appears to have a permanent position) and a manager on a Contract?

I don't understand what a non-Football Board is? Is Steven Thompson's Board at United a Football Board? Is Geoff Brown's Board at the Saints a Football Board?

[RIP]

We have Rod Petrie one of the most experienced and respected administrators in UK football and the guy Langham who was Chief Exec at Aston Villa wasn't he? We have people who know how to run a football club.

Either this highly qualified board are

Poor at picking managers or
Too hasty at sacking managers or
Haven't create the right club strategy and culture.
Don't support the manager in terms of contracts or quality of signings.
Don't instill enough discipline in their staff
Are too remote
Interfere too much


The reasons for their failure are irrelevant. The fact is these incumbents are failing our club with their poor management. We don't need half a dozen administrators. We need one. Plus a marketing person and an accountant.

They need one more at board level - a colleague who loves the club and has the requisite experience to deliver a quality football operation :- diet, discpline, fitness, coaching, youth development, squad building, recruitment and managerial support. Someone who can get the best out of East Mains and instill a winning mentality and athletic culture.

[Cropley10]

Either this highly qualified board are
Poor at picking managers - with hindsight, yes...
Too hasty at sacking managers - Caldo sacked, Hughes was sacked, Mixu given the chance to walk at the end of the season, JC, walked off - so that's only two sackings...
Haven't created the right club strategy and culture - again with hindsight they maybe haven't, but who was saying this at the time?
Don't support the manager in terms of contracts or quality of signings - apparently they've been well backed, backed to pick duds but backed nonetheless? Our player turnover is on a par with many other similar clubs.
Don't instill enough discipline in their staff - who knows, have they, haven't they? Are Hearts players better disciplined?
Are too remote - well it's one or the other, but you can't have both
Interfere too much - see above


I think you're trying to make a good point but can you just use hindsight and opinion to say what you think is wrong?

Most folk (certainly on here) said that finishing ER and building EM were the 'right' things to do at the time and for the long-term future of the Club. Now it's hard to see what either have really achieved, but in time, that will change. Some people also said that it was wrong, that there's no point without a decent team on the park. Well, we can't spend the same pound twice, so we spent it on bricks and mortar (which is very easy) rather than spending it on players, which by contrast is very hard.

Now we're again in a position where we look very weak, but you might argue that all the ingredients are there for us to succeed. What set us back really and with perfect hindsight, was appointing, then hanging on to, Caldo; the man achieved ZERO in his time here; football to make your eyes bleed and a troop of journeyman duds that you're so against (and so am I) coming and in some cases going.

Personally I've always struggled with the way we did our transfer business. Murphy was always going to be sold, but we've not had a left back since. At no point did someone say, well if Murph's away we can't just keep our fingers crossed that we'll 'make do' with some LB. We ended up trying Zarabi at LB after Murph went, which was obviously a case of hunting in the dark for someone to play that position. Which I would fully agree is not representative of any 'football strategy'.

[RIP]

Please can you give me an example of another team who is operating with a DoF (who appears to have a permanent position) and a manager on a Contract?


Celtic - John Park is Director of Football Development
Rangers - Gordon Smith
Aberdeen - Willie Miller
Hearts - John Murray
ICT - Graeme Bennett
Dunfermline - Jim Leishman


Hearts were after Jim Jefferies. Dundee United are still after Levein and hope he will return to the DOF role after his Scotland stint. The Brown (St Johnstone) and Thomson (Dundee United) families have been with their clubs for decades and as passionate fans have a strong track record for being close to the workings of the football operation. They both have a reputation for appointing good managers and supporting them with good signings and man management.

[BEEJ]

Personally I've always struggled with the way we did our transfer business. Murphy was always going to be sold, but we've not had a left back since. At no point did someone say, well if Murph's away we can't just keep our fingers crossed that we'll 'make do' with some LB. We ended up trying Zarabi at LB after Murph went, which was obviously a case of hunting in the dark for someone to play that position. Which I would fully agree is not representative of any 'football strategy'.
:agree:

An episode that was truly a blunder and revealed a failure (somewhere) to understand how difficult it would be to replace a player of Murphy's calibre.

[Cropley10]

:agree:

An episode that was truly a blunder and revealed a failure (somewhere) to understand how difficult it would be to replace a player of Murphy's calibre.

BEEJ, I used Zarabi as an example - replacing someone of Murph's calibre was always going to be very difficult. BUT it's less about his calibre IMO and more about the fact that we had ZERO succession plan; no understudy from the U19's, no interim or stop-gap, no target. Doesn't matter what level of football you play at you cannot lose a good player and just 'hope' to get by - which is what we (often) seem to do (eg Jones and Bamba - replaced with Stephens and er and er..O'Hanlon.)

[Cropley10]

Celtic - John Park is Director of Football Development
Rangers - Gordon Smith
Aberdeen - Willie Miller
Hearts - John Murray
ICT - Graeme Bennett
Dunfermline - Jim Leishman

Hearts were after Jim Jefferies. Dundee United are still after Levein and hope he will return to the DOF role after his Scotland stint. The Brown (St Johnstone) and Thomson (Dundee United) families have been with their clubs for decades and as passionate fans have a strong track record for being close to the workings of the football operation. They both have a reputation for appointing good managers and supporting them with good signings and man management.

Thanks - John Murray's a belter :greengrin - the rest are bona fide...

[Billy Whizz]

Celtic - John Park is Director of Football Development
Rangers - Gordon Smith
Aberdeen - Willie Miller
Hearts - John Murray
ICT - Graeme Bennett
Dunfermline - Jim Leishman


Hearts were after Jim Jefferies. Dundee United are still after Levein and hope he will return to the DOF role after his Scotland stint. The Brown (St Johnstone) and Thomson (Dundee United) families have been with their clubs for decades and as passionate fans have a strong track record for being close to the workings of the football operation. They both have a reputation for appointing good managers and supporting them with good signings and man management.

Is Vlad not the DOF at Tynie?

[Kaiser1962]

Celtic - John Park is Director of Football Development
Rangers - Gordon Smith
Aberdeen - Willie Miller
Hearts - John Murray
ICT - Graeme Bennett
Dunfermline - Jim Leishman
Hearts were after Jim Jefferies. Dundee United are still after Levein and hope he will return to the DOF role after his Scotland stint. The Brown (St Johnstone) and Thomson (Dundee United) families have been with their clubs for decades and as passionate fans have a strong track record for being close to the workings of the football operation. They both have a reputation for appointing good managers and supporting them with good signings and man management.

Dundee United have had 5 top six finishes in the thirteen seasons in the SPL which is bolstered by 4 in the last 4 and their fortunes changed with the appointment of Levein and being subsidised heavily during that time by Eddie Thomson. However Eddie's boy doesn't look like he is as willing (or unable) to finance this anymore and they are slipping back to their pre-Levein days.

St.J finished in the top six the first two seasons of the SPL but have since spent seven seasons in the First. Their four other season's in the SPL they have garnered two eighth place finishes, a tenth and a twelfth.

From your list of six no. 1 is fine, a good man and a good example. No.2's survival is hanging by a thread. No.3 spend more than us and are, arguably in a worse position than us. No.4 are a total train wreck but, because their football team does better than our's (for now) there appear to be those that cast envious glances in their direction. Murray has been in the job a month now lets see how he handles the coming months. 5+6 are decent clubs but are they doing any better? Is that what you aspire to?

[RIP]

Dundee United have had 5 top six finishes in the thirteen seasons in the SPL which is bolstered by 4 in the last 4 and their fortunes changed with the appointment of Levein and being subsidised heavily during that time by Eddie Thomson. However Eddie's boy doesn't look like he is as willing (or unable) to finance this anymore and they are slipping back to their pre-Levein days.

St.J finished in the top six the first two seasons of the SPL but have since spent seven seasons in the First. Their four other season's in the SPL they have garnered two eighth place finishes, a tenth and a twelfth.

From your list of six no. 1 is fine, a good man and a good example. No.2's survival is hanging by a thread. No.3 spend more than us and are, arguably in a worse position than us. No.4 are a total train wreck but, because their football team does better than our's (for now) there appear to be those that cast envious glances in their direction. Murray has been in the job a month now lets see how he handles the coming months. 5+6 are decent clubs but are they doing any better? Is that what you aspire to?

The majority of clubs = in the EPL, Europe and SPL have a Football Director. I'm not saying they are a pre-requisite for success.

However with our club having no football expertise on our large, well-paid board, why should we not consider replacing the wage of one director with someone who can bring football management experience. With a turnover of six managers, ten coaches, a hundred players and a team and club in freefall - surely it's time to consider a bit of turnover in the boardroom?

[nortonhibby]

The majority of clubs = in the EPL, Europe and SPL have a Football Director. I'm not saying they are a pre-requisite for success.

However with our club having no football expertise on our large, well-paid board, why should we not consider replacing the wage of one director with someone who can bring football management experience. With a turnover of six managers, ten coaches, a hundred players and a team and club in freefall - surely it's time to consider a bit of turnover in the boardroom?

RP is not well paid he works for free.

[Kaiser1962]

The majority of clubs = in the EPL, Europe and SPL have a Football Director. I'm not saying they are a pre-requisite for success.

However with our club having no football expertise on our large, well-paid board, why should we not consider replacing the wage of one director with someone who can bring football management experience. With a turnover of six managers, ten coaches, a hundred players and a team and club in freefall - surely it's time to consider a bit of turnover in the boardroom?

Yet Aberdeen do have football expertise on their board, have a larger budget than us and a former Scotland manager in charge. Recipe for success?

Last DoF we had was Billy "Cesaer" McNeil. European Cup winner and Scotland nternational. Former manager of Aberdeen,Celtic, Man City and Villa.

We got relegated.

[nortonhibby]

Yet Aberdeen do have football expertise on their board, have a larger budget than us and a former Scotland manager in charge. Recipe for success?

Last DoF we had was Billy "Cesaer" McNeil. European Cup winner and Scotland nternational. Former manager of Aberdeen,Celtic, Man City and Villa.

We got relegated.

he gave up after 2 games or was it one Duffy did it.

[AlbertK86]

RP is not well paid he works for free.

Now... But has had millions out the club over the years

[RickyS]

he gave up after 2 games or was it one Duffy did it.

When the pressure started to get to Duff, he brought McNeill in to help. Duff was duly sacked
then McNeill was in charge of the next game against the sheep but made it clear he had no interest in the job full time.
GJP got the job and decided he didnae need/want him.

[Cropley10]

Now... But has had millions out the club over the years

How has RP managed to take 'millions' out of the Club?:confused:

[Kaiser1962]

he gave up after 2 games or was it one Duffy did it.

He was caretaker for one game when Duffy left. Was DoF before stepping in.