Pat Fenlon

[Famous5forever]

I would not just simply bin him even if his record at this time is worse, he needs some time to adjust and he had a transfer window to make more changes and adjust so I have been judging him of late say last 2/3 matches and there is good and bad. He should certainly finish the season with us and indeed start a build in summer but this is where I think we differ.

I do not think it should take 2yrs to have us sorted I think it should be mostly fixed in summer if PF makes the right signings, he has to perform next season from the start we cannot have another season of he will come good, he has to show signs of being good and there is only one way he can do that and that is actually be good.

I do not think PF will be here if there is slight improvement say 8th/9th as that to many is still way off were we need to be as that to me isnt showing he is right. For me PF has to get us into 3rd/4th might be harsh or tough but that is what I think he should be going for and getting.

There are 2 scenarios 1. We start next season if off to a bad start say same as his current form first 16 games 1 win and a few draws then you reckon time for change ?
Or he starts us off with a good start well up the league good form and looking like a top 3-4 slot then obviously he stays to build on this.
Option 1 repeats the cycle of the last 2 managers which id like to avoid thats the only options we have, i do see your point and lets just hope option one does not happen i really cant stand another season fighting relegation another Manager sacked pre AGM New Manager in, New Players in in January and the cycle repeated.

[Captain Trips]

There are 2 scenarios 1. We start next season if off to a bad start say same as his current form first 16 games 1 win and a few draws then you reckon time for change ?
Or he starts us off with a good start well up the league good form and looking like a top 3-4 slot then obviously he stays to build on this.
Option 1 repeats the cycle of the last 2 managers which id like to avoid thats the only options we have, i do see your point and lets just hope option one does not happen i really cant stand another season fighting relegation another Manager sacked pre AGM New Manager in, New Players in in January and the cycle repeated.

1. will mean he is not good enough and therefore there would be nothing in those games to really suggest anything other than relegation. If it is option 1 it does repeat the cycle and it repeats that those whom pick them are not fit for purpose.

Lets all hope for 2

[Eyrie]

I would not just simply bin him even if his record at this time is worse, he needs some time to adjust and he had a transfer window to make more changes and adjust so I have been judging him of late say last 2/3 matches and there is good and bad. He should certainly finish the season with us and indeed start a build in summer but this is where I think we differ.

I do not think it should take 2yrs to have us sorted I think it should be mostly fixed in summer if PF makes the right signings, he has to perform next season from the start we cannot have another season of he will come good, he has to show signs of being good and there is only one way he can do that and that is actually be good.
But if we need to sign players on 3-4 year deals rather than 18-24 months, should the same level of commitment not be shown towards the manager?

I'd only start worrying about Fenlon if he cleans house this summer and this time next year we're still threatened by relegation from the SPL or mired in the middle of Division 1.

[hopefulhibby]

[QUOTE=hopefulhibby;3161503]Pat Fenlon will bring us to our knees he is not equipped for this job at all if you look at how he brought Shelbourne and Bohemians to there knees, Shelbourne are only back in the top flight this season and Bohemians are sitting at the bottom of the league thanks to the mess that PF left behind, lets look at a few truths about what PF has done in his short time at Hibs, Callum Booth maybe our best player last season PF does not fancy him why?, has brought in 2nd rate players and now we are shipping more goals than ever, Claros (el pittbull) PF was conned with this lad, Matt Doherty could not get a game at Bohemians and yet he is now playing for Hibs IN THE SPL, Roy o Donovan 9clubs in 5yrs, Eion Doyle is he any better than what we had, James McPake pass marks only, Kujabi hot and cold to say the least, Francombe no better than what we had, also look how PF handled the griffiths situation PFgets a face full of bib and BB gets a slap so what does PF do, he starts Griffiths on sat on the other hand Martin Scott has a bit of a rant and gets suspended without pay, now what sot of message is that sending to the players, the message is that PF is out of his depth, last season we had a great run of 6 wins on the bounce that will not happen with PF because he is clueless at this level and cannot get the respect of the players, as for his assistants BB applied for the job and got turned down in favour of PF so it will be 2 fingers from him to the club if we are relagated, PF was manager of a part time team in Dublin he is never in a million years able to manage or attract the players we have or need at Hibernian FC, so thanks for the bad memories and its time to pack up and go[/QUOT

Hopeful hibby what a terrible post. Give the man a chance. Hibs don't need so called fans like you. Why don't you pack up and go. Disgraceful post from a hibs fan. Why don't we all back the club just like the rangers fans have backed theirs. Yes I'm saying that they are united behind their team. Our team needs us now more than ever but not fans like hopeful hibby!!!!

will you regard it a success if we dont get relegated? all i done is pointed out a few truths, calderwoods record is almost twice as good as PF, Pat has not improved us one bit look at the results and players he has brought in

[Captain Trips]

But if we need to sign players on 3-4 year deals rather than 18-24 months, should the same level of commitment not be shown towards the manager?

I'd only start worrying about Fenlon if he cleans house this summer and this time next year we're still threatened by relegation from the SPL or mired in the middle of Division 1.

Unfortunatley that is nature of football, yes we need to sign players for longer but if it goes wrong he will still get sacked. He will hopefully get in some players whom will be on longer contracts and if he does it right we should be set.

[Famous5forever]

[QUOTE=mcfly;3161939]

will you regard it a success if we dont get relegated? all i done is pointed out a few truths, calderwoods record is almost twice as good as PF, Pat has not improved us one bit look at the results and players he has brought in

Up until February results were poor but he was working with the dross left behind by CC And Yogi, since Feb with Paddys new players there has been an improvement he needs time for his new players to settle in McPake has made a difference.
Lets see how the next 2 league games go, last 2 have not been good if we lose the next 2 id genuinely start to worry.

[HFC 0-7]

There are 2 scenarios 1. We start next season if off to a bad start say same as his current form first 16 games 1 win and a few draws then you reckon time for change ?
Or he starts us off with a good start well up the league good form and looking like a top 3-4 slot then obviously he stays to build on this.
Option 1 repeats the cycle of the last 2 managers which id like to avoid thats the only options we have, i do see your point and lets just hope option one does not happen i really cant stand another season fighting relegation another Manager sacked pre AGM New Manager in, New Players in in January and the cycle repeated.

We cant just keep a manager even if the results are not picking up just because we have to break a cycle. we have to do it with the right man, if its looking like results are not picking up then his position needs to be looked at. Yes its difficult to come in mid season but he has had a transfer window and results are still shocking. Where as I wouldnt expect a manager to come in mid season when we are relegation fodder and turn us into a challening for europe side, I would expect some improvement and move us away from relegation. Its not happened do far and to be honest if this goes to the wire then question should be asked of why we are in this position even after fenlon brought in a lot of players.

The board and the fans should clearly be able to see something that fenlon is doing that warrants him to use a pre season transfer window etc or you are correct, we will be replacing a manager mid season again. Up until now, apart from talking a good game, Fenlon hasnt really shown anything yet, 8 or so games left though so there is time to show us what he has got.

[RickyS]

We cant just keep a manager even if the results are not picking up just because we have to break a cycle. we have to do it with the right man, if its looking like results are not picking up then his position needs to be looked at. Yes its difficult to come in mid season but he has had a transfer window and results are still shocking. Where as I wouldnt expect a manager to come in mid season when we are relegation fodder and turn us into a challening for europe side, I would expect some improvement and move us away from relegation. Its not happened do far and to be honest if this goes to the wire then question should be asked of why we are in this position even after fenlon brought in a lot of players.

The board and the fans should clearly be able to see something that fenlon is doing that warrants him to use a pre season transfer window etc or you are correct, we will be replacing a manager mid season again. Up until now, apart from talking a good game, Fenlon hasnt really shown anything yet, 8 or so games left though so there is time to show us what he has got.

have to agree with this, nobody wants to change managers all the time and we all understand that Calderwood left Paddy little to work with but there has to be encouraging signs, shoots of improvement, so far there has been very little to give me confidence

[Famous5forever]

We cant just keep a manager even if the results are not picking up just because we have to break a cycle. we have to do it with the right man, if its looking like results are not picking up then his position needs to be looked at. Yes its difficult to come in mid season but he has had a transfer window and results are still shocking. Where as I wouldnt expect a manager to come in mid season when we are relegation fodder and turn us into a challening for europe side, I would expect some improvement and move us away from relegation. Its not happened do far and to be honest if this goes to the wire then question should be asked of why we are in this position even after fenlon brought in a lot of players.

The board and the fans should clearly be able to see something that fenlon is doing that warrants him to use a pre season transfer window etc or you are correct, we will be replacing a manager mid season again. Up until now, apart from talking a good game, Fenlon hasnt really shown anything yet, 8 or so games left though so there is time to show us what he has got.

Positives so far McKPAKE Has shored up a leaky defence, Paddy has emptied quite a lot of the dross, Yes he is good with the press interviews come over really good, Semi final of the Cup, PF Is not afraid to have a go blame the players for the situation we are in for being to nervous. We are harder to beat than under CC. lots of other new players in that look good but need time to gel and bed in.
Under CC We were a tired club with no purpose, Under PF Much more positive harder to beat and an improvement on CC Overall id say PF Gets a 6 out of 10 for trying to sort out a horrible mess.

[Captain Trips]

Positives so far McKPAKE Has shored up a leaky defence, Paddy has emptied quite a lot of the dross, Yes he is good with the press interviews come over really good, Semi final of the Cup, PF Is not afraid to have a go blame the players for the situation we are in for being to nervous. We are harder to beat than under CC. lots of other new players in that look good but need time to gel and bed in.
Under CC We were a tired club with no purpose, Under PF Much more positive harder to beat and an improvement on CC Overall id say PF Gets a 6 out of 10 for trying to sort out a horrible mess.

What would concern me from your own post is from all the players he has signed loans or not you selected one as a positive from 6/7? I would be looking for 3/4 as a good hit. I think he maybe has 2 or 3 but I doubt they have any future at Hibs after season.

[Famous5forever]

What would concern me from your own post is from all the players he has signed loans or not you selected one as a positive from 6/7? I would be looking for 3/4 as a good hit. I think he maybe has 2 or 3 but I doubt they have any future at Hibs after season.


I Agree.

[Eyrie]

We cant just keep a manager even if the results are not picking up just because we have to break a cycle. we have to do it with the right man, if its looking like results are not picking up then his position needs to be looked at. Yes its difficult to come in mid season but he has had a transfer window and results are still shocking. Where as I wouldnt expect a manager to come in mid season when we are relegation fodder and turn us into a challening for europe side, I would expect some improvement and move us away from relegation. Its not happened do far and to be honest if this goes to the wire then question should be asked of why we are in this position even after fenlon brought in a lot of players.

The board and the fans should clearly be able to see something that fenlon is doing that warrants him to use a pre season transfer window etc or you are correct, we will be replacing a manager mid season again. Up until now, apart from talking a good game, Fenlon hasnt really shown anything yet, 8 or so games left though so there is time to show us what he has got.
The new manager has to be given time to prove himself, or we'll end up sacking them twice a season.

Calderwood was given longer than you're prepared to offer Fenlon, and for less reason. For all Petrie lauded his fabulous February, Calderwood then presided over an appalling downturn. His inability to build on one brief period of good form was damning.

[eastmainsmsh]

Have heard that Billy Brown thinks that sometimes you can bring players on make them that wee bit better encourage and get the best out of them ... and his opinion is that there is no one in the current squad that is capable of making progress .. to me that is a worrying thing if true from scource that i spoke to

[IWasThere2016]

The new manager has to be given time to prove himself, or we'll end up sacking them twice a season.

Calderwood was given longer than you're prepared to offer Fenlon, and for less reason. For all Petrie lauded his fabulous February, Calderwood then presided over an appalling downturn. His inability to build on one brief period of good form was damning.

You cannot be sure PF will build going forward. The facts are after one window, CC results are better than PF's and apparently with 'dross' also.

[HFC 0-7]

Positives so far McKPAKE Has shored up a leaky defence, Paddy has emptied quite a lot of the dross, Yes he is good with the press interviews come over really good, Semi final of the Cup, PF Is not afraid to have a go blame the players for the situation we are in for being to nervous. We are harder to beat than under CC. lots of other new players in that look good but need time to gel and bed in.
Under CC We were a tired club with no purpose, Under PF Much more positive harder to beat and an improvement on CC Overall id say PF Gets a 6 out of 10 for trying to sort out a horrible mess.

Not so sure we are harder to beat to be honest, maybe because we are playing deeper and it's harder for teams to play through, but that is at the cost of being able to score goals. This needs time to gel thing is a myth, we waited and waited for it to happen with other managers and it never happened. Giving him a 6 out of ten for bringing in his own players and having a worse record than the previous manager and sitting 3 points above relegation is a but high.

[HFC 0-7]

The new manager has to be given time to prove himself, or we'll end up sacking them twice a season.

Calderwood was given longer than you're prepared to offer Fenlon, and for less reason. For all Petrie lauded his fabulous February, Calderwood then presided over an appalling downturn. His inability to build on one brief period of good form was damning.

I think a manager should be given time but only if they look like they will be good. Fenlon has not shown anything IMO, his league record is very bad, he has brought in his own players and we are still fighting relegation. Yes cc was given more time but it wouldn't have been my choice. I have said that fenlon should be given to the end of the season but if we are relegated or still don't show signs of improvement then the position needs to be looked at. I think people are that fed up with changing manager that they are more prepared to give someone time even if there isn't anything to show that the manager is capable.

Like it or not fans don't like long periods of rebuilding if there isn't any signs on the pitch. Now there is probably über fans out there that will shout me down saying we should support the team no matter what, I will, however the clubs rely on all the other non über fans that will turn there backs when the product is rubbish.

Hibs need a manager that can rebuild the team and show it on the pitch straight away, even if it's slowly.

[Green Cabbage 7]

Some things on here about fenlon is utter dross! I think you can see the character of the man! If you ask me it's the players that need a long hard look at themselves! They need to look up the words brave and persevere! Pat has my full backing and if it means more players out in the summer so be it, that's the crux of it for me! Also glad he only brought in loan signings as they were quick fixes for the rebuilding work in the summer! Initiative and forward planning for me!

[Basildon Hibs]

It is no use you are right in changing managers all the time but it is also no use in keeping one whom is doing badly with the hope of just saying give him 2 years, the bits in bold if they happened would that not be justification for changing? If results are bad why would you be looking 18mths down the line in thinking he is right man?

The manager has to be judged on the results, this league is not good enough IMO to allow a manager to take 2yrs to build a team and just wait the 2 years. A manager needs time at a club but they buy their own time by showing improvement, it would be mental to give him 2yrs almost for sake of it, if he gets 2yrs it will be because he earned it with his performance and that is what I hope ha:winkppens.

I may be wrong but reading your post it seems like you think give him 2yrs no matter what, is that right?
If not what would be your level to say you think he isnt up to it?


I agree. If he doesn't keep us up, then he can GTF back to his natural 'level' in the pishy Irish league, where he was thought of as some Mourinho !! (Puts tin hat on) :wink::wink:

[IWasThere2016]

Some things on here about fenlon is utter dross! I think you can see the character of the man! If you ask me it's the players that need a long hard look at themselves! They need to look up the words brave and persevere! Pat has my full backing and if it means more players out in the summer so be it, that's the crux of it for me! Also glad he only brought in loan signings as they were quick fixes for the rebuilding work in the summer! Initiative and forward planning for me!

I'd hope EVERY Hibs fan is behind PF aand wanting him to do well - BUT the results MUST improve (and be better than the Pars') or we will be forward planning for the First Division, and that would be a disaster IMHO.

[brianmc]

Have heard that Billy Brown thinks that sometimes you can bring players on make them that wee bit better encourage and get the best out of them ... and his opinion is that there is no one in the current squad that is capable of making progress .. to me that is a worrying thing if true from scource that i spoke to

Surely what you describe here is a coach's job description boiled down to it's barest essentials? Are you really suggesting that, according to your source, that Billy Brown thinks he has no coaching skills at all that could improve any of the players at E.R.?? If this is the case I'd like to think he'd resign his post..... Or of course you/ your source may be...... Ill informed?

[Andy74]

I think a manager should be given time but only if they look like they will be good. Fenlon has not shown anything IMO, his league record is very bad, he has brought in his own players and we are still fighting relegation. Yes cc was given more time but it wouldn't have been my choice. I have said that fenlon should be given to the end of the season but if we are relegated or still don't show signs of improvement then the position needs to be looked at. I think people are that fed up with changing manager that they are more prepared to give someone time even if there isn't anything to show that the manager is capable.

Like it or not fans don't like long periods of rebuilding if there isn't any signs on the pitch. Now there is probably über fans out there that will shout me down saying we should support the team no matter what, I will, however the clubs rely on all the other non über fans that will turn there backs when the product is rubbish.

Hibs need a manager that can rebuild the team and show it on the pitch straight away, even if it's slowly.

Nonsense. There are plenty signs that Fenlon will improve us. We are where we are and it's a difficult thing to get out of given the lack of quality and lack of character that was left at this club. However, I think anyone that's actually been to the games will see where there has been improvement, even if some results haven't followed. CC would have got this lot to the semi final right?

[3pm]

Nonsense. There are plenty signs that Fenlon will improve us. We are where we are and it's a difficult thing to get out of given the lack of quality and lack of character that was left at this club. However, I think anyone that's actually been to the games will see where there has been improvement, even if some results haven't followed. CC would have got this lot to the semi final right?

I've only been to the Killie cup game there is no way we would have won that under the clown before him.

[Eyrie]

CC would have got this lot to the semi final right?
He would already have had us relegated, so that alone is proof than Fenlon has been an improvement.

[HFC 0-7]

Nonsense. There are plenty signs that Fenlon will improve us. We are where we are and it's a difficult thing to get out of given the lack of quality and lack of character that was left at this club. However, I think anyone that's actually been to the games will see where there has been improvement, even if some results haven't followed. CC would have got this lot to the semi final right?

What has fenlon shown as an improvement? His league record is worse than CC, yogi and duff jimmy. The only thing he has done is try and make us harder to beat by playing deeper, which as a result has made it harder for us to score. Yes we are in the semi but we haven't played really good opposition. I have been to the games and where I thought there were signs of improvement at the start I now think it was wishful thinking. This season CC took 13 points in 14 games , fenlon has managed 9 points in 16 games. So with all this improvement we are worse off! We conceded 22 and scored 14 in CC 14 games. Fenlons 16 games in the league has seen us concede 36 and score 13. So we are worse off in terms of points, goals scored and goals conceded but you are seeing the improvement? I would say its nonsense to say we are improving when we are worse off with everything that counts!

[JimBHibees]

What has fenlon shown as an improvement? His league record is worse than CC, yogi and duff jimmy. The only thing he has done is try and make us harder to beat by playing deeper, which as a result has made it harder for us to score. Yes we are in the semi but we haven't played really good opposition. I have been to the games and where I thought there were signs of improvement at the start I now think it was wishful thinking. This season CC took 13 points in 14 games , fenlon has managed 9 points in 16 games. So with all this improvement we are worse off! We conceded 22 and scored 14 in CC 14 games. Fenlons 16 games in the league has seen us concede 36 and score 13. So we are worse off in terms of points, goals scored and goals conceded but you are seeing the improvement? I would say its nonsense to say we are improving when we are worse off with everything that counts!

We beat the recent winners of the League cup. Stats count for nothing, dont think there is much doubt we are competing with the teams around about us better than previously. We have done ok in a few games and probably should have beat Dons and St Mirren at home. We were well beat by Celtc and United no doubt however they are probably the best teams in the league. It will take time no doubt however to me he has brought better in and we arent being outplayed as we were previously and defensively we are better organised especially when McPake is playing.

[blackpoolhibs]

We beat the recent winners of the League cup. Stats count for nothing, dont think there is much doubt we are competing with the teams around about us better than previously. We have done ok in a few games and probably should have beat Dons and St Mirren at home. We were well beat by Celtc and United no doubt however they are probably the best teams in the league. It will take time no doubt however to me he has brought better in and we arent being outplayed as we were previously and defensively we are better organised especially when McPake is playing.

:agree: His job now is to keep us up, and if he does, its next season the real work starts.

[HFC 0-7]

We beat the recent winners of the League cup. Stats count for nothing, dont think there is much doubt we are competing with the teams around about us better than previously. We have done ok in a few games and probably should have beat Dons and St Mirren at home. We were well beat by Celtc and United no doubt however they are probably the best teams in the league. It will take time no doubt however to me he has brought better in and we arent being outplayed as we were previously and defensively we are better organised especially when McPake is playing.

Stats count for everything I am afraid, the league table is a table of stats and it's that the will determine who goes down, who wins etc. again, if we are competing more with the teams around us then how have we had less wins and draws but more losses than the previous manager. At the end of the day if we are bottom of the league at the end of the season, regardless of whether we are trying to play better the result is the same, relegation! I wasn't a fan of CC but his record was better than fenlons, 37 points was CC's haul last season we won't get that this season so where is the improvement? Fenlon has 16 games in charge, results should be improving by now! It would be great not to change manager again but only if the person in charge is the right person, currently I can't see it, I hope he changes my mind by the end of the season!

[hopefulhibby]

He would already have had us relegated, so that alone is proof than Fenlon has been an improvement.

I cant believe that some posters think we have improved under Pat have they not compared our last 16 games with the previous 16 games under CC its not rocket science just do the maths and you will see that CC record was almost twice as good as Pats its a fact, so stop kidding yourselves and face up to reality, saying that i think we can get a result tomorrow if we put out a changed line up from last week

[HUTCHYHIBBY]

I cant believe that some posters think we have improved under Pat have they not compared our last 16 games with the previous 16 games under CC its not rocket science just do the maths and you will see that CC record was almost twice as good as Pats its a fact, so stop kidding yourselves and face up to reality, saying that i think we can get a result tomorrow if we put out a changed line up from last week

I've got to agree, hopefully he does enough to keep us up and then start to turn things around next season.

[ekhibee]

I wouldn't blame Fenlon for the most part, and I certainly wouldn't get rid of him either before he's had a chance to bring some new players in, permanent ones, not loan deals. But to be honest, I honestly think there are far too many new signings needed for any manager to make a significant impression in the SPL, I reckon we will be bottom 6 material for some time, if we survive relegation. We don't need just a better 1st 11, we need good players to replace any injuries we might get to the good/decent players in the 1st team. We don't, it would appear, have anything like the money to finance these changes, so ironically we are almost relying on other teams becoming as bad as we are right now to give us a chance to stay in the SPL. I've often thought that the managers have come to this club have been spun a yarn, I don't, contrary to a lot of people on here, believe they always knew what they were getting in to when they got here, there may well have been some promises broken as regards funding the team,but I must emphasize that is just my opinion. I do think we would get promoted pretty quickly if we were relegated, we do have more funds available to buy better quality player than I would imagine most of the 1st Div teams, but I would also say the main mistake I would think that has been made is the belief by the board, and plenty of the fans too, that we could make all the expensive changes to the infrastructure of the club without investing as much as we should have in the team. For all the talk on these boards about how well run we are financially, we are in serious trouble of getting relegated so whether they like it or not, the board will have to invest more heavily than they have, and this will be harder because the buffer they had before of selling virtually every good player we have to the highest bidder just doesn't exist anymore cos we don't have any good players right now, or players that we could get serious money for. So maybe we should just be happy with our lot and not expect too much at any time from Hibs, that way when we somehow manage to beat Hearts, or win the Scottish Cup, it'll be a nice surprise. The choice is up to the individual, and I'm only expressing my opinion. And at the end of the day I will always hate Hearts,now and forever, and anything to do with them is totally irrelevant to me, unless we are beating them regularly.

[Sir David Gray]

I wouldn't blame Fenlon for the most part, and I certainly wouldn't get rid of him either before he's had a chance to bring some new players in, permanent ones, not loan deals. But to be honest, I honestly think there are far too many new signings needed for any manager to make a significant impression in the SPL, I reckon we will be bottom 6 material for some time, if we survive relegation. We don't need just a better 1st 11, we need good players to replace any injuries we might get to the good/decent players in the 1st team. We don't, it would appear, have anything like the money to finance these changes, so ironically we are almost relying on other teams becoming as bad as we are right now to give us a chance to stay in the SPL. I've often thought that the managers have come to this club have been spun a yarn, I don't, contrary to a lot of people on here, believe they always knew what they were getting in to when they got here, there may well have been some promises broken as regards funding the team,but I must emphasize that is just my opinion. I do think we would get promoted pretty quickly if we were relegated, we do have more funds available to buy better quality player than I would imagine most of the 1st Div teams, but I would also say the main mistake I would think that has been made is the belief by the board, and plenty of the fans too, that we could make all the expensive changes to the infrastructure of the club without investing as much as we should have in the team. For all the talk on these boards about how well run we are financially, we are in serious trouble of getting relegated so whether they like it or not, the board will have to invest more heavily than they have, and this will be harder because the buffer they had before of selling virtually every good player we have to the highest bidder just doesn't exist anymore cos we don't have any good players right now, or players that we could get serious money for. So maybe we should just be happy with our lot and not expect too much at any time from Hibs, that way when we somehow manage to beat Hearts, or win the Scottish Cup, it'll be a nice surprise. The choice is up to the individual, and I'm only expressing my opinion. And at the end of the day I will always hate Hearts,now and forever, and anything to do with them is totally irrelevant to me, unless we are beating them regularly.

Any chance of some paragraphs next time?

I'm sure you've made some valid points there but that post is almost unreadable.

[Hibernia Na Eir]

What has fenlon shown as an improvement? His league record is worse than CC, yogi and duff jimmy. The only thing he has done is try and make us harder to beat by playing deeper, which as a result has made it harder for us to score. Yes we are in the semi but we haven't played really good opposition. I have been to the games and where I thought there were signs of improvement at the start I now think it was wishful thinking. This season CC took 13 points in 14 games , fenlon has managed 9 points in 16 games. So with all this improvement we are worse off! We conceded 22 and scored 14 in CC 14 games. Fenlons 16 games in the league has seen us concede 36 and score 13. So we are worse off in terms of points, goals scored and goals conceded but you are seeing the improvement? I would say its nonsense to say we are improving when we are worse off with everything that counts!

sheils, Sergio, Brown, Houston, D Lennon......you cannot honestly say any one of these guys is better than paddy F!! FFS!

[IWasThere2016]

Stats count for everything I am afraid, the league table is a table of stats and it's that the will determine who goes down, who wins etc. again, if we are competing more with the teams around us then how have we had less wins and draws but more losses than the previous manager. At the end of the day if we are bottom of the league at the end of the season, regardless of whether we are trying to play better the result is the same, relegation! I wasn't a fan of CC but his record was better than fenlons, 37 points was CC's haul last season we won't get that this season so where is the improvement? Fenlon has 16 games in charge, results should be improving by now! It would be great not to change manager again but only if the person in charge is the right person, currently I can't see it, I hope he changes my mind by the end of the season!

Best to ignore the stats and just make it up ala #74 and Eyrie as CC has us out of the cup and relegated :faf:

PF also improved us by turning a 4-way relegation into a two horse race - strangely by having a poor record with a team mostly of his signings.

The facts are clearly just too difficult for some :wink:

[HFC 0-7]

sheils, Sergio, Brown, Houston, D Lennon......you cannot honestly say any one of these guys is better than paddy F!! FFS!

What are you talking about? When did I say they were?

[Andy74]

Best to ignore the stats and just make it up ala #74 and Eyrie as CC has us out of the cup and relegated :faf:

PF also improved us by turning a 4-way relegation into a two horse race - strangely by having a poor record with a team mostly of his signings.

The facts are clearly just too difficult for some :wink:

So you are actually saying Fenlon has made us worse than under CC yes? You should try turning up now and again if that's the case.

[DaveF]

PF also improved us by turning a 4-way relegation into a two horse race - strangely by having a poor record with a team mostly of his signings.

The facts are clearly just too difficult for some :wink:

If Calderwood was left in charge I have no doubt Hibs would be easily winning a one horse relegation race.

[Eyrie]

I cant believe that some posters think we have improved under Pat have they not compared our last 16 games with the previous 16 games under CC its not rocket science just do the maths and you will see that CC record was almost twice as good as Pats its a fact, so stop kidding yourselves and face up to reality, saying that i think we can get a result tomorrow if we put out a changed line up from last week
And if O'Connor had kept playing at the level he started the season then Fenlon's record would have been superior.

Yes, I'm offering my opinion on how things would have turned out but those who attend the games say the performances in general under Fenlon have been much improved even if the results haven't. I'll defer to them and look for further proof this afternoon.

[TowerHibs]

Houston - been at united for years and has a steady squad also been there for years

McColl - 18 months now but majority of the team has been there for years

St Johnstone - McInnes was there for 3 1/2 years and build a squad over those years

Kilmarnock - Shiels, been at the club for 2 1/2 years and again has the spine of a team who have been there for years!


All these coaches do the same Uefa courses. What it all proves to me is if you give a manager some money to build a team, keep it together for 2/3 years then in Scotland you will get some relative success. No coincidence that after Mowbary had steaded the ship for 3 years, that team lifted the LC give or take 1 or 2 players. We need to keep a squad of around 15 guys who stay for 3 years and stick by the manager for that time.