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Gala Foxes
28-12-2011, 11:46 PM
Nothing to add

The attendance tonight tells its own story

Baldy Foghorn
28-12-2011, 11:51 PM
Nothing to add

The attendance tonight tells its own story

Season ticket holders not going....We can't even give tickets away at the moment

glenn6270
28-12-2011, 11:55 PM
the board of Hibernian fc need a wake up call
and if the attendance tonight is not that
then we are goosed .

get your cash out and back the manager in jan

TheEastTerrace
28-12-2011, 11:55 PM
Hibs will be back to pulling crowds like this on a regular basis sadly. And if RP and the board think they'd get the same crowds as last time we went down then they are in cuckoo land.

Sergeant Hibs
28-12-2011, 11:58 PM
Jeez didnt think it was that bad new faces are a MUST

LancashireHibby
28-12-2011, 11:59 PM
I thought it looked worse than that if I'm being honest.

ballengeich
28-12-2011, 11:59 PM
It mainly says that midweek evening games shouldn't be in December.

lucky
28-12-2011, 11:59 PM
13000 empty seats. We really are in a bad way. No fans, **** team, losing money. The board have a big decision invest in the team or gamble that the team will survive and fans will return.

Beefster
29-12-2011, 12:00 AM
Season ticket holders not going....We can't even give tickets away at the moment

Understandable too. It's ****ing woeful. Fenlon may keep us up but, without major changes at the club, ST renewals will plummet.

nortonhibby
29-12-2011, 12:01 AM
Nothing to add

The attendance tonight tells its own story
one man to blame Don Deflon.:flag:

Sir David Gray
29-12-2011, 12:03 AM
Is anyone really surprised?

The only reason I was there tonight was because of my season ticket and even then I swithered about it.

Gala Foxes
29-12-2011, 12:05 AM
I remember being at Easter Road at the end of the 79/80 relegation season, about 1,000 of us at the last home game versus Partick Thistle (we lost 1 nil)

6,923 (when loads of Hi-bees are home for Xmas holidays) is heading that way

Steve-O
29-12-2011, 12:06 AM
First game I have seen in a year and we are even worse than back then. I can understand why people don't want to go and watch that dross every week. I am honestly pleased I will be back to watching the A-League in 10 days time because the entertainment levels are miles better than that pish I saw tonight.

The Voice Of Reason
29-12-2011, 12:09 AM
It mainly says that midweek evening games shouldn't be in December.

If that's what you honestly think then fine ! :aok:

I think it is because we are really pash and as a result the fans are as apathetic as I can ever remember them !

I was there tonight and paid £22 to watch the likes of Wotherspoon, Towell, Griffiths, Stephens etc. These guys ar rank. In fact the majority of our team would struggle to get a game for any other SPL Team - we are dreadfully poor. :fuming:

AlbertK86
29-12-2011, 12:09 AM
Eff the board..... They have brought it upon themselves. Dismantled us since we won the cup - only at Hibs...... Anywhere else they try to build on success

The Voice Of Reason
29-12-2011, 12:10 AM
First game I have seen in a year and we are even worse than back then. I can understand why people don't want to go and watch that dross every week. I am honestly pleased I will be back to watching the A-League in 10 days time because the entertainment levels are miles better than that pish I saw tonight.

Sadly, this post says it all. :agree:

Pete
29-12-2011, 12:10 AM
I think the weather might have been a factor as well.

stanton10
29-12-2011, 12:14 AM
if that's what you honestly think then fine ! :aok:

I think it is because we are really pash and as a result the fans are as apathetic as i can ever remember them !

I was there tonight and paid £22 to watch the likes of wotherspoon, towell, griffiths, stephens etc. These guys ar rank. In fact the majority of our team would struggle to get a game for any other spl team - we are dreadfully poor. :fuming:

i think you are bang on good thread.

Gala Foxes
29-12-2011, 12:15 AM
blame it on midweek

blame it on the weather

blame it on the credit crunch and no money

blame it on the SPL

personally - I'd blame it on Petrie & the sub standard half hearted players

I remember 20k at Easter Rd at home vs Ayr in 98/99

Holmesdale Hibs
29-12-2011, 12:16 AM
That was my first game this year but that's because don't live in Edinburgh and am only back for Xmas.

I can totally understand why people have stopped going. We had one shot on target tonight and that was from a set piece. The only other attempt I can remember was Griffiths punting the ball over the bar from long range. We have no creativity whatsoever and only looked like scoring from Inverness mistakes.

If this the standard of what's on offer then I can see why people aren't paying over-inflated prices to freeze their arse of.

There were a few other factors tonight a) the late kick-off (its a holiday, why not kick-off at 3?) b) the old firm game on telly (should not have been on at the same time) c) **** weather d) long way for away supporters to travel

but the real reason is that this is the least exciting Hibs team I can remember. I'd even go so far to say that its worse than what we had under Blobby.

Steve-O
29-12-2011, 12:17 AM
blame it on midweek

blame it on the weather

blame it on the credit crunch and no money

blame it on the SPL

personally - I'd blame it on Petrie & the sub standard half hearted players

I remember 20k at Easter Rd at home vs Ayr in 98/99

The capacity was only 17k so must've been a few snuck in that day! :greengrin

Postman
29-12-2011, 12:18 AM
Nothing to add

The attendance tonight tells its own story
I don't even want to think about what figures we could be talking about this time next year if we carry on the way we are going just now!

Beefster
29-12-2011, 12:19 AM
blame it on midweek

blame it on the weather

blame it on the credit crunch and no money

blame it on the SPL

personally - I'd blame it on Petrie & the sub standard half hearted players

I remember 20k at Easter Rd at home vs Ayr in 98/99

Your memory is playing tricks on you.

Gala Foxes
29-12-2011, 12:19 AM
The capacity was only 17k so must've been a few snuck in that day! :greengrin

ok - 17k versus Ayr Utd at home on Boxing Day 1998 - not a patch on less than 7k tonight

Steve-O
29-12-2011, 12:22 AM
ok - 17k versus Ayr Utd at home on Boxing Day 1998 - not a patch on less than 7k tonight

Pretty sure it was more like 15k v Raith but I take your point. We won 5-1 that day too, do you reckon this current bunch of losers can even muster 5 shots on goal in a game???? :confused:

Gala Foxes
29-12-2011, 12:26 AM
Pretty sure it was more like 15k v Raith but I take your point. We won 5-1 that day too, do you reckon this current bunch of losers can even muster 5 shots on goal in a game???? :confused:

okay I am getting old, my memories of 1st Division "glory days" are hazy

bit I know there were at least 10.923 of us Vs both Raith & Ayr at Xmas 1998

anyway we dress it up Div 1 in 1998 was better than the piss poor SPL turnout tonight

Steve-O
29-12-2011, 12:29 AM
okay I am getting old, my memories of 1st Division "glory days" are hazy

bit I know there were at least 10.923 of us Vs both Raith & Ayr at Xmas 1998

anyway we dress it up Div 1 in 1998 was better than the piss poor SPL turnout tonight

There was a well attended Ayr game too, yes. We were getting some decent attacking football back then and it was decent to watch, albeit in first division. This current garbage would not look out of place in a pub league, its just a little bit quicker!

oldbutdim
29-12-2011, 12:30 AM
blame it on midweek

blame it on the weather

blame it on the credit crunch and no money

blame it on the SPL

personally - I'd blame it on Petrie & the sub standard half hearted players

I remember 20k at Easter Rd at home vs Ayr in 98/99

I blame it on the boogie.
:agree:

Gala Foxes
29-12-2011, 12:31 AM
I blame it on the boogie.
:agree:

not the sunshine or the good times?

AFKA5814_Hibs
29-12-2011, 12:39 AM
Hibs are crap and that is the reason why crowds are so poor. **** the weather or midweek games in December, those are not relevant reasons for dwindling attendances and people who miss a game cause it's a wee bit windy are not worth worrying about.

If we were winning and playing well there would have been much more at the game and the breezy weather wouldn't even have been noticed. :agree:

Gala Foxes
29-12-2011, 12:39 AM
6,923 tonight, 6 years ago under Mowbray we took 5k Hi-bees to Tannadice on Boxing Day for for Allen Orman day & a 4-1 away win

ronaldo7
29-12-2011, 12:41 AM
First game I have seen in a year and we are even worse than back then. I can understand why people don't want to go and watch that dross every week. I am honestly pleased I will be back to watching the A-League in 10 days time because the entertainment levels are miles better than that pish I saw tonight.

Cheerio, enjoy yer time in wellers:na na:

See ye when we're better:greengrin

Steve-O
29-12-2011, 12:52 AM
Cheerio, enjoy yer time in wellers:na na:

See ye when we're better:greengrin

See me when we are better? I'll be back again before 2025 I would have thought!

Hibbyradge
29-12-2011, 12:56 AM
personally - I'd blame it on Petrie



That's a novel idea.

Petrie was there when we had our biggest crowds for years.

Did you blame him then?




I remember 20k at Easter Rd at home vs Ayr in 98/99

I don't remember any crowds like that against Ayr.

Hibbyradge
29-12-2011, 12:57 AM
6,923 tonight, 6 years ago under Mowbray we took 5k Hi-bees to Tannadice on Boxing Day for for Allen Orman day & a 4-1 away win

Where was Petrie that day?

ronaldo7
29-12-2011, 01:01 AM
See me when we are better? I'll be back again before 2025 I would have thought!

I would have thought you were wanting first dibs on cup final tickets seeing as yer faimlie is desertin:greengrin

magpie1892
29-12-2011, 01:03 AM
3,833 v. St Johnstone midweek in the early 90s.

We had a not bad side then as well...

Gala Foxes
29-12-2011, 01:43 AM
That's a novel idea.

Petrie was there when we had our biggest crowds for years.

Did you blame him then?



I don't remember any crowds like that against Ayr.

if you are going to use the quote use the whole quote - what I said that you edited was - I'd blame it on Petrie & the sub standard half hearted players

as regards the crowd versus Ayr, okay it was 16k not 20k

Still 10k more than tonight

Albion Hibs
29-12-2011, 02:00 AM
Fact of the matter is our fan base is as fickle as they come. Point all you like at Famer and Petrie, penty of our "fans" need to have a good look at themselves before they look in the direction of anyone else.

If we made it to a cup final 25-30k would come crawling out of the woodwork.

Hibercelona
29-12-2011, 02:21 AM
Fact of the matter is our fan base is as fickle as they come. Point all you like at Famer and Petrie, penty of our "fans" need to have a good look at themselves before they look in the direction of anyone else.

If we made it to a cup final 25-30k would come crawling out of the woodwork.

Quit talking utter mince.

Hibs have had one of the best damn supports out there.

For a club that achieves nowhere near what it should, people still continue to turn up and take more punishment.

For all the fans have given the club, when are the club going to give something back to the fans? No wonder the crowds are dying out.

Albion Hibs
29-12-2011, 02:35 AM
Quit talking utter mince.

Hibs have had one of the best damn supports out there.

For a club that achieves nowhere near what it should, people still continue to turn up and take more punishment.

For all the fans have given the club, when are the club going to give something back to the fans? No wonder the crowds are dying out.

"utter mince" behave yourself. Are you telling me if we got to a final we would not find 25-30k fans? it has happened before so I will be interested to hear your yes / no answer. So I ask you when the going is bad, where the """" are they?

To come out with the usual drivel that hibs should be grateful is nothing short of "utter mince". You are a supporter of the club or you are not. simple.

If you elect to stay home and dive into a dark room over the ELP or watching the game on the internet then as far as I am concerned you are not a fan, intersted follower, maybe. Supporter, no.

The easiest thing in the world is to come up with the pash excuse about needing something more, I was never raised to expect anything being a hibs fan, which makes getting anything a result. "if the club did this, or that...." bore bore bore. Half the folk that claim to be hibs fans would not go if we had a good team and the tickets were free....sad but true.

What exactly are our hidden "fans" wanting the club to give them?

monktonharp
29-12-2011, 02:44 AM
Nothing to add

The attendance tonight tells its own storynaw, I dont think it tells it's own story. The story really goes like this: HFC,(a fairly big fitba' club in Scottish terms)have underperformed for nigh on 45 years and continually scunnered their fan base over that period by not getting to semi-finals and finals of major competations which they Should have, and nay, looked like they were on the verge of , and yet continually not got to. However, that said fan base, for some unknown reason has stuck by the club that they obviously love and have an affinaty with, (and look as if they could die for at times) yet, those downtrodden fans still get up and stand , to fight another day. So,when one looks at attendances in modern day terms at the said club, one has to wonder at the obvious loyalty which is there for all (neutral obsevers)to see, and think...................why the hell did that amazing amount of Hibees manage to turn up in such numbers on such a dreich, wet, wind blown evening in the middle of the festive period,knowing that the latest ensemble of Hibernians, are lesser men than those that have graced the hallowed turf of the holy ground in years gone by? god only knows, but he surely will agree that our day will surely come.

Nailrod
29-12-2011, 03:17 AM
What exactly are our hidden "fans" wanting the club to give them?

I'm not sure that this is a serious question, but just in case, here's the answer:

More than one victory against SPL opposition at ER in ten months might have helped.

One single memorable performance at ER against opposition of any consequence in two and a half seasons of football might have helped.

Do you know when was the last time we beat either the OF or Hearts at ER, or gave one of the 'lesser' sides a good skelping? Would you like to hazard a guess?

Apart from one lonely 5-1 victory against bottom-of-the-league Hamilton (itself almost two years ago) the answer to my question is "Four managers ago". It scarcely seems believable, but that Hamilton game aside, the last time we scored four against SPL opposition at ER was in season 2007-08.

And you blame the fans.

Nailrod
29-12-2011, 03:41 AM
Here's an interesting one for you Albion.

My bro has been a walk-up supporter for almost fifty years. This year, for the first time ever, he bought a season ticket. It was a big outlay for him, all the more so because he works back shifts, so he can't go to midweek games.

So far, with the half-way point in the season come and gone, in exchange for his outlay of several hundred pounds he's seen Hibs garner all of three points.

I doubt if he'll be renewing. Another 'fairweather fan'.

Lucius Apuleius
29-12-2011, 08:43 AM
Many moons ago when games were played on Boxing Day etc I am pretty sure they were played during the day. I did not go last night. Guess I am just a fair weather supporter too. It usually takes quite a lot for me to miss a game when I am home on leave. A combination of family, commitments, seasonal demands and probably the doom and gloom I read on here made me decide not to go and spend the time with family I see probably once a year. Many moons ago I would have gone regardless. Times change, attitudes change and priorities change. I sense a bit of abuse may follow this post as people take it the wrong way but the main reason I did not go was because I have been continually told how bad we are on here. Never had that benefit many moons ago. Having said that, conversely looking forward to Monday.

GGTTH.

Beefster
29-12-2011, 08:50 AM
Fact of the matter is our fan base is as fickle as they come. Point all you like at Famer and Petrie, penty of our "fans" need to have a good look at themselves before they look in the direction of anyone else.

If we made it to a cup final 25-30k would come crawling out of the woodwork.

Absolutely, if I didn't already have the ST, I'd be desperate to pay for an over-priced ticket, beer and food so that I could sit, freezing my arse off, bored out of my tits.

Having said that though, we keep hearing about how Hibs is a business so maybe it's right to expect the supporters to act like customers? Not many customers will keeping getting mugged with the same old toot, time after time.

Mikey
29-12-2011, 08:52 AM
when are the club going to give something back to the fans?

:rolleyes:

blackpoolhibs
29-12-2011, 08:53 AM
Absolutely, if I didn't already have the ST, I'd be desperate to pay for an over-priced ticket, beer and food so that I could sit, freezing my arse off, bored out of my tits.

Having said that though, we keep hearing about how Hibs is a business so maybe it's right to expect the supporters to act like customers? Not many customers will keeping getting mugged with the same old toot, time after time.

Yip, probably a much better reply than my last one word retort. :agree:

Bristolhibby
29-12-2011, 09:10 AM
Normally come up to Edinburgh for the Boxing Day game (home or away) after spending Christmas with the in-laws.

The EPL had the right idea, play the mid week game before Christmas, ditch the Christmas Eve games, then have a full card on boxing day.

That would have seen this Hibby come up for last nights game.

Still I am sure the guys who run the SPL know what they are doing.

Incidentally, I am flying up on Monday for the derby (dreading the game). Looking forward to catching up with the family though.

J

NORTHERNHIBBY
29-12-2011, 09:32 AM
Used to be that crowds dipping below ten thousand was enough to set the alarm bells going. I would shake everyone by the hand that turned up last night. In the second half particularly, we were outplayed by a team that could only dream about the crowds that we are having nightmares about.

LancashireHibby
29-12-2011, 09:32 AM
Normally come up to Edinburgh for the Boxing Day game (home or away) after spending Christmas with the in-laws.

The EPL had the right idea, play the mid week game before Christmas, ditch the Christmas Eve games, then have a full card on boxing day.

That would have seen this Hibby come up for last nights game.

Still I am sure the guys who run the SPL know what they are doing.

Incidentally, I am flying up on Monday for the derby (dreading the game). Looking forward to catching up with the family though.

J

On the flip side of that though, I went to the game last night but wouldn't be able to go to one on Boxing Day because the trains weren't running.

Andy74
29-12-2011, 09:57 AM
The story it tells is that Calderwood has ripped the heart out of this team and the club.

The board have provided a budget in excess of most of the teams above us and so the blame the board stuff is nonsense, other than they messed up when they appointed Calderwood.

What is disappointing is that the fans can't try and rally round the new guy now. No, it's not been good watching Hibs but that won't improve, and we can't get new players in unless we stick by them.

I do understand the reasons for staying away but with that you have to accept that its difficult to change the squad and staying away is not helping either the current players or in getting new ones.

The support away to Motherwell was great and I'm not sure why that seems to have vanished already. Sure, we have carried on losing (and now drawing) but that won't be addressed overnight.

Craig_in_Prague
29-12-2011, 10:04 AM
Was finding it hard to watch online and that was for free in the comfort of my home. I can't imagine paying 20 odd quid for a ticket + travel/beers/food to suffer this Hibs team. I understand that fans staying away doesn't help us try get better as money is lost but there is really only so much people can take. I never ever thought I'd feel so out of love with Hibs like this.

JohnScott
29-12-2011, 10:55 AM
I thought last nights crowd was pretty good given the circumstances. The two BIG teams (Aberdeen and Hearts) didn't do much better. As for St Johnstone? It amazes me we can't compete with a team with home gates of 2500 but hey, what does a glory huntin, part-time supporter like me know eh Albion. Mind you I do know I was at the 1200 home game against Partick and I do remember walking 21 miles home in the early hours from Edinburgh in 1979 after the semi in Glasgow against Aberdeen. Only ten thousand at that game Albion following a fans boycott. Were you there mate?

Sorry bout this given I said yesterday that we should be looking forward, not back but Albion's "crawling out the woodwork" remark got the blood pumping. I still go when I can but paying over £100 a week would be stretching it a bit. I reserve the right to buy my cup final ticket.

That being said I agree with much of Albion's post! Well done to those who did attend last night

Andy74
29-12-2011, 11:05 AM
I thought last nights crowd was pretty good given the circumstances. The two BIG teams (Aberdeen and Hearts) didn't do much better. As for St Johnstone? It amazes me we can't compete with a team with home gates of 2500 but hey, what does a glory huntin, part-time supporter like me know eh Albion. Mind you I do know I was at the 1200 home game against Partick and I do remember walking 21 miles home in the early hours from Edinburgh in 1979 after the semi in Glasgow against Aberdeen. Only ten thousand at that game Albion following a fans boycott. Were you there mate?

Sorry bout this given I said yesterday that we should be looking forward, not back but Albion's "crawling out the woodwork" remark got the blood pumping. I still go when I can but paying over £100 a week would be stretching it a bit. I reserve the right to buy my cup final ticket.

That being said I agree with much of Albion's post! Well done to those who did attend last night

St Johnstone were talked about at the last forum.

I han't realised but they invest next to nothing in their youth teams and development and spend all of their available budget on experienced players. That seems to allow them to compete a bit more than their turover would suggest.

It also helps that they seem to have appointed some decent managers recently.

KeithTheHibby
29-12-2011, 11:05 AM
The story it tells is that Calderwood has ripped the heart out of this team and the club.
The board have provided a budget in excess of most of the teams above us and so the blame the board stuff is nonsense, other than they messed up when they appointed Calderwood.

What is disappointing is that the fans can't try and rally round the new guy now. No, it's not been good watching Hibs but that won't improve, and we can't get new players in unless we stick by them.

I do understand the reasons for staying away but with that you have to accept that its difficult to change the squad and staying away is not helping either the current players or in getting new ones.

The support away to Motherwell was great and I'm not sure why that seems to have vanished already. Sure, we have carried on losing (and now drawing) but that won't be addressed overnight.


Bang on. He brought in the dross that we are watching and his nonsense in the summer tells it's own story.

patlowe
29-12-2011, 11:24 AM
I'd even go so far to say that its worse than what we had under Blobby.

I'd agree. Ach well, there's always the cinema for entertainment.

Hibbyradge
29-12-2011, 11:27 AM
Many moons ago when games were played on Boxing Day etc I am pretty sure they were played during the day. I did not go last night. Guess I am just a fair weather supporter too. It usually takes quite a lot for me to miss a game when I am home on leave. A combination of family, commitments, seasonal demands and probably the doom and gloom I read on here made me decide not to go and spend the time with family I see probably once a year. Many moons ago I would have gone regardless. Times change, attitudes change and priorities change. I sense a bit of abuse may follow this post as people take it the wrong way but the main reason I did not go was because I have been continually told how bad we are on here. Never had that benefit many moons ago. Having said that, conversely looking forward to Monday.

GGTTH.

Traitor!

You could have come to Corstorphine for a pint with me!

Captain Trips
29-12-2011, 11:32 AM
That's a novel idea.

Petrie was there when we had our biggest crowds for years.

Did you blame him then?



I don't remember any crowds like that against Ayr.

Good on him then, so carte blanche is given as he did well in past? just like players who do well in past eventually they lose there ability and we move them on, we do not and shouldnt keep players who fail to perform week in week out because they did well 4yrs ago.

RP did well he though over last few years has made one to many mistakes that have had a very bad effect on the team now and will continue. No matter what good he did he is now hoing the other way.

Steve-O
29-12-2011, 11:34 AM
I would have thought you were wanting first dibs on cup final tickets seeing as yer faimlie is desertin:greengrin

I will no be coming back all that way for the Challenge Cup final!

Hibbyradge
29-12-2011, 11:39 AM
I'm certain that we didn't break the 15k attendance figure even once during !The Great Adventure" when we were winning every week and had some great players in the team.

patlowe
29-12-2011, 11:42 AM
"utter mince" behave yourself. Are you telling me if we got to a final we would not find 25-30k fans? it has happened before so I will be interested to hear your yes / no answer. So I ask you when the going is bad, where the """" are they?

To come out with the usual drivel that hibs should be grateful is nothing short of "utter mince". You are a supporter of the club or you are not. simple.

If you elect to stay home and dive into a dark room over the ELP or watching the game on the internet then as far as I am concerned you are not a fan, intersted follower, maybe. Supporter, no.

The easiest thing in the world is to come up with the pash excuse about needing something more, I was never raised to expect anything being a hibs fan, which makes getting anything a result. "if the club did this, or that...." bore bore bore. Half the folk that claim to be hibs fans would not go if we had a good team and the tickets were free....sad but true.

What exactly are our hidden "fans" wanting the club to give them?

I would call myself a "supporter", I've been to countless games over the years and was there last night. However, if one was to decide after an experience like last night's that going to watch absolute drivel (putting it mildly) in the freezing cold, being surrounded by negativity and in-fighting among supporters, paying almost £5 for a pie and cup of tea on top of a £20 odd ticket, watching your supposedly best player embarrassing himself by repeatedly cheating, seeing our younger players' confidence drain on a weekly basis, finding the most entertaining part of the evening seeing an ICT player unable to take a corner, pushing your commitments and responsibilities for the evening on to other people, and getting home late on a work night was not worth it, then I, for one, would not blame them in the slightest. It's a sad fact but I can understand why many people find better things to do with their life.

Steve-O
29-12-2011, 11:43 AM
I'm certain that we didn't break the 15k attendance figure even once during !The Great Adventure" when we were winning every week and had some great players in the team.

If we didn't break it once, we got pretty close to it :agree:

Kaiser1962
29-12-2011, 11:45 AM
if you are going to use the quote use the whole quote - what I said that you edited was - I'd blame it on Petrie & the sub standard half hearted players

as regards the crowd versus Ayr, okay it was 16k not 20k

Still 10k more than tonight


It was 14,106

Season 98/99 we averaged 10,433. 14,801 was the highest against Falkirk in the last game of that season.

Steve-O
29-12-2011, 11:50 AM
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1998%E2%80%9399_Hibernian_F.C._season

A couple of times close to 15k but mainly around 10k. Got to remember thats without much away support most of the time too. We should get 10k if we are anywhere near decent, rising to about 14k if we are good, and we can even dream of hitting 20k if we are doing really well and are playing OF or Hertz. Sadly that seems so far away at the moment.

Sweep
29-12-2011, 11:54 AM
Season ticket holders not going....We can't even give tickets away at the moment

I didn't go last night, fed up to the max with it all. Going to the derby though but bricking it, new players can't come soon enough.

Kaiser1962
29-12-2011, 11:59 AM
Absolutely, if I didn't already have the ST, I'd be desperate to pay for an over-priced ticket, beer and food so that I could sit, freezing my arse off, bored out of my tits.

Having said that though, we keep hearing about how Hibs is a business so maybe it's right to expect the supporters to act like customers? Not many customers will keeping getting mugged with the same old toot, time after time.

Your first part is spot on. :agree:


The trouble with running Hibs as a business is that we are in a market like no other and our competitors dont adhere to normal practice. Using business criteria Hibs are light years ahead of Hearts but, because Hearts do better on the pitch, that fact is lost. You can also add that they are bust but that appears to be acceptable as long as they win. Rangers have won three tiltles in a row yet sold for a pound and even have a plan to put the club into administration which would enable then to dump any debt, and carry on, should their myriad of court cases go against them. Their argument that they broke no law may well be true but they knew exactly what they were doing and deserve to be made to cough up. But Rangers, compared to Hibs, are a success. Dont figure.

Kaiser1962
29-12-2011, 12:01 PM
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1998–99_Hibernian_F.C._season

A couple of times close to 15k but mainly around 10k. Got to remember thats without much away support most of the time too. We should get 10k if we are anywhere near decent, rising to about 14k if we are good, and we can even dream of hitting 20k if we are doing really well and are playing OF or Hertz. Sadly that seems so far away at the moment.

We have averaged over 14k four times in the last 50 years and have not averaged over 15k in the last 40 years.

Andy74
29-12-2011, 12:04 PM
Your first part is spot on. :agree:


The trouble with running Hibs as a business is that we are in a market like no other and our competitors dont adhere to normal practice. Using business criteria Hibs are light years ahead of Hearts but, because Hearts do better on the pitch, that fact is lost. You can also add that they are bust but that appears to be acceptable as long as they win. Rangers have won three tiltles in a row yet sold for a pound and even have a plan to put the club into administration which would enable then to dump any debt, and carry on, should their myriad of court cases go against them. Their argument that they broke no law may well be true but they knew exactly what they were doing and deserve to be made to cough up. But Rangers, compared to Hibs, are a success. Dont figure.

Hibs aren't run as a business for the fun of it, to get a team on the park we need to make ends meet.

Forget Rangers as they will still do okay on their turover whatever happens but Hearts can't carry on being better on the pitch forever in this state. Their dominance in most of our lifetimes has been built on overspending. More dramatically in recent times but with it will be a more dramatic fall.

None of this really matters when we can get a decent manager who picks decent players. All the talk of how we are run disappears.

I would say though that how we are run should give us a platform to do better than others on the pitch but you are always limited by the manager and what he does with the budget that he has been given.

nortonhibby
29-12-2011, 12:05 PM
I Hope the message is finally getting through to RP As he dits there looking out at all the thousands of empty seats INVEST INVEST INVEST In the team before it is to late.

Andy74
29-12-2011, 12:07 PM
I Hope the message is finally getting through to RP As he dits there looking out at all the thousands of empty seats INVEST INVEST INVEST In the team before it is to late.

Invest what?

And why are the teams who have less of a budget doing better if just chucking more money around is the answer?

johnrebus
29-12-2011, 12:07 PM
I think the time is rapidly approaching where us, the fans, have to take a lead on all of this, before the club goes past the point of no return and we turn into another Dundee.

We need to get together with STF and decide the best direction to take, starting with the exit of Rod Petrie, whose very presence at the club is now driving people away.

I do not know what the answer is, but I do know that we need to act in the very near future.

:everythin

Kaiser1962
29-12-2011, 12:07 PM
Hibs aren't run as a business for the fun of it, to get a team on the park we need to make ends meet.

No one else does. Which is my point.

Kaiser1962
29-12-2011, 12:10 PM
Invest what?

And why are the teams who have less of a budget doing better if just chucking more money around is the answer?

Generally they dont Andy. They take turns at finishing above us :greengrin

The last two seasons have been dire though.

Kaiser1962
29-12-2011, 12:11 PM
I Hope the message is finally getting through to RP As he dits there looking out at all the thousands of empty seats INVEST INVEST INVEST In the team before it is to late.

:taxi


:greengrin

Hibbyradge
29-12-2011, 12:17 PM
If we didn't break it once, we got pretty close to it :agree:

We did, but we also regularly had crowds of less than 9000 and we once only made 8000.

There's a popular myth that we were often selling out because we were playing well and had a chance of winning the league. It's just not true.

It's the same myth that used to back up the OFGTF argument.

Kaiser1962
29-12-2011, 12:24 PM
We did, but we also regularly had crowds of less than 8000.

There's a popular myth that we were often selling out because we were playing well and had a chance of winning the league. It's just not true.

It's the same myth that used to back up the OFGTF argument.

We didnt. Lowest home attendance during the Great Adventure was 8,649 which was against Stranraer.

Hibbyradge
29-12-2011, 12:26 PM
We didnt. Lowest home attendance during the Great Adventure was 8,649 which was against Stranraer.

I edited my post, but the first game of the season was 8000.

Kaiser1962
29-12-2011, 12:28 PM
I think the time is rapidly approaching where us, the fans, have to take a lead on all of this, before the club goes past the point of no return and we turn into another Dundee.

We need to get together with STF and decide the best direction to take, starting with the exit of Rod Petrie, whose very presence at the club is now driving people away.

I do not know what the answer is, but I do know that we need to act in the very near future.

:everythin


The reason we wont end up in the finacial situation that Dundee are in is because of the measures that are in place.

FWIW I would ban any club which goes into administration from exiting administration until all their debts are paid in full.

Hermit Crab
29-12-2011, 12:41 PM
I have been a s/t holder for around ten years now, yes I know that's small time compared to the ubers on here.
I have not missed an away game this season either.I was working last night finished at the back of 7, could have made the game albeit missing maybe first 20 minutes so I opted not to go to the game but gave my ticket away to a friend and I went to meet my mates in the boozer to watch the old firm game and do you know what what I didn't even feel bad about missing the game. Don't get me wrong I'm not stopping going to games but last night having been to pittrodrie and tannadice in recent weeks and watched utter pish from Hibs I felt stuff it if the players aren't going to make an effort then why should I.

So according to some on here I'm no longer a fan and should sit in my arm chair from now on. Should I be Hounded out as a part timer or have I been punished enough with the dross I've watched over the last 2 years and last night I wanted a night off where as the players have taken a 2 year holiday to themselves imo.

Disgruntled Hermit Crab:grr:

puff the dragon
29-12-2011, 01:25 PM
I actually feel that this season has done me a favour.

I have pretty much had a season ticket for the last 17 years (all except 1 year when I had to work Saturdays) but as the team are so gash and the entertainment is so poor I have only used it 3 times.

I have discovered that there are plenty more enjoyable things to do on a Staurday afternoon and have got more into the Horse Racing and go to more rugby than I ever did before. Both sports provide a far greater spectator experience above being treated like a piece of filth at a football match.

I am definately not renewing my season ticket as I'd rather go to Murrayfield, Musselburgh, Ayr, Perth, Hamilton or Kelso on a Saturday. I will pick the odd game in the future when they get a decent team on the park but Hibs are now my 3rd choice behing the racing and the rugby.

Scottish football is murder and the imposters and gadgies that play do not deserve the support so they are no longer getting it.

joe breezy
29-12-2011, 01:32 PM
There are thousands more Hibs fans in town right now, people like me back to visit family for the festive period...

I stayed in last night, have seen enough to know how bad it is...

Sad but that's the way it is

Andy74
29-12-2011, 01:40 PM
I actually feel that this season has done me a favour.

I have pretty much had a season ticket for the last 17 years (all except 1 year when I had to work Saturdays) but as the team are so gash and the entertainment is so poor I have only used it 3 times.

I have discovered that there are plenty more enjoyable things to do on a Staurday afternoon and have got more into the Horse Racing and go to more rugby than I ever did before. Both sports provide a far greater spectator experience above being treated like a piece of filth at a football match.

I am definately not renewing my season ticket as I'd rather go to Murrayfield, Musselburgh, Ayr, Perth, Hamilton or Kelso on a Saturday. I will pick the odd game in the future when they get a decent team on the park but Hibs are now my 3rd choice behing the racing and the rugby.

Scottish football is murder and the imposters and gadgies that play do not deserve the support so they are no longer getting it.

Rugby? Gies a break.

puff the dragon
29-12-2011, 01:50 PM
Rugby? Gies a break.

At Edinburgh & Scotland games at Murrayfiled you can see some of the best players in the world in the 6 nations, the Heineken Cup and the Celtic league.

The ticket prices for Edinburgh games are £15-£20.

The police do not look at every supporter as if they were about to shop lift.

The players are not total chavs.

You can take the wife without having to subject her to some of the absolute vermin who watch football.

The fans can be trusted to not only sit together unsegregated but also drink together unsegregated.

Far superior for the spectatorboth on and off the pitch in Scotland. Scottish football is on a decline it will never come out of.

Andy74
29-12-2011, 02:04 PM
At Edinburgh & Scotland games at Murrayfiled you can see some of the best players in the world in the 6 nations, the Heineken Cup and the Celtic league.

The ticket prices for Edinburgh games are £15-£20.

The police do not look at every supporter as if they were about to shop lift.

The players are not total chavs.

You can take the wife without having to subject her to some of the absolute vermin who watch football.

The fans can be trusted to not only sit together unsegregated but also drink together unsegregated.

Far superior for the spectatorboth on and off the pitch in Scotland. Scottish football is on a decline it will never come out of.

Its so good that less than 5,000 people generally turn up in a 70,000 seater stadium.

This in a city where the it is the establishment's sport and 60,000 suddenly appear to watch international games where most of the people there have no idea what's going on as its been so long since their last match.

But the quality of the punter is better, that's important in Currie I guess.

Sorry, but a bad day at the football will always beat the best at the rugby.

puff the dragon
29-12-2011, 02:15 PM
Its so good that less than 5,000 people generally turn up in a 70,000 seater stadium.

This in a city where the it is the establishment's sport and 60,000 suddenly appear to watch international games where most of the people there have no idea what's going on as its been so long since their last match.

But the quality of the punter is better, that's important in Currie I guess.

Sorry, but a bad day at the football will always beat the best at the rugby.

But is a bad day at the football better now? Yesterday's crowd shows that people can't be bothered for a festive match of football but 13,000 could be bothered for a boxing day rugby match at Murrayfield.

The oint of my rant was that Hibs are in danger of losing more folk like me who had been season tickets for years but have turned to something else as they have got fed up of the utter dross on the pitch that they stop going.

It may not be rugby - it may be ice hockey, the cinema, golf, gardening, sewing etc but either way if Hibs manage to turn it around and perform to a reasonable standard they will struggle to get folk back. Yesterday's attendance shows that even season ticket holders are giving up.

johnrebus
29-12-2011, 02:38 PM
The reason we wont end up in the finacial situation that Dundee are in is because of the measures that are in place.

FWIW I would ban any club which goes into administration from exiting administration until all their debts are paid in full.


Am talking about Dundee as an established First Division Club, with little hope of progressing beyond that status.


:cb

Hibbyradge
29-12-2011, 02:44 PM
But is a bad day at the football better now? Yesterday's crowd shows that people can't be bothered for a festive match of football but 13,000 could be bothered for a boxing day rugby match at Murrayfield.

The oint of my rant was that Hibs are in danger of losing more folk like me who had been season tickets for years but have turned to something else as they have got fed up of the utter dross on the pitch that they stop going.

It may not be rugby - it may be ice hockey, the cinema, golf, gardening, sewing etc but either way if Hibs manage to turn it around and perform to a reasonable standard they will struggle to get folk back. Yesterday's attendance shows that even season ticket holders are giving up.

All good points.

I play golf on a Saturday now, but you're spot on.

Football is Scotland's national game. It has many times more supporters than rugby, yet the supposed 4th biggest football club in Scotland attracts less than 7000 for an important top flight game, and the tickets were mostly free!

5000 at Murrayfield on a Friday night is excellent in comparison.

I might even go along myself one time.

But probably not. :greengrin

Captain Trips
29-12-2011, 02:51 PM
26/12/10 - V Aberdeen 10,115
29/12/10 - V Dundee Utd 10,252

27/12/09 - V Rangers 16894

27/12/08 - V Kilmarnock 12,117

Put into the grand scheme of things the 6000+ crowd is really a massive statement that what is on offer is now truly affecting income at club. Serious questions should be asked by STF on what RP has done, income must be down below any expected downturn in economy, RP is now failing and should be removed.

NAE NOOKIE
29-12-2011, 02:56 PM
So many things on this thread to comment on its hard to know where to start.

Whats so wrong with wanting Hibs to find money to invest in the team, its how football works FFS just coz other teams have gone belly up through insane spending doesnt mean it will happen to Hibs if the push the boat out a bit. When was the last time a balance sheet was paraded along Princes Street ?

If you are in the camp who think that Golf or Rugger or Horse racing or Sky sports is a better way to spend a Saturday / Sunday / Wednesday then cool, who can argue with you, but if that is the case then remove yourself to a forum devoted to those subjects and leave H.Net to us 'mugs' who still think that sticking with their team ( no matter how admittedly gash they are ) is something worth holding on to, not to mention Scottish football as a whole.

Quite frankly I'm getting fed up coming on here to be told what a waste of time and money it is sticking with the Hibs / Scottish football. If you are talking about value for money, entertainment value and all that stuff, then yeh you are no doubt correct. But I always thought that being a fan of a football club was more than that, that sticking with your club through thick and mostly thin was part of the experience and doing that gave you and your fellow supporters the respect of other fans, which surely to a football fan is something worth having and to an extent makes up for the team you support being gash.

I do agree with those who listed the weather as a factor last night. On the way up to Edinburgh last night it was like parts of the road were paved in twigs, not to mention nearly getting blown sideways on the bypass and it was bloody freezing in the ground. Respect to the Inverness fans who made the trip.

There is a lot wrong with Scottish football and too many scared short sighted people in charge of it who cant admit that the radical things which can be done should be done. A bigger league, Summer football etc etc.

Anyway ..... Perhaps the folk who run this site sould set up another forum to run alongside the main forum. They could call it 'the customers forum' where folk who think that supporting a football club is the same as going to the supermarket or the pictures and that value for money or the entertainment value is all that matters and the whole of their football experience.

:tin hat:

Beefster
29-12-2011, 05:22 PM
The story it tells is that Calderwood has ripped the heart out of this team and the club.

The board have provided a budget in excess of most of the teams above us and so the blame the board stuff is nonsense, other than they messed up when they appointed Calderwood.

What is disappointing is that the fans can't try and rally round the new guy now. No, it's not been good watching Hibs but that won't improve, and we can't get new players in unless we stick by them.

I do understand the reasons for staying away but with that you have to accept that its difficult to change the squad and staying away is not helping either the current players or in getting new ones.

The support away to Motherwell was great and I'm not sure why that seems to have vanished already. Sure, we have carried on losing (and now drawing) but that won't be addressed overnight.

You seem to be forgetting Hughes' role in ripping the heart out of the club. He's almost as much to blame as Calderwood.

The bit in bold is ironic consider how long you gave Calderwood though.


St Johnstone were talked about at the last forum.

I han't realised but they invest next to nothing in their youth teams and development and spend all of their available budget on experienced players. That seems to allow them to compete a bit more than their turover would suggest.

It also helps that they seem to have appointed some decent managers recently.

St Johnstone don't invest much on youth but don't rely on selling players to make ends meet either. It works for them so I suppose we shouldn't knock it.

Kaiser1962
29-12-2011, 05:55 PM
Am talking about Dundee as an established First Division Club, with little hope of progressing beyond that status.


:cb


Why are they in the position they are in?

Kaiser1962
29-12-2011, 06:05 PM
St Johnstone don't invest much on youth but don't rely on selling players to make ends meet either. It works for them so I suppose we shouldn't knock it.

St.Johnstone finished 3rd and 5th in season 98-99 and 99-00. They then finished 10th and were 12th and relegated the next . They then spent the next seven seasons in the first division (neither Billy Stark nor Owen Coyle could gain promotion with them) and they were eventually promoted under Derek mcInnes and returned to the SPL for season 09-10 when the finished 8th and again finished 8th the following season.

Andy74
29-12-2011, 06:09 PM
You seem to be forgetting Hughes' role in ripping the heart out of the club. He's almost as much to blame as Calderwood.

The bit in bold is ironic consider how long you gave Calderwood though.



St Johnstone don't invest much on youth but don't rely on selling players to make ends meet either. It works for them so I suppose we shouldn't knock it.

He's nowhere near to being as much to blame as Calderwood. We had a decent team that was under performing and still short in certain areas. We are now a total shambles. I gave Calderwood a number of months until it became clear he was useless. I still went to all the games though.

Alfred E Newman
29-12-2011, 06:57 PM
I can understand why people are reluctant to walk up and pay good money to watch the dross being served up at the moment but season ticket holders staying away doesn`t wash with me. I have given as much stick to the players as anyone but it struck me last night during an outbreak of booing that we have really passed that stage. We are heading for relegation and like it or not we are going to have to rely on the bulk of the present squad to get us out of this mess. We have made our feelings known often enough now and the only way we are going to get any improvement out of the current squad is by encouragement not abuse. Sitting at home and patting yourself on the back for not going to watch "that crap" is not going to keep us in the Premier League. The alternative doesn`t bear thinking about..

hugo boss
29-12-2011, 07:02 PM
blame it on midweek

blame it on the weather

blame it on the credit crunch and no money

blame it on the SPL

personally - I'd blame it on Petrie & the sub standard half hearted players

I remember 20k at Easter Rd at home vs Ayr in 98/99
we never had 20k against ayr FACT

Winston Ingram
29-12-2011, 07:24 PM
Nothing to add

The attendance tonight tells its own story

We certainly have a loyal bunch of fans:agree:

johnrebus
29-12-2011, 07:41 PM
Why are they in the position they are in?

Does not matter why.

The thing is that we could end up in a similar position.


Stuck in Division One

Kaiser1962
29-12-2011, 08:18 PM
Does not matter why.



:rolleyes:

Feed McGraw
29-12-2011, 08:27 PM
He's nowhere near to being as much to blame as Calderwood. We had a decent team that was under performing and still short in certain areas. We are now a total shambles. I gave Calderwood a number of months until it became clear he was useless. I still went to all the games though.

Oh yes he damn well IS. More so IMO, it`s just that CC couldn`t fix it.

hibsbollah
29-12-2011, 08:39 PM
I think people underestimate the impact of the economic downturn on attendances in general. Lowest crowds in years at Goodison Park I was reading the other day.

Even if we had Mowbray-era football now, i'd guess we'd have less than Mowbray-era attendances. Selling out Easter Road seems an impossible dream at the moment.

Beefster
29-12-2011, 08:43 PM
I think people underestimate the impact of the economic downturn on attendances in general. Lowest crowds in years at Goodison Park I was reading the other day.

Even if we had Mowbray-era football now, i'd guess we'd have less than Mowbray-era attendances. Selling out Easter Road seems an impossible dream at the moment.

Evertonians are almost as disillusioned with what's happening at their club as we are.

The economy may have had an impact but nowhere near as much as the mediocrity.

johnrebus
29-12-2011, 09:00 PM
:rolleyes:



:dummytit:

nortonhibby
29-12-2011, 09:29 PM
I think people underestimate the impact of the economic downturn on attendances in general. Lowest crowds in years at Goodison Park I was reading the other day.

Even if we had Mowbray-era football now, i'd guess we'd have less than Mowbray-era attendances. Selling out Easter Road seems an impossible dream at the moment.

good post we just dont have the money in these troubled times.

Kaiser1962
30-12-2011, 07:45 AM
:dummytit:


How does it not matter why? Thats stupid.

They ended up where they are because those running the club did what lots on here are urging our board to do. They "speculated to accumulate" and accumulated **** all. They lost everything they had and were so stupid they did it twice. The second time they listened to and followed a snake oil salesman, a charlatan who told them he could deliver what they wanted. His mouth, like so many others, was bigger than their wallet.

Dundee lost everything and that they did this to Dundee, a club who should be at the top end of Scottish Football, is scandalous. But it was allowed to happen because when the Dundee fans were watching Cannigia and Caballero and talking, very seriously, about Maradona, they were on cloud nine. They didnt give a **** how it was paid for, like the Livi fans at the League Cup final, and now they are well and truly ****ed.

You are right in that it is unlikely they will be back where they belong BECAUSE they gambled their club and, like so many others, failed miserably.

BT58
30-12-2011, 08:43 AM
The recession is stillwith the majority of us
Ive been a fan for close to 40 years now(20 odd as s/t)home and away(picnic branch)
Now ive had to give up following my team, due to health & financial reasons
Crap football aint just at ER,, theres some games on EPL that are right stinkers
I take my hat off to ALL the guys who where at ER last night, weather(all forms of) should be taken into account
Safety is paramount to all
Some guys on this forum love to wind others up
Ive just been caught
HAPPY NEW YEAR ALL!!!!!!
bt

Andy74
30-12-2011, 09:16 AM
Oh yes he damn well IS. More so IMO, it`s just that CC couldn`t fix it.

Well that's total nonsense.

CC made it worse, far worse.

IWasThere2016
30-12-2011, 09:24 AM
Oh yes he damn well IS. More so IMO, it`s just that CC couldn`t fix it.

Yup. The rot set in from early 2010. We started to lose games regularly and we cannae stop it. #74 forgets Yogi has the worst ever home record for the Hibs. He is also still out of work over a year on .. No surprise to those who don't have their heids up Yogi's erchie.


Evertonians are almost as disillusioned with what's happening at their club as we are.

The economy may have had an impact but nowhere near as much as the mediocrity.

Correct. There are other examples eg Villa - attendances are down because of Eck's boring tactics and were holding during the early part of this recession

Its going to take a great team to emerge in a really short spell to correct the slump at ER - otherwise it will take years for attendences to recover

We've been on the slide since the CIS final in early March .. Why? Because in Rod we trust IMHO .. Good players sold, replaced by poorer ones, tangible assets and more debt/running costs - the wrong priorities, thus neglecting the core business. Genius Petrie. Genius!
.

The Falcon
30-12-2011, 11:39 AM
We've been on the slide since the CIS final in early March .. Why? Because in Rod we trust IMHO .. Good players sold, replaced by poorer ones, tangible assets and more debt/running costs - the wrong priorities, thus neglecting the core business. Genius Petrie. Genius!
.

So what would you have done with those players TQM?

Take Brown,Thomson, Whittaker and Murphy for starters. How would you have kept them at ER?

We can add O'Connor, Riordan, Fletcher and Killen later.

Eyrie
30-12-2011, 12:22 PM
We've been on the slide since the CIS final in early March .. Why? Because in Rod we trust IMHO .. Good players sold, replaced by poorer ones, tangible assets and more debt/running costs - the wrong priorities, thus neglecting the core business. Genius Petrie. Genius!
.
Surely the problem isn't the sale of good players for serious money but the continuing failure to replace them with either new signings or our own youngsters?

And we can't always keep players because those with genuine talent should aspire to play at a higher level than the SPL. It's one of the reasons why I get pissed off when they then end up with one of the Ugly Sisters. Fletcher had the correct ambition.

Hibby Bairn
30-12-2011, 12:31 PM
Watched a great half hour documentary on Rinus Michels the other day. Philosophy was about attacking and winning games. Not trying not to lose them.

The trying "not to lose" mentality has crept into football in UK over the past 15 years (possibly more) and as a result games are mediocre and at times just plain boring.

That is one big reason why attendances are in decline.

Andy74
30-12-2011, 12:38 PM
Surely the problem isn't the sale of good players for serious money but the continuing failure to replace them with either new signings or our own youngsters?

And we can't always keep players because those with genuine talent should aspire to play at a higher level than the SPL. It's one of the reasons why I get pissed off when they then end up with one of the Ugly Sisters. Fletcher had the correct ambition.

The problem has been that those managers didn't choose the right options to replace them.

We had previously signed the likes of Boozy, Murphy, Shiels, Sproule, Benji, Zemmama, Killen and Jones within our budget.

Even after that time we were able to dig deep to get the likes of Riordan, Murray Stokes and Miller.

It's missing the point to blame Petrie or anyone else for a decline in how we've been playing. It's been down to poor selection of players since those days. Even then Mowbray had a few misses too!

Steve-O
30-12-2011, 12:48 PM
Watched a great half hour documentary on Rinus Michels the other day. Philosophy was about attacking and winning games. Not trying not to lose them.

The trying "not to lose" mentality has crept into football in UK over the past 15 years (possibly more) and as a result games are mediocre and at times just plain boring.

That is one big reason why attendances are in decline.

Should introduce bonus points for scoring 4 or more I reckon. Something to encourage more attacking play :agree:

Beefster
30-12-2011, 12:51 PM
The problem has been that those managers didn't choose the right options to replace them.

We had previously signed the likes of Boozy, Murphy, Shiels, Sproule, Benji, Zemmama, Killen and Jones within our budget.

Even after that time we were able to dig deep to get the likes of Riordan, Murray Stokes and Miller.

It's missing the point to blame Petrie or anyone else for a decline in how we've been playing. It's been down to poor selection of players since those days. Even then Mowbray had a few misses too!

You're right, signing duds has been a major part of why we are so bad now. I'd argue that the only major outlay that paid off (performance-wise) was Stokes. Even then, we had to take a haircut on him as 'he was destroying the club' ((c) everyone who didn't realise he was carrying the team).

The most expensive duds of recent years have been O'Brien, De Graaf and Hart. We could have had much better players for less money. Hughes and Collins have a lot to answer for about the way they wasted our money.

IWasThere2016
30-12-2011, 03:18 PM
So what would you have done with those players TQM?

Take Brown,Thomson, Whittaker and Murphy for starters. How would you have kept them at ER?

We can add O'Connor, Riordan, Fletcher and Killen later.

You've missed my other points re poorer replacements and the wrong (other) priorities.

IWasThere2016
30-12-2011, 03:23 PM
You're right, signing duds has been a major part of why we are so bad now. I'd argue that the only major outlay that paid off (performance-wise) was Stokes. Even then, we had to take a haircut on him as 'he was destroying the club' ((c) everyone who didn't realise he was carrying the team).

The most expensive duds of recent years have been O'Brien, De Graaf and Hart. We could have had much better players for less money. Hughes and Collins have a lot to answer for about the way they wasted our money.

Indeed.

The Falcon
30-12-2011, 07:34 PM
You've missed my other points re poorer replacements and the wrong (other) priorities.


Did you expect the replacements to be of a similar standard to those that had moved for multi-million pound deals and mega bucks wages? Granted the replacements failed to live up to expectations and are you seriously blaming Rod for that.

By tangible assets you mean the training ground and the East stand I presume. Our running cost have been increased by having our own training ground rather than raking around for a public park to train on.
If you use your criteria then Hearts are a roaring success and the model of how a football club should be run. No tangible assetts, hire a training ground rather than have your own, and their core business (football) is better than ours.

King Paddy
30-12-2011, 07:53 PM
If results continue in a downward spiral i can see us getting crowds not dissimilar to St.Mirren, St. jonstone, etc. 4,000 or 5,000 at E.R. in a 20,000 seater stadium(ghost like) atmosphere.
We have been heading in this direction for a number of years and it might take relegation for the powers that be to wake up and smell the coffee.

Baldy Foghorn
31-12-2011, 01:28 PM
If results continue in a downward spiral i can see us getting crowds not dissimilar to St.Mirren, St. jonstone, etc. 4,000 or 5,000 at E.R. in a 20,000 seater stadium(ghost like) atmosphere.
We have been heading in this direction for a number of years and it might take relegation for the powers that be to wake up and smell the coffee.

If we did go down, there is no guarantee we would come back up at first time of asking.............. We must ensure we stay up at all costs

IWasThere2016
31-12-2011, 01:48 PM
Did you expect the replacements to be of a similar standard to those that had moved for multi-million pound deals and mega bucks wages? Granted the replacements failed to live up to expectations and are you seriously blaming Rod for that.

By tangible assets you mean the training ground and the East stand I presume. Our running cost have been increased by having our own training ground rather than raking around for a public park to train on.
If you use your criteria then Hearts are a roaring success and the model of how a football club should be run. No tangible assetts, hire a training ground rather than have your own, and their core business (football) is better than ours.

Yes - I said all that, and those are my criteria :faf: Thanks Rod for your wisdom once again.

The Falcon
31-12-2011, 02:08 PM
Yes - I said all that, and those are my criteria :faf: Thanks Rod for your wisdom once again.

You're the one that knows all about the running of a football club and tell us all you're in the know and that Hibs do everything wrong. One can only assume you are Vlad? :confused:

You're seeing Rod everywhere now. You need to let it go.

Kaiser1962
31-12-2011, 02:15 PM
Evertonians are almost as disillusioned with what's happening at their club as we are.

The economy may have had an impact but nowhere near as much as the mediocrity.


Are they shouting for Moyes to go? He's been there a while. 4th longest serving manager in the English leagues.

IWasThere2016
31-12-2011, 02:17 PM
You're the one that knows all about the running of a football club and tell us all you're in the know and that Hibs do everything wrong. One can only assume you are Vlad? :confused:

You're seeing Rod everywhere now. You need to let it go.

:faf:

Let me spell it out s-l-o-w-l-y for you:

A) Priorities all wrong.

B) Team drives income - see 2007 for last 'trading profit'

C) Spending cash, incurring more debt to service, higher running costs, falling on-field standards, falling income, rising losses all inhibit the funds available to hire the right manager, sign better players - thus impacting on B)

Its all linked :wink: and Rodders et al have got it so wrong! I've being saying so for years, and time will prove me right :wink:

The Falcon
31-12-2011, 02:32 PM
:faf:

Let me spell it out s-l-o-w-l-y for you:

A) Priorities all wrong.

B) Team drives income - see 2007 for last 'trading profit'

C) Spending cash, incurring more debt to service, higher running costs, falling on-field standards, falling income, rising losses all inhibit the funds available to hire the right manager, sign better players - thus impacting on B)

Its all linked :wink: and Rodders et al have got it so wrong! I've being saying so for years, and time will prove me right :wink:


A/ so everybody else is right? Yet they are all losing money? Aberdeen dont spend on tangible assetts, neither do Hearts or Dundee United?

B/ Do Hearts not spend on the team to drive income? Or Rangers? Rangers even win things.

C/ A lot off the spending has been forced on us or would you rather we were still piling into the back of a mini bus?

You are being a bit selective with 2007. How many years did Sauzee and co return a profit?

You should send you cv to STF as you appear to have a magic formula that none of the multi millionaires that own SPL clubs can see. :not worth

IWasThere2016
31-12-2011, 03:20 PM
A/ so everybody else is right? Yet they are all losing money? Aberdeen dont spend on tangible assetts, neither do Hearts or Dundee United?

B/ Do Hearts not spend on the team to drive income? Or Rangers? Rangers even win things.

C/ A lot off the spending has been forced on us or would you rather we were still piling into the back of a mini bus?

You are being a bit selective with 2007. How many years did Sauzee and co return a profit?

You should send you cv to STF as you appear to have a magic formula that none of the multi millionaires that own SPL clubs can see. :not worth

Its too late. Rod's bust the baw. More millions will need to be parachuted in fae Holding Co. Unless Paddy's a magician. Embarrassing loss:turnover ratio.

We all dream of 100 Roddy P's
We all dream of 100 Roddy P's
We all dream of 100 Roddy P's :faf:

I'm not interested in others - we should be in a position of strength.

We're not. RP's lead us here. Open yer eyes.

Beefster
31-12-2011, 03:21 PM
Did you expect the replacements to be of a similar standard to those that had moved for multi-million pound deals and mega bucks wages?

When we're talking about guys affordably picked up (Murphy, Killen (who was an adequate replacement for O'Connor himself), Stokes, Jones, Bamba etc etc), I don't think that it's impossible to replace them. If you're talking about Thomson and Brown then no, it was going to be impossible to replace them like-for-like.

RickyS
31-12-2011, 03:23 PM
A/ so everybody else is right? Yet they are all losing money? Aberdeen dont spend on tangible assetts, neither do Hearts or Dundee United?

B/ Do Hearts not spend on the team to drive income? Or Rangers? Rangers even win things.

C/ A lot off the spending has been forced on us or would you rather we were still piling into the back of a mini bus?

You are being a bit selective with 2007. How many years did Sauzee and co return a profit?

You should send you cv to STF as you appear to have a magic formula that none of the multi millionaires that own SPL clubs can see. :not worth

not getting involved in ur squabble with TQM at all, but thats exactly what they deserve, there aint a player in our squad who deserve the magnificent facilities we provide:cb

IWasThere2016
31-12-2011, 03:28 PM
When we're talking about guys affordably picked up (Murphy, Killen (who was an adequate replacement for O'Connor himself), Stokes, Jones, Bamba etc etc), I don't think that it's impossible to replace them. If you're talking about Thomson and Brown then no, it was going to be impossible to replace them like-for-like.

He knows that fine B. Like all RP's defenders any alternative is seen as a Vlad-type approach.

The manager's budget is going to shrink further also unless STF is going to dig very very deep. We had a B/E point of 11k attedances pre-EM etc.. Ever decreasing circles ..

Kaiser1962
31-12-2011, 06:39 PM
Without wishing to get involved in the squabble either I would suggest that the period 2005-2007 was, as far as Hibs finances were concerned, a perfect storm.

We had a decent manager who brought in decent players. This was likely achieved on the back of the prudence shown during Williamson's reign which, IMHO, is disregarded all too easily when, IMHO, the groundwork done by Williamson played a crucial part in Mowbray's (relative) success. This period was also combined with the "coming of age" of the brightest crop of home grown youngsters for generations. That these players were home grown also meant they were on (relatively) low wages which, combined with their ability and success contributed to a wages to turnover ratio of well below the 50% recomended figure. We have not been below 50% since.

2005 was also a watershed for the SPL financially in that, up to that time, no club until Rangers in 2005 had shown a financial profit from competing in the SPL. Up till 2005 Rangers, Celtic, Hibs, Hearts, Aberdeen, Dundee United, Kilmarnock and Motherwell had recorded losses every single season. In that period we almost lost Motherwell, Livingston and Dundee (for the first time) and did lose Gretna in 2008. Clubs were beginning to wake up a bit to what was happening and reigned, or tried to, their spending in. Hibs crop of extremely talented youngsters, combined with decent pro's, provided the backdrop to the best Hibs side in years and success, relatively speaking, on the field of play, and off it.

The crowds rose but not to a level that could fend of the agents once they began circling and the rest, as they say, is the source of much debate on here.

Financially, since 2005, we have posted an overall profit six seasons in a row up till last, when we recorded out first loss since 2003-2004. Since the millenium Hearts, Celtic, Rangers, Dundee United, Kilmarnock and Aberdeen have posted profits in only 13 out of 61(and Hearts debt forgiveness and United's Thomson input are in the profitable season) seasons with a combined loss of £181.6m. You could add the losses of Dundee, Livi, Gretna and Motherwell, along with debt forgiveness and DFE swaps, into that pot and you will probably be around the quarter of a billion pounds mark.

I think the circumstances that combined to make Mowbray's reign (Collins part should not be dimished either in that he held out to get the best deals for Hibs) are unlikely to be repeated anytime soon although I do expect that the financial structure of Scottish Football will change, it has to, and we are well positioned to take advantage.

In the current climate and set up to seek a repeat of the Mowbray period is unlikely and unrealistic and would be the Hibs equivalent of discovering the Beatles every season. Dosent mean we stop working or trying to.

Beefster
31-12-2011, 06:47 PM
Are they shouting for Moyes to go? He's been there a while. 4th longest serving manager in the English leagues.

No, they're not trying to get Moyes sacked. But they're still disillusioned.

The Falcon
01-01-2012, 01:56 PM
He knows that fine B. Like all RP's defenders any alternative is seen as a Vlad-type approach.

The manager's budget is going to shrink further also unless STF is going to dig very very deep. We had a B/E point of 11k attedances pre-EM etc.. Ever decreasing circles ..

You have not offered an alternative. You have cherry picked a period, an extraordinary period, in Hibs history when, as K62 points out, a set of circumstances combined to make that season particularly fruitful and you are saying that, because that couldnt be maintained, it's all Rod's fault.

I dont know how 2010-2011 compares with ten seasons earlier, and ten before that, but that is how I would measure the progress of the club under the current ownership, not peaks and troughs.

IWasThere2016
01-01-2012, 03:02 PM
You have not offered an alternative. You have cherry picked a period, an extraordinary period, in Hibs history when, as K62 points out, a set of circumstances combined to make that season particularly fruitful and you are saying that, because that couldnt be maintained, it's all Rod's fault.

I dont know how 2010-2011 compares with ten seasons earlier, and ten before that, but that is how I would measure the progress of the club under the current ownership, not peaks and troughs.

I've picked the major factors contributing to the low and the dreadful on/off field results in 10/11 .. There will be worse to come in 11/12. I look forward to further progress, I cannot see it coming soon - nor under RP's continued watch. As the OP says 6,923 says it all.

NORTHERNHIBBY
01-01-2012, 03:14 PM
I know that finances are a complicated subject and capital expenditure is different from player expenditure, and it is not always as easy to say if we didn't build the new stand we could have had this and that. I can't help but wonder if the EM faclility is a bit of a busted flush if the plan that this would be the conveyor to the first team by now, and that player expenditure would only be for a couple of add ons.

Ray_
01-01-2012, 06:35 PM
You have not offered an alternative. You have cherry picked a period, an extraordinary period, in Hibs history when, as K62 points out, a set of circumstances combined to make that season particularly fruitful and you are saying that, because that couldnt be maintained, it's all Rod's fault.

I dont know how 2010-2011 compares with ten seasons earlier, and ten before that, but that is how I would measure the progress of the club under the current ownership, not peaks and troughs.


"You are being a bit selective with 2007. How many years did Sauzee and co return a profit?"

I think you also cherry picked a period, but you tell me? How was Sauzee and Co expected to return a profit when we had to pay the wages of such a massive & largely unused squad & make payments on the huge loans outstanding? No doubt, a large contribution to the huge loans was the massive unused squad. Don't forget, this was also a period when the fans & the club had become estranged [sound familiar?], therefore unlike the TM days, [consultants & SUABC], the club didn't benefit financially, anywhere near as much as it should have done, from having such a good side. That's more to thank our Rod for!

The Falcon
01-01-2012, 06:55 PM
"You are being a bit selective with 2007. How many years did Sauzee and co return a profit?"

I think you also cherry picked a period, but you tell me? How was Sauzee and Co expected to return a profit when we had to pay the wages of such a massive & largely unused squad & make payments on the huge loans outstanding? No doubt, a large contribution to the huge loans was the massive unused squad. Don't forget, this was also a period when the fans & the club had become estranged [sound familiar?], therefore unlike the TM days, [consultants & SUABC], the club didn't benefit financially, anywhere near as much as it should have done, from having such a good side. That's more to thank our Rod for!


So the cost of the squad that McLeish had in 2000-2001 was also Rod's fault? Despite McLeish being there for over three years at the end of that season? Thats brilliant!

Beefster
01-01-2012, 07:16 PM
So the cost of the squad that McLeish had in 2000-2001 was also Rod's fault? Despite McLeish being there for over three years at the end of that season? Thats brilliant!

Unless you think McLeish had unauthorised spending, yes, as CEO Rodders was [jointly] responsible for the overspending.

The Falcon
01-01-2012, 07:36 PM
Unless you think McLeish had unauthorised spending, yes, as CEO Rodders was [jointly] responsible for the overspending.

The title of another thread was that Farmer and Petrie should invest or leave? McLeish's spending was authorised, of course it was, but we still made huge losses so why do folk think it will be different this time or what do they think the outcome will be.

But, basically, it's Rods fault if we are in debt but it's also Rod's fault if we try and reign in the spending. We get in players of the calibre of Sauzee, and subsequently lose cash, it's Rods fault but it's also his fault that if we dont sign players of that calibre and the side suffers.

That about it?

Ray_
01-01-2012, 09:44 PM
So the cost of the squad that McLeish had in 2000-2001 was also Rod's fault? Despite McLeish being there for over three years at the end of that season? Thats brilliant!

Of course it was, he was CE was he not? And where did it just come down to 2000/1, we started hoarding dross well before then, we even paid sizeable fee's for some of them!

The Falcon
01-01-2012, 10:22 PM
Of course it was, he was CE was he not? And where did it just come down to 2000/1, we started hoarding dross well before then, we even paid sizeable fee's for some of them!

It was merely a comment that, rather than just select 2007 when we won a trophy for only the third time in my lifetime, that we should compare where we are to where we were 10 years ago and ten years before that and so on to get a measure of overall progress at the club.

It just happened that ten seasons before last was the era of Sauzee and Latapy et al.

IWasThere2016
01-01-2012, 10:59 PM
The title of another thread was that Farmer and Petrie should invest or leave? McLeish's spending was authorised, of course it was, but we still made huge losses so why do folk think it will be different this time or what do they think the outcome will be.

But, basically, it's Rods fault if we are in debt but it's also Rod's fault if we try and reign in the spending. We get in players of the calibre of Sauzee, and subsequently lose cash, it's Rods fault but it's also his fault that if we dont sign players of that calibre and the side suffers.

That about it?

I look forward to your take on the 11/12 accounts - particularly if losses aren't reduced by player sales and we have a loss of £2m on a turnover of £7m. Any defence of the Board then will be laughable IMHO.

Sir David Gray
01-01-2012, 11:22 PM
No, they're not trying to get Moyes sacked. But they're still disillusioned.

In the 9 full seasons that Moyes has had in charge, Everton have finished;

2002-03:7th
2003-04:17th
2004-05:4th
2005-06:11th
2006-07:6th
2007-08:5th
2008-09:5th
2009-10:8th
2010-11:7th

An average league position of around 8th place, not finished outside the top half for six years, 1 Champions League qualification and 3 Europa League qualifications.

That's not bad for a team that's got no money.

I'd love to be as disillusioned as that! :greengrin

Beefster
02-01-2012, 08:03 AM
The title of another thread was that Farmer and Petrie should invest or leave? McLeish's spending was authorised, of course it was, but we still made huge losses so why do folk think it will be different this time or what do they think the outcome will be.

But, basically, it's Rods fault if we are in debt but it's also Rod's fault if we try and reign in the spending. We get in players of the calibre of Sauzee, and subsequently lose cash, it's Rods fault but it's also his fault that if we dont sign players of that calibre and the side suffers.

That about it?

Nope, not my opinion.

Rodders does have responsibility for the over-spending and the subsequent cost-cutting. I'm all for them remaining within budget now. My issue is with them not doing enough to grow that budget (by increasing turnover).

As for the players, I think that some of the responsibility lies with the apparent demise of the scouting operation at the club. Some of it lies with previous managers identifying and signing huddies themselves.

The Falcon
02-01-2012, 08:55 AM
I look forward to your take on the 11/12 accounts - particularly if losses aren't reduced by player sales and we have a loss of £2m on a turnover of £7m. Any defence of the Board then will be laughable IMHO.

The 11-12 accounts will be a train wreck and it's hardly an act of great insight to state that. The loss last season was the first in seven seasons and this one will be worse but Farmer has shown he will financially support the club if and when it becomes neccessary which means we are in a very fortunate position. And again you are taking a loss and using it as a stick to beat the board with and, although you have stated that you are not interested in what happens elsewhere, it is stated on this thread that the top SPL clubs have lost, overall, about £250m over the last ten years. Yet the fact Hibs have bucked this trend is despite the board and not because of it.

The Falcon
02-01-2012, 09:00 AM
Nope, not my opinion.

Rodders does have responsibility for the over-spending and the subsequent cost-cutting. I'm all for them remaining within budget now. My issue is with them not doing enough to grow that budget (by increasing turnover).

As for the players, I think that some of the responsibility lies with the apparent demise of the scouting operation at the club. Some of it lies with previous managers identifying and signing huddies themselves.

Times are difficult and the fact that our income and wage bill have risen, despite a downturn in TV revenue and, more recently, falling crowds, would suggest that we are holding our own. No one is increasing revenue in the SPL and it's akin to trying to sell betamax video recorders.

Beefster
02-01-2012, 09:04 AM
Times are difficult and the fact that our income and wage bill have risen, despite a downturn in TV revenue and, more recently, falling crowds, would suggest that we are holding our own. No one is increasing revenue in the SPL and it's akin to trying to sell betamax video recorders.

I possibly should have said 'not trying enough to grow the budget'.

The Falcon
02-01-2012, 09:21 AM
I possibly should have said 'not trying enough to grow the budget'.

We dont know that they are not trying, we do know they are, like everybody else, not succeeding. If everybody else was increasing their revenue and profitability and we weren't I would be very concerned.

The recent Club Membership scheme that was launched looked a decent initiative but there were then folks who had bought ST's moaning about the discounts offered. Chasing corporate funds is a difficult gig and will be for the next few seasons I would expect, so the Club scheme was an attempt to get supporters in and as such should be seen as a positive.

Kaiser1962
02-01-2012, 10:19 AM
Times are difficult and the fact that our income and wage bill have risen, despite a downturn in TV revenue and, more recently, falling crowds, would suggest that we are holding our own. No one is increasing revenue in the SPL and it's akin to trying to sell betamax video recorders.

Our income hasn't risen, it has stayed pretty much stagnant on last season but has fallen since it's peak in 2007. Wages have, along with wages to turnover ratio, risen to a level which sees us making losses.

That said its worth pointing out how successful the period of 2005-2007 was, relatively speaking, for Hibs. During that period we managed back to back top four finishes for the first time since the Turnbull era. We also made it to the semi-finals of the Scottish in three successive seasons, a feat not managed since the 1880's would you believe. We did manage three in a row once in the 20th century but those appearances were split by the war. (the 2nd one :wink:). We won the league cup in 07 and this was also preceded by two QF places in 05 and 06. We also managed the final in 04. We have reached, at least, the QF stage of this competition three times in a row twice before (we made it to four in a row actually) in the late eighties, prior to the Mercer takeover bid, and in the early seventies.

To put that into perspective Hibs reached at least the QF's of both competitions three years running, which no other Hibs team had done, and got two top four finishes (three top six) for the first time since the early seventies. There was also the added reward of (short) sojourn's into Europe three times in a row, again for the first time since the seventies. Success makes money, of that there is no doubt, but then other clubs covet your players and offer them wages way out of our reach.

If you compare season end 2011 to season end 2001 I believe we are in, overall, a better place. Income was higher in 2001 (£500k), mainly due to a run to SC Final, but so were wages paid (900k). Our debt was higher in 2001 by £2.8m and our league position was better (3rd) while our attendances were, on average, 11673 in 2011 and 10793 in 2001. That part will change this season. We have also completed the stadium and acquired our own training facilities which not everybody is in favour of, but they are done now.

Ten years earlier we finished 9th in the league, reached the 4th round of the Scottish and the 3rd in the LC. We were also in the throws of a takeover battle between Farmer on one side and Mercer/Rowland on the other. Hibs were bust. Average attendance was 9257.

Ten years prior to that (80-81) we were in the first division, relegated for the first time in our history, and we reached the QF stage of both SC and the LC. Average attendance this season was 4460

Ten years prior again (70-71) we finished 12th in the old first division and reached the SF of the SC and the QF stage of the LC. Average attendance in 70-71 was 10,541.

We, of course, were about to appoint Edward Hunter Turnbull at the start of season 71-72 and his side would set the benchmark for those that followed. For those of us not old enough to remember The Five that is!

In the last twenty years it is also worth noting that that a number of clubs have actually went, or on the brink of going, bust. Among these were big clubs like Hibs, Celtic, Motherwell, St.Mirren and Dundee. We also saw Livingston overstretch themselves and we lost Gretna, Airdrie and Clydebank (now in the juniors) altogether. Airdrie reformed and I would treat Gretna as being different as they were a rich man's plaything and, like many others, he wasn't rich enough and he made promises his pockets couldn't match. Other prominent clubs have refused to overspend and gone backwards. Presently we have a number of clubs hovering on the brink which includes two of the biggest in the land, Rangers and Hearts.

Could things be better? Undoubtedly so. Have mistakes been made? Lots of them. Will I stop being a Hibby? Not a chance!

Things could be much worse. GGTTH

IWasThere2016
02-01-2012, 10:24 AM
The 11-12 accounts will be a train wreck and it's hardly an act of great insight to state that. The loss last season was the first in seven seasons and this one will be worse but Farmer has shown he will financially support the club if and when it becomes neccessary which means we are in a very fortunate position. And again you are taking a loss and using it as a stick to beat the board with and, although you have stated that you are not interested in what happens elsewhere, it is stated on this thread that the top SPL clubs have lost, overall, about £250m over the last ten years. Yet the fact Hibs have bucked this trend is despite the board and not because of it.

The point is we should never have got where we are. A point clearly lost on you.

The Mowbray/CIS era should not have been the peak before the plummet we are on. However, since we have been sliding ever since, one would hope that whatever the Board was doing to stop this would have been more obvious and paying dividend.

Nearly 5 years on and you are finally admitting to a 'train wreck' in 11/12. Thanks for the endorsement of the obvious.

Please tell me when you think the insightful RP et al will have the sunshine back on Leith, and we won't be needing further millions from STF?

The Falcon
02-01-2012, 10:57 AM
The point is we should never have got where we are. A point clearly lost on you.

The Mowbray/CIS era should not have been the peak before the plummet we are on. However, since we have been sliding ever since, one would hope that whatever the Board was doing to stop this would have been more obvious and paying dividend.

Nearly 5 years on and you are finally admitting to a 'train wreck' in 11/12. Thanks for the endorsement of the obvious.

Please tell me when you think the insightful RP et al will have the sunshine back on Leith, and we won't be needing further millions from STF?


The only way we could have stopped the decline was to hold on to, and pay accordingly, the players that we had. That is the vital part in all of this and we could not afford to. If you are suggesting that the quality of players that emerged during that period should be emulated every year then, while that would be fantastic, you are being wholly unrealistic. If making money, and bringing success, at a Scottish football club is as easy to achieve, and maintain, as you are alluding to I would suggest, as before, you fire your CV off to all SPL clubs. You will make a fortune.

A "train wreck" could be applied to ALL of the top clubs finances, but you are not interested in that. If Hibs were the only "train wreck" then you would have a valid point but Hibs are not and you dont.

Beefster
02-01-2012, 03:44 PM
We dont know that they are not trying, we do know they are, like everybody else, not succeeding. If everybody else was increasing their revenue and profitability and we weren't I would be very concerned.

The recent Club Membership scheme that was launched looked a decent initiative but there were then folks who had bought ST's moaning about the discounts offered. Chasing corporate funds is a difficult gig and will be for the next few seasons I would expect, so the Club scheme was an attempt to get supporters in and as such should be seen as a positive.

In their defence, the Membership is the best initiative that they've tried in years, even if they are way behind the curve on it - much better than all this 'Family' or 'All For One' nonsense.

In the main though, their ideas to get more people attending are woeful.

IWasThere2016
02-01-2012, 04:25 PM
The only way we could have stopped the decline was to hold on to, and pay accordingly, the players that we had. That is the vital part in all of this and we could not afford to. If you are suggesting that the quality of players that emerged during that period should be emulated every year then, while that would be fantastic, you are being wholly unrealistic. If making money, and bringing success, at a Scottish football club is as easy to achieve, and maintain, as you are alluding to I would suggest, as before, you fire your CV off to all SPL clubs. You will make a fortune.

A "train wreck" could be applied to ALL of the top clubs finances, but you are not interested in that. If Hibs were the only "train wreck" then you would have a valid point but Hibs are not and you dont.

Oh dear .. how much did GOC, Riordan, KT, Broon, Murphy, Jones, Fletch, Whitty etc cost? They appeared over a number of years :wink: Without looking I'd say 2003/04 to 2007/08 perhaps.

I am not interested in the others - I keep telling you that, and you keep ignoring that for some reason., and I earn more doing what I do than I could at Hibs thanks

PS - you didn't answer my question :wink:

The Falcon
02-01-2012, 05:59 PM
Oh dear .. how much did GOC, Riordan, KT, Broon, Murphy, Jones, Fletch, Whitty etc cost?

I am not interested in the others - I keep telling you that, and you keep ignoring that for some reason., and I earn more doing what I do than I could at Hibs thanks

PS - you didn't answer my question :wink:

Oh Dear indeed.

Instead of bumming about how much money you make perhaps you should take over and show STF and all the other owners, although you are not interested in them, right :wink:, how its done.

You would but you're not interested, we know :rotflmao:

IWasThere2016
02-01-2012, 06:08 PM
Oh Dear indeed.

Instead of bumming about how much money you make perhaps you should take over and show STF and all the other owners, although you are not interested in them, right :wink:, how its done.

You would but you're not interested, we know :rotflmao:

Its a fact :wink: and my question is clearly still beyond you :greengrin

The Falcon
02-01-2012, 06:14 PM
Its a fact :wink: and my question is clearly still beyond you :greengrin


Whats a fact? You are saying the club should be able to produce players of the quality you mentioned every single season, and if they don't its Rods fault?

Ray_
02-01-2012, 06:17 PM
Oh Dear indeed.

Instead of bumming about how much money you make perhaps you should take over and show STF and all the other owners, although you are not interested in them, right :wink:, how its done.

You would but you're not interested, we know :rotflmao:

Back to this nonsense are you? Well I suppose you have to say something, no matter how stupid it may be, when trying to make a case against overwhelming evidence & before you ask, league position & results, crowds, financial mess, estranged support & garbage being passed as supposed entertainment.

Kaiser1962
02-01-2012, 06:22 PM
not getting involved. :na na:

IWasThere2016
02-01-2012, 07:02 PM
Whats a fact? You are saying the club should be able to produce players of the quality you mentioned every single season, and if they don't its Rods fault?

:faf: Read the posts and work it oot. Yer miles away at present.

IWasThere2016
02-01-2012, 07:07 PM
Back to this nonsense are you? Well I suppose you have to say something, no matter how stupid it may be, when trying to make a case against overwhelming evidence & before you ask, league position & results, crowds, financial mess, estranged support & garbage being passed as supposed entertainment.

:greengrin

IWasThere2016
02-01-2012, 07:09 PM
:faf: Read the posts and work it oot. Yer miles away at present.

Better narrow it doon for ye - last two posts :wink: