Farmer/petrie invest or go (MERGED)

[snooky]

Still think Coco should have been given till xmas?

I got a lovely new Hibernian hat and scarf to go on Weds, you going yourself mate aye?

Bum Petrie all you like but he's massively failed US over the last 5 years and it's nobody else's fault.

Christmas 2010 or 2011? :dunno: :wink:

[Kammy1875]

Christmas 2010 or 2011? :dunno: :wink:


:greengrin To think I travelled up to Aberdeen that piss poor Saturday full of optimism as well :confused:

[Iain G]

Still think Coco should have been given till xmas?

I got a lovely new Hibernian hat and scarf to go on Weds, you going yourself mate aye?

Bum Petrie all you like but he's massively failed US over the last 5 years and it's nobody else's fault.

Would giving him til Christmas made any difference in our results?!?

I would love to be there on Wednesday supporting the team but of course i aint going to be there, so well done with your cheap shot and I do hope you dont let your negativity spoil the game for you.

[Kammy1875]

Would giving him til Christmas made any difference in our results?!?

I would love to be there on Wednesday supporting the team but of course i aint going to be there, so well done with your cheap shot and I do hope you dont let your negativity spoil the game for you.


It wouldn't but there's improvement now. Your judgement is shocking pal.

I won't, I'm there every week, spending my hard earned backing my team.

It's no cheap shot, if you paid money to go watch us every week then you would see the full story and be frustrated too.

CC should have been emptied in the summer. End of discussion. :agree:

[greenlex]

Could then hypothetically easily replace him with somebody equally as competent at both, bottom line is his job entails more than 1 aspect and he is failing at 1 aspect therefore rightly questiong position and it should rightfully continue.

The man is failing at a major aspect at club regardless of how good anything else is.

Or worse replaced by someone worse at both.. Betterthedevil you know. The time will come soon enough when he takes a step back.
We will get lucky inthe menager appointment one of these times. Let's hope this is it.

[Kammy1875]

Or worse replaced by someone worse at both.. Betterthedevil you know. The time will come soon enough when he takes a step back.
We will get lucky inthe menager appointment one of these times. Let's hope this is it.


Who on gods earth could have done a worse job than the job Petrie has done the past 5 years.

3rd force, great football, league cup, sell outs to bottom of the SPL and under 10k crowds.

[Nailrod]

Funnily enough as I was typing it that thought crossed my mind.

My post was typed up fairly quickly so I've missed out quite a few things and maybe wasn't as articulate as I could've been.

I will send an email to Hibernian FC about my experiences. It obviously won't fix our immediate first team problems but I've grown up with the understanding that we had one of the best, if not THE best, youth policies. What I have found is that we don't and that we are missing out.

For example we had an exceptional young lad who has just signed a 2 year commitment for Falkirk. This boy has unbelievable potential. The best I have seen at this age group. The old firm were bending over backwards for this boy and still pester the parents. Aberdeen had him but lost out. The Hibs scout literally had first shout on him (due to a bit of my influence) but lack of a personal approach and information to the parents blew that.

Expect to be ignored if you're lucky, and if you're not, expect to be treated in the most condescending manner imaginable.

[Captain Trips]

Or worse replaced by someone worse at both.. Betterthedevil you know. The time will come soon enough when he takes a step back.
We will get lucky inthe menager appointment one of these times. Let's hope this is it.

The devil I know made his final error in summer, I do not care if he is right with PF, RP is not right any more, I would hire the right manager eventually as well im sure, so no its not better devil you know anymore.

[Saorsa]

Expect to be ignored if you're lucky, and if you're not, expect to be treated in the most condescending manner imaginable.That seems a wee bit harsh, at least in my experience. As some folk might have noticed I'm noticed I'm no the biggest fan :greengrin of this board and in particular it's chairman but in the interests of fairness I have tae that say that any e-mail I've ever sent, (even the slightly angrier ones) have been answered promptly and in a polite and proper manner, the fact that I've often disagreed with the answer is something different altogether.

[Nailrod]

That seems a wee bit harsh, at least in my experience. As some folk might have noticed I'm noticed I'm no the biggest fan :greengrin of this board and in particular it's chairman but in the interests of fairness I have tae that say that any e-mail I've ever sent, (even the slightly angrier ones) have been answered promptly and in a polite and proper manner, the fact that I've often disagreed with the answer is something different altogether.

I'm glad to hear it. I look forward to hearing from SquashedFrogg that he's been invited in to the club to talk over his experiences with one or two of the Directors, followed by information on the actions that have been taken to remedy the very worrying problems he's highlighted.

[Saorsa]

I look forward to hearing from SquashedFrogg that he's been invited in to the club to talk over his experiences with one or two of the Directors, followed by information on the actions that have been taken to remedy the very worrying problems he's highlighted.Indeed, I read that post with interest and would like to know the outcome of his contact with the club on this matter.

[Davy Mac]

To be fair, my laddies on saturday commented on how awful Tannadice is compared to ER and how lucky we are to have such a fine stadium.

In truth they are right, what we have achieved is remarkable in such a short space of time and we shouldn't look back and regret/critise building the new stand and training centre - what's done is done and we now need to think to our future.

So the stage is now set..............

In my business experience, I only ever employ people who are talented at a specific role/task the business (not the person) requires, and although I think RP has acheived most of the goals and objectives he's been given, his lack of communication/PR skills is probably the reason he appears aloof, arrogant and distant to me and perhaps many others.

However, if Hibs were my business I would be looking for a different kind of person who can develop and grow the product now, we need a fresh pair of eyes to take us forward and although it appears he has stepped a side a bit, former leaders hanging around just create a bad atmosphere IMO.

RP should be proud at what he has achieved in his time with us and STF needs to let go, but not of Hibs. IMO we are very lucky to still have STF at the helm, to be able to access working capital in any business should be highly prized especially in this current climate.

Just my take on it.

[son of haggart]

Complete and utter bollocks, IMHO.

Couple of points from me, probably ones that I have made before but, hey, there's not a new argument on this thread so I might as well muck in.:greengrin

..........

Are they the right people to take advantage of that position? Well, that remains to be seen. The job at Hibernian is different now. The priorities are different. The sole focus is on sporting success now, whereas before the other infrastructure projects were important long term. There are no more infrastructure projects to complete AFAIK.

So that leaves the board to work out how to make it work on the park. They've seen that their existing structure wasn't working and have recently changed this, with details published on the official site as well as being mention at the AGM, IIRC. IMHO, whenever there is a significant change in operations it can take time for results to be seen, and it's far too soon to say whether or not the changes will ultimately be successful.

...............

I'm not sure what else we're expecting the board to do at the moment. They have made mistakes, they haven't got the desired results but then there's not a specific formula to making it work in football, certainly not at a club the size of Hibernian. We are underperforming and that has been recognised by the board who have taken action to rectify it.

A well written and well argued post but this section made me think a bit..

With a loss having been made last year and a larger one coming for this financial year, will Farmer and Petrie see the priority as the playing side? What plans will they have to deal with the losses, especially given the likely effects of the recession on future income?

My personal opinion is that they will consider it a priority that they need to produce young players with a sell on value (or buy young players with sell on value)

That's not entirely inconsisent with focussing on the playing side but it wil be interesting to see the january 'ins'.

[Lucius Apuleius]

Does the fact that RP has said he is stepping aside and leaving more and more to Fife etc whilst not taking a wage not make most of the points above redundant? Anyone who thinks we have someone sitting in the wings with millions to spend is in lala land. The board has invested in players recommended by the managers we have had. The players are not very good. As said before we have spent more than anyone outside the OF and the yams over the last few years, unwisely. The first thing needed was infrastructure. We now have that. The managers we have had were nearly all the fans choice as well. They bought rubbish. I think we are moving in the right direction and do not see us being relegated at all. Please feel free to cast this up in May if I am wrong. I am not saying that the board has nothing to answer nor am I saying that there is not a possibility of relegation. There is however a middle ground between the suicidal and the happy clappers.

[lucky]

Hibs are a football club where success [in our terms] on the pitch has been sacrificed to develop the infrastructure. I'm very proud of the stadium and the fact we have got East mains. In my time of following Hibs , just over 30 years, we have won 2 league cups and been relegated twice. If we compare ourselves to our rivals , hearts have a 3 sided stadium and a death trap old stand, rent a training ground and have won 2 Scottish cups and been relegated once for two seasons. They now find find themselves on the brink of administration unable to pay their players. Whilst they have finished higher in league and beat consistently they as a club are now light years behind Hibs. If we can turn this season around I do believe that we will grow as a club. Hibs have been mis-managed as a team. Successive managers have been unable to find and motivate players. Hibs budget is the 4th biggest in the SPL. So I don't accept that RP and STF stewardship of the club has been poor. I think that Hibs will grow to become the best of the rest more regularly. We will never be a third force as the old firm have 6 times turnover as such the the SPL will always be a two horse race which occasionly will get challenged but never toppled just as is taking place in every other league

[IWasThere2016]

Davy - the growth of the business should have happened before spending cash/incurring more debt with the East Stand. Now - without a miracle on the park to bring thousands back - and toot sweet or a ton of new investment - I just see ever decreasing circles personally.

[lucky]

Davy - the growth of the business should have happened before spending cash/incurring more debt with the East Stand. Now - without a miracle on the park to bring thousands back - and toot sweet or a ton of new investment - I just see ever decreasing circles personally.
Scottish football has to redefine itsself. Fans are not going to pay £22--£28 for the football that on show. We can't compete with big European countries tv deals. If the price is right then fans will come. £10 max for any game. Yes it will effect players that come to the SPL but reality is that standard that's here is awful. Our league needs to realise that we are now a back water in football terms and adjust accordingly.
We should consider summer football and having regular Saturday 3pm kick offs. It's too easy for us fans to watch EPL on tv or attend a couple games a season. This shown with Man U v City debates on here. Most SPL fans now have a favourite or support and English team as well as their own team.

[Davy Mac]

Davy - the growth of the business should have happened before spending cash/incurring more debt with the East Stand. Now - without a miracle on the park to bring thousands back - and toot sweet or a ton of new investment - I just see ever decreasing circles personally.

Maybe, but I thinking timing was a wee bit against us with regards to the stand but I think we all agree it will be worth it in the long term - even if it makes our sell on value as a club more attractive.

Also, I still believe our crowds (including me) are struggling either finacially or suffering from boredum/fatigue/nausea/depression/anxiety etc but with the club saying nothing (as usual), a helluva lot us feel anxious about the future and the club seem to bumble along with new appointments hoping it will be swepped under the carpet.

I think your comment about ever decreasing circles is probably true within a league that's dreadfully dull and predictable and I believe this also has to change and quick.

Finally, I took my laddies along on saturday due to the entry price, terrific value and their was a good Hibs crowd in attendance and although their long suffering Dad (me) find it depressing they can't wait for the next game even after a 3-1 defeat, jeez to be young and naive again:greengrin

C'mon Hibs get the laddies in for a fiver and you'll get me back! after all there's plenty room - sadly.

[Peevemor]

Scottish football has to redefine itsself. Fans are not going to pay £22--£28 for the football that on show. We can't compete with big European countries tv deals. If the price is right then fans will come. £10 max for any game. Yes it will effect players that come to the SPL but reality is that standard that's here is awful. Our league needs to realise that we are now a back water in football terms and adjust accordingly.
We should consider summer football and having regular Saturday 3pm kick offs. It's too easy for us fans to watch EPL on tv or attend a couple games a season. This shown with Man U v City debates on here. Most SPL fans now have a favourite or support and English team as well as their own team.

Something definitely has to be done. I think that your figure of £10 max. per match could be increased a bit, but knocking on £30 is definitely too much.

It could well be that summer football is the way forward. Would the tv companies pay more (ie. would viewing figures be higher) if the Scottish and English seasons weren't running at the same time? :dunno: I think it's possible.

[Kaiser1962]

Davy - the growth of the business should have happened before spending cash/incurring more debt with the East Stand. Now - without a miracle on the park to bring thousands back - and toot sweet or a ton of new investment - I just see ever decreasing circles personally.


You are right and wrong TQM :greengrin

No one is growing a business in the SPL as the market/environment is not conducive to this. Every club, bar Hibs, has run at a loss over the last 10 seasons which would perhaps go some way to explaining STF's robust defence of Petrie. Income has increased, if you use this as a measure, but also the debt has risen to unmanagable levels. Attendances have fallen at six out of the eight clubs who have been ever present over the last ten years and the only two clubs who post higher overall attances in season 2011 than they did in 2001 are the Edinburgh clubs. Although I would expect that Hibs overall attendance at the end of this season to have fallen below that level. The biggest gain over that period, in terms on attendances, is Hearts. You then ask at what cost has this been achieved?

The spending that took place on the infrastrucure was necessary, perhaps not at this moment, but would have cropped up again soon enough. As I have already said there were question marks over the renewal of the planning for the East. We may have been too cautious but who can tell? Perhaps everything would have been ok with it and we might even have got the council to build it :wink: had it been left. East Mains is larger, far larger, than was ever intended but, unlike a player, it wont go wrong and was badly needed although you have to ask what they do with it though.

You see ever decreasing cirlcles and you are not alone in that. The name of the game in the present climate, IMHO, is about survival and I am confident, given the club set up, that we will still be here, and at ER, for the forseeable future.

[MrSmith]

Something definitely has to be done. I think that your figure of £10 max. per match could be increased a bit, but knocking on £30 is definitely too much.

It could well be that summer football is the way forward. Would the tv companies pay more (ie. would viewing figures be higher) if the Scottish and English seasons weren't running at the same time? :dunno: I think it's possible.

Correct! It is far too expensive for a family to attend Easter Road. I have three boys, each of whom like the Hibees but due to the cost involved £75 + treats = £110 per home game is just not on!

We, as a family, attend Edinburgh Rugby matches because it costs us, using a family ticket + 1 £30. Its a huge saving. Afterwards we can all go out for a meal and still have change for beers on the road home!!

[IWasThere2016]

Finally, I took my laddies along on saturday due to the entry price, terrific value and their was a good Hibs crowd in attendance and although their long suffering Dad (me) find it depressing they can't wait for the next game even after a 3-1 defeat, jeez to be young and naive again:greengrin

C'mon Hibs get the laddies in for a fiver and you'll get me back! after all there's plenty room - sadly.

The £5/£10 definitely helped on Saturday, and I agree about tickets pricing for the kids must be reviewed/reduced. This should have been undertaken years ago IMHO.

[Kaiser1962]

Correct! It is far too expensive for a family to attend Easter Road. I have three boys, each of whom like the Hibees but due to the cost involved £75 + treats = £110 per home game is just not on!

We, as a family, attend Edinburgh Rugby matches because it costs us, using a family ticket + 1 £30. Its a huge saving. Afterwards we can all go out for a meal and still have change for beers on the road home!!


Edinburgh Rugby is run by the SRU. All players and coaches are in the employ of the SRU.

You are correct though in that it is a good day out if somebody is looking for something to do when we move to summer football. No prima donnas anywhere to be seen :greengrin

[matty_f]

A well written and well argued post but this section made me think a bit..

With a loss having been made last year and a larger one coming for this financial year, will Farmer and Petrie see the priority as the playing side? What plans will they have to deal with the losses, especially given the likely effects of the recession on future income?

My personal opinion is that they will consider it a priority that they need to produce young players with a sell on value (or buy young players with sell on value)

That's not entirely inconsisent with focussing on the playing side but it wil be interesting to see the january 'ins'.

I personally think the board know exactly how big an impact a lack of success on the park has on the financials of the club, and in the short term they will do what they can to get a winning team on the park. While I agree that there will be a plan to bring through and sell on young players, as there is at every Scottish club, my belief is that first and foremost they will want winning football back at Easter Road because that provides a far more sustainable increase in income than a windfall from selling players.


Something definitely has to be done. I think that your figure of £10 max. per match could be increased a bit, but knocking on £30 is definitely too much.

It could well be that summer football is the way forward. Would the tv companies pay more (ie. would viewing figures be higher) if the Scottish and English seasons weren't running at the same time? :dunno: I think it's possible.


That's a very good point, Peeve. Scottish football could quite conceivably fill the summer football vacuum in Sky's schedules. It's definitely another reason to consider it.

[Peevemor]

I personally think the board know exactly how big an impact a lack of success on the park has on the financials of the club, and in the short term they will do what they can to get a winning team on the park. While I agree that there will be a plan to bring through and sell on young players, as there is at every Scottish club, my belief is that first and foremost they will want winning football back at Easter Road because that provides a far more sustainable increase in income than a windfall from selling players.




That's a very good point, Peeve. Scottish football could quite conceivably fill the summer football vacuum in Sky's schedules. It's definitely another reason to consider it.

There's not just Sky, but also the secondary deals (probably handled by Sky or whoever) with the likes of Canal+ in France, Eurosport (different in each country), etc., although obviously the SPL/SFA are well aware of this stuff.

[JimBHibees]

Complete and utter bollocks, IMHO.

Couple of points from me, probably ones that I have made before but, hey, there's not a new argument on this thread so I might as well muck in.:greengrin

Looking objectively at the football club, it would be hard to argue that Petrie has not been good for the club. IMHO, the right decisions have been made for the long term benefit of the club, though it has to be said that the short term has not been good enough, certainly the post 2007 decline (though that decline has seen us finish fourth, enter Europe, and have top 6 finishes in all bar the last season and this season - barring an unlikely turnaround in fortunes from now on, so it's not as tragic as it could be).

The board have done a terrific job in getting the club into a position where it should be competitive, including the spend on the squad. So even taking infrastructure spends out of the equation, we have spent at least as much as most of the other clubs in the SPL, and in most cases we've spent more than them on the first team.

The board have made some bad decisions, managerial appointments haven't worked out and the situation with Calderwood was a shambles - that said, they clearly believed they had someone worth hanging onto and were prepared to go against the grain and keep a hold of him. It was a bad decision, but it wasn't the easy option and I doubt there's a chairman in British football who hasn't made a few bad managerial appointments in their time, especially those chairmen/chief execs that have been at a club as long as Petrie has.

IMHO, the board did exactly the right things in theory and do deserve credit for getting the club to a point where the ambition can be realised.

Are they the right people to take advantage of that position? Well, that remains to be seen. The job at Hibernian is different now. The priorities are different. The sole focus is on sporting success now, whereas before the other infrastructure projects were important long term. There are no more infrastructure projects to complete AFAIK.

So that leaves the board to work out how to make it work on the park. They've seen that their existing structure wasn't working and have recently changed this, with details published on the official site as well as being mention at the AGM, IIRC. IMHO, whenever there is a significant change in operations it can take time for results to be seen, and it's far too soon to say whether or not the changes will ultimately be successful.

It's easy to get caught up in the here and now, after all I'm sure I'm not alone in wanting a winning team on the park now. We are spending enough as fans and as a club to justifiably expect that the club perform better while these changes improve things in the background.

However, this latest episode of calls for the board come on the back of another defeat. A defeat that has come about after the board have taken action to right the wrongs of the last manager by bringing in Pat Fenlon. They've already shown a willingness to back him by signing Doyle, and we're told that there is budget for further strengthening in January.

I'm not sure what else we're expecting the board to do at the moment. They have made mistakes, they haven't got the desired results but then there's not a specific formula to making it work in football, certainly not at a club the size of Hibernian. We are underperforming and that has been recognised by the board who have taken action to rectify it.

Very accurate assessment when guys like Fat Jimmy Jeffries are saying that Hibs are the structure and financial model that other clubs should copy then you know they must be doing right. It isnt perfect as the league table shows however the last thing that the club needs right now is the endless call for Petrie/Farmer etc to go.

There does seem to be an element of the Hibs support who absolutely love it when we lose just so they can regurgitate the same boring negative bull over and over again.

We have a new manager and he needs support the last thing he needs is an already negative support being more so expecially in key home games coming up. I think there have been positives in the last few games and to me they show that Fenlon knows what he is doing and will turn us around however he needs a break as he hasnt had it in the games he has managed.

[DarlingtonHibee]

Darlington, don't mean to have a go at you personally, but you are being very obtuse.

Can you tell me what players we should sign to get us out of this mess? Who should we sign at RB, and what financial package?

I ask as, in general, fans aren't privy to the finer details we'd need to provide a list of genuine realistic replacements. That doesn't mean we can't see that certain players (if not the whole lot) aren't good enough to do the job we need of them.

As with a new owner/director, we're not privy to details of who has the portfolio to step in and do a better job. That doesn't mean it's not possible to be of the opinion Petrie (etc) performance isn't good enough/where a portion of the blame lies.

Sorry for the delay, was logged off when this was posted.

The decision for signing player's is down to the relationship between the manager and the board, of course there are lots of other factor's - ie agents, wages etc..

In my experience recruitment is a hit or miss expereience- industry average is one in three work out well.

Re the new owners / RP - I think we are in the safest pair of hands in UK football - people that care about the long term viabilty of our great club.

If you want a rollercoaster - then look over the road....

Finally, I am as much pi**ed off with where we are as a team, I grew up with Pat et al - that was my first Hibs team, first big game against Leeds.

We need at this difficult time to be realistic, there is little point coming on here asking for RP to be sacked - it is not going to happen.

Unless, of course STF packs it in - I'd like to see the posts on here if he did - lot of humble pie from certain posters, who have no other options for the club moving forward.

As always only my personal opinion - bloody panto tonight with the family :greengrin

[IWasThere2016]

Sorry for the delay, was logged off when this was posted.

You missed me oot!! :cool2:

[silverhibee]

I don't work for Hibs but I am involved in youth football in West Lothian.

What I do know is that scouting at my age group is shocking.

We have scouts from all over watching us and it saddens me to say we are probably one of the worst.

We currently have/or have had boys at east mains and the feedback I get from parents of our boys is frightening.

Our club is well established and have a procedure in place whereby any pro club interested in our boys at any level have to answer a simple questionnaire which asks questions such as:

training nights
aims for the boy
length of trial
names and contact details
etc

basic info which allows the parents and club to know what's happening and to avoid any confusion or disapointment for the boys.

Hearts, Falkirk, Celtic, Dundee Utd all adhere to this and are up front. Which allows a clear and amicable line of cooperation.

The Hibs scout who attends is as dodgy as they come and avoids answering any questions.

When our boys arrive at Hibs, the coaches do not communicate well with parents. We have boys at Hibs who don't even know if they've to come back the next week. Feedback also suggests that coaching isn't any better than what we coach our own boys.

When I speak to parents I always sell Hibs as a great club for looking after young players (for selfish reasons obviously) but the sad reality is that Hearts and particularly Falkirk, are doing a far better job than we are.


One of the biggest mistakes the board have made is allowing both Donald and John Park to leave the club, DP should have been given a ten year contract at Hibs to look after youth development, a great coach with the young lads and went out his way to make everyone feel welcome to Hibs.

[silverhibee]

In what way?
By securing our future for the next 20 years?
For ensuring we have fantastic training facilities?
For building us the best stadium in Scotland outside Glasgow?

He is not the manager, he is the chairman. He runs the business and from what I have seen he is about the most capable businessman in the SPL. The people you should be ranting at in my opinion are the players for persistently under performing. Our much loved GOC is the best example we have in recent times of a player completely and utterly under performing.

OK, Rod put the managers in place that signed these players - but how many of the last 8 managers were not the majority of fans 1st choice - not many is the answer to that.

Another question... who is going to "remove" him? He owns a 10% share in the club - there is not a person in the world can take that off him. If Rod goes then it will be on his terms, however I feel safe with Rod at the helm and whatever happens on the park is not down to him - it's down to the manager of the football team and the players.

No point in going on about needing to invest more because outside the ugly sisters from the weedge and our bin raking neighbours from across the city we have spent more than anyone else on wages for the past 2 years.
Aside from all this, I am still confident that we will turn it round this season and get ourselves out of the relegation battle that we are presently in.

Glory Glory


1. But we have the worst team in the SPL, hope i am not watching that for the next 20 years and i am not to bothered about how good our stadium is or that we have one of the best training centre's in the country, i want to see a good team on the park competing for third in the league good cup runs and European football, this is also the boards ambitions to, they are failing badly on that side, joint bottom of the table proves that.

2. Who brought GOC to the club. :wink:

3. Fans are fickle at times. :greengrin

4. And who picks the managers, it aint the fans.

5. Yep, Throwing money away on players like Hart DeGraff Jimmy 3 1/2 year contract Scott Thornhill Agogo, i could go on but you get my drift, and i wish i had your confidence about not being relagated.

[silverhibee]

What money is it you're talking about in your first sentence?
So remind me again which other SPL clubs have built a new ground and training centre in the last 5 years?
Don't think it was either Petrie or Farmer who missed the two sitters against Rangers.These failings on the playing side presumably do not include bringing in mega bucks for players determined to leave.


Some were even been forced to leave. :wink:

[silverhibee]

I would suspect that anybody without sufficient means would need the stadium and the land to guarantee their borrowings. If they don't have said sufficient means why would we consider them.

Still think it's a wind up though.


Have you no seen the guys yacht docked in Leith. :greengrin

[DarlingtonHibee]

You missed me oot!! :cool2:

Oops! Sorry TQM :greengrin

[silverhibee]

If it wasnt for Tom Farmer we would have been down the swanny years ago.



Maybe, but maybe not.

[Golden Bear]

Maybe, but maybe not.

:confused:

I don't recollect that there were any other knights in shining armour around at the time.

Sir Tom saved us from the clutches of Mercer - no doubt about it.

[silverhibee]

Yip. They have that choice as they have not taken on any responsibility.

On the other hand when things go badly it costs the owner £1m+ yet the title of the thread is asking him to put in even more or leave. :confused:


And that £1m was probaly spent on paying of managers and signing new one's ie Calderwood, how much did that cost the club.

And its RP that picks them then fire's them, he is to blame for the loss of £1m.

[greenlex]

And that £1m was probaly spent on paying of managers and signing new one's ie Calderwood, how much did that cost the club.

And its RP that picks them then fire's them, he is to blame for the loss of £1m.

Aye just like he got lucky with Mowbray. I wonder how much that made the club?

[silverhibee]

Does the fact that RP has said he is stepping aside and leaving more and more to Fife etc whilst not taking a wage not make most of the points above redundant? Anyone who thinks we have someone sitting in the wings with millions to spend is in lala land. The board has invested in players recommended by the managers we have had. The players are not very good. As said before we have spent more than anyone outside the OF and the yams over the last few years, unwisely. The first thing needed was infrastructure. We now have that. The managers we have had were nearly all the fans choice as well. They bought rubbish. I think we are moving in the right direction and do not see us being relegated at all. Please feel free to cast this up in May if I am wrong. I am not saying that the board has nothing to answer nor am I saying that there is not a possibility of relegation. There is however a middle ground between the suicidal and the happy clappers.


But yet there he was when we brought in Pat Fenlon, parading PF to the press and once again telling us all how good a man PF will be for the club, why was Fyfe Scott not doing that since we are led to believe it was there choice to bring PF to the club.

[Kaiser1962]

One of the biggest mistakes the board have made is allowing both Donald and John Park to leave the club, DP should have been given a ten year contract at Hibs to look after youth development, a great coach with the young lads and went out his way to make everyone feel welcome to Hibs.

I think in JP's case he wanted to go. He went for that old adage of more money, in fact more everthing. His does not even work with the youngsters at Celtic (Chris McCart is in charge there) and his role is "Football Develeopment Manager".

DP left for personal reasons although it is good to see him now working with the SFA.

[MSK]

But yet there he was when we brought in Pat Fenlon, parading PF to the press and once again telling us all how good a man PF will be for the club, why was Fyfe Scott not doing that since we are led to believe it was there choice to bring PF to the club.Was he appointed by Rod Lyndsay ..?

[Peevemor]

I think in JP's case he wanted to go. He went for that old age of more money, in fact more everthing. His does not even work with the youngsters at Celtic (Chris McCart is in charge there) and his role is "Football Develeopment Manager".

DP left for personal reasons although it is good to see him now working with the SFA.

I think it suited Donald Park to quit the managerial merry-go-round (even as an assistant/coach) and take the permanent post at the SFA.

[Kaiser1962]

Maybe, but maybe not.


The only other way our survival would have been possible was to relaunch as FC Hibernian or some such thing. The club, as it was and currently is, would have been taken over by Hearts in 1991 and the present incarnation of Hibernian FC playing at ER would have gone out of existence. No maybe's about it.

There was no one else available who had the financial clout to take on Mercer/Rowland at that time.

[Kaiser1962]

I think it suited Donald Park to quit the managerial merry-go-round (even as an assistant/coach) and take the permanent post at the SFA.

Donald Park left Hibs for family reasons.

[matty_f]

But yet there he was when we brought in Pat Fenlon, parading PF to the press and once again telling us all how good a man PF will be for the club, why was Fyfe Scott not doing that since we are led to believe it was there choice to bring PF to the club.


Did it/does it really matter who presented them to the media? The press turned up to see the new manager, I can't imagine too many folk cared who introduced him. The board are not the star attraction at the club.

[Saorsa]

Did it/does it really matter who presented them to the media? The press turned up to see the new manager, I can't imagine too many folk cared who introduced him. The board are not the star attraction at the club.What is? Is it the shiny new stands? the training center? certainly isnae the fitba.

[Lucius Apuleius]

But yet there he was when we brought in Pat Fenlon, parading PF to the press and once again telling us all how good a man PF will be for the club, why was Fyfe Scott not doing that since we are led to believe it was there choice to bring PF to the club.

Rhetorical question I guess Silver? I do not have any insiders at ER to tell me this sort of thing.


Did it/does it really matter who presented them to the media? The press turned up to see the new manager, I can't imagine too many folk cared who introduced him. The board are not the star attraction at the club.

It doesn't at all, but it will still be Petrie's fault if PF goes tits up.





Now don't get me wrong, I have said before, I know everything is not brilliant, in fact it is pretty crap, however it never ceases to amaze me the amount of vitriol we can find on a message board for various people, whether they be players, managers or board members. I find it disgusting personally and I am absolutely certain that very few if any of the people posting it would have the balls to say to their faces what they say on here. It is absolutley pathetic at times. I therefore support the under dog.:wink:

[matty_f]

What is? Is it the shiny new stands? the training center? certainly isnae the fitba.


Well, to answer you literally - when the manager was being unveiled to the press it was the manager that was the star attraction. Usually, one would expect it to be the first team though. I doubt anyone would suggest that it's been living up to that billing recently.


FWIW, I've never thought any of the new stands looked that shiny.:greengrin

[Saorsa]

FWIW, I've never thought any of the new stands looked that shiny.:greengrinThey were shinier than the auld ones :greengrin

[IWasThere2016]

Oops! Sorry TQM :greengrin

Its ok - I wasnae expecting an answer as I thought ma question would be too tricky for ye :wink: :greengrin

[matty_f]

They were shinier than the auld ones :greengrin

Aye, that's true!!:greengrin

[DarlingtonHibee]

Its ok - I wasnae expecting an answer as I thought ma question would be too tricky for ye :wink: :greengrin

Still waiting for you answer mine !! - lets call it a draw:greengrin

[IWasThere2016]

Still waiting for you answer mine !! - lets call it a draw:greengrin

Where???

[silverhibee]

I think in JP's case he wanted to go. He went for that old adage of more money, in fact more everthing. His does not even work with the youngsters at Celtic (Chris McCart is in charge there) and his role is "Football Develeopment Manager".

DP left for personal reasons although it is good to see him now working with the SFA.


But sadly missed at Hibs.

[silverhibee]

Was he appointed by Rod Lyndsay ..?


Nope, it was Hyland Petrie.

[silverhibee]

Did it/does it really matter who presented them to the media? The press turned up to see the new manager, I can't imagine too many folk cared who introduced him. The board are not the star attraction at the club.

After all the noise that was made about Rod taking a back seat and it would be left down to Scott Lyndsay Fyfe Hyland to find the new manager for HFC, then it would only be fair that they two would parade there new man to the press, but no Rod had to be there taking all the plaudits, but if it goes pear shape with PF then you no who will get the blame and it wont be Rod.

[Seveno]

Very accurate assessment when guys like Fat Jimmy Jeffries are saying that Hibs are the structure and financial model that other clubs should copy then you know they must be doing right. It isnt perfect as the league table shows however the last thing that the club needs right now is the endless call for Petrie/Farmer etc to go.

There does seem to be an element of the Hibs support who absolutely love it when we lose just so they can regurgitate the same boring negative bull over and over again.

We have a new manager and he needs support the last thing he needs is an already negative support being more so expecially in key home games coming up. I think there have been positives in the last few games and to me they show that Fenlon knows what he is doing and will turn us around however he needs a break as he hasnt had it in the games he has managed.


I think that you guys have summed things up pretty well. I get fed up with the constant calls for 'investment'. That terms means the investment of capital with the intention of making a return of profit. Well we all know that you cannot make a profit from football so we'd have to get real and continue to live within our means.

On paper, the board make good decisions regarding the appointment of recent managers and I don't recall much opposition on here. I'm the eternal optimist and think that Fenlon is the man for the job. We need to give the man some time and the team our support. Let's start tomorrow night.

[IWasThere2016]

After all the noise that was made about Rod taking a back seat and it would be left down to Scott Lyndsay Fyfe Hyland to find the new manager for HFC, then it would only be fair that they two would parade there new man to the press, but no Rod had to be there taking all the plaudits, but if it goes pear shape with PF then you no who will get the blame and it wont be Rod.

Depends if you believed that RP has/had a lesser role :wink:

He also said something about decent finances/cash and no one getting a rise when the highest paid went from £75k to £88k :greengrin

[MrSmith]

But sadly missed at Hibs.


Yes! Couldn't agree more.

[Saorsa]

Depends if you believed that RP has/had a lesser role :wink:

He also said something about decent finances/cash and no one getting a rise when the highest paid went from £75k to £88k :greengrinwhatever do you mean? :hmmm:

[Haymaker]

Bizarre :confused:

Not really, a bit of investment and they will be back in Ligue1, which is one of the Top 5 leagues of Europe. It also has an excellent attractive area to live in for footballers (which is a large reason why players wont move) and they have a history of being a decent club. Also, Monaco have a modern stadium and state of the art facilities.

While we may have the infastructure, we dont have any other attractions for top players. Even if we played in the CL and won the league every year, we would always be just a stepping stone for most as the SPL and Scotland is not attractive to players. Because of this, large investors (foreign or domestic) would not buy a club here.

[Kaiser1962]

But sadly missed at Hibs.


No arguments here. A gentleman.

[The Falcon]

Not really, a bit of investment and they will be back in Ligue1, which is one of the Top 5 leagues of Europe. It also has an excellent attractive area to live in for footballers (which is a large reason why players wont move) and they have a history of being a decent club. Also, Monaco have a modern stadium and state of the art facilities.

While we may have the infastructure, we dont have any other attractions for top players. Even if we played in the CL and won the league every year, we would always be just a stepping stone for most as the SPL and Scotland is not attractive to players. Because of this, large investors (foreign or domestic) would not buy a club here.


Your second paragraph underlines the reasons why your first, and the post I was referring, is indeed bizarre.

I do not think comparisons can be made between the demographics of Monte Carlo and Leith. I also do not think "investment" is the right word. Throwing money away would be a better description but if the guy is prepared to do that for them then I wish them well. It would be nice to think we could find the same here but we are not comparing like for like. Are we? The suggestion in the post that if you tried hard enough it could be done.

[snooky]

No arguments here. A gentleman.

.... and played in the 0-7 game, IIRC :coffee: