Pat Fenlon

[Ozyhibby]

We have a defence that has shipped about 120 goals in the last 2 years and the first thing the new manager does is sign a striker.
If he carries on like this we'll be looking for a new manager before 2012 is out.

[The_Todd]

Harsh. The transfer window's not even open yet, so I don't see the problem. He knew Doyle was available as the LOI season has finished. Are you saying he should have signed some random LOI defenders for the sake of signing a defender?

I didn't think we'd turn on PF this quickly!

[PeterboroHibee]

:confused: We are a week away from the transfer window being open and you are moaning about the new managers signings? Get a grip. Hes signed a striker who was on form last season, and giving that we are hardly firing up front, its a good thing imo.

He identified all 3 areas of the pitch as needing proper leaders and experience during his interview on the BBC tonight, and said they are working to get players in, so just be patient. Got the impression that he has the same feelings as all of the fans ie they are rubbish.

[Franck Stanton]

FFS get a grip man, Fenlon had a couple of defenders over on trial a few weeks back didn't he. He obviously knows the areas to strengthen, as for signing a striker, we aren't exactly over-endowed with quality in that department now are we ? Especially if the rumours about GOC and Rangers are to be believed. IF we get to the end of the window and Fenlon hasn't strengthened the defence, then thats the time to slate him, certainly not a week before the window has even opened.

[Ozyhibby]

I'm not turning on him yet. We clearly have a bunch of players who could get Jose Mourinho the sack. I'm just anxious that the limited budget we have is spent well.
If we are only able to bring in 4 players then I would prefer if we brought in 3 defenders and a creative midfielder. We could have struggled by with the forwards we have IMHO.

[The_Todd]

I'm not turning on him yet. We clearly have a bunch of players who could get Jose Mourinho the sack. I'm just anxious that the limited budget we have is spent well.
If we are only able to bring in 4 players then I would prefer if we brought in 3 defenders and a creative midfielder. We could have struggled by with the forwards we have IMHO.

I beg to differ:
GOC linked with a move to Der Hun
Griffiths loan expires 9th January, not extended yet.

[Elephant Stone]

I also have doubts about his signing policy, 0 transfer windows is clearly more than enough to make his mark on the team.

[Ozyhibby]

We are not scoring goals because we are not creating chances at all. Our forwards hardly see the ball during the game.

[Ozyhibby]

I beg to differ:
GOC linked with a move to Der Hun
Griffiths loan expires 9th January, not extended yet.

If that is the case (they are leaving) then fair enough but if they are still here in Feb then we have wasted a signing.

[Postman]

What a ridiculous opening post! He won't be the last and was also wanted by other clubs if the papers are to be believed and we got in before them to get him signed up a week before the window opens!! He'll get my 100% backing in all he does for a good while yet, he's taken on a hell of a task with this squad of players so to question him before we've seen even one of his signings play is crazy. There will be quality players in most positions in the LOI so here's hoping he has a few in mind and we can afford them

[R'Albin]

We have a defence that has shipped about 120 goals in the last 2 years and the first thing the new manager does is sign a striker.
If he carries on like this we'll be looking for a new manager before 2012 is out.

Dearie me! :rolleyes:

[marinello59]

We have a defence that has shipped about 120 goals in the last 2 years and the first thing the new manager does is sign a striker.
If he carries on like this we'll be looking for a new manager before 2012 is out.

Unbelievable. He is just in the door and hasn't had a transfer window to work in. . Some Hibs fans get the team they deserve.

[Ozyhibby]

What a ridiculous opening post! He won't be the last and was also wanted by other clubs if the papers are to be believed and we got in before them to get him signed up a week before the window opens!! He'll get my 100% backing in all he does for a good while yet, he's taken on a hell of a task with this squad of players so to question him before we've seen even one of his signings play is crazy. There will be quality players in most positions in the LOI so here's hoping he has a few in mind and we can afford them

I'm not questioning the players ability at all. I hope he is a fantastic player.
I was just expressing my preference for shoring up our defence and adding some creativity to our midfield.

[Postman]

I'm not questioning the players ability at all. I hope he is a fantastic player.
I was just expressing my preference for shoring up our defence and adding some creativity to our midfield.
So we should ignore players in other positions that you feel aren't as important until we sign defenders? I was there today and I can tell you we desperately need all positions replaced and on top of that our two top strikers are currently loan players and the one who was up front todays deal expires in a week I believe!!

[The_Horde]

I think its strikers and general attack minded players that we need!

We need players who are capable of taking the pressure off the defence and taking the game to teams.

[BoltonHibee]

I'm not questioning the players ability at all. I hope he is a fantastic player.
I was just expressing my preference for shoring up our defence and adding some creativity to our midfield.

As long as he is not our only January capture, otherwise your sentiments would be justified.

[Sir David Gray]

I've no doubts whatsoever that Fenlon realises that the defence is rubbish and needs improvement.

However, it's not as if defence is the only weak area of the team and we're particularly strong elsewhere.

In fact, it's worth noting that we've scored the least amount of goals in the league so far this season. There have also been 9 games this season where we have failed to score.

It remains to be seen if Eoin Doyle will be a success at Hibs, but I see nothing wrong with a striker being our first signing under Fenlon.

[BEEJ]

If that is the case (they are leaving) then fair enough but if they are still here in Feb then we have wasted a signing.
Agogo confirmed as departing - or may even have already left. So the Doyle signing will be justified in any event.

Even if PF had signed a defender or midfielder this week, they would not have been able to play until 1 January.

Don't see your point, caller. :rolleyes:

[Robinho08]

Get a grip.

Anyway, PF had a defender on trial too but decided against signing him.

[steakbake]

Madness. Fenlon doesn't even need to be manager to see that we don't score anywhere near enough goals. We're a one trick pony, with O'Connor up front who is far from the talented player we used to know and love. Yes, he's scored more of our goals than any other player, but in our position, we cannot afford to carry passengers and while he's getting his head together off the field (or nursing a sore toe as we're told today), we're a man down.

Griffiths can't do it all on his own. Agogo and Sodje have hardly set the heather alight either.

So I have no problem whatsoever that one of the first priority signings we make is a striker because looking at the situation for what it is, we have Griffiths till the 9th Jan, Agogo and Sodje who are more miss than hit and O'Connor who may/may not be off to the Huns but even if he isn't, his various court appearances and off-field shenanigans have affected what was otherwise a bright start.

If anything, I think we need another striker as well as Doyle.

[HFC 0-7]

We have a defence that has shipped about 120 goals in the last 2 years and the first thing the new manager does is sign a striker.
If he carries on like this we'll be looking for a new manager before 2012 is out.

He will know the defence is a priority but do you not thing it would be very silly to pass up on a promising striker who will probably only be available for a short time, just because the defence is a priority? He had a defender on trial I believe but never signed him so he is looking. When the vast majority of players arent available to sign at the moment, having a pop at the manager for not signing is a bit harsh.

[SteveHFC]

Get a grip FFS. 3 games in and your criticize him already. It isn't his fault he has to work with these brainless ***** :aok:

[Lago]

Well that was a pretty short honey moon period for Pat. You couldn't make it up.

[judas]

We have a defence that has shipped about 120 goals in the last 2 years and the first thing the new manager does is sign a striker.
If he carries on like this we'll be looking for a new manager before 2012 is out.

Looking for a rise are we?

3 games into his management. Your criticism is nauseating.

[Ozyhibby]

Maybe I am just a little nervous after last seasons worst defence in the SPL only saw one change (Bamba out, o'hanlon in).
Hopefully I will be proved wrong and by the end of January we will have signed 3 quality defenders and a creative midfielder.
We will have to wait and see but I'm not holding my breath.

[Cropley10]

I'm not turning on him yet.

:aok:

[HUTCHYHIBBY]

I'm quite down on Hibs these days, but, FFS man have a word!

[tamig]

We have a defence that has shipped about 120 goals in the last 2 years and the first thing the new manager does is sign a striker.
If he carries on like this we'll be looking for a new manager before 2012 is out.

Out of order bud I'm afraid.

[Teuchter Hibbie]

What a ridiculous opening post! He won't be the last and was also wanted by other clubs if the papers are to be believed and we got in before them to get him signed up a week before the window opens!! He'll get my 100% backing in all he does for a good while yet, he's taken on a hell of a task with this squad of players so to question him before we've seen even one of his signings play is crazy. There will be quality players in most positions in the LOI so here's hoping he has a few in mind and we can afford them

:agree: cant believe after 3 and a half games (and a decent increase in the team's performance as well) people are turning on him. utter nonsense.

[Ozyhibby]

:agree: cant believe after 3 and a half games (and a decent increase in the team's performance as well) people are turning on him. utter nonsense.

We've lost 3 out of 3?

[Broken Gnome]

We've lost 3 out of 3?

We won the half game. Never forget we won the half game. Shameless stat twisting.

[lucky]

Why is it always so called that never go to games have a go at the club first. FFS give Pat a chance.

Yes we are all gutted at getting beat again but there is an improvement in performances but not results so far. I think with the right signings we will be top 6. But before he brings in a couple of defenders we are going to suffer more including the derby

[Ozyhibby]

Why is it always so called that never go to games have a go at the club first. FFS give Pat a chance.

Yes we are all gutted at getting beat again but there is an improvement in performances but not results so far. I think with the right signings we will be top 6. But before he brings in a couple of defenders we are going to suffer more including the derby

Who says I never go to games?

[Teuchter Hibbie]

We've lost 3 out of 3?

yes 3 games, one of which was vs an OF team. hardly an adequate time period over which to criticise a new manager in a new league, yet to have a transfer window, especially given the even worse "unworkable legacy" that calderwood has left behind. surely you weren't expecting a quick fix, splitting the old firm, and junior agogo leading the spl scoring charts?

[R'Albin]

Why is it always so called that never go to games have a go at the club first. FFS give Pat a chance.

Yes we are all gutted at getting beat again but there is an improvement in performances but not results so far. I think with the right signings we will be top 6. But before he brings in a couple of defenders we are going to suffer more including the derby

:agree:

We have had quite a few chances in the last few games that we have missed. If Griffiths has scored that header today and put us 0-2 up I think we would have won the game. We were easily the better side first half and could easily have been more than 1 up at HT.

[Wotherspiniesta]

:agree:

We have had quite a few chances in the last few games that we have missed. If Griffiths has scored that header today and put us 0-2 up I think we would have won the game. We were easily the better side first half and could easily have been more than 1 up at HT.

Sorry, can't agree with that at all. We create absolutely nothing and are in dire need of a playmaker in midfield A Zemmama/Shiels/Latapy type would do just nicely.

[Postman]

Who says I never go to games?
You started this thread criticising the manager for signing a striker would suggest you are unaware of the many problems that are in the first team and he also perhaps thought you were in Australia from your user name? I can see it says Edinburgh below though

[joe breezy]

We have a defence that has shipped about 120 goals in the last 2 years and the first thing the new manager does is sign a striker.
If he carries on like this we'll be looking for a new manager before 2012 is out.

FFS - sorry was a great defender available, ridiculous comment...

Transfer window isnt even open

[thebausburst]

Why is it always so called that never go to games have a go at the club first. FFS give Pat a chance.

Yes we are all gutted at getting beat again but there is an improvement in performances

Where about exactly????????:confused:

[Postman]

Sorry, can't agree with that at all. We create absolutely nothing and are in dire need of a playmaker in midfield A Zemmama/Shiels/Latapy type would do just nicely.
A Latapy yes definitely but a Zemmama or Shiels you think would help our situation? Zemmama was never fit and Shiels had more than enough time and was never consistently good enough!

[greenlex]

Even if he had signed a whole back four they wouldn't have been available today.

[Sir David Gray]

A Latapy yes definitely but a Zemmama or Shiels you think would help our situation? Zemmama was never fit and Shiels had more than enough time and was never consistently good enough!

Dean Shiels was one of the highest scoring midfielders we've had in recent years.

31 goals in 101 starts for Hibs. I would love to have a midfielder with a record like that now, in fact I would love to have a striker with a record like that.

[Postman]

Dean Shiels was one of the highest scoring midfielders we've had in recent years.

31 goals in 101 starts for Hibs. I would love to have a midfielder with a record like that now, in fact I would love to have a striker with a record like that.
Its a game of opinions I suppose but I certainly wouldn't want him back, too lightweight and inconsistent for me. Definitely not what we need right now. He played in more than 101 games for us by the way

[Postman]

Dean Shiels was one of the highest scoring midfielders we've had in recent years.

31 goals in 101 starts for Hibs. I would love to have a midfielder with a record like that now, in fact I would love to have a striker with a record like that.
And for what its worth he never scored 31 and was a penalty taker on a number of occasions so he's not quite the prolific goal scoring midfielder you seem to remember

[skipster7]

Going a wee bit of the OP( probably a good thing) but imo Dean shiels has the one thing nobody else in the squad has,a football brain and a nose for goal.exactly the type of player who would improve our midfield,who seem to be working a bit harder but are very limited going forward.

[Sir David Gray]

And for what its worth he never scored 31 and was a penalty taker on a number of occasions so he's not quite the prolific goal scoring midfielder you seem to remember

He scored 31 goals for Hibs.

6 goals in 2004/05
2 goals in 2005/06
9 goals in 2006/07
10 goals in 2007/08
4 goals in 2008/09

That makes 31 goals.

Out of those 31 goals, only 4 were penalties, so he scored 27 goals from open play for Hibs. Still considerably better than any midfielder that we've had since he left 3 years ago.

And, by the way, I said that he made 101 STARTS for Hibs, not appearances, which he did.

[Ozyhibby]

I'd rather sign another striker than bring back Dean Sheils.

[Postman]

He scored 31 goals for Hibs.

6 goals in 2004/05
2 goals in 2005/06
9 goals in 2006/07
10 goals in 2007/08
4 goals in 2008/09

That makes 31 goals.

Out of those 31 goals, only 4 were penalties, so he scored 27 goals from open play for Hibs. Still considerably better than any midfielder that we've had since he left 3 years ago.

And, by the way, I said that he made 101 STARTS for Hibs, not appearances, which he did.

I have him down as:

5 goals in 2004/05
2 goals in 2005/06
7 goals in 2006/07
7 goals in 2007/08
3 goals in 2008/09

Also down for 117 appearances. He never scored as a substitute? Or are you just trying to make the stats look as good as possible?

[R'Albin]

Sorry, can't agree with that at all. We create absolutely nothing and are in dire need of a playmaker in midfield A Zemmama/Shiels/Latapy type would do just nicely.

We created a fair few chances against Aberdeen and a few today... We had 15 attempts overall against the sheep, we really should be scoring some of them.

I agree though we could do with one of those players right now.

[IWasThere2016]

We need full-backs, a creative midfielder and another striker (even after Doyle) - and someone to LEAD the team on the park!

All of that is needed this window!

[steakbake]

We need full-backs, a creative midfielder and another striker (even after Doyle) - and someone to LEAD the team on the park!

All of that is needed this window!

At least 4 new players in, at least 4 players out. Have to say any of the current crop can go and I wouldn't question it.

[NORTHERNHIBBY]

Trying to fix this team in the window is a huge ask. I don't see us going from hoofball to the pass and move team that we all want to see in the space of a few weeks.

[greenlex]

Trying to fix this team in the window is a huge ask. I don't see us going from hoofball to the pass and move team that we all want to see in the space of a few weeks.

I will settle for one that can stay in the top league. The football can wait till Fenlon gets more time and opportunity to change the whole squad

[steakbake]

Trying to fix this team in the window is a huge ask. I don't see us going from hoofball to the pass and move team that we all want to see in the space of a few weeks.

This season is now damage limitation. We need to stay safe and stay up. Would happily see a few fighters in to grab us a few points. Summer should be a massive clear out.

[500miles]

We need an experienced centre half, who's played at the top, who doesn't confidence doesn't crumble as soon as we lose a goal and who the other players can look to for leadership.

Davie Weir would be an excellent aquisition, but sadly it looks doubtful. Stephens has the legs to cover for him, and the potential to benefit from his experience. We need that sort of player, a creative midfield player, a right back and a winger or two.

[Sir David Gray]

I have him down as:

5 goals in 2004/05
2 goals in 2005/06
7 goals in 2006/07
7 goals in 2007/08
3 goals in 2008/09

Also down for 117 appearances. He never scored as a substitute? Or are you just trying to make the stats look as good as possible?

You've only included his SPL goals there, he scored 3 goals in the Scottish Cup and 4 goals in the League Cup as well, which takes him up to 31.

You've also only included his SPL appearances, if you're going to include all of his appearances, in all competitions, then it was 145.

[Septimus]

The position in which his imports play is not really relevant as all positions require improvement. However it would be a pleasant change if we actually signed someone who could play football at SPL level.

[MrRobot]

Give it a rest man, should we ignore players who are available because we need defenders? Did we not have a defender on trial before we signed the striker ?

I actually think we should try 5 at the back, see if makes any difference.

[brydekirk]

OP get real mate ffs.

[Postman]

You've only included his SPL goals there, he scored 3 goals in the Scottish Cup and 4 goals in the League Cup as well, which takes him up to 31.

You've also only included his SPL appearances, if you're going to include all of his appearances, in all competitions, then it was 145.
So his stats are are 31 in 145 and not 101. I agree that even at that they are not bad stats but would still see any move for him as a bad one
A creative midfielder is definitely required and he would be a good sqaud player but not someone to have in the team every week

[hibby67]

We've lost 3 out of 3?

comments like this does not help yes we have lost 3 out of 3 but were you expecting anything different

i think PF will be good for us once he gets his own player in
as for you saying in an earlier post that doyle was a wasted signing i for one will give you a big fat :na na: when he scores the winner against the yams......:agree:

[RickyS]

Dean Shiels was one of the highest scoring midfielders we've had in recent years.

31 goals in 101 starts for Hibs. I would love to have a midfielder with a record like that now, in fact I would love to have a striker with a record like that.

as one poster says it is all about opinions. I think Shiels is exactly the type we need. we have zero creativity at the minute. at Killie he and Gary Harkins both get forward and contribute goals too, i'm sure both of them this season have more goals and assists than the likes of Rankin did in his entire time with us.

[Saorsa]

We have a defence that has shipped about 120 goals in the last 2 years and the first thing the new manager does is sign a striker.
If he carries on like this we'll be looking for a new manager before 2012 is out.I thought I liked a bit of a moan when it came tae Hibs but this thread is a cracker, having a dig at the new manager (of three weeks) first signing. Just maybe he knows more about what's happening as far as strikers are concerned than you do? Who says Garry O will still be here, maybe we winnae get Sparky's loan extended or maybe the manager disnae want him and even if they are both still here maybe he still thinks we need him for the future and took him while available before somebody else did. A player he wanted became available a wee bit early, he signed him. I'm sure he knows what he needs and he will do his best tae get as many of them in as he can this windae tae hopefully steer us away from trouble until he do a proper job in the summer.

[Sir David Gray]

So his stats are are 31 in 145 and not 101. I agree that even at that they are not bad stats but would still see any move for him as a bad one
A creative midfielder is definitely required and he would be a good sqaud player but not someone to have in the team every week

I've not said that we should be necessarily signing Dean Shiels, I've only countered your argument which stated that he was never consistently good enough at Hibs.

I think he was more than good enough whilst at Hibs and will go down as one of the best midfielders that Hibs have had in recent years.

[RIP]

If there's one thing that makes me sad its that some of us still cling to the failed strategy of rubbishing the current team and praying that there are players out there who are both better and available.

No player in his right mind should sign for hibs right now.

Player churn is the problem not the solution

[Cropley10]

I've not said that we should be necessarily signing Dean Shiels, I've only countered your argument which stated that he was never consistently good enough at Hibs.

I think he was more than good enough whilst at Hibs and will go down as one of the best midfielders that Hibs have had in recent years.

Agree. Probably had the best first touch in that team. As much as Stevensons performances have made him look good in this team, so Deano's inconsistency occurred in a FAR better team than this one. I thought he was the best player on the park at ER recently.

[Hibernia Na Eir]

We have a defence that has shipped about 120 goals in the last 2 years and the first thing the new manager does is sign a striker.
If he carries on like this we'll be looking for a new manager before 2012 is out.

I think he's done the right thing as we also have a team who are very, very shy in front of goal:agree:


Fenlon will do the biz....be patient !

[Ozyhibby]

Not much improvement tonight either.

[SMAXXA]

Not much improvement tonight either.

Get a grip, ffs no like he made some changes from Saturday with full backs etc, played Ivan (as bad as he was) on the right wing and we got a point, naaaa nae improvement, Have a word with yourself.

[Sergeant Hibs]

Thats it get him out he's only signed a striker that scored 25 goals last season and evidently knows where the goal is hold on a minute im just going to phone Robin Van Persie see if he wants to come the windows not even opened yet FFS who would want to play for us anyway the way we as fans treat the players is a fking disgrace hearing 'griffiths yer *****' every 2 minutes do you think telling him how **** he is will make him play better encourage your team dont worry by the end of the window a defender or 2 or maybe 3 will be signed would you rather we rushed it and signed an idiot like O'Hanlon patience is a virtue my friend

[ALF TUPPER]

Come on buddy. Give Fenlon a chance. A few weeks with this team? ...... sheeeeesh!

[blackpoolhibs]

I remember folk saying the same about Calderwood after 3 or 4 games, and folk were quick to jump in and defend him. :duck: :wink:

[ALF TUPPER]

I remember folk saying the same about Calderwood after 3 or 4 games, and folk were quick to jump in and defend him. :duck: :wink:

Aye. Think that was me then too! :wink:

[blackpoolhibs]

Aye. Think that was me then too! :wink:

:greengrin I actually wish we'd lay off the Fenlon will get it right pish, we have no idea if he will. We all hope he does, :pray: but we dont know and shouldnt be stating he will as some kind of fact.

[BEEJ]

I remember folk saying the same about Calderwood after 3 or 4 games, and folk were quick to jump in and defend him. :duck: :wink:
Always far better to get stuck in from the off, eh? :greengrin

That way you can't be accused of being double-minded.

[Benny Brazil]

Fenlon will only get it right if he can bring in some players in Jan - otherwise he's a sitting duck with the current crop.

[blackpoolhibs]

Always far better to get stuck in from the off, eh? :greengrin

That way you can't be accused of being double-minded.

:greengrin I had never heard of Fenlon before he came to us, apart from something about him rejecting the Dundee Utd job. I have now read about his record in Ireland, and have been listening to what he has said since signing.

I have no idea if he will be a success or not, yet if i said he will be a failure and i'm sure of that. I'd be slated on here for not giving him a chance. Yet there are folk who come on and say he will be a success, yet give no reason and really are only guessing anyway.

For what its worth, i like what i hear from him. I hope he gets it right, i think he will give us his all and try his best. He will certainly give us more than the last clown. I hope he has a better eye for a player, and can organise and put together a better squad than he currently has.

If he can, we will get better? :dunno: :pray:

[Andy74]

If there's one thing that makes me sad its that some of us still cling to the failed strategy of rubbishing the current team and praying that there are players out there who are both better and available.

No player in his right mind should sign for hibs right now.

Player churn is the problem not the solution

Generally you are right but right now we have an awful squad and we need as much churn as we can get.

When we get a better squad then we can try and minimise the changes.

[Captain Trips]

My concern with the new signing is nothing to do with ability it is the 18mts contract. We really need to build here all our current forwards contract expire at end or before season's end, Doyles firys 6mths will be during this p1ss poor season which is all about survival, once new season starts he can sign a pre contract after 6mths.

No matter who instigated contract length it is not what we need IMO of course.

[Andy74]

My concern with the new signing is nothing to do with ability it is the 18mts contract. We really need to build here all our current forwards contract expire at end or before season's end, Doyles firys 6mths will be during this p1ss poor season which is all about survival, once new season starts he can sign a pre contract after 6mths.

No matter who instigated contract length it is not what we need IMO of course.

Mind you, you could be back here in six months wondering how quickly we can get rid of him and asking which idiot gave him a contract beyond the year? :greengrin

I get your point though but I suspect there is some agrement to extend if all goes well.

If only we knew how signings will turn out as after his first couple of games I'd been looking for Palsson to get a lifetime contract!! :eek:

[Captain Trips]

Mind you, you could be back here in six months wondering how quickly we can get rid of him and asking which idiot gave him a contract beyond the year? :greengrin

I get your point though but I suspect there is some agrement to extend if all goes well.

If only we knew how signings will turn out as after his first couple of games I'd been looking for Palsson to get a lifetime contract!! :eek:

I am of opinion if the manager believes in player sign him, if we are signing folk for 6mths in case they are crap then we can continue to enjoy 10th, etc etc. Some players can take longer to bed in whom maybe a success.

It has always worked in past since contracts began the manager signis players some work some dont, I would rather we went that route, the current state of affairs clearly doesnt work. It doesnt matter if he has an option or not we have an option with every player we have to ask them to stay longer if we ask them.

Andy over last few months we have agreed like never before on here lets keep it that way and agree with me :greengrin

[Speedway]

It's OPs like this that make me want Hibs to go bust just to **** off the 'fans'

How is Fenlon doing in other areas?

Has he spat too much?

Has he discussed tactics with his assistants enough, too much, not enough?

What about his satorial elegance? We haven't seen him in a suit since the day he was appointed. To whom do we complain about this?

Has he applauded the fans enough?

I notice he keeps picking 11 players which is a schoolboy error. Surely if he picked 12 we'd have a man advantage in each game. Disgrace.

Assuming the OP isn't on the wind up nor a yam, then it's posts and attitudes like this which are the real problem at Hibs in my opinion FACT.

[Ozyhibby]

It's OPs like this that make me want Hibs to go bust just to **** off the 'fans'

How is Fenlon doing in other areas?

Has he spat too much?

Has he discussed tactics with his assistants enough, too much, not enough?

What about his satorial elegance? We haven't seen him in a suit since the day he was appointed. To whom do we complain about this?

Has he applauded the fans enough?

I notice he keeps picking 11 players which is a schoolboy error. Surely if he picked 12 we'd have a man advantage in each game. Disgrace.

Assuming the OP isn't on the wind up nor a yam, then it's posts and attitudes like this which are the real problem at Hibs in my opinion FACT.

Easy with the Yam accusations. I'm not easy offended but that's pushing it. :-)

[oldbutdim]

Easy with the Yam accusations. I'm not easy offended but that's pushing it. :-)

How about this then............


When I read the OP I misread your name as Dozyhibby.........

:greengrin

[Kaiser1962]

:greengrin I had never heard of Fenlon before he came to us, apart from something about him rejecting the Dundee Utd job. I have now read about his record in Ireland, and have been listening to what he has said since signing.


He didnt reject it.

United wanted him but then Bohemians changed their stance and wanted £250k in compensation. United didnt want to/couldn't pay.

[Spike Mandela]

Assuming the OP isn't on the wind up nor a yam, then it's posts and attitudes like this which are the real problem at Hibs in my opinion FACT.

Here we go again! Posts on a messageboard are the problem not the rubbish players or the dreadful results:rolleyes:

[whiskyhibby]

I'm not turning on him yet. We clearly have a bunch of players who could get Jose Mourinho the sack. I'm just anxious that the limited budget we have is spent well.
If we are only able to bring in 4 players then I would prefer if we brought in 3 defenders and a creative midfielder. We could have struggled by with the forwards we have IMHO.

Sounds like you are.............Euither that or its a Yammish wind up:cb

[BEEJ]

:greengrin I had never heard of Fenlon before he came to us, apart from something about him rejecting the Dundee Utd job. I have now read about his record in Ireland, and have been listening to what he has said since signing.

I have no idea if he will be a success or not, yet if i said he will be a failure and i'm sure of that. I'd be slated on here for not giving him a chance. Yet there are folk who come on and say he will be a success, yet give no reason and really are only guessing anyway.

For what its worth, i like what i hear from him. I hope he gets it right, i think he will give us his all and try his best. He will certainly give us more than the last clown. I hope he has a better eye for a player, and can organise and put together a better squad than he currently has.

If he can, we will get better? :dunno: :pray:
:agree: But while none of us have much evidence to go on, there is at least some virtue in supporters expressing hope, faith - even an assurance - that things will improve under the new guy.

Anyone who starts at this early stage to question PF as our latest managerial appointment (and I know you are not) is simply piling on even greater misery to that being endured by Hibs supporters on so many other levels.

One therefore has to question an individual's motivation for making such negative comments and ask what purpose they serve other than to throw petrol on the fire and generally wind folk up.

[whiskyhibby]

I remember folk saying the same about Calderwood after 3 or 4 games, and folk were quick to jump in and defend him. :duck: :wink:


So whats the issue...........Are you saying as CC was given more than 4 games without criticism, then we should be critiscing PF at an earlier stage? and do we sack him after 6 games?...........

WTF would he stay with this level of "Support"

[nortonhibby]

Generally you are right but right now we have an awful squad and we need as much churn as we can get.

When we get a better squad then we can try and minimise the changes.

How long will that take ? we need results points now.

[scuttle]

He will bring in his own players eventually
But at the moment he has to look at whats hes got in proper match situations not just in training,we must give him time to get rid of the dead wood

[blackpoolhibs]

So whats the issue...........Are you saying as CC was given more than 4 games without criticism, then we should be critiscing PF at an earlier stage? and do we sack him after 6 games?...........

WTF would he stay with this level of "Support"

Issue, what issue? I stated that folk were quick to have a pop at clueless, now it seems the same is happening now. For what its worth, i think both were wrong?

I hope that answers your question, although perhaps you did not see the smillies?:confused:

[blackpoolhibs]

:agree: But while none of us have much evidence to go on, there is at least some virtue in supporters expressing hope, faith - even an assurance - that things will improve under the new guy.

Anyone who starts at this early stage to question PF as our latest managerial appointment (and I know you are not) is simply piling on even greater misery to that being endured by Hibs supporters on so many other levels.

One therefore has to question an individual's motivation for making such negative comments and ask what purpose they serve other than to throw petrol on the fire and generally wind folk up.

:agree: Nowt wrong with expressing hope, but just as its wrong to say he's a numpty and will take us down. Its also wrong to state he will turn us round as if its a fact, as both are only guesswork at this stage. :wink:

[Eyrie]

Unlike Calderwood, Fenlon has a good track record, so there is more basis for expressing hope rather than foretelling gloom.

:pfgwa

[Speedway]

Here we go again! Posts on a messageboard are the problem not the rubbish players or the dreadful results:rolleyes:

Cool, I'll come to your place of work, assuming you have one, and berate your every move with a vitriolic attack. I'll then repeat it on a messageboard you go to, as well, in detail.

I'm sure we'll all be pleased the the sharp upturn in your performances, productivity and attitude accordingly.

[Kaiser1962]

Unlike Calderwood, Fenlon has a good track record, so there is more basis for expressing hope rather than foretelling gloom.

:pfgwa


Calderwood had a decent track record.

[Eyrie]

Calderwood had a decent track record.
I'd describe his pre-Hibs track record as streaky, with the good bits lasting just long enough to outweigh the bad.

[Ozyhibby]

Lucky we moved for Doyle so early. He was just what we needed for the last 5 mins.
Meanwhile at the other end we coughed up another 3 goals.
Magic.

[FitbaFolkKen]

Lucky we moved for Doyle so early. He was just what we needed for the last 5 mins.
Meanwhile at the other end we coughed up another 3 goals.
Magic.

God forbid Fenlon signs a striker who is available that he thinks could do a job, lets be honest we are murder all over the pitch he, quite rightly in my opinion, is trying to improve the whole team. Last year Calderwood got nailed for not signing early enough, the Hibs job really is a no win at the moment.

Fenlon has said there will be changes, if there are any other signings i'd hope you would give them longer than 5 minutes before judging them.

[Ozyhibby]

Ten days of the window to go and still no sign of the 3/4 defenders we clearly need. Still, so long as we keep signing strikers we'll be alright.
Nice one, Pat.

[SquashedFrogg]

Ten days of the window to go and still no sign of the 3/4 defenders we clearly need. Still, so long as we keep signing strikers we'll be alright.
Nice one, Pat.

What would've happened if he hadn't brought in Doyle and Lee & Garry left?

Right now, goals will keep us up IMO

[lucky]

I'm sure Pat will turn us around. Clearly has passion and an eye for a player. Hibs will come good but we do need players in lift the whole place

[Ozyhibby]

I'm actually quite hopeful that Fenlon will be a good manager for us but he has to act now. If he does not sign a new defence this week he may not survive until the August transfer window.

[muirhousehibby]

Ten days of the window to go and still no sign of the 3/4 defenders we clearly need. Still, so long as we keep signing strikers we'll be alright.
Nice one, Pat.

good players cost money and free agents want the best deal they can get.

january aint the best time to bring players in,for all different reasons.

We are sitting wrong end of table and good players don't want to sign deals that could end up being spent in the first divison.:agree:

Just maybe PF targets don't want to come to hibs or clubs don't want to loan them out,cause sure as hell we aint going to be splashing cash to buy them. All this makes it hard for Pat Fenlon.

[Emerald]

good players cost money and free agents want the best deal they can get.

january aint the best time to bring players in,for all different reasons.

We are sitting wrong end of table and good players don't want to sign deals that could end up being spent in the first divison.:agree:

Just maybe PF targets don't want to come to hibs or clubs don't want to loan them out,cause sure as hell we aint going to be splashing cash to buy them. All this makes it hard for Pat Fenlon.

Who cares how hard it is, it needs doing and doing now. As the poster above said, he may not get another window in the SPL. They have to go out and get the best people by whatever means it takes. You cant keep hiding behind excuses. I'm sure Harry Redknapp didnt hide behind these excuses when Spurs were bottom. I know he had money but he also has a good reputation in the game and contacts. We HAVE to convince the right players to sign for us no matter what, because this lot WILL get us relegated.

[stanton10]

I'm sure Pat will turn us around. Clearly has passion and an eye for a player. Hibs will come good but we do need players in lift the whole place
Has, a eye for a player where about ........ francomb......

[Andy74]

Has, a eye for a player where about ........ francomb......

What about him?

[Eyrie]

Has, a eye for a player where about ........ francomb......

He's played how many games for us before this rush to judgement?

I'd like to see him in his natural position of RB for a few games before deciding, but that won't happen unless we're willing to gamble on an inexperienced back four. Sooner we sign a CH and Murray comes back the better.

[marinello59]

Has, a eye for a player where about ........ francomb......

What a particularly pathetic comment. How many minutes has the guy played for us and you have written him off already.

[Wotherspiniesta]

Ten days of the window to go and still no sign of the 3/4 defenders we clearly need. Still, so long as we keep signing strikers we'll be alright.
Nice one, Pat.

I'm sorry, but some of your posts are ****ing ridiculous.

Do you not think Pat knows that we need new defenders?:rolleyes:

[Hibees07]

Has, a eye for a player where about ........ francomb......

Kind of agree with this comment at the moment.

Obviously neither player has had enough time yet but I would have thought both should have been good enough to go straight in the team and make a significant impact.

I don't think either of them look to be players capable of lifting us out of the mess we are in, just a continuation of a signing policy of untested & untried players a fingers crossed policy.

When I look at St.Johnstone they have brought in experience & youth, Lee Croft made an imediate impact and looks a player, probably because he has a decent footballing history. Sandaza was in a different league to our forwards & the other guy up front caused havoc. They were still capable of bringing on a front player that we couldn't sign. Pretty worrying indeed.

Dunfermline have gone out and signed an experienced midfielder (Mark Kerr) & former captain with leadership abilities, result a 3-0 away victory to a team that pumped us 4-1. By all accounts he was influential in achieving this result.

Yesterday I was feeling the lowest of low, despite the poor season we have had I think it finally clicked that we are on a losing battle, absolutely gutted.

[Gordy M]

Kind of agree with this comment at the moment.

Obviously neither player has had enough time yet but I would have thought both should have been good enough to go straight in the team and make a significant impact.

I don't think either of them look to be players capable of lifting us out of the mess we are in, just a continuation of a signing policy of untested & untried players a fingers crossed policy.

When I look at St.Johnstone they have brought in experience & youth, Lee Croft made an imediate impact and looks a player, probably because he has a decent footballing history. Sandaza was in a different league to our forwards & the other guy up front caused havoc. They were still capable of bringing on a front player that we couldn't sign. Pretty worrying indeed.

Dunfermline have gone out and signed an experienced midfielder (Mark Kerr) & former captain with leadership abilities, result a 3-0 away victory to a team that pumped us 4-1. By all accounts he was influential in achieving this result.

Yesterday I was feeling the lowest of low, despite the poor season we have had I think it finally clicked that we are on a losing battle, absolutely gutted.

Thing is, if we had signed Mark Kerr it would be seen by many as the cheap option for another journeyman pro(think he came from Cyprus 2nd div).

[stanton10]

What about him?

Well anwser this how does he sighn a out and out right back and play him in the middle at 20 years old and not tested is he the player we need to get out this sh-t ,

[James70]

I am just wondering if we have got the wrong guy in as manager.

Before folk start accusing me of not giving him a chance I have nothing against PF at all and I am sure he will be a better manager than the previous two incumbents.

My point however is that PF is not used to managing a team at the bottom end of the table fighting relegation judging by the number of league championships he has won in Ireland. He very possibly does not have sufficient experience of this type of situation to be able to get the club away from the bottom of the league.

Although it would have been a hugely unpopular appointment I do believe that Tango man would have got us to safety and though the football would not have been pretty to watch his tactics would have been effective.

Only consolation I can see is that if we are relegated then PF will be the man to get us back up in one go.

[Hibs7]

Francom can play full back or midfield, give the guy a break ffs.

[Jonnyboy]

We have a defence that has shipped about 120 goals in the last 2 years and the first thing the new manager does is sign a striker.
If he carries on like this we'll be looking for a new manager before 2012 is out.

We're the lowest scoring team in the SPL

[Ozyhibby]

45 goals conceded so far this season. When are we going to toughen up?

[FitbaFolkKen]

45 goals conceded so far this season. When are we going to toughen up?

When are you going to stop resurrecting this thread? As Pat has said today that we still need at another defender after already signing 2, maybe get another wee dig in about trying to improve the rest of the squad as well :confused:

[Ozyhibby]

When we improve I'll munch down on a large piece of humble pie. Until then I'm going to be a moaning git like most Hibs fans right now.

[FitbaFolkKen]

When we improve I'll munch down on a large piece of humble pie. Until then I'm going to be a moaning git like most Hibs fans right now.

I don't understand the negativity with the new signings though? To label them dross as you did in another thread after 90 minutes in Ibrox is unbelievable...each to his own I suppose, hopefully you'll be enjoying that pie soon!

[Ozyhibby]

I don't understand the negativity with the new signings though? To label them dross as you did in another thread after 90 minutes in Ibrox is unbelievable...each to his own I suppose, hopefully you'll be enjoying that pie soon!

I hope your right. Don't see it though. None of these guys have been playing first team football anywhere.

[FitbaFolkKen]

I hope your right. Don't see it though. None of these guys have been playing first team football anywhere.

How's that pie tasting? :pfgwa

[Ozyhibby]

Don't think I'll be eating pie anytime soon.
I keep hearing from people on here how much we have improved under Fenlon. I was wondering if someone could explain it to me as I'm really struggling with the whole concept of improvent?

[Northernhibee]

Don't think I'll be eating pie anytime soon.
I keep hearing from people on here how much we have improved under Fenlon. I was wondering if someone could explain it to me as I'm really struggling with the whole concept of improvent?

Is it not blatantly obvious that there's something rotten about our club at a far higher level than manager? Numerous management changes, numerous player changes and the same old problems persist.

PF isn't the man we should be asking questions of.

[Lofarl]

Is it not blatantly obvious that there's something rotten about our club at a far higher level than manager? Numerous management changes, numerous player changes and the same old problems persist.

PF isn't the man we should be asking questions of.


Indeed.

[Cropley10]

The whole thing is a mess. Fenlon looks out of his depth IMO. Nothing has improved.

[Dalkeith]

Is it not blatantly obvious that there's something rotten about our club at a far higher level than manager? Numerous management changes, numerous player changes and the same old problems persist.

PF isn't the man we should be asking questions of.

:top marks:top marks

[The_Todd]

Some people are more delighted that they're being proven correct than they're concerned about the plight of our club imo.

[BEEJ]

Some people are more delighted that they're being proven correct than they're concerned about the plight of our club imo.
:agree: Yeah.

4.41pm. "Must get in there and find that thread I started weeks ago about Fenlon. Imagine the thrill of stirring things up again."

Sad.

[marinello59]

Don't think I'll be eating pie anytime soon.
I keep hearing from people on here how much we have improved under Fenlon. I was wondering if someone could explain it to me as I'm really struggling with the whole concept of improvent?

Bet you couldn't wait for the final whistle to go so you could post that. Well done you.

[Ozyhibby]

Some people are more delighted that they're being proven correct than they're concerned about the plight of our club imo.

Your wrong but it is your opinion. what really matters is are the club prepared to act. It's not all Fenlon's fault. He's just not up to the job of changing a club where the culture is all wrong.

[Beefster]

Bet you couldn't wait for the final whistle to go so you could post that. Well done you.

In his defence, if Fenlon was going great guns then someone would probably be slaughtering him about his original comments.

[Bishop Hibee]

Your wrong but it is your opinion. what really matters is are the club prepared to act. It's not all Fenlon's fault. He's just not up to the job of changing a club where the culture is all wrong.

Who would you suggest who is available within our budget?

[smurf]

Is it not blatantly obvious that there's something rotten about our club at a far higher level than manager? Numerous management changes, numerous player changes and the same old problems persist.

PF isn't the man we should be asking questions of.

For some its us the fans. More of us need to buy season tickets.

[hibsbollah]

i heard my first 'Fenlon must go' amongst the boos today.

[SteveHFC]

i heard my first 'Fenlon must go' amongst the boos today.

That is pathetic FFS! :rolleyes:

[IWasThere2016]

i heard my first 'Fenlon must go' amongst the boos today.

He only has to worry if that changes to 'Petrie must go' by the AGM.

[loanheadhibby]

In his defence, if Fenlon was going great guns then someone would probably be slaughtering him about his original comments.

Calderwood was terrible but is Fenlon any better? On the evidence so far you would have to say league results have been worse. It would be great to have the luxury of time but Fenlon does not have it and if we do go down I would lay the blame at Fenlons door.

Fenlon will have had more than enough time.

[Alfred E Newman]

Calderwood was terrible but is Fenlon any better? On the evidence so far you would have to say league results have been worse. It would be great to have the luxury of time but Fenlon does not have it and if we do go down I would lay the blame at Fenlons door.

Fenlon will have had more than enough time.

The standard of football is worse. Route one hoofball from start to finish.

[1875 NO 1]

The whole thing is a mess. Fenlon looks out of his depth IMO. Nothing has improved.

Agree. Tactics remind me of alex miller's - 4 midfielders sitting deep and forwards isolated. Dreadfull to watch

[marinello59]

The standard of football is worse. Route one hoofball from start to finish.

It wasnt even route one today. It's like we were being guided by a dodgy satnav that kept leading us down dead ends.

[silverhibee]

i heard my first 'Fenlon must go' amongst the boos today.

See my post in the Griffiths thread. :rolleyes:

[silverhibee]

Calderwood was terrible but is Fenlon any better? On the evidence so far you would have to say league results have been worse. It would be great to have the luxury of time but Fenlon does not have it and if we do go down I would lay the blame at Fenlons door.

Fenlon will have had more than enough time.


His record in the league is, Played 16 Lost 11 Drawn 3 Won 2.

The manager looked lost today and didn't have an idea to try and change things.

And what is BB bringing to the table, i thought he was meant to come in and rattle the players and get them fitter and fighting harder for themselfs, i would get rid of him and use his wage to bring a player in.

[Jim44]

I think Fenlon has done well and is respected in Ireland but with the exception of a couple of teams with one of them punching above it's weight, the standard is lower than ours. The unfortunate thing is that we aren't good enough for the SPL and better managers than Fenlon would struggle to survive with the dross in our team. I don't think Fenlon will keep us up but I am not suggesting we get rid of him. I'd give him a season to get us back up.

[Wotherspiniesta]

Don't think I'll be eating pie anytime soon.
I keep hearing from people on here how much we have improved under Fenlon. I was wondering if someone could explain it to me as I'm really struggling with the whole concept of improvent?

Well done mate. You don't mess around. I bet you're glad that we were beaten by a better team today so you could rush to your PC and get this thread back to the top of the board. :not worth

You might prove to be right about Fenlon, I think you'll be proven wrong.

However, the fact you started this thread in December questioning his abilities as a manager tells me, and probably a few others what you already know. You never gave the guy a chance.

[Hiber-nation]

Yep, let's just be an even bigger laughing stock if that's possible by sacking yet another manager. Let's hear who some of these would be managerial geniuses would bring in to save our season. Gordon Strachan probably :rolleyes:

[carnoustiehibee]

His record in the league is, Played 16 Lost 11 Drawn 3 Won 2.

The manager looked lost today and didn't have an idea to try and change things.

And what is BB bringing to the table, i thought he was meant to come in and rattle the players and get them fitter and fighting harder for themselfs, i would get rid of him and use his wage to bring a player in.

said the same on the way home, dono what bb's job is or what hes done to improve anything. every game i come out more and more confused on fenlons tactics than anything else, is there any throw in, corner or free kick routines done in training?

he needen to change things at half time today, everyone knew it wasnt working.

could in anyway calderwood and fenlon underestimated the standard of scottish football?

[The Voice Of Reason]

His record in the league is, Played 16 Lost 11 Drawn 3 Won 2.

The manager looked lost today and didn't have an idea to try and change things.

And what is BB bringing to the table, i thought he was meant to come in and rattle the players and get them fitter and fighting harder for themselfs, i would get rid of him and use his wage to bring a player in.

Indeed - the much heralded "Billy Brown Factor".

What a joke that has turned out to be.

[Speedway]

His record in the league is, Played 16 Lost 11 Drawn 3 Won 2.

The manager looked lost today and didn't have an idea to try and change things.

And what is BB bringing to the table, i thought he was meant to come in and rattle the players and get them fitter and fighting harder for themselfs, i would get rid of him and use his wage to bring a player in.

I still need it explained to me how the people who 'must go' always seem to have done alright before and in some cases after Hibs.

Are we a career killing managerial graveyard or do we just employ people whose wish it is for us to suffer?

[Ozyhibby]

I think Fenlon has done well and is respected in Ireland but with the exception of a couple of teams with one of them punching above it's weight, the standard is lower than ours. The unfortunate thing is that we aren't good enough for the SPL and better managers than Fenlon would struggle to survive with the dross in our team. I don't think Fenlon will keep us up but I am not suggesting we get rid of him. I'd give him a season to get us back up.

I what way do you think he has done well, Jim? As bad as the SPL is, the league of Ireland is miles behind it and I believe that Dunfermline would win it. The average crowd over there is lower than our first division. You can tell by the performance of Doyle since he arrived. Scores for fun over there, would not get a game for Spartans here.
The fact is that Fenlon has brought in his own players and has been found out.
In his interview with the SoS last week he said that there was 'no point in changing the coaching set up in Scotland as we could never produce technical players like Spain or holland. That ability only comes naturally.'
When I read that my heart sank. He will never be the right man for us.

[Jim44]

I what way do you think he has done well, Jim? As bad as the SPL is, the league of Ireland is miles behind it and I believe that Dunfermline would win it. The average crowd over there is lower than our first division. You can tell by the performance of Doyle since he arrived. Scores for fun over there, would not get a game for Spartans here.
The fact is that Fenlon has brought in his own players and has been found out.
In his interview with the SoS last week he said that there was 'no point in changing the coaching set up in Scotland as we could never produce technical players like Spain or holland. That ability only comes naturally.'
When I read that my heart sank. He will never be the right man for us.

I'm not knowledgeable about the finer details and statistics of Irish football and am basing this on what we learned and were told around the time he arrived here. I have, like you, said that Irish football is of a lower standard than ours so I don't know why you challenge my opening statement. Surely you didn't think I was inferring that he had done well here. :rolleyes:

[Ozyhibby]

I'm not knowledgeable about the finer details and statistics of Irish football and am basing this on what we learned and were told around the time he arrived here. I have, like you, said that Irish football is of a lower standard than ours so I don't know why you challenge my opening statement. Surely you didn't think I was inferring that he had done well here. :rolleyes:

Sorry Jim. I misread what you said.

[IberianHibernian]

I what way do you think he has done well, Jim? As bad as the SPL is, the league of Ireland is miles behind it and I believe that Dunfermline would win it. The average crowd over there is lower than our first division. You can tell by the performance of Doyle since he arrived. Scores for fun over there, would not get a game for Spartans here.
The fact is that Fenlon has brought in his own players and has been found out.
In his interview with the SoS last week he said that there was 'no point in changing the coaching set up in Scotland as we could never produce technical players like Spain or holland. That ability only comes naturally.'
When I read that my heart sank. He will never be the right man for us.Have you watched a lot of L of I football ? Have you seen the results of L of I clubs in Europe in recent years , certainly better than non OF Scottish clubs and often as good or better than OF . Doyle is only player Fenlon`s signed who was playing in Ireland and as for bringing in his own players who are they ? He arrived , realised squad was rubbish then had to act quick at a notoriously difficult time to sign players as many players as possible in a short time . So far in league results have been bad ( very bad ) but cup results suggest we can still do well after split then hopefully start to build something much better next season with a lot of new players . As others have said here , you`d decided ( for whatever reasons ) Fenlon shouldn`t be our manager almost before he started at ER and seem to take satisfaction in pointing out you were "right " . Let`s hope you`ll be quick to give Fenlon credit if he succeeds .

[Hibs7]

Have you watched a lot of L of I football ? Have you seen the results of L of I clubs in Europe in recent years , certainly better than non OF Scottish clubs and often as good or better than OF . Doyle is only player Fenlon`s signed who was playing in Ireland and as for bringing in his own players who are they ? He arrived , realised squad was rubbish then had to act quick at a notoriously difficult time to sign players as many players as possible in a short time . So far in league results have been bad ( very bad ) biout cup results suggest we can still do well after split then hopefully start to build something much better next season with a lot of new players . As others have said here , you`d decided ( for whatever reasons ) Fenlon shouldn`t be our manager almost before he started at ER and seem to take satisfaction in pointing out you were "right " . Let`s hope you`ll be quick to give Fenlon credit if he succeeds .

I agree totally he has inherited Calderwoods *** up and is doing his best with limited resources, I also think Billy Brown should be allowed to leave at the end of the season, can see no benefit in his presence.
I just hope we can stay up and give PF a fair crack at getting Hibs sorted

[HFC 0-7]

said the same on the way home, dono what bb's job is or what hes done to improve anything. every game i come out more and more confused on fenlons tactics than anything else, is there any throw in, corner or free kick routines done in training?

he needen to change things at half time today, everyone knew it wasnt working.

could in anyway calderwood and fenlon underestimated the standard of scottish football?

Dunno why or what people are expecting from bb! Why is it that some on here look to what the clubs number two is bringing to the table instead of the manager when things are going bad. For all we know he would employ better tactics than fenlon. IMO people just don't like him cause he was at hearts. If the players aren't looking up to it and the tactics are rubbish you can't look at anyone else other than the manager if you want to proportion blame. Fenlons stars are terrible, even the horrific managers before him have better records in the league. I want fenlon to succeed, but he looks a bit out of his depth at the moment. To be honest, i think Petrie and fenlon when first came in would have expected to be clear of the relegation mess by now. IMO fenlon should get the bullet should we go down.

[silverhibee]

Dunno why or what people are expecting from bb! Why is it that some on here look to what the clubs number two is bringing to the table instead of the manager when things are going bad. For all we know he would employ better tactics than fenlon. IMO people just don't like him cause he was at hearts. If the players aren't looking up to it and the tactics are rubbish you can't look at anyone else other than the manager if you want to proportion blame. Fenlons stars are terrible, even the horrific managers before him have better records in the league. I want fenlon to succeed, but he looks a bit out of his depth at the moment. To be honest, i think Petrie and fenlon when first came in would have expected to be clear of the relegation mess by now. IMO fenlon should get the bullet should we go down.

And Brown can go with him if we do. :aok:

[carnoustiehibee]

Dunno why or what people are expecting from bb! Why is it that some on here look to what the clubs number two is bringing to the table instead of the manager when things are going bad. For all we know he would employ better tactics than fenlon. IMO people just don't like him cause he was at hearts. If the players aren't looking up to it and the tactics are rubbish you can't look at anyone else other than the manager if you want to proportion blame. Fenlons stars are terrible, even the horrific managers before him have better records in the league. I want fenlon to succeed, but he looks a bit out of his depth at the moment. To be honest, i think Petrie and fenlon when first came in would have expected to be clear of the relegation mess by now. IMO fenlon should get the bullet should we go down.

wow wow, easy tiger. i didnt say i didnt like him because he was at hearts. you got my comment all wrong.the "what roll does bb play" was separate to the fenlon tactics moan. i agree with everything you said. all the blame lies with fenlon and thats why at the end i said maybe, in some way, did calderwood and fenlon underestimate the scottish league.

[hibsbollah]

Since the window closed Fenlons record is W3 D2 L4. Not great but the improvement HAS been there. Today was unacceptable but i believe the players can and will do better before the end of the season.

[Beefster]

Since the window closed Fenlons record is W3 D2 L4. Not great but the improvement HAS been there. Today was unacceptable but i believe the players can and will do better before the end of the season.

Winning in the cup (two of the three wins) is great and all but won't save us from relegation. We need to start winning in the SPL very soon. To be honest, scoring in the SPL would be a start.

[Expecting Rain]

I sincerely hope i`m wrong and Pat Fenlon proves to be a good appointment but on the evidence of last week and today we`re going nowhere fast.
We can`t keep on excusing lack of confidence for lack of ability, there were lots of unforced errors, lack of imagination, lack of organisation, lack of passion and an overall lack of strategy. We can`t even seem to identify a players best position, neither Soares or Osbourne looked comfortable playing wide, two lightweight forwards don`t compliment each other and are alienated by either long high or diagonal punts. The central midfield pairing would work at school boy level, we are constantly tampering with the right back position ( nothing new there ) and the goalie spends a good time berating others while losing stupid goals. From minute 45-49 we were bombarded by the opposition, the writing was on the wall, how did we respond? we didn`t!
Forget the Scottish Cup, we have numerous cup finals to play in trying to maintain our status as a premier league team.

[QMU-1875]

What is with all the criticism of doyle recently? Have i missed something? Everytime ive seen him he has atleast put the effort in and the goals he has scored for us have been well taken! I feel critiscising him is completely unjustified, Claros on the other hand is absolutely terrible! Worst player on the park the whole game and should of been hooked before their first goal.

[silverhibee]

What is with all the criticism of doyle recently? Have i missed something? Everytime ive seen him he has atleast put the effort in and the goals he has scored for us have been well taken! I feel critiscising him is completely unjustified, Claros on the other hand is absolutely terrible! Worst player on the park the whole game and should of been hooked before their first goal.

Doyle does't play and is on the bench most of the time, you would have to ask the manager why he is not playing him, maybe he doesn't think he is up to playing in the SPL.

[Scouse Hibee]

Doyle does't play and is on the bench most of the time, you would have to ask the manager why he is not playing him, maybe he doesn't think he is up to playing in the SPL.

Doyle is not good enough for the SPL simple as that!

[Emerald]

Doyle is not good enough for the SPL simple as that!

Agree, 1st division or LOI pkayer but thats where we are with a duff jimmy team.

[TowerHibs]

Should have appointed Jimmy Calderwood

[NORTHERNHIBBY]

Don't know if anyone has checked the footie page on freeview that is called " Fenlon wants more self-confidence". At the time of posting, there is a technical hitch that is giving to story 121 pages. When you read it though, it is the same words about lack of desire, over and over and over again. Somebody at the Beeb making a profound statement maybe?

[franco]

Only people to blame is the board for hanging onto that clown calderwood for so long ,I've always said if he'd been punted sooner we wouldn't be where we are now

[Eyrie]

Only people to blame is the board for hanging onto that clown calderwood for so long ,I've always said if he'd been punted sooner we wouldn't be where we are now
Agreed. I wonder if the board have private regrets about not sacking Calderwood and promoting Adams last May?

[Ozyhibby]

I spoke to a couple of the coaching staff this morning and they were adamant that Fenlon is not to blame and that we should stick with him. They both said that the improvement in the training since Calderwood is massive and that Calderwood was a disgrace as a coach (something I think we can all agree on).
However they did say that the atmosphere in the dressing room is disgraceful, verging on poisonous.
If he is to survive in the job then Fenlon will have to root this problem out which will involve getting rid of some senior players and some fans favourites.
They also said that last weeks shenanigans with Griffiths was nothing more than handbags and a little bit of bib throwing.

[Ozyhibby]

Should have appointed Jimmy Calderwood

He would have been my choice. He was appointed manager at Aberdeen at the same time we appointed Mowbray. By the time mowbray left us Calderwood's Aberdeen had accumulated more SPL points than Mowbray's Hibs.

[Hibs90]

Should have appointed Jimmy Calderwood

http://i0.kym-cdn.com/photos/images/original/000/096/044/trollface.jpg?1296494117

[blackpoolhibs]

I spoke to a couple of the coaching staff this morning and they were adamant that Fenlon is not to blame and that we should stick with him. They both said that the improvement in the training since Calderwood is massive and that Calderwood was a disgrace as a coach (something I think we can all agree on).
However they did say that the atmosphere in the dressing room is disgraceful, verging on poisonous.
If he is to survive in the job then Fenlon will have to root this problem out which will involve getting rid of some senior players and some fans favourites.
They also said that last weeks shenanigans with Griffiths was nothing more than handbags and a little bit of bib throwing.

I'm not disagreeing with you, but if we are to believe you and the atmosphere is disgraceful, verging on poisonous, who are these players causing it? :confused:

[Beefster]

I spoke to a couple of the coaching staff this morning and they were adamant that Fenlon is not to blame and that we should stick with him. They both said that the improvement in the training since Calderwood is massive and that Calderwood was a disgrace as a coach (something I think we can all agree on).
However they did say that the atmosphere in the dressing room is disgraceful, verging on poisonous.
If he is to survive in the job then Fenlon will have to root this problem out which will involve getting rid of some senior players and some fans favourites.
They also said that last weeks shenanigans with Griffiths was nothing more than handbags and a little bit of bib throwing.

We have favourites?

[Ozyhibby]

We have favourites?

Fair point

[The_Todd]

Should have appointed Jimmy Calderwood

I said that when we were looking for Yogi's replacement, and I said that when we were looking for Calderwood's replacement. I got shot down mostly.

Still, not ready to write off PF yet.

[Sammy7nil]

I spoke to a couple of the coaching staff this morning and they were adamant that Fenlon is not to blame and that we should stick with him. They both said that the improvement in the training since Calderwood is massive and that Calderwood was a disgrace as a coach (something I think we can all agree on).
However they did say that the atmosphere in the dressing room is disgraceful, verging on poisonous.
If he is to survive in the job then Fenlon will have to root this problem out which will involve getting rid of some senior players and some fans favourites.
They also said that last weeks shenanigans with Griffiths was nothing more than handbags and a little bit of bib throwing.


Who created this atmosphere?

And if that is true Fenlon has emptied several players and brought in several of his "own" so if the atmosphere is that bad Fenlon and his team must take some responsibility.

[Ozyhibby]

Who created this atmosphere?

And if that is true Fenlon has emptied several players and brought in several of his "own" so if the atmosphere is that bad Fenlon and his team must take some responsibility.

Possibly.

[silverhibee]

I spoke to a couple of the coaching staff this morning and they were adamant that Fenlon is not to blame and that we should stick with him. They both said that the improvement in the training since Calderwood is massive and that Calderwood was a disgrace as a coach (something I think we can all agree on).
However they did say that the atmosphere in the dressing room is disgraceful, verging on poisonous.
If he is to survive in the job then Fenlon will have to root this problem out which will involve getting rid of some senior players and some fans favourites.
They also said that last weeks shenanigans with Griffiths was nothing more than handbags and a little bit of bib throwing.


Never heard any complaints from the players that he was a bad coach at any time that he was there, but that wasn't much mind you,.


I thought BB and PF were people who took no crap and would weed out the wasters and get rid of them, anyone being disruptive should be training with the young team, but it seems the manager is letting some players away with things, something did happen last week and it resulted in one of the coaching staff lying on there backside, for that the player should have been left out for the weekends game to show that the manager doesn't take any crap, even if it is just back chat and it sends a message to the rest of the squad that the manager is the boss and he wont be messed with, now some players will think now if Sparky can get away with things then so can they.

[Famous5forever]

Agreed. I wonder if the board have private regrets about not sacking Calderwood and promoting Adams last May?

That in hind sight would have been the best thing to do however we are where we are with Paddy and we need to back Paddy and hope it works out.

[SouthamptonHibs]

Fenlon must do better! He cannae pick a team to win an spl game. board backed him in jan with a some signings. He has had plenty of time to get the team organised and playing well enough to win games.

[smurf]

I spoke to a couple of the coaching staff this morning and they were adamant that Fenlon is not to blame and that we should stick with him. They both said that the improvement in the training since Calderwood is massive and that Calderwood was a disgrace as a coach (something I think we can all agree on).
However they did say that the atmosphere in the dressing room is disgraceful, verging on poisonous.
If he is to survive in the job then Fenlon will have to root this problem out which will involve getting rid of some senior players and some fans favourites.
They also said that last weeks shenanigans with Griffiths was nothing more than handbags and a little bit of bib throwing.

Fans favourites? The lot can go. The entire lot of them.

[ahibby]

Sorry but if Billy Brown doesn't have an affect then there is no point in him being at ER. If he is having and affect then it is a bad one and so there is no point in him being at ER. No matter how you look at it he shouldn't be at ER. He was second to JJ when they went fifteen games with out a win which led to their sacking and yet the Hibs Board thought it would be wise to bring him in. They got it wrong again. Any inlfuence he is having just simply isn't working. Get rid of him first and see what happens. If no change then we have to consider whether PF is the answer and the Boards on trial again. Ozzie and Claros are getting worse so the coaching and motivation must be questionable.

[Peevemor]

Sorry but if Billy Brown doesn't have an affect then there is no point in him being at ER. If he is having and affect then it is a bad one and so there is no point in him being at ER. No matter how you look at it he shouldn't be at ER. He was second to JJ when they went fifteen games with out a win which led to their sacking and yet the Hibs Board thought it would be wise to bring him in. They got it wrong again. Any inlfuence he is having just simply isn't working. Get rid of him first and see what happens. If no change then we have to consider whether PF is the answer and the Boards on trial again. Ozzie and Claros are getting worse so the coaching and motivation must be questionable.

Maybe we'd be even worse without him? You don't know.

[Famous5forever]

Fenlon must do better! He cannae pick a team to win an spl game. board backed him in jan with a some signings. He has had plenty of time to get the team organised and playing well enough to win games.

No he has not had plenty of time the team he inherited was the worst ever in our clubs history Paddy is sorting the mess out now with his new players and slowly transforming the team from the one he inherited to his own team 7 players in yesterdays team were Paddys so he is gradually getting it sorted.
We all accepted Paddy needed time to sort everything out and we are in the cup semi final and a couple of wins from safety in the SPL.

[Captain Trips]

No he has not had plenty of time the team he inherited was the worst ever in our clubs history Paddy is sorting the mess out now with his new players and slowly transforming the team from the one he inherited to his own team 7 players in yesterdays team were Paddys so he is gradually getting it sorted.
We all accepted Paddy needed time to sort everything out and we are in the cup semi final and a couple of wins from safety in the SPL.

Could you not then argue if 7 of the players were his and we still lost that there is a problem? I do not go with this that it is CCs players, they are now all his, CC got away with the exact same argument at his start that it was Yogis players and once he gets in his own we will see a difference.

Pat Fenlon has to improve on our results and prove he is the right man, I am all for giving a manger time, a lot of folk saying he needs 2 or 3 yrs and yes he does but what are we looking for at the end of that 2yr period?

We have to judge a manger on his way to that time and if he is definatly showing us the right signs after 3,6,9-12mths then great, IMO I have seen nothing really change of enough note to suggest at this juncture he will have us in the right place in 2 years. I am just seeing the script of dreadful results with a team of loans like I did 12mths ago a team with no identity at all. I hope to see improvement at 6mths.

[Famous5forever]

Could you not then argue if 7 of the players were his and we still lost that there is a problem? I do not go with this that it is CCs players, they are now all his, CC got away with the exact same argument at his start that it was Yogis players and once he gets in his own we will see a difference.

Pat Fenlon has to improve on our results and prove he is the right man, I am all for giving a manger time, a lot of folk saying he needs 2 or 3 yrs and yes he does but what are we looking for at the end of that 2yr period?

We have to judge a manger on his way to that time and if he is definatly showing us the right signs after 3,6,9-12mths then great, IMO I have seen nothing really change of enough note to suggest at this juncture he will have us in the right place in 2 years. I am just seeing the script of dreadful results with a team of loans like I did 12mths ago a team with no identity at all. I hope to see improvement at 6mths.

Things have to improve and i feel the pressure would be releived with a couple of wins in the SPL Back to Back wins then we could go into the Semi Final more relaxed.

A Slight concern is Dunfermline bringing in an experience Scottish Manageri guess they have rolled the dyce and taken a gamble which i doubt will work for them.

Lets back Paddy to get the job done his remit i guess was to keep us up and a run in the cup which to date he has delivered we are still 3 ahead and a good goal difference which i bet they would love to be in that position rather than 3 behind us.

[Beefster]

Sorry but if Billy Brown doesn't have an affect then there is no point in him being at ER. If he is having and affect then it is a bad one and so there is no point in him being at ER. No matter how you look at it he shouldn't be at ER. He was second to JJ when they went fifteen games with out a win which led to their sacking and yet the Hibs Board thought it would be wise to bring him in. They got it wrong again. Any inlfuence he is having just simply isn't working. Get rid of him first and see what happens. If no change then we have to consider whether PF is the answer and the Boards on trial again. Ozzie and Claros are getting worse so the coaching and motivation must be questionable.

It's bizarre that folk are looking to blame the assistant manager before the manager.

[Sammy7nil]

Maybe we'd be even worse without him? You don't know.

Not really sure that would be possible :confused:

[Jones28]

And for what its worth he never scored 31 and was a penalty taker on a number of occasions so he's not quite the prolific goal scoring midfielder you seem to remember

How many penalties did he take when Riordan was in the same team? Only remember him taking 1, against Hearts at Tynecastle.

[silverhibee]

Maybe we'd be even worse without him? You don't know.


Can we get any worse.

[Sammy7nil]

I heard the precious wee players don't like they way Pat speaks to them. Just like every O'rish person I have met Pat says **** every second word and calls the players the c word when he is unhappy with them.

[Jones28]

Why do some seem to be thinking that Fenlon was going to be a total revelation when he came in? The guy is only human, he has to work in a totally new league with a team he inherited from one of the worst Hibs managers ever. Then he brings in a bunch of new players to try and keep us up. Change takes time, more than most on here seem to want to give him.

[oldbutdim]

I'm stuck at the 'fans favourites' bit.

Is there a helpline or anything?
:confused:

[Expecting Rain]

Even if we avoid relegation, at this rate we`ll be stuck in the bottom 3 for the next couple of years, nobody at the club inspires confidence from top to bottom.

[Eyrie]

That in hind sight would have been the best thing to do however we are where we are with Paddy and we need to back Paddy and hope it works out.

Don't get me wrong - I'm firmly behind Fenlon. He needs the summer to bring in his own signings (as distinct from loans) and the autumn to shape them into a good team.

Worryingly for Fenlon, that means the critical appraisal should start just before the next AGM .... :paranoid:

[HFC 0-7]

Sorry but if Billy Brown doesn't have an affect then there is no point in him being at ER. If he is having and affect then it is a bad one and so there is no point in him being at ER. No matter how you look at it he shouldn't be at ER. He was second to JJ when they went fifteen games with out a win which led to their sacking and yet the Hibs Board thought it would be wise to bring him in. They got it wrong again. Any inlfuence he is having just simply isn't working. Get rid of him first and see what happens. If no change then we have to consider whether PF is the answer and the Boards on trial again. Ozzie and Claros are getting worse so the coaching and motivation must be questionable.

I have said it before and I will say it again, why is bb getting do much criticism? Surely the team follow the managers tactics at games and training. Bb is there to help fenlon and instruct the team during training with felons vision. For some people someone always needs to be blamed and although the managers players aren't performing well, some of his signings aren't looking to hot and his tactics are questionable and we seem to be blaming the assistant! I am having doubts about fenlon now as he has w worse league record than the recent managers before him, even now that he has added to the team. I just don't see what he is trying to do, playing Ozzie out of position for example when he had been performing reasonably well is one example of fenlon not knowing what's going on IMO! I would love to be proved wrong though.

[sesoim]

Even if we avoid relegation, at this rate we`ll be stuck in the bottom 3 for the next couple of years, nobody at the club inspires confidence from top to bottom.


At least if we DO stay up, there will be about a dozen less players at the club than there is now. That creates a bit of leeway for signing new players and shaping a team. I've saw plenty of teams in the SPL (including Hibs) who have went from mince one season to top three the next.

If Fenlon gets his signing right, there shouldn't be any need for "rebuilding" time. We should be able to leapfrog most of the abysmal teams that occupy the SPL. Unfortunately, my confidence in Fenlon's ability to do that is shrinking by the day.

[Spike Mandela]

At least if we DO stay up, there will be about a dozen less players at the club than there is now. That creates a bit of leeway for signing new players and shaping a team. I've saw plenty of teams in the SPL (including Hibs) who have went from mince one season to top three the next.

If Fenlon gets his signing right, there shouldn't be any need for "rebuilding" time. We should be able to leapfrog most of the abysmal teams that occupy the SPL. Unfortunately, my confidence in Fenlon's ability to do that is shrinking by the day.

Yet again with our 4th or 5th biggest budget in the league we are going to have to sign so many players the standard will be diluted massively.

[Famous5forever]

At least if we DO stay up, there will be about a dozen less players at the club than there is now. That creates a bit of leeway for signing new players and shaping a team. I've saw plenty of teams in the SPL (including Hibs) who have went from mince one season to top three the next.

If Fenlon gets his signing right, there shouldn't be any need for "rebuilding" time. We should be able to leapfrog most of the abysmal teams that occupy the SPL. Unfortunately, my confidence in Fenlon's ability to do that is shrinking by the day.

Paddys new players are an improvement than the dross Colin left us that is not in question there has been improvement sinse Paddy took the helm more fight and spirit in the team we need our luck to change a win this week at Inverness would lift everyone at the club.

[The Sea-gull]

Fenlon can only be judged on what he has produced so far and that is not pretty. He does deserve more time if he keeps us up and will have a busy summer on his hands where he has to get a long term plan in and get it right. If we go down I think we should stick with him too but if it looks as though we are struggling for promotion from the 1st division after three or four months, he has to go and be replaced by someone who will get us up. If we are in the SPL next season it is simple - show of improvement = Pat stays; another season where relegation is a real possibility by the turn of the year= Pat goes.

What I don't get are all the "in Pat we trust comments" etc. What has he done on the park to inspire trust? The only thing I am impressed with is the way he handles the media. When he got the job I had misgivings as I felt we needed SPL experience and ultimately if we go down those thoughts will have been correct (before anyone says anything, that scenario would give me no satisfaction whatsoever, do not want Hibs relegated just so I can say I was right to feel that way).

As I knew nothing about him I said I'd support him and still will unless he fails to meet his objectives. I didn't get and still don't the amount of folk who thought Fenlon was a great appointment. They can't all be League of Ireland experts, would imagine most knew nowt about him and it came accross that a lot of people just wanted to believe he was the right man and did so without any foundation or by following the mantra peddled by some in that everything Hibs do is always great and always the right decision.

[Expecting Rain]

At least if we DO stay up, there will be about a dozen less players at the club than there is now. That creates a bit of leeway for signing new players and shaping a team. I've saw plenty of teams in the SPL (including Hibs) who have went from mince one season to top three the next.

If Fenlon gets his signing right, there shouldn't be any need for "rebuilding" time. We should be able to leapfrog most of the abysmal teams that occupy the SPL. Unfortunately, my confidence in Fenlon's ability to do that is shrinking by the day.

Must admit i don`t have a great deal of confidence either, some of the players can`t be that poor. There seems to be a lack of consistency in team selection which creates problems and is exacerbated by playing players out of position, the worse aspect though for me is the fear factor where it looks like we`re scared to either hold onto the ball for more than 2 seconds or make positive runs into the spaces, the only guy i can see playing with any heart or a hint of intelligence is the smallest player on the pitch, the left back.
It is the managers job to get the very best out of what we have got and in doing so not to complicate matters, he should know his best team by now, as far as i`m concerned all of our remaining matches are cup finals, all of the on loan players should be asking why are we out on loan in the first place and others shouldn`t be viewing East Mains a recreation facility. Rant over!

[silverhibee]

Paddys new players are an improvement than the dross Colin left us that is not in question there has been improvement sinse Paddy took the helm more fight and spirit in the team we need our luck to change a win this week at Inverness would lift everyone at the club.


But are they an improvement on CC dross, atleast CC dross managed to go 5 games without defeat and save us from relegation, Paddy's team are struggling to even score a goal in the SPL and are in a relegation battle.

PF team needs to start winning games soon or it will be 1st Division football next season. :aok:

[IWasThere2016]

But are they an improvement on CC dross, atleast CC dross managed to go 5 games without defeat and save us from relegation, Paddy's team are struggling to even score a goal in the SPL and are in a relegation battle.

PF team needs to start winning games soon or it will be 1st Division football next season. :aok:

:agree:

We'd be in an greater mess if it wasn't for those wins at ICT and St Mirren too early this season. Even the last home game v the Arabs was better attended and we scored 3 to get a point! What a bl**dy shambles! :boo hoo:

[James70]

Hate to say it but I think Bobby Williamson would have done a better job organising the available resources.
There would have been zero entertainment certainly but I don't think we're getting too much of that anyway.
Changing the manager again is certainly not an option as the major problem at the club seems to be too much constant change with management and players but the status quo at boardroom level.
Will the directors be taking a pay cut or having their employment terminated along with the players in the event of relegation?

[IWasThere2016]

Hate to say it but I think Bobby Williamson would have done a better job organising the available resources.
There would have been zero entertainment certainly but I don't think we're getting too much of that anyway.
Changing the manager again is certainly not an option as the major problem at the club seems to be too much constant change with management and players but the status quo at boardroom level.
Will the directors be taking a pay cut or having their employment terminated along with the players in the event of relegation?

They have done so ..

However on whether they should still be here - that's another issue and my views on this won't be too diffcult to guess :cb

[Andy74]

:agree:

We'd be in an greater mess if it wasn't for those wins at ICT and St Mirren too early this season. Even the last home game v the Arabs was better attended and we scored 3 to get a point! What a bl**dy shambles! :boo hoo:

So what you are saying is we should thank CC if we stay up? Aye, okay then. :wink:

Fenlon is about the only positive thing I can think of just now and if we chose to go hounding him out then we might as well give up.

[The Sea-gull]

So what you are saying is we should thank CC if we stay up? Aye, okay then. :wink:

Fenlon is about the only positive thing I can think of just now and if we chose to go hounding him out then we might as well give up.

Just an honest question here and am genuinely interested to hear your thoughts but what is it that you see as positive about Fenlon? Either based on what we have seen thus far or on your personal knowledge of him before he got the job.

All I can think of in terms of positives since he has come in is that he identified areas that needed strengthening and did so (the jury is well and truly out on whether he has done this successfully as results suggest he hasn't) and that he has handled the media well. The one or two decent performances on the park have been better than CC's best offerings but the bad performances have been as bad if not worse than CC's worst efforts.

He needs time yet to be properly judged but based on what he has done thus far positive is not an adjective I'd use for him.

[JimBHibees]

Just an honest question here and am genuinely interested to hear your thoughts but what is it that you see as positive about Fenlon? Either based on what we have seen thus far or on your personal knowledge of him before he got the job.

All I can think of in terms of positives since he has come in is that he identified areas that needed strengthening and did so (the jury is well and truly out on whether he has done this successfully as results suggest he hasn't) and that he has handled the media well. The one or two decent performances on the park have been better than CC's best offerings but the bad performances have been as bad if not worse than CC's worst efforts.

He needs time yet to be properly judged but based on what he has done thus far positive is not an adjective I'd use for him.

I think the positives are that he has at least got us competing with teams around us in the league and he has us into the semi final in the cup succeeding in 3 potentially tricky games. We have been well beat by the better teams in the league of that there is no doubt however to me Utd in the second half were as good a team as there is in Scotland at the moment. He needs time and more importantly patience from the fans in this very tricky run to the season end.

We need Soares, Ozzy, Claros to be more at it than they were on Saturday second half that is for sure. The key games are the ones like this Sunday in Inverness.

[Famous5forever]

But are they an improvement on CC dross, atleast CC dross managed to go 5 games without defeat and save us from relegation, Paddy's team are struggling to even score a goal in the SPL and are in a relegation battle.

PF team needs to start winning games soon or it will be 1st Division football next season. :aok:


They looked okay for the first few games but for some reason the performances have deteriorated and on this occasion i just dont know who to blame.

It was easy to blame CC Then the Board but we got rid of CC Not quickly enough but he is still gone and the Board stumped up the cash for the new players in January.

There was for sure an initial improvement the win at Killie plus the Cup Wins but the performances since then have been dissapointing.

I Still feel we have the comfort of Dunfermline being 3 points behind us with inferior goal difference and even if we stumble over the line and stay up by goal difference id take that right now and move on because it would give PF Time to re build for next season and bring in more New/better players and at least get a decent pre season under his belt.

Plus we have the Cup Semi Final to look forward to which i think we will win.:thumbsup:

[SlickShoes]

I am behind Fenlon 100% I am more than happy to give him a few years to sort this out, sadly lots of people want him out the door already.

Mowbray was a complete stroke of luck, no one is coming in again to get us playing like that, it was a total flook of circumstance.

We are in now worse a position now than we would have been had we continued to employ Mixu or Yogi. I am not saying they should not have been sacked but there comes a point when you have to stop sacking your managers after 1 year each and give someone a bit more time to try and stop the rot.

Under Alex Miller we were the worst I had seen us in my life and the best I had seen us in my life, all under one manager, just because we are terrible just now does not necessarily make Pat Fenlon a bad manager, he inherited a **** team with 0 morale and he brought in loan players to try and stop the rot. There was no other option in the January window, actually trying to get in as many players as he did without loans would have been impossible and we would just have the same squad as pre christmas.

I hope we can stay up and then he can build in the summer and steady the ship next season.

[silverhibee]

:agree:

We'd be in an greater mess if it wasn't for those wins at ICT and St Mirren too early this season. Even the last home game v the Arabs was better attended and we scored 3 to get a point! What a bl**dy shambles! :boo hoo:

Simply put TQM.

If it wasn't for the goals that GOC scored in the first half of the season we would be sitting bottom of the table and getting ready for the next great adventure in the 1st Division. Simple as that, Paddy needs to start earning his crust and start to get his team winning games before it is to late. :agree::aok:

[silverhibee]

So what you are saying is we should thank CC if we stay up? Aye, okay then. :wink:

Fenlon is about the only positive thing I can think of just now and if we chose to go hounding him out then we might as well give up.


I think sect43 is the only positive thing at Hibs right now. :aok:

[down the slope]

The trouble is he is learning on the job, he has admitted himself that a relegation fight is a new experience for him and i don't think he appreciated how difficult the SPL would be .

[The Sea-gull]

I think the positives are that he has at least got us competing with teams around us in the league and he has us into the semi final in the cup succeeding in 3 potentially tricky games. We have been well beat by the better teams in the league of that there is no doubt however to me Utd in the second half were as good a team as there is in Scotland at the moment. He needs time and more importantly patience from the fans in this very tricky run to the season end.

We need Soares, Ozzy, Claros to be more at it than they were on Saturday second half that is for sure. The key games are the ones like this Sunday in Inverness.

That is a good point. We have been well beaten by the Old Firm, Motherwell, Utd, St J and Hearts since he came in but that would have happened under CC too and it is unfair to expect a team with so many new signings mid-season to pick up many results against established teams like these. The big problem is haven't picked up any points at all v these teams since Fenlon came in which is poor and the performances have been dreadful to boot.

We have not been great either v St Mirren, ICT, Dunfermline, Killie and Aberdeen but have picked up points and competed. I would say that is more down to the quality of these teams than ourselves. We are maybe playing a bit better than we were under CC v these teams but there ain't a lot in it.

The gulf between the top 6 and the bottom 6 this year is quite definite. This is shown by the fact that the top 6 placings were all but settled with three games to go before the split. The top 6 has the old firm as usual, a couple of clubs who really should be there in Utd and Hearts and a couple of clubs who have used their budgets well and are well run in St J and Well.

The bottom 6 has two clubs (ourselves and Aberdeen) who shouldn't be there but are because they have been poorly run recently and four who don't have big budgets and given their recent history staying in the SPL each season is an achievement of sorts.

Hopefully we can compete and pick up points post split against weaker (though still better than us) teams. We certainly need to.

[Paisley Hibby]

I think the positives are that he has at least got us competing with teams around us in the league and he has us into the semi final in the cup succeeding in 3 potentially tricky games. We have been well beat by the better teams in the league of that there is no doubt however to me Utd in the second half were as good a team as there is in Scotland at the moment. He needs time and more importantly patience from the fans in this very tricky run to the season end.

We need Soares, Ozzy, Claros to be more at it than they were on Saturday second half that is for sure. The key games are the ones like this Sunday in Inverness.

Good post. I think he has signed better players than CC ever managed eg Kujabi and McPake. I also feel that just as we are getting a wee bit of momentum going something happens to slow that down - eg Osbourne being suspended for the derby. I think you are particularly right about him getting us competing with the teams around us. That is what really matters right now. Our performance in the bottom 6 matches to come will need to be much better than that under CC last year and I believe it will be. Of course, if it doesn't work out that way we are ffekked.

[Andy74]

Simply put TQM.

If it wasn't for the goals that GOC scored in the first half of the season we would be sitting bottom of the table and getting ready for the next great adventure in the 1st Division. Simple as that, Paddy needs to start earning his crust and start to get his team winning games before it is to late. :agree::aok:

Perhaps we should have got a lot more points under CC at the start of the season and perhaps he should have signed us better players and at least one decent defender?

If it wasn't for Fenlon's wins away at Dunfermline (who beat CC's team at home) and recently at Kilmarnock we would also be comfortably bottom.

[hopefulhibby]

I am behind Fenlon 100% I am more than happy to give him a few years to sort this out, sadly lots of people want him out the door already.

Mowbray was a complete stroke of luck, no one is coming in again to get us playing like that, it was a total flook of circumstance.

We are in now worse a position now than we would have been had we continued to employ Mixu or Yogi. I am not saying they should not have been sacked but there comes a point when you have to stop sacking your managers after 1 year each and give someone a bit more time to try and stop the rot.

Under Alex Miller we were the worst I had seen us in my life and the best I had seen us in my life, all under one manager, just because we are terrible just now does not necessarily make Pat Fenlon a bad manager, he inherited a **** team with 0 morale and he brought in loan players to try and stop the rot. There was no other option in the January window, actually trying to get in as many players as he did without loans would have been impossible and we would just have the same squad as pre christmas.

I hope we can stay up and then he can build in the summer and steady the ship next season.

Pat Fenlon will bring us to our knees he is not equipped for this job at all if you look at how he brought Shelbourne and Bohemians to there knees, Shelbourne are only back in the top flight this season and Bohemians are sitting at the bottom of the league thanks to the mess that PF left behind, lets look at a few truths about what PF has done in his short time at Hibs, Callum Booth maybe our best player last season PF does not fancy him why?, has brought in 2nd rate players and now we are shipping more goals than ever, Claros (el pittbull) PF was conned with this lad, Matt Doherty could not get a game at Bohemians and yet he is now playing for Hibs IN THE SPL, Roy o Donovan 9clubs in 5yrs, Eion Doyle is he any better than what we had, James McPake pass marks only, Kujabi hot and cold to say the least, Francombe no better than what we had, also look how PF handled the griffiths situation PFgets a face full of bib and BB gets a slap so what does PF do, he starts Griffiths on sat on the other hand Martin Scott has a bit of a rant and gets suspended without pay, now what sot of message is that sending to the players, the message is that PF is out of his depth, last season we had a great run of 6 wins on the bounce that will not happen with PF because he is clueless at this level and cannot get the respect of the players, as for his assistants BB applied for the job and got turned down in favour of PF so it will be 2 fingers from him to the club if we are relagated, PF was manager of a part time team in Dublin he is never in a million years able to manage or attract the players we have or need at Hibernian FC, so thanks for the bad memories and its time to pack up and go

[At The Edge]

Pat Fenlon will bring us to our knees he is not equipped for this job at all if you look at how he brought Shelbourne and Bohemians to there knees, Shelbourne are only back in the top flight this season and Bohemians are sitting at the bottom of the league thanks to the mess that PF left behind, lets look at a few truths about what PF has done in his short time at Hibs, Callum Booth maybe our best player last season PF does not fancy him why?, has brought in 2nd rate players and now we are shipping more goals than ever, Claros (el pittbull) PF was conned with this lad, Matt Doherty could not get a game at Bohemians and yet he is now playing for Hibs IN THE SPL, Roy o Donovan 9clubs in 5yrs, Eion Doyle is he any better than what we had, James McPake pass marks only, Kujabi hot and cold to say the least, Francombe no better than what we had, also look how PF handled the griffiths situation PFgets a face full of bib and BB gets a slap so what does PF do, he starts Griffiths on sat on the other hand Martin Scott has a bit of a rant and gets suspended without pay, now what sot of message is that sending to the players, the message is that PF is out of his depth, last season we had a great run of 6 wins on the bounce that will not happen with PF because he is clueless at this level and cannot get the respect of the players, as for his assistants BB applied for the job and got turned down in favour of PF so it will be 2 fingers from him to the club if we are relagated, PF was manager of a part time team in Dublin he is never in a million years able to manage or attract the players we have or need at Hibernian FC, so thanks for the bad memories and its time to pack up and go

Hmmmm....not sure if Yogi, CC or Jimmy Scott has just joined!:wink:

[Famous5forever]

Hmmmm....not sure if Yogi, CC or Jimmy Scott has just joined!:wink:

From the tone of the rant and the spelling id guess its Yogi :cb

[Hibernia&Alba]

IMO, we owe it to Pat to give him our full support for the remainder of the season and then let's see where we stand. His only target in my eyes is survival, and if he keeps us up, he's succeeded this season. The cup run, for all its excitement, is a sideshow next to survival. If we retain our SPL status, Pat has then earned the right to re-build this summer and to try to move the team forward next season. He inherited a shambles, and I don't envy him the massive task he has on his hands. Keep us up, that's all I ask. If, however, we prove incapable of finishing above this terrible Dunfermline side, Pat will have failed in the one criterion that really counts and must go. Yes, that would mean yet more upheaval and instability as a yet another new man arrived, and it may ssem harsh, but there is a minimum standard required at a club like Hibernian, even in the short term and when there are deep-rooted problems at the club. Being in the SPL is that standard. Keep us up,Pat, and earn the right to build your own team for next season.

[Spike Mandela]

Good post. I think he has signed better players than CC ever managed eg Kujabi and McPake. I also feel that just as we are getting a wee bit of momentum going something happens to slow that down - eg Osbourne being suspended for the derby. I think you are particularly right about him getting us competing with the teams around us. That is what really matters right now. Our performance in the bottom 6 matches to come will need to be much better than that under CC last year and I believe it will be. Of course, if it doesn't work out that way we are ffekked.

This time last year people were raving about Palsson, Thornhill and sodje.

In fairness we could probably do with Sodje for the relegation battle.

[muirhousehibby]

I have said it before and I will say it again, why is bb getting do much criticism? Surely the team follow the managers tactics at games and training. Bb is there to help fenlon and instruct the team during training with felons vision. For some people someone always needs to be blamed and although the managers players aren't performing well, some of his signings aren't looking to hot and his tactics are questionable and we seem to be blaming the assistant! I am having doubts about fenlon now as he has w worse league record than the recent managers before him, even now that he has added to the team. I just don't see what he is trying to do, playing Ozzie out of position for example when he had been performing reasonably well is one example of fenlon not knowing what's going on IMO! I would love to be proved wrong though.



Spot on about Osbourne, add to that others that at are played well out of position too. And claros has still not proved to me he should be in the team.
we had better but Pat Fenlon has let them go for only reason's he knows.

Same subs on most weeks too, no natural width in the team. Strikers playing far to far apart. And team playing too deep!
Things are not heading in the right direction and if you take the rumours of training ground bust up and look at saturdays game everyone was flat and certainly looked like they just weren't interested.

Summer signings is a must and i'm backing Pat to get it right but with low crowds, relegation a possiblity, player unrest will he see past the end of season time will tell. The booing hasn't come yet but no doubt that'll be close.

Irish football

And league of ireland is roughly scottish league 2 standard. Alot of good young players in it and will get stronger as years go on maybe. Some Stadiums are very poor and with small crowds. Costs between £10-13 per adult. The IFA League is also very poor I'm back over in 2 weeks again and will take a few pics of either cliftonville or crusader facilities for everyone.

[Andy74]

Oh dear.

[Hibernia Na Eir]

Spot on about Osbourne, add to that others that at are played well out of position too. And claros has still not proved to me he should be in the team.
we had better but Pat Fenlon has let them go for only reason's he knows.

Same subs on most weeks too, no natural width in the team. Strikers playing far to far apart. And team playing too deep!
Things are not heading in the right direction and if you take the rumours of training ground bust up and look at saturdays game everyone was flat and certainly looked like they just weren't interested.

Summer signings is a must and i'm backing Pat to get it right but with low crowds, relegation a possiblity, player unrest will he see past the end of season time will tell. The booing hasn't come yet but no doubt that'll be close.

Irish football

And league of ireland is roughly scottish league 2 standard. Alot of good young players in it and will get stronger as years go on maybe. Stadiums are very poor and with small crowds. Costs between £10-13 per adult. I'm back over in 2 weeks again and will take a few pics of either cliftonville or crusader facilities for everyone.

I may be wrong but, I'm not sure either Cliftonville and Crusaders play LOI.

[Alfred E Newman]

I may be wrong but, I'm not sure either Cliftonville and Crusaders play LOI.

No you are right. Cliftonville play in Belfast!

[pogo]

No you are right. Cliftonville play in Belfast!

Both teams play in Belfast, in the IFA Premiership. League of Ireland is run by the FAI. This is the league that Pat managed in, with Shelbourne, Derry City ( didn't do too well in his short spell there ), and Bohemians. He had a lot of success with both Shels and Bohs, and despite what an earlier poster was saying about him being to blame for recent problems with both clubs, a complete fallacy. The Bohs problem stemmed from them selling their stadium, using the money from it, and then finding that there were problems with ownership of access ways to the ground. As a result, the entire first team were released, leaving Pat with a handful of U19's. With only a couple of week's til the start of the season he put together a team that finished a very credible 3rd in the league. He is extremely well respected over here, and I think that given time, will do a good job for us.

GGTTH

[IWasThere2016]

Perhaps we should have got a lot more points under CC at the start of the season and perhaps he should have signed us better players and at least one decent defender?

If it wasn't for Fenlon's wins away at Dunfermline (who beat CC's team at home) and recently at Kilmarnock we would also be comfortably bottom.

Where was this valuable insight 18 months ago when you could've substituted Yogi for CC and CC for Fenton? :wink:

The facts are (according to the press today) that in 16 games PF has 2 wins and 3 draws or 9 points from a possible 48. A poorer record than the much mocked CC. Where's a five straight wins when we need them???

[The_Horde]

When are folk going to realise that we can't just keep changing managers? They canny all be pish, the main problem is the fact that we have an entire new dressing room every season, management included. This needs to change, the club needs stability and the management team need a good 2 seasons at least to sort this mess out. Even if we go down.

:pfgwa

[The_Horde]

Spot on about Osbourne, add to that others that at are played well out of position too. And claros has still not proved to me he should be in the team.
we had better but Pat Fenlon has let them go for only reason's he knows.

Same subs on most weeks too, no natural width in the team. Strikers playing far to far apart. And team playing too deep!
Things are not heading in the right direction and if you take the rumours of training ground bust up and look at saturdays game everyone was flat and certainly looked like they just weren't interested.

Summer signings is a must and i'm backing Pat to get it right but with low crowds, relegation a possiblity, player unrest will he see past the end of season time will tell. The booing hasn't come yet but no doubt that'll be close.

Irish football

And league of ireland is roughly scottish league 2 standard. Alot of good young players in it and will get stronger as years go on maybe. Some Stadiums are very poor and with small crowds. Costs between £10-13 per adult. The IFA League is also very poor I'm back over in 2 weeks again and will take a few pics of either cliftonville or crusader facilities for everyone.

Who?

As for the players being played out of position, whilst i agree we should be playing them in their proper positions normally, i would put forth the argument that maybe they are the best options we have for those positions because the other options are simply not good enough.

[Lucius Apuleius]

Simply put TQM.

If it wasn't for the goals that GOC scored in the first half of the season we would be sitting bottom of the table and getting ready for the next great adventure in the 1st Division. Simple as that, Paddy needs to start earning his crust and start to get his team winning games before it is to late. :agree::aok:

Absolutely. And see if these pesky Dunfermline players hadn't scraped all these lucky 1-1 draws, we would be well clear of them.
I just cannot get my f'n heid round if if if if if. A league is played over a season. We win, they win, we lose they lose. Team with least points at the end go down. How the heck things can be pinned on one person scoring a couple of goals I am blowed if I know. Who is to say we would not have had someone else score in the same games? Oh, because now we have nobody to score goals!!!! Bollox Silver and you know it mate.

[Captain Trips]

;3161767']When are folk going to realise that we can't just keep changing managers? They canny all be pish, the main problem is the fact that we have an entire new dressing room every season, management included. This needs to change, the club needs stability and the management team need a good 2 seasons at least to sort this mess out. Even if we go down.

:pfgwa

I would agree however if they need 2 years they really now need to make sure they are finding good enough players whom are signing for 2/3 years. There is no point in giving PF 2 years and all the players he signs are for 6/12/18mths as at the 2 year point he will be rebuilding again.

[Famous5forever]

I would agree however if they need 2 years they really now need to make sure they are finding good enough players whom are signing for 2/3 years. There is no point in giving PF 2 years and all the players he signs are for 6/12/18mths as at the 2 year point he will be rebuilding again.

We seem to be in a cycle now that goes like we bring in 7 or 8 players every january, new manager every November old manager sacked pre AGM and avoid relegation by the skin of our teeth.

This cycle has to be broken Paddy needs time at least 2 years to sort out the mess he inherited.:pfgwa

[mcfly]

[QUOTE=hopefulhibby;3161503]Pat Fenlon will bring us to our knees he is not equipped for this job at all if you look at how he brought Shelbourne and Bohemians to there knees, Shelbourne are only back in the top flight this season and Bohemians are sitting at the bottom of the league thanks to the mess that PF left behind, lets look at a few truths about what PF has done in his short time at Hibs, Callum Booth maybe our best player last season PF does not fancy him why?, has brought in 2nd rate players and now we are shipping more goals than ever, Claros (el pittbull) PF was conned with this lad, Matt Doherty could not get a game at Bohemians and yet he is now playing for Hibs IN THE SPL, Roy o Donovan 9clubs in 5yrs, Eion Doyle is he any better than what we had, James McPake pass marks only, Kujabi hot and cold to say the least, Francombe no better than what we had, also look how PF handled the griffiths situation PFgets a face full of bib and BB gets a slap so what does PF do, he starts Griffiths on sat on the other hand Martin Scott has a bit of a rant and gets suspended without pay, now what sot of message is that sending to the players, the message is that PF is out of his depth, last season we had a great run of 6 wins on the bounce that will not happen with PF because he is clueless at this level and cannot get the respect of the players, as for his assistants BB applied for the job and got turned down in favour of PF so it will be 2 fingers from him to the club if we are relagated, PF was manager of a part time team in Dublin he is never in a million years able to manage or attract the players we have or need at Hibernian FC, so thanks for the bad memories and its time to pack up and go[/QUOT

Hopeful hibby what a terrible post. Give the man a chance. Hibs don't need so called fans like you. Why don't you pack up and go. Disgraceful post from a hibs fan. Why don't we all back the club just like the rangers fans have backed theirs. Yes I'm saying that they are united behind their team. Our team needs us now more than ever but not fans like hopeful hibby!!!!

[Captain Trips]

We seem to be in a cycle now that goes like we bring in 7 or 8 players every january, new manager every November old manager sacked pre AGM and avoid relegation by the skin of our teeth.

This cycle has to be broken Paddy needs time at least 2 years to sort out the mess he inherited.:pfgwa

He does need time and will get it certainly from me if he and the club are looking at breaking that cycle if it is more short term stuff we will have another bad season and a new manger will be getting looked for. PF does need to sort mess I do not want him adding to it, in summer we will see exactly what the plans are, however I do not buy this is CCs team it is PFs now he has to take ownership of all results and at this juncture they are poor.

[HFC 0-7]

We seem to be in a cycle now that goes like we bring in 7 or 8 players every january, new manager every November old manager sacked pre AGM and avoid relegation by the skin of our teeth.

This cycle has to be broken Paddy needs time at least 2 years to sort out the mess he inherited.:pfgwa

I dont know where this 'he needs at least 2 years' stuff comes from. Everyone keeps telling us long contracts are a thing of the past and short term deals with loan signings are the way it is now. if thats the case we will be re building every year. Facts are, in football, you need to hit the ground running, Fenlon hasnt, and I bet if you asked him he would have expected to be well clear of this every season. He also knows what the targets are each season, Europe and latter stages of the cup. If he wants to do the job that was set out for him then he needs to hit the ground running, he will know this as well.

I agree the cycle needs to be broken but I dont think it should be broken just for the sake of it, it needs to be with the right manager in charge. I am all for giving Fenlon more time, but not 2 years! He hasnt proved anything that he is worthy of us letting him have 2 more years in the hope that he will turn things around. There needs to be signs of improvement, IMO, there hasnt been any. We are still in a relegation battle with terrible performances and players playing out of position.

Fenlons league record is worse than Jim Duffys, he has taken only 19% of points on offer when Duff jimmy took 28%. I am pretty sure we heard the same when CC was in charge, he must be given time, he must be given at least 2 years to sort out Yogi's mess etc etc!

A balance needs to be struck, if he shows signs that he is good then he should be given time, if he isnt showing any signs then his position needs to be looked at.

[Famous5forever]

I dont know where this 'he needs at least 2 years' stuff comes from. Everyone keeps telling us long contracts are a thing of the past and short term deals with loan signings are the way it is now. if thats the case we will be re building every year. Facts are, in football, you need to hit the ground running, Fenlon hasnt, and I bet if you asked him he would have expected to be well clear of this every season. He also knows what the targets are each season, Europe and latter stages of the cup. If he wants to do the job that was set out for him then he needs to hit the ground running, he will know this as well.

I agree the cycle needs to be broken but I dont think it should be broken just for the sake of it, it needs to be with the right manager in charge. I am all for giving Fenlon more time, but not 2 years! He hasnt proved anything that he is worthy of us letting him have 2 more years in the hope that he will turn things around. There needs to be signs of improvement, IMO, there hasnt been any. We are still in a relegation battle with terrible performances and players playing out of position.

Fenlons league record is worse than Jim Duffys, he has taken only 19% of points on offer when Duff jimmy took 28%. I am pretty sure we heard the same when CC was in charge, he must be given time, he must be given at least 2 years to sort out Yogi's mess etc etc!

A balance needs to be struck, if he shows signs that he is good then he should be given time, if he isnt showing any signs then his position needs to be looked at.


It is not fair to compare PF With Duffy in percentage terms as Duffy had a lot more time/games as Manager i agree the Cycle has to be broken and 2 years to prove he can turn us round is fair but i see your point if there is no improvement and indeed things deteriorate then the only other option is drastic which would involve sacking PF And bringing in someone like Jimmy Calderwood to save us, Relegation is not an option in my opinion.

[Gatecrasher]

In one hand we need consistancy in order to bring some stability into the club, In the other hand we need results now.
Previous managerial replacements didnt bring the results required and were shown the door which leads me to believe whatever happens this season (survival or not), we need to give Paddy some space and time to do his own thing and allow him to bring some sort of stability to the club.

[muirhousehibby]

;3161771']Who?

As for the players being played out of position, whilst i agree we should be playing them in their proper positions normally, i would put forth the argument that maybe they are the best options we have for those positions because the other options are simply not good enough.

For me Victor Palsson, Matt Thornhill were better than some either still at hibs or playing now.

[Aubenas]

Bohemians are sitting at the bottom of the league thanks to the mess that PF left behind

Some mess: his record last season was
Bohemians 36 17 9 10 39 27 +12 60
This was with a team of youngsters as the club had gone virtually bankrupt at the start of the season, so that Fenlon, and some players, worked without wages for weeks on end.
They came fifth in the League, qualifiying for Europa Cup.
The season ended just as he came to us before Christmas - it's a summer league in Ireland.

If this was a mess, it's a mess Hibs would love to be in.

Bohs are bottom just now, after 4 games of the new season, because they have even fewer resources than last season.

Fenlon worked a miracle there last season.
But hey, let's not let facts get in the way of opinions. :rolleyes:

[SteveHFC]

http://www.thescottishsun.co.uk/scotsol/homepage/sport/spl/4226261/They-will-be-Hibee-if-we-drop.html

[frazeHFC]

I think sect43 is the only positive thing at Hibs right now. :aok:


:flag:

[JimBHibees]

For me Victor Palsson, Matt Thornhill were better than some either still at hibs or playing now.

They certainly hid it well.

[Captain Trips]

I do not think a manager is going to get 2/3 yrs to get to a point that is deemed good enough, football teams need results now, next week a manager getting that long will naturally be doing ok so if PF is here in 2yrs it will be due to him doing well all the way through his tenure.

CC might have been great next season but judging him on what he was doing to the point he went he was not doing well enough presently. PF as with any manager must be doing well to get to 2/3 yrs.

I can only judge the guy on what he is doing not what I hope he will do, I want to see more improvement in results even with this squad I want him to show how he is better than CC, in summer he should be backed 100% by club and look to build for a european spot, if during next season it is looking like we will not finish 3rd/4th he should be removed. That is where we have to be not in 2,3 or 4 years but next season, tough job but that is what needs done.

I hope that PF can show he is 100% the guy for this.

[Kato]

For me Victor Palsson, Matt Thornhill were better than some either still at hibs or playing now.

Maybe when they played for you, but when they played for Hibs they were posted missing.

[Famous5forever]

I do not think a manager is going to get 2/3 yrs to get to a point that is deemed good enough, football teams need results now, next week a manager getting that long will naturally be doing ok so if PF is here in 2yrs it will be due to him doing well all the way through his tenure.

CC might have been great next season but judging him on what he was doing to the point he went he was not doing well enough presently. PF as with any manager must be doing well to get to 2/3 yrs.

I can only judge the guy on what he is doing not what I hope he will do, I want to see more improvement in results even with this squad I want him to show how he is better than CC, in summer he should be backed 100% by club and look to build for a european spot, if during next season it is looking like we will not finish 3rd/4th he should be removed. That is where we have to be not in 2,3 or 4 years but next season, tough job but that is what needs done.

I hope that PF can show he is 100% the guy for this.

This is exactly what we have done with the last 2 incumbeants as soon as it goes wrong AGM Looms out the door it was all his fault lots of sorrys we got it wrong and it wont happen again.

Good or Bad we have to see this one through PF Has stated in todays press Record and Sun The players are afraid and nervous when we play at Home and they must stand up to this and accept the blame for these string of poor results.
Away from home we play much better and PF Says it shows, it is not PFs fault it is the players PF Needs time to change this mindset clear out the dead wood bring in stronger New Players who are up to the challenge.
If results dont improve and PF Is sacked we will be back to square one or worse any new Manager taking over would be on a suicide mission.
Lets give PF at least 2 years to turn us round we are at the bottom now it cant get any worse we move forward now with Paddy and our support. :pfgwa

[Captain Trips]

This is exactly what we have done with the last 2 incumbeants as soon as it goes wrong AGM Looms out the door it was all his fault lots of sorrys we got it wrong and it wont happen again.

Good or Bad we have to see this one through PF Has stated in todays press Record and Sun The players are afraid and nervous when we play at Home and they must stand up to this and accept the blame for these string of poor results.
Away from home we play much better and PF Says it shows, it is not PFs fault it is the players PF Needs time to change this mindset clear out the dead wood bring in stronger New Players who are up to the challenge.
If results dont improve and PF Is sacked we will be back to square one or worse any new Manager taking over would be on a suicide mission.
Lets give PF at least 2 years to turn us round we are at the bottom now it cant get any worse we move forward now with Paddy and our support. :pfgwa

It is no use you are right in changing managers all the time but it is also no use in keeping one whom is doing badly with the hope of just saying give him 2 years, the bits in bold if they happened would that not be justification for changing? If results are bad why would you be looking 18mths down the line in thinking he is right man?

The manager has to be judged on the results, this league is not good enough IMO to allow a manager to take 2yrs to build a team and just wait the 2 years. A manager needs time at a club but they buy their own time by showing improvement, it would be mental to give him 2yrs almost for sake of it, if he gets 2yrs it will be because he earned it with his performance and that is what I hope happens.

I may be wrong but reading your post it seems like you think give him 2yrs no matter what, is that right?
If not what would be your level to say you think he isnt up to it?

[Famous5forever]

It is no use you are right in changing managers all the time but it is also no use in keeping one whom is doing badly with the hope of just saying give him 2 years, the bits in bold if they happened would that not be justification for changing? If results are bad why would you be looking 18mths down the line in thinking he is right man?

The manager has to be judged on the results, this league is not good enough IMO to allow a manager to take 2yrs to build a team and just wait the 2 years. A manager needs time at a club but they buy their own time by showing improvement, it would be mental to give him 2yrs almost for sake of it, if he gets 2yrs it will be because he earned it with his performance and that is what I hope happens.

I may be wrong but reading your post it seems like you think give him 2yrs no matter what, is that right?
If not what would be your level to say you think he isnt up to it?

I Refer to your point in bold in in all honesty i must say there has not been much improvement in fact results on a like for like basis in the league are worse than when CC Was in charge.

But my point is we may take a downward spiral before we get better PF Has started the process of clearing out the dross but he can only do this at every transfer window to date he has had one go at it, another 3 goes would that not be worth it to turn everything round.
That would give PF A 2 Year plan to be fair he tried everything to get players in at the last window i really cant see what more he could have done.
PF Is slowly getting rid of the dross left by CC And Yogi and its not a 6 months or a years job his remit i am guessing was to keep us up, good cup run, then rebuild for next season in the summer window he can bring in more/better players and gradually empty the last of the dross.

[Andy74]

From EN today


The pressure may be relentlessly building on everyone at Easter Road, but today Hibs fans were assured the one man who won’t crack is boss Pat Fenlon.


The Irishman was brought in last November to replace Colin Calderwood but has so far failed to turn the Edinburgh club around, boasting a record of just two wins in 16 SPL matches which leaves Hibs a mere three points above basement outfit Dunfermline.

There’s no escaping the fact Fenlon and his players are embroiled in a desperate battle to survive in the top flight of Scottish football but winning that fight will be, according to first team coach Liam O’Brien, only the first step for his countryman. O’Brien watched Fenlon enjoy success after success in Ireland, being his long-time assistant at Bohemians before teaming up again with him on this side of “the water.”

And, although it’s been a rocky road so far, O’Brien insisted Fenlon won’t be deflected from his aim of bringing far happier times back to Easter Road.

In an exclusive interview with the Evening News, he said: “Pat and I have worked together for the last five years. He’s a very strong character and I think people know he is a winner, his record speaks for itself.

“The one thing about Pat is his attention to detail, it’s second to none, everything his done properly, professionally.

“He is a good man and, given time, he will turn this club around. In my opinion, people have to stick with him. He has won a lot in his managerial career, a lot of trophies. He’s been used to winning, not losing.”

Fenlon, of course, became Hibs’ fifth manager in as many years, the Easter Road merry-go-round having seen John Collins, Mixu Paatelainen, John Hughes and Calderwood all depart almost as quickly as they’d arrived.

The lack of stability in the managerial hotseat has been seen by many as a major factor behind Hibs’ current predicament, each move resulting in a “changing of the guard” as a phalanx of new players has arrived to replace those already in place. Fenlon himself has overseen an overhaul of the squad he inherited from Calderwood, most of those brought in being on loan deals with the over-riding priority being to ensure Hibs retain their SPL status before plans for the longer term can be realised.

And, while results may suggest otherwise, 47-year-old O’Brien firmly believes the management team of Fenlon, Billy Brown and himself, have improved the team. Consistency, though, remains somewhat elusive, O’Brien admitting he’d felt the corner had been turned a couple of weeks ago only for defeats by Hearts and Dundee United to plunge supporters into the depths of despair once more.

The former Manchester United, Newcastle United and Republic of Ireland defender said: “Pat was given the job because results were poor with the group of players that was here. He has made a few changes and I think we have improved them.

“We have not had that rub of the green in some games, against Aberdeen and St Mirren for instance, we felt we should have won both games rather than draw them, then we’d have an extra four points.

“But we have improved them and if we keep working hard as a group then, at the end of the season, I think we will be okay.

“Before the Hearts game, I thought we had turned the corner. We had a great result away to Kilmarnock and then, even although they are a division below us, we put on a really good performance against Ayr United. We went into the Hearts match with a bit of confidence but we didn’t really turn up in the first half. We changed things around, had a word with them at half-time and, in the second half, we were unlucky not to score while they didn’t really threaten our goal until the last 15 minutes when we were pushing forward.

“Go back to last Saturday, being realistic Dundee United are the form team in the league at the moment, they are second only to Celtic in the way they have been playing. They’ve had a settled side, Peter Houston has been able to pick the same team week in, week out.

“They are very good but in the first half we matched them and were probably a little bit better than them, In the second half they upped their game and we did not match them which was the disappointing thing for us.

“Realistically, we are probably not good enough for the top six but we are capable of beating the teams in and around us so every game we have from now on is a cup final – and we have a semi-final to look forward to as well, a day at Hampden.”

Results such as those suffered at the hands of Hearts and Dundee United have seen Hibs branded in some quarters as ‘hapless’, ‘hopeless’, ‘gutless’ or ‘spineless’, none of which, as O’Brien admitted, makes for particularly pleasant reading.

He argued, though, that praise has been in short supply on other occasions. “It’s not nice reading that sort of stuff and sometimes we have not had enough credit given to us when we have won games. People are entitled to their opinions, but it’s not about them but us. If you read the reports and go listening to people you’d think this place is down, that it’s all doom and gloom but if you were at our training sessions you’d see the players are up.

“What we need is everyone together, the staff, the players, the supporters. We know we are in a relegation fight, I have been there myself as a player a couple of times and we do need everyone together.”

Adding extra spice to the relegation duel was the arrival of Jim Jefferies at East End Park, the former Hearts manager taking over from the sacked Jim McIntyre, his first match in charge a 1-1 draw with St Mirren trimming Hibs’ advantage from four points to three.

O’Brien, however, believes that while Jefferies’ appointment will no doubt have helped fray the nerves of Hibs fans just that little bit more, it will be no distraction to the Hibs management team. He said: “It’s still the same group of players over there, that hasn’t changed.

“What goes on at Dunfermline is their concern, we just have to concentrate on Hibs. Our job is to keep this club in the SPL and hopefully then we can kick on next season.” O’Brien knows from his time with Newcastle just how a club’s fortunes can be transformed in a relatively short period of time. Having been relegated to what is now the Championship, the Tyneside club were just one game away from falling even further, but defeated Leicester City at Filbert Street on the final day of season 1992/93.

He said: “There was all the euphoria, everyone thrilled at staying up. Then, with virtually the same group of players although Kevin Keegan had brought a couple of new faces in, we won the league the next season. You never know what can happen in football.”

O’Brien wasn’t suggesting for one minute that Hibs will do likewise but he insisted there was a common thread to the story in that to regard success as merely avoiding relegation for clubs of their stature was simply unacceptable.

He said: “This is a massive club, everything is here, the stadium, the training centre, great facilities. What is needed is a good team on the park.”

Amid it all there is one thing of which O’Brien is certain, Fenlon won’t buckle in the face of adversity, or even give walking away a second thought.

He said: “Pat is a very deep person, he keeps a lot inside himself. He won’t let himself go as much as he should do, if I am being honest. Knowing the way he is I don’t think all this will affect him as it would other people.

“He believes in himself, the players he has brought here and those that were already here, that they are good enough to get us out of this situation.

“That’s what we have to do, concentrate on staying in this league and you will see a different Pat Fenlon next season. He is not a quitter, no way. He’s done very well in Ireland and, let’s be clear, the one thing about him is he’s focused on doing well here.

“He will want to turn things around and given time he will. Believe me.”

[JimBHibees]

From EN today


The pressure may be relentlessly building on everyone at Easter Road, but today Hibs fans were assured the one man who won’t crack is boss Pat Fenlon.


The Irishman was brought in last November to replace Colin Calderwood but has so far failed to turn the Edinburgh club around, boasting a record of just two wins in 16 SPL matches which leaves Hibs a mere three points above basement outfit Dunfermline.

There’s no escaping the fact Fenlon and his players are embroiled in a desperate battle to survive in the top flight of Scottish football but winning that fight will be, according to first team coach Liam O’Brien, only the first step for his countryman. O’Brien watched Fenlon enjoy success after success in Ireland, being his long-time assistant at Bohemians before teaming up again with him on this side of “the water.”

And, although it’s been a rocky road so far, O’Brien insisted Fenlon won’t be deflected from his aim of bringing far happier times back to Easter Road.

In an exclusive interview with the Evening News, he said: “Pat and I have worked together for the last five years. He’s a very strong character and I think people know he is a winner, his record speaks for itself.

“The one thing about Pat is his attention to detail, it’s second to none, everything his done properly, professionally.

“He is a good man and, given time, he will turn this club around. In my opinion, people have to stick with him. He has won a lot in his managerial career, a lot of trophies. He’s been used to winning, not losing.”

Fenlon, of course, became Hibs’ fifth manager in as many years, the Easter Road merry-go-round having seen John Collins, Mixu Paatelainen, John Hughes and Calderwood all depart almost as quickly as they’d arrived.

The lack of stability in the managerial hotseat has been seen by many as a major factor behind Hibs’ current predicament, each move resulting in a “changing of the guard” as a phalanx of new players has arrived to replace those already in place. Fenlon himself has overseen an overhaul of the squad he inherited from Calderwood, most of those brought in being on loan deals with the over-riding priority being to ensure Hibs retain their SPL status before plans for the longer term can be realised.

And, while results may suggest otherwise, 47-year-old O’Brien firmly believes the management team of Fenlon, Billy Brown and himself, have improved the team. Consistency, though, remains somewhat elusive, O’Brien admitting he’d felt the corner had been turned a couple of weeks ago only for defeats by Hearts and Dundee United to plunge supporters into the depths of despair once more.

The former Manchester United, Newcastle United and Republic of Ireland defender said: “Pat was given the job because results were poor with the group of players that was here. He has made a few changes and I think we have improved them.

“We have not had that rub of the green in some games, against Aberdeen and St Mirren for instance, we felt we should have won both games rather than draw them, then we’d have an extra four points.

“But we have improved them and if we keep working hard as a group then, at the end of the season, I think we will be okay.

“Before the Hearts game, I thought we had turned the corner. We had a great result away to Kilmarnock and then, even although they are a division below us, we put on a really good performance against Ayr United. We went into the Hearts match with a bit of confidence but we didn’t really turn up in the first half. We changed things around, had a word with them at half-time and, in the second half, we were unlucky not to score while they didn’t really threaten our goal until the last 15 minutes when we were pushing forward.

“Go back to last Saturday, being realistic Dundee United are the form team in the league at the moment, they are second only to Celtic in the way they have been playing. They’ve had a settled side, Peter Houston has been able to pick the same team week in, week out.

“They are very good but in the first half we matched them and were probably a little bit better than them, In the second half they upped their game and we did not match them which was the disappointing thing for us.

“Realistically, we are probably not good enough for the top six but we are capable of beating the teams in and around us so every game we have from now on is a cup final – and we have a semi-final to look forward to as well, a day at Hampden.”

Results such as those suffered at the hands of Hearts and Dundee United have seen Hibs branded in some quarters as ‘hapless’, ‘hopeless’, ‘gutless’ or ‘spineless’, none of which, as O’Brien admitted, makes for particularly pleasant reading.

He argued, though, that praise has been in short supply on other occasions. “It’s not nice reading that sort of stuff and sometimes we have not had enough credit given to us when we have won games. People are entitled to their opinions, but it’s not about them but us. If you read the reports and go listening to people you’d think this place is down, that it’s all doom and gloom but if you were at our training sessions you’d see the players are up.

“What we need is everyone together, the staff, the players, the supporters. We know we are in a relegation fight, I have been there myself as a player a couple of times and we do need everyone together.”

Adding extra spice to the relegation duel was the arrival of Jim Jefferies at East End Park, the former Hearts manager taking over from the sacked Jim McIntyre, his first match in charge a 1-1 draw with St Mirren trimming Hibs’ advantage from four points to three.

O’Brien, however, believes that while Jefferies’ appointment will no doubt have helped fray the nerves of Hibs fans just that little bit more, it will be no distraction to the Hibs management team. He said: “It’s still the same group of players over there, that hasn’t changed.

“What goes on at Dunfermline is their concern, we just have to concentrate on Hibs. Our job is to keep this club in the SPL and hopefully then we can kick on next season.” O’Brien knows from his time with Newcastle just how a club’s fortunes can be transformed in a relatively short period of time. Having been relegated to what is now the Championship, the Tyneside club were just one game away from falling even further, but defeated Leicester City at Filbert Street on the final day of season 1992/93.

He said: “There was all the euphoria, everyone thrilled at staying up. Then, with virtually the same group of players although Kevin Keegan had brought a couple of new faces in, we won the league the next season. You never know what can happen in football.”

O’Brien wasn’t suggesting for one minute that Hibs will do likewise but he insisted there was a common thread to the story in that to regard success as merely avoiding relegation for clubs of their stature was simply unacceptable.

He said: “This is a massive club, everything is here, the stadium, the training centre, great facilities. What is needed is a good team on the park.”

Amid it all there is one thing of which O’Brien is certain, Fenlon won’t buckle in the face of adversity, or even give walking away a second thought.

He said: “Pat is a very deep person, he keeps a lot inside himself. He won’t let himself go as much as he should do, if I am being honest. Knowing the way he is I don’t think all this will affect him as it would other people.

“He believes in himself, the players he has brought here and those that were already here, that they are good enough to get us out of this situation.

“That’s what we have to do, concentrate on staying in this league and you will see a different Pat Fenlon next season. He is not a quitter, no way. He’s done very well in Ireland and, let’s be clear, the one thing about him is he’s focused on doing well here.

“He will want to turn things around and given time he will. Believe me.”

Very good read that and agree with all of it. We are more competitive at present with teams around us however the better teams Utd, Celtic, Hearts to a lesser extent have beaten us. The most improtant thing is that we all stick together club, players and especially support in what will be massive games in the next couple of months. Personally think Pat is the man to take us on and I also agree that if we survive this we will be stronger next season when he can bring in more players and get a decent pre-season in them.

A win on Sunday would be a massive boost allied to hopefully Utd horsing the Pars on the Saturday.

[Captain Trips]

I Refer to your point in bold in in all honesty i must say there has not been much improvement in fact results on a like for like basis in the league are worse than when CC Was in charge.

But my point is we may take a downward spiral before we get better PF Has started the process of clearing out the dross but he can only do this at every transfer window to date he has had one go at it, another 3 goes would that not be worth it to turn everything round.
That would give PF A 2 Year plan to be fair he tried everything to get players in at the last window i really cant see what more he could have done.
PF Is slowly getting rid of the dross left by CC And Yogi and its not a 6 months or a years job his remit i am guessing was to keep us up, good cup run, then rebuild for next season in the summer window he can bring in more/better players and gradually empty the last of the dross.


I would not just simply bin him even if his record at this time is worse, he needs some time to adjust and he had a transfer window to make more changes and adjust so I have been judging him of late say last 2/3 matches and there is good and bad. He should certainly finish the season with us and indeed start a build in summer but this is where I think we differ.

I do not think it should take 2yrs to have us sorted I think it should be mostly fixed in summer if PF makes the right signings, he has to perform next season from the start we cannot have another season of he will come good, he has to show signs of being good and there is only one way he can do that and that is actually be good.

I do not think PF will be here if there is slight improvement say 8th/9th as that to many is still way off were we need to be as that to me isnt showing he is right. For me PF has to get us into 3rd/4th might be harsh or tough but that is what I think he should be going for and getting.