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Hibby Bairn
27-12-2011, 04:33 PM
Usually ignore the Fletcher threads but it is getting ridiculous.

Scores again today at Arsenal. Has also scored this year at Man Utd and Liverpool. 6 goals from 12 starts in 2011/12.

But only has 8 caps for Scotland and just 4 starts.

Pathetic really.

Saorsa
27-12-2011, 04:38 PM
Usually ignore the Fletcher threads but it is getting ridiculous.

Scores again today at Arsenal. Has also scored this year at Man Utd and Liverpool. 6 goals from 12 starts in 2011/12.

But only has 8 caps for Scotland and just 4 starts.

Pathetic really.and sadly unlikely tae change with the walloper that is currently in charge of the team.

Hibbyradge
27-12-2011, 04:40 PM
Usually ignore the Fletcher threads but it is getting ridiculous.

Scores again today at Arsenal. Has also scored this year at Man Utd and Liverpool. 6 goals from 12 starts in 2011/12.

But only has 8 caps for Scotland and just 4 starts.

Pathetic really.

Is it on TV?

SteveHFC
27-12-2011, 04:43 PM
Levein would rather play Forrest and Mackie ahead of him.

If he was playing for England or Northern Ireland or Wales. He would be in any of their squads.

3pm
27-12-2011, 04:44 PM
Is he worth £15m yet?!

Hibby Bairn
27-12-2011, 04:46 PM
Is it on TV?

No. Internet only. :agree:

£15m. Not sure. Can't be far away tbh. Everton could do worse.

bingo70
27-12-2011, 04:48 PM
Lets not forget they've both got to take their share of the blame, i can not stand Levein but he wants to get a squad of players that are desperate to play for the national team to generate a club like mentality, that said i can understand Fletchers reasons for asking not to be selected for whatever games it was.

What is a nonsense though is that neither of them have the balls to pick up the phone, arrange a meeting and sort it out, they're both like a couple of teenage girls that have had an argument and rather than sort it out they've let it grow into something far bigger than it needed to be.

couple o' big bairns

NORTHERNHIBBY
27-12-2011, 04:51 PM
So Fudgeson and the Hunkeeper have to be grovelled to in an attempt to get them back into the team, but Fletcher stays in the cold. Levein has made this personal.

Seveno
27-12-2011, 04:54 PM
Lets not forget they've both got to take their share of the blame, i can not stand Levein but he wants to get a squad of players that are desperate to play for the national team to generate a club like mentality, that said i can understand Fletchers reasons for asking not to be selected for whatever games it was.

What is a nonsense though is that neither of them have the balls to pick up the phone, arrange a meeting and sort it out, they're both like a couple of teenage girls that have had an argument and rather than sort it out they've let it grow into something far bigger than it needed to be.

couple o' big bairns

I'd rather we had the mentality of a national team. Particularly as our club record in Europe is so woeful.

greenlex
27-12-2011, 04:56 PM
Today's goal described as a Hunt shot that went in off Fletcher.:greengrin
Leviens got it right.:wink:

Saorsa
27-12-2011, 04:56 PM
So Fudgeson and the Hunkeeper have to be grovelled to in an attempt to get them back into the team, but Fletcher stays in the cold. Levein has made this personal.Correct, it was pathetic they way he went begging tae get them back.

bingo70
27-12-2011, 05:02 PM
So Fudgeson and the Hunkeeper have to be grovelled to in an attempt to get them back into the team, but Fletcher stays in the cold. Levein has made this personal.

Don't disagree with you at all, it appears he was happy to drop his knickers for huns who fancied a game but not Fletcher, i pressume his argument will be that it was because they had problems with the previous regime and not him, still agree thats wrong though as you don't get to pick and choose your manager at national level.

I still think that one of them should be man enough to pick up the phone and sort it out face to face and if Levein doesn't have the balls to do it then Fletch should.

I think if he doesn't he'll retire with a pile of regrets once he grows up and realises what he's missed out on by being too stubborn.

Although the ideal solution would be for that jambo welt to just do one and get away from the national team asap

Saorsa
27-12-2011, 05:06 PM
the ideal solution would be for that jambo welt to just do one and get away from the national team asapBingo :top marks

heretoday
27-12-2011, 05:25 PM
I reckon Fletcher would be a good fit for Everton who badly need a striker.

Moulin Yarns
27-12-2011, 05:31 PM
Lets not forget they've both got to take their share of the blame, i can not stand Levein but he wants to get a squad of players that are desperate to play for the national team to generate a club like mentality, that said i can understand Fletchers reasons for asking not to be selected for whatever games it was.

What is a nonsense though is that neither of them have the balls to pick up the phone, arrange a meeting and sort it out, they're both like a couple of teenage girls that have had an argument and rather than sort it out they've let it grow into something far bigger than it needed to be.

couple o' big bairns

It can surely be sorted out because our national manager must take in EPL games that involve Wolves occassionally, or is that too simple??

PISTOL1875
27-12-2011, 05:39 PM
Why are we debating this YET AGAIN ?????

The facts are as follows..

Steven Fletcher told the Scotland set-up he didn't want to be considered for selection , so until Fletcher informs Levein that he wishes to be considered for selection again , he wont be picked.

Its quite simply actually. SF must contact CL , tell him he wishes to play for Scotland again and then we will be considered....

Why do we waste pages upon pages about how much of a fud CL is when the ball is in Fletcher's court ?? It isn't CL's fault that SF took the huff...

tamig
27-12-2011, 05:49 PM
Why are we debating this YET AGAIN ?????

The facts are as follows..

Steven Fletcher told the Scotland set-up he didn't want to be considered for selection , so until Fletcher informs Levein that he wishes to be considered for selection again , he wont be picked.

Its quite simply actually. SF must contact CL , tell him he wishes to play for Scotland again and then we will be considered....

Why do we waste pages upon pages about how much of a fud CL is when the ball is in Fletcher's court ?? It isn't CL's fault that SF took the huff...

How do you know this? It doesn't tie in with what Fletcher's agent has said many times. apparently it was one specific game he asked not to be considered for.

PISTOL1875
27-12-2011, 05:54 PM
How do you know this? It doesn't tie in with what Fletcher's agent has said many times. apparently it was one specific game he asked not to be considered for.

One specific game too many in my eyes... Look at Stokes with Ireland... Asked for a break so wasnt called up and since then he hasn't been quoted for Ireland..

The facts are , you are either want to play for your country or you don't.. SF has obviously showed by his attitude he doesn't. I don't blame CL in the slightest...

Barney McGrew
27-12-2011, 06:00 PM
I reckon Fletcher would be a good fit for Everton who badly need a striker.

The question is, would the boyhood Liverpool fan go to Goodison?

If he keeps scoring at the rate he is, it wouldn't surprise me one bit if Dalglish was interested in him.

tamig
27-12-2011, 06:01 PM
One specific game too many in my eyes... Look at Stokes with Ireland... Asked for a break so wasnt called up and since then he hasn't been quoted for Ireland..

The facts are , you are either want to play for your country or you don't.. SF has obviously showed by his attitude he doesn't. I don't blame CL in the slightest...

fair dos, but I don't suppose you know the reason behind why he asked not to be picked for that game? Neither do I as it happens but I don't think you can go pointing the finger at Fletch unless we know the full story.

Levein has proved himself to be a hypocrite of the highest order though during his tenure to date.

clerriehibs
27-12-2011, 06:05 PM
Why are we debating this YET AGAIN ?????

The facts are as follows..

Steven Fletcher told the Scotland set-up he didn't want to be considered for selection , so until Fletcher informs Levein that he wishes to be considered for selection again , he wont be picked.

Its quite simply actually. SF must contact CL , tell him he wishes to play for Scotland again and then we will be considered....

Why do we waste pages upon pages about how much of a fud CL is when the ball is in Fletcher's court ?? It isn't CL's fault that SF took the huff...

You've truncated your facts - according to SF (who has always come across as a much more reasonable, level headed, and honest person than the violent, lying, hypocritical trumpet in charge of Scotland team affairs), he asked not to be considered for the next game.

PISTOL1875
27-12-2011, 06:09 PM
fair dos, but I don't suppose you know the reason behind why he asked not to be picked for that game? Neither do I as it happens but I don't think you can go pointing the finger at Fletch unless we know the full story.

Levein has proved himself to be a hypocrite of the highest order though during his tenure to date.

I dont give a flying one about Levein to be honest.. He isn't the one who people are wanting back in the Scotland set-up is it ??

Fletcher asked not to be considered for selection and until he speaks to the manager and retracts that statement then he never will be considered again while CL is in charge...

You can have a pop at CL all you want and call him all the names there is to call him but the ball is well and truly is in SF's court.. He has too make the first move on this one...

ancienthibby
27-12-2011, 06:10 PM
Why are we debating this YET AGAIN ?????

The facts are as follows..

Steven Fletcher told the Scotland set-up he didn't want to be considered for selection , so until Fletcher informs Levein that he wishes to be considered for selection again , he wont be picked.

Its quite simply actually. SF must contact CL , tell him he wishes to play for Scotland again and then we will be considered....

Why do we waste pages upon pages about how much of a fud CL is when the ball is in Fletcher's court ?? It isn't CL's fault that SF took the huff...


Er, I don't think so!

The job of a manager is not to mis-manage, nor to non-manage!

The latter point is one which can be made full square against HP.

There's a new year coming up - lets hope Mr 1-4-6 get's a humility sense of mind - that obligation is HIS , not Fletch's!!

Onceinawhile
27-12-2011, 06:10 PM
Why are we debating this YET AGAIN ?????

The facts are as follows..

Steven Fletcher told the Scotland set-up he didn't want to be considered for selection , so until Fletcher informs Levein that he wishes to be considered for selection again , he wont be picked.

Its quite simply actually. SF must contact CL , tell him he wishes to play for Scotland again and then we will be considered....

Why do we waste pages upon pages about how much of a fud CL is when the ball is in Fletcher's court ?? It isn't CL's fault that SF took the huff...

I assume peter houston won't be assistant manager going forward either then? After all he asked not to go to Cyprus..

BEEJ
27-12-2011, 06:12 PM
Why do we waste pages upon pages about how much of a fud CL is when the ball is in Fletcher's court ?? It isn't CL's fault that SF took the huff...
It's CL's fault for playing that 4-6-0 formation against the Czechs - nae forwards required!. It's CL's fault for selecting any UK striker whose Grandad once holidayed in Berwick upon Tweed ahead of recognised alternatives.

SF clearly had a problem with Levein's attitude and tactical approach and felt that he was wasting his time turning up for these international gatherings. If you don't have respect for the Manager then its best you stay away.

But what we have now, in a situation where Scotland desperately need a striker of Fletcher's quality, is a stand-off. Each of these men is too proud to be seen to be the first to give in to the other.

We can't afford to be in this position. Ultimately this situation is down to poor man-management by CL.

PISTOL1875
27-12-2011, 06:16 PM
It's CL's fault for playing that 4-6-0 formation against the Czechs - nae forwards required!. It's CL's fault for selecting any UK striker whose Grandad once holidayed in Berwick upon Tweed ahead of recognised alternatives.

SF clearly had a problem with Levein's attitude and tactical approach and felt that he was wasting his time turning up for these international gatherings. If you don't have respect for the Manager then its best you stay away.

But what we have now, in a situation where Scotland desperately need a striker of Fletcher's quality, is a stand-off. Each of these men is too proud to be seen to be the first to give in to the other.

We can't afford to be in this position. Ultimately this situation is down to poor man-management by CL.

The question then is why should CL be the one to give in ?? He isn't the one who took the cream puff is he ???

As you post , SF is the one who clearly has the problem.. Not Criag Levein..........

3pm
27-12-2011, 06:18 PM
So how much is he worth?!

Barney McGrew
27-12-2011, 06:28 PM
The question then is why should CL be the one to give in ??

Because he's the manager, and it's his responsibility to get the best team possible on the pitch for Scotland. Clearly right now Fletch should be in that team.

He needs to be the bigger man for the sake of the national team, not the spoilt petulant kid who sooks up to some players who said they didn't want to be considered for selection and leaves others out in the cold.

PISTOL1875
27-12-2011, 06:32 PM
Because he's the manager, and it's his responsibility to get the best team possible on the pitch for Scotland. Clearly right now Fletch should be in that team.

He needs to be the bigger man for the sake of the national team, not the spoilt petulant kid who sooks up to some players who said they didn't want to be considered for selection and leaves others out in the cold.

Yeh and Fletcher is the player and its his greatest honour to play for his country and he decided against being picked because he didn't agree with the managers tactics or what ever reason he chose..

Can you imagine if all the players that play international decided not to be considered fro selection because they didn't agree with the manager and his tactics ???

Barney McGrew
27-12-2011, 06:35 PM
Yeh and Fletcher is the player and its his greatest honour to play for his country and he decided against being picked because he didn't agree with the managers tactics or what ever reason he chose..

In exactly the same way as Ferguson and McGregor did, but Potter was only too quick to flash his knickers at them to try and change their minds.

Winston Ingram
27-12-2011, 06:36 PM
I reckon Fletcher would be a good fit for Everton who badly need a striker.

What are they going to buy him with?

killie-hibby
27-12-2011, 06:40 PM
Why are we debating this YET AGAIN ?????

The facts are as follows..

Steven Fletcher told the Scotland set-up he didn't want to be considered for selection , so until Fletcher informs Levein that he wishes to be considered for selection again , he wont be picked.

Its quite simply actually. SF must contact CL , tell him he wishes to play for Scotland again and then we will be considered....

Why do we waste pages upon pages about how much of a fud CL is when the ball is in Fletcher's court ?? It isn't CL's fault that SF took the huff...




Only the sender and recipient of the text are aware of what is factual. Did Fletcher state he did not want to be considered for a particular international or all future internationals. The difference is significant. The fact I am aware of, is that as Scotlands manager, Levein is responsible for selecting the best players available. Therefore he should, as with Ferguson and Mcgregor, get on his knees again and beg Fletcher to play for Scotland. The alternative is for him to publish the contents of the text,thus revealing whether Fletcher or Levein is the huffy person.
The ball is in Leveins court, not Fletchers

PISTOL1875
27-12-2011, 06:41 PM
In exactly the same way as Ferguson and McGregor did, but Potter was only too quick to flash his knickers at them to try and change their minds.

They decided not to play for Scotland while Burley was in charge... Potter had nothing to do with there exile...

The same thing will happen with Fletcher if Potter was to leave the Scotland job in the future.... If SF is still not playing then the new manager will come in consider him...

EasterRoad4Ever
27-12-2011, 06:43 PM
Usually ignore the Fletcher threads but it is getting ridiculous.

Scores again today at Arsenal. Has also scored this year at Man Utd and Liverpool. 6 goals from 12 starts in 2011/12.

But only has 8 caps for Scotland and just 4 starts.

Pathetic really.

Playing at a higher level than ANY of the other numpties we have in the Scotland team, yet ignored by the childish Scotland manager. When Fletch gets the big move to a top 10 EPL club, HP will look even more stupid than he does right now.

I'm delighted for Fletch - keep it up son.

ancienthibby
27-12-2011, 06:44 PM
Only the sender and recipient of the text are aware of what is factual. Did Fletcher state he did not want to be considered for a particular international or all future internationals. The difference is significant. The fact I am aware of, is that as Scotlands manager, Levein is responsible for selecting the best players available. Therefore he should, as with Ferguson and Mcgregor, get on his knees again and beg Fletcher to play for Scotland. The alternative is for him ters
o publish the contents of the text,thus revealing whether Fletcher or Levein is the huffy person.
The ball is in Leveins court, not Fletch

Every one should understand that.

Barney McGrew
27-12-2011, 06:45 PM
"Was it a difficult decision to wipe the slate clean? No, not at all," Levein said. "Barry Ferguson has played some fantastic matches for Scotland. He is a top player who is currently plying his trade in the Premiership in England with Birmingham and we don't have many of those"

"Kris Boyd is a top goalscorer who is closing in on the top goalscorer ever in the Scottish Premier League and Allan McGregor is a fantastic goalkeeper"

"Why would I shoot myself in the foot and rule out three top players?"

ancienthibby
27-12-2011, 06:49 PM
"Was it a difficult decision to wipe the slate clean? No, not at all," Levein said. "Barry Ferguson has played some fantastic matches for Scotland. He is a top player who is currently plying his trade in the Premiership in England with Birmingham and we don't have many of those"

"Kris Boyd is a top goalscorer who is closing in on the top goalscorer ever in the Scottish Premier League and Allan McGregor is a fantastic goalkeeper"

"Why would I shoot myself in the foot and rule out three top players?"




Because, HP, you are a complete and utter tube??!!

frazeHFC
27-12-2011, 06:50 PM
The question is, would the boyhood Liverpool fan go to Goodison?

If he keeps scoring at the rate he is, it wouldn't surprise me one bit if Dalglish was interested in him.

This is my thoughts too. Carroll is pretty poor and Liverpool have struggled with goals. They will be without Suarez for nearly 2 months so i reckon Dalglish could go for Fletch. :agree:

Sir David Gray
27-12-2011, 06:55 PM
I assume peter houston won't be assistant manager going forward either then? After all he asked not to go to Cyprus..

This is the argument I would make as well.

Houston (quite rightly, to be honest) stated that he wouldn't be going to Cyprus for a friendly match so that he could stay with Dundee Utd at a crucial time.

Fletcher stated that he didn't wish to play in one friendly match and he has been overlooked ever since.

I don't see the difference between Peter Houston's situation and Steven Fletcher.

He has to be in the next Scotland squad.

tamig
27-12-2011, 06:57 PM
Yeh and Fletcher is the player and its his greatest honour to play for his country and he decided against being picked because he didn't agree with the managers tactics or what ever reason he chose..

Can you imagine if all the players that play international decided not to be considered fro selection because they didn't agree with the manager and his tactics ???

If a manager has an issue with one of his charges it's up to the manager to manage the issue.

As I said before, I suspect you don't know the full story in this case but you go shooting off if you want.

Levein is a tube. No doubt about it.

hibee81
27-12-2011, 07:00 PM
Fletcher asked not to be considered for Scotlands meaninless friendlies as his team were in a relegation dog fight and he wanted to stay fit to help, he may have gone about it the wrong way but to me its his club side that pays his wages. Alex Ferguson asks for Darren Fletcher to be left out of these games as he was a important player in man u's champions league plans and thats ok.
At the end of the day fletcher is at this moment in time Scotlands best out and out striker and the national team could be doing with him, levein is a fud of highest order and is showing that he has no balls by not going and trying to get the best option we have available at the moment.
All IMO of course.

The Modfather
27-12-2011, 07:02 PM
I went to said game in Dublin Fletch made himself unavailable for. I was gutted on the night as always good to see one of our own playing for Scotland, when he scored the winner against Iceland it was all the better as it was an ex Hibee scoring.

That being said, why should I as a fan pay my money to travel all over to watch ny national team, only for players to pull out. If Man U had an important game the following weekend, I honestly couldn't see Darren Fletcher pulling out. He would play them both. I lost a lot of respect for Fletch that night. Which is difficult as I still love seeing him do well in the Premiership.

I'm still a big Hibee, but for me personally it is country before club. To me, this is an example of a big problem with the national team. Too many players don't see a cap as the greatest honour in football. Getting a move (unfortunately to the Old Firm in most cases) is the pinnacle of most players ambitions.

Sadly, I think i'm from a different age, but to turn down a cap is alien to me.

PISTOL1875
27-12-2011, 07:02 PM
If a manager has an issue with one of his charges it's up to the manager to manage the issue.

As I said before, I suspect you don't know the full story in this case but you go shooting off if you want.

Levein is a tube. No doubt about it.

You're right I don't know th e full story.. I only know what I have and read and listened to..

The facts are Fletcher didnt want to be considered for a certain game but will be available for the next game because it suits..

CL has binned him and its up to SF to say that he wants to picked again for Scotland...

End Off....

Barney McGrew
27-12-2011, 07:07 PM
You're right I don't know th e full story.. I only know what I have and read and listened to..

The facts are Fletcher didnt want to be considered for a certain game but will be available for the next game because it suits..

CL has binned him and its up to SF to say that he wants to picked again for Scotland...

End Off....

Fletch has done already. It's Potter's huff that means he's not in the squad.

Levein says Fletcher must make first contact if he wants to return to the international fold but Fletcher does not believe he turned his back on the country in the first place.
He told the Sunday Mail: 'Everyone wants to play for the country, and I do want to play for Scotland, but I feel like it's out of my hands. People say it's in my hands but I don't believe it is.

'I've read him saying I have to make myself available for selection again but I feel I never made myself unavailable.
'Will I make the call? I just feel as though I'd be made to look like an absolute ****, know what I mean?

'Even that doesn't bother me all that much because I want to go and play for my country but it just makes it look one way when it was another. I don't want people saying I turned my back on my country because I didn't.'

PISTOL1875
27-12-2011, 07:12 PM
Fletch has done already. It's Potter's huff that means he's not in the squad.

Levein says Fletcher must make first contact if he wants to return to the international fold but Fletcher does not believe he turned his back on the country in the first place.
He told the Sunday Mail: 'Everyone wants to play for the country, and I do want to play for Scotland, but I feel like it's out of my hands. People say it's in my hands but I don't believe it is.

'I've read him saying I have to make myself available for selection again but I feel I never made myself unavailable.
'Will I make the call? I just feel as though I'd be made to look like an absolute ****, know what I mean?

'Even that doesn't bother me all that much because I want to go and play for my country but it just makes it look one way when it was another. I don't want people saying I turned my back on my country because I didn't.'


Well incase I am missing something , wasn't it SF who didn't want to be involved in a particular game ??

How is it not then in his hands to say that he would like to be involved again ???

PISTOL1875
27-12-2011, 07:29 PM
This is the argument I would make as well.

Houston (quite rightly, to be honest) stated that he wouldn't be going to Cyprus for a friendly match so that he could stay with Dundee Utd at a crucial time.

Fletcher stated that he didn't wish to play in one friendly match and he has been overlooked ever since.

I don't see the difference between Peter Houston's situation and Steven Fletcher.

He has to be in the next Scotland squad.

Don't you think PH spoke to CL about it rather sending one of the staff a text message ??

skipster7
27-12-2011, 07:31 PM
Well incase I am missing something , wasn't it SF who didn't want to be involved in a particular game ??

How is it not then in his hands to say that he would like to be involved again ???

what part of ONE game aren't you grasping ???:confused:
i phoned my wife to tell her not to make me my tea tonight, does that mean i need to phone her tomorrow to tell her id like to be considered for tea ??:greengrin

KeithTheHibby
27-12-2011, 07:31 PM
Why are we debating this YET AGAIN ?????

The facts are as follows..

Steven Fletcher told the Scotland set-up he didn't want to be considered for selection , so until Fletcher informs Levein that he wishes to be considered for selection again , he wont be picked.

Its quite simply actually. SF must contact CL , tell him he wishes to play for Scotland again and then we will be considered....

Why do we waste pages upon pages about how much of a fud CL is when the ball is in Fletcher's court ?? It isn't CL's fault that SF took the huff...

Not debating what you are saying but is this not similiar to Ferguson, McGregor and McCulloch to a lesser extend?

Crab apple
27-12-2011, 07:49 PM
Er, I don't think so!

The job of a manager is not to mis-manage, nor to non-manage!

The latter point is one which can be made full square against HP.

There's a new year coming up - lets hope Mr 1-4-6 get's a humility sense of mind - that obligation is HIS , not Fletch's!!


Having met Mr Levein on a couple of occassions I can confirm that humility is not amongst his strong points.

lapsedhibee
27-12-2011, 07:51 PM
You can have a pop at CL all you want and call him all the names there is to call him

Thanks. I choose "asbestos-ridden scarf-twirling paedo".

thebakerboy
27-12-2011, 07:57 PM
Saw in the paper a couple of weeks ago that Levein was going to see Wolves to see how the Scots are playing (Berra is also there) and at the same time Mick McCarthy was saying he thought Fletch should be in Scotland squad so lets hope he got them sat down in a quiet corner and banged there heads together.

Saorsa
27-12-2011, 07:59 PM
Saw in the paper a couple of weeks ago that Levein was going to see Wolves to see how the Scots are playing (Berra is also there) and at the same time Mick McCarthy was saying he thought Fletch should be in Scotland squad so lets hope he got them sat down in a quiet corner and banged there heads together.Or banged Potter's heid through the wall, equally acceptable.

Beefster
27-12-2011, 08:04 PM
How do you know this? It doesn't tie in with what Fletcher's agent has said many times. apparently it was one specific game he asked not to be considered for.


You've truncated your facts - according to SF (who has always come across as a much more reasonable, level headed, and honest person than the violent, lying, hypocritical trumpet in charge of Scotland team affairs), he asked not to be considered for the next game.

If an important Hibs player asked to miss a single game for a trivial reason (ie he couldn't be arsed), he'd be crucified on here.

greenlex
27-12-2011, 08:27 PM
If an important Hibs player asked to miss a single game for a trivial reason (ie he couldn't be arsed), he'd be crucified on here.
I don't think asking to miss a friendly to help his employers avoid relegation is either trivial on not being ersed. The friendly in the context was trivial and as a player Fletcher was hardly important to it.
i reckon somewhere in between lies the reasons and truth of how it was relayed. Anyhoo. Levine is the senior man in this case and should at he very least talk to Fletcher. If he doesn't he snt doing his job properly. If Fletcher doesn't want to pay then that's his business. Levein is being a tube in this situation and by talking to Fletcher instead of being in a Huff with him and a dick to boot could actually turn the spotlight on the player instead of this nonsense.

PISTOL1875
27-12-2011, 09:07 PM
Not debating what you are saying but is this not similiar to Ferguson, McGregor and McCulloch to a lesser extend?

Yes but the whole incident with these 3 weren't on CL's watch were they ?? They happened when Burley was in charge.. What happened when Burley was the boss has nothing to do with Craig Levein,,,,,,,,

Sir David Gray
27-12-2011, 09:23 PM
If an important Hibs player asked to miss a single game for a trivial reason (ie he couldn't be arsed), he'd be crucified on here.

Massive difference.

Wolves were/are Fletcher's employer and his loyalties, first and foremost, should be with them. The Scotland game in question was a friendly, so I really don't see the problem.

There's no direct comparison with a Hibs player missing a game, although if he missed a pre-season friendly because of a family wedding (for argument's sake), I don't think too many people would complain.

tamig
27-12-2011, 09:26 PM
Massive difference.

Wolves were/are Fletcher's employer and his loyalties, first and foremost, should be with them. The Scotland game in question was a friendly, so I really don't see the problem.

There's no direct comparison with a Hibs player missing a game, although if he missed a pre-season friendly because of a family wedding (for argument's sake), I don't think too many people would complain.

Agree totally. Not really a reasonable comparison in this case.

500miles
27-12-2011, 09:38 PM
Fletcher is a professional football player. His employer is Wolves, and Scotland duty is , essentially, a hobby. It's not how he makes his living - it's an interest he participates in outwith his job.

Put it this way. Monday to Friday, 9-5, I'm an apprentice electrician. Friday nights, I am a Boys Brigade officer, and do my youth work. Furthermore, I can be away for up to a week at a time, with the Boys Brigade. For these trips, I have to take holidays, or sideline work.
If my work cannot afford me to be away at that time, or I consider that my work, at that time, is too important for me to take time out for my outside interest, my work has to come first.

Fletcher put his work first. Quite right.

leither17
27-12-2011, 09:42 PM
Fletcher is a professional football player. His employer is Wolves, and Scotland duty is , essentially, a hobby. It's not how he makes his living - it's an interest he participates in outwith his job.

Put it this way. Monday to Friday, 9-5, I'm an apprentice electrician. Friday nights, I am a Boys Brigade officer, and do my youth work. Furthermore, I can be away for up to a week at a time, with the Boys Brigade. For these trips, I have to take holidays, or sideline work.
If my work cannot afford me to be away at that time, or I consider that my work, at that time, is too important for me to take time out for my outside interest, my work has to come first.

Fletcher put his work first. Quite right.

:top marks

bob12345
27-12-2011, 10:22 PM
Daft as it sounds the SFA should have a code of conduct in place with international players which sets out the rules regarding call offs. Text messages are not really appropriate for something of this importance.

I doubt this exists and the grey area is there for all to see.

I disagree with people saying that the loyalty should be with the employer. 1. Playing for your national team should be the biggest honour and until our top players all treat it as so, we'll continue to struggle. All of the OF players pulling out of the Georgia game and playing a couple of days later still sticks in my throat. Friendly or not, you are either fit to play or injured.

2. A professional athlete should easily be able to cope with one extra game.

However Levein did say shortly after all of this that Fletcher wasn't playing for Wolves and wouldn't be selected until he was. Has anyone taken him to task on this?

clerriehibs
27-12-2011, 10:30 PM
They decided not to play for Scotland while Burley was in charge... Potter had nothing to do with there exile...

The same thing will happen with Fletcher if Potter was to leave the Scotland job in the future.... If SF is still not playing then the new manager will come in consider him...

Good point, caller ... thing is, what about your argument that it's Fletch's fault? How can the new manager (please god, may that be soon) pick him if, as you say, SF doesn't want to play? Although, despite what you seem to think about Fletch having to go cap in hand, ha already quite categorically said he is available for selection.

stokesmessiah
27-12-2011, 10:32 PM
Today's goal described as a Hunt shot that went in off Fletcher.:greengrin
Leviens got it right.:wink:


Just watching the highlights now and i would say that comment is harsh deflected shot from hunt which SF showed great awareness to divert into the net.

clerriehibs
27-12-2011, 10:33 PM
I went to said game in Dublin Fletch made himself unavailable for. I was gutted on the night as always good to see one of our own playing for Scotland, when he scored the winner against Iceland it was all the better as it was an ex Hibee scoring.

That being said, why should I as a fan pay my money to travel all over to watch ny national team, only for players to pull out. If Man U had an important game the following weekend, I honestly couldn't see Darren Fletcher pulling out. He would play them both. I lost a lot of respect for Fletch that night. Which is difficult as I still love seeing him do well in the Premiership.

I'm still a big Hibee, but for me personally it is country before club. To me, this is an example of a big problem with the national team. Too many players don't see a cap as the greatest honour in football. Getting a move (unfortunately to the Old Firm in most cases) is the pinnacle of most players ambitions.

Sadly, I think i'm from a different age, but to turn down a cap is alien to me.

You didn't get caps for friendlies, or even anything that wasn't a home international, in that age.

clerriehibs
27-12-2011, 10:35 PM
If an important Hibs player asked to miss a single game for a trivial reason (ie he couldn't be arsed), he'd be crucified on here.

Just make it up as you go along.

clerriehibs
27-12-2011, 10:40 PM
Yes but the whole incident with these 3 weren't on CL's watch were they ?? They happened when Burley was in charge.. What happened when Burley was the boss has nothing to do with Craig Levein,,,,,,,,


So, it seems in your view, a player can disrespect a previous Scotland manager, and that previous behaviour is ok when a new guy comes in because the slate gets wiped clean? Does that mean you think it's not respect for the Scotland team that's relevant, but respect for the manager?

BEEJ
27-12-2011, 10:58 PM
The question then is why should CL be the one to give in ?? He isn't the one who took the cream puff is he ???

As you post , SF is the one who clearly has the problem.. Not Criag Levein..........
I think you need to read my post again. They have both equally taken the 'cream puff'.

If CL thinks he can get through the next Scotland campaign without the services of S. Fletcher then it is, frankly, a big gamble. And if he proceeds down that course it will be because he's not willing to call SF on the phone to discuss the issue - unlike the way he fawned over McGregor and Ferguson to get them back in the squad.

Your undying support for CL in this episode is truly impressive! :wink:

PISTOL1875
27-12-2011, 11:00 PM
So, it seems in your view, a player can disrespect a previous Scotland manager, and that previous behaviour is ok when a new guy comes in because the slate gets wiped clean? Does that mean you think it's not respect for the Scotland team that's relevant, but respect for the manager?

If it was up to me the 3 huns could just do one and never be considered for the national team again. However , CL decided that the 3 were too valuable to leave out and wanted them too be involved...

PISTOL1875
27-12-2011, 11:04 PM
I think you need to read my post again. They have both equally taken the 'cream puff'.

If CL thinks he can get through the next Scotland campaign without the services of S. Fletcher then it is, frankly, a big gamble. And if he proceeds down that course it will be because he's not willing to call SF on the phone to discuss the issue - unlike the way he fawned over McGregor and Ferguson to get them back in the squad.

Your undying support for CL in this episode is truly impressive! :wink:

Yeh they have taken the cream puff. Both parties are deciding not to budge on this..

CL obviously thinks he can get throuht the next campaign , especially now after the emergance of Mackie , Rhodes and Maikail-Smith...

I support Levien..Wouldn't you agree that the most important person is the manager ??? Why should SF take the moral high-ground and get away with it ?? CL is the boss.. He calls the shots doesn't he ??

BEEJ
27-12-2011, 11:29 PM
Yeh they have taken the cream puff. Both parties are deciding not to budge on this..

CL obviously thinks he can get throuht the next campaign , especially now after the emergance of Mackie , Rhodes and Maikail-Smith...

I support Levien..Wouldn't you agree that the most important person is the manager ??? Why should SF take the moral high-ground and get away with it ?? CL is the boss.. He calls the shots doesn't he ??
I used to have a lot of time for CL despite his Jambo tendencies. I thought he was an accomplished Manager (without being brilliant) one who could spot good players from the lower leagues and mould them into a side. He could also usually communicate in a reasoned and thoughtful way through the media.

His spat against Mowbray before CL left to go south was the first real sign to me that CL had a childish streak. I'm afraid since he took over the Scotland post that aspect of his personality has come increasingly to the fore.

I don't have much confidence in him as our international Manager. I think he lacks maturity to be a truly effective man manager in a role where he has only got players to work with for relatively short bursts of time. He doesn't command respect.

Holmesdale Hibs
28-12-2011, 12:21 AM
I've been really surprised how well Fletcher has done in the premiership. Thought he was good with us but never thought he was good enough to play regularly in tithe EPL. He's proved me completely wrong. Good on him. All we need now is for Potter to stop acting like a cock and he can start scoring Scotland.

Nailrod
28-12-2011, 12:55 AM
Thanks. I choose "asbestos-ridden scarf-twirling paedo".

Not bad. I choose "Weasel-faced dobber".

jamesjamieson
28-12-2011, 12:58 AM
It's up to Levein to sort this one out. He comes across as an arrogant man so I don't expect him to eat humble pie and sort this one out.

Levein is the wrong man for the Scotland job - he is totally out of his depth. Having never won a thing as player or manager, he was not, and will never be, good enough to take Scotland into a Euro or World Cup finals. He just does not have the necessary strength of character.

Fletcher is currently the best striker Scotland have. The English Premiership is probably the best league in the world with the most expensive, highest-paid players. Fletcher is one of the top goalscorers there and a failing football nation like Scotland cannot ignore that.

The other strikers mentioned in this thread are doing okay at a lower level, e.g. Championship, SPL, English Division 1, but the step up to the EPL is massive. Even now Kris Boyd is, incredibly, thought of by the Glasgow media as a top Scottish striker with his goalscoring exploits in the SPL, but he did nothing at Championship level or anywhere else. Beggars cannot be choosers...

Nailrod
28-12-2011, 01:13 AM
The fact of the matter is that Scotland needs Fletcher.

Levein has a boss. It's the SFA. And if Fletcher is too proud to sort the thing out, and Levein is too infantile and hypocritical, then it's the SFA's responsibility.

They were happy enough to let the oily little scrote go @rsecreeping to the Old Firm duo who were banned for breaking a curfew, going on an all-night boozing session within days of a vital match, and - literally - shoving two fingers up to the whole of Scotland. In doing so they allowed him to overturn a ban that the SFA - not the former manager - had imposed on them. And that's an important point and an important difference. It was the SFA that banned Ferguson and McGregor, not Burley. And it's effectively Levein who has banned Fletcher, not the SFA.

It's time for Levein's line manager to pick up the phone and say to him "Look. For reasons that seemed valid to you, you wanted the OF **** back in the squad and we backed you. Now we want Fletcher back in the squad. You're the manager. Get it sorted."

And if Levein doesn't like that and wants to make it a resigning matter, all the better. I hope I never have to endure a more embarrassing moment than watching the scabby little turd-gobbler dancing round Hampden as if he had just won the European Championship when Scotland scored their 97th-minute winner against Liechtenstein.

Nailrod
28-12-2011, 01:15 AM
Not bad. I choose "Weasel-faced dobber".

Actually, it seems I may have chosen "oily little scrote" and "scabby little turd-gobbler".

Nailrod
28-12-2011, 01:46 AM
They decided not to play for Scotland while Burley was in charge... Potter had nothing to do with there exile...

The same thing will happen with Fletcher if Potter was to leave the Scotland job in the future.... If SF is still not playing then the new manager will come in consider him...

Ferguson and McGregor didn't "decide not to play for Scotland while Burley was in charge". They were banned for life from playing for Scotland. They were banned by the SFA, not by Burley. They were banned not for declaring themselves unavailable for a single match (God knows, is there a single OF player who hasn't done that over the years?), but for breaking a curfew, going on an all-night binge-drinking session within days of a vital game, and shoving two fingers up to the whole of Scotland in public.

Your argument might be a little less flimsy if your command of facts was a little stronger.

jgl07
28-12-2011, 01:54 AM
I reckon Fletcher would be a good fit for Everton who badly need a striker.

They wish!

Everton are skint.

Besides Moyes doesn't do strikers.

SteveHFC
28-12-2011, 02:07 AM
I reckon Fletcher would be a good fit for Everton who badly need a striker.

Aston Villa or Newcastle could be a good move for him. :aok:

Nailrod
28-12-2011, 02:54 AM
Aston Villa or Newcastle could be a good move for him. :aok:

Fletcher's next move will be critical. It's likely to make the difference between a player who can say he made it in the EPL, and one who went right to the top of the game. I would think Fletch and his agent will think about it very carefully indeed.

1two
28-12-2011, 07:17 AM
What's the criteria for playing in the olympic team?
I'm totally against a British OT but does anyone think this would be a good move for Fletch?

Beefster
28-12-2011, 07:42 AM
I don't think asking to miss a friendly to help his employers avoid relegation is either trivial on not being ersed. The friendly in the context was trivial and as a player Fletcher was hardly important to it.
i reckon somewhere in between lies the reasons and truth of how it was relayed. Anyhoo. Levine is the senior man in this case and should at he very least talk to Fletcher. If he doesn't he snt doing his job properly. If Fletcher doesn't want to pay then that's his business. Levein is being a tube in this situation and by talking to Fletcher instead of being in a Huff with him and a dick to boot could actually turn the spotlight on the player instead of this nonsense.


Massive difference.

Wolves were/are Fletcher's employer and his loyalties, first and foremost, should be with them. The Scotland game in question was a friendly, so I really don't see the problem.

There's no direct comparison with a Hibs player missing a game, although if he missed a pre-season friendly because of a family wedding (for argument's sake), I don't think too many people would complain.

Berra managed to not let Scotland down and keep Wolves up. What a guy, if it's such a difficult thing to do. Are we going to get into the situation where it's acceptable for anyone to pull out? "I need to help my team win the Champions League/SPL/PL/FA Cup/Scottish Cup/promotion or avoid relegation". If players only turned up when their teams had no chance of winning (or losing) things, we'd be even more ***** than we are.

If Scotland is just a hobby for most involved, I don't see why anyone gives a **** about the national team though.

Let's admit that we're a hypocritical bunch in the end though and that, if the manager was a Hibs legend and the player was an ex-Yam, we'd all be right behind the manager.

I'm not saying that Potter is not a tit either but this is a situation of Fletcher's making.

Nailrod
28-12-2011, 08:01 AM
Berra managed to not let Scotland down and keep Wolves up. What a guy, if it's such a difficult thing to do. Are we going to get into the situation where it's acceptable for anyone to pull out? "I need to help my team win the Champions League/SPL/PL/FA Cup/Scottish Cup/promotion or avoid relegation". If players only turned up when their teams had no chance of winning (or losing) things, we'd be even more ***** than we are.

If Scotland is just a hobby for most involved, I don't see why anyone gives a **** about the national team though.

Get real Beefster. We are already in that situation and always have been. Or perhaps you've never heard of an OF player pulling out with the full co-operation of his club and the whole hierarchy of the SFA? Rangers and Celtic cost Scotland a place in the Euro 2008 finals when they pulled the 'injured' Hutton and Brown from the Georgia game so they could play in the OF game the following week. Hutton and Brown were both bang in form and would have been our right side defense and midfield. Instead we had Alexander and a woefully unfit Darren Fletcher, who were ripped a new one by some 17-year old Georgian.


Let's admit that we're a hypocritical bunch in the end though and that, if the manager was a Hibs legend and the player was an ex-Yam, we'd all be right behind the manager.

I'm not saying that Potter is not a tit either but this is a situation of Fletcher's making.

Speak for yourself. I don't buy my views on what's good for Scotland off a shelf, or base them on tribal loyalties.

truehibernian
28-12-2011, 08:37 AM
Ferguson and McGregor didn't "decide not to play for Scotland while Burley was in charge". They were banned for life from playing for Scotland. They were banned by the SFA, not by Burley. They were banned not for declaring themselves unavailable for a single match (God knows, is there a single OF player who hasn't done that over the years?), but for breaking a curfew, going on an all-night binge-drinking session within days of a vital game, and shoving two fingers up to the whole of Scotland in public.

Your argument might be a little less flimsy if your command of facts was a little stronger.

That's only part of the story re breaking curfew. I was lucky enough to be in the company of someone who knows Pressley recently, and it was more than just Ferguson and McGregor who broke curfew.....they just happened to ignore the previous request, from Butcher, to all (various squad members) get to their beds....the story I heard was the players told Pressley to gtf when he told them to get to bed as he was annoyed they were drinking.....Butcher went down as a result of Pressley rightly being aggrieved, and he offered to buy them one more round, on him, as long as they went to bed (one of the lads type banter).....all other than BF and AM went to bed after that......allegedly.

Lucius Apuleius
28-12-2011, 08:42 AM
SFA send text to SF confirming selection. SF texts back and asks not to be considered. Presume SFA then text back confirming receipt. First thing that should then have happened was Pottery to phone Fletcher. Extremely bad man management. As a manager I do not expect an employee to come to me ad hoc after a problem. I would be phoning him and inviting him in for a chat. That is what is needed. A good man manager. Pottery is not one.

Nailrod
28-12-2011, 09:10 AM
That's only part of the story re breaking curfew. I was lucky enough to be in the company of someone who knows Pressley recently, and it was more than just Ferguson and McGregor who broke curfew.....they just happened to ignore the previous request, from Butcher, to all (various squad members) get to their beds....the story I heard was the players told Pressley to gtf when he told them to get to bed as he was annoyed they were drinking.....Butcher went down as a result of Pressley rightly being aggrieved, and he offered to buy them one more round, on him, as long as they went to bed (one of the lads type banter).....all other than BF and AM went to bed after that......allegedly.

Thanks for that. All of which makes Levein even more of a bald-arsed, meat-breathed hypocrite as well as an oily little scrote and a scabby little turd-gobbler.

truehibernian
28-12-2011, 09:26 AM
Thanks for that. All of which makes Levein even more of a bald-arsed, meat-breathed hypocrite as well as an oily little scrote and a scabby little turd-gobbler.

And here is another wee gem from him which highlights why we are where we are....when Barca played Hibs, Barca stayed in St Andrews. Without Guardiola's knowledge, some players phoned taxis late on at night, and asked the drivers to take them to get........sweets ! Yep, sweets.......they bought them by the shed load.....apparently Guardiola is an absolute stickler for fitness and diet, so some players hired local cabs to take them to garages to buy sweeties......Scottish players.....I think we know where their priorities late at night would lie !

Pedantic_Hibee
28-12-2011, 10:46 AM
Thanks. I choose "asbestos-ridden scarf-twirling paedo".

:faf: :faf: :faf:

:top marks

allezsauzee
28-12-2011, 04:33 PM
I can't say i blame Fletcher for not wanting to go grovelling to that **** stain

Hibby Bairn
31-12-2011, 04:07 PM
Bump.

Another goal! :agree:

Pretty Boy
31-12-2011, 04:17 PM
If Fletcher keeps up this form then people will soon forget the alleged reasons he's bot being picked and simply start to demand that Levein picks him

The Scottish national team needs a top class strikers, that's what Fletcher is therefore Levein should hold out ab olive branch ASAP.

Seveno
31-12-2011, 04:58 PM
How much is he worth now ?

( Other than a Scotland cap ).