Kim Jong-il

[Haymaker]

Has died. Apparently of a heart attack.

[Gatecrasher]

I'm sure the team America jokes will arrive shortly.

[Haymaker]

I'm sure the team America jokes will arrive shortly.

Already been a fair amount on my facebook feed!

[Gatecrasher]

Already been a fair amount on my facebook feed!
Feel free to pm me any good ones :wink:

[DaveF]

Apparently he holds the record score of -38 for a round of golf, with a mere 11 holes in one. Not sure if they were all in the same round though?

His -38 was witnessed by his 18 bodyguards, but those pesky Guiness people refused to acknowledge it officially.

[Sodje_18]

Can't believe anything that comes out of North Korea to be honest. I'll believe it when I see a South Park episode about it :wink:

[heretoday]

A country of dreadful poverty and repressive government - No not Britain!!!

It must be like living in a mental asylum except most of the folk don't know any different.

[steakbake]

Wonder how much of the grief is staged, how much of it is for show to the outside world and how much of it is for self-preservation?

That clip of the folk crying in a sort of classroom thing - what was that all about? Professional mourners who just happened to be filmed as the news was being broken.

[Betty Boop]

They have test fired a short range missile off the East Coast.

[poolman]

:tee hee:


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XsvRDrweYKQ&feature=related

[Betty Boop]

Farewell sweet prince.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jdug6yHJB40&feature=related

[Hibrandenburg]

Concerns are being voiced about his successor Menta Lee-il.

[frazeHFC]

Watched this about 10 times. I am not trying to be rude or nasty but some of them look like they are acting to fit in with the real criers.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-asia-16239693

[Sir David Gray]

Watched this about 10 times. I am not trying to be rude or nasty but some of them look like they are acting to fit in with the real criers.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-asia-16239693

There's no way that the crying that I have seen is genuine. These are people who have not known anything else except for Kim Jong-Il and his father before him, ruling the country for over 60 years. They have absolutely no idea about what happens outside of North Korea and can only go on the lies, misinformation and propaganda that is fed to them by the government.

There is a fear there, as there is in all countries who are living under a brutal dictatorship, and in all likelihood, they have been ordered to stage this show of emotion, whilst the cameras are there, to show the outside world how loved and respected the "Dear Leader" was.

The authorities have probably warned them to do this or face the consequences.

As for the future of North Korea. I don't really expect to see any real changes taking place in the country. His son, Kim Jong-un, has been the heir apparent for some time and his father has been grooming him for the job for many years. There has already been a test fire of a nuclear missile off the coast of the country earlier today and I would think that this will be a very nervous time if you currently stay in South Korea.

If Kim Jong-un does take over, at the age of 28, that could mean that North Korea are facing the status quo for the next 50 years at least.

[Beefster]

Kim Jong-il was a ****bag of the highest order who thought nothing of starving millions of his own people. I hope that there is a purgatory just for ***** like him.

Don't click on the link if you are easily distressed.

http://order-order.com/2011/12/19/kim-gone-evil/

[Pretty Boy]

Out of interest has anyone seen new leader Kim Jong-Un and Michael McIntyre in the same room at any point?

[Sylar]

There's no way that the crying that I have seen is genuine. These are people who have not known anything else except for Kim Jong-Il and his father before him, ruling the country for over 60 years. They have absolutely no idea about what happens outside of North Korea and can only go on the lies, misinformation and propaganda that is fed to them by the government.

There is a fear there, as there is in all countries who are living under a brutal dictatorship, and in all likelihood, they have been ordered to stage this show of emotion, whilst the cameras are there, to show the outside world how loved and respected the "Dear Leader" was.

The authorities have probably warned them to do this or face the consequences.

As for the future of North Korea. I don't really expect to see any real changes taking place in the country. His son, Kim Jong-un, has been the heir apparent for some time and his father has been grooming him for the job for many years. There has already been a test fire of a nuclear missile off the coast of the country earlier today and I would think that this will be a very nervous time if you currently stay in South Korea.

If Kim Jong-un does take over, at the age of 28, that could mean that North Korea are facing the status quo for the next 50 years at least.

Familiar with Stockholm Syndrome? It could very much be, as you point out, not knowing anything else and not knowing how things work outwith North Korea - they've grown up with this family at the helm and may well have developed some mildly perverted support/desire of him, whilst he's taken advantage and painted himself as a demi-God.

I'm pretty sure there will be a large portion of the North Korean public who are delighted that he's dead, but I'm pretty sure some of the tears and mourning will indeed be genuine for both the reason above, and fear of how much worse a new dictator could potentially make things over the duration of his reign.

Bin Laden, Gaddafi and now Kim Jong-Il - If Ahmadinejad can pop his clogs before December 31st, it's been one hell of a good year for threat removal :greengrin

[Gatecrasher]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5TEvacFETvM:greengrin

[SRHibs]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pSWN6Qj98Iw

Hilarious.

EDIT: Oops, it's already been posted.

[SRHibs]

http://kimjongillookingatthings.tumblr.com/

[frazeHFC]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pSWN6Qj98Iw

Hilarious.

EDIT: Oops, it's already been posted.


:hilarious It's like penguins at the zoo, lmao. :faf:

[steakbake]

Bizarre to see these pathetic, wretched mourners. As I say, it must be driven by fear. A massive collective fear. Dont cry enough, someone will report you so they can save their own skins. If you don't look too bothered, someone will notice and benefit from reporting you for unrevolutionary activities. The state has its spies everywhere in NK. Hope these poor people wake up soon.

[Hibrandenburg]

Bizarre to see these pathetic, wretched mourners. As I say, it must be driven by fear. A massive collective fear. Dont cry enough, someone will report you so they can save their own skins. If you don't look too bothered, someone will notice and benefit from reporting you for unrevolutionary activities. The state has its spies everywhere in NK. Hope these poor people wake up soon.

These pathetic mourners are probably **** scared that if they don't show enough grief then they will suffer the consequences. Since their childhood they've been conditioned to absolute obedience. The people of North Korea are as isolated from the outside world as any undiscovered Amazonian tribes and are the victims here. Unfortunately with the death of Kim Jong-il things will not get better for them.

[steakbake]

These pathetic mourners are probably **** scared that if they don't show enough grief then they will suffer the consequences. Since their childhood they've been conditioned to absolute obedience. The people of North Korea are as isolated from the outside world as any undiscovered Amazonian tribes and are the victims here. Unfortunately with the death of Kim Jong-il things will not get better for them.

I agree with you. It's like a much more organized and more terrifying version of our Diana outpouring.

[Sir David Gray]

Familiar with Stockholm Syndrome? It could very much be, as you point out, not knowing anything else and not knowing how things work outwith North Korea - they've grown up with this family at the helm and may well have developed some mildly perverted support/desire of him, whilst he's taken advantage and painted himself as a demi-God.

I'm pretty sure there will be a large portion of the North Korean public who are delighted that he's dead, but I'm pretty sure some of the tears and mourning will indeed be genuine for both the reason above, and fear of how much worse a new dictator could potentially make things over the duration of his reign.

Bin Laden, Gaddafi and now Kim Jong-Il - If Ahmadinejad can pop his clogs before December 31st, it's been one hell of a good year for threat removal :greengrin

I take your point regarding misplaced support, it is possible.

However, for a country that;

Has a large proportion of the population starving to death.
Is politically isolated from almost every single nation on the planet.
Who sends anyone who dares to question or condemn the government to concentration camps.
Has high rates of illnesses such as tuberculosis, malaria and Hepatitis B.

His son would really need to go some in order to make living conditions for the ordinary North Korean people any worse than they already are.

[cabbageandribs1875]

imagine what the yamboids will be like when 'dear leader' vlad pops his clogs

[GlesgaeHibby]

I take your point regarding misplaced support, it is possible.

However, for a country that;

Has a large proportion of the population starving to death.
Is politically isolated from almost every single nation on the planet.
Who sends anyone who dares to question or condemn the government to concentration camps.
Has high rates of illnesses such as tuberculosis, malaria and Hepatitis B.

His son would really need to go some in order to make living conditions for the ordinary North Korean people any worse than they already are.

But when you are isolated from the outside world, how do you know that's not normal? They are fed propaganda every day from a young age. They believe they are a rich country, that they have a great quality of life and living standards because they are fed that nonsense constantly in state controlled schools, tv, newspapers etc etc. Outside looking in, it's easy to take your stance but when that's all they've ever known, they could really be devastated by his death.

[.Sean.]

They must 'know better' though, what about North Korean's who depart the country then return, don't they go back home with stories from ongoings elsewhere? I don't buy into this theory that millions and millions of them don't know any better. It's awful for them, in this day and age living petrified as if they speak out against the dictatorship, they risk execution. It's terrible but it doesn't look like it will be changing anytime soon with his son being heir.

[Sylar]

They must 'know better' though, what about North Korean's who depart the country then return, don't they go back home with stories from ongoings elsewhere? I don't buy into this theory that millions and millions of them don't know any better. It's awful for them, in this day and age living petrified as if they speak out against the dictatorship, they risk execution. It's terrible but it doesn't look like it will be changing anytime soon with his son being heir.

Therein is part of the problem though - the North Koreans are restricted in terms of their freedom of movement, with only the political figures or wealthiest "loyal" citizens having access to vehicles, fuel and granted legal permission to leave the country. The refugees who flee the country mostly end up in either China (a close North Korean ally, who reportedly extradite any such persons back to Korea, where they are then imprisoned in a concentration camp) or South Korea, where the common practice is to either treat them as a spy and imprison or "return" them.

The airports and ports are military controlled and the borders are strictly patrolled, meaning the chance for escape is indeed remote, with only special status allowing free passage.

Those who manage to both get out and back AND tell stories of the outside world are going to be extremely rare scenarios and any hint of dissent or glorification of life outwith Korea probably carries with it an imprisonment/torture/execution finale.

[Hainan Hibs]

Some interesting info here about the grief shown http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/magazine-16262027 .

It will be interesting to see what happens next. You would imagine there will be someone high up in the world's 5th largest standing army who won't be willing to let power go to Kim Jong-Il's inexperienced son (who looks about 12) and will fancy a pop at taking power.

From one point of view you could see why their neighbours will want more of the same with a smooth transition. China won't want a mass influx of refugees from a sudden collapse, and I can't imagine the South Korean government would like the cost of unification with the state the North is in right now.

The main hope will be that being educated in Switzerland the son of Kim Jong-Il may be more open to negotiation with the west and economic reform.

[Andy74]

I agree with you. It's like a much more organized and more terrifying version of our Diana outpouring.

I was gonna say that. No real difference to the mock grief that millions of peoiple in the UK had at the time of Diana's death. And we are meant to have a bit more freedom of thought and expression..

[Hibrandenburg]

I was gonna say that. No real difference to the mock grief that millions of peoiple in the UK had at the time of Diana's death. And we are meant to have a bit more freedom of thought and expression..

What, people were crying after Diana died because they were scared not too?

[--------]

What, people were crying after Diana died because they were scared not too?


I suspect that the grief displayed among North Koreans for KJL is as genuine as that displayed by the crowds crying their eyes out for PD - culturally-conditioned, emotionally self-indulgent, and in part at least hysteria generated by the media-inspired image of her as some sort of 'angel' persecuted by the Windsors.

There will be a degree of fear behind some of the Korean demonstrations, but sadly most North Koreans will have accepted their media's portrayal of KJL as the benevolent leader of the country and be genuinely upset.

Of course, KJL as benevolent leader is about as real as 'Princess Di' as the blameless angel persecuted by the British establishment. Power is power, regardless of the form it happens to take in any given society. The idea that the North Koreans are in any way more gullible or more terrorised than we are is, IMO, false. I suspect that they mean it just as much as the folks lining the funeral route for the Princess of Wounded Feelings did. We're coerced by PR and the media; they're coerced by the Party Line. Not a lot of difference, IMO.

Wait till the Queen dies.

[Andy74]

I suspect that the grief displayed among North Koreans for KJL is as genuine as that displayed by the crowds crying their eyes out for PD - culturally-conditioned, emotionally self-indulgent, and in part at least hysteria generated by the media-inspired image of her as some sort of 'angel' persecuted by the Windsors.

There will be a degree of fear behind some of the Korean demonstrations, but sadly most North Koreans will have accepted their media's portrayal of KJL as the benevolent leader of the country and be genuinely upset.

Of course, KJL as benevolent leader is about as real as 'Princess Di' as the blameless angel persecuted by the British establishment. Power is power, regardless of the form it happens to take in any given society. The idea that the North Koreans are in any way more gullible or more terrorised than we are is, IMO, false. I suspect that they mean it just as much as the folks lining the funeral route for the Princess of Wounded Feelings did. We're coerced by PR and the media; they're coerced by the Party Line. Not a lot of difference, IMO.

Wait till the Queen dies.

I can't. :greengrin

[--------]

I can't. :greengrin


That makes two of you - you and Big Ears, Andy.

She certainly doesn't appear to be in any great hurry to leave ... :rolleyes: